The Archery Project

Healing Through Archery: The Story Behind Endex Archery with Jay McCoy

• Zakk Plocica • Season 1 • Episode 18

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What happens when a bow becomes more than just a tool for hunting or competition? For veterans and first responders battling the invisible wounds of trauma, it can become a lifeline.

Jay from Endex Archery joins us to share the powerful story behind this unique nonprofit. After losing six teammates during a 2015 deployment, Jay found himself spiraling into depression and isolation. His Matthews Creed bow became an unexpected source of healing, allowing him to escape his "trauma goggles" and be fully present for the first time since returning home.

This personal transformation sparked a mission: to provide veterans and law enforcement officers suffering from PTSD with the equipment, training, and community they need to heal through archery. With ambassadors in seven states and over 70 heroes helped so far, Endex is breaking down stigmas around mental health while creating paths to post-traumatic growth.

"Trauma changes you forever," Jay explains. "There's no going back to who you were before. What we're offering is a way forward." Through one-on-one mentorship and full equipment support, Endex Archery guides heroes into the welcoming archery community, where healing happens "shoulder to shoulder" rather than in isolation.

The conversation reveals why archery proves particularly effective for trauma survivors  the required focus, the mind-body connection, and the supportive community all contribute to its therapeutic power. Jay also shares Endex's ambitious vision for a 100-acre "Proving Grounds" facility where heroes can immerse themselves in multiple healing modalities centered around archery.

Whether you're passionate about archery, mental health, or supporting our veterans, this episode offers profound insights into how an ancient practice is providing modern healing for those who've sacrificed so much.

Visit https://endexarchery.org/ to donate, volunteer, or refer a hero to the program.

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Zakk Plocica:

Boom, we're back in the game. Welcome back to the Archery Project guys. I've got Jay from Index Archery here all the way from Virginia.

Jay McCoy:

Yeah, good to be here.

Zakk Plocica:

Dude, appreciate you coming down. We were talking about it a little bit. We're kind of in a unique spot. We got Emerald Isle, Topsail, we're right on the beach. We got a lot of guys that roll through here and you hit me up the other day and you, You're like I'm in town, I want to come by and check out the shop, and I was like man, this is a perfect opportunity.

Jay McCoy:

Yeah, I was chatting with my buddy Cody Griffin.

Zakk Plocica:

Oh yes, the one and only.

Jay McCoy:

Yeah, he's like you're right down the road, Hit these guys up.

Zakk Plocica:

And obviously you know we had talked at PA, so everything just kind of aligned.

Jay McCoy:

No, we did West Virginia and PA this year.

Zakk Plocica:

Yeah, and we're talking about the total archery challenge. So you said you said just West Virginia and PA this year, yeah, so how was it? As far as was this your guys' first time being there?

Jay McCoy:

No, so we'd been going for for years, and Tennessee's used to be one of our favorite. We've been going for years as shooters and in the last two years we've had our index booth set up.

Zakk Plocica:

Yeah, so how has that been for you guys?

Jay McCoy:

It's been great. You know our booth we're not really selling anything. This year we did have some exclusive t-shirts for sale, but typically we just run raffles and our whole goal is to kind of you know, with the military theme right, just make a little R and R outpost for people. They come off the mountain, their feet hurt whatever. They want to drop some gear, to go get food. They can use our booth for that. So we're set up, we've got cold drinks, we've got couches. They can come hang out, chill, you know, and kind of get out of the sun for a little while. So just, you know, that allows for a lot of relationship building. You hear a lot of cool stories. People start learning what we're all about and then they're like, wow, you know, and they've got something to add to that. So it's been great.

Zakk Plocica:

Yeah, good man. So let's, let's go ahead and jump right in it into it. So, index Archery, what is Index?

Jay McCoy:

Yeah, so I'll start with the name first. You know, Index is a military or law enforcement phrase for end of exercise, and for me it's ending the exercise and futility. That is a lot of our brothers and sisters' approach to mental health. It's ending the exercise in drugs, alcohol, self-isolation, risky behavior or God forbid a pistol in the mouth. So it's all about providing a healthy coping mechanism through archery. It's about connecting them with a community, something that a lot of veterans and and former first responders are missing whenever they leave the job. And it's about some physical wellness as well, getting them outside, out in the outdoors and active again. So it's those three things. We we primarily work with people with post-traumatic stress and we target veterans and law enforcement the heaviest just because we're trying to curb the suicide rates in those communities. But anyone with post-traumatic stress, and as long as archery is going to be the right therapy for them, is welcome into our program.

Zakk Plocica:

Yeah, that's cool. So to really get into, I mean, what brought the idea on for you? I mean so your background you were prior Air Force and law enforcement Correct, are you still active law enforcement?

Jay McCoy:

No, I left. I was FBI up until September and I just recently left that job. And then, well, I guess I'm in the reserves with the Air Force, still as a special agent. So I still have a foot in the door. But I don't know, being a reservist it doesn't really count, right, but I was active duty for 12 years, so kind of the genesis for this. It's actually a really cool story because I was stationed with my co-founder in Alaska from 2013 to 2016. So we both had very similar backgrounds in the military but completely different paths as far as our own personal trauma, he was a child forensic interviewer for the Air Force, and then a lot of my stuff comes from a deployment in 2015, where I lost six of my teammates and but just on top of that, you know those would be our big ones, I'd say. But then on top of that, just you know, a career for me. It's been 18 years in military and law enforcement work, so just a career of being exposed to. You name it Right. Yeah, that's that's. I guess that's our genesis.

Jay McCoy:

So I come back from that deployment in 2015 in a really bad spot making all the wrong choices, right I'm, I'm staying up late at night every night, drinking, cause that's how I could go to sleep, right. And then I'm sleeping until two the next day and before my wife and kids come home from school, I'm, you know, right. And then I'm sleeping until two the next day and before my wife and kids come home from school, I'm, you know, I'm grabbing clean dishes out of the closet and throwing some ketchup on them or something and throw it in the in the sink to make it look like I've been up and productive all day. Uh, so you know, a lot of survivor's guilt, depression, ptsd, all that stuff. Um 2019, I left the military and I was I'm just a fade into the shadows kind of guy. I don't want to go. In a way, I don't, I don't plan to have a retirement ceremony into that stuff. Um, so I'd made that known and Ray, my co-founder, him and another buddy that we were stationed with in Alaska, had found out that it was my last day on active duty. I'm leaving. So, uh, they came in from I think one was in Texas, one was in Arkansas. So, anyway, I come home from work that last day, you know I'm done. I walk into my kitchen and these two clowns are in the kitchen cooking dinner. So they, you know, they planned it with my wife to surprise me.

Jay McCoy:

So over that weekend we're just sitting out on the front porch drinking bourbon one night and, you know, ray asked me how I'm doing with everything and I told him, you know, like archery has been really great for me. It's been very therapeutic and it's, you know, it led to a lot of good. And he's like dude, me too, you know. So we start kind of talking about our stories and how we've been using archery to cope, and I guess that was the the idea that birth index.

Jay McCoy:

Shortly after that conversation I went to the FBI Academy graduate get sent to Virginia, and I think I'm in Virginia for like a week and I called him up and I was like hey, dude, here's what we're going to do.

