66: Reinventing Her Career Without Giving Up Family | Women and Work

Choosing between your career and your family shouldn't have to be the only option.

After becoming a mother, Marla Fronczak stepped away from a demanding career because she didn't realize flexible work arrangements were even possible. She reinvented herself as a real estate appraiser to gain more control over her schedule, overcame gender bias in a male-dominated industry, and eventually discovered a passion for serving older adults that led her to become CEO of AgeGuide.

In this episode of Women and Work, Marla shares how finding champions, embracing career pivots, and advocating for flexible workplaces helped her build a meaningful career without losing sight of what mattered most.

In this episode, you'll learn about:
• Why she left her first career after becoming a mom
• Finding flexible work through entrepreneurship
• Facing discrimination as a woman in real estate appraisal
• The importance of mentors and career champions
• Reinventing your career at any stage of life
• Supporting working caregivers in today's workplace
• Why flexibility benefits both employers and employees
• Preparing for retirement while continuing to make an impact

What career decision ended up changing the direction of your life the most? Share your story in the comments.

Struggling to find the right child care? Get a video interview of your ideal nanny at https://www.momsub.com/child-care-options

#WomenAndWork #CareerGrowth #WorkingMoms #Leadership #CareerChange

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

I worked in in marketing and advertising when I was first out of college and those are very long days. And so I realized like when I had my children, I was like, I'm not gonna be able to be on spell. So it took a few years off, and then um I was I was kind of a little interested in real estate sales. I was an independent contractor, so it gave me the opportunity to kind of set my schedule, set my family life, and do all that. And so back, you know, there weren't many jobs that you could do that gave you that flexibility to work around your kids' schedule. But what I found was that I couldn't get men to hire me. They didn't really want a woman in their office doing this work. And I really had a champion in one of the partners that I ended up uh doing work with who really believed in me. And I think throughout my career, what I would say for many women is you have to find those champions out there because I think that is one of the ways that you kind of break down those barriers.

SPEAKER_01 1:03

Welcome to Women and Work, the show where we take an inside look at how women are overcoming our own unique challenges as we grow our careers or build a business while nurturing relationships and family. I'm Diane Mocha, founder and CEO of MomSub, the childcare app that connects you to a substitute mom. And I want you to know that work can fit your life. Each week we meet a woman who has done that. And today I'm with Marla Franzak. She is the CEO of Ageguide, a nonprofit that provides services to older members of the community. She's been working to improve the lives of seniors for more than 15 years. She started at Ageguide as a community planning manager and moved up to top leadership. Thanks for being here, Marla. Thank you. My pleasure. So we recently learned that after a remarkable career of improving the lives of older Americans, veterans, and others in underserved populations, you're gonna be retiring. And I want to take a look back and see how you overcame some of the obstacles that you must have faced in your rise to leadership, especially as a woman. What do you think was the biggest challenge you faced in your entire career, specifically because you are a woman?

