The Archery Project

Crossbows Yes or No? Should They Belong in Archery Season?

• Zakk Plocica • Season 1 • Episode 30

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The question isn’t just “Is a crossbow a bow?”—it’s what archery season is supposed to mean. We sit down to unpack New York’s decision to allow crossbows throughout the entire archery season, why the change matters, and how it collides with tradition, ethics, and the rapid march of hunting technology. From shop stories about blown limbs and mis-cocked rigs to real talk about broadhead tuning, safe handling, and shot selection, we focus on the one thing that truly decides outcomes: preparation.

We explore who benefits most from crossbows—new hunters, kids, seniors, and those with shoulder injuries—and why access can strengthen the entire hunting community. At the same time, we challenge the idea that “easier” always means better. Do faster bolts and crank systems encourage risky long shots? Are electronic ranging sights, live trail cams, and blood-tracking apps pushing fair chase too far? We compare the realities of drawing a compound at 20 yards to flipping a safety on a crossbow, and ask whether season structures should evolve—separate windows, tech limits, or combined seasons guided by hunter input and biology.

Our take lands on balance: welcome more people into the woods, raise the bar on education and ethics, and draw lines where technology undermines the hunt rather than where people find a way back into it. If you’ve got strong feelings about crossbows diluting the spirit of bowhunting—or you see them as a vital on-ramp—this conversation is your place to sharpen the argument, not just repeat it.

Enjoy the episode, then tell us where you stand. Subscribe, share with a hunting partner, and leave a review with your best case for or against crossbows in archery season—what line would you draw?

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ZakkPlocica:

All right, guys, is a crossbow really a bow? And should it be long in the archery season? That's what we're talking about today on the Archery Project. I am your host, Zach Laseka, and I've got Kevin Dooling back in the house. Did I say it right?

KevinDooling:

You did. It's great to be back, Zach. It's great to be back.

ZakkPlocica:

I'm glad you're here. I know you've had a rough night.

KevinDooling:

Yeah.

ZakkPlocica:

We were just talking about it. Actually, pretty interesting night, though. Yeah. Um, two five-hour energy drinks, a monster, and now a mountain dew.

KevinDooling:

Yeah. Interesting. We're here for it, you know.

ZakkPlocica:

We're amped up. This is an important topic.

KevinDooling:

Yes. It's big right now, of course.

ZakkPlocica:

It is, it is pretty big. Um, and the thing, the reason this, you know, is important. I think it's important even if you're not a crossbow hunter, right? So there's constantly guys who are for this, who are against it. Uh, and it's something that we just want to talk about. And I think it's important to be up to date on new laws and things like that. And one of the big ones is coming out of New York. Um, and this is for fall 2025, this year, where they are now allowing crossbows for the entirety of the season, right? For the archery season. And I've got a couple notes on it. Um, they are so it it removes any of the older uh constraints, right? There was limb widths, overall lengths, maximum draw weight. Uh, so now the only thing that you've got to have with a crossbow, it's got to have a minimum draw weight of 100 pounds and a working trigger safety. Right. So it removes any of the constraints, which I figured as a whole, I mean that's that's like a standard. But you know, interesting though, we actually have guys had a guy who came in here for a crossbow service. He removed his safety from his bow because it was interfering with him.

KevinDooling:

Oh, sure.

ZakkPlocica:

Which is insane to me.

KevinDooling:

Right, yeah.

ZakkPlocica:

Um, and then it uh it says so there's no limb width uh restrictions, no maximum draw weight, uh draw weight. Um still same thing. You cannot just charge uh crossbow within 250 feet of a home, school building, yada yada yada. Um, but essentially you can run a crossbow all season now, and there's a lot of people that are for that. There's a lot of people that are against that, and I think it depends on how you approach it and what you look at um as a whole. Uh, but it is interesting because, like I said, it's brand new. And I think from what we've seen or what we've observed here is there seems to be an increase in people getting into hunting and an increase in people getting into crossbow hunting in particular. Um what do you think? There's a lot to unpack.

KevinDooling:

Tons.

ZakkPlocica:

And I've got a whole lot of uh questions that we're gonna kind of go through. Um but I I I guess one of my things is just looking at it. I mean, what do you I mean, what are your thoughts as far as crossbow versus vertical bow?

KevinDooling:

I mean, well, I guess you know, I'm I wish everyone would just pick up a conventional bow, you know, at the at the end of the day. Um but at the same time, I I understand its its purpose and how it can be beneficial to to growing hunting, you know. That's really the the pro in my mind when I think of crossbows is how can I how can I introduce someone to hunting that, you know, maybe in the they decided to pick it up in the middle of the season or or whatever the case is. I think a crossbow is is great for something like that, but I think it's uh they just need to make that switch eventually, you know.

ZakkPlocica:

Yeah, um and I go back and forth. So I've got some buddies that are are that that's all they do is crossbow hunt. Um, and they're some killers, man. And I think I think part of the reason where crossbows get a bad name is some of the individuals that get into the into hunting right out of the gate with crossbows, right? They don't take it's a last minute thing, right? When you think bow hunter, a bow hunter is typically somebody that takes time, there's preparation, they're methodical, they think through, they understand rules, laws. They they do a lot of pre-prep work prior to the season, right? And when we look at crossbow sales as a shop, right? I own Extreme Outfitters, we sell a lot of crossbows, crossbow sales typically are in September.

KevinDooling:

Right, is the season starting.

ZakkPlocica:

The season starts in September. So what is that what happens? What does that equate to? That equates to guys who are just getting into hunting, they they walk in, they buy a bow, they have no familiarization with that weapon whatsoever whatsoever. They come in, they buy it, it's set up. Setting up a crossbow is very, very simple. Um, and then they take it in the woods that evening and attempt. Attempt to go hunt. Um and I think there that's where the bad name comes from, right? Just because it's a lack of preparation, it's a lack of you know, getting ready for the season. These guys are very last, not all, and I'm not saying all of them, but this is the big, this is what we see a lot of with when it seems to be the norm. It's it does. Um, and these crossbows now are uh very technical, right? These guys, you got bows that are putting up speeds 515 feet per second, right? And there's a lot of energy stored in these bows, and there's a lot of steps to shooting these bows, right? For example, they're not you're a lot of these bows have transitioned to a crank system, right? So you've got to crank this up with a system. It's not just a rope cocker, pull it back, load a load a bolt, shoot it. It's you've got to take, you've got to put it on fire. You've got to push the FDL to release the tether to go down to get to the string. You've got to latch it on the string, it's got to go automatically engage into the safety. You've got to put your crank device in it, you've got to crank it all the way up, you've got to back turn it three times, you've got to push a clutch, you've got to remove the and stow the actual handle. You've got to make sure you load your bolt with enough force so that it um clicks, and then you can fire the bow. So there's a lot of steps, right? What we're seeing as these bows evolve and become more complicated is more of these bows are in our shop, blown up, or there's an issue with them. Because one, it's a last-minute thing. People are buying them last minute, they're not reading instructions, they're not watching videos how on how to use them, they're taking them out in the woods, they're not familiar with their equipment, and then there ends up being a problem, whether they they somehow bind up the internals, um, all kinds of stuff. Uh, so I think that's where the bad name kind of comes from. Um I'm not against crossbows at all. Like I said, I've got friends that shoot them uh and very successful with them, and that's how they choose to, or that's what they're limited to. What do you think? I mean, as far as like you know, I know you you talked about it. I mean, it's a great way to get people into the sport, but certainly.

