Wrestling Worst Fumbles

Ever wonder what happens when wrestling promotions have a certified star on their hands but somehow manage to drop the ball? This episode takes you behind the curtain to examine wrestling's biggest career fumbles - those moments when a wrestler had all the tools for superstardom but never quite reached the heights they seemed destined for.

We kick things off with the recent Goldberg controversy, exploring whether his complaints about his WWE sendoff are legitimate or if he's overestimating his place in wrestling history. The conversation reveals a fascinating distinction between performers who truly transcend wrestling versus those who, despite memorable runs, remain one-dimensional characters.

The discussion branches into a critical analysis of how WWE and AEW approach talent differently, particularly in how they handle story progression following major events. We dissect the recent criticism of AEW's post-All In episode of Dynamite and whether it's fair to hold them to WWE's standards for post-WrestleMania programming. This evolves into a deeper conversation about wrestling versus sports entertainment - and whether a promotion can survive on great matches alone without compelling stories.

Perhaps most fascinating is our breakdown of career self-sabotage, with Velveteen Dream serving as the ultimate cautionary tale of a performer who could have been a generational talent but stood in his own way. We also examine structural issues like WWE's inconsistent handling of international talent and the language barriers that sometimes prevent gifted performers from connecting with American audiences.

Whether you're a longtime wrestling fan or new to the industry, this episode offers valuable insight into the delicate balance of factors that create wrestling legends - and what happens when that balance fails. Whose career fumble do you think was wrestling's biggest missed opportunity?

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Chapters

• 0:09 Welcome and Episode Introduction
• 3:19 Goldberg's Retirement Controversy
• 17:56 Recent WWE Storylines and Developments
• 30:42 AEW Post-All In Criticism
• 54:29 Collision vs Dynamite Discussion
• 1:05:38 Wrestling's Biggest Talent Fumbles
• 1:33:07 Thoughts on TNA and Episode Wrap-up

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:09

welcome again, guys, to another episode of the big brothers of destruction podcast. It's the masako it's your boy.

Speaker 1: 0:17

Swag switch in the building yes, sir, yes sir, and we are back with a another episode where today we're going to talk about wrestling's biggest fumbles man. We're talking about those people that they had everything Charisma, wrestling capability. They had characters, they had everything that you ideally would see in your style of wrestler. And me and Swag have actually had conversations before, like what kind of characters we enjoy. Swag loves your monsters such as Kane. I like very charismatic individuals like Stone Cold, but we're talking about again those characters that had that moment. That could have been something, but just WWE just fumbled the bag. Okay, and I don't know if you want to also add to the addition, it could be a part where not just WWE fumbled the bag but the actual wrestler themselves fumbled the bag too.

Speaker 2: 1:18

Oh, that's, that is because it goes both ways. Sometimes it's the wrestler who fumbles, sometimes it's the company that fumbles that. And it's actually kind of funny how, before everything ended up going down, we picked this topic for this week and when it comes to what's been going on in the wild world of wrestling, this literally it goes hand in hand with the shenanigans that has gone on this week and it's there's a lot of interesting bits that I'm like I I also. I know how I feel about it, but I'm curious to see where you're, where you come from, so we'll go ahead and just get into it. I got it Because this is like the fire topic across the situations.

Speaker 1: 2:09

So it's like a wild road of wrestling kind of situation.

Speaker 2: 2:13

Yes.

Speaker 1: 2:13

Okay, so that way the audience knows yeah.

Speaker 2: 2:16

Wild road of wrestling. However, interestingly enough, I would almost say that everything relates to the idea of who fumbled what. Because, though, before this week started, we picked this topic, fam, that's been like the subject of this week Just fumbling all across, all across, all right, it ain't just WWE, it's AEW. I think the only people who really ain't fumbling anything at this very moment is TNA and kind of NXT. But TNA, they're on fire and they are doing things the way you should leading up to your WrestleMania of events, which actually happens tonight. And I'm going to make sure that I watch slamiversary because man, oh man and so, but getting into it, I gotta know how do you feel about this goldberg madness, bro? Where do you say?

Speaker 1: 3:22

okay, are you talking about how he's mad about how he's talking about?

Speaker 2: 3:26

the whole thing from start to finish oh, okay, um, I mean go ahead. I was gonna say well, but it is mainly the fact of, like you know, because he had it, I'm sure we both can agree his last match was good, yes and so. But then afterwards he goes on that one podcast and he starts. He says he's not bitching, but he bitching.

Speaker 1: 3:56

But he's always bitched, like no matter what he's always bitched about, because in Goldberg's eyes, he wanted to be the superhero for kids. He wanted to be like. Kids can look at him and think, basically he wanted to be Cena. He literally wanted to be Cena but he couldn't because with the level of aggression and stuff that you present, you don't. You don't really talk, you're not really, you're just who's next. That's it like. That's your character. There's nothing really to build on.

Speaker 1: 4:25

And the fact is, if a kid can see you and says, I want to be as strong as goldberg, that's it. You don't have any values. You don't have any principles. You don't present anything that makes you a character for somebody like hulk hogan where he says eat your vegetables, take your vitamins, brother, like doing that. You didn't do that. You were just go in the ring, spear jackhammer, who's next? Nobody can get off. Get behind that completely. Besides, we have a monster of a character who just destroys, and that's what you were. You can't bitch about not being that hero and not being getting that hero send off because you weren't that.

Speaker 2: 5:08

So. So, in a nutshell, you're saying the fact that Goldberg was asking for something that he, to a certain degree I won't say he didn't deserve, but like it just wasn't in the books for him.

Speaker 1: 5:26

Basically, it was not something that I won't say deserved, but it just wouldn't match with what he's done, what he has done in this industry.

Speaker 2: 5:39

He doesn't have the substance. He wasn't the thing.

Speaker 1: 5:43

Absolutely and he wants to be that. He wanted to be this larger than life character which he was. He very much was. He was very much a polarizing character who had this streak that anytime you heard that music which I still listen to in the gym this day and whenever I hear it I get amped the fuck up and I start lifting harder and it's something about it. But that's again the presence. That was goldberg. Goldberg was that character. You come he was, arrive, wreck everything, leave. That was him. The roman reigns shirt that was him. So when you heard that song it was like like, oh, somebody's about to die, somebody's about to get burned, and that was it.

Speaker 2: 6:30

Someone I heard on one of the podcasts I want to say it might have been WrestleTalk when I was watching. They said the way that they described Goldberg. Goldberg is an aura. Yes, you know what I'm saying. Goldberg is an aura. Yes, you know what I'm saying. Goldberg is an aura and a presence and it's like, when you think about it and you look at his career and whatnot, it's like he did amazing things for WCW and he made any kind of story, made WCW be important, but outside of his undefeated streak, it's like, you know, it's not like Goldberg cut amazing, rememberable promos. It's like it's not like Goldberg transcended past WCW or anything I mean outside of wrestling. One could say he's done some really cool things for himself. He used to have that whole car.

Speaker 1: 7:40

Yeah, he's more known for his cars. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 7:44

So it's like there's things that he has done, but it's like outside of what he did in wcw, holberg don't got much after that. No, unlike sting you know sting because of how long he was in wcw Sting has gone through a thousand different characters and every single one of those characters he made special and all this other stuff. And then he did go to WWE and he, though, going along with the subject, they definitely fumbled the bag with Sting in WWE. But then prior to that, when he was tna sting and tna is what I know sting by because I didn't watch wcw so tna sting.

Speaker 2: 8:38

if sting is any as good as what he was in tNA and then prior, then Sting deserves everything that he got. And then I feel like what Goldberg did? He saw the send-off, the legendary send-off that was Sting, because at this point I could almost say that I feel like Sting is probably the model for the perfect retirement.

Speaker 1: 9:08

Yeah, from AEW-wise or WWE-wise, because.

Speaker 2: 9:12

I'm like AEW-wise yes.

Speaker 1: 9:13

Period, period.

Speaker 2: 9:15

Okay, let me put it this way John Cena is trying to do what Sting did, and it's failed.

Speaker 1: 9:23

That's another fumble on the back, bro, bro, no, no no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. What I'm saying is like we haven't gotten to the last couple of weeks left, because I mean like, yeah, the whole run right now is not as great as we want it to be, but what I'm saying is wait until you get to those last two tapings or last two appearances, and then it starts to sink in.

Speaker 2: 9:49

i'ma hold you to it, but comparably speaking, sting had a better last hurrah, had a better last year than what john cena has had, and in that last year Sting consistently was wrestling. Yes, john Cena ain't doing shit.

Speaker 2: 10:13

He is showing his face and he's getting a quick crossroads John Cena outside of his matches. Comparatively speaking, I would say Sting's last run versus John Cena's last run that we're going through right now. Sting, being an older person, has taken triple, maybe quadruple, the amount of bumps than what John Cena has done. You know what I'm saying? Well, that is also what John Cena has done.

Speaker 1: 10:46

You know what I'm saying. Well, that is also what makes him the icon. You're correct, absolutely. That is what makes him the icon.

