2025 Arrow Review: What’s Actually Worth Your Money

New arrows landed hard this year, but not all “premium” builds delivered. We dig into why some custom builders Chinese shafts struggled with spine and straightness, where penetration fell apart even at high poundage, and how a simpler approach turned our bows quieter, our tuning faster, and our blood trails undeniable. From Easton’s 5.0 and FMJ Max to Victory’s HLR, VLR, and the new Rival/Rival X class, we break down real differences in GPI, durability, components, and where each shines for hunting, TAC, and 3D.

We share candid shop-floor stories and field results: the hidden risks of hot-melt overheating, why underspined arrows crumble under heavy FOC, and how stainless HIT inserts and short stainless half-outs tighten spin and survive impacts. You’ll hear why lighted nocks can be a liability if you don’t inspect and retire them early, and how a clean build—cut, square, dry-fit, spin, then glue—beats chasing exotic parts. Expect practical numbers, clear use-cases, and the tradeoffs between speed, noise, and forgiveness that really matter when you screw on a broadhead.

If you’re choosing between FMJ Max for quiet, forgiving hunting shots or chasing distance with VLR and Rival for TAC, this conversation gives you a blueprint. We also touch the target side with Easton’s 3.2 and why competition between Easton, Victory, and returning players like Carbon Express helps everyone. Our bottom line: keep it simple, pick a vetted shaft, tune the bow to the arrow, and shoot more. Subscribe, share with a buddy who’s rebuilding for 2025, and drop your arrow recipe and reasoning—we want to hear what you’re running and why.

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Transcript

Welcome And 2025 Arrow Landscape

Zakk Plocica 0:00

All right, JR back in the house. 2025 was a good year for arrows. I was there was a lot of new arrows that dropped this year from East End Victory are the main two uh that I would say that we've seen uh a really good response with and multiple arrows, not just one arrow, but there's been quite a few. So that's what we're covering today on the Archery Project. So welcome back, everybody. I am your host, Zach Lasika, and I got Mr. J.R. Gettler back in the hot seat. And um dude, I think all the arrows that came out this year, that when we're talking the hunting line specifically, I mean there's a couple target arrows I think we'll we'll talk about that's more in your wheelhouse. Uh, but there were some bangers, I think. But before we get into that, there's one thing that I've seen a big uptick in, and that is custom arrow builders.

JR Gettler 0:46

There has been.

Zakk Plocica 0:47

There's there's a ton of custom arrow builders out there, right? I've seen more and more of them. And um a lot of them are doing the same thing, they're getting those Chinese blanks and they're building arrows out for people, and the profit margin from what I've seen is insane. Yeah. Um but we've also had a bunch come through the shop, and uh I would say there's a lack of consistency.

JR Gettler 1:13

Very good word for it, yeah.

Zakk Plocica 1:15

Uh, between them, right? So these guys are coming in with these, like all these brands are are are creating or ordering these custom or these blanks from China. They're coming in, they're putting their logo on them, whatever they're doing, and they're building out these arrows for guys, and almost promising like a premium build. But when we look at them, we've spun them, dude. The lack of consistency is absolutely bonkers.

JR Gettler 1:37

Yes. Um, not only that, but also the performance side of it um has not been up to the standards, I think, either. And we we had that one customer remember where he he was getting no penetration and he was shooting 80 pounds, uh 30 and a half, 31 inch draw length, and he was getting like six inches of penetration, and we changed him to a different arrow and pass through is like crazy, which is weird.

Zakk Plocica 1:58

I'm wondering why he wasn't and he's a good shooter, yeah, uh, for one, but I'm curious as to why. But I talked to another friend of ours, Joe Long, and he's had multiple guys that have had come through from these custom arrow builders where they've just had issues with their arrows. The arrows look good, but when you put them on and you test them, there's a lack of consistency from overall weight to spine to straightness. And I think when there's a lack of consistency with spine is going to be your biggest issue, right? So they're not, I mean, they're not, I don't, there's no way that they're tuning great. I mean, when they're each arrow fluctuates to the degree that they are. So I would caution people, you know, with the custom aerobillo side of things that are using those Chinese blanks. You know, there's plenty of brands out there that are putting out a premium arrow that are vetted, right? You know what you're getting, Easton Victory, Black Eagle, Gold Tip, but that cuts down to a lot of these guys, these guys' margins.

SPEAKER_00 2:52

Right. It does.

Zakk Plocica 2:53

So I would just err on the side of caution personally, right? Um, and you know, especially when it comes to the Chinese blanks. You just don't know exactly what it is you're getting when those arrows, when you get those arrows.

SPEAKER_00 3:05

Right.

Zakk Plocica 3:05

Um especially somebody that's new that's looking like, oh, I'm gonna spend a premium amount of money on this premium arrow, and they don't spin them, they don't check, they don't know how to check for spine consistency or overall weight. There's just too much fluctuation, in my opinion, for you to invest that kind of money in them and end up with something subpar. I'm not saying everybody is doing that, but we have seen an influx of dudes that are doing that. And this season in particular, we've seen a lot of them come through the shop and they've just they haven't been great.

JR Gettler 3:34

And yeah, and you know, it's it's cool that you know the guys are wanting to do this, they're wanting to to get into that market making custom arrows and make them look cool. But at the end of the day, if they're not performing, it's you you need to make sure if you're gonna do that business model, you need to test it yourself and make sure it is gonna be consistent and perform.

Zakk Plocica 3:50

Right. And I and I'm sure there are some that perform well, and I'm sure there's some guys that had some really good luck with them. But I know from what we've seen, a handful of the guys that come through who have not had good luck, they've just been, like I said, inconsistent.

SPEAKER_03 4:01

Right.

Zakk Plocica 4:02

Uh, and I would I would say if you're gonna start the custom building side of things, I mean, it'd probably be safe to go with a brand that's vetted. And I understand that it cuts profit margin, but you're putting out a premium product versus a subpar product because you're I know there's no way you're going through every single one of those blanks, spinning them, sorting them, and whatnot. We've just seen it a mass, almost like max production of custom-built arrows that look incredible. They look great, but they do not perform up to the standard whenever you put them against anything else that's been vetted.

JR Gettler 4:34

Right. Yeah, you know, looking good as part of the game, but it has to perform.

Zakk Plocica 4:37

It does, man. And uh it it and obviously there's a lot of money to be made there, right? Everybody wants a cool arrow. Total archery chat uh season coming up. You could probably get away with a little bit less um quality of an arrow because you're not strapping a broadhead on there. But whenever we've seen these things perform with broadheads, it just haven't been good. Flight's been off, it's just been inconsistent. Um, I don't know so much about the durability side. I haven't really seen a massive issue with that, but it's just the lack of consistency, I would say, with weight, spine, and straightness. It's just all over the board.

JR Gettler 5:08

Yep. Yeah, it's kind of a weird thing.

Zakk Plocica 5:11

So yeah, it's it is so be cautious with your arrow builder out there, guys. Uh, I know at Extreme Outfitters, we sell all of your, you know, your East Ends Victories, uh, gold tips, all your premium brands. We can custom build them for you if you ever need them.

JR Gettler 5:26

Um and we get them directly from the source. We're not buying them aftermarket or used or anything like that. That was somebody questioned before.

Why Penetration Failed On “Premium” Builds

Zakk Plocica 5:34

No, all of our stuff is directly from the manufacturer. We've we've invested a lot of money heavily into the brands, uh, and we stock a massive amount of arrows, shafts that we can custom build, and we sell them all individually for guys that want to do their testing. We offer free cut and glue. So if you need custom arrows, check it out, extremeoutfitters.com. If pick the shafts you want, let us know how you want them built. We can do it for you. So no problem there. And any of your other custom arrow builders, there's a lot of good, really good ones out there that are doing some killer builds. Uh, I would say make go with those guys, just vet them and make sure you're getting a good shaft. And I'm not saying you need to run match grade everything. No, but I am saying whenever you go with an East and non-match grade or a Victory Sport or even a gamer, there there's more consistency there. The spine is consistent, the straightness is consistent with what they're advertising. You're not going from uh 1000ths to God, I don't even know. Some of the ones we watch spin were just like they're awful. The the needle was all over the place. So just be cautious with it. If you're gonna invest your money, invest it wisely, invest, I would say, in people who've invested in quality brands. It just saves you a lot of headache because we had guys come in, spend hundreds of dollars on these custom arrow builds, and they just weren't good.

JR Gettler 6:40

Yeah, yeah, and then they had to buy more arrows, and that's a lot of money.

Zakk Plocica 6:44

And dude, with a simpler build, too. Yep. The I mean, over it ended up costing less money and it performed a thousand times better.

JR Gettler 6:53

Thousand times better.

Zakk Plocica 6:54

So it's cost some guys some deer this year. So just err on the side of caution. It is a brand, it is a business that is coming up and coming with um total archery in it, like I said, with all that. And you know, just be cautious with how you spend your money, make sure it's vetted. Um, there, like I said, there's some really good ones out there, but just caution. I would be cautious on the blanks from China. Yeah, so but from there, man, let's let's move into it. New arrows 2025. Like I said, there was a whole bunch. Easton dropped some, the 5-0, absolutely phenomenal. The FMJ Max was new for the year. Victory dropped the HLR, the VLR, the Rival, and the Rival X. Yep. What else did I miss?

