Arrow Myths, Shop Struggles & What Shooters Really Need — Easton Unfiltered

Ever wonder where marketing hype ends and real performance begins? We sit down with Cody Griffin of Easton and map the line from factory floor to broadhead pass‑throughs, from ATA buzz to TAC mountainsides, and from spec sheets to shots that actually land in the vitals. It’s a candid tour of what works, what fails, and how to build smarter without getting lost in the weeds.

We start with the backbone of the industry—dealers—and why brands that truly support shops win long‑term. From there, we pull apart honest IBO claims, durability standards, and the safety testing Easton runs before an arrow ever leaves the building. The 5.0’s staying power surprised everyone, even through hunting season, while Axis 5mm still sets the bar for bulletproof reliability. FMJ Max steps in as the slick‑penetrating dark horse that mirrors Axis GPI, making it easy to swap builds without redoing your whole sight tape. If you’re hunting whitetails in the East or stretching out in the West, we share simple arrow recipes, practical glue tips, and why 450‑ish grains with a tuned bow and quality broadhead is a sweet spot for most bowhunters.

On the bow side, we compare Hoyt’s new limb‑tip tuning and indicators with shim confidence, PSE’s FDS cams and dynamic brace height that make “speed bow” feel shootable, and the rise of mid‑price bows that punch like flagships. We talk strings that hold timing for months, bomb‑proof setups built around Hoyt, Spot‑Hogg, and Hamskea, and when a backup set of strings—or a backup bow—isn’t optional. We also get real about content: why in‑house media beats outsourcing, how clean, family‑safe creators are lifting the sport, and the way TAC delivers the most valuable brand‑to‑shooter touchpoint today. For target fans, the new X10 3.2 Parallel Pro brings world‑class spine consistency and easier tuning, poised for Vegas lines and LA 2028.

If you want fewer variables, better hits, and gear that earns its place, this conversation is your shortcut. Subscribe, share with a friend who’s rebuilding their setup, and leave a review with your go‑to arrow weight—we’ll read our favorites on the show.

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Chapters

• 0:00 Holiday Catch‑Up & Deal Hunting
• 2:45 Brand Sales vs Dealer Support
• 5:55 Honest Reviews, IBO Claims & Transparency
• 8:45 Easton Leadership, Culture & Legacy
• 11:20 The 5.0 Arrow Demand & Use Cases
• 15:20 Durability, Safety Testing & Axis vs 5.0
• 19:00 Shipping Headaches & Build Tips
• 22:10 FMJ Max First Impressions & Hunting Builds
• 26:40 Lighted Nocks: Pros, Cons & Reliability
• 29:45 Keep It Simple: Arrow Choices That Matter
• 33:10 Content Creators, Clean Brands & Community
• 37:20 In‑House Media, Quality Content & Strategy
• 41:20 ATA, TAC, And Where The Industry Meets
• 45:30 Short Bows, New Tuning Systems & Durability
• 50:10 Mid‑Price Bows Level Up
• 53:30 PSE Sicario, Dynamic Brace Height & Speed
• 57:40 Strings, Stability & Backup Gear
• 1:01:00 X10 3.2 Parallel Pro Launch & Target Insights
• 1:05:30 Elite Target Shooters, Mindset & Records
• 1:09:00 Dealer Relations, Growth & Closing Notes

Transcript

Zakk Plocica: 0:00

All right, ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of the Archie Project. I'm your host, Zach Placeeka, and I got Mr. Cody Griffin from Easton, all the way from Salt Lake City, Utah, the day after Thanksgiving.

Cody Griffin: 0:09

Day after Thanksgiving.

Zakk Plocica: 0:10

Yeah, so headed home for Thanksgiving to hang out a little bit.

Cody Griffin: 0:14

Yeah, yeah. Saw the family, saw the in-laws, and gonna head back to the in-laws here in a couple days, tomorrow, I believe. So did you guys do any Black Friday shopping? Uh yeah, I bought some dumb stuff. Did you? Yeah, yeah. It got you? Damn man, I'm a marketer's like best friend. I believe that. I feel like dude, I only hunt sales though. I don't like you do that year-round though. I find the sales. I found the deals. Like a lot of 40% off stuff. Like it was a pair of like weightlifting shoes I wanted. They were what were they like $150 off? So I was like, yeah, I'm gonna snag these up. I'm gonna grab a couple supplements, grab some creatine.

Zakk Plocica: 0:49

You know, there's no better time to do it than today. I mean, but you do that all year. I remember Under Armour had some. Oh my gosh, dude. You bought all the I buy C I buy secondhand from you.

Cody Griffin: 0:58

I got them good. Like they I figured out their system. They run too many sales. Yeah, but you can predict it. Yeah, it's it's easy to do as a shop when you got to move inventory, right? Yeah, well, I mean, they're they definitely have the margin to do it. Yes, they do. But they also have the customer service. Like, this is what messed me up with Under Armour. They shipped like a couple of clothes that were like completely not on my order. And I was like, I need to get these back to them. And in exchange, they gave me like a 40% off coupon. And I was like, for real. I was like, can I use this on order these on clearance stuff? And they were like, you can actually stack it with other coupons. I was like, so I was getting stuff for like 80% off.

Zakk Plocica: 1:34

Dude, so that's what makes it so hard for some of these shops, right, to compete. Like, like for extreme outfitters for us, like when we have we have to compete against the manufacturer of the brand, that's a hard pass for me, man.

Cody Griffin: 1:45

Yeah, that's and that's the cool thing I like about Easton. You know, we're not the only thing we have on our website's components. That's a lot of shops aren't carrying extra components and stuff. Because it's a lot.

Zakk Plocica: 1:53

Yeah. You know, that's what I was just looking at the website and you know, looking at your guys' Black Friday sale, and it's it's it's apparel, apparel, and and basic stuff that most of your shops aren't.

Cody Griffin: 2:02

It's to get the brand out there, man.

Zakk Plocica: 2:03

That's all it's for. Yeah, I mean, if we had to compete with you against like arrows, I mean you would crush us.

Cody Griffin: 2:09

Well, I mean, it's it's hard to think about because how much I think about how many dealers support us, right? You know, and that you can only buy Easton, you know, add a dealer. And then if that dealer has an online website, I don't think you can buy them on Amazon or anything like that. Like you can't, we're not like on Amazon direct. Like a shop might have an Amazon account or something, but it's still through the dealer. Everything's got to go through the dealer.

Zakk Plocica: 2:33

Yeah, which is huge, right? Dealer support is key. I mean, without the we say it all the time, without the archery shops, I mean, there's no archery industry, right? They're the backbone of the industry. Uh, and having brands that actually support the shops is is critical. But it goes hand in hand though, too, right? The shops got to support the manufacturers in the way of, in my opinion, investing in the brand. 100%.

Cody Griffin: 2:56

It's a it's a two-way street, and you know, the the accounts that are successful realize that. And they're not just successful with our brand, they're successful with multiple brands, and honestly, even outside the archer industry, if they have like a you know, a four-season store in a sense.

Zakk Plocica: 3:10

So Yeah, I mean it it's critical nowadays. I mean, I think like when you look at as a whole, as a shop, like marketing one-on-one at this point essentially is you have to be social media heavy, you have to have an e-commerce presence.

Cody Griffin: 3:23

100%, man. That's uh that's unless you're in like a little pocket market, you know, like you can get away with it. There's some shops that do get away with it. Right. You know, and they've got their own legacy brand, you know, they've been there for 40, 50 plus years, and their customer service is through the roof, and everyone within a 200 mile square radius is gonna go to them.

Zakk Plocica: 3:40

Yeah, yeah. And and but unfortunately, like not all shops are like that, though, right? So some of them they're anomalies. Yeah, absolutely. Um, but I think it it's important. Like the it takes two, like you gotta have a when you I'm as a manufacturer, when we look at it, like there's got to be a demand for the product, right? And the manufacturer's got to create that demand with their own marketing plans and strategies, and then the dealers have to do the same for their brand and then the brands they sell. And I think it's important that you represent the brands you sell in a good manner.

Cody Griffin: 4:10

It's a it's what we call a compliment sandwich, is what I call it. You know, you'll call out the fluff if you need to, and like, hey, this is where this shines a little bit better than this product, or this is something, you know, I'd like to see differently, or this is one of the the features that you know you might want to take into consideration, you know, in buying this product. But I mean that's it's good that brands like you know, MFJJ's done a I started like watching a lot of his stuff recently just to kind of get like just get around his mindset. Like what is he he always presents a product well, he doesn't necessarily tarnish it or anything like that, but he calls out like, oh, it didn't, like this bow didn't hit IBO. You know, like why is that? Like trying to figure things out. But I mean he's done a really good job. You guys do a really good job of it of not, you know, tearing down a brand, but you know, saying like, hey, I'd like to see a little bit more of this, or you know, give him feedback is ultimately what it is.

Zakk Plocica: 4:56

You know, I think it's important because just because something doesn't particularly work for me or the guys here doesn't mean it's not a perfect fit for someone else. Correct. And our job is not to sway somebody to buy one over the other, right? It's information. It's information, and that's where we try our hardest to be as unbiased. Obviously, there's gonna be you can't do that perfectly, yeah, right? There's gonna be some in there, but our our goal is to provide the information. Same thing with you know, with this, with the R Tree project, it's information based. Um, whether you go out and buy the product that we review or not, that's that's up to you. But our goal is to provide good information and our experience with the product. Um, and like you said, point out where we see it strong and then where areas where, you know, hey, maybe why isn't this performing as as it should? Because there are some brands and some products and some manufacturers out there that maybe I would say fluff um performance-wise a little bit, you know, church it up a little bit more than what it is.

Cody Griffin: 5:53

A couple feet per second, and they you know, you know, that's the thing.

Zakk Plocica: 5:56

That's the thing now about you can't do that, you can't get away with it. The voices are too loud, man. They are too loud. And it's you've got to be, and I think we've seen that a shift in that. You know, when we look at even IBO now, most of your companies now are you know have have changed a little bit. They're hitting IBO. Yeah, I would say most of it.

Cody Griffin: 6:13

I mean, it's good though. It's it keeps everybody in line. And you know, then if a if a shop really like nags on a product, then that manufacturer can go, hey dude, I can provide you with information, the whole technical white paper, you know, the white sheet, whatever it might be on why this product's doing what it's doing, you know, or how are you setting it up this way, that way, whatever it might be. But you know, that's what I like about arrows. Arrows are cut and dry, man. It's like here's the truth behind the product. We'll show you the manufacturing process, what the details are in it, and you know, where this thing fits out in the in the archer industry, what it's supposed to do what it's meant to do.

Zakk Plocica: 6:44

Yeah, no doubt. And Easton does it well, obviously, right? The number one arrow brand within the industry and has been since like the beginning of time, since like the dinosaur age. I mean, there's no one that does it better, there's no one that has a bigger presence, and there's nobody that's won more gold medals than Easton. I mean, medals in general. Metals in general, right? Uh so obviously uh you guys do a very good job, and you guys got a good job as far as like representation, too.

Cody Griffin: 7:09

Which is it starts with Greg, dude. Everyone wants to impress that guy. And like, right, I mean, every I mean, like, you don't want to disappoint them. Yeah, that's a big thing. But you don't want to disappoint your leadership, you know, like my boss Gary. I don't want to disappoint him or my boss Tyson or Aaron, you know, or even the guys that I work hand in hand with or beside, it's like, man, like everyone's tugging the boat the same direction. And I mean, we just got good leadership, you know, there at Easton. I think that's what really separates us is the leadership and the the drive everybody's got there. Every oh dude, all we do is think about arrows. Like that is it's arrows hunting and target archery, what's happening on, what's going on in the world of that space. I mean, and then Greg's the same way. Greg is like, I just got Greg some stabilizers, some components, some arrows ordered up. He just uh became the president of World Archery. So his dad, Jim, was actually the president for quite some time at World Archery as well, and sat on the IOC, the Olympic, you know, committee, the International Olympic Committee, I think is what it stands for. But now to see Greg's, you know, legacy being built into that, the world archery stage, he's getting back into the recurve, Olympic recurve side of things. So it's cool to see the man that's the company literally is built around, you know, really get into it and who's taking lessons like from George Tekmachov, who's like the ultimate authority of arrows, you know, like of knowledge of arrows, I should say. Constantly a student of the game. Man, he's important. He is, dude. He is indeed. Yeah, super cool to see.

