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The Archery Project
Woodsmanship Over Gear: How to Become a More Effective Turkey Hunter
Master outdoorsman Zack Rhodes takes us deep into the world of turkey hunting, revealing hard-won strategies that have helped him consistently fill tags across multiple states. With the spring turkey season in full swing, Zack shares his aggressive, mobile approach that stands in stark contrast to the static, wait-it-out methods many hunters employ.
"Don't let that bird walk out of your life," Zack emphasizes throughout our conversation. This mantra drives his proactive hunting style—when a gobbler does something unexpected or goes silent, Zack doesn't hesitate to make tactical moves to get back in the game. This willingness to adapt and pursue has been the difference-maker in his successful hunts.
We explore the psychological chess match between hunter and turkey, with Zack breaking down how to read bird behavior and anticipate their next move. He challenges common misconceptions, particularly about "call-shy" birds, arguing that hunters often overcomplicate their calling. The simple cluck and yelp combination, according to Zack, will work on any turkey in North America when used correctly. His insights on calling frequency and volume provide practical guidance for hunters struggling to get vocal responses.
Timing emerges as a crucial factor in turkey hunting success. While most hunters focus exclusively on dawn hunts, Zack reveals that mid-morning (10:00 AM to 2:00 PM) can be exceptionally productive when hens leave toms to return to their nests. This overlooked window, when most hunters have abandoned the woods, presents prime opportunities for the dedicated hunter.
Perhaps most valuable is Zack's emphasis on movement discipline and terrain reading—skills that far outweigh gear considerations. His minimalist approach (just a shotgun, slate call, and binoculars) allows for the mobility needed to execute his run-and-gun strategy. Through entertaining hunting stories and hard-earned lessons, Zack demonstrates why woodsmanship and understanding turkey behavior matter more than expensive equipment or complicated tactics.
Whether you're struggling with pressured Eastern birds or looking to refine your turkey hunting approach, this episode offers actionable insights to help you become a more effective, successful hunter this season and beyond.
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Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Archery Project. We are live. We got old Mr Zach Rhodes in the house. What's going on, dude? Appreciate you coming by this morning. I know it's early, I know you start working a little later today, but I appreciate you taking the time to come by and talk. You've been, you know. Turkey hunting is.
Zack Rhoades:we're in the mix of it right now towards the later half of the season huh yeah, we just started the third week, so it's a four week season roughly.
Zakk Plocica:Yeah, so you've been going hard, I know, um, and absolutely smashing turkeys, you know, not only for yourself, but pretty much everybody you've taken out with you. Well, that's yeah, I just I.
Zack Rhoades:I shot my my first bird on Sunday, and then, uh, I shot another bird on Thursday, the first week, and then they're all evil, they all need to die. I'll gladly call them in, but uh shot one this morning.
Zakk Plocica:So, yeah, you've been going hard, man. I mean you started the season off with a bang. You got it done right away, which I knew you were going to. I mean, if there's, I've known you for a little while now and I mean you are the outdoorsman, right, Not just one particular. You know species, do you hunt? But you hunt, you trap, you fish, you do it all.
Zakk Plocica:So you've got a lot of experience across the U S as well, not just East coast, but we're talking, you know the, the Western part of the state too. You've done elk, I mean, you've guided, you've done all kinds of stuff, man. So you've got a vast amount of experience. Um, and it's very obvious with your approach to things, right, you just look at things, you retrain really, really well, You've got an eye for things and you just understand the lay of the land and how animals move, at least from me, observing outside, and it's just practice, I think, just doing it over and over again, getting your butt kicked by a bird that has a brain the size of a pea and you're like, why is he kicking my butt?
Zack Rhoades:But eventually, eventually you win that battle, you know Right.
Zakk Plocica:So that's what we're talking about today. Right, we're diving into the Turkey side of things and we're going to talk. You know, cover everything. You know strategies, mistakes, tips, tactics, and you know there's no better players, better person to talk to about it than you, my friend. Well, I appreciate you saying that. Yeah, dude, I mean impressive. It's always impressive talking to you when it comes to anything hunt related, because you are not about the equipment, you are about the strategy and the tactics in order to get it done. I think you could get it done with whatever I handed you, if I gave you a spoon and told you to go get something.
Zack Rhoades:I feel like you'd be the one to get it done.
Zakk Plocica:I would try to get it done.
Zack Rhoades:Absolutely. I believe it, man. My parents used to call me the catcher of things the catcher of things.
Zack Rhoades:Okay, so what does that?
Zakk Plocica:mean.
Zack Rhoades:You know, they, they uh, my mom. She took away my pellet gun, right I could see why there's one rule in my household don't shoot her songbirds.
Zack Rhoades:And uh, well, there's this goldfinch and I'm like, oh man, look at that, I'm eight years old and I shot at it. She caught me. So she took all my hunting stuff away, all my pellet gun, my little bow that I had, and I was like, well, I still want know. I'm going to try to catch a bird with my hands. And I found a way that if I could angle myself correctly and there's a bird feeder, but it couldn't see me through the bird feeder. Sure enough, you know, it took me a couple of days but I caught a bird with my hand and started calling me the catcher of things.
Zakk Plocica:Oh my gosh. You know that reminds me. I saw something on social media, the. It's been a few weeks, but there's this chick. She's got glasses on and she's got a plate that's attached to the glasses, that sets right here and she puts bird food in it Hummingbird, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Impressive. I mean strategy, man. If you can think about it, you can make it happen.
Zack Rhoades:It's just time. Yeah, it takes time. You know what I mean. And it's just time, yeah, it takes time. You know what I mean, that's it, I think.
Zakk Plocica:I think that's one of the big things is, I was listening to a podcast, I think, this morning. It was just talking about getting your reps in. No matter what you do, I mean whatever it is you're you're chasing or doing you know whether it's business, it's hunting, it's financial, whatever it in order to to be good at it. It doesn't just happen.
Zack Rhoades:And a lot of that's from mistakes. I've learned more in the woods from from, you know, blowing a deer out or blowing a Turkey out, and I've learned way more than than than I have from my successes, cause a lot of times the success you just can't do anything wrong. It feels like you know with elk, you know just it'll be the hardest 10 day hunt of your life. But when it's meant to happen, it's going to happen and you can't do anything wrong and you don't learn. You're learned some from it, but you're not going to learn as much as when that bull or that deer comes downwind of you and you realize, well, shoot, I called from the wrong spot and I gave him that opportunity to what wrapped out. You know, downwind of me, stuff like that. And I've learned way more from my mistakes than I have my failures.
Zakk Plocica:You know, if you want to call it hunting, you can't even really call it a failure. I don't think. And I think too. The reason for me looking back at it is, whenever something doesn't go as planned, I I sit on it a lot longer and I think about it and I kind of recap it more than I do with something that I I ultimately walk away successful with right. I just sit back and, you know, you think like what all went wrong, and then you're able to kind of break it down a little bit more and then, oh well, no wonder first one, I made a mistake.
Zack Rhoades:It it was my second year elk hunting and I wasn't guiding at the time and the wind was quartering me and I called to a bull and he came down the hill to me and he wrapped around downwind of me and I didn't take that extra five minutes to say, okay, he's here, I need to get my wind perfect, I need to get my wind right so that he can't do that. And he skirted me at 72 yards and I could never get a shot. I probably you know with how much I've been shooting now I probably could definitely hit him and kill him.
