TSLP Season 4 Ep 6- The Power of Personality

🎙️ New Episode Alert: The Power of Personality with Eric Gee
Your personality is not just who you are,  it’s how you lead, communicate, and influence others every single day.

In this episode of the Transformation Station Leadership Podcast, I sit down with Eric Gee to explore how understanding personality can transform leadership effectiveness, team dynamics, and communication.

We dive into how leaders can leverage personality insights to build stronger relationships, reduce conflict, and create environments where people perform at their best.

If you want to lead people better, it starts with understanding how they think, communicate, and respond.

Learn more about Eric Gee:
Website: https://www.projectyoutopia.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/eric-gee-3565a79/

Leadership Principle:
Great leaders don’t expect everyone to think like them, they learn how to lead everyone effectively.

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Thanks for tuning in to Transformation Station! If this episode fired you up, smash that subscribe button, share it with someone who’s ready to level up, and tell me the moment that hit hardest. Your voice keeps this movement unstoppable. 

Until next time, stand tall, step bold, and own your transformation.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:19

Your personality does not just show up in how you show up, it also shapes how you lead, how you influence, how you connect, and how you create impact. Because when leaders like you and I, when we understand the power of our personality, we stop trying to fit into a mold and start stepping into who we were designed to be. Come on, let's talk about it. Let's get into it today. One mindset shift, one breakthrough, one transformed moment at a time. I'm your host, Adrian Benton. And today we're diving into a topic that affects every relationship, every conversation, and every leadership decision that you and I make. We're talking about the power of personality. And I can't wait for you to meet our guest today. But before you meet Eric, I want to remind you of a few things. Number one, listen, every Monday and Wednesday, we have these vital conversations. You don't want to miss one episode of these epic leadership conversations. So every Monday and Wednesday, I'm inviting you to join me, join us here at Transformation Station. I also want to remind you, listen, we have another event coming up in January. We had an amazing time where we had the Lead Her Shift Conference. Well, guess what? We're having our second conference in April, April 13 to 16. This one is Lead Her Shift Adjustment. And we're going to talk about, listen, if things aren't going well, you don't have to quit. You don't have to start over. All you need to do sometimes is make an adjustment. So registration opens March 13. Be sure to register early and don't come by yourself. Invite someone to come with you. Well, listen, I want to introduce you to Eric. Eric has administered personality-based life coaching for more than 20 years. He built a successful education company that used his personality typing method to better the lives of more than 20,000 students and parents and teachers. And as the creator of Utopia Project website and the Utopia 16 assessment, he has disseminated his method to over a half a million users since the website's creation in 2016. His coaching program has been used in companies, universities, and over 40 school districts. At this time, it is my honor to welcome to Transformation Station. Eric, welcome. We're so glad that you're with us today.

SPEAKER_01 3:21

How's it going? I'm glad to be here.

SPEAKER_00 3:24

It's going wonderful. So I've been looking forward to this conversation because I think when we talk about the power of personality, this is one of those classic evergreen, you know, people talk about personality, but we really, as leaders, don't get a chance to really talk about the power of it. So as we're stepping into this conversation, I know that we're going to talk about why we lead the way we lead, right? But I want to start off by asking you this question, Eric. Let's start with the foundation. When you talk about the power of personality, what do you what do you mean by that?

SPEAKER_01 4:01

You know, I in terms of personality, I like to break it down with our core values. I know that's a lot different than a lot of other, I guess you'd say personality typing methodologies. Because as you mentioned, this is a really evergreen topic. There's so many books about it, and there have been theories for thousands of years, you know. So I think the most common one now, I think, is MBTI, which is a good, like almost a hundred years old. I think it is a hundred years old. Um, so my focus is on values. It's not the things that we see externally, but the things that are internal, right? So a lot of them are like, what do people do? And that's you can figure out about people by watching what they do. And I'm like, yeah, observe observation is great. And looking at what people do is great, but the most important thing is why do they do it? Because I think the reason why we do things keys into that core value that we have. And when like about half the population kind of fits into one singular value, that is a good explanation of explaining why, you know, oftentimes we're other the other half of the population is kind of almost forced to be like that half, because you know, not other every other personality type fits into half the population, and it can get you can get there's a lot of social pressure there, um, especially when it comes to leading, as we're told, like this is the way you should lead, versus maybe you mentioned, we all have different ways to lead, and those different ways are based on our personality.

