Librarians Librarying
Each episode, two librarians meet—one brings a topic the other knows nothing about. Together, they explore and discuss it using only the resources you'd find in a library.
Librarians Librarying
1. Cats That Look Like Hitler (Pilot)
Did it tell you the recording's on?
Speaker 2:The recording is on.
Speaker 1:All right, so we're live. How do you like that?
Speaker 2:Live. Here we are.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Why are we here?
Speaker 1:That's a very existential question. Why is anyone here?
Speaker 2:Well, it's a good opportunity for us to chat.
Speaker 1:All right, I can go along with that. It seems like something.
Speaker 2:Yeah, boosts my existential mood. Yeah, that's pretty good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, should we start the thing?
Speaker 2:Let's start the thing.
Speaker 1:Okay, let's start the thing. Welcome to Librarians. Librarian. My name is Peter. I am a research librarian at a public university in Louisiana.
Speaker 2:My name is Bill. I'm an independent research professional. I was a law librarian for over 10 years but now I combine those research skills with some corporate reporting skills to offer freelance research, reporting and consulting skills to my loyal clients.
Speaker 1:All right, so here's how this works. Since this is the pilot, nobody knows how this works. So if you're listening to this, you're one of the few people who gets to hear this for the very first time.
Speaker 2:Wait, this is the pilot.
Speaker 1:Totally.
Speaker 2:I thought I was jumping on board a very successful train that had a long production history.
Speaker 1:No, you're here to make it a successful train oh okay, production history going.
Speaker 2:Well, here we go, okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so here's how it works. One of us has a topic. The other person does not know what the topic is. Well, here we go. Okay, we're talking databases, we're talking transcripts. Radio sounds books. If you feel like looking at books, whatever the library's got, it'll help you find out the information.
Speaker 2:Internet gray web.
Speaker 1:Yeah, maybe.
Speaker 2:Professional publications.
Speaker 1:You need it. Professional publications is good, and then the other person will read through that material and then we talk about it for like 20, 30 minutes. So hopefully you enjoy our discussion.
Speaker 2:I'm ready.
Speaker 1:You ready for the topic?
Speaker 2:I'm ready for the topic.
Speaker 1:So this is a topic that I used to use a lot with. Well, you made a face. What happened?
Speaker 2:I'm already nervous. I don't know the topic and you you've used it before and that makes you nervous well, I don't. You have a lot of background on it.
Speaker 1:I think you also know, how a lot of people react to this okay, well, so well, okay, I'm ready, I'm ready. I think you'll find out that there's less uh background than uh you might think. So I used to use this in my library instruction sessions. It gets a lot of attention. It gets people awake, especially students, when they're not wanting to be there. So today's topic is cats that look like Hitler.
Speaker 2:Cats that look like Hitler.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's it.
Speaker 2:Wow, I wonder how much information is in the professional publications.
Speaker 1:There's a lot actually.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay, academic.
Speaker 1:Search Complete usually has quite a bit.
Speaker 2:Wait, what Complete does?
Speaker 1:Academic Search Complete.
Speaker 2:Academic Search Complete. I've got to make a note of that. Yeah you write that down. It'll be helpful later for the quiz, is there?
Speaker 1:a quiz, academic search. I got to make a note of that. Yeah, you write that down. It'll be helpful later for the quiz.
Speaker 2:Is there a quiz?
Speaker 1:I mean maybe.
Speaker 2:Is that the?
Speaker 1:proper name of the database yes, it's an EBSCO product, so I used to use this because I would ask students you know, what do you think about libraries? What's good about libraries? What is your opinion about libraries? And they'd always say well, libraries are boring, there's nothing to do in libraries, and so my thing is libraries are a smaller extension of the world. Anything that exists in the world it doesn't really matter what it is is going to be found in the library, including cats that look like Hitler.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I mean, if you go to good libraries, you're going to find this stuff.
Speaker 1:So you know, if you think libraries are boring, then maybe life is boring. I don't know what to tell you.
Speaker 2:I mean, yeah, that's true Also. I mean, if your library doesn't have anything about cats that look like Hitler, the people working at the library are the best people to help you find information about that topic.
