TSLP Season 4 Ep. 20- Leading at the Speed of Threat

In this episode, I’m joined by Bob Fabien “BZ” Zinga,  former Chief Information Security Officer (CISO) at Santa Clara University, U.S. Navy Reserve Information Warfare Commander, cybersecurity executive, and transformational leader with decades of experience leading in high-pressure environments.

As technology evolves, AI expands, and organizations face increasing uncertainty, leaders must learn how to lead with clarity, resilience, adaptability, and strategic vision.

In this conversation, we discuss:
🔹 Leadership under pressure
🔹 Cybersecurity and AI
🔹 Emotional intelligence in leadership
🔹 Building resilient teams
🔹 Governance, innovation, and trust
🔹 Preparing leaders for the future

Learn more about Bob:
LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/bobfabienzinga/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/LeadershipandSuccesswithCoachBZ
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@leadershipandsuccesspodcast

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Until next time, stand tall, step bold, and own your transformation.

Transcript

0:03

In today's world, threats are moving faster than ever. Technology is evolving. AI is reshaping industries. And leaders like you and I, we are being asked to make high-stakes decisions in environments that are filled with uncertainty and pressure and constant change. But we know that strong leadership is not just about responding to threats, it's about building resilient teams, creating trust, and communicating clearly. Come on, let's go ahead and get this conversation started. I'm your host, Adrian Benton. And today we're joined by an extraordinary guest. We're talking to BZ. Now, that BZ is a nickname. Okay, it's short, but you'll learn a little bit more about him soon. We're talking about leading at the speed of threat. If you have enjoyed previous episodes, I know that you're going to enjoy today's episode. And as a matter of fact, before I introduce you to our outstounding, outstanding guest, I want to do a few things. Number one, it is time for us to celebrate. What are we celebrating? I can't wait to share with you. We're celebrating the fact that because of you, because of you being such an amazing community, guess what? We just hit 6,000 downloads. Yes. Give yourselves a round of applause. I want to thank you so much for continuing to engage with Transformation Station Leadership Podcast. But guess what? We're not done. We are in season four right now. So what this means is if you have missed even one episode of season one or season two or season three, I need you to go back. I need you to go back and watch the replays and then do not keep this goodness to yourself. No, it is time for you to share Transformation Station Leadership Podcast with at least two other leaders in your network and then invite them to share Transformation Station with others as well. I also want to remind you that we are a community of learners. And so on June 21st, Lead Her Shift Community is having our next webinar. We have Dr. Melanie Gray, who is a confidence coach. She is going to join us on June 21st. You can register now for the podcast. All you have to do is go to mobilizingwithimpact.com. That's right. Mobilizingwithimpact.com and register today. And again, don't come by yourself, but please be sure to bring other leaders with you. And, you know, we truly believe that when we pray together, we see miracles happen together. So this Sunday, June 7th, we are meeting for the next monthly mobilizing prayer circle. This is a time where we come together, and as a community, we share prayer requests, we share testimonies, we look at a short devotional, and then we pray and we go. About 30 minutes at length, but I'm telling you, the previous mobilizing prayer circles, we do it once a month, have been extremely powerful. Leaders, don't walk this journey by yourself. Come with us this Sunday. You see the times there on the screen. Again, if you go to mobilizingwithimpact.com, you will be able to get the Zoom link so that you can join us on Sunday, June 7th, so that we can pray together and continue to grow together. Well, listen, it is time for me to share with you about our amazing, extraordinary, fantastic guest today. We're talking about Bob. Bob Fabian BZ is the former Chief Information Security Officer at Santa Clara University and an information warfare commander in the U.S. Navy Reserve who is currently serving as the commanding officer, CEO equivalent, of a 72-member unit supporting the dual-headed Commander of Naval Network Warfare Command and Commander Task Force CTF 1010. Now listen, he has more than 28 years of certified information technology experience with expertise in leadership, secure enterprise, and information technology business operations. It is my honor to welcome to Transformation Station Leadership Podcast. Commander Zinger BZ, welcome to Transformation Station. Thank you so much, uh, Commander Benzama. It's really a great privilege and honor to be here. Thank you. Absolutely. Well, listen, I'm thrilled to have you. Uh several months ago, for those who are listening and watching, I had the honor of being a guest. And uh BZ will tell us a little bit more about his podcast a little bit later on, but I had an opportunity to be a guest. And so again, it is my honor to host you here today. So I want to start off, you know, as I was preparing for our conversation today, I was thinking about the fact that this is a conversation that really is important. Irregardless of what category of leadership, area of leadership, or corporation or organization, we're talking about resilience, we're talking about constant, we're talking about how to move forward with the mission or industry no matter what. Now, you have led both military and corporate cybersecurity teams in high pressure environments. Many of our leaders today are in high pressure environments. So I want to start off with this question: What leadership principles do you find have remained constant regardless of the mission or regardless of the industry? Yeah, that is a great