Zakk Plocica: 8:24

Yeah, I mean, and that makes a big difference in a brand too, right? Because there's a lot and I'll I'll say the same thing for like shops. There's a lot of you can sell anything, yeah. But when you have somebody that's behind the counter or within the in your manufacturing side, brand side, whatever that actually lives it and breathes it, it puts a different spin on it. There's a face that you can uh put to that, and you know that this company is not just in it, just uh building or pushing a product, they actually live it and breathe it, which I think is builds confidence in the end user or the consumer. Right? They're like this dude actually knows this stuff and does things. Uh he doesn't just haphazardly do this, it's not just a paycheck, it's a lifestyle.

Cody Griffin: 9:00

I mean, he worked from like the bottom of the company up, Greg did, you know, like he knows he is extremely intelligent on everything that goes on there, I feel like. Like he he's very, very knowledgeable. I mean, he knows a lot more than I do, and man, I've been in this deal for you know 15 plus years, so right. Started from the bottom. Yep. Now you're here.

Zakk Plocica: 9:18

Now you're there. Now he's yeah, he's there, man. Yeah. That's funny, dude. So I mean, what are you guys as seeing right now, right? We're what we're end of November. Um, I mean, what arrow is really performing for you guys as far as when you look at like Whitetail, um, like maybe like Eastern versus West Coast. What are you guys seeing more of as far as sales go? Do you have that information?

Cody Griffin: 9:42

Five-o just blue expectations. I mean, there were a lot of there were a couple of us at Eastern that knew it was gonna do really well, but I don't think anyone thought it was gonna do as well as it did.

Zakk Plocica: 9:52

Well, my my thought was maybe it would die off a little bit for hunting season, right? It was gonna be a big tack arrow because tack is the driver for the offseason, right? Total archery challenge. And then I figured it would maybe die off a little bit as we got into hunting season. Guys go back to like the Axis five mil, maybe the access four mil. And it doesn't seem like that has been true from what I see as far as sales, right? We've noticed a consistent tick up with the 5-0.

Cody Griffin: 10:18

I think we, you know, engineering did a good job of building that thing, and you know, marketing and sales did a really good job of positioning it in the sense of we took market share, I think. And I think we're not necessarily cannibalized some of the access sales because access still did really well. Yes. But I think it's that we put out a product that people wanted that were buying from other brands and you know, around that same GPI to, you know, to OD diameter, that five mil spec. And you know, I I'm a big Axis guy, but I mean I do have some five O's built, and that's for me, the Axis makes sense at my draw length, but I'm not your I'm shorter than your average draw length, you know, so I can get away with a 340 spine and shoot 420 grains all day long. But most people want a 420 to 450 grain arrow.

Zakk Plocica: 10:59

Is that do you notice that as kind of like the standard? Like that weight.

Cody Griffin: 11:02

I think a lot of people like to stay in it's been so regurgitated, you know, that 285 plus, and now you know this aeroballistic study, you're starting to see the van configurations, you know, that we partner with James Yates on or power James Yates, I should say, and Tristan on. And I think that's that that's the the gold standard is you know, the minimum gold standard is 285 feet a second or 280 feet a second quicker or quicker, you know.

Zakk Plocica: 11:28

No, that I I think that kind of holds true. Uh I mean from what we see, I mean that's kind of our I mean our talking point. I think most shops would probably agree.

Cody Griffin: 11:36

100%, yeah.

Zakk Plocica: 11:38

Um but you know, one thing, the concern with the 5.0 is the durability, right? And I think even we talked about this prior to the 5.0 being built. You know, talking about Easton's not gonna go and build something that's super lightweight, just doesn't it's brittle and doesn't have the durability side. Um, and that was the concern.

Cody Griffin: 11:56

Safety's number one, like safety is the first priority at Easton. Like, man, there's so many rigorous torture tests that thing goes through, and it's vetted, honestly. You know, there's a lot of guys that were out, you know, many years in the field with that shaft, you know, internally, and shoot, we were shooting them at tack before we launched them just to see what was gonna happen, you know, and you know, as far as shooting these things at a long bomb distance, 120 yards, shooting them in a rebar and stuff like that. And you know, it's um, you know, just to be up front, it is not the same, it doesn't have the same attributes like an Axis does.

Zakk Plocica: 12:27

Well, so I think that's where people get confused, right? When they when we talk about durability, there's I in my opinion, there's not really an arrow that you can compare to the Axis 5. And that's the downfall of the 5-0 is it's compared to the Axis 5 mil.

Cody Griffin: 12:40

It's in a different league.

Zakk Plocica: 12:41

It it is. I mean, the Axis 5 mil is bulletproof. I mean, when it comes to durability, just reliability. Dude, we had a dude shoot one into a lawnmower. Yeah, like into the mower, and it was fine. Dude, I shot one in Ruben's fence.

Cody Griffin: 12:53

Like, and I mean, we dude, we good gracious, I've gotten so many access stories. But man, on the same uh the same the flip side, I've done the same thing with five O's. Like I've shot them, I've missed a friggin' deer out the back of Easton and shot it into the wood. And we're not talking, we're talking the woods lined up, you know, it's probably you know three-quarters of an inch thick, but behind it there's a post. And me and this guy, Ty, both like shot, but we bit we misranged this deer or something. We both shot over its back and smoked this fence. And we pulled both of our arrows out just fine.

Zakk Plocica: 13:23

Yeah. Now, I mean, too. I've shot so I went to the five, I've always been a nice five mil guy as well. I went to the five-o this year. I shot it all season at TAC. Yep. Um, you know, just see. I mean, it was a great tack build, what I built it for. And I was like, you know what? I'm gonna carry this over into hunting season. I have had no issues at Total Archery Challenge, haven't broke one. I shot three deer so far with it, all you know, pass-throughs from North Carolina to Kentucky, you know, from the full, you know, broadside to a full almost quartering two real hard through the full body cavity, and I've not had one arrow break whatsoever. They've all been paired with uh, I think a quality broadhead and a tuned bow. Oh, for sure. Uh, which is important.

Cody Griffin: 14:01

I think that is a big player. And then, you know, dude, we've shipped out so many of these. I I don't even know the total number. It's hundreds and hundreds of thousands of shafts. But you know, I feel like part of that's just got to our shop the other day.

Zakk Plocica: 14:15

Yeah. We got our huge our booking order in and boy are we loaded on some East and Arrows.

Cody Griffin: 14:19

Well, I think um, you know, the volume of that stuff when you ship it out, I think there's a lot of shipping stuff. We've I've seen I've had some photos submitted and went, hey, look, what does the packaging look like? There's a clear tire mark over the shafts.

Zakk Plocica: 14:28

Bro, like, okay, we're let's talk about shipping right now. So just so everyone understands, shipping is the most frustrating part, I think, for us with our e-commerce business. Dude, when we talk about like, I don't normally want to bash a shipping company, but FedEx, bro, atrocious. Are they bad? Oh, dude, like just my wife had stuff shipped to our house, and it's and they're delivering it a county over.

Cody Griffin: 14:52

Oh, dude, I had some stuff that was supposed to be for my wife's birthday. It was supposed to be two to three-day FedEx, is what it said.

Speaker 2: 14:59

Oh, yeah.

Cody Griffin: 14:59

And that was the you know, after it shipped. Well, it ships, you know, within a day of leaving the warehouse, and it it took nine days to get here, like past her birthday. And I'm like, this sucks. Like, and it wasn't coming from internationally, it was coming from New York, going to Utah, you know. But I don't enemy those guys in their jobs right now this time of the year.

Zakk Plocica: 15:16

I don't either, but I'll I'll look at some like because we sh we ship air, we do we ship hundreds of arrows a week. Oh, yeah. Right. Um, and shipping is the biggest downfall, right? We've had some issues with inserts pull out. Like I'd say 5.0's our biggest been our biggest struggle for whatever reason really um as far as inserts pulling out. Um, but I think we've remedied that. Yeah, uh, we've talked about it a little bit before, you get a little bit more. We stopped using, you know, we I hot melt everything for a build for myself for testing. And then when I go to like this is gonna be the build, I use a permanent glue. Right. Uh so we swipped swapped glues, and I think that's remedied the issue for the most part. But dude, we ship these arrows to these to customers, and they'll they're like, our arrows are broke. I can't believe this. And and I'm like, okay, we always request pictures too. Like, can you not that we don't trust you, but can you so we can remedy this and figure out what the issue is? It's always shipping. It's like somebody took the box and broke it over their knees.

Cody Griffin: 16:07

Does FedEx take care of people on that?

Zakk Plocica: 16:09

We don't ship FedEx, yeah, they do. Like, do they give you guys like a credit or like UPS, USPS? We gotta file a claim. It's a process, but it puts the customer in a bad position and then us in a bad position.

Cody Griffin: 16:17

Well, that's the thing is like, oh, I hate it that you know a shop's gotta go through that and then you know they gotta purchase more product and it's we gotta ship it out for them right away, and then we gotta eat the cost until you know we hopefully get reimbursed by the shipping company.

Zakk Plocica: 16:29

100%.

Cody Griffin: 16:29

Do you guys like you get it at MSRP or map, or do you show the invoice receipt of how much that customer paid for as far for that product? Yeah, there's yeah, there's a whole process. So you're not really out, you're just out of time and product, you know, we gotta wait for yeah, exactly.

Zakk Plocica: 16:42

So we gotta double ship this, then we gotta eat the shipping costs, yep, you know, stuff like that. So I mean, it's a headache, and especially this time of year, it's it's obviously the worst because shipping is incredibly busy, Black Friday sales and then holiday coming up. Yep, so it's wild. Um, but yeah, dude, 5-0 has been absolutely phenomenal. Just a I think as far as like a five mil arrow, um, you just get so many options when it comes to building it. Yeah, and that's the great thing about it, whether you want it light and fast, you want it FOC focused, whatever you want to do. It's a double-edged sword, man, with the amount of phone calls we get.

Cody Griffin: 17:11

Like, how would you build this thing? And then it's like, man, it's this is not a one-size-fits-all arrow. I mean, it is, and that's the this arrow can fit anybody, yeah, and it can be built anyway. It can be built heavy, it can be built for speed, FOC, you know. Um, and then its tangent counterpart, the new FMJ Max. Wow.

Zakk Plocica: 17:27

Like, whoa. So yeah, you sent me some of those, which I'm going to Texas here in literally a couple days. You're gonna love that arrow, dude.

Cody Griffin: 17:34

Yeah, it's freaking, it is like it's the dark horse, is what I refer to it as in the lineup.

Zakk Plocica: 17:39

So, you know, I I look, I go back and forth with things, right? Like, I'm typically, I don't like to experiment. I'm gonna be straight up. Like, I when I find something that works, dude, don't reinvent the woof if you got to, dude, it's hard to get off of it for me. But I also know my position and what I do that I've got to understand the different products and you know, test them. I think it's important so that we can give real feedback. All of our guys do. Um, but you sent me these FMJ Maxes. I have never been an FMJ guy. Ever. Never. I've never because it's too heavy for most people with the standard FMJ. Not only that, but I also understand aluminum is the straightest, most consistent. You're it's not gonna be any more consistent than that. It's gonna, it's superior until it's not, though. That's the other downfall of it, right? So, like if you happen to miss a target, you hit a hard spot and it bends, that bend is retained. Yeah, but the FMJ Max is kind of unique, I think, too. Um, it obviously still has the same cons, but with the new, like that little bit lower GPI, Eastern Whitetail hunting, it's just a really I've been playing with them a little bit more, and I mean, the more I I mess with it, I'm like, oh yeah, you know, maybe the the pros outweigh the cons for me in this.

Cody Griffin: 18:48

I think they do. You know, I I shot FMJs. Um, this was way back in the day when knock on John did the knock on errors when he first brought them out. I bought a bought a set of FMJs and a set of axis, and you know, they come with the brass and the 340 FMJ with like 50 grains of brass up front was heavy, it was like 540 some odd grains or something like that. Man, it's a lot for like for me, like this thing's freaking doing a rainbow, you know, going to the target. And um, but the thing that I liked about them was they definitely penetrated and they were easy to pull out of a target. Like that's I was like, man, I didn't gotta beat myself up pulling like these in the hot summer sun, you know, freaking foam sticking to a carbon arrow, you know, and it doesn't stick to an FMJ. So at all, you know, like a Sonic 6.0.

