Why Wrestling Factions Keep Failing

Fifty episodes deep and still swinging chairs at bad booking, we set our sights on one of wrestling’s most powerful storytelling tools: the faction. Are stables still designed to build stars, or are they just convenient parking spots for underused talent? We start with the classics NWO’s shock value, DX’s charisma, and Evolution’s masterclass in role design then lay out why The Shield remains the modern benchmark for turning a group into three stand-alone main-eventers.

From there we zoom out across promotions. Japan’s units LIJ, Chaos, Bullet Club show how faction warfare can anchor a card, yet not every unit is built to elevate. Bullet Club made outsiders dangerous. Others blurred into background noise, especially when leadership wavered or rosters fused without a mission. In the States, we call out AEW’s Death Riders: a strong premise that fizzled without a real authority foil or destination match, leaving talented members treading water. On the WWE side, “The Vision” briefly nailed the formula by pairing a top star with ascending threats like Bron Breakker and Bronson Reed, protecting finishers and crafting momentum until the leader exited and the climb slowed. We also unpack the Austin Theory conundrum: how mid-card presentation lingers and what it takes to wash it off.

Throughout, we define what a great faction must do: declare a measurable goal, assign clear roles, build signature wins, protect calling-card offense, and pay off the story with breakups that launch careers, not fragment them. If fans can’t point to who got elevated and why, the stable didn’t finish the job. We end with a challenge to you: name the factions that truly made stars and the ones that just made noise.

Enjoy the ride? Follow the show, share it with a wrestling friend, and drop your greatest-faction-ever pick in a review. Your takes might headline our next episode.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:09

Welcome to another episode of the Big Brothers of Destruction podcast. It's your host who likes to post the Mazaku.

SPEAKER_01 0:17

And it's your boy, Swag Switcher, in the building with his alternate attire rocking gold instead of black.

SPEAKER_02 0:22

You know what's funny because I'm I wear red more than anything, and I'm wearing blue today, so it's like quite interesting that uh the roles have reversed. But uh guys, we actually have a very interesting situation today. I want to see if Swag realizes. Do you know what episode number this is?

SPEAKER_00 0:42

Hmm, I don't I don't think I do.

SPEAKER_02 0:46

This is our 50th episode. Oh, is it real? And we and we and we recently got 50 subscribers. So it's interesting. 50-50. That to me, well, look at that. That's a lucky situation. So, you know, where we I want to say for the for the the fact that we have 50 subscribers and we're on 50 episode 50, thank you guys so much who have been rocking with us, whether if it's on Spotify, any of the platforms we have, especially Buzzfeed, for those people who actually download us. I always find it interesting when I find people are downloading and listening to our episodes, which is dope. Yeah, so that's always a really interesting thing I see when I go on BuzzFeed. But uh to say 50 is where we're at right now and 50 more in the future.

SPEAKER_01 1:30

All right. So that means so if this is 50, that means we've been doing this for 50 weeks. Well, 50 weeks, but so that would mean two more weeks will be. March? Yeah, no, no, it would be March, yeah. Yeah, it would be March. It was round four uh WrestleMania season. As a matter of fact, not not just that, but we literally started right after the elimination chamber. Yes, when we saw Cena situation, yeah. Because see now, see now I almost see now I'm gonna have to like I I gotta go back and like watch the first couple of episodes just uh see the difference. Just to see how we see how we first because I remember we first started off here like this is about to be the greatest thing since last bread. This is about to be the greatest thing ever. It is. What are you talking about? No, I'm talking about the John C.

Year One Reflections And WrestleMania Timeline

SPEAKER_02 2:26

Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. Yeah. Oh, but the pod.

SPEAKER_01 2:32

Oh no. The pod is fantastic, it has never stopped being fantastic. Wrestling is a different story. Like, I feel as if like when we decide that we were like, hey, let's do this podcast, all right. F it, let's just go full speed into it. And then we started doing it. We literally started on it as wrestling was doing this.

Defining Factions Vs Units Across Promotions

SPEAKER_02 2:53

Yes, it was just like the wrestling had just got to this point, and as soon as we started the podcast, we everything we started talking about, I we feel like the bad guys, because like some people's opinions were like, well, this is how we like no, it's just trash. Like, what's going on is trash, this is trash, and we just kept feeling I I was starting to feel bad at one point, but then then oh, you'll see what happens next week when I'm on the episode. But uh I I I had to say for the fur for the first year of doing this, this has been a blast. And going on into next year, hopefully we can talk better about wrestling. You know, yeah. Talk better, at least. Cause today's topic is talking about a very it's a it's a thing you see constantly in wrestling, where it is supposed to help build the other superstars or wrestlers in set group or faction or unit, wherever you want to call it, depending on what type of wrestling you watch. In America, we call it faction. In Japan, they call them units.

unknown 4:07

I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 4:09

Yeah, they call them units. So factions are units in Japan. Fair enough. Okay.

What A Faction Should Do

NWO, DX, And Evolution Case Studies

SPEAKER_02 4:14

Uh, but we Americanize them by calling factions. So uh every unit that is in Japan and every faction that's in America. I don't know about uh Mexico, I don't know what they do with that. I think I would think they're factions, but I'll I'll have to look that up. But uh again, today's topic is just talking about, man, the the actual nature of a faction and what it's supposed to do. It's supposed to benefit all wrestlers in some way, shape, or form, but also push or elevate the main wrestler of the group. So a couple of factions we can talk about, like the New World Order, which it was elevating, you know, Hulk Hogan, Scott Steiner, not Scott Steiner, excuse me, Scott Hall, and uh Kevin Nash. That was it was built on them, and the unit was supposed to keep elevating them. But then you have DX, which DX is technically a faction if you think about it, but really the original version was just a tag team. But the faction later on, which had X Pac, Road dog, Billy Gun, which technically everybody would say out of the most talented in the ring was Billy Gunn, but Triple H was the faction leader who benefited the most from the faction.

SPEAKER_01 5:26

Evolution, we have real quick, just because with what you said, so you you would say Billy Gunn over X Pop as in athleticism, yes.

SPEAKER_02 5:38

Fair enough. Because Billy Gunn, bro, but you remember that Royal Rumble, he went out there with no boot on and wrestled with one foot. I mean, yes, there that that was even though even though he was still wrestling on one foot, he still made it look good.

SPEAKER_01 5:55

All right, listen, I I was just saying it, because uh there are some who could argue that X-Pac at the time.

SPEAKER_02 6:02

Oh, he had the best heat at that time, yes. But athleticism, I always felt like it was Billy, just he just didn't know how to talk. Billy just didn't know how to talk. I don't think he even now he's not much of a talker.

SPEAKER_01 6:16

No, he isn't. He's always but then again, I got it.

