Long ATA Bows: I Was Wrong and Here's Why

I've been a short bow guy my whole life — 30, 31, maybe 32 inches max. But after hunting and shooting TAC events with my Mach 33 this past year, something shifted. This episode breaks down exactly why I've changed my mind on longer ATA bows, what finally pushed me over the edge, and whether the trade-offs are actually as big a deal as I always thought they were. 

We get into string angle, draw cycle, speed vs. forgiveness, arrow tuning sweet spots, what bow I'm building out for TAC this year (hint: it's a Mach 35), and which long ATA bows are worth looking at right now — including the new PSE Sicario 35. I also break down who the longer bow makes the most sense for and when sticking with a shorter ATA still has its place.

If you've been on the fence about trying a longer bow, this one's for you. 

Head over to extremeoutfitters.com for all your archery gear — use code ARCHERYPROJECT to save 10% off your order. Listen to the full episode now.

Key Topics Covered 

- Why Zakk changed his mind on long ATA bows after years of shooting 32" and under 

- The Mach 33 hunting season breakdown — 6-7 animals, all great shot placement 

- Ground hunting with a 33" bow and why the maneuverability concerns are mostly in your head 

- String angle: the single biggest reason to go longer - Speed vs. forgiveness — why chasing IBO numbers is a trap for most hunters 

- The 280-295 fps sweet spot for tuning and broadhead flight - Why 80 lbs on a long ATA bow draws completely different than a short bow 

- The Mach 35 TAC build: HHA Nitrix XV3, Epsilon rest, plans for Shrewd TRAK bars 

- Shooting the Mach 35 at TAC Tennessee with zero bars — and still shooting lights out 

- Bow-by-bow breakdown: PSE Mach 33/35, Hoyt RX10 Ultra, Mathews ARC 34, AX 333, Darton Tri-Tech 33/35 - New PSE Sicario 35 — longer brace height, more draw length options, same speed platform 

- Who should shoot long ATA and how draw length factors into the decision 

- Budget option: PSE Alaskan Pro at ~$700 as an entry-level long ATA bow 

- TAC Pennsylvania preview — Extreme Outfitters booth, custom arrow building on-site 

Gear & Products Mentioned - 

PSE Mach 33 - PSE Mach 35 (FDS cam, 80 lbs) - PSE Sicario 33 - PSE Sicario 35 (new) - PSE Alaskan Pro - Hoyt RX10 Ultra - Mathews ARC 34 - Mathews AX 333 - Darton Tri-Tech 33 - Darton Tri-Tech 35 - HHA Nitrix XV3 (vertical 3-pin, .019) - HHA Tetra - Hamskea Epsilon rest - Easton 5.0 arrows (~435 grains) - Easton FMJ Maxes (465 grains, hunting setup) - Shrewd TRAK bars (front and rear) - PSE 2-piece quiver 

🏹 Shop Extreme Outfitters for all of your archery & bowhunting needs: https://extremeoutfitters.com

Use code ARCHERYPROJECT to save 10%

Quick reads, pro tips, and the latest episodes—delivered straight to your inbox every week.
👉 Sign up here: https://thearcheryproject.com/

✅ Watch the video podcast here!       
https://www.youtube.com/@thearcheryproject

JOIN OUR COMMUNITY:

