The Final Cut
The Final Cut is a bold and insightful podcast exploring the latest in film and television. Hosted by Professor John Cook and filmmaker Charlotte Bjuren, each episode dives into new releases, classic gems, and the stories shaping screen culture today.
CONNECT WITH US:
The Final Cut website: https://the-final-cut-podcast.b12sites.com/index#services
NEW ** Read our Film Blog Beyond the Screen
https://beyondthescreen72.blogspot.com/?m=1
Connect with Charlotte Bjuren
https://charlottebjuren.my.canva.site/
https://uk.linkedin.com/in/charlottebjuren
Connect with Professor John Cook
https://uk.linkedin.com/in/cook-john-a5830342
If you enjoy what I do, consider supporting me on Ko-fi! Every little bit means the world! https://ko-fi.com/finalcut72
The Final Cut
🎬 From Rebel to Filmmaker: Michael Dargie on Creativity, Comedy & Doing Weird Stuff
What makes a brand truly unforgettable? Is it the logo, the tagline, or something deeper beneath the surface? In this fascinating conversation with Michael Dargie—author, podcast host, brand strategist, and self-proclaimed "octopus whisperer"—we explore the art and science of authentic brand storytelling.
Michael introduces us to the concept of "Brand Jitsu," his innovative approach that applies martial arts principles to brand strategy. Like his black belt training in Japanese Jiu-Jitsu, where techniques must be learnable in under three minutes to be useful in combat, Brand Jitsu provides businesses with fast, effective methods to find, shape, and share their unique stories. The secret? Focus on what lies beneath the surface—your values, vision, purpose, and personality—rather than just the visible elements like logos and websites.
Through compelling examples, including a funeral home campaign that celebrated life rather than focusing on death, Michael demonstrates how authenticity creates memorability. Drawing from his extensive background in improvisational comedy at Calgary's Loose Moose Theatre, he shares valuable insights about establishing audience expectations and the power of contrast in brand positioning: "When people are yelling, sometimes it's better to whisper." This philosophy has guided his award-winning Rebel Rebel podcast, where he interviews entrepreneurs and creatives who've found success by daring to be different.
Beyond branding, Michael's life philosophy of "do cool and weird shit with cool and weird people" has led him on remarkable adventures—from scuba diving with giant Pacific octopuses to motorcycle book tours across Canada. His boundless curiosity and willingness to say "yes" to new experiences inform both his personal journey and professional approach, culminating in advice we could all benefit from: "Believe in yourself. You're not going to, but you need to."
Ready to transform your brand from forgettable to unforgettable? Discover Michael's book "Brand Jitsu: How to Move Your Brand from Meh to Memorable," available now from Dundurn Press, and connect with his work at michaeldargie.com.
Hot lights fade, the curtains rise, new stories waiting behind our eyes. Charlotte and John with the final say.
Speaker 2:Breaking down the screens in their own way. This is the final cut when the real review.
Speaker 1:Okay, hello everybody. Welcome back to another of our Final Cut podcasts, and this week we've got a guest all the way from Canada, from Calgary, alberta, in Canada. Now there's a Scottish connection. Their guest tells me that his family is originally from Dundee, and I do know that Calgary itself is actually a small bay in the Isle of Mull from which the city of Calgary in Canada was named.
Speaker 1:Anyway, the person that we've got on today is Michael Dargay, who, again, to use Scottish terminology, is a man of many parts. We say in Scotland, a man of many parts. He does many different things. He's an author, a podcast host, has done a bit of filmmaking and also a bit of adventuring as well, a sort of self-professed adventurer. His main interests at the moment, I think, could be summed up as branding and storytelling. He's built a branding agency called Make More Creative. He hosts an acclaimed podcast on branding and entrepreneurship and creativity, which I'll mention more of in a second, and he also performs in comedy as Drop Bear with his performing partner, jennifer McLean, who's called Panda. So Drop Bear and Panda.
Speaker 1:Now, not only that. I don't know how he has time to sleep, to be honest, because not only that, he's a black belt in Japanese jiu-jitsu, an advanced scuba diver, uh, a championship kart racer, uh, as well as a motor biker and also, um, a proud octopus enthusiast, would you believe. He. He calls himself an occasional octopus whisperer, hence the background for those who are watching, um, the video version of this podcast, which we've carefully slated, an image of a scuba diver with an octopus Not Michael, but somebody similar.
