Monsters Vs. Giants In Pro Wrestling

The calendar said wrestling would be hot, but the week felt like a filler arc perfect timing to zoom in on the stuff that actually makes matches matter. We kick things off with a look at coffin matches and the psychology that used to surround them. When Undertaker shut a lid, the loser disappeared and came back changed. Without that consequence, the stip becomes noise. If a wrestler returns the next show unfazed, you’ve broken the spell and trained fans not to care.

From there, we crown the greatest tag team finisher and explain why it still rules. The Dudley Boyz’ 3D remains the standard: simple, violent, and clean under pressure. It scales through tables, chairs, and chaos without losing definition. FTR’s Shatter Machine is the modern heir a sudden snap that looks final from any angle. We unpack why some teams struggle to land their versions (posting, timing, cooperation) and how the best finishers blend clarity with danger. If you care about tag psychology, you’ll hear exactly what separates a classic from a clunker.

Then we get precise about language that fans throw around: giants versus monsters. A giant is a style immovable base, heavy hands, minimal bumping. A monster is a character fearful presence, ruthless escalation, the sense that you can’t stop the storm. Kane, Vader, Mark Henry, and Big Show all land differently on that map. We also touch the rise of the hybrid big man Bronson Reed, Keith Lee, Willie Mack who challenge old templates by adding agility without losing heft. Finally, we check in on the tag landscape and why teams like Motor City Machine Guns, Private Party, and Street Profits deserve steadier spotlight if promoters want tag wrestling to feel must-watch again.

Hit play for a focused breakdown of stipulation stakes, protected finishers, and ring archetypes that keep stories sticky even when the weekly shows go quiet. If you’re a fan of smart booking, big-man psychology, and tag-team craft, this one’s for you. Subscribe, share with a friend who still pops for a perfect 3D, and drop a comment: monster or giant who owned the ring for you, and what’s the greatest tag-team finisher of all time?

Transcript

Slow Week In Wrestling

SPEAKER_03 0:09

Welcome to another episode of the Big Brothers of Destruction podcast. It's your host who likes to post the Mazaku.

SPEAKER_02 0:16

And it's your boy, Swag Switcher in the building. What was that? Mm-hmm for you. All right. Not my uh my chain doing weird shit.

SPEAKER_03 0:22

Give me my chain, my chain, my chain. So yeah, we started things off, guys. Uh wanna say thank you guys for always tuning into the podcast. As usual, as swag fixes his chain. Unless you want me to just redo this. No, no, no. Oh, okay, okay. I just want to make sure we redo an intro. But again, thank you guys as always tuning into the podcast, the clips and everything. Uh, as always, we're just here every week talking about what we notice in wrestling. But today, I think we're actually gonna be going over a particular topic that we've been wanting to address for a while and never really had a chance to, but here we are.

AEW, TNA, And WWE Filler

SPEAKER_02 1:01

So, well, I mean, uh, we've had chances too, but up until I would honestly say, probably recently, there has been so many things to talk about, which I think is the most weirdest thing possible at this very moment. I would say leading up to about maybe two weeks, honestly, since the Royal Rumble, there has been this weird decline in like things to really go on about with wrestling. Cause I mean, what was it? The week after Royal Rumble, we had that conversation about how like wrestling has just kind of sort of like it's become like real boring for some reason. And yeah, and even this week was really fucking boring. I honestly would say, like, so it's weird. This week was I think this week was like the lowest of the low, but I think it's it's just because of the fact that we're doing this thing where with AEW we're we're working our way up to uh what is it that the the next pay-per-view, which is for when MJF defends the title kind of thing. Uh, you know, TNA is they're they're trying. Like, I will say, I wish I actually would have watched all of T and A this week because I didn't even see the casket match. No, I did not. My week has been so topsy turby and weird where I literally just ended up missing it.

SPEAKER_03 2:31

Shout out Solly for taking a fucking bump on a door into a casket. I was wow.

SPEAKER_02 2:39

So I saw I literally did watch some of TNA. I just did not make it to the casket match. But like TNA, they are after their kind of a I'd call it a dud of a pay-per-view, but like after that, we don't have to call it it was so it's like after like that kind of dud of a pay-per-view, I feel as if like they need to get that pay-per-view just out of the way so that they could actually progress in now because now they've they have some stories, they got stories in almost all categories right now, and so I feel like now TNA is finally got they finally made it to that point where they've given us something to watch, kind of thing.

SPEAKER_03 3:23

I I'm curious on like, okay, so what is the purpose, like just going back to the TNA situation? What is the purpose of a coffin match if you know, because in WWE when they did it, like that person would be gone for a while, like it wouldn't be like you came back the next week, you know. But Mark, I think Mark Henry and Undertaker had one. Didn't Mark Henry lose? And he was like gone for a while, right? Yeah. So then like with Ali, like, how does that work? And is he gonna come back next week and be like, yeah, I lost a coffin match?

Coffin Matches And Psychology

SPEAKER_02 3:51

So it it depends, cause like I see I see you try to stretch it. Go for it. Well, it's not even so much a stretch, it's just it's I think for me, for me, and what coffin matches used to be, it's about who is the person that was putting you in the coffin type thing. And it was a guitar, so yeah. So it's like majority of the coffin matches that we've seen in our lifetime were orchestrated by one man. Undertaker, yeah. That was the Undertaker, yeah. And when you're dealing with a man like The Undertaker, and he's putting you in a coffin, there is a heavy psychological toll that it takes on a person to be put in a coffin, especially by the mortician himself, the Undertaker. Oh, oh so when you look at when they had the coffin mash with Darby Allen in them, it's like it's there's there's no real psychological thing going on there, at least so heavily, type deal. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's interesting that Elias is taking on this mantle of being able to even use a coffin for such a type thing. I I didn't I didn't see Elias as a coffin kind of guy. And so it's uh you know what?

SPEAKER_03 5:23

That has nothing to do with that.

SPEAKER_02 5:25

No, yeah, no, I mean, like let me put it this way like to a small degree, I can get the aesthetic, and because they did the whole guitar aspect of it as well, you know, I'm like, all right, all right, okay. You know, Elias is uh he he's he's working, all right. Yeah, that that's fair. With Darby Allen, like sure I get him with the whole coffin thing. He does the coffin drop, you know, he's this little emo boy, blah blah blah. But I mean, like, at the same time, it's like and I mean when Darby had his coffin match, he was gone for a little bit afterwards, so no, he wasn't gone.

SPEAKER_01 6:00

Bro, what do you mean?

SPEAKER_03 6:02

He was back the next oh, you're right, okay. Yeah, yeah. He was back the next day with a goddamn flamethrower. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was big back. Yeah. So yeah, don't okay, okay.

SPEAKER_02 6:14

Don't even no no no, it was just like, what does big back have to do with like as in as in there's there's coming back and showing your face, and then there's coming back and shooting a fucking flamethrower. You're right. It was just that's me trying not to okay. Do you okay? He came back in a big way.

SPEAKER_03 6:30

No, no, no, no, it has nothing to do with pausing or anything. No, no, no. I'm just saying back.

SPEAKER_02 6:36

I was just trying to cut verbiage, you know, instead of putting like he was, you know, he was what what back in a you using acronyms and all this other stuff.

SPEAKER_03 6:46

See, he was an ultra bag, right? I mean, like honestly, a flamethrower, bro. Like, who the fuck comes back with a flamethrower? Darby Allen, actually.

SPEAKER_02 6:53

Okay, that's what I'm saying. Because that was part two. He's done that twice.

SPEAKER_03 6:56

It's the only name. Darby Allen flamethrowers are just so he's Kane and Undertaker's like little nephew.

