Medical Series S1E3 : Sleep Affects Everything: A Neurologist Breaks It Down”

This Bonus Episode is now available to everyone in celebration of Black History Month!!

In our latest episode of Narcolepsy Navigators’ Medical Series, we sit down with Dr. Chris Allen, board-certified pediatric neurologist and sleep medicine specialist, founder of Quality Sleep and Neurology PC in Michigan.

Dr. Allen brings both medical expertise and lived experience to the conversation, sharing his own 21-year journey living with obstructive sleep apnea while breaking down why sleep disorders are among the most misunderstood and underdiagnosed medical conditions today.

We cover everything from narcolepsy misdiagnosis and pediatric sleep disorders to the dangerous myth that snoring is “normal,” the real connection between sleep and heart health, and why CPAP is not the only treatment option for sleep apnea.

This episode is a must-listen for patients, parents, clinicians, and anyone who has ever been told, “You’re just tired.”

Topics Covered

• Why sleep medicine is still under-taught in medical schools
• Dr. Allen’s personal experience with sleep apnea
• Why snoring is a medical red flag, not a joke
• Narcolepsy vs depression vs hypersomnia
• Pediatric sleep disorders and missed diagnoses
• ADHD-like symptoms caused by poor sleep in children
• Restless legs, ferritin levels, and iron deficiency
• The link between sleep, heart disease, and blood pressure
• CPAP alternatives and emerging treatments
• Hustle culture and why sleep deprivation hurts productivity
• Representation and trust in healthcare

Why This Episode Matters

Sleep disorders don’t just affect energy — they affect memory, mood, heart health, development, and lifespan. Dr. Allen explains why untreated sleep conditions quietly damage the body over time and why awareness can literally save lives.

About the Guest

Dr. Christopher J. Allen, MD is a board-certified pediatric neurologist and sleep medicine specialist, founder of Quality Sleep and Neurology PC. Known online as Sleep Dr. Chris, he is a leading voice in accessible sleep education and a strong advocate for patient-centered care. Above all, Dr. Allen is a devoted family man, proud husband, and father of two—bringing the same passion he holds for his patients to his home and loved ones.

Every child deserves a good night's sleep... Purchase Your Copy of Sweet Dreams Today:  https://www.sleepdrchris.com/

Transcript

Dr Chris 11_08_25
[00:00:00] 
Introduction and Host Greetings
[00:00:00] Kerly: Hi everyone. Welcome to Narcolepsy Navigators. I'm Kerly your host. I have narcolepsy type one, 
[00:00:09] Sakhara: and I'm Sakhara your cohost. And I have narcolepsy type one as well. 
Meet Dr. Chris: Pediatric Neurologist and Sleep Specialist
[00:00:14] Kerly: And today we're here with Dr. Chris and this is a part of our medical series.
[00:00:22] Sakhara: Here's a little to know about Dr. Chris. Dr. Chris Christopher J. Allen MD is a board certified pediatric neurologist and sleep me medicine specialist as founder of Quality Sleep and Neurology PC in.
[00:00:48] Dr. Chris : Saginaw, michigan. Don't feel bad. Everybody does that. So it's 
[00:00:52] Sakhara: Michigan.
[00:00:55] Sakhara: He treats both children and adults with sleep disorders [00:01:00] and neurological conditions. A strong advocate for accessible sleep science and non CPA treatments. Dr. Allen shares. His shares his expertise through podcasts, social media, and collaborations with organizations like Women Heart, to highlight the vital link between Sleep and Heart Health.
Dr. Chris's Journey into Sleep Medicine
[00:01:26] Dr. Chris : Well, first of all, ladies. Thank you for letting me be on here and just a little bit more, you know about me. And so again I'm a sleep medicine doctor. I'm also a pediatric neurologist. I love neurology, but sleep is my passion. I'm involved with a lot of things and, you know, people in the social media world know me as sleep, Dr. Chris. So if you put in sleep, Dr. Chris you'll see me there and you know, I'm on any place where you can get, on social media, four. And so I love taking care of my patients. Again, as you guys said, I am like the c only [00:02:00] physician of my own, um, practice. I've been doing this for a year and a half now. Um, having my own practice, which has been, it's been amazing. And yeah. And so I'm just glad to be here. Love to talk about sleep.
[00:02:12] Dr. Chris : I can do it for hours. We won't be doing it for hours, but I could. 
[00:02:18] Kerly: That's good. Thank you and welcome. We're glad to have you here.
[00:02:26] Sakhara: Okay, so our first topic is diagnosis and expertise. First question, what led you to specialize in both pediatric neurology and sleep medicine? 
[00:02:44] Dr. Chris : I love that question. Well, the thing is, is that I was a pediatric neurologist first, and one thing about neurology, I love looking at someone's body and seeing the part of the brain it comes from, and it's just, you know, amazing for [00:03:00] that.
[00:03:00] Dr. Chris : And being a neurologist, it's, it's really hard because sometimes I deal with disorders where people will say, well, there's nothing you can do about it. But those patients still need help. And so from seizures, from developmental delay or even genetic disorders, I take care of them and able to help 'em out.
[00:03:18] Dr. Chris : And that's something that I really, really appreciate and I really love doing. 
Understanding Sleep Apnea: Dr. Chris's Personal Experience
[00:03:25] Dr. Chris : Now, it's funny with sleep medicine I tell this story all the time and it, and is, this is taking you into Dr. Allen's office. You know, I usually tell them this is like, not only my, your doctor, I have obstructive sleep apnea.
[00:03:36] Dr. Chris : And I've been treated for the last 21 years. 
[00:03:39] Speaker 4: Wow. And 
[00:03:40] Dr. Chris : the thing is, is that I learned about sleep apnea while I was in med school and as a lecture. And it's funny, my girlfriend at the time when they were talking and she was laughing at me, my friends were laughing at me. It's like, you know, that's you, right?
[00:03:54] Dr. Chris : I'm like, no, it's not. And then, um, 
[00:03:58] Kerly: they recognized it before [00:04:00] you. 
[00:04:00] Dr. Chris : Yeah. And you think at that moment I would've been like, wow. I really need to get a sleep study. Nope. What? What I, what got me to say, you know what, maybe I'll get a sleep study. I walked the same day. It's funny, the same day I walked out of that class and I looked on this board and it's like, are you a male that snores and is tired and you can be part of this research for money?
[00:04:22] Dr. Chris : And I'm like, Ooh, this is something I can do for money. And so when I did it, I had the sleep study and they're like. I remember they put the, like all the stuff on me for the research and then I remember everyone hover over me when I, and I fell asleep and then I woke up and they're all still hovering over me the next morning.