► Facebook: http://bit.ly/44UD7Vo
► Instagram: http://bit.ly/40Q2jLf

Transcript

Changing My Mind On ATA

Zakk Plocica 0:00

I've completely changed my mind. So, this has been a long time coming. This is over the last year. I've made some changes in bow options, in particular overall ATA lengths, right? So that's what I'm covering today. We're talking about longer ATA bows in this episode, just based off my experience this last year and how my my thought on longer bows has kind of changed a little bit. So thanks for joining me again on the Archery Project, guys. I'm your host, Zach Placeca. I've got a company called Extreme Outfitters. Some of you may have heard of it. It is one of the largest growing archery shops and suppliers in the country. We serve archers across the nation. So if you need any archery equipment, head over to the website extremeoutfitters.com. Use the code ArcheryProject and save some money. That's my little spiel. But getting into it, guys, um, yeah, ATA lengths, right? This last year has really changed my thought process on the ATA or overall axle to axle length bows that I kind of enjoy shooting. I've always been a short axle to axle bow guy, right? Primarily, I'm a whitetail hunter. That's what I do. I hunt out of a stand, I hunt off the ground for the most part. Um, I live out on the east coast, so that's kind of what we do. The woods here are thick, they're nasty. Um, yeah, and I always viewed a short axle to axle bow as the ideal bow for me for that. And for the most part, if that's the only thing that you're doing, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. But, you know, I do a lot of different things. I enjoy hunting, but I also just enjoy shooting extreme long distance, right? Total archery events, some 3D stuff here and there. And um, the longer I've been doing this, the more I've done this, the more I like to shoot one bow, right? I just gravitate towards one, maybe two bows, um, and stick with those bows because I notice whenever I start going from bow to bow to bow, they all feel and shoot a little bit different. And I'm just not quite as consistent or as good. And I kind of have to relearn the bow a little bit. That's just me, right? I'm not the best shooter in the world. Um, so anytime I put a bow down for any length of time, I feel like my my technique kind of falls apart as well. So the same thing with the bow. So I've gotten the the more I've been doing this, the longer I've been doing this, the more I want to kind of shoot just one, maybe two bows that are very similar. And again, my thought process has changed really over this last year, right? I shot the Mach 30. I've always shot 30, 31, maybe 32-inch bows forever. I think a 32, 31, 32 is a sweet spot for most people. Um, if you're primarily hunting, especially whitetail stuff, is which we've always talked about. But more recently, I've gravitated towards a longer bow. And when we talk about longer bows, right, I'm talking 33 inches plus. Anything under 33 inches, a sub-33-inch bow, I would consider a shorter axle-to-axle bow. Um, and this past year, I shot a Mach 33, right? That's probably the longest bow that I I've ever owned and shot, like religiously. Like everything else has been 32 and under. And I got that bow and I shot it, and I really enjoy shooting it, and I shot it well. And it was gonna just be a total archery build um bow for me last year. And it didn't. I carried it over the same arrow setup and everything into my hunting season. And man, I just had a really great season with it. Like I was very accurate, I was very consistent. Every animal I shot, I shot six or seven different animals last year. All my shots were really good. Shot placements were good. I just feel like I couldn't miss with it. And uh, you know, I was a little concerned, you know, maybe it's gonna be a little bit more difficult because I hunted off the ground quite a bit too. I killed a couple, two animals, two deer off the ground. Um, one sitting and then one kind of spot and stock style here on the East Coast. And uh, you know, I was concerned it was gonna be an issue, right? It's a little too much bow, man. The cam's gonna be in the dirt when I'm sitting down. I didn't have any of those issues. It was all like fabricated in my mind. But the pot the issues are are potentially there. But the way I'd set myself up, I set myself up for success, and I didn't have those issues. Uh, so it got me thinking, I was like, man, I really enjoy shooting this. I don't know if I'm ever gonna go back to a shorter bow because I can do everything I ever want to with this longer ATA, right? And I think the trade-off is worth it, right? When we talk about short bows, we talk about like mobility, it's a little bit lighter, um, it's easier to get in and out. Uh, you know, a couple small things, but when you go to that longer bow, it's easier to shoot, it's more forgiving, it's more stable, the string angle is better, the draw cycle is typically better. So the trade-off to me at this point is worth it, man. And um, like I said, it's taking me a long time to get here. I've always been a short bow guy. And this year, man, really changed it for me. And I went to that 33, and I don't think I'm gonna be looking back solely based off everything I do. Now, this is not the case for everybody. I'm talking for my own experience, right? What I do, what I enjoy doing. And like I said, I enjoy doing a lot of different things with the bow, not just primarily hunting at this point. You know, I really enjoy, we go to a couple total archery events every year. We shoot some 3D stuff, and I like being able to shoot, you know, more so one bow than uh, you know, a bunch of different bows. I once I start shooting a bow well, it's like, I don't want to put this down and go back to anything else. And that's what's happened. And um, dude, I got on that 33 and uh absolutely fell in love with it and just shot it extremely well. It was just easy to shoot. And I was like, huh, maybe I don't necessarily need that shorter bow, right? Like I've always told myself. And um I think it stands true. And like I said, I think the trade-off is worth it because when you look at