Zakk Plocica: 19:29

Yeah, heat coming in there, man. It says five mil, man, it's like it melts to it, and you gotta you gotta constantly clean the shaft again. So yeah, it's it is there's there's pros and cons to everything, and I'm really excited to take them out there because like looking at it like build-wise, specifically for like just a hunting, hunting bow or hunting rig or hunting setup, whatever you want to call it. Um, I like simplicity and I don't need a bow that's shooting 300 feet per second. I don't want one, I'll be honest. For if the tuning becomes a little bit more challenging, it becomes a little bit less forgiving, I think. Personally, when a bow shoots that fast, especially when you put a broadhead on the front of it. Yeah, it'd be on your P's and Q's. You do. And let's be real, like when you're in that scenario, you want the most forgiving setup. James Yates identified all of these error issues within that study, right? Build for forgiveness when it comes to a bow hunter. That's what you want. Usually in a weird position, awkward position, emotions, hormones are dumped, you know, it's go time. Yep. And if you make a mistake, you want something that's gonna be a little bit more forgiving, give you a little bit more error of margin.

Speaker 2: 20:25

Yep.

Zakk Plocica: 20:26

Um, and that's how I like to build like a bow hunting setup, especially for Eastern Whitetail. Yeah. Um and it's different, but if I have a hybrid build, like is what I've shot all year, it's a little bit different. I like it a little bit faster. But going to Texas, this is specific for hunting. So simplistic. Um it's gonna be a little bit heavier arrow than what I've run. I don't know. I haven't weighed them to see what they're at. It's a 300 spine, it's got AAE max stealth and a three-fletch, it's got the standard insert, standard hit insert with a collar. It's a 300.

Cody Griffin: 20:58

You're probably gonna be pushing in the 450s, I think. Which is 450s, 470s, which is I don't know.

Zakk Plocica: 21:03

For this, it'll be a sweet spot because we'll be shooting, you know, pigs, whitetail, all kinds of stuff.

Cody Griffin: 21:07

So I like that arrow because it it really replicates the GPI of the axis.

unknown: 21:13

Yes.

Cody Griffin: 21:13

You know, so now I can build with that, they're they're like literally a third of a grain difference or like two-tenths of a grain difference or something along the lines, depending on the spine, but I don't have to like reside anything and you know, like I it might be a yard difference at like 55 or something like that or 60 yards, but I don't have to go through that whole process and it's the same spine, so I'm not really retuning or anything like that. But that's what I like about it, is like, oh, now I can go and shoot this hair all summer and I can go shoot it attack into these targets, and you know, and if I if I don't want to shoot an FMJ for some reason at an animal, I can go and shoot an axis, and it's gonna be relatively on the GPI or on the actual, you know, to the grain. You know, I don't have to redo anything. That's the nice thing that I like about it.

Zakk Plocica: 21:55

But yeah, I'm the same, man. When it comes to like I'm building this bow specific for this, uh, because we're doing some some different things while we're going out there. Um, and that's always for me, man, going through the process of shooting a new bow, setting a new bow up. You know, it's fun, but at the same time, I'm like, man, I shoot this other bow really, really well. Yeah, I'm very comfortable and confident with it. Now we're gonna sh shake things up a little bit. New arrow build, new bow build, new sight. Gotta go through the process of siting it all back in.

Cody Griffin: 22:20

Well, man, I'll tell you, you know, like speaking on that axis part and like shooting him at animals and stuff. I haven't shot anything with an FMJ, but like Dan Staten, he's told me he's killed more elk with a six millimeter FMJ than any other arrow and just blowing through animals. But I think it's got a lot to do with that slick surface of that aluminum, you know, especially when it's wet. When it gets wet, it's gonna really slide through something. Right. You know, it's got a very uh, you know, the viscosity is very low on that. So I mean it doesn't really resist the the flow of passing through stuff. But dude, one of our one of our guys, Ty, he loves FMJ because like he's man, he blow dude, he's blowing through some white tail recently. And it's crazy to watch his clips because that thing zooms through that animal and you can see the light and knock and the arrows just kicked out back somewhere, and it's like he goes, dude, these things just they just they literally just move to an animal. I mean, it doesn't really stop doing it, or you know, it just there's nothing in the animal to really stop it.

Zakk Plocica: 23:08

Yeah. No, I mean that's a great point. Uh I mean, but I would say too, man, just a five mil shaft in general, like a going to a five mil, I think. I mean, as far as like do it all, I mean, especially I've always hunted with a if there's one diameter that most people want to stick with and play with, I'd choose a five mil for the hit insert.

Cody Griffin: 23:26

You can put a collar on it, you know, typically lighted knocks. There's no, you know, uh fillers or you know, what's the what's the the stuff that the nocturnals use in all these other knock companies? It's like a like for a six mil you put it in the city. Oh, the the bushings, the bushings, yeah.

Zakk Plocica: 23:41

Yeah, the bushings in order. Yeah, that's the great thing about the five mil because it plugs right into the back if you run into lighted knock. But so what are your thoughts on lighted knocks? Because I've never been personally a lighted knock guy. See, that's the problem. I hate I hate the gamble.

Cody Griffin: 23:53

They're kind of inconsistent. I like, and I honestly haven't shot one in probably four or five years, you know. Um, but it's when I was shooting them, I got like a pile from one of the reps. Um, I believe they were the Nocturnals, I want to say. But I did that that batch I had, I had like a dozen, and they weren't really bad, but I didn't really practice with it. Like, man, we're shooting 25 yards here in North Carolina. You're not gonna see a difference in that little lighted knock at 25 yards. I hate to break it to you, but you're not that good. Like, that's just that's just the truth on it. But I mean, it's probably different you're running out west, you're shooting 80 yards. There's probably gonna be a little bit of a drop, you know, that knock being, yeah, that knock being a little bit heavier, but um there's there's a lot of better, there's some better ones on the market now, like the Glory Knox or what is that the Halo or the Halo Nock is one that we sell that seem to perform pretty well.

Zakk Plocica: 24:39

I mean, they all I think have their their weak points at some point. And I've heard the nocturnals got better. Guys in office, they run them for some stuff. Yeah, yeah. I just yeah, I don't know, man. It's it's always a gamble. I mean, obviously pros and cons of everything, like we talk about. Um, but I just look at failure rate. Like if if I know the X knock, that micro light knock, it's not gonna fail on me. Yeah, you know, but I've seen, especially at longer draw lengths, higher poundage bows, some of the lighted knocks failures, yeah. And you know, where they're kind of catastrophic, where it derails the bow um and kind of blows it up. And yeah, I mean that can be from a host of things, right? It can be obviously neglect your equipment, you don't pay attention to what you're doing, but also it's a different material.

Cody Griffin: 25:22

I mean you gotta think about all the crap that's in that little duck. You got batteries, some wires, like it's just not as good. You're trying to keep it light, you know, you're trying to keep it. Um dude, I will give you another one that's been pretty dang good. It's those uh Luminox. Oh, have they? Like the original Luminox, like it's it's a little bit, I wouldn't say cumbersome. You gotta put a little bit more effort into setting it up, but it's um the videos I've seen that people that shoot them, they work, they don't fail. I mean, it's it's like a connection between the knock and the shaft when it go when it strikes, you know, the arrow fires, right? It does light up, you know. I mean, and the knock, the knock's a little bit heavier, I think, but that's where you get that little bit more durability from.

Zakk Plocica: 26:02

So makes sense. You gotta sacrifice somewhere. Yeah. Yeah. So what are you guys seeing as far as um where was I going with this? Oh, so when we talk arrows, right? Like it's very, very easy to get overwhelmed and I think do too much for most people. For like your standard run-of-the-mill guy who just bow hunts, you know, they really I overcomplicate the process. Do you see that? Like where it's just like, man, you're really trying to take this and to turn it into something more than what it is.

Cody Griffin: 26:34

I think a lot of guys need to spend more time shooting their bows, me included. I think most people. Yeah, like the then the guys that really nerd out, like James. James just put up a photo of a hundred-yard group and he's like hitting a three by three piece of tape, you know. He shoots his bow, but he's also doing the nitty-gritty of building his stuff. And man, I think most people a 6.5 bow hunter, a sonic, a 5-0 axis, you know, those people don't need a lot of people, you know, think, oh, I need the X10 parallel pros. Yeah, most people really probably will see a difference out of them if you're a really good shooter and stuff like that. But the guy that's just shooting at 20 yards and stuff, man, go get some 6.5s, go get some axis and and spend some really good, you know, spend a lot of time behind the bow and get better.

Zakk Plocica: 27:18

Yeah, I agree. I think, you know, we have people like I want to weigh out every single component. Oh my god. I'm like, I'm like, listen, man, what bow are you shooting? They're like, I'm shooting at an edge 320. And I'm like, no. This arrow setup that you got costs more than your bow, man. You already, you don't have you're you're wasting your time and your money on this when you should be spending time, like you said, behind the bow. A 6.5 bow hunter, dude. That's our number one selling arrow.

Cody Griffin: 27:42

Dude, that's that arrow is made on the same machines that FMJ, Axis, 5.0, Sonic, I mean, are made on. Like there's it, it's it's a different diameter. It's a little bit different recipe when it comes to the carbon side. Think of like a cake, it's a couple different ingredients different, but it's made on the same machines. I mean, it goes through the same process as far as like the the sorting and the stuff and the making sure that these shafts are like perfect and flawless, you know, when they get to a dealer. But I mean, like, dude, Levi shoots a he likes a six mil and a six point five.

Zakk Plocica: 28:14

Which Levi are we talking about?

Cody Griffin: 28:15

Marshall. Oh, Marshall, yeah.

Zakk Plocica: 28:17

So it's funny. I just talked to him. And he's a killer. He's a he kills more than probably 95% of the people I interact with. Listen, so there's a difference between like those dudes, right? Like, it doesn't matter what they shoot. It doesn't matter the weapon, it doesn't matter the arrow.

Cody Griffin: 28:32

They're objective driven, they're not technical driven, you know.

Zakk Plocica: 28:36

They obviously they invest their time behind their equipment, they're efficient with it. They it's set up correctly for them. But you could give them anything and they're gonna be dart gun, dude. I mean, they'll figure it out. Yeah, yeah. I think that's one of the big differences that we kind of or I've kind of observed with the guys that really get it, is they're not tied up into the product, they're not looking at, oh, how much does my I asked Levi, I said, what's your your ideal uh arrow weight? He's like, I don't know. Someone hits 400 to 450 grains, I guess. He's like, as long as it's in there, I don't really care. I'm like, yeah, that's kind of the same approach. Yep. Um, I've noticed most guys take that do well. It's just is it's built good, it's set up for me. Yeah, it'll work. I just gotta I gotta do the work now.

Cody Griffin: 29:16

Dude, most of it is at Easton, we shoot like non-match grade stuff, just because it's cheaper for us, and you know, and it's dude, we're like some of us will have some match grade product, and a lot of us will just have standard grade, and you know, truth be told, a lot of that standard grade stuff's like freaking phenomenal. It's a part of it's flawful. Yeah.

Zakk Plocica: 29:37

Yeah, I've noticed that, man. I mean, I I I again I think a lot of people really get caught up in the weeds with things and when it just And it's part of our like it's part of my job to get them caught up in the weeds and spot up people.

Cody Griffin: 29:46

Of course. That's and you know, I like it to a degree. Um the guys that you know that are they don't have the gr you can tell they don't spend a lot of time shooting, but they spend more time about worrying about what's the latest and greatest side or rest or bow or you know, and stuff like that. And so I mean if I could just switch your framework on how you're thinking, you know, if you'd spend more time shooting the bow, if you go out there and, you know, shot a 3D tournament or attack, you know, a couple times and really invested time getting really good at like, you know, shooting and form and all that stuff, then you can dive into the you know the nitty-gritty of the equipment. And that's when you make the most of it, though. That's when you get all the benefits of everything, you know.

Zakk Plocica: 30:20

And then it's justifiable to spend additional money on that step up or that little bit more superior product because you've dialed in your technique and your form. Because behind a bow, everything matters. Yeah, like every input into that bow is critical to the flight of that arrow.

Speaker 2: 30:35

Yeah.

Zakk Plocica: 30:36

Because if you're gripping that bow wrong, the bow's not in tune, it's not set up specifically for you, your release is crazy, you know, you're gonna have bad arrow or inconsistent arrow flight, I should say.

