Emily McGovern's Journey From Living with ARFID to Finding Eating Disorder Recovery

Welcome back to the Bite by Bite Podcast.

Avoidant/Restrictive Food Intake Disorder (ARFID), is an eating disorder in which a person significantly limits the amount or variety of food they consume due to sensory sensitivities, fear of aversive consequences, or overall lack of interest.

In this episode, Kait sits down with Emily McGovern who shares her lived experience with an eating disorder that began when she was just four years old. What many brushed off as “just being a picky eater” eventually revealed itself as ARFID. Emily shares her transformative experience in eating disorder recovery and highlights the importance of community and support during said recovery. The conversation highlights the emotional struggles, coping mechanisms, and the journey towards self-acceptance and personal growth that Emily experienced during her recovery journey.

Episode topics:

• Emily’s early struggles with food (2:03)
• Understanding ARFID and its impact (4:34)
• Emily’s transformative experience in eating disorder recovery (14:30)
• The importance of community in Emily’s recovery (16:22)
• How to navigate personal relationships when people aren’t sure how to provide support (21:29)
• Emily shares what she grieved about the eating disorder during recovery (26:08)
• Emily speaks about the non-linear nature of recovery (29:56)
• How Emily challenged stigmas that surround eating disorders (39:49)
• The importance to Emily of finding positivity and creative outlets (42:13)

Episode guest: Emily McGovern is a blogger and mental health advocate. She runs Embracing Emily, a lifestyle blog with over 3,000 readers, where she shares reflections on wellness and recovery. On Instagram, @embracingemilyslife, she offers a more personal look into her world—sharing glimmers of daily life, mental health advocacy, and moments of inspiration for her community.

Content Warning: This episode contains brief mentions of eating disorder behaviors that Emily has previously engaged in. Please listen in a way that feels safe for you and your recovery. 

RELATED EPISODES:

Finding My Way Back to Myself Through Anorexia Recovery

Batting an Eating Disorder and The Healthcare System with Courtney Stoltzfus-Zvara

Finding Purpose in Eating Disorder Recovery with Alex Sublette

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Chapters

• 2:03 Emily’s early struggles with food
• 4:34 Understanding ARFID and its impact
• 14:30 Emily’s transformative experience in eating disorder recovery
• 16:22 The importance of community in Emily’s recovery
• 21:29 How to navigate personal relationships when people aren’t sure how to provide support
• 26:08 Emily shares what she grieved about the eating disorder during recovery
• 29:56 Emily speaks about the non-linear nature of recovery
• 39:49 How Emily challenged stigmas that surround eating disorders
• 42:13 The importance to Emily of finding positivity and creative outlets

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:05

Hey there, and welcome to fight by fight. The podcast I just use the first task to the messy, beautiful, and real turning almost struggle with the easy order. And I recovered. I'm here to share my own experiences. You know, with them are gathered along the list. Here, I share it all. The raw, the real, and the unconscious. For those of you, they're not allowed to for those of you who have a file disorder. Before we dive in, we discover the while I told my story. This podcast is not a substitute. If you're struggling or need extra support, please reach out to us all funmentalhelps.com. And one more thing. This podcast is explicit. Because if I'm gonna do something, there's no way in hell I'm gonna leave my personality outfit. So let's dive in. In this episode, our guest, Emily, opens up about her experience living with an eating disorder that began as early as age four. She will share her earliest memories in her preschool classroom. What started as extreme pickiness later revealed itself as Orphan, avoidant restrictive food intake disorder, a diagnosis that surprised her. She shares the often overlooked reality of early onset eating disorders, the silent battle she fought throughout her childhood and adolescence, and how things escalated in college where she finally accessed treatment. This conversation explores the impact of RFID and eating disorders in general, as well as the complexities of navigating recovery in a college setting and the power of finally being seen and supported. Hi, thanks for having me. I'm super excited. Me too. So me, I know that you have a history of an eating disorder, but before we get into that, can you just just tell the listeners a little bit about yourself outside of eating disorder? Like who is Emily?

SPEAKER_00: 2:24

Yes. Um, my name is Emily. I um am 22. I recently graduated from college in my undergrad degree this past May. Um grats. Thank you. I graduated with a degree in marketing, um, and I also minored in writing and film, and those are two things I'm really passionate about. Um, I have a blog called Embracing Emily, where I kind of combine my passion for writing, for film, and mental health, and I talk about a variety of things, but yeah, that's a little bit about me.

SPEAKER_01: 2:53

Yeah, I did go through your blog a little bit, and it is really it's really cool because it's like personal but also factual and like educating in a lot of ways. So I will link that in the show notes so that people can look at it if they want to. Yeah. Um, so tell us a brief description of like the struggle that you had with an eating disorder.