it, like going from a 30 to a 33, like the weight difference is minimal. Like, let's be realistic, guys. Like, let's call it within a half pound. That's not anything crazy to sweat about. I mean, I think we split hairs with a lot of it. And then we talked about mobility, right? The mobility side of things, like getting in and out, your different shot angles um out of a whether it's a saddle or sitting on a stand. Those issues I I don't think really exist. Um, and they or at least they didn't for me. You know, I know guys who are shooting 62-inch bows out of you know, saddles, um, out of hang-ons, and they don't have any issues, right? So with going to a 33-inch bow, there was no issue from for me with that either. Uh, and like I said, I think a lot of it is just a mental thing that we have to get past. And once you you start shooting the bow, you know, you it's it's just easier to shoot. Um, and I honestly think it's more enjoyable to shoot because it makes shooting easier, in my opinion. Because, you know, like hunting scenario based, it's a high stress situation whenever the opportunity presents itself. Right? Like it's adrenaline, there's hormones dumping, there's all these different variables and factors that go into drawing on an animal and putting a shot on it. And, you know, we've always said it, or it's you want the most forgiving setup you can possibly have. And that includes your arrow setup and your bow setup. And if you can shoot a little bit longer bow and it's a little bit easier to shoot a little bit more forgiving, maybe it's a little bit more cumbersome. I don't necessarily think that it is. I think the trade-off is worth it because I think your recovery rate's probably gonna be better, your shot placement's better. Um, it makes tracking an animal easier because everything is just aligned and your your overall capability increases a little bit. You know, I'm not saying jump off the deep end and um, you know, go to a 38-inch or 40-inch bow. Like let's let's be realistic. Like with I would say within hunting ATA lengths, and I think for most people that's between a 30 and a 35-inch bow for the most part. Um, but I'm grabbing graduate graduating, gravitating more and more toward that longer bow. Um, one of the big takeaways um for me it was just the string angle, just how much better it really was with that little bit longer bow. Um with a 30-inch bow, I always have to, even though my my draw length's only 28 and a half inches, um, and I just have to kind of duck my head in a little bit more. Nothing crazy, but it's there. But then when I started shooting that longer bow, it just felt more natural coming back to anchor. It was a little bit easier, it was a little bit easier to repeat. Um, and it just felt more natural. Like my body mechanics and my posture and everything was just a little bit better uh with it. So yeah, I was um I'm pretty sold on it. Now, um there are obviously there's trade-offs, trade-offs whenever you go to the longer bow. Like another one is speed, right? Like I and I noticed we've come back full circle. It seems like there's like there's like a rotation on these things, right? Heavy arrows, light arrows, fast bow, slower bow, whatever it is. Um, but we're in we're in the speed era again, it seems like, right now, which I think people um really split hairs with this as well. Like all these bows are fast now, man. Like, let's be realistic. Like they're like all like 330 plus for the most part, right? 327 to 357 feet per second is the the window for IBO or for speeds for these bows. So they're all performance-driven machines, man, and they're all putting up really good numbers. And uh, I think we really just chasing speed a little bit too much to some extent, right? Some of these bows, which I'm not saying speed is not bad. I'm always I'm you know, we we need to find that that happy medium. And I think some people push it to the extreme uh a little bit where they try to get as much as they possibly can speed-wise out of the bow. And it's not necessarily a gain, in my my opinion. One, because it's less like the tuning for an arrow out of a speed that's shooting 340, 350 feet per second is much, much more difficult. Tuning that bow to an arrow, especially with the broadhead, is can be a nightmare, especially if you're not a good shooter. Um, so when guys are like really chasing that, I'm kind of like, you know, if you're a good shooter and you everything's perfect, you're on a flat range, it makes sense, right? But maybe not necessarily for a hunting scenario where maybe your footing's off a little bit, you don't have that perfect position, you're bent a little bit, you're in a weird position, and your shot execution isn't ideal. If there's any errors within the shot process, they're amplified, especially whenever you have a bow that's less forgiving and shooting that fast and an arrow that's going that fast. It just does not mesh well, I think, necessarily for a bow hunter. Um, and that's my opinion. But again, I'm not the best shooter in the world. I need all the advantages I can get when it comes to forgiveness, stability, and just shootability. So, you know, going to that longer bow, it is a little bit slow slower. Is it bad? No, it's a couple feet per second different. It's nothing major. You can still manipulate these bows to shoot, in my opinion, as like a hunting rig, that 280 to 295 feet per second, which I think is a sweet spot for tuning. It's just that they tune. Why is that the sweet spot? That's a question, right? Why is that why is 280 to 295-ish feet per second that window the sweet spot? They tune really well, they tune easy, arrows are easier to tune. Um, your fixed blade broadheads are easier to tune within that speed window. Slower is really easy, but you just don't gain as much performance. So that window, I think, is ideal for most people. And when you start pushing north of that, that's where you start running your it into your issues. Like you can get it to shoot and tune, but if it's not perfect, if you're not perfect, it shows. So that that's a sweet spot, I think, for most bow hunters when we come to setting up and tuning a bow. 280 to 290-ish feet