Where Legends Walk

Remember when wrestling pay-per-views felt special the moment you saw the stage? The giant hooks of Backlash, the apocalyptic scenery of Armageddon, or the iconic SmackDown fist? Those days of creative wrestling presentation have largely disappeared, replaced by generic LED screens that fail to capture the magic of wrestling's visual storytelling.

In this nostalgia-filled episode, we dive deep into what made wrestling stages special during the golden era of WWE and WCW production. We examine how around 2007, the introduction of LED technology dramatically changed wrestling's visual landscape, sacrificing unique identity for uniformity and efficiency. From the classic WrestleMania sets that still maintain some creative spark to the forgettable modern designs, we trace this evolution with both criticism and appreciation.

Beyond the main topic, we tackle the controversial state of death match wrestling in mainstream promotions, arguing that the lack of selling aftermath destroys believability. We also discuss the recent announcement of ESPN+ pricing for WWE pay-per-views, calculating that being a complete wrestling fan now costs approximately $516 annually – pricing many viewers toward alternative viewing methods.

Whether you're a long-time fan who remembers these classic stages or a newer viewer curious about wrestling's visual history, this episode offers insights into how presentation contributes to the overall storytelling in professional wrestling. The ring is sacred, questions are real, but destruction is guaranteed!

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Chapters

• 0:00 Introducing Wrestling Stages Discussion
• 11:32 John Cena's Failed Heel Turn
• 42:33 Recent WWE and AEW Disappointments
• 1:12:26 Deathmatch Wrestling's Problems
• 1:46:31 ESPN Pay-Per-View Pricing Changes
• 1:59:36 The Golden Era of WWE Stages
• 2:15:21 LED Screens Killed Creative Stages

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:09

Welcome to another episode of the Big Brothers of Destruction podcast. It's the Masako. It's your boy. Swag Switch in the building and boy, we in the building today to talk about some wrestling. But we're going to also go about the stages that be in the building today to talk about some wrestling. And uh, but we're going to also go about the stages that be in the building, uh, when we're at wrestling events and we're going to talk about some of the best uh stages that we've seen throughout the years of as being wrestling fans. But uh, before we kind of get into our topic today, as usual, swag always updates with the wild world of wrestling information. I try to do that without putting the wild world wrestling, you know in there, but I mean, if it helps, you could just say the www, you know.

Speaker 1: 0:57

I mean, but I gotta say it like that, you know that I gotta, I gotta do it, cause it just, it comes with it. You feel me?

Speaker 2: 1:05

I'm just giving you an option you can stumble over your words as you.

Speaker 1: 1:12

Look, Seth Rollins, I don't always have an option B, okay.

Speaker 2: 1:18

But you do.

Speaker 1: 1:20

You're refusing to accept your option. You're goddamn right, because I do shit the way I do it anyway. Uh, swag, hit us with that www see how much easier that was.

Speaker 2: 1:34

Fuck off first, before I actually, before I get into super meat and potatoes I need, now that it's happened and you've had some time to marinate, it's okay to come clean. John Cena's heel turn was ass, full ass, full ass. Basuda Voodoooo. It's okay. You can take the rose colored glasses off. You can put your those circle ones that you have that cancels out that blue light that you be talking about, that you be wearing. Put those on. See clearly. Now fog and the rain is gone. It wasn't that it wasn't good. I won't even say that it wasn't good can we?

Speaker 1: 2:36

can we at least agree on the promos, at least in the beginning? You're having a really hard time no, you're telling me, the promos and the moments he had against certain people in promo battles were not good.

Speaker 2: 2:56

You're telling me those were ass those were okay, because they were trying really, really hard to sell us on this heel turn.

Speaker 1: 3:09

And that's what I'm saying, like despite the heel turn being trash, the only thing I feel like was at least good was the promos. That was it. Like matches, no, the reasoning, no, but like the back and forth in certain promos.

Speaker 2: 3:28

Fam. Until you promo like Will Ospreay versus Hangman Adam Page for the Owens Cup Finals. Until you promo like that, don't talk to me. None of that, shit matters None of that, shit goes close.

Speaker 1: 3:55

So you're telling me that's your favorite promo currently this year that is the promo of the year bro Okay.

Speaker 2: 4:03

Promo of the year Okay. So you know whatomo of the year, Okay. Right now nobody's beating that you know what, and I don't think anyone will beat that.

Speaker 1: 4:11

You know what. You know what I'll. Probably I will agree on that one. I will agree. But now I feel like, just because of this conversation, this is going to be next week's episode. I want you to stand on it Now. I want to hear what are your favorite promos of all time. I'm putting that down now.

Speaker 1: 4:31

Favorite promos of all time. It could be a back and forth, it could be a solo promo, whatever. But whatever promo that just made you say, just like how you said, that is the best promo of the year. And if you cannot give me something like that, I'm not sold.

Speaker 2: 4:50

Actually I know there's I think there's a couple of them that actually just that already come to mind.

Speaker 1: 5:00

I actually I'm actually have to think back on some, because I feel like I have so many different promotions that I have to cycle through a lot of them.

Speaker 2: 5:12

Oh yeah, no, there's a lot that would have to be cycled through to, for certain, get like that one and I feel like the only reason why I'm bringing that up and we go right back into it.

Speaker 1: 5:26

the only reason why I'm bringing that up is just for our audience. We are potentially starting up a wrestling promo show in the future. It's still in the works. We're working on that and for me and we're going to also do this on a Patreon thing too in the future so right now we're in the works of it. But for me, one of my things as a wrestling fans I know how to cut a promo, but I don't know how to book. And for swag swag is the booker. Swag that's just his characteristic, that's his trait. He loves gmo uh, we've been talking about even doing gmo as a patreon edition as well but for swag, being a booker is his thing. That's just what he does. He has an ability to see wrestling and say, okay, what makes sense for the business and what keeps the character strong All those characteristics you would need as a booker. I kind of need to know this because if we're going to work on this show, I want to also get into the mind of Swag Switcher when it comes to booking, what books, the situation and obviously, as a producer, most of the time they have to cut the promo. They have to edit the promo, but it all comes within booking. So I would like to see this in the future, just to understand the mindset of Swag Switcher. My apologies for overtaking the spot.

Speaker 1: 6:45

Let's get back to what you were saying before. To get into the original part, I will admit, yes, the John Cena heel turn was ass. I'll admit it. The whole situation I just said before. I just like certain. I like the fact that they tried. How about that? It was not good. I would give them the fact that they tried. How about that? It was not good. I would give them the fact that I like that. They literally had a shit sandwich and they tried to at least make it good. Was it good? No, but they tried, rather than just falling flat on his face and then going back face the next day.

Speaker 2: 7:24

I think. But well, it was, I think there. Well, the add to that piece about them, you know, trying they were in a position where they had no choice, but it's like the way it looked like. To me the way it almost came off was like they took an extremely big bomb and they dropped it in the deepest part of the ocean and let it blow up. It made a big explosion and you can see how big that explosion was and how powerful of an impact it would have had. But asides from killing a couple of fish, the bomb did nothing and it was just a waste of time, a waste of money and a waste of space and honestly I really feel like it's it was. It was more. It was mostly just that waste of time Because if you look back now and look at everything that John Cena has done up until this point, he could have done that exact same stuff as a babyface and it'd be hotter than ever.

Speaker 2: 8:43

We could have easily had John Cena go up against Randy Orton the way he did and I think it would have been so much better. Now I will say the CM Punk one would have been interesting how to spin it, because you know John Cena is good and CM Punk is in his baby face run right now. So it's like the John Cena, john Cena, cm Punk one would have been a different, would have been an interesting vibe kind of thing to figure out, but I feel as if they dropped the ball with that one, because if they're trying to you know, as everyone calls play the greatest hits on it right, the more intelligent thing would have to have those two face each other on TLC Instead of having that complete throwaway match with main event Uso and Cody and John Cena and Logan Paul. That was such a waste. Then again, tlc was a big waste. I don't even want to reopen that game.

Speaker 1: 9:54

We kind of have to. Well, I mean yeah.

Speaker 2: 10:01

TLC was a complete waste.

Speaker 1: 10:02

Complete waste. The last couple of pay-per-views, if you want to be real honest, have been a bit of a waste of time.

Speaker 2: 10:10

I'll be real, which, funny enough, that's kind of sort of been like the theme of this week, a real waste of time, like. Let me just say I sat down and I watched SmackDown. That was probably the most boring episode of SmackDown I have watched in a very long time and, as I always say, I'm very Paula Abdul when it comes to judging, I just love everything. Say, I'm very paula abdul when it comes to judging, I just love everything, but for it to bore me that badly for something to be so, because what I find boring someone will find death defyingly boring. As a matter of fact, I, I, I'm not. I didn't watch it today because I usually watch these during the week while I'm at work, or I should say I listen to them freaking that like JD from New York with his podcast failed.

Speaker 1: 11:14

I love how we both have like particular people. We watch like you with him and I just watch WrestleTalk, so so there's.

Speaker 2: 11:23

So I watch JD, I do watch WrestleTalk and I think the other shout outs to podcasts and the other podcasts I like watching he's and he doesn't he. Well, recently he's been doing the podcast format a bit more, but usually he'll do like, uh, you know, quick 15, 20 minute, like you know, blurts about certain situations that he sees, and he's ooh, I'm blanking on his name is it top 10?

Speaker 2: 11:52

no, it's not top 10, it's like. It's like, it's like behind the like, like before no, not before the bell podcast, which they're not bad either, but um, oh, man see, now I'm actually, I have to actually look at, um, I don't want to butch, is it a solo dolo.

Speaker 1: 12:11

It's a solo white dude.

Speaker 2: 12:14

Um, you're not talking about um off the mic sports network is what? There you go, it's his thing. Yeah, it's uh off the it. Well, he's off the mic sports network, but whenever he's doing his like talking about because he talks about regular sports too, but whenever he's not talking about sports he talks his uh, um, it's off the mic sports, and then when it's wrestling it's off the top rope.

Speaker 1: 12:37

So oh okay, yeah, I do off the top rope. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and it's I think it's not an actual, it's like an actual news, and then, every once in a while, they'll do the off the top rope, right.

Speaker 2: 12:51

Well, I only see his off the top rope stuff. Okay, I remember Because I don't know if he's part of like a larger conglomerate, but specifically it's just this one guy and I'm like this man has a lot of white t-shirts. Cause, actually, I'm wrong? Cause I just noticed, maybe every once in a while, I mostly notice that he's like always wearing like a white t-shirt, but as soon as I said that his last video, he's wearing a gray t-shirt, just to shut me up he just no, he just said y'all, I just switched it up just to just to swag, just to tell me Shut up swag.

Speaker 2: 13:25

You don't know shit, bro. That's crazy. But, um, but yeah, no, like Freaking Jadie from New York, he, I want to see him like Define the actual, the actual whatchamacallit Cause, like I know when he be talking His shit.

Speaker 1: 13:43

He be talking his shit, fam, he be going off, bro he be talking his shit, he be talking his shit Fam he be going off, bro, he be talking his shit.

Speaker 2: 13:52

Which fam his crash outs are the best, or like the song that plays. I was saying best of the best of the best, that's what his crash outs are. But it's like I like him because he is brutally, unforgivingly right sometimes and he doesn't cut the bullshit on it, and it's great.

Speaker 1: 14:21

I thought you were going to say he was just honest. A lot of us are honest, but you just mean like no, no, say he was just honest. I mean a lot of us are honest, but you just mean like no, no, he's just right.

Speaker 2: 14:32

Which, according to the community which I've come to now understand, it's what they call it, the IWC community.

Speaker 1: 14:42

now, Internet Wrestling community.

Speaker 2: 14:46

Yeah, that's apparently what the community that we have put our dipped our toes into. Now, yeah, and also another thing from this, watching these, listening to these podcasts, I've now come to understand what is that level beyond the mark, which is what they call, is a sicko. I don't know if you've heard that term. No, mostly referred to people who watch AEW and glaze AEW even though there's nothing to glaze.

Speaker 1: 15:19

Oh, so he's saying like those people that do what are sickos?

Speaker 2: 15:23

So yes, like those people that do it are sickos. So, yes, okay, so, from what I've come to understand, sickos are pretty much like those like super wrestling fans that like have the absolute worst opinions about things. Yeah, or they like stick, or most of the time. Mostly sickos are the ones that are. Most of them are AEW sickos. Those are the worst ones because they're the ones that are. Most of them are AEW sickos. Those are the worst ones because they're the ones that are all like because what was it Apparently like last week? Somehow AEW actually had really good ratings for once and like they actually beat like NXT, apparently, and it's all like. You know, they were talking about how the sickos are going to be all like. Oh see, see, look at that, aew is up.