SPEAKER_00: 3:18

Yeah. So I have struggled with food my whole life. I truly can't remember a time in my life where I didn't. My earliest memory of like four years old, I remember struggling with food. So there's never been a time in my life where I felt in no way normal. Um, and I didn't start getting help for like my mental health until probably like two years ago. Um, and I didn't get diagnosed with an eating disorder until probably a year and a half ago, even though I always knew I struggled and I knew that there was something not normal about the way that my relationship with food was. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 3:57

Um so wow, that's a long four years old to if you're 22 now. Yeah. And then I'm you started getting formal help and you were 20. Um so you say that you knew. So for what did you, if you don't mind sharing, what were you diagnosed with? And like what was like I know the struggle was food and disorder, but like what what what was it specifically?

SPEAKER_00: 4:21

Yeah. I was my diagnosis has changed like three times. So I try not to get too hung up exactly what clinically I struggle with. Um so at this point, I just I just say I have OSFED. Um, so I've struggled with like binging, I've struggled with restricting. Um I've struggled with RFID a lot. Like it's that's kind of my earliest memory, is like when I was four, I remember I've had such strange rituals with food of like if something wasn't opened a certain way, I wasn't gonna eat it. And when I was four, I remember being in preschool, and there was a very specific way that this snack had to be opened. Otherwise, I was so freaked out I couldn't eat it. And the teacher didn't open it the way I needed it to be open, and I was like, I can never eat the snack again. And it's kind of crazy to think about like how you said I'm like 22 now, and it's like that was when I was four, and I kind of went through phases like and struggles with that with food for so long and like didn't seek help until about two years ago-ish. Um, and so it's crazy to think of how far I've come, like recovering, considering that my struggles date back to so long ago.

SPEAKER_01: 5:35

So just for the people listening, RFID, and I might be wrong about this. That is when there's a little OCD in there with like the opening and how it's repaired. But that's also just certain foods, you just are like can you tell us more about that? I don't want to see.

SPEAKER_00: 5:54

Yes. There's a couple different kinds. People struggle with different things with RFID. So I'll speak on my behalf of what I struggle with. I with RFID struggle with the textures of foods and taste of foods. Um and I know other people some people struggle with the fear of like vomiting, and I think that's involved with RFID. That's not something that I've struggled with per se, but um, yeah, so I just I personally struggle with like trying to figure out how to describe it. But like I have a huge fear of trying new foods, and I think that for some people it's like there's a little bit of fear when you try new foods, especially when you're younger, but it's not to this point where it's debilitating and it's like severely impacting your ability to like try new things and to function, and it that's kind of how it like applies to me in my life. Um yeah, but everyone's struggles are if it's like a very interesting thing. Everyone kind of has different struggles within it. Um, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 6:54

Yeah, so it sounds like it's like that you said texture and taste is kind of like a sensory component. Yeah. Or like there might be times that you do want to eat it, but you just doesn't taste right or it doesn't feel right. Yeah. That's that's gonna be hard. So how did that feed into the binging and the restricting? Or are does that come together?

SPEAKER_00: 7:16

I honestly am still trying to think that through and like work through that. I, you know, like I've gone through phases in my life since I was four that I like one behavior, I guess, is like kind of overtaking the eating disorder, then the other. Um and so I don't even know how it's all intertwined. Like I still wondered at myself. Um, but I kind of have tried to focus instead of like working and and trying to like figure out what why I'm why am I doing this? Like, why do I keep coming back to it? I kind of try and think about the eating disorder as like it's a coping mechanism. So I'm doing this because of something internally, like deep down that I'm trying to like cover up. Um, whether it's like I'm insecure about myself, I'm insecure about the way I look, or like I'm insecure about me as a person and my personality. And it's like once I started viewing the eating disorder as that, and then I'm using food and kind of manipulating it to make myself feel better, that really helped me like recover. And I'm like, okay, I'm gonna try and learn new coping mechanisms that are healthy and sustainable for the long run.

SPEAKER_01: 8:24

Yeah, uh that's interesting that you say that it was a coping mechanism because that was a big thing for me too, where it was a coping mechanism for control and emotions. And do you find that that was essentially what you were coping with, with like emotions you didn't want to feel, or if life fell out of control? Oh, I can I can control what I eat or don't eat.