SPEAKER_02 7:02

Basket empire. Absolutely not. It's a little nephew, bro. Darby Allen is Mick Foley's kid. No, is Mick Foley's godson, Terry Funk's like distant, like little cousin.

SPEAKER_03 7:18

Actually, I would I would say if anybody, if he was gonna be related to anybody on the MAC too, it would definitely be Terry Funk. Yeah, it'd be Terry Funk. Exactly. Terry Funk would be like an uncle, I some sort of. Oh yeah, yeah, uh, Terry Funk's his uncle. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:32

Not just Terry Funk would be like his great uncle, and the only reason why he's his great uncle is because he has no direct uncles. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you know what I'm saying? So oh boy, which which makes him even more someone to look up to.

SPEAKER_03 7:50

Yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_02 7:52

He's unc. But um, but yeah, no, like uh when it when it comes to the the landscape of this week of wrestling, it's like it I don't I wouldn't say that it's been bad. It's just not exciting, it's just not super exciting. It's like we're like right now, like February has been filler episodes of wrestling. Yo, not the filler arc of wrestling.

SPEAKER_03 8:17

I mean, technically it is before we get to Mania, it's normally like the filler.

SPEAKER_02 8:21

Well, because like with AEW, it's been it's been it's been filler episodes with uh uh uh uh a what do you think flash of a title match? No, no, no, no, no, no. Um uh like uh dang there there's a term for it. Like when it's like uh it's like a a really big like one of those like really big, almost like standalone episodes that'll happen. T V. Yeah, you go okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:53

I remember you you Haka Show did one of those. Like an A, like the not AMV, but it's like it basically is two standalone episodes that is after the show. Okay, just like giving you like perspective of something.

SPEAKER_02 9:04

Yeah, because I know but yeah, but it it's in in that art, in that category. Like like AEW, there has been filler episodes with uh with a TV special, yeah, which it literally was a TV special when they went to Australia, yeah, kind of thing like that. Well, that that's AEW right now. WEWE has been these this filler arc going on as we're picking who's going to be in the elimination chamber and all this other stuff.

SPEAKER_03 9:33

Shoutouts to Kiana James, by the way. Yeah, I I I caught I mispronounced your name Kalani is Kiana. I think I think the L in the I just dyslexia.

SPEAKER_02 9:43

It makes you feel better. Literally on SmackDown, um uh Wade Barrett made the exact same mistake. I'm telling you, like it's it's dyslexia, bro. The L and the I, you know what I'm saying? Which I thought was absolutely hilarious when that happened. When he was like, uh he said, Client, uh I'm sorry, I misspoke. Keon and I'm like, ah, so it so it wasn't just me.

Wardrobe Malfunctions And Gear Talk

SPEAKER_03 10:07

It ain't just you, but yes, you got the dub. You got the dub, and I was shocked, I was very shocked by that match because I was like, all right, man, Charlotte's probably going to the what? Yeah, it was a what? Absolute surprising. Okay, and uh apparently the unfortunate situation there was two wardrobe malfunctions from Jax and uh Charlotte. There was? Yeah, there was a blackout on screen. You didn't notice it, but yeah, there was a point where whenever they uh Jax did the annihilator, I think it's called the the bonsai drop. Yeah, after that, Charlotte drop kicks her, and then they the camera pants to Naya as she like pushes up her top, and you just see and then Charlotte they panned the camera to Charlotte, which Kirk was out too, and it was like they just cut the screen by because it was like two times. It wasn't just one, it was two times.

SPEAKER_02 10:59

That's crazy. It's crazy considering the fact that, like, like yeah, because I literally made this note the other day, like, well, you look at Tiffany Stratton and what she be wearing, right? Now, great. She has had one, yeah, she's had one, but there are times where I'm like any minute now, that's ridiculous. I don't know how you go through everything in your match, and you like like you would think with how her, like how hers be looking, one wrong move, and it's just full boom. Not not a slip, a fucking trip. Like because between her and Megan Bane, like, I didn't look at Megan Bane sound like Megan Bane. Come on now. Can you even breathe? Can you breathe?

SPEAKER_03 11:51

Apparently, maybe I guess so. The girls are good, she be going, but it's like I'm talking there's somebody else that's like extremely no. Actually, it's funny enough. Okay, I saw a fighting game recently, and you know how fighting games love sexualizing their characters, and it was this one character who literally had a thin line, it's a thin line, but she had my uh from uh KOF. She was doing the stance, and they were just and it's just a thin line, and they're just like G's, bro, just bounce. I'm like, bro, how how is it not? No, so kudos to all y'all ladies that you know with with the girls, with with the gear, y'all still able to do it, and uh because I mean some of y'all gear is tight, and I'm like, yo, how are y'all breathing? But y'all still going, and you know, the accident is slips, it happens, it's life. It's just I mean, remember that one time CM Punk was like trying to dig in, dig in his ass because I guess he said he shit himself. You never see that? Uh I don't remember hearing about it.

SPEAKER_02 12:55

I just I don't remember the visually seen.

SPEAKER_03 12:58

You never saw it. It was like a split moment of him, like, but then he was like, Oh shit, I shit myself. Oh, damn. Austin shit himself in the ring too. A lot of I think it's with guys, because you don't never get like a a malfunctionary, you just get like shit.

SPEAKER_02 13:15

So uh what was it? Uh I know from being around a lot of wrestlers and whatnot, like I know a lot of wrestlers they do the thing where like they they don't which is crazy because like when you hear about like the food that's in catering and stuff like that, and then it's like most wrestlers legitimately do not they all they like fast from like I would too. That's what we did in football. I played football back in the day, we fast. Yeah, it's like they they would they would fast and not eat anything until like a couple of hours after they've had their match.

SPEAKER_03 13:47

And kind of and so it's like uh well, except Hurricane Helms, he said he used to eat two Reese's two pieces of Reese's before we went to the ring because it gave him enough sugar. Yeah, but that's just which that which that makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 13:58

That's just Reese's. But it's like no no one's having like a cheeseburger or a goddamn baguette or whatever at the a baguette is crazy, anyway. Just don't uh it was the first two uh food aisles that came to our mind. Well, you know what? You must be real good if you're saying a baguette out of nowhere. You know what I'm saying? I mean, this is WWE catering. I mean, I hear usually in the more you know, in your upper companies that catering is slamming, so there is that. But uh before I actually start talking about the thing that I was gonna that finally answer the the the question that we've had in this parking lot for a minute. What was the thing that you were going to? Yeah, there you go.

Pre-Match Rituals And Safety

SPEAKER_03 14:41

Okay, so shout out to Story for giving me this. All right, what is, and this is the question for everybody in the comment section. I would love to hear your opinion. What is the best tag team finisher?

SPEAKER_02 14:52

The best tag team finisher. So off rip that comes to my mind is uh is the 3D. My nigga. This literally said the same thing, bro, because it's the best, but continue. But that like um I'm trying to think if there's anything. I will say the shatter machine is great.

SPEAKER_03 15:16

It is, it's basically an elevated cobreaker, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:20

Which, yeah, like like 3D, shatter machine, and I'm trying to think if there's anybody else out there who's got like a really like spot on you know who's who you know you know who critically acclaims that they have the best tag team finisher of all time?

SPEAKER_03 15:39

Who? The headbash. The headbangers. What was that? The stage dive. It's a powerbomb leg drop. So Mosh puts you up in the power bomb, and as you're going down, thrasher off the top rope hits you with a leg drop.

SPEAKER_02 15:53

Oh, like like on like some rough rider type shit, but off the top rope?