SPEAKER_02 6:20

I also think that he himself also knows that at this point, and that's why he's a genetic freak. I mean, look at him at 50 plus, man, still looks like how he did it. Matter of fact, he looks better.

SPEAKER_01 6:31

I'm not saying 50 plus. I'm pretty certain he's not he's solid in his 60s, if I'm not mistaken.

SPEAKER_02 6:36

Again, 50 still 50 plus, but and he still looks like how he even better than in an attitude era. I mean, his body is just muscle, you know, and everybody else, roll dog, hunter, ex-pa, all of them look like grandpa's.

SPEAKER_01 6:52

Now, in Triple H's defense, I mean, yeah, the heart situation. His heart did say I quit. Okay, but so it so that that that wasn't by choice on Triple H's part. His body said, nah nah, ain't gonna cut it. So that's not gonna work for me, brother. It listen, that is his heart said, Oh, you got me. Like Hogan's ass. But like his like I said, his heart said, ooh, you got me, brother.

SPEAKER_02 7:19

But uh but uh to to go back into an evolution, uh, or you know, some people say evolution, which is crazy. Evolution. You have Ric Flair, you have Batista, you have Randy Orton, you have Triple H. Now, interestingly enough, in this faction, at least three of the people in it elevated and became world champions or were world champions. Ric Flair was just as he was the he was an addition to the group, right?

SPEAKER_01 7:46

I wouldn't I wouldn't just say that. I I would dare to say that evolution out of all the factions that that have that are out there, kind of thing, even though a lot of people really did not like evolution for this or that, evolution actually did what a faction is supposed to do. Oh, I'm not disagreeing on that. He wasn't a world champion. Sure, he was not a world champion, but Ric Flair being in that faction, it did elevate Ric Flair.

SPEAKER_02 8:24

Absolutely, absolutely. I'm what I'm saying, I'm going to the point is when you look into a faction, as people try to see factions, they see it as, hey, we're supposed to elevate everybody in the group. If you look at DX, you look at NWO, especially NWO, not everybody was elevated at some point. Like Rodog never went for a heavyweight title. He never even like had an opportunity to go for the the belt once. Billy Gunn may have had, but The Rock shoot that shit down. Um X-Pac, I don't if he may have done it, it was probably like in a I will try for the belt, but I'm definitely losing that night.

SPEAKER_01 8:58

But see, but then there is the question of what so are you seeing as being elevated as a world champion? Being someone who went for a world heavyweight title.

SPEAKER_02 9:10

No, I mean like as in okay, the group is done. Are you still like a main addition to the the story itself? Like, okay, yeah, X Pac he later on made it the X Factor, Road Dog and Billy Gunn went to TNA, you know, like they have their legacies. Trust me, they have their legacies, but I f when I say elevate is that it made them into stars. Okay, you know what I'm saying? They made them into stars, and road dog and Billy Gunn, they weren't stars in the WWE after uh DX deformed, they had to go to TNA, build up their value, and then even I don't even think they even came back as a tag team in WWE, they were just dunzo and X Pop.

SPEAKER_01 9:56

Well, I so with what you're saying, right? Now, I would say it's uh maybe a little rougher when it comes to like Road Dog and Billy Gunn. However, Billy Gunn did go on to be relatively successful after DX. Yeah. So it's like, and like directly after DX, I don't think he was like, I s I think I still think that those particular people were elevated. They may not have been elevated to a super top tier, but like after D Generation had D Generation X like dispersed, they did still hold and maintain a value. Okay. Kind of thing. I still say because what was it? Road dog later on, he ended up joining up with uh uh K quick at the time, and they had their they had their run, but he stayed in that lane, is what I'm saying.

The Shield As Gold Standard

SPEAKER_02 10:56

He always stayed in that tag team lane. Jesse Road Dog could never successfully be a singles competitor. If only singles competitor action he ever had was hardcore title and maybe an intercontinental and European, but like even after even after the deforming of DX, he was always in a tag team, he was never doing shit himself. So this is why I was getting ready. I'm I'm breaking down all the other factions and getting to what I believe. If you look at the faction itself and where they are in the future, this is technically the greatest faction of all time, and that is the shield. Everybody in the shield ever evolved into something beyond the shield. Like, yes, you could talk about the shield and say the shield itself was great, but look at Seth Rollins, look at Roman, look at technically Dean Ambrose. I mean, even when he was Dean Ambrose, he had a heavyweight title, you know, he had main event status. Seth Rollins had main event status. Roman Reigns took him time, but he made to he made it to being that elevated superstar that Vince wanted for years. And even after leaving WWE, John Moxley is still as fucking popular as possible. So it's like that faction alone. If you're talking about what made them who they are today, the shield is the best faction of all time.

SPEAKER_01 12:18

So so you're so we're using the shield as like the measuring stick for a faction's success.

SPEAKER_02 12:26

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 12:27

Okay. All right.

Japanese Units: LIJ, Chaos, Bullet Club

Are Factions Elevating Or Just Grouping?

SPEAKER_02 12:29

And I mean, I still haven't gotten to the rest of the factions themselves, but like if we're I'm wanting to measure it to that because to me, if we're looking at what they did after the faction was done and where they are, and they're still getting heavyweight titles, they're still, you know, being in that main spot. We got again the four horsemen, we got uh, and I'm also including Japan, by the way, too, because that was kind of where the original conversation came about. We have LIJ, we have chaos, we have um the Bullet Club, we have House of Torture, we have um United Empire. There's so many different factions, and yes, it's it's always really cool to have a group of people in the faction to to bounce off of, you know, create great energy with. And sometimes that energy can create people into stars. But what I noticed in time, especially looking at the recent Unbound company that was created in New Japan, they literally took two different factions and fused them together because those two factions either crumbled or lost way too many members. So they had no choice, but like they're leaderless, they have no direction, nothing's going on, and they just said, fuck it, fuse. And hopefully that'll fix the situation. And honestly, it to me, I don't I don't see it happening because we have people like David Finley leaving, he's already in talks about potentially going to NXT. We got uh Lij members, um uh Takahashi. He's leaving New Japan for a time period of just like being away. We don't know where he's going, we don't know if he's going to Noah, all Japan, he's just going away. And uh, I don't know if you saw that episode where Yoto Ice he was crying like oh baby, bro. Yeah, that was a funny photo, though. I ain't gonna lie, I don't blame him though. Your homie leaves you, you've been hanging out with the homie forever, and you tell me you leave it, bro? You leave it, bro? Yeah, I would have been the same way. I'm like, don't do him like that. No, I'm I'm saying I would have been the same way. I just agreed, but he was he was baby crying, like they took a whole group photo. He's supposed to be this tough macho, like uh, and he yo give care off me, bro. I I would have been the same way. But I would be like, let me fix face. All right, let's do the photo. All right, man, back to this. But I say all that to say is that uh when I look at places like Japan and their units, I do not feel like their units are built to elevate people. I feel like they're just like, yo, we're a bunch of guys, let's put us together and let's just go with it. The only time I've ever seen a faction or a unit make like waves in Japan was the fucking bullet club. When that first got created, oh with Prince Devin boy guidens back. You you haven't really seen a lot of people get like afraid of guidijens, like terrified. And when the bullet club started, man, those guidens were just like the most hated individuals. I mean, loved but hated, you know what I'm saying? So um, and then Lij, when we had Naido, there was a great faction because Naido was a leader, and then you had chaos, which Okada became leader at one point, which technically that was Shinsuke Nakamura's team, but then Okada took over as Shinsuke Nakamura left WWE. So I say all this to say is I'm wondering nowadays, are factions actually made to elevate wrestlers, or are they just made to just bunch people together because they don't know what the fuck to do with them?