Speaker 2: 10:55

But so going all the way back to with Goldberg here, because we could sit here and glaze staying all day if we really wanted to, don't even when it comes to goldberg right now. Do you feel that, when it comes to everything that's happened, do you feel that goldberg is being a bitch or do you feel that he is justified for how to be?

Speaker 1: 11:21

no, he's being a bitch. I could be straight up with that. He is is being a fucking shit.

Speaker 1: 11:27

Because, like I will say, that interview he did with Michael Cole, that lit a fire in me because he was, like you know, basically being human for a second and not being just Goldberg and being like yo, you violated me in front of my family. I might kill this man in this ring. Kay Faber said I might kill this man in this ring, like kayfabe aside, I might actually fuck him up and then me like yo. So what? If you get the title, I guess we'll see what happens when I get there. It's not like a I'm going to go on another run, it's just like nigga. I don't even care about that right now, I need to get my, get back.

Speaker 1: 12:08

And that about that moment was like oh, goldberg, kind of spit in a promo for once, hold up, like maybe, maybe this match might be good and again, the match was good. The match was good. Um, I will say that photo of him getting slapped in the chest and him like like he'll taking it, like that shit is funny as fuck. All of you seen that shit? It's just straight.

Speaker 2: 12:32

Yeah and then he starts laughing afterwards no, no, no.

Speaker 1: 12:36

There's a photo of him like, genuinely smiling, like how uh Nikki Cross was when she was getting choked out. It's like a like, it's like that.

Speaker 2: 12:45

I have to see that I've only seen the video clips where it's like you know, he gets chopped and he's kind of like laughs it off I have seen one photo where it's like, it's like the, it's the chop and it's the point of impact that you just see the intention and the ripple effect on his chest.

Speaker 1: 13:04

Yeah, I'm like stone face just taking it, but um, I could have sworn, I posted it, but so when it comes to goldberg right now, because you say he's being a bitch there, I can.

Speaker 2: 13:19

There's only a brief, the only thing that I can agree with now, of course he did say in two more weeks he's going to, I guess, spill the beans. But like with how everything is presented and what I've heard right, it's like to me it almost sounds like outside of the fact that sure they cut his promo when it was on live tv.

Speaker 2: 13:44

Okay which was again on live tv, not pay-per-view so, but at the end of the day, though, they immediately posted his promo on youtube, which, for all intents and purposes, more people are going to see it on youtube than they were going to see it on live tv but here's's the thing.

Speaker 1: 14:04

You know he wants to get the TV part, but go ahead.

Speaker 2: 14:08

But I was going to say the fact that, like you know I do believe I heard the statistics that WWE has is like the second largest viewed YouTube channel in like the world or something like that. Okay, so that many people viewed YouTube channel in like the world or something like that. Okay, so that many people did see his thing. They just didn't see it live. But, like, I can understand him being a little disappointed and I would put that, as you know, that was WWE's fault. They didn't time manage properly. But the other stuff that he's complaining about, talking about how you know that was WWE's fault. They didn't time manage properly.

Speaker 2: 14:46

But the other stuff that he's complaining about, talking about how you know that, uh, it's like I don't understand. Like there's a part of me. I'm like I don't get why you're complaining because they still gave you a real, a great send-off. Yeah, no, they didn. Sure they didn't do it on a PLE, but they did it in your hometown. You literally got to do that and go home. You could, you drove home type thing. Like they got almost all of your friends there. And in that interview he was complaining about the fact that there were friends, there were other people who he wanted to be there, but because they waited three weeks before the event to send the invites out for his people to show up, there were people who he wanted to be there that couldn't be there. However, I do believe later on in the interview he said he had like 90 guests. So I'm like so you're complaining that there were some people who couldn't be there, but you had 90 people in the audience and backstage with you for your alright bro, that means you.

Speaker 1: 16:00

That means also now, if there were, if these people were sitting front row, that means there was 90 tickets that WWE lost for you, for you Knowing how much these tickets cost, that could have been up to God knows how much money, like maybe $12,000, if not at least $15,000.

Speaker 2: 16:22

He was complaining about the build towards it. They didn't give him a lot. He didn't feel like there was enough time towards the building of this type situation and it's just all like. But it's like I feel that I feel as if he is only slightly justified in being upset, but at the same time I also feel like he was trying to reach for something that he was absolutely not going.

Speaker 1: 16:56

That nigga wanted pyro blowing up at the end of his speech. He wanted to be able to put his arms up.

Speaker 2: 17:03

I think the worst part was he did the thing where he's all like WWE wouldn't have did that for Triple H, wwe wouldn't have did that for Undertaker and I'm like but you're not them. Not only are you not them, but actually you did get better. Undertaker's last match was a pre-recorded cinematic fight against AJ Styles in front of nobody but a camera crew During the pandemic. Triple H's last match.

Speaker 2: 17:43

I think Cody Swarney had another one after that he showed up to help Cody Rhodes win the title. Okay, yeah, you're right, but like Undertaker has not had ever since the pandemic, that was his last match when he rode off into the night on the motorcycle.

Speaker 2: 18:00

that was his retirement match for all intents and purposes. He didn't get no Goldberg send off. He didn't get no Goldberg send-off. He definitely didn't get no Sting send-off Triple H. Sure they did give Triple H the bells and whistles when he got put into the Hall of Fame, but like aside from that, he never got.

Speaker 1: 18:18

He didn't get no big send-off. He even retired like not even on air, Like he put his boots in the ring, like what was the pre-show I? Don't even remember when that was so it was a WrestleMania I think it was a WrestleMania or something like that, where he came out there says are you ready? He does, or whatever.

Speaker 2: 18:36

And then there is a clip of him put his boots are in the ring you have to show me that because I got you, because, like I've only, when it comes to triple h, I just know that he had to like whether if he was quietly retiring or not, like when triple h got hella sick, because, like the last match triple h had was ass and that was him and sean michaels versus undertaker and kane at saudi arabia. That was yeah, I got the image right here. That is Triple H's last legacy of a match. So it's like that's no way. His last match was a botch, a botch fest, and then he didn't get no fantastic send-off later on, and now he definitely can't have no last match because he's literally got a pacemaker in his chest. And so it's like I don't understand why Goldberg's bitching about that, because sure, it's not Sting, but it's pretty darn decent.

Speaker 1: 19:37

I got you better too. Sorry, I got you better, I got it. It's Wrestlemania 38. I got to send you the photo on Discord and I sent the video on the messenger so you have all viewing points of seeing that. But yeah, that's when he officially retired.

Speaker 2: 19:51

But go ahead, sorry oh okay, gotcha, I mean, well, that's good, but like, but even that it's not. Like Triple H got to have his one last match like Goldberg did nope, and one last match like Goldberg did Nope. And there's not a lot of wrestlers who has been able to Outside of Sting. I can't think of anyone else who had like that kind of presentation on their way out and then, like, after the match, they got to have their family and friends join them in the ring and all this other stuff. So it's like it's what I'll say is like Goldberg, out here, thinking himself as a VIP player, went in in in all of this other stuff, when, like, I mean we'll, we'll let you in the club at discount, but I don't know about VIP.

Speaker 1: 20:42

I'm actually trying to think. I'm actually trying to think who has had a final match? Even Sabu didn't even have a final match. That match, that last match, that wasn't even his last match. No, he said that wasn't his last match. He said he was going to do another one, even though to us that was his last match. Yes, unbeknownst to him.

Speaker 2: 21:08

His body said I'm tapping out.

Speaker 1: 21:09

He said he was going to do another one, Even though to us that was his last match.

Speaker 2: 21:11

Yes, Unbeknownst to him, his body said I'm tapping out. But like, yeah, it's like like there are some people online, but majority of the people online are saying that Goldberg needs to get over himself. Very, very few I've seen are actually on Goldberg's side on this, but I myself I'm not on Goldberg's side. I can understand why he's upset, but at the same time, Goldberg, come on, bro, At least you got to retire on your own terms.

Speaker 2: 21:44

Stop being a bitch, honestly, so that's why I'm gonna keep it out yeah so, outside of that, going into the wwe stuff here, right, freaking, um, uh, shout out to wwe, doing kind of like a, uh, you know, paying that homage to the Amazing Evolution show where, like most of the matches on that Raw were female matches and stuff like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, freaking, really nice fights, freaking. I'm not feeling the. I mean I guess it is what it is, but like three-way match, naomi, rhea, ripley and eo for the belt I'm like, I guess now lyra versus bet fam. I know, in the very beginning of all this I was kind of critical about the whole lyra losing the title and her going up against Becky Lynch and this and the other. However, I have to admit this whole shindig going on with Lyra right now has been spot on. It's been great. I still don't like Becky having the belt. You can sit back.

Speaker 1: 23:04

What do you mean? What do you mean? What do you mean by this thing with Lyra? What's going on?

Speaker 2: 23:10

Listen, I would say, even though I feel as if, like I mean sure, becky having the belt and then making Lyra chase Becky Lynch for it and all this other stuff, even though, like, lyra beat her twice prior, going into all of this, but then when they added Bayley to it, it added some extra spice to it and that I appreciate but like this build that they've been kind of doing and how they've been, this whole process has made Lyra look like a fucking stalker.

Speaker 1: 23:48

Okay, okay, okay, okay Okay.