KevinDooling:

Yeah, I mean it's it is frustrating, you know, because like as a yeah as a hunter, as a as a hunter, as a bow hunter, you know and I'm sure you can sympathize with this too. It's and and we talked about this in the last episode is is preparing throughout, not just um before the season, but but year round, right? So how is it fair that I practice year round? And that's we get into archery season, and the benefit of having an archery season is like, oh, you get this extra time to hunt because you became proficient with this and it's harder and all this other stuff, but then you know, somebody can come into the shop and buy a bow, and then that afternoon they're ready to rock and roll. You know, it kind of takes the the the point out of it, in my opinion, you know, as far as archery is is concerned, the ability to hunt during the archery, archery season. So that's where I'm kind of like a against it, is um I just I I don't see how that's a uh it equates if that makes any sense.

ZakkPlocica:

Yeah, and and there's a lot of your traditional bow hunters that argue that it dilutes the meaning of archery season. Sure, right? That's I think that's a really great way of putting it. It dilutes the season because realistically, with a bow, when you're in the woods and you're hunting, right, there's a lot of factors and a lot of variables that are working against you as a bow hunter, right? One, you're close, you've got to be extremely close with the bow, right? That's the difference between that and a rifle. And I think crossbow is that in between you can really shoot some distance accurately. Some of these bows are shooting one at two inch groups at 100 yards, which I know dudes with bows that can do that, but they're doing it consistently. Your average Joe can do it. Um, but as a bow hunter in the woods, you have to be able to identify an animal, range, know how far that animal is because the trajectory on an arrow is not as flat as something that's shooting 500 feet per second, 450 feet per second. Um, so you've got to know your ranges. And then the big challenge is getting the bow back.

KevinDooling:

Right. The movement.

ZakkPlocica:

The movement's huge that is involved to draw a bow is a critical part of being a successful or non-successful bow hunter. It's happening. If you've ever bow hunted and you've had a deer come in, if if you've never had a deer bust you drawing a bow back, you've probably not hunted very long.

KevinDooling:

Right, it's probably your first season, right? Exactly.

ZakkPlocica:

Right. So that's a major part of bow hunting is being able just to get the bow back, acquire your peep sight, put your sight on that animal, and then make a good shot.

KevinDooling:

A lot more steps, obviously.

ZakkPlocica:

There's a lot more steps. And with the crossbow, you pre-cock that, it's loaded, it's ready to go. All you've got to do is put that thing on fire and pull the trigger. Right. So a lot less steps. So I could see that uh as being a potential issue with people that are true bow hunters that say it really dilutes what archery season is. Right. You know, is it just a rifle with strings essentially?

KevinDooling:

It well, I mean, with 500 feet per second, regardless of tension in that direction, you know.

ZakkPlocica:

It's yeah, it's wild, man. Yeah, uh, but I mean, there is from what I read, there's a bunch of states that are starting to loosen their restriction on crossbows. So, I mean, is the hunting demographic like for is it good? Like, there's because it does get more people into the woods. I mean, that's one thing that you can argue about it, right? Right.

KevinDooling:

That's my that's my pro, yeah, you know, for when we're talking about crossbows, you know, it's like, um, and we the obviously the hunting community is dealing with um we're always gonna have those challenges of um other, you know, people that are not involved with hunting that are trying to take our our hunting privileges or rights away from us, you know, um you know, animal rights organizations and stuff like that. So us saying, um, I am for hunting, but I'm not for the way that you choose to do it, I think that's counterproductive. Right. You know, at the that's kind of my my pro argument for it. And it's like right around here, for example, with running dogs. Um, I don't like the fact that people run dogs. It's just not my way of doing it. I wouldn't, I wouldn't do it ever personally myself, but I'm never gonna be like, we need to, you know, I'm for hunting, but I don't think we should be allowed to dog hunt and I'll put crossbows in there as well. I don't, I don't want to take somebody's method away from them because I I think that's just taking another step towards getting, you know, losing our hunting, hunting rights eventually one day.

ZakkPlocica:

So yeah, that was so I was as I was driving to work um this morning, that was one of the things that I was really thinking about is you know, we need more hunters, right? Because we need more people to advocate for hunting. And this is another way to get people into that, into to hunting. And then we have more people on our side. We look at state land, you look at, I mean, you have more people that are, like you saying, advocating for hunters' rights. And that's important. And we're outnumbered already, yes, you know, with anti-hunters. So when you when you look at could the crossbow gives more people an opportunity or make or presents or more people are looking at it as an option to get into it, right? They're not limited to just rifle, just bow. Now they have this other option, which has been around for a while, but it's opened up more. There's a lot of people that are really interested in crossbows. Right. I mean, because of TV shows and stuff. I mean, that's how it's piques people's interest. And the fact that we have more people able to get into it is good.

KevinDooling:

Right. Yeah, I've got a I've got one of my buddies down in Florida. Um, he, you know, he has a lot of clients that he brings down to Florida and he's in real estate. Um, when he brings clients down to Florida to, you know, buy houses or whatever the case is, he takes them out to his hunting club and he's got, you know, several uh 10-point crossbows, and he's introduced probably 20, 30 people to hunting, and you know, some of them have gone back home and you know, gotten gone to their local archery shop and either bought a crossbow or a or a conventional bow. Um, but that's just the way that he was able to get people into the sport and interested.

ZakkPlocica:

So yeah, I think it is a great way to get people into it because especially like that, you as a guide or a hunting service, like let's say you provide all the equipment, right? You have guys that just show up, which there's some services like that. You can't have people just show up and put them on a vertical bow.

KevinDooling:

No, literally impossible.

ZakkPlocica:

There'll be you'll have more wounded animals or blown-up bows or hurt people than you could ever imagine. But the the crossbow allows you to do that, right? You literally get it, it's pre-sided in, you put your crosshairs on it, pull the trigger, and it's gonna do what it needs to. So I don't know. Uh when you look at, I mean, but with the crossbow side of things, there's so much more technology. But you can have that same art uh argument for a vertical bow, right? When you got your traditional bow hunters, yeah, they're like, you shoot a compound bow, you're not a real bow hunter. And I see where they're coming from as well, right? Because they're shooting a stick and string. We're shooting a bow that's got a sight on it, it's got cams, it's got let off. Um, you're able to shoot an arrow, a heavier arrow, much faster. So the technology has advanced with vertical bows.

KevinDooling:

It's sort of like the uh the halfway between a you know a traditional bow and a and a and a crossbow, really.

ZakkPlocica:

So so when you look at that, I mean, at what point does archery season lose its meaning because of that? You know, where do we where do we draw the hard line? Is there a hard line that needs to be drawn with this? Right. You know, do we does does crossbow like okay, yeah, you can only shoot a crossbow, that's fine, but your season is is you know the last two weeks of archery season, or it's post-archery season with muzzle loader, because I'm pretty sure that's how it was in some states, right?

KevinDooling:

Yeah, a lot of them for sure.

ZakkPlocica:

A lot of them, it's it's you can't shoot a crossbow with vertical bows. It's it opens up during like muzzle loader season.

KevinDooling:

Yeah. Which And I mean no, I when I was a kid in Florida, um, you you were not allowed to hunt with a crossbow, period. Um you had to pull a uh like a disability permit in order in order to do so. Um and I think the only time you could actually hunt with a crossbow was during the during the gun season. But I think just I I don't know when that's when it's happened, but um you can you can hunt with a crossbow, majority of public land areas and stuff like that now in Florida. So um another step in that direction, you know what I mean?

