Librarians Librarying
Each episode, two librarians meet—one brings a topic the other knows nothing about. Together, they explore and discuss it using only the resources you'd find in a library.
Librarians Librarying
1. Cats That Look Like Hitler (Pilot)
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Podcast Introduction & Setup
Speaker 1Did it tell you the recording's on?
Speaker 2The recording is on.
Speaker 1All right, so we're live. How do you like that?
Speaker 2Live. Here we are.
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 2Why are we here?
Speaker 1That's a very existential question. Why is anyone here?
Speaker 2Well, it's a good opportunity for us to chat.
Speaker 1All right, I can go along with that. It seems like something.
Speaker 2Yeah, boosts my existential mood. Yeah, that's pretty good.
Speaker 1Yeah, should we start the thing?
Speaker 2Let's start the thing.
Speaker 1Okay, let's start the thing. Welcome to Librarians. Librarian. My name is Peter. I am a research librarian at a public university in Louisiana.
Speaker 2My name is Bill. I'm an independent research professional. I was a law librarian for over 10 years but now I combine those research skills with some corporate reporting skills to offer freelance research, reporting and consulting skills to my loyal clients.
Speaker 1All right, so here's how this works. Since this is the pilot, nobody knows how this works. So if you're listening to this, you're one of the few people who gets to hear this for the very first time.
Speaker 2Wait, this is the pilot.
Speaker 1Totally.
Speaker 2I thought I was jumping on board a very successful train that had a long production history.
Speaker 1No, you're here to make it a successful train oh okay, production history going.
Speaker 2Well, here we go, okay.
Speaker 1Yeah, so here's how it works. One of us has a topic. The other person does not know what the topic is. Well, here we go. Okay, we're talking databases, we're talking transcripts. Radio sounds books. If you feel like looking at books, whatever the library's got, it'll help you find out the information.
Speaker 2Internet gray web.
Speaker 1Yeah, maybe.
Speaker 2Professional publications.
Speaker 1You need it. Professional publications is good, and then the other person will read through that material and then we talk about it for like 20, 30 minutes. So hopefully you enjoy our discussion.
Speaker 2I'm ready.
Speaker 1You ready for the topic?
Speaker 2I'm ready for the topic.
Speaker 1So this is a topic that I used to use a lot with. Well, you made a face. What happened?
Speaker 2I'm already nervous. I don't know the topic and you you've used it before and that makes you nervous well, I don't. You have a lot of background on it.
Surprise Topic: Cats That Look Like Hitler
Speaker 1I think you also know, how a lot of people react to this okay, well, so well, okay, I'm ready, I'm ready. I think you'll find out that there's less uh background than uh you might think. So I used to use this in my library instruction sessions. It gets a lot of attention. It gets people awake, especially students, when they're not wanting to be there. So today's topic is cats that look like Hitler.
Speaker 2Cats that look like Hitler.
Speaker 1Yes, that's it.
Speaker 2Wow, I wonder how much information is in the professional publications.
Speaker 1There's a lot actually.
Speaker 2Oh, okay, academic.
Speaker 1Search Complete usually has quite a bit.
Speaker 2Wait, what Complete does?
Speaker 1Academic Search Complete.
Speaker 2Academic Search Complete. I've got to make a note of that. Yeah you write that down. It'll be helpful later for the quiz, is there?
Speaker 1a quiz, academic search. I got to make a note of that. Yeah, you write that down. It'll be helpful later for the quiz.
Speaker 2Is there a quiz?
Speaker 1I mean maybe.
Speaker 2Is that the?
Speaker 1proper name of the database yes, it's an EBSCO product, so I used to use this because I would ask students you know, what do you think about libraries? What's good about libraries? What is your opinion about libraries? And they'd always say well, libraries are boring, there's nothing to do in libraries, and so my thing is libraries are a smaller extension of the world. Anything that exists in the world it doesn't really matter what it is is going to be found in the library, including cats that look like Hitler.
Speaker 2Absolutely. I mean, if you go to good libraries, you're going to find this stuff.
Speaker 1So you know, if you think libraries are boring, then maybe life is boring. I don't know what to tell you.