Speaker 2: 23:51

I don't know what you're trying. Or you try, or you try to make me be like. You know what they was right to give. Give. Give Becky Lynch the belt. Becky has made this and so much better. Hell, no, I ain't going to give that bullshit.

Speaker 1: 24:03

Fuck you, bro you gotta admit, because if it wasn't the case, if it was the opposite way around and Lyra had the belt, okay, it would not be as spicy. Okay, let's give it some credit. Give credit where credit is due.

Speaker 2: 24:19

I will give credit to the fact that Becky Lynch having the belt and making Lyra chase it has definitely made this whole thing for Lyra very good. But just because Lyra chasing Becky for this belt has been good doesn't mean that I wanted it to be Becky that's chasing, for we could have done a. We could have had a completely other program. We could have somebody else. Hell, we could have had Becky in the banger of matches.

Speaker 1: 24:56

You're just a Becky hater listen, I've never liked Becky.

Speaker 2: 25:01

God damn like I'm not listen. There is better, there were better options. Becky is the weakest horse woman.

Speaker 1: 25:09

She just no, no, no, no, oh, oh, we're not gonna go back to this conversation, oh it's because, well, I'm like who's the weakest horse woman to?

Speaker 2: 25:19

you say it's Charlotte and give me a reason. No, it's not.

Speaker 1: 25:21

Charlotte. It's not Charlotte, absolutely not Charlotte, exactly it's Charlotte. And give me a reason. No, it's not Charlotte, it's not Charlotte, absolutely not, of course it's absolutely not. Um, sadly, because only because WWE hasn't done enough with her, it's Bayley to me because they haven't done the right things with her. If she, if she has was given a good story, a good character, like all that kind of stuff, it had better title reigns. Yes, I would say Bayley would be number three, but because WWE only pushed and why?

Speaker 2: 26:03

The only reason why? The only reason why is because Beckley Specky stole that spotlight from her.

Speaker 1: 26:10

She didn't steal it, it was given Because she got hit in the face and had that moment and WWE just said hey, she's red hot, bruh, bruh.

Speaker 2: 26:20

I mean, I guess you could say it was given to her by Nia Jax.

Speaker 1: 26:26

Oh yeah, I still got to make. Do we hurt people?

Speaker 2: 26:34

But aside from all of that, lyra and goddamn Bayley, that two out of three falls match. That shit was delicious, absolutely delicious, and Lyra came out on top with that one. Delicious, and lyra came out on top with that one. However, I'm wondering what is going to come of bailey after all that, because I because, like now she's kind of because once again, at the expense of becky lynch, bailey is being tossed to the side and therefore why I say she's the weaker one, because they just don't just don't know what to do with her.

Speaker 2: 27:13

They don't. She's not See. This is what we call a fumble, right there. Okay, you are right, you are right. But it's not Bayley's fault that they're fumbling her. Not at all.

Speaker 2: 27:26

It's not her fault that WWE does not know what to do with her Absolutely. But this is that same situation going into the Eva Marie thing Just because they don't know what to do with her Absolutely. But because this is that same situation going into the Eva Marie thing Just because they don't know what to do with her does not make it Bayley's fault. It does not make Bayley any less better than what Becky than she already is. With that being said, tail end of Raw Goddamn boy. With that being said, tail end of Raw Goddamn Boy, seth Rollins' team in the way that they are pushing Braun Breaker to the freaking moon right now. Yes Is it's all right. I won't say it's phenomenal, but I enjoy it. Also, shout out to AJ Styles being his goofy ass self leading up to his match with Dom watching him pray.

Speaker 2: 28:28

It's like dear lord, make sure that he is, and then for Dominic to also start praying back, being like Jesus. Lord, let them not let me be cleared to wrestle. I'm like damn, that's what we're doing.

Speaker 1: 28:44

I mean, Dom is a very good comedy wrestler, but he's also a shit grinning heel.

Speaker 2: 28:52

Dom is doing his job In this match, when it obviously happens. It's going to be legit, it's going to be good. I don't know. I don't know. I would prefer for Dom to lose the title, but I don't think they're going to give that to.

Speaker 1: 29:12

AJ. I feel like the way they're building it, aj, if he, if AJ, wins, it's going to be by disqualification and he's going to beat down Dom and it's going to create another match where the stipulation is something that bards Judgment Day from the ring and that maybe is when he gets the belt. But like I really don't want Dom to lose the title right now.

Speaker 2: 29:41

Oh, thank you. Well, and plus there's been some whispers that they're about to have AJ Styles do some things at TNA. Yeah, like it's actually very heavily thought that, tonight being the night of pretty much they're thinking that he's going to show up at Slammiversary.

Speaker 1: 30:03

Which hurts my heart, because we have a dear friend who's no longer with us. Who man? That would have been everything to him.

Speaker 2: 30:12

Oh, aj Styles showing back up at TNA, that would have been everything to him. Oh, aj Styles showing back up at TNA, that would have been everything. Listen, it's funny. There's a lot of things that are happening in wrestling right now, that freaking when we consider whose guy is whose. His people are up right now, except Jericho, except Jer right now, except Jericho, except Jericho. But Jericho, he posted a photo. He out here looking like he about to do it again, so he's probably on his way down, oh yeah got the old man six pack and everything.

Speaker 2: 30:51

But uh, yeah, like with Hangman, adam Page being champion, because Hangman was his dude. But yeah, the gauntlet happened. We're not talking about whether or not if Seth Rollins is actually injured or not, if this is an angle or if it's a work.

Speaker 1: 31:08

I mean, that's why we're wearing the Seth Rollins shirts, you know, to support homie. You know what I'm saying? Sure, that's why we're wearing the Seth Rollins shirts. You know, to support homie.

Speaker 2: 31:13

You know what I'm saying sure, that's why we're wearing them don't take it away my guy we'll let that ride. But of course, after Braun Breaker does all of the work, cm Punk comes out there and takes the dub, and now, as predicted, cm Punk's going to go and fight Gunther. They already had this set up from the jump when CM Punk pushed Gunther and all this other stuff a while back, and so it's like as business as per use. But the question is the hell are we going to do with OTC1?

Speaker 1: 32:01

Yo yeah, a lot of people are saying apparently that was a dumbass idea of a shirt.

Speaker 2: 32:06

I don't even understand what that means.

Speaker 1: 32:11

Got it Moving on. Yeah, yeah, I don't know what fucking means either. I'm the original OTC.

Speaker 2: 32:19

I'm the one OTC but that's what OTC means that's what I'm saying, so like.

Speaker 1: 32:27

Maybe he thought. No, maybe he thought, and one like and one basketball.

Speaker 2: 32:34

AEW right this nigga.

Speaker 1: 32:39

He asked a question we're just gonna.

Speaker 2: 32:44

He gave a stupid answer, but he gave a stupid shirt you're right, but anyway, out here on your suffering succotash shit right now. Uh aw man. So I have to ask you on this how did you feel about dynamite, like overall, like how did you feel about that episode of Dive?

Speaker 1: 33:15

I mean Hangman getting his moment was good. It was for, like you know how I suppose, like the Raw After Mania is normally like that's the go to episode. This didn't feel like that. This felt very chill like that. This felt very chill like, oh, this is another episode of AEW, okay that's what I wanted to confirm cause.

Speaker 2: 33:45

So at first and I think I've realized why but at first I watched that episode of AEW and I thought. I thought I thought it was relatively good. And then I went online and, bro, people are taking big dumps on AEW for that episode of Dynamite. What was wrong with it? So people?

Speaker 2: 34:12

So there's a couple of things that people are saying. Number one exactly what you said, and that's the fact that this was coming off of your wrestlemania and us being wrestling watchers. The raw after wrestlemania is supposed to be the biggest Raw and the Raw that's supposed to set the Tone for the rest of the Year, type thing. And In hindsight, aew didn't do that. It's supposed to be the night where you plant seeds For the next couple of rivalries that are going to come up and begin your Builds and what not. And like the only thing for the next couple of rivalries that are going to come up and begin your builds and whatnot. And the only thing that they really planted was Edge is going to be going after FTR and a little touch on the Christian stuff, obviously, tony Storm and Athena are about to have their back and forth.

Speaker 1: 35:14

Which.

Speaker 2: 35:14

Athena needs to win the belt and they kinda sorta, I guess, are teasing a little bit that Swerve and and Okada are probably gonna be fighting hmm, yeah, I remember that.

Speaker 2: 35:30

Yeah, I remember that, but it's like but after everything that happened at that pay-per-view, that's really it like. And even then they weren't like like big boom, that's what's definitely about to happen and boom, this is the direction that they're going. And it's like because I, personally, I thought it was a good episode, I thought it, I thought it was a good episode, I thought it was entertaining. Obviously, I can't judge them on great matches, because that's just default for them, but when I started hearing it being broken down and it's the fact, like you know, they just Because the other thing that people are really dogging on them about is the fact that so you have AEW, they just, they just sold out.

