When Heaven Feels Quiet|Grief, Faith and the Ministry of Presence

🔔 Trigger Warning: This conversation includes sensitive discussion around miscarriage and infant loss. Please listen with care and know that your story, your grief, and your healing matter.

In today’s tender and deeply honest episode, Shalesa sits down with Kelsi Cole—founder of Foreknown Ministries—to talk about the unimaginable pain of infant loss and miscarriage, and the sacred ground of healing that follows.

Kelsi, a childhood acquaintance turned Colorado Springs neighbor, opens up about her personal journey through five losses and the way God gently met her in every wave of grief. Together, they reflect on the beauty of community, the ministry of presence, and the importance of supporting not only mothers—but fathers too—through Foreknown Men, the companion branch of her nonprofit.

From vulnerable moments to practical resources, from the Wave of Light event to marshmallow crumbs and s’mores-muffled laughter, this episode is raw, healing, and holy.

🕊️ You don’t walk alone. Ever.

⸻

💬 Mentioned in This Episode:

Foreknown Ministries on IG: https://www.instagram.com/foreknownministries/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet

Foreknown Ministries links and resources: https://linktr.ee/foreknownministries?utm_source=linktree_profile_share&ltsid=e7ee0a25-090a-4a1e-b005-e0c7a16e6770

Foreknown Ministries Website: https://www.foreknownministries.org/?fbclid=IwY2xjawLkD8RleHRuA2FlbQIxMABicmlkETBYN1UwVnBONjgyRUs2OVlyAR7eY-E96lZPaanOHekp4ls7NXzb8Bvsb7IU9Ml3HPpWpls6TBoeeyS84XASrQ_aem_MZ6t4akM2hEpMkTpcQkrGQ

Wave Of Light: https://www.foreknownministries.org/waveoflight

The Worthy Woman Project on IG: https://www.instagram.com/worthy.woman.project/?igsh=MXYyODY1cjB3b3VndQ%3D%3D&utm_source=qr

Apply for 1:1 Mentorship: https://form.jotform.com/250986505598069

Share your story on this podcast: https://form.jotform.com/250987432136057

Support the mission, support a woman to join a retreat, workshop or 1:1 mentorship: https://form.jotform.com/250986201855058

Transcript

0:01

Hey sisters. Welcome back to the Worthy Woman, rooted in Rising, where we hold space for healing. Deep faith in the kind of real conversations that remind you, you're not alone. So before we dive into this incredibly tender and powerful episode, I've gotta tell you we are 1000% snacking on s'mores the entire time we're recording. So if you hear chocolate wrappers, marshmallow, muffled giggles, just roll with it. This is real life, and I haven't launched this podcast on YouTube yet, but when I do, y'all are gonna see the full sticky glory. So on a more serious note, I do wanna offer a gentle trigger morning. In this episode, we talk about infant loss, miscarriage, and the deep grief that comes with those experiences. They are hard conversations, and if you're in a tender place today, please listen with care. You're not alone and your heart is safe here. My guest is the amazing Kelsey Cole. She's one of those souls that carry both strength and softness and equal measure. We actually grew up in the same tiny hometown, and somehow God brought us back together years later, right here in Colorado Springs where her husband Ryan now serves on staff at our church. And Kelsey is the founder of a beautiful nonprofit called For Known Ministries. It was created to support others who are navigating the pain of infant loss. And what I love so much is that she didn't stop with just the moms. They also launched for known men, a branch specifically for fathers, because so often their grief is overlooked. In this conversation, we talk about it all. There's raw emotion. We talk about all the questions we wrestle with and how God continues to meet us. Right in the middle of our heartbreak, we also talk about their annual event, wave of light, and the resources they offer to grieving families. It's a sacred conversation and I pray it meets you with gentleness and grace right where you are. So grab a blanket, maybe a marshmallow or two. Hopefully they're homemade, maybe a cup of coffee or some tea, and let's go ahead and get into it.

Shalesa Aldrich: 2:10

Welcome to the Worthy Woman, rooted in Rising. If you're ready to rise into the woman God created you to be, you're in the right place. Each week we'll explore real stories with real women. No sugarcoating, no filters, just raw life-giving truth. If you've been longing for a space where hope is spoken, purpose is pursued, and healing is possible, you found it. Let's walk this journey together. You are worthy.