WWE’s Vision: Who’s Rising And Who’s Stuck

SPEAKER_01 16:13

I guess in my opinion on that particular question is uh depend on what show you're watching.

SPEAKER_02 16:22

Okay. So give me some examples of what like factions that are actually doing good and ones that are completely shit. Because I already know one you're gonna talk about is complete shit.

SPEAKER_01 16:30

So when it when it comes to so a faction that's doing good, let's try and see if we can start. Yeah, I would say, and even then it's slightly shaky, but I would say right now, the vision I think is a faction that's as I currently speak, I feel is doing good, is doing the job of bringing these particular faces to a higher level. Now, I will say that I think that with Seth Rollins gone from the faction has made that process feel a little bit slower. However, I also feel like what what they've done so far, they have solidified Braun Breaker as a main event talent. All right, that much they have done. They have, to me, I feel like they have done Brunson Reed a solid enough favor where he is belonging and deserving to be in the main event, plus has like the most protected finisher in WWE right now, and that is a very important thing to have in the year of our who knows what a finisher is and why do they not work anymore? Jesus Christ. So, like when it comes to the vision, though, because then there's then there's Logan Paul. The only person right now who I feel is getting. No, he's the one who's getting the shit into the stick. Austin Theory is. Okay, okay. Because right now, Austin Theory, because of the time frame that he's kind of joining in right now, he's joining in where these guys have been were in a process of being built to be main inventors. And then Austin Theory, what hurts him is the fact that he uh going into this was shit. So he has a lot of like making up to do. Like, I almost compare it to uh how I felt like remember when Chavo Guerrero, like like short, like a little bit after Eddie Guerrero passed away and everything, and you know, and and the Corbin White shit uh blew up in the face. Yeah, shit. And then Eddie Guerrero was just kind of out here never kind of thing. Yeah. Like, do you remember how badly uh Chavo was just getting shat on?

SPEAKER_02 19:16

Yes. Because he wasn't unfortunately, I think in Vince's eyes, you're not Eddie.

SPEAKER_01 19:21

Correct, which is true, he was not, but at the same time, Chavo wasn't bad, he was just small for all intents and purposes.

SPEAKER_02 19:31

Which Ray was too, but Ray had a larger-than-life character. Correct. And Chavo didn't have that same character.

SPEAKER_01 19:37

Chavo was just a Guerrero's uh uh cousin uh nephew. So my gosh, terrible. So so there's that whole bit, right? We remember how like Chavo would just every time he was out, all right, Chavo's losing this match, let's keep him pushing. Like it got to that point, right? After that happens, I do believe Chavo goes, like once his contract is up, Chavo goes TNA.

SPEAKER_02 20:03

He goes to Lucha uh could have sworn he went to Lucha first. No, no, no. Lucha wasn't here yet. Lucha, he was in the first taping of Lucha. Yeah, yes. When did Lucha Underground start? I think it was 2006.

SPEAKER_01 20:16

No. Lucha Underground was like 2014 time. Okay, I'm yeah, my bad, my bad, my bad. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:24

2000, maybe 2015, 2016, probably.

Booking Stigma And The Austin Theory Problem

SPEAKER_01 20:26

Yes, but it was definitely within that time frame. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. But like, so Chawa was taking all these right now.

SPEAKER_02 20:34

No, okay. Remember that I remember that TNA run now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he goes to TNA.

SPEAKER_01 20:41

For me, even though he's on a whole new channel and a whole new broadcasting and all this other stuff. A whole new world. For all intents and purposes, yes, and he is indeed in a whole new world, completely uncanny to uh uh WWE, but even though he crossed over, to me, it to me, he still had that stank of Eddie's nephew. Sure, if that if you want to call it that, but that stink of jobber is what it was. Oh because because Eddie Guerrero was just a jobber. My first rest my first WrestleMania, uh Chavo Guerrero, yeah, I keep saying Eddie.

SPEAKER_03 21:28

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:29

My first WrestleMania, Chavo went into a match with Kane. Oh, that's the case. Kane came into the ring, he choke sland him, pinned him, and took the uh ECW tile from him at WrestleMania. Yeah, fantastic moment for me. Looked real shitty on Chavo. Yes, and from that point forward, Chavo just would just lose. He never won anything. He never won anything. Then for him to go to T and A and win a match, it felt unbelievable. You know, he's telling me they destroyed.

SPEAKER_02 22:00

Up so bad that you was like, nah, fam, that don't make sense, bro.

SPEAKER_01 22:05

For me, yes, because he lost that much. Like, I I almost want to take my phone and just look up tail end of his uh his WWE run and just look at how many L's he took during that time frame. He lost every single time. And so it's like when you lose like that, and then all of a sudden you want to turn around and start winning, to me, it didn't make any sense. And it was really hard for me to get behind Chavo in TNA and and believe.

SPEAKER_02 22:44

And it's weird you say that because when I saw him in Lucha Underground, he he was the lie cheating still, but a scummy way. So when he was going against um Blue Demon and like the legend that he was and using his steel cherry, so I'm like, okay, I can believe this, Chavo. He can't beat you straight up, but he'll cheat his ass off. Which still goes with the lie cheat still, but in a heel way, and everything he did was very believable at that point.

SPEAKER_01 23:13

Now, I would also say by the time that he had got there plenty of years had passed to wash off that WWE stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He had on, he did TNT and then he went, did some indie stuff, and then he landed there. But it's like with Austin Theory, what was he doing last time? The last time we saw him, uh, he was with Grayson Waller getting hit in the face by uh getting punked out, by the way. Punked out and just straight jabbed in the face by Kevin Owens. Yeah. Constantly. Yeah. And then it ended with Kevin Owens, if I'm not mistaken, beating they ass. Yeah. And then shortly after, he disappeared. And so it's like for him to now come back and now he's so big and bad. Because it's not like, I mean, he's a little bit beefier from the last time he was here, but he's always been super clanked and in shape. But it's like before he disappeared, well, it was a John Cena beat his ass, didn't he? Actually, no, wait. No, no, John Cena actually lost against him at that point. John Cena actually let him take a look at the case.