Jay McCoy:

We're going to start mentoring dudes. We're going to show them, you know, what archery has has given us. Um, you know, and his response was sweet what do you need from me? You know he was, he was in from the get-go. Um started doing that. And about the third person that I convinced that archery was going to be therapeutic for them and walk them into a bow shop like this one and watched them pull out their debit card or their cash or whatever and drop, you know, around two grand on a setup. It made me feel like crap and I said you know, if I'm going to be helping dudes and girls and if this is what we're doing, then I need to find a way to pay for this. So in 2023, we finally started the nonprofit officially and since then our goal has been to pay for 100% of the equipment that these heroes that come in our program need to get started in archery.

Zakk Plocica:

That's awesome, man, I mean. So it's with the archery side of things. How did you end up in archery, though? Were you a bow hunter Like? Did you like? Oh man, I just wanted to get into bow hunting. You're like, oh you know, buddies are doing it. Like how did you end up in the archery side of things versus literally anything else?

Jay McCoy:

Right, yeah, no, that's a great question. Cause Ray and I were both firearms instructors in the military, so it could have very easily gone that route, uh, and I'm glad we didn't. I don't think I knew a kid in elementary school that didn't hunt. I was also in scouting, all that stuff. Archery played a very early role and I was always fascinated with archery, but I'd say the real start was in 2011. I PCS'd from New Mexico to Alabama and said hey, we're back down south, I'm going to start whitetail hunting again. I want to get a new gun.

Jay McCoy:

So me and my wife and my small kids were at Bass Pro Shops. I'm looking at I think it was a Remington 270, but it might have been a Winchester. Anyway, I'm looking at rifles and I didn't have a dedicated hunting rifle. Checking them out, the wife is like, hey, look, we've got a two-year-old. We've got twins that are a couple months old. They're going to be crawling around soon. Not sure if another gun in the house is great until we get a safe. I'm like all right, that's cool.

Jay McCoy:

So right next to the gun counter at Bass Pro is the archery counter. So I'm just browsing, looking at bows. I make a couple comments like, oh, that would be cool. You know, my grandfather bow hunted, bow hunting, uh, but I just, we just kind of left it at that. You know, we leave bass pro shop and the plan is for me to buy a safe and then buy a 270 308, whatever, some kind of deer hunting rifle. Well, a couple weeks later this was in november a couple weeks later I come home from work and, uh, underneath the christmas tree that's in the living room is clearly a bow shaped package that's all wrapped up. So my wife had bought me a psc stinger as my first bow, one of their ready to hunt packages.

Jay McCoy:

I'm sure oh boy, so many people start out there.

Zakk Plocica:

Right, we've gone through, I mean the psc stingers, the stinger maxes and then the bear series, like that's like your entry level bow, that everyone kind of gravitates that was it. You know they're great bows dude getting into the game. The stinger has been dude. We've sold a bajillion of those things it's a fantastic bow to get started with and, honestly, very reasonably priced.

Jay McCoy:

Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, it's got everything you need. So yeah, started there, started shooting. At the time I was a firearms instructor in the military, so you know my day job was wake up, teach a class, go out and qualify a bunch of airmen, and then I pulled my bow out and we'd shoot on the range. Me and a couple other guys really got ingrained there. I upgraded to a Matthews Creed just before going to Alaska. I knew the hunting out there. I was just going to need something with a little bit more power, a little bit more speed. And I say the Creed is a bow that saved my life, because that's, you know again, when I came back from that deployment, that's the bow that kind of snapped me out of that depressive state and got me going.

Zakk Plocica:

So we'll go back a little bit. You got this new bow, you. You open it up. Who set it up?

Jay McCoy:

So that's yeah. That's. The funny story is she talked to the guy at Bass Pro at the at the archery counter, and he put a peep in it. He did everything right. So it was a ready to hunt package, but and that's why I say not all bow shops are created equal right, so it was a ready to hunt package, but and that's why I say not all bow shops are created equal right? Because would you ever sell a bow to some dude's wife and tie a peep in? No, you'd be like, hey, I need that guy in here.

Zakk Plocica:

Yeah, there's a lot more to it, than what's and that's one of the things, a big thing for us, right the education side of things, right, because archery can be overwhelming for a lot of people, especially because you just don't know what you don't. You don't know what you don't know Absolutely. And you know we get guys that come in or wives we see this a lot during the holidays. I want to buy my boat, my husband, a bow. I'm like, well, you know, that's a great idea, but do you have any idea? I mean, cause we need to know draw length. Is he going to fit this thing Right? You know, maybe buy him a gift card. You know, come back and do it that way, cause we see a lot of guys they'll pick up a bow and they'll, you know, we've had guys come in that are right-handed, that buy a left-handed boat, didn't even realize that it was a left-handed bow. Yeah, there's a big learning curve there. So that's one of our big things is like the education side of things.

Jay McCoy:

So you can, and they did a decent job. You know, uh, you know, in the military you've always got all this paperwork laying around. So she knew my exact height, 68 inches. So she, you know, she tells the guy and, um, he's like, oh well, he's probably around a 28 inch draw and I was, uh, the peep height. You know, I think it was a little off. It made me anchor a little bit.

Jay McCoy:

Weird, but know, funny story. There is I, I could pull a bow back in the store because, you know, I demoed the exact bow she wound up buying me while we were there. Um, pull it back in the store, just fine, she gets home, she wraps it Christmas day. I'm opening this thing up. I go out to a field to shoot and I can't draw it back. You know, now it's December, it's cold, I got all this clothing on and I'm panicking because, again, I'm brand new to archery and I'm thinking she just spent all this money on this great present and I can't even use it.

Jay McCoy:

And then, I think it was the next day I jumped on like Google or whatever, and was like, hey, you know what to do if a bow is too heavy. And I learned, oh, it's just back out the limb bolts and that's really been a start for me. You know, like that moment was the tinkering. You know I've got an addictive personality. And then you know, one of those side effects of PTSD is you tend to hyperfixate on things. And that's why, again, archery is great for me, because whether it's tuning a bow, tinkering with a bow, building arrows you know I haven't built strings yet but I've played around with it and that's another hole, another rabbit hole that you can go down to to get some benefit from archery other than just shooting.

Zakk Plocica:

Right, yeah, there's a lot that goes into it and we noticed that. So you do a lot, all your own tuning and setup and everything. Now I do, yeah. Yeah, we've noticed a lot of people, because a good bow shop is hard to come by, really depending on where you're at, and that's one of the things that we've noticed with these events that we go to is there's a lot of guys that really gravitate towards YouTube or you know, articles or whatnot, to get educated on how to do this stuff themselves, because they don't have access to a great shop. So we've noticed more and more and more, especially at PA this year, the more guys I talk to, the guys that are really into it, they're all doing their own work now.

Jay McCoy:

Yeah, Well, I think it's a testament to the archery community, right? Because in a lot of industries, you've got gatekeepers and you've got guys who don't want to tell you the secrets, Whereas you look at the archery community, you got you guys on YouTube. You've got guys like John Dudley, you know Crispy these guys who could monetize this stuff, but don't they put it out there for free, and they have really in-depth videos on how to do just about anything. Yeah, it's pretty incredible.