Zack Rhoades:Yeah, I think so, but you know, if you're not confident I wasn't confident at that distance, but that was a big learning experience for me is to take the time to set up correctly, and that's especially with turkey hunting. Take the time to set up correctly because anything I mean you're talking about a bird that has a brain the size of a pea Creeks, thick brush, fence lines, lines they don't want to go through it. It's weird. When they're regular feeding, when they're just moving through and they're, you know, traversing terrain, they don't have an issue with it. They'll pitch over a creek or they'll pitch over a fence, they'll do this, but for some reason, when they're coming to a call, every little thing is gonna affect that. You know what mean.
Zack Rhoades:And so taking the time to set up and say, okay, listen, this is where this bird is at, what do I have in between me and him that could mess me up? Right, you know what I mean. Or or um, with him hanging up, because in reality, well, in the wild, the time gobbles so that the hens can hear him and he struts so that the hens can see him. Every bird does it. Every bird does it, and if you're not set up correctly, he's going to get to a point where he says she should be able to hear me and see me. And in the wild the hens come to the toms Nine times out of ten. That's how it works and if you're not set up correctly, he's going to hang up these guys. He's here all the time I'm on a public turkey hunter forum. Guys, all the time will be like I got a bird at 100 yards. He won't come any closer. What do I do? Move.
Zakk Plocica:Get up. So you're not. Your strategy is you're not a, you know, sit and wait. You're in. This is, I think, from what I've known you, a lot of your hunting is you're very proactive as a hunter, which is what I think of when I think hunter, right, somebody that actively hunts and makes things happen, doesn't wait for things to happen. You go create the opportunities, which is very cool to see, right? Um, because there's a lot more. It's more action packed, especially when you tell the story. You know you come in with whatever you're hunting, you're you, you put eyes on it and then you moved towards it to close the distance and then ultimately, you know, come out successful or you know yeah From for me.
Zack Rhoades:You know I uh like this morning Cause you guys were just out, so you've like when.
Zakk Plocica:I say that Zach hunts a lot. Literally, I have to worry about him not coming to work because we're just showing up late Cause like this morning, right? So we? I messaged you last night. I'm like, hey, dude, we got an opportunity, cause we're going to attack this week, let's sit down and do a podcast. We haven't been able to do it yet, let's do it this morning. You're like, check, good to go, I'll be there. I'm like, all right, cool man. And then you send a group picture. There's a dead turkey. He took Chase out and they got on a turkey this morning. So, fresh out of the field, in here to do a podcast after getting it done on a turkey.
Zack Rhoades:I did have time to trim my beard up.
Zack Rhoades:I was looking pretty, but yeah, it was like so this morning. You know we get in there and I I don't. I don't wake up super early, I'm not one of those guys where, oh, I'm going to get in there when it's pitch black and fly right. Why I like to get in there, especially when I don't know where the birds are? You know, we had been probably about a week since we had hunted this property and I this was the property that I had shot my, my uh, first bird off of Um and we've been hunting there. It's called. There's three toms in there and they I hunted them last year, um and the year before, um I call them the three brothers. Now am I saying that these are the same birds? No, but the last two years, three years, I've seen three birds that run together all year round Um and uh. So I shot one of them on Sunday and then we stayed out of there for a week and, uh, I got in there just before daylight. I mean, we were walking to where I figured they would be roosted by and, uh, he gobbled at me or he gobbled at at a crow flying by. I was like cool, we're in business. From that moment when I hear a bird gobble, I'm thinking, okay, is it realistic that I'm going to call him? Right?
Zack Rhoades:I think the big mistake, mistake number one people make is they think that Turkey is going to go out of their way to find you or not, especially late season, these birds down here in North Carolina, a lot of your East coast, south Carolina, alabama, they've been, they've been breeding since March, so a lot of your hens are bred. That's why you're seeing all these lone hens in the fields with no toms with them was because they're just nesting. So, and you're seeing a lot of birds grouped together. You're seeing a lot of toms that are grouped together and you're like, well, why are they grouped together? Well, because the breeding is winding down, so birds are starting to come back together and if you're not in their bedroom, they're not going to give you the time of day.
Zack Rhoades:So what I'll do is I'll hear a bird gobble and I'll say, okay, he's um 200, 300 yards away. I'm not going to sit down and call it a bird. That's 300 yards away, it doesn't do anything. It's like wiping before you poop. It's useless, right. So what I do is I I'll get in, try to get it within 150 yards, 100 yards, I'm gonna call them. If he doesn't answer me, cool, I'm gonna keep pushing the envelope.
Zack Rhoades:Um, this bird, we got to within 70 yards. I sat down and called and he gobbled at me. I was like now we're, now, we're in the game and you know the later in the season. Um, to a degree you got to be in the bedroom, you got to be close to him, you got to get him fired up, because the majority of the mornings he's kind of fired up, he's gobbling, but a lot of it's shot gobbles, which is car horn or a crow flying by, or fire trucks. For some reason they love. If you hear a fire truck, start listening for gobbles because they just get fired up. I think it's because it sounds like coyotes that's another reason.
Zack Rhoades:Which is that's funny, though, because, like when you and cody went out, yeah, you know in the in the middle of nowhere, and then there's fire trucks and ambulances driving by you and like, well, there's and there's, I mean they they doubled and triple gobbled at this fire truck and I'm like, I've been calling to you for an hour and you haven't made a peep, and so maybe that's another trick, maybe you can use a recording of a fire truck that gets them just fired up. But no, so a lot of it's shot gobbles right now at this time of year, and you're looking for that one bird that's fired up. He wakes up and he feels good. It's cold this morning, this morning. Um, everybody wants to hunt when it's hot. Um, I like, I like, uh, if I have to wear a sweatshirt in the morning under my jacket, I'm feeling confident. But they're going to be fired up, um, so yeah, I'm going to get it within a hundred yards. That's my goal is a hundred. A hundred yards, depending on terrain. If it's thick, I'm going to try to get closer.
Zack Rhoades:Um, and then I sit down and I call and the moment he does something I don't want him to do, I'm moving. I'm not one of those people that's going to let a bird walk out of my life If he starts pushing the other way. Cool, we're moving. We sat there for 20 minutes, saw him pitch off. They pitched down, started going the other way and I was like, hey, we're moving, let's go. And we got up and it was a 30 yard move, that's it. But it's just calling from a different direction and it, and also I think it mimics movement. No, no, no, 10 is going to sit there for an hour and a half. It just calling the same exact spot, right.
Zack Rhoades:But if that hen's moving through and kind of following them and I think it kind of gets those birds thinking, well, she's trying to get to us and uh, and that's, that's something, that's that's from a hunt, that is my game plan get close, call to him. If he doesn't do something I want him to do, I'm moving, I'm moving, calling from a different angle, trying to get closer and and go from. Essentially, be proactive, be proactive. I am always. I am a worst case scenario kind of guy. I. I think one day you said to me, you said you always seem to be in that, in the right spot, you know, and it's because I am constantly thinking, well, what if he comes this way? What if he comes this way? And then sometimes he does, and I've thought about it and I do it and he's dead.