2:44

Hey guys, welcome back. I'm so glad you're with us today. I am here with my friend Kelsey Cole. She's amazing. I'm so happy she's here. Cool story. We met back when we were kids. Literally kids, literally. We grew up in the same small town out in Kansas, southwest Kansas, and our paths have crossed again as adults, which is just like incredibly insane. We ended up at the same church out here in Colorado Springs and just getting back together through a nonprofit that Kelsey works with and through some of her story that you're gonna get to hear today. So I'm just super grateful for that. So what a small world. I know. It's crazy. Thank you for having me. Yeah. I'm honored to not only share my story, but to talk to you and thank you. To share amazing s'mores. Yeah. This is the second best part of this. The first best part being the story. I don't know. I'd make to differ. I would. It's allowed. It's allowed. It's, you might need to taste first and then reevaluate. It's been debated. Without further ado, we're just gonna jump right in. Cool. Just like we do. But I'm gonna let Kelsey introduce herself talk about a little bit about what she does, who she is and all that good stuff. And then we'll dive into the story that she's gonna share today. So I'll turn it over to you. Like Issa said, my name is Kelsey Cole. We are in Colorado Springs, like right now. It's hot today. It is hot today. But it's beautiful. I am married to a wonderful piece of man candy named Ryan Cole. And we've been married. It's gonna be 14 years next month. Oh my gosh. Which is it's so crazy how sometimes it seems like it's been a lifetime and some days it seems like it was just last year. I know what you mean. And we're not old enough to be married that long. No. Just, we don't know how that happened. How long have you been married? We've been married 16 years in December, together for 17. That's amazing. Yeah. Sometimes I feel it, but like most times I still feel like a teenager. Yeah. And I'm like, sometimes I look and I'm like, I've got these three kids. I've got two car payments, I've got a mortgage. And I'm like, I'm just being, adulting is hard. Like at what point did we turn in our youth party? How'd we get here? Oh. Okay. This is starting to melt. Yeah, you're ready. Go for it. I'm going to put this on some graham cracker. Like I said, I've been married to Ryan for 14 years. We have six children. We have one. Ooh, this is an adventure y'all. We have. One here with us. And we have five in heaven. And we'll talk a little bit more about that later. But our one that we have here, her name is Kennedy. She's gonna turn 11 in three weeks. That's crazy too. Which she blows my mind. Blows my mind. Seems like yesterday she was just born. I remember that day august 9th, 2013. Goodness. And so yeah, the 14 years that we've been married, we've experienced the highest of highs. To the absolute lowest of lows. A lot of those being grief related. But we've been through quite a bit in our marriage, not just loss of children. But that is a rather big part of our story. Yeah. So tell us about, because I know a lot of. The hard stuff that you've been through has also led to a lot of the really cool stuff that you do for other people. So you're a part of four known ministries. Yeah. And then the events that you put on tell us more about those things that you do. Yeah. And how that all came about. Absolutely. So back in 2017, my best friend Allison and I were pregnant together. Okay. We both worked together. We did almost everything together and we were less. And 10 feet from one another every single day at our jobs. And we were expecting within a month of one another. Oh my gosh. Us with our son Woodson and Allison and her husband, with their daughter Cora. And I will never forget a late J day in January she wasn't feeling a lot of movement and she had let me know earlier that morning that she was going to go in to get checked out. And I went to work and very fat and happy myself. As I was just, I was, I think 36 weeks around that time, and it wasn't until my boss frantically walked through our office and said, I need everyone in the boardroom now, that it really just popped into my mind, okay, this is what happened. And I knew at that moment that my best. Friend and coworker was going through Ross and she was at the hospital and our boss told us what happened and I just said, I need to go be with her. I need to be with my friend. And it was just, it's a day I'll never forget. I feel like walking to that boardroom, I couldn't, could barely breathe. Let alone walk to the boardroom, just knowing what had happened. And so I went to be with her and what a moment like that was so surreal. And I just remember sitting in the hospital room with her not realizing obviously, that I would be sitting in that exact same room, in that exact same bed, less than two weeks after that. Oh my gosh. And so the exact same room, is that what you, the exact room. My gosh. Yeah, the exact same room. Thankfully we delivered at a wonderful hospital. But it was horrible. And so I was a few days short of 38 weeks and I went in for my last ultrasound mass, very last appointment before our scheduled C-section. And it was tech after tech that came in. With the same news of just not finding a heartbeat and you just, at that point in your pregnancy, you don't even realize that is a thing that, that's even possible. Yeah. Like you've made it to, you're past that part. Yeah. You're almost to the finish line. Yeah. And so that was a Friday afternoon. I had a scheduled C-section on Monday morning, and then we moved that up to Saturday morning. And I had to go home that night. And I remember. There was probably 40 people in my living room just praying and worshiping. And I remember my senior pastor being with us and just not understanding that, like praying for a miracle, believing that he could believing that he would and he should. Those are the prayers that like, you just don't remember what you pray.. Like it's where Holy Spirit intercedes. And prays through us. And I don't even remember what I prayed. I've probably spoke in tongues and and so I was left with a lot of questions. I'm, God, why didn't you answer my prayer? So it wasn't until about a month after we had Witson and he was like eight pounds, Shea. Beautiful chubby cheek, little chubby guy, and jokingly. Say he probably had a little bit of a beard already growing at the time because of my husband's beard. But but he had my gosh, strawberry, blonde, curly hair, like thick