per second, money, right? That's where I like my bows to shoot. Um, and you can do that with these longer bows too, right? And you don't even have to shoot high poundage. That's the other thing, though, with the the longer ATA bows. The high poundage bows are so easy to shoot and draw. 80 pounds on a 33 or 35 versus 80 pounds on a 30, dude, all day long. It's so easy and so smooth, and it just feels good. So, trade-offs definitely there. But yeah, back to the tuning side of things, man. Get the bow to shoot 280s, 290 feet per second. Um, it's just going to tune well. The performance there, your your pin gap is nothing crazy, and you can manipulate speed that way by obviously you can't manipulate your draw length. Your draw length is what it is. You can change it slightly, but you don't want to overdo it. Um, and then poundage, you can only do so much with poundage, but you can manipulate arrow weight, right, to get the speed you want. And I would say for a lot of people, you have a large window as far as overall arrow weight goes, right? 400 to 500 grains. I mean, anywhere in there, especially for a whitetail hunter, is probably pretty good if you're trying to meet those speed goals. That's what I do. I build an arrow based around a speed that I want to get for hunting. And again, for me, for the most part, for my bows to be within that window is 440 to 465, 470 grains. That's usually where I end up. And it's a very average, easy arrow build, um, but it performs, it works well, um, and it tunes very, very well. So there's a lot of things you can manipulate, or there are certain things you can manipulate to get the speeds up out of your bow. Um, if with going with those longer ATAs, those longer brace heights, right? Because longer brace height, more forgiving, slower bow, longer bow, slower bow. Usually what it equates to. Um, so there's that. Um, and yeah, getting into the the actual brace height side of things, you know, we talk about forgiveness. The longer bows always have a longer brace height. Um, again, which goes into the loss of speed and the forgiveness. So lose a little bit of speed, game a little bit of forgiveness and ease of shootability. At this point, for me, it's it's worth it. And um yeah, I I enjoy it, man. Um and we we talk about everyone knows like I'm I'm a big like believer in like high poundage bows. Like I like I like shooting 80-pound bows. I mean, that's what majority of my bows are. Um, and that's kind of what I've shot. And and with the change with the improved technology, right? They're just so much more efficient and so much easier to draw. Like it's not even a big deal at this point, man. Like an 80-pound bow, they're they're everywhere, they're all over tack. Like tons of people are shooting 80-pound bows, and now 90-pound bows, which that AX90, I don't know if you guys have shot that thing. Oh, it's a beast, dude. It shoots really, really well, but the draw cycle is stiff. Stiff for me at least. There's some there's some beasts of some dudes out there that were shooting them at tack. Um, I can't remember the one kid, uh, the one guy from he was um he was over at the dialed booth in uh Tennessee. Forgive me if I can't remember your name, man. But he had an 890-pounder and he shoots it like it's no ain't no thing. And I'm pretty sure it's turned up. Um, just a unit. Um, a little bit too much for me, man. But I like I'm an 80-pound guy, especially with the majority of the bows I shoot. Uh, and I think the longer ATA bows just make that easier. And then you still, like I said, you get a little bit higher poundage, you get more speed out of the bow. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You guys know that know the deal. Um, so my Mach 33 hunted with it, fantastic. Absolutely loved it. Uh, pretty, pretty standard setup. Uh, I don't have it in here. Um, but I ran an HHA um Tetcher on it, I ran an Epsilon on it, uh, a two-piece PSE quiver, and I ran a uh a front bar for hunting, and then I ran a rear bar whenever I was front and rear bar whenever I was shooting for attack. But more recently this year, I built a Mach 35. Like I never have owned a bow that long. And I was like, you know what? Let me try it. What's it all about? Target guys do it. All the target guys run long bows. Let me get a 35. Built it, buddy. Yeah, I don't know that um I'm gonna be able to put that bow down. That bow is just fun to shoot, man. And I don't even have it set up fully. Like, I got this 35, it's 80 pounds, right? I you draw this bow back, it is like butter. It's the Mach 35 with an FDS cam on it, 80, 80 something pounds, and it is the smoothest drawing bow like ever. It's amazing, man. It just feels good. Um, and that 35-inch ATA, the string angle on it is insane. It's amazing. It just it's like the 33 was fantastic. Like this 35, I'm like, oh, it's it's perfect. Like it feels amazing. Like my everything just feels right. The more I shoot it, it doesn't seem like as big of a bow whenever I first picked it up. Now, don't get me wrong, it's a 35-inch ATA bow. It's a lot of bow, but it's not not manageable. It just feels good, like it's crazy. I was super impressed, man. And I don't know that I'm necessarily gonna hunt with it. One, it's black, like I'm not a black bow guy. Like I built it specifically for attack. Said that about 33 as well, though. I'm not a black bow guy, um, especially in the woods. I like my bows to disappear. I like solid earth tone colors. But dude, after shooting it, I'm like, oh, is this gonna be my one bow for the year? Am I gonna bow hunt with this bow too? Because it absolutely bangs. Like I just shoot it really, really well. Tell you how I got it set up. So it's got a uh HHA Nitrix X V3 on it. So it's got the vertical three pin, micro adjustable vertical three pin. Love the sight, right? The housing on it's amazing. Pins are nice and bright. The housing's good and big, especially for like a bow hunter. Just great. 