Zakk Plocica:Yep, I mean that is one of the things, like you know any, you know we talk about. Because you know we talk about, because you know you always shoot me a text as soon as you kill something, which is, I feel like I get a ton of text messages because you constantly kill things. Deer season doesn't matter, fish catching fish left and right, but that's one of the things. I think a lot of people, there's a lot of paralysis by analysis right in the hunting world. I think that's big, I think it's very common. I think people are scared to do things because they feel like they're going to screw it up. Um, which your approach is a little bit different. It's like why am I going to sit here and wait for something to come to me that's it's not going to happen. I need to. I need to move towards it and then create that opportunity.
Zack Rhoades:Yeah, it's kind of like that guy at a bar and there's that girl that he likes. He's like I'm afraid to ask for a number. Well, what does she say? If what she says, no, well, then you're in the same position you are now. Yeah, let's go for it.
Zack Rhoades:You know, if you booger them, well, there's another day, man, there's another, there's another property, there's another opportunity yeah, and and if you're smart when you move, obviously you don't want to be running through the woods after them and stuff. You're typically not going to booger them, you know. It's just it's not going to happen, but when it does, it's a game changer. Yeah, it's a game changer.
Zakk Plocica:So what about when it comes to locating birds? So how are you like turkeys I mean, they see everything right, you know you're trying to move I mean you gotta be very cautious. Obviously it's a little bit different. You know, everyone out there is fully in, in full camouflage. I mean faces are either painted or covered or whatnot. So you've got to be very cautious about how you move through the woods, because they pick up any kind of movement very easy from a far distance, right? So how are you scouting birds without bumping them? Is it typically? Are you going out and scouting just from a distance, glassing? Are you scouting in the evening? Are you scouting in the morning whenever you're trying to locate?
Zack Rhoades:For locating. The best way to do it is to be out there. I'm going to get out there when they're gobbling the time that they're gobbling the most is in the morning and do an owl hoot.
Zack Rhoades:There's people out there that can do an owl hoot with their voice. I can't do it. It sounds stupid and I'm not going to embarrass myself to do it. So I've got an owl hooter that I use, um, and I'm not trying to get the turkeys fired up, but I'm gonna try to get the owls fired up. So if I can get the owls fired up, they're going to hoot for me and they're going to do my job for me. That way, I don't have to worry about it. They're going to be hooting and the birds are gobbling at those birds and that are at the owls, and that's how I know I can move um.
Zack Rhoades:When it comes to scouting, though, I'm looking for tracks and so, um, scratching, scratching, where it's still you know it's, it hasn't dried out from that sun yet um, I'm looking for gobbler tracks, especially and and hens they're. They have got three feet. I'm not sure if they can see it on the camera, but they've got three feet and it looks exactly like this and all three feet are the same length. But tom, his, his track is going to be that, you know it's going to hit. That middle finger is going to be for longer. Gotcha, so you're looking for that, that kind of track. Um, if I'm seeing strut marks, you know, like just uh marks in the, in the sand or whatever, that's what. That's what I'm looking for an active bird doing that.
Zack Rhoades:But I hunt a lot of birds in the swamp, especially on state land, and you're not going to find that and it all comes down to hearing them off the roost. Gotcha, it's. It's letting the owls work for you. You know everybody wants to get a crow call. There's some properties that have you know everybody wants to get a crow call. There's some properties that have. You know that it's really works well on. But I'm more of an owl hooter kind of guy. I'm going to let those owls go off and let those birds talk to those owls and then, while he's doing that, I'm just moving and I'll move 50 yards and I'll stop and I'll wait and then I'll gobble again. I'm okay, cool, this is where he's at and I'm going to and I just keep working my way to him and when I feel like I'm close enough to get into his comfort zone.
Zakk Plocica:That's when I start to sit down, that's when the chess match begins, gotcha. So for you are you do you enjoy hunting the mornings more than anything, as most people do? Um, but what about like strategy wise? Because I mean, obviously you don't just hunt mornings, you hunt afternoons as well, you hunt all the time. I mean you spend a ton of time in the woods, um, I mean, how does your strategy differ from morning to evening, or midday, whatever? Um?
Zack Rhoades:so actually I've. I've killed a lot more birds in the in in mid morning from 10 o'clock till two, when no one's out there. That and the day in the life of a gobbler right is. He gets off, he gets up gobbles, he struts off the limb typically the hens are going to pitch to him. He pitches down to the hens and he's going to harass them and strut around and everybody's like, oh, he's got hens, he's got hens. Yep, good luck. Unless you get that hen to come to you. You can try a Kiki run, that's an adolescent turkey. You can try that, trying to get her to come to you. But eventually, around 10, 11 o'clock, those hens are going to get tired of them and they're going to, they're going to run away from them, Literally. I watched it. I killed a bird two years ago that way, just sitting there. He had hens and I just sat there and waited, I didn't call to him, I didn't do nothing and finally his hen left. I mean he turned around to strut something else and she just darted into the woods and he turned around and I was like oh hello. And I called to him and he had a death march coming to me. That was at 1130 in the morning, when everybody's out of the woods, that's when it gets good.
Zack Rhoades:As strategy wise, though you're not going to, they're not going to be fired up. Sometimes you will. You'll strike up a Tom, you know, just walk through the woods and call, and stuff like that. But when it comes to where I'm going to sit, I base a lot of it off of what I'm seeing in the morning. If I know that they're roosted here at this point in the evening, I'm going to wait for them to come back and I'm going to sit that roost area and I'm going to work that and call. He's not going to come in fired up. He's not going to come in gobbling, and that's when you've got to be on your toes. He's going to sneak in. A lot of people are sitting on their phone and they're just relaxing. You've got to be looking because he's going to catch you. He's going to catch you and they like to come in from behind you. So when it comes to the evening, I'm not as aggressive. I'm going to sit down and I'm going to just put the time in and it's boring.
Zack Rhoades:You're going to wait him out every 15 minutes, every 15 minutes, every 30 minutes. My dad, he was a, he was a hell of a turkey hunter. He taught, he taught me everything. I know I kind of put my own spin on it. He's not as aggressive as I am, but me and him were kind of learning together. I remember six years old hunting with my dad and the first birds he ever shot were two jakes that come running into the decoy. That was. I'll never forget it.
Zack Rhoades:But, um, he used to tell me uh, especially in massachusetts, when you hear a grouse I'm not sure if you ever heard a grouse, it's like it's what you hear. He said whenever you hear one of those, that's when you call. And I was like what if I hear one every five minutes, but you never do, it'll be like 25, 30, 45 minutes. And then he'd call and, uh, that late afternoon or that, you know, late, late morning, early afternoon, especially when it's hot, two, three o'clock, um, that's when that is deadly. You know, just don't move, call soft every 30 minutes and just keep your eyes open.
Zakk Plocica:So what about as far as like turkeys and like their, their range? I mean, are you typically seeing them coming back to the same location? They're going to cut where they're roosting at. They're going to kind of wander off, hit their areas and then come back in the evening.
Zack Rhoades:Absolutely, and what they're doing is they're just feeding. That's what they're doing. I'm sure people listening you've seen that time, especially a time with a hen, and you get that hen to start coming to you and it takes her an hour and a half to move 150 yards. It's, that's, that's them. They're just meandering through. So the hotter it gets, the darker I try to get right. So if it's blazing hot, I'm not going to be out in the field, right, I'm going to push into the woods, where it's where it's cooler, where there's bugs and they're scratching up in there, and I'll look. All you know part of is I'll walk through and I see a bunch of scratching. Cool, I'm going to sit here cause there's birds ranging through there during the day and I'll sit there and that time of day I don't even call really, but I'll sit there and I'll get up stick and I'll scratch the leaves and I'll just do real soft clucks and purrs.