Speaker 1: 16:12

We can work big things right now. That dumb shit, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 16:18

Sickos. But um yeah, no, like SmackDown was garbo dog Freight Basuda, Absolute Poodoo, a Snoop. If it wasn't for the fact that I had just woke up from getting eight hours of sleep, that shit would have put me back to sleep this morning.

Speaker 1: 16:43

I ain't gonna lie. I ain't gonna lie, that whole segment of Cena coming out there and then Cody coming to save him. Is it me? I noticed that the internet community also likes to make fun of Cody's run. In his walk he has that old man walk where he's like bring your ass back, that old man walk. I never like bring your ass back, that old man walk. Uh, I've never noticed, yeah, but there's a. There's literally a green screen video of him walking up to the the throne and he does that anytime when he's trying to approach somebody, he just does this particular walk and then two when he runs, he always runs like he's trying to tiptoe on one side, like only one side of his body has the momentum of what he's doing, or I kind of feel like he's only doing it because he's getting ready to position himself to slide under the ropes, like you know.

Speaker 2: 17:38

I might have to like watch and see this now. See this thing about Cody Rhodes, because I've never noticed it myself.

Speaker 1: 17:47

Yeah, it's a funny thing, but go ahead, sorry.

Speaker 2: 17:49

Because, like so SmackDown, literally the only things that I wrote down was Samus showed up and he beat Solo. Alright, cool, whatever.

Speaker 1: 18:01

Montreal.

Speaker 2: 18:04

John Cena got beat up by Drew and Paul, paul London or Logan, paul Jesus, and then they had their and then they had the, the triple or, I'm sorry, they had the tag team match, just to end in a DQ no contest type situation.

Speaker 1: 18:30

Because they don't want to sell the outcome here, they're selling it at Clash of Paris.

Speaker 2: 18:35

But at Clash of Paris it's not a tag team, it's Logan Paul and John Cena and Drew and Cody.

Speaker 1: 18:43

Which is a dumbass setup. I don't know what the fuck they were doing there. Wait so real quick. You didn't like the. Charlotte Flair and Alexa Bliss. Charlotte Flair is getting back on my good side, all right. She's getting back on my good side with the. We're not friends. I will say she is popping the fuck off with these outfits Like she normally is, but like it's like her. Popping the fuck off with these outfits Like she normally is, but like it's like her popping the fuck off is. I am queen, I am also that bitch. So she's always been here. Just now she's like no, I'm also that bitch. Let me start pulling out that shit, right here she's always been.

Speaker 2: 19:24

You've just been blinded by her queendom because you don't like it.

Speaker 1: 19:27

That's what's happening I just said she, she, her outfits be popping, but these most recent ones, no, no no, you, you said that's the thing that.

Speaker 2: 19:37

No, no, oh okay, no, the most recent ones. Yeah sure they've been popping, because you've taken off those glasses and you're seeing with your true eyes. Now, here we go, here we go, here we go, here we fucking go. Where you say they just now started popping, bro, they've been popping, they've been popping this whole fucking time. You were just too busy, blinded by hatred, over here embracing the hate and shit.

Speaker 1: 20:06

First off, I would call it hatred, Because I mean, again, I've always said she was the queen. I admit it, I think it was. Only was it just me and you in the chat at one point, For what? I think it was a lot of people in the chat that weren't really a fan of Charlotte at one point and you was like nah, still the queen. And I know, every time I have seen one of her matches I'm like yo, Charlotte's the fucking best I've always done that.

Speaker 2: 20:34

Oh yeah, no, the group chat. I don't think there's ever been a time where the group chat, like I want to say, ever since Charlotte's been called up to the main roster, 80% of the group chat's been on that. Not fuck Charlotte, because she stomped out literally everybody's main, which is what happened. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

Speaker 1: 20:59

So it was like you were like Charlotte is here. I was like, nah, you got to give it to Charlotte. Charlotte's the fucking better right. I would do that, especially in her matches. But yeah, like, was I a super duper, fucking Charlotte fan?

Speaker 2: 21:12

Not really, but I could respect her and say she's fucking amazing, which, at the end of the day, it's like I get it, I can understand, and I get it, I can understand and I get why. Cause, once again, like if when I settled full thrall in the camp Charlotte and whatnot, it's like and everyone has their own camps at their end. I don't think there is a point where Charlotte has not walked into somebody's campus, said hey, I live here and if you don't like it, eat shit. And then the person was like I don't like it. And then Charlotte proceeded to alright, open wide, eat this shit. And then now everyone's upset.

Speaker 1: 21:59

What the fuck my nigga. What the fuck was that?

Speaker 2: 22:03

Charlotte feeding people shit. That's what I'm saying Because a good prime example of this and this is the reason why most people have so much heat towards Charlotte when Asuka came up and she was out here doing the thing.

Speaker 1: 22:19

Oh yeah, nigga. I'm sorry I was on that man wagon too, nigga.

Speaker 2: 22:23

Yeah, exactly, and you know what Charlotte told you to do. Alright, open wide.

Speaker 1: 22:29

And you had to eat that shit bro. Nah, bro, so you telling me it was valid for Charlotte to end Asuka's momentum?

Speaker 2: 22:41

Was it? I don't know, maybe. So you're saying it was a good call for Charlotte to win that?

Speaker 1: 22:44

match, was it? I don't know. Maybe I mean so you're saying it was a good call for Charlotte to win that match a good call.

Speaker 2: 22:52

I actually can't really say if it was good or not.

Speaker 1: 22:54

Come on, my nigga, you take off the rose fucking color glasses, bro.

Speaker 2: 22:58

Let's be real, man, let's be real but so I guess, in that case then who Especially at that?

Speaker 1: 23:09

time At Charlotte, okay, but at that time it wasn't time for it to end yet. It was not time for it to end yet because she literally just came from NXT where she was dominating, having that momentum, and, yeah, maybe it probably wasn't a smart idea to put her immediately in front of Charlotte, but that's what they did and it's like, well, I guess that really wouldn't be a Charlotte thing, that would be a booking thing. That would be like, hey, asuka is red hot right now. We probably should put her, maybe against a couple other people. They're like, nah, let's put her in front of Charlotte. And then, yeah, if you think about how they're going to book Charlotte, yeah, booking her to win nine times out of ten would probably happen, but I just don't feel like it should have been done.

Speaker 2: 23:59

I feel like it killed Asuka's momentum. See, the only problem is and now Grant, I'm not, I have to look at the roster a little more clearly, but if you look back on there it's it's one of those like, if not her, then then who? Because what? It's one of those things where I feel like they kind of sort of uh, kind of like what what aew has kind of done, where they kind of booked themselves into a bit of a shoot, because I would say this is that's almost the equivalent of having Mercedes, a thousand belts, monet going up against the current women's champion in AEW, one in Tony Storm.

Speaker 2: 24:36

And then it's like okay, so we have almost essentially this undefeated woman over here and we have the woman's champion who is top of the company over here, and it's like either they cancel out or one's gonna bury the other. And so it was like either A, we let Asuka cause, if they cause. It was like either a, we let oscar, because if they, because it's like either a, we let oscar stomp out charlotte, but then now, if charlotte was the best of the best of the best right now, and then we have her get stomped out by oscar, then it's like now Asuka has already ran through and left a trail of bodies in her own wake at this point, and so it's like they don't know how to run monsters correctly. They don't know how to run Goldbergs properly, and so it's like, instead of easing her into a loss, they just immediately put her up against their top woman who is doing some of the best work possible and they're like and then that happens, and now Asuka is beautiful, Although I don't.

Speaker 2: 26:01

I don't think I think at the time it felt like it hurt Asuka a whole bunch, but I don't think in a super long run it completely killed her. I mean because after that she still became a champion again later on, type thing, but it made her beatable.

Speaker 1: 26:18

But at the end of the day it's really hard for me to say whether it was the right call, because that's like me trying to say if brock lesnar beaten undertaker for the streak was the right call, kind of thing, because you're pretty much putting it in the sense of like a monkey's paw situation, like no matter what, even if yeah, was it the right time, or if it wasn't the right time I mean we got the cards we were dealt, let's just do what we got to do. And I feel as if, whether phil's going to be the right time or if it wasn't the right time I mean we got the cards we were dealt, let's just do what we gotta do.

Speaker 2: 26:45

And I feel as if, whether if it was gonna be the right time or not, we was probably gonna be pissed off with who it was gonna be afterwards, because, lord knows, I'd be pissed off if it was Becky Lynch, because you just don't like Becky. Yes, I don't like Becky, but they would have done some dumb shit like that. At least they had oscar go up against somebody who at that moment it looked believable for her to get that dub or to lose dude, because if I, if you can try and recall, could you put anybody else in that spot besides charlotte flair, if you could think back that far to the women that we had no, I mean there was nobody that could have did it.

Speaker 1: 27:31

It was. I'm not saying that wasn't the case like, oh, charlotte shouldn't have done it, it was more. So I didn't think they did it.

Speaker 2: 27:38

They should have did it that early but I also feel it's like, because at the time it did feel like they probably should have done it that early. But then if they would have let Charlotte beat her, then there's that weird spot of like, well, you can't turn around and let Charlotte beat her again. And then it's like if Charlotte especially since Charlotte was kind of sort of being booked as like the top woman, it would look crazy if she lost to Charlotte. But like, especially since Charlotte was kind of sort of being booked as like the top woman, it would look crazy if she lost to Charlotte. But like, but Sasha.

Speaker 1: 28:18

Banks beat her, or Bayley beat her, or Natalya beat her. Oh God forbid, it better not be no, goddamn Natalya. Then who, brother who? I told you that we already agreed on it. But here's the thing. What I'm trying to say is you literally bring her up to the roster, right, okay, your NXT. The NXT roster is not supposed to be the equivalent of the main roster. Have her do some main roster matches first. Where she's winning, establish her that she, if not obviously charlotte's first. But where is oscar placed on the totem pole? But many, you do that again. You showcase that she's beatable. But I was just saying that, with that fact, if you can at least give her some matches to establish who she was in the main roster and then if you want to put her in front of Charlotte, cool, do that. But like to basically say that NXT, yes, she blew over all those women and in the main roster she can't really create that same magic, almost like a one hit wonder.

Speaker 2: 29:20

I don't think so only because of the fact that they let that streak carry over, like they acknowledged her undefeated streak when she came over to the main roster, which you know sometimes, because WWE does that thing where everything counts until they don't feel like letting it count, no more counts until everything counts, until they don't feel like letting it count, no more. So it's like sometimes they will be like oh yeah, her, uh yeah, the stuff that happened in nxt did happen. It's canon. And sometimes they'll be all like oh yeah, we're just going to ignore that nxt run. But they didn't ignore her nxt run and I'm pretty certain I'll have to look it up. But I'm pretty certain I'll have to look it up, but I'm pretty certain she had a couple of matches with other females and put them in the place leading up to Charlotte Flair, so she didn't just come up and then you know, it kind of felt like it, like I said before, the with the time span.

Speaker 1: 30:26

It felt like it was just way too soon. But, um, going back to the root, I mean cause I felt like we, going from the the we're not friends segment, went back into the uh, the shark conversation. Um, you didn't like that segment. We're hurting Alexa, bliss.

Speaker 2: 30:48

You didn't like that segment With her and Alexa Bliss. You didn't like that segment at all. It didn't help. Smackdown Like if I was to pick one thing that was fun yes, that might have been, that was the funnest thing there but then it was followed up with a I don't care match. So it was like it's like. It's's like SmackDown did this. John Cena came out Short Flash segment.

Speaker 1: 31:21

That was SmackDown. I wish you'd have kept that line on the screen. I would have edited that. But I get what you mean. Where basically SmackDown. I wish you'd have kept that line on the screen, I would have edited that. But I get what you mean when basically SmackDown was not appealing at all. I also will say making Ron Killings R-Truth again. How did you feel about that? Once again, the Smackdown was absolute garbage I am continuing with what you want absolute absolute garbage.

Speaker 2: 31:53

Absolute garbage, like because once again they dropped the ball, like all this smackdown did was be all like, alright, cool, number one. Everything that happened that dealt with the John Cena heel turn is absolute trash. R-truth was not supposed to come back to work and they've made that very clear. And then, uh, made that very clear, and then that's about it. Really, nfts and we're not friends. You know just.

Speaker 1: 32:38

I wish I could think that NFT thing is so stupid.

Speaker 2: 32:43

Yeah, it's pretty bad. This new, this new. And then to go up from that because once again, I haven't watched Collision. But seeing as how I have not seen any posts about Collision, it must not have been that great to start, but AEW was really no better. The only things that I really noted about AEW was Darby Allin's coming for the Death Riders. Yeah, mjf is out of the Hurt Syndicate. Yeah, that was a big waste of time.