Cody Griffin: 30:46

Correct. And then that truly disparages the product in that person's mind. Absolutely. That's the other thing. And then the other, the really big kickers, it almost can disparage a shop. You know, oh that my stuff's not right. Like I do, you don't know how many times I get like some some technical service calls, and you know, and I really enjoy them because then I get to like set them straight in a sense of like, hey man, this is what you really need to focus on. Like, you know, this is hard to tell some people that. Uh well, it is, and then but when you not to say that I have a pedigree or anything like that, but like when I guess it's like a big deal for someone to talk to someone at the factory, like someone that's in the in the works, in and out, and they hear it from them, it like validates everything that shop just said. So it's cool to say that I can validate, you know, that shop or that dealer, you know, that that customer goes to, and it's like, yeah, man, they're doing it right. I was like, you know what I would do? I'd spend a hundred bucks on a good lesson with them or something like that. And I was like, you're gonna get the most benefit out of that product. You know, you're gonna get every ounce you can out of that bow setup, out of that arrow setup, you know, you're out of all your equipment. You're just gonna multiply, you know, the benefits that you bought bought it for. Right. Yeah.

Zakk Plocica: 31:47

I think that's the uh that's the dealer support that dealers are looking for too. I mean, when you refer them back and you, you know, especially if the dealer's doing right by the customer and the customer just doesn't quite understand it. Yep, you know, which I get. There's a lot of movie parts in archery, man. It's there's a lot that goes on, and there's a lot of information out there. Tons of it. I mean, look, I mean, you look at your all your favorite influence out there. You know, you brought you talked about some of them, the MFJJ dude, um, that kid Ty Tyson. Ty Jordan, yeah. Ty Jordan. Yeah. I mean, uh, a lot of good, a lot of tons, tons of good information out there. Good dudes, um, entertaining, I would say. Uh very entertaining. The other one, that bow, uh, what's the bow kid's name? Uh his name's Scott. Bo uh he's in Georgia. I met him at Texas. He's a very nice guy. He's super funny, man.

Cody Griffin: 32:31

Bo boy. Bo boy. Yeah. His name's Scott, right? Yeah. But you know the thing I like about these guys, they all have really good form, and they, you know what they do most of the time? They shoot their bow. You know, they're doing everything we're talking about right here.

Zakk Plocica: 32:43

They're they're following the the technical sheet. Right. They're they're great for the yeah, but they're, you know, they do a really good job. Um, and I I think some of them are clearly very talented too, um, behind the camera, like Ty, especially. I like checking out his stuff. He does a really, really good job.

Cody Griffin: 32:59

They're a nice guy too, man. I'm I'm like, I'm excited for what he's doing. You know, he's he's doing it the right way. And the thing I really like about him is he's humble, man. He'll tell you if you don't know something, like, man, I don't really know, you know, too much about this thing. He'll he's not the he's not gonna make up something, you know, just to do it. The funniest thing is is there's this guy that we uh we work with back in Utah. He's such a good dude. I ain't gonna blast his name or anything, but uh they were all shooting tack together. And this guy, he was, you know, he he can talk some south, some southern language, you know, chip in there some some certain words. And the guy asked how, man, why wasn't I in your video? He's a man you cuss too much. Like I can't I can't put you in there on my and I was like, ah, I like that guy. You know, he's he's protecting his brand and all the brands that support him.

Zakk Plocica: 33:39

Well, I think that's important, like when you look at it, because we've had comments too. There's there's families that this gets played in the living room, you know, on a Saturday. Yeah, you know, it's important to us that we keep it clean. And I think you see more of that within this industry too.

Cody Griffin: 33:51

I mean, most people are pretty um family-oriented, and some play to their personalities, which I don't think's a bad thing, you know. It's for their brand, right?

Zakk Plocica: 33:59

Yeah, absolutely. Um, but you know, we kind of I'm big on uh keeping this clean as well. You got William watching this. I do. I got my little guys, man. I don't want them seeing nothing dumb put up there. So yeah, it's funny, man. But what about you? Do you got anything lined up? I mean, as far as like hunting goes, are you just all you doing more target focus right now?

Cody Griffin: 34:17

Um right now I'm really getting ready for Vegas. Are you shooting Vegas? Yeah. I shot it last year. I got something, I smoked myself, is what I say. Like it's it's uh it was like a whole different ball. And dude, I wouldn't go in there like practice up or anything. It's not like JR. You're like, I'm gonna go do this, you just show up. Yeah. Man, it's great. I had so much fun. Like, I was disappointed in like myself and like how I've composed myself in the sense of I was completely composing online, but internally, like in my mind, I was like, what the heck am I doing? Like, why am I like punching the trigger or why am I not like doing all this stuff Joel Turner taught me, you know, why what why can't I talk myself through this shot? And uh now like the funniest thing ever. So I told Steve Anderson at Hoy, I was like, man, I think I'm gonna do a like a documentary of like me shooting my first 300. Like I've shot a 299 out here in practice when Dane, me and Dane one night were. I remember. Yeah, and Dane was like sitting in that red chair out there, and then uh I shot a 97 at a league night of here. I still got the target at the house, actually. But like I've never shot a 300, been close, just never, just never done it. And this year I'm gonna commit to that, like shooting like my 300. But Colby freaking from Ultraview is like document 30X. I was like, dude, take him ideas, bro. No, well, his is on a whole different level, but uh I'm gonna piggyback off that kind of in a sense of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what I'm gonna do. Like, I ain't at Colby's level yet, but Colby's an interesting character too. I like him, man. I think he's got a I think he is very uh He's well beyond his years.

Zakk Plocica: 35:43

He's very wise.

Cody Griffin: 35:44

He's very, very intelligent, very wise, and you know, the other thing, I think Colby's not afraid to fail and learn from it. Oh, gathering from it, and I'm not saying he's not a failure in any way, shape, or form, but he's got that like Steve Jobs mentality. He's he's very much like he's kind of like a little Elon Musk of the archery industry. And I I hope he takes that as a compliment if he hears this, but he's not afraid to fail, and he's not afraid to reinvent himself or the like like they're bringing all their that C and C machine and stuff they're doing, they're documenting, you know, they're they're made in America now, you know, a lot of their products are gonna get made in America. I'm like, man, good for you. You know, you're you're you're calling it out, you're learning new stuff right now, you're not afraid to show the failures that you're you're working on and stuff. I'm like, good for you, man. Like that's really cool to see.

Zakk Plocica: 36:24

Yeah, we had him on the podcast here. Just very intelligent, very well spoken, um, very motivated. 100%. Um he's got a good story, man. He does, he does. It's interesting. It's kind of the American Yeah, you know, the American dream. I mean, what he's got. He worked hard for everything he's got, dude.

Cody Griffin: 36:38

You can't say you can't say someone gave it to him.

Zakk Plocica: 36:39

Can't take it away from him whatsoever. Yeah, he's done a good job, he's built a really good brand. Um, you know, the my favorite thing to watch is all the best brands have the most hate and discontent around them. It's so funny, man. We get it, man. Oh, I know. It's funny. And I and even watching like a lot of um the influencer side of the social of the archery industry, right? Um guys who are just doing what they're passionate about and relaying the message to to people to listen, you know, and they do a good job job documenting it, documenting it. And um, there's not really a good re reason to dislike them, but people just do, man. Yeah, no, 100%.

Cody Griffin: 37:18

It's a lot of people that there's a lot of jealousy.

Zakk Plocica: 37:22

There's a lot in the archery industry, I think there's a lot of eating your own. Yeah, it's funny, man.

Cody Griffin: 37:27

It's wild. It is, but on the flip side of that too, a lot of those guys that are, you know, the quote unquote influencer or content creator in a sense, a lot of them like each other. Like a lot of them get along really, really good.

Zakk Plocica: 37:39

They like to collaborate and I would say most of them get it's them that get along well. It's it's uh it always goes back to them.

Cody Griffin: 37:47

They try to collaborate and they wanna they want to help people's channels grow and stuff like that.

Zakk Plocica: 37:51

Just grows everything. Yeah, everybody wins. Yep. I mean, you're not gonna get hurt yourself helping your buddy get ahead.

Cody Griffin: 37:57

You know, the the the kind of hate that you know I see most of, and I'm just saying this to call it out is that people are like, oh, he hasn't done anything, or this person hasn't done anything. And it's like, well, they're doing something right now, you know, and you know what, they're they're doing they're providing value. You know, they're they're validating a product or they're validating, you know, some information that they heard, and they're not just sitting there regurgitating it in front of a camera for you to digest that you've heard a thousand times, but they're out there proving it and they're they're proving the message. And you know, I I kind of like that. I like the I like the entertaining side and I like the educational side and I like the the part where people are you know trying to validate or credit or you know, they're not trying to reinvent the wheel in a sense, or that's the kind of that's the kind of stuff I like to consume.

Zakk Plocica: 38:39

Yeah, I I agree, and I don't think you're gonna there's not a lot of new. Yeah, right. There's not. But there's a new way to tell it, there's a new way to show it, there's a new way to talk about it. 100%. Um, and there's always gonna be the next generation coming up that's gonna relate to who's current within with with whatever they're doing, right? Whether they're podcasting, they're TikTok, whatever it is, you know, however they get their message across, it's constantly gonna be evolving. Um and I think there's some guys that do it really, really well. But you know, as far as you guys as like a brand, like you guys have a lot of people representing Easton, like a bajillion people, like probably I when I think like as far as like um people who use a specific product, I think Easton is like the number one, like it's the most saturated as far as like brand goes, in my opinion, within the archery, from what I see. Everybody has um an Easton arrow, right? Obviously, you guys got your competitor victory, but Easton has got a lot of people supporting the brand from the target side to the bow hunting side to the casual shooters in schools. I mean, like 4-H programs, Easton's kind of everywhere. Um, and I'm sure you guys have a lot of people that reach out to you that are like, what can I do?

Cody Griffin: 39:53

All the time. And you know, and I like it, and it's it's one of those things where uh sorry, there's a phone call. I don't know who that is, but um, it's one of those things. Oh man, I get so many of them. It's ridiculous. The uh you know, everyone wants to, you know, support your brand and and get some free stuff and you know, in exchange for that. And I try and tie them all back to a dealer. That's like the number one thing I try and do. Um, and the reason why is you're trying to look at how what kind of sales can they provide. You know, how can they promote that dealer and like what so I'm I manage it all the target staff at Easton and you know and I help manage, you know, or help handle some of the hunting staff and the media staff is what we call it. Um and help run social media, you know. There's a couple of folks that are in there behind the scenes with me as well on that. And a lot of it is tying them back to a dealer to show that they can move, you know, product or influence a sale in a sense, and not influencing like, hey, you need to go out and buy these. It's kind of like relaying our marketing agendas, our focuses, and you know, what we're working on. Like kind of we're all trying to get everybody on the boat together. And Gary and Tyson and Aaron, they're all the captain of that ship, and they're just driving that ship, you know, where it needs to be at. And um but there's a lot of people that reach out, but you gotta you can't have everybody either. That's the other thing is people and it's it's not easy telling someone no. But the thing of it is it's like, man, dude, you do great work, but like we're we're like full at the moment. You know, what I'd love to do is um, you know what, let's let's talk, let's call up a dealer and see if we can get you, you know, um, let's see if we can get them a credit or something on some product. But your goal is, you know, to promote Easton in a sense, but you know, really promote that dealer on like where you get your stuff at. Right. You know, that's a that's where I that's what I really like to do is you know, build up those shops and like let them know, like, hey, we're not just trying to go out there and steal everybody and you know, do this stuff. But there's a lot of good people that know how to work a camera, take good photos, and dude, we got terabytes, like good gracious, so many photos that we don't get to use and stuff like that. And so we get a little bit we can we can be picky and choosy is what I like to do.

Zakk Plocica: 41:58

Yeah, I I think it's good. I mean, you have good people representing what you guys do um from all levels, I think, too.

Cody Griffin: 42:05

The other thing is time management. How much time are you gonna spend contacting these guys and letting them know? And I mean, it's like that's the number one thing Gary tells me, you know, you bring that person on, yeah. How much time are you gonna have to spend with them though to to get them on with our marketing program and you know, let them know, putting orders in for them and stuff like that, requesting deliverables and building out that contract or that media agreement. Um, and and like at first I was like, oh, it's nothing, man. It's and now looking back, it's like, Jesus, like I got a freaking football team here I'm trying to manage like you gotta talk to every single one one-on-one and spend that yeah, that's a lot, man. You're trying to get everything you can out of it, you know, and and and and at the end of the day, too, is it worth their time if I'm not able to contact that person once or twice a month? You know, could they be a better, you know, creator or could they really grow the industry in another way, you know, and not just use your product, you know, just do it in a different fashion.