Speaker 1:That's true too.
Speaker 2:I'm surprised that there I. This is a topic that I really don't know anything about.
Speaker 1:Did you come up with anything yet?
Speaker 2:Any topics.
Speaker 1:No, any hits.
Speaker 2:Oh, I haven't even started. Am I supposed to do that now? What are you doing? I'm still digesting the topic.
Speaker 1:The topic is cats that look like Hitler.
Speaker 2:Oh wait, well, hold on, I'm on the internet, I'm doing the thing now.
Speaker 1:See the internet cats that look like Hitler is a whole different game on the internet. I'm doing the thing now. See the internet cats look like killers A whole different game on the internet.
Speaker 2:Oh my god, the last thing I'm doing is going directly to the raw internet for this.
Speaker 1:I'm going to Google search that.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:Wait, when you lived in Phoenix, didn't you go to the library and you talked to the librarians once and they were like you can just look that up on Google.
Speaker 2:Yes, that is a true story. I was very disappointed.
Speaker 1:What were you trying to find out? Was it cats that look like Hitler?
Speaker 2:No, it definitely wasn't. But I just thought, I don't know. I mean, I knew that I guess I could have just told them that I had already used Google. I just thought, I don't know. I mean, I knew that I guess I could have just told them that I had already used Google and I was I don't know. Also, how do you encourage somebody to use their professional expertise for you when the first answer is that they won't?
Speaker 1:They're not going to give you any assistance with that. They're so burned out and fed up with their life. They're just like go use GitHub. On Google. I'm looking Google.
Speaker 2:I'm looking here, I'm seeing some. I'm afraid that there's going to be a lot of information about cats that look like Hitler, either on social media or talking about that topic on social media.
Speaker 1:Does it say that it's on social media?
Speaker 2:Well, I I went to you know kind of peer reviewed publications and I'm not really finding anything right off the bat.
Speaker 1:Okay, so I'm going to be honest with you. I've never actually read any of the hits that I've got on the cats that look like hitler, um, but I definitely think that most of them are not peer-reviewed. I don't think.
Speaker 2:I don't think there's a lot of serious research going on well, that's what makes me think that it's going to be in um social media. That sounds like something. That's what makes me think that it's going to be in social media. That sounds like something that's ripe for social media.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but we don't want to use social media, we want to use library resources.
Speaker 2:Well, right, I mean, ideally, somebody is doing all the work on the cats that look like Hitler, and then what do you do?
Speaker 1:when you said that this was, what kind of a person do you think does the research on cats that look like Hitler? What kind of person are we talking about here?
Speaker 2:Sociologists.
Speaker 1:You think so?
Speaker 2:Well, I'm thinking about the person who's researching, the people who their hobby is cats that look like Hitler.
Speaker 1:Why would someone have that as a hobby?
Speaker 2:I don't know, have you searched this before?
Speaker 1:I have, I've never you searched this before I have. I've never read the results, but I have searched it.
Speaker 2:On just the Google, not on.
Speaker 1:Google in library databases.
Speaker 2:I'm not getting a lot of. I've got Gale General OneFile.
Speaker 1:What is that?
Speaker 2:It's a database that I get through my local public library and Gale OneFile formerly InfoTrack Newsstand so that's more newspapers that doesn't have. I'm not seeing anything directly related to this.
Speaker 1:All right, hang on.
Speaker 2:There's something from McLean's in 2007. Hitler is hilarious. Talking about Hitler comedy in Germany.
Speaker 1:But no cats.
Speaker 2:No, and then I've got an article Super Fuhrer Animals.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, I think that's one of them.
Speaker 2:It's from Fortean Times.
Speaker 1:Fortean Times.
Speaker 2:Fortean Times and times.
Speaker 1:All right, here we go. I'm gonna share my screen. Are you ready?
Speaker 2:hmm, okay, this election offers.
Speaker 1:I got 52 results.
Speaker 2:Wow, yeah, I did not get that. What database is this? My EBSCO?
Speaker 1:I just did a basic search in our EDS, so this is all the databases.