SPEAKER_00: 8:46

Right. A hundred percent. The control thing is like a huge aspect for me with the eating disorder. It's like, I think I just want to control, especially when you're younger and like in your teenage years, like, and you're kind of your hormones everywhere and you're just emotional all the time and you don't know, and you're learning how to like regulate that on your own. Using food was like for me just an easy way to control that. And that was all I knew. And I'm still trying to learn, like, as a person, like what is normal, like how do I cope with these crazy emotions? And so, yeah, control I think is a big thing for a lot of people with eating disorders. Um, that that's what they're using it for to like gain control.

SPEAKER_01: 9:29

Yeah, absolutely. So you mentioned that two years ago is when you started when you got treatment in a formal way. When did you kind of always think you needed some some extra like something officially that will help you, or did you just realize it two years ago?

SPEAKER_00: 9:51

I kind of always knew deep down that I would benefit from therapy and that I kind of needed some sort of higher level of care. Like I wasn't for most of my life, like I did not see any therapist outpatient. I saw a dietitian when I was like maybe 12 or 13, and my mom and my family kind of saw how much I was struggling with food, and we did exposures like an RFIT exposure kind of thing. And that, you know, I did that for about half a year, and it was very helpful for the time being, but I still had so many struggles with food that I needed so much more help beyond that. Um, so like two years ago, I started seeking out therapy and and help with that my mental health in general and my anxiety and depression. Um, I was just like in a really low point. I was like living alone by myself. I was very lonely. Um, and my anxiety was like overtaking my entire existence. I could not function, I could not leave my bed. Um, so that's when I started going to therapy. And I was in therapy for about like five months before I actually started talking about how like food is really impacting my life. And I didn't even like kind of process that food could be like impacting my anxiety, and that could be why I'm really anxious and why I'm really sad all the time. And when I started talking about that, my therapist recommended me to go see a dietitian, um, like do an intake and see what they say. And that's when I was first diagnosed with an eating disorder, and I started seeing a dietitian each week, kind of working through things, and it was helpful and I learned some things, but I like looking back now, I realized I needed a higher level of care so desperately that this is not gonna work. I would have never recovered to the point where I am now if I had never gone to treatment. Um, and so it the I wasn't seeing that dietitian for about like four months, and then I went back to school and I had to switch providers and stuff because of state laws. But um yeah, and then once I went back to school, I saw a new therapist, I saw a new dietitian, and I was like, why am I so sad? Why do I feel so depressed? I have everything I've wanted the past year. I'm like back at school, I'm with my friends, I'm living with my favorite people. My life is great and I'm like happy, quote unquote, but I'm miserable. Like I can't leave my bed. Like food was overtaking my entire existence. I couldn't function, I couldn't enjoy anything. So that's when I got recommended to go to PHP. And I was like, I can't drop out of school because I took a medical leave of absence that prior spring for my mental health, which was the best decision I ever could have made for myself. And it helped me learn so much about myself and learn how to regulate my anxiety. So I was like, I can't leave school again. Like I have to graduate this May. Um, and so I did an IOP for just depression and anxiety and learned kind of just coping skills, and it was good for the time. Um, and I I look back and I'm really glad I did that. And I learned a couple of things, but I think what I needed most at that point in my life was to have access to a therapist. Like I had went three days a week, and that was like really important to me, I think. Um, and after I finished being there for about two, three months, I still was so unhappy. And my therapist was like, have you thought that maybe because I in my head was like, oh, like if I figure out my depression and anxiety, the eating disorder is gonna go away. If I'm just a little less anxious and I'm less sad, the eating disorder will diminish and I'll be fine. When vice versa, it was maybe I need to figure out the eating disorder and then my anxiety and depression will go down. Um, so that's when she was like eating disorder treatment. And we had talked about it before I did that IOP, and I was like, absolutely not, like I'm not doing that. And I remember we went through like my fears of like why I don't want to do it. And I was like, I don't want to eat, like, I don't want to eat with people. And I like thought that made so much sense. And I I think about it now, and I'm like, that is the whole point of treatment. Like, I don't know why I was saying that. But yeah, so I started treatment and I was like, I'm gonna try, but like I'm not promising that like this is gonna work out for me, but like I'll try. My first day was actually Christmas Eve this past year, and I think this is a very unique experience to me. But I like instantly after my first day knew like this was gonna be the best thing for me. I knew I was going to walk out of those doors and be the best version of myself. And I think a lot of people, I think pretty much everyone I've ever talked to who goes to treatment, like that first day is so tough. But for me, it was like a sigh of relief. And I was like, this is going to be like so good for me. Like it's gonna be hard, but this is what I've needed for so long. And it was like such a validating experience because I finally felt seen. Um, so yeah, I was in treatment from an eating disorder till like this past May, five months. And I was after I left there, I was like, I'm so ready to go. I've been here for too long. And yeah, I've like felt so amazing and I've felt like so free since leaving. Um, and I just feel like I can like live. And I when people see me now, and like when I started seeing people after treatment, they're like, you just like seem so different. And I keep telling people it feels like I have a personality for the first time in my life. I feel like I'm like a person and I'm not scared about what other people think of me, and I can just be myself. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 15:34