[00:04:40] Dr. Chris : They're like, yeah, you got it. You got sleep apnea. And so being treated for obstructive sleep apnea, I just love the fact of what it did for me. It took me three months to figure that out. 'cause I went on a trip and the way I use it, I use CPA therapy. I took, I didn't take my CPAP with me and I felt horrible.[00:05:00] 
[00:05:00] Dr. Chris : And I'm like, you know what? Maybe there's something to the CPA therapy. And the funny thing about it is that. I didn't even know what sleep doctors were 'cause I was using CPAP through residency and even training and then I found out you could be a sleep doctor. I'm like, what? I thought, like pulmonologist, just, just do it.
[00:05:17] Dr. Chris : But you can be any part of any practice and just do a sleep medicine fellowship. And so, even though I fell in love with neurology during my neurology training, I did a I did a rotation. Where I got sleep medicine and doing that, I was like, I had that same feeling with, neurology. I was like, I could do this for the rest of my life.
[00:05:35] Dr. Chris : And so that's why I went into sleep medicine. I love it. And the thing is, is that I can empathize with my patient knowing how it feels to be tired, knowing how it feels, not to have quality sleep. And so that's why I did that. 
[00:05:50] Kerly: That's so interesting. I have a few questions. 
[00:05:53] Dr. Chris : I'm. 
The Importance of Sleep Medicine
[00:05:54] Kerly: Why did you think that only pulmonologist did it?
[00:05:59] Dr. Chris : The [00:06:00] hard thing in the, in the United States, we really, they're really good. They're getting better about talking about sleep now. 
[00:06:08] Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. 
[00:06:08] Dr. Chris : But back then, throughout my whole four years of medical school, there was only one lecture about sleep. And so then you hear about sleep or sleep apnea and mating narcolepsy.
[00:06:20] Dr. Chris : And then after that you didn't know, and they wouldn't even say that, oh, you know, sleep doctors, you can do a sleep medicine fellowship and even to fill the sleep medicine, it's one of the younger fields. And so that's one of the big pre reason why people won't know about it. But initially, most of pulmonologists or lung doctors, those are the ones that were naturally doing it initially, but it goes across all specialties, which is amazing about it because you have different minds and aspects that can go to that.
[00:06:50] Dr. Chris : And you know, a lot of people don't know about it. And then unfortunately, a lot of people don't know about sleep medicine. And that's why, you know, I'm a sleep doctor, to put myself out there, to make sleep [00:07:00] cool. And that's why I do social media as well, where people can hear about that because. A lot of people, the hardest part about my job, I gotta talk to things about people.
[00:07:10] Dr. Chris : What happens when they're unconscious? So with like sleep apnea or sleep disorder, I have to talk to them to figure out like what's happening, but they're sleep. So you have your helpful, or like when you have central disorders of hypersomnia such as narcolepsy, you have to be specialized because a lot of of my patients.
[00:07:30] Dr. Chris : And even colleagues and friends of mine that have narcolepsy, it's been misdiagnosed or saying that it's depression and you know, it's good to know about that. 
[00:07:40] Kerly: Yeah, a hundred percent. I like what you said there about having a partner that it's so true. I would not probably have realized I had sleep apnea.
[00:07:50] Kerly: Because I already had narcolepsy diagnosed so early, but then I just thought my narcolepsy was getting worse. 
[00:07:55] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm. And then 
[00:07:56] Kerly: I was dating someone at the time and he just kept making excuses why he couldn't stay over. [00:08:00] And I just thought, you know, I'm shut up off this nonsense. And he goes, oh my God, you make this noise in bed.
[00:08:05] Kerly: I was like, you don't have to make up stuff. You just, if you don't wanna stay off, you just tell, you don't have to make up stories. And then, um, one night I had a shock. And it threw me outta of the bed and I broke the bedside table. And then I realized that jolting thing that he was saying that was happening to me, that I was swearing that nothing had happened.
[00:08:26] Kerly: That's what it was when I called him and I was told him, this is to come and have another sleep study. That was the time I had my second speech study done. And then I got diagnosed with restless leg and and sleep apnea. Yeah. And I said to the neurologist, okay. When I was 18, you never said it was possible to get anything else.
[00:08:46] Kerly: And he said to me, yes, if you have one sleeping disorder, sometimes you can get another. And I was like, oh, nice to know. Years later. And then, you know, no, the 
[00:08:53] Dr. Chris : funny, the funny part about that, I spent a lot of years training and being a part of [00:09:00] being a sleep doctor. You wish that like you can get one diagnosis and that's it.
[00:09:05] Dr. Chris : Mm-hmm. But unfortunately it doesn't keep you safe from anything else. And so, you know, and I always tell patients that, and like, especially if they have narcolepsy, like it doesn't keep you safe from other disorders and it's like, oh, they're tired. Oh, you know, let me titrate their narcolepsy medication.
[00:09:22] Dr. Chris : But no, I still ask those simple questions. 'cause I always joke, you know, I'm not a sleep apnea doctor, I'm a sleep doctor, so I have to look at every aspect of your sleep. And even with restless leg syndrome, you know, or periodic ness asleep, is that fancy way of saying that you're moving your legs in your sleep.
[00:09:38] Dr. Chris : Mm-hmm. Um, but then the restless leg syndrome is that urge that you gotta move your legs. Yeah. Especially in the evening. I, I, I equate it to people. You know, when you have to go to the bathroom, you have an urge like, oh, I gotta go. Sometimes it can be like that with your legs. Like, I have to move my legs.
[00:09:53] Dr. Chris : And then just like when you go to the bathroom after you really have to go, you get that relief like, oh, okay, that feels so good. 
[00:09:58] Dr. Chris : That's what can [00:10:00] happen with restless leg syndrome too, and sometimes it's just hard to talk about or to explain and Yeah. 
[00:10:07] Kerly: Have the language. 
[00:10:08] Dr. Chris : Yeah. Well, no. Yeah, well, just not even the language, just even also like from the patient saying like.
[00:10:14] Dr. Chris : I just, I can't explain it, but my legs full a certain weight and it's worse in the evening. Mm-hmm. That, that makes me ask those questions like, oh, well, do you have life Restlessly syndrome? Well, I ask, I lead up to it. I don't say, do you have it? Because everyone's like, well, my legs restless, but there's specific questions that you ask.
[00:10:32] Dr. Chris : So for example, like that urge to move your legs at night, or once you move it, you get that relief. You like little things, you know, like that. Or even when you're sleeping, if you do kick your legs or jolt your legs, like you were saying. 