SPEAKER_02 24:21

But Vince asked that from him like, yo, let me so I can elevate him, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:25

Because Vince was still there. And then after Vince disappeared, Austin Theory became garbage.

SPEAKER_02 24:29

I used to hate his A Town Down. It's like you know, like, oh my god, bro. Like, anytime he'll come out to the ring, I'm just like, yo, skip, skip, get this theme song out of here. And his new theme song isn't that much better, but it's not you know, it it's it's it's better than A Town Down. It's better than that. But I don't like his new presentation. He looks like he needs to be in the Deaf Riders.

SPEAKER_01 24:52

So as far as that goes, that's neither here nor there. But it's like right now, with the way that Austin Theory for me kind of comes off as because of him coming into this much bigger and better of group when it comes to the the clientele that they have. It's like he's like a a solid, like mid-tier jobber joining a bunch of main eventers, and he has not been supremely present uh presented in that main event way as how everybody else has.

SPEAKER_02 25:29

The thing about an Austin theory is man, he has the ability to be like the next Miz, right? When Miz says, Hey, I'm done being in the ring, he has that longevity to do what Miz is doing and then potentially get a title, you know, title run with that at some point. But like putting him in the vision to me just made no sense unless Seth gave us a reason. And right now we don't have a reason. I don't know if Paul Heyman is giving a good reason or whatever, but I feel like for Seth Rollins' vision, I would have rolled with it a little bit longer. Okay, you say you want an Austin theory. Explain that now. Like if you adding him into the function, let Seth explain why he feels like that's for his vision. Everything at the point in the beginning of this is Seth Rollins' vision. Okay, what is your vision of WWE? What is your vision of dominance as a faction, as a group? And you see that immediately with Bromberick, and you saw that with Bronson Reed, and oh, okay, a little bit of Logan Paul. I I can see why he's there, I can see it, but now when you're not there, Seth, you're not where you're not there to explain why. And then suddenly Austin Theory. Well, I mean, the vision's technically gone now because Seth is not a part of the faction anymore. He got edged. Well, it's he got literally edged.

SPEAKER_01 26:50

Oh with the judgment day. Listen, what you say is like he got edged. I'm like, pause. Slow down. You know what? I uh thank you for the pause check. Thank you for the pause check. But but to what you're saying, it it went from being uh Paul Heyman's vision. Well, it went from being uh Seth Rollins' vision to I guess Paul Heyman's vision because he's now more so it he had he is now the what he did what we're seeing now is what he has envisioned type situation. Now when it comes to Austin Theory, as of right now, going back to the original thing as you were saying, like I don't it Austin Theory has a lot of work to do to make us believe anything that he's fucking doing. And that's the thing though, because that's a booking situation. That's not him, it's a booking situation. Correct. However, my statement still stands is the fact that like he has he has to be presented in a way where we gotta wash that uh that that super mid-card stank off of him. And it's and it stains like fucking lasagna in plastic bins, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_02 28:12

Yeah, plastic containers, yeah, that stays on forever. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:15

You you whenever you mid-card the fuck out of somebody, it's really hard to clean that off.

SPEAKER_02 28:24

Okay, so we're talking about a faction now that you feel like is at least good. What is a faction or unit to you that is complete shike?

SPEAKER_01 28:33

I would call I don't know if I'd want to call it shit, but like it's the lowest. I don't know who is the lowest of the totem pole when it comes to a faction.

SPEAKER_02 28:46

Okay, how about this? I guess in a sense of what is not elevating the team and it's just hurting the team.

Death Riders And The Lost Narrative

SPEAKER_01 28:52

I now now for that I would have to say the death riders.

SPEAKER_02 28:57

Okay. That's why I figured he was gonna pick anyway.

SPEAKER_01 29:01

And it's like, because and and the thing is, I don't the Death Riders aren't shit per se. Because the the wrestlers in the faction are amazing wrestlers. They got great wrestlers, absolutely. Uh and it's not just so much that the faction is garbage, it's good well then again and going back to it, it is the booking of the faction. Yeah, the faction had been to a degree, to a certain degree, the faction was being booked in a way where it at least kinda made sense, but in more recent turn times, their booking is really weird.

SPEAKER_02 29:46

The booking they had when they had the heavyweight title was really good because it was like, man, you hated the Death Riders because they're preventing you from seeing the world title by putting it in a briefcase.

SPEAKER_01 29:58

And there was a story, and there was a certain message that the Death Riders were trying to get across. Yes. Now, unfortunately, that message got completely lost in the sauce.

SPEAKER_02 30:11

Yeah. Well, no, technically, once they lost the belt, they lost their narrative, they lost everything.

SPEAKER_01 30:15

Not even that. So, like, so John Moxley was trying to go against the system of AEW and all of this jazz.

SPEAKER_02 30:28

Not necessarily. His his thing was, hey, the company is not what it used to be. Every every champion, every person in here is not pushing themselves. Like technically, what he's doing right now is what he was doing before. Just for some reason, he what he's doing this babyface shit now. And before it was like, yo, the company is not what it was. I don't believe anybody deserves to be the champion. And until somebody is deemable enough to beat me and take this title and fin and fix the company, I will keep shitting on it and holding the belt because nobody deserves this belt right now. The company is not in the state it needs to be in. And that's why everybody was hating him. Because it's like, why are you saying that the company is not good when you're the reason right now the company's not good because you're holding the belt away.

SPEAKER_01 31:14

But then he also would go on these little tirades where he's talking about management and all this other stuff. And the problem but my thing that I'm getting at is there was that narrative and they did nothing with it. Oh, okay. Like we didn't have it, we didn't have like a we didn't have like Tony Khan coming out there and you know denouncing the Death Writers.

SPEAKER_02 31:42

It's not trying to be a part of everything anymore.

SPEAKER_01 31:45

Well, I mean, that's fine. But like we did not have a we didn't have a suit come out there. I hate you for that. Yeah. I hate you for that. I hate you for that. You're welcome. I hate you for that. You're welcome. Okay, go ahead. But but uh we we we didn't there's there wasn't like a suit in particular who was fighting against the death riders. Instead, it was just random niggas in the locker room randomly coming together, forming conglomerations and ops.

SPEAKER_02 32:22

It is interesting you say the death riders because I feel like the conglomeration makes no fucking sense and is doing nobody a favor.