Speaker 1: 33:22

That was. That really pissed me off, though I ain't going to lie, that was a big waste of time.

Speaker 2: 33:26

That was that really pissed me off, though I ain't going to lie, like honestly I could almost compare MJF's hurt syndicate situation almost comparably to like the John Cena heel turn. But I think the MJF one was more of a waste of time because of the fact that we had this super big build up, week after week, him trying to get in, him trying to get in, he brings to, he brings the car, he gives away the watch, he brings the hose, like he does all this stuff, and they're like alright, you know what you're in. And then he's there for like a month and then all of a sudden they're like you know what we actually don't want you in? No more, you're out. So alright, cool, cool, um, swerving, okada's happening. Now, once that, all right, cool, cool, swerve and Okada's happening.

Speaker 1: 34:29

Now, once that, I don't give a fuck about that match, I don't fucking care. I'm like these are two wrestlers I should never see in a ring together. And I'm sorry to say that, because a lot of people will say, oh, these are dream matches. What a dick. These two niggas' styles clash so hard it's ridiculous. Okay, so the fact that you even thought it was a good idea to put them in the ring together is like nigga. You are literally the equivalent of us as kids picking a toy out of a box and saying I guess these two can fight. What the fuck? No, no, I literally felt like Tony Khan, as a wrestling fan, was literally a kid with a bunch of toys, just picking up shit, just going you know, what's crazy is that 90% of the podcast that I watch says that exact statement.

Speaker 2: 35:26

verbatim Is that Tony Khan is just a kid who just has enough money to afford all these wrestling toys and he's just grabbing a couple out the box and he's making the matches. No fucking way.

Speaker 1: 35:41

You gotta send me that, because I'm definitely making that a clip now. That's crazy.

Speaker 2: 35:47

Oh listen, jd from New York says the shit all the time, freaking off the mic, off the top rope all the time, like these dudes religiously say this if you can give me a clip of one of them saying that I will literally make this clip, I will gladly but it's true, but it's true, and it's true, though.

Speaker 2: 36:08

And another thing. Now, once again, this is without me watching Collision right now. However, I do know the main thing that was supposed to happen in Collision is that Kyle Fletcher is supposed to fight um um, I forget his name. Japanese wrestler.

Speaker 1: 36:30

But he's supposed to defend his title against him.

Speaker 2: 36:31

No, not Koto, no, no, no, no, this is Takeshi. No, they're on the same team. They're part of the same family, bro, although I don't know Takeshi Sabata From the Ops.

Speaker 1: 36:41

This is not a main event guy. No, I don't know Takeshika's been Sabata From the Ops.

Speaker 2: 36:47

This is not a main event guy. This is like he's like the Bulldog or something like that.

Speaker 1: 36:56

Oh Stone, yeah, okay, I know what you're talking about.

Speaker 2: 36:58

Stoneface, whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 37:01

I know his name and his name, for some reason, out of all Japanese wrestlers, is not kicking in right now, but I know his name and his name, for some reason, out of all Japanese wrestlers, I know, is not kicking in right now, but I know who you're talking about the Bulldog.

Speaker 2: 37:07

yeah, yeah, yeah they're supposed to be fighting. They were supposed to fight in collision, which I'll probably watch that while I'm doing my thing at work. But like, yeah, no, it's like AEW. Aew has this pay-per-view that's called Forbidden Door oh okay, go ahead, talk about it.

Speaker 1: 37:24

AEW has this pay-per-view that's called Forbidden Door. Oh okay, go ahead and talk about it.

Speaker 2: 37:29

Well, there's nothing really to talk about, because there's nothing for the way I can almost explain this pay-per-view right now. As it currently stands, forbidden Door looks like Survivor Series when they don't have a five-man or a ten-man tag team match no when they don't have a five-man tag team.

Speaker 1: 37:49

Remember how back in the day in the Federation years, they actually made teams that have significant names to them and shit yes they did, and then in the early 2000s, survivor Series was just a pay-per-view and they just stopped doing the tag team thing.

Speaker 2: 38:08

That's what Forbidden Door feels like. Forbidden Door does not have a lot of forbidden doors being opened Like I think they're going to have Right now. I think the only match that's got any kind of forbidden doors being opened is the one for Mercedes Monet's TBS title. It's supposed to be like from CMLL, someone from New Japan, goddamn Billy Goat's wife, and then Mercedes.

Speaker 1: 38:55

I like how, at first, when you said Billy Goat's wife, I was like nigga, daniel, brian, brian Daniels, or like, wait, you're talking about fucking Will Ospreay. No, no, no, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 39:07

No, no, it's just because they're both. Just to clarify they're both goats. Yes, yeah, just to clarify. Brian Danielson, daniel Bryan. He will always be referred to by his name, all right, willie Ospreay, he is the Billy Goat, alright, always and forever will be the Billy Goat. So just to make that clarification for all onlookers the ladies is crazy, but alright, go ahead. Paul, whoa, whoa whoa don't give me that crap. Will Osprey is Will Osprey.

Speaker 1: 39:46

I'm not saying he's not. It was just like I said okay, like how you talk about, I used to glaze John Cena. It's like yo go ahead, glaze him, go ahead, like how you do that. I'm doing that to you right now. Now you know how that feels, so continue.

Speaker 2: 40:00

But um, but, um, but um but it comes to a right now see, I usually have one of those for, like, when I'm at work and I usually have my other cup here, but that has a lot of liquor in it and I'm icing that liquor for later and so I don't want to get lit on the pod. But uh, but yeah, like the other thing. Now I will say, comparatively speaking, I think AEW kind of had the slightly better night, or at least compared to SmackDown, because AEW has some high points, like you know, who do I want to bring up? Like I really like what they're doing with MJF and Briscoe.

Speaker 2: 40:57

Yeah, this whole thing with MJF and Briscoe, like it's starting to cook for me, you know what I'm saying. It made me emote a little bit whenever that match happened because I was you know, I kind of popped for that a little bit because I was like damn, that's crazy. But I will say a lot, the wrestling community, they are not with any of these matches going into Forbidden Door, and I can understand because the booking has been weird, because we have two people with contracts, kind of like Money in the Bank, contracts. Right, we have two people. One of them is holding on to the contract and is trying to manipulate himself into a match with the champion without cashing to the contract and is trying to manipulate himself into a match with the champion without catching the contract. The other person has literally laid out the champion twice and has looked her in the face and been like I'm not going to catch this in on you yet, even though you are laid out in the middle of this ring and it would make so much more sense if I just pinned your ass right now.

Speaker 2: 42:16

But you know what not do it. Why, why, why, why would you do something so stupid? And it was going to be even worse for me, because at this point she has no choice but to get this. She has no choice but to win. Because if she goes all the way to forbidden door and she gets into that ring and she loses, I'm gonna be mad, I'm gonna be fired the fuck up. I'm gonna be mad, i'ma be fired the fuck up, i'ma crash out. Probably I'ma hit a JD level crash out. A JD level crash out dog doesn't make any fucking sense doesn't make any fucking sense.

Speaker 1: 43:25

John Cena, she's John cena with the briefcase. Bro, I'm gonna cash it in on this day, but you know, but see the difference with john cena, is he sure?

Speaker 2: 43:36

he announced that I'm gonna cash it on this day and I want you to be ready for that match, cool. But john cena didn't proceed to like go into a match that who the champion had and was like, hit him with an aa boom and then, after he hits him with the aa, stands over him and holds the briefcase up above the guy, as opposed to giving it to the referee, who's still standing in the ring.

Speaker 1: 44:02

Yo, that shit happened in real time. I was like oh my God, yeah.

Speaker 2: 44:12

You understand how stupid.

Speaker 1: 44:13

I just look right now.

Speaker 2: 44:17

Do you know how they got Athena out here? They got Athena out here looking like a dumb blonde right oh my God, out here. They got Athena out here looking like a dumb blonde Right. Athena out here looking like she's so clever. I got your number, tony Storm. I hit you with the old face twice and I stood over your lifeless body with my contract. It didn't cash in because I'm so confident at the pay-per-view. I'm going to beat you, even though I already laid you out twice and no one was going to help, because we've already made it clear the fact that you know Toni Storm doesn't have anyone on her side right now that can truly help her. But you know we're going to wait. By the way, athena, she's the heel. That's the other difference between her and John Cena. John Cena was still a baby, so Athena's a heel, but we're gonna wait. Cash, we're gonna wait for a bit.

Speaker 1: 45:20

Anyway, wrong, wrong, however, hold on how the fuck you gonna go, how the fuck you gonna go from SmackDown as you went backwards in the fucking week. My guy, what the fuck.

Speaker 2: 45:41

Because irrelevancy and importance. That's where it is. Smackdown was barely worth talking about. Aew was, eh, some, there's some choice, there's some booking choices. That were some fucking booking choices. But, like you know, if you take their greatest wrestlers on the earth thing away, like it was very it was meh. Where SmackDown was just bad, aew was meh.

Speaker 1: 46:16

Or, as WrestleMania says, the good, the bad and the downright ugly. I mean SmackDown would be the downright ugly, downright ugly, downright ugly indeed. So real, quick, but raw about what you got to say here um, one of the reasons why I probably did not watch Collision is cause my nigga, you told me the ending of Collision last week was Dustin Rose putting thumbtacks in a man's underwear and kicking him in the dick. And he still continues to wrestle as if nothing fucking happened.

Speaker 2: 47:00

I mean, jon Moxley fell on a bed of nails and won his title match, okay. Jon Moxley took a spike board to the back Okay, and walked out of there as if he barely broke a sweat or something, okay, but here's the difference, my nigga.

Speaker 1: 47:24

Okay, he got off that bed of nails and he got off that board. The spikes are still in your drawers, bro. So any motion or anything you're doing until the match is over, you got tacks on your nuts and them fucking Speedos ain't fucking got no room, bro. It's you and me. At that point, it's metal on me what's the point you're trying to make?

Speaker 1: 47:58

that's fucking insanity, bro. You telling me I'm supposed to continue to have this man believe that this man is still continuing this match and your first thought process is get these fucking tacks out my drawers and in two also two, two Dustin. Dustin losing the fucking belt after he just got the belt became a transitional champion.

Speaker 2: 48:21

That shit pissed me off and I was like alright, man, probably ain't gonna watch that shit but you're't gonna watch that shit, but you're still gonna watch these matches, these death matches with Jon Moxley, where he'll then, after having this blown-out death match, come out there the next show like the death match never happened.

Speaker 1: 48:45

Nigga. I watch death matches where niggas actually do a fucking brain buster off of a fucking building into a pile of tables and light tubes. Okay, that shit's normal for me. Alright, ain't nothing that's gonna be like? Oh well, that's too crazy, nigga. I've seen crazier things than no promotions. And then niggas come back the same day too, and he's from that era. So in my brain that makes sense, because john moxley used to wrestle for czw and that nigga did some crazy shit. And this is supposed to be john moxley's character from the indies. Now, if this was Dean Ambrose, probably not, because Dean Ambrose has never shown that, but as Jon Moxley, as my history has shown, he's been doing shit like that. So for him to come back next week and be like, yeah, no, he did just do this crazy ass match one time and he came back the next week. So yeah, that's Moxley.

Speaker 2: 49:46

Maybe that's why you're not that great of a booker. That makes sense. That makes sense. But going back into Raw here, so for one apparently, Seth Rollins' group is called the Vision, which I'm kind of proud of myself because I definitely called that name.

Speaker 1: 50:08

I think you did say that, yeah, oh no, I definitely did.

Speaker 2: 50:14

I can now just call them Vision, but before this I've just been referring to as Seth Rollins' Vision. That's what I call it.

Speaker 1: 50:23

Oh, you said Seth Rollins' Vision. That's what you said, yeah.

Speaker 2: 50:27

Which it's still what it is. Just, I don't have to say it's Seth Rollins' vision anymore. I can now just call it a vision, I guess. But um, For one, I love my tribal thief as he rocks his shoe Apollo, I love him to death. Brunson Reed is my guy. Always has been hashtag tsunami. That's all y'all really need to know about Raw.

Speaker 1: 51:03

Oh him stealing shoes again that's all you careall really need to know about Raw. Oh, him stealing shoes again. That's all you care. So you're telling me that segment alone was what made Raw For me. Yeah, get the fuck out of here, man. So you're telling me one segment can make a show better, but then, like the segment with Charlotte and Alexa, that can't make a show for you.

Speaker 1: 51:29

But this can all right, so I want you I'm not, I'm just trying to, I'm trying to understand. I'm trying to understand in a sense of a segment can save a show.