SPEAKER_00 2:18

Yeah. I think that um it's interesting. In in the aging network, I don't think I felt it as much. It is really too many um of us, it is a woman-led uh in and I almost want to say due to probably salaries and other reasons that maybe it's unnurturing and just that that givingness and that willingness uh to do that. So I don't think I found as many barriers in that. But I if I look back to um when you talk about careers and how women can work and do these, when when my children were younger, um, I actually had my own business as a real estate appraiser. And I was able to do it because of the flexibility of doing it. And so back, you know, there weren't many jobs that you could do that gave you that flexibility to work around your kids' schedule. But what I found was that I couldn't get men to hire me in terms of wanting to do this work. They didn't really want a woman in their office doing this work. And I really had a champion in one of the partners that I ended up uh doing work with who really believed in me. And I think throughout my career, what I would say for many women is you have to find those champions out there because I think that is one of the ways that you kind of break down those barriers. And so if someone is maybe saying no, there's someone else that's gonna be out there that's gonna say yes. So it's the believing in yourself and saying, okay, that door didn't open, but there's another door that's gonna open for me. And oftentimes I think as women, we might have to prove ourselves a little bit harder. We might have to work a little bit harder, but we're built for it. We're multitaskers. We're by nature, um, we are the people that um when I when I look at who we hire and who we do it, you know, the people who are managing a family and managing a career and and oftentimes going back to school and doing those things, we know that they're gonna be successful in their career because we know that they can handle multiple things and they are organized and they are efficient and they're able to do that. So I think taking some of those skill sets, especially as maybe parents or in other things and trying to leverage that in terms of showing somebody, yeah, I might not have that paid experience right now, but let me show you what I what I have done and what I did. And I think that's the way it's like throughout my career, I've been able to leverage that. So after I had done uh real estate appraisals, and I want to say it was during the 08 uh market, there where kind of my business dried up and I had to kind of reinvent myself. And at that time, I was working with uh my parents and my grandparents through their aging journeys. So my father had to have his leg amputated, they could no longer stay in their house. So I was finding them a senior community. My grandmother had gone into long-term care. And what I what I learned was I really loved working with the older adult population. And so I got to know the people in the senior community where I moved my parents. And so I thought, I want to try this. I'm gonna see about, you know, maybe getting a job in marketing senior communities. Went back to school, got some uh gerontology courses, did something. And I'll tell you what I faced was some ageism. So this was back when I was in my 40s, and people did not want to hire me. Even though I like had this experience of like, I can relate to the kids who are moving their parents into these situations, I can relate to all these aspects. They kind of wanted somebody younger in these positions. And so what I found was I again found a network of people. So these were people that encouraged me to, if I didn't have paid experience, go out and volunteer. So I actually home delivered mealed. I went to the provider in King County. I would delivered meals. I ended up being on their board. And so I created experience so that when the opportunity came for me to get a job in the aging network, um, I at least had some experience in doing that. Now, the position I took was a position I never thought I would have because I really did think I was going to go into this retirement community. But I ended up working for DuPage Um County Community Services as a long-term care ombudsman. And that is an advocate for residents in long-term care and assisted living. And it helps advocate for their rights to make sure that they are getting the proper medications, that their food is good, that the nurses are taking care of them, that their needs are being met, and that their rights are being upheld. So little did I know that was going to kind of be my advocacy journey, but that was kind of me dipping my toe in there. And from there, that's when I ended up going to Ageguide. And so Ageguide was kind of the umbrella agency, as you will. Like we were the regional entity that funded the program that I was working for. And it gave me the opportunity to um kind of expand my advocacy um at a bigger level than just doing the direct service that I was doing. But the only reason I really truly believe that I was able to do that was because I found those people out there. I found my networks and that relationship building, I will say, is so important to people is if you don't know somebody in the field, find them. Find those opportunities out there. Most of the people I met with were very willing to talk to me and to encourage me on my path and to open some doors for me. And so I was very grateful that I ended up um at AgeGuide. And um I never, even when I started there, thought that I was be in those leadership positions. But again, I had people that believed in me in the organization. And so encouraged me to take management positions. And then in my 50s, I actually went back, got my master's degree in nonprofit management, uh, so that I was ready when the opportunity came. And probably have never looked back in the 10 years I've been doing it.

SPEAKER_01 9:10

How did you nurture or even develop or find those relationships? So you started as a volunteer because you thought maybe I'll want to go into this and I'm having a hard time, you know, getting any anywhere without connections. But of course, if you're kind of trying to meet people strategically in a transactional way, it doesn't often work out. But, you know, were you developing friendships? And then as you're meeting people, you know, through work, do you do social things to strengthen those connections? Do you do extra work? Do you go to events? You know, what did you do to really build that? Because some people don't know how to take that extra piece, especially nowadays. You know, there's so many things that are online. True. There's so many people that don't feel as comfortable sort of nurturing those relationships.

SPEAKER_00 9:56

How did you do that? Yeah. Yeah, no, very true. I it was a it was a different time. So more people were meeting um in person. And I think I had initially I went to a um senior resource fair. So I wanted to kind of see like who are the organizations out there. And I'd met somebody who was marketing a um, again, I wanted to kind of really go into marketing a retirement community. So I'd met somebody um there who wanted, you know, was open to having coffee with me and talk about things. And from there, there they connected me to a couple networking groups. So from those networking groups, um, I was able to again go to other events where I continued to just meet other people. Um, and the person that I actually connected with that was at Jupage County, um, they were they were looking, you know, they had a couple open positions and they were like, well, I know this isn't really what you're looking for, but you know, it might be might be a nice way to um get your foot in the door and get some experience. And so probably took a lesser position than I would have, but I was determined to to work my way um through that. And so sometimes I think we, and women probably will do this a little more than men, will take a position and work their way through it and and realize that there is a path forward. Um, and so that was really my motivating um factor. So again, it was finding those networks of those professionals out there, talking to people. And and I think the volunteerism is so key because if you're willing to help with organizations, they're gonna see you as a person um that really might be willing um to be a good employee out there too. So I I encourage people again. Um, sometimes it's just that informal opportunities that might lead to other opportunities.