Speaker 1:So, anyway, michael leads the Rebel Rebel podcast, which is an award winning podcast that's been nominated repeatedly for the Canadian Podcast Awards in Canada, for the Canadian Podcast Awards in Canada for Outstanding Business Series, in which Michael celebrates those creative rebels the rebels, either whether in business or creativity, who dare to do different, and in fact, his life motto is quoting from his website is do cool and weird shit with cool and weird people.
Speaker 1:So, as you can tell from that, michael is deeply rooted in storytelling. He's done some work for a loose moose theater company in, based in Calgary, particularly around improv, but probably more to the point for this discussion, has also been involved with brand strategy, using his trademark method of brand jitsu, no doubt riffing on his black belt in jiu-jitsu and he's recently authored a book called Brand Jitsu how to Move your Brand from Me to Memorable, which he's showing right now for those watching on YouTube, published by Dundurn Press and has been released and is available on all good websites and no doubt a few bookshops as well. So I'm breathless after that because there's so much to cover. But, michael, a warm welcome to our latest Final Cut podcast.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh. Well, thank you both for having me. This is great. This is such a privilege. Well, thank you, it's a privilege.
Speaker 1:Well, as we tend to do, I tend to kick off the first question. So, basically, my question is very simple. It's a two-part one. How did you get started and how would you recommend to young people today to get started in the field that you're working in?
Speaker 2:oh my gosh. Um great question. No way to start it off easy, john.
Speaker 1:Well, do the simple one. How did you get started? First of all, oh my, goodness.
Speaker 2:Um, it's a. It's a difficult one to answer succinctly, only because I think I sort of fell into it. It it wasn't a plan, um, and that is just kind of how my life works in general. There there's no real plan. I just sort of show up, I say yes to stuff and then it moves on from there.
Speaker 2:So, um, you know, many, many years ago, I was the communications director for a company called service intelligence. We worked with fortune 100 brands across North America. We were based in Calgary and Seattle and, um, I think probably I cut my teeth there working with big brands. So, and what I learned along the way is that it's very difficult to move big brands Like it's. It's a Herculean effort, it has to be coordinated, it has to take time, and when I I ended up getting packaged out because our company got bought and I had some time on my hands.
Speaker 2:So I did some work for other large brands because that's what I knew. So I did some work for other large brands because that's what I knew, and I decided I didn't love it, that I just I wasn't making the impact I wanted to have. So I spent a year teaching at one of the universities here in the communications faculty while I decided what to do, and then I said, well, you know, to heck with it, I'm just going to hang up my own shingle and I'm going to do my own thing. I'm going to help these small to medium-sized businesses. Smes show up like the big guys because they knew the playbook that the big guys use, so why couldn't a small business do that exact same thing? And I started that in 2006. And here I am today still doing it.
Speaker 1:So that's the agency. I think it's called make more creative correct.
Speaker 2:Yeah, originally it was new west creative, uh, and then it it pivoted as things do over time and uh, since oh gosh, 2013 has been make more creative so what is it you actually, your agency, does?
Speaker 3:It helps small brand or small companies to be shown online. Is that correct?
Speaker 2:We help any size company, like we still do work with large, like really large companies, as well as really small companies. We help people find, shape and share their stories with the world. So everyone gets it, and that's the premise behind this book and that is the. I've taken everything I've learned over 25 years and distilled it into a book to be like if you, if you, if you can't spend time one-on-one with me, at least you'll have a book and be like you can read it and be like okay, that's what we need to do next, and it really is.
Speaker 2:Um, I call it the world's cheesiest metaphor, which is the um iceberg and everything that we see people ask me to do, like a logo or a website or whatever. That's all above the surface. That's the outward expression of your brand and everybody wants that and I get that and we do love doing it. But it's what's below the surface. That's the most important part, which is you know your values, your vision, your purpose, the brand DNA, the thing that makes you you, uniquely you, and then your personality, how you show up in the world, and then who you're serving. Like the, the customer is the hero of the story. You're not, and so that's what the book is literally about that Everything below the surface.
Speaker 1:And I don't even touch really above the surface at all in it and you make a great play, I think, about authenticity and authenticity being key. Can you maybe unpack that and also actually the name Brandjitsu, which is in a way your brand name, how you came up with that and how it relates to what you've written about? I?
Speaker 2:appreciate that. Well, okay, so let's chat about that first. Yes, I am a black belt in Japanese Jiu-Jitsu. I have not practiced in quite a long time, but I'm reminded of it every day when I wake up and I limp for the first, you know, uh, for the first hour of my day.