Speaker 2:What's an EDS?
Speaker 1:EBSCO Discovery Service, which searches all the databases as well as the library catalog. It's not my favorite, but it's good for a basic search.
Speaker 2:Wait, I had an EBSCO one, give me a second.
Speaker 1:Look at this one Thugs tried to kill my cat because he looks like Hitler.
Speaker 2:I'm desperately trying to get to that.
Speaker 1:Look at the subheading. Moggy Baz loses eye after battering. Is this from the?
Speaker 2:Wait, what Moggy Bath? Moggy Bath is the name of the cat. Is that the name of the cat? Well, I'm guessing the way it's written. Okay, I've got EBSCO master file complete.
Speaker 1:Should I click on this.
Speaker 2:Yes, I only get.
Speaker 1:Oh, of course, it's from Scotland.
Speaker 2:In Glasgow.
Speaker 1:And Glasgow. Wait, you've been to Scotland, haven't you?
Speaker 2:I have. I've been to Glasgow.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's rough. I think, there's a lot of one-eyed cats that look like Hitler over there.
Speaker 2:Oh, that would be funny to go to Scotland next time you're in Europe. I'm looking for moggy baths.
Speaker 1:Probably everybody.
Speaker 2:I mean, in that town everybody probably knows where that cat is. You think so I'm getting.
Speaker 1:Newswire cats that look like Hitler. Newspaper.
Speaker 2:Okay, will you give a cat that?
Speaker 1:looks like Hitler a home. Would you give a cat that looks like Hitler a home?
Speaker 2:Probably you would've got. I've got a headline do you even like cats? Yeah they're all right. All right, I mean I, I share the earth with them even if they look like hitler well, I mean, did they have plastic surgery surgery?
Speaker 1:Plastic.
Speaker 2:Well, it's like plastic surgery for a cat.
Speaker 1:I thought you said clastic. I'm like what does clastic even mean?
Speaker 2:Plastic surgery is plastic surgery. For a cat, it's clastic surgery.
Speaker 1:Is that a real thing?
Speaker 2:I mean, do you have money?
Speaker 1:Wait, no, seriously. Did you make that up or is that like a real thing? If I go to the vet and say I need plastic surgery, are they going to laugh me out of the office, or are they going to be like, okay, that's $60,000.
Speaker 2:The smart veterinarians are absolutely going to say that's $60,000. What do you? I can do anything. What do you want your cat to look like?
Speaker 1:Wait, wait. Where did you hear about plastic surgery? That might be a little bit more interesting than cats that look like Hitler.
Speaker 2:I didn't hear about it, but I just think that I don't know. Maybe it's a new industry, a new niche market in veterinarian services.
Speaker 1:I think you're making stuff up.
Speaker 2:I mean, would it surprise you? I don't know, I think it's making stuff up. I mean, would it.
Speaker 1:Surprise you I don't know.
Speaker 2:I think it's possible. You've been to California I have.
Speaker 1:Clearly I wasn't paying attention.
Speaker 2:I just think that I would not be surprised if there was plastic surgery, although I don't know of it specifically, I don't think plastic surgery is a thing. Okay, I got the Telegraph Online, which I think is the newspaper from the uk, cats that look like hitler. When when was? What's that cat's name? Moggy bats? When was that article from?
Speaker 1:um let's see, this is it's from, it's in gale. Um let's see may 23rd 2014.
Speaker 2:So this is from 2007. This article and the title is Cats that Look Like Hitler and just skipping the article going directly to the hit, it's talking about looking at search terms, and cats that look like Hitler was the top search term on the Times Online's website.
Speaker 1:Really Wait, what times the London Times, the New York Times I think Online's website. Really Wait, what Times the London Times, the New York Times.
Speaker 2:I think it's London. No, no, no, no. This publication is the Telegraph Online, which I think is the newspaper from the UK. Yeah, it's telegraphcouk, but then it references, it just says Times Online. It doesn't say which one, it says Daniel Finkelstein's blog.
Speaker 1:Why would people want to look that up?