SPEAKER_01 11:59

Great, great advice. Your career, it's obviously hugely important to you, but there's more to you than just your career. And I wonder if you always knew, even when you were young, that you wanted to have a family, that you wanted to have a career, that you wanted to keep both of them, or if it just sort of happened that way.

SPEAKER_00 12:19

Yeah, no, I think I I always did. And so um, when you know, I worked in in marketing and advertising when when I was first out of college, and those are very long days. And so I realized like when I had my children, I was like, I'm not gonna be able to balance both. So I really had to to reevaluate um what I could do um around uh my children. So it took a few years off, and then um I was I was kind of a little interested in real estate sales, but the appraisal really um I was able to better manage my Monday through Friday time doing that. And I again I loved being an entrepreneur. I was an independent contractor, so it gave me the opportunity to kind of set my schedules, set my family life, and do all that. And I'm not sure if I would have continued to do that if the market had stayed um different. Excuse me. Um, but then it was the the opportunity, I really think, um, in terms of embracing aging, because what I recognized was we're all gonna age. We're all aging every day. We're breathing, we're aging. And you were going through it through your family members. My family, right? So while I was raising young kids, I was kind of that sandwiched generation of helping aging parents as well, too. And that really sparked something in me because I really wanted others to be supported and to be able to um do that. So excuse me. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 14:01

Thank you. And and so you had this experience where the kids came along, you took a little time out, but you're like, I'm gonna go back to a career that works for my life, which we talk a lot about on this podcast. And so, how how many kids did you have? How old were they when you said, I need to get back to a career? And were you feeling that yearning? Like, I need to have a separate identity. Was it like financial? We need more money. You know, what was the impetus to really get you back?

SPEAKER_00 14:30

I think it was a little bit of both. My kids were um just entering school, so they were about five years old when I made that change. And so I wanted something that I could do again that was a little bit flexible. Um, but I think I truly did miss that identity and that role. And so while it is, it's hard to balance all of it, so one of the things that what we recognize is not only caregiving for older adults, but caregiving in general. And a lot of what we do in our work at Ageguide is how can we get employers to better support working caregivers? So looking at their policies and their flexibility at Ageguide, um, we've been very um mindful in how we've been doing that. And so we kind of call it like a little stage of life because we all go through these stages of life, whether we're supporting our raising young kids, whether we have aging parents, whether we have health issues that we have to take care of, they all involve needing some flexibility and some opportunities for our employers to do that. And we really found that, and I will say during the pandemic, it did open our eyes to how work could be more flexible. And we wanted to really build on that so that not all work has to take place in the office, that people can caregive at home and be able to still get their work done at in different hours or in different ways. And so this just kind of leveraged, I think, things that I was experiencing in my life and wanted to make sure that we're giving good quality of life to all the people that we employ. And then we're taking that one step further. And we want to make sure that there are caregiver policies out there, statewide, federally, so that all people feel supported and that they know their help is out there. A lot of times, um, people won't tell their employers that they're experiencing these issues. They're either fearful and they're they're trying to manage, trying to do health appointments or do other things and they're missing work or they're um not as present because they again are dealing with multiple things. And to get employers to recognize that supporting that person is far more um beneficial to them and actually can save them so much money in employee turnover. And so, how do we kind of flip that narrative? And it's not just women out there, men are doing a lot of the caregiving um as well out there. And um, my son just had their second child, and he was fortunate to get paternity leave. Not all men get that either. So, this caregiving journey, both men and women, we want to make sure that families are supported in whatever the way they are. Sometimes they're the family you build outside of, you know, your immediate families, right? They're your friends you're taking care of, they're your relatives in other ways. And um, so how do we just kind of recognize that is part of who we are? And how do we really build that into our work? So that has really been a lot of our advocacy too, just really supporting that.

SPEAKER_01 18:12

Because, you know, there is this push for employers to really understand their employees from a holistic perspective, but there's a lot of pushback we have found in terms of employers accepting that, you know, this is something that you can invest in, you will get a return, but that takes a little initial investment and understanding. And there's a barrier to get past that initial phase. And I wonder how you've been able to do that and what you think has been successful in helping the employers to understand this benefits everyone, them, their employees, and the community at large.