SPEAKER_03 15:57

Or no, so like, okay, so say thrashers, you're at the turnbuckle right here. I'm right here, I'm elevated to the side, I power, I'm going for the power bomb, and as I'm going down with the power bomb, you tie you synchronize and time the jump.

SPEAKER_02 16:12

Okay, and then you have power bomb and then you drop up the leg. Yep, because what I was thinking was like you got them up for the power bomb, and then they're behind you and they jump rough rider style. You would think because that would also be absolutely dope as hell.

SPEAKER_03 16:29

It would actually that actually be a safer version because you can guarantee the lowrider, yeah. But the other one, like I I've seen Mosh and Thrasher have done it, and every time it does look correct, but there are some times where Thrasher has sandbagged them, but those are just random nights, you know, those happen. But he he claims that they have the best tag team finisher because nobody else has done it, nobody else has tried to do it. And I was like, Well, maybe because nobody wants to do it.

SPEAKER_02 16:57

Like, well, I the well, I would say, uh jumping off the doing a jumping off the top rope leg drop, especially after I've come to understand like how damaging doing a leg drop is looking at what looking at what has the life that Hulk Hogan ended up. Matt Hardy having to infuse his fucking spine. Yeah, it's like because Matt Hardy used to do the off-the-top rope leg drop too, which was one of my more favorite ones, kind of thing. And so it's like thinking about that, it's all like it's probably why a lot of people don't try to fucking, you know.

SPEAKER_03 17:37

And especially when you're doing it off a higher elevation and you having to tilt your body so where this part of your body takes most of the damage, and literally your leg just slightly touches them. So yeah, no, um, you would have to pick a side because I'm if I'm a lay out any part of my body and like tilt it, because I see how Matt does it. The way Matt does it, you can tell he tilts his body to make sure that this part of his body takes most of the damage and this part doesn't do anything. Because you'll notice he'll go like this.

Best Tag Team Finishers Debate

SPEAKER_02 18:06

Yeah. So that's like, oh because that's to protect the person who did leg dropping. Yeah, because like because Naya does it, and I've also am a Yoko Zuna fan, so watching Yokozuna do it, he always which is funny because like when I watch Yokozuna like do the leg drop and everything, it's like um one of those things where when I see it, it's like, yeah, no, Yokozuna has to make sure he's safe because with how thick he was, you know, he he he slips an inch and he's squishing brains, right?

SPEAKER_03 18:43

His leg drop is one of those, like actually, Hulk Hogan, yours don't beat that. Like if he's doing a leg drop, that should be that should be gang.

SPEAKER_02 18:51

So I would say Hulk Hogan's leg drop only looks good because of the way other people sell it. Yoko Zuna's leg drop looks good because he's just a big ass nigga. But but the fact that he does it and he does it so smooth though. This which is correct, just but it's the smoothness and then just the look of the impact. Like his leg drop looked like it would finish you.

SPEAKER_03 19:17

Hulk Hogan's leg drop looks like where as where as Yokozuna is like it hits your chest, Hulk Hogan's look like it actually hits your throat.

SPEAKER_02 19:26

Yeah, Hulk Hogan's leg drop always had that guillotine-looking effect. And and there's also just the fact of when you think about how high Hulk Hogan was jumping, like there's photos where you'll see he is up in the air, legs straight out, and he is above the third rope. That's height, brother. That's crazy. That is that's height. That's crazy. Like, if he was if he was looking to kill, you're killing with that move. You like there there would be no, oh you got me, brother.

SPEAKER_03 20:03

All you would get is there's no coming back from that, bro. Anywho, back to the tag team finishers. Yes, the 3D is the best move in the business. I don't give a fuck. Best tag team move, it's just every time it hits clean, every time, every time. There may have been like one or two mishaps, but that was because the person was prepared. But yo, every time it's clean. Anyway, was there other ones you could think of? The heart attack, uh uh the uh great um, what was the one from Team Alpha? Uh not Team Alpha from um fucking Chad Gable and Jason Jordan, uh great Alplitude or something like that. I don't remember what that one was. It was the elevated German suplex where Chad Chad would elevate the person and then uh Jordan would catch him in the air with a German.

SPEAKER_02 20:54

Oh no, I forgot about that movie. Yeah, that was not that so that one's cool.

SPEAKER_03 20:59

Like right now, I I can't fall of man. Which one was that? I love that the the fucking Ascension. I don't remember how that one went now. Both corners, and then they charge they charge at the person in the middle. Oh, and the like go high and one low, yeah, and they flipped in the I don't I mean, so just basically total elimination from ECW, but that one's not bad.

SPEAKER_02 21:21

Um, like I I would as of right now, it's really 3D in the shatter machine right now. And it's like not even more bang for your buck. Now which one? Now what was that?

SPEAKER_03 21:31

That's the the Yum Bucks. Nah, nah. So theirs is uh what is the rolling version of the small and drop where you roll like this? I can't remember this move. Um The Plunge. I think it is, but like you can flip with it.

SPEAKER_02 21:47

Yeah, I mean uh Mr. Kennedy used to call it the Green Bay Plunge.

SPEAKER_03 21:50

Oh, okay. So you do that, and then uh one of the bucks will do a 450, and then the other buck will come back and do a moonsaw, and that's it.

SPEAKER_02 22:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:00

Skip. Damn.

SPEAKER_02 22:03

There is not much that I like of the young bucks. Like, I mean, sh I I I can get behind the the the BTE trigger kind of thing. But but it's one of those things where and I I mean I guess they're all friends because it's like it's just two people doing the V trigger at the same time, kind of thing. Uh but um but yeah, no, like I'm cuz I'm a I love like the big impact, you know what I'm saying? And the 3D definitely did that. And it's like specifically when the Duly boys did it, is when the 3D was solid because there was there was a smoothness to it and there was an impact to it, and then it's also a move that you can do through the chair or through the table. Or do it. You can do it into a pile of something. Something you know, it's like flaming tables, 3D, blah, it's amazing, you know what I'm saying? And that is like and with the shatter machine. I like the shatter machine because of it's basically like a 3D. It it has the elements of a 3D, and then I think, and then um even with but and there's like that more like it just can boom, it can happen. Yeah, yeah, any moment. Yeah, and I love it. The 3D is always set up, yeah. It's like you got a setup for a 3D. And there is a small setup for the shatter machine, but like you could just hit that shit. Yeah, I know. And it and the way that they do it, it always looks like ridiculously impactful. And I I'm I'm a big person on big impact.

SPEAKER_03 23:41

I I will say when it comes to the 3D, I love how it's literally in slow motion, and you could just see Bubble just and it's the way D Bond just elevates a person, it's like slow motion, and just bubble's like, all right, I'm here, and we're going.

SPEAKER_02 23:56

Because like they they had a grace to it. Like when the Usos have been doing the 1D type situation, which I do love the name One and Done.

SPEAKER_03 24:07

I do love that.

SPEAKER_02 24:08

Yeah, like yeah, one and done, it's a great name, but I just feel like I feel like they can never like hit it properly.

SPEAKER_03 24:15

Like, I don't know if it's because isn't um Jay's the one picking up, or is Jay's the one doing the cutter?

SPEAKER_02 24:21

Jimmy is usually uh uh Jimmy is usually the post, so he's posting them up.

SPEAKER_03 24:26

And it's like weird, it definitely should be Jimmy doing the cutter, but okay. To be Jimmy, Jimmy has more of a smooth coordination how he keeps stuff in the ring.