Zakk Plocica:

It is. I think that's the great thing about the archery community as a whole. Every time we go to an event that's out of state, completely away from where we're from, and we meet people, it's like the most welcoming community, absolutely. It's weird because online it doesn't seem that way. You look at the social media and stuff. You see some of the comments. You're like man, this is this industry. Maybe there's a little bit, I don't know. But then you go and you actually go to these events and you meet everybody and everybody's super cool, even like you know your high profile guys within the industry, right, the kind of the leaders, the John Dudley's, the Chris B's, any of those guys. You go over and talk to you about anything and everything. We watched when we were in seven Springs at total archery in Pennsylvania this year. I mean John Dudley was sitting down having lunch with some guy.

Jay McCoy:

Yeah.

Zakk Plocica:

It's just cool man, it's a. It's a good community, for sure.

Jay McCoy:

Right, yeah, now the, the, the people that will take the time to make you better. And I heard something really cool. I think it was Josh Jones that was talking about it, but he's talking about the ASA circuit as well, and he was, you know. His point was like, hey, if you're an average guy, just go to an ASA and shoot in the pro class and the chances are you'll be shooting with one of these big names, you know, the Levi's, the Dan McCarthy's, those guys and he's like the thing you'll find is they'll help you your best so they can beat you at your best.

Jay McCoy:

Right you know, and it's like man, that's cool.

Zakk Plocica:

It is man. So one of our guys, one of my lead techs, his name is Cody, he just did one of the IBO shoots in West Virginia and that's what he said. He's like man, you end up just with that. You just get put with the top guys and everyone there Obviously everyone there, obviously everyone there is to shoot, to win or place or whatnot, but they're everyone is super willing to just, you know, aid you with whatever way they possibly can. Absolutely yeah, it's a great dude. I love the archery community for that reason. Man, we've none. We've just met so many incredible people. I mean, and the amount of, for example, index coming into the archery side of things. We see a lot of non-profits, right, there's a lot of non-profits that are out there that are doing good um, but I think that the whole thing with index is very cool because of how archery works. It's consistent, it's it's not a one and done right.

Jay McCoy:

yeah, I tell people, if, if all they, you know, if we hook a guy up with a bow and if all he ever does is shoot that bow, he's getting therapy and it's working. But when you start adding in, like I said, that community aspect, um, that's the gift we're giving them is. People talk about how much fun total archery challenge is, and whether you shoot the courses or not, whether you're just hanging out in the vendor village or whether you are a vendor, right, I think everyone walks away from that event so full and it's the atmosphere and the community that make it that way and that's part of the gift that we're giving to people and that's why I say I'm very thankful it was this community and not the firearms community, just because it's different. There's a lot of fun to be had in the firearms community, but it's just not the same. It's not the same level of fun for me. I'll agree with you on that, dude, don't get me wrong. Not the same.

Zakk Plocica:

It's not the same level of fun for me. Um, I'll agree with you on that, I do, don't get me wrong, I love guns, like I like shooting like a long range stuff. Um, but the archery community, it's, I'll agree with you, man, it's different. Uh, so, starting this nonprofit right, what were some of the biggest challenges to getting this thing up off the ground for you guys? Cause it's not just you, you got a partner involved in this.

Jay McCoy:

Right, um, yeah, it was. I say the whole process of getting off the ground was a bit of a challenge. Just because I've got no background in this, right Like, I consider myself a pretty smart guy. You know, I'm a trained investigator and all that stuff. Um, I know how to figure things out, but there was a lot of figuring out to do, uh, and I'll give a shout out, uh, but there was a lot of figuring out to do, and I'll give a shout out, speaking of TAC, to Warrior Rising, who's always at TAC, right, dude. So Tommy, yeah, tommy Indara.

Zakk Plocica:

Awesome.

Jay McCoy:

So the first TAC event Ray and I went to, we were just shooters. It's in Tennessee and we come across Tommy in this Warrior Rising thing and they're helping entrepreneurs. And I'm like, hey, we're trying to start a nonprofit. And I'm talking with him and Dara and he's like, hey, well, that's not what we do. You know we don't have a program for nonprofits, but reach out to us and we'll see what kind of resources we can get you.

Jay McCoy:

And they sent me towards a Facebook page that was just full of veterans starting nonprofits and you know that was the start for us one. It gave me the confidence to say, okay, I can do this, I don't need to hire a lawyer and all this stuff, I can do this on my own and save some money. But one of the biggest things there was some advice that I got from the Facebook page and it was if you're starting a nonprofit, first you have to start it in your state that it's going to be incorporated in. Then everything goes to the federal level at the IRS, and the IRS is looking for very specific verbiage in your articles of incorporation that the state may give you a checkbox, but once it gets over to the IRS, if that's lacking, then they're going to deny it, then you've got to start the process all over again. So just something as simple as that. You know, not having to deal with that hurdle that a lot of people have gone through was huge.

Jay McCoy:

And again that came from within the archery community to say, hey, start this. Yeah, so I've been able to lean on a lot of resources, but I guess that was the challenges. Right is writing the articles of incorporation, learning state law, and I'm still learning things right now. When we applied for our tax exempt status, we'd already been a nonprofit for two years and I find out there's this other paperwork that is in the state of Virginia. It's the department of agriculture that runs this, but it's your your right to solicit donations. You know, I didn't even know this existed. So now I'm freaking out and I'm like, oh I've you know I'm going to be in huge trouble.

Jay McCoy:

And so I write to the state and I'm like, hey, I've got to fill out this form and we've been receiving donations. And then the lady from the state she's like it's fine. She's like you're applying for your tax exempt right? I'm like, yes, ma'am. She's like that's when everyone learns about us for the first time and we've had nonprofits that have been operating for 10 years before they finally found out we exist and you're supposed to have approval to solicit donations. So it's just little things like that. There's a lot of nuance to it and there's a lot of laws and it depends on, again, the state that you're incorporated in and what you're trying to do. But yeah, it was building. That part has been the challenge I say. Everything else, you know, has been fairly easy. We're still small, we're growing, but the community has been still welcoming and with us being a lot of our hero's first step in archery, right, we're looking for the people who've never even picked up a bow.

Jay McCoy:

There's competition in the nonprofit world, but there's not a lot of competition for us and it's our willingness to work with other nonprofits, because if I'm a guy's day one, well then I turn around and I look at. You know, my good buddy, tony Cowden, runs the Reason Outdoors, another nonprofit. They take veterans and first responders on hunts. Well, that's not my thing, you know, but I can take a guy, train him up, and a year from now, when he's ready to start hunting, I pass him off to the Reason Outdoors or Operation Pay it Forward or maybe archery's not working for him. So then I send him to Project Healing Waters and now he's learning fly fishing and and that's the therapy he needs.

Jay McCoy:

So for us it's been a huge partnership between nonprofits and also companies. You know, one of the things that we love to do is bring rival companies like. Two of our sponsors are Gaspo Strings and America's Best Bow Strings. You know fierce rivals, fierce competitors in the archery industry, but they come and sit at the same table in their mutual support for veterans and first responders. Same thing with Excel sites and HHA sites. You know they're going to be hosting the prayer breakfast this year at ATA together and coming to the table in support of us and for veterans, you know. So I think it's really cool to be able to bring those partnerships together too.