SPEAKER_01 32:30

Well, see, here's the problem. The reason why the conglomeration doesn't make any sense, and I could almost argue that it's not actually it actually is kind of helping the people who are in that circle. But the reason why the conglomeration doesn't make any sense is because the death writers' fucking story doesn't make any sense. Okay, okay, so you say the conglomeration was supposed to be a conglomeration is a complete byproduct of the shitty storytelling that went into the Death Riders. Because there's no suits and ties who are trying to push the Death Riders back, and the closest to suits and ties that we had were the EVPs who were dealing with the Don Cowls. Who well, not even that. No, they were cool with the Don Cowles family.

SPEAKER_02 33:17

That's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_01 33:18

They were with they were trying to get with the Donkows family, yeah. Well, we get for lack of better terms, yes. But like at that time, the EVPs who were technically the suits were on their own NWO pseudo arc of their own, you know, trying to be like, hey, uh, we run this place and we're going to uh do whatever we want because we're the EVPs of the company.

SPEAKER_02 33:46

They actually did help them one time, too. They actually helped the Death Riders one match. I remember that.

Conglomeration And AEW Story Pitfalls

SPEAKER_01 33:50

Yes, they they did kind of help the Death Riders a couple of times. As a matter of fact, they were trying to like make a deal with the Death Riders. And you know what? That storyline fell through as well because nothing ever came of that, and nothing ever made sense of it. And so it was like, whatever happened with the EVPs of the Death Riders? Because they would come out there and all it was was so that, hey, we can do the anarchy match. Yay! Get the conglomeration and swerve and the Billy Goat and the retiring, you know, Tanahashi and all that dumb. So it was like their booking has been is what's been shite. Now, going back to the complete original bit that we were trying to say about the Death Riders, is the fact that I just the only person I feel who has benefited from being in the Death Riders and that's barely Moxley. No, he's a that's that's a given. Okay, I know. We're not talking about givens. Okay, Pac. No, not Pac. Pac is done. What is Pac done?

SPEAKER_02 34:57

I mean, so it's Claudio. It's Claudio. It ain't him either.

SPEAKER_03 35:09

Claudio's been a heavyweight champion from this shit.

SPEAKER_02 35:12

From what company? I I get what you're about to say, but technically, he still won a world title. He still won. So who the fuck?

SPEAKER_01 35:22

So first off. It's not Wheeler and it's not fucking Daniel Garcia. See, this is this is let watch what I do here real quick. Claudio does not have the ROH title right now. Not right now, but he had it. He did win it. Oh, he did win it. He did win it. And you know what that did? Nothing.

SPEAKER_02 35:38

Okay, but okay. That's why I said I knew I knew he was gonna do that.

SPEAKER_01 35:42

I knew the the the title that he currently has is the the CMLL title, is what I thought you were talking about. But I was like, damn, bro, how you gonna completely get that wrong? No, I'm talking about RH. But then again, it's like him having the ROH title is like no, it's not even that.

SPEAKER_02 36:01

Let's let's get past this. Who is the one that you're talking about? I'm curious about this now. Arian Shafir. Marina Shafir, okay.

SPEAKER_03 36:08

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:10

Everyone in the Death Riders who is not the person who put the group together. Because for me, when it comes to a faction, the leader of the faction to me does not count as the person that's getting over. They're already over. They're trying to bring the people who they have with them up. So for instance, if we're going over, like, you know, looking at the um uh uh the vision, uh Braun Breaker is the is the person who was being who was the main person being elevated, and everybody else got elevated with them when Seth Rollins was there because he brought them up kicking his screaming.

SPEAKER_02 36:47

So here's the funny part about that, then if you're talking about that too, because technically CM Punk formed the shield, and he didn't need the rub, and they all three of them got what they needed out of that. So, I mean, which is fine, which is yeah. So I was just connecting the dots where you were saying every leader doesn't count, and then I was like, Well, the shield didn't have a lead, but I was like, wait, CM Punk formed them. Never mind, cool, go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 37:14

And so it's like when it comes to like Shafir, I feel as if she's the only one who has really been elevated to any degree because her being with the Death Riders has number one legitimized her as a race. Legitimized, yeah. Well, it did that. Yeah, it also made her be this dangerous force of nature. That is true, and they've protected that for her for the most part. As far as she has a very weird finisher, though. Yeah, the the mother's milk. Yeah. I I'm not mad at it, but um, but it's like she had that she's been protected in that particular aspect of her, you know, looking strong in her matches, yes, and like just being like this, she is someone that some of the women fear to go up against because they know she's a legitimate badass.

SPEAKER_02 38:11

But outside of her, Wheeler Uta got his hair cut, which by the way, I was kind of pissed off at that match. I thought both of them didn't get their hair cut, but it's not the person who got pinned, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 38:21

Yeah, no, it's it was the whoever gets pinned gets their hair cut.

SPEAKER_02 38:24

That's some of that. Now I I knew Wheeler was getting his hair cut.

SPEAKER_01 38:27

I mean, we we all knew he was getting as soon as I say it was a hair match, like, all right, Wheeler's cutting his hair, he's finally ready.

SPEAKER_02 38:33

Yeah, but I thought Marina, that would have been, I would have made sense too if she did it. If they if they did pull the trigger on making them both do it, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:43

If they were in the business of taking risks, because apparently no one in wrestling takes risks anymore. No, unless you're in the indie circuit. But it's like Wheeler Utah to me has done nothing. Outside of putting being one of the person that turned on, you know, what's his name and put the bag on his head to start it all off. Yeah, Wheeler Utah has done absolutely nothing. Nope. His nickname people call is Wheeler Useless, I've heard. Damn. Amongst that's that's even worse than Penn Balor. Yes, Wheeler Useless.

SPEAKER_02 39:22

And to me, that's even like soccer on art.

SPEAKER_01 39:25

God damn.

SPEAKER_03 39:26

All right, go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 39:27

Yeah, yes. You might you might as well consider him the soccer of the squad. Honestly, but but I would be lying if I said that because the person who was really the soccer of that team is Danny Garcia.

SPEAKER_02 39:45

I mean, that's that's a that's a fact. Until before before he got in the faction, though, it was him. It was Euler. Correct, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:54

But now, now then Danny showed up, and now and what makes it worse is the fact that like it's like Danny Garcia wants to be so bad. He wants to be this person, and he's just not that. Like Danny is Danny being a part of Death Rise is probably the most stupidest and unnecessary move because Danny joins the Death Rise. What has he done story-wise for the team?

SPEAKER_02 40:24

And this is exactly what I was talking about. The original narrative are factions not made to elevate people anymore, or are they really just hey, you're not doing shit, go hang out with them now? And you could even see it with, like, say, when we watched TNA uh the other night with the system. You literally took out one black guy and put another black guy in.

SPEAKER_01 40:45

Yeah, so the system is um bad.