ZakkPlocica:

So yeah, I know it's um and like I said, I'm not against it whatsoever. I've got a lot of but good buddies that shoot them. Um and though, but those guys too take things serious though. They're not it's not a last minute purchase for them, and they they it's justifiable, right? They I mean they enjoy shooting them. Uh some of them have shoulder issues, like for a fact, they've got true issues from you know, prior service, whatever. Uh, and that's the only thing they can do. And they tried. I have a really good buddy. Um, he tried going the vertical bow route, but you look at his shoulder, there's this crazy knot he gets on it that swells up with fluid. Oh my god. So he can't, he had to get rid of his bow and go to a crossbow.

KevinDooling:

Yeah.

ZakkPlocica:

And he loves hunting. Right.

KevinDooling:

Yeah.

ZakkPlocica:

And he's like, I'm not gonna give up hunting just because I'm I'll go to the weapon that I can that I can utilize. But he uses it all season.

KevinDooling:

Yeah, no, and I I get that. I uh this uh older dude that I know in Indiana, he's like uh one of the greatest people I've ever met my entire life. You know, he's he's like 90 some odd years old now, but um that's how that's his method of hunting now, you know, now that he's really old and up there. And uh as far as like you know, telling people they can't use crossbows, whatever the case is, I really gonna tell us 90-year-old dude he can't he can't hunt anymore during during archery season or whatever. Yeah, I think it's a little silly.

ZakkPlocica:

And that's where it comes to the disability and the you know the age factor, right? I mean, are you only allowed to use it for that? Should it be state, is it you know, state dependent? I mean, I don't know, man. That's that's a tough, it's a tough argument. Um I would say people that only use crossbows, if they want to really change how people view crossbow shooters, they're they're gonna have to change the way they approach their equipment and hunting. I think that's a is would be a really good starting point. Right. And that's not a dig on them because they're not all like that, but we just see a massive amount of people that are very last minute. They buy this boat and then they're just wandering through the woods, bumping deer out for guys that have spent their entire, you know, postseason scouting and setting up and prepping. And then you've got a guy that's just wandering around with a crossbow that's lot that's loaded and walking around on on land and right, just which is safe.

KevinDooling:

Um, and I I'll give you this one too. Like when I was living up in Indiana, um, my my dog, I use her for blood trailing and stuff like that. Um, she became real popular up there. And one thing I I took note of um when the word got out there that my dog was, you know, finding deer for people and stuff like that. Um, I took note of the fact that you know a lot of the phone calls I was getting um when people were asking her to come out and blood trail, I noticed the majority of them were crossbow hunters.

ZakkPlocica:

So let me ask you this is it because they had a higher success rate is getting on deer and getting a shot opportunity, or is it because I the only thing my my my guess is is they had the opportunity, sure, um, but I think it was they weren't prepared.

KevinDooling:

They didn't practice, they weren't efficient with the crossbow. And there was a lot of high shoulder hits, there was a lot of really far back hits, you know.

ZakkPlocica:

Um that's was my so that's interesting you say that because some of these new bows are so fast, right? And shooting a compound bow, if you strap a fixed blade broadhead to that bow, you'll notice you can get wild arrow flight if you don't have a broadhead tune a button, right? Some of these guys are shooting these super fast bows with these big fixed blades on them, and they're not testing their equipment prior. Right. They're strapping a broadhead on, they're just and they're gonna shoot it right after shooting a field point. And because those bows are shooting so fast, those bolts are flying all over the place. Right understanding.

KevinDooling:

It's nothing to have uh, you know, two and a half feet at you know at 35 plus yards or 35, 40 yards with a with one of those big fixed blade heads, you know.

ZakkPlocica:

And that's shooting 285 feet per second versus 450 feet per second.

KevinDooling:

Right. It just amplifies even more. So but yeah, that was one of the things I I observed when you know I was doing a little blood trailing up there with my dog. It seemed like a lot of the calls I was getting was four was four crossbows.

ZakkPlocica:

Interesting. Unfortunately, yeah, and like I said, I I almost I wonder if that's because one they had more shot opportunities because they didn't have to draw a bow back. Um or if it was just a lack of preparation and lack of understanding equipment and not knowing how that bolt is gonna fly when they put a broadhead on there. Right, yeah, you know, um, because I know for the most part with us, we're we're putting anybody that comes in here that's shooting a crossbow, we recommend a mechanical broadhead.

KevinDooling:

No, it only makes sense, you know.

ZakkPlocica:

But I mean, yeah, we've had some guys that swear by a fixed blade, but I'm like, man, this bow's shooting so fast.

KevinDooling:

I just at least at least test it.

ZakkPlocica:

Yeah, yes, because again, it comes down to being proficient with your equipment. You need to know exactly how these things are performing. If you go out and shoot a rifle and you change bullets, you're gonna have to re-zero that gun. You need to do that with your crossbow as soon as you change heads.

KevinDooling:

Yeah.

ZakkPlocica:

So yeah, it's interesting. Um, I just does it give hunters too much of an advantage using a crossbow versus a vertical bow. I mean, does it? There's definitely it's definitely more advantageous. Right. Just solely based off not movement wise, right?

KevinDooling:

I mean, I can I can over the last three years I can tell you that, you know, if I had a crossbow in hand, there's a a number of bucks that I could have killed.

ZakkPlocica:

I say that was a gun.

KevinDooling:

Right, yeah, yeah. Had I had a gun or a crossbow in hand, but um just due to the um, you know, I needed that deer to come a little bit closer, you know, it didn't didn't come within 50 yards or whatever the case is. Um, and that's kind of getting back into that argument of like, is should these things be, you know, considered a a rifle, you know, so for input in that season.

ZakkPlocica:

Yeah, I'd be curious what some of the listeners say. I mean, are you pro or are you against crossbows? Like, what's your input on it? Um, is it good? Is it bad?

KevinDooling:

Right. Like I said, I'm I'm I'm very curious to see. I would imagine a very passionate debate.

ZakkPlocica:

It's a very it's like the mechanical verse fixed, but at a whole nother level.

KevinDooling:

Right.

ZakkPlocica:

Uh, because there's some people that just don't tolerate it at all. Right. And then some people I think look at it from a little bit different perspective and understand the need for it. Um for some.

KevinDooling:

Right. Yeah. I'm kind of an independent, I guess, like you. Yeah. Yeah.

ZakkPlocica:

I like I said, it's just I I think it just comes down to the individual for me. Um, and I I like I said, I don't care what you hunt with, as long as you prepare and you you are fundamentally understand the weapon that you're using, your weapon of choice, how it operates, how it you how it uh performs at different yardages. Um, that's my biggest thing.

KevinDooling:

Yeah. Uh so I don't know. I'll I'll you know, I'm I'll tell you what. Um I'll be honest, I do have a little bit of frustration each year when you like okay, the Bow Hunters of America Facebook page, and you'll see you know people during the archery season just laying them out.

ZakkPlocica:

You know, there they are with their crossbow, and it's like I don't think you can cut categorize those as the same as vertical bows.

KevinDooling:

No, no.

ZakkPlocica:

Like those kill, it's not it, you it's not a it's a crossbow kill, it's not a bow kill. Right. I don't think you can you can inter interchange those. Like it's two wildly different um pieces of equipment that require different skill sets. Um, you definitely have more advantage with a crossbow when it comes to shot opportunity by far, I think. Um but you know, with that, you have more shot opportunity, right? So one of the arguments potentially is if a crossbow increases accuracy and leads to quicker, cleaner kills, isn't that more ethical than a marginal compound bow shot?