Speaker 2:Wait, let me just read this article.
Speaker 1:Are you intrigued?
Speaker 2:He's talking about doing search engine optimization on the Telegraph's website, if I'm reading this correctly. Yes, yes yes, yes, so then. So then he's the. The author is talking about tracking search terms as they, as they rise and fall in frequency, including man boobs, fit flops and a number of much more racy and saucy um searches.
Speaker 1:Those are searches or search terms.
Speaker 2:What's the difference?
Speaker 1:Searches would be what people searched for the search terms are what they entered to find man boobs.
Speaker 2:Those are the terms that they entered. Oh, I see. Yeah, they entered man boobs as the search.
Speaker 1:Should I check man boobs in the database no.
Speaker 2:And then it says that the top of the search terms for yesterday was cats that look like Hitler. Was there something about cats that look like Hitler in 2007 that came up.
Speaker 1:Not that I can recall, but there's a lot of news to keep track of.
Speaker 2:So when you used it in your, was it a course or a training that you did?
Speaker 1:It's just a basic search. I used it to tell people you know, if you can't find anything on your topic, then you need to get with a librarian or do a search or something, because there's something in these databases related to just about every topic. Case in point cats that look like Hitler. Look, we got 54 articles here related to that topic.
Speaker 2:I even in my public library databases found something tangentially related.
Speaker 1:So, like I said when I was talking about it, I've never actually read any of these articles. That article talked about Baz the cat. Was that Baz the cat?
Speaker 2:Oh wait, what was that cat's name? I need to write this down. Can you tell me what that cat's name was? Mozzie Baz, or something?
Speaker 1:Yeah, Mozzie Baz. Here's another article about it?
Speaker 2:How do you spell it?
Speaker 1:This one calls it Baz the cat. B-a-z is Baz, and then Moggy Baz, m-o-g-g-y B-A-Z, not V B as in boy.
Speaker 2:B like boy A-Z.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Baz.
Speaker 2:Okay, let me.
Speaker 1:Sounds like a Scottish cat name, if I've ever heard of one.
Speaker 2:Okay, I'm also using ChatGPT. Let's.
Speaker 1:You know they're integrating AI into the databases anyway, right?
Speaker 2:I mean, yeah, it's all happening Are you ready. I'm pushing myself, yeah All right. Well, I asked ChatGPT 4.0, which I think was just released over the weekend. They keep saying it's better. I said who's they? Open AI.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they would say that.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, supposedly this one is supposed to be better and they're talked about how, or the internet's been talking about how they. There was some expectation that they were going to release chat gpt 5 this year, um, but they just released this 4-0 um. So I typed in what can you tell me about moggy baz with the spelling that we discussed? Chat gpt searched three sites, it's telling me. It searched three sites and it says molly baz m-o-L-L-Y-B-A-Z is a cookbook author, recipe developer and former senior food editor at Bon Appetit.
Speaker 1:So I'm going to have to ask. I don't think that's what we're looking for. So ChatGPT 4.0 has failed. It's kind of disappointing. Yeah, it's a big zero. You, you gotta look this stuff up in the library, you can't use an ai.
Speaker 2:It's not gonna help you. Yeah, also, I think chat gpt. If it doesn't know, it should just tell me yeah, that's not gonna happen though yeah, actually I'm pretty disappointed in in 440 chat gpt 40. Moggy is a slain term used in the uk and australia to refer to a cat. It can be affectionate and emphasized as a cat. It's commonly used to describe non-pedigree or mixed breed domestic cats. But it doesn't. It's saying it doesn't really see any relevant information about that.
Speaker 1:Too bad.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I checked the Gale General One File, which I guess is newspapers, and there was that one article I mentioned Super fewer animals, animals which I mentioned. That was just an abstract, but it talks about, um, I don't know, it might be a column about news briefs related to animals who look like well-known people oh yeah, that's the whole topic yeah, and it says that oh, we got. We have another lead. A cat named Poppy, owned by Kate McGee of Svenoaks, kent, claims that her cat looks like Hitler.
Speaker 1:What's going on with these cats in England or the UK?