Zakk Plocica: 42:55

So yeah, I agree, man. That's a lot to to consider. And I think a lot of people don't consider that whenever they you know, they don't look at the big picture of things. It's yeah, you know, it's like, I do a good job on here, and it's like, well, where does it go from here?

Cody Griffin: 43:07

Yeah, a lot of it really comes down to like the target staff too, is man, I get requests every day, and it's not just domestic, it's international too. And you know, everyone, and man, I get it from parents, like in this, if any parents are listening to this, I would tell you the number one thing I would tell you if your kid's a good shooter, continue doing what they're doing. Don't sit there and try and pressure them into getting, you know, a couple of arrows, you know, or discount on arrows or anything like that. Go find a shop, support them, really blow that shop up, and then go crush whatever tournament circuit they're on, whether it's ASA, IBO, NFA, whatever it might be, USAT, and have them go win some big national tournaments in their age group and then continue on and then continue to keep growing. And when they become a young adult, you know, the best advice I ever got was from Steve. He says, if I want you to shoot Easton, I'll let you, I'll I'll come to you. You know, and that's from the target side. And then but then there's a couple of you know, diamonds in the rough that'll reach out and you look into me like, dang, you're a stud. Like, yeah, come on, let's go, yeah, let's go, let's let's work on something together. And um, but now from the creator side is uh I would tell people not to necessarily focus on don't grow a fake profile. Like if you grow a fake profile, I don't even want to work with you. What do you mean a fake profile? Find followers and bots and all that stuff and just organic. It's not organic. And the other thing is is like I'd rather have an account with a thousand followers who gets really good engagement with those thousand people and takes really good photos and videos that we can use and collaborate on together, than someone that's got like 50 or 60,000 followers within full of bots and you get 80 likes on the photo.

Zakk Plocica: 44:32

I do I have noticed some of those.

Cody Griffin: 44:33

Yeah, yeah, and you know, and I've the I've I kind of feel for and bad on the flip side because they're just looking for so much validity in their life, they're missing something somewhere, and you know is what it is, man.

Zakk Plocica: 44:43

Everyone wants to be in that industry at this point. It's and it's cutthroat. I mean, if that's your only source of income, good luck, my friend. I wouldn't let it be. No, dude. So I mean neither. Like I look at it for like it, it's it's part of what we do as a shop, right? Like it's critical. I think it's a piece of the puzzle, it's a piece of the puzzle, man. It's just part of it, and it's a very for us, it's a very small portion of it. Yep. Um, there's so many other things that go on, and um you know the the thing that is frustrating with like social media and creating that content is it's infinite, it never ends. There's no end in sight. Nope. You gotta continue to create and come up with ideas. And you know, I noticed some of our best work, it's the worst, the worst. Like you don't know how many people say that.

Cody Griffin: 45:32

People say that like some of the things that the thing that works the best is something I probably that I would have never put up. Yep. You know, the video that I think is gonna blow and suck is gonna be the one that's gonna go viral.

Zakk Plocica: 45:42

So it's important to me we represent our brands very well, right? Very high quality media, like it's the production value, it's wrapped up nice and tidy, and it represents our brands well. That's been important to me, right? I've always felt that way. That's why I've always hated third-party stuff like Amazon, eBay. I I hate it. Um, and uh because it doesn't represent a brand well. It's just a quick way to get product, and I just don't think it does a good job, right? Not everyone agrees with that. You know, that's why I've we've spent all of our time building this e-commerce platform and this ecosystem in order to represent in all capacities, right? From our product um layout on our website to our email marketing to you know, our social media presence to our YouTube videos. Like I've invested heavily in like camera equipment, like video and editing and stuff like that. Uh, and it's been important to me. Um and I've come to find out it's not necessarily important to everyone else. Uh a lot of people are self-shooting on can't on hand on phones and stuff, and they do very, very well. Um, but I'll live and die on the hill of uh quality is uh important to me.

Cody Griffin: 46:46

It just is it's the trimmings, man. You know, when it comes in, people eat that stuff. Yeah, you know, I can I didn't really look into it as much prior to when I got to Easton. And then when I really started deep diving, like what what's our what's our brand, you know, what's what's the kind of representation, yeah. The quality of content that's being out there, and we have these like objectives and goals every year, and everyone's different with these objectives, but it's a top five. You know, my top five is like delivering higher quality content. Yes, you know, that's one of the objectives, and we got it, we got this new guy at Easton man, his name's Nick. Um, he's like our video new video guy, photography editing guy. Bro, he's a beast. Like, oh my gosh, he's so sharp. And the thing of it is is he's not even from the archery industry. He's probably smart. Well, it we get a whole different lens from him, and it's like I get to marry my lens up with him now, and like, hey, like this is kind of where like this is the paradigm of where this shift happens, you know, with with what you're doing and where this industry is. And man, he's he's aggressive. And is he a full-time guy? Yeah, he's in-house. Yeah, yeah.

Zakk Plocica: 47:43

Dude, so um, I was just watching some some stuff, some clips on social media stuff, um, just information about it. Uh, and they're saying like the best investment a brand can have is you don't outsource anything anymore. The day of outsourcing is like dead. Yeah, from what you can outsource some things, right? The gig economy went by quick, is what I'd like to say. Oh, dude, like you have to have somebody that's in-house that believes in what you're doing and understands your brand and is willing to ride with you and create and build because an outsourced uh marketing agency doesn't give a crap. Dude, it's it's they've got how many other clients in different industries they don't fully understand your industry and your business and your goals.

Cody Griffin: 48:26

I agree. I agree to that to an extent. We we do have some thumb, some third-party stuff that we use, but the guy, these guys we've been using for decades, you know, and it's there's a relationship building.

Zakk Plocica: 48:35

100%. I outsource some things, right? Like web development. I have a web developer, stuff like that. But when it comes to marketing, I do all of it in-house.

Cody Griffin: 48:42

Um that's how we are.

Zakk Plocica: 48:43

We got a marketing director, VP of marketing, me promotions manager, in order to designer when there's a disconnect from marketing and then your um the ownership and all these different there's there's a disconnect. There's not a constant tie it all together. There's a disconnect. And it just there's there's always uh you miss, I feel like. And I feel like having it in-house, while it is an investment, I agree, um, it's a good investment, and you have to think long term with this. I mean, yeah, it's not a short-term thing. It's not, man. It's business is infinite, like it's it's constantly growing and evolving, and you gotta have a good team in your corner in order to um to move the needle forward, and it does not come fast. Completely agree. It's just a select. It's a marathon, man. It's an ultra marathon, it's an ultra. It is an ultra, dude. Yep. Um, what about bows this year, man? All the bows are here except for BoTec. So, you know, interesting.

Cody Griffin: 49:34

What are they gonna release?

Zakk Plocica: 49:36

ATA.

Cody Griffin: 49:36

Oh, okay.

Zakk Plocica: 49:37

You haven't heard? Uh huh. They're releasing at ATA, like the only one doing it. So, are you guys going to ATA this year?

Cody Griffin: 49:42

Yeah, we'll be at ATA, yeah.

Zakk Plocica: 49:43

So I'm I'm thinking about it. I'm supposed to be in Kentucky um the first through like the seventh, and I think ATA is in Indianapolis.

Cody Griffin: 49:49

Yeah, you're not far away.

Zakk Plocica: 49:50

I might just run up there for a couple days uh and link up and do some media stuff while we're there.

Cody Griffin: 49:56

There's still dealers that go there, man. It's in it the ones. This is gonna be the year. Like Wayne and Lisa go from the bow rack. Yeah, you know, like if if they're going, you know, I think some should some dealers should go. Some, it's probably I wouldn't say not worth their time, but you know, they've they might have to spend their resources a little bit differently. And, you know, but from the content perspective, I could see like last year, man, there were so many dealers that wanted to do videos with us and talk about the new product, the new 5-0 and the new FMJ Max. And I think they capitalized with it, with their social media and their marketing. Yep. It's like they they got it, you know, up first and close from the word from the source, you know, on what this messaging is.

Zakk Plocica: 50:29

So yeah, I think uh I'm I'm curious to see this year because I heard Hoyt and Matthews are not gonna be there.

Cody Griffin: 50:35

No, no. The boat companies, a lot of these boat companies haven't been. Um but man, you it is so expensive for a company to go to ATA too.

Zakk Plocica: 50:44

Well, yeah, I've heard some mixed things on it. Yeah, uh obviously booth is expensive. You gotta look at your return on investment, right?

Cody Griffin: 50:50

Well, you gotta think about the people that are flying in there, the hotels, the expense report, you know, at the end of it.

Zakk Plocica: 50:55

But that just goes to show, you know, ATA isn't the end all be all anymore and just how things evolve, which is kind of, you know, you look at it like history-wise, it's kind of like, oh, it's kind of a bummer, right?

Cody Griffin: 51:06

I mean Well, the you know, when when I was working here, man, we we went once. We went one time. And the reason why is because we got to fill the ATA order out like two weeks before ATA. Why would we go to ATA if this is the per show pricing?

Zakk Plocica: 51:17

Doesn't make sense. Yeah. So yeah, it it's it's interesting how things change. And I'm curious with this year, with the way they've shifted it, with allowing people to go in.

Cody Griffin: 51:26

That's where I think they should have done that a while ago. So it's gonna be cool to see it happen this year. I agree.

Zakk Plocica: 51:30

And there's a big shoot, right? There's a big event. Rushmore rumble. So there's a lot of things happening which could potentially shift the whole it could put some CPR on it, man, and give it some adrenaline.

Cody Griffin: 51:42

It might. I I I think I'm more leaning toward the positive. I think it's gonna be a better year than it was, you know, in the last couple years. And dude, last year, man, our booth was buzzing. Yeah, like we had so much traffic through our booth, and I mean it it was really it was cool to see. I mean, that that part. But now with the tournament and then the consumers being able to go in, it's gonna be it's we got some cool stuff up our sleeves for that.

Zakk Plocica: 52:05

Yeah, I'm I'm hoping it's uh kind of reignites it, um, and maybe it'll get some of the other bow manufacturers like, oh, we need to be back there because you know, the thing that's kind of shifted is you know, all your big brands are at Total Archery Challenge now. All right, that is the place to be. You are on the ground with the consumer, interacting with something they enjoy doing, and you get to talk, interact. There is not a better touch point in the industry at this point. Yep. And Total Archery is everywhere across the the entire US. Two, I mean, they got back-to-back events in PA this year.

Cody Griffin: 52:38

Sean did it right, man. Like if there's like that that business model that he used to build that thing, and like figuring out the missing link between the brand and the consumer and bringing them together in one accord, hats off to him. Yeah, no doubt, man.

Zakk Plocica: 52:55

They absolutely crushed it. So I'm I'm honestly looking forward to those. Yeah, I think it's gonna be a great time.

Cody Griffin: 53:01

Utah's got two of them, too. Yeah, that's what we need to do. Back to back weekends. They got one um, I want to say it's Snowbird, and they got one in Brian's Head, Brian Head down south.

Zakk Plocica: 53:11

Okay.

Cody Griffin: 53:11

So it's gonna be awesome.

Zakk Plocica: 53:12

Yep, I agree, man. I agree. What are you?

Cody Griffin: 53:16

What are you guys gonna go to tack this year? A couple tacks?

Zakk Plocica: 53:18

Yeah, I I plan on being to a couple. Um, I've already got some guys that I've kind of keyed up that are gonna run our booth for us. Yeah. Um, and I'm hoping to be able to make to all of them. It just depends.

Speaker 2: 53:28

Yeah.

Zakk Plocica: 53:28

Uh, because it's always, dude, it's you that's like the one place you can go and interact with the people that support your brands.

Cody Griffin: 53:33

Well, I'm sure it's good for your website. You know, I'm sure you see some. I I wonder if you could track that like with a certain business card that they use or something like that. I've got promo codes.

Zakk Plocica: 53:43

Um the big thing that we see is you know, it's it's interesting the impact you have on the industry because our YouTube channel does pretty well, it does well. Yours out. It does does okay. It's coming along, right? For the the few the uh the small amount of time we've been in the archery industry, I think we've grown pretty tremendously. Tremendously is a good way to do it uh within the short time that we've been involved in this, right? Um, and the the thing that is cool to see is the people um that recognize you and they want to talk to you. Yeah, and you know, it's always it's humbling and it's it's always it's funny that uh shows what you're doing is working, it does that the reach is there, right? And and people uh enjoy what we're doing. I don't think we've ever had anyone come up to us and say anything negative yet.