Speaker 2:Um, japanese Jiu Jitsu. Um, we taught military police, um, security, and if you couldn't learn a technique in Japanese Jiu Jitsu in three minutes or less, it would be useless to you in combat. That is the whole genesis behind it. So it's not a game, it's not a sport. It is to interrupt, stop an attack and prevent further attack. And that's as far as brand Jiu-Jitsu goes. This is just a really, really quick way to learn how to find shape and share your story. This is not uh, that's, that's. That's as much as I get into martial arts. It's just, it's a fast and effective way to do a thing. Um, brand means story in, uh, in in my world, and Jitsu, which is art or technique in Japanese. So the idea here is that it's the story technique. So how can you distill your story, how do you focus your story and then how do you share it with the world? So that's where that came from.
Speaker 3:And if you think about stories, so if I bring you back to filmmaking and things like that, so what first draws you to storytelling?
Speaker 2:And if you do have work in films, what was it that you were so passionate about? You can say so much with so little. You can say so much with color. You can say so much with a camera move. You can say so much with one word delivered.
Speaker 2:Well, do you know what I mean? Like, that's what I love about storytelling and that's what I love about when a brand gets it right. They say so much because there's so much subtext there to to lean into. That makes sense. So I don't know, I've just, I've always loved stories. I love telling stories. I like. I like when people lean in and they're into the story that you're telling. You know, in film we've, we have done so many micro like just really, really short, and most of them are crap, if I'm honest. But we're doing it to learn and to just do stuff. And what does it mean to change the camera angle this way? Like why use a Dutch tilt or why, you know, why are you pushing in or pulling it right? Like why everything has a reason, everything has a purpose when you're telling that story. I hope that answers your question.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and to circle back to the second part of my first question about young people, today I just wondered you know, prompted by what you've just said, we're now in an age of AI where we can create films on on vo3 and young people particularly can do it. Do how do you see that for young people trying to get into what you're doing today? Do you regard this as a great opportunity or, uh, or something, something more dangerous for creativity?
Speaker 2:oh, my goodness, a great question'm not entirely sure how to unpack that, but I look at it this way. So this phone like I've shot films on this iPhone, good ones and I, back in the day when I first started this adventure you'd have a gigantic camera you would have, you know you'd have battery packs. You would have, uh, you know you'd have battery packs. You know, queued up and waiting and you'd you know um, recorded on actual film, not on a card. Um, so technology advances, and so where we're at right now, where you can do some AI stuff, I mean, that's, it's just the next advancement, but how do you tell the story? And that's what matters.
Speaker 2:This is not going to tell the story for you. It might give you some beats. You know, um, if you are you familiar with save the cat, yeah, there, so it's a really great way to learn how to tell a film. Storytelling, like how to tell a story in film, breaks out. You know scripts and beats and what needs to happen here and what needs to happen there. The AI can only get you so far, so maybe you don't have to even have this anymore. Right, you can just prompt a scene, but you still have to be able to tell that story, and yet I't have to even have this anymore. Right, you can just prompt a scene, but you still have to be able to tell that story, and you also have to know how to cut it like I'm not sure if you do um editing on your own like in a premiere or final cut or whatever.
Speaker 2:Yeah, frames matter, and that is the bane of my existence is like I care about every single freaking frame and I also love deleting them. Do you know what I mean? Like it's a there's nothing better than shaving three frames off of a scene where you can just cut it because you're like we don't need any more than that. We can get to the next beat because we got out of our way.
Speaker 3:So for you, then, what is it that makes a story worth telling? Say, even though you say it's a film, it's a stage, a podcast, because you've been a comedian. That's a joke. What kind of criteria and things do you use to find details?
Speaker 2:Yeah, another great question. For me, anyways, it's what's real. So I think think, john, you mentioned earlier authenticity I think that's a that's a huge part. So telling a story that's true and not trying to make it something that it's not, and I mean so that then becomes a very broad answer. You know what? What are you trying to tell? What truth are you trying to get at? Uh, in the opening of my book I talk about um, this lady that I know. Her name is jen bain um and she's a very, very talented puppeteer.