Speaker 2I mean, yeah, that's true Also. I mean, if your library doesn't have anything about cats that look like Hitler, the people working at the library are the best people to help you find information about that topic.
Speaker 1That's true too.
Speaker 2I'm surprised that there I. This is a topic that I really don't know anything about.
Speaker 1Did you come up with anything yet?
Speaker 2Any topics.
Speaker 1No, any hits.
Speaker 2Oh, I haven't even started. Am I supposed to do that now? What are you doing? I'm still digesting the topic.
Speaker 1The topic is cats that look like Hitler.
Speaker 2Oh wait, well, hold on, I'm on the internet, I'm doing the thing now.
Speaker 1See the internet cats that look like Hitler is a whole different game on the internet. I'm doing the thing now. See the internet cats look like killers A whole different game on the internet.
Speaker 2Oh my god, the last thing I'm doing is going directly to the raw internet for this.
Speaker 1I'm going to Google search that.
Speaker 2No.
Speaker 1Wait, when you lived in Phoenix, didn't you go to the library and you talked to the librarians once and they were like you can just look that up on Google.
Speaker 2Yes, that is a true story. I was very disappointed.
Speaker 1What were you trying to find out? Was it cats that look like Hitler?
Speaker 2No, it definitely wasn't. But I just thought, I don't know. I mean, I knew that I guess I could have just told them that I had already used Google. I just thought, I don't know. I mean, I knew that I guess I could have just told them that I had already used Google and I was I don't know. Also, how do you encourage somebody to use their professional expertise for you when the first answer is that they won't?
Speaker 1They're not going to give you any assistance with that. They're so burned out and fed up with their life. They're just like go use GitHub. On Google. I'm looking Google.
Speaker 2I'm looking here, I'm seeing some. I'm afraid that there's going to be a lot of information about cats that look like Hitler, either on social media or talking about that topic on social media.
Speaker 1Does it say that it's on social media?
Speaker 2Well, I I went to you know kind of peer reviewed publications and I'm not really finding anything right off the bat.
Speaker 1Okay, so I'm going to be honest with you. I've never actually read any of the hits that I've got on the cats that look like hitler, um, but I definitely think that most of them are not peer-reviewed. I don't think.
Speaker 2I don't think there's a lot of serious research going on well, that's what makes me think that it's going to be in um social media. That sounds like something. That's what makes me think that it's going to be in social media. That sounds like something that's ripe for social media.
Speaker 1Yeah, but we don't want to use social media, we want to use library resources.
Speaker 2Well, right, I mean, ideally, somebody is doing all the work on the cats that look like Hitler, and then what do you do?
Speaker 1when you said that this was, what kind of a person do you think does the research on cats that look like Hitler? What kind of person are we talking about here?
Speaker 2Sociologists.
Speaker 1You think so?
Speaker 2Well, I'm thinking about the person who's researching, the people who their hobby is cats that look like Hitler.
Speaker 1Why would someone have that as a hobby?
Speaker 2I don't know, have you searched this before?
Speaker 1I have, I've never you searched this before I have. I've never read the results, but I have searched it.
Speaker 2On just the Google, not on.
Speaker 1Google in library databases.
Speaker 2I'm not getting a lot of. I've got Gale General OneFile.
Speaker 1What is that?
Speaker 2It's a database that I get through my local public library and Gale OneFile formerly InfoTrack Newsstand so that's more newspapers that doesn't have. I'm not seeing anything directly related to this.
Speaker 1All right, hang on.
Speaker 2There's something from McLean's in 2007. Hitler is hilarious. Talking about Hitler comedy in Germany.
Speaker 1But no cats.
Speaker 2No, and then I've got an article Super Fuhrer Animals.
Speaker 1Oh yeah, I think that's one of them.
Speaker 2It's from Fortean Times.
Speaker 1Fortean Times.
Speaker 2Fortean Times and times.
Speaker 1All right, here we go. I'm gonna share my screen. Are you ready?
Speaker 2hmm, okay, this election offers.
Speaker 1I got 52 results.
Speaker 2Wow, yeah, I did not get that. What database is this? My EBSCO?