[00:10:45] Kerly: And you restless leg can also affect other parts of the body because I found that it felt like something was.
[00:10:51] Kerly: Like an insect or something was inside of my skin and it was crawling in my arms and 
[00:10:57] Dr. Chris : Oh yeah, the creepy crawly sensation. And I [00:11:00] know they call it restless leg syndrome, but it can happen in other extremities too, so it can happen in your arms. And it's funny because like it happens in children. A lot and sometimes it's hard to explain for kids and sometimes they'll call it like, I got ants in my pants.
[00:11:13] Dr. Chris : Or Ah, it feels like if my legs feel hot. Or they'll draw a picture and draw, draw like fire on their legs because they're trying to refill. And I think that's the benefit of being asleep, doctor, because you know, some of my colleagues, they're aware of it, but like I go in depth to make sure. Mm-hmm. 
[00:11:31] Kerly: That's great.
[00:11:34] Kerly: Car. 
Diagnosing Sleep Disorders in Children vs. Adults
[00:11:35] Sakhara: How do you approach diagnosing sleep disorders differently in children versus adults? 
[00:11:43] Dr. Chris : What I do for both patients, I give a comprehensive exam and we talk about everything about sleep. And as I was saying earlier, sometimes it's hard for children to express how they feel. Mm-hmm. And so, you know, I have to have, you know, a good, nuanced way.
[00:11:57] Dr. Chris : And what's easier, because they might not, [00:12:00] they, their parents usually will see them sleep and so they can answer a question. And for example, I look for all sleep disorders, but example, obstructive sleep apnea, it's different than it is in kids than it is in adults. So for obstructive sleep apnea, I might ask like, well, do they feel like they're hyperactive because symptoms of A DHD.
[00:12:20] Dr. Chris : Can mimic obstructive sleep apnea in kids. And so I ask questions like that or if they are snoring. 'cause sometimes they might not be snoring and just sleep with their head arched in their mouth open and and so, you know, those little questions I'll ask and if they're a restless sleeper tossing and turning.
[00:12:41] Dr. Chris : And so I look at that also during their exam. I look into their mouth because. With obstructive sleep apnea in children, small kids, small airways. And so if you have like your tonsils and they're a little, they're enlarged, or even your adenoids, which you can't see from someone's mouth, you have to [00:13:00] literally use a tube to go down there.
[00:13:01] Dr. Chris : And usually the ear, nose, and throat doctors will take a look at that to see. Or you can use, use certain scans to see that as well. Then they might have, obstructive sleep apnea. And that's when I would do the sleep disorder. And then, as I was mentioning earlier, if they are tired during the daytime or if they are very restless or moody.
[00:13:22] Dr. Chris : So I ask those questions and then it comes with a comprehensive exam to look at that too as well. And so what the parent says, but also what the child says is really important as well. 
[00:13:33] Kerly: Hmm.
[00:13:37] Kerly: So you, you know what you're saying for the children. So you, do you about their drawing, do you get them to draw sometimes to help with the expressing the 
[00:13:46] Dr. Chris : um, yes. Uh, I'll have 'em draw or just see how and what words will they put it. Because you know, even though like they might not say, yes, I feel this creepy t crawly sensation that's going all the way up to my leg, [00:14:00] especially in the evening doctor, they might not say that.
[00:14:02] Dr. Chris : Yeah, yeah. So they might say, my legs feel weird at night. I'm like, oh, let's talk about that. Yeah. Well, they feel weird and they feel like this itchy feeling. Oh, it. What happens when we relax? Like, oh, it feels a little bit better. So like, trying to figure that out. Oh, okay. And then sometimes, yeah, I will have 'em like, well draw a pictures.
[00:14:19] Dr. Chris : Show me how you feel. And you know, kids love to draw pictures. Mm-hmm. And I wish, I wish more adults, I might do that with my adult patients. I was like, you know, why don't you draw a picture of how you feel? Because right now you're not telling me, 
[00:14:30] Kerly: yeah, you should try. It does actually.
Common Misconceptions About Sleep Disorders
[00:14:37] Sakhara: What are some common misconceptions about sleep disorders that you've encountered in your practice? 
[00:14:45] Dr. Chris : Uh, you know, it's funny I don't know if I have time to talk about all of them, so I'll give you the most common ones. Well, one, I tell this to everybody. I even say this on social media.
[00:14:58] Dr. Chris : Snoring [00:15:00] is not normal. Mm-hmm. And a lot of people, if they see s someone snoring, they're thinking, oh wow, they're really sleeping deep. Mm-hmm. It's like, no, when, and I tell people this in my clinic, you know, you fall asleep, all the muscles in your body relax the muscles in the back of your throat. So that's your mouth in the back of your throat when you're awake.
[00:15:19] Dr. Chris : Airway's open, air's going in and out, but muscles relax right in the back to get small. So when you're sleeping and breathing in, this is the sound people hear. That's how snoring is happening and that's 
[00:15:31] Speaker 4: not 
[00:15:32] Dr. Chris : normal. And sometimes with obstructive sleep apnea, it can relax some more. Then all of a sudden airways closed.
[00:15:38] Dr. Chris : So no oxygen is going to your heart and your brain. That is dangerous. So if you're snoring, snoring means you gotta ask the question. Now, if you're snoring, does that mean you have a sleep disorder? Not necessarily, but it means that you should ask those questions. And so that's one bus misconception too.
[00:15:58] Dr. Chris : And the thing is, is that you [00:16:00] need seven to nine hours to sleep. A lot of people feel like, oh, you know, I can get five hours of sleep and I'm fine. And I believe them. I believe that they think they're fine, but Mr. Sandman wants his money and how you pay him is by sleeping. And even if you don't have a sleep disorder, that can still lead to disorders like obstructive sleep apnea.
[00:16:20] Dr. Chris : It can lead to like high blood pressure, diabetes and stroke. And even with obstructive sleep apnea, it makes those worse. But if you don't have obstructive sleep apnea and not getting the rec recommended amount of sleep, it'll still lead to those disorders as well. And then another one if you fall asleep and you're getting the recommended amount of sleep and you wake up and you're still tired, then a further investigation should go.
[00:16:48] Dr. Chris : You should talk to your sleep doctor. You talk to your provider to get information. And if your provi primary provider is like. I don't, he's like, people are tired. No. If you're getting [00:17:00] the recommended amount of sleep and you're still tired, that should open doors to answer other questions. And that's when you get a sleep professional involved because we go through the gambit of asking those questions to make sure that you don't have another disorder.