Speaker 2:She works on fraggle rock, if you're familiar with that yeah so she's an extraordinary puppeteer, like mind bending what she can do with a puppet. And uh, we're doing a show at loose news called maestro and I'll just, I'll be real, real quick about this answer. But 14 improvisers start, only one improviser, uh, leaves and uh wins at the end. Uh, so as the scenes progress, the voted off by the audience. So as the scenes progress, the voted off by the audience. So there's three of us left myself, another guy and Jen. Myself and this other guy. We do a scene. We get the audience gives us a four out of five. So we're like, yes, we're going to go, and you know, we're going to the final, and I'd never won a maestro before, so I was really excited. The final, and I'd never won a maestro before, so I was really excited.
Speaker 2:And then jen had to do a solo scene and she walked off stage. She asked for a couch to be brought on, she asked for a spotlight, she walked off stage. She comes back with the this um puppet of a dog and she lies down on the couch and goes to sleep. We're in it. So our theater holds about 200 people and was packed that night. So she goes to sleep and the dog is on her chest, also sleeping. You can sort of see it, sort of heave, deep sigh and the audience laughs. The dog notices the audience and the audience loses their mind. They're just like they laugh even harder. So the dog gets really excited by this, tail, starts wagging and then the dog tries to nuzzle Jen awake because, like there's an audience Did you know there's an audience right, like all the five minutes of this dog existing on stage without a word being said, and I'm almost in tears, honestly, just like remembering it, and I get chills every time.
Speaker 2:That is what's important, because if you're a dog owner or a pet owner, you know the truth of what just happened and it wasn't. We didn't try, she didn't try to make it anything more than it is. She just let that dog exist. And we got to see the, got to see the humanity of it. We got to see her try to push the dog away so she can go back to sleep. We got to see the dog try to. You know, do dog things and I I honestly think that's the, that's the magic of it. So when you can tell a story truthfully, whatever that happens to be, that's what sticks there were. My god, there must have been a hundred scenes that night, but that's the one I remember because that's the one that was true.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes. Well, as dog owners, charlotte and I certainly can identify with that sentiment. But to circle back to the title of your book, then, so, using storytelling, give us some practical examples of how a company brand can go from meh to memorable, in terms of of the techniques that you've been discussing uh, sure.
Speaker 2:So the if we, if we go to this idea that truth is what matters and that's what people will remember, that's what will make it memorable. We can be milk toast about stuff. We can be like me, we can just be like, we just show up like everybody else and that's fine for some companies. That's just how it is, like I and I'm not picking on, uh, realtors, um, but people that sell houses, they typically are the exact same. You see them on the bus bench, yes, let's see them on the side of the bus. They're, they're always doing the same thing. We can attest to that. Okay, that's meh, but it's expected, right, it's. It's just kind of like the, the thrum of that industry. But if you want to be memorable, you need to maybe fight against that. Show up different, be be the contrast. You know, when people are yelling, sometimes it's better to whisper. So knowing, knowing what, the, what the circumstances are, allows you to show up differently, to contrast what's currently there, and I think that that makes a huge difference.
Speaker 2:I did a campaign for a funeral home and it was so successful and it was basically life by Mary. So it just had this picture of this lovely elderly woman carrying a surfboard, living her best life. Life by Mary, celebrations by Pearsons, because it was about celebration of life. Like what? What do we leave behind? Like, what do you get to do in this life? The you know, and how important is that? How do you, how do you want to be remembered? How do other people, how do you want other people to remember you?
Speaker 2:And so, instead of you know, diving into the, the world of death and sorrow and sadness and all the rest of it, we just showed somebody living their best life. And then we had, like um, life by lou, which, which was this elderly gentleman with a grandson on his shoulder. Who's Lou? Lou could be the kid, lou could be the elderly guy, it doesn't really matter. Like people die, but we're not making people feel bad about it. We're instead inspiring people to have fun, be you, have a great life. So I think that's the, that's the magic of it.
Speaker 3:Can I just ask you this question? You describe yourself as being cool and weird things, weird people. What's the weirdest collaboration you ever had and what did it come from? It's brilliant, but how did you come up with that concept?
Speaker 2:Well, I just I find myself being attracted to experiences. That's all that we, that's all that we get. You can't buy an experience. I mean, I guess you probably could buy like a dive experience or whatever. But I'll use an example. This summer I'm doing a book tour. I'm doing a book tour on my motorcycle and my youngest son just bought a new motorcycle and he's out on Vancouver Island and he's like hey dad, let's meet up in Port Alberni. There's a place called the Swept Away Inn. I'm like, okay, I'm like what shameless plug for these guys. They're delightful, they.