SPEAKER_02 24:38

Oh, I know it's yeah, I see what. But I think it's also because I think Jimmy does the post because Jimmy is also the bigger oose. So and so it's like he's stronger to hold somebody up type deal. But I also feel like he's and I think because the posts sometimes don't be posting good enough for it, which then makes you know Jay have to like uh like he he it it sometimes he messes the cutter part up kind of thing, and so it's like I think D Von was just really good for for how was a great post because he can get them up there really high. Because D Von was definitely a guy who lived, yeah. Yeah, and yeah, Divon was a sh was a much stronger, stalkier dude, and boba, and all Bubberay had to do is just make sure he could jump high enough, which he could to not make it look bad. Because with the Usos right now, I think there's not enough power in the post, and because there's not enough power in the post, the cutters sometimes just don't look clean enough.

SPEAKER_03 25:44

Well, I mean it it what could be a thing too is the the person who's doing the post, the other person, the the actual one who's taking it, could jump and it could help it too, maybe.

SPEAKER_02 25:54

And I think that might also be the problem. Like, whoever, like the people who are taking the 3D don't know how to take it. That too. And there's like the people who are trying to deliver it can't get the right delivery like they want to. And so it's just like, you know, it just kind of sometimes comes up like uh well, all right.

SPEAKER_03 26:11

They kind of do look like a side net breaker sometimes when they do it, but regardless, uh I would say between us we could both say the 3D. Because what was the Hardy's? The Hardys had the uh the Hardy combination where it was the twist of fate into the swanton.

SPEAKER_02 26:26

Yes, but now they have uh a new one that they do, which is kind of cool.

SPEAKER_03 26:30

Uh isn't it the uh fuck. I know what it's called. It's something um something effect, it's not the side effect. Uh shit, what is it called?

SPEAKER_02 26:41

Do you know? Nah, I don't remember. Cause it's like uh because it's like a uh what did they do? It's like a a like a like a cutter into a twist of fate or something like that.

SPEAKER_03 26:55

Yeah, no, it's like Jeff Hardy's version of uh um his his twist of fate where he does the stunner with it, and uh which by the way I've heard that he's retiring the swanton. Really? I heard that's what I heard.

SPEAKER_02 27:10

Well, I mean makes sense. Probably for everyone's good, because he's been well, he's been he's been sacking people with them swantons, boy.

SPEAKER_03 27:20

Which which being a guy of my size, I probably take that no problem.

SPEAKER_02 27:24

Oh yeah, yeah. Be a bigger guy can take getting, you know, fucking uh uh what what uh what what did uh how does Matt Hard out he calls it uh uh getting crouton, I do believe it is. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:37

Oh, you talk about the the podcast episode when it was with uh Chris Wavely. And that and it's funny you even mentioned that too, because like they always even talking about the the sandwich table spot at WrestleMania 25, and how Matt was like, yo, so I want to do a sandwich. They talked about doing the sandwich table spot, and it was like, how can we do this without me being impaled by the wood? Oh, we just put a table between me and I not table, we put a chair between me, and then they did that spot. But I mean you look at how Jeff was kind of like, I'm not gonna fall on you, I'm gonna slightly fall on it, but like curvy, it was very interesting. They talked about it, but uh, yeah, no.

SPEAKER_02 28:14

So if uh do you have a second favorite like tag team finish?

3D, Shatter Machine, And Execution

SPEAKER_03 28:24

The question is do we count people who are not in teams? They were just in a tag team match and they did a combination move.

SPEAKER_02 28:33

Uh I mean, I guess we could allow it. Because you saying that reminds me of freaking uh swerve and goddamn uh Will Osprey.

SPEAKER_03 28:45

Will Osprey that's literally what my brain went to the house calls uh hidden blade. That was like, ooh, ooh, that had me tangling a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 28:54

Oh well, I don't know, I was like, Carl. Oh, it's like so is it that the house blade or the uh the hidden house or something?

SPEAKER_03 29:02

The hidden call, actually.

SPEAKER_02 29:06

And you say that reminds me, cuz what was it? It was like the yeah, cuz uh because yeah, because I think when uh swerve and hangman did it, there was the well what was like the I thought it was like the no, what what because it was like the no who because no, I think it was either Hangman and Will Ospreay, because I was like the buckshot blade.

SPEAKER_03 29:34

Oh yeah, the buckshot blade, which would be like would it be just like a gun that just shot a blade? I mean, metaphorically speaking, yes, but that would fucking suck. Actually, I would take a bullet instead, thank you. Because at least the bullet can go through me anyway. Um, but yes, I I can't really say because I would say if anything, it would be that. It probably would be um that move, but I'm sure I can't think of anybody else who has a a good tag team finished. I hate the heart attack, I hate it. It it's it's literally just an elevated clothesline. I don't like it.

SPEAKER_00 30:14

Excuse me.

unknown 30:15

I will.

SPEAKER_02 30:16

The heart attack sometimes. It's anytime I see the heart attack, like like the people who create the move, they they always had down pad. Anytime anyone repeats it, it looks like you're going to kill somebody. Cause they always because they always almost completely land on their neck type thing. It's it's so bad. But like uh, but yeah, it's like as far as like impactful tag team moves, like, yeah, that's those those definitely are kind of like that. That those are the spots where I'm at. You know, there's because there are some moves where it's like it's kind of cool. Or wait, what was the authors of pain's finish? It was called the name was dope because it was called the Collider. And it's like they both picked them up, like they're going to power bomb them, and they slam them into each other, and then they drop them.

SPEAKER_03 31:09

Oh, that was the double team. But I thought the other one was the where one would closeline while holding the other one like in a German suplex. So like you would closeline into a German suplex. I thought that was their finish, too.

SPEAKER_02 31:21

I think they did that, but I don't think that was their finish. Because they finished people by doing the collider, picking them up, huh? Collide, power bomb. And so it was like, eh.

SPEAKER_03 31:32

It was alright. I used to, I used to miss their fucking theme, so I used to love that shit.

SPEAKER_02 31:37

Well, listen, all those pains were uh they were no joke.

SPEAKER_03 31:39

Yeah, they were no jokes.

SPEAKER_02 31:40

Problem is they were too strong, yeah. They were too strong, and they didn't have the right type of people to like fight up against them to make them look good.

SPEAKER_03 31:48

Well, no, they were they're a limited tag team really in WWE because it's like after a while, it's like, okay, if they're so strong, they should be beating everybody, right? Correct. And then now you're putting people in front of them, and then people are beating them. But in any situation where a person is beating the authors of pain, they can never do it clean. You cannot do it clean. It has to be some kind of like, oh, I used the weapon, or oh, I did this, like which for a while they were kind of doing it.

SPEAKER_02 32:18

Yeah, they were, but they think they did DIY was the one that did it number one with them, they did it too much, and they did not like they they couldn't figure out how to mix the men like with the regular tag team, you know what I'm saying? Because it was like what I feel they could have done, like if they would have given them the titles, because they never had the tag team titles. Did they do? Because remember, DIY beat them for it. Um, you know, I'm talking about main roster. Oh, yeah. Because like NXT, yeah, they did have the, I think they did have the tag team tiles in NXT. For a couple of times, yeah. It's like on the main roster, because it was it's weird, because like they didn't stay a long time in NXT.

SPEAKER_03 32:58

It's mainly because well, the mainly thing about it, remember the main roster situation was because um the manager, his name, uh Paul, I think, is something, he didn't yeah, or in the off or something like that. He didn't he didn't go with them, he wasn't on the road with them anymore. He after after they went up to uh uh the main roster, I think because he lived in Florida, so he was like, Oh, well, if it's here, yeah, I can do that. But like the minute y'all like on the road, oh, I'm too old for that.