hair. So obviously he would've had a beard one day. Yeah, totally. But he was perfect looking. And so we were just, we had a lot of questions and about a month after we had what's in, my doctor called and said that he had found a chromosome abnormality in his amniotic fluid testing and that he had what's called trisomy 12, a condition that is not compatible with life is what they said. What does that even mean? I'm sure that's what you were thinking. Like what? Yeah. Yeah. Then how did he make it? Yeah. So far, how did he make it so far, and in speaking with a genetic counselor, if and when we wanted to try again, there would be a less than 1% chance of that happening. And but you guys already had Kennedy at this point? We did. Okay. We did. Yeah. And so still devastating news. Absolutely. And to walk. Our, at the time, 5-year-old through that. Yeah. Was a difficult challenge in and of itself. And'cause it's, her brother, it's something that she Looks so forward to. And as long as you've been looking forward to this, so has this 5-year-old Yeah. Who like, it's almost like they're getting a toy for Christmas. Oh. Like it's a new baby. Come on. So I can't even imagine another child. And Yeah. And so both Allison and I were propelled into the deepest, darkest season Of grief. So I thought at that time it was, yeah. At that time it was, and I gotta try this girl. We gotta try this. I could talk all day. But y'all don't see this more sitting in front of me. I need to reheat it just ever so slightly. Yeah. That's a good idea. With the heaviness we need to get, and I've got it all over my face. So I always say the messier the better. So don't be shy. Perfect. So what does it look like to grieve with a friend? Looking back in that season, she was the biggest gift to me because there were no words to say. Yeah. Because they didn't need to be said. I would come over, sit on her couch and we would just cry. And literally no words had to be said. I knew how she was feeling. Yeah. She knew how I was. Feeling it was just a bond. It was a dumpster fire, honestly. Yeah. And it really, truly was a bond. But how lucky we were to have one another we didn't fully realize until much later. But realizing that, what would it have looked like if I were to have to do that alone? Gosh, as most people do. Yeah. Whether they go through an early miscarriage, whether they. Go through a traumatic ectopic pregnancy. Or perhaps a stillbirth, or even the loss of an infant baby. To do that alone. It already feels isolating. Yeah. Because it's your loss. Yeah. But to do that alone without a friend who has gone through it, who truly understands, who really understands, like it's so isolating. And in all honesty, like that's where the devil does most of his hand work. Yep. That's where he wants you. That's where he wants me, the attack of grief. From a spiritual standpoint is isolation. It's guilt, it's shame, it's condemnation. Where God is no, I did, like I'm walking with you in it. Like I'm sad with you. In this hurts him just as much. Yeah. And if p pregnancy loss happens, it's now like 30% of all pregnancies end in loss alarm. So if roughly one in four women are experiencing that loss, how are they finding hope for their future? What do they have to. Look forward to where is the community that says, I will sit with you in this fire. You are not, you know how to do this alone. That is what we found in the gift of one another, and just realizing that. People don't have to do this alone. No. Is truly where, no, we felt called to really speak into that area. So back in it technically was October. I'm just gonna go for this. Oh, you totally should. Whew, I'm hot. It was technically October I'll back up. Summer of 2018 is really well, where we felt called to start Sunday. This is shortly after. It was very shortly after, but it was one day when Allison and I were to work and we were probably just felt worthless. To the day and told our boss probably around 10:00 AM that, we're just gonna leave. And, grief is the beast in the room. And we have nothing left to give the day. And we went to Mexican brunch, which is horrible, like anywhere. Don't ever go to Mexican brunch. But over a horrible Mexican brunch, we discovered that God gave us the exact same dream separately. And that was like kinda like your cloud. Vision. It was truly us talking to parents who have been through this loss and proclaiming God's goodness, even though what they're going through is hell. And so we prayed a lot that summer about what does this mean? What does this look like? What are you telling us to do with this? And we started. Four known ministries. Jeremiah one, five talks about how Jesus knew us before we were even in our mother's womb, right? Like he knew that this was going to happen. He didn't wake up on February 10th saying oh no. Like he allowed this to happen, but yet he wants to walk with me in it very intimately. And so for Known Ministries was founded on October 15th, which is Pregnancy and Infant Loss Remembrance Day specifically, and any good millennial organization, we started on social media and our goal was just to provide daily encouragement for those that were experiencing the same pain more. Yeah. Which is a good start. It's for sure. It's, it really was. But we didn't stop there. We didn't stop there. We went into leading weekend retreats for moms that had been through pregnancy loss or infant loss, and we started that next march at Lin Castle. Oh. Which is where we both worked. Cool. Yeah. So it was sweet. It's a just to be there. It's a great, it is. And we had 30 women show up that first year, which was just incredible. It's huge. It's huge. And we felt like the content and the programming of this weekend was just God breathed from the welcome to the departure for every single woman. And we did five years of that women's retreat. Wow. Which is incredible. We started doing couples of retreats and even men's weekend. Yeah. Because they're unfortunately, oh my gosh, the forgotten part of the equation. They're strong. They should be able to handle it, right? And so many times it's I'm so sorry for your loss. Yes. As a mom. Yes. But you lost. But then the dad's Hey, I'm here too. What about me? I'm sure they feel invisible at times. They do. And they do. Yeah. And they grieve so differently. Yeah. And so sometimes it is more easily publicly accepted for the women to be openly grieving. Versus the man where they have to be strong for their wife. No, you lost a child too. Yeah. And if we think that there's