[00:17:13] Dr. Chris : And at the end of the day, unfortunately, a lot of people will get diagnosed with like, oh, this might be depression. It might not be. It might be a sleep disorder, it might be a disorder, a central disorder of hypersomnia. For example, narcolepsy type one or type two, or idiopathic hypersomnia. And that's a fancy way of saying that, you know, it's not an narcolepsy, but somehow your body is still tired after a recommended amount of sleep.
[00:17:39] Dr. Chris : And so those are some of the big misconceptions about it. And the thing is, and one more, with obstructive sleep apnea, a lot of people. Might know a little bit about obstructive sleep apnea, but everyone knows about the CPAP and everyone knows about CPAP and I always tell patients and that come to my office, there's more than one [00:18:00] way to treat obstructive sleep apnea.
[00:18:01] Dr. Chris : Mm-hmm. I have A-C-P-A-P myself. I love my CPAP, but it doesn't work for everybody. And depending on the severity, there are many different ways. There's medication, there's a mandibular advancement device, there's myofascial therapy. Uh, malfunctional therapy that can happen, uh, and help you. Um, so there's many ways.
[00:18:23] Dr. Chris : It's definitely based on the severity, but I do like starting with CPAP therapy first because we know that it works, because it gives us a report to say if your sleep apnea is treated. But there's definitely many ways to treat obstructive sleep apnea. 
[00:18:37] Sakhara: Yeah, when I, when I, before I got diagnosed with narcolepsy, they thought I had sleep apnea, so I tried, the CPAP machine, you know, 'cause I was born premature, I had a trach and everything, so I have a narrow airway, all that. But I tried the CPAP and I felt you know, when I was sleeping, I felt like I was [00:19:00] suffocating. You know, when the air would go in, it felt so like. Forceful, and I, a lot of times at night I would just rip it off because I felt, felt like I was suffocating.
[00:19:16] Sakhara: So I just kind of stopped using, stopped using it. But 
[00:19:19] Dr. Chris : yeah, and I've heard that so many times, so many times, and I, and that's why I'm always big on people telling people that there's more than one way to treat obstructive sleep apnea. That's one thing. And then the second thing is, is it really sleep apnea?
[00:19:34] Dr. Chris : And you know, but you know, if they got you A-C-P-A-P, they must have done a study to show that. And I don't know the severity of it, but the thing is, is that there's still more than one way. And that's when you, and I always tell people, like, throw me under the bus, like if something's wrong and you're like, look, doc, you told me I was going to be alert and it's not working.
[00:19:54] Dr. Chris : What should I do? You know, hold us accountable. And I always tell my patients like, if, if you're not [00:20:00] sleeping well, I'm not doing my job and I like doing my job. 
[00:20:03] Kerly: What about the, um, you know, you mentioned high blood pressure, stroke, heart, those sort of things. 
[00:20:10] Kerly: It's only recently I discovered that there was a link between like C Apia and one of those ones that you, you mentioned.
[00:20:17] Kerly: And I don't know if, I think people don't really know. Or are correlating their sleep illnesses with these other illnesses. And I think maybe if people knew more about that, they would take it more seriously. Or in general, just the public takes sleep more seriously. Like, you know, they're also talking about diet and water and stuff like that, but sleep affects every function in your body.
[00:20:42] Kerly: So I don't know if people knew more that there was more like for these. When you think of heart and stroke and high pressure, those are things that people like. They really don't have that. So I think if maybe if they knew there was a correlation, they would be more serious. I don't know. 
[00:20:57] Dr. Chris : Well, and the thing is, that's where you, [00:21:00] why we're doing things right now.
[00:21:01] Dr. Chris : We're on a platform and we're talking about this, and so people that are listening, it's like, wow, we didn't know. But now they know. And I always tell people that knowledge is power. And here's the thing, when you. Are sleeping and you have a sleep disorder, like obstructive sleep apnea. Your body is literally going through chaos. What does that mean? Your oxygen is going up and down like a rollercoaster that increases stress signals. What do those stress signals do? Those stress signals affect your heart, your lung, your brain. It can increase your blood pressure because it doesn't know what's happening and it's going through chaos.
[00:21:38] Dr. Chris : It's in survival mode. It holds on to calories and like you said, yeah. It's harder for people to lose weight when you are going through that as well. And then, like you said, those stress signals that can make high blood pressure worse. And even with the, um, you know, American Heart Association and then even with [00:22:00] cardiologists, they're saying if you have high blood pressure and it's uncontrolled, you have to look for other disorders like obstructive sleep apnea.
[00:22:06] Dr. Chris : And that's actually one of the treatments which are anti-hypertensive. Using treating your obstructive sleep apnea, even if you are using CPA therapy. And so there's people that know about it, but we're doing it right now. We're talking about it to make sure that people are aware of this so we can't get treated.
[00:22:25] Speaker 5: Yeah.
[00:22:30] Sakhara: Uh,
[00:22:35] Sakhara: okay. 
Alternative Treatments for Sleep Apnea
[00:22:40] Sakhara: I feel like we, we talked about C-P-A-P-A lot and I know that you said that many patients might struggle with CPAP. Is there any alternative treatments that you would recommend? 
[00:22:52] Dr. Chris : Most definitely. As I said, it depends on your severity. If you have mild to moderate obstructive sleep apnea, there's something that's [00:23:00] called the mandibular advancement device, which is the device that you literally like put in your mouth. And it moves your jaw forward to open up airway. There is myofunctional therapy where they treat like to strengthen your, um, soft palate and strengthen those muscles that help with airway and that's what mild to moderate. Now, moderate to severe, you know, you don't have that many options. There is a mandibular advancement device that can treat severe obstructive sleep apnea.
[00:23:32] Dr. Chris : There's even medication because if weight does play a role with it, there is weight loss medication recently Tirzepatide, which is known as Zep bone, where it can treat moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea. And they've done studies with that. That just came out, the trials came out in of 2024 where they talked about it and it's amazing because now there's literally a medication that comes out and there's another medication in the pipeline that's gonna treat obstructive sleep [00:24:00] apnea.
[00:24:00] Dr. Chris : As well. So there's many ways to treat it. There's also surgery that you can do usually that's like my last like ditch effort. But then there's also a procedure that's called the hypoglossal nerve stimulator. A lot of people know it as inspire that what it does, it moves your tongue forth to open up your airway, and that's for moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea.