Zack Rhoades:People say I don't, don't call too much Hens. If you ever call a hen and she is talking the entire time Non-stop, non-stop, just clucking, clucking in a three-note yelp, usually Cluck, cluck and then yelp, yelp, yelp, that's it and it's really soft and I will do that every five minutes, just really, really soft. But I'm going to let that call go higher or louder every 25, 30 minutes. But you know, flock talk is is huge, they're always talking.
Zakk Plocica:They are always talking so I, you know it's funny because you all you're hunting is is you don't hunt out of a blind, you don't use decoys, you just run and gun, right? Yep, you know which is super cool? Right, because you're not limited at that point, because when you throw a blind out, you're kind of set a decoy up. It's either going going to happen or it's. I mean, it's not. You can't really create opportunity out of that, it's you just you know where they are, they're going to come in. Hopefully you get a shot on them.
Zack Rhoades:I'm not a big fan of decoys. You know, a lot of guys are, a lot of guys are the fan of the Jake and all this. But I've watched more toms get spooked by a jake decoy Because, for example, there's a property that I hunt and it is loaded with jakes. There's a flock of about six or seven jakes on that property. So if you put a jake decoy out, a tom ain't coming anywhere near it because he's going to get his butt kicked, right. I mean, a flock of four or five jakes will kick the crap out of a tom and a lot of times. Or five jakes will kick the crap out of a tom and a lot of times he's gonna, they're gonna get kicked out. So that's, that's the time when those toms are the ones coming in quiet, you know, because they there's so many jakes on that property and um, it just never works out well for me. So I don't, I don't run any decoys, um, I I just I get to a spot where, going back to what I was saying earlier with um, the tom gobbles so that the hens can hear him. So when he's coming into the to a decoy or not to a decoy, I'm sorry, but when he's coming in and you're getting him to come and you're talking to him and he's gobbling back at you and he's coming. What he's doing is he's trying to get to a spot where he knows that the hen can hear him and see him. That is it. And then once, a lot of times, when he gets to that spot, that's where he's going to stay and he's going to go back and forth, back and forth. But if you get to an area and you set up strategically so that by the time he feels like, okay, she can hear me which I mean he knows that she can hear him a lot further but okay, I'm at a spot where I know she can hear me, I know she can see me, she's dead, he's dead, he's already in gun range and he's dead Right.
Zack Rhoades:So a lot of times, like a curve of a field or, um, in a swamp I love killing birds in the swamp if you've never hunted birds in the swamp um, it's thicker in there and he's got to come find you and you don't know where he's at. But he's gobbling, it sounds like it's right on top of you and then he pops out at 15 yards and it's just. I've missed a couple in there because it gets so amped up. But uh, yeah, getting to an area where you know that he can, where he knows that, all right, she can hear me, she can see me, but by that time he's already in gun range. Right, right, the knoll of a hill, like I was talking about today. Just getting to where, oh, she's just over that hill, I got to come up to the top of that hill. Well, when he does that, he's in gun range.
Zakk Plocica:So you're using. So that's what I want to talk about too is, like I said, reading terrain, so understanding terrain and how to use it to towards your advantage. So here in the East coast, right, it's very flat, um, but it is very thick, uh. So when I refer to terrain, we're talking vegetation. It could be, you know, uh, drainage ditches, even the little Hills that we got, um, is there anything that you like, really like to look for to, I mean, put you at an advantage, like, how do you, how do you, utilize terrain to your advantage? You know whether it's in a field or, like you said, in down in the swamp.
Zack Rhoades:Um, I'm looking for in a swamp, right? Yep, the birds in a swamp are going to have I don't know what it's called, but it's called a strut zone, I call it, and it's thicker in there and so he's going to pitch down and he's going to have a routine that he works during the morning. Every morning he's going to do it and it's open, it's got good feed. If there's grass down on the bottom, it's got good feed. Um, it's dry. A lot of times you're looking for that dry stuff. Um, you don't want it too thick, right? Um, turkeys, they use their eyesight. That's the number one defense. I mean they can. They have monocular vision, Um, so I'm looking for something that's not too congested, right? Like deer, they like it. Congested Turkeys, they like it more open.
Zakk Plocica:There's room to move and see Exactly.
Zack Rhoades:And there's that where they can use their eyesight. So for me there's really not a science to it for me, you know, I'm just I'm looking more along the lines of where can I sit, where I can fool him to think that hen's behind me. So when it comes to terrain features, it could be anything. It could be anything. It could be a thick patch of little saplings, this thick, and I'm going to sit right in front of that and hope that he thinks that I'm behind it and so he's going to try to wrap around it so that she can see him. And that's where I'm going to sit right in front of that and hope that he thinks that I'm behind it, and so he's going to try to wrap around it to get so that she can see him. And that's where I'm going to kill him.
Zack Rhoades:Here. Stuff like that On a field edge. If there's tall grass on the edge of the field and it comes down into a bank, into like a little gully because a lot of those fields they've got those little ag ditches I'm gonna sit there so that he thinks I'm, you know, oh yeah, she's down in here, or something like that. Right, just anything, where it's, it's got a cut through or cut around, something like that, it's, it's, it's. It's really not a science as to when it comes to terrain or or anything like that, it's just get somewhere he can't pinpoint you right, so you're using whatever's available at your advantage, whether it's a tree, whether it's a drainage ditch, it's a hill, you're just trying to get them to move in to where you know it's there's.
Zakk Plocica:you know he gets close enough and that's that's it yeah what about. As far as like movement, though goes with with birds right patterning a bird Like they're just, I mean, you can kind of get an idea of like where they live, right, so you know their home range or whatnot.
Zack Rhoades:but as far as like, pinpointing their movement like, I I've never been able to right, Not as well as deer.
Zack Rhoades:Yeah.
Zack Rhoades:I mean sure, I know that, you know they roost here and they like to feed here, and then you, that's it. You know it's a Turkey. They're they, they're, they're the the smartest dumb animal you'll ever meet in your life and the smartest, most frustrating, incredible animal you'll ever hunt. So I don't really try to pattern them. You know what I mean. If, if, uh, if I'm trying to get on a bird and figure out where they're at, I'm not really hunting where they're feeding, I'm hunting where they're at right. You know that they're where they're feeding. I'm hunting where they're at. You know they were saying back in the day when I was guiding was the elk are where you find them.
Zakk Plocica:Weird Makes sense.
Zack Rhoades:The turkeys. They're where you find them, right? You have no idea, you know. I do know that they like, for example, there's properties, they just planted corn and I've noticed that they like, for example, there's properties got. They just planted corn and I've noticed that they're not really hitting the cornfield. Well, there's no food in it, but they're hitting winter wheat and it's high, and it's almost three feet high.
Zakk Plocica:So interesting you say that. So, as far as the winter wheat thing, they're moving into that field because that winter wheat right now is tall, because that's what's out by my place right now, real tall, real green. So are they moving just around the field edge there, or your hens aren't.
Zack Rhoades:Your hens are gonna be right in the middle of it in that tall stuff. Yeah, especially if they're nesting, it's great nesting cover, um, but you also gotta remember there's grasshoppers in there, right? Yeah, tons of bugs, dude, tons of bugs, tons of bugs, and a lot of times it's a cycle you've got to realize is, in March they've been breeding down here. Now, wyoming April, they're still grouped together in huge flocks. Mid-may. That's when we started to get excited to have that action pack Goblin Toms separated all that. But here they've been gobbling and breeding since March, right. So what they're looking for is a majority of your hens are already bred, but raccoons, they destroy the nest. Well, that hen's going to come back and she's going to want to get bred again.