a lack of hope filled resources for women, there's nothing out there for men. So for men, started in 2022. And did your husband like head that up? He did. He did love that. And. Because I believe, in our faith that God has appointed me to be Ryan's partner. And God has appointed specifically Ryan to be my partner. He's my help mate. If we are built on a Christian marriage, then we, our marriage is a strand of three chords. Yeah. God, Ryan and me. And we are woven together, and I, we made a covenant before God to do that. Exactly that. And if he is my helpmate, then what does it look like to grieve myself right. In my own mind and my own spirit, but yet with my husband and support him knowing that he's grieving too, and so being able to speak to that is just, we're so grateful to be able to do that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So what started as weekend retreats? LED into monthly digital support groups where we host women and men. Separately from all over the world. Wow. Which is incredible. Wow. It's a free link that, that they can just join the Zoom call and we usually have topics, guest speakers or just certain things that allow people just to open up and share what their experiences are and to not necessarily give advice, but just share what, how they did it. Yeah. Because that gives others encouragement too, to say no, I've been through the loss of five of my kids, gosh, and I'm still breathing. That's a miracle. Like I'm still standing. Yeah. I'm still proclaiming God's goodness. Even though what we've been through, and not only that, you're not in the corner just letting life happen to you, you're helping other people to get through it as well. Yeah. Which is huge. Like you've truly taken this really hard and just really sucky thing, for lack of better words that happened to you and you turned it into something. That really could and is changing the world. Like really, your reach is all over the world and it's just crazy. Because I think our reaction whenever something really bad or hard happens is to cower. Yeah. And retreat and feel poor me. Why me? I can't do anything about this. And we shut down. Yeah. And so to be able to open up and say, no, we don't have to shut down. Let's do this together. Yeah. There's a better way. Yeah. That's just huge and it's gonna continue to be huge for so many people. Grief is one of those things that you can't just sweep under the rug. No. There's only one way through it, and it's through it. It's not around it. And so it's so interesting, like just. The amount of people that would say oh, you're so strong. And I'm like, are you kidding me? If you only knew how weak I am. Can I tell you about the days that I'm sitting on my bedside contemplating if life is even continuing? Yeah. Let me tell you about those moments. But yet I, I get to say like grief forces you to go through. This supernatural strength that you don't realize that you have, but yet even more so when you rely on God Yeah. To be your strength. Yeah. He shows up in the supernatural ways that enable you to laugh when all you want to do is crawl in the bed. And he allows you to see things in such a different. Way that you would never see things otherwise in a grieving season. Yeah. Yeah. He allows life to continue. Ooh, so you said five babies in heaven. So we've talked about sweet Whitson. Yeah. And his chubby cheeks. Oh. He's gorgeous. So sweet. But and I know that you did lose another infant. And we'll talk about that, but, so what about the other three? Were, tell us what that looked like. Was it after it was before and after. Okay. So we lost our first baby. It was around 13 weeks gestation. It was a little after a year after Ryan and I were married and. We went in for our very first ultrasound appointment to not find a heartbeat, which is the more common Yes. Situation in a pregnancy loss is like an early first term miscarriage. But that was probably, at the time, the most difficult thing I've ever been through. And we asked a lot of questions like, God, why do you allow, why do you allow this? Why do you allow good things or bad things, rather to happen to good people? Like why is having faith worth it? Yeah. And ask a lot of those questions then. But I think, a lot of people correlate like the farther along you are, the harder it is. That's not always the case. With wits full term pregnancy, like I thought this is the worst thing I could possibly go through. But then we started for known, but then we had another one. Okay. Our son Lennox was born in April of 2020 at 18 weeks gestation. Aw. And it wasn't until we lost Lennox that I just got so mad at God because I was like, we are faithfully serving you. Yeah. We have started this ministry that helps like hundreds of couples that go through the same thing. What is your problem? That is literally. What is running through? Yeah, what was running through my head? I remember standing in my mom's front yard in Ulysses, Kansas, and she had gone through a medical procedure and we were there like taking care of her. And it was a week after we buried Lennox. And I just remember standing in my front yard and just like letting God have it. And when I say letting him have it, I mean like the real raw, what the heck is your problem? Why are you abandoning us? Like why do I feel so abandoned? Like we are faithful, we are serving you. Why do you allow this to continue to be our story? Like I'm beyond hurt? Like you need to show up and prove yourself. Like, why are you're even worth still serving? And shalisa I kid you not not audibly, but I just, oh dang it so clearly felt the Lord say, you can walk away. And I was like, what? Yeah, what not? What you expected to hear was it not what I expected. And it, he was such a gentleman because he's I'm not gonna force you to stay in this relationship. But if you choose to follow me, if you choose me in this moment, I will lead you to healing. I will lead you to wholeness and fullness of life. I'm so proud when my heart was just like shattered. Yeah. And like I felt like God allowed me to see who I would become if I didn't choose him. And this one's super cheesy, but it's a story that I love to tell. We can get cheesy here. That's fine. So I love Disney and you know who doesn't love Disney? Maybe not as much as some people. It's not like an obsession, but like I pictured in my mind, the evil witch from Snow White in the seven door. You remember her? Yep. I don't think I'll ever forget her. Okay. So she's hunch back, mold the nose. The nose ew. But she