JR Gettler 7:32

That was that was the big ones. Yep, that was it.

Zakk Plocica 7:35

So starting off, the 5-0, absolutely phenomenal arrow. Um, we've both run them, I think, and had really good um results with them. But I there's been a mix, and I see it more and more. I just had an email yesterday with durability side of things, which is kind of mind-blowing to me. And I'm just still not sure what the issue is because I've run a dozen, I've shot a full dozen, I've broke zero, I've passed through multiple deer with them, I've shot through uh total archery with them, three D with them, I've had no issues whatsoever.

JR Gettler 8:05

Yeah, same.

Zakk Plocica 8:06

And then on the flip side, I get a guy that sends an email like, look, I broke a half dozen. And I don't understand how.

JR Gettler 8:13

Right. And so yeah, we were talking about it last night, and I mean, I think a lot of it does come down to the tune of the bow. If if you're buying different arrows and you're not getting your bow tuned or reset up for it, that is going to cause a lot of problems. Um, another thing is if you're underspined, you know, that could be causing problems too. So there's a lot of different variables that can go into play with that.

Zakk Plocica 8:32

So when you talk about that, when we talk about underspined, what I see, what I potentially see with with some of these guys is they're running their standard, you know, maybe they're running a 300 spine and they want something that's super FOC focused, but still light, and they're stacking a ton of weight, and it's making this the spine weak for what they're shooting, and they don't understand that or they don't realize that, which could cause issues on impact with the target, I would say.

SPEAKER_00 8:57

Correct.

Buyer Caution And Trusted Brands

Zakk Plocica 8:58

Um, the other thing could be how they build them using hot melt. I know that's been an issue with some people. They're overheating these shafts using hot melt, and it's making them brittle, and then they snap. Right. So obviously, when you go with the 5-0, dude, that is a thinner wall five mil shaft. It's a lower GPI 5 mil. So the durability, you cannot compare it to an Axis 5 mil to a rip TKO or any of those. It's just a thinner overall wall. So it is gonna be less durable than a than an Axis or a RIP TKO or anything like that.

JR Gettler 9:30

Yes, 100%. Uh couldn't agree more. Um, one thing I noticed, so yeah, I shot those a lot during 3D attack, all that stuff, uh, the five O's. And um, I had one break. I hit the target, I don't know what happened, but it was actually at the insert that it broke. And I was using that that uh half out, the match grade half out. And that's where it broke right there. It was actually the half out.

Zakk Plocica 9:49

So that's not been the common place where we've seen break.

JR Gettler 9:52

We've been seeing them breaking about a third of the way down the shaft, is kind of where we've been seeing it happen. So, I mean, there could be something going on with certain batches of arrows, they might be absolutely, you know, there might be a little inconsistencies there or something, but I mean, for the most part, it's very minimal that I've heard of any problems with durability-wise.

Zakk Plocica 10:07

Yeah, so I would be curious from you guys who have run the 5-0, like, and if you've if you've had any of them break, like what did your build look like? Like, did were they spin correctly? Was your bow tuned specifically for the arrow? You know, did you overstack weight in them? Like, what led to yours potentially breaking, or do you just think it was just a fluke with the arrows, bad batch, like JR said? I'd be curious for some feedback on it because we've had so many, it's it's been a mix. We've had a most people, I think, have had a really good experience, but then we've had guys who just have not had a good experience whatsoever with them. So I'm very interested as to if you have had your bad experience, like what what do you think led to them breaking? What did you do everything right? Or you know, was it just a bad batch? So let us know.

JR Gettler 10:51

Another thing would be like, are you changing Knox? Are you still running the the factory Knox? Are you changing out Knox? Um, because I I haven't seen any problems with the micro light knocks. None. That's that's what I always run. Um, unless if you're changing like to lighted knocks or something like that, if that's causing any problems too, I'd be I'd be curious on that as well.

Zakk Plocica 11:06

Yeah, you know, it interesting enough too. I've the the big push with lighted Knox is I watch the uh what's his name, Dan from Elk Shape pushing the Amazon lighted Knox. I personally don't think it's a good idea. Yeah, I don't even like dude. I think it's a terrible advice, personally. And if you change them out all the time, that's one thing. But if you shoot a high poundage bow, you have a really long draw length and you're running those cheap knocks, we see them blow up more times than not with guys who just don't take care of their equipment. I would say Dan is more diligent with his equipment. He takes merit care of his equipment more, he rotates through things more. A lot of guys that are like, I'm gonna shoot this arrow for the next, you know, I'm gonna shoot eight animals with it, and they run that lighted knock. I just think you run into too much of a chance of that knock breaking, exploding on um once you release that arrow, which causes the bow to either blow up, derail, cause a host of issues, throw your string, whatever it is. Um lighted knocks to me, I just I've always I've just never been comfortable with them uh just because we've seen too many issues with them. I do think there's some good ones out there. We've had really good luck with the Halo Knox this year. They've performed well. Um, I think the Luminox have done pretty good, but more and more people talking about the Amazon locks, if you're gonna run them, you need to rotate them out like very, very regularly, shoot them a handful of times, throw them away, yeah, put on a new one.

JR Gettler 12:31

Yeah, couldn't agree more. Um, I'm I'm kind of the same way. I'll I'll play with light and knocks occasionally, but typically I just run a standard uh micro ladder, whatever, whatever comes standard on the arrow.

Easton 5.0 Performance And Durability Debate

Zakk Plocica 12:39

Yeah, I and and like I said, I there I don't have anything against knighted locks. There's been a lot that performs really, really well. But I think night a lighted Knox is something you need to be a little bit more cautious with and inspect more often when you do shoot them. Right. Uh because everybody wants that cool video shooting at night, shooting at those targets. I mean, that's that's the big thing with them. Um, and then they're great for finding your arrow after you shoot an animal, but you need to just make sure you inspect them and be pretty rigorous with your inspection process because if it is cracked and you don't see it, there's a micro crack in it, and you go to shoot that bow, especially an 80-pound bow, 31-inch draw length, dude.

JR Gettler 13:16

It's gonna be a bad day for that bow.

Zakk Plocica 13:17

That bow is toast until you take it back into a shop.

JR Gettler 13:20

I mean, I've had that happen with me too. I mean, I was probably three years ago I was using lighted knocks on four mills, and I mean, there were brand new knocks. I was hunting, and I've shot at two animals, and the first one blew up, the second one actually worked, but it did break afterwards.

Zakk Plocica 13:32

Yeah, the four mill is is uh you have to be, I would say, even more cautious with your micro diameter uh lighted Knox. Um just because it's so small and there's so much going on within that the internals of that knock, right? You gotta have a battery in there, you gotta have all your electronics and the bulb and whatever to make it work. So you take away the durability side because it's not there's not as much material, right?

JR Gettler 13:54

Yep, and you gotta have that pressure switch and all that stuff too. So if something malfunctions there, that's just gonna cause that knock to blow up.

Zakk Plocica 13:59

Yeah, so just be cautious with them. Um, and like I said, if you do go with the cheaper ones, just inspect them, inspect them. Be, I mean, I would err on the side of caution, shoot them a handful of times and retire them. And when I say retire them, throw them in the trash.

JR Gettler 14:14

Yep, couldn't agree more.

Zakk Plocica 14:15

So there is that. Uh so you know, Easton 5-0, phenomenal arrow. I built mine up specifically for Total Archery Challenge this past season. They worked fantastic there. Like I said, no durability side. And then I took them and I was like, you know what? I'm just gonna run the arrow hunting. And mine were built up very simple. Um, I ran a 300 spine, it was cut down to like 27 and three-quarters or 28 inches, 50 grains of brass, 100 grain head up front, stock the standard micro light knock with a three-fletch AEE max stealth. Total arrow weight was 418, 420 grains. They flew fantastic for tack, and they passed through every animal I shot for um when I was hunting this year. Uh, the I and I shot a good buck in Kentucky with them, and I shot two does in North Carolina with them. My biggest thing with it was yes, they flew really, really well. My bow, it was almost too fast out of my bow. Right? I was shooting right at 300 feet per second, 299. And uh I was like, oh man, they fly really, really good. I haven't had a durability side of things. Um, but my bow was a little bit louder, as it would be with a lighter arrow, right? And I decided later on in the season I went to the FMJ Max. And man, I've never ever been an FMJ guy. Never. I've never liked the, I've always been the guy that's like, you know, you shoot them, they bend, they're the straightest arrow until they're not because they retain the bend. Listen, I think I was wrong. Like, so I went from that 5.0 to the FMJ Max, and I ran that again, very simple. I'm very simplistic with my arrow builds. I didn't think, obviously, my Easton 5.0 was FOC focused. The FMJ Max was not. It was a 465 grain total arrow build with the stock hit insert, 16 grains, the collar, which is like 16 to 18 grains, 100 grain point, a max stealth on the back, stock knock on the rear, 465 grains. Quieted my bow down, right? And um, no, again, the question is FOC over overall wearable arrow weight. What's the impact on it? Dude, I had full pass throughs. I shot three dough this late season, and um not a single issue as far as pass-through. And I just felt like my bow just felt a little bit better, it was a little bit quieter. Um, so it's made me kind of rethink things. I was always a 440-ish kind of grain guy, which was really great for hunting, but I went really light this year for TAC and I carried into hunting. And while it worked really good, I just liked that little bit heavier arrow out of that Mach 33. Um, I just the bow felt a little bit better. Sounds kind of weird, but it did.