KevinDooling:

Maybe you know, but it kind of goes back to the you know what I was saying earlier, you know, I just it I don't know. It seemed like a lot of the deer that I was chasing, you know, blood trail in Indiana were were crossbow hit deer. Yeah. Um so when it's yeah, I guess it's more accurate when you have it, you know, sitting on a table and you're not in a hunting environment, you know, but yeah.

ZakkPlocica:

I mean, I would definitely say that more people are successful with crossbows easier. Um but I also see guys with vertical bows who are equally as irresponsible.

KevinDooling:

I know. So it's frustrating.

ZakkPlocica:

It is frustrating as a whole. I mean, because like I said, as a shop owner, I feel guilty. We can only do what we do. Our job is to set you up as best we can, make sure you are comfortable and you are confident with your equipment leaving our shop, right? That's what we do. So when you come in and buy a bow from Extreme Outfitters, there's a full, like what's like, for example, vertical bows. There's a full tuning process of build out. We build your arrows, we tune the bow, we put you on a range, teach you how to shoot the bow, get your bow sided and out to 30 yards. You buy a crossbow from us, we show you how the bow operates, we show you the ins and outs of it. There's still a lot of steps that you need to brush up on.

KevinDooling:

Right.

ZakkPlocica:

We put you on the range, we help you get the bow zero, you're out the door.

KevinDooling:

Yeah.

ZakkPlocica:

Um, but you still have to practice with that equipment, right? We can only do so much as a shop, right? I can't do the hunting for you. Whenever you buy a bow from us, I and you go, you tell me that yeah, I'm going out this evening. I feel guilty. I can't tell you otherwise, right? And I'm never will, like, because I don't know your experience. But typically the ones that are experienced aren't doing that. Um, I feel guilty sending people out the door who tell me they're gonna go hunting this weekend with a brand new bow they just felt. Right. Like, I feel like I'm doing a disservice to the animals out there, but it's outside of my control. Like I said, I understand my role within this thing. I my job is to provide the equipment and provide as much information as we possibly can. But and with that, we still try to educate people on like, hey, maybe you should spend some more time behind this before you take it out and hunt. But some people you're just not telling.

KevinDooling:

Right. You know, so they've already got it set in their mind, right? They've already got it set in their mind.

ZakkPlocica:

They're gonna go out and they're gonna try to shoot this thing at an animal and kill something. Right. Which to me is a big, it's a big responsibility, right? You're going trying to take something's life.

KevinDooling:

It's uh yeah, 100%. 100%.

ZakkPlocica:

So I feel uh I feel it sometimes whenever I see guys go out the the shop that that day and then they they're like, hey, we're going hunting tomorrow. I'm like, ah make sure you put a few bolts through when you know or or your bow, make sure you shoot that thing because like I said, I I see that e not I'm not gonna say equally, I see it a lot with vertical bows as well. People who just you know, they just don't understand that there's a shop process, there's an understanding of how this thing equ works, and you know, that you need to spend time behind it to be proficient with it.

KevinDooling:

Yeah, and I've I've heard the whole uh like uh you know people say, Well, I can hit a I can hit a pie plate at 20 yards, and it's like, oh gosh, you really need to that's on a flat range. Right. Like you need to bring her in in there a little bit, you know, but um that type of individual I think is never gonna like go away. You know, they're always gonna be around. Right. So and I think it's one of the cool things about having like a like a podcast like this is that you know, somebody might be listening to this and go, oh man, you know, maybe I should spend a little more time and maybe I do owe it to the animal.

ZakkPlocica:

Yeah, and it's no hate on anybody, right? We all have different upbringings, um, different backgrounds and view things different. Um but I think it's important that you that people are educated on the the equipment side of things, right? If you're gonna get this and take this out to try to kill something, you need to be efficient with it. 100% and you need to know how to use it uh to its fullest potential because it's different shooting your bow on a flat range under no pressure versus being out of a hang on or a saddle, and you've got those that adrenaline dump and you're trying to, you know, hold on target and shoot this animal in the woods where there's all these different objects potentially in the way.

KevinDooling:

Yeah, you might be a full draw for a minute and a half, you know what I mean?

ZakkPlocica:

And you've got to have that um ability to calm down and take a good clean shot and have everything uh go as best as it can. Because every on a vertical bow, every input is either gonna have a bad output or a good output, depending on the input that you put into that bow, whether you're torquing that riser, you're punching that trigger, you know, a whole host of things.

KevinDooling:

Right.

ZakkPlocica:

There's a lot of variables, man.

KevinDooling:

Yeah.

ZakkPlocica:

So it's it's a lot. It's um it's uh it's definitely an interesting conversation. I really haven't seen much conversation on crossbows.

KevinDooling:

Like Yeah, why is that? It seems like we have it in the shop a little bit.

ZakkPlocica:

Yeah, but I mean I never I don't really see these like a a good back and forth, not a completely one-sided argument.

KevinDooling:

Yeah, usually it's just like a battle one way or the other, yeah. Either like super pro or like, oh my gosh, like totally against it, you know what I mean?

ZakkPlocica:

So yeah, I mean, because I mean when you look at it, do crossbows level the playing field for women, older hunters, and those with disabilities, or does the advantage compromise the spirit of the archery season? Right?

KevinDooling:

Yeah, and uh that's the thing. I'm I'm sort of a metal guy there, yeah, and I feel like I feel like you're a kind of a middle guy too.

ZakkPlocica:

I'm so I am very because I under I get it from both sides, right? I'm a very passionate bow hunter, like vertical bows is all I shoot, right? That's all I've ever shot, but I also understand the need for crossbows, right? Especially I'm a big proponent of like kids.

KevinDooling:

Yo, yeah.

ZakkPlocica:

It's a great way to get kids into the season early shooting a bow. And if you educate them properly, they're gonna they're gonna take it serious. They're gonna go out and shoot, you're gonna take them, you'll practice with the bow. Um, I think it's great. It gets people in early. Like I said, it goes back to the more hunters we can get involved in hunting, the more people are gonna have to advocate for hunters' rights.

Speaker 02:

Right.

ZakkPlocica:

And I think we're a big um the archery community and the hunting community is big on eating its own.

KevinDooling:

Yes. Yeah. And then think about if they were to be like, if if some people were to have their way and we were to get rid of crossbows completely, I think there are so many, you know, conventional bow hunters um out there um that got their start, you know, from got in getting invited to go out on a hunt or they want to hunt or whatever the case is, and um that hunt just happened to be with a crossbow. And then they were like, well, this is really interesting, and their their interest in in the sport, you know, flourished from there. Um and it doesn't have to be a forever thing, but I think if we got rid of crossbows, I think you'd be kind of cutting off some people's entryway into you know what we what we love to do.

ZakkPlocica:

Yeah, I agree. Um I think that like you said, it's a great segue into it. And I think the guys that get into it and really fall in love with it, it it opens their eyes to other, they're not limited to one type of of hunting, right? So a lot of them it opens their eyes. So like maybe, you know, I want I want the challenge. I want more of a challenge. So that's where they get introduced to the vertical bow, the compound bow, or the traditional bow side of things. Because we see a lot of guys who went from super advanced technology compound bows back to traditional bows because of the challenge.

KevinDooling:

Oh, yeah, 100%. Like, like I think we talked about it last episode. I shoot, I shoot tried stuff all the time at home, you know. Um, but I'll tell you, um, one thing I forgot to mention um is that I I've seen before, and this was pretty prevalent with some of friends of mine that I had up in Indiana. Um, they started with conventional archery tackle and then made the swap over to crossbows.