Wow, that's huge. That's best that's the best feeling in the entire world. And it's not a feeling that you can explain either. It's just if you've experienced it, then you know what it feels like. Right. Um so you did first of all, let's back up for a second, because the fact that you did all this and you were in undergrad is amazing. Yeah. That's like you should pat yourself on the back because that is school in itself is a full-time job. It is treatment in itself is a full-time job. And that is huge. Yeah. Kudos big kudos to you. Um so you were in PHP the second time? No, that's so I'm wonder I'm just wondering if it was because I did PHP too, and that was five days a week, like eight to four, like a school day essentially. Yeah, yeah, that was what yeah. What and I know I know the answer really is the whole package, treatment in general, but if you had to like narrow it down to like one or two things from that treatment experience and PHP, what do you really think helped the most? Like what were the two things that like were the breakthrough?

SPEAKER_00: 16:46

Without a doubt, the people I had like was blessed. Like, I was not supposed to be there a day earlier or a day later. That's what I taught myself. Like I was there with the most like life-changing people, and I truly made the bestest of friends. Like the group of people that I made and the friends I made there are people I talk to literally every single day. I they're gonna be like in my wedding. Like, we just bonded so much, and I think it helped that a lot of them were all the same age, we were all in college. Like, we had a lot in common to begin with, and then we kind of just really hit it off. Um, and having that support from people who like truly see you for you, and they also see like the darkest sides of me. And I I think that helped me so much grow as a person, and I feel so much more confident in myself. And I I struggled a lot with like friendships growing up, as almost every girl does, and in college, I struggled with that too. And it made me question my own worth as a person, and I'm like, people just don't like me, maybe I'm not a likable person. And going to treatment and just like showing such a low, dark side of myself, and people still like loving me more than ever and accepting me for who I am was so validating. And it made me be like, okay, I can just like be myself outside at work and school and wherever I am, and like people are gonna love me. Some people might not like me, and that's okay. But that feeling of people accepting you for who you are was like the best thing ever. Um, and I just like, yeah, the people who were there with me, and then like the staff, I just like was so amazing and just like changed my life forever. Um, so I like 100% the people.

SPEAKER_01: 18:32

Yeah, that's the people and when I when I say people like the peers that you're with, but also the staff who work there and you know, staff who work with you, they in my opinion make a bread treatment because they're the ones delivering the treatment. They're the ones that you're working with, and then the peers, they are I mean, they're all the only people who truly know what you're what you mean when you say what you say. Just because they're living it too, and that's like a whole nother level of understanding. And when you have people in your life outside of treatment who do love you and care about you and they don't know what it's like to live with an eating disorder, there's still that barrier. And it's no one's fault. But having someone in your people in your life who know what you're talking about and know what it feels like, it's it's a world of difference. So I'm glad that you found that.

unknown: 19:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 19:27

Um, I always say, and trust me, when I grew up I had some of the same trouble as you did, like making friends, yada yada yada. Um and now I just I saw something on Instagram one day and it was like a quote or a meme or something, and it was like, why are you worried about everyone liking you when you don't even like everyone? And so true. It's humorous, but it's true. Like you're not gonna like everyone, not everyone's gonna like you. And I truly didn't let that go until I turned like 30.

SPEAKER_00: 20:03

Like, it's hard. It's hard. You want everyone to like you like naturally, and I think like as I've gotten older too, and like in the workplace and stuff, it's like I need everyone to like me. That's like what I would tell myself, and it's like you don't though, like you want everyone to respect you, and I think that's like a bare minimum, like everyone should respect you, whether you like someone or not, but not everyone's gonna love you and want to be best friends with you, and like that's okay.

SPEAKER_01: 20:29

Do you think, and I know you just had the best experience at PHP and you're in a great place now, but do you think that if you had gone to PHP the first time and not IOP, that things would be different, either good or bad? I think like 100%.

SPEAKER_00: 20:48

I think about that a lot, actually.

SPEAKER_01: 20:50

Which is probably not helpful to think about at that point because I can just hear my therapist in my ear right now. I know it's not helpful.