JR Gettler 16:55

No, I I totally agree with you on that. Um, so I I kind of do the same thing. You know, I'll I'll make a light arrow for TAC. I'm I'm typically right around 440 to 450.

Zakk Plocica 17:03

Yeah, and and when we compare ourselves, you're a much longer draw length, 30 inches, you're still shooting 70 to 80 pounds.

JR Gettler 17:08

Um, yeah, I think my bow is like 76 pounds this this entire season um on my expedition. Um yeah, so I built those lighter arrows so I can get a little bit more speed, especially for those distance shots uh on TAC and 3D and stuff like that. So um Bo does perform really great with that. I I really I really do like those five-os a lot. Uh typically I like to run four mils, but yeah, I was playing with all the five mils this year and I actually really really enjoyed it. Um it did feel like it was a little bit easier to tune on the five mils versus the four mils.

Zakk Plocica 17:35

Yeah, I I think that's kind of standard though. It seemed uh the it's a more of a I don't know the best way to put it, forgiving shaft when it comes to tuning. Right, I think it's a bigger diameter.

JR Gettler 17:43

The recovery rate is a little bit better on the on the bigger diameter arrows. Yeah. So um super happy with that. And then, yeah, once I heard about the FNJ Maxes, I saw those uh like the December before.

Zakk Plocica 17:53

Yeah, you were you were on it before any of us.

Tuning, Spine, Heat, And Component Pitfalls

JR Gettler 17:55

Yeah, and uh um I was like, man, I really like that. I used to actually shoot the the Axis um F and Js when they first came out, and that was like 2007, 2008, or something like that. I still have some of those arrows too, which they're nostalgic. Um, but I I have been a big fan of them. And um, once I switched to the FNJ Maxes for hunting season, so I'm a little bit heavier than I wanted to be. I I do like a heavier arrow for hunting, but I I was a little bit heavier than I wanted to be. I think it was like 550 grains this year. Um so I I normally run like a 75 or 100 grain half out. Um, and I have 125 grain for broadheads. So I've already got 200 grains up front. So I do like that a little bit, a little bit front of center weight, but nothing overly crazy, I don't think. Um my arrows are 29 inches carbon to carbon, and um, I'm still getting decent speeds. It was like 280, 276 to 280 out of my expedition. So still performing, getting good speeds out of it too. Uh makes it easier for I think tuning. Agreed. Um, because I do like to run fixed blades and also mechanicals. I was I've been playing with the widespread, iron roll wides. So I do like those. I don't want to be as super fast with those. I don't want to, I don't want to have all that surface area from the big cut-on-contact broadhead, you know, dragging my arrow everywhere. So um that's where I like that to be around the 270s, 280s. Um, but I just noticed the bow does shoot better, I think, with the FMJ Maxes, in my opinion, as well. I don't know if it's just with the arrow or if it's maybe just a placebo effect, but it it did seem to shoot and perform really, really well with those FMJ Maxes, and plus um impacts on targets, pulling out super easy, especially that aluminum coating. It was just it felt super easy to pull out of the target. So I feel like that's gonna help a lot with pass throughs as well.

Zakk Plocica 19:30

I do too. And it every little thing matters, right, to a certain extent. Uh uh obviously some things is splitting hairs, but that's a big thing with the FMJ Max is if you show shoot 3D targets in the winter, it's so much easier to pull them out. The Sonic 6.0s I was shooting the uh the um in the Easton 5 0s. Every time you pull them out when it's super cold, there's always like targets stuck to them. Yeah. FMJ Max, you don't have that problem.

JR Gettler 19:54

I noticed that a lot with the Sonics. I don't know if it's just with the shaft, but it's terrible. Any any target you shoot into a Sonic. It is honestly a pain in the butt to pull out of, in my opinion.

Zakk Plocica 20:02

They shoot great.

JR Gettler 20:03

Yeah, they do.

Zakk Plocica 20:04

It's a fantastic shaft, but pulling them out of 3D targets is a pain in the butt. Um, especially when it's cold. But you know, when we talk about the FMJ Max, um, which is the the five mil FMJ, right? It's the the original FMJ, this is a lower GPI FMJ in the FMJ series, FMJ Max. Right. So a little bit less weight. That's why I never really went to the FMJ. It was just an overall heavier arrow. And I like to be real like within reason with my arrows. And 465 is I would say on the heavier side. Uh, and I didn't chrono chronograph my bow and see exactly how fast it was shooting. I know it was shooting plenty fast, adding those 50 grains. Um, but it just did just make that bow, it just felt better. The bow was quieter. Uh, it tuned exceptionally well, very, very fast. There was almost minimal uh tuning that I had to do going from the 5-0 to the FMJ Max. Right. There was obviously a little bit different sight tape.

SPEAKER_00 21:00

Right, right.

Zakk Plocica 21:01

Um, but the arrow just flew really, really good. And what the thing that was I was really impressed about was I went to, I took, took these late season to Kentucky, and I shot those three deer. And um there was no, as far as like I gotta re-spin them, but I shot one, I shot one arrow twice into two different deer, and the flight was phenomenal. So, you know, I'm kind of putting my foot in my mouth with talking about, you know, you shoot an animal, retire the arrow. That arrow, dude, they're tougher than I than I gave them credit for. Uh so I was really, really impressed with that. And um, you know, obviously if you shoot them into the ground or like I'm talking about shoot them into rocks or something like that, it's gonna, it's gonna bend, it's gonna ruin the arrow. It's probably gonna ruin a carbon arrow, too.

SPEAKER_00 21:44

Right.

Zakk Plocica 21:44

Um, but they were much tougher than I gave them credit for, and they just performed really, really well. And I'm pretty sold on this them at this point. You know, Cody from Easton was the one that he was like, just try them. I'm like, man, I'm not an FMJ guy, but I'll give them a shot. I'll take them out there and see what we can do with them. And dude, I'm I'm pretty sold on them for hunting at this point. Uh, because the bow still, I can tell, shooting relatively fast. I'm gonna put it in the chronograph and just get an actual number. But going from 299, it's gonna be shooting in the mid 280s, I would assume.

JR Gettler 22:12

I would venture to say, yeah. Adding 50 greens, yeah, you should be right around 280, 285s, which is the sweet spot when it comes to tuning, right?

Lighted Nocks: Risks, Choices, Maintenance

Zakk Plocica 22:19

280s, 290-ish. When it comes to tuning a bow, especially if you're shooting a broadhead, the arrow is a little bit slower, it's a little bit more forgiving. It just tunes really, really well. Um, and it this thing did, it was phenomenal. Durability side was excellent. And I like, you know, my my 5-0 was FOC focused. My FMJ Max was not, and I had the same result with both. I mean, no pass-through issues whatsoever. So, you know, I think people get hung up a little bit on some of the things that aren't quite they they over-emphasize things that aren't quite as important as what they think they are. And I think going, you know, when we look at going extremes, overall super heavy arrow, overall super FOC focused, I think there's a happy medium that you can do and and account for, and it's and it's a very simple build. Right. And what we've seen, I'd say a lot this year is a lot of people running standard stock components or the factory or the the brand the manufacturer's components versus chasing all these aftermarket components, which are a premium now. The cost of everything has gone up so much, and you know, everybody's kind of coming back to from what we've seen through our shop, a there's not an extreme, everyone's kind of returned back to that middle ground. 420, 480 grains, depending on draw length, depending on um bow poundage, and running a lot more of this standard stock components or the manufacturer's components, right?

JR Gettler 23:48

Um, I I think it kind of boils down to almost two words overcomplication. Yes, I would agree. So um, and it's it's kind of where the industry is going. You know, all the manufacturers have all these different aftermarket components. You have all these other manufacturers that are making aftermarket components for arrows, and it can just be overwhelming, it can be overcomplicating. Um, it's just sometimes just keep it simple. You know, it's a very awesome phrase. Kiss, keep it simple, and you can you can do just fine. You know, I they they kind of say the the standard that you want to have is about 8% FOC. That is like bare minimum. And with your setup, I bet you were probably about 10 to 12% FOC with without doing a calculation. With the F and J Max.

Zakk Plocica 24:29

Yeah, I didn't do it. And I had somebody comment and I'm like, yeah, I don't know. I didn't even know what my 5.0 was. I just know it was more so than anything I've ever run, obviously, because it's a lower GPI. I had 150 grains up front. I mean, GPI on that thing is super low.

JR Gettler 24:41

Or uh actually, I'm sorry, your FMJ Max is probably it's probably gonna be around that 8%. I was gonna say it's gotta be lower. Yeah, yeah. I forgot you were in just the standard stuff in there.

Zakk Plocica 24:49

So and it worked out as far as overall weight, man. I I was really impressed with it. Um, because you know, a couple years back, everybody was chasing extreme weight, and then we hit moved to extreme FOC and it's a full circle. I mean, it's gonna happen, it's keeps going. I mean, it'll happen again, right? Something will change, people got to reinvent the wheel. Um, but I like simplicity like you, and I think most people should probably focus on simplicity and just shooting the bow and making sure the bow is tuned to the arrow that they're shooting, right? Which I think some people neglect because we see a lot of guys going from arrow to arrow to arrow, trying to find whatever it is they're chasing without retuning the bow. Right. Uh, and that's where you know we end up seeing some issues coming through the shop, um, especially when they start strapping on these broadheads. Right. I'm the same thing with broadheads, dude. I like a simple broadhead that just performs.

unknown 25:35

Yep.