Speaker 2:Well, that is interesting, right that there's another one in the UK.
Speaker 1:Right, well, it was a top search in 2007 in the UK.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, but it was the top search from people searching from overseas. Oh really, well, that's what that article was saying. So the UK searches was this and the overseas searches was this 2011, mindfuror. What database is this? This is a Gale 1 file, mindfuror First a house, now cats that look like hitler first a house, a house that looks like hitler I'm so aggressively clicking on this link to find out what's going on here.
Speaker 1:How does the house look like hitler?
Speaker 2:this is from the sun in london, england, which I think you know about.
Speaker 1:The sun right yeah, who doesn't know about the Sun? It's a little bit more spicy. You can't believe the thing that's in it March 2011.
Speaker 2:These moggies have a chilling similarity they all look like Hitler, the white copycats. All have black markings that match the Fuhrer's greasy side-parted hair and toothbrush mustache. Nazi-looking cats were among snaps uploaded by adoring owners on the website Cats that look like hitlercom.
Speaker 1:So it talks about the website. What about the house?
Speaker 2:Yeah, Yesterday we told how a house in Port Tennant, swansea, resembles the dictator and has become an online sensation since a picture was posted of it on Twitter.
Speaker 1:I've never heard anything about this.
Speaker 2:I don't know this is really. I just feel like peeling back the layers of the onion. What?
Speaker 1:Which I feel like. You think there's a lot of kinds of things out there, do you think? There's a lot of things out there.
Speaker 2:No, but I think I mean even initially I said I'm not really finding anything, and then now we've gone from cats to houses that look like Hitler. Actually, now I'm just on the general internet and this house, I feel like, does not look like Hitler very much at all.
Speaker 1:Wait, you saw the house.
Speaker 2:I'm on the internet. Yeah, I exited the databases and I went to the internet because I was like I got to get a picture of this house immediately. I don't know, I'm a little bit disappointed. I don't think this house looks like Hitler at all. It looks a lot more like a house.
Speaker 1:You know, it's hard for a building to take on human characteristics.
Speaker 2:Especially like that. I mean a building could be creaky, similar to the same way a person could be creaky.
Speaker 1:I'm pretty creaky myself.
Speaker 2:I tell myself I'm not creaky.
Speaker 1:You should want to talk about that.
Speaker 2:I mean, I would like to dig a little bit deeper because, as I mentioned earlier, I think it would be interesting to read some peer-reviewed articles. I don't think you're going to find that About the sociologists who look into this phenomenon. I don't think you're gonna find that about the sociologists who look into this phenomenon I don't think you're gonna find that it's a gap in the literature right there should I sign up to get my master's?
Speaker 1:do you want to?
Speaker 2:my thesis could be studying people who are the people around houses and cats that look like hitler I mean, it's a possibility I don't even think there's anything necessarily pathological about it. Probably not, did you? Did you see any, a picture of any of the cats that look like hitler?
Speaker 1:yeah, I mean I didn't spend a lot of time looking at it because, admittedly, I just use this as a tool to demonstrate that there's information out there about anything links and they have some pictures, and I talk about how you can do an image search as well as a search term search. There's a lot of different ways of searching, so I use it as a tool.
Speaker 1:I haven't actually okay this, this information about moggy baz and the rampant thugs that tried to kill for moggy Baz because they looked like Hitlers Probably the most I've ever actually looked into this topic.
Speaker 2:Actually okay, so I just did an image search for cats that look like Hitlercom.
Speaker 1:The website that's been mentioned a few times.
Speaker 2:Right. So I did not do a search for cats that look like Hitler. I just want to be clear. Not do a search for cats that look like Hitler. I just want to be clear. I did a search for cats that look like Hitlercom All right. I don't know. My first thought at looking at the first whatever 30 or 40 pictures. If you have enough black and white cats on Earth, you're going to get a bunch of cats with a little black mark under their nose.
Speaker 1:Do you think it's just a statistical reality?