SPEAKER_00: 20:57

I know. I I think about it though, like I think not that it would have been worse off, but I'm like, I truly when I say I'm like I was not supposed to be there a day later or earlier, like I'm like literally the exact timeline I was there, I was meant to be there. And like I I do get hung like hung up on like I wish someone would have, especially if I was in treatment, I was like, I wish someone would have done this to me earlier, like when I was in high school or something. Like I always think about how different my life would be if someone would have intervened and like saw that and spoke up and and like pushed me to get treatment. Um, but it's it's not great to like get too hung up on that. So I try not to, and I just like feel so happy and grateful for like the state my life is in now that I'm like, you know what? I'm happy with where I am that I don't need to think about that too much.

SPEAKER_01: 21:46

Right, it doesn't matter. You are where you are. Yep. So not to be negative, but you've you pointed out what helped you the most. What do you think probably was the least helpful? Not and not even that it was a bad thing that you learned or did in treatment, just in general, like what do you think didn't really make that much of a difference?

SPEAKER_00: 22:09

I think something I really struggle with during treatment and stuff was just explaining to people outside and in my support system, like what is going on and having them like understand, and people have very good intentions of wanting to support you. And I think sometimes it's hard because you don't know what you want from them to help support you because you're confused. And I found that to be like really, really challenging to navigate, and you know, like I still am struggling with it, and like it's it's really hard because some there's a part of me still that wants to like that's obviously always going to be attached to different things with the eating disorder, but I'm like, I want to isolate from that and I don't want to talk about it with anyone or like do anything, I want to do it all myself, and it's like still really challenging. And I think too, like sometimes I'm like I just sound crazy, and especially with Arfid, like trying to explain things like that. And I remember like trying to explain to my friends and like my roommates, like how I would like sit with like a banana for like an hour every week to like try and build up the courage to take a bite. And it took like five weeks before I took a bite, and I'm like, I sound crazy. I'm like, I feel like sometimes people who don't have that education of an eating disorder are probably like, this is insane. And I think it like really made it difficult for me to talk about it with people in my life because I'm like, I just feel weird and I feel like this is like not normal, and they're gonna think I'm crazy. Um, and it's like still something I struggle with, but I'm a pretty like open book and I'm like very willing to share like all aspects of my life with people. So I'm like, I think a heavel one-up being like that, but I that was really hard for me in treatment. Like at the end of the day, people are like, So how was your day? Like, whatever. And like I don't know, trying to explain that is really difficult.

SPEAKER_01: 23:55

Part of it too is sometimes you just don't want to, yeah. Um I remember um a big thing for me was like when I would try to explain it to people who didn't have the same experience, like when you when I said it out loud, I felt silly. Like that sounds so silly, like when you just hear it back. But I had that same struggle too, but now I'm just at a point where I'll openly talk about it and if it sounds silly, it sounds silly, and if they don't understand it, they don't understand it. But I also like make it known to people who I interact with and talk to all the time, like the people who are closest to me. It's like I don't need you to understand. Like it's okay that you don't. Like there's no pressure. I don't want you to feel pressure to try to understand or help or whatever. Like I can just when I say that, I often think of my dad, like, is he he his he probably feels helpless because he doesn't know what it's like or doesn't know what to say. He wants to say something, but he doesn't want to say the wrong thing. So then he says he says stuff, and I'm like, what? But it's funny because I'm like, I know he's trying so hard. So something that helped me was just telling the ones I love, like, you don't need to understand.

SPEAKER_00: 25:15

Yeah, I think too, after like in treatment, like after a long day, it's like they just people in your life want to be like very hands-on and like what can I do? Like, can I help you make dinner? Like all those things. And sometimes too, it's like sometimes I just want people to like listen. Like, I just want to talk. I don't want a solution, I don't want feedback, like I just want to like talk about something that happened today or like a meal that was tough or something. And I think sometimes people just like want to find a solution. They're like, okay, so like what are we gonna do? Like what and I'm just like, I don't even want to think about that because that's not how recovery and eating disorders work. It's like I just want to talk about it. And like I think that was sometimes hard for people to understand in my life.

SPEAKER_01: 25:57

Right. Like, I don't first of all, I don't have the answer, neither do I. Right. And there's also times when like they're like, what do you need? or they want to help you. And it's not that it's not helpful, but when they say, What can I do? You don't have an answer because if you knew the answer, you'd probably do it. Right. You're both kind of like in the same boat in that sense. Yeah. Um, so the infamous eating disorder crush question that I've been asked a million times. I'm gonna go on a whim and say maybe you've been asked it. Are there parts of your eating disorder that you still grieve that you've missed?