SPEAKER_00 18:48

Yeah, we've been very good at actually showing up a lot of the statistics, like you said, like what are the benefits of doing this? Um, but we also work with them on policies and working with their employees' assistance programs to say, like, how do you contact the area agency if I did need like a dot a ride for my mom's doctor's appointment? So they're underutilized resources that they're not even connecting their employees to. And so those opportunities, again, it's just a lot of education and getting people really to recognize that little incremental changes can make a big difference in employee satisfaction and their ability to stay in those jobs. And also, I think looking at employment um flexibility in terms of part-time and full-time, and really giving people the opportunity where you might be able to break down a job, and especially in terms of older workers, and a lot of our advocacy around um age-friendly workplaces is saying that, and I'm gonna be experiencing this soon too, right? Like, I don't know that I'm done. I might be, I might be done with this position, but I know there's more in me. And I know the conversation we had earlier around what are you gonna do for the next 20 years or what are you gonna do? I think there are many opportunities that I would like to do, but they might not be in nine to five five days a week. And they might not be in a CEO position because I might have other interests that would allow me to again stay engaged. And then we look at just the workforce itself. More people are gonna be over the age of 65 than under 18. So, how are we gonna get be able to keep the workforce that we have? Is a way that we've got to keep people employed longer, but maybe in different ways. And so, again, those caregiver policies, those flexible policies are gonna allow people to maybe even keep people like me in a position that you might say, hey, no, you don't want to do this right now, but maybe you could do this project for us, or maybe we'll have you back in a different role. And that helps people transition into those next phases. And I think we're all gonna have to look at that because the longevity and the economics of aging, many, many people are not prepared for the true cost of what it's gonna be for when they retire. And so they're gonna want to look for those opportunities too. So I think for all of us, and in particular, you know, working women, it's how do we make sure that we are getting the support we need and the flexibility we need in the workplace to make sure we have that work life balance, I think is really key.

SPEAKER_01 21:50

And you found in your early career that you didn't have it, you weren't necessarily going to be supported as a mother. And at that point, you either couldn't or you didn't negotiate to consult or go part-time or whatever. And they may have benefited from having an opportunity to keep you if if you know, and and more people are trying to make those arrangements. You know, I was a freelance reporter and I and I said out as a joke, you know, to my managing editor, like, oh, I would just love to go two days a week because he asked me to come back after I'd been gone for six months. And he said, We can arrange that. And I said, Oh, great. And then that defined the next 15 years of my life. So I wonder And you didn't even think that I mean, as a freelancer, you know, it but it just was so common that even as a freelancer, you were working five days a week, you know, and that was what turned out to be perfect for me. And then eventually I ended up becoming a serial entrepreneur, but that was a separate thing on the side. But you you decided, okay, I'm gonna have to take a step back. It's kind of all or nothing. And then when you did seek uh to continue your career in another direction, did you have to get child care? Or did you manage because of the age your kids were and the direction you went in, that you never really had to put your kids in daycare, hire a nanny, get babysitters, that you avoided all that stress. Well, how did you deal with it?

SPEAKER_00 23:17

Yeah, I mean, I I guess for me is I I did take that time when my kids were were were smaller. And then when I did start um real estate appraisals, one child I had that was just starting in kindergarten, he had another one that was three, my other son. And I was fortunate that I had a good friend that actually did child care, and she would just kind of let me drop off kids like when I had an appointment. So I didn't have to commit to like a month of child care. I didn't have to do some aftercare, you know, with school and things like that. So I did have to do those things, but I had some flexibility of okay, I won't make appointments on a Monday and Friday. I'll just work from home. There wasn't really work from home back then, but I was able to do it like with the work I was doing. So I kind of modeled some of the things that I look at now without really knowing that I was doing it, but it did allow me again to kind of have that um opportunity uh to have a career and still be able to kind of balance like home life and aging parents and all the other things that kind of come with it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:29

And so you had that great flexibility, but yet at a certain point you said, I want to be an employee again. I want a full-time job. I did. And was it the age of your children and you were sort of looking to fill that gap? And was it something in you as well that you were looking to fill?