Speaker 2: 54:27

Yeah.

Zakk Plocica: 54:27

Um, but it it's cool and it's always fun to talk and interact with those people. And I think it's important um that they, you know, we're just normal people. Yeah. Just enjoy, enjoy the same things they do.

Cody Griffin: 54:38

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's I tell everybody anybody can do this.

Zakk Plocica: 54:42

Anybody can do it, man.

Cody Griffin: 54:43

Yeah, 100%. What's your uh what's your favorite part, you know, in the sense of do you did you shoot a lot of techs? Or was it mainly you were just there for the business aspect of it?

Zakk Plocica: 54:51

I go and I I try to shoot at least one course. Um, I always want to shoot more, yeah, you know, because it it is fun. It's fun to walk the course and kind of good content. It is good content, you know. That's well, that's life, right? Content, content, content. Trying to go insane, dude. Like I oh dude, if there's yeah, content, it's it's it's a blessing and a curse. Um, but yeah, I try to shoot at least one or two whenever I go because I I enjoy obviously shooting my bow. Yeah, um, and they're fun to go do, and the courses are always incredible. They do such a good job. Um, and it's interesting, it's fun, you know. You always link up with some random people and get to shoot with them.

Cody Griffin: 55:28

And I like that aspect of it. I do too, man. I think it's you can shoot with anybody. Archery is all walks of life, like it is the one thing, and there's other things too, I'm sure, but it's the one thing that I've done that anybody can get into, and they can do really, really well or they can really, really suck. Yeah, and it doesn't matter what you look like or anything, where you came from, yeah.

Zakk Plocica: 55:48

Dude, you know what I always enjoyed doing is shooting the practice course because there's always so many people there. Yep, and you can just interact and talk and watch. And the practice courses honestly are phenomenal too. Yeah. Like the the PA one up in seventh week. It's super sick, straight up a hill. I smoked that one little snow cloud. Yeah, they're still paying the cost of that.

Cody Griffin: 56:08

Arrow was fine. That was a 5-0. Was it? Yeah, dude. I they're tight. Bounced me back, like almost hit me. Back killed us. Back killed us, yeah. Rebounded back. Bent the point, but that's about it.

Zakk Plocica: 56:18

That was the loudest. It was somehow quiet whenever that thing hit, and it was the loudest noise you'd ever.

Cody Griffin: 56:23

I just shifted over. I thought I could clear it, you know, shooting at that bear at like 100 yards or whatever it was. Yep. Nope. Nah, it didn't work. What bow are you shooting this year? Man, I've got an AX32, the AX232. I like a 32-inch bow, man. I always have. I just I don't know why. I just shoot a 32-inch bow really, really good. And I mean, that's that's like in bend from like from a PSE, the levitates and stuff are 32 inches, to, you know, now this bow, this Hoy AX2, you know, 32 inches. And um, I'm curious. I do want to play around with that that new one they've got the AX3 and that. What is that 33 inch axle axle?

Zakk Plocica: 57:00

The aluminum? So no, they got a 29, yeah, 29 and a 30. Is it a 33? Dude, I should know this, you know. Me too. So obviously you're right beside him. I'm blaming you. So it's a 29 and a 33.

Cody Griffin: 57:11

Yeah, yeah.

Zakk Plocica: 57:12

So I like the aluminum bows from Hoyt quite a bit, uh, personally. I like that um, dude, as like the hunting I do, I always go back to a shorter bow, a 29 to 30 inch bow.

Cody Griffin: 57:25

Man, it's getting more popular out west too. Like I there's a shop close by, and you know, I was in there the other day. I was like, man, what's moving right now? He goes, Man's short bows are like in out west for some reason.

Zakk Plocica: 57:34

Arc 30, the Arc 30, the AX329, and then the Mach 30 from PSE, like those are heavy hitters.

Cody Griffin: 57:41

Yep. Um, the decree should honestly better those cams, how big they are now, they're kind of feeling like a 32-inch axle, you know, for most people.

Zakk Plocica: 57:50

Those are so forgiving now.

Cody Griffin: 57:51

Yeah, everyone's making good stuff. The freaking tuning system on the Hoyt this year.

Zakk Plocica: 57:55

What do you think about it?

Cody Griffin: 57:56

Oh, it's ingenious. I mean, it's genius. Like you used it and messed with it a little bit. I got to play around with Tysbow right when he got it, probably a week before launch or so. And um, we actually called Zach President Hoyt because we were like, how are we figuring this shit out?

Zakk Plocica: 58:09

Dude, they send him out and I'm I'm trying to read we can do videos on this stuff. I'm reading all the documents that they've got, and it seems like a pretty simple system.

Cody Griffin: 58:16

Yeah. No, it really was. Like we were just wanted to make sure we were doing it right. It was the big thing. And Ty had this paper and he goes, Oh, is there anyone we can call just to confirm? I was like, Yeah. I was like, dude, we'll get it, we'll get it straight. That's funny. But we didn't the thing that I like that Hoyt did was they didn't get rid of the shims, and I'm a big shim guy, and I know a lot of shops aren't because it takes time and stuff like that. But I I I don't mind moving a cam, you know, and keeping it locked in there. And then using the other thing is is I know that limb tip right there is not it's not moving side to side, and that's not a bad system. You know, I just haven't played around or been around that system long enough to, you know, make me comfortable, super comfortable with it in a sense. Um, and I know it's verified and you know, it's it's valid, very validated. But I like the fact that that thing is locked in, you know, with those uh in inside the axle, and then I'm just playing around with the tension on the the tip of the limb is what I really like. And I I shot a reckoning 38, like the target bow I had here, and it didn't move on me, the deadlock system. And I haven't played around with the Matthew system or anything like that, but it's a pretty sweet system. It looks like it's fast, it's very fast, is what I hear. And you know, the the elite system, I've never owned an elite. Um, never I don't we never sold them here either.

Zakk Plocica: 59:27

You know I still don't have them. I just they're I don't know, I haven't messed with them enough. Uh and there hasn't been there hasn't been enough of demand for us really with them. Which it's the same thing with Darton. Like we hear a lot about Darton, a lot of great things about it.

Cody Griffin: 59:38

They I think they had a really good system too. You know, the um the darn's got a lot of innovation, APA archery out in Canada, they got a lot of innovation. But I like the fact that it has indicators on there on the Hoyt, so it lets me know where it's at.

Zakk Plocica: 59:49

Dude, so the return to zero is easy.

Cody Griffin: 59:52

Yes, like they really thought that thing through, man, and the thing that they got nagged on so hard last year, you know, you still gotta swim cams and everything. And like from a shop perspective, time is money. Like, I totally understand that. But now that they delivered on this, and now people are like, oh, the carbon's not the riser's not any different. Like, bruh, that carbon riser is proven. That thing, there's nothing more tortured on the planet than a Hoit bow.

Zakk Plocica: 1:00:15

There's yeah, there's no there there. When it comes to durability, I ran over one. Forget that. We ran one over. Like, and it's still shot. Shot zero. Yeah. Like when when if you like look at three brands, like as far as like the bow and accessory goes, when it comes to like durability, there's Matthews PSC, dude. No, no, no. Like when we talk about the number one durability bow with Hoyt. For sure. We talk about a site, Spot Hog, and an Aero Rest, Hamski. Yeah. Like, if you want the most durable system out there, that is it. Like, you will, there's nothing that outperforms those. Bomb proof. They are invincible, like a damn panzer tank, buddy. Dude, Hamski, yeah, their new R7 rest. I haven't played with Rest. I haven't either. I'm waiting for R.

Cody Griffin: 1:00:57

I'll tell you what I got to play with though that I've been very impressed with. And I wish I would have given it a little bit more time here at the shop. Freaking AAE. That prophecy rest.

Zakk Plocica: 1:01:05

It's still super talk, but I think, dude, um Cooper. Yeah, Cooper from French. I think he's still run. I think that's the way he ran. He does dude, he tortunes everything. And he's way beyond it.

Cody Griffin: 1:01:16

It's a little bit more technical, I think. That rest and in the regards of the tuning stuff that you can do.

Zakk Plocica: 1:01:21

The mount how you can take it on and off. That's what I like about it.

Cody Griffin: 1:01:24

It's pretty legit. I'm like, man, this is like they they make a really good rest. QAD, I've got one of their um, I've got an AE and a QAD target rest. I've got a Hamski target rest, too. I played her. That's the cool thing about them. Like those three, I think, are the brand leaders in like the rest category.

Zakk Plocica: 1:01:38

Oh, yeah, no doubt.

Cody Griffin: 1:01:39

But yeah, the freaking like going back to the Hoyt, like I'm very I was very impressed. And Matthews, with what they came out with, they got a really good looking color. That that Kodiak.

Zakk Plocica: 1:01:48

Clean looking.

Cody Griffin: 1:01:49

I like it. It's tough. I'll tell you that shall color from Hoyt. So um one of the engineers. What color? What's it called? Not shall. It's um Sandstorm.

Zakk Plocica: 1:01:57

Sandstorm. Dude, Sandstorm is growing on me because I normally don't like a light color, but that color is sharp. Dude, a couple weeks ago, one of the engineers was shooting that color.

Cody Griffin: 1:02:05

Brandon, I hadn't seen it before. Outside. So we have a hundred yard range out back at East. And we have a 3D side, and then we have like a block target style from 20 to 100 yards. And one of the engineers was shooting it like against a bush, like the back drop of a bush. I didn't know what he was doing. Like I could, I saw him and I was like, I know he's shooting a bow, but what the heck? Like, I can't see the bow. I can't make out anything on it. And it was that color. And I was like, bro, I was like, I should have taken a picture of you. Because you couldn't make out that with my naked eye from 50, 60 yards away from him, I could not see what he was holding. Like it was insane. But yeah, I mean, but yeah, the Matthews man, they're making they've got a lot of crazy advancements too with their limb systems and stuff like that.

Zakk Plocica: 1:02:44

And you know where I think Matthews really shines. I mean, one, they tell an incredible story, right? Their marketing is incredible. They obviously have a good product to back it.

Speaker 2: 1:02:52

Yes.

Zakk Plocica: 1:02:53

Um, and they have a good system. Like their bow is a entire, like, it's its own system. I agree. All the accessories, how they integrate.

Cody Griffin: 1:03:01

You're seeing a lot of companies do that.

Zakk Plocica: 1:03:03

Everybody's starting to. I mean, even I look at even Prime with their quivers and stuff that they've got and their their um their new um uh kickstand system.

Cody Griffin: 1:03:14

Yeah, yeah, that was pretty innovative. They did. That was a nice, nice little extra.

Zakk Plocica: 1:03:17

I mean, it's cool, it works well. Um, but yeah, I mean, there's a lot of companies that are trying to kind of take note. You know what it kind of bums me out though is Botech was the leader when it comes to like tuning. And they they missed, I think they missed the mark on like the marketing side. They did such a good job with their system.

Cody Griffin: 1:03:35

And I think that's when they came out that they were in a transition of ownership as well. Makes sense, you know. Like, uh, I mean, dude, one of the greatest archers on the planet shoots for on still Paige Pierce, you know, and she wins. Like, it's they've got a really good tuning system on there. Um that they were the first ones, I think, to like it it caught my eyes. I mean, it caught my eyes and not the order of one.

Zakk Plocica: 1:03:54

As a shop, like that made a setup and sale so much quicker. And that's what we see everything is gone shifted to, right? When you look at all the bows, like that's where all the technology is being kind of focused, yeah, is the tuning side.

Cody Griffin: 1:04:08

Um, because you know we kind of started that accessory side with like their inline stuff, like the Picatinny site. Oh, yeah. When it came out, and then you know, you started seeing like Matthews kind of brought like, and I know all these companies, man, they were all working on this stuff years ago. And it's like Matthews brought up bridge, like, oh, that's really cool, like dovetail stuff. I can put it in there and use a regular site if I want to, a direct mount, same thing like pick rail or you know, direct mount with Hoy. And then you see the pick mount, you know, with all these other companies. And then Botec kind of came out with their own thing, you know, as well.