Speaker 2: 36:15

Well, they didn't sell out, but they, they just put up, you know, like 30,000, however many people at that baseball stadium, right, and for them to have their big Wrestlemania and then literally have a wrestling show on their next night in what's practically a fucking bingo hall that holds like 900 people. It's like that. It doesn't look that good. Like it's like. Why would you do that? Like you, if you had your wrestlemania? It would make more sense to have at least like a freaking regular arena full of people, because that should be like one of your big selling shows, and that's when you push everything that you want to push to set the stage for the rest of this year, kind of going forward. And they didn't do that. Instead, they're at this really cool looking ballroom but like they have like barely a thousand plus people in there. I think they said like one thousand one hundred and something people fit that building.

Speaker 1: 37:32

They said like 1,100 and something. People fit that building. So to kind of answer this question, right, I kind of want to just talk to wrestling fans in general. For us to create standards for one product to another product, we already have fans who are complaining that either AEW is trying to be WWE or WWE is trying to be AEW. Why can't they be their own separate promotions?

Speaker 1: 38:01

We never did this with TNA. Tna, yes, used to take older talent, but we never compared the two. We knew you got your storytelling from WWE and you got impact wrestling over here. Right, tna has never done a Raw or, like you know, impact after Slammiversary thing where it sets all that stuff. They never really did that and nobody's ever complained. But for some reason, aeew is such the secondary competition when tna has also been the secondary competition at one point. Um, they never did that. Nobody, I don't think I don't think anybody complained then. But like, why are we setting that standard with aew? Now? Aew is not wwe, it will never be wwe.

Speaker 1: 38:48

So for you to set the standard that, okay, after All In, there has to be the dynamite, after All In and it has to the big name players need to come back to this, this and that, like, you're setting a standard. You're putting people in a box, right? We understand the product of AEW is wrestling. That's why they always say this is the home of professional wrestling, right? A WWE champions being sports entertainment. The reason why we look forward to the Raw after Mania is because it's fucking entertainment.

Speaker 1: 39:26

It is literally what it is. It is that entertaining moment of who's going to pop up. Who's going to do this. What's going to happen here? You have to watch it. Wrestling WWE has happen here. You have to watch it. Wrestling WWE has always been. You had to watch it. Aew is you watch it out of the enjoyment of pure wrestling, right? So I feel like hearing that you are putting AEW in a box. That is not right. They will never be WWE. They will never. They're the second best because you know they have certain people from you know all over the world that we would love to see in a promotion. It's always been. Tony Khan wanted to create his own New Japan. Aew is American New Japan. That is literally it.

Speaker 2: 40:21

I think that's my song and honestly, even though there are, like there are slight bits that I'm like I slightly don't agree, but honestly you're right, like I like, even though there's the small bits that I don't agree, because, like I personally do feel that, like, after you've had like that big show kind of thing, like you should have a um, what's the word I'm looking for? Like, after you've had that big show, the show that follows up with it should be good, because, like you know, wrestlemania is like the end of the season finale and then the next show after your WrestleMania show is like your. Alright, this is, excuse me, we're in the new season, so how's the new season going to start? Panning up type situation. And I do feel, as far as what Dynamite did, I think I feel as if it did the job, but I also think it did not do it as strong of a job as what I feel the rest of the wrestling world is preconditioned.

Speaker 1: 41:37

That's what I'm saying.

Speaker 2: 41:39

And so it's like I do agree with you on the fact that, yeah, we gotta stop putting AEW in that box, because I feel as if AEW also has to stop putting themselves in that box, and I hope that they are working their way towards it, because it's like the sooner that they just stop trying to WWE and they just do what they want, do what they do, I think they will be better for it.

Speaker 2: 42:11

However, I also feel that if they want it's almost like the, it's like what you and me were talking about when it comes to social media the other day. It's like we don't want to sell our souls to the social media gods so that they, you know, put us in the algorithm. However, we have to at least appease them just a little bit to get people, to get people to look at what we want and then realize, oh, this is good and, I'm hoping, moving forward. That's what they try, or they do a little bit more. Because, where? Because, then, when it comes to collision collision, this is like this episode of collision was like a night and day change from other collision episodes, because usually collision is like just a bunch of really good wrestling they hung coca-bana, bro.

Speaker 1: 43:13

It was like good wrestling. They hung Co-Kabana.

Speaker 2: 43:16

Bro, it was like what's funny about that is they hung him and then the Death Riders just left. They didn't say shit. I was just like I literally went back to watch it. I'm like, wait a second, why did they do that? No, they just fucking did it. They just fucking did it.

Speaker 1: 43:32

And that's what I love about as much as everybody hates the death riders. I am that kind of person. I just do shit because I fucking want to. Who's gonna stop me? They are jacob far too in that nature of like, so who's gonna stop me? But like collision.

Speaker 2: 43:51

I would say that, like. So, personally speaking, I think collision did what everyone wanted dynamite to do. Yeah, I could see that like, like if they would have had collision on dynamite and then did what they did on dynamite on collision, then people probably wouldn't be talking all this craziness. But we start off with Dustin coming out there cutting that promo and then resetting up everything with Kyle Fletcher and the Don Callis family. That was great Freaking.

Speaker 2: 44:30

Megan Bain had a banger of a fucking match as per huge, that's normal of course, as you said, jon Moxley and the Death Riders jumped Colt Cabana because they're just pissed off just fucking because and then we had even more interaction with Toni Storm and Athena and I'm like fam, what is this collision right now?

Speaker 1: 44:58

It was the CM Punk show. That's why. I mean that's true, and CM Punk would be the Raw show.

Speaker 2: 45:08

But like they killed this collision, I'm actually interested to see what people have to complain about when it comes to this collision. I'm actually interested to see what people have to complain about when it comes to this collision, because I thought this collision was good.

Speaker 1: 45:20

I thought both episodes were good. It wasn't the Dynamite After Mania.

Speaker 2: 45:27

Honestly, that's really what it boils down to. I agree to an extent because, like after I watched the dynamite, I was like, damn, that was a good episode. And then I heard everyone talking all this shit. I'm like, damn, do I have rose color glasses on? Am I just? I'm like, am I just preconditioned to like mediocre stuff compared to speaking?

Speaker 1: 45:54

Damn. You're not about to say that shit was mediocre. That's crazy.

Speaker 2: 45:59

And I wasn't, but everyone else made it sound like it. And what was? I think one of the podcasts I watch his name is J. Yeah, jd, freaking he was. He had his friend whose name is Jesse funny enough, black guy and when they were talking about that dynamite, jesse made the statement of saying that the wrestling was great on this episode and JD was like who gives a shit?

Speaker 1: 46:29

damn who cares?

Speaker 2: 46:33

who cares about the wrestling like that that's what we're watching it for, sir and then his rebuttal to that would have been where's the fucking story?

Speaker 1: 46:46

again. You're so used to the WWE product and the story that you can't even enjoy wrestling anymore.

Speaker 2: 46:53

It's, and that's the story that you can't even enjoy wrestling anymore and that's the thing that I feel is like and that is the hill that AEW has to fight. It's one of those things where, if they want to get anywhere, they are going to need to lean more story in. I personally disagree, because they are going to need to lean more story in.

Speaker 1: 47:14

But then I personally disagree, because we watch different products for a fucking reason. You know what I'm saying. Like because think about it. If you truly watched every single product and said, hey, everything has to be the same, then why is there tribalism? There's no reason for tribalism.

Speaker 2: 47:36

then, if every product is supposed to be the same, but it's the whole social media talk that we had, because AEW is missing. Those social media beats the flashing lights with the transitions and all these other things. What's the word I'm looking for? Statistically speaking, no one's watching and no one cares, and that's why I said the fact that I don't want them to go full stories and lose what their wrestling is.

Speaker 1: 48:14

But they got to lean into it. You want some sustenance.

Speaker 2: 48:16

Yeah, just a little bit. They need to lean into it, because if they could just lean into it, some more kind of thing, if they could give me a reason why these guys are fighting in an eight-man tag team match, besides the fact that you just have a bunch of wrestlers on your roster and this is how you pay them by having them out there and at least have a little bit of a match, even though it's with 10 different niggas like it's like, okay, sure, but like, for example, with the uh, uh Shibata versus uh, okay, yeah.

Speaker 2: 48:57

At first I'm like, why is this match happening? The match was great. These two motherfuckers slapped the piss out of each other, like if I was a wrestler. I'm starting to, I'm starting to think like undertaker, like nigga, if you was chopped me times, then after the third chop, I'm hitting you in the face and we're moving on Because fuck.

Speaker 1: 49:21

So I think to kind of get into that now, because when I say that AEW is New Japan, right. A lot of times when you watched Wrestle Kingdom, did you know the story of those matches? No, not at all. And they were still good fucking matches, right.

Speaker 2: 49:40

Yes, they were. However, to that beat though, because there is no story to those matches. It's why we have not talked about anything New.

Speaker 1: 49:58

Japan, you're right, but also we're not watching New Japan's product like that. Well, this is true.

Speaker 2: 50:03

But like, if I because just like with certain beats and certain things if I heard that oh, there's this whole situation going on where Zack Sabre Jr is, you know, doing da-da-da-da and broke into the homie's house and cut this promo and cut that promo, then I might tune in a little sooner, or I would have at least looked at it to see what the fuck people are talking about. But when it comes to New Japan, I only hear stuff about New Japan after it's all happened. Okay, so then, that talking about. But when it comes to new japan, I only hear stuff about new japan after the after it's all happened okay.