Why Big Matches Keep Not Happening

SPEAKER_02 40:53

How how did you feel about that tag match with uh the righteous uh and and uh the hardies? I mean the match was that was the system not systems, that's the four uh the the order four to four, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:07

So so that team, to me, out of order four, yeah, is the most legitimate squad right now on TNA. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Out of a faction, yes. As far as the factions go, they don't have that many factions in TNA. They don't, but in in in the in the lineup for me, it is it's order for uh uh uh the elegance brand and um and and then the elegance brand is literally just a beautiful people mashup.

SPEAKER_02 41:45

Which you're correct. It is it is it's the beautiful people like PMS, beautiful people, and a little bit of lay cool.

SPEAKER_01 41:53

No, well the lay cool is from the the mean the mean shit. I would say it's well if that uh it it's it'd be more if that's the case, it's it's definitely it's beautiful people meets lay cool. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:08

I say PMS because they have meat with them. The elegance.

SPEAKER_01 42:14

Oh, you're talking about the Mr. Elegance?

SPEAKER_02 42:15

Yeah. That's why I say a little bit PMS, because they got meat with them.

SPEAKER_01 42:18

Which that's fair. That that that's fair. That's fair. Yeah. But like, yeah, right now with the the the groups that they have on there right now, because yeah, they don't really which is the other thing when it comes to the factions, is like when you're gonna have you gotta have when you have uh you either have one main faction, or you need to have at least like three to four other factions, if especially if you want them to do something with each other. Like, you know, the the Japanese wrestling style of groups that they have, their units that they have, as far as the the amount of them that they have, sure, that is fine. Cause now there's because now they they're they just fight each other.

SPEAKER_02 43:04

Yeah, they're just fighting. So it's not like it's not like in America where you everything is about story, it's like yo, it's gang gang shit. Yeah, we gang, we gang, we fight.

SPEAKER_01 43:12

Yeah, or in Japanese wrestling, it's gang warfare, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:16

Which is very Yakuza-like, but nothing. But I unfortunately I'm not I'm not I'm not disrespecting any of y'all. I'm just saying, I'm just saying, I'm not disrespecting nothing. I'm just putting it out right now. Not disrespecting anything of that culture or saying you guys are the Yakuza. Not saying that. No, they don't they don't play about that shit. Actually, did you know that Chijiri back in the day was having a little bit of a faction? He had two henchmen that were Japanese guys, and they looked very much like the Yakuza. And Chijiri was starting to get death threats in Japan about this faction, and he was like, Yo, Vince, we gotta stop it. He was like, What? It's getting oh, it's no, like people are thinking we're Yakuza. No, we can't do this.

SPEAKER_01 43:59

That's Funny.

SPEAKER_02 44:00

It's legit. And I didn't even remember it. And I'm just like, wait, he did have the cruiserweight title. He was he was doing all this, and I was like, wow, it was so quick. It was like literally two weeks and it was done.

SPEAKER_01 44:12

Yeah, I mean, yeah, that was Japanese folks, they take that shit.

SPEAKER_02 44:17

They do take your shit. That's why that's why I had to pause. Yo, I'm not saying y'all are. I'm not saying not like that. But gang gang shit.

SPEAKER_01 44:23

Gang war. But I do I do think nowada I feel like nowadays, specifically when you look at when you look at AEW, and then you look at WWE a little. So I won't say WWE. WWE, not yet. But like AEW, and I get the feeling of this with TNA right now. And recently I've been feeling it with uh it, but it with when it comes to New Japan, because I'm still new, I can't necessarily like solidly like declare this. Yeah. But like I do think with those places that I did say, these factions are together so that you can see your favorite wrestler on TV. Like I would say a good example of that is late game NWO. Late game NWO was just the way it was, so that all these people that you're paying to be on your roster is getting some kind of TV time. Okay, bro.

SPEAKER_02 45:34

I feel the Death Riders is just so that these people can get some kind of TV time, which again goes right back into my scenario of these guys have nothing else to do, put them in a group together, it makes them have TV time because they're in a teen, and hey, we need team matches because they used to love those, those, those party team matches, and those were like the faction warfares that you would see, unit warfares that you would see in New Japan. So like they're doing because remember, we get all those preview matches before the actual freaking guard.

SPEAKER_03 46:08

Correct.

SPEAKER_02 46:08

So yeah, um, I feel that's the thing. So to get to a conclusion of this, what do you feel, what do you feel is your ideology of what a true faction should be doing? What should we be seeing from the beginning until when after the faction is disparred?

SPEAKER_01 46:26

So it does kind of depend because the faction, I feel like a faction can have two functions. It can take a couple of decent wrestlers, and then it can take a couple of wrestlers and give them a reason to exist and to do what they need to do, which is entertain the masses. All right. And that's and that that's that's one function, I feel, where it's just like you got a couple of guys, they're not doing anything on the roster, make them be a squad, and then they go out there and do things. To me, that's kind of sort of what uh the um uh which grade uh TNA. Um uh order for? Not order for the system. That's what I feel the system is. It's just a bunch of guys who are good and but they don't have anything to do. So we're just gonna put you guys together and see if y'all can make something happen type deal. Okay. That's that's what I feel they are. And then there is a faction like The Vision, which is we have a main event star. This main event star is going to bring you guys from wherever the fuck you are in the undercard and bring you up to as close, if not at main event status. That's also what Evolution did. Evolution brought made Randy Orton a maid man, it made Batista a maid man, and it made it made Ric Flair feel important again.

Two Purposes Of Factions

SPEAKER_02 48:09

Yeah, actually, yeah. Very much so, because you could never think of like Ric Flair? Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:16

And so, you know, because Ric Flair did have like after Evolution disbanded, Ric Flair had a fantastic run leading all the way up to his retirement. Yep. His real retirement. The retirement that actually counts, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_02 48:29

Did you hear about that guy, the 70, 76-year-old, was it 70 or something-year-old or something? It's like 79 years old. Yeah, doing that matching. He was gone. Yeah, no, don't show that shit to Rick. Don't show that shit to Rick.

SPEAKER_01 48:41

Don't let him see it. Don't let him see it. Please don't let him see it, because then he's gonna get his crazy ass out there.

SPEAKER_02 48:46

He was doing top rope moves and everything, bro.

SPEAKER_01 48:50

If you take care of your body, unlike Rick Lair, you know, you can do that kind of shit. You know what I'm saying? It's a thing. Anyway. But like, but it's like I feel like those are the two, those are the two reasons why a faction happens. It's either A, to make non-main inventors as close to a main event status, or B, it's to give this man, this man, and this man a reason to do something. It's a way, uh reason to reinvent themselves and make them like a thing. And uh a good, well, not a good example, but they tried and they're still trying of that would be the Wyatt 6. The Wyatt The Wyatt Six is that example of taking a bunch of guys who you just have lying around, repurposing them and putting them together to try and make something cool, brand new, or whatever. Because that's kind of sort of what the shield was, too. It was three guys who they just put together, gave them a thing, and had them try and run with it and become great. And they did.