SPEAKER_00 5:12

Yeah, I love that. I love that because you know, as you're talking, I'm thinking like we all have a unique wiring, right? That shapes how we think and how we communicate and how we make decisions and how we build relationships and ultimately, like you said, how we lead. And you know, I I was thought about this quote when you were talking that says personality isn't about labels or letters on a chart, it's about understanding the natural strengths, tendencies, and patterns that influence every interaction that we have. And to our listeners and our viewers right now, we want to invite you to just start to reflect on the power of personality and flow with Eric and I as we move forward in this conversation. So, Eric, let me ask you this how does understanding our own personality, how does that actually influence the way that we lead, the way we communicate, and the way we connect with others?

SPEAKER_01 6:07

Well, you know, as I broke it down, if you break it down, you can break it down to different the value, right? So if you have, let's just say four major groups of people, I call them personality packs because in my book I mention or I use animal types. Everyone has their own individual animal type, right? Um, but there are four major personality packs, and within those four packs are four animals, four times four, of course, is 16. Um, so each personality pack has a different value, the one that makes up about half the population value, safety and security. So, how that happens to uh deal with leading is if your core value is keeping things safe and secure, then your leadership type is going to be based a lot on authority, certainty. Like this is the way that things are done. This is the way things have always been done, and this is the way we do things. You know, a lot of it's based on tradition, cultural, um, history, those types of things. And so that leadership type will be very common one, it's a traditional one that is taught, which is what they tell you to be confident, have a set structure, be responsible, have be organized, and tell people this is the way it goes and make sure you keep track of everybody, kind of like um George Washington. You know, there are other different leadership types. If there's another personality pack that prioritizes information, and they will lead in a different way. They'll often lead in terms of having the correct information. They might be deferential to people who know more than they do, which is not necessarily that common with the safety and security type. Oftentimes people who value safety and security are less likely to defer just not because they believe it, but because they need to be the authority. Um, where, you know, this the type that prioritize information, they just need to be the authority on the stuff that they know versus any kind of like, I am higher than you. Um, and so there's other different paths that value different things, but I know there's a long answer, but it really comes down to what our core value is, and that's kind of how we should lead. It doesn't mean that that's how we're taught we should lead, but I do think that's how we should lead.

SPEAKER_00 8:04

I love that. So then this leads right into the next question, right? How many personality types? How many personality types are there? And then how do we differ how how do you differentiate between them? Teach, teach us, please.

SPEAKER_01 8:20

Yeah, you know, I let me I'll use presidents since I mentioned George Washington. I feel like people should know their presidents to a certain extent um in terms of leadership types, right? So we have the George Washington type that's the personality pack. I call them gatherers because you'd imagine gathers in like, you know, a medieval village, right? So they're very strong, secure, they're steady, they're responsible. And when you think of George Washington, you think of someone who maybe was not necessarily the best battlefield commander, even though he was a general, um, but he was great at keeping his men alive, yeah. He was able to survive the harsh winters, and he's basically just outlasted the British. And that was kind of his thing. And you know, that's a strength because that leadership type tends to be very set in their ways, but also very set in treating everyone the same, including themselves. And what's Washington most for is being the first president, but also being the first person to give up power, right? Because he held himself to the rules. Um, and so then there's a second personality type or personality pack that values excitement, and they make about a third of the population, and they are kind of the crafty, shrewd, sly, really free-flowing, flexible personality type, right? So if you have like the Bert type is the gatherer, and you have the Ernie type, you know, Bert and Ernie from Sesame Street over here. We I call them hunters, and they're a lot more tactical. So I imagine uh we have a lot of presidents like that, like the Theodore Roosevelt, both Roosevelt's actually, Teddy Roosevelt, FDR. When you think of like the politico, not Winston Churchill was not a president, but he'd be that type as well, Bill Clinton. Very like smooth operators. Um, and then you have the shaman type, and their value system is self-knowledge. So they're much more into like figuring out who am I, who are the people around me, kind of what we're doing here, right? Um, unfortunately, we've only had one president who's been a shaman type, and that would be Barack Obama. I don't know why we only had one president. It would be ideal to have a few more. Now they only make up about 8% of the population. So once again, they're not there's not that many of them. Um, but that would be an example of the shaman type. They lead by understanding the people around them the um and then trying to figure out ways to help them grow. So obviously, Barack Obama was a community organizer, and that's kind of one of the major uh factors of community organizers, like understanding the people underneath them. Or I should say. And then the last personality pack, I call them Smiths, and they value information. I think I had mentioned that before. And so those would be like the well-read, knowledgeable, strategic leaders who kind of figure out the information. I think of like Hermione Granger in Harry Potter. Um, the presidents that we've had that have been um Smiths have been like Abraham Lincoln, Thomas Jefferson, people who are known for like being very well-read and very knowledgeable, maybe not necessarily the best speakers, even though Lincoln was a good speaker eventually, but he wasn't originally, and Jefferson was never really a great speaker at all. Um, so those are like the four distinct personality packs. Sorry, that was a long explanation, but oh, that's great.