Zakk Plocica:

Yeah, that's interesting, man, that's awesome that these companies are willing to kind of put things aside and do that for the greater good. I think it's important. So with this you've you've started this. This thing's up off the ground. You're based out of Virginia, Yep. Where else is cause you guys have? Like, are they like I don't know, I didn't know what to call them Like you have guys outside affiliates that are, you know, representing you guys outside of just virginia, correct?

Jay McCoy:

yeah, so we have ambassadors in seven states. Okay, um, and I consider my co-founder because he's still active duty, so he's in, uh, just outside dayton ohio. Um, we've got some guys right down here, some guys out of camp lejeune I know ryan potts is here.

Jay McCoy:

Yep, ryan, we're bringing on one of his buddies, jason. He just got brought on and there's a growing community here with what Ryan wants to do and you should have him on sometime once that gets started too, because he's going to be partnering with Intrepid Spirit and Center Shop Blue to get something going in this area. We've got guys in Utah, texas, colorado, wisconsin, and I'm probably leaving somebody out, but we're growing this network of ambassadors, with the point being they grow the mission of index in their local community.

Zakk Plocica:

So are you guys typically based around bases?

Jay McCoy:

It happens a lot that way. Right now. Most of our ambassadors are people we know through our military and law enforcement network.

Zakk Plocica:

Yeah, so a lot of military base affiliation. Yeah, that's awesome. So, as far as when did you notice that this thing was really starting to work? Like you're like, oh, we're making an impact now, like you can actually see the return. Or you know, you've worked with somebody and you're like, wow, this really changed their life. Is there a particular moment where you're like this is going to be a thing, this is going to be big, big, big?

Jay McCoy:

Yeah, that was always a question. You know cause? Cause, obviously I consider myself patient zero. You know, it had a huge impact on me and it worked for me. So I knew it could work, um, but would it? Would it work for everyone or anyone else other than me?

Jay McCoy:

But it was immediate. You know, the first person that I worked with hooked them up with a bow. Two months later I'm getting text messages and it's just like I can't thank you enough, type of thing. And those conversations and and I say you know we are selective and the heroes that we choose, we have to, we have to make sure that, again, the archery lifestyle is going to fit with them, because I can give somebody a bow and then it just sit in their living room for the next five years. It's not doing anything. But yeah, I say every rep that we get, every hero that we work with, we get that instant feedback. You see it, when people come in here and they shoot a bow for the first time, right, you see how their face lights up and how excited they get. It's tenfold whenever someone's been battling something, looking for a way out, and they find that instantly in that first shot.

Zakk Plocica:

Yeah, we've noticed. So obviously we're right outside of Camp Lejeune, so biggest Marine Corps base on the East Coast. We get a lot. That's the majority of our in-store traffic, right, I would say it's like 95% active duty guys, retired guys, prior guys that come through our door.

Zakk Plocica:

Uh, and one of the things when we first started this, we worked with wounded warrior battalion a little bit and, um, actually majority of my staff is either active duty or, um, retired guys.

Zakk Plocica:

And that's how I was introduced to someone was through wounded warrior battalion and one of the guys being his name was Josh Zitzman Awesome dude. But he, he got into the archery side of things through wounded warrior battalion and I mean it consumed him and then he came over, we met, he started working for us and you know archery was a massive part of his life for a long time until he kind of moved away, met, he started working for us and you know archery was a massive part of his life for a long time until he kind of moved away and he started something else. But we've noticed the same thing man, archery just has it's people just once. They kind of gravitate towards it. It really I mean just opens, opens their eyes and you know, really changes things for them. I don't know exactly what it is, but I mean we see it every day. It seems like.

Jay McCoy:

Yeah, no, archery is powerful, you know, and it's that mind-body connection that's required for archery. And you know, for me it was. I like to call it trauma goggles, Like when people go through something, you put on a mask, where that mask has these goggles and while you're walking around daily life or whatever it's that, whatever happened, you know, for me it was, it was December 21st 2015 is just that I'm seeing through that lens. It's everywhere. I can't take them off.

Jay McCoy:

And that that first time after that, when I went and shot that that Matthew's Creed, I was still wearing the goggles for that first arrow and I missed my target completely and I prided myself on being a pretty good shot. And, uh, you know, it was just like something in my head clicked, I had those goggles, came off and for the next two hours, I was just locked in shooting a bow. You know, putting together good groups and it's through that process because in order to shoot a bow effectively, you got to be dialed in and solely focused on that bow. If you're thinking about something else, it's not going to work out and, um, that's you know. That's one of the many reasons why it's effective.

Zakk Plocica:

So I mean there's tons. There's all kinds of therapy dudes can go through, girls can go through. I mean there's, you name it. I mean somebody is out there selling something, giving something away. But what makes this different than standard, like just go sit down and talk?

Jay McCoy:

Well, um, you know, there's. There's a lot of different, uh kind of catchy catchy phrases out there, but one that I like the most is that men heal shoulder to shoulder. Um, and when you, when you take someone and you start instructing them in archery, um, you're, you're doing that activity, you know it's, it's, you're kind of setting it up, hey, this is an adventure, you know, and there's all these possibilities, and it is that shoulder to shoulder aspect for men. Women, on the other hand, it says that they heal face to face, and I think what my wife is building with Index Roses is more of the community aspect and it is some of that face-to-face. But sure, yeah, talk therapy works for some people. It didn't work for me, you know, when I started seeing a therapist actually seeing a therapist the first one it was through the military right and it was talk therapy and I got nothing out of it.

Jay McCoy:

And for you know, I do gravitate to those alternative, uh, modalities for healing, and that's actually our long-term goal is to build a wellness center in central Virginia.

Jay McCoy:

We're going to call it the index archery proving grounds and it's going to be a five-day retreat for our heroes. Uh, it's archery centric, right, so they come in day one, you build a bow, you start teaching them how to shoot, but they may have two hours in them before they need a break, right? So then you roll into another alternative treatment method. Maybe it's ice baths and sauna treatment, maybe it's yoga, maybe it's meditation, a form of art therapy. You know where we build an arrow and we have them destroy that arrow. Maybe you shoot a steel buck at 50 yards with an arrow that you just built and channeled some of that negative thinking into and you watch that thing explode. So at the end of this five-day experience, they walk away with a bow and an understanding of how to use it, but then maybe two or three other tools in their tool belt to be able to turn to, instead of again, the alcohol, the drugs or whatever they were using before to cope.

Zakk Plocica:

Yeah, that makes sense. It seems like there's a lot of programs that it's like you go out and you do this one thing and that's kind of the end of it, and then you're back to square one. That's where it seems like there's some difference. When it comes to index. It's not just you go, you do this thing, you hang out with these guys for two to four days and then you go back and you're alone. It's that network that this kind of really creates and then, once you get into the archery side of things, hitting back on it, it's constant. It's constantly growing, constantly learning, constantly tinkering.