SPEAKER_02 50:03

And it's funny to think that Chris Hero would have been replaced over Roman Reigns. That would have been weird. Yeah, that would have been very weird because Chris uh definitely would have just not been a thing. That would have been but this such a it's such a funny thing. I remember we used to joke about when the first got popularized, be like, next time I wear my shorty before it goes down, ooh. Or like when you when you close to releasing, just oh yeah, that that was a thing our young brains did.

SPEAKER_01 50:44

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Listeners’ Favorites And Ministry Of Darkness

SPEAKER_02 50:46

That was a thing we have. Young versions, young versions, young versions, again. But uh staying back. Nah, I I'm cool with embarrassing myself. But guys, I would love to hear you guys' opinion. Who are some of your favorite factions like of all time? Uh again, people like NWO, Evolution, DX. Uh, we have current, like I said, if you feel like Deaf Riders are great, if you feel like a conglomeration, the Don Callis family, the list goes on.

SPEAKER_01 51:16

The Don Callis family is an interesting situation because I number one, I feel the Don Callis family is being cock blocked a little bit by Creative, in my opinion, because they've had some very they've had some interesting segments where they've had the full family out there. Like uh, but the problem is is just the fact that AEW's inapt creative just can't get their minds right to make stories properly because we are geez, we're like damn near a year deep into this whole bullshit with Okada and Takeshka, and they still have not properly just had a match, and it's like they keep doing a thing where it's all like all right, make them mad, make the mad, make the mad, make them mad. Like, all right, forget about it.

SPEAKER_02 52:21

I'm telling you, I feel like it's gonna be a good one.

SPEAKER_01 52:22

Put the pressure on, put the pressure on, put the pressure, pressure, pressure, pressure pressure.

SPEAKER_02 52:25

Oh shit, they about to fight. Oh, snap is about to it's not. I feel like they're saving it for New Japan, bro. Which is I feel like they're going to. They're not doing that.

SPEAKER_01 52:36

Why how why are we saving it for and what for New Japan? Like what what what's the next super big New Japan pay-per-view? Uh uh Oblivion.

SPEAKER_02 52:46

When is that? Uh remember just saying it at new roads. I want to say it was in it's in March or April. Now, is that like like a big, big event? That's one of their big ones. Yeah, it's like they have a they have uh the big four pay-per-views. They actually have big four pay-per-views.

SPEAKER_01 53:04

I know we just had their big the main big one. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:07

So now we're at the Oblivion, and then there's um something in relation. I can't remember if it's the not the G1. G1, I know it's it's as a tournament, but I don't think it's a pay-per-view at the end. But the G1 classic is a big part of it. Um I know Oblivion is a part of one, and but even with that, that wouldn't make any fucking sense.

SPEAKER_01 53:30

I'm why would AEW, who writes both of these Japanese niggas paychecks, want to have this big name match on a brand that they don't own or do anything with?

SPEAKER_02 53:49

Because Japanese wrestling is a very traditional thing and they like doing their things a certain way. So I feel like it would happen there, but I just don't feel like they would blow the load in AEW.

SPEAKER_01 54:03

But that's where they should be blowing their load. They should. That's like being in an anonymous fucking relationship and then going next door to your to your neighbor and putting your dick in there and getting her pregnant. Why would you do that when you are when you literally are married to this right here?

SPEAKER_02 54:23

Same reason why Takesha went over there with their title and defended it at WrestleCand as an AEW superstar.

SPEAKER_01 54:31

What title did he have? He had the fucking heavyweight title. He never had the uh the AEW title. No, he had the new Japan title.

SPEAKER_02 54:38

Well, that yes, that that's because he took the belt from New Japan again. That's what I'm saying. So the same reason why he can go over there and do that. Well, who did he fight?

SPEAKER_01 54:47

He fought a new Japan wrestler. All right, all right. But here's Yes, yes, he fought a new Japan wrestler, a contracted new Japan wrestler in the confines of his own home, and he lost. Sure, he did have to win the belt, but he won the belt from a new Japan. That was that's like what we the dumb shit that we have going on in goddamn uh uh TNA and NXT sometimes, where uh we had Trick Williams, who was the NXT champion, and he is oh sorry, Trick Williams, who was the TNA champion, and he's defending the TNA title against another NXT superstar at NXT. Or I don't think he ever did, but it would be worse if he defended his the the the TNA title against the NXT wrestler in TNA. That's that's absolute ludicrous. Luckily that did not happen, but that would have been that would have been the worst looking shit. And now here you are telling them to bust all kinds of guns.

SPEAKER_02 56:02

I'm just saying, bro. They're very big on their traditional, like then maybe New Japan need to fork up the money and buy these motherfuckers.

SPEAKER_01 56:12

Whoa.

SPEAKER_02 56:12

Like what why would I?

SPEAKER_01 56:14

The thing about the thing about is with your Japanese wrestling. Unless New Japan is giving me a it's like, hey, yo, listen, I know y'all got that Okada and Takeshka match going on, but like, what if I slide you a couple of bucks to allow that match to happen over here? Unless those couple of bucks is looking at least halfway like Saudi money, why would they do that? That is just that would be a stupid move.

SPEAKER_02 56:40

So again, I'm going off of just how they like keeping their the traditional uh nature of like two Japanese wrestlers, you're wrestling in New Japan or like wrestling in uh a Japanese ring, right?

SPEAKER_01 56:54

Because yes, they could definitely do it in America, but you're telling me when Andrade goes up against Bandito, it needs to happen at CMLL.

SPEAKER_02 57:06

I'm not saying that. I'm just saying that's the right thing. Because that's what that's okay, but that's that's Japanese wrestling for you, though. They're very traditional in their ways, and like, yo, things need to be done this way, and like that, like that's that that's their system. So that's what I was saying.

SPEAKER_01 57:20

But both of these niggas are in an American company.

SPEAKER_02 57:24

I know I'm just going off of what they do or AEW done that. They have not, bro. You're not getting it. Okay, I'm literally saying off of just their principles in Japanese culture and what they do, that is a thing. And I'm saying that they may do that in New Japan. And if they're not doing an AEW right now, maybe either one or two reasons why they don't feel like it's the good time, maybe it's not all in, maybe they want to save it for all in. Or they'll do like a teaser there and then bring it to America.

SPEAKER_01 58:02

That's all I was saying. See, but the problem is now, unless you're trying to unless the point you're trying to make is that it's all stupid and nothing makes fucking sense. Yeah. Cause it's all stupid, yeah, and and nothing make because with what you just explained to me, that would mean like O'Connor's all like Unikan. Bitch. I want to have this match in New Japan because I'm a traditionalist, and since we're both two Japanese men, we should fight in a Japanese ring. As a as a does any of this sound yes, it very much does.