Zack Rhoades:So, a lot of those toms on a winter wheat field, they'll skirt the edge of it and they'll work the edge of it and they'll work the edge of it and they'll gobble along the edges of it. The bird we killed this morning he was roosted 60 yards off that wheat field. Really, mm-hmm. That's interesting, yep. And a lot of times, especially, I think, those eastern birds in the southeast they've been hunted harder than any other bird in the world. You know, your Miriams are easy to call in, your Rios are easy to call in, but your Easterns, that's the hardest bird to kill, in my opinion.
Zakk Plocica:Really.
Zack Rhoades:Because they've been hunted for so long. And those birds, what they've done and this is the way I learned this and figured out these two birds that we hunted this morning is just by failing with them, just by over and over failing with them. And you're just like what is he doing? What is he doing? Well, they're not working the middle of this wheat field. They are sometimes, but not often. What are they doing?
Zack Rhoades:I think they're working the woods around it and they're just working that wood line around it. They're making noise, they're gobbling, and those hens are going to come to them. They know it going to come to me and I'm going to do my own thing. I'm going to make a lot of noise, I'm going to gobble. That's what they do. That's why they didn't. They didn't gobble at us, they just gobbled it. They just shot, gobbled Right. They're letting everybody know hey, if you want to come, this is where we're at, and uh, so the I think the point I'm trying to make is that you just got to go, you just gotta go and just try it, and just try something and and push the envelope, because you ain't gonna kill him from the couch and you ain't gonna kill him if you let him walk out of your life right, so so do you.
Zakk Plocica:I mean you'll hunt if you have an opportunity. Essentially right. So there's not a weather pattern you look for. If you have an opportunity to be out there, you're gonna go out there, or you're out there scouting or doing something active or guiding somebody.
Zack Rhoades:Yes you know um, they will gobble less. Um, on windy mornings, okay, uh, if it's heavy rain they're gonna gobble less, but they still gotta get down, they still gotta eat and they're still gonna try and find each other in the morning. Makes sense. Yeah, they're gonna find each other in the morning. They're gonna separate throughout the day and then in the evening they're gonna come back and meet up together. Um, unless this time year, which most of our times are running together anyways.
Zakk Plocica:Yeah, so so what about as far as like calls, choosing the call, what I mean? There's a lot of different options, right, and there's it's almost overwhelming for a lot of people. You get in, you know you're like I'm going to get into turkey hunt, and then you're like, oh man, slate calls box, calls glass mouth. You know this, that and the other, I mean what is your go-to and and you know I mean what do you favor? Um, or does it depend on you know what's going on.
Zack Rhoades:I go to the number one call. I've caught I've killed probably over over 40 birds in my life I would say Um, but probably a slate call. I got a slate call. It's a Woodhaven, and the reason I like it so much is because I can be loud with it. But I can also make really subtle calls. I can cluck, I can purr with it. I would say that Now what I will do is, if I'm using my slate call and he just doesn't seem interested, interested, right, and that my slate it's a more higher pitch.
Zack Rhoades:I've got a. I've got a mouth call that I have and it is super raspy and I'll switch it up. I'll switch it up on him. Sometimes I'll be using that raspy, old raspy hand sound and then I'll switch it up to a, to a more softer, you know, higher pitched, and that's what fires them off and that's what he wants and that's what he comes into. Um, it's all situational, but if I'm, if I am working a bird and I haven't worked this bird yet I'm running, I'm running that slate call. That's the go-to and everybody wants to get a mouth call. They're hard to use, box calls. They're great if you want to shoot or if you want to strike a bird from from a long distance, but it's really hard to make it quiet. It's really hard to make it quiet, um. So a slate call in my opinion it's the number one call you can't go wrong with. You can kill any bird in north america. You can kill any turkey in north america with it. It's it's the most versatile, easiest to use.
Zakk Plocica:So you don't use like the glass calls or you're just that standard slate call, slate call. Do you do anything to prep it?
Zack Rhoades:I, I, my wife hates it, but I use the Scotch-Brite pad off of her thing. She knows it's turkey season when she goes to.
Zakk Plocica:When it's gone.
Zack Rhoades:When it's gone and she's like where's my? Oh, yeah, it's turkey season. When she goes to, when it's gone, when it's gone and she's like where's my? Oh yeah, it's turkey season, it's in my husband's pocket. Yep, that's where it's at, yeah, and I just use that, I scratch it up and uh, um, I used, I used woodhaven um strikers and I'll even switch up strikers if, if he's, if he's not fired up and and I and I know I'm within that area, when I've been within a hundred yards of him, I'll, I'll switch it up.
Zack Rhoades:He hasn't, he hasn't, he hasn't talked to me, talk to me with this, this combo. All right, I'm going to switch it up and try to change it up. And I've had it work where he just fires off on that and then that one striker that he likes, that I kill them with. And I have noticed, and my dad taught me this as well change it up, change that, call up. You can also change up where you're calling from Just a different angle on them. You know, if you're calling from point A and he's kind of hung up, move, swing around and call from a different angle, especially if he's hung up and you're going to notice this in the swamp when I'm talking about that strut zone. If he's moving away from you and then he's coming back and he's pushing back away from you at the moment. He starts to go away, move up and try to get to where he would. Last was Cause that's. That's, if you can get to an area where a bird has already been to, it's 10 times easier to call him in.
Zakk Plocica:He's confident. He's already been there Exactly. He's aware.
Zack Rhoades:Yeah, you know he's confident in that area and and if you can get to where he's was originally at um, it's dangerous combination. It's easy to get them back, it's easier, easier to get them back.
Zakk Plocica:You do get them back.
Zack Rhoades:Yeah, and I've, like I've used a Slate Call since I was nine years old. I started learning and really getting. I called my first time when I was 14. I missed them. I was so worked up I missed them, but I was with a Slate Call. I've used that the last two years. I've started to get into that diaphragm Really, just for a little more versatility. But my go-to is a Sl call, yeah.
Zakk Plocica:So, um, with you, I mean, is there as far as like gear goes? So you prefer an alcohol, you like a slate call, you like an alcohol for to locate them, slate calls your go-to, then you'll run a mouth call. If, just to change it up, you'll change up strikers, what about as far as like gear wise? Is there anything else you're running? You run a vest. Um, what about as far as like gear wise, is there anything else you're running? You run a vest.
Zack Rhoades:You run a specific like a little chair seat or no. I I run a vest that's probably 10 years old, just falling apart the pad. I don't even know why I have it anymore, cause at five minutes of my butts, already asleep and numb, right, you know what I mean. But, um, I'm I'm pretty basic man, yeah, but I'm pretty basic man. Yeah, I'm simple, I'm pretty basic. Yeah, what I'm typically bringing turkey hunting is the things I need to kill a turkey Shotgun, a call and my bino harness, because I like to have my binos wherever I'm at. So, like this morning, you know, turkey vest, I usually run my slate call in my pants, pocket, um and uh, my vinyl harness and that's it, just super simple. Just super simple.
Zakk Plocica:I like it straight to the point I mean, that's how.