Jay McCoy:

Right and thankfully, you know, I've lived a life or had a career that's exposed me to a lot. So, like you mentioned, wounded Warrior Battalion, every branch of the military, and I just want to, you know, let the listeners know there's a lot of people familiar with Wounded Warrior Project, which is a nonprofit that does good for veterans, but the Wounded Warrior Battalion or Wounded Warrior Program, in each branch of the military, whenever you are exiting the military and you have, you know, some disabilities, whether that's mental health related, physically disabled, whatever or whenever you're injured, you go through recovery. You know people can go to the Wounded Warrior Battalion. They're assigned there as their day job and it's filled with, again, all those different wellness modalities, so archery being one of them. I know in Alaska they they put on a workshop for fly tying which was very therapeutic for people and they would make these amazing dry flies that were colored and looked like different metals. You know there was a bronze star, a purple heart, all this stuff. So through Wounded Warrior Battalion, people are finding activities that are also therapeutic.

Jay McCoy:

And then, when I was in the FBI, if you are involved in a shooting or some type of mass casualty or something like that, they send you to their version of it called the post-critical incident seminar. And for me, that's where the idea of the proving grounds really started was was my PCIS trip again five-day trip, and you're just exposed to so many things. You know group therapy sessions, but then all these other. I did Tai Chi while I was there, because there's some that you know you're going to be interested in, right, you pick those classes, but then the way the FBI does, it is your last two days there are kind of open blocks for four hours and they're like hey, here's a list of things and we encourage you, pick one or two that you know you'll like, but pick some that you think you'll hate, just so you can at least experience it, otherwise you wouldn't Right.

Jay McCoy:

And one of them for me was art therapy and I'm like, all right, well, I don't know, I'm not an artist, but I'll go sit through this just to experience it. And it wound up uh, it was incredible. You sit down, you've got paints, colors, uh, markers, whatever, and you just start doodling on a page. You know you've got a therapist, they're kind of walking you through it, but whatever comes to mind. So I wound up just making this blob of different colors and I'm shading them all together and it kind of looks like oil on water type of thing.

Jay McCoy:

And at the end of like a 45 minute session she's like all right, you guys satisfy with your drawings, does it look pretty? You know, did you get? Did you get on paper what you wanted? And I'm like, yeah, I'm actually kind of proud of this thing. She's like cool, now crumble it up and we went through this exercise of crumbling this thing, you know, open it back up, whatever. And then at the end you just kind of shred it into a million pieces and you throw it in the trash can. And like I felt a genuine relief when I walked away from that session and I was like, holy crap, that worked Well. Then I get home and I turn that into well, you know, adams Precision Archery has all these fancy wraps.

Jay McCoy:

Or you know, pick a company right, maybe I can build an arrow with all these wraps, that kind of. Maybe the wrap speaks to me and what I'm feeling or what I experienced, I can fletch it up. You know, I can build that arrow, channel some of that negative energy into it and then go shoot into a steel target, like I said. Or you know, if you have a safe space, if you've got a thousand acres of farmland, like I do have access to, sometimes, just launch that thing and forget about it, and there is a relief to that release if that makes sense.

Zakk Plocica:

It does. So do you notice a lot of the guys or girls that come to this? I mean, what's the? Obviously there's trauma, we know that. But what's the missing piece? Is it purpose? Is it lack of coping skills? Like why, like what? Do you see that is the common kind of like issue that, after they've gone through this, what are?

Jay McCoy:

they missing, whether you were in the service or you've never served, and you're someone who's dealt with trauma, people don't want to talk about it and people don't feel like whatever they went through is valid. You know, because I'll use myself as an example. Like I said, my big one is I lost six of my teammates, but I know dudes who lost 30 of their teammates. So who am I to talk when you know that guy's got it worse? You know you take a girl who survived domestic violence. She's like, yeah, I survived domestic violence, but I never went to war.

Jay McCoy:

What we do is we try to break that stigma down, and it's one. You know the military does not have a copyright on PTSD, but that's where most people's minds go when you say something trauma-related. You say PTSD, they instantly think military. And it is true, right, military members and first responders. They experience trauma about 4,000 times in their career, but the average person will experience trauma at least four times in their lifetime. So trauma is everywhere and it's giving those people a voice, giving those people that understanding, um, and and using our stories and the stories of the heroes that came before them to say like, hey, your trauma is valid, it is normal and there's a way out of it as well, and it's not what you may think. It is that makes sense.

Zakk Plocica:

So with that nonprofits, one of the things that seems to be pretty normal now is how everything is kind of glamorized.

Zakk Plocica:

right, there's money to be made in these nonprofits, yeah we see it we see it a lot where you know these nonprofits will stand up and they know there's opportunity in it and it's and that's one of the the the things that we've kind of had to navigate, and I think a lot of companies have to navigate right what's the right nonprofit to work with, how do you validate them, how you know what's their actual end goal? Have you seen that in your space? You like, you're like wow, that I mean.

Jay McCoy:

Yeah, not all nonprofits are created equal and we just know that, right, I'm not going to mention any names, but there are some who are definitely more mission driven. If you want to be competent and have an effective nonprofit, it usually takes a CEO, that CEO mindset, to run this. So some of them, let's say I'll talk about Folds of Honor, because they're everywhere right now they're doing a very good job. I think their mission is killer, right? They, if you don't know, folds of Honor provides scholarships for Gold Star and Gold Shield families, meaning the wives and kids or husbands and kids of you know, fallen service members and first responders. They pay for their schooling. They're doing a lot of good stuff. That nonprofit, I think last year, maybe the year before, based on their numbers, they brought in about $5 million.

Jay McCoy:

The president and CEO of that nonprofit. He makes a CEO salary, right, he's doing pretty good for himself, but it's because he, knowing the business world, is able to effectively use that $5 million and maximize that money to do as much good as possible. Whereas you take some guy off the street, you hand him a $5 million budget and you say, go well, we see what has happened with that with some nonprofits and it leads to okay, some of the money's going to the mission, but well, I think I need a new house and I think I need a new car and all this stuff. So a lot of people look at organizations like you can take folds of honor and say, man, this guy's salary is pretty crazy. Well, it's in line with what a CEO of a $5 million company should be making and he's doing a really good job with that money. He's doing a lot of good.

Jay McCoy:

So, yeah, I think, when it comes to people like you, right, I learned very early on as a nonprofit. I thought I had this really cool original idea. We needed merch for our nonprofit. So I hit up this company and I'm like hey, man, you make hats, I can't afford these hats, but I'm a nonprofit, so I can give you this piece of paper and you can write off all the expenses. And this guy messaged me back and I and I thank him for this because his first response I thought he was kind of being a dick, but he wasn't, he was just dropping some knowledge. And basically the theme of the conversation was like yeah, dude, you and everybody else he's like, I get hit up by probably a thousand nonprofits a week wanting something for free and again that was. That was like two weeks into us being a gut check man, yeah.

Zakk Plocica:

And that's the thing for us. We, like, you know, and that's where, like, building the relationship with a nonprofit, I think, is so important. Right, because that's the thing. Every, I mean we're a small business, right, I don't have unlimited, if I dude, if I could give out money and stuff, of course, right, we, we would do a lot more, but we have to be selective with the ones that we work with. And you know, building that relationship and a partnership that's mutually beneficial for both parties is important, you know, especially for the small businesses. So many come to you and you're like just write it off. I'm like, bro, just write it off.

Jay McCoy:

Just write it off, just write it off.

Zakk Plocica:

Man, that's the solution. We joke about it all the time here. Like you run a business, just buy it and write it off, no big deal.