SPEAKER_02 33:26

Yeah, there was that piece too. Uh which because the authors of pain, they they they needed a manager kind of thing. And he was the perfect guy. And and it's funny because like that's like that in itself is the whole topic of of a thing to talk about, which is the best managers. Well, not just best managers, but the lat what managers can do for wrestling right now.

SPEAKER_03 33:52

I feel like you would also make sense of that because technically for the house, you're kind of their manager.

Giants, Monsters, And Archetypes

SPEAKER_02 33:58

I am to a certain degree. Like, I mean, this what my actual job is is uh I I I I'm actually more so the documenter. So it's like I'm I always have a camera, I'm always recording everything. But for lack of better terms, you could say that I'm their manager. Well, because you do pump up moments too in the match, correct. But I do believe uh because there I think there is a difference. I'm more a valet, I guess you would say. Yeah, because managers normally get involved in matches, because well, even I mean, so I but it's one of those things where someone who is considered, and this is me without doing any research, just from what I think I understand, is the fact like when it comes to a manager, a manager is someone who is the the manager is technically the one who is in charge of the group of people who he oversees. Oh, it's like Don Callis. So yeah, so like yeah, Don Callis is a manager, so it's like he is for for all intents and purposes, like the people who he have under his group, they're technically signed to him type deal or kind of thing.

SPEAKER_03 35:16

Now Bobby Heenan type shit, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:18

Yeah, so it's like you're signed under a manager, but a valet is just someone who comes out there and is just with the team. Yeah, and so granted, it sometimes I feel weird calling myself a valet because usually you hear that you would think women. Yeah. And most and usually that is like the spot that a girl usually takes up.

SPEAKER_03 35:44

Well, then you got people like AJ Francis. He has this one boy who is basically a valet, he's not a manager, exactly a valet.

SPEAKER_02 35:51

Because AJ Francis is the man in charge, yes type thing. And so, so yeah, that's that's that's the difference in those particular bits. Because for all attempts' purposes, like it is in between well, Ray and Bobby is the house, and so so they are that for all attempts' purposes, they are like the main seers of the house type deal.

SPEAKER_03 36:13

You need to get in that manager role, bro. Start cutting promos, bro.

SPEAKER_02 36:17

Which I could, I just have to there are steps that I need to still take in order before I can like start doing things of that nature.

SPEAKER_03 36:29

We will have to talk about though, because I'm curious because I I either doing commentary or being a manager, I totally could do a manager in my in my situation. I could totally do a manager anyway. Uh, but yes, so guys, let us know your your thoughts in the comments, please. What is your favorite tag team finisher? Would love to hear. And also, if you can, please leave a like on the video. It helps us with the algorithm because there are not enough people who are watching us, but you guys keep saying that people should be watching us. As a matter of fact, we have somebody who wants to interview with us soon. So we had a couple of interviews we could potentially have them, but that's the thing. But swag, please introduce and present the topic of the day.

SPEAKER_02 37:03

So no, the topic of the day, the topic of the day is not now. So uh a couple of shows, a couple of episodes ago, we had a random tangent where we were talking about uh pretty much the the thing was about monsters and giants kind of thing. And we were kind of sort of trying to figure out if one is if they would be the same or if they're really two separate entities, which I would have I originally was saying that they are indeed two separate entities, and but I also was like, that was just me just speaking from what I thought I knew, and turns out I I am still right. I I knew correctly, but I went and I did some research and I looked it up, and I also while I was looking that up, I was just like, I kind of like looked into a couple of other things and did some research. I wrote it all down, I got on my little handy dandy phone book here, and so we just got a letter having asked. I wish I wonder who it's from.

SPEAKER_03 38:16

I knew you was gonna do it.

SPEAKER_02 38:18

I was like any moment now, but uh but yeah, so the main thing that we was answering, which was about monsters and giants, right? So the main difference is the fact that one can be both, but the other one does not necessarily have to be the other type situation. So, for the example of saying the fact that giants are literally just people who are of immense size, okay, and so and there's also somewhat actually kind of considered the fact that it's also a fight, it is a style of a wrestler. There are wrestlers who fight like giants, kind of thing, which are normally you know slow moving, hard-hitting, but very difficult to knock down, kind of thing. That's kind of sort of the whole giants aspect. Like, as a matter of fact, one of the things that I have here is it specifically says uh their in-ring style often emphasizes their sheer immovability, but some will have limited move sets and move at a smaller pace kind of thing. So they're often a little clunky, a little slow type deal. And it's funny because like when you think about that particular term, giants are almost extinct nowadays.

SPEAKER_03 39:58

Kind of kind of not see the the interesting thing about I was thinking back to because you haven't brought up what monster is yet, but I was thinking back to the connection between what is the difference between a monster and a giant. Literally, almost every big man that has been introduced in the WWE started as a monster. They start think about Big Show when he first got in and he threw the stone coal out. He was considered a monster, but then later on in time, he became a giant where he was, yeah, I'm big, my my moveset is limited, but I'm not destroying people, but I'm here. But when he first started, monster Braun Strowman, monster, became a giant because he was no longer the monster among men, he was the monster of monsters.

SPEAKER_02 40:43

So I guess to help try and separate one from the other, when you come to a monster, right? The specific thing I have written down here says a monster, on the other hand, describes a wrestler's character, and I do believe that is also another that's a key piece to add to it, because a giant usually is not necessarily a character, it is uh it's more so it's it's literally like a type of individual to a certain degree.

SPEAKER_03 41:18

So it doesn't have to be a giant person, it could just be a monster character, like say technically Oba Femi, he's a monster right now.

SPEAKER_02 41:25

Correct.

SPEAKER_03 41:25

And he's not tall, but he's big.

SPEAKER_02 41:27

And so, as it says here, uh is uh you know described as a wrestler's care a wrestling, a wrestler's character, ring presence and in-ring dominance. A monster is an unstoppable, scary, and often brutal heel. Do they have to be heel? They don't have to be, okay, but they're usually best seen as a heel. And then it says, uh uh, who inspires fear in both fans and their opponent? A monster doesn't necessarily have to be a literal giant, as it says, uh, and then it puts in parentheses wrestlers like Brock Lesnar, Big Show, Van Vader fits that description. Van Vader was totally a monster, and then they say, but they are portrayed uh as extremely powerful and uh and nearly unbeatable, often destroying their opponents.

SPEAKER_03 42:28

Yeah, no, Van Vader in Japan, a god. Okay, like you he they brought him over there because we want somebody who looks unbeatable.

SPEAKER_02 42:38

And Van Vader was unbeatable for a very long time, and so with what you can say what's going back to when he was talking about Big Show, Big Show, when he was first brought in, you could say that Big Show was brought in as a monster, and because the one of the main big things with a monster is the fact that, like, you know, monsters, they have this, they have this thing about them, and they're almost like this unrelenting force that comes behind what they do, they're hard to take down, they're extremely powerful, and they're extremely strong, kind of thing. Now, going back to what I said earlier, monsters can be giants, and that's what Big Show, as you were saying, that's what Big Show was. Big Show is a giant physically, and to a certain degree, and some of the ways that he moves are very giant-esque. But he, when he first showed up, he was indeed monster, kind of thing. Kane is a perfect example of monster, too. Now, Kane, yeah, Kane is indeed like he is like the poster. He is the poster child.

SPEAKER_03 43:57

He's the definition.

SPEAKER_02 43:58

Yeah, he is the poster child. Monster child for monster, because everything that we say here, he embodies that. However, even though he embodies that, he is as tall as a giant.

SPEAKER_03 44:13

But you would not call him a giant. No, you wouldn't. You would only call him a monster in every situation with the mask or without the mask, back with the mask, with well with team hell. No, he was a giant.