JR Gettler 25:35

I've been a big fan of the Severs, um, the Mega Meets, um, Iron Wheel wides.

Zakk Plocica 25:40

I'm curious about the beast. I've heard good things about them. I haven't shot them.

JR Gettler 25:42

Yeah, I haven't shot those yet either. So um, we are carrying them now, which is cool, which um a lot of guys have been liking them. I've heard a lot of really good things with that, with that broadhead. Yeah. So I'm very, very hopeful for them that they'll do good.

Zakk Plocica 25:54

Yeah. So and and back to like the FMJ Max, right? So me and Levi, we were in Kentucky. We were went there to shoot some does. We shot five does. Every one of those does, none of them went more than 54 yards. Yeah, FMJ Max with a sever hybrid 2.0 on there. Oh, yeah. Pretty unstoppable, man. We watched every single deer fall. I got all five on kill shots on camera, and um, you can see all of them in frame go down. I mean, it was it was very impressive. So I'm pretty sold on that setup. And once you get, you know, for me, once I get on something, it's hard for me to get off if I know it works.

JR Gettler 26:26

Yep, yep. I'm kind of the same way. I've been running the same same broadheads for the last couple of years now. So um there's a lot of stuff I want to try. It's just there's not enough time in the day to do it, and there's so many broadheads now. There's so many.

Zakk Plocica 26:37

There are, man. I mean, what is it? There's a new speed broadhead. I don't know anything about that.

JR Gettler 26:40

Yeah, um, there's been a lot of rave on that, but it's just the price point of that is expensive. Is it? Yeah, the speed broadheads, they're like a hundred bucks for two. Something like that. That's rough, man.

Zakk Plocica 26:49

Yeah, it's at some point. I mean, where is premium like too much? Like, because I'll talk my cousin, dude. He shoots the the rages, and he's like, they're cheap, they work, and he shoots monsters. Yep, yep, yep.

JR Gettler 27:03

Yep. I I know um Dane that used to work here years ago, he shot milk with a rage. Yeah. And everyone was like, Well, you you're stupid for doing that. I'm like, well, it it worked. And his blood blood trail was phenomenal. He had blood going all the way up like 10 feet.

Real Hunts: 5.0 Vs FMJ Max Outcomes

Zakk Plocica 27:15

You know, when it comes to archery, it's all about accuracy um and putting the arrow where it needs to be. And I understand bad shots happen, and obviously your goal is to do everything you can to mitigate that. Uh, but when a bow is set up correctly, it's tuned for the arrow, the broadhead is flying as it should. Um, I think you can you can shoot a majority of these broadheads. Obviously, there's some that you just don't want to don't want to mess with. But when you go back to like the James Yates study and look at the broadheads that they tested, the goal is to set up the most forgiving as a bow hunter, to set up the most forgiving setup you can because shots are not always perfect. Right. Variables are always are going to always exist, you know, weather elements, all of these different things, shot angles. So you want something that's easy to shoot, that recovers well. Uh, and his study did a really good job highlighting that. And then we tested it this year. We, you know, building reliable, easy setups that just perform well. And I mean, no, they they worked easy. I mean, every animal was recovered. Um you know, we went, I went six for six. Levi shot three. I don't know how many deer he shot this year. He recovered everything, and I mean everyone I think it was three, yeah. Three, yeah, three or four. I don't know if he shot any more does that we don't we didn't know about, but um in a different state. But everyone, I mean simple. Yep, keeping it simple.

JR Gettler 28:34

Yeah, Brian Brian killed a bunch of deer.

Zakk Plocica 28:36

Dude, Brian killed a ton of deer this year. Uh same thing, recovered everything, and he's he's I mean, he's not overcomplicating anything either. So I would say that's where it's at. Shoot your bow. If there's one thing Brian does do well, I think too, is that he shoots his bow all year round. And I think majority of your guys that have a high success rate, they do that. They're just familiar with their equipment, they don't over-tinker. Uh they build something that works and then they stick with it, and then they, you know, they refine it if it needs to be refined.

JR Gettler 29:01

Yep. Yeah. Uh, one question I was gonna ask is how was the blood trails on on all those animals?

Zakk Plocica 29:06

Insane. Like, I'm talking about it. Look like, yeah, I'm glad you brought that up. When we I have to Joey's editing video and stuff, and we've got I've got a bunch of images and stuff and images of arrows. That is probably the best blood trails I've ever had.

JR Gettler 29:21

That's awesome.

Zakk Plocica 29:22

So that dude, that wide hybrid 2.0 paired with that FMJ, like it and I'm talking about blood on impact.

SPEAKER_00 29:30

Yeah.

Zakk Plocica 29:31

So as soon as that animal was shot, you could start tracking. There was no like, oh man, where you know, typically you shoot an animal and you gotta like go find them.

JR Gettler 29:39

10 to 15 yards, maybe first or team blood, yeah.

Zakk Plocica 29:42

Before you start seeing it. I'm talking about on impact opened up and bled until they went down, which was in all of them were within 54 yards. And I'm talking about just a paint trail. Yeah. So the best blood trails I've ever had were this year and uh consistent on all of the animals that I shot. Um, but particularly in Kentucky with that FMJ Max and that Sever 2.0, because I've always been like a 1-5 guy.

SPEAKER_00 30:07

Right.

Zakk Plocica 30:07

Went to the 2 2. And uh for Whitetail, dude, I'm I'm pretty sold because we're talking about through ribs, um, coming out through shoulders. I had one, um, so I had one deer that I shot a little bit high, had to put a follow-up shot up on her and shot her a second time and went all the way through and cut her, cut her hoof off.

JR Gettler 30:28

Oh wow.

Zakk Plocica 30:29

So there's nothing standing in the way of that uh that arrow and that's that broadhead set.

JR Gettler 30:35

Yeah, those severs are are wicked sharp, I think. Ridiculous. And they they've been performing so they do and they fly really good.

Zakk Plocica 30:41

You know, the thing about the James Yates study with them is when we talk about a long e just a longer arrow, a longer broadhead, there's more drag that's induced on that arrow, right? Because it's longer. Right. They the the thing that uh he noted with it though is just because there's more drag does not mean that there's less accuracy with that broadhead. It doesn't necessarily impact the accuracy side. There's just a little bit more drag, so it slows down a little bit more. But dude, everything I saw, we shot all our deer within uh 25 yards, I think. Um yeah, 25-ish yards all were within there. And um, dude, you couldn't ask for a better, like a better setup, better experience. I mean, it was just very, very easy. And like I said, like talking about blood, man, yeah, the blood was gone by the time they went down to 54 yards. It was just so much. So very, very happy with that broadhead and that arrow setup. That's good. Yeah, I'm I was I was thoroughly surprised. Um, but you know, great arrows from Easton this year, but victory also introduced some absolutely awesome arrows, I would say, as well. Yes, starting with the HLR.

JR Gettler 31:49

Yes.

Zakk Plocica 31:49

So HLR was introduced the end of 2024.

JR Gettler 31:53

Yes, yeah, right. Right around December, I think, uh, November, December, somewhere around there.

Zakk Plocica 31:57

Yeah, and um again, that's a five mil option. All these are five mil that we're talking about so far. Another five mil option. Um, and this is again a lower GPI. So if you're familiar with Victory, the Rip TKO has been our bread and butter, man. Like the uh the RIP TKO, the Elite, their 1000th straight in this shaft has been like our biggest arrow that we've sold on online. And then they also had they had an extreme lightweight five mil option, which was the RIP XV. I would say great for total archery, but it's a very brittle shaft.

JR Gettler 32:29

It is, yeah. Um, don't know how many guys I've seen getting Rip X Vs and then just having problems with them breaking down the road.

Zakk Plocica 32:35

So um I think people get again overly happy with FOC on those, and they just I would say it just can't tolerate that weight on impact when there's flex and it just snaps that that shaft. Um, it it was great for it, but I think you got to be cautious with it. It is, if there is a shaft out there that's brittle, I would say it's the RIP XV.

JR Gettler 32:55

Yeah, yeah, 100%, especially shooting like higher poundage, longer draw length. Um, I would definitely err in the caution with the with the rip X V, but it's still it is a great arrow. It is.

Zakk Plocica 33:03

You can build it, it is a great build for total archery challenge. If you really want that sight tape to reach out there 130, 150 yards, you can do it with that arrow. Um, I would just say don't get crazy, just expect an overall light arrow. Don't get crazy FOC with it, running crazy heavy um uh inserts on it.

SPEAKER_00 33:21

Right.