Speaker 2: 51:41

Yes, a segment can save a show. Yes, a segment can save a show to a certain degree. Let me put it this way the thing with Charlotte Flair yeah, that segment was great, but it wasn't great enough to fucking dig that garbage show out of a hole. It couldn't. That Charlotte Flair segment, with her and Alexa Bliss, was not strong enough to make up for. Oh, our truth is just our truth again. And oh, fucking garbage. Finish to this tag team match. Or oh, barely anything actually happened on this show. Oh, barely anything actually happened on this show.

Speaker 1: 52:24

So it's more so in a sense of a. A single segment itself cannot save a really shitty show. But, like, since raw was decent with the content, it had this segment it's. It technically makes the show. Because that's what I was curious about. Are you saying like a segment can save a show if the rest of the show? Because that's what I was curious about are you saying like a segment can save a show if the rest of the show is trash?

Speaker 1: 52:50

no, oh yeah, no no that's what I was trying to understand if you're trying.

Speaker 2: 52:54

No, for me, a segment can't save a show. If the whole show is trash, okay segment. If anything, all the segment does is be all like it. It makes the show memorable for something else other than garbage okay, so just I'm trying to understand your rating as well oh well, number one, let me say raw was good, raw was actually good, going like that we act.

Speaker 2: 53:23

This this week was kind of sort of like a good, bad and the ugly. I just started with the ugly first and made my way up, but it's like raw was actually good, like everything with the vision was great from the, the beginning shit. And then the stuff that was at the end, the vision was was perfectly great for the show, kind of messed up that they cut off naomi's promo, um. And then of course there was the uh becky lynch and nikki bella situation oh that, oh, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 54:01

So now I'm curious what'd you think of it?

Speaker 2: 54:07

I mean Becky Lynch did drop a bomb on Nikki Bella and that's it actually.

Speaker 1: 54:16

I feel like that bomb is actually better than the pipe bomb, the John Cena pipe bomb.

Speaker 2: 54:23

I mean, there's a lot of things better than the John Cena pipe bomb. Brother, you're the one who's got the rose colored glasses on? Nah, nah, nah. You're the one who's got the rose-colored glasses on? Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah. You're the one who is stuck on John Cena.

Speaker 1: 54:35

I said I only popped the fuck off. I didn't say I didn't say I thought it was great. I said I popped the fuck off because I knew what was happening. That's what I said.

Speaker 2: 54:46

Well, I mean that's fine, it's fine You're allowed to pop the fuck off. But like there's John Cena's pipe bomb promo is not like even in a top 20. Or 30, for that matter, for this year. Hell, if we really want to get into it. John Cena's earlier promos were definitely earlier. Heel turn promos were definitely better than the pipe. So if we're going to rate some of John Cena's promos here, but like literally everything about it's almost as if like the wrestling week started out with a bang with Raw and then it just slowly got shittier and shittier and shittier To the point where I'm like man, I'm almost worried to watch Collision, because if it is going that trail, if SmackDown was ass, collision is diarrhea Presumably. But I can't say I haven't watched it. But like Seth Rollins and LA Knight, that match and stuff like that, which I almost kind of mapped that match because it almost like undermine, it's all like man, this big moment for LA night and then it got shat on by CM Punk and Roman Reigns.

Speaker 1: 56:03

Yeah, I've been doing that with him for a while though but not just with him.

Speaker 2: 56:08

As a matter of fact, I don't know if you've been noticing, but I feel as if, like, wwe is doing this weird thing where they're repeating history Cause it's like they've been doing some very early eighties uh, uh booking where it's like, hey, we're going to gonna have our biggest stars in these matches and, because this isn't a pay-per-view match, these matches are gonna win them. Disqualifications, draws and no contests.

Speaker 1: 56:43

They've been doing that for years. Yeah, it's a very annoying thing. They haven't been doing that for years. I feel, as if I mean mean, they will do it, but it hasn't been what. I mean, like it's a frequent yeah. Yeah, I'm just saying they have done it in general, but like you were talking about, as as free.

Speaker 2: 57:04

I mean okay, everyone does it.

Speaker 1: 57:05

In general it is a way of booking.

Speaker 2: 57:08

But if you look at when you think about those old days with Hogan and stuff like that in the mid to late 80s and how those matches would be, where you know a match would happen and they'd be fighting and someone would interfere, but it's like that happened all the time. That was every show and I mean every Happened all the time. That was Every show, and I mean Every show. It was almost happening every show and you wouldn't get a clear, clean win Until the pay-per-view that's. Wwe has kind of sort of been following that trend. It's been Like every show.

Speaker 2: 57:50

There's almost been at least one where it ends in dq or it's a no contest or someone interferes and you know like it ends like that where it's like it's not truly decided and so like that's been like a. That's been a thing. That's been happening a lot and it's funny because some people are starting it, which it's slowly getting there for me too. But it's like people are looking at the vision, calling it the Seth writers right now, which they're not wrong, and I kind of agree a little bit and honestly WWE's been doing this a lot, like WWE's been really biting on the heels of AEW, like, I think, my favorite thing so far has been WWE doing these all star 8 man tag team matches.

Speaker 1: 58:55

You look confused. No, no, I'm trying to hear the rest of it. I know what you're talking about, but are you saying they're doing it as a poke at them? That's why I'm trying to let you cook. I'm just like okay, where are you going with this?

Speaker 2: 59:06

No, obviously, wwe never barely, no, what it it had. Obviously, hey, wwe never barely with these eight, eight man tag matches, like as where aw does them all the time that's why I'm trying to find out like are you just saying they're doing it?

Speaker 1: 59:27

poke at them, and if and? If so, then like, but why?

Speaker 2: 59:31

That's a good question. Why? I don't know why.

Speaker 1: 59:34

I don't know why. Hey, we're trying to show you we can do a better type of thing. That's what I was confused with.

Speaker 2: 59:39

That's what I can only guess. I mean, you do know Survivor Series is going to be in Texas at a baseball stadium, just like how you see where I'm getting.

Speaker 1: 59:54

Okay, that's why I was trying to find out the source of that. Okay, I see what you're talking about. Yeah, yeah, yeah Because that's coming up.

Speaker 1: 1:00:01

And then, of course, we have oh, like that one time they did They've done recently in Orlando. One time they even booked the Amway Center and it was a live show, right, just WWE live, like fucking, um, what's the show called? What's the type of shows? Lives, just live shows, whatever. Yeah, house shows, house shows, um, they literally did a house show in a amway center where this is supposed to be a aw pay-per-view, that's next door, like it's like literally, I think it's in a dr phillips center or something like that really small ball room and it's supposed to be one of the top, because I think they had it was at it was in December.

Speaker 2: 1:00:54

At UCF or in the UCF arena.

Speaker 1: 1:00:56

Yeah, it was in December. My father-in-law got me tickets and at first I was like man, I really want to go to the AEW show because some of the matches there are going to be fucking awesome. And then I was like but fucking awesome. And then I was like but my wife's father, just my father-in-law just gave me tickets to go live and I'm like I don't want to go watch a live show, I shit. I mean like it's fun, but like and it's the thing. So it's just like. They've done it a lot of times where it's an aew pay-per-view over here, we got some shit over here just to show you. We could do that shit too. Even the Paris situation, I think, when AEW did All In and then WWE said, ah, okay, so we can start doing that shit, and then we can also do that same shit, same time. Just see, like. I've noticed that too. I've noticed that too. I don't know if you would just talk about specifically those matches. So that's why I was also asking it.

Speaker 2: 1:01:50

It's more so me just kind of sort of like just small things that I'm picking up and hey, maybe they are just coincidence.

Speaker 1: 1:01:57

Maybe it is. No, they're definitely not coincidence.

Speaker 2: 1:01:59

But at the same time I'm like you know, wwe had an eight-man tag match in a long ass time and then, literally just as last week, aew had a 10-man and an 8-man and all this other stuff. Wwe's like, hey, we're going to have a. What did they have? First they did the six-man intergender match, so it was the Ibuki Warriors with AJ Styles A fantastic team-up, absolutely. And who did they go up against? They went up against goddamn Judgment Day Mm and so like. So it's just like. And then later on they had that, that eight-man. I swear they called it an eight-man all-star tag team match. And I was like, no, they lost. They WWE, you're not any slick bro. And funny enough, unfortunately for AEW. It was kind of better like, in my opinion. But hey, you know, all I say is we put our ones up for our tribal thief hashtag tsunami. I will follow us getting stronger every minute.

Speaker 1: 1:03:20

How about this, bro? Bro, this shit is so real because, like a lot of people, I will see, like, why did he take off his shoes? But like real niggas know how disrespectful it is, everybody else is just like that's funny, he's taking off his shoes. Nah, that nigga, that mean he beat his ass and he beat, he bitched him in front of everybody, bro. And then for him to be doing that, and then my wife see it. That shit, ghetto as fuck. What. That shit killed my ass, bro. Like how the fuck, how the fuck your German ass. Know about knocking a nigga's shoes?

Speaker 2: 1:04:05

That shit killed me, bro. Listen, fam, there are some things that are universal. Oh my God, and and your kicks jacked. And it's funny because I've been looking at these videos of Roman Reigns. They're showing the videos of Roman Reigns. He's sitting there like he's gotta walk back up the ramp in his socks, actually, to anybody else that should.

Speaker 1: 1:04:30

He's got to walk back up the ramp in his socks. That actually to anybody else that should bury them. I'm sorry but because it's Roman it's like it's valid. He can pick it back up. He can get back up.

Speaker 2: 1:04:47

Yeah, fam, and the other bit. The last little thing that I want to bring up is just the fact that, um, um, starting next Wrestlemania $30, oh yeah, ESPN $30 a month to watch pay-per-views which sucks.

Speaker 1: 1:05:16

I think somebody said the equivalent of this now is gonna be I think, to be a wrestling fan you have to pay at least $516 a year just to be a wrestling fan. Just to be a.

Speaker 2: 1:05:29

Yeah or though we're not sponsored by any year, just to be a wrestling fan, just to be a yeah. Or though we're not sponsored by any, get yourself a VPN, call it a fucking thing, because boy, oh boy, that's, it's crazy, it's absolutely crazy. Ain't. No way, bro, like it'd be one thing, because, like for the ESPN thing, it'd be one thing if I was a sports ball guy. You know what I'm saying. If I, like, truly loved watching sports ball of any kind, I like how you call it a sports ball and I'm like what the fu?

Speaker 1: 1:06:07

Okay, basically any sport that includes a ball. Continue, continue.

Speaker 2: 1:06:12

Yeah, Because there's not a whole lot of puck balls. But even then, I don't care about those games. I don't care about those either. I get what you're saying, I care, and so which? That's a coin term from a friend.

Speaker 1: 1:06:26

Can I say something that might be controversial? Oh, okay, and this is my bullet room hot take, and maybe you know for all those people that might be like, but wrestling's fake. Why is watching, like basketball, football, any of those other sports, boring as fuck? But like, watching wrestling is the most entertaining thing ever. And think about it Like I've played football. I enjoyed the game football. I can watch a football game and you know, completely understand what's going on, right?

Speaker 1: 1:07:03

But I, if I was put into a situation where I had to choose what I wanted to watch, it's never going to be football. I don't care who team, I don't care what athlete. There is nothing about it that makes me say, boom, I want to watch this right Now. Granted, boxing, mma, yeah, but the idea of watching a sport we're going to call it a fucking sport. But art that, while, while, yes, we do know the outcomes, we do understand the back of the age, politics and things of that nature. But this product is so much better to watch compared to watching that. And to know that I'm now subscribed, or going to be subscribing, to something where there is only one thing I'm getting out of it and it's only $30 and we just went from $10? Fucking crazy.

Speaker 2: 1:07:56

And what's even funnier is the fact that with that, it's like, because you're getting a sports network, as they're calling it, a straight-to-consumer whatever that, but it's like you're getting pretty much a sports network thing that's only going to have a pay-per-view on it, roughly maybe once a month. Yep, so you're paying. So I mean, comparably speaking, it's almost like just buying, pay buying a pay-per-view.

Speaker 1: 1:08:27

Pay-per-view again. Yeah, I mean shit. Fucking aew still makes you pay 60 to 50 for a fucking pay-per-view. Pay-per-view again. Yeah, I mean shit, Fucking AEW still makes you pay $60 to $50 for a fucking pay-per-view, which to me fucking insane.

Speaker 2: 1:08:37

Not for the product that they're giving.

Speaker 1: 1:08:39

Not, absolutely not no.

Speaker 2: 1:08:42

And it's like I will say, I think in the long run, I think we've been spoiled just slightly Because of the WWE Network and stuff like that, because we also used to have to spend $60 a month.

Speaker 1: 1:08:55

Nigga, I could only watch it at your house, bro, my mom wasn't paying for it. Fuck, nah, that was the one benefit of you as a friend I ain't gonna lie is I would be like Mom, I really want to watch this pay-per-view $60? Boy, that's your goddamn money. But I knew, I knew your mom, she was going to pay that fucking $60. And I was like nah, so I just go to the homie house and I'm going to watch the pay-per-view, and that became our thing for a very long time.