Speaker 1: 50:35

So then that proves my point. You're in it for the sports entertainment aspect of it. You're in it for those moments where, literally, when you go to a indie wrestling show, do you know the stories that's going on there or do you just watch the product?

Speaker 2: 50:50

so it's a mix, because more often than not, when it comes to indie shows, with the way that sometimes, yes, matches are just put together, however, even indie shows do incorporate some kind of story. So they do come out to the ring and then they'll, you know, say something or, you know, set up a, a, a position of some sort. There is story involved, yes, on the indie scene yes, but it's not as dramatic in sports entertainment.

Speaker 1: 51:24

Ease what I'm saying like but even then so.

Speaker 2: 51:28

so what if it's not as dramatic? There's still story.

Speaker 1: 51:32

Yes, but what I'm saying is that's what? That there's a gift story like that. Actually, they do so. They do have moments like that. It's just it's not as boom in your face like, oh my God, he went into such and such house and did this, and that it's more of a and I would say, honor code, but it's more of a. You're stereotypical. This is the ace or this is who it is, and this is the bad guy. It's good guy, bad guy, that's it. Bad guy comes over here, beats the shit out of you, boom, boom, boom. He creates some heat and he leaves.

Speaker 1: 52:04

But there's no like super dramatic, like super in-depth story that we would get, like we would get from WWE, where you're Well like, okay, perfect example, the Hangman and Swerve story. That is the best story they fucking got like right now, outside of the MJF and CM Punk one, because there's layers to it, right? Yes, Swerve went to his fucking house, did XYZ with his kid, which led him to burn his house down. This is now cinema, this is now theater in that aspect, and the matches are the fights that you would see in a movie. Right, it's what I'm trying to say. It's like it's very entertainment-y and, yes, that is what we enjoy about wrestling. We want the wrestling, we want the wrestling, we want the story. That is what's selling us right.

Speaker 1: 52:57

But I think we have both come to the conclusion. Even AEW keeps saying it themselves they are the home of professional wrestling and really, you're here for the fucking wrestling and I get it. I would like more story from AEW, because I want to champion aew all the fucking time. At one point, because they have penta, they have all my people, they got jay white. I'm so mad they're not doing shit with jay white. Jay white is my fucking god. Okay, switchblade, that's my, that's my dude. But they don't do shit with them because, one, they have too much shit and then they don't do storylines. So we're already like on the fence with that. That's why we're always been WWE guys and TNA guys, because TNA for some reason fucking do storylines but not AEW.

Speaker 2: 53:44

Um, but but it's to that, it's to that idea and that thought, because, like, when you break it down that particular way, like I mean, because, like with the like with the new japan thing, I feel that I mean grant, I also know that there's a some, there's a lot of shake up going on with new japan, because all of like new japan's, like ogs, are like phasing out and now they're they're new japan's about to go through their uh, what you call it, their uh, new generation era, yes, yes, situation, and so, like I know they're trying, they're, they're rebuilding their founding, but it's one of those deals where it's like, uh, at the end of the day though, it's like because, yes, the wrestling is great and, yes, we, there are people who do like to watch it for the wrestling, however, and people on the indie circuit, people who have trained me, they will always say you can't survive in this business on the wrestling alone.

Speaker 2: 54:50

The wrestling alone, the wrestling is only going to get you so far. You have to entertain, there has to be an entertainment piece. And AEW, granted, they want to be like the indie show that's on TV, but no one's going to watch it on TV if there's nothing entertaining. And that's the reason why WWE stays winning and it's the reason why TNA is still surviving, because TNA has continued to be entertaining. The only reason why TNA has been on life support up until this point is just because of bad business decisions on the back end and money problems. If you gave TNA the endless pockets of Tony Khan, tna would be selling out arenas right now. Oh, facts.

Speaker 1: 55:49

But also that's another thing about TNA. Tna has a reputation of multiple years of providing that content that we, as me and you as TNA loyalists, if we see some shit going on with TNA, we're going to check it Because he's given us that for years. And yes, aew's been around almost five years now and WWE and TNA have been. Tna has been around for us since the early 2000s, right. So they got years of reputation, years of giving you this thing. And it's crazy too, because AEW in the beginning was starting to do that. They were starting to create a good reputation for themselves and I feel like a large part of that was because Cody was in their team and he's a big their team. He's a big story guy. He's a big story guy and the Young Bucks aren't. The Young Bucks don't have any capability of telling a story. The only story the Young Bucks have is that Matt Jackson has a bad back. That's it. That's the only thing outside of that there.

Speaker 2: 56:52

Super kicks, evp triggers and cease and desist, cease and desist, jesus. Uh, and to end off this little bit, yep, yep and whatnot, uh, uh, earlier this week I was uh telling my girlfriend that, um, telling my girlfriend that I was making an interesting comparison and I'm like AEW is like AEW is potentially Gohan in the Dragon Ball Z series.

Speaker 1: 57:29

Go ahead. Actually, this is going to be a good clip Go.

Speaker 2: 57:35

To me, and this is just me specifically I feel that AEW has so much potential that needs to be unlocked.

Speaker 2: 58:03

Aew has the potential to be great and amazing, but the problem is, just like Gohan, they hold themselves back from their own greatness right now, with where I think once again, this is my opinion, but I feel where they're at right now, aew is Super Saiyan Gohan, while WWE is Cell is perfect Cell and NXT and TNA are the Cell Juniors okay and Are the Cell Juniors Okay. And we're currently waiting For AEW To have their moment when Android 16 who, if we wanted to, we could call New Japan Tells AEW Just let go, just let it all go, do what you need to do, because you alone have the power to beat Cell. And then WWE crushes Android 16's head and then, hopefully, we get to that point where we see AEW hit Super Saiyan 2 and start making WWE be like oh, we pushed them too far. Now they're firing back on all cylinders and they about to beat our ass but that's the thing with that ending, though, gohan kills Cell, so like.

Speaker 2: 59:44

I mean, if there is anyone in the game who would have the ability to possibly do anything like that. Now, of course, what I feel would honestly end up happening is we would get to that point where, you know, gohan beats Cell, cell spits out Android 18, cell tries to explode, goku takes Cell away, and then Cell comes back and he's three times stronger than he originally was. And that's where we stay. No, father and son, kamehameha, no, no. And then Cell comes back and he's three times stronger than he originally was, and that's where we stay, like it just, and then no, no, no father and son Kamehameha no none of that?

Speaker 2: 1:00:19

None of that. That's just where we stay, because now we have AEW Super Saiyan 2, showing the fact that, yeah, wwe, we can clap back, and then WWE like all right, clap then, but then we haven't made the next couple of episodes. Therefore, we just start over and we, you know, show reruns. But like I feel, oh my god, today I feel that aew has the potential to do the thing that is needed, because in my mind, what happens is when AEW realizes what they got to do, and then they actually start doing it and they're consistent with it kind of thing.

Speaker 2: 1:01:03

It's like it's then going to make WWE stop being stupid and doing dumb shit and fucking with people's pockets and and and it will start making them stop thinking as just a business that's just going to constantly make money, because after a while they're going to realize oh wait a second, why is our wwe share looking kind of weak, like what happened to our? Hey, somebody make that shit good again. Because right now WWE is not good to it, like as a whole WWE. They are. They are. They are skating across the surface because they don't have to try. They don't, they don't feel challenged enough to have to try okay, that's a deep cut.

Speaker 2: 1:01:54

They don't feel challenged enough to have to try. Okay, that's a deep cut they don't feel challenged enough to have to try. And if AEW can make them feel challenged enough and the only way AEW can make them feel challenged enough is they have to hit them where it hurts and that's in the fucking pockets. But they can't because, once again, WWE, they have their Cell Juniors out here in NXT and TNA Counterbooking and all this other stuff you know, trying to hinder AEW from getting any kind of shine. Because, yes, AEW had a great pay-per-view last week. But you know what everyone's talking about? Goldberg bitching in that amazing match that happened where Naomi cashed in the title or cashed in to win the title. That's what everybody's talking about. And sure, Goldberg bitching is bad publicity, but it's publicity taken away from AEW.

Speaker 1: 1:02:51

You have a point and so, but it's publicity taken away from AEW. You have a point and so.

Speaker 2: 1:02:58

I just need AEW to let it go, go, super Saiyan 2.

Speaker 1: 1:03:08

I would like to also counter a Dragon Ball Z reference. Aew was Future Trunks when he defeated Cell Not Cell Future Trunks. When he defeated Cell Not Cell Future Trunks. When he defeated Frieza and he came up looking badass as fuck right and he was that guy. That was 2020, to the moment Cody left and that's when he went back to his future, which is literally cody. We're back to his future, reclaimed by destroying the androids. He's fixing his home and then we get gt trucks and that's currently a gt trunks all all the way up to the new version of Trunks we get in Dragon Ball Super and everything. Because he's not as cool as he used to be. Oh no, he is a fragment of his previous years. We know he's careful.