Speed Vs Weight: Finding A Quiet, Forgiving Setup

Zakk Plocica 33:22

So, yeah, another it's a really great option. Uh, and we see an uptick in sales this time of year going into 3D and total archery, a decline when it comes to hunting. I think most guys realize it's probably not the best hunting shaft. Some guys have had good results with it, but it's primarily a seller in the offseason for us. Yeah, uh, but back to the HLR. The HLR bridges the gap between their XV and the RIP TKO. So it's kind of in that sweet spot as far as GPI when it comes to um five mil shafts. And so you get it more durable five mil than the rip XV, a little less durable than the RIP TKO, but you can build that thing and you can again build this one with an emphasis on FOC. Right. So again, they did change uh one of the things I do like that they did is they changed the the components that you get with it now is a 50-grain stainless steel insert. They've also done that with the RIP TKO. Yes, it was an inline change, which confused a lot of people and it was frustrating initially because it was in line, but they went away from that 50 grain shock insert, which is aluminum, and they've gone to the 50 grain stainless steel half out system.

JR Gettler 34:26

I believe it's the TL, the shock TL or something like that is what they're calling it now. Yeah, um, but yeah, definite big upgrade on that on that insert, and I like it a lot better.

Zakk Plocica 34:34

I do too. More durable. It is a shorter profile though, which I think is good. It's not you're less likely to bend that.

JR Gettler 34:40

Yep, and it's not gonna increase your overall length of the arrow as much either.

Zakk Plocica 34:43

Absolutely. So if you are somebody that's got ripped TKOs a while back, and now you're going and you're maybe maybe you're ordering some more from extreme outfitters to to fill your your quiver. What just know that there was an inline change with the outsert system. It is the new, it's still 50 grains, but it's a stainless steel, it's a shorter profile insert system. So that is also on the HLR. And I I'd say the durability on the HLR from what we've seen has been really good.

JR Gettler 35:10

Yes. Um, we've had a few here and there with to be expected. But yeah, that's that's like you said, to be expected. So um, yeah, it's done really well. It is a little bit lighter also than the 5-0. So a lot of guys are gravitating towards that. And then there's been also guys that are like, well, it's too light, so I want to go back to the 5.0 or they'll have something else.

Zakk Plocica 35:26

Yeah, and I think the big difference when the weight was in the the actual um, it was the 250 spine where was the biggest difference in weight between the 5.0 and um the HLR, right? Because I'm looking at it now. So like a 250 spine in the five in the 5.0 is 9.5, while the 250 in the HLR is an 8.7. Yeah, everything else is within like 0.2 to 0.5 grains. The biggest difference is in the 250. So if you're somebody that shoots a 250 spine and you want the absolute lightest, go with the HLR. If you want a little bit heavier, go with the 5.0 in the 250 spine. Specifically, all the other spines are relatively close as far as GPI goes.

SPEAKER_00 36:16

Yeah.

Zakk Plocica 36:17

So yeah, I don't know. I I think the the HLR, there was a really good response with it. I see again, uh, there was a lot of dudes that hunted with it. I expect uptick as far as sales go for total archery. There's just a lot of really great Total Archery and 3D bill or arrows that are out now that to choose from, specifically in the five mil category. So it's good. There's a lot of options, and we're kind of seeing these manufacturers going back and forth against each other.

JR Gettler 36:41

Yep, there's that rivalry, rivalry, yes, yeah, which is good, right?

Zakk Plocica 36:46

You know, competition drives innovation and pushes companies to create new things, and um, this is good to see. Uh, and same thing in the four mil category. So HLR five mil, Victory just released the VLR in the four-mil category. So there's a lot that has come from Victory this year. Um, the VLR was released later in the year, so it's it just released, I think, in like it was December, October, November. We got ours in November. We got them early.

JR Gettler 37:17

Oh, yeah, that's right. Yeah, I think it was um October when they launched that. I guess I believe, yeah.

Zakk Plocica 37:20

We got them in November. Um, and so kind of late in the season for somebody to change as far as hunting goes. But if you're a five mil guy, I think the VLR is gonna be another really great option for you. It's a um, it's just a new four-mil. You know, they have the VAP series, VAP TKOs. Now they've got the VLR, which is a lighter four-mil option, right?

JR Gettler 37:39

Well, they have the VAP, the VAP TKO, and then now the VLR. So, yeah, there's a bunch of different options for them.

Zakk Plocica 37:45

What's the big difference?

JR Gettler 37:46

There's also still the VAP SS.

Zakk Plocica 37:48

So there's yeah, that's they're super heavy. They've got light, medium, and heavy.

JR Gettler 37:51

Yeah.

Zakk Plocica 37:52

Uh so when we look at like a 300 spawn and VLR, is a 9.0. Yes. Thank you, JR. And then if you go to like a VAP TKO, those are nine seven.

SPEAKER_00 38:03

Let's take a look real quick. For some reason, 9-5.

Zakk Plocica 38:08

So they're close, yeah. But the VLR is still a lighter formula option. So again, if FOC, if you want more FOC, VLR is gonna be the better option to go with. Um, those are they have them available in their elites, their gamers, and their sports. So one thousandth, three thousandths, and five thousandths. Yeah, uh, so I really am expecting to see a lot of VLRs at TAC. Um just because it's new.

JR Gettler 38:31

Yeah, I mean, that's honestly probably what I think I'm gonna run this year. I I've already built some up and um I'm running the TAC HPs in the back in a four-fletch um with a standard insert and a hundred grain head, and I'm sitting at 420-ish screens, I think. So I'm gonna really enjoy that for a good tack arrow.

Zakk Plocica 38:49

Yeah, you're gonna really be able to stretch that sight tape out. Yeah, I don't know what I'm gonna do. I don't know if I'm gonna go back to the 5-0, if I'm gonna do something different.

Victory HLR: Positioning And Components

JR Gettler 38:56

Um, yeah, the 5-0 is a great arrow, it really was. Um, but just since we're on Victory, though, I I love the aesthetics of Victory. Their arrows, nobody can touch them.

Zakk Plocica 39:06

Even Cody was like, this is a good looking arrow. And it they really are, man. I mean, so from everything that they put in them to into them, it's a 1.5 uh K weave. So they're supposed to recover a little bit faster. And that weave on that arrow just looks fantastic, man. They're sharp looking. The best thing about a victory too on all their arrows is the nano ceramic coating. They're so easy to pull on targets. I dude, it is super clean and it does make a big difference when it comes to pulling targets. And I think it honestly does aid in penetration. It does, right? Especially, you know, it's just a slicker surface area. So obviously, whatever it comes in contact with, it's gonna slip through a little bit easier.

JR Gettler 39:47

So and then formulas, you know, smallest diameter that you can get for hunting, and it's gonna be it's gonna be great for passers. Absolutely.

Zakk Plocica 39:54

Less surface area, less surface area. The other cool thing that victory does, I think, uh, that people appreciate is how they spy. Align all of their shafts. So it eliminates you from having to do it. They already come from the factory, indicate it with pre-spine to line, which is a nice feature. So there are a lot of features that Victory offers that I think people really appreciate. One, the the aesthetics of it, two, the coating on it for pulling, and then three, the spine alignment that they um indicate on all of their shafts. Just makes, if you're fletching your own arrows, very easy to indicate where the stiffest side of the spine is.

JR Gettler 40:26

And that's one thing to keep in mind, too, is when you're tuning your bow, I would recommend doing it with a bare shaft on that, just to see which way your spine likes to be. Generally speaking, though, it does most bows like to have the spine down. So that way you can you know for indexing your arrow.

Zakk Plocica 40:39

You run them down for the victories for most of them.

JR Gettler 40:41

Yeah, run that spine down. So we're saying spinal lines, run that on the bottom. Good to know. Just a little tip. A little tip. Should make it easier for tuning.

Zakk Plocica 40:49

Yeah, and interesting enough, Easton claims that there is no stiff side of the arrow. And depending on who you talk to and how you check the stiffness of the spine, um that's doesn't seem to be the case for some people, at least according to some people.

JR Gettler 41:05

Yeah, so I've done a lot of testing with it. Um I don't really notice anything in like spinning them, even with the weight and everything, doing it by the book, how it says to do it. I don't notice a stiffer uh stiffer size. I've done a lot of testing on the four mills specifically. So I'm I can't state for the five mils, like the five ohs and all that. I haven't done any testing with those, but on the four mills, I have noticed that there is no stiff stiff part on that spine. Um, you can flex them though. Um, there's a certain way you can do that. If you just put an insert in both sides, put a fuel point in there, and just use a press. You can actually kind of find um the way that the arrow rebounds, you can find a stiffer spar, stiffer spot there.

Zakk Plocica 41:45

Interesting. I mean, that's all good information, and I think that's really diving into the weeds. So for me, people like I knock tune every air. No, I don't do any of that.

JR Gettler 41:53

I don't either. I've I've gone down the rabbit holes with all that stuff, and believe me, I've only thing I do is I'm consistent on where I want the logos. I have my logo facing out, that's how I and that's all I do.

Zakk Plocica 42:04

So all of my knocks, it's got like the little tab on it, all of them face in for me for indexing. Okay, so we're the opposite there, but as long as it's consistent and I shoot one, I pick an arrow, I put it through paper. As long as it bullet holes, I run them, and I'm yet to have an issue. And now, and I'm I'm a bow, I'm like my focus is bow hunting, right? So I don't go, I don't weight sort on my arrows, I don't spin on my shafts, I don't do any of that. I get I get my arrows, like, and I'll buy a handful from us, or you know, rarely do I buy a full dozen. I'm like that guy that doesn't hardly ever do that. That's why I was so big on offering our shafts individual at Extreme Outfitters, because I'm the guy that's not gonna buy a full dozen. Maybe I'll buy six. You know, typically I buy exactly what I need, and I'm good.