Speaker 1I just did a basic search in our EDS, so this is all the databases.
Speaker 2What's an EDS?
Speaker 1EBSCO Discovery Service, which searches all the databases as well as the library catalog. It's not my favorite, but it's good for a basic search.
Library Databases vs Internet Searches
Speaker 2Wait, I had an EBSCO one, give me a second.
Speaker 1Look at this one Thugs tried to kill my cat because he looks like Hitler.
Speaker 2I'm desperately trying to get to that.
Speaker 1Look at the subheading. Moggy Baz loses eye after battering. Is this from the?
Speaker 2Wait, what Moggy Bath? Moggy Bath is the name of the cat. Is that the name of the cat? Well, I'm guessing the way it's written. Okay, I've got EBSCO master file complete.
Speaker 1Should I click on this.
Speaker 2Yes, I only get.
Speaker 1Oh, of course, it's from Scotland.
Speaker 2In Glasgow.
Speaker 1And Glasgow. Wait, you've been to Scotland, haven't you?
Speaker 2I have. I've been to Glasgow.
Speaker 1Yeah, it's rough. I think, there's a lot of one-eyed cats that look like Hitler over there.
Speaker 2Oh, that would be funny to go to Scotland next time you're in Europe. I'm looking for moggy baths.
Speaker 1Probably everybody.
Speaker 2I mean, in that town everybody probably knows where that cat is. You think so I'm getting.
Speaker 1Newswire cats that look like Hitler. Newspaper.
Speaker 2Okay, will you give a cat that?
Speaker 1looks like Hitler a home. Would you give a cat that looks like Hitler a home?
Speaker 2Probably you would've got. I've got a headline do you even like cats? Yeah they're all right. All right, I mean I, I share the earth with them even if they look like hitler well, I mean, did they have plastic surgery surgery?
Speaker 1Plastic.
Speaker 2Well, it's like plastic surgery for a cat.
Speaker 1I thought you said clastic. I'm like what does clastic even mean?
Speaker 2Plastic surgery is plastic surgery. For a cat, it's clastic surgery.
Speaker 1Is that a real thing?
Speaker 2I mean, do you have money?
Speaker 1Wait, no, seriously. Did you make that up or is that like a real thing? If I go to the vet and say I need plastic surgery, are they going to laugh me out of the office, or are they going to be like, okay, that's $60,000.
Speaker 2The smart veterinarians are absolutely going to say that's $60,000. What do you? I can do anything. What do you want your cat to look like?
Speaker 1Wait, wait. Where did you hear about plastic surgery? That might be a little bit more interesting than cats that look like Hitler.
Speaker 2I didn't hear about it, but I just think that I don't know. Maybe it's a new industry, a new niche market in veterinarian services.
Speaker 1I think you're making stuff up.
Speaker 2I mean, would it surprise you? I don't know, I think it's making stuff up. I mean, would it.
Speaker 1Surprise you I don't know.
Speaker 2I think it's possible. You've been to California I have.
Speaker 1Clearly I wasn't paying attention.
Speaker 2I just think that I would not be surprised if there was plastic surgery, although I don't know of it specifically, I don't think plastic surgery is a thing. Okay, I got the Telegraph Online, which I think is the newspaper from the uk, cats that look like hitler. When when was? What's that cat's name? Moggy bats? When was that article from?
Speaker 1um let's see, this is it's from, it's in gale. Um let's see may 23rd 2014.
Speaker 2So this is from 2007. This article and the title is Cats that Look Like Hitler and just skipping the article going directly to the hit, it's talking about looking at search terms, and cats that look like Hitler was the top search term on the Times Online's website.
Speaker 1Really Wait, what times the London Times, the New York Times I think Online's website. Really Wait, what Times the London Times, the New York Times.
Speaker 2I think it's London. No, no, no, no. This publication is the Telegraph Online, which I think is the newspaper from the UK. Yeah, it's telegraphcouk, but then it references, it just says Times Online. It doesn't say which one, it says Daniel Finkelstein's blog.
Speaker 1Why would people want to look that up?