Speaker 2: 1:04:12

But I mean, if you're talking about that future Trunks, that future Trunks also went head to head with a god, though, and held his own. Aew has not done that.

Speaker 1: 1:04:28

They went head to head, not with a god cause. Technically they were going back and forth with TNA and NXT. It was not a God. But wait, would NXT technically be a god compared to WWE actually being the? The people that started the tournament?

Speaker 2: 1:04:55

the two, the two brothers the gods of destruction yes absolutely alright, alright, I'm not gonna yes, absolutely, absolutely, all right, all right, move on, move on, move on. I'm not going to, I'm not going to, I'm not going to gasp like AEW, I'm not going to do that.

Speaker 1: 1:05:23

I just wanted to throw that in there real quick. But you know what we can finally throw in there is wrestling's biggest fumbles and we're talking about any promotion, whatever the case may be but their biggest fumbles when it comes to wrestlers and wrestlers biggest fumbles.

Speaker 2: 1:05:42

so you know what is one of the biggest fumbles right now? The fact that brody king the goon is not doing anything like, has any like direction? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah that is a fumble if I've ever seen. Yeah, brody is just reduced to being one of the eight men in a tag team match. Okay, that is Brody King's life right now, which I mean good for him, because that's less bumps and I guess he still gets a little bit of TV time and so he's still getting paid.

Speaker 1: 1:06:20

But at the same time, brody King should be up here somewhere Could you imagine him in Bronson Reed, but at the same time Brody King should be up here somewhere.

Speaker 2: 1:06:30

Could you imagine him in Bronson Reed, up here somewhere, when the goon Brody King goes to WWE? Oh Fam, if the goon Brody King went to Vince McMahon's WWE Bell, instant, instantly.

Speaker 1: 1:06:48

Especially attitude-era version of him.

Speaker 2: 1:06:50

Oh man, listen, Brody King deserves everything.

Speaker 1: 1:06:58

He's how I felt about Wapenta.

Speaker 2: 1:07:01

The only thing that I don't get to hear much of him is him talking on the mic.

Speaker 1: 1:07:07

He doesn't need to though.

Speaker 2: 1:07:10

Exactly, he doesn't have to. Oh, oh, oh. Listen Brody King and Braun Breaker In a tag team, the Doghouse Nigga.

Speaker 1: 1:07:28

Tell him, bro, bro, bro bro bro. Tag team the dog house nigga.

Speaker 2: 1:07:29

Tell him bro.

Speaker 1: 1:07:30

Bro, literally like their theme song just starts off easy, easy can you imagine that my guy like bro, that that has to be like they have to have a longer tag team reign than the new day, than the Usos, I'm sorry, like that should be undefeatable.

Speaker 2: 1:07:52

That combination of sheer power and explosiveness that they both possess the spear and the black hole, slam Brody King, one of the best black Slammers since the retirement of Abyss, who also didn't get a proper send off Goldberg, just to let you know like damn damn, damn damn. You know it is what it is, but yes, I just I wanted to throw it out there, just front and center quick.

Speaker 1: 1:08:29

I got some more for you, goldberg. I got some more for you, bro. Oh man, I got more for you, bro. The clip is not empty the clip is not empty and I got one more clip left yes, velveteen Dream, I will say, is the worst fumble ever, ever, and a large part of it's him, because I feel like if he would have laid low after they found out, the allegations weren't true, if he would have just laid the fuck low and just chill, not getting into situations, go ahead.

Speaker 2: 1:09:20

Sorry, tessa Blanchard and Alberto Del Rio could make it to where they're at right now, like he could have done the same. Listen, enzo.

Speaker 1: 1:09:42

Literally Real one.

Speaker 2: 1:09:45

Enzo is about to show up on TNA tonight cause he had a promo and boy, he's looking great. Well, he's always looked good and it's like Enzo. He went through the same shit and then what he do granted, he was acting a little stupid for a bit, a little a little I for a bit a little, a little stupid a little I'm. I'm putting it lightly, but you know, he he did act a little stupid, but afterwards he got his shit together, he laid low while it and did things on the side, and now he's about to come through and he's about to do some shit with, I think, one of the one, fatu oh, zilla Zilla Fatu.

Speaker 1: 1:10:33

Yeah, they're in a tag match or something like that him and Zilla.

Speaker 2: 1:10:38

they're doing something at Slammiversary, they're in a tag match, and so it's like, with that being seen, velveteen Dream could have been on that wave. He could have easily been on that wave, but he got in his own fucking way. Bro him being arrested twice him in that shirt, like all of this shit, and the thing was he was looking like he was going to make a little comeback, but no, I feel like Shawn Michaels and Triple H are just like anytime they would see like okay, paul Clark, god damn it, bro.

Speaker 1: 1:11:17

What are you doing, bro? I don't know why Hunter just didn't like yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo yo. Chill the fuck out. Okay, we're trying to get you back here.

Speaker 2: 1:11:30

I wish somebody could. I wish there was somebody on his end that was able to just talk to him and be like Yo yo yo yo yo yo yo yo yo yo yo yo yo yo yo yo yo yo yo yo yo yo yo yo yo yo yo yo yo yo. Just sit down, shut up and relax, let this shit blow, because regardless of how everything came up at the end of the day, it's not on your record. Therefore, until proven guilty, you're clean kind of thing, and whether how other people feel about it, freaking, you gotta let that shit bounce. You gotta push forward.

Speaker 1: 1:12:08

You're a petty-ass nigga bro.

Speaker 2: 1:12:13

Terrible fumble.

Speaker 1: 1:12:14

Petty-ass nigga Big fumble on this 100%.

Speaker 2: 1:12:19

It is us. That is a shirt that now I can't wear.

Speaker 1: 1:12:25

I can't just go outside of my Velveteen Dream shirt man, he could have been something special, something special and he's just fucking stupid. Anyway, there's that. There's Damien Sandow, complete fumble complete fumble and that's, that's not.

Speaker 1: 1:12:49

That's not the company yeah that that that was a company situation. But damian sandow, when he was the intellectual savior of the masses, god damn it man, that boy huh, he could have been one of the greatest Intercontinental champions ever. I truly feel like he may have gotten like one title run, like one heavyweight title run, just one, give me one. I'm okay with that Because I don't really think he should be in the title picture forever, like, give him that Kofi Kingston run. All right, he gets it. It don't last long, unfortunately, but you got it right and just keep him intercontinental for the rest of the run and I'm okay with that.

Speaker 2: 1:13:37

It's weird. I wonder why they did not for it. Because it's not like, because I feel as if there was a weird blind eye that was turned to him. Because he was good in the ring, his gimmick was over. And even when you gave him that shit gimmick, when he was like the Miz's stunt double, he got that over too. And then, you know, he had his match with John Cena, where he cashed in the money in the bank and he retired.

Speaker 1: 1:14:19

No, actually he went to NWA.

Speaker 2: 1:14:29

Okay, speaking of NWA, he, um, he went to, uh, nwa, okay, which, speaking of nwa freaking, there was a time where we was talking about nwa, about trying to watch, and he was like, oh no, that's not, it's not around anymore it still is.

Speaker 1: 1:14:41

It's not as around as it had. Like a tv spot, it's like twitter. Oh yeah, no, it's yeah, no, it's indeed a around as it had like a TV spot.

Speaker 2: 1:14:46

It's like Twitter. Oh yeah, no, it's, yeah, no, it's. It's indeed a uh, you can only watch that shit on YouTube, but yeah, no, that's what I meant by it.

Speaker 1: 1:14:55

It's no longer. It had a TV deal and everything. It lost his TV deal because of the booger sugar incident and um incident and um, that book is so good. I need to find out where I could watch. Wow, I want to.

Speaker 2: 1:15:10

I want to see what the product looks like for that nowadays. Now, what I feel was, uh, uh, a fumble wwe. In my opinion, they absolutely fumbled the Iconics. They fumbled the Iconics and TNA has done exactly what it needs to do?

Speaker 1: 1:15:28

Oh them, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, okay. Sorry, it took me a second. I'm like the Iconics and I had to remember. But yes, they are the inspiration. Yes, that's why I was confused. I'm like, yes, that's why I was confused, I remember the inspiration. But, yes, yeah, I will agree, I will agree, I will agree that it's a huge fumble as well, but hey, with TNA they have that second opportunity to make something of themselves. So that way, wwe can say undeniably hey, bring them back.

Speaker 1: 1:16:03

Well, I mean, they don't have to now because they're because you know tna and wwe they're, they're friends now, which is which is funny too, because when you brought up the real one, I'm surprised, like wd said hey yo, I know, you got that nigga going over there. We don't fuck with him over here. Well, I don't know if they don't fuck with him anymore, especially like after everything is calmed down.

Speaker 2: 1:16:25

And I mean, listen, if WWE can take back CM Punk, then I don't think there's a problem.

Speaker 1: 1:16:34

CM Punk didn't really do the shit that Fam CM.

Speaker 2: 1:16:38

Punk sued WWE bro.

Speaker 1: 1:16:41

I mean, yeah, but righteously so they fucking fired him on his wedding day, my nigga.