Zakk Plocica: 1:04:37

Yeah, I don't know if they're carrying that over this year. They changed it over. They the center mass went from um I think inside the risers or outside the riser. Now it's on the far inside. Um yeah. You know, I I don't know if they're gonna carry it over. Their ascend has the Picatini integrated system on it.

Cody Griffin: 1:04:54

I gotcha.

Zakk Plocica: 1:04:55

Um, so we'll see what happens this year. I'm very interested. Uh I I I I question the release at ATA if it's good or bad. I don't know.

Cody Griffin: 1:05:03

They did that years ago. So, like when I was following ATA really, really closely, like when I was in high school and middle school and stuff, they would drop a bow like at ATA, and it was this big unveiling, man. It was like they were showing off the new like hot toy, and they had the black drape over it or red drape, whatever it might be. They rip it off, and you'd you would see photos and hundreds of people is what it looked like around the their booth, and they were all just you know, hand clapping it up. It's cool, man. I mean they build a buzz around it, man. Yeah, they build a buzz.

Zakk Plocica: 1:05:32

Yeah, I'm curious to see what the um response is this year.

Cody Griffin: 1:05:35

What do you think Bo's gonna what's the what do you think's gonna be the hottest new thing out right now? As far as like Bo's what thinks what do you think is gonna be the market mover? You could say is there anything that's gonna be like the dark horse, like oh man, I didn't see this selling more than you know this one, or is this model like that? PSC's got a killer too. That's it.

Zakk Plocica: 1:05:55

The Sicario has been kind of the talk. I mean, it was they was obviously released earlier than the other brands, right? So it's had a massive amount of um buzz around it. There's been a lot of talk. We've sold a ton of them. Really? Uh yeah, it's honestly surprising because it's a um it's a short bow. I mean, it's a short brace height, right? Yeah, and it's a speed bow. Um, but it's PSE does a really good job when it comes to performance and accuracy, I think. A bow that just is pretty easy to shoot. Um, the decree what for outdoor life was the 2025 most accurate platform out of all bows tested at 50 yards. The decree outperformed every other bow, every ATA length, every brace height. It's a 31 and a half inch platform. That's crazy. Unreal, right? So there's something to be said about the full draw stability system and the way PSE manufactures their bows.

Cody Griffin: 1:06:50

What's wild is that dynamic brace height, you know, that term that's now being and it's I think there is something there. Like after really watching all these videos of these people like testing these bows, and I mean, even the stuff that you guys are putting up on how like, man, this does not feel like a five-inch brace height bow. Right. I've owned a five-inch brace height bow back in the day from PSE called an X-Force, and I it could have been a boat anchor for me. Like that's that's how long I I hated that bow. Yeah. But um, but now, you know, you're seeing these shorter brace height bows, and people are like, Man, I can't torque this thing like at full draw. And it's like, it's not a rough shooting rig.

Zakk Plocica: 1:07:21

Yeah, and and let's let's be clear, it's not going to be as forgiving as a bow, like a Mach 33, right? That's the comparison. Mach 33 Sicario, where it's at, and it's like there's there's pros and cons to each of them. Sicario is the speeds are ridiculous. Yeah, JR got it to shoot 360 feet per second at 30 inches with a 350 grain arrow. Oh my gosh. IBO is 357. So outperformed IBO, right? That's good on them. Um, super short brace height, some of the the drawbacks potentially, van configurations, yeah, arrow rest setups, how long that matters. How long, yeah, how much space you've got in between there. Um, but you look at it, the 33 is obviously going to be a more forgiving platform. The static brace height is greater, and then the dynamic brace height is even greater. So we you can't really compare them equally. But what you can look at the scicario as like when we talk about speed goes, they're speed bows like you talked about, typically unforgiving, very aggressive, very difficult to shoot. Yeah, this has changed the game when it comes to speed bows, the way they've manufactured and designed this. I'll tell you straight up like the cam on that system, the FDS cam on all the bows is better. Yeah, but on the Sicario, I shot it between the RX 10 Ultra and the Sicario. The FTS cam is substantially smoother versus the RX 10 Ultra. Really? It which is mind-boggling to me. I did not think it would be. And I kept shooting them side by side. And the RX10 Ultra is a great bow. I'm not taking anything from it. But when we look at draw cycle and speed and performance, that Sicario just it pounds. And we have we've sold a ton of them already. Yeah, and my concern was distance. How are people gonna be able to shoot them at distance? How is it gonna perform when you step out past 50 yards? And everyone we've talked to so far is saying they are if they hold good, they're gonna shoot good. Dude, they hold incredibly well and can't mess with it.

Cody Griffin: 1:09:14

I know they did play around. Um, they got a big boost last year, I think, when they went to their new gen system, cam system, I can't remember what it's called. The Gen 4, exactly. It was like nine at 29 inches, they gained 19 feet a second. And I was like, you know, it's just really cool to see these companies being able to prove what they're doing is working. Yes. And I dude, I'll be honest with you, man, I'll sacrifice a little bit of roughness in a draw cycle. If I picked up 19 feet a second from the last year's compared bow at the same draw link, that is insane. Like that is a big move. And you're seeing it, I mean, PSC's done a great job with it. Like the Levitate's one of the fastest bows I've ever shot.

Zakk Plocica: 1:09:50

That bow will always be a talking point.

Cody Griffin: 1:09:51

It will 100%. I still have both of mine, and they're hanging on a wall right now, and like they they and they really they shoot really, really good. And the closest thing I've found that shoots like that bow is this AX-32. Like, and it's just the same specs as all. Like it's it just comes down.

Zakk Plocica: 1:10:08

I'm sure the dynamic brace height might be a little bit different, but I'm Hoyt is known for having a good um dynamic brace height that actually increases that full draw from what I when I talk to a couple different people. Um, Matthews, they say, actually decreases, yeah.

Cody Griffin: 1:10:23

And which is interesting. Well, man, I they've got a really good shoot. Like, here's the other thing. When you look at from the target perspective, like they make a bow that aims really, really well. And I manage a lot of those guys on that target staff, Jimmy and Stefan. I shooting ready with them the last two years. That freaking title that they're pointing, it the bar, their stabilizer does not move. When it is locked on the target, it is something crazy to see. And like I can hold a bow pretty dang steady from time to time, but they're holding that bow a little bit steadier than a lot steadier than me.

Zakk Plocica: 1:10:52

It looks wild how some of these bows, like the engineering that goes into them and just how well they perform.

Cody Griffin: 1:10:57

Yeah, man. I mean, there a lot of people are doing a lot of companies are doing a lot of good things.

Zakk Plocica: 1:11:02

Dude, you can't go wrong with any of the manufacturers at this point, realistically. Not at all. Like, what do you like? Which one looks good? Yep, you know, what are your goals with it? Like, as far as like, are you a bow hunter? Are you building a hybrid bow? Kind of to determine your budget, and that's going to determine ATA lengths, and then you know, from there the sky's limit. What do you want to shoot? Yep, nope, 100%.

Cody Griffin: 1:11:22

I mean, it's yeah, the the big three is what I call it. You know, they're they're definitely they're pushing each other.

Zakk Plocica: 1:11:29

Look at the mid-price point bows now.

Cody Griffin: 1:11:31

Man, bangers. They were flagships six, seven years ago. I mean, the the all of them are good. The Send from Hoyt, a Botec, like the Botec there, crushing it. Crazy good shooting bows. Now the new Endure, like they put a flagship cam on that thing, a pick side on there.

Zakk Plocica: 1:11:47

The Enduro, yeah, from Hoyt. Dude, that, and then I'll tell you who's really does a good job on the mid-price point is bear bows.

Cody Griffin: 1:11:54

I've never got to play. I had a bear bow years ago. It was actually a mid-price point bow. That was like one of my first like big purchase bows. I was like 12 or 13. And bro, I can't tell you how many Robin Hoods I had with that bow. Like, I uh like not we're not talking 20 yards, we're talking like 40, 50 yard shots, you know, out of this thing.

Zakk Plocica: 1:12:11

They shoot good, they perform very well, they're quiet, and the price point on them is pretty untouchable. So, like when you got guy like new people that are really unsure about what they're getting into, that category is pretty broad now. Yeah, used to be.

Cody Griffin: 1:12:23

And that's their focus, I think. You know, a lot of companies don't put a bunch of intentional focus, you know, on their price point. They make a good price point bow, but bear, I think, really like that's their market. I know that's their market. Yeah, they do.

Zakk Plocica: 1:12:35

But these other bows, man, really top contenders. You look at the technology with the ascend from the bow tech, yeah. Fantastic.

Cody Griffin: 1:12:40

It's like that tuning system on it, doesn't it? Yeah, the deadlock light.

Zakk Plocica: 1:12:43

Yeah, the deadlock, yeah. Yep. And then um the Hoyt, they've got the HBX cam on it where you can shim it. You can shim it? Uh, does it have quarter-inch draw length adjustments on it?

Cody Griffin: 1:12:53

Or it might have half inch, probably. I think it's half inch. That's what I like about their module system on there. It's not a great range anymore, you know, which I don't mind. You're optimizing that mod for that consumer, that performance at that draw length. But the quarter-inch man, I I've always been like a 27, you know, a float between a 27 and 27 and a half. Right. Now I get to play at 27 and a quarter. Yep. And it's like, oh, you're in this. It's like a glove.

Zakk Plocica: 1:13:15

Yeah, fits good. No, I'm with you. Um, I always like to err on the side of like a little bit short versus.

Cody Griffin: 1:13:20

Yeah, with clothing and stuff, totally get it.

Zakk Plocica: 1:13:22

Yeah, you know, I mean, because I always every time I take a shot, it's never like how I plan it to be. It never happens that way. Yeah, it's always in an awkward position where I'm contorted in a weird way. Yep. Um, so I usually yeah, I like to run it. I it's better to be shorter, I feel like, than it is to be longer. Dude, I agree wholeheartedly on that one. I think it's yeah, people make a mistake of trying to game it, game their their draw length, and then yeah, it's a bad luck.

Cody Griffin: 1:13:47

Are you gonna shoot? So you're shooting a Sicario this year? No. No. What are you gonna shoot?

Zakk Plocica: 1:13:51

Dude, I don't know. Uh-huh I I just build a decree. That's what I'm taking to Texas and Kentucky. Okay. Um, that aluminum bow. So my Mach 30 is still my favorite bow that I've shoot. I've got a 33, I've shot all the bows, and I always go back to my Mach 30 that's three years old, that's got three-year-old strings on it. And it just shoots so good. I just shoot it really well.

Cody Griffin: 1:14:10

Dude, you should put some of those new System X strings on the city.

Zakk Plocica: 1:14:12

I got System X on my Mach 33.

Cody Griffin: 1:14:14

Bro, I'm gonna do it. Like, I've I've Eric Griggs is awesome. He's the man, dude. Like, I I I love what he does for the industry. He does not play, he's a big supporter of the dealer. Yep. You know, he drives a lot of traffic there. And um, and for people that you know don't have a local bow shop, you know, he goes, we do have this service online. It is a little bit more, but you know, you're gonna get way more service out of the dealer. He he call he he calls it out, he calls black from white in that regard, as far as information goes. Um, but the uh the system X strings I have on my concept and my X32 have not moved, man. No, they have not moved in eight months. I've had them on my bow for eight months.

Zakk Plocica: 1:14:50

So so you're we're at the same we're at the same point then, because that's about what I've had for my Mach 33, and they are consistent.

Cody Griffin: 1:14:56

I've got them marked, I've got them, the cams marked on them, and they have not moved an inch, they've not moved a millimeter, dude, when it comes to the timing of it. Yep. And that you want to talk about a a piece of equipment that holds everything together and makes the product really what it is, it's a good set of strings. Like it's I mean, and I've got some I got another Concept X and it's got Hoit strings on it right now. And Hoit, I'm gonna tell you what, man, Hoit don't slouch around making no string either. Like theirs is machine driven and well, I mean look at that.

Zakk Plocica: 1:15:25

Used to be a big weak point for a lot of these bow manufacturers, right? And I think they've realized that a lot of them, all the strings have I've seen have drastically improved. It can deteriorate a product over time, exactly. And when somebody comes in and buys a $1,500 bow, yeah, they're like, you mean I gotta put a $150 set of aftermarket strings on it to get it to really perform like it should.

Cody Griffin: 1:15:44

Get all of that out of it. Yeah.