19,000 fiber uh pins, love it, right? Looks good on the bow. I've got an epsilon on that um bow as well for my arrow rest. I'm a I'm a hamski guy. I love the hamski rests. Um, I love the limb driven stuff. They you can pretty much put them on the bow and they're like set up, like it's amazing. And then when you need to do any tuning with it, like micro adjustability within that rest is easy. And they're bulletproof, dude. Like you can beat those things to death and they won't fail. Like that's what I like, that's why I like them so much. So I got that on there. Um, I don't have any bars yet, though. And I don't have a quiver on it because I ran it for tack. Um, and uh I shot it without bars at Total Archer Challenge in Tennessee like a week or so ago. And dude, no bars, and this bow just holds on target really, really well. I can't imagine how well I'm gonna shoot it whenever I actually put some bars on it. And I'm gonna I'm gonna put some real bars on this thing, right? Like I'm not gonna just put a like a little 10 like I normally do, like a 10-inch bar. I'm gonna put like a 12 or 15 inch on the front. I'm gonna run a rear bar, I think. Like an if I run a 15, I'll probably run a 12. If I run a 12, I'll probably run a 10. Um, and just see if I can just build this bow to be like a like precision-driven machine, man. Just like bulletproof, holds on target, you know, shoots itself. That's my goal with it. Um, because I gotta go to PA in like well, I gotta go to PA in like a week, dude. Uh, so I probably better get on the ball with that. Um, but dude, I shot it so well in Tennessee without any bars and really without like fully setting it up and dialing it in and really fine-tuning the feel of it. But I shot it extremely well, man. Once again, I've been to all these tack events, never lost an arrow. Fingers crossed, I can maintain that this year up in PA. Um but I just shot it extremely well and it was really fun to shoot. And again, it's an 80-pound bow, but it draws like nothing you could ever imagine. It's so incredibly smooth. Um, and I that's I think stands true for most of your long ATA bows, right? Um the longer the bow, it's just a smoother draw cycle, it's easier. Uh letting the bow down, incredibly easy. It just feels really good. The speeds on it, yeah, it's a it's a slower bow, right? I think IBO on it's like 327. Guess what? I built an arrow to do exactly what I want. I built an Easton um excuse me, 5.0. It's like 435 grains, and it's shooting like 290 some feet per second. Perfect for total archer challenge. I got a ton of I got all the distance I needed to get out of the sight. You know, if I go to my bottom pan, I can shoot like 140 or 150 yards with the thing. So awesome, dude. This bow just like like I don't know, dude. It just pounds, man. It's it's fun. And it's it's really got me thinking, man, like, am I ever gonna go back to a short bow? My Mach 30 is for sale. I'm getting rid of it. Like, I don't know that I'll I'll go um that short of a bow again just because a 33, like great for everything. And then that 35, dude, it might be great for everything too. It just it's just makes shooting that much easier. And the big takeaway for me is like when it comes to like those high pressure, like not perfect scenarios, like hunting scenarios, or even like total archery challenge, right? We're shooting on the side of a mountain where footing's really off, and I'm not perfect. The bow just allows me to not be perfect and corrects for me almost. Like the arrows just seem to find home. Um, and again, that's not because I'm a fantastic shooter. Like, yeah, I enjoy shooting a bow and I shoot a bow quite a bit. Um, but it's just easier. Uh, and I and like I said, I'm really excited to really manipulate this bow a little bit more to make it shoot even better. Uh excuse me, I'm gonna run some bars on it. I don't know what I'm gonna run, man. I was looking at running some track bars from Shrewd, the new ones. I really, really like them. Um they've been a really hot seller, you know, they've got the ability to um tune-orient the actual stabilizer itself. So you can, you know, depending on how that the feedback you get from the bar, if you want it to run stiffer, you want it to, you know, be a little bit weaker and absorb a little bit more vibration or settle your pen a little bit faster, you can manipulate that bar. Super, super cool bars. I was looking at doing those, um, but they're kind of hard to get right now. So I don't know what I'm gonna do or what bars I'm gonna get for this event. So we'll see. I'm still playing with it, uh, but I'll hopefully have something for PA. So if you guys are going to PA, we'll be in PA. Um, I'd love to see you guys there. Come and hang out with us. We'll have a booth, we'll be right beside Easton, uh, helping the guys out at Easton. And we'll be custom building arrows out there. So if you guys need arrows while we're in PA, come see us. We're custom building arrows out there. At least that's the plan. We got some guys that are gonna do it, hold it down, make it happen. Um, so come by and see us at PA. I would love to talk and hang out with you guys, maybe shoot some of you, shoot with some of you guys on the practice course, hopefully. Um, and hopefully I'll be able to do a little bit of shooting myself on one of the courses with some of our guys. We'll see. Um, but yeah, but you know, interesting enough about these long ATA bows, right? Like that's what I've seen. That's what we sell majority of. We sell more long bows, I think. Longer bows, not long bows, um, longer ATA bows than we do short bows here. And we're in a weird state too, right? In Eastern North Carolina, um, primarily whitetail, uh, very short shots. And uh our primary hot sellers are longer ATA bows, 33 to 35. Like we saw a ton of them. Sicario 33, ARC 34, Mach 35s, RX10 Ultras, like all of those bows do really, really well for us. Um, AX333s, hot sellers, right? Longer ATA bows. And I always find it found it kind of odd, um, just because of where we are. Um, but you know, the more I've played with these longer bows, I get it. I'm like, I see it, guys. But it's funny enough, I talked to some of the guys within the industry, some of the manufacturers, and I was like, man, like Matthew specifically, I talked to them in uh Indiana, uh, and I was like, hey, is you know, is we all I see is Arc 34 is everywhere. Is that your number one seller? Surprisingly