JR Gettler 42:48

Okay, I need five of everyone. Let's run five.

Zakk Plocica 42:50

And um, I don't overcomplicate it at all, and I'm yet to have an issue with it. But again, I am I am bow hunter. Like I'm not a target guy, I'm not looking for incredible, super tight precision, but I do shoot fairly well, I would say, and I'm very consistent. And you know, I just I tucked those um FMJ Maxes after I got back from Kentucky and I went and shot them at 71 yards, and those at 71 yards are touching. So one, that just attributes to the quality of the FMJ Max and how reliable and how wrong I was about aluminum. And two, I didn't knock-tune those, I didn't wait sort, I didn't spin those, I grabbed those, those are two, and then I shot them, and they performed all my arrows have performed exceptionally well with a broadhead on them. So, do you need to dive in the weeds on that? Yeah, if you enjoy it, cool. Um, if not, I don't think it's something that necessarily needs to be done.

JR Gettler 43:43

If you're bored and it's uh a rainy day out and you want to play around, yeah, absolutely. Have fun.

Zakk Plocica 43:47

And then you can drive yourself crazy and then you can call us and say, well, these arrows aren't spinning perfectly and this and that, and we'll say, Man, listen, there's call Easton, I don't know what else to tell you. Yeah, um yeah, there's it's wild, man. I think um it's uh definitely easy to get consumed by arrows, are the one thing in archery that we see most people battle.

JR Gettler 44:10

Yep.

Zakk Plocica 44:10

And I don't think you have to do that.

JR Gettler 44:12

Yeah, not at all. I mean, unless you really want to. And if if you want to start pulling out your hair and getting gray hairs from it, yeah, like I said, by all means dive down that rabbit hole. Yeah, yeah.

Zakk Plocica 44:21

I think I think again, it just comes back to you spend more time. Make sure the bow's set up correctly, make sure the arrow is set up correctly, shoot the bow. Spend time behind it, man. Uh, it's very easy. I think too, with a lot of people, I've noticed it with myself. I'll go out and shoot a bunch of arrows, and then the next day I'll come out and I'm like, oh, something's off. Turns out it was just me. Take a break, put them down, come back, shoot again a little bit later.

SPEAKER_00 44:40

Yep.

Zakk Plocica 44:40

Yeah, easy to do. Uh so VLR, fantastic. New four mil from Victory, HLR, the newest five mil. And then now they've just released the new Rival and Rival X. So this is pretty interesting because this is a new arrow diameter. So this is a 225.

JR Gettler 44:59

Yeah.

Zakk Plocica 44:59

Right? It's not a six mil.

JR Gettler 45:01

Like I thought it was supposed to be.

Zakk Plocica 45:02

Like you thought it was. It's not because I did the calculation. It's like a 5.75 mil. So they have typically you'll see a 204, right? Is a five mil, and then you'll see a 245, which is a standard diameter. This is a 225. This is not a true six mil. It's not a five mil. It's in between those. So new different components. The there is the rival and the rival X. The right, the only difference between these two shafts is the straightness. The rival X is a two thousandth straightness, and the rival is a five thousandths. If you're familiar with victory, this is weird because they have an elite, they have a gamer, and they have a sport. This does not meet any, except for the rival, which is a five thousandths, the rival X is a two thousands. It's not a one thousandths, it's not a three thousands, and it's in the middle.

SPEAKER_03 45:47

Yep.

Zakk Plocica 45:48

Kind of a different look, different approach to the these arrows. And with it being a different or a new diameter, it requires a knock bushing, right? And then your components are kind of cool that it comes with it as well. You still get a total of 50 grains, but your insert is 30, and then you get an additional 20 grains of weight that you can screw into the back of that insert to really play with your point weight, depending on how you want to build these arrows. So a different diameter, still a super incredible looking arrow. I mean, I one of their best looking, I think. And it's just a different size. So component selection is gonna be less. Um, and then who are they gonna be built for? I would say 3D and TAC. Like personally, that's what I would build them for. I'm sure there's gonna be a lot of people that hunt with them, but what do you think?

JR Gettler 46:39

Uh, pretty much couldn't say it any better. Yep. I think it's gonna be a great tack, 3D arrow, especially for the bow hunter class, you know, guys that are wanting just a good all-around arrow. Um, but it can also be a great hunting arrow because I mean you can actually add that weight system in there if you want to. So um, I don't really think there's gonna be a need for an aftermarket component, but I'm sure somebody's gonna end up making one eventually. I don't know if they have they might have already made some too. So um, but it's yeah, you can just go from the back of the arrow, add add that weight if you want to, or take away it if you want to.

Zakk Plocica 47:05

Yeah, so it it's it is neat. Um, I'm just curious to see how well it does because it is it's in its own category, essentially. So component selection, if you're somebody that just runs stock components, no big deal. But if you're somebody that's like, oh man, I want to be able to play in Tinker, you're gonna be kind of limited.

SPEAKER_03 47:21

Right.

Zakk Plocica 47:21

Um, but we'll see. It's definitely a good looking arrow, and I see we're already starting to see sales increase with them as the seasons kind of ended. People now people start tinkering. Uh so I'm I'm curious to see what people end up primarily using them for or building or how they're building them out.

JR Gettler 47:38

Um, and then also that's isn't that a one 1.5k carbon weave. Yes, it is.

Zakk Plocica 47:43

Uh so again, they've stuck with that. Um I think victory just does a really, really good job. I mean, when you look at their arrows, when we talk about uh just the look, the the look alone will sell you on their shafts, man.

JR Gettler 48:00

Yeah, um, yeah, and you can get them uh bear shaft, you can get them, I believe, pre-fletched in six packs. Yep, you can. So plenty of options for that. Um, but yeah, a lot of guys gravitate towards that bear shaft option.

Zakk Plocica 48:11

I think yeah, and when we get into arrows like this, most of your guys are building them up how they want. So they're putting their vein configuration on the back of them, whether they're wrapping them or not. I mean, when we get into more of your premium arrows, most people are buying bear shafts because they've got a specific way they like to build them. But when we look at this arrow, you got a 250 all the way up to a 500 as far as spine goes. And then as far as GPI goes, so a 300 spine is 8.6 grains per inch. Fairly light for a 300 spine, I would say. So it's gonna be a little bit thinner wall. Um, but they still, I mean, with that 225, it's still a fairly thick wall compared to like a 5mm or something like that. Um, you know, 250 is 9.6, 300 is 8.6, 350s 8.1, a 400 is 7.1, and a 500 is 6.9. So you could I could see people potentially running a little bit weaker spine, cutting these things incredibly short and getting a really light, fast arrow out of them.

Rival And Rival X: New 2.25 ID Class

JR Gettler 49:06

Yeah, 100%. Um, so I'm I have bought some and built some myself already as well. Because I like to think of stuff too. Um, I cut them, I think it was like 28 and three-quarter carbon carbon. Super short. I did cut a little bit shorter um because I was figuring it be a good 3D tack arrow, so that's why I'm a little bit shorter. Um, running tacks on the on the back, the tack veins in a four-fletch, and just the standard 50 grain insert with the 100 grain head, and it's gonna be like right on that same 420 grain. So it's gonna be another really good option for if I want to run for tack or 3D, you know, I can actually definitely play that, no problem.

Zakk Plocica 49:36

Yeah, that's fairly light for what it is, huh?

JR Gettler 49:39

Yeah, and yeah, once again, the aesthetics, so yeah, that's just one of the best looking arrows on the market.

Zakk Plocica 49:43

So they're clean looking. So, what about as far as have you noticed any issues with fletching any victories just off of the shaft booth the nano coating? Do you have any issues with adhering? No, I have not. As long as you do what you're supposed to with your veins, prep them, prep the shaft, use the right glue. Dude, that new OMP jig, yes, those are new, I guess, but I bought one.

SPEAKER_00 50:04

Yeah, they're there's there's weak yeah, dude.

Zakk Plocica 50:06

As far as like getting like the degree helical offset, I mean, and consistency, as far as like going from build to build to build, it is so easy.

JR Gettler 50:16

Yeah, I love it. It's been a great addition to I think the shop, and then um, yeah, just the way they made it too. So I'm super happy with it. I did hear that there's gonna be a new fletching jig coming out soon from somebody. So um I can't really give any details, but they didn't get enough from ATA. No, no, no, no, no. Okay. So there's something new in the works from a company.

SPEAKER_00 50:37

Big company. Yeah, pretty big, kind of big.

Zakk Plocica 50:41

Interesting. Yeah, I'm curious because I'm be bummed if it's better than what I just bought. Well, I don't know what it's gonna release, though.

JR Gettler 50:46

That's what I'm saying.