was like hidden in this shadow of like this hooded cloak consumed with bitterness and jealousy and just like horrible person and. I just knew like I would become that I don't know why I had that vision in my mind, I just believe that God planted that in my mind. It's a totally relatable analogy. Yes. Like I like this is what I would become like. I probably would be single, I probably would be a raging alcoholic. I probably wouldn't have any relationship with Kennedy. And, but he just said, but if you choose me, like we together. We'll get to the next place. Crazy. And he just gave you this vision probably like in a matter of this quick too. And you're just like having all this flash before your eyes. It's insane. It's funny how he works. And he knew exactly what to use to make you not wanna be that. He's okay, you could have this. Yeah. It's your choice. And that's exactly right. And so Lenox, right? Yeah. Was that the last time that you experienced this or did it happen again after that? That was the last, so that was in 2020. And so what did that healing look like? I think getting practical I think is really helpful for people. We went after we lost Lennox, and I was in the height of my anger, like literally middle fingers to the sky. To God in that moment. Our friends, such great friends, they found a a ranch in the middle of nowhere, Colorado, and it was a five day long intensive counseling opportunity, Uhhuh that Ryan and I went to. But that was powerful. It was insane. It was insane Shalisa, because I'm like five days of counseling. That sounds horrible. That sounds horrible. And I think most people would agree. Oh, for sure. And it was the most transformative week probably of my life. Ryan says he watched the anger melt. Oh my gosh. Like just as our marshmallows are melting. Yeah. He watched the anger melt off of me. Oh my gosh. Because I was reintroduced to who Jesus is. Yeah. Not who I thought he was. Like some God on the shelf or your expectation. Yeah. It's no, like the fact that like God is grieving with me. He, yes. Understanding God's sovereignty of like why he allows things to happen is so far beyond my pay grade. But yet his love is evidence. Yeah. Through the entire journey. And then you feel bad because you're down here cursing him when he's sad too. Only he can handle it. Yeah. Yeah. We laugh about most people thinking that experience would be horrible. I love counseling and like I, I do now. But then not the idea of it then. No, totally. Especially when you're in something hard. But I had this season of I need healing. And I wasn't even sure from what, so like I hired a counselor and just the transformation I was able to find, not even knowing why I was walking in there. I'll go to a counselor anytime somebody offers me that. Sign me up. I'm there. Yeah. And then also what you said about retreats and you guys hosting retreats with four known, that's just huge. That's so powerful. The amount of transformation that I have had on retreats or church, women's retreats. And things like that. Yeah I just can't even imagine how comforting and how powerful and how healing it was to the people that got to experience that. So I love that was something you guys did. Totally. I had another question too. So you talked about the monthly zoom calls that you host. Is that something you guys are still actively doing? Yes. Okay, very cool. So we're gonna wanna throw those links into the show notes whenever we're done. Absolutely. I'll get that before we launch the podcast, but that way. People who need that can find it, you know exactly where to go will make it nice and easy for you. Perfect. So the event that I did with you Yes. Gosh, what was that, a y almost a year ago. Almost a year ago. Tell us about that. I always mix the name up. I can never get it right. What name? I don't know what my problem is. So I'm gonna let you tell us what the name of it is and then tell us, are you doing it this year? We are. Okay, good. Because I want the details for that too. Yeah. So we can get people there because I, so I have experienced miscarriage. But not on a scale of a lot of what you're talking about. Yeah. It was really hard and it was a long time ago, and then I had Caleb after. So like I've worked through all of that. But even for me being there. I wasn't expecting it to hit me or for me to have transformation or anything. But being there and being a part of it, just what I felt inside was crazy. Yeah. Like unexpectedly crazy. Yeah. And yeah, I want you to tell people about that. Let's Totally, yeah, let's do that. Thank you for sharing your loss. Yes.'cause one thing that we really encourage people to not do is to compare. Yeah. Because you are not downgrading, right? If, even if you experienced an early loss versus a late term, like we were saying, it's no. Like you had life in you. Yeah. Yeah. And now then you didn't, yeah, but it was crazy too when you said that you were 13 weeks with the one miscarriage that you experienced. I should have been 13 weeks. Wow. With mine. But the baby had only grown to five to six weeks. So I had lost it fairly early. But it was the same thing. I just wasn't feeling, I could feel that I was not pregnant anymore. And it was weird. I don't know how to describe that. Sure. But I just knew something inside me knew. Then I had some spotting and I was like, I think I should probably just go in and get checked. I really didn't expect that was the news I was gonna get. Because it's funny, we joke about me being like a baby making machine because I totally am. You see these baby making hips. Yeah. Fertile myrtle. Totally. So it just never crossed my mind that was actually gonna be my experience. Yeah. And so when it was, that hit me really hard. Kyle was working. I did not know a lot of people in my area at that time.'cause we had just moved back to Fort Worth. So I took my girls with me to my appointment. Wow. So we got to all experience that together. And that was less than what I would've liked to experience for. I didn't expect it. If I would've known that was the news I was gonna be getting, I wouldn't have taken'em. Wow. I didn't know. I really was like, okay, everything's okay. I just need to go get that reassurance. And I didn't, and it was tough and I knew. When the ultrasound lady did it, she like had this look on her face and I'm like, oh, that's not good. And I was like, you can't find anything, hun. And she's I can't tell you. You have to go wait for the doctor. I'm like, just tell me. Just tell me. Which is such a pile