Speaker 2:It's an, it's a tugboat that has been converted to a seven suites that you can live aboard. Uh, live on this tugboat, for, you know, for as long as you can tell, your money runs out, I guess. But it's like a hotel on the water and meeting these people. They are just the coolest and weirdest people I've ever met. And so my son got there a day before I did and he meets a couple from Germany and and and then last night he called me. He's just like oh yeah, I can't remember their names, but they're in Calgary before they head back home. So we took them out, we showed them Calgary, we went for dinner. We did the stuff and then I sort of flashed back to our time on the tugboat talking to the owners and where they came from. He was a professional soccer player, she's an incredible chef, they're multicultural and they're just, they're living their best life and I just I find that I get attracted, I get sucked into the orbit of people like this that are just living life differently.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that obviously, I guess, relates very closely to the Rebel Rebel podcast that you've set up, which is to celebrate those who dare to do different, which I think is again another one of your mottos. So talk us through that and some of the guests that you've had and perhaps things that you've learned from talking to those guests.
Speaker 2:Oh, I love that had and and perhaps things that you've learned from from talking to those guests. Oh, I love that. Um, yeah, the rebel rebels started as uh an itch to scratch back in 2018, I think, probably probably 2017 I was thinking about. I'd heard about podcasts and I decided that I wanted to do a show that could shine a light on my friends. So that was season one was. I was just like I want to learn how to do a podcast. I don't know how to do it, I'm just curious about it. Which also is one of the driving factors of my life is just curiosity how do you do this? And so I ended up interviewing a whole bunch of friends and throughout that, I learned how to be a podcast host. I learned the it was. I learned the structure I wanted for my show. I decided that creative rebels and entrepreneurs are my people.
Speaker 2:I just wanted to understand why did you zig when other people zagged? Like, why did you go left when other people went right? I'm just just passionately curious about that, like why, um, I have not had one guest on the show that has not inspired me or has given me uh, goosebumps like they? I just I, I get like the. You know what I mean. Like that, just that. Yeah, yeah, I talked to them just like. Oh, my god, like that's such a cool. What, why did what? Why did you do what? Um, you know, I've had some big names on the show, but it's also not about that. It's about the smaller names. People you haven't heard of, the people that you know created their own thing, like I'm thinking about Tony Drozier, and I mean she's a big name in some circles. She created the beeswax food wrap. She invented that. Wow, she invented that. She invented that category globally. It's like what? So I get to hang out and talk with her about why, like what? What gives me the right to do that? You know, sorry, go ahead.
Speaker 3:Who has been the most surprising guest, to someone you thought would never appear on your show?
Speaker 2:Well, probably the one with the biggest name recognition is probably Joe Foster, the founder of Reebok. He kicked off season five for us. If you ever watch the, he's such a genuinely nice human. Like oh my god, like yeah it just. I talked with him for ages and uh, and nothing feels pretentious about him. Also, he's just genuinely loves how he got there, that taught. He'll happily talk about the struggles that he had getting into the American market and you know then he'll talk about uh on Hill Martinez, which was his guy on the West coast that it kind of helped launch this whole thing during the uh, the aerobics boom. Just a kind, gentle human doing stuff and just pushing limits.
Speaker 3:That's nice.
Speaker 2:And I can't understand. He's like I want to go to America because the market there is 10 times the size of the UK. He's probably won that, but he was relentless about it. It took him like a decade to break into that market. Like what tenacity. It took him like a decade to break into that market.
Speaker 3:Like what tenacity. It's amazing. One person I would love to introduce is Thomas Hilfiger, because I used to buy his clothes when I was younger and I never realized he was actually a person. It was in Sweden and we thought it was a brand and then I was amazed to find out that it was actually a real person.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and obviously this Rebel Rebel podcast has. I mean, I saw stats that it has been listened to in 85 countries and you know it has been nominated multiple times for awards, but it's not the only podcast that you do. I was quite interested. You've parlayed some of your comedy background as well to this Drop Bear and Panda Saves the World podcast. Now for those outside Canada, maybe explain to us who is Drop Bear and who is Panda, and how are you saving the world?