SPEAKER_02 58:45

It very much does with how they are. Yes, it very much is. Nah, bro. Nah, bro.

SPEAKER_01 58:52

You're you are I'm literally going off of just what they've done through the years, man. But who has done it? Give me an example of where there was a match in another company.

SPEAKER_02 59:04

Well, they never really had people that were like, yo, we're both working at this company. We need to go back over here and have that match. It's always been like, hey, he works for this company, he works for this company, let him go over there and have that match. It's always been that, right? So if their relations with another person from that company works for that company, you're correct. You are absolutely correct. But because they have this working relationship, they have that ability to do that. That is what I'm saying. Because you're not gonna see, oh, two TNA wrestlers wrestling in an XT. You're not gonna see that. It's just not a thing we would do here. But in Japan, because they are willing to be like these are two of our people to do that, they would be okay with that. They would be perfectly fine with that. That's it's a little bit of tribalism, yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:02

That's not it's not even tribalism. Number one, for me, that that whole thought process is for one, unless there is a lot of money being exchanged, you're thinking of a booker.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:18

That's what you are constantly thinking. You're thinking as a booker and and not even thinking in a sense of okay, like outside of the booking mindset. Because, yes, as a booker, it would make only the right sense to do an AEW, it only makes sense. But these are two people who are also wrestlers and who want to do things potentially their way, and if they say, hey, if they wanted to do that, that's what they wanted to do. And if they have the ability to do that, they'll probably do it.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:48

Maybe it is because I'm thinking like a booker, because there is nothing tying them to needing to do it over there. Both of these men used to be in New Japan. Actually, both of these knowledge.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:02

No, actually, to Takeshu never was a New Japan guy, he was a DDT guy. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:08

He was a DDT guy. But it's one of those deals where to me, both of these guys, one was in New Japan, one worked in another Japanese company. They purposefully left their Japanese companies to come to AEW. There is nothing holding them to those old Japanese companies anymore. Unless one of them wins the title. And neither of these two currently has really any kind of anything to do. Maybe Okada, but even Okada, the things that he's got going on, I feel have nothing to do with the title. I feel like so, unless they were fighting each other for a new Japan belt of some kind, sure, maybe I can understand why that match would have to happen because it is a new Japan title. Granted, New Japan looks real stupid and looking like TNA right now, getting cooked in the corner, because the only reasons why that match is happening is because they lost their belt to another company, and so now that other company is defending that. Because at the end of that match, that belt does not go back to New Japan, it just goes back to the company because neither of those two niggas work for the other company. And that's the thing, that's the part that because if if Takeshka never was I get what you're trying to say now.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:39

Basically, in a booking standpoint, it makes no sense for these two individuals to go over there, even if it was a thing like that. There's no point, there's nothing binding them to that.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:47

Even traditional-wise, it doesn't make sense because where I thought Takeshka's from New Japan, if he was from somewhere else, the fuck Takeshka got going off for New Japan. He has absolutely negative one allegiance to New Japan to have this grudge match that's being built to even necessarily need to happen in New Japan. But then, of course, there's also that factor of because it always comes down to booking New Japan compared to AEW is bottom tier. Okay? It's low tier, it is what it is. That's the reason why AEW is partnering up with New Japan because in this faction, AEW's trying to pull New Japan out the fucking trenches. But why would they, especially since AEW ain't doing too great themselves, take this amazing match potential that they have and put it on somebody else's platform?

SPEAKER_02 1:03:58

Maybe to elevate that platform? Since you just said they're trying to pull them out the fucking so it gets- Well, we know that's not the thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:08

We know that would never happen. Because if they wanted to do that, then we would have had Kenny Omega, who is it? Kenny Omega Okada. That should have been happening at New Japan.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:18

Okay, now for the continental title, that I can see what you're going with that, if you're going in that sense, but even still, even if it's a monumental, so it's a monumental map. So, so so take that aside now. If you don't believe it's happening then, then when the fuck is it gonna happen?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:37

Now that is a discussion for another podcast, because who knows when it's going to happen. I could tell you when it should have happened, and yet it continues to not happen. And right now, if this was a child, this baby is way overcooked, and we're gonna have to have a C-section because this has been stewing for way too fucking long. If you don't understand, when you I get that, it was just you think that alright because it's messy is the re is the point that I'm also trying to make and get across with it. Because it's messy, and it shouldn't have happened. We should have induced this already and already had it, and we would have had wonderful highlights, it could have been a mash of the year situation and all this good stuff, all in, but that's the thing though. If I'm not mistaken, no, no, no, no. I don't when is all in?

SPEAKER_02 1:05:38

All in is like August or something like that, I think. August time frame?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:42

Think so. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:44

They could have had this at all in already. They could have. Maybe they're probably booking it for this all in.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:53

I I I hope we can clip this so that when all in comes around and this shit. It still doesn't fucking happen.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:02

I guess it just will never fucking happen. Maybe that's maybe it's just one of those matches that we're gonna just tease you and edge you as much as possible. And it's never gonna happen.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:12

Just like uh goddamn uh edge and Chris, I'm sorry, Copin Christian versus uh uh FTR, how that just kind of got that rematch got tossed to the wayside as of right now. Because who knows where the fuck they are? Like, but then again, but that's but that's just AEW. That's AEW booking, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:35

So my biggest intake, my biggest take for this guy is I want to ask you again, going back to the original question, what are some of your favorite factions of all time? What do you do you feel like any of those uh factions elevated everybody in the team? Do you feel like certain factions were just a waste of time? We would love to hear your thoughts in the comments as always. Appreciate y'all's thoughts in the comments.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:59

But ooh, you know what? Because because you made that that that that that that wild ass statement, you you made me forget the thing I was actually going to ask you. What is your favorite faction? Because mine's the Ministry of Darkness.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:13

Hmm, you know what?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:15

That is a good question to ask me at the end. Uh like I said, mine is Ministry of Darkness. Undertaker being the leader. Now, I will say, talking about factions that failed, I as much as I love the Ministry of Darkness, nobody in that faction got elevated. Minion, who gives a fuck? Viscera did nothing until much, much later. Like, well, I mean, there was the acolytes. I mean, acolytes did become something great. They did become something great. You know, but uh outside of that, that was it. So barely.

Closing: The Ring Is Sacred

SPEAKER_02 1:07:54

That's a tough one, bro. Cause like my brain immediately said Nation of Domination, the rock version. Um Farouk. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I I cause when they had that, or as how you said, after they edged him out of the group. I'm gonna have to revisit that question, bro. So guys, see y'all next week, man. We all know that the ring is sacred. The questions are real, the destruction is guaranteed. It's your host who likes to post the Mazakuth. That's whack switch in the building. We all got top.