of job. Oh my gosh.'cause yes. But they're not allowed to say anything. And I'm sure there's instances where they have, and they were wrong and how crazy is that? But I was just like already prepared for it and it was really awful. But, we did get to experience Caleb after that and I know that God was with us through all of it. I just see it and looking back I don't think I could have enjoyed that. Like I did the experience when I had Caleb and I truly feel that when I was giving Caleb it was a huge gift because I was able to be like, I am gonna love every. Second of this, and I have he's crazy. He's a crazy boy. But I have loved every second of it. Sure. And it's just our experiences in the past shape our view of the future. And yeah. I just try to look at it in that light, but Wow. Yeah. I can relate. I know how hard it is for sure to go through some of that. And I think, in looking at your experience, it's yeah, you never would have wished that your girls would've been with you that day. I don't know if your girls remember that day, but I'm sure what they remember is like watching your mom go through something devastating. Yeah. But yet still having the strength to continue moming. Yeah. And being a wife. Yeah. And living and choosing joy. Yep. I think that is a gift. To our kids, that are living is when they see us go through hard things, whether it's loss or grieving of any sort. Loss of a job, even, not to compare, but like any sort of grief. Grief comes in very many forms. You know that it does, we can either help shape the way, they can look at grief in a healthy way, or we could do it really unhealthily. Yeah. And that is a great example for your kids. Yeah. And for them to see the real and the raw. Because it's real life. Yeah. And I was so glad that you came to that event because not only did our hundreds of people that were there like partake in amazing s'mores, we sold out. I was like, dude. SOS. Three more stores. They were so good. I literally remember having this more. The coconut. The coconut. Did you? The coconut. I love that. Wait on my, I've done that so many times. Like literally my arms here are probably nearly bald. Like the amount of times it's all curled up. So yeah, its. Totally. But it was such a treat because the event itself is called the wave of light. Wave of light. Wave of light. I always wanna throw wings in there. I dunno. I'm like wings of, I don't know. Oh, waves of light. Okay. I love it. Yeah, wave of light. And the wave of light was actually started back in 2002. Where women basically and parents, not just women, but bereaved parents from all over the country would light a candle in honor of a baby remembered in heaven at 7:00 PM in their time zone all across the world, and thus creating a ways of. So cool. The international wave of life, which is amazing. And since 2002, is that what you said? Since 2002. Okay. And so a few years back Allison and I were partnered with a wonderful organization out of Kansas that does a similar event. And we just thought, what would that look like to have and host a Colorado wave of, yeah. For Colorado families, we're so blessed obviously being outdoors most months of the year, and every month, let's be real. But it's a unlike Texas, right? Totally. Totally. But it's such a beautiful event. It's a free remembrance event for families that have gone through pregnancy or infant loss. And we have over 50,000 pink, blue, or white lights. In honor of boys and girls and babies that maybe not have known their gender. We have memorial name signs that parents can purchase. We have a candlelight vigil, a reading of the name ceremony. It's just a beautiful event. Yeah, it was. I, I can attest to that. Thank you. It was a beautiful event. So peaceful. Thank you. Just, I don't know, I just, it, it really filled my heart up. That's awesome. I was really happy to be a part of that. That's good. And Kelsey said too if you come out to that, it's a free event. Yeah. So you don't even have to pay anything to come out. You can purchase a memorial sign with a name of your loss. Lost loved one. And then, I don't know, maybe this year there'll be s'mores. We haven't talked about it. I, we need s'mores. We need SI think everything needs smores. Okay. I'll be there. You tell me the date. And is it gonna be at focus on the family? It's not. So it's going to be at David C. Cook this year. Okay. Which we're so excited about. They are a huge publishing company. Do they put out things internationally? Cool. But we're so excited to partner with them and wonderful organizations like Save the Storks Life Network, tons of local churches. A lot of great pro-life organizations. Cool. Is Trace gonna partner? Hopefully, yeah, hopefully. Yeah. You have connections. We, it's like we do, but I don't, I can't take advantage of those connections, can you though? No, we're hopeful to, we're in the beginning. Phases of all the sponsorships and whatnot. Yeah. But we're so blessed each year to not only have great partners that help us put on this amazing event, but just the people that show up. Like the people that show up are the people that are meant to be there. Yeah. And just the stories that we have heard. Yeah. From people that have attended, not like you. That have either recently been through loss or perhaps maybe they went through loss years ago and they just maybe felt like there's a piece of their heart that has left to really heal. Yeah. And to have an in-person event for families to feel supported, like we have a resource fair where local organizations can come and like. Bring counseling resources. That's awesome. And just different resources to really help people on their journey. Yeah. Probably things that some people don't even realize are out there. Which is huge. That's cool. That's really cool. I think you've told your story beautifully. Yeah. These so that's so good. It'll caramelize like here that, which one is that? This is the vanilla. Oh, so our marshmallows don't catch on fire, but it'll caramelize and then the insides liquid is like creme brulee, which is one of my favorites. Oh my goodness. Yes. It's so good. Is now a really bad time to tell you that I'm diabetic. Oh, you made these choices. I absolutely did. And you know what? I came prepared. Oh my God. I came fully prepared. I took some insulin. Mom, just so you know, I took some insulin before all of this. You're responsibly enjoying your s'mores. Oh, okay. So now it's probably not a good time for me to tell people that I'm like quite certain I'm pre-diabetic. You know what? I can't give up everything I enjoy in life. Okay. I quit drinking. I like coffee and some s'mores. There's nothing wrong with that. It's too much. Everything in moderation. Yeah. Three, that's moderation. You don't do this every day. No. No. Yeah, that's moderation. Totally. What's your favorite smore? Oh gosh. I had to ask, so it changes, but chocolate peanut butter's one of my favorite marshmallows. And then one of my favorite combinations of s'mores is fudge stripes and toasted coconut and a caramel filled Ghirardelli.'cause it's kinda like a Samoa Girl Scout cookie job. It, yeah. So good. But also, I have one called Buttered Sprinkle, and then I'll toast that one and just eat it only on graham cracker, no chocolate or anything. And it's like heavenly. It's almost like a Rice Krispy treat. Oh my God. Yeah it's so good. You know what we call it? Diabetes. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. We need the little cat meme. The little white cat. Have you seen that? Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. And that older guy that used to do the, yes. The commercials. The commercial. Yeah. Diabetes. That's what he, I think that's the voice that they put over the cat. Oh my. It's like the white grumpy cat. My kids. Yeah. My kids. Oh man. I lost my little marshmallow. Okay. I have to tell you though. Okay. A little idea. One thing that we did recently while camping. We use Oreos instead of Graham Crush. I take Oreos sometimes, and I also have a marshmallow called eo that's a vanilla marshmallow. Rolled in, crushed Oreos. So I can make all your dreams come true. My dreams have this come true. Did you see my what my Instagram post the other day, I had a Krispy Kreme donut and I put a black forest cherry marshmallow in it. And I like s shoved the skewer through it. Skewer whatever That skewer my Kansas screw. Yeah. Yeah, that too, for sure. Skewer the skewer there. But I roasted it over this exact fire pit. Okay. And it was like, so the donut caramelized,'cause the sugars and the glaze. Oh my gosh. Gosh. It was so dangerous. And I love donuts. It was, it's bad. It was a few days ago. It's fine. That sounds amazing. That sounds amazing. Y'all these, this is the best smores. Literally these are the best smores. Thank you. Her homemade marshmallows, like you just can't even touch that. Seriously. So I'm so proud of you. Thank you. And for doing this podcast and like getting out of the boat. Thank you. When God said to get out the boat, yeah I did. Took me a while, but I did. Hey, it was sinking. I was like, take the water, lemme get out. I put on my snorkel for a little bit. To carry your mask first. Yes. Totally. Totally. So it's something I always like to ask people too. You've been through so much and here we are able to talk about this, but what's something you're proud of yourself for? Oh, that's a really good question. It's a hard one sometimes, so feel free to think about it. We can edit out the dead space, what s'mores and come back to it. Love it. That's a really good question. Wow. So before going into ministry full time I was in bridal. I did bridal. Retail managing bridal stores for, it was over 15 years, dang, believe it or not. It was, I loved it. Like I fell in love with it, working for a bridal designer in San Diego, and I just loved it, loved the industry, loved a, allowing a woman to feel the most beautiful that she's ever felt like on their wedding day. And to be a small part of that is. Was just really great and special. But I think I always had the whole like, am I meant to do this? And so I do feel that like when God gave us the vision of for known, this is looking a little saggy. Droopy, like I can't turn it anymore. Like Ryan, my husband was like, you can do this. He spoke. It's such life into me that I had never really have received before from anyone. And even more like God wanted to speak that over me. Yeah. And into me. And so I'm not just proud of the nonprofit that we have created, but I'm proud in the way that like Allison and I have worked through the junk Yeah. Of creating. The junk of, dare I say, ministry. Yeah. Because that's hard. Yeah, like realizing that we're not gonna be everyone's cup of tea, right? Like we will always be a faith-based ministry like. Having the word ministries on the end of for known has kept us from entering a through a lot of doors. A lot of doors. Yeah. I can imagine. But they are ones that I believe so wholeheartedly that God is up preventing Yeah. And allowing, yep. Yep. Like the prayer of god open the right doors and close the right doors, and if we just still stay the path and keep trusting him he's going to provide, he is going to provide, like why would he allow us to come this far, give us this vision and not provide that next. Right step. Yeah. And so I'm just proud of us, like for honestly getting out of the boat, but like doing the hard work, because this is the work that God has called us to do and we believe that. Yeah. And so choosing to put on that armor Yeah. Every single day choosing to say God, you protect our reputation. Like you go before us. Show us the doors that you want us to walk through. He has kept us from some partnerships that probably would have been, probably have gone south. But then he's opened doors to allow us to go into hospitals and teach healthcare professionals how to provide better bereavement care to Oh, that's. Huge parents should have experienced perinatal loss. Like I never thought that would've happened. Yeah. Five years ago. Yeah. I never would've even pictured Wow. That we would be in secular hospitals. Like what a gift that is. Yeah, sticking it out, doing the hard work I know that sounds interesting, but I'm so proud of us. You should be.'cause I jokingly say I've had, I have many degrees from YouTube University. I never went to school for. Non-profit work, but yet I've learned so much about, the non-profit world. Yeah, I bet. But it's not easy, but it's a choice. Like it's it's a choice for sure. Not easy, but worth it. Yes, totally. Yes. I love that so much. For sure. Bike time. You guys should absolutely be proud of that. You guys are doing it. Some people start and they're like, okay, this is hard. I can't do this. I'm not meant for this. And they quit. And probably the majority of people that start things like this probably feel that way. And it would be easier to not be faith-based. Yeah. It would be easier, to say no. Your hope like is comfort, like you will never heal, you'll always be grieving this