question. And by the way, yes, I used to be the commanding officer for the Global Network Operation Security Center in uh Suffolk, Virginia. Now I am the chief staff officer for Third Fleet in San Diego. But but but yes, it's it's been a uh challenge throughout my career. I've been in the Navy for 21 years now. Uh so uh I think I've spent about eight, nine years on active duty, and the the rest are in the um uh reserve force. So when you are a reservist, usually the commitment is at least uh one weekend, a month, and two weeks out of the year. So that allows you to have a full-time job as a civilian. So really trying to do uh cybersecurity for both the navy and the industry can be kind of challenging, but but I feel like it kind of helps each other though. Things that I learned as an information warfare officer, a lot of those I can apply as a uh civilian and things that I learned in the industry, I can definitely add value as an information warfare commander in the Navy as as well. But whether I am commanding sailors in the Navy or leading security teams in Silicon Valley, I discovered that leadership principles really do not change, right? Most principles I believe are universal. The only thing that changes is the environment. So I believe uh three principles that have really guided me and that remain universal. Number one, I think, is mission clarity. As you know by TV, we are taught mission first, but people always, right? So they perform best when they understand why their work matters. Whether defending security network or protecting customer data, leaders must communicate purpose, first and foremost. Number two, I think, is trust before technology. Uh, one of my uh mentor, General Bigel, taught me that you know, rank is rented, but trust is earned. So trust before technology. Technology can accelerate performance, but trust is what enables that performance. Teams move faster when trust is high and slower when trust is low. And it's something you definitely need to earn from your teammates. So I remember the last one would be, you know, I mentioned earlier, uh, people first, mission always, mission first, people always. But the the thing is you have to take care of the mission because uh that is why you exist, but you always, always have to take care of the people. The mission doesn't matter, but the mission is accomplished through the people, right? When I become a commanding officer, as you know, it's it's a really great, great uh privilege, the highest privilege of my career because less than two percent of us end up becoming commanding officers. So I reached out to all of my uh uh uh mentors, and one of them told me, if you just take care of your people, your people really don't take care of the mission, right? So investing in people is not separate from mission success, it is mission success. Uh, General Carlin Powell, no, one of my uh greatest uh mentors often said that leadership is solving problems, and I would add that leadership is solving problems through people. That really needs to be the focus. I need you to go back and say something one more time. You said uh oh, it was something was rented. What did you say? Yes, yes, uh, rank is rented, rank is rented trust, trust is earned. Yeah, I love that you are not you're not gonna be a commander or commanding officer forever. It's a very specific time. You're gonna get fired, you're gonna retire, you're gonna get an another job. But the trust that you earn from your folks, you absolutely have to earn it. I love that. Transformation station leaders, leaders, listen, you're listening, you're watching. I need you to right now to go ahead and stop and reflect on what has already been shared with us. What is resonating with you? I'm inviting you to go ahead and put it in the comment sections. BZ, we are live today. We will definitely respond back. We want to hear from you. And if you have any questions, um, if there's anything that resonates with you, please definitely put it in the chat, share it with us. I'm already walking away with rank is rented. Uh, listen, I love it. I'm gonna be sharing that with my team as well. And we want to share so comment if if I may we're really quick, since we we're talking about servant leadership. I I love this book, um Gates of Fire by Stephen Press Pressfield. Uh, in this book, I think it gives the best definition of servant leadership I have ever read anywhere. It's just a a couple of sentences. If if I can read this really, really quick. It says, I will tell his majesty what a king is. A king does not abide within his tent while his men bleed and die upon the field. A king does not dine while his men go hungry, nor sleep when they stand at watch upon the wall. A king does not commend this man's loyalty for fear nor purchase it with gold. He earns their love by the sweat of his own back and the pains he endures for their sake. That is how you earn trust. He says, That which comprises the harshest burden, a king lives first and sets down last. A king does not require service of those elites, but provides it to them. He serves them, not they him. And I believe Jesus is definitely the ultimate servant uh leader in the Bible. But really, that's what servant leadership is all about. It's not you being the boss, but it's you actually serving the people who you have the great privilege um being over. I love this. I love this. Already you are giving us a masterclass right here. This is fantastic. So let me ask you this question, right? Cybersecurity is often viewed as highly technical, but leadership is deeply human. So, so how does emotional intelligence and communication impact effective cyber or just impact effective leadership? Yeah, I think that is key. Uh, as we said in the introduction, uh I live in Silicon Valley, and I think our IQs of the chat here, we really have a lot of very smart people. However, when it comes to emotional intelligence, I think we have so much to uh make up for. So I think cybersecurity is fundamentally a uh human profession, disguised as a technical profession. Let me explain. I think the best leaders I have worked with were not necessarily the