Speaker 2: 1:09:28

For all intents and purposes, like with these, it ain't $60 anymore and the occasional $70 because WrestleMania was always more expensive. Could you imagine if we still didn't have these networks and we had to pay, if they made you pay for both nights of WrestleMania?

Speaker 1: 1:09:53

I'm going to tell you this right now.

Speaker 1: 1:09:55

Granted, I feel like, because of the network, that kind of prevents friends from kind of I would say forcing themselves to get together to watch a product Because, like I said before, if I didn't go to your house, I wasn't seeing the pay-per-view right and having you come over recently, like the product's ten dollars, you don't have to come to my house. You could be like yo. Actually I don't really feel like going over there because I got it 10 bucks. I don't want to make the drive, but because it was 60 back in the day, nigga, you had to get in that car and you had to go because you knew it was either at the fucking wing house it was at your spot, like no matter what you were gonna see it, but it forced us to get together to go watch it because, remember, we didn't have to even go to the wing zone, but we went to the wing zone every fucking pay-per-view. One, because we were friends who enjoy watching the product together. And two, nigga, I don't want to pay all that goddamn money.

Speaker 2: 1:10:57

Which is true, which, clearly speaking, especially since, like because I know at the time we just we didn't have the, we didn't get the WWE Network, and so at that time and it was was like when we would go to the wing house, we would do the thing where because, like, where the pay-per-views were still, like, you know, 40, 50, 60 bucks. Instead, you go to the wing house and spend like $10 on like an appetizer, or maybe $15 on an appetizer and a drink, and you just sit there and watch the pay-per-view.

Speaker 1: 1:11:29

You're good an appetizer and a drink and you just sit there and watch the pay-per-view. You're good, yeah, but I will say it is good to be able to like every once in a while, when you do come over. It's very nostalgic for me.

Speaker 2: 1:11:42

I agree, especially since, like I don't like, even on my end, like I used to, or like there was a good time where we, we was still trying to like do the whole everyone come through and watch pay-per-views, but like now it's like you know, our boy antonio, he uh, because he works the pay-per-views now I wouldn't say his name, but yeah, you know, oh it's safe. We've already worked out the contract on that.

Speaker 1: 1:12:15

Okay, okay, I'm making sure because I didn't want to ever say something like you know, damn, somebody feels like we got insider trade or insider knowledge and shit like that. So no, I don't make sure that Okay cool, I don't want to make it lose a job bro.

Speaker 2: 1:12:34

Nah, he ain't. He's good, he is solid. As a matter of fact, I'm pretty certain right now he is actually. I don't know if he's gone right now or if he's come back no, he's still traveling right now. I remember seeing him on snapchat okay, he's been hustling, bustling, but the only thing I can say is he is doing amazing things.

Speaker 1: 1:12:51

Okay, he's been hustling, bustling. The only thing I can say is he is doing amazing things. Honestly, if you could say it from the podcast standpoint, we proud of our boy. You know what I'm saying. One of us was going to do it and he was the one. Boom bam. Yes, continue on.

Speaker 2: 1:13:07

Oh no. But yeah no, definitely VPNing that shit. I don't plan on buying spending the 30 bucks on that. Unless there's something else that yeah, it's like I actually have like a small VPN that comes with Google. I'm probably going to actually move forward and get like fucking like Surfshark.

Speaker 1: 1:13:31

I'm probably going to actually move forward and get like fucking, like, like like surf shark or they don't. They're gonna switch that shit real fast watch, because everybody's gonna be doing. The vpn ain't gonna get no script.

Speaker 2: 1:13:37

Fan, I'll be that boy. Oh boy, the internet universe is going to lose their mind.

Speaker 1: 1:13:44

No, no, no, no. I'm calling it right now because there's so many memes about it, like, even though I remember I show you I tagged you in one of them, right, and it was the watch bloop, bloop. I'm not saying it because you know the block is hot right now. We do not need that website to go down, but that particular website was. Like the average casual wrestling fan buys the network. The elitist is going to use that website or, like our homeboy said, using a VPN. So it's like, how many of the uh mouth breathers are going to buy the, the, the, the, the subscription, whereas the wrestling fan like me and you and the tech nerds that we are are going to be like, nah, I'm just going to use VPN bro listen, it's funny enough.

Speaker 2: 1:14:39

It's because of that stuff the reason why that WWE don't cater to us no more. They don't care about us little peon broke ass motherfuckers. They out here looking at the upper echelon people. They don't care about us little peon broke-ass motherfuckers. They out here looking at the upper echelon people. Who's going to actually put money in their pockets, aka the people who aren't going to spend $30 on, you know, $30 to watch their pay-per-views every month, as well? As when we come to your city, you're going to drop a car payment not a car payment, I'm sorry, a down payment on a car to sit in the nosebleed section of our venues to watch our people Just to say that you were there.

Speaker 1: 1:15:25

Just said shit Because, as a wrestling fan, it's such a flex to say I was at the blank. I was at this moment. I was there when Sting popped up out of nowhere and showed up in WWE. I was there. Even though I was in the nosebleeds, I was there. There's such a big flex as a wrestling fan was there. There's such a big flex as a wrestling fan.

Speaker 2: 1:15:49

I mean, listen, I was a nosebleed when Shawn Michaels kicked Ric Flair in the face at WrestleMania. I was there for that I was there when Kane beat Chavo Guerrero for the ECW belt at that WrestleMania. I was there for the once in a lifetime WrestleMania that turned into a twice in a lifetime, but we don't talk. But, uh, since we're talking about these Pay-per-views and everything, guess we should Go ahead and get into that, uh, that talk about these, uh.

Speaker 1: 1:16:28

The titantrons. So for those Titantrons. Basically, guys, what we're going to talk about is what stage really stood out to us all for throughout the years, one of our favorite stages. The reason why we're having this conversation is because while we're watching summer slam man, it was just three fucking screens. It, it was three fucking screens. There is a thing about wrestling when Vince McMahon was here and I know people will probably get gushy or feeling some type of way, but Vince, he made stages and he made a story. With every stage, every pay-per-view was themed, every pay-per-view made sense and it also even added sometimes to the fucking show. So I wanted to talk about what are some of the best stages that maybe, if not WWE or whatever product that you've watched, was like some of your favorite ones, because I feel like there's just way too many to say top 10. So it just kind of went in a spit ball conversation and swag seems like he's hot, hot with what his first one is. So I'm curious what's your first one?

Speaker 2: 1:17:42

I did a pretty deep dive and when it comes to a top 10, like, I mean, it would be possible to break it down to a top 10. Like I mean, it would be possible to break it down to a top 10. It would take a much longer time than what we had to do so, but the way you'd have to break it down is first you have to get a list of the pay-per-views that exist. That's the first part, which is a lot. The first part, which is a lot, especially with the fact that there are pay-per-views that exist and then there are pay-per-views that they haven't had in a while, but then they'll sometimes randomly bring them back up. And there are some pay-per-views where they used to have them all the time and then they stopped having them and then they gave it to NXT as a pay-per-view for them to like no Mercy and things like that and Grand American Bash probably have it too.

Speaker 2: 1:18:39

So, like all of those which because I was not very pervious to it but I actually found out oh, a couple of those Halloween Havoc Bash at the Beast those were, and actually even War Games in itself. Those were all WCW paper.

Speaker 1: 1:18:57

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:18:57

I didn't know, you knew that. Well, later on I did, but like one of them that I really didn't realize was one, especially when they first came out with it in WWE was Great American Bash.

Speaker 1: 1:19:11

I didn't know Great.

Speaker 2: 1:19:12

American Bash was a freaking WWE WCW, wcw, baby. Yeah, that surprised me. I was like, oh, I knew Halloween Havoc was a WCW, as always. I also knew Bash at the Beach was kind of thing. I had never heard of War Games until they they brought war games, war games until they brought it over, and so but like um, but yeah, so it's like you'd have to.

Speaker 2: 1:19:40

It's one of those things like first you'd have to figure out what is your favorite pay-per-view of that particular pay-per-view line. That's the first piece and then once you can figure that out and you can figure out which one was your favorite, then you would line all those up and be like, all right, when I line these all up, which ones they line up with. And it's a very, very, very long process. As a matter of fact, it's such a long process that I didn't even look at all pay-per-views. I looked at the ones that I knew I always liked, as time was going on. Which was my favorite pay-per-views were always not because of the matches, just because the presentation that the pay-per-view would always bring was what made it my favorite, and that would be Backlash, armageddon and SummerSlam. There was also Judgment Day and back when it was a pay-per-view King of the Ring. Those were some of my favorite ones as far as those, and so it's like is it any particular one like?

Speaker 1: 1:20:57

okay, because I want to say I liked armageddon, but my favorite armageddon um stage was 2000, when triple h went against vincent man so when Triple H went against Vincent Mann.

Speaker 2: 1:21:14

So this was more so when you just by namesake okay, not a specific one initially, or at least with what I'm saying right now. I'm just saying like I always liked Backlash as a pay-per-view.

Speaker 1: 1:21:35

I always liked Armageddon Because of the two hooks.

Speaker 2: 1:21:38

Yes. So aesthetic-wise, backlash was always the pay-per-view I liked seeing. Its aesthetic for Armageddon's aesthetic was always a favorite of mine. Its aesthetic for Armageddon's aesthetic was always a favorite of mine. Summerslam, I think for a long time visually not even for a long time, even like kind of sort of now SummerSlam used to be my favorite pay-per-view period. I just used to. Summerslam was like, yeah, summerslam was my favorite one that I just would always be ready to look out for. Because the presentation for SummerSlam was my favorite one that I just would always be ready to look out for. Because the presentation for SummerSlam was always dope.

Speaker 2: 1:22:16

Now, whether or not there was good matches there, that's another story and what not. But I have a lot that I ended up writing down when it comes to these. Because there's, for example, with Backlash 2000 to 2002. Capacities because, like, because I literally because because there's, for example, with backlash 2000 to 2002. That was when they had the hooks and I liked all of the hooks, the swinging hooks that they would have.

Speaker 2: 1:22:42

But there's like, after that they kind of sort of went away from the hooks, or at least they went away from the swinging hooks being close up and they had a big, a bit more of like a bigger presenting stage, but like most of them were not. They were kind of for me and it's like the last two good backlash stages to me was in 2005 and 2006. And so, but then after that and it's like in between 2006 and 2007,. The common thing I noticed through all of these pay-per-views is the introduction to LED panels, and we said it off here, but I believe LED panels and we said it off here, but like I believe LED panels is what killed Pay-per-view stages, or I should say Elaborate pay-per-view stages, I'll agree.

Speaker 2: 1:23:43

Now, as time goes on, it's not fully LED panels, because, like, wrestlemania nowadays Is nothing but LED panels, because, like Wrestlemania nowadays is nothing but LED panels but they, but there's so much extra to the stage in the presentation that allows it to be super dope, and there's, like, such a good use of the LED panels, for example, one of the ones that I put down here for, like, when it comes to like some of the LED panels, for example, one of the ones that I put down here for when it comes to some of the WrestleMania stages. Where is that?

Speaker 1: 1:24:16

I feel like you're about to be biased on that one.

Speaker 2: 1:24:19

Well, I would be because of the three WrestleManias that I've gone to, I think, my first WrestleMania, which was WrestleMania I think it was 24. And then when it came back, which was WrestleMania 33, those stages were amazing. I mean freaking, top-notch, top-tier Blanche Epskis with the rollercoaster and the big world and everything. And then the other one was just like, like, like, literally like a like florida skyscraper type situation, like the tall buildings with palm trees, like those were great.

Speaker 2: 1:25:01

But I think one of my favorite wrestleman, one of my favorite wrestlemanians talking about with the led panels, was Wrestlemania 20. Cause Wrestlemania 20? It had a pretty big stage, but it was literally just like full LED panels and on the LED panels it was just a picture of a city, which I think was New York. However, it was cool because certain people would come out and the panels would react to their entrances. Ie, one of the dopest entrances Kane's ever had was when the pyro goes off and then when he comes out, those LED panels that showed the city of New York, that show the city of New York now shows the city of New York on fire, which still one of the dopest ones that he's ever done as far as. But it's like there's a lot that I like I said I kind of went a little overboard with my list. I ain't gonna lie to you.

Speaker 2: 1:26:15

I did a deep dive.

Speaker 1: 1:26:17

I was more so hoping about hearing specific ones, like I know you talked about before we even start the pod. You was like man 2000 didn't miss. And yes, royal Rumble slapped. Survivor Series slapped Like every pay-per-view stage in the 2000 slap. Okay, straight bangers. I mean Wrestlemania. That was LED screens, I think they didn't. Wrestlemania 2000 just had three big ass screens yeah, that's what I'm saying, like big ass screens now.