ZakkPlocica:

Interesting.

KevinDooling:

Well, this this is what kind of makes me a little bit frustrated with the with the kind of like the my anti crossbow argument um was you know. Talking to these guys about like, hey, why why are you getting into the crossbow thing? And their their response was, well, it's easier, and I can take these hundred plus yard shots and you know, all these all these reasons, and it's like I don't I don't like that. Yeah, you know, that's what I don't like about the crossbow thing for sure. Especially when you're if you're able-bodied, you know, I personally I wouldn't be able to look at myself in the mirror, you know. You know what I mean? Probably not. I don't know.

ZakkPlocica:

But yeah, no, I'm I mean, I get that side of things too, but I mean are you are you saying just because so it just made it just makes it easier, right, to to to kill an animal.

KevinDooling:

Yeah.

ZakkPlocica:

Right. So that's their that's their excuse for going to it.

KevinDooling:

Yeah, oh yeah, because you know they were, I mean, just I think they were just growing impatient. Um, they were seeing a lot of deer that were um just out of reach. Just out of reach, you know what I mean. And my my answer to that is, well, hunt them better, you know, like uh make a move on them, whatever the case is. But their response is no, I'm gonna sit right here and I'm gonna lob that bolt, you know, on to the other side of that ridge, you know.

ZakkPlocica:

Which is crazy to me. Uh I so I don't think like I guess it I so to an average person or not an average person, somebody like us who lives and breathes by bows, right? We shoot bows all year round. I don't think I have a reach advantage with a crossbow, personally. Um, I don't, but I do think it makes it because we shoot a bow a lot. I think I can shoot a bow very accurately out to distance um repeatedly. Uh and with a crossbow, I don't feel like knowing the capability of the bows. Like I get it, you could shoot at 100 yards. I can shoot my bow accurately at 100 yards. Um, that crossbow, yes, it gets there faster. I would never comfortably take probably a 50 yard shot with a crossbow.

KevinDooling:

Right. Yeah.

ZakkPlocica:

There's no way there's so many, there's a lot of variables. There's so many variables. I don't think I get much of a reach advantage with a crossbow personally. I do, however, think somebody that doesn't spend a lot of time behind a bow or shoot often does have a reach advantage with a crossbow.

KevinDooling:

Right.

ZakkPlocica:

It's just easier.

KevinDooling:

100%.

ZakkPlocica:

30 yard shot with a crossbow is gonna be cake compared to a 30-yard shot with a compound bow.

KevinDooling:

Right, right.

ZakkPlocica:

Especially if you don't ever shoot.

KevinDooling:

And and I'll yeah, like the way that I hunt, you know, I you know, I hunt real thick, you know. So most of my shots are with within 20. You know, so I really wouldn't have that much of an it wouldn't be very advantageous of me neither to do that. So um, and I can hit a pie plate at 10 yards of my compound. So crushing it. Yeah, yeah. I'm a responsible archery hunter, you know.

ZakkPlocica:

Oh yes. Um, so what do you think? I mean, is I know for us, as far as like our our compound, because I was just looking at social media the other day and there was somebody that posted a um uh a meme or it was an image and it was like there was a picture of a crossbow, and someone's like, this is not bow hunting. I mean, why do you think everybody is so upset about it? Is it just the technology, the advancement in it, just because it's like a right, you shoot it, there's no drawing it back. I mean, is you think that's the biggest complaint, or do you think it's the people actually shooting the bows?

KevinDooling:

Ooh, probably the probably the first one. I think I think um some a lot of bow hunters get really frustrated. And I I see their point, you know, because it's kind of my point too, sometimes that it's like it it's it's just not the same, you know what I mean? There's not the it doesn't it doesn't take the effort to become proficient in it as a as as you know conventional archery tackle, you know.

ZakkPlocica:

So yeah, I think that's the big thing.

KevinDooling:

Yeah.

ZakkPlocica:

So do you think uh I mean, from your opinion, uh-huh so there was restrictions in New York. Do you think since they've opened it up, it's a mistake?

KevinDooling:

No.

ZakkPlocica:

No.

KevinDooling:

I don't feel good about that. Like I don't feel good with that answer, but um, I say no because I know there's somebody in New York, somewhere, that would really benefit from this. And it's gonna it's gonna provide them the opportunity to get in the woods that otherwise they wouldn't they they never would. And you know what? If that if that impacts one person, then so be it. You know, that's that's my opinion.

ZakkPlocica:

So yeah. Yeah, I think I'm on board with that. You know, there's gonna be some people that don't like that. Which which I would just I would just encourage people to be more open-minded about it, right? Um so back and forth with it because I see so much good, potential good with it, but I also I also understand the french the frustrations that come along with it.

KevinDooling:

Um yeah, I mean, I I talk about frustration. I mean, uh there was a giant buck taken. Um it's called the Huff Buck. You ever heard of the Huff Buck? It was killed one county over from where I lived in in Indiana. And I mean, it was a mega giant, well into the 200s, right? And it was killed with a crossbow, you know, and it's like well, you know, so as like a very passionate bow hunter, you know, I'm sure you can sympathize that it's like that's frustrating. It is frustrating because it's like, golly, you know, it would have been it would be way cooler if you killed it with a either a compound or trad or whatever the case is.

ZakkPlocica:

The trad goes, guys are saying every time they see something with a compound bow, they're like, Yeah, that would do it.

KevinDooling:

Try it, try it with a stick and string. You know, I'm with you, man. It's hard. Yeah, I know.

ZakkPlocica:

It's hard. You gotta be a talented individual. I need a little bit of an uh advantage, which right.

KevinDooling:

I've never killed anything with my trad stuff, you know. So usually I'll hunt with it for a couple times and I'm like, That's enough. This is too hard. I'm I'm going back to the wheel. See, there you go.

ZakkPlocica:

There's the argument, right? I need the training wheels back on. You know, I want something that makes it a little bit easier. Right. Yeah. Then then at what point are we just killing them with what at laddles and spears?

KevinDooling:

Yeah.

ZakkPlocica:

You know, where do the thing? Yeah, where do you draw the line as far as technology goes? Like, where does it advance to? At what point is it too much?

KevinDooling:

Right.

ZakkPlocica:

And I mean look at some of the sites now that are on vertical bows, the Garmin sites, right? You can range it at full draw. I mean, is that too much? I uh they're not legal in all states, but they're illegal in a lot of them.

KevinDooling:

Yeah, I mean, that's that's you know, when I first came into archery, if you would have told me that one day back in my day, back in my day, um, you know, back when the iPhone 4 was out, you know, if you if you would have told me that there was gonna be an archery site one day that would range and then and then set like your dot for you like that site, I'd have been like, no way, you know, for get real. Well, here it is. And it's actually kind of an older site now. I mean, they've been out for like what five years now or something.

ZakkPlocica:

Yeah, at least they're expensive too. And and like you shoot it, you can drop a pin where you shot. I mean, you can go back and track using the Garmin apps. I mean, at what point is technology too much?

KevinDooling:

I mean, yeah, it's crazy. You see that new app, that blood trailing app?

ZakkPlocica:

No.

KevinDooling:

Oh my gosh. What is that? It's an app on your phone that you download, obviously, but it literally like it's a filter on your screen, right? And it literally picks up blood. So you just hold it out in front of you, and the blood glows right in front of you.

ZakkPlocica:

It's crazy. So that's exactly what I'm talking about. Right. So that's the that's the there's the argument. Is there too much technology? Does archery need to go back to just stick and string and then they have a vertical bow and then they which falls in line with cross? Like, where do you draw the line? I mean, yeah, we're look, we're talking about sites that are self-ranging. We're talking about um apps that you can track blood. You got apps for you know weather mapping.