SPEAKER_02 44:26

No, no, no, no. So Kane has always been a monster, and this is where we get into that other thing that you just brought up. It's like, what if they have to be heel or face? Kane has always been a monster. He's just more tame than other times. Cause you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right. Because like when you look at Undertaker, Undertaker is a monster.

SPEAKER_03 44:54

Undertaker, I get it now. Okay, okay. I think I get it now. I think I get it now. It's people, like you said before, who create so much terrorist. Like Braid Wyatt was a was a monster. Bray Wyatt. The fiend was definitely a monster. And before you know, Uncle Howdy is technically supposed to be a monster.

SPEAKER_02 45:12

Yes, Uncle Howdy is to us. Now it's a little hard to say with the because he has he doesn't have a whole lot of matches, but it's like the the Wyatt's themselves are portrayed as monsters. Got it. They're supposed to seem as monsters.

SPEAKER_03 45:30

Got it, got it, got it. So then Braun, Braun, um not Braun, Strom. Um why can't I think of his name? What are you talking about? Not Breaker, the other Braun. Shruman. Yeah, Bron. No, no, no, no, no, because that's that's the one that's gone. I'm talking about the other Bron. Sinreed? Yeah, there you go.

SPEAKER_01 45:53

Damn.

SPEAKER_03 45:55

Bronson Reed. All right, so Bronson Reed to me is a monster, though.

SPEAKER_02 46:05

So Brunson Reed, Brunson Reed's a weird one. Like, because I would say he creates terror from the tsunami. Sure, but that's just one move. Brunson Reed is more Brunson Reed is more of a so Brunson Reed actually, I think he falls under this new hybrid uh uh uh uh big man that exists nowadays. So just big man. So as far as if we were to say which one of these he is specifically, I would think that he he more so he more so wrestles a giant's kind of like I got it, I got it.

SPEAKER_03 46:57

He's a giant with a monster move.

SPEAKER_02 47:00

Well, but see, it's not just a move. Cause uh what makes a person a monster is not so much the moves that they have, it's how they perform in the rent.

SPEAKER_03 47:13

That's what I'm well, I get that part, but what the reason why I say monster in that sense is because it's a move that is it it's so protected that the the minute you see it being done, it's like oh my god, that person's dead. Oh my it brings terror, but that's not enough to make you a monster. That's that's what's a monster move. I didn't say he was a monster.

SPEAKER_02 47:35

Sure, he has a monster move, but then so is so was the tombstone, so was the jokeslam. You know what I'm saying? So was the like so was the Vader bomb in the in the in the flip that Vader used to do off the top rope. Like, sure, monster bomb, monster moves. Oh, I'm thinking it's when he did the power bomb. Yeah, but it's like monster moves, sure. But just because you have a monster move does not make you a monster. That's why I say I am telling he's a monster.

Kane, Taker, Vader, And Mark Henry

SPEAKER_03 48:08

I say he's a giant with a monster move. Sure, but the but moves aren't have they'll have nothing to do with anything right now. I know I'm I'm just I'm stretching. If you have no, I'm stretching now. I'm stretching. Uh, you don't need to stretch. Stop, stop. I do need stretch to make sure make sure I'm limber. Anyway, but uh, but okay, so between the difference between a giant and a monster, I can I can get where you're coming from now. It took me it took me the explanation of Kane Undertaker, uh you know, somebody like a great Kali when he first started.

SPEAKER_02 48:42

No, no, no, no. Well, Great Khali 100% giant.

SPEAKER_03 48:47

Even when he first started, yes, 100% giant. But like he had he did the whole tremendous fear shit, though.

SPEAKER_02 48:53

So though that whole putting fear in your opponent is one thing, using the pieces that we have right now, look at Great Kali and you look at Undertaker, right? What is something that Great Kali did less of versus when Undertaker fights him or anyone else? You can knock down Undertaker. Undertaker will take bumps, monsters can take bumps, giants do not.

SPEAKER_03 49:28

Okay, now if you're putting that in perspective, because what I was thinking was because when Undertaker was going against Kali, he had fear.

SPEAKER_02 49:35

This is true, and I think that also kind of goes into the other half of this piece because uh a giant is I'm sorry, a a monster in wrestling is kind of sort of considered an archetype, you know what I'm saying? And so let me let me let me switch over to my other thing, as where a giant often they they kind of sort of look at as like a a giant where where there's the different archetypes, and when you look at these different archetypes, you're talking like um excuse me here, like monsters fall under that same category when you think of your heroes, your you know, um uh what do they have here? Your rebels, your pretty boy fighters, supernatural forces, which supernatural forces is like a subsect under monster. However, which is how I would consider uh um Uncle Howdy. Uncle Howdy has not really demonstrated a lot of monster tendencies, but he does fall under the supernatural forces bit.

SPEAKER_03 50:56

This is now making me think of SmackDown versus Raw. I think it was 2011. It's very much everybody had the showman and the brawler, okay.

SPEAKER_02 51:03

Which all those are archetypes, what you're saying. Yeah. So just looking at the things I have here, right? So, like, and then they do they give examples, right? So, like, so there's you got your heroes, all right, in which are you know good guys, heroes faces you know, all round good guys, and they gave the example of like Hulk Hogan and John Cena, all right? And even more currently, you would say Cody Rhodes. Cody Rhodes is a hero. Then they sell, then they gave like I have you know, villains heels. Pretty much your definitive bad guys. And uh now in this particular example, you we can say, you know, you're triple H, you're just villain heels, or you can say peak Roman Reigns, bloodline Roman Reigns.

SPEAKER_03 51:56

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:57

Bloodline Roman Reigns embodies everything that a heel is hard to beat, but also will cheat type situation, right? And so we go, and then it's like they there was, you know, you're uh so when it came to like monsters, other people that they also uh defined as monsters, uh, we said Vader, but another person who was a monster, Mark Henry. Hell yeah, with the Hall of Pain, hell yeah. Now think of how Mark Henry wrestles versus He did take a bump.

SPEAKER_03 52:31

He did take a bump.

SPEAKER_02 52:32

Yeah, versus a uh great colleague. Yeah, he did take a bump versus a big show, not Paul White, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 52:42

Big show did take some bumps, but Paul White did not, yeah, you're right. I mean, wait, Paul White took bumps, big show didn't. Correct.

SPEAKER_02 52:49

You know, you gotta yeah, I hit Big Show a couple of times before he knocked him back.

SPEAKER_03 52:52

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:54

You know, when you're it's and that's like when you're because you know, when you're when you look at Big Show, the only thing that's knocking Big Show down easier than anyone else is a monster. And so when you look at how we was talking about with Braun Strowman, Braun Strowman is a monster, but he is a giant. I will say Braun Strowman is a giant monster.

SPEAKER_03 53:20

Okay, first of his kind, playing. I was not I can't think of anybody else right now, who was like a solid giant monster.

SPEAKER_02 53:30

Oh, I mean there were times where Big Show went the monster route, like whenever he teamed up with Kane and stuff like that, you know where he was teaming O'Taker, or when he did the WMD and he had that moment where he was actually getting his his little shine. You know, so it's like Big Show's had monster like moments.

SPEAKER_03 53:51

When he was with Paul Heyman and used to wear the tank top with the black pants. Well, see there, yeah. Yeah, and he used to the showstopper actually meant something.

SPEAKER_02 54:00

There you go. So it's like Big Show has had monster moments, but he mostly was just a giant kind of thing, right? But uh, but there's like you look at people like you know, Vader, Mark Henry, and it's like that's why when I look at Brunson Reed, going back to when we was talking about with Brunson Reed, like to me, I think Brunson Reed is more giant. Now, as far as like he he is more giant, but he also falls under that that interesting category of big man that exists nowadays, where these these athletic giants, you could almost call them. So it's like, you know, Willie Mac.