SPEAKER_00 11:17

This is really great. We're getting a lot of wisdom and understanding here, right? And as you're as you're um talking, I know that our listeners, our listeners and viewers are kind of saying to themselves, I'm I'm in this pack, I'm in this one. Like they're starting to be able to self-identify, which I think is the whole point, right? Because when we have a good framework for who we are, then that helps us to communicate better. It's something about knowing who you are. You communicate with more assurance and confidence, right? You're able to use your vocabulary to give your team clear expectations. You're able to walk into conflict, not feeling pressured, but walk into conflict like, okay, let's focus on how do we resolve it, as opposed to how do I defend myself, right? As well as when you understand who you are, it helps you to be more empathetic to your team and to those who maybe are in a different pack, who have a different personality than you do, because you have that clarity of understanding your own personality. So to every leader, as you're listening to Eric and we're having this conversation and he's unpacking this, I want to invite you. You know, at the end, he's gonna talk to us about how we can get in touch with his resources and utilize them. I also want you to you to just really reach down deep and ask yourself some questions about your understanding of who you are and your own personality and how that impacts how you lead. So, Eric, let me ask you this question, right? Why do you think some common pop psychology ideas like extroversion or introversion or birth order or type A like the alphabeta, why do you think that that some of these are overblown or worse, why do you think that they were a myth?

SPEAKER_01 13:02

You know, as I mentioned before, gatherers, that personality pack makes about half the population. So the way that their personalities react to things, it tends to be pushed on a lot of people and kind of tends to be like assumed to be correct, right? Because you see it quite often. So something like introversion, extroversion, you know, I've been talking about personality typing for decades, and everyone always complains, or anyone who complains tends to their major complaint tends to be, well, extroversion, introversion is dumb, because sometimes in this situation I'm extroverted, but in this situation, I'm introverted. And I agree, like I started to understand that you know it's based on context. And what is that context? That context is the things that we value. So if there's something that we value more, we probably are going to be more outgoing, we're gonna be a little bit more aggressive. Back to the, you know, the type A, right? Type A also says, oh, these people are aggressive, these people are not. It's like, well, that's like saying, like, Superman as a character, he's not aggressive, and yet if you mess with people he loves, he is extremely aggressive. So, like, how you can't say he what do you think he's a beta? That seems like an that stuff is so superficial and very like uh basic, for lack of a better word. Um, so I think when it comes down to it comes down to our value system, if we value something, we're probably gonna be more aggressive with it, we're gonna be more outgoing with it. If we if it's not one of our core values and we really don't care, then we'll probably just be like, okay, whatever. I don't, I don't care. It's sports, I don't watch sports, you know, or whatever that thing is. And so I think those kind of um pop culture stuff, like especially birth order, tends to focus on what people see. But as I mentioned before, I'm always about why, what is the reason, what's inside, why, what's the reason why we're doing the things that you see me doing, you know, because everybody can be a writer. There's not one type that writes, there's not one type that plays sports, there's not one type that does this. But I will say that be based on your personality type, it's probably gonna dictate why you do that. Because I think we all write, play sports, or do the things we do for different reasons.