Zakk Plocica 50:47

Gotcha. Dude, that um I would say another, so when we go back to look into building arrows, the the build process, I think, is probably the critical part of it whenever we talk about building arrows, right? Making sure you're building them correctly. And um for us, whenever we look at all these shafts, all these great arrows that are out there, I think if you don't build them correctly or you don't take your time on building it, kind of where you can run into issues, right? So from the way you cut your arrows to you square your arrows to you prep them to prepping for fletchings, I think there's a process that you need to work through and you need to take your time with. Um and for us, like whenever we cut, we use a good saw whenever we cut our arrows. I've seen guys out there talking about using a Dremel, which is insane to me. Um just as far as consistency goes. But maybe if you made an awesome jig to hold that dremel, cool. Uh but I would I would make sure you use a good saw on it. And then the big thing is is squaring the front of the arrow, and for some people, squaring the rear of the shaft. Right. Um just so that your components line up like they should. And we see the biggest issue when it comes to outsert systems, right? Because if that arrow's not square, you can have the straightest, you can have the the elite shafts, you could have the match grade from Easton, your 1000 straightness. If the ends aren't square and your components don't marry up flush like they should, you're gonna see wobble in that shaft. And that's one thing that we have noticed with some of the aftermarket components, or with people not building arrows correctly or taking the time to build them, is the arrow will be fantastic, but there'll be a wobble as soon as you put that out that insert on there, and your flight is gonna be off. It's gonna negatively impact the flight of your arrow.

JR Gettler 52:24

Yep. So one thing that you can help to do to mitigate that is, you know, obviously, like you said, making sure you're squaring it, doing the prep work correctly. But also before you start gluing everything, um, put your components on there, spin it and see, and then you can actually kind of um insert tune is what we call that. So you can actually spin that and see if that does make a change at all. So if you need to stand down, or another tip you can do is um after you cut it, get a like a gray sharpie, mark the uh the end of the carbon that you cut, square that, and then see if it is actually squaring it completely. Because it'll take off that that sharpie mark too.

Zakk Plocica 52:58

Yeah, those are those are really, really great points.

JR Gettler 53:00

Um But I mean that's honestly just going really deep into it. Like, I don't know if you need to go that necessarily that far. You know, just like I said, if anything, just put your insider in there, spin it, see if it is, and then you turn it and see if it is still spinning straight.

Zakk Plocica 53:11

I think that's where hot melt is so great too. Yeah, uh, whenever you whenever it comes to test building, right? And that's what a lot of people do with a new arrow is they test build, and that's where hot melt is critical. Um, one, you need to be cautious with hot melt, you're not overly heating the shaft because that will um degrade that carbon. Yes, it will. And you've got to be and you need to, as soon as you do that, that's when you start getting arrows that break, they're inconsistent and whatnot. So you need to heat it up just enough to get it warm to where you can slide that insert in and it seats. Um but yeah, just taking your time with the build process from the way you cut it to the way you square it to where you prep it, and then spin it. And we do see the biggest issue is with your outsert systems. So you just need to take your time whenever you're building those and making sure that everything is flush and marries up well. Right. Uh, because if not, uh you'll you'll just have bad aeroflight. Same thing with your hit insert. Whenever you go to put hit inserts in your shafts, right? That's that hidden insert within the Easton system. Um, those little inserts that are recessed, they are to be recessed within the shaft. You got to use the little tool, right? Whether you use the um the Easton's tool or the aftermarket tool from Iron Wheel. Iron Wheel, you got to press that insert all the way down in there. You need to make sure it sets and that it doesn't push back out. Because we've seen that issue too, where you kind of get an air pocket, excuse me, and that insert pushes back out, and then your your actual tips or your broadheads won't be flush and uh recess into the shaft as deep as they they need to be. So again, you can take your knocks out to eliminate that issue, but you just need to make sure that you push that in all the way whenever it comes to building anything that requires a hit insert. Correct.

JR Gettler 54:47

Or deep six or anything like that.

Zakk Plocica 54:48

Deep six, anything like that recessed into the shaft, which I'm a huge fan of. I love the hit insert system. I think it is incredibly tough. I think it makes an arrow as far as spinning goes simple. You don't have an outsert system on there that could wobble. Uh, again, just very durable. Um, and paired with the collar on the the Easton arrows now, it's a bulletproof system, I think, um, when it comes to building an arrow. Just very, very tough.

JR Gettler 55:14

And speaking of the hit, um, Easton now is no longer offering the brass for the hidden sort of stainless steel.

Build Quality: Cutting, Squaring, Inserts

Zakk Plocica 55:19

Yeah, that's a new upgrade. And we talked to them about that, and they said, I mean, they were able to do it with stainless. Stainless is a harder, it's going to be less likely to strip out, to have any kind of issues. So they they went and upgraded from brass to stainless. It's still the same concept. It's a 50 to 75 breakoff insert system, so you can run 50 or 75 grains. Um, so same overall weight, same concept, just a little bit more durable. So I think that's just a great addition. I'm a huge fan of the insert or the hit insert, um, especially the app that that 50 grains typically on like a 5-0 or something like that. It's great. Um, but you want you want to talk about durable? An Axis 5 mil paired with a hit insert with a collar on it, dude. That is untouchable arrow.

JR Gettler 56:01

That is going to be an arrow that you could shoot plenty of deer with.

Zakk Plocica 56:04

The ultimate arrow, yeah. I love the axis five mil. It is just an overall heavier GPI shaft. That's where a lot of people don't really are not a fan because it's just a heavier shaft, right? Too heavy for some. Right.

JR Gettler 56:14

Yeah, it's um basically on par with the same weight as the FMJ Max. So those are both about identical on weights.

Zakk Plocica 56:21

Yeah, it is. So you can really kind of almost interchange those arrows.

SPEAKER_00 56:24

Oh, I'm about to choke right now. I know, tickle in my throat.

Zakk Plocica 56:27

But dude, lots of good stuff this year as far as arrows go. Um, just lots of new new things on the hunting world. Yes.

JR Gettler 56:36

Uh, target side, yeah. Easton came out with the new Hero Pro 3.2s, right?

Zakk Plocica 56:42

Yeah, and I'm are they are they out already? Yes.

JR Gettler 56:46

They should be shooting. I've seen a bunch of guys shooting them, so um, or maybe they're just getting them from the target side. I'm not sure. But um it has been it should have been released. I know we're supposed to be getting some in to play with um hopefully soon.

Zakk Plocica 56:57

Yeah, I know uh we got some coming for you um for the target side of things. To me, it's just too much of a too premium of an arrow. It is that thing is a pretty penny, and all components are individual, right?

SPEAKER_00 57:10

Yes, yeah.

Zakk Plocica 57:10

So you got to buy the shaft, and you gotta buy all of your components. So if you're a true target archer, like somebody that really um I think does well and can justify that, that is gonna be your premium shaft, your top of the line. I mean, as far as consistency goes, I mean, you have to buy them in a dozen.

JR Gettler 57:28

Yep.

Zakk Plocica 57:28

So everything's sorted, they've got lot numbers on them so that they can identify everything is like the tightest tolerances you could ever imagine. So target archery, target guys, that is gonna be a killer shaft for you.

JR Gettler 57:40

Yep. Um, so yeah, it's gonna be only gluing points, uh, it's gonna be pin uh pin knocks and all that. Um, so very excited for it. It's gonna be um one continuous streamless, it's not gonna be a tapered shaft like with the um the X10, the regular X10s, those are the tapered shafts. So it should make it easier for tuning so that way if you're not cutting off too much, or you know, if you're cutting off a lot of the arrow, you'd have to cut off from the back end and then also the front end, so you're not messing with that taper. Yeah, um but a cool thing, um, Bodie Turner, he was actually shooting those 3.2s at the indoor rushmore rumble, and he won with a 3.2 millimeter arrow.

Zakk Plocica 58:15

Well, I mean, no surprise.

JR Gettler 58:17

Yeah, I mean Bodhi is he's a machine for a shooter, um, so yeah, no surprise there. But um, I've also seen Matias Fullerton, he's he's been shooting those a lot too. Yeah, the 3.2s, and he's also another phenomenal shooter. So I think he shot a 330x just practicing with those a couple weeks ago.

Zakk Plocica 58:32

So that's all you needed to buy them. You'll shoot a 300.

JR Gettler 58:35

Yep, yep. Buy them, you'll you shoot those 330x every day. It doesn't work like that, unfortunately.

Zakk Plocica 58:40

Um, so I want to take it back a second too. When we talk about building arrows, so you there's a lot of guys that um we'll go back to the target side in just a second, but when we talk about building arrows, guys that are buying like your 3000s, so your non-match grade or your gamer shafts, uh, one of the big things that guys are doing are cutting from the front and the rear, right? So if you're somebody that doesn't want to spend money on a premium like match grade shaft to true one thousandths, and you want to go through and you buy, you know, gamer shafts or even sports, spin them all yourself, you can take and cut those down from the front and the rear to make those things like a match grade shaft.

JR Gettler 59:18

Yeah, it will help a little bit doing that with the wobble. Um, or it can, it's not always a guarantee. Because I mean I've done that plenty of times where I've I've tried doing both ends, um, and then I've I'll just cut off from the front end typically. So um it's another thing that, yeah, once again, if you want to delve into that, by all means.

Zakk Plocica 59:33

See, yeah, see how they spin and see where you need to cut them from. Yeah, I've never really gone through that even with I've shot because I shot a lot of the Axis five mils that were non my match grade, they were the three thousandth straightness. Um, and dude, I just cut them from the front, never had an issue. Yeah, um, but pretty much all my stuff now, for the most part, I run a match grade. It just makes it easy for me. It's a peace of mind. You know, it's a 1000th. I cut from the front and they're good. But somebody that, if you do want to take the time, save a little bit of money, you can go that route, buy something that doesn't have that pre. Premium straightness and let's be realistic. A 3,000 straightness is still fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:03

Oh, yeah.