Speaker 2Wait, let me just read this article.
Speaker 1Are you intrigued?
Speaker 2He's talking about doing search engine optimization on the Telegraph's website, if I'm reading this correctly. Yes, yes yes, yes, so then. So then he's the. The author is talking about tracking search terms as they, as they rise and fall in frequency, including man boobs, fit flops and a number of much more racy and saucy um searches.
Speaker 1Those are searches or search terms.
Speaker 2What's the difference?
Speaker 1Searches would be what people searched for the search terms are what they entered to find man boobs.
Speaker 2Those are the terms that they entered. Oh, I see. Yeah, they entered man boobs as the search.
Speaker 1Should I check man boobs in the database no.
Speaker 2And then it says that the top of the search terms for yesterday was cats that look like Hitler. Was there something about cats that look like Hitler in 2007 that came up.
Speaker 1Not that I can recall, but there's a lot of news to keep track of.
Speaker 2So when you used it in your, was it a course or a training that you did?
Speaker 1It's just a basic search. I used it to tell people you know, if you can't find anything on your topic, then you need to get with a librarian or do a search or something, because there's something in these databases related to just about every topic. Case in point cats that look like Hitler. Look, we got 54 articles here related to that topic.
UK Fascination With Hitler-Like Cats
Speaker 2I even in my public library databases found something tangentially related.
Speaker 1So, like I said when I was talking about it, I've never actually read any of these articles. That article talked about Baz the cat. Was that Baz the cat?
Speaker 2Oh wait, what was that cat's name? I need to write this down. Can you tell me what that cat's name was? Mozzie Baz, or something?
Speaker 1Yeah, Mozzie Baz. Here's another article about it?
Speaker 2How do you spell it?
Speaker 1This one calls it Baz the cat. B-a-z is Baz, and then Moggy Baz, m-o-g-g-y B-A-Z, not V B as in boy.
Speaker 2B like boy A-Z.
Speaker 1Yeah, Baz.
Speaker 2Okay, let me.
Speaker 1Sounds like a Scottish cat name, if I've ever heard of one.
Speaker 2Okay, I'm also using ChatGPT. Let's.
Speaker 1You know they're integrating AI into the databases anyway, right?
Speaker 2I mean, yeah, it's all happening Are you ready. I'm pushing myself, yeah All right. Well, I asked ChatGPT 4.0, which I think was just released over the weekend. They keep saying it's better. I said who's they? Open AI.
Speaker 1Yeah, they would say that.
Speaker 2Yeah Well, supposedly this one is supposed to be better and they're talked about how, or the internet's been talking about how they. There was some expectation that they were going to release chat gpt 5 this year, um, but they just released this 4-0 um. So I typed in what can you tell me about moggy baz with the spelling that we discussed? Chat gpt searched three sites, it's telling me. It searched three sites and it says molly baz m-o-L-L-Y-B-A-Z is a cookbook author, recipe developer and former senior food editor at Bon Appetit.
Speaker 1So I'm going to have to ask. I don't think that's what we're looking for. So ChatGPT 4.0 has failed. It's kind of disappointing. Yeah, it's a big zero. You, you gotta look this stuff up in the library, you can't use an ai.
Speaker 2It's not gonna help you. Yeah, also, I think chat gpt. If it doesn't know, it should just tell me yeah, that's not gonna happen though yeah, actually I'm pretty disappointed in in 440 chat gpt 40. Moggy is a slain term used in the uk and australia to refer to a cat. It can be affectionate and emphasized as a cat. It's commonly used to describe non-pedigree or mixed breed domestic cats. But it doesn't. It's saying it doesn't really see any relevant information about that.
Speaker 1Too bad.
Speaker 2So yeah, I checked the Gale General One File, which I guess is newspapers, and there was that one article I mentioned Super fewer animals, animals which I mentioned. That was just an abstract, but it talks about, um, I don't know, it might be a column about news briefs related to animals who look like well-known people oh yeah, that's the whole topic yeah, and it says that oh, we got. We have another lead. A cat named Poppy, owned by Kate McGee of Svenoaks, kent, claims that her cat looks like Hitler.