Jay McCoy:

Right, and I've learned a lot, too, aboutery industry. When they look at the price of some of this equipment, they think that you guys are just making all this money. Right? If people truly knew the profit margins on a bow. Right, you make nothing on a bow especially. You know, if the bow doesn't sell this year, there's a new one coming out next year. And now you got to mark that one down a hundred $200, you know, and it's like well there goes all your profit.

Zakk Plocica:

Yeah, there's so much risk in this. I mean, you have to be able to forecast and you know ahead of time when it comes to buying. Yeah, and we assume all that risk every time and it's like everywhere, like man. Hopefully Archie continues to move forward.

Jay McCoy:

Yeah, so that those are all really good lessons to learn and ultimately change my perspective on how we want to operate as a nonprofit. There are times where I will reach out to a shop, like for you, you know I reached out. Hey, if we have a hero come through, can you offer that guy a year of free range time? And I don't, I don't even know what you guys spend, but like most shops, they charge people. Hey, it's $5 an hour or 25 bucks a week or whatever their program is. Hey, we got a new hero coming in. I've got an ambassador that's going to come and work with them. And I do that because now I'm not asking you for three hours of your time, which in this industry, time is money, right. So I'm going to send an ambassador in there. Can you use your range?

Jay McCoy:

Usually that's an easy one for shops to say sure, if a shop's doing really good or maybe their rep had thrown in some stuff, it's like, hey, we see what you're doing, we'll throw in a target, we'll throw in six arrows, whatever. But it's never expected. But what we look for in a bow shop partner is that shop who, when a guy comes through the door, there's an employee there to be like, hey, do you need help? What can I do for you Versus some of the shops that I've even been into, even in, even in my local area? You walk into the shop, they look at you and they go back to whatever they were doing the conversation they were having with their buddy and you can wander around the shop for three hours and no one will ever say a thing to you Again. If I, if I have a hero and I linked them with an ambassador, I'm like, hey, ambassador, and I'm like, hey, your closest shop is Extreme Outfitters.

Jay McCoy:

There's going to be a lot of, I guess, nervousness going on because archery is so foreign to these people. You know, I'm not looking for a veteran who's been shooting his whole life and just hooking him up with a new bow. No, I'm looking for the guy who's never even picked up a bow. He has no idea what to do when he comes in here. So we identify the good shops across the country and we partner with them, because we know that when our heroes go in there, they're going to be taken care of. The other aspect for us is we're not really asking for handouts anymore. Yeah, if we're doing some raffles or we have an event coming up. We may hit up a few of our partners, but my goal now is for us to do the work and to show the work and let the companies who believe in our mission come to us. I just think it's better that way because, again, like you said, you get hit up by nonprofits all the time there's always a new one.

Zakk Plocica:

It's amazing.

Jay McCoy:

I was talking to a Bear rep at Total Archery Challenge and he said he got a letter and some guy was getting married. And they wrote to Bear thinking that, like hey, we're getting married. And they wrote to bear thinking that, like hey, we're getting married, so you should give us a free bow, and it'll be in all the wedding photos and bears like are you kidding me?

Jay McCoy:

you're getting married, so you get a free bow, but you know, it's just like it's a good example of they get some wild requests and then there's, you know, just another non-profit like index and they're like, okay, well, there's another one of the thousands who've hit us up and want free stuff.

Zakk Plocica:

Got to weed through them.

Jay McCoy:

Yeah, so our goal is just to do the work and, and I think eventually people will see what we're doing and want to help out. It's like anything, it's like a business. I mean.

Zakk Plocica:

I mean it's the same concept, it just takes time. It takes time to build, to develop, uh, and the people to see what you're doing, and there's a lot of great ways to do that and get that exposure right Obviously, podcasts, working with brands, um, and then doing the work on your end. I mean social makes it so great to be able to reach out to people now and really network and um connect. Uh, I think that's that's one of the best things for us with social at least is just to be able to connect with so many not only customers but businesses and yeah, and it's social free marketing.

Jay McCoy:

You got to get good at it and you got to be consistent with it.

Zakk Plocica:

It's free if you do it yourself.

Jay McCoy:

Yeah, and that's something that I'm learning, you know. I manage our Instagram page. It's hard, it's a it's, it's a grind, it's a lot but it's. But it's also done a lot for us, of course, yeah.

Zakk Plocica:

Yeah, that's awesome man. So we're looking at this. How, of course? Yeah, yeah, that's awesome man. So we're looking at this. How does someone what's the qualifications to to come in to index and get taken care of and go through the whole process? What does it look like beginning again? Is there an application process? Do they just reach out to you? Do you you seek them out? How does it work?

Jay McCoy:

Yeah, so we, we have worked with some people who've reached out through the website, whether it was them directly or someone referring them through our website. But I would say 90% of what we do is and that's why we have the ambassadors right we like to get out into the community Again. Using myself as an example, every Friday in Lynchburg, virginia, we have this staircase called Monument Terrace and it's four flights of stairs and each flight is dedicated to a different conflict, so it's a memorial, if you will. Every Friday, anywhere between 50 and 200 veterans gather there at noon, and they've done it for 2,140-something weeks now. They never miss a Friday. I'm there every Friday. Now, it just happens to be next door to the company I work at now, cloudfit Software, but they support me. I mean, the CEO of that company rearranged major company meetings so that the veterans in our company can go to this event. But I'm there every Friday.

Jay McCoy:

I'm talking to people. I'm active with the American Legion. I'm active with my local Knights of Columbus. It's about being integrated in the community and finding the people who need the help. To me, that's the best way. Ryan, you know the guy here, ryan Potts. He's got a great idea. Not only does he have a connection to Camp Lejeune from his time in the Marine Corps? But partnering with someone like Intrepid Spirit right, you've got sailors and Marines going down there for their TBI clinic, some PTSD work. That's a ready pool of potential applicants and heroes who we can be working with. So that's that's really what the ambassadors are doing when they're doing the work in their community. They're finding people.

Zakk Plocica:

And so whenever you find the person right, you find that guy, that girl that you guys are going to take in. What does that process look like? So they come in, you take them to a bow shop and then you start the process there.

Jay McCoy:

Yeah. So you know, starts with a conversation. We find out, okay, archery is going to be right for you. And then right now, it's a one-on-one mentorship process. So, whether it's going to a bow shop and working through them, or myself and a couple of our ambassadors have a bow shop in our garage now we don't do any retail stuff, but we have on hand everything we need. So for me, you know, I'm about to work with three heroes. They're they're up in Charlottesville, virginia, doing a hyperbaric chamber treatment. When they're done with that, they're coming to me. Uh, I'll have three bows already set up for them and we'll start the work right at my house.

Zakk Plocica:

What's the expectation on their end?

Jay McCoy:

I think it varies. Um, you know, and I think I think it it matters how we message that too. I had a hero one time. I was having lunch with him just before we got started, and one of his questions was has anyone who's come through your program gotten back to the person they were before the trauma? And the answer, that question is no. You know you, trauma changes you forever. It it physically changes your brain, you know. But, yeah, there's no going back. What we offer through index is post-traumatic growth. We're going to help you use archery as a tool to get on a path to healing. And then, through the community, through our support, through our mentorship uh, we're there to help you become what you were meant to be, in, the best version of yourself, whatever that looks like. But we've had people you know. Some of their expectations was hey, this, this archery thing, just seems cool, it just seems fun. And then you surprise them with actually how therapeutic it is and how, how calming and peaceful they feel afterwards.