SPEAKER_00 14:51

I love that. So I'm gonna just just push this just a little bit more and ask you this question, right? So let's let's look at in terms of challenge and help, right? So, how can these pop right psychology? How can the how how can they hinder a leader and how can they help a leader?

SPEAKER_01 15:14

Oh, help is help is a hard one because then you're gonna you're just asking me to support something that I feel is basic. Let's go to Hindu first, because that's an easy one. You know, like um, especially let's just do specifically leadership, the alpha beta thing. I think when people are told you need to be this extremely confident, aggressive alpha type if you're gonna be a leader. I think that's not how every personality type leads. I I mentioned Superman again, obviously he's a fictional character, but you know, there are tons of people in the world who have a very similar personality type than him. They're the strong, silent type. They might not necessarily be super aggressive, they're very humble, they're deferential. Um, but that doesn't mean you can't lead. And I think the problem is if you have this like, we got to be alpha and do this, you're basically not tapping in to what your best, the best version of yourself as a leader is. Some people are more likely, as I mentioned before, shamans like A Barack Obama, they tend to lead by, let's say they ask their group, like, okay, what do you think? What do you think? What do you think? What do you think? And they hear every single person in their community first, and then they kind of gather their thoughts and then kind of integrate those opinions of their followers with their own, versus another leadership type, which we're often taught to be alpha, is like, no, this is a specific thing, this is what you do, and you need to tell people to do it that way. And I'm once again, that's not necessarily bad either, if it fits your personality type, but it only fits like, you know, 15% of the population. So I think it's important to, you're never going to reach your full potential as a leader if you're not really keying into the leadership style that your personality type specializes in.

SPEAKER_00 17:15

And is there, I know this is opposite than what you believe, but is there any way that the models could possibly help? Like let's say we're talking to the leader that has done one, you know, should they just throw it all the way out, but or is there anything that they can take from it?

SPEAKER_01 17:30

Well, I will say it would probably help for gatherers because once again, that all those models tend to be focused on gatherers because they make up half the population. So in that way, it does work for them. So I would say gatherers in general grow up believing that the world has been not believing that the rural's been made for them, but kind of think that way because they're like, oh wow, look, my value system, it seems like that's what I'm being told to do. Like I go to school, they tell me to be responsible, make sure that I bring my homework, have an organizer, and all these structured things. Once again, structure does not work for everybody, but it's what we're told that we should be or how we should be like in school, especially in elementary school, right? So I do think that knowing those things and having knowledge of like what it means to be extroverted and being outgoing and being reserved is good for gatherers because once again, they make it it does work for them and they make about half the population. I'm always reminding people though that there are the other half of the population that has a lot of different personality packs in it, and we don't want to forget about them too, because you see them in your everyday life. And if you're a gatherer, those are the people that you're like, geez, those people are different than me. They should be, they should be more like me, you know. So appreciate their differences.

SPEAKER_00 18:36

So let me ask you this because I know that there are listens and viewers that have this question. Can someone's personality type change?

SPEAKER_01 18:45

You know, I love that question, and I always answer it the same way. If I'm redundant, I'm redundant, but I don't believe that people can change. I believe that we grow and I think we grow into either better versions of ourselves or we can grow into worse versions of ourselves, right? Which is why it's so important to understand your personality because that's the first step into figuring out how to work on your weaknesses and become a better version of yourself. So I think if you're changing, if you see someone, oh, that person's totally changed, it's probably either your impression of them and your perception of them has changed, you've learned more about them, or they themselves have found out more about themselves and have essentially they thought they were something else, but really they became this. And I get that a lot in my coaching, where people are like told by their parents, oh, this is how you should be, and they're like, Oh, well, this is who I am. And then I tell them, No, that's actually not who you are based on how what I'm seeing and how you're answering things. So let's work on changing to be this type because it's gonna be help you become the best version of yourself.