Speaker 1What's going on with these cats in England or the UK?
Speaker 2Well, that is interesting, right that there's another one in the UK.
Speaker 1Right, well, it was a top search in 2007 in the UK.
Speaker 2Yeah, exactly, but it was the top search from people searching from overseas. Oh really, well, that's what that article was saying. So the UK searches was this and the overseas searches was this 2011, mindfuror. What database is this? This is a Gale 1 file, mindfuror First a house, now cats that look like hitler first a house, a house that looks like hitler I'm so aggressively clicking on this link to find out what's going on here.
Speaker 1How does the house look like hitler?
Speaker 2this is from the sun in london, england, which I think you know about.
Speaker 1The sun right yeah, who doesn't know about the Sun? It's a little bit more spicy. You can't believe the thing that's in it March 2011.
Speaker 2These moggies have a chilling similarity they all look like Hitler, the white copycats. All have black markings that match the Fuhrer's greasy side-parted hair and toothbrush mustache. Nazi-looking cats were among snaps uploaded by adoring owners on the website Cats that look like hitlercom.
Speaker 1So it talks about the website. What about the house?
Speaker 2Yeah, Yesterday we told how a house in Port Tennant, swansea, resembles the dictator and has become an online sensation since a picture was posted of it on Twitter.
Speaker 1I've never heard anything about this.
Speaker 2I don't know this is really. I just feel like peeling back the layers of the onion. What?
Speaker 1Which I feel like. You think there's a lot of kinds of things out there, do you think? There's a lot of things out there.
Speaker 2No, but I think I mean even initially I said I'm not really finding anything, and then now we've gone from cats to houses that look like Hitler. Actually, now I'm just on the general internet and this house, I feel like, does not look like Hitler very much at all.
Speaker 1Wait, you saw the house.
Speaker 2I'm on the internet. Yeah, I exited the databases and I went to the internet because I was like I got to get a picture of this house immediately. I don't know, I'm a little bit disappointed. I don't think this house looks like Hitler at all. It looks a lot more like a house.
Speaker 1You know, it's hard for a building to take on human characteristics.
Speaker 2Especially like that. I mean a building could be creaky, similar to the same way a person could be creaky.
Speaker 1I'm pretty creaky myself.
Speaker 2I tell myself I'm not creaky.
Speaker 1You should want to talk about that.
Speaker 2I mean, I would like to dig a little bit deeper because, as I mentioned earlier, I think it would be interesting to read some peer-reviewed articles. I don't think you're going to find that About the sociologists who look into this phenomenon. I don't think you're gonna find that about the sociologists who look into this phenomenon I don't think you're gonna find that it's a gap in the literature right there should I sign up to get my master's?
Speaker 1do you want to?
Houses That Look Like Hitler
Speaker 2my thesis could be studying people who are the people around houses and cats that look like hitler I mean, it's a possibility I don't even think there's anything necessarily pathological about it. Probably not, did you? Did you see any, a picture of any of the cats that look like hitler?
Speaker 1yeah, I mean I didn't spend a lot of time looking at it because, admittedly, I just use this as a tool to demonstrate that there's information out there about anything links and they have some pictures, and I talk about how you can do an image search as well as a search term search. There's a lot of different ways of searching, so I use it as a tool.
Speaker 1I haven't actually okay this, this information about moggy baz and the rampant thugs that tried to kill for moggy Baz because they looked like Hitlers Probably the most I've ever actually looked into this topic.
Speaker 2Actually okay, so I just did an image search for cats that look like Hitlercom.
Speaker 1The website that's been mentioned a few times.
Speaker 2Right. So I did not do a search for cats that look like Hitler. I just want to be clear. Not do a search for cats that look like Hitler. I just want to be clear. I did a search for cats that look like Hitlercom All right. I don't know. My first thought at looking at the first whatever 30 or 40 pictures. If you have enough black and white cats on Earth, you're going to get a bunch of cats with a little black mark under their nose.
Speaker 1Do you think it's just a statistical reality?