SPEAKER_03 54:46

Yeah, we immediately think of Willie Mac.

SPEAKER_02 54:49

You know, people who have the ability to who who can take flight as a big man.

SPEAKER_03 54:56

Exactly. I feel like yeah, any big man, Key Flee, any big man who can take flight is big man. Yeah. Yeah, so it's like and I'm which technically that was Paul White, too, because he used to do a moonsaw.

SPEAKER_02 55:08

Yes. Paul Paul White was Paul White was an interrupt.

SPEAKER_03 55:12

No, excuse me, excuse me, that was the giant. I apologize. That was Paul White. That was the giant WCW. Yeah, he only did it in WCW. He actually even did kip-ups in WCW. So yeah, he used to kip-ups. You know what I've seen, all right.

SPEAKER_02 55:27

Now I just said that I do remember seeing that before.

SPEAKER_03 55:30

He did use the kip-ups, which makes me wonder, man. Like a young Paul, like a young giant in a WWE would have been crazy. Oh, that would have been crazy. But uh, any of these other archetypes you wanted to uh address that uh I feel like that would that would that help me understand a lot about monsters and giants and the differences.

SPEAKER_02 55:53

So like as far as like other little archetypes that they had on here, because like they would they they name an archetype and that the when it comes to archetypes, there's there's a lot.

SPEAKER_03 56:03

Oh like we're talking about like a way like a huge, huge amount?

Big Men Who Fly And Evolution

SPEAKER_02 56:07

I mean, like I when I was looking it up, but the problem is the fact that like what they'll do, because there's no real true blue definition. Like there is there's nothing that specifically says this is this and that is that, yeah, kind of thing. Cause like I would see because like I also did this for like I would say you could say like wrestling styles kind of thing, right? Which I'll get into those in a second. But what but both what happens with both of them is the fact that like sometimes they'll give you a uh an archetype, but then they'll give you another archetype that when you kind of look at them, you could almost just say like the archetype name and the one that they gave is technically this one, just uh another lane of it type deal. And so it's like for instance, like with how we're talking about like so like a brawler and a bruiser, kind of sorta, yeah. Yeah, and so because just going just to go down the line that I had here, because they they uh they were like they they gave the idea of like a pretty boy, which That's a Dolphin of Sean, which is I think to me is more almost like a showman type situation. Dash and Cody Rose, and so but the the example that funny enough the only the example that I they specifically gave was a Rick Martell kind of thing, not even a Rick Rude so I think Rick Rude technically, but I but and and that's where it comes to that weird villain, but then there's like that whole thing where I feel like I think pretty boy is just the subsect of a showman, so a showman villain? Well, not even I mean you not even including the villain piece, because I would say, because Rick Martell, he was more of a showman type guy, as far as like, you know, the cocky, because like the way they describe as like uh, you know, who uh relies on their looks, often portrays as arrogant, narcissistic personality kind of thing. That's Rick Rude. So but it's like with the like with that breakdown, yes, that is what Rick Rude was, but there's like when you specifically are looking at someone who's like a pretty boy, like then you would then you're looking at like an early Shawn Michaels type thing. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You know, where they're like, you know, and then um, oh man, who's another? I don't know why who is another one that comes to my mind as like, no, so I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 58:55

So when you say pretty boy, are they they're always flaunting their looks? Like, I'm a I'm so fucking good looking. Like your shorty wants to be with me.

SPEAKER_02 59:02

Okay, yeah, so like for so, and that's there it is, Tyler Breeze is the one who's I mean fandango didn't really do it, but he he did it.

SPEAKER_03 59:15

Fandango does he would say it was more his charisma was I would steal your girl.

SPEAKER_02 59:20

Well, yes, but that and that would still kind of fall under that that idea of him being the pretty boy showman archetype kind of thing. But it's like but that's the thing I would say is the fact like they'll like I'll find something and it'll give a name, but then it's like they'll give another name to something that's like similar, but only just slightly different, but it's only because like they like more so like a more specific definition kind of thing. Got it, and so what are the other little things that they had here? So they like they they gave like re a reb, like you know, your rebel type people, anti-hero, which is your Stone Cold Steve Austin, then your supernatural forces, which is an undertaker, and they actually even in this one they put Bray Wyatt and then uh and then they were like your foreign forces, which are like your people who specifically are like they rep their you know country very hard.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:17

So yeah, so like uh Iron Sheik, Sheik, Rusef. Yeah, Rusef, um fuck um Nikoloff.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:26

Mm-hmm. Those kind of people.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:28

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:29

Or you could even say, you know, which is the reason why the un-Americans. The un-Americans. You could also say, uh, I was about to say, like, going back to like Great Kali, he also was that as well.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:41

Actually, better was Muhammad Hassan. Oh, yeah. Well, god, that theme song immediately hit my brain, boy. Why do this another conversation? Why does all anybody from like like Great Khali, Mohammed Hassan, they always have banger theme songs, bro?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:02

Because that culture has just banging music, bro. Bruh, every time. Every time have you ever just like Bollywood listened to that kind of music? Just straight up lit, nothing but banger. Yeah, the beats are always fire. Yes, absolutely. So it's like that. Like, I remember on my wrestling game, I created this wrestler who was like like based on like someone from like you know, the Middle East area type situation. And this was back when you can still change the theme songs. I don't remember what the theme song was now, but I created this character, his name was Shashank Gupta, was his name.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:42

I do not remember that. I used to be all up uh all over your roster, so that's crazy.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:47

He was uh he was like a late character I made, like going into like okay, so like when like at the point we weren't like really blending each other's rosters again. This was like like 2016, 17 era.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:00

So interestingly enough, me and Swag had our own federations, like and I find that every funny, every wrestling fan has their own federation. So I I took up C A uh CWA, which was Capcom Wrestling Alliance or Association, and you had Volt Tackle Chip, V T C W V T C W. So Volt Tackle Championship Wrestling, and and one of the things that I tried to do with the universes is try to blend those universes together because while when I was living in North Carolina, I wasn't able to hang out with you, so the only way I could still have some connection of you was like putting your wrestlers in my roster to be like, yo, guess what? Such and such did. It was fucking crazy. So uh, and that's kind of how I ended up taking Vega from you. And Vega ended up being like one of the best tag team wrestlers in my company, which is crazy.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:55

I mean, hey, at least he went over there and became like like in the legend. Got into his main event bag because he was just a mid-card wrestler of mine.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:02

Yeah, no. He he he came over there and he became who who would you say would be the greatest? What would say the greatest? Who would be I'm trying to think of a tag team where it's like, yo, if you saw them in a match, it's like, yeah, you're you're losing this. Like authors are paying, I get you say, but like not in that monster aspect, but like these are like the best of the best.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:24

Pro I would say, like, maybe uh like TNA run motor city machine guns. Fuck yes. Like, I think that would be a fuck yes. Oh my god, yes. Motor City Machine Gun back in the day was oh listen, TNA run motor city machine guns were those guys, boy. Oh my god. They they were what the Young Bucks wish they were. That's that's a fucking shoot, bro.