KevinDooling:

I mean, we have drones recovering deer, thermal drones recovering deer, which I think is kind of cool, but you know it is, but it's another step, right?

ZakkPlocica:

It's it's I mean, there's good with it, but there's also bad that gets used with it, like anything else, right? There's with good comes the bad.

KevinDooling:

Right. You know, the hunting industry has exploded with these innovation, like when I was a kid, um, thinking about a trail camera that sent pictures to your phone.

ZakkPlocica:

Live, right? Live. So you that's another thing you can look at trail cameras. Where are trail cameras too advanced to where you don't even have to go out? You set it, you wait, and you can read it and you get real time data, and then you can make a move.

KevinDooling:

Right. Yeah, back in my day, we had the old Primos ones that were like this big. You had to pull cards, and the batteries were the giant things, you know. Never worked, only last a week. Yeah, you know, gotta be a hundred pictures on that before you had to go change the SD card, you know.

ZakkPlocica:

Yeah, so I mean.

KevinDooling:

Where does it end?

ZakkPlocica:

Where does it end?

KevinDooling:

Right, right.

ZakkPlocica:

I don't know where it ends. I think it's important that we get more people into the hunting community, but respectfully into the hunting world, right? To where they understand um that what they do is important, that it requires preparation, uh, and that they're respectful to other hunters uh and the animals that they're hunting, that they're just not out there slinging arrows and bolts.

KevinDooling:

Yeah, and we've all seen that a million times.

ZakkPlocica:

From I don't care who what what from gun hunters to bow hunters to crossbow hunters across the board, you see that.

KevinDooling:

Yeah.

ZakkPlocica:

Um, people trespassing, running dogs across properties that's not theirs. Very big. I mean, I'm not a dog hunter. I have you ask me, I'd rather dog hunting have its own season. You get you get X amount of time for dog hunting, no more dogs.

KevinDooling:

Yeah, and it should only last six hours.

ZakkPlocica:

It should only you know that that's me, but I know that's not that there's there's a lot of people that really enjoy that and they're passionate about that, and that's fine. As long as they're you know respectful and doing doing right by the rules and laws that are implemented and advocating for hunters, you know, they're a vital part of the the hunting community as well.

KevinDooling:

Yeah, and I'll tell you what, no hunter, you know, whether they're into the dog thing or the crossbows or the whatever their method is, um, or whatever their opinion is on any of these things, no hunter goes to bed at night thinking that their that their method is the wrong way to go. So gotta be open-minded. This is very true. Yeah.

ZakkPlocica:

People um, yeah, they will they'll fight you tooth and nail over why why this should be this way.

KevinDooling:

And right, you know, versus here's why I'm right. This is it, man.

ZakkPlocica:

That's why I want to have this this podcast and be kind of open-minded and see what your thoughts are on it. Uh because you've been hunting for a long time. You've hunted a lot of different states, you've seen a lot of different things, you're also involved in law enforcement.

Speaker 02:

Yeah.

ZakkPlocica:

Um, so you see uh a lot of things, and you're pretty open-minded to it, and uh not open-minded to it, but just in general, the hunting community. Right. Uh, so you're uh we could have a good conversation about it. But that's that's where I really question it. Like, is the technology side of things. Like, where does it end? At what point do we got a GPS locator on a bolt or an arrow, and you can find exactly where you know that arrow is that instead of having to go search for. I mean, I don't even whatever else. There's a lot of things.

KevinDooling:

I don't think you're too far off, you know. I mean, think of it. They put a battery inside of a knock that illuminates the knock. I mean, it I guarantee you within five years, we've got some sort of device, you know, in within an arrow that's uh like uh what was it, Apple AirTag? Like that technology's easy.

ZakkPlocica:

So yeah, think about it. You got a an arrow that's stuck in an animal, and you know, you're trying to track this animal and you could just track it via if you didn't get a pass-through via an app on your phone.

KevinDooling:

Right. I don't think we're that far off. You know, it sounds far-fetched, but no, it doesn't, not now. No, yeah. I mean, dude, I as a tr as a traditionalist myself, you know, I mean, it it might seem that way, but yeah, I don't know.

ZakkPlocica:

And I think too, the draw of the crossbows is they're cool, right? They're neat.

KevinDooling:

Yeah.

ZakkPlocica:

I mean, and you see them like so we saw like mass. So do you remember the what's it called The Walking Dead?

KevinDooling:

The show?

ZakkPlocica:

The show with the zombies? Yes. Heck yes. So so do you remember it's that show's been out for some time now, right?

KevinDooling:

I never watched it, but I know what you're talking about.

ZakkPlocica:

Okay, so what's his name uses a crossbow in it? That had a massive impact in crossbow sales.

KevinDooling:

Did it? Yes. Kind of like Homegirl and the movie. Yes. What's her name? Kat. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

ZakkPlocica:

From um the Hunker Games.

KevinDooling:

Right.

ZakkPlocica:

So we get a lot of kids that are interested in archery because of these movies, right? These fictional characters, and then it segues them into what we're doing. I get a lot of kids like that that still reference um there's the superhero guy, um Hawkeye.

KevinDooling:

Oh, I was gonna thought I'd say Robin Hood or something.

ZakkPlocica:

No, no, that's what that's what that's so like Hawkeye. We get a lot of young, young kids that come in that reference Hawkeye, the the girl from the Hunger Games, um, that want to get into archery because of that, which is awesome because then we can get them started the right way. Sure. Right? Which which makes it cool. They've got an interest in something which evolves to the outdoor side of things, right? They become bow hunters or rifle hunters or whatever it is, and then they could advocate for the hunting industry. You know, they've got they've got a good entry level into hunting, right? But yeah, we saw a massive increase in crossbow sales whenever that was going on. No kidding. Yeah, dude, it was wild. So listen, I had so during COVID, right? We had guys in New York City or New York, I don't know if they were in New York City, I'm pretty sure it was in the city. They were buying crossbows for home defense. So let me tell you one thing that you don't want to do with a crossbow. Leave it cocked for extended periods of time. So this is education.

KevinDooling:

That's a lot of energy.

ZakkPlocica:

So if you are a new individual and you look at getting into crossbows and you want to get into crossbows, that's perfect. Get into crossbows, do your research, understand crossbows. Crossbows are our number one service at our shop this time of year. No other time of the year, only during the season, because that's when you're gonna have problems with them, is whenever you're using them or whenever you get it and you don't know how to use it, and then you gotta bring it back to us to fix it. The amount of people that are leaving a crossbow caulked, cocked long term in their closets, in their vehicles, in their garage when the season's open over is insane. When you leave a bow crossed, cocked for that long, that amount of tension and energy on those limbs, at some point they've got to get give. They are not designed to be stored, loaded, or cocked. And we have it every year uh where people bring them in. I don't know what happened. I just heard this massive bang in my closet and the bow blew up. It's like you cannot do that. The other thing about with crossbows is they got to be serviced, new strings, every year or every other year at the list.

KevinDooling:

They need to clean, lubricate, and lubricate, and protect. You know what I mean?

ZakkPlocica:

Dude, like legitimately, like the especially as these new, like the X caliber bows are awesome. I like the X-caliber clouds.

KevinDooling:

It's a recurve lens, right? Yeah, yeah.