[00:24:22] Dr. Chris : So there's many treatments for obstructive sleep apnea. A lot of people know about C PAP therapy, but there are other ways, and that's one thing that I love telling people about it, because sometimes they'll see a patient and like, hello, my name is Dr. Allen. They're like, I'm not wearing that CPAP. They don't even say hi.
[00:24:40] Dr. Chris : That's the first thing they'll say to me. And I'm like, I understand that, but let's talk more. And that's why I always tell people that there's more than one way. And actually it takes the pressure off of using C PAP therapy. You know, I tell 'em all the scary stuff about their body going through chaos and their oxygen dipping down.
[00:24:57] Dr. Chris : But then I tell them that like, look, [00:25:00] treating your obstructive sleep apnea, that there's many ways for it. And that's the thing that I love about it. And CPAP is still an option. 'cause even, and I've had patients that tried other ways and they're like, you know what, I can go back to CPAP and try to use it.
[00:25:16] Dr. Chris : And so yeah, there's many ways.
[00:25:24] Sakhara: That is good to know. Um, I know the people that do use the CPAP will, or people that are newly diagnosed will be like, oh, okay, I have, it's not all bad. I have options, you know. Okay. 
Link Between Sleep and Heart Health
[00:25:43] Sakhara: Uh, let's talk about sleep and heart health for a second. How is poor sleep linked to cardiovascular problems? 
[00:25:48] Dr. Chris : And I talked about it a little bit when you're so for example, for obstructive sleep apnea. Your body's going through chaos, those stress signals can increase your blood pressure and also put [00:26:00] stress on your heart.
[00:26:00] Dr. Chris : So that happens as well. There's another disorder called central sleep apnea where your brain forgets to tell your body to breathe, and that's a connection between your heart, your lung, and your brain, and that connection is off kilter where somehow your brain forgets to tell your body to breathe. That plays a role as well, and so that can mess with your heart health as well too.
[00:26:21] Dr. Chris : Then also, like I saying, going back to cardiovascular disease. Not getting that quality sleep and that chaos that makes it worse. And also even with narcolepsy, you know, not having that treated can be concerned for. Um, and there's been some studies to show that it can lead to cardiovascular disease as well to, and so getting quality sleep is essential.
[00:26:45] Dr. Chris : Getting diagnosed with your sleep disorder is essential as well.
[00:26:54] Sakhara: Yeah. Are there any early warning signs that people should watch out for that [00:27:00] link? Sleep issues to heart risk? 
[00:27:04] Dr. Chris : You know, it's funny because that's like the chicken and the egg and like what comes first. Like if you, if you have cardiovascular disease, one of the pillars that you will wanna look at is your pillar of sleep.
[00:27:15] Dr. Chris : Are you getting enough sleep? Are you snoring when you wake up? Do you feel rested? Um, talk to your bed partner. Talk to your bed partner and talk to your bed partner, because they're gonna know more about your sleep than you ever will. And you know, and it's funny, it's real eye-opening for my patients because we'll talk to them and they'll talk to their bed partner.
[00:27:34] Dr. Chris : He is like, wow, I didn't know I slept that bad. I was like, well, you never asked. 
Cardiovascular Health and Sleep Disorders
[00:27:45] Dr. Chris : Now you didn't. And they figure out what's happening. And so that's the biggest thing is like if you do have a cardiovascular disease or any, um, cardiovascular dis um, disorders, look at your sleep and if you are waking up and you're not feeling like you are alert, look at your sleep because it could lead to those [00:28:00] cardiovascular, um, diseases and disorders.
Identifying Sleep Disorders in Children
[00:28:02] Sakhara: How can parents spot early signs of sleep disorders in children? 
[00:28:07] Dr. Chris : And so, and we talked about that for a little bit, but to think about that the same thing. If you see that they're sleeping and they're sleeping with their neck arch or their mouth open, or if they're very congested all the time, you know, that can be a concern for a sleep disorder, like obstructive sleep apnea.
[00:28:28] Dr. Chris : Also, if you notice any pausing and breathing, also take a look at that. Or if they're jerking in the middle of the night as well too. Or if they're restless sleep, or where they're tossing and turning. 'cause sometimes it might not be a breathing disorder, it might be like, you know, periodic limb movements asleep.
Iron Levels and Restless Sleep
[00:28:44] Dr. Chris : Where you can move your legs and your sleep, which will turn into a disorder and they're not getting quality sleep, or it can even be restless sleep syndrome, something new within the sleep medicine world where their kids are just tossing, turning, tossing, turning, and that's linked to iron levels and where you get to check your iron.[00:29:00] 
[00:29:00] Dr. Chris : And not just your iron. The little bank that iron goes into, they call that ferritin. Mm-hmm. And if that's below a certain point, it can still be normal, but below a certain point that can affect their sleep as well. So I would tell yes. 
[00:29:15] Kerly: Repeat it. Say it again. 'cause I keep telling people this. 
[00:29:18] Dr. Chris : I know.
[00:29:19] Dr. Chris : I will say it for the people in the back. 
[00:29:21] Kerly: Yeah. If they don't seep said to me, where did you read this? And I said, oh my God, I am not making it up. This is facts. Right. 
[00:29:28] Dr. Chris : It is fast. So if you low 
[00:29:30] Kerly: for it to go away, I got rid of it in my twenties, so I know that it can get, it's the one disorder that you don't have to live with.
[00:29:38] Kerly: So can we not work on pumping the iron up so we don't have to live with this? 
[00:29:44] Dr. Chris : The funny thing is, is that, you know, becoming a sleep doctor, they drill that into us. We have to have four certifications where they bring up iron, like what level of of iron that you need. And I've been practicing long enough.
[00:29:56] Dr. Chris : They even changed the requirements of looking at their ferritin. [00:30:00] And so for example, you have to check the iron. If there's any problems with restless sleep, especially in children, especially if you have a disorder like restless leg syndrome, like I have it on my order set when I think as soon as someone tells restless leg syndrome, I'm listening while I'm ordering iron to look at that because the hard part is.
[00:30:21] Dr. Chris : Iron can still be normal, but it's the storage of iron. And there's been too many times where I've been able just to treat with iron, don't even have to put 'em on a medication. 'cause there's medications to treat, um, restless leg syndrome or periodic lemon with disorder. But sometimes just fixing the iron will do the trick.
[00:30:40] Dr. Chris : Mm-hmm. And I'll tell patients, I'm not gonna put you in a, I'm not gonna put you in a medication unless I have to. 
[00:30:46] Kerly: That's good. I like that.
[00:30:51] Sakhara: We have a whole list of questions. I'm just looking at them. Okay. On, I'm ready. 