Speaker 2:oh, my god, uh, well, so, and this has changed also. So I thank you for asking that question. Um, I'm drop bear and, uh, my girlfriend is panda jennifer mclean she also shameless plug wrote a, a book called an ode to myself, which is a book of poetry written by a cat for cats. Oh, I see, as you do, yeah, as you do. She's the brains really behind the whole operation. A drop bear, for those that don't know, is basically a feral koala If you've ever been to Australia. The idea is this the koala bear will drop out of the tree, and the reason why I ended up with that name is, I think, pretty much because I'm pretty cute and cuddly, but because of my jiu-jitsu training I'm maybe a little dangerous. So that's where that came from and just rolled, rolled off the tongue.
Speaker 2:Drop, aaron Panda, save the world. We would do a. We did 90 episodes and we were nominated for the one of the top 10 comedy podcasts alongside Amy Schumer and Kevin Bacon, if I can name drop. And we we ended sort of early pandemic. I just ran out of energy for it. It took a lot, it was a heavy lift to produce that show and, um, I needed to take a break from it and we have now come back with drop bear and Panda save Canada. Uh, that has, uh, that's now um showing up.
Speaker 2:I we've got the third episode that is currently, uh, in the edit process and the idea, but you know, behind drop down pen to save the world was we took whatever was happening in the world that day and we celebrated the people that were doing the right thing. Um, we had a sponsor, the friday sock company, where we would send people socks that were doing good things in the world, like just because we're just like, we just wanted more positivity in the world, so we would send people socks that were doing good things in the world, like, just cause we're just like, we just wanted more positivity in the world. So we we did a sock jingles with a guy named Rob Mitchelson, who's a comedian here in Calgary, very talented musician, and he would do our sock jingles for us and it was stupid. And again, this is just one of those. You know, we're just doing it because it's like, it's a laugh, like let's just have some fun.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and dropping the safe canada is a you know what's cool about canada like, especially with the current climate yes, I was going to say you know yeah, love them, so you show it's worth saving.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah. And can I just ask, how is your background in comedy do you feel? How do you think that has shaped your approach to sort of directing, producing well, do do you? You tend to sort of land on a more comedic angle, or how do you? How does that affect you?
Speaker 2:I think like so Great question, that's a deep cut. I'm not really funny. I have funny experiences. I tend to see the world through a slightly twisted lens and I think that that helps me. You know, like even do a campaign for another company where it was like five out of five doctors say that you know living longer and having fun is you should. You should do that and ask your doctor if living longer and having fun is right for you. You should do that and ask your doctor if living longer and having fun is right for you. That, to me, is comedy gold, because it speaks to a truth that we all want to live longer and have fun.
Speaker 2:With improvisation, you learn to say yes and it's it's a bit of a cliche. You say yes and I do think that that's been maybe a driving factor in my life is just to say yes and what happens next? Like I just agree with it and move the story forward. So when I do, I've done stand up, maybe I've done like 15 shows, like I'm not accomplished at all. But what I loved about that was you could tell the story at your own pace, in your own way, and you could see what works and what doesn't work and every audience is different, so you don't know whether you know the the comedy gold that you, that you wrote just didn't hit that night because the audience was too drunk, or you know what I mean. Or maybe you need to change up your pacing or you need to give a beat between how you deliver this line, pause and then hit the next line, like all these things matter.
Speaker 1:So I think that having a lab like that where you can test things out is is really important for storytelling yeah, I mean, stand up is absolutely terrifying because it's just you and the mic and if it ain't funny, if it isn't, isn't landing, it's you know you've got a problem. Um, I, I guess you know that that will also parlay into your work with, with the business world, because, oh, you know, a ceo has to stand up and give a speech, or myself, I mean, I used to be a university lecturer so I gave many lectures. In a way, it's akin to stand-up comedy. So, you know, standing up in public and making a speech, certainly my lectures were comedy, yeah, but you know what I mean? It is quite an undertaking, isn't it? It's terrifying, in fact it is.
Speaker 2:And, uh, what I noticed with the, so improvisational stuff. So loose moose is one of the um, one of the very first places improv comedy happened in the world. So like loose moose, calgary, um keith. Uh, then there is the um IO theater in Chicago did short form or, pardon me, long form improv. We did, we do short form improv. Um the.
Speaker 2:The cool thing about it is, you know, keith would say that you have about 30 seconds where you can do whatever you want on stage and the audience is with you, right, right there. We're just waiting to see what happens next. And how do we create that circle of expectations where the people now can know where that story might go? And he calls that a platform. Who are you, where are you, what are you doing, who are you with and what's your relationship? If you can get those five things sorted within 30 seconds or whatever, the audience will know where that story can go.