Zakk Plocica:I like, cause what? What do you see A lot of people do? Is they get really infatuated with the gear, which is cool, man, right, it's always fun, right, when you get something new it's always exciting, and that might reignite that you know that a little bit more passion, or get you motivated for a little bit, because who doesn't like playing with new stuff? But I think one of the common mistakes I see across the board when it comes to just hunting in general, is the reliance on gear and equipment to get it done, when that, in fact, is you know the least. Obviously you need, you know your firearm, your bow, that's going to work.
Zakk Plocica:But the least important it comes down to one understanding land, understanding terrain, the animal themselves, how they feed, what they feed on. I mean there's so much more that people you know forget about and then become reliant on a gear. Or you know their phone, right, um, the GPS is. I mean there's so much stuff and then become reliant on a gear. Or you know their phone, right, um, the GPS is. I mean there's so much stuff and then you forget how to read land and you know, walk through. One of the big things, like your woodsmanship skills, is just being able to, you know, move through the woods quietly, yep.
Zack Rhoades:Absolutely. Um, I told you about this too, but uh, I got a good buddy. He's a gear guy.
Zakk Plocica:Which we love him, man Don't get me wrong.
Zack Rhoades:We love him and he's got all the really nice camo and it was deer season, oh yeah.
Zack Rhoades:Yeah, this is good, and.
Zack Rhoades:I'm like, yeah, I'm just running mismatched camo, I'm getting it done. I had a hell of a deer season this year, but it started to rain and I was soaked.
Zakk Plocica:And I sat there for another 30 minutes just because I didn't want to admit that my gear failed me, dude, so there's nothing worse. So when we go, we talk like deer season, like fall, winter time, dude, good gear will make you able, will allow you to hunt longer right, which is important.
Zakk Plocica:Right, I'm not there. I do not discount that at all. Right, I think that's very important. A good, a good set of hunting layers and outer shell and boots are critical when it comes to guys that are getting it, getting in, getting in the thick of it and hunting long and multiple days. Quality gear is King. I'm talking about relying too much on the trinkety little things, right, all the different. When you go out turkey hunting, you probably don't need a water purification system.
Zakk Plocica:You know a fire starter, um two compasses, it's just exactly but that's what happens is people you know you get a pack right. You're like, oh, I need to take a pack and is, it's just exactly. But that's what happens is people you know you get a pack right. You're like I need to take a pack and you're like, well, there's these pockets, what else can I put it? I might as well take something else. And then, before you know, you're overloaded with stuff and then you're noisier and it's just more stuff to forget, lose or leave in the woods.
Zack Rhoades:Yep, this morning my buddy. He had a backpack, he brings it everywhere and I sat down, he put that backpack down and he said. I said, if he doesn't answer me, we're moving. This bird doesn't answer me, we're moving, he's okay. And I called him and he didn't answer to me and I said okay, we're moving and he's like, I'm going to leave my bag here.
Zakk Plocica:Perfect.
Zack Rhoades:It sounds good. Perfect, should have left it in the truck. Yeah, should have just left it in the truck. Let's do it.
Zack Rhoades:But I and uh, but I'll tell you what it's that's a double-edged sword, because I've been out in the woods I'm like man, I'm really thirsty. Yeah, yeah, you know it's, but, uh, I guess I'll just die.
Zakk Plocica:I guess I'll just die or drink this water. I wish I would've had my purification system now.
Zack Rhoades:Yeah.
Zack Rhoades:That's fine.
Zack Rhoades:Um, yeah, we were always for elk hunting.
Zakk Plocica:We were always over over um that's a little different, though, because you're not hunting out of a truck, right, you know you're going on multiple days, you're in the wilderness, you're setting up base camps and you're in some wild stuff yeah, some wild you're.
Zack Rhoades:It's very remote I'm, but for turkey hunting, I mean majority of time you're walking. You're walking two, three hundred yards from your truck. If you, if you're on private property, you're walking 200 yards from your truck. I've never been concerned with gear when it comes to that Good camo, but if you have great camo and you move, it doesn't matter, dude, that's the biggest thing, the biggest secret.
Zakk Plocica:It's like what's the best, camo? It's just be, still, be, still, be, still.
Zack Rhoades:Don't move camo, it's just be, still be, still be, still don't move, trees don't move that's right, especially when it's windy, but they don't walk and they don't whip and turn their head around because it's it's.
Zakk Plocica:It's wild, though, like how such a small movement is so easy to be picked up in the woods. I mean, it's very, very easy when it's just looking because, right, you're like hey, hey, we got a turkey coming into the left. And then the buddy you're with is like huh. You're like hey, hey, we got a turkey coming into the left. And then the buddy you're with is like huh. You're like bro, that's the end. You just ruined it. That's my kids, yeah absolutely.
Zack Rhoades:And that was me. Oh yeah, everybody, that was me with my dad. It's hard not to. You're like ugh, no, and you look with your eyes. I had a bird fired up and they'll go quiet and they'll get nervous. And a bird going quiet to me is not something, or is, like I was saying earlier. The moment he does something I don't want him to do. I'm moving on him Right. Him being quiet is not an issue to me.
Zakk Plocica:So that's what I wanted to talk about, like the common mistakes that you see or the your hard lessons. So that's one of the common mistakes you see is, whenever a bird goes quiet, people move, people move and get up, and they're like, oh, he's gone.
Zack Rhoades:No, a lot of time he's sneaking in. So if a bird goes quiet, you know my wife and I love my wife to death and she's she's been, uh, she's been getting after it, but he goes quiet and you could, you could see her. When that bird goes quiet, you could see that excitement kind of leave and she's like, oh, he's not coming, that doesn't mean anything, he's, he could be coming and he's just committed. He's like, all right, I'm coming a lot of times on pressure birds too. That's how they've caught people.
Zack Rhoades:You know the people say, oh, birds have a short memory, they don't do. That's how they caught people. You know the people say, oh, birds have a short memory, they don't. They don't they know, they know when they're being hunted. You have a, you know, three or four year old bird um, they're, they're not, they're not stupid, right, they are, they're dumb, but they're they're, they're good at surviving. You know what I mean. Um, so what they do that bird goes quiet and then they, they get complacent, they move their move, their, they do is that bird goes quiet and then they get complacent, they move their head and that bird catches them. And I don't think us as humans can understand that, because we're not on the bottom of the pecking order.
Zakk Plocica:This is true, right. So we're not the one, we're not the prey, we're not constantly being hunted.
Zack Rhoades:If we were in Jurassic Park and there were velociraptors and T-Rexes run around everywhere, I guarantee you we would be more in tune with what's going around.
Zakk Plocica:Well, look at, look at human beings as a whole Now. I mean, how many people actually go outside? I mean, look at, I mean you can just look around at society. I mean we're so disconnected and no-transcript behind a screen majority of our life, and then you go out there and try to, you know, kill an animal. And they're dude, they were so in tune with their surroundings and you overcomplicate it.
Zack Rhoades:Oh, big time. You overcomplicate it. You know what I mean. You're oh, this is gonna do this, and you don't know right, you don't know, just get out there and hunt, just go out there and hunt. You know, I mean even if, yeah, this year we've had terrible hunts. When I say a terrible hunt, it's not a terrible hunt, there's no terrible hunt. But you go out there and it's dead quiet and there's not a bird talking and you're just sitting out there and it's still beautiful, it's still great.