Long-term Effects of Untreated Pediatric Sleep Disorders
[00:30:56] Sakhara: What are the long-term effects if [00:31:00] pediatric sleep disorders go untreated? 
[00:31:04] Dr. Chris : With sleep disorders, especially if you're not getting quality sleep, what happens at night affects your daytime, even in adults to, for efficiency, productivity, that plays a role with children that can play a role as well.
[00:31:22] Dr. Chris : So that can decrease the, your development, decrease your iq, decrease your performance in school, and that's why I'm really big on people getting quality sleep. Especially children. 'cause those are your formative years. And the thing is, is that, for example, for obstructive sleep apnea, you know, the you take it longer.
[00:31:45] Dr. Chris : I mean, if you're not being treated and you get older and older, then you start getting some of the adult symptoms where it might lead to high blood pressure. It might, facilitate you going into obesity. And so I am really big on [00:32:00] people getting treated because you know the hard part about sleep disorders, you might not on the outside see what's happening until years down the road.
[00:32:08] Dr. Chris : Mm-hmm. And a lot of people don't know that and it's a lot of preventative from ha having that happen. That's one thing. Another thing that happens is that when you treat that one, it won't lead into like those disorders, but then you give 'em a chance to fulfill. Whatever that, you know, they need to, and what we were seeing earlier, when you don't get quality sleep, it affects everything.
[00:32:33] Dr. Chris : It can affect your mood, it can affect your health, and a lot of people that might have other comorbidities or, or the disorders, it might make it worse. If someone has a mood disorder or they're depressed, treating their sleep disorder can make them better because they're getting better sleep. Or you know, they have pain and they're going through pain management, treating obstructive sleep, AP acne can help [00:33:00] facilitate pain management.
[00:33:01] Dr. Chris : If they're trying to lose weight, it can help facilitate weight loss. Will they do it by itself? Definitely not, because if that was the case, everyone would have A-C-P-A-P. But there's ways to know that sleep is important and if anything, it's not just important, it's a right that our body has and need.
[00:33:21] Dr. Chris : It's a necessity, just like water. 
[00:33:24] Sakhara: Um, in your bio I mentioned that you work with, uh, is it Woman Heart, the organization? So 
[00:33:33] Dr. Chris : I have worked with them a couple of times. I've done a couple of lectures with them, with Women Heart. Currently I am on the executive board for, um, project sleep, um, where they're a good patient advocate organization and so I definitely help a lot with them as well.
[00:33:51] Dr. Chris : And yeah, I have my hands in a lot of things and I do a lot of podcasts such as this and also on, um, [00:34:00] social media where I try to make sleep cool to at least talk about it and let make sure that people are aware and know about it. 
[00:34:07] Kerly: Yes. Yeah. But yeah. Um, online presence is very cool. It's like, oh look, a doctor that can laugh and chill out.
[00:34:14] Dr. Chris : It's funny. It's, it's a job in itself, I'll tell you that much. Yeah. But I love doing it. 
[00:34:19] Kerly: Sorry. No, 
[00:34:22] Dr. Chris : I get that all the time. Don't worry. 
The Role of Social Media in Sleep Education
[00:34:24] Sakhara: So what role do podcasts and social media play in educating communities? 
[00:34:30] Dr. Chris : Um, being in medicine, and I did a lecture on this, is that, you know, the more we move forward in time, the more you have advances in technology and social media is one of them, and a lot of people will look towards social media to get their answers.
[00:34:47] Dr. Chris : And that's one of the big reasons why I went to social media. I'm like, if you're gonna go to someone, you need to go to someone that knows what they're talking about. Mm-hmm. And I've seen that. And so that's another way for us to reach patients. And I [00:35:00] feel like there is an importance to it. Um, you have to take it with a grain of salt because when you have like a 32nd Instagram reel, you can only say so much.
[00:35:08] Dr. Chris : Or write so much down. But it starts that conversation and you know, and it's a nuanced way to inform people. And that's one of the things I love doing. I love talking to people to put it in a way where they understand what's happening. I feel like I have a good skill with that so they can understand.
[00:35:27] Dr. Chris : Never want talk over someone's head and you know, I'll meet them where they're at. It can be like a CEO of a hospital group. And if I'm talking to them, I'm starting at the bottom line saying, look, this is a sleep desire, even though I know you know about it. But we're gonna go over this just to make sure, because I never wanna assume someone knows something.
[00:35:45] Dr. Chris : So it's good putting it out there. And the hard part about it, it's second nature to me, but it might not be to someone else. So I might be putting this like, what? Why am I talking about you need seven to nine hours of sleep? I know that, but someone else might not know that. Or, you know [00:36:00] what? Of course the snoring is not normal, but a lot of people, and I've seen videos like, wow, look at my man, my man, my man, and he's snoring and it's like, look him all asleep.
[00:36:08] Dr. Chris : And then, you know, I'll go on and I'll put in the caption my card, you know, just to say snoring is not normal. 
[00:36:17] Kerly: It's true. We have grown up hearing that it wasn't a big, it wasn't a big deal. It's like, yeah, some people snored, some people didn't snore. And especially if you weren't overweight, they would you just say, oh, this is how the person is.
[00:36:30] Kerly: There's nothing wrong with them. But if they were overweight, then they'd probably, someone would probably say, oh, it's probably 'cause they're overweight. If they lost weight, they would stop snoring. 
[00:36:38] Dr. Chris : I know. And that's, and that's the hard part, because sleep apnea, it just doesn't look one way. It can look different in men and in women.
[00:36:46] Dr. Chris : Obesity does play a role, but those are risk factors and we look at every aspect to see if they have that, especially in women, especially in women that are either perimenopausal or around during menopause [00:37:00] as well. To look that there's, concerns for like, sleep apnea. 
[00:37:05] Sakhara: Yeah, I know.
[00:37:06] Sakhara: I, I snore at night. My mom tells me all the time and I know it's because I have a narrow airway and I've had to, because I had the trach, I've had to get, I had to go to the, ear, nose and throat, a doctor, get the long tube with the camera. That is like always the worst part. 
[00:37:31] Speaker 4: Well, very uncomfortable.
[00:37:33] Sakhara: Yeah. But I, but because I had the trach, I've had to go in and they've had to remove some scar tissue sometimes to help me like breathe or whatever. And, yeah. It. It is funny 'cause as many times as I've had it done, you would think that I would be not snoring as much or breathing better when I, go to sleep.
[00:37:59] Sakhara: [00:38:00] But, I don't know, I just kind of like equated the, having the trach and stuff to like, this is how I sleep now, 
[00:38:07] Dr. Chris : Well, and that's the thing about snoring, do you have something with breathing and there is restriction in your airway, but more so snoring is more of a soft tissue tissue.