Tag Team Scene And Missed Opportunities

SPEAKER_03 1:03:51

I'm shooting, I'm shooting it, bro. I'm shooting it. Because I mean, some of the stuff that Motor City Machine Guns did, man, it was dope. Young Bucks are great. I love Young Bucks, I love them, but like the the credit, I feel like some people give the Young Bucks and people shit on Young Bucks. I don't think anybody shit on the Motor Save Machine Guns.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:12

Oh, yeah, no. There's the Motor Save machine guns were always good. I think the only thing like what what what stops the Motor Save machine guns from being talked in like the same brackets as uh as the Young Bucks is the fact that Young Bucks created their own company. Like, like that that's not where I was going to say. But at the same time, that mean you that is a fact. That is true. That that that is true. That's a huge fucking flex, man. That's like that can't you you can't really, you know, argue that piece. The you know I was I was gonna say is the fact that like that the Young Bucks they made their name in a company that at the time was arguably the best company producing content at that time, and that was New Japan. Young Bucks were running amok in New Japan back when TNA was ass, WWE was garbo, and those were the only things we had to watch, and then people started watching New Japan, and who was over there at New Japan?

SPEAKER_03 1:05:28

Young Bucks and Kenny Omega tearing it up, doing the thing, tearing it up, PWG too, PWG, they was going crazy in there too. Uh Ring of Honor, but T their TNA roll wish who Generation Me.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:43

Oh, yeah, yeah, that piece. Yeah, yeah. So it was like, so it's one of those things where like if I would say if if if it's swapped, excuse me, if you had swapped, uh I would I would easily say that the motor city machine guns. Would have been firing on all cylinders in the exact same way.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:05

I feel like, man, and I know they went to WWE because you know they wanted to go there, but I feel like, man, to see the young birth young bucks versus the Motor City Machine Gun right now, that would be a crazy match.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:20

I mean, oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:22

A wonderful spot fest, you know what I'm saying? And then add the Lucha Bros. I would die right there. I just die. Go ahead, just send me up. Send me up to the wraps, bro.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:32

Good. Well, lucky for you, that's never going to happen because the lucha bros will never be a tag team.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:37

And also, Motor City Machine Guns got pushed to the back. Like the Street Prophets, which, man, god damn it, Street Prophets. I wish so much better for the Street Prophets. I just wish so much better. And the thing about it is you can't even go to TNA and be better. You can't go to AEW and be better because they don't even treat the private party, which is a dope tag team, by the way. It's a fucking dope tag team. And they're just never getting shine. I mean, they were one fucking time. And it wasn't even for long. No, I was saying the fact that they like recently like had a match. Yeah, they have. But every time, well, one, the reason why they had to stop was because uh the guy came over with the braids, he had a really bad injury off like a year.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:18

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:19

But but either way, but like private party is a tag team, the name, the concept, everything about it is just fucking crisp. It's it's it's it's money. Why are you not pushing them hard? I don't know. That's just me. Private party, y'all dope as fuck. Uh especially because again, you see the street pop, it's being black history month. Let me take it to Black History Month real quick. You don't see a lot of black tag teams anymore. So you got Harlem Heat, and you got Street Profits, and you got fucking uh Private Party. I'm trying to think of another all black tag team. Um what, all black? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:57

I mean Oh, the Hit Ro. I don't wait.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:02

Hero was all black.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:03

Oh, I I'm thinking, I thought you were meant like active. Oh, well, I'm just saying general. I'm just saying in general. I mean, sure, Hero was a black tag team, but they they are uh they're no longer fully disbanded.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:14

Yeah, yeah. But I'm just saying black tag teams in general. Well, the Hurt Syndicate, the HERT business. Well, that's the faction. Black factions, that's the thing. Um But I mean well, I mean But solely as a tag team. Solely as a tag team.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:29

Well see, the only problem with that is just the fact that across the board, uh the tag team division is uh garbage dead. It's very dead, and AEW it's dead, and TNA it's dead, and WWE, it's it is uh it's it's more than dead. It's it's it's dead and decomposing. Like it's it's it's bad out there.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:53

It is crazy because they had the way better match that should have been at WrestleMania last year. And yeah, that was such a horrible choice. That was the dumbest shit ever.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:04

That was that was so bad.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:06

Have they not understand why they didn't just have them on the shows? My thing is, have you not learned from TLC with the Hardys, with Edge and Christian, and with the Dudleys that if you give motherfuckers a shine like that, they will make it the best damn match of the night. Name you can't name a bad TLC match. You can't.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:28

You you I don't think there's ever been like a a horrible TLC match. Even with the some TLC matches that have had questionable choices of people in them. Yes, but even with they still like they they still hit now. Sure, you could say which was the best, which was the not as good TLC match when you stack them all in line against each other. Yeah, I mean but like when you look at a TLC match, 90% of the time it's going to be, you know, the nicest match, the more decent match on the card. Yeah. Now I will say, you know, last year's money in the bank match, you know, definitely tried that that that thought process, but of course, that was more, but but what helped that was the fact that the whole pay-per-view was ass. So as opposed to just the TLC matches themselves. And even then, though this was probably this that that one was probably the two weakest TLC matches because they money, um well, money in a money in a bank is a TLC, but I know, but it just it is the name, the name is it's different, you know what I'm saying? Oh, you're trying to say that because it's a money in a bank saves it from being a bank because chairs are not always involved. Sure, okay. Well, I guess uh sure. Well sure, okay. Even though chairs are always fucking involved, like there's never out. I don't you'd have to pull her up and show it to me a TL uh a money in a bank match that did not have tables, ladders, and chairs in them. I'm gonna have to have story do some research for me. Find me, find what TLC, what what money in a bank match didn't have chairs in it?

SPEAKER_03 1:11:23

I'm gonna, I'm gonna, yeah, I'm gonna have Story do some research for me. He'll he'll do that happily. But uh any final notes that you would say you have on the differences in the monsters and the archetypes of the monsters, the giants, and the archetypes of wrestling.

Takeaways And Audience Questions

SPEAKER_02 1:11:40

Well, I mean, no, I don't really have anything to say outside of just saying what their differences were and whatnot. I know um one of the interesting issues in in wrestling right now is the fact that like, and I think it has just a lot to do with the fact of what we used to look at monsters and giants as it's like those two particular uh things have greatly changed and transcended themselves because monsters are not your stereotypical monsters anymore. Because usually in our eyes, you're thinking a monster is easily six foot four plus and are some de are in our and that what's make them the devastating force of nature. And I think when when Jacob Fatu showed up and he beat the monster among men, I believe that that was like the catalyst that uh helped change that idea and the perception of what you can see as a monster and what could be considered a monster.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:00

Yeah, because Jacob is totally a fucking monster.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:02

Totally Jacob is yeah, Jacob is full monster. Not that I mean, but it's like he doesn't have that height, he's not as big as your more your more stereotypical monsters would be.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:19

No, that nigga be taking flight though.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:21

But is but he is, but he has that monster mentality. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:28

I will say this was very educational for me. Um, you know, as a wrestling fan of the many years, you know, some things you just see and just say, okay, cook, cut, dry, black and white. You know, you know what it is. It's it's hey, faces the what the lighter shade, heel, the darker shade, anti-her tweeter, gray. So, like to know the archetypes and things of that nature, I feel like that was very good to put insights on. But I would love to hear you guys' opinion. Did you learn something today? Um, and also what are your thoughts about the differences between a monster and a heel? I'm not a monster, a monster and a giant. And the other question was what do you think is the greatest tag team finisher of all time? Please let us know in the comments. Again, as always, please choke slam the like button, please, because it helps us with the algorithm and gets more people to view us. And as well, tune stone the subscribe button. We see all 51 of you guys with us currently, so we appreciate y'all. And until next time, the ring is always sacred, the questions are always real, but the destruction is always guaranteed. And it's your host who likes to post the Mazaku. And it's your boy, Swaggs with Juba. Until next time, see y'all soon.