SPEAKER_00: 26:39

A hundred percent. Like it's hard because I'm like, I'm doing so good. Like, I just there's so many behaviors and things I used to do that are so far behind me. I'm like, I don't even think twice about ever engaging with them. But then there's like still like random parts to me that are like, oh my gosh, like I miss that. I think something I struggle with, and a lot of people do, is like my body changing. And I think that's something I'm always gonna be dealing with, of like, you know, going through my phone and seeing what I used to look like. And I'm like, I was so miserable in this picture, but I missed the way I looked in that. And I think that's something that is, you know, I struggled with during treatment when I realized how much my body had changed by the end. And like I had to really like balance out, like, okay, look at how much I've gained in my life of like I've gained energy, friends, like a life and a personality. And it's like, okay, maybe I lost a little bit of like confidence in myself, or like I can gain that back over time versus these things. I'm if I go back to that eating disorder, I'm never gonna be able to gain that back. So you kind of have to like rationalize it for yourself of like, all right, in the long run, like this sucks and it feels uncomfortable and I miss this part of the eating disorder, but it's worth it. And sometimes that's easier said than done, and like I'm not gonna sit here and be like, I just I just think about it and then it's all better. Like it sucks, and sometimes you just have to accept that it's like I'm gonna agree with it and it's gonna be sad, and there's nothing I can do about it, right?

SPEAKER_01: 28:12

And the most important thing is that you have to let yourself feel about right? That's also part of the recovery.

SPEAKER_02: 28:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 28:20

Um, so in your experience, what is, and we kind of touched on this a little bit, but what is one thing that you wish people in your life or in general knew or at least understood about recovery?

SPEAKER_00: 28:38

It's said so many times, but recovery is not linear. And I think that it's I sound like a broken record, I think, at this point saying it in my life, and especially while I was in treatment. Something that I found really frustrating, right? I kept on saying to people in my life, I they viewed like so. When I would step down from like PHP to IOP, they're like, oh my gosh, so like you're better. And I'm like, I'm better, but like I'm not good, and I still need like help and I need like support from the people in my life. Um, and I wish that was something that people were able to understand. And I felt like sometimes even though I was saying it and saying it over and over again to people in my life, it still felt like as I was stepping down in their eyes, they're like, okay, she doesn't need me and my help anymore. They don't just need me to check in with how she's doing. But in reality, it's like when you step down, it's like that's when you need people to like really be checking in on you because you're losing accountability that you had while you were in treatment. So I think I just wish people knew it's like also two recoveries, not like even after you leave treatment. I don't know, there's like a science of years or time lying with it, but it's like it takes like to actually fully be recovered from it, it takes like years. Um, and so I wish people knew that and how just it's so hard. And it's like the accountability that you have to have in yourself after you leave treatment to keep. Up with what you started there is so difficult, and I think it's too like like I said, people view it as like, okay, so once you like leave treatment, like you're good, like you're cured, and in reality, it's just like a starting point of like jump starting you to like do the work on your own.

SPEAKER_01: 30:15

Yeah, I feel that for sure. So presently, are there still days like what's a bad day look like?

SPEAKER_00: 30:25

That's a tough question. Um I think for me, like a bad day. I don't want to get like into specifics or things, but I guess for me it's just like after a day of you know, probably using my eating disorder to like cope with emotions or something that happened in my life, and then that feeling at the end of the day of sitting with like, dang, like I wish I could have not done that. I wish I could have just like did what I know what I I know what I've learned, like I wish I could have just like applied those skills and kind of like intervened with myself and not done that. And so I think a bad day is like sitting in my bed at going to bed at the end of that day and realizing like kind of what I've done. And it's like I wish I could have acted differently.

SPEAKER_01: 31:15

Yeah. So it's like guilt, shame, just yeah. So what does a good day look like?

SPEAKER_00: 31:22

A day where I eat all my meals, all my snacks, and I like go to bed and I feel super fulfilled, and I have that like feeling of like, wow, like that feeling you realize, and then the first time you've you have that in recovery where it's like, wait, like I ate like all my meals, all my snacks today, and I actually like feel good and I feel energized and like I feel different. That like first time you feel that shift in yourself is like the best feeling. And so I think now, like at the end of the day, when I go to bed and I realize that and I have that feeling in my body of like, I feel so good, I feel healthy and energized. Um, and realizing like, oh, it's because I like you know, completed all my meals today and like I had fun with my food and I had dessert and like enjoy myself. I think that is a good day for me.

SPEAKER_01: 32:14

Just so everyone knows, she just smiled through that entire description of what that day is. Oh, I feel like I'm trying to like live through that myself right now. Yeah, no, it's I it's a great feeling when you have those days in recovery, and it's even greater when they just become that just days, not good or bad, it's just a day. I'm recovered and it's just Tuesday. Yep, yeah. Um, so as on the same topic as we're literally recording this, where are you in recovery?