[00:38:18] Dr. Chris : And when you fall asleep, that's like well above the trachea. And if you're still snoring, and I know at one time you said, Hey, they wanted me to use CP Pap therapy and you had problems with it. You should readdress it. And because there's, as we said, and it's a good, a good circle back, that there's more than one way to treat sleep apnea.
[00:38:39] Dr. Chris : And so if there's snoring going on, you can say, well, you know, sleep AP didn't work for me, but hey, listen to this tape of my podcast. And I had this sleep doctor, 'cause he is wearing a white coat and it says he's a sleep doctor. Says that there's different ways to treat obstructive sleep apnea if there is a problem.
[00:38:54] Dr. Chris : Mm-hmm. Throw that out there for you. And anybody that's listening. 
[00:38:58] Kerly: You hear that listeners, [00:39:00] God saka. 
[00:39:04] Sakhara: Yeah. 
Debunking Sleep Myths
[00:39:05] Sakhara: So, what is one myth about sleep that you wish you could permanently debunk? 
[00:39:12] Speaker 5: Whew, 
[00:39:13] Dr. Chris : that's a tiebreaker. So if one of these two can happen, then I would be okay with it. That. One, snoring is normal.
[00:39:25] Dr. Chris : And we talked about that before. If people's like, whoa, snoring, let's get that looked out to debunk that myth. That's one of it. And then the other one is there's more than one way to treat obstructive sleep apnea. People think that ccp aps the only option. So if I could debunk one of those two, I'd be a very happy man. And then, a close third. I just had to throw it out there. So the first two ones, really happy. Third one would be happy too. People thinking that you need less than the recommended amount of sleep. That is such a myth. And there are short sleepers out there, but that percentage is so small, like more than [00:40:00] likely you're not, and you can't base it on how you feel. So that would be it.
[00:40:08] Sakhara: Yeah,, those three are really interesting ones and it's really great that we are talking about this because I know, as a person with narcolepsy, I do struggle with getting my eight hours. I'm getting better, but I know the average American does not get, eight hours of sleep because we live in a society where it just like, how much can I accomplish in 24 hours? Or, if you are tired, run to Dunking Donuts and get a coffee.
[00:40:33] Dr. Chris : Hustle culture is real and it's hurting. People, it's hurting our people. It's hurting patients. I've seen videos, it's like, if you sleep and you ain't grinding. And I'm like, no. There's studies to show that if you get the recommended amount of sleep, you are more efficient. And I'm a man of efficiency, and so you need to get the recommended amount of sleep to be at your best. To do that. And unfortunately a lot of people [00:41:00] will sacrifice sleep first and everything. Mm-hmm. Now, unfortunately, that was me when I was younger. That's my colleagues when we were in med school together or anyone in college, it's like, oh no, like I gotta test that. I need to study more for what do they do? They stay up or pull up all nighter and then that's making it harder for them. On that because like the brain, like memory consolidation, that's not happening. And so yeah, hustle culture's real and what I do, I do my best to, to debunk that. 
[00:41:34] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm. That's 
[00:41:34] Dr. Chris : good.
[00:41:39] Sakhara: I think that's all the questions I have. Kerly you have any other questions? 
[00:41:45] Kerly: Yes. 
Balancing Family and Professional Life
[00:41:45] Kerly: So, um, does Christie, you have a family? Are you married? 
[00:41:51] Dr. Chris : So, yes. Um, yes. The both of that, um, been married for 15 years to my wife. She is an obesity medicine doctor, so it's a good combination. [00:42:00] She has her own, , practice. Have my own practice as well. We have two lovely kids that are soon to be, nine and 11. So yeah, they keep us busy and , those are my pride and joys as well on most days. 
[00:42:14] Sakhara: Oh, that's really beautiful. I think I saw an, , article, well it was on your Instagram page, you had one of your links was the black business.com. You and your wife open your first black practice
[00:42:28] Dr. Chris : so yeah. So it's like, you know, we're one of the first you know, black couples in our, in our, um, city to have like a joint practice. And when I say that she has her practice, I have my practice, we stay in the same building.
[00:42:41] Dr. Chris : Oh, 
[00:42:42] Speaker 4: and because 
[00:42:43] Dr. Chris : she's been doing her practice longer than mine, and if anything, she's been an inspiration for me to say, you know what? She can do this. You know what? I could do this too. 
[00:42:52] Kerly: Oh my. That's so nice. 
[00:42:54] Dr. Chris : Yeah. Yeah. And so, you know, we share a room and a house and we share an [00:43:00] office. 
[00:43:01] Kerly: Oh, that's so nice.
[00:43:02] Kerly: Yeah. Gosh. You know that, you know that your marriage is going well 'cause it's hard to work with your. Yes. You know, if you see his spouse at work and then also at home, it's like you, you are never without them. 
[00:43:13] Dr. Chris : The cool part about it is that when we're both here, we're both busy. Mm-hmm. So we can barely see each other. We see each other for lunch. Yeah. And then she only works part-time here, so that helps. Because I agree. Like if it was all the time, you know, it'd be nice if we were doing things that were relaxing, but no, we're working. Yeah. So when we're here, you know, it's business. And then we take a little break from business and then yeah, it's a nice thing to have and I don't take that for granted.
[00:43:37] Dr. Chris : I don't, and the thing is, is that, you know, we are both very busy, but hey, if I can give a quick little look, a quick little hi, you know, definitely do appreciate that. 
[00:43:47] Kerly: Yeah. It helps. Both my parents were teachers and they taught at the same school, both back in Jamaica and even here in London.
[00:43:55] Sakhara: Yeah. Wow. That is just so beautiful. 
Representation and Diversity in Medicine
[00:43:58] Sakhara: It's so important [00:44:00] for people that look like us, African Americans to see, black doctors. Mm-hmm. Doing what they do because we don't. You know, as a. Race of people. We've had this stigma with doctors going to the doctor. 
[00:44:15] Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. 
[00:44:16] Sakhara: So it is very important , for us to see powerful black doctors, you know, changing the game. 
[00:44:23] Dr. Chris : And United States of America. There is historical facts where there's a mistrust and a distrust. And there's reasons why.
[00:44:30] Kerly: Yeah. 
[00:44:31] Dr. Chris : And so when I open the door, you know, because they see me, you know, sleep, Dr.