Speaker 2:I took that whole concept to brand Jitsu and I'm just like you know what do you do, why do you do it, who do you do it for and why do they care? If you can answer those four questions and this same with filmmaking, filmmaking, storytelling, people understand the circle of expectations. Is this for them or not? That helps connect you to the audience. If you just get right to the point, if you have that platform where people can be like, oh yeah, okay, cool, I get it. Or be like, oh, I get it, but no, I don't want that, that's really really cool. That's a great tool to have.
Speaker 1:So that's great. So it's the 30-second rule.
Speaker 2:Essentially, you give them 30 seconds and hope they are running with you that come to mind, that have literally walked out on stage by themselves in front of an audience of 200 people and not done anything except just sit there and think for 30 seconds and the audience is enthralled. Yeah right, like it's just. It's how you show up, and if you show up authentically, the audience will be there for it. If you show up and you're trying to make it something that it's not, the audience will know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and obviously that relates directly to what you were talking about earlier with brand jitsu and authenticity, and you know the idea of. I mean, I was thinking as well. You know that that funeral ad in some ways reminded me a little bit of slow TV, as they call it Certainly a term that's used in British television circles which is the idea that so much TV is fast and fast editing, so people just go meh. But if you slow it down and you only have a few edits over, say, several minutes, the audience will pay more attention. So I guess it's that same same notion on stage, if you, if you have a stillness to you, um, you know people, people are going to pay attention. I think so yeah, absolutely yeah.
Speaker 2:Uh, have you ever seen the british? I'm sure you have, but the british version of ghosts?
Speaker 1:there's a american version and a british version yeah, well, in fact it was the british that created it first, actually so, and this is my point, like that's the best one, yeah, because it like.
Speaker 2:I watched the american version, I'm just like like it was kind of like the american version of the office, like the british version with ricky face was brilliant, right, because the pacing was right and the, the, the dialogue was right, and same thing with with ghosts. I just I find that take um much more interesting than the american sort of fast food culture.
Speaker 3:Yeah I think maybe it's a bit, because maybe the characters, they resonated very much with the audience, so they knew who they were, the politicians they would have maybe come up in British tabloid or something. I think that's why it was successful. That's just my theory. Can I ask you a slightly different question? How do you balance it all? You're a podcaster, filmmaker, brand strategist. And how do you balance it all? You're a podcaster, filmmaker, brand strategist. How do you manage to balance your life doing all this?
Speaker 2:Not well. My girlfriend will tell you that I probably don't balance it super well. I tend to run as hard as I can, as fast as I can, until I hit a wall. I leave like a Wile Eily coyote shape into that wall. Um, it was, I don't know. It was fairly, fairly regular that you know, probably every six to eight months or so, I'll, I'll hit a wall and I'll just, I will be unable to do anything for a week or two where I'm just like, I'm spent. Um, and this is not the way to live. I'm not prescribing this for anybody, but it's just how I do it.
Speaker 1:I, I don't know any other way than I am a charge blindly into the ocean guy, not a wade slowly into the ocean guy now the mention of an ocean brings me to the most important point we need in this podcast, which is you describe yourself as an occasional octopus whisperer. Ok, but the problem is, I've looked at where Calgary is on the map and there ain't no damn ocean.
Speaker 3:Maybe a sea life centre.
Speaker 1:Maybe a sea life centre. So explain to us why the interest in octopi, because that's the plural of octopus. But also, how on earth do you do this octopus whispering? What is it?
Speaker 2:So many great questions. So here's a weird fact. So Calgary has more scuba divers per capita than any other place in North America. You're kidding, really? Yep, check it out. True? I don't know why, don't ask me why. I suppose you know. Maybe it's the oil industry or the energy industry. There's lots of people that used that disposable income that would go places.
Speaker 2:But I became interested in scuba diving. I did a dive, my first dive, in St Croix in early 2000s, and I saw an octopus. I saw it squeeze itself into like a little pipe. I also almost died from a scorpion fish, but the dive master was there, being like don't pet that. So that was a thing and, uh, I just decided to.
Speaker 2:I love being underwater. I wanted my. I was supposed to be a marine mammal biologist. That is what my life trajectory is going to be. I would watch the um gosh, the undersea world of Jack Cousteau.