Zack Rhoades:But then you go back out there and the next morning they're fired up and bang. We whack up. You know that's twice. It's happened twice this year, where we've had just a really slow hunt and the next morning we go and do the same thing and there's birds all over us and you know calling five different birds. You know it's a.
Zakk Plocica:Is it? And they're still in the same area, then they're just not as active. Huh, correct, yeah, yeah, it's wild. Wild, I guess, like everybody else, though, right, we have those days where we just get up and just. Yeah.
Zack Rhoades:Just got to go Right, yeah. But back to you know, with this movement thing is, I've noticed a lot of times, especially on birds that are more pressured're gonna gobble at you, say, hey, I'm coming, and then, uh, they'll quiet down. And that second bird I shot this year, he come gobbled up the top of the ridge and I was kind of just watching out of the corner of my eye and I caught that movement out of the corner of my eye and a lot of people are going to turn their head like this, right?
Zack Rhoades:Well, I just, yeah, turn their head and that bird got you. But looking out of the corner of my eye, I could see that there's something coming. So I kind of turned I mean just a tiny bit, just enough so you can focus out of the corner of your eye and there he is, and he's standing there 15, 12, 15 yards and don't move, don't move. And I could see him. He walked behind a tree. Now, when that bird gives you the opportunity to move, you got to do it. Right, you got to do it.
Zakk Plocica:And you typically don't get a lot of opportunities with that right you got to take advantage of whenever it's presented.
Zack Rhoades:Yep, he walked behind a cypress, it's probably it was about three foot wide and I mean I just swung, I mean the whole gun, I turned my whole body around and just got ready. And so when he gives you the opportunity to move, move, get there, get done, make it quick. Don't try to go slow. If you need to, if he's within range and he's gotcha, move when you can.
Zakk Plocica:Yeah, and I think that's one of the things that comes with your woodsmanship skills, right. So you understand when the opportunity presents itself, when you can move and when you cannot. I think that's the same thing when it comes to drawing your bow right, you know when an animal comes in. You, dude, if you can't just draw that bow whenever you feel like it, it's the. The opportunity has got to be there. They've got to be unaware of you. They can't be on super high alert, or they've got to have stepped behind a tree or something. And because I mean, I've blown it multiple times doing that, you know it's tough whenever, whenever you're hunting low or you know the, the cover's not great, um, and you go and you know you're, you feel like it's the right time, and then he boom, they look up Peggy and then they're gone and gone, yep.
Zack Rhoades:And, and, and. That's when you learn exactly. You learn quick too.
Zakk Plocica:You learn quick because you're like I just spent all this time out here and this was my opportunity and boom blew it and it just got.
Zack Rhoades:You're going to learn more by failing than you ever will by your success.
Zack Rhoades:That's right. But with that, you know just when you move, when you can move, move when that bird gives you that opportunity, he, when he walks behind a tree, just you know. Get your gun up Now, granted, if you're, if you're, if you're working, I say I call it working. You know, stay busy, stay working, you know, stay, stay. You know vigilant on what's going on. Don't get complacent, don't sit there on your phone and do all this, but stay vigilant and watch what's going on. So if you're doing that, your gun should already be up. I rested on my knee. I put the gun on my knee so that all I have to do is lift my back.
Zack Rhoades:The stock of the rifle, yeah, the stock of the shotgun. But if you're working and you're actively hunting, you know what I mean. Sitting out in the woods and not paying attention to anything going on isn't really hunting, it's just sitting up with your, with your back against the tree.
Zakk Plocica:Yeah, sometimes the days are just like that, though You're just out there and you're like whatever, I'm here and then it's about what? You're getting from me.
Zack Rhoades:And then you look behind you and that's when you get caught. Every time, every time.
Zakk Plocica:Yeah, especially whenever you're like last minute, you're like, oh you, you're rushed to get out Right and got home late. You're like I'm going to might as well go sit this last hour, and then that's when the magic happens and you're not ready. Yep, oh yeah, I've seen that.
Zack Rhoades:Yeah, exactly there. No, deer, turkeys, elk. They have no agenda, right? Well, they do. You're not in it. Yeah, you're not in it. So you never know, you know. So I always, I always, especially if that bird's, if I've heard him gobble and he's been 100 yards and I haven't heard him gobble and tell me that he's going away or doing something, I'm not moving right and I'm, and I'm assuming that he is sneaking in. Yeah, um, and I give myself 20 minutes, 25 minutes, the moment he gobbles and I realize, okay, it's been a minute since he's gobbled at me. I check the time, start the watch and I start 20 minutes. You're not moving for 20 minutes. Now, if I hear him gobble and he's pushed off 100 yards and he's going the opposite way, okay, yeah, I'm moving. But if you don't know where he's at and he hasn't given you the verification that, hey, I'm gone, assume that he's coming to you.
Zakk Plocica:Yeah, assume that he's coming to give yourself an extra minute, because that's, I think that's one thing too. I, when I talk to a lot of people, is, you know, when it comes to mistakes, is doing exactly like you said is just jumping the gun and being like, oh, it's time to time to get out of here. I mean, I think most people cause we're naturally impatient, right, especially whenever you got, you had that adrenaline dump. They're like, oh, they're here, and then all of a sudden they give you that cold shoulder. What feels like that cold shoulder in there. You know you think they're gone and it turns out they're not, they're just playing you.
Zack Rhoades:Yeah. And there's said, my dad and I, that's how we bonded, just, we hunted together. You know that's what we did. Um, we had a bird work on us. He gobbled and uh, um, I'm sure my dad would have killed that bird if I wasn't there, right? But I'm, I'm 10 years old. You got a 10 year old kid with you. It's not, you know, not as patient as as my father was, but, um, I was ready to go. He's gone, he's gone. It's been 20 minutes and he's like all right. So I get up and I walk out of our you know we're sitting up against a tree and I get up and I walk out into the corner of the field.
Zack Rhoades:That bird's standing there at 60 yards that's full a full strut and he just comes out a full strut and just goes back to normal and was gone. And you're like, if I had waited five more minutes, five more, 10 more minutes, that would have, we would have had them yeah.
Zakk Plocica:I think that's what I tell myself too, whenever with anything. I'm saying oh well, I've already give myself five more minutes, just to be on the safe side. Should have gave myself seven.
Zack Rhoades:Dang it and that's it. It's a ton. Yeah, that's it Nature of the beast yeah, but uh, if I don't know that he's gone um, I'm not moving.
Zakk Plocica:Yeah, what about? So any other mistakes that you see? I mean cause you take a lot of guys out, so you have a lot of different experience levels that you you hunt, you hunt with, cause you're big on helping everybody. From what I've seen You're, you're very willing to take somebody out on a hunt with you and put them on an animal, a bird, whatever it is. I mean, is there a common, any other common mistakes that you see from guys or girls besides?
Zack Rhoades:not being aggressive enough.
Zack Rhoades:Okay, okay, yeah, that's, that's a that's a good point, yeah, not being aggressive enough, not moving, especially with late season birds. People, all the everybody says oh, you know, don't over call, you're calling too much. I think that's common misconception as well. You know, especially late season, everybody's saying oh yeah, you can't call, they're call shy. There ain't a call shy turkey out there, there's not. And the reason is that, like I was saying earlier, if you call a hen in and you have a hen come into you, what is she doing the entire time? She's clucking, she's purring and that's it. So I think people overcomplicate their calling. So it's not that the bird is call shy, he's just he doesn't hear birds cutting and and doing all this crazy stuff. You know they're they. He hears them clucking and yelping right that's it.