Speaker 2: 1:26:51

It's funny because when going through this list, it was like where, most of these years, where I've had these good pay-per-views, where they had these good pay-per-view screens and whatnot, wrestlemania was falling short for a while.

Speaker 1: 1:27:12

Oh, you said. It added Okay, I got you.

Speaker 2: 1:27:15

Like Wrestlemania screens were like Wrestlemania shows were falling short.

Speaker 1: 1:27:19

Like when I was looking at my list, Like this one where it was like three screens pushing forward.

Speaker 2: 1:27:25

Yeah, it was that, that one was that. But like because, like, for instance, like with my Wrestlemania ones that I put like, because like, for instance, like with my wrestlemania ones that I put like like because, like I was going like I was just like going down this lip down about down the list, and it's like, you know, one of my original favorite wrestlemania's was the caesar's palace. I thought that was like such a cool, dope looking venue, even down to how people came down to the ring and stuff like that. But there's, like I know, wrestlemania 17. That was like.

Speaker 1: 1:28:01

WrestleMania 17 was probably my original favorite, wrestlemania titantron, because of just how big presenting it had the two big Wrestlemania 17s on the side and everything, and it was oh, you don't remember no, I'm trying to run it back real quick because I think the one I'm thinking I think that was 98 and that was when Austin went against Shawn, so I don't think it was that. Listen, all those Wrestlemania for me, yates. And that was when Austin went against Sean. So I don't think it was that.

Speaker 2: 1:28:31

Yeah, listen all those Wrestlemania, for me, god damn it yeah, okay, sorry listen, it was the big ass eggs from Wrestlemania. From Wrestlemania 1 all the way to like Wrestlemania 17. All of those were ass. From WrestleMania 1 all the way to WrestleMania 17. All of those were ass, Excluding WrestleMania 9, all of those were ass. Wrestlemania 9 is the only exception within that first 15 WrestleMania shows. That was good.

Speaker 1: 1:29:12

WrestleMania 9, that was fire. That was fire.

Speaker 2: 1:29:15

Caesars Palace WrestleMania 9, though that WrestleMania is often looked at as being one of the worst WrestleManias.

Speaker 1: 1:29:22

Oh yeah, that's fact.

Speaker 2: 1:29:24

As far as matches-wise and show-wise and the things that happened, it looked beautiful. Wrestlemania 17 was like the first time where it was all like, yeah, now that's a motherfucking titantron. Wrestlemania 18, with the freaking scaffolding, look, and all this other stuff, like it just looked big and, granted, like it's a very abstract art piece, but like it was kind of cool looking. Still for WrestleMania 18. And then the next one I have was the WrestleMania 20. Wrestlemania 19 was like eh, because it was in that weird baseball stadium kind of thing. But WrestleMania 20, that was when we're full, super deep in the LED situations right now.

Speaker 1: 1:30:15

Yeah, that was the wait. 20 was the two X's right.

Speaker 2: 1:30:21

Yes, and that was in. New York and they had, like that city, skyline situation going on. Like I said, when Kane came out and he set all that shit on fire, absolutely epic, but like I think Armageddon after going back to I think Armageddon was the one that probably had the most consistently good rings in a titantron setup Like Armageddon 2003, rings and like titantron set up stages. Yeah, like armageddon 2003, which was the one that I was at, where it was like they had the whole set up and they had.

Speaker 2: 1:30:59

That was when they first had like the, the steep they had, like the steel art piece of the egg and it was lit on fire yeah, yeah, I was at that one wait.

Speaker 1: 1:31:08

That was did we go to that one Wait? That was Did we go to that one together?

Speaker 2: 1:31:13

I don't think we went together. We had different seats, because if you went, we did not go together. I know I went with my mom, but we both probably may have went, Because I know I distinctly remember that main event being Goldberg, Kane and Triple H that was the main event.

Speaker 1: 1:31:32

Also, man shout outs to my mom bro, she like she, I mean she knew wrestling, but like she took her kid to these wrestling events where the tickets were crazy. You know what I'm saying For our finances at that time and to still take me to that event and not give a fuck about what's going on.

Speaker 2: 1:31:47

But like I'm here for him that would be your mom, bro, goddamn, I think I went with my. It was me, my brother, my sister, your mom, I don't know.

Speaker 1: 1:31:59

She didn't go. Well, I'm saying they were wrestling fans enough that they can justify in their brain buying a ticket. But my mom, yeah, but my mom that bit yes, yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:32:15

But I went with my brother Like my first couple of wrestling shows I ever went to. It was my brother would always do, so it was like I went to like one of my first draws I went to was right after was right after the pay-per-view, where I think Austin like dropped Triple H in the car from off of the little, the little thing.

Speaker 1: 1:32:38

Oh my god, oh my god, that was Survivor Series yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:32:43

Yeah, sounds about right. Yeah, survivor Series, and so which, even more specific, that was the Raw episode when, uh, undertaker chokeslam kurt angle off off the stage.

Speaker 1: 1:32:56

Hold on one second. Didn't triple h come back? That next episode of raw after after being flipped over in a car?

Speaker 2: 1:33:03

no, I couldn't remember if he did no, he didn't, as a matter of fact, like the. At that time, kane and chris jericho was feuding, and I think the, the and and the rock and somebody else was feuding, and, like the one of the, I think, like the one of them, I think it was the main. The main event match was the rock and chris jericho teaming up to go against kane and whoever the other person was that the Rock was feuding with, and I remember being mad because Kane fucking lost, but nah. But the best part, though, was Undertaker chokeslamming Kurt Angle off the goddamn title.

Speaker 2: 1:33:44

But, yeah, going back into the Armageddon ones, because when I wrote down which Armageddon ones I liked literally from 1999, when it was like the war zone looking one all the way down to 2006, where it was like it looked like it was like a bunch of crumpled up buildings that were standing there and everything Like that one was great. But then, like they, I will say Armageddon is one where they got real lazy and they would actually like repeat the same one a couple of times, and so it's like the one with the crumpled up buildings. They did that 2006, 2007, and 2008. They just made the stage a little bit bigger. A little bit bigger, a little bit bigger, but after 2008,. Led screens, and then I think they actually stopped doing the paper jar, if I'm not mistaken.

Speaker 1: 1:34:49

I believe so, yeah, but it was around that 2008. Which is a name? That's only then, I think they actually stopped doing the pay-per-view arm again, if I'm not mistaken. I believe so, yeah, but like but it was around that 2008.

Speaker 2: 1:34:54

Which is a name?

Speaker 1: 1:34:54

that's only fitting for certain matches, really Agreed.

Speaker 2: 1:35:00

No, but like literally 2008, almost across the board. When I looked at all of my things, that was like the last time pay-per-views looked really good, like when my SummerSlam the last one that I put down here that I liked was like was 2007 was when they had like all the surfboards set up there and everything, and I do believe that was the one that they used to advertise with Tori Wilson and Brock Lesnar, f5 and a goddamn shark and all this other stuff. That was a fantastic looking summer slam. Uh, titan tron, and then they did the whole movie theater one yeah, that was a royal, wasn't that royal rumble?

Speaker 2: 1:35:46

no, 2000, not now. They did do that for royal rumble. Yeah, the whole movie theater thing. But they also did like a whole movie theater one because it was the biggest summer blockbuster, like that was like their whole little uh shtick that they was going with at that time and that was like the last. To me that was like one of the last best summer slams before we went full LED.

Speaker 1: 1:36:12

Bro, I mean eyes roll back. That's crazy.

Speaker 2: 1:36:15

Bro LEDs killed the stage situation. Bro Killed it In the worst way.

Speaker 1: 1:36:24

I think we're starting to have where Raw is the sign on Netflix and they can at least come out of the screen like come out of the letters. I could have sworn.

Speaker 2: 1:36:33

I saw that recently no, I'm not sure what you mean.

Speaker 1: 1:36:39

I'm out you know how they'll spell the word raw and at one point they would come out from the A like they'll walk out from the side of the A oh, but I mean, that's still just straight LED screen, though.

Speaker 2: 1:36:52

is the situation though?

Speaker 1: 1:36:54

No, that wasn't that.

Speaker 2: 1:36:57

No, that wasn't a bit, that was a big screen TV.

Speaker 1: 1:37:03

Well then, deception, but I see exactly what you're saying. I feel like I'm a little biased. While this is not a stage, I did like the aesthetic of it right, and I'm only saying this cause I had to think back to this promotion. These niggas never had a. These niggas never had a stage. Every match, every pay per view was the same shit and that shit was compelling enough to still keep watching. Lucha Underground right has never had a stage. Every match, every pay-per-view was the same shit and that shit was compelling enough to still keep watching Lucha Underground right. They had no fucking stage at all, but something about coming from the side curtain and going down these flight of steps I don't know Something about that was very tribal and it made it obviously because they talk about the Aztecs and stuff in there. It felt very tribal and I like that aesthetic. Granted, it's not a stage, I just wanted to put that as an honorable mention. I like that aesthetic.

Speaker 2: 1:38:07

Well, I mean, you're a simple person, so it makes sense as a person who also likes ECW. They didn't have anything special. Oh, I'm not saying shit about.

Speaker 1: 1:38:16

I'm not saying shit about ECW's stage. I'm not gonna say like yo, their stage was great. You know what I'm saying. They had no fucking stage. The only thing they had was the ECW brick shit and like, yeah, that's nostalgic, but I'm not gonna say that was the best stage or a great stage, or if I liked his aesthetic. I think again, I'm a little bit biased when it comes to Lucho, but I just I saying I like that aesthetic of the tribal aspect, while I am this a very simple man, because I do, while I do not.

Speaker 1: 1:38:49

You know the equivalent of boom rap. You know boom equivalent of boom rap. You know boom rap, backpack rap Okay, like your boom rap, like your Joey Badasses, your fucking West Side Guns. You know not very popular rapper. You're Kendrick Lamar, if you. You know the rapping capability. You know what I'm saying. Like the rappity rap, yeah, no, you know the rapping capability. You know what I'm saying. Like the rappity-rapping, yeah, no, I know what you're talking about.

Speaker 1: 1:39:13

So internet wrestling is boom-bap rap, while consuming things like WWE is kind of like again the mainstream product right, again the mainstream product right. For me as a wrestling fan I have consumed so much media outside of WWE I'm almost the equivalent of a boom bap rapper. While I am a WWE loyalist, there are times where I will kind of go undercover and put on my hat and be like, yeah, I'm actually one of you motherfuckers too, but at the same time sometimes y'all motherfuckers be crazy. But I do like watching this shit. And, yes, there are going to be moments where I'm a very simple man because, yes, I just enjoy wrestling. Even if you show me the dumbest shit, like I don't know mystery guana, I'm going to still enjoy the wrestling no, no, no, it checks.

Speaker 2: 1:40:16

I mean cause, once again, you're the. You are the local, uh, blood and guts wrestler who loves watching like, and it's like where, through the eyes of watching AEW I ain't gonna lie to you, bro, like them old heads kind of right, and AEW is kind of proving it right, like this deathmatch, bullshit's kind of killing wrestling right now.

Speaker 1: 1:40:44

I mean with the way they're doing it. Yeah, that's why, like literally, I used to do it to you.

Speaker 2: 1:40:49

So the problem is, it's not even the way that they're doing it. Yeah, that's why, like, literally, I just agree with you. So the problem is, it's not even the way that they're doing it. It's just like it's one of those things where I feel it's like they're trying to do the thing where they're taking country music and rap and they're trying to put it together. Yeah, what they're doing, and AEW with Deathmatch Wrestling. It's what they're doing at AEW with Deathmatch Wrestling.

Speaker 2: 1:41:09

But the problem is they don't have a super great country singer and they have some whack-ass rapper that they're trying to collaborate on the track and it's like no, it's probably better if you keep Deathmatch Wrestling all the fuck way over there, way over that way. Keep it over there, way over that way. Keep it over there Respectfully and just focus on doing regular wrestling, because you're botching it up. Because I don't think, I really don't think Deathmatch wrestling, that super hardcore style of wrestling In your stereotypical what most Americans are used to Type of wrestling, and your stereotypical, what most Americans are used to type of wrestling can flow into each other where it makes fucking sense.

Speaker 1: 1:42:01

For a mainstream product.

Speaker 2: 1:42:02

No, not just for a mainstream, just period, like it doesn't make sense, period Because, like storylines, all this other stuff, and there's in the way that wrestling has been presented, in the way that death match wrestling is so different Cause death cause. It's like why have death match wrestling when you have the greatest wrestlers in the world on your, on your product?

Speaker 1: 1:42:33

Okay, I see what you're saying, now why?