Zakk Plocica:

Yeah. So what do you expect from them after you start this process with them? Like, do you is there? Like, hey, we need to meet every, every week, every month. We need to continue to check in with each other, like what's the long-term goal with them yeah, so it's going to be different for every person.

Jay McCoy:

The long-term goal for us is, uh, to get them fully integrated into their local archery community, whatever that looks like for them, right, it could be an indoor league, it could be a 3d league, maybe it's bow hunting. We want them integrated. My main expectation is hey, don't stop. You know, I'm going to give you this bow, I'm going to teach you how to shoot, um, and typically for the first couple weeks, I check in quite regularly and then from there, it depends on the hero. If they, if they, need me to continue checking in and doing one-on-one sessions, we're there for for it. Some of them jump right in with hey, I met these guys at Indoor League and now I'm going to start shooting with them every night. But that's my biggest thing is I'm giving you the bow, don't put it down. You know, let this become part of your life, and so far we've been successful there.

Zakk Plocica:

And how long have you guys been around for now?

Jay McCoy:

So we started mentoring in 2019. The nonprofit was official in 2023.

Zakk Plocica:

Okay, cool, and do you have a rough idea on how many individuals who have been through this program or yeah, we're over 70.

Jay McCoy:

I don't have oh, wow, yeah, I always have to sit down and go through and look at the exact count, but I think we're sitting somewhere around 72. Our goal for this year is 20. We worked with four and we just got a partnership with Matthews. We've got 17 mission switches on the way to us, so we're going to crush that goal of 20 and keep pressing forward so, as far as partnering, you guys partner with shops, with manufacturers, with just about anybody who's going to support the mission.

Jay McCoy:

Yeah, and it's. Our goal is, again, it's to. It's to let those whether it's industry partners, bow shops or whatever we want them to show their support for veterans and heroes through us. Um, maybe shops have something else going on and we're not the right partner for them right now, but if, if they're passionate about our mission and they want to show that we're all about it and we highlight that, that's cool. Yeah, that's important.

Zakk Plocica:

Uh, what about as far as your vision for, like, the next, the coming years? I know you talked about creating the facility there in Virginia. Like what is your, do you have a long-term mission or goal that you guys have outlined that you're?

Jay McCoy:

you know you're working towards, yeah, so that that is the goal. Within the next four years I hope to have a hundred acres. It's going to have multiple archery ranges on it. It's going to have cabins. We're going to call these deployments right. So the way it works is five or six heroes are going to be paired with five or six mentors for that week. So I'm going to have 12 cabins built out. We're going to have an indoor space with a mock bow shop. All of the products that are donated to our nonprofit or that we secure through our partnerships are going to be in there.

Jay McCoy:

So Hero and a Mentor again morning one they go into the bow shop and they build that hero's bow together. We're going to have an indoor range, but we just brought on to our board an amazing psychologist we actually she has been the FBI's trauma and sleep expert for the last six years, so she is consulting with us now and helping us build this therapeutic program. That's the goal is to be able to bring people from all over the country to the Index Archery Proving Grounds to get their initial experience and then, when we send them home, back to the ambassador that sent them there, they begin that community work and you know I'll, I'll do that till I'm dead. You know people say hey, you know when do you think you'll retire? Well, if I can get the proving grounds running, and not if, but when I get the proving grounds running, that is retirement for me, because I'll never want to quit that.

Zakk Plocica:

Yeah, I agree. I think purpose is the most important thing. When you find a purpose, I mean it's not like it's not it's not a job, you enjoy it. I mean it's as soon as you quit. I mean you quit work. And I look at my parents. I'm like my dad, is he ever going to retire? No, he'll work until he can't. Because if you don't, I mean, what else do you got?

Jay McCoy:

Right, yeah, and I'm building something again. Like you said, that passion, right. I've got such a fire for this, and our initial goal was if this saves one person's life, it's all worth it. I hope I never find out, though, that we've saved a life, because I'm always driving towards that. If I do find out, then it's like all right, well then, now we're going to save the next person's life, but that's really, for me, that's the gravity and the implication of what we're doing here.

Jay McCoy:

It's cool to say, hey, we're changing lives, but I've literally worked with people who have told me hey, I was about to close that door, I was in that dark room and I was about to close the door. And then now I've got this community of friends, I've got this archery thing I'm a better father, I'm a better husband, I'm a better father, my better husband, I'm a better friend. All because of this and again I put that back on the archery community, the people listening to this, you guys make that possible. It's because this community is so awesome and supportive and uplifting and fun that people say you know what I'll live for. That it's. It's incredible.

Zakk Plocica:

So for you guys now, where is it that you guys need support? Is it funding? Is it gear? Is it volunteers? What is what is needed for you guys to continue to grow? Or where? Where are you guys limited at currently?

Jay McCoy:

Yeah, funding's a huge one, right, and my goal is to attract some corporate sponsorships because the the proven grounds as I just described, right, it's an ambitious goal. It's an ambitious ask. Um, that's got to come from somewhere. We have been fortunate, uh, with the gear stuff, uh, but it's. We started this with used bows and that'll never go away.

Jay McCoy:

If people have, uh, archery equipment that's fairly modern and in good shape and they want that to be put into the hands of a hero, absolutely you can donate those, because even you know, with this partnership with matthews, that doesn't mean I'm getting 17 free bows. It just means that you know they work with me on pricing and I'm able to afford a lot more than I would, as if I was just a guy on the street. Um, but it still costs money. But the donations that people send in, that's that's free for, it's a tax write off for them, it's free for us and it drives our mission forward, uh, so we need support there. We also need support on the backend.

Jay McCoy:

You know, we've got we got a lot of people who, um, they want to be ambassadors, and it's hard for us to bring on ambassadors, cause, again, that's that's more monetary support than I now have to send to that person's community in order for them to actually do anything. So we grow our ambassadors pretty carefully, but what do we do with this hero once they are through our program? They're in the community? I need people who are willing to say, hey, I can take that guy to a 3D shoot and introduce him to that whole world. Or hey, I've got land I can take that guy hunting. Those people really make what we do a continuing process.

Zakk Plocica:

Yeah, I think the archery community is good for that too. I mean, we get guys. So we had a 3d shoot this weekend. Of course it rained, which we talked about.

Zakk Plocica:

It's rained, everything we've. Every event we've been to this year, I feel like, uh, but we had a lot of new guys out and it's cool to watch them come in. You know, you go into a big group of people and you're kind of standoffish, you don't know anybody. But how quick the community is willing to like, hey, no, come with us dude. Yeah, come on, come, come shoot with us, and just how welcome the community is. I think it's a very easy community to to kind of get into and be a part of, just because everybody is so open to bringing new people in, because it's important. If the community is not growing, it's bad for everybody within the industry, right? So, yeah, the archery community as a whole man is an absolutely incredible. But as far as now, how can people listening, watching, get involved with you guys, like or or refer, refer someone to you guys? What's the best way to reach out and make contact?