enough, no, the Arc 30 is so there's people the manufacturers are still selling more short bows, um they say, than actual the longer bows, which is surprising. Um, but obviously, most a lot of your guys are bow hunters and um they're not buying the longer bows, I suppose. Um, but I found it pretty interesting. I really thought, especially with Matthews, the Arc 34 would be the number one seller this year, because it's probably the number one seller for us. Uh, and it's they said this the short bows are still outsell the the longer bow. So kind of interesting. Um is what it is. Uh the other thing, too, like obviously I don't have a long draw length, 28 and a half inches. Um the longer ATA bows is I think a no-brainer for you guys that have longer ATA bows or longer draw lengths, excuse me. Um just the string angles better. Obviously, they go to longer draw lengths. That's a big one. If you're a 32-inch guy, you don't want you're not going to get a bow that's 30 inches. But I think uh a good thing to consider too is like when you're looking at bows, is like look at your draw length. If you have a 30-inch draw length, you don't want a bow under 30 inches ATA, I don't think personally. If you've got a 31-inch draw length, I don't think you want anything under 31 inches. Like at least match your draw length with the overall length of the bow. And honestly, probably a little bit more, right? If I'm a 31-inch draw length guy, I want the probably the longest bow I can get, a 33, 35, just for string angle, just for comfort when shooting it. Um just so you're not ducking your head into that string and you're not all bunched up and whatnot. Uh so there's a couple other things I would consider, especially consider, especially you long jaw guys, just look at those longer bows. Obviously, some of them you have to, but even, you know, if you're a you know 29-inch guy, man, I mean, I would, and you're a short bow guy, man, I would give some of these longer bows a just a shot just to see. Maybe it's not your cup of tea. Maybe you're just primarily focus is hunting. So you definitely, so it's not something that's within your wheelhouse, or you don't want it, which I understand completely. I'm just giving you guys my experience, man. I think um there's gonna be a lot more that I do with these longer bows versus, you know, swapping over for a short bow for, you know, whitetail hunting or whatever type of hunting I end up getting to do this year. Uh, I think I'm gonna stick with at least a minimum of 33. Um there's just not enough of a weight difference, man, or performance loss going to that long bow, like I said, that longer bow, like I said. The the you just gain so much. I mean, as far as just ease of shooting and just stability out of it, that it's worth sacrificing a little bit more speed. Now, if you're super like, and and long ATA is relevant to draw length as well. I guess I should mention that. Like someone that has a 26-inch draw length, a 30-inch bow is or 31-inch is what I would consider a longer ATA for them. Um, personally, the string angle is gonna be really good. Um, I mean, and then you have a you know a draw length that that's that's that short, and you go to a 35, you just I think you lose too much when we talk about speed, um, and you don't gain enough in performance and shootability. So you really need to consider your draw length when we look at these things. Uh so it's all in relation to you, your stature, your specs, your you know, your draw length and what you're shooting and what your goals are. Um but interesting enough, you know, if you're somebody who who definitely does a lot of different things, right? Like if you're like me and you're like you want to do, you know, you want to shoot total archery challenge, you want to shoot through local 3D events, you want to also bow hunt, I would look at, I would air air on the side of a little bit longer, and not saying you need to go off the deep end and get a 35, but like 32, 33, if you're within my draw length range, 28, 29, that little bit longer ATA, it's a great hybrid bow build. And if you're somebody that's just getting into this thing and you're looking for advice on like what ATA length should I get, if you're a new archer, a little bit longer ATA is just easier to shoot. And then if you're not sure exactly what direction you're gonna go as far as archery goes, I would shoot a little bit longer bow, man. Maybe it's a little bit slower for you. No big deal. Manipulate it with arrow weight. Um, but then you it gives you the opportunity to shoot that extreme distance easier, right? Again, because the shootability of the bow is just there. It's a little bit more stable, uh, it's less torquey. Uh, you're not gonna induce as much hand torque at full draw as some of the shorter bows, which are a little bit harder. The brace height's a little bit harder, so the air or a little bit longer, so the arrow leaves the string earlier. So it's more forgiving, less time on the string for you to induce any errors within your shot process, which is gonna, you know, be amplified downrange. Um, so if you're somebody that's just getting into this, man, I would definitely consider looking at the longer ATA bows versus Aaron, you know, going to that short bow right away. Um, you know, and if you're not looking to you don't want to spend a lot of money on this because you're just getting into it and you want that little bit longer bow, dude, look at the Alaskan Pro. Like that's a 33-inch ATA and that bow pounds. It's a mid-price point bow. It's absolutely phenomenal, man. Um I think the Ascend is a little bit longer ATA as well. Um, I think the PSE Force is a 31. Um, but dude, the like if you don't want to spend a lot of money and you want to get into this with that little bit longer, easier, more forgiving shooting bow, the the Alaskan Pros, it's a banger, man. It's a great bow. Um, good entry level price, it's mid price point, it's gonna be in those 700-ish dollars, I believe. But it's again longer ATA, longer brace height. It just shoots and performs really, really well. And it gives you the option to really, you know, maybe hunting's not your thing, and you do