most technical, but they were the most effective communicators. Emotional intelligence allows leaders to build trust during uncertainty. Here's that uh no word again, trust, manage stress during crisis, resolve conflict between teams, influence executive and board, and develop future leaders. So, in a cyber incident, for example, no, technical expertise may identify the problem, but communication will determine whether the organization responds effectively or not. So people don't follow expertise alone. Technical expertise is important, however, people follow leaders who make them feel understood, valued, and confident. I believe it was Oprah I I heard say, and I think she learned it from her um mentor, Maya Angelou. People will forget everything you tell them, but they will never ever forget the way you make them feel. That's emotional intelligence, that's leadership. As Dr. John C. Maxwell, my primary uh mentor, has taught me. People don't care how much you know until they know how much you care. How much you care. Woo! I love that. And you know, a best practice that I was thinking about as you were talking says practice translating technical information into language that builds understanding and action instead of fear. And leaders, we invite you to take this to a practical level and think about how your leadership influence can increase when communication creates confidence and connection between you and your team, and you foster a culture where you invite the team to have confidence and connection in communication with one another. So let me ask you this question, right? You've worked at the intersection of AI and cybersecurity and governance and enterprise operations. Okay, so what do leaders need to understand right now as it pertains to the opportunities and the the risks that emerge from AI? Yeah, it looks like we've been talking about AI non-stop since what, 2023 also, when it came uh around pretty much every security conference I go to. I speak to about 12 to 15 conferences if every year, AI has been the number one, number two, and number three subject. Well, AI represents one of the greatest opportunities, but also one of the greatest risks, I believe, uh leaders will encounter in their career. I I think no, I used to say we are leading in the information age, but really we are living in the edge of artificial intelligence. So the opportunity is quite enormous, right? Faster decision making, increased productivity, better threat detection, enhanced customer experiences, and greater operational efficiency. However, however, AI also introduces new risk. As a matter of fact, uh, in about a couple of weeks, I'm gonna be leading a one-hour seminar with uh EC Council on managing AI risk, which is open to anyone. You can find that on my LinkedIn page. But uh, some of the uh new risk introduced by AI include no data leakage, model manipulation, deep fake, and misinformation, especially on the deepfake. Three, four years ago, you could see a deep fake with just an image or a video. You could tell this is AI, it's not real. No, usually people had like six fingers, and it was very, very actually. If you just Google uh Will Smith and Spaghetti, you are going to see the videos we used to create three, four years ago, and you look at the one they just created in December 2025. You won't be able to tell the difference. It's like it's so real, so real that even the uh meta chief uh AI architect we should know better. He looked at the video, I think it was in uh Minneapolis about ice. He thought it was a real video, but it was all propaganda, it was all deep fake, all made back with AI. So even the expert can get confused unless we don't we use uh specialized uh uh tools to um be able to know you and I being in the military, we we know that part of you know uh military operation this day, we always use uh propaganda or military this deception and things, but really using social media and AI, you can make the enemy believe all kinds of things that are absolutely not true, but it's going to appear real to the enemy and to the masses, no, talking about bias, ethical concern, and uh autonomous decision making without oversight. So I think the biggest mistake organization can make is really treating AI as purely a technology initiative. I believe that uh AI is actually a leadership challenge. Leaders must establish governance, accountability, transparency, and human oversight, especially in the military, right? We do not want AI to be making the decision and then pushing the button to execution and maybe by mistake you know, killing 200 girls in iron. We do not want that, right? We want human oversight, we want to know exactly what is going to happen and make sure there are no mistakes. So before AI scales uh across the organization, we definitely absolutely need, and I insist, to have human uh oversight with a genetic AI today. Some companies really want uh AI to not only uh do the pre-planning and the analysis but also execute um upon the analysis. That's why it was just last last year, right? Google and AI, um, meta, uh Facebook, they both got rid of a lot of their developers because they felt like AI could uh develop codes for them. Big, big mistake. Now they're trying to hire all of those people back because especially for Google, the AI they use uh accidentally deleted an entire hard drive with uh their code in it. Now the AI came back and says, I am sorry, but that didn't bring back the code. So they lost, right? Right. If there was a human oversight, then a human being uh could have pre prevented that. So I guess my philosophy really is simple. Move fast with AI, and I think you kind of have to, you cannot keep your head in the sand and pretend AI isn't here, but God run faster. Human judgment must remain in the loop. Yeah, so you know, if if I hear you correctly, I think what you what I'm picking up from this is that as leaders, we cannot afford to be passive observers, right? We have to become informed decision makers who understand risk management, strategic implementation, governance that ask questions that don't just say, hey, you know, put this thing in and