Speaker 2: 1:42:36

have deathmatch wrestling when you have a Will Ospreay who can wow the crowd without touching one weapon, deathmatch wrestlers, deathmatch. They don't have to do the wrestling. The wrestling is not what makes a death match wrestler special or interesting or cool. It's what they do with these deadly weapons and what they do as far as a death match, there's only so many death match moves. There's only so many wrestling moves that people in a death match wrestling match need to know how to do, because you put people through tables, chairs, light bulbs, lava lamps. You put, you do those things to those people with those particular moves. You don't have to be the best wrestler in the world to do any of that. You don't even really know or need to know how to do wrestling to be a death match wrestler for all intents and purposes. It helps if you know how to wrestle, because that keeps some of the wrestling integrity. But then, but when you have people like swerve and and moxley Because he can wrestle when he wants to Type situation when you got this high Caliber of wrestling Wrestlers, why waste that talent Trying to Drop thumbtacks Down their pants and literally trying to put a screwdriver through kneecaps?

Speaker 2: 1:44:19

It does not mix, you're right. And if you're going to do it, because the other problem is is the fact that in America wrestling since the dawn of at least the 70s maybe going into the 60s as well, going all the way back to the territory days wrestling has always been about moments and storytelling. Okay, about moments and storytelling. Okay, you can tell stories, I'm sure, in death match wrestling, but you have to tell those stories Consistently with the death match wrestling. When you're trying to tell these regular stories that has been Of the usual Deathatch wrestling does not. It's like you're mixing two things that can't mix because the story doesn't make sense.

Speaker 1: 1:45:25

I'm going to. I'm going to give you something I want to see if it actually may help with your thought process on this. So let's say you enjoy cartoons, right. You enjoy anime, you enjoy multiple forms of animation. Right, there is some animation that is absolute brain rot. It's like there's no purpose, it's goofy, it's stupid, but for some reason I like consuming it, right, say, robot chicken, anything, adult swim brain rot material like that's fucking stupid. I should like this, but it's something about it that I like about it.

Speaker 1: 1:46:05

Right, that is the equivalent of watching wrestling and deathmatch wrestling is deathmatch, wrestling is brain rot because, yeah, a lot of this shit doesn't make any fucking sense. But it's brain rot material that every once in a while we as consumers like do again think of the cartoons that you enjoy, the anime you enjoy that have great stories, great storytelling, storytelling. But you also like FLCL and that is a complete dumpster fire of a concept story, but it's a great anime, but it's a concept story you can enjoy, you can get with and like, ah, she's kind of goofy, but yeah, I'm here for it. That is to me, I think, a way I can explain as the differences between the two and why some consuming and find it fun and why some consume and see it and be like. That's fucking stupid.

Speaker 1: 1:47:01

I more so think that a death match wrestling is valid maybe once or twice, but doing it every other month or every other week, that is stupid, like the dog collar match between Max and CM Punk While that's not a death match, but it's on the equivalent of some of the crazy shit that they did. Does that make sense?

Speaker 2: 1:47:27

So that all makes sense. And what I'm saying is when I'm watching my Game of Thrones and then, in the middle of an episode of Game of Thrones, they start doing some fully cooly shit. That's the problem that I'm saying is how, and that's with AEW. Aew is how to think and that's with AEW. Aew is trying to and maybe it's just because AEW hasn't figured it out yet, or whatever it might be Because it's like they're doing the thing where.

Speaker 2: 1:48:06

It's like they're like yo, we're trying to present ourselves to be looking like this Alright, cool, I'm trying to get behind that. I'm trying to present ourselves to be looking like this Okay, all right, cool, I'm trying to get behind that. I'm trying to believe your story, I'm trying to believe what you have. But then they're putting these elements into the story. That is like why is that here? That's not what you guys are, or is it? That's not what you guys are, or is it. And then when they do it, they'll do it and be like oh, okay, so this is what you guys are going to be. Oh, no, no, no, no, we're not that. And then they go back to this over here.

Speaker 1: 1:48:47

They flip-flop a lot. They want to be the home of professional wrestling, but then they do death matches all the damn time.

Speaker 2: 1:48:54

Correct, but it's like because, once again, death match wrestling is presented and consumed in a very different way than wrestling entertainment. In all actuality and we've seen it, the hardcore matches that we've seen in wwe when that match happens, when you see that person again, they're fucked up, they're limping, they are beat. The dog shit. They're not having a match tonight. They just went through hell. They just bled like a stuffed pig. They just had thumbtack. They just got done picking all these thumbtacks out of their body. They're hurting, okay, that's, that is what the standard wrestling is deathmatch wrestling. You know, man, we piece or cutted your face off, we almost cut off your nuts, we broke your fingers and tied them in a knot and then you come back the next night like it never happened. That's deathmatch wrestling. This goes into the biggest thing. That's how it's been presented, and so it's like, if that's how that is presented, when you're trying to bring the sports entertainment wrestling and then death match wrestling and put it here, it doesn't make sense because it doesn't work it's this the selling aspect for you is the fact that they do not sell the after effects of something like a death match correct the selling which is the

Speaker 2: 1:50:30

biggest and the most important almost probably the number one most important thing about wrestling it's the selling. If you can't sell it to me, I'm not buying is putting themselves in this bind where, because they're trying to cater to this to the sickos, as they say with this death match wrestling they're losing the sell and because they're not selling, nobody's buying. That's why when they had that death match and they did all that stuff and then hangman came out there, which his first mistake was trying to sell, because he came out there trying to sell like he was in a death match, just for him and john moxley to have a match and not sell anything at all.

Speaker 1: 1:51:31

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:51:33

Jon Moxley came out there, didn't sell anything at all and he was the loser. He did get hanged. Freaking Our new TBS champion, kyle Fletcher. He came out there, had his little death match. Yeah, he was walking around and strutting like his balls were inert. You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1: 1:51:58

The balls are inert.

Speaker 2: 1:52:04

So I can't get down with it. It's not so much I can't get down with death match wrestling, because it's not death match wrestling, that's the problem.

Speaker 1: 1:52:13

It's the selling. That's what I'm saying, so I do apologize. The way you kind of came into the statement it was if you don't like watching deathmatch wrestling, like you felt like deathmatch wrestling is killing it, when in all reality it's not the deathmatch wrestling, it's the selling. The selling is the thing that is killing it, because, yeah, we can have a death match, but if you don't sell the ability, yeah, and it's not only that and it's not only that, because it's like you also.

Speaker 2: 1:52:43

There's also a different mindset of when you're watching death matches. Yeah, then there is when you're watching your regular wrestling entertainment. You know what I'm saying, just like how you're saying. You know we have our shows that we watch, where we're super into, and then we have our brain rot. Okay, when I'm watching brain rot, I know I'm watching dumb shit and I'm going to enjoy it as it is because I know that's what it is.

Speaker 2: 1:53:10

So, when it comes to deathmatch wrestling, granted, I really don't care for it, because there's still that aspect of the whole thing of like the selling is off for me. When it comes to death match wrestling, sure, I love watching a person get themselves damn near arm sawed off next to the next guy and light bulbs and explosions and bob wire and stuff like that. That's cool. But of course, because there's so much of that that's happening, it's like I have to I, because I know what I'm watching the realistic aspect of everything is tossed out of the window, going into a death match. So I I know that this is the that the selling that I'm seeing is the way it has to be, because obviously you know they're it's death. You know what I'm saying? That's just what it is, as where, when I'm watching something like aew, or how it's presented, it's like, well, damn, because it. Because when you have regular matches, it makes me.

Speaker 2: 1:54:23

When you have regular matches after a death match, it does not make me believe the fact that anything that this man is going to do to you is going to make a difference, because the last time you two fought, the only way something made a difference was after you literally stabbed him in the forehead with a fork ten times and dropped him on a bed of nails. You know what I'm saying? Where deathmatch wrestling is every time they're fighting in that ring it's a bunch of foolish, crazy, wild, death-defying, lovely bullshit. And because they do that every night or whenever it comes on, but because it's happening every single time, I get it. If I had to sit here and watch Nick Gage and insert deathmatch Nick Gage and Jon Moxley, that match would last for an hour and 30 minutes.

Speaker 2: 1:55:26

If they're not using weapons because their bodies are so hardened by deathmatch wrestling at least that's what I would have to believe, because, no, a normal punch isn't going to do nothing to a man who's being stabbed in the forehead with a fork, been raped across the face with a pizza cutter. Come on, don't play with me that way.

Speaker 1: 1:55:53

So so so saying basically, because they don't sell the effects of things of that nature, like, yeah, putting in a situation, like you just said, john moxley, a normal move of some sort, should be like, well, moxley's dealt with worse, like why would that affect him? Why would that matter? It's, it's now you're trying to tell me. In this world of what's going on here, there are these moments where there's this outrageous shit that happens to a person that for a normal human being or normal situation, that person should be either fucked up or so showcase some effects of it, and they basically said yeah, but then they push pause and then hit respond and their effects are all gone. And they're said yeah, but then they push pause and then hit respawn and their effects are all gone and they're back at it the next second. You're like wait, wait, wait, wait, whoa. You're trying to tell me this story.

Speaker 1: 1:56:41

No, I'm not. I'm not buying that, because that's basically like playing god mode in a video game that again, like hunter says not, hunter says um, undertaker says it's video game. Shit. You play a match, even though you just had a hell in a cell and I fucking dropped you off your neck and you fell on a bed of tables. When that match ends, I can replay that shit again, yeah that's what it is and that's the problem with AEW.

Speaker 2: 1:57:10

I'll never say there's a problem with death match wrestling, that's.

Speaker 1: 1:57:17

The way you came into it. It sounded like it was.

Speaker 2: 1:57:20

Oh yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:57:22

That's fair, because I would say its existence does hurt that and I can't. Some people would say there's a part of me that almost feels that way. But then I also have to realize deathmatch wrestling stays in this pocket over here and so it is its own universe of wrestling, not comparable to the regular universe of wrestling. And so because of that, death in my mind maybe as a one-off. But if you're going to do a one-off because it doesn't happen all the time or at least it shouldn't happen all the time it's got to mean something. And in AEW deathmatch wrestling does not mean anything.

Speaker 1: 1:58:13

Or at least they don't make it seem like it does. Yeah, there have been some matches where it did like I will say the swerve and like. This is why we always say and I don't know if you agree with this, but this is why I say swerve and hangman is their greatest storyline in AEW right now, because the matches that we have seen were fucking justified and, yes, they did sell. What happened afterwards, especially hangman hangman went from the goody two shoes, baby face to complete madness. Okay for that opportunity to get his get back on swerve. And when he finally did it and he you know, he's on the stage and he just gives out that streak of a laugh Like finally, I did it, finally, and I can care if I just landed on all that shit, I'm letting out this roar and I'm fainting, and he faints like he does it and he just collapsed for a second and he gets back up finally and then he sells and walks off to the ring. So it's like justifiable stuff.

Speaker 2: 1:59:15

Or maybe did you feel that way when it came to that feud yes, they did present that in a way where it made sense and and their follow-up was on point with that, and that's unfortunately, that is the minority, yes, yes, of how they do it and how it's been done, because, granted that, they did do that. On the flip side, will Ospreay and Kyle Fletcher had a cage match.

Speaker 1: 1:59:50

Oh God.

Speaker 2: 1:59:51

Where they.

Speaker 1: 1:59:51

I don't want that one, but you see where I'm going with. But that was your Billy goat, though, and that was absolute fucking video game. Shit, spam. Far off the fucking cell. Mouth off the trust.

Speaker 2: 2:00:06

Listen the Billy goat is not immune to this foolishness, Just want to make sure.

Speaker 1: 2:00:14

Oh, listen bro.

Speaker 2: 2:00:16

Listen, I don't know why you feel as if that like, if there's someone who I like when they do foul stupid shit, I'm not going to call them out.

Speaker 1: 2:00:27

Charlotte, nigga Charlotte.

Speaker 2: 2:00:29

Charlotte hasn't done anything wrong?

Speaker 1: 2:00:32

Oh my god, alright, we're not about to go back into that. I hasn't done anything wrong. Oh my God, alright, we're not about to go back into that. I don't know why you keep faking Because you do it for Charlotte, because you do it for Charlotte.

Speaker 2: 2:00:43

What has she done wrong, bro? What has she?

Speaker 1: 2:00:45

done wrong. Royal Rumble nigga.

Speaker 2: 2:00:49

How is that her fault, that she's just better than everybody else? Bro, I don't't understand. I don't understand why you are so into this fact of that. She's wrong because she's good, it's because she didn't need it.

Speaker 1: 2:01:05

You telling me. You telling me, she needed that royal rumble win. You telling me that right now, you, she deserves, she needed that right there who else?

Speaker 2: 2:01:15

why, why, why not her? Why not? That's the better question why not?