loss. That would be the easier way to do it. But it's no, when you put in that work of grief and lamenting. And allowing God to heal you. I believe that is possible. Yeah. It's not that you're forgetting, no, but you are moving forward. It's the vision or the difference between moving on versus moving forward. You're never gonna move on, you're never gonna forget. You're never going to get holding could you? You're not expected to. No. But yet, what a stinking hope I have that one day. When I take my last breath that I'm gonna wake up holding him like yeah. Seeing my savior. And then these five little kids are gonna run behind him and they're gonna know me and I'm gonna know them and there will be no questions. Because all will be perfect. Oh my gosh. Like what? That hope changes everything. So can we just imagine if, whenever that does happen, if. Jesus had on one of those papoose things and Witson was in the front. Oh my gosh. And it was in the back, like on him, like climbing, pile up climbing all over Jesus. Oh my gosh. We're not incredible. I think it's possible, and I totally believe Jesus has a sense of humor. So if you're listening right now, get that. That's so funny. That's awesome. Kelsey, thank you so much for being so open and just sharing all of that. I really do believe that somebody on the other side of this, whether they hear it when we first launch, or whether it's 20 years from now, yeah, maybe not that long. But I. I really do believe that it's gonna help somebody, and I think that's why we should get out there and share these stories, and that's why I created this podcast, so I love it. Thank you for the opportunity. Oh my gosh. Yeah. I think that, life is going to happen to us, right? It's inevitable. We are either walking into a storm. We're walking outta a storm or in between storms. Yeah. As Christine Kane always says. And so when it happens, like to be in good Christian community right. To have those friends that are gonna say I'm gonna walk through this with you. Yeah. It can really change the trajectory. Oh, truly. Truly. Yeah. Yeah. I believe that. And then so before we wrap up, one last thing I like to do is just. Tell people not exactly why I invited you to be here, but just what I see in you and what I truly appreciate about you. So I invited you to come on because you just exude hope and you just have this radiant light about you. Seriously, I think it's something that anybody who comes into contact with you can see. Wow. I have never experienced a bad attitude from you. You are just like so happy and go lucky and, we all go through pain, but the amount of pain that you've gone through and having the hope and being able to say no, I can still laugh. Just like you have oh my gosh. You are just providing so much hope to people and doing this through your events and through for known and like all of it and hearing more of your story. Today I am just. Blown away by the woman that you are. I feel so blessed to have you in my life. Thank you. And I'm so glad that God brought us back together oh, ditto. Yeah. This is so fun. It is. This is so fun. And thank you. I think Joy, when it is rooted in where joy comes from, like when it is rooted in love. It's eternal. It's so much bigger than just us. Yeah. And like happiness, my happiness is fleeting, but like joy is so rooted. Yes. And it's an honor to share that with people. Yeah. True. While you do it well, thank you. Thank you. I'm so touched. Yes, I'm honored to be here and eating these amazing smores. Cheers. I'm glad to have somebody to do it with. Cheer I can cheer you with my Perfect. Yeah, I ate all the rest of mine. I really haven't ate much today. This is my lunch. Lunch of champions or early dinner I guess it would be, but. Anyways, we will make sure to have all the info that Kelsey's given for wave of Hope because I tried to change it to, oh, what wave of light? You're good. Wave of light. See, it was wings and then I tried to change it to waves and then there was hope and there was light. All of it. It's all of it. You never know. We might have wings this year. Maybe. Maybe there'll be birds. I'm gonna wear wings. I love it. I love it. Anyways, we will. Get you all the info you need for that. We'll get you all the info that you need for four known and for the Zoom calls that they do, any resources you need. And if you're listening and you just don't know where to go or you need something but you're not sure what, reach out. Like I'm always an open book. I'm always happy to help you find whatever resources I can. I know Kelsey feels the same way. Don't be weird. No, I'm just kidding. Don't be weird. People can also text us. And this is super cool. This is one of my favorite things that we do. If you're at home and you're going through an active miscarriage or you just left the hospital with empty arms, whatever that looks like, you can actually text our team. You can text the number four, the word love altogether for love. 7 1 9 6 2 6 8 4 8 6 and you can sign up to receive daily text of encouragement. That's so cool. Which is just so needed. Yeah. In a grieving season. Or you can text the word for help altogether to find practical help. Yeah. In the moment of loss. Yeah. So that's huge. Don't be afraid to do that if you need it. That's why it's there. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Alright, thanks for joining us for another episode. And make sure you come back next. Time for more s'mores, more laughs, and more stories. Have a good rest of your day. Amazing. If you made it all the way through this conversation. Thank you. Thank you for holding space. Thank you for honoring Kelsey's story and maybe most of all, thank you for honoring your own. Whether you have experienced loss firsthand or you love someone who has, I hope you felt seen safe and reminded that you don't have to grieve alone in this episode if it stirred something in you. Or if you're walking through a hard season and you're looking for peace, purpose, or just a place to start healing, I want you to know I'm here. You can find links for, for known ministries, for known men, and all the resources we talked about in the show notes. And if you're ready for mentorship or community that helps you reconnect with your worth and walk through healing with God at the center, I'd love to walk with you. Until next time, keep breathing. Keep healing and keep holding onto the truth. You are worthy. You are seen, you are never walking alone. I'll see you next week on The Worthy Woman, rooted in Rising. Okay.