[00:44:35] Dr. Chris : Chris or Dr. Chris Allen's like, oh, and they open the door. It's like, whoa, hey, how's it going? Mm-hmm. When they see, you know, someone that looks like them, I don't take that lightly. And I, and I know that that does play a role too. You know, I love helping everybody, but you know, if I get to help my own as well that's a special place in my heart too.
[00:44:54] Kerly: So Dr. Chris, in the neurological like field, what's like the percentage of [00:45:00] black doctors in the states? 
[00:45:02] Dr. Chris : Low? 
[00:45:03] Kerly: Is it?
[00:45:04] Dr. Chris : I wanna say it's like maybe 10%, and it might be even lower. And knowing that, like, when I did my training, sometimes I'm like one of the very few, um, black doctors there and not even talking about black males, which is even lower.
[00:45:20] Speaker 4: Oh my God. Like 
[00:45:21] Dr. Chris : single digits, like two. Wow. You know, percent. And especially in neurology. And most of the time I was like the only one. And so I'm aware of that. I know that. And and that's why it, it's special to me. I know the, um, cross-eyed barrier. Even if I didn't want it, it's there. But I feel like, not that I'm a good black doctor, I'm a good doctor.
[00:45:46] Dr. Chris : And I'm gonna make sure that take care of anyone that's my patient, I'm gonna take care of them and make sure that they're doing well and you can ask them. 
[00:45:54] Kerly: That's so cool. 
Conclusion and Final Thoughts
[00:45:55] Kerly: Thank you so much for coming on Narcolepsy navigators. I [00:46:00] might have to talk to your wife about coming on. 
[00:46:03] Sakhara: Yes, we, 
[00:46:06] Kerly: yeah, because we 
[00:46:08] Sakhara: counts apart, 
[00:46:10] Kerly: you know, she's, she specializes in.
[00:46:13] Kerly: Obesity you said. 
[00:46:15] Kerly: And it might be interesting to see her take on the role of that in sleep. 
[00:46:19] Dr. Chris : Oh, well, yes. And it's funny, we've done podcasts before together in the past and, yeah. I think, I don't wanna talk for her, but I think it would be, if you wanna reach out, I definitely, yeah, 
[00:46:30] Kerly: I'll reach out.
[00:46:31] Kerly: You plan a, see, then I'll reach out, I'll 
[00:46:33] Dr. Chris : play the husband role and just saying, Hey, this is information now where you put this stuff out there. If it happens, if it helps, that's great. Yes, that's up to her. Yes, of course. I'm very happy that I've been able to talk to you guys, and like I said, I love talking about sleep and anyone that's listening, you know.
[00:46:52] Dr. Chris : Sleep. Dr. Chris, you've put sleep, Dr. Chris, like and follow. And if you have any problems with sleep, you know I got four words for you. You know, a guy. [00:47:00] 
[00:47:02] Kerly: I like that. That's such a nice way to end. Yeah. 
[00:47:04] Sakhara: Well it was, it was lovely meeting you. We have tried to schedule this interview. I know. So many times I'm like, okay, I have to meet.
[00:47:13] Sakhara: When I saw your social media, I'm like, I have to meet this doctor. Like, who is this guy? Like I have to meet him. You know, that's 
[00:47:21] Dr. Chris : been the ultimate question. Like who is sleep? Dr. Chris? 'cause I've only been doing this for a little over two years on social media. So people get a lot of that. But slowly but surely, and put my name out there, people are knowing it.
[00:47:33] Dr. Chris : And I'm just a guy that likes to talk about sleep and making sure that, you know, I can do what I can to make sure people are getting quality sleep. For that. 
[00:47:41] Kerly: We had a little, um. Incident in the back, the back room of, um, of an organization because I do the calendar and then you swap the days. And so the other co-host who was originally only co-host only. [00:48:00] But this year she had a lot going on and so a lot of people had to fill in for her. And so now everybody else in the team is now a co-host, which she wasn't expecting. She expected to come back and then only take her role and everybody else was to go back in the background. So then she saw that she was the one that text that text on Instagram when you were saying the other day and you're like, no, I thought our meeting was on.
[00:48:23] Kerly: It was on Monday, and she was like, how come it was rescheduled and it was rescheduled for Monday, and I was like. That's the time that he said, we've texted on the thing. And he said that was the thing. She was like I don't understand why someone else's name is there to do co-hosting because that's the, I already was gonna do that, doctor, and I already done all the research and I already have all the questions.
[00:48:48] Kerly: And I was like, AKA's a lovely lady. Why don't you call Sakhara and talk to her about this? Because she was expecting me to say to Sakara, you can't do the interview. Give it to Liz and I was not gonna [00:49:00] do that because it's like Liz works and how far, I know it says to the calendar that Liz is available on Sundays, so I would not think that she would want to come home, not nap, and then do the interview.
[00:49:11] Kerly: So I would not dare to her. She goes, vx, she says upset. She text him the group if I have interviews and the the interviewee decides that they cannot do it and they want to swap days. Let it be known that I will swap my day to take that day that the doctor or whatever wants put it in the group. 
[00:49:34] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[00:49:34] Kerly: We'll put it this way. Yeah. Very special. You, of course it ruffling feather, 
[00:49:41] Dr. Chris : we've got the interview done. If she wants to put in, you know, maybe there's some similar questions you can, she can record herself and then you guys can like prop her in or something as well. You know, we can, it can be three, it can be three holes.
[00:49:53] Dr. Chris : You know what? Whatever needs to happen. Okay. 
[00:49:56] Kerly: It's fine. You live and you learn. Now she will be more alert [00:50:00] and check the calendar. Yeah. Such just life, 
[00:50:01] Speaker 4: That's all. 
[00:50:02] Kerly: Yeah. Life. Yeah. 
[00:50:03] Speaker 4: Yeah. Thank you so 
[00:50:04] Kerly: much. No, no problem. We like, we like to end saying happy, napping everyone. So happy 
[00:50:10] Sakhara: napping 
[00:50:11] Kerly: everyone.
[00:50:12] Kerly: Happy napping, everyone. 
[00:50:14] Dr. Chris : I just wanna say too happy napping, everyone. 
[00:50:18] Kerly: Oh, this was lovely. Thank you so much, Dr. Chris. You're welcome. You have a good day. 
[00:50:23] Dr. Chris : I'll, and whenever you think it'll start to air, just let me know. Okay? Yeah, 
[00:50:26] Kerly: of course. We'll send it to you to to approve and then we'll have it out. Yeah.
[00:50:31] Kerly: Okay. 
[00:50:31] Dr. Chris : Perfect. 
[00:50:32] Kerly: Thank you. Bye. Bye.