Speaker 2:When I was growing up, my parents would rent the film projector from the library. We'd watch that on like we'd have. The screen did the thing and the aqualung was like fascinating to me and I couldn't imagine that you could actually go underwater and be in this whole different world, and it took me a long time to get there. When I did, I couldn't imagine that you could actually go underwater and be in this whole different world. And it took me a long time to get there. When I did, I couldn't let it go. And it just so happens that the west coast of Canada, which is just a stone's throw from where I'm at, it's not very far. I did it in 11 hours on a motorcycle on Sunday. I'm still recovering, but it is some of the best diving in the world.
Speaker 2:And the giant pacific octopus and if you um, just appreciate this for a second, they have essentially nine brains, so the one in their head, each arm has its own brain, called distributive intelligence, and they're able to re combine their RNA at will based on their environment that they're in. Um, they are creative problem solvers. They are curious, oh my God, uh and uh, they're just, I don't know, the most extraordinary being on earth. So I have had occasion where I've been scuba diving and I get to hang out with these creatures, because you can always find them, because there's like a pile of crab shells right by wherever they live, like it's just, it's kind of like they're, they're compost. So you always know there, yeah, and so you know I've I've teased some out. You know I've hung out with them, I've gotten to, you know, see them in their environment and appreciate them in their environment and I don't know, I'm fascinated by them um they're so alien, aren't they?
Speaker 1:I mean, um, there's even some wacko theories that they are actually aliens, but but you know, they are completely alien to what we are and yet, as you say, extremely intelligent creatures. Oh yeah, you say a redistributed intelligence. Pretty smart.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, this arm has its own brain doing its thing. This arm has its own brain doing that thing. Then the other brain is like doing another thing. They're crafty. There's uh, pardon me, there's some really great stories about octopuses, uh in captivity who just get into trouble, like they break out. Uh, they are, um, you know, they'll end up going to, uh, the next tank over that has the tasty fish and they will devour those tasty fish and then go back to their own tank so that when the people come in to check it on in the morning, the octopus is just sitting there doing their thing, but that tank is empty across the way and they don't know how that happened.
Speaker 3:Can I just ask you, though, how did you move from being a marine biologist to telling stories, to brands, to I don't know, I I think that, um, yeah, I, I desperately.
Speaker 2:I thought marine mammal biologist was my thing. Um, we moved from. I grew up just outside of Toronto in Canada. We moved to Calgary when I was 10 and that changed things. For sure. That's where I got introduced to loose moose theater. My parents took me to loose moose when I was 10 years old probably not the right age to learn improvisational comedy, I'm honest. So I think just things changed and shifted and I would say, probably like, learning improv comedy at such a formidable age, certainly making up stories as you go, saying yes and what happens next, has been a huge part of my life. Every decision I've made tends to be yeah, what, like, let's try it, why not? What's the worst that could happen? I'm not tends to be yeah, let's try it, why not? What's the worst that could?
Speaker 1:happen, knock on wood. Well, listen, michael, it's been a real pleasure talking to you and you know that idea of many brains and several tentacles, I think has translated itself into your life for sure. I think has translated itself into your life for sure. So audiences can find Michael's book online and also check out his website, michaeldargiecom first, we need to ask our final question. I was just going to say over to you that we always ask this.
Speaker 3:The final question so what would your advice be to your 21 year old self?
Speaker 2:you're young, younger, michael, or what would there's so many things I would tell myself um, here's some. Uh, I was a dad at 22, just so you know. And so if I went back a year and I could see, Trajectory.
Speaker 2:Yeah, trajectory and stuff like that. I think my advice would be believe in yourself. You're not going to, but you just need to. So if that makes any sense whatsoever, there's this whole idea of imposter syndrome that we hear about so much. There's this should I, am, I allowed to, what if? And I really do think that that advice I think I've taken it, but I think I forget it time to time. Right, just you know, believe in yourself. You got this Step forward. Churchill once said when going through hell, keep going.
Speaker 3:Back to you, Uyon.
Speaker 1:Well, only just to say thanks very much, michael. I mean, it's been truly an authentic conversation, chiming in with what you say is the most memorable brand. So thanks ever so much. And, as I say, michael's book is available from Dundrun Press, published this year. There it is for those watching on video, and you can check out his website as well, michaeldarkeycom. Thanks very much.
Speaker 3:Thank you.
Speaker 2:There's Life by Mary Ah yes. Life by Mary. Cool it's all right. Thank you so much, guys. This has been lovely and you are such great hosts. I appreciate you.