Zakk Plocica: 1:15:45

Yeah. And I think, you know, things have have pretty steadily improved. Yeah, you know, Matthews came out with their match strings. Dude, I'm still got the same, I tell everybody you need to swap strings every other year at least. Yeah. I'm still running three-year-old strings on this Mach 30, and it's like I put it on the drawboard and time it and it's truthfully.

Cody Griffin: 1:16:02

I I'll tell you what I like to do is I put those system X strings on there. And if anything were to happen, like, dude, I came in here one year and freaking had the packing tape cut my bowstring in half just about. And it's like, oh, I have my my stock set on here that you know I've shot and I've put, you know, it's been through the paces, you know. But that's why I really like having a secondhand set of strings or but yeah, just go ahead and get it, man. It's 150 bucks. You're spending 1500 already on a bow. What's another 10%, you know, at the end of the day to have some peace and comfort, you know, in in your pack. Yep, have a backup set. Yep, it's probably two bows. Dude, yeah, man. Like I've got I've I'm a hundred percent, and this I don't, you know, probably not everybody should have a backup bow. If you're hunting here in Eastern North Carolina, you know, and you got one, you got a really good bow, good. Yeah, get a set of backup strings, whatever it might be. But the guys that are going out there and spending, you know, thousands of dollars on a tag or going on another hunt, bro, you better. Like crazy not to. You are, yeah, and that guide might have another bow for you. But I'm gonna tell you what, that's like you running with a shoe that's five times bigger or smaller or whatnot. You know, it's it's just not gonna be built for you, man.

Zakk Plocica: 1:17:04

That's a good way to put it. Yep. Yeah, it is. Oh, that's funny. That's it, man. Well, dude, we need to wrap this thing up, man. As always, I appreciate you, Cody. As far as Easton goes, is there anything else new that we need to be on the lookout for?

Cody Griffin: 1:17:18

We just made that new target shaft. Um, I'm really excited about it. I shoot a lot of target archery, of course, but I got to play with them early. The new X10 3.2 parallel pro. Yeah. It's that, you know what's gonna be wild? We're gonna see that arrow attack without a shadow of it.

Zakk Plocica: 1:17:33

Yes, I've already had people ask me about dude. I'm having people ask about building X10 parallel pros as bow hunters, which to me is crazy. That is such an expensive build. That's the pinnacle of what's in the industry right now.

Cody Griffin: 1:17:47

Yeah, it is. I mean, no doubt. There is not an arrow that has better tolerance, spine around shaft consistency, spine from arrow to arrow, weight tolerance, using the synergies of aluminum and carbon together. I mean, there's and that's not to disprint, that's not to hit on another company by any means. That's just the that's just the truth. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that system's been over the AC arrows started in like the 80s, man. Like you're talking 40, nearly 40 some odd years of merging aluminum and carbon together to create a unique product.

Zakk Plocica: 1:18:20

Yeah, dude. I mean, they look clean. It's just, I look at it from like a cost-wise, you know, as like a bow hunter. Like, and I'm if I'm let's say I buy a half dozen or I buy a dozen of these things, man, then I've got to buy all my components and build them out. Whoo, that's a big investment.

Cody Griffin: 1:18:35

If I'm not competing in tournaments looking to win some money, I that arrow's gonna be the one that's gonna be shot in the LA summer games in 28. That's gonna be, you know, and it can, you know, there's gonna be some recurvers that are gonna pick it up. It's not really pigeonholed into one, you know, discipline of archery in the sense of compound recurve bare bow deal. Um, it there's so many people that are on fire for that product right now. The product launch was insane.

Zakk Plocica: 1:19:00

Oh, I bet, dude.

Cody Griffin: 1:19:00

It was it had more views than the 5-0. Really? On our social media places. Really?

Zakk Plocica: 1:19:04

Yep. That's surprising to me because it's a worldwide product.

Cody Griffin: 1:19:07

That's the thing. Uh okay. Internationally domestic.

Zakk Plocica: 1:19:10

Is international bigger for you guys as far as target goes?

Cody Griffin: 1:19:13

Uh I would say uh yeah, I would say so. I could say, I think pretty confidently I could say so, especially with X10s, like that. It's man, it's won every metal since '96, you know, just the X10 itself. I mean, but it's it's just an on-fire product. And then, you know, now we've made a parallel shaft that's really honestly, it's just so much easier to tune. A lot of people I feel like they have to throw voodoo on like a barreled or taper shaft, so the middle section's a little bit bigger, right? And it works skinnier towards the end or towards one end, like a like the pro tour. We actually discontinued that product. Um, and that was really that was strictly meant for compound, you know. That was built for that. But now this new arrow, it's like, oh, people are like, oh, I can shoot this out of my recurve, go down two spine sizes compared to an X10. You know, get maybe a shaft that's maybe a touch lighter, you know, it's surely gonna be beneficial for those shooters that are gonna be shooting weaker spined X10s. But yeah, the new 3.2, I mean it's I like it because it's a little bit heavier than the Pro Tour that we came out with, so it's not gonna move in the wind as much. Yeah, okay.

Zakk Plocica: 1:20:12

That makes sense. Okay. 3.2 millimeter.

Cody Griffin: 1:20:15

Yeah, 3.2 internal millimeter shaft. Interesting. So as far as components go, there's no inserts. This is not a hunting shaft by any means. Like it is strictly like four, you know, shooting competitively, you know, target archery, lawn archeries, what we'll call it, 50-meter archery, 70-meter archery on the recurve side. And you'll see it at some indoor events, I think, this year. Vegas kind of threw everybody for a loop.

Zakk Plocica: 1:20:36

Even with that small diameter?

Cody Griffin: 1:20:38

Last year they had inside outs. So you had to go inside out of the X-ring. Like the final like four or five shooters had to go inside out. They couldn't have it touching the line of the X. So imagine trying to shove a 27 in that thing. That's what Bodhi ended up doing, you know. But he probably could have done a little bit quicker with an X10, you know. Wow. Yeah, we just had Matias do that. Like he he's stud. Gosh. Like, man, there's so many good archers out there, and there's so many threats. And Matias, if you are a target archer, you're a pro and you count him out, you're an idiot. Yeah, you are a full-blown idiot. I mean, the dude, any discipline, he will go and murder. I mean, straight up murder. Like, he's nasty.

Zakk Plocica: 1:21:21

Yeah, he's had a pretty good year. Yeah, yeah, he's absolutely crushed it. He's young, man.

Cody Griffin: 1:21:26

Like, and uh, have you ever talked to him? I haven't. I gotta introduce you. Uh he'd be a good guest for you guys to have up here. Man, he's he's a very well-spoken kid, um, and he knows what he's doing, but he thinks so differently outside the box. Like, I was just listening to him um talk about like, man, I'm trying to conserve how much energy I'm putting into my shot and into the bow, you know, because I want to be durable in the sense and last that whole tournament and not start out crazy hot. And I'm not saying he has a history of that, like phasing out or fizzling out, but he's seeing like, man, like if I if the rounds go longer, like I'm more liable as a human being to like make a mistake. Right. So he's thinking out all these different details and all these other things. And dude, he's he's told me some stuff I'm not gonna say on air, like some of the scores he's put up. He him and like Mikey Slosher, Jimmy and Stefan, a couple others, Bodie, you know, Nico Gerard, those guys are they're about to be in their prime and really put up some stuff that doesn't make sense. They're gonna put up scores that don't make sense that people probably won't beat for decades to come.

Zakk Plocica: 1:22:30

Yeah, I believe it, man. I mean, now's the time. I mean, there's so much information and there's so many I mean, and that's the difference between them, the the professional level athlete, right? The way they approach it, the way they think about things, um just very in tune with it uh and take it to a whole nother level. Their mental games was probably what impresses me because I think that's the difference between your guys that just absolutely are continue to excel is they're able to uh their mental bandwidth and able to, you know, push out all the noise, right? All the noise, they're able to avoid it uh and focus on the task at hand or what the priorities are and a hundred with a hundred percent focus.

Cody Griffin: 1:23:11

Yeah, it makes me wonder what they would do in business.

Zakk Plocica: 1:23:13

Oh, yeah, me too.

Cody Griffin: 1:23:14

You know, it's like because they're definitely uh locked in, buddy. Yes, that's the best way to put it.

Zakk Plocica: 1:23:19

Locked in. So lots of good stuff from Easton. Um yeah, I mean, Easton is our our biggest. We appreciate that. Yeah, it is we uh I think we over doubled what we did in the last year. That is crazy, or maybe a hundred percent. Jeez Louise, it blew up this year, man.

Cody Griffin: 1:23:37

Was it the five O's that really brought the brand traction?

Zakk Plocica: 1:23:40

Man, I would it's hard to say. It's a combination of because we stock all all the the You gotta have variety, you do. Um, and I looked at the amount of 6.5 bow hunters and just blows my mind. Yeah, oh my gosh, dude. I was like, we're booking this amount of stuff this year. All right, boys. Hold on, hold on. And this is we're only booking 75% of what we sold, so and we're expecting an X amount of growth this year. So yeah, it's a lot, man. But uh, I mean, it's hard to deny the service uh and the backing that Easton provides the dealers too. I mean, anytime I call you with an issue or a question or or whatnot, there's always um, you know, there there's really no no question. It's like, hey, you know, yeah, we'll we'll we'll take care of the customer, we'll take care of you. Um, or you know, this is how you remedy that problem. So it's you know, it's it's it's easy to stock that amount of stuff because we have that much. That's it, dude. The trust with the relationship that we have with you guys is phenomenal. So it's good, man.

Cody Griffin: 1:24:36

It's good, man. Dude, you guys are crushing. You guys, I've I've as fast as you guys are growing, it should be there should be a book written on it.

Zakk Plocica: 1:24:46

It's interesting, man. I look at it and I'm like, yo, this is painfully slow. And then I look back and I'm like, oh god. There's still growth and growing pains, though, man. No, constantly, dude. There's a constant battle, man. If it's not one thing, it's another. Yep. Always in the trenches, it seems like. Nope. I I know what you mean, man. Yeah, you you'd know better than anybody. But that's it, man. So, Cody, again, I think you make I appreciate you coming by and you know, the day after Thanksgiving, hanging out in the shop, doing a little bit of podcasting. For sure. Uh, lots of good information, as always. Uh, and you know, anybody's got questions for you, they can always call Easton. Yeah, call a call.

Cody Griffin: 1:25:22

Man, I love, I love taking the calls. And honestly, man, it's you know, I there was other brands that I called and stuff like that, but it's now it in this little bit of a different role. It's like, man, I I have there's an opportunity for me to you to make a huge impact for this brand and with our dealers and providing that trust and like, hey, this is ri this is how this thing's gonna go down.

Zakk Plocica: 1:25:40

Yeah, Easton's got some good dudes on board, man. You being one of a man, very passionate, very well versed, um, and just obviously a good you're an influencer, dude. Oh, good. You're part of it, you're part of it. I'm trying to be a powerlifting influencer.

Cody Griffin: 1:25:54

I'm good enough to be an archery influencer.

Zakk Plocica: 1:25:57

SBD, if you hear me, I need some new knee sleeves. Hook it up, man. Elbow sleeves and some wraps. Get it going. I do need elbow sleeves. Oh my gosh. Elbows. I hope so jacked up right now. Squatting's not really in the cards for me. I gotcha. But yeah, but again, Cody, I appreciate you, man. So as always, drop some comments, give us some feedback, guys. Let us know.

Cody Griffin: 1:26:15

I mean, I'll try and get on and answer the questions too. So you put it up there, put up a question. If you got any product questions or anything like that, any setup questions, I'll do my best to get up there and respond from either my personal page or the Easton page and um, you know, help them out. And then if you guys ever have a product question, you know, call Zach up and Zach can relay it to me if he doesn't have an answer and get you squared away.

Zakk Plocica: 1:26:33

There you go. You can find Cody on Instagram too. What is it?

Cody Griffin: 1:26:36

I got two pages. So the my influencer page. Your influencer page is the page we want. Yeah, man. It's called Beards, Bows, and Barbells. Fitting. Yep. Yep, very fitting. And then uh Cody Griffin underscore. That's kind of like my man, like my personal page and you know, more family stuff oriented on there. So and then Easton Archery.

Zakk Plocica: 1:26:52

So drop some comments on here. We'll make sure Easton, I'll hold Cody to the fire, make sure he answers any questions you guys have. So that's it, guys. Thanks for lip listening. That's another episode of the Archery project. See you guys in the next and up and coming episodes. Appreciate it, guys.