Zakk Plocica 1:00:04

Cut it, you know, look, look at it, spin it, see where how it spins, where you get a little bit of wobble, and you can cut from either side. Yeah. Just if you're somebody that's like OCD about logos, that's where you start to have your problem.

JR Gettler 1:00:16

Yeah, that's kind of me on that. Um, but yeah, I know it it's been a little while since I've done any testing with that, but uh me and Cody when he was still working here, um, we we were grabbing the three thousands uh access formulas and spinning those, and they were spinning one thousands.

Zakk Plocica 1:00:27

Yeah, well, that's the thing about Easton, and whenever they they say three thousands, it's got to spend three thousands or better. And typically they're always better.

JR Gettler 1:00:36

Yep. Yep, and it's just one that one little minute thing that that makes it from a match grade to a non-match grade. Right. And it's typically not the straightness, or if if anything, it's just barely there. Right, yeah. So there's that.

Zakk Plocica 1:00:48

But just want to drop that in there. That was one thing that popped in my head about you know, guys cutting them who who don't want to spend that premium on the match grade stuff.

JR Gettler 1:00:54

Yep, that's definitely a good point, though.

Zakk Plocica 1:00:56

So, all right, so back to the target side of things. We got the 3.2 um from Easton. And then, I mean, what else as far as target goes? Is there anything?

JR Gettler 1:01:04

Um, so ATA Carbon Express launched uh new Target Arrow. Not Carbon Express, Carbon Express, they are coming back.

Zakk Plocica 1:01:11

Um I'm I'm very curious about Carbon Express because we used to carry Carbon Express and they really, really dropped off. They did like hard. They did. And uh yeah, we have not had them in their shop in years.

Hit Inserts, Collars, And Durability

JR Gettler 1:01:23

Yeah, so um, yeah, I'm not sure if it's gonna be worth bringing back in. I mean, that's something we'll just have to talk about and kind of delve into um down the road. But they have a new target arrow, it's the Maxima XL, so it's gonna be a 23, 26, or 27 diameter, if I remember correctly. So they're getting um hopefully they'll be relevant again. I mean, uh, you know, it's carbon spirits has been around for a long time. That's probably one of the very first arrows I've ever shot, to be to be honest. And um, I mean, I'm hopeful that maybe they'll have a comeback.

Zakk Plocica 1:01:53

Yeah, I I think it's important, man. So we need multiple manufacturers, like I said earlier. Competition drives innovation, and we need these. As soon as you have somebody that dominates the market, that's it. They drive, they determine pricing, they desire determine as far as new product, you've got to have these other companies that are competitive. Right? There's I we've we've heard talks of like ultra, what is it, ultra areas? Yeah, ultras. Ultras, and I just don't think they're big enough to have an impact. I've heard good things about them. I've never personally messed with them. Um, I've read and seen a lot of good things with them, but we need more of these manufacturers in order to make things one price competitive for people and then continue to drive innovation. And you know, we've seen victory in Easton really dominate the market uh with a big drop-off from Black Eagle uh and Gold Tip. But I'm hopeful this year that we'll see some changes, maybe with some new stuff from Gold Tip. I haven't seen anything yet. I haven't either, no, and then Black Eagle coming back on the scene, hopefully, and then maybe Carbon Express. So it'll give people more options and uh continue to further the competition and maybe level the playing field.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:58

Right.

Zakk Plocica 1:02:59

As far as cost and everything goes, wise, and innovation and new products. Same thing with the bow side of things. We need all the different manufacturers in order to compete against each other for the people. So I think it's important. Yeah, so I'm very curious. I would like to see something cool from Gold Tip that's competitive. Um, and same thing with Black Eagle.

JR Gettler 1:03:17

Yeah, I mean, so yeah, like target side, you know, Carbon Specific has had a good arrow with the um so good I can't remember the name now. Oh my god. From who? Carbon or um gold tip. Um the X-cutters? Yes, X-cutters, yep. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:30

See, see look at you.

JR Gettler 1:03:31

Look at me. I'm a Tariq guy now. I know. Yeah, um, X-cutters done really well from what I've seen. Um, I have tested a little bit with X-cutters in the past, and I actually really like them a lot too. The 25s, that's typically what I like to run a lot of is 25s for indoor.

Zakk Plocica 1:03:44

It's just not there's not a lot on the hunting size. I mean, they have the airstrike and they have the hunter XTs, but I mean uh the Pierce Platinums, yeah, but you just don't we don't see a lot of them.

JR Gettler 1:03:52

Yeah, and then the Pierce LRT, like that kind of died off too. I noticed from from uh Gold Tip. So I'm not sure. Maybe it's just maybe our region doesn't do as well with it. Um, but yeah, I mean it's airstrike was huge at one point and phenomenal last two years, and then it just really died off this year. The black label, that was another really good arrow. That was a standard diameter that the black label quantum. Yeah, that was a four mil. Yep. So yeah, those were all really good for us, and then uh just they just disappeared.

Zakk Plocica 1:04:17

Yeah, I don't know. Interesting. We'll see how what this year holds. There's a lot of really great options already out. Um, again, um it and when we talk about the honey side, there's a ton of competition, and you've got so much, so many options to choose from from four mil to five mil to these new diameters to a six mil, six five. The you know, the options are endless, and you can really build them up with however you please based off whatever it is you're doing. Um, and I think um we'll see a lot of new stuff attacked this year. I anticipate a lot of new arrows with the VLRs, the HLRs, the five O's, uh, the rivals. I think I may I anticipate seeing a lot of victory this year.

JR Gettler 1:04:53

We typically do, yeah, we typically do see a lot of victory.

Zakk Plocica 1:04:55

But I anticipate seeing more because they have more what I would consider TAC build arrows, right? With just their lower GPIs, rep XVs, HLRs, VLRs, Rivals, Rival X's. Yeah, there's all those are all great arrows for TAC.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:09

Yep, 100%.

Zakk Plocica 1:05:10

So we'll see. Um, like I said, we've got a huge amount of inventory at Extreme Outfitters when it comes to East End Victory. Uh, we have a surplus of all of your favorite arrows. So if you need arrows and you want to buy arrows individually, you want free cut and glue, head over to the website extremeoutfitters.com, my shameless plug for the company. We sell them all. If you've got questions on arrow build too, you can always head over. You can call any of our techs. We got techs there six days a week from 12 to close, which is 7 p.m. Eastern Standard Time. So good stuff. You can call and talk to JR, dive in the weeds. But I would encourage more people to spend less time diving in the weeds and pick out a good arrow that they're comfortable with or that they think is going to work for them, build it out and shoot the thing. Make sure it's tuned to your bow and go out and spend time behind it.

JR Gettler 1:05:52

Yep. Yep. Take it from us. We have done the testing. I don't think you need to do it unless you, like I said, are really bored and want to just enjoy it. And do it.

Zakk Plocica 1:06:01

If you enjoy it, hey, there's nothing wrong with that, man. It's good. We need more people out there with more experiences. I can share them across social media. Yeah. So that's it. What else we got, JR? Anything new that we've missed? Anything crazy, pertinent? I don't think so.

JR Gettler 1:06:14

Um, let's want to talk about 3D. Have we finalized the 3D stuff? Oh, I'm not worried about that on here.

Zakk Plocica 1:06:20

No, no, I I mean I have, but not to uh I I I some things popped up I gotta consider. So we'll see for our 3D stuff. But you know, tax starts off in February, March?

unknown 1:06:34

Yeah.

Target Side: Easton 3.2 And Others

Zakk Plocica 1:06:35

March people are already outside shooting 3D stuff, so it's a great time. It's still nice out where we are in the south east at least. You can go out and spend time in the woods. Yeah, it's kind of crappy today. But it's it's get outside, continue shooting your bow after the season. Make sure you take your bow into your local shop, get it tuned up after the season, make sure your light, your site, and everything's still level, it's in tune, it's in time. Um, and then you know, don't put it down for the off season, spend time behind it before you know it, turkey season will be here, and then we'll be back in the game for you know, elk, white tail, and all that.

JR Gettler 1:07:05

Um, yeah, only thing I would say is um all the viewers, what are you gonna be shooting for attack or hunting? Um, so what arrow are you gonna be setting up? Love to hear it.

Zakk Plocica 1:07:14

Yeah, I'm I'm curious as well. Like I said, with all the different options, drop some comments, give us your actual build, what's the process look like, and what's your goal when it comes to building an arrow? Because everyone's like, oh, I shoot in an HLR at you know 419 grains. I'm I'm more curious on you know what the reason why you went with that arrow and how you built it out, what your build process is and why you ended up at the weight you did. You know, so more feedback, more information for people to kind of you know chime in on and put out there for people to read. Uh it's always good. You know, the more experiences you can get out there, the it helps drive people and push people in a specific direction. So give your MP your input is always appreciated. So I think that's it. We got to get ready, we got to open our shop up here. We're a little past due. So, as always, we appreciate you guys following along on the Archery project. Stay tuned. We got a lot more episodes uh in line for you know everything archery. So that's it, guys. Thanks for following. We'll see you guys in the next episode.