Jay McCoy:

Um very active on Instagram. So E N, d E X archery on Instagram. You can shoot us a DM um our website, index archeryorg. There's a contact us button there and it'll draft an email. I'd say those are the two easiest ways. You can also just shoot me a text. My cell phone number's on the website. You know, and that may be dangerous, but I think we're still so small right now, but I also want it that way, right, like when you call index, you're not getting, you know a robot, you're not getting some person who you know, some teenager that I hired just to man the phones. You're getting me and and I want to talk about it, yep.

Zakk Plocica:

Yep, that's cool, man. That's important to us, man. The customer service side of things for what we do is what's always been important and I think that's when people see that and they actually get to interact with people behind the scenes. Right, it builds that connection and then that trust and that trust is what's so important with growth and moving forward. With anything you do I mean a business, nonprofit people got to believe in what you're doing and that's very cool that they can text you and harass you.

Jay McCoy:

Yeah, and if people have the desire to support us, we usually have an Instagram fundraiser going or a Facebook fundraiser. There, people can donate anytime through our website as well.

Zakk Plocica:

Very cool, so always available as far as this. So what is this thing taught you? I mean, is there anything that you've really taken away from it? You're like wow, I've learned. I've learned this about myself from being involved in this or starting this thing.

Jay McCoy:

Um, yes, it's. To me, it's been the power of doing what we're doing right now. You know when, when I initially came back from Afghanistan, I was still that guy who believed, like many, like you, don't talk about this stuff, right, it's not. You know, men, just bury this stuff down. Seeking help and telling my story has been one really powerful for me, but it's also been just the feedback that I've gotten hey, man, I heard you tell your story and I was able to open up about mine.

Jay McCoy:

We do have the ability to break those stigmas that people have held for so long about mental health and PTSD. So, learning that, one, I could do it, you know what I mean. And two, learning that that my story matters has been I don't know it's, it's. It's been humbling, I guess, because I don't I'm nobody special, right, I'm just a dude. I'm nobody special, right, I'm just a dude. But the fact that we can just a dude like me can get out there and help people is pretty incredible. And that's the message I have for anybody listening. If you've got an idea in your mind, if you've got a passion on your heart to do something, just make it exist and you can make it good later, right 2019, when we started this, we had a Facebook page that said index archery, and it existed. And to look back at where we are now is incredible. And you may think, hey, I'm just a dude, I'm just a girl, I can't help people, I don't know anything about therapy or mental health. You can't Just get it started.

Zakk Plocica:

That's it, I think it's. It's about the journey. Right, you got to start somewhere. We see that with everything, you just got to put it down, throw it on paper, throw it against the wall and then start working towards it. Because everybody, I think, really gets into this paralysis by analysis, they overthink things and then they just kind of freeze up and they don't do anything with it. I'll notice it with me, with business man. I'm like man, this has got to look a certain way, or we got to have this, and then you sit back. It's like man, we might just go, just go ahead, go, move, move forward. Eventually things will work out like they're supposed to. There's going to be a lot of hard lessons and lessons learned, but they're lessons, I mean, and that's honestly the best way to learn.

Jay McCoy:

Yeah, sometimes it's one step forward, two steps back, but it's that next step that matters. And you take another step forward and yeah that's it All, right, dude.

Zakk Plocica:

So some, I'm going to fire some questions at you. So your first bow you ever shot.

Jay McCoy:

Yeah, psc stinger First compound bow through scouting and all that stuff Sure Recurves or whatever.

Zakk Plocica:

Bear grizzly is the first bow that I can name. As far as a recurve, oh boy, yes, sir, we've seen a few of those, yeah, so, all right, favorite place that you've shot? We're talking archery events. Is there one that you've been to that you just really, really enjoy? It can be 3d local level. It can be totally yeah, I would.

Jay McCoy:

I would say the um q whiffle creek or moore county. Uh, Archers Association in Moore County, North Carolina. Um yeah, just the memories and the friends that I made there has is top.

Zakk Plocica:

Yeah, they do a fantastic job out there, all right. So as far as you have anything that sticks out, as far as the most meaningful thing or event or individual that you've worked with with index, so far, that's really just had an impact on you yeah, um, there's a guy that I've worked with.

Jay McCoy:

He was a sheriff's deputy for 10 years, uh, doing crimes against children. He's now a firefighter, um, and he was the guy that asked me if he could go back to being the person that he was before the trauma. This guy will send me a message, I don't know, once every two, three months, and it'll be a picture of his target with his group or whatever, and just his sentiment, and it could be something as short as hey, I don't say thank you enough for what you've given me, but that guy, he'll send me some texts that just absolutely rock me, because I see it's helping him, I see he gets it.

Zakk Plocica:

Um, and I just you know I love the transformation that I've seen in his life through archery. Very cool man. Last thing, if you could, a dream collaboration for your brand, for index. Is there any like partnership that you just really would be like? Wow, this is incredible.

Jay McCoy:

Yeah, well, you know, getting a partner up with Matthews was that I thought, and I'd emailed Matthews before in the start. But I just thought, hey, we're too small a fish. They do a lot of good stuff, but they're just you know who are, who are we, who am I type of thing. So partnering them with beat would would be huge. There's another one I talked with Chris B and Caitlin Moss while we were at TAC and we'll see if this comes to fruition. But I would love to send them some bow packages and let them find some heroes in their community and film that and put that out there, just because I think they're really good storytellers. I think the content that both of those individuals put out resonates with a lot of people and it gets a lot of eyes. But you know John Dudley he's another great one, right? I'd love to have him come to the Proven Grounds once it's built and be a guest instructor for a week or even a day.

Jay McCoy:

Stuff like that would be cool. You know the people that I look up to in this industry and John's one of them that I look up to in this industry, and John's one of them. Like I said, I've got a bow shop in my garage and it's because I watched the school of knock years ago and started learning all this stuff and it was free. It was free. That's pretty incredible, it is.

Zakk Plocica:

All right, man. So we're going to wrap this thing up one more time. Where can people donate, sign up and reach out to you?

Jay McCoy:

Yeah, so indexarcheryorg, that's E-N-D-E-X. Archeryorg Index Archery Facebook, instagram, across the socials. You can donate online. Our address is on the website. If there's archery gear equipment that you want to send to us, you can mail it out and just shoot us an email so we can get you your tax receipt.

Zakk Plocica:

Too easy, man. Well, jay, I appreciate you coming on making the drive down to Emerald Isle. And then too easy, man well, jay, I appreciate you coming on making the drive down to Emerald Isle. Then come hanging out with me this morning. Absolutely, uh, you know, if you guys are listening, you guys want to reach out. You want to help them. Check out, jay, you can shoot him a text message to his phone, harass him. Uh, check him out on social media. Head over the website indexarcheryorg. Yeah, if you can help him out, they've got some really great guys. Ryan's a good dude man. I enjoy talking with him. You guys obviously are doing some incredible stuff, some great work. And, yeah, I just want to say thanks for taking the time to stop by and educating us on it, and then you know the guys and girls who are listening. Man, Absolutely.

Jay McCoy:

No, it's an honor to be here. Appreciate it Absolutely.

Zakk Plocica:

That's it guys. Another episode of the Archery Project Head over. Check Jay out indexarchery.