SPEAKER_00 24:44

Yeah, I think it was one that I did have the opportunity that they were in school full-time and they were getting older, but I'm I'm gonna also say financially. I was facing, you know, college years and things like that. And so, how was I gonna be able to manage that? So we knew that we probably needed a little more income to be able to do that. And so I think that's really what set me out on being able to say, okay, I I will tell you, I I remember the first days of like working like a nine to five job and thinking like you know, my kids were coming home for the bus. I was like, well, this is really different. Like, you know, because you weren't there, because I wasn't there, and you know, and and so you had that mom guilt. I did have a little bit of that. I mean, I don't know how any of us don't, you know, because they truly I was lucky when I was little, my grandmother lived with us. So I my mom, you know, was working and you know, had the opportunity of having a grandparent at home. And so those uh multi-generational families, you know, really allowed women to work and do that. Like we really informally created a lot of those opportunities for people too, and we don't always see that anymore. Families are spread out and they're not um really uh able to to kind of have that. And so the people, you know, you have to find other opportunities and what you're doing. And so yeah, I think some of it was the the wanting to like it was kind of that time, like what was my career gonna be and where where was I gonna go? So I do definitely feel like I was feeling that how I got to where I got to, that just kind of built on itself. Um, but it's been such a gift. I mean, it has just been such a gift to be able to create um and and work with this dedicated network of aging professionals and all that they have dedicated their careers to supporting all of us as we age and to impact policy and to work with those elected officials to really recognize that um these are disinvested programs that you really need to recognize that we leverage so much between our local resources and our volunteerism and all of that. And so the return on investment is so great. People are feeling good, people are living longer. It's like and they're contributing. And they're contributing, and it's and I uh it frustrates me sometimes because they can't see the opportunities that it continued investment can make in these programs. So I think that's what really drives the work that we do. That's why I think I'm most proud of the advocacy work we do because without change, we're not gonna get it. Just like you said, if you didn't ask for two days a week, you're not gonna get it. So we have to continue to kind of raise those voices out there. And and we've got the numbers. I mean, uh, you know, 12,000 people a day are turning 65. So, you know, the numbers are there and the voices are there, and so they've we've got to start creating that society that we want. And it is very different. I mean, we we're experiencing this globally, this global aging phenomenon. And people are not only turning 65, but they are living longer. And so for me, like when you're talking about what what does that next chapter, and I'm like, I don't know yet, but I'm gonna tell you, there's some years there. And I I had a good role model in my mom. Um, she reinvented herself time and time again. So she retired at 70 and um worked for an adult literacy or volunteered for adult literacy for a number of years, did their board, then she got involved politically with um the fighting a high rise behind her senior building. That's how she ended up running for the village board um at 80. And so I just I I always think about how she led her life. And I want to know that like I I still have that impact and that I'm still able to do those things. So I'd love to come on your show a few years from now, tell you what I might be doing, but I I know that there's other opportunities out there for sure.

SPEAKER_01 29:13

So fantastic. And you've already had so much impact, you've done so much in this career and life, right? Raising kids and all that you've achieved. If you could go back to an earlier time, knowing then what you know now, what's one thing you would change?

SPEAKER_00 29:30

I think my one thing that I would change. Such an interesting question. I don't think I've done that retrospective. There there was a time I come from a family of educators. And so my mom was very influential in the Chicago Teachers Union and my sister as well. And um early on when my kids were little, she was like, Go get your teaching license, go, you know, go do that. And I was like, I don't see myself like in that role of like teaching, but I always kind of look back and go, if I would have thought about administrative an administrative track and been able to, I think more of the I think I just have that policy part of me. I I might have gone down that road. And I just didn't see that part of it. But I think other than that, I think all the changes that happened, they all kind of led me to where I was gonna be. So I don't regret any change or any of those things, but I I think all of us see a couple career turns you might have made that you're like, uh, but I don't know what that would have been either, you know, like and so I that was just one that always like kind of was like, hmm, I could have made an impact there, but I'm really happy I made the impact where I didn't. I think that was my these were my people. You found your people. That's a beautiful thing.

SPEAKER_01 30:57

Thank you for all that you've revealed on today's episode. Thank you of women and such a delight. I really enjoyed our conversation. I am so glad, and I'm sure that our viewers and listeners did as well. If you enjoyed today's episode, we want you to share it with a friend, leave a review, and subscribe to meet our next amazing guest. If you or anyone you know is struggling to find the right childcare, just submit your criteria and then watch a video interview with the ideal nanny who fits your family at momsub.com. That's momsub like a substitute mom. Our mission is for you to get the help you need so you can discover what you want in life, pursue it with intensity, and fulfill your dream, reducing your stress, guilt, and self-criticism, and increasing your calm, confidence, and clarity along the way. Remember, your career, your choices, and your success are yours to define. So keep pushing boundaries and spreading your love and encouragement to other women who need it.