ZakkPlocica:

They're not ungodly fast. They're self-serviceable, there's not a lot of moving parts on them. They're reliable. They had come with a fantastic warranty, better warranty than any crossbows in the market. Um, and they just they hold up well. Your your newer bows, like your your wheel bows, your um ravens, 10 points, all these high energy bows. It's not a matter of if they're gonna fail, but when.

KevinDooling:

Let me can I ask, uh, is there is there a safety issue with with that? What do you think? I yeah, you like it could are these things dangerous, is what I'm getting at.

ZakkPlocica:

Uh so look, I've had them blow up in my face. Um, we've had them blow up on our feet, um, trying to they they're just seized up.

Speaker 02:

Yeah.

ZakkPlocica:

Yeah, like anything, they're dangerous. A vertical bow can be dangerous if it blows up on you in a press or it blows up on you at full draw or an arrow splinters. Everything comes with some kind of risk, right? Inherent risk. That's just part of anything we do. Um, but yes, I would say your crossbows, especially from the tech side, are more dangerous. There's just so much energy stored in these bows, and they're so compact, right? Like these bows aren't 24 inches wide anymore.

KevinDooling:

These things are they're like this. They're from like wheel to wheel, are right next to each other.

ZakkPlocica:

Yeah, they're like 10 inches, some of them crazy, 12 inches, whatever. Um, so there's a lot of energy in there that could potentially it's got to go somewhere if it blows up, and it does. I mean, we've seen it. Um, I've never seen anybody hurt from them. It's just the the fact that it's in your face when they blow up that something could potentially happen. So I would say that they are more dangerous than a vertical bow, just the the amount that we see blow up. I've got a pile of crossbows every year that come in with delaminated limbs, broken limbs, dry fired, broken strings, cables. Um it it's just a massive we see a massive influx every year this time of year. And um I think a lot of it is uh self-induced. This comes back to not being proficient or understanding your equipment. A lot of people with crossbows, they they put them up, they bust them out every year. If they shoot them a couple times, they put them back up, they don't put new strings on them every year, they don't understand how to inspect them. And the big thing is with these new bows, they don't understand how they operate. When they're binding the tethers up in there, they're overcranking, overcocking. Um, they just don't fully understand because there's so many steps. It's like some of them are like six to eight steps to shoot it, right? And if you only shoot it once a year and you forget those steps and go back the next year, you do, and then we see issues with it. And you know, there's a lot of um, I see a lot of upset people every year because of cross crossbow malfunctions.

KevinDooling:

Yeah, well, I'll tell you, I I asked that question um because you know, when I was a when I was a kid, just getting into archery um at the uh at the store that well, those Bass Pro shops, right? Yeah, yeah. Uh they uh I'll never forget this guy that worked there, um, really super good guy. Um he ended up getting in some serious trouble, but he he had a customer come in, wanted to buy a crossbow, and I guess they took the customer out to the shooting range, and I guess they fired a few bolts or whatever the case is, but he left the range. The employee of the store left the range and was like, hey, do not touch the bow while I'm gone. Well, don't touch the hot burner, kid. You know what I mean? And and the uh the the uh the customer sustained a very serious injury. Um really yeah, basically, like I don't know the the exact you know details, but uh the dude received a huge laceration to his forehead, um, bled all over the place. And so I think uh that kind of scarred me as you know getting into hunting and everything.

ZakkPlocica:

So that was with a crossbow.

KevinDooling:

Yeah.

ZakkPlocica:

So that so that's interesting. I guess I could see that. So our our job, we sell bows in these bows in store, right? We also sell them on our website. You can go to extremoutfitters.com, you could order a bow. We ship it anywhere to you in the country. Um, but I would encourage people that buy crossbows always seem to want a deal, right? So they we see a lot of people ordering them online, Bass Bow, Bass Pro, Cabela's. What's the cheapest crossbow I can get? Right. So and they don't understand how they work, or they they don't have anyone instructing them and teaching them how to do it. And I guess because we work with the people on it, I don't see the injury side of things, right? You know, because we we walk them through every step, we show them, we put them on the range, make sure they're comfortable with it. But I guess I could see somebody who didn't know what they were doing, these being a lot more dangerous.

KevinDooling:

Right.

ZakkPlocica:

Um, just because they don't understand how much energy is in their face.

KevinDooling:

Do people usually, when they when they hunt with a crossbow, do they like cock them before going out to the woods?

ZakkPlocica:

I think that depends on who you ask. So some of them, yes. Like the the ones like the rope cocker ones where you where they're hard to cock or whatnot. And I think a lot of people do. They'll they pre-cock them, they take them out, they haul them up their stand, which is crazy to me pulling one out that's leather. That's my question. That's what's scary. Some people do though.

KevinDooling:

W yeah, no, I don't like that idea at all. It seems sketchy.

ZakkPlocica:

Yeah, I mean, but but like everything else, some people are willing to take more risks than others. I I'm a I'm a prime example, right? So whenever I climb a tree, I disconnect completely from the tree.

KevinDooling:

Do you?

ZakkPlocica:

Yeah, I do. And people rag on me. I've had friends that have fallen out of stands and stuff like that. I disconnect. So I I just use currently, this is the way my setup is for getting in a tree. I have um, I wear a saddle, but I use a lock on. And I just have I take like a hybrid approach, right? So when I climb the tree, I use my lineman's belt to climb. Then my lineman's belt is also my tether that secures me to the tree. Yeah. So whenever I get up, I have to take, I have to hook into my bridge, and then I disconnect from one side and I wrap around turn and um use that lineman's belt as my tether. So I have to disconnect for a minute. Not everybody agrees with that. I mean that's risk. That's risk that I I'm I'm willing to take that risk. Do I have to? No, but I don't want to carry that other tether.

KevinDooling:

I'm just well it's it's kind of similar for me because you know what what I'll do is I'll when I get up into my tree, I I still have my lineman's belt on, but I actually use that lineman's belt as to clip into the tree for my harness, if that makes any sense. Yeah. So like, yeah, I run it through. So I'm disconnected for a short period of time as well. You know what I mean? So that's how I am. Yeah. But I gotta be honest, I'm a little I'm trying to, I'm trying to come up with better ways to do that. Maybe, maybe carry another one of those, um, maybe carry another um Lyman's belt or something like that, so that way I can stay connected, you know.

ZakkPlocica:

But that that goes back to like that's how I used to. I had a tether and then a lineman's belt, and then I would I would never disconnect, but I didn't like carrying that other that other tether. I mean, yes. So there's there's risk with everything. It's how much risk you're willing to assume. Um, and some people are willing to take more risk than others.

KevinDooling:

Right.

ZakkPlocica:

Um, I don't know where we're going with that, but that's where you're gonna do that.

KevinDooling:

Yeah, we started with the hauling the bow up the tree, the risk.

ZakkPlocica:

Yeah, yeah. I mean the the great thing about the new bows, too, that you look at like is the technology. The technology is good and bad, I think, right? You get more energy out of the bow, these bows are much more likely to blow up from what I seen. We're on we're talking to customer service nonstop. But the other great thing is you can crank these bows way easier. So you remember if you ever tried to use a rope cocker on a crossbow, yeah, some of them are hard, man.

KevinDooling:

Right.

ZakkPlocica:

And if you're not tall, you've got to pull that thing way up.

KevinDooling:

Right. You gotta do your stretching beforehand, you know.

ZakkPlocica:

Yeah. But like these new bows where you have the crank systems in them, I mean, like kids can do it. It's cool. So guys who are over actually sh hurt, uh, shoulder injuries, young uh kids, females who aren't that strong, older people, they can crank these bows so much. Anyone can do it, right? It takes it down from like a hundred and some pounds to like five pounds to to crank really super many. Yeah, you just you just crank it up. It's it's uh it's super cool. Um, so again, it allows more people to shoot crossbows.