SPEAKER_00: 32:44

I s I I feel like I'm walking that fine line of I'm not gonna say I'm a hundred percent recovered. Like, I don't know if you ever will be able to say that, but I feel like I said this earlier. I there's so many parts of my eating disorder that are so far in the past for me at this point where I'm like, I just can never ever go back to doing that to myself. Um, but with that being said, there's still things I'm struggling with, and a big part of that is like grieving, like, because most of my life I spent in that eating disorder. So it's like there's like a whole huge piece of my identity that is left in that. And I'm still trying to like figure out things of like who I am, and I'm still like I'm in such a weird phase of my life in general, like since graduating, of trying to like figure out what my next step of life is and like where I want to live and all these different things that trying to navigate the eating disorder and be flexible, because that's really difficult with an eating disorder. Um, I'm trying to like be okay in the in-between and navigate my intake and and all that stuff of making sure I'm eating enough, also being flexible.

SPEAKER_01: 34:02

Yeah. Flexibility is hard because I don't know if this has happened or maybe is happening presently or just on and off. But for me, there are times even still now that I get caught up so much in like being so afraid to go backwards and being so afraid to go back to eating disorder that my goal or my actions for recovery almost are way too protected. Or I'm sorry, protected. Like very I'm very protective in terms of like what I do and what I don't do. Like, for example, this is so silly. And like the other night I was I had dinner and I was rushing, I was tired, I didn't feel like cooking, long day at work, and I forget what the meal was, but I was gonna have broccoli with it. But I just got so caught up in like getting dinner done and eating and whatever that I never made the broccoli and I didn't realize it until the next day when I opened the freezer and it was still in there. And I was like mad. I was like, does that mean like was that a behavior? Like what? So it's like you then you start to think like every like that's normal, like I forgot.

SPEAKER_02: 35:14

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01: 35:15

Yeah. So I don't know if anything like that happens to you where you like it's just normal stuff happens and you're like, oh my God, it's hard to tell between like just life or did I intentionally do that and I'm not even aware?

SPEAKER_00: 35:29

Yeah, I I feel like in recovery with eating disorders, you become so hyper-aware of things, and then it kind of consumes you, and you're like, is that normal or not? Like, is it normal for me to like not want dessert this night? And it's like you're trying to like listen to your body, but also be aware that like you're still learning to trust your body, and it's that like weird line that you have to walk in between that of like, okay, like what is the you have to separate the eating disorder from your own voice. And when you're like half recovered, but you're half still in it, it's like what is what? And it it's so confusing. And even like farther down now, like in recovery, sometimes it's still like I'm confused. Like, is that me? Is that the eating disorder? I don't know.

SPEAKER_01: 36:16

Have you ever heard anyone refer to like this phase that you just talked about as like the messy middle? I've never heard this. It's so I haven't either until recently. Um, but it's like it's exactly what you just described. It's like you're not re fully recovered, but you're not like your eating disorder isn't active, essentially. And you're not trying to navigate life in a way that is a pro recovery, but not focusing on recovery to the point where it overtakes your life. And that's the only thing you prioritize. Yeah. Um and it's also like messy because when you have when you've been thinking so disordered for so long, like you don't even that's all you know. So you don't know what normal is. You don't know I mean you obviously know it's disorder, like you lived that, but I had a hard time like what does a normal person do? What do people do with who don't have eating disorders? Right. Like and that sounds again, it's one of those things that you that sounds so silly when you say it. Yeah, yeah. Um so if you could go back, even though we can't, but if you could and tell yourself whether it's like a four-year-old in your preschool classroom or at any point, what would you say to yourself in regard to everything?

SPEAKER_00: 37:50

There's a lot, so I'm trying to pick out what would be the most like impactful, but it's not it's not really huge, but like just giving myself grace. I think that was a phrase I heard so much through treatment of like, you know, like especially after a hard meal when you kind of like beat yourself up about it, it's like just give yourself grace. And I think I I kind of got to a point with that phrase from like it's so overused, I don't even like process it anymore. But when I really think about it, it's such an impactful phrase that I'm like, I think for so long I was so hard on myself, and I wish I could just be like breathe, it's okay, and like you're doing your best. Yeah, no, that's huge.

SPEAKER_01: 38:32

So to wrap this up, just a couple questions for our audience, really. So if there's anyone listening who is struggling or has struggled, or knows someone who is struggling, what is one thing that you would want them to know, or what was what would be one thing that you would want to say to them?

SPEAKER_00: 38:52

Um also so many things that I want to make sure I'm saying.

SPEAKER_01: 38:57

I know these questions are all loaded.