SPEAKER_00 19:44

I love that. There's a quote that I found that I absolutely love that says, personality isn't a prison, it's a starting point. Who you become is shaped by the choices you make. And you know, I find that in life, life ebbs and flows, right? And so um I want to invite all our leaders to just sit with this, right? Your personality is not a prison. What does it mean? What does that mean to you? It's a starting point. How does that starting point of who you are, how does that then impact those that you lead, right? So let me ask you this question: how can understanding your own personality become a leadership advantage, especially in decision making, in managing stress, or in building teams?

SPEAKER_01 20:33

I think I always like to say your personality type won't dictate your strengths, but it will dictate your tendencies, right? And if you have a tendency, certain tendency, and you have a certain thing that you like to do, you're gonna practice it and do it more. And the more you do it, the better you'll get at it. So that's it, in a sense, it does will become a strength, but it means you have to work on it. And that's like why you have to the first step is what are you? Figure out what you really are, because then you can get into that sweet spot of okay, this is what I I feel comfortable with, and then start doing that and practicing that. And so each leadership or each personality pack has a different leadership style, as I had mentioned. One tends to be more logistical, they focus on support, they focus on keeping everything together, equipment, another is more tactical, they focus on like moves at the like in the moment, you know, um, one might be more strategic and they focus on moves in the future. And I think those two things are different. And understanding those things and understanding there are strengths and weaknesses to your leadership style is good because first you should work on your own leadership style and strengthen that. And then once you do that, then you'll know, oh, you know, but there are weaknesses to that. Strategy is great, but it's not particularly good for short-term results. So maybe I should borrow some of the tactical stuff, not become that, but borrow some of that stuff, and vice versa, right? Like tactical stuff is great in the moment, but what if you're hurting yourself in the future? Right? It's like that famous marshmallow test where they have the kids and they put a marshmallow in front of them and said, if you don't eat it, then we're gonna get more later on. The tactical people are just like, screw later on, I'm gonna eat it now because I don't know what's gonna happen later on. I might die today, you know. I mean, they're not thinking that, but kind of you need it, right? And then of course the stranger just around, I mean, I can get more if I just wait. Okay, I'm gonna wait. And they just sit there and wait, you know, upsides and downsides to those things, but I think the most important thing is figure out who you are because that's the best way for you to figure out what you um for you to practice and work on it.

SPEAKER_00 22:22

I love it. I love it. Here is another quote that flows right along with what you're saying. Understanding your personality is not about labeling yourself, it's about leading from a place of clarity, not confusion. And that's exactly what Eric has been describing. So, so as we turn the corner on this amazing uh personality conversation, right? I want to ask you this question Great leaders, like all those who are here in this community, we Learn to flex our approach to connect with different people. But how can you how can we adapt our communication or leadership style without feeling fake or like we're losing our authenticity?

SPEAKER_01 23:04

I think if you just settle on the idea that your your whole point is to understand the people you're leading to reach your objective, you know, it doesn't mean that that's your goal to understand them completely because that's a different value, right? That would be the value of a shaman. So shaman would be like, that's great, that's exactly what I do. But everyone else will be like, well, no, like that's not my our goal is to keep things safe or to like you know maneuver in the best way possible. So really it's understanding the people that you're leading to reach the objective the best way you can. I think that's like every lead, that's what every leader I think has in common. And understanding the people is important because that will help you reach your objective faster. That's like that is not just one type, that that will help everybody. Um, there's a story I like to use. Like I used, you know, my education company, I worked with a lot of, obviously, I taught a lot of teachers, uh, taught a lot of students. And one thing I would tell my teachers, mainly teachers are gatherers, right? Because gatherers focus once again on safety and security. And that's what it especially elementary school teachers, that's what they do. They create this safe space for kids, right? But not every student is a gatherer. If you have a hunter student, then they're gonna be a lot more about what I can get in this moment. And I always like to tell, or I always like to tell my teachers, like their mentality, the hunter mentality is if you tell them, if you take that cookie in the jar, I'm gonna slap you. Let's say you're a parent, a teacher's not gonna do that. But let's say a parent says to their kid, if you take that cookie out of the jar, I'm gonna slap you. The gatherer's parent is not thinking, oh, like, oh, maybe they're like figure out that you know the cookie is not worth it. The gather parent's saying, no, I'm telling you that because you need to respect me as a parent. I do not want you to do that. But a hunter doesn't think that way. They're thinking, hmm, maybe the cookie is worth the slap. Let me think about that. How hard are you gonna slap me? You know, how good is this cookie going to be? You know, that's what they're measuring, right? Pain versus pleasure. And I think that's important for everyone to understand that people think we think differently than each other, right? And that's a totally different mentality. And you have to understand that because that mentality will help the hunter when they grow older, um, when they become leaders themselves, right? And if you have a hunter that you're leading, just know that they might not care about your authority, they might not care that you're the boss. Now, they might care that since you are the boss, you could fire them and they could lose their job and they don't want that, but overall, they don't care about the idea of authority, they just see what you can give them and they will act reciprocally. And if it's worth it, then they will do it. But the nice thing is if it's worth it, they'll run through a wall for you.