Speaker 1: 2:01:20

because we have other people like as if you okay, remember how I was making my statement about becky lynch and whatever? And it says, okay, well, we're supposed to push like valkyria. There are other people they're supposed to be pushing, but then they just push char Charlotte back into the front. They've done it so many times but it's like, but who's supposed to be better than her? If you're going with that logic in every situation, then how do you build other people?

Speaker 2: 2:01:46

I don't know, I don't. Should ask Mercedes Monet about that one, bro.

Speaker 1: 2:01:50

Okay, we're not saying that she's fucking justifiable. I don't like her either, but my point is I agree with you on the but the other thing between Mercedes Monet and Charlotte Flair is the fact that Charlotte Flair is believable.

Speaker 2: 2:02:06

That's the major difference.

Speaker 1: 2:02:08

I mean, how about this Monet was believable too until she started doing ridiculous stuff, because I mean we all, this Monet was believable too until she started doing ridiculous stuff, because I mean we both agree Sasha Banks is better than Monet and Sasha Banks did a lot of things that were believable.

Speaker 2: 2:02:23

Yes, Sasha Banks did a lot of things that were believable. Mercedes Monet hasn't done anything to make me believe she did.

Speaker 1: 2:02:30

Well, I'm just saying so you're saying okay with her having that finisher, this new finisher, like the first time she even performed it on Kyrie Singh. Yeah, that was a fumble, yeah, um, yeah. So you're right. Yeah, I'll give you that one. But I think here's the thing, the emotion that we knew her at Charlotte it's not even Charlotte, we knew her at Sasha Banks and we're like, oh, we're being presented at Monet. Oh man, sasha Banks is going to be good. She fumbled that.

Speaker 2: 2:03:01

That's exactly.

Speaker 1: 2:03:01

Okay, baby, that's Ross, that's Ross, that's Ross. You know what I'm saying. And then she does it again. It's like okay, wait, wait, sasha. I mean Monet, what are you doing? Um you the boss, why I'm literally having that same moment, my queen, please, oh man, um any final thoughts?

Speaker 2: 2:03:30

um LED screens killed titantrons. Yes, just like deathmatch, wrestling is killing AEW right now.

Speaker 1: 2:03:37

It's, it's the worst you doing the game, so it works, doing it well, okay, wait, wait, wait, wait, okay. I see what you're saying now.

Speaker 2: 2:03:43

Okay, you're saying deathmatch deathmatch because of the cell?

Speaker 1: 2:03:45

yes but I still think it's still selling in general because they they don't just only do it in deathmatch wrestling, sometimes doing it regular matches too. Oh, absolutely, I mean that part is general, because they don't just only do it in deathmatch wrestling. They sometimes do it in regular matches too.

Speaker 2: 2:03:55

Oh, absolutely, I mean that part is true. But when you do things like these texts, like the Texas deathmatch and all this, when you do those things and you don't treat them like they're special, that's when the problems come, because now you have to up the ante so high that until someone's pulling a gun out and pistol whipping somebody in the middle of the ring, at that point no one's believing anything anymore. Yeah, I know, but it is what it is.

Speaker 1: 2:04:31

No, I'm just thinking about other stuff, Like you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2: 2:04:34

Someone pulling out a gun and pistol-whipping somebody.

Speaker 1: 2:04:37

Yeah, like actually seeing that happen and then the gun go off or something like that. Or like yo man fuck this shit and shoots him in the leg Like yo, just something wild, like upping the ante, you know what.

Speaker 2: 2:04:49

I'm saying yes, aew is putting themselves into that caliber, where that's all that can happen.

Speaker 1: 2:04:57

Because we have somebody stab somebody in the leg with a fucking screwdriver. What's next?

Speaker 2: 2:05:02

Literally shanking a man I don't know, aew, and you're all that we have right now that can quote unquote. Make WWE do something better than having these absolute shitty ass SmackDown shows.

Speaker 1: 2:05:18

Can't even say TNA because they're partners.

Speaker 2: 2:05:20

But yeah, yeah, no, yeah, exactly TNA. They're drinking the Kool-Aid respectfully because it's making them better, but with. What I'm saying is that they're in bed with WWE. So it's like if TNA becomes better than AEW, then AEW is a lost cause. Wwe wins.

Speaker 1: 2:05:44

Fatality, wasn't it Airbischoff? I think he made a comment that Arabischoff said that before I talked about it last podcast.

Speaker 2: 2:05:58

TNA keeps it up, they're going to be the number two in the country. Wait till they get that TV deal.

Speaker 1: 2:06:05

Yeah, they can pop the fuck off. Boy, oh boy, I can't wait.

Speaker 2: 2:06:11

And maybe I can start paying attention to their titantrons, because, though, I didn't mention any oh SmackDown titantrons SmackDown titantrons.

Speaker 1: 2:06:21

Sorry, I never got a chance to pop off with that. Smackdown titantrons were always lit.

Speaker 2: 2:06:26

Yes, and the TNA coming to the tones. Yes, tna was always hit. It's funny because AEW took the Tones. Yes, tna always hit. It's funny because AEW took the TNA actually Good tunnel, bad tunnel or I do believe, even older TNA where they had good tunnel on this side and bad tunnel on that.

Speaker 1: 2:06:49

Yeah, that's because we had no choice, but we had to see them because this was the format.

Speaker 2: 2:06:56

So but yeah, but this does make me want to have to like actually, because, like I think I'm sleeping on some wcw pay-per-views so I gotta watch the one with goldberg won the belt against diamond dollar pay.

Speaker 1: 2:07:12

You know I'm saying that Halloween Havoc that one was fire Halloween, havoc Starrcade.

Speaker 2: 2:07:20

Um, because I peeped some of their Great American Bash ones and I'm like, ooh, those ones were a lot better than the ones that we saw in, uh, in WWE, but you know factamundo.

Speaker 1: 2:07:35

But um, if I I'm gonna end off with my favorite stage of all time because I know I didn't really do a top 10, but just one of my favorites was the OG Smackdown circle that I always will love that titantron that.

Speaker 1: 2:07:54

I fucking love that. But again, that's nostalgic for me because I I love the circles and then the side titantron, it was something about that. Yeah, I used to have that toy, I mean. That's why I said it's very nostalgic for me but at the same time I used to. I used to love it, because whenever you know how wrestlers would have that moment of like something's happening backstage to them, like, say, if you know, a stone cold used to run over somebody's car, and while, yeah, oftentimes would be like oh, I'm in the ring saying this, but like if they were on stage seeing it, it's like over here, like it's a TV screen, like holy shit, I'm watching this on TV too, over here, like it's a TV screen, like holy shit, I'm watching this on TV too, weird thing. But it was just like I don't know why. I liked it when it pulled to the side to see what's going on and the audience could see it too. It's like we're all watching it together. But yeah, I used to like that. And then seeing when Stone Cold returned.

Speaker 2: 2:08:46

I've never been to one of those Smackdowns. I've only been to, I've only been to the fifth Smackdown.

Speaker 1: 2:08:54

I remember one Smackdown I went to and I had this kid I used to hang out with. He was very Jamaican, very, very Jamaican, and he was a bad little boy, as we used to say back in the day. He was a bad little boy, so bad that he almost got us kicked out twice at the fucking event. How, just for being a fucking, a fucking rascal got us kicked out twice at the fucking event. How, just for being a fucking, a fucking rascal, he'll he'll get on the guardrail and then just do Stone Cold's pose and then security be like yo, get the fuck down because he's a kid. So he's like nah, man, I'm gonna keep doing it. And he's like yo, keep doing it, I'm like yo, if he gets us kicked, the fuck out, my nigga, yo I'm. I'm not gonna like this dude no more. I only went to two shows with him and then I never hung out with him again yikes like it was that bad.

Speaker 1: 2:09:39

the first time it was a raw and I was like, okay, he's kind of cool, but this nigga kind of wild bro, like a little too wild. And then that smackdown where it happened, I think stone cold came back from something and at the end of the show it's Austin, he's drinking it as we're trying to leave, like luckily he's doing it as we're leaving. But security was like yo, you guys got to go. And I was like man, what if he keeps doing this shit and one day gets me kicked the fuck out? Because if he gets kicked out I'm going to be like I don't know that, nigga, I don't know that nigga, know that nigga, I don't know that shit. I'm watching the show, no fucking way.

Speaker 2: 2:10:20

but yeah, no um I love that stage I miss td waterhouse rip.

Speaker 1: 2:10:23

God man, td waterhouse man. Anyway, guys, to my shows, hell yeah, anyway, guys, one of the biggest things that we kind of talked about today is the selling, the thing that gets us hype, and it could be the wrestling, it could be a lot of things, but it always starts with a promo. Man, I'm going to meet you at this location, even though I'm backstage with you, but legally I can't fight you until we have a contract signed and I meet you at this location, right, and because of that, we as humans, we will pay money to go watch these two motherfuckers fight, because they talk mad shit about each other beforehand. And as we all enjoy is two motherfuckers talking shit and one of them throwing hands or both of them throwing hands. But the art of wrestling, one of the biggest arts of wrestling, is how to cut a promo, how to sell to the audience why you need to watch this.

Speaker 1: 2:11:24

And so tomorrow well, next episode we're going to go over some of our favorite promos of all time. I don't want to make you do yearly. I mean, I don't know, that's up to you If you feel like you want to do year or just all time, because you're kind of on that current pay-per-view of the year situation. I don't know if you always do that or not.

Speaker 2: 2:11:48

I mean, I don't normally when it comes to, like, identifying a promo. I don't normally when it comes to identifying a promo. I don't normally. I just know, specifically right now, nobody's promo has come close to touching Hangman. Adam Page and Ospreay going into their match for the Owen Hart, for the Owen Hart tournament, like because watching that shit and Will Ospreay saying like, listen, I have to win, and he's rattling off all his reasons why and stuff like that.

Speaker 1: 2:12:32

It's the equivalent of Austin saying that to the Rock.

Speaker 2: 2:12:37

About what Having to win versus needing to win.

Speaker 1: 2:12:40

Yeah, remember when Austin says, Rock, I need to beat you, I need more than anything I need in my life, like that WrestleMania 7 team match where it's JR and the Rock says the Rock is going to give you every ounce of sweat, every blood, like you know, the that whole thing.

Speaker 2: 2:12:57

I remember that was one of the things that really compelled us was that promo segment between those two uh, yes, it was very much that and but it's weird, where I could feel Stone Cold's need, where I can feel that Stone Cold was like I felt his need for that win with Hangman, like I felt his like his need, there was a hint of desperation in his need as, whereas like Stone Cold's all like man, I freaking need to beat you, eggman was like I need to beat you and it's because of that bit I was like, oh, oh, I'm fucking sold on that. That shit hit hard because there was the desperation in his voice and in his face on how badly he needed this to happen and go his way.

Speaker 1: 2:14:16

And so it was like that.

Speaker 2: 2:14:17

And then with Osprey, there was, like you can hear the desperation to a certain degree, but it was instead of desperation. It was a very strong determination instead of desperation. It was a very strong determination. And so in that particular case, stone coasty vodson, his need was a strong determination of needing to beat the rock.

Speaker 1: 2:14:44

It wasn't where, where?

Speaker 2: 2:14:46

because neither one of them was desperate for that match. It's just that Stone Cold he had His need was Was more of that as opposed to where. With these two guys there was a small hint of desperation On both sides, but Ospreay His was Not so much the desperate, but more so that, like I gotta get that done, cause like cause. If I cause once I can get that done, then I can get back to doing what I know I can do. Where hangman, he's out here like nigga, I ain't got shit left for myself right now and if I don't win this I'm my hangman out of page. Like he's like one of those left for myself right now and if I don't win this I'm my hangman out of page. He's one of those type situations. That's how hard he needed it to happen for himself. That was crazy. I mean, listen, it's not like hangman out of page. Hasn't been hungman by fucking Swerve?

Speaker 1: 2:15:50

No, I mean, you're right, I know, that was crazy.

Speaker 2: 2:15:54

But yeah, yeah, no, I'm definitely gotta look back on some of these promos, because there's a couple of them that I'm just seeing in my eyes right now, but I don't remember what they said, so I have to look back, okay.

Speaker 1: 2:16:10

Well, as always, one of the biggest things we say when it comes to this show dude, we try to give you the unfiltered side of us, we try to give the best side of us and we always say the ring is sacred, questions are real, but destruction that is guaranteed.

Speaker 2: 2:16:34

So until next time, it's the Masako it's your boy, swax, which in the building thank you again for tuning in.

Speaker 1: 2:16:47

We'll see you next week. Please go ahead and chokeslam that like button as well as hit subscribe and we out Pedal.

Speaker 2: 2:16:58

Mero, goddamn, right.