a lot more target stuff. You could deck it out like a target rig. So a lot of different options there. Um, so I mean, that's kind of the the thing for you know who should shoot long ATA bows. I mean, I think it's really up to anybody. Um, but again, this is my experiences over these last years. I've kind of transitioned and really changed my thought process on it. Um, just based solely off what I do. If I was only bow hunting, though, like just white tail hunting, I think I would still stick with a shorter bow. Um, just because you know the shots are all within 30 yards. Like I don't, I'm not gonna improve my accuracy at 30 yards that much greater from going to a 30 to a 35. It's like it's just not gonna happen. Um so and I can shoot a little bit heavier arrow um because the bow's a little bit faster. But that's splitting hairs at this point, man. It's all um yeah, I I don't know, man. I think uh I think I'm I'm pretty sold on the the longer bow though. But yeah, if if you're solely just like that's your thing is just bow honey, you know, it makes sense, especially if you're within that 30-inch draw length. You want a bow that's got them, you know, the maneuverability, just that lightweight. Um it makes sense. But if you're somebody that again that does a lot of different things, I would definitely encourage you go in a shop and shoot some of these longer bows, even if they weren't they weren't within your wheelhouse initially, give them a shot just to see how they actually feel. Um, because you might be surprised, man, you might really enjoy it. And uh I I would definitely encourage you, like get over the speed thing. Like, don't just look at it if the bow has an IBO of 335 and you were looking at a shorter bow that has an IBA, IBO of 343, dude, it doesn't matter. Like it's that's not a big enough deal to make a difference, right? Shoot the bow, feel the bow, see how it holds, shoot, see how it performs for you, right? How the grip is, how the string angle is, the valley, the draw cycle versus maybe that little bit shorter bow, and then make a good decision, you know, based off that. Um speed is great to know. I I you know I want to I want a bow to shoot plenty fast. I don't want a bow shooting 220 feet per second. Um, but I I want it within those 280 plus feet per second, and all the bows nowadays are pretty much doing that if you're within like my draw length. Um, and then you know, you get the little bit higher poundage bows if you can handle it, especially at the longer ATAs, like that higher poundage is just easier to shoot. The draw cycle's fantastic on them, on all of them, I would say. The arc 34 at a higher poundage, um, dude, is is is great, especially with that SWX Z mod. Yeah, you lose, you know, you go to that Z mod, you lose like what is it, like three to five feet per second. Nothing major, but it's that bow, that bow pounds too, man. And then your RX10 Ultra, same thing, longer ATA, um, easier to shoot, really great stink string angle, and uh it just it they just pound. Um absolutely good shooting bows. I did, just so you guys know, shoot some dartons in Tennessee as well. First time I've ever shot a dart and bow, right? We don't have in our shop, not yet, anyways. We're making progress, so we'll eventually we'll be able to get some reviews up for you guys. Potentially, I shot a Tri-Tech 33. You guys are right, man. You guys are right, dude. The the and I shot it at 87 pounds, and it's just it's smooth, buddy. It's the technology within those bows are fantastic, the draw cycle on them is awesome. Um, so it's another contender out there. Um, a lot of great options this year, especially in that 33 plus ATA lengths. Everybody's got a good bow, I think, within those lengths at this point. PSE's Mach 33, Mach 35, um, Hoyt's RX 10 Ultra AX33, and then the Matthews Arc 34, like those are your major players. Uh, and then you've got the Dart, Darton Tri-Tech 33 and the 35. I shot 35 too. Amazing. They all feel good, dude. Lots of good options in those longer bows. If you haven't shot them, I would definitely encourage you to check them out. Get behind one. Don't, you know, don't write them off because they're a little bit longer. Um, just give them a shot, give them an opportunity and see what you think. And give me some feedback too. Like, what is your guys' thoughts on the longer ATA bows as far as even like just hunting? Are you a short bow, die by that kind of guy? Are you somebody that's, you know, you you prefer a longer bow, even at a little bit shorter draw length, just because it shoots better? Um, you know, drop some comments and uh let me know because I'm very interested to hear from you guys and your thought process on the longer ATA um option that are out there because it just seems like I see more and more of them out there and less and less of the short bows. Um so yeah, lots of good stuff going on, guys. Like I said, we will be in Total Archery Challenge, Pennsylvania, and not this weekend, but next weekend. So I hope to see a lot of you guys there. Come hang out with us at our booth on the practice range. We'll be out there. Um, it's gonna be a great time. PA is always an awesome event, and you will see me out there with that Mach 35, putting in some reps, hopefully making some good shots. Hopefully, I have some bars on it by then. Fingers crossed, I don't know that I will or not. We shall see. Um, but I'll be out there with, I'll be shooting some Easton 5.0s, like I said. I got the I think I got 50 grains of brass in them with the collar with the 100 grain point. And I think total weight on them is like 435. And they fly like darts, man. Um, fly really, really good. Oh, speaking of long ATA lengths, I forgot. Did you guys hear about the PSE Sicario 35? If you hadn't, you guys know PSE introduced the Sicario this year, right? It's a 33-inch ATA, five and a quarter inch brace height, mid-length, you know, longer ATA, super short brace height, the bow pounds. It's a speed bow, right? The best speed bow you will ever shoot, but regardless, it's still a speed bow, a little bit more difficult to shoot because that brace height is so short. Yes, you have your full draw stability and that