KevinDooling:

Um I still don't like them.

ZakkPlocica:

I don't know, man. I think they have their place. Um, and that's where I guess you would you you could look at it, man. And and obviously it's state dependent, um, and a hunter should have a say in it, I think. Um, you know, should crossbows have their own defined season, just not lumped in with with the archery um or firearms, yeah. You know, should it just be its own separate season that is, you know, I think I I don't know.

KevinDooling:

Yeah, I don't know. I think I think it's a difficult debate. It really is.

ZakkPlocica:

Um, and I think that people should have a say in it in the state you hunt in. Should I you should be able to get involved and say, you know, this is how we're gonna do it. We have a majority of vertical bow hunters here that don't want crossbows lumped in with the season. Cool.

KevinDooling:

And we'll change it.

ZakkPlocica:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're or that we got, you know, a state that's predominantly crossbow hunted.

KevinDooling:

They might kick conventional archers out. Or they're just lumped in together. Compound join trad gear and crossbows, you know.

ZakkPlocica:

You know, or they're just lumped in together. Um, like I said, I don't really know what the answer is, um, but I do think they have their place and I think they are an important part of the archery community and the hunting community as a whole, because like we've talked about, they allow people to get back in or get into the sport. It's a gateway into the sport. Um, and then it's just long term, I think it does us um more good than harm because we have more people to advocate for hunters and hunters' rights. Um, and that's like again important. Yeah. If we want to keep doing this thing, we got to have people that are pro-hunting. The more people we can have pro-hunting, the more access to public land we're gonna have, um, the more people are gonna advocate for hunters' rights, the less we got to deal with these anti-hunter crazies running around doing wild stuff. Um, and people see the value in hunting and why it's important to American culture, um, people, uh, and why it's important um just as a whole.

KevinDooling:

Right. I think we're gonna slap the table on uh the pros outweigh the bads, you know, with the crossbow thing.

ZakkPlocica:

I do, man. It comes to education. The more people are educated on them and they're not just last minute with them, the better it'll be. And I think that's the starting point. If you really, if you're a crossbow hunter and you want to change people's minds, you need to you need to start with being more proactive with your equipment, not being last minute. If you're somebody new that's getting into it and you want to hunt with a crossbow, I would say do your research, invest in a good bow. Take your time to learn that bow, and but even more so, take your time to learn what it means to be a good and respectful hunter. Um while you're getting out and getting in the woods.

KevinDooling:

Yeah, no, totally agree. Yeah.

ZakkPlocica:

So it's it's a tough one, man. Um it just again, back to the technology side of things. At some point, I think there has to be a line drawn, though. And I think some states do take that um into consideration, right? Because some states you can't use those Garmin sites, some states you can't use um lighted knocks.

KevinDooling:

And there's some states uh no expandables as well. No expandables. I don't know how to I don't understand the i idea behind that, but you know, whatever.

ZakkPlocica:

Um yeah, I don't either. Uh I think, especially now with the study that came out for James Yates and uh the guys at Easton the Arabistic, I think I think that should be should change a lot of people's mind when it comes to mechanical.

KevinDooling:

Right.

ZakkPlocica:

Uh personally, I think mechanical for majority of people is a better move. Um just to, again, heartache and headache, you're gonna have a lot less of it with a mechanical broadhead. That's not to say the guys that understand the tuning process, tuning fundamentals and basic um broadhead tuning capabilities, they they can shoot whatever they want, right? They're comfortable with it, they're confident, but they've done their research and they understand how it works. Yeah. Versus the guy that just wants to slap a head on and go hunt. If you're gonna do that, put a mechanical on there all day, right? Like a meet, something like that.

KevinDooling:

Yeah, no, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

ZakkPlocica:

So technology, I don't know, man. I don't know where you draw the line, I don't know what the answer is. Um, but I from just the conversation, I would like to hear from more people what their thoughts are on it and not just a hard no. Right.

KevinDooling:

You know, like leave it in the comments.

ZakkPlocica:

Yeah, leave it in the comments like legitimately why you are or aren't for this um kind of this crossover and like what's your reasoning, right? If you can step back and like logically think about it, you know.

KevinDooling:

Not just, not just I just don't like it. That's not a good answer. No, it's not.

ZakkPlocica:

There's a lot of things that I just don't like that are important to you.

KevinDooling:

We want sustenance. We do, like, yeah.

ZakkPlocica:

Sit step back and think about it. Like, why are you actually against it? And you know, what's the good that does the good outweigh the bad? Does the bad outweigh the good with it? Do we just need to do away with it and separate them all together? I'm very curious. Leave some comments, give us some feedback on it. Um, because I think it's an important topic. Uh, and it's a topic that a lot of people are passionate about, but I don't think they know exactly why they're passionate about it.

KevinDooling:

Right.

ZakkPlocica:

So maybe this will uh open up some of the discussion because I have not seen a lot about a lot of anything about crossing.

KevinDooling:

Yeah, not much debate out there.

ZakkPlocica:

There's not much debate. I've seen some articles on it about the actual rules and laws being changed, and then I see memes.

KevinDooling:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like see what New York did. Losers. Yeah.

ZakkPlocica:

I don't know, man. There's a lot. Um, what else you got? Anything else we haven't covered? Any thoughts?

KevinDooling:

I hope everyone's season is going good. Me too. Yeah.

ZakkPlocica:

Me too, man. Um do we got a hurricane off the coast right now?

KevinDooling:

It kind of was initially, and then it kind of made a made a loop season. It's kind of going back out.

ZakkPlocica:

But yeah, I'm curious to see what the hunting's like this week.

KevinDooling:

Yeah, yeah. My season's been pretty interesting so far.

ZakkPlocica:

So as has has mine. Uh started off really strong, then not so much. Kind of slow here lately.

KevinDooling:

Same thing. Yeah. My first sit, I was like, I saw that giant that I was after, and then and that womp, womp, womp. Like ever since then, you know, a lot of stuff going wrong.

ZakkPlocica:

That's how it's been for me. And all the people I've kind of watched, they're like, yeah, it's kind of slow.

KevinDooling:

Yeah.

ZakkPlocica:

Um, so I'm hopeful after this storm pushes off that maybe there'll be some good movement.

KevinDooling:

Yeah, like this weekend, I think we're looking at a little bit cooler temps. So I haven't even looked, man. Like if we got a couple low 60s coming in.

ZakkPlocica:

Yeah, Thursday in the mornings 57.

KevinDooling:

Oh, I'll be I'll be working, you know. So yeah, so will I.

ZakkPlocica:

Yeah, it looks like we're dropping off a little bit. The the rain's supposed to subside Tuesday.

Speaker 02:

Yeah.

ZakkPlocica:

We shall see, man. I'm excited. I'm excited for the season. If you're uh if you're a hunter, man, I hope everybody just gets out there and enjoys it. Um it's almost muzzle loader. Is has muzzle loader opened here? I don't think so. It should be soon. Yeah. So that's it. That's all I've got. Kevin, I appreciate your time, my friend. Absolutely. Go home and get some sleep. Yeah. So that's it, guys. The big crossbow debate. Drop some comments, give us some feedback. What do you think about New York and their change in rules and laws allowing crossbows to be available for the full archery season? Give us some feedback as always. We appreciate you guys listening, and we will see you guys in the next episode of the Archery Project.