Speaker 2Well, I just feel like in isolation, I can't. I don't think that I would walk into somebody's house and say, oh my God, your house, your cat looks like Kittler or your house. I don't think I would walk. I don't think I would walk into anyone's house and say, oh my God, the outside of your house looks like Kittler and your cat looks like Hitler.
Speaker 1Is that what we can call these cats Hitler?
Speaker 2So I go to the veterinarian and I say I want plastic surgery. And they ask me what kind of plastic surgery I want on my cat. I say I want my cat to look like Hitler.
Speaker 1Wait, you want it to look like Hitler? I thought you don't want it to look like Hitler. Wait, you want it to look like Hitler I thought you don't want it to look like Hitler.
Speaker 2Well, with the popularity of cats that look like Hitlercom, some people what about Moggy?
Speaker 1Baz Thugs came after him and tried to beat him up because they looked like Hitler. You want someone to come beat up your cat?
Speaker 2Well, earlier in the conversation I didn't know which direction this plastic surgery was going.
Speaker 1Well, earlier in the conversation, I didn't know which direction this plastic surgery was going. I think that's what happens when anyone goes for plastic surgery.
Speaker 2Well, if your cat looked like Hitler because of the fur, wouldn't it be you might just want to dye it first.
Speaker 1I mean that'd probably be an option.
Speaker 2Yeah, before you like, go for drastic Surgery. Also a couple of these cats. Some of these cats do not look like Hitler at all.
Speaker 1Well, you said that about the house though, too.
Speaker 2I mean, the house does not look like Hitler. Some of these cats Just simply look angry, which I think.
Speaker 1That's how cats look.
Speaker 2And you know it's easy enough to find a picture of angry Hitler too. So you know you put two angry things side by side, they're going to look like each other, whether or not it's. You could probably find. You could probably find a picture of an angry building.
Speaker 1Are buildings angry?
Speaker 2I think you could find a picture of an angry building. Maybe, I don't know. Think of the characteristics of happy spaces and sad spaces, like brutalist architecture, a lot of concrete, not a lot of windows.
Perceptions and Information Literacy
Speaker 1I think people could put those emotions on it just by looking at it, Just like oh, I think that looks like an angry building. But, that's a perception that's not necessarily the building's fault.
Speaker 2Compared to a cat, that actually looks like Hitler.
Speaker 1I mean sure, why not?
Speaker 2As opposed to a cat that's perceived to be looking like Hitler.
Speaker 1Well, I think that's probably what we're talking about here is who perceives what? Because you just said a lot of these cats don't even look like Hitler.
Speaker 2I mean, many of them just look like cute cats with like some spots, all right. I mean many of them just look like cute cats with like some spots, all right, but that is. I think that is when we talked about this project previously. That is something that you kind of talked about the perception of the information, and you were talking about information literacy and where are we getting our information, what sources we're using and whatnot. Right, thinking about buildings that look like Hitler ties in with that.
Speaker 1Are you thinking about that right now?
Speaker 2Well, I mean I did a search for Port Tenant, Swansea, Hitler House, and so I mean some people perceive this house to look like Hitler. Hitler didn't have windows on his face, though.
Speaker 1Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 2Getting thrown off? Yeah, but yeah, that's interesting. Did you use any other examples in addition to that or not?
Speaker 1really, that served as that point, and then you moved on yeah, pretty much all right speaking of that, I think we've pretty much exhausted this topic yeah, I think it's good.
Speaker 2I mean I, I I learned a lot. I need to make some notes on these databases. I think I've used them before, but I never really used them. Side by side. Should we have a closing?
Speaker 1Well, I mean kind of already did. Is there something you want to say in closing?
Speaker 2No, I don't know. Just a thank you for joining us.
Speaker 1Okay, thank you for joining us thank you for joining us.
Speaker 2Okay, thank you for joining us. Thank you for joining us. Next time I get to pick the topic, so I don't know I was I had a few percolating around in my mind, but now that I got sideswiped by cats that look like Hitler, I might have to gussy up my ideas.
Speaker 1Yeah, yeah, you'll figure it out.
Speaker 2Awesome. Well, thank you for having me. Yeah Well, there's a lot of news to remember.
Speaker 1Is there yeah.