SPEAKER_00: 39:00

Um I honestly just think like giving yourself time and not but also not being too intimidated by the timelines that others give you. I think something that really stopped me from pursuing recovery fully was people saying it's gonna take years. And I said that earlier in the episode, but I was like, so what's the point? Like, I can't commit myself to this for years of of trying to recover from this. But everyone's on different timelines, everyone's at different points, especially in treatment, like everyone's coming in at different points in their eating disorder and struggling with different things that your timeline is so different from everyone else's. Um so I would say that.

SPEAKER_01: 39:41

Yeah. Don't compare yourself to other timelines. Yeah. So society, there's a big stigma on eating disorders, right? There's so many things as society just thinks about them. But living with one, experiencing one, healing from one, what is something that you just wish people didn't truly believe about eating disorders?

SPEAKER_00: 40:05

I think the biggest stigma that still really bothers me to this day is that um it solely has to do with weight and how much you weigh, and that you can see an eating disorder, which is just like the most false statement ever. And I I like the thing people say of like it's not a weight disorder, it's an eating disorder. So you get visible to the eye. Um, and I wish more people knew that like people just in their daily life could be struggling with it and they have no idea, and it's not something that you can see, it's a mental illness, in part with also being very physical and affecting your your physical health like severely. Um, so I wish people knew also just how impactful it is to one's overall health of physical and mental well-being.

SPEAKER_01: 40:55

Yeah, huge. And even like even I didn't know that. And I lived upon it for over 10 years, and like these things would happen to me, and I never want to thought, oh, it's bec it's because it's like a side effect or a symptom or whatever word you want to insert from my eating disorder. And I didn't even know most of them until recently.

SPEAKER_00: 41:15

And you too, yeah. And it's crazy to like look back, I think, on my life and like things that have happened with my health, and now realize that's because I wasn't feeling my body properly. And it's scary, but it's also I try to like be grateful that like nothing severe has happened to me or anything crazy, but it's crazy to see how much it impacts your physical health.

SPEAKER_01: 41:40

And it's also in a way, it makes it made me anyway appreciate my body so much more because look at all these things that my look at what I was doing to my body, right? And then instead of my body like doing more negative stuff, it was doing all of these things to protect me. Yeah. Like loss of menstrual cycle. Why was it doing that? Because I wasn't giving it enough energy, so it was trying to conserve energy. Like that's just one example of how our bodies are really like amazing. Yeah, a hundred percent. So today, and this could be in regard to the eating disorder or not, it could be just Emily as Emily. What? Like, and you are also at like the open world here. You just graduated college, you get to you have you can move, you can figure out where you want to live, what you want to do for work, all that fun stuff. So what keeps you positive? Like what just keeps you plugging along?

SPEAKER_00: 42:42

Um I would say people, the people and like support system in my life. I just like I'm someone who thrives off of connection and I'm like extroverted in a way that I get my energy being around people and talking to people. So that just keeps me going every day. Um oh my gosh, I was gonna say something else and I forgot. And I think too uh like I'm just a really creative person. And so I didn't really plug into that until I started recovery. And it's something that I just it like it makes me so happy. Like at the end of every day, like I love just like unwinding by doing something creative, whether it's writing or like actual art or something. Um yeah, I just I love being able to do that, and I can't do that if my mind and body are not fueled, so that kind of keeps me going. Right. What do you do for art? I'm just curious. I literally just like love coloring. I love like I love coloring. Like, who doesn't? I love like for like markers and stuff. I got into that while I was in treatment. Um, and I love just like sketching on my iPad, which is so strange. But my one friend is like very, very artistically inclined. And so she kind of taught me how to do that. Um, and it's super fun. So that's what I've been into recently. But I go through phases of like paint by numbers, like I'll just get something at Michael's to kind of like feed into that craving of wanting to do something artistic.

SPEAKER_01: 44:06

Yeah, whatever brings you joy, right? Yeah. Well, thank you so much for coming on and talking about really the hardest years of your life, essentially. Um I'm very proud of you for I don't even know you really, and I'm so proud of how because you've been smiling this entire episode, and I think being able to smile when you're talking about something so shitty is beautiful. So again, thank you for your time. And I don't know, maybe you'll come back. Who knows? Oh my gosh. That'd be awesome. Thank you so much for joining me for this episode of Bite Bye Bite. I'm so grateful to be able to share this space with you, and I hope today's conversation brought you some insight, comfort, or maybe even a sense of community. Remember, no matter what you're healing from, feeling isn't perfect, and every step you take does matter. If you enjoyed this episode, consider sharing it with someone who liked it, new idea, or subscribing on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or Apple Podcasts, please. If you want to add more,