Speaker 2: 1:16:46

But listen, all that aside if you sue a business, do you think they're ever going to hire you back? If you sued where you work at right now win or lose do you think they're going to keep you? No, nah, they're not going to bring you back either. Nah, but WWE did. Gonna bring you back either? Nah, but WWE did, because wrestling is different. And at the end of the day, they was like hey, listen, I know we had our differences in the past. You know you tried to sue us and all this other stuff. However, there's money to be made. Are you willing to make it with us again? And CM Punk said hell, yeah, bro.

Speaker 1: 1:17:32

Why do I feel like, why do I? Why do I? I can I can literally see Paul in the fucking office with CM Punk, just like. Oh man, I know you don't like me and I don't like you, but there is money to be made. Are you wanting to make that money?

Speaker 2: 1:17:50

Do you want to get this bread with me? And CM Punk thought about it and after that horrible falling out he had with AEW, he's like you know what? Man? Let's get this money. Tell me when and where.

Speaker 1: 1:18:03

And how I want to shit on Tony Khan, and he has done it every second he can. Every second, I'm telling you. Let me see who Dolph Ziggler.

Speaker 2: 1:18:22

I'm surprised you didn't say Dolph Ziggler. I don't think they fumbled the bag with Dolph Ziggler per se, like I guess, in a sense, like yeah, they fumbled the bag, but like I mean I guess yeah, no, no, no, you're right.

Speaker 2: 1:18:43

But I wasn't going to say him per se only just because of the fact that, though they fumbled the bag, they still used him as much as they could in the way that they wanted. He still got paid, and I don't think where he's at right now, he needed them to go ahead and finish the fumble so he can go and be great somewhere else. Yeah, and so I also feel like there are people who they fumbled worse than Dolph Ziggler, like Wade Barrett. You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1: 1:19:18

I was about to say Shinsuke Nakamura. But yeah, Wade Barrett too.

Speaker 2: 1:19:21

Wade, barrett and all of Nexus. Now I can also agree that that they've fumbled the bag with shinsuke. Honestly, I often I really feel like they wwe does not know how to. I feel like they don't understand or know how to handle people who, who's, who's, who don't speak english as their first language, like I feel like japanese wrestlers should be honest well, I would say japanese wrestlers.

Speaker 2: 1:19:56

But I also feel like like there's a part that feels like like with stephanie here right now, like they're. It's like they don't know how to push those kind of people because, you know, with wwe they're very promo heavy. You know what I'm saying? But she speaks english though she does, but it's not as good as anybody else okay, is it?

Speaker 1: 1:20:25

I don't think. I don't think I've ever heard her cut a promo. But is it broken english? Because I don't think it's broken english it's she speaks. I would say she speaks slightly better english than eo sky, all right yeah, which is weird because like I've I've seen eo sky, I've met her, i've've spoken words to her. Her English is not that broken, unless I just didn't notice it, and maybe she probably spoke in like short things, but like even when she was—.

Speaker 2: 1:20:55

Because I've never looked up things or talked to some of these people, like there's a part of me that sometimes feel like— Like sometimes I'd be thinking'm like is wwe just trying to play up the fact that they are, you know, asian and tell them to not speak good english or something? Because, like, I've heard people talk about with shinsuke, uh, and say the fact that they've talked to shinsuke, he sounds perfectly fine, you can hear him and understand him, but then when in wwe, when shinsuke be talking, it's all like they make him sound like he's so japanese that he can only be speaking japanese type.

Speaker 1: 1:21:33

I do like the fact that they finally just started letting them speak their native language and just put subtitles like I'm perfectly fine with that, but just you then, unfortunately, would have to only make their promos like taped and I think a large.

Speaker 2: 1:21:52

Yeah, I think a large portion of that audience just wants to be able to do it live, and I think that's like the. I think that's like the hard pill to swallow when it comes to like the English audience versus like New Japan audiences, because in New Japan it doesn't matter what language you're speaking over there, kind of thing. So it's like they're, they accept it all the way through as where us english people you know, there I, I thank god we have not heard it, but like, uh, like in the past for certain people, like I've heard the speak English chants and craziness like that.

Speaker 1: 1:22:29

Or no with Io. They said go back to China. And she says Japanese bitch.

Speaker 2: 1:22:35

Yeah, stupid shit like that. But yeah, I feel Sometimes I feel as if the WWE be trying to push an agenda, because if I hear people say that Shinsuke speaks fine English and then when he cuts a promo, he always sounds like he's speaking very broken English and I'm like, alright, who's lying here?

Speaker 1: 1:23:01

a perfect example, and I love this. When Asuka did this, give me both. I don't know if you ever heard this.

Speaker 2: 1:23:10

What was she talking about?

Speaker 1: 1:23:12

She was talking about wrestling two particular people and they were giving me an option like who do you want? Whatever she says, give me both, and putting so much emphasis on both.

Speaker 2: 1:23:27

Now, oscar, I feel is different. I feel, oscar, she just be doing shit, just because she can do it.

Speaker 1: 1:23:34

Shit, bro, like that's why she's so fucking. Yes, like.

Speaker 2: 1:23:41

Oscar, which I love the fact that, like, when it comes to her character as being this Empress of Tomorrow, like when she came back, what was it? It was specifically when she came out there and she helped out Kairi Mm-hmm, bro, like I was telling Lili because she was watching it with my girlfriend she was like I was like was like fam Asuka is a different universe, bro. When she came out there and saved her and everything like the look on her face and the way that she like carried and was moving and everything, I was like yo Asuka, she's not here, bro, like I don't know where the fuck she is, but she's not here, my guy, and it's like she, she be so into what she's doing, like, which is why I just I love her character, because it's like her character is like like where everyone is like on this plane of existence, she's like on two different planes, the opposite direction, and and that's like just the mystique of her presence and her character. It's just so funny to me because you know she's just all like, you know so freaking, like, mesmerized and shit like that and the way that she moves.

Speaker 2: 1:24:56

I'm just like fam, like I want whatever oscar on. Like what's that potion like. What's she drinking, what is she smoking?

Speaker 1: 1:25:07

she's just. She's just a kabuki warrior, bro and I, and kabuki is that kind of theater too.

Speaker 2: 1:25:14

Yeah, kabuki is that kind of theater, kind of like kabuki, like does that, does that come in edible form? Like do I smoke that shit?

Speaker 1: 1:25:21

like anytime she does like I love that energy, like her energy is always great, like she's the kind of friend that if you hang out with her she's gonna be like yo, let's turn up, let's turn up. You're like bro, bro, bro, bro, like no, this is not.

Speaker 2: 1:25:37

I was like, let's turn up Oscar, we're at Denny's, like I don't think we need to do that here, like that is her. They don't even have those kind of drinks.

Speaker 1: 1:25:47

Actually they do now she's getting her pancakes and you're like bro Oscar, chill slice that like I failed she just be out here in a different universe, and it's great I think she's just like bro I'm gonna make the best out of any situation. That's what I think it is, thank god she does because? Because lord knows and that's another fumble. By the way, who what oscar's? Uh, they fumbled Asuka. I do believe they fumbled her in the main roster In NXT phenomenal run Once she hit that main roster. It's not the same aura.

Speaker 2: 1:26:36

When you talk about people who came from NXT to the main roster, there is a lot of fumbling that took place during those particular times. There is a list of fumbles that we can go down specifically with people going from NXT to WWE Because, like who is there?

Speaker 1: 1:27:02

We could say I don't know if I'm doing it right anymore. Undisputed error.

Speaker 2: 1:27:12

Well, they never, no, they just. Well. Wwe, they just fumbled them. Yeah. However, it's like WWE fumbled them and then Undisputed Error. Just, they've just never recovered from that fumble, like poor Adam Cole yeah, unfortunately, his career.

Speaker 1: 1:27:38

Yeah, well, he may have to retire, so we'll have to see, but I still feel like he'll be a great manager, but like, oh, he'd be, like he'll be a great manager.

Speaker 2: 1:27:45

I hope not, but like, oh, he'd be great. He would be a great man.

Speaker 1: 1:27:48

Which is weird because WWE was going to make him that at first, and they did the same to LA Knight, and look at him now. So I really feel like he could have got away with it after a while, dude, like just let it sit, and I understand he wanted to be with his boys, but I feel like, bro, if you just sort of sat that one out just a little bit, look at la night right now and some people they just don't want to take that chance.

Speaker 2: 1:28:11

They don't want to because, like that, because with what happened with him I feel what happened with him and then him leaving is the same thing that happened with keith lee. Keith lee came over and it's like they made him be Bearcat, keith Lee, and Keith Lee was not feeling that Bearcat shit. But I feel if Keith Lee could have just stuck it out, if he would have let the Bearcat stank melt off of him, in the same sense of how LA Knight let that freaking, what was that gimmick where he was the fucking male model shit, like if, if they just it's that whole thing of like yo, we just gotta let the if you just let, if you just let the process process, you know, go through that, you know hard beginnings with no fame, that you would have got somewhere potential, likeential, like I feel, as if, because you know how they like to test niggas, you know.