SPEAKER_00 25:27

So that's great, fantastic. So, all right, talk to us. If you could give one piece of advice to someone, to a leader that that wants to lead more effectively by understanding themselves and others better, what would that piece of advice be?

unknown 25:48

Oof.

SPEAKER_01 25:48

Aside from a shameless plug for my book, buy my book so you can understand how to type people, but really, that is the thing I would tell. Like, try to figure out what the personality type is of every single person that's following you and that you're leading. And I know that sounds like a lot of work for some people and for other types of like, I do that already, or that sounds so fun. But really, it should be a natural thing. It shouldn't be something like homework, you know, it's really just figuring out the people around you. Go to the bar after work one day and just start talking to people and ask them, oh, like what did you do? What do you enjoy doing on in your free time? Like something like that where you're really connecting with the people because I guarantee you that it'll help. You understand them better, and if it helps you understand them better, some people might not care about understanding the people better, but I guarantee you it helped your productivity as well. And I think as leaders, we should all care about that, how we reach our objectives.

SPEAKER_00 26:34

I love it. All right, Transformation Station, you have had this masterclass on the power of personality, and uh you just got some wonderful encouragement and advice. So, Eric, I know that there are leaders that want to tap into your resources, learn more about your book, engage with you. What's the best way to be able to do so?

SPEAKER_01 26:54

You know, you can take um a test on I have two websites, and I know that's really weird, but it's just that one website is meant for one thing and one website's meant for another thing. You can visit, um, there should be a link, uh, utopiaproject.com, and that'll take you to the website uh to the internet, the test that where you can take and figure out what animal personality type you are. Um, there's also my website for my life coaching, and that's at projectutopia.com. And if you're interested in purchasing my book, you know, you can find it anywhere you buy books. If you want to give Jeff Bezos your money, you can find it on Amazon, or you can order it from your local bookbox, big box bookstore, or go to your local um, you know, indie bookstore and order it from them. And my book's called The Power of Personality. And uh, you can also, yeah, that's the best way to connect with me.

SPEAKER_00 27:36

Yeah, absolutely. All right, so listen, Transformation Station, we've had a wonderful conversation with Eric. I'm going to invite you, as we always do, to support our guests. You see the links that have been displayed here on the screen, but it's also in the description box. Both of them are. We want to invite you to go take the assessment, right? Because we know that the community that learns together, grows together. I also want to invite you to reach out to Eric. Let him know that you saw, let him know that you heard this episode, share with him what has resonated with you and ask him questions so that you can continue to learn and grow. Get that book. Readers are leaders, leaders are readers. Eric, thank you so much for joining us today. It has been absolutely wonderful having you here with us for Transformation Station.

SPEAKER_01 28:20

I had a great time. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_00 28:22

Absolutely. What an energizing and eye-opening conversation with Eric. He reminded us that personality isn't a limitation, it's a leadership advantage when you understand how to use it. Now, I want to hear from you. What part of your personality do you want to lean into more as a leader? Share your reflections in the comments. You might inspire someone today. And if this episode gave you new insights or a fresh perspective, be sure to subscribe to Transformation Station Leadership Podcast. Don't be selfish, share this episode with a colleague or a friend, and make sure you follow and subscribe on YouTube, Facebook, LinkedIn, Apple Podcasts, everywhere. And please leave a review because that helps us to reach and transform more leaders. So until next time, stay aware, stay aligned, and keep on leading from the fullness of who you are.