Speaker 2:Well, I just feel like in isolation, I can't. I don't think that I would walk into somebody's house and say, oh my God, your house, your cat looks like Kittler or your house. I don't think I would walk. I don't think I would walk into anyone's house and say, oh my God, the outside of your house looks like Kittler and your cat looks like Hitler.
Speaker 1:Is that what we can call these cats Hitler?
Speaker 2:So I go to the veterinarian and I say I want plastic surgery. And they ask me what kind of plastic surgery I want on my cat. I say I want my cat to look like Hitler.
Speaker 1:Wait, you want it to look like Hitler? I thought you don't want it to look like Hitler. Wait, you want it to look like Hitler I thought you don't want it to look like Hitler.
Speaker 2:Well, with the popularity of cats that look like Hitlercom, some people what about Moggy?
Speaker 1:Baz Thugs came after him and tried to beat him up because they looked like Hitler. You want someone to come beat up your cat?
Speaker 2:Well, earlier in the conversation I didn't know which direction this plastic surgery was going.
Speaker 1:Well, earlier in the conversation, I didn't know which direction this plastic surgery was going. I think that's what happens when anyone goes for plastic surgery.
Speaker 2:Well, if your cat looked like Hitler because of the fur, wouldn't it be you might just want to dye it first.
Speaker 1:I mean that'd probably be an option.
Speaker 2:Yeah, before you like, go for drastic Surgery. Also a couple of these cats. Some of these cats do not look like Hitler at all.
Speaker 1:Well, you said that about the house though, too.
Speaker 2:I mean, the house does not look like Hitler. Some of these cats Just simply look angry, which I think.
Speaker 1:That's how cats look.
Speaker 2:And you know it's easy enough to find a picture of angry Hitler too. So you know you put two angry things side by side, they're going to look like each other, whether or not it's. You could probably find. You could probably find a picture of an angry building.
Speaker 1:Are buildings angry?
Speaker 2:I think you could find a picture of an angry building. Maybe, I don't know. Think of the characteristics of happy spaces and sad spaces, like brutalist architecture, a lot of concrete, not a lot of windows.
Speaker 1:I think people could put those emotions on it just by looking at it, Just like oh, I think that looks like an angry building. But, that's a perception that's not necessarily the building's fault.
Speaker 2:Compared to a cat, that actually looks like Hitler.
Speaker 1:I mean sure, why not?
Speaker 2:As opposed to a cat that's perceived to be looking like Hitler.
Speaker 1:Well, I think that's probably what we're talking about here is who perceives what? Because you just said a lot of these cats don't even look like Hitler.
Speaker 2:I mean, many of them just look like cute cats with like some spots, all right. I mean many of them just look like cute cats with like some spots, all right, but that is. I think that is when we talked about this project previously. That is something that you kind of talked about the perception of the information, and you were talking about information literacy and where are we getting our information, what sources we're using and whatnot. Right, thinking about buildings that look like Hitler ties in with that.
Speaker 1:Are you thinking about that right now?
Speaker 2:Well, I mean I did a search for Port Tenant, Swansea, Hitler House, and so I mean some people perceive this house to look like Hitler. Hitler didn't have windows on his face, though.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 2:Getting thrown off? Yeah, but yeah, that's interesting. Did you use any other examples in addition to that or not?
Speaker 1:really, that served as that point, and then you moved on yeah, pretty much all right speaking of that, I think we've pretty much exhausted this topic yeah, I think it's good.
Speaker 2:I mean I, I I learned a lot. I need to make some notes on these databases. I think I've used them before, but I never really used them. Side by side. Should we have a closing?
Speaker 1:Well, I mean kind of already did. Is there something you want to say in closing?
Speaker 2:No, I don't know. Just a thank you for joining us.
Speaker 1:Okay, thank you for joining us thank you for joining us.
Speaker 2:Okay, thank you for joining us. Thank you for joining us. Next time I get to pick the topic, so I don't know I was I had a few percolating around in my mind, but now that I got sideswiped by cats that look like Hitler, I might have to gussy up my ideas.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, you'll figure it out.
Speaker 2:Awesome. Well, thank you for having me. Yeah Well, there's a lot of news to remember.
Speaker 1:Is there yeah.