dynamic brace height, but it's still a harder-to-shoot bow. A lot of dudes shooting it, it shoots really good for a lot of guys. But if you're someone that's like, ah, it's just a little too short, PSE has answered the call with the new Sicario 35. So it's a 33-inch, uh, it's the same 33-inch ATA riser, but it's got the 35 limbs on it. So your draw, you get more draw length out of it, you get a longer brace height, so and you get what they're saying is really good speeds. So you got a um a Sicario that's going to be a little bit easier, more forgiving bow. That sounds like a win to me. I think if that's like I haven't shot one, we've already sold one. One of the dudes here has already picked one up. It came in right away. They're come, they're shipping incredibly fast. But he got one, he's shooting with it, shooting lights out, and really enjoys it. And he's a long draw guy. He's like a 31, 31 and a half inch draw length. Um, so you get more draw length out of it. And dude, you get the speeds with it, and you now you get the forgiveness because of the increased brace height and dynamic brace height. And you guys all know PSC bows are are, you know, they won bow of the year the last couple years. Um they they pound, man, and this is going to be a really good option, uh, I think. And I'm kind of bummed that they came out with a little bit later because I wanted I'd kind of be interested in shooting one a little bit longer. You know, speed you can shoot a heavier arrow. Um, I just I'm curious to see how it actually feels and performs and how easy it is to shoot versus maybe like a Mach 33, Mach 35, uh, and put it up against the standard Sicario. Uh very interesting, uh, but I anticipate that being a hot seller just because of all the performance that you get from it. FDS cam, um, you know, Sicario build, a little bit longer. I think it's like six and a quarter inch brace height. So a little bit longer brace height. So again, a little bit more for forgiving. And, you know, if the speeds are there, that's a that's a nasty combo, man. So uh yeah, be on the lookout for those. I think they're in the lineup at this point. It's not just a standard order or special order, excuse me. So you should be able to get them, no problem. I'm sure we'll be stocking, stocking them at Extreme Outfitters. Um uh just because uh it's gonna be, I think, a pretty hot item. And I think honestly, it's probably gonna be a better design than the Sicario, or not a better design, but outsell the Sicario if those are the specs on it. I think it's gonna be a banger of a bow. Um, but yeah, that's it. There's just another one in the lineup. There's just so many good options, man. If you're short bow guy, a lot of great options. But if you're a long ATA guy, dude, there's a ton of really great options this year. Um, and then some bows that fall kind of in between. So yeah, that's it, guys. That's what we're talking about. I've changed my mind, and I'm not I'm not mad about it either. Sorry, I was a little slow with it. Um, but you know, you know, we get set in our ways, right? But as long as you're willing to adapt and change, things could change over time, right? Our opinions on things change and our you know, our thought process on things change, and I'm not an anti-short ATA bow guy now, so don't mistake me for that. But I just do enjoy shooting that longer bow more now. It just feels better. I'm just a better shot with it, it's more forgiving for me. Um I like it. That's what I've got to say about it. Uh did I miss anything? Um, let's see. No, I don't think so, man. Lots of gains. Are they worth it? In my opinion, yes. You gain the gains are you know worth the the sacrifice in speed and maneuverability and overall weight are worth it going with the longer bows for me personally, man. Just easier to shoot, more forgiving, more fun. I can shoot out the distance. I love shooting far. Like that's like my favorite thing is just to go outside and shoot my bow far. And I can do that with these long bows way easier than I can. Don't get me wrong, I stretch out the 30. Like I've shot some serious distance with a 30, but the the 33 and 35 is just a little bit easier for me to shoot. Um, and maybe it's because I'm becoming a better shooter too. So there's that to take into uh into account because I do shoot a lot more and really focus on my fundamentals and technique. Uh, but it does just seem to make it a little bit easier. The grip, the bow's just a little less torky, it feels good in the hand, um, pounds. So that's my spiel on it, guys. You know, thanks for listening. Uh, as always, ATA overall ATA lengths. Are you a short bow guy? Are you a long bow guy? Are you a hybrid bow build kind of guy? What do you prefer? What are you looking for whenever it comes to building out a bow for your goals? Drop in the comments, let me know. As always, you know, appreciate you guys following along. If you need anything archer related, head over to the website, extremeoutfinters.com. That is my company. Um, we sell all the archery things, anything you could ever want. We sell arrows individually. Um you name it, we've got it. All the releases, all the sites, all the latest and greatest. Got a ton of killer new sites, limited edition stuff that is on the website, all the new stuff, the new sites, which I'm gonna do a podcast episode on that, the 2026 bow sites coming up. So stay tuned for that. If you need anything, head over there. Use the code Archery Project, save you some money on all of your orders. And if you got questions, remember we're real people. We've got real techs. I've got guys available Monday through Saturday. If you got questions on anything, give the guys a call at the shop, and we and the guys there would be happy to answer any questions and walk you through anything that you need. Um, that's what we're about. Customer services, what I built my brand around. And uh, if you ever have a bad experience, let me know so I can hammer the guys. Um, you know, keep them in check. Appreciate you guys. Appreciate you following along as always. Thanks for listening. That's another uh episode of the Archer Project. We'll see you guys in the next episode.