Speaker 1: 1:29:09

Yeah, it's basically like we're not going to push you to the moon immediately. Are you willing to take the trials and tribulations of what is the main roster push Okay, like, because I feel like that's currently with Carmelo Hayes. He ain't doing shit, but once it's his time, nigga. It's a patience is a virtue he will be him, he will be him.

Speaker 2: 1:29:38

He is waiting. He is waiting patiently now and I get. No one wants to wait Real quick, real quick, real quick.

Speaker 1: 1:29:48

What if Carmelo Hayes in the Street Profits became a thing?

Speaker 2: 1:29:56

did you look at that picture with Street Profits, carmelo Hayes and R-Truth fuck yes, nigga, give me that R-Truth, r-truth, fuck.

Speaker 1: 1:30:06

yes, nigga.

Speaker 2: 1:30:10

Give me that and AEW would probably work.

Speaker 1: 1:30:12

But WWE probably not. I don't think so.

Speaker 2: 1:30:16

I feel like it'd be, Because the question really would be what are you doing with it? Because WWE and factions I that like ever since dx, like wwe does not know how to host and run factions properly what about the shield?

Speaker 2: 1:30:42

I guess shield would be the next best faction that they've been able to run properly. Like cause, it's like cause. The other thing is, unlike how a W is right now, like a W they have lots of factions and they have lots of presentation for these large groups of guys, which is the reason why we have these fucking 8 man and 6 man and 20 man tag team matches and what not. And it's like, if there's anything that I know I can say that AEW does well, is they know how to push and promote and run groups of guys cause I mean the Don Callis family. They're like damn near 20 motherfuckers deep and them niggas be kicking ass, yeah, and they're making it work.

Speaker 2: 1:31:35

You know what I'm saying. It's funny because the Don Callis family reminds me of a group that Antonio made on his wrestling game, which was called House of M kind of thing, and it was kind of like where there was a manager and he would collect these collective of guys and pretty much they would be like under his band type situation and it's like that's what they have going on there. I think it's. I like it like, and Don Kalos is piece of shit as far as a good fucking piece of shit but it works.

Speaker 1: 1:32:16

Um, I find it interesting you say that too, because guess what? New Japan is very known for their fucking factions. It's cause you got bullet club, you got evil, you got fucking. Uh, what was the other fucking faction? Um TMD, tmdk. There's so many fucking factions in New Japan. Um fucking murder grandpa, his fucking faction. Something goon Um fucking Murder Grandpa, his fucking faction. Something.

Speaker 2: 1:32:49

Goon Murder Grandpa.

Speaker 1: 1:32:53

Yeah, that's what they call him, bro, because he literally is Murder Grandpa, something Goon, suzuki, goon. So many factions and they all hold the fuck up. So this is why I make that comment aw is just american, new japan for that reason. But there are so many fumbles. We could be here all day talking about these fumbles and I honestly would encourage the comment section. Oh, actually, before we leave, I have to do this. I've almost forgot real quick. This is specifically for one of our audience members. I promised them that I would have you comment on this. I almost forgot before we head out. What would we? Because I I promised them I was gonna make a clip specifically of you saying okay, look at this, look at this phone right here almost okay, I'm just, I'm glad I caught it all right, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool um biggest fumble of the week here okay, okay, okay, okay.

Speaker 1: 1:33:54

Uh, let me see here, it's right here, um okay, he says that he believes before you say it.

Speaker 2: 1:34:06

Who is the gosh? You got their name out okay, um, so it's um.

Speaker 1: 1:34:10

I can't pronounce it correctly. I want to say it's nader ssg. He says I don't know. I definitely will agree with you at one point. I believe that be that Becky is the best female well, best women's superstar in the history of the company and she had a great character development. It was more over than any of the women in the main event WrestleMania would have ever made it at the first evolution. Overall, she's the goat to me at the first evolution. Overall, she's the goat to me. And I said let me bring it up swag and see what his opinions on that is to you. I mean to you, yeah no, no, no, no, no.

Speaker 2: 1:35:02

My response to that is to you damn damn, no, no, no, no, no. My response to that is to you damn that's it, damn to glaze Becky Lynch in such a way of saying that in the company's history.

Speaker 1: 1:35:20

I did call him out on that.

Speaker 2: 1:35:21

I'm sorry, I called him out on that in the company's history, you putting her over Paige HA Lee, goddamn Trish Stratus, charlotte Flip Bro, take us to the outro. Take us to the outro. Take us to the outro bro.

Speaker 2: 1:35:45

Damn damn damn. Absolute crazy talk. Absolute crazy talk. All right, kayfabe aside, kayfabe aside, becky Lynch is good, all right, and this is, you know, putting all the Kayfabe and the bias aside. Becky Lynch is good and I will say, sure, she did work hard to get to where she is to a certain degree, but the only reason why she got to where she was is because, if Charlotte Flair and Bayley and Mercedes I'm sorry, sasha Banks okay, if we were to say that all three of them are the people who could fly Becky Lynch was holding on to their capes. Becky Lynch held on to their capes and when each of them had a moment where they stopped, becky Lynch slingshot to get to where she's at now, and that's why she is as big as what she seems, because she held on to them capes and when her time came, she.

Speaker 1: 1:37:18

Perfect example. Remember in Chrono Trigger when you used to race that guy in the New Future. Remember how I would never fully race him and I would just boom, boom, boom and when you get to that, finish like da da, da, da da. It's literally that.

Speaker 2: 1:37:35

It's literally that. That is Becky Lynch in a nutshell.

Speaker 2: 1:37:40

Oh man, and I mean more power to her for doing it, but I'm not going to sit here and say that she's better than all those girls that I just mentioned, because, when you look at it, she's not the one who made WrestleMania first out of all of them. She's not the one who got the big star showing when they were all in NXT. That was no one's talking about the greatest wrestling match of all time for the women's, and her name was in it. That spot belongs to people like Becky, charlotte Flair, bianca Asuka.

Speaker 1: 1:38:33

I will agree that she's not. I did make this comment. I said I don't think greatest of all time is the question. I would say she is a definite figure. But saying that she's the best in the would say she is a definite figure, but saying that she's the best in the company's history is a stretch.

Speaker 2: 1:38:49

But that's more than a stretch. I mean that, yeah, that's like a goddamn. Remember them old Stretch Armstrongs fucking Damn Damn.

Speaker 1: 1:39:00

Well, guys, if you would like us to read your comments. Oh, do you have any final thoughts?

Speaker 2: 1:39:07

Oh no, I was just going to say glaze your Becky lunch. You earned that right.

Speaker 1: 1:39:13

Oh man, I am somewhat there. I do agree on her being everything, but that's beside the point. If you would like to have your comment spoken out in the podcast in real time or, just you know, in Instagram or whatever social media, please feel free to comment. We will review them. I've been reviewing them lately especially. We will review it and we'll bring them on the pod. We may even do an episode of just you guys' comments. I would like that idea. You guys' comments.

Speaker 2: 1:39:43

I would like that idea. Listen, I would love to just have an episode of just straight us responding to comments and stuff that have been said and that.

Speaker 1: 1:39:53

That would be fun. That would be absolutely fun because I mean, we're planning on in the future going to panels and going to events, so this could prep us and get us prepared for that. Any final thoughts before we end this episode.

Speaker 2: 1:40:09

No, I, uh, everything we like this is it's having this being about fumbles. That has been this whole week, in a nutshell, just one thing being fumbled after another. But, that being said, I I don't think tna's gonna fumble tonight, because, boy oh boy, tna is on fire and I am hyped for slamiversary and, uh, I actually can't wait to watch it and possibly make some comments on it, because I I need some of that. I need, I need tna is like. I feel like this is about to be TNA's comeback to power and I'm stoked. Okay.

Speaker 2: 1:40:49

Well then, speaking of on fire one of the things that oh, the Seth Rollins get better, yes, get better.

Speaker 1: 1:40:54

Seth Rollins, one of the things that also is on fire is every stage and every particular pay-per-view that is always set up. The thing I'm trying to say is what is our favorite pay-per-views, what is our favorite stages of pay-per-views and it could be shows too. What is our favorite arenas or stages of wrestling history? To us, you know, like Best titantrons, best titantrons too, whatever Stages, whatever, but the whole setup. What is your favorite pay-per-view and what is your favorite stage and why? It's gonna be the next episode, and I got some great contenders. One of mine is gonna be Royal Rumble 2000. Because I love that.

Speaker 1: 1:41:41

I love that taxi, I love that taxi boy, jeff Hardy, flying off that taxi. I love that taxi boy. Jeff Hardy flying off that taxi was the magnum opus of that shit for me. But I want to leave it to you guys because, especially you're going to probably see it in our comment section. You want to pause it, put them in there. What is some of y'all's? And we look forward to seeing you then. But remember, the ring is sacred. The questions are real. Destruction is always guaranteed and this is going to be it for us here at the Big Brothers of Destruction podcast. It's the Masako. It's your boy Swag, switcher in the building. And until next time, guys, we will see you soon. Have a good one. Mwah Swag. End it off with your little catchphrase you always do all the time.

Speaker 2: 1:42:25

Wait, what's that one? Oh, that's right, ta-ta.

Speaker 1: 1:42:32

For now, see you guys.