Zack Rhoades:So I think people are over aggressive with their calling. In regards of the type of call that you're doing. If you want to kill a bird in north carolina, if you want to kill a bird in wy, uh, missouri, I've killed him in Missouri with that um, virginia, whatever, wherever, wherever you're at, you want to kill a bird, every bird in North America, every Turkey in North America, will cluck and will Yelp. So, especially late season and these birds that are over pressured, people get too wrapped up in the over calling thing. Just cluck and per, keep it simple, keep, keep it. Keep it simple. It makes sense. Just um and I'll cluck. I'll just sit there and cluck for a minute, minute and a half.
Zack Rhoades:The bird I shot last year it was third week of season on public I I walked by, uh, um, like three or four shotgun shells. I got in there late, I had to get the kids on the bus and so I knew that there'd be hunting pressure in there. But I sat down and I just clucked and I'd do a three-note yelp and I did that for a minute and a half probably, and a bird fired off and that bird was pressured and then, before you know it, and that's all I did, and I finished with him with that, as I just clucking, clucking a double clock every once a while, but soft and, and he came in.
Zack Rhoades:So I think a common mistake people make is that they over complicate calling right um, phil robertson, this isn't about turkeys, but it's about ducks, and it's the same thing. He said ducks, they went. They went placed in a duck calling competition. It's true, a turkey, a turkey ain't gonna place in a turkey calling competition. It's true, a turkey, a turkey ain't going to place in a in a turkey calling competition. But if you can, if you can cluck and you can Yelp, kill, you can kill any Turkey out there If it's if he wants to get killed.
Zakk Plocica:So, key takeaways learn those two those two calls and those two. And just basically get out there and get after it. Yeah, just basically get out there and get after it. Yeah, be aggressive within reason. Yeah, yeah, that all makes sense, man.
Zack Rhoades:With aggressiveness, too, is is is the moment he verified. You have to verify what he's doing, right, a lot of times I'll sit there and I'll move up and I'll wait and I like I had a buddy with me this morning he's like what are we going to do? I'm going to wait for him to gobble one more time and then we're going to move and I I hear him gobbling. I'm like, okay, I've verified that. That's what he's doing is he's pushing left and we're going to go and cut around them. You know what I mean, but I'm not going to move until I can verify that.
Zakk Plocica:So if you're going to be aggressive, make sure you know exactly what he's doing. You know what I mean. You can't be aggressive if he's not gobbling, right. So if they're not gobbling, sit on your butt and wait. Yeah, you know, I got a good piece of advice for people out there. So if you're hunting out of a blind, make sure you practice shooting out of your blind, especially with the bow. So I'm going to give you a little an awesome story I have for my person. So this has been years ago. So I set up a blind uh blind in the bottom of a field edge that was tucked down down a hillside and I had seen turkeys out there, right, so I'd seen a bunch of them. So I'm like, okay, I got permission, I went out there, threw a blind up, set out my little decoys and, dude, sure enough here, we come strutting in buddy and I'm talking, seven yards in front of me, he's right there.
Zakk Plocica:I'm like done, son man, I go, I got to draw this bow back. My elbow hits the rear of the blind, bounces back, indies my arrow through the blind about rips the entire wall out. That was the end.
Zack Rhoades:It was amazing. Can you imagine from his perspective, chaos at seven feet, just chaotic.
Zakk Plocica:It was hilarious and I was like I do not know what just happened, but about ripped the entire damn wall out of the block. It was amazing.
Zakk Plocica:I can imagine if somebody drove by and saw that this blind just like collapsing in. Yeah, yeah, it was awesome man, it was a good time. So if you're, if you're getting in, if you got a blind, make sure you practice shooting out of your blind, because, yeah, don't make the same mistake I did if, uh, if you're running a gun which is what I call it, yep and you have to use the bathroom, make sure you button your pants back up.
Zack Rhoades:That is my, that is. That is another one. I, me and my dad, were hunting and I had to. Oh, my dad, I got to pee real quick and he's like, all right, well, go pee. And that bird fires off while I'm peeing. I'm like, oh, heck, yeah. So we sit down, we get all ready to rock and roll and I forgot to button my pants up and this bird comes in and my dad shoots it, wham, and the bird falls but starts to try to get up. So I, like every turkey hunter, you shoot them and then you get up and you run to them. Well, I am running.
Zack Rhoades:And my pants fall down to my ankles Barrel into the dirt. I tell you I did about three rolls and my dad watched the entire thing. So me and this turkey are rolling around on the ground right next to each other. Got shot? Yeah, it was. It was awful oh, that's amazing.
Zakk Plocica:Yeah, I think everybody's got at least one good story. You have to. Yeah, man, that's awesome, yeah stupid all right, man, we're right at an hour, let's wrap this thing up. So recap it, man. Um, you know, keep it simple.
Zack Rhoades:Don't be relied on the gear. Don't let that bird walk out of your life.
Zakk Plocica:That's right. That's the number one quote of this, of this episode. Don't let that bird walk out of your life five, four or five things.
Zack Rhoades:Um, you can't I don't think you can over call a turkey. Um, when it comes to, comes to that, it's just simple calling soft, quiet. That bird can hear you. I promise you, the bird can hear you. Um, don't let them walk out of your life. Uh, stay vigilant, Um, and uh, get close enough to to to matter. Right, be close enough to matter.
Zack Rhoades:You ain't gonna come to you if you're 400 yards away right not gonna do it, especially late season, um, and you can't kill them from the couch, just go. If you have a rough day and they're not gobbling, or you have a bird and and he doesn't work yet, just go. Go the next day and then the next day if you have work. If you have to do a podcast at 9 o'clock in the morning, go Go anyway, I can hunt until 8 o'clock.
Zack Rhoades:You never know what's going to happen until you try to do it. That's right. That's what I've lived my life by Get after it, get after it.
Zakk Plocica:That's the best approach, man, best way approach life man. Just go ahead, don't overthink it, don't, you know, overanalyze, just just go, just go. That's great. Well, good deal man. Well, I appreciate you taking the time to come on this morning, man. You're full of tons of great information man, tons of experience. Just an outdoorsman man that just really gets it done, puts in the work and it really shows.
Zakk Plocica:I mean it's. It's always fun talking to you. You've given a ton of the guys here really great advice and created a bunch of opportunity for guys here. So we're all appreciate, you know, having you on board, man and you know giving us that insight Absolutely.
Zack Rhoades:So full of it Eat, sleep and breathe honey.
Zakk Plocica:Your entire life. Man, Absolutely.
Zack Rhoades:That, and fishing that and fishing Heck of a fisherman too.
Zakk Plocica:I try. Yeah, yeah, man, I know Gavin was all about it, so he likes fishing with you.
Zack Rhoades:Yeah, well, we put, we get on fish.
Zakk Plocica:No, that's, that's the thing, cause if I take him I'm like bro, I don't know, dude, we ain't getting on fish he got. We went last night. He caught a bunch of bluegill, so that's a win man. He did it himself. That I watched. Hey, it's all right, it is what you guys listening. That's another episode of the archery project where we discuss all things archery, bow hunting, hunting tactics and everything. So appreciate you guys following along. Make sure you share. If you've got any comments, drop some comments, let us know, give us some good turkey hunting stories and we will see you guys in the next episode.