then let it just run, run with it, right? Um, you know, they're saying that one of the challenges that, and it's not really with AI, it's how people are using it in terms of their leaning on it so much that they're allowing AI to change the culture, to tell them, like to tell them what needs to be done and how to do it and what they should be thinking. And instead of questioning AI or using it as like an amplifier, they make it become the foundation. And that is a huge, huge challenge. And so, you know, leaders, we want to invite you to remember that innovation without accountability creates instability. Yes, you must allow there to be accountability when it has to remain as you are implementing and using AI to scale things, right? So absolutely, human need to lead and AI needs to assist. That's the only way this can work, yes. Absolutely. So, so then let's, you know, we're going back to the human part of it of this, right? So, so you know, how do you build resilient teams? How do we build resilient teams that can perform under constant pressure, uncertainty, and evolving threat? Well, I think that resilience does not happen during a crisis, it is built before the crisis. Another thing that uh Oprah has taught me was no success. She used to say is when preparation meets opportunity. When the opportunity is already here, it's too late to prepare. Right. So I kind of focus on five areas. Number one, psychological safety. People must feel safe reporting mistakes, risk, and concern. Number one, number two, training under stress. No, as you know, in the Navy, in the US military, we kind of train like we fight, we fight like we train. And part of the reason why we do that is so that when you are in the real environment, it's really not going to be the first time you are in such an environment, you already have muscle memory of uh what to do under stress. I think that's part of the reason why our military is such a great, um, powerful force, right? Teams should practice difficult scenarios before they face them in real life. Again, that's why in the military we have so many exercises. We go through it over and over again, uh until we pretty much almost become um perfect and know exactly what to do and when. And number three would be a mission ownership. Every team member must understand how their work contributes to the success of the entire um organization. And then I think continuous learning is also key. Cybersecurity changes every day, so learning cannot be optional. No, I am gonna be a student for the rest of my life. That's already said. Because even with AI, it keeps changing and evolving. You know, every three to six months, it is like you just have to keep up with it. So, and then the last one would be leadership visibility. I think people want to know their leadership. Are present when conditions become difficult, right? Yes. As you know, in the Navy we say you do not rise to the occasion, but you always fall back to the level of your training. So the same principle I believe applies in cybersecurity. Listen, you are just like dropping these gems. You do not rise to the level of your you do not rise to the level. Say it again. Uh you do not rise to the occasion, but you fall back to the level of your training. I'm gonna have to go back on the replay and write these things down because these are gems. I'm like, I need to say that to my team. But you know what? They they absolutely are true. I have found um as a leader that when I look at my teams that I've had an opportunity to lead and be a part of, that resilience grew. Like you said, not in the moment of crisis, it it grew before, but it really grew when the team understood the mission, when everybody understood what role they played, how they fit, and when they believed that leadership genuinely cared about not just the check in the box, but about their development and their well-being. And leaders, this is really critical. You know, for some of you, it looks like instead of rushing by your people every day, stop and ask them how they're doing, like, like and really listen. Sometimes ask them about the job that they're doing, not just to have that check in the box like they know what you told them to do, but to also see the level of enjoyment, the level of dissatisfaction or frustration. Like as a leader, you need to learn these things. And when, you know, I found B Z that when my team believes that they are seen and that I hear them, oh my goodness. Like they will stay late and work without me even asking, they will they say they will see something and they will jump in as opposed to just sitting back and waiting for let me see if he says anything, or let me see if somebody else is gonna do it. No, no, but because people feel valued, they understand what we're working towards, and even if this is not their favorite thing, or they don't really care to do, like they will stop and do it. And that's how, like you said, we build resilience, right? That bounce back factor that I'm not gonna quit, I'm not going anywhere, I'm gonna see this true filter, this factor. I don't know. That is that is so true because you remind me of what uh general comments say, right? Because if you use the science of management, potentially you can get people to go up to 100 percent of their uh ability. Although there was a uh other business review article that says most people when they go to work, they they use only about 25-30 percent of their potential of what they can actually do. So, with management, maybe in theory, you can get them to 100. But General Colin Powell says with leadership, you can get them to 110, 120 percent. So it is uh they go above and beyond because they believe, they feel like they are cared for and they believe in the in the mission, and they can go above and beyond what any theory book can say or do. That is leadership. That's why in the military we are willing to go to war, willing to go to combat zone, follow a leader, even to hell, if we have to, because we know they've got our back. And uh, that is something uh once you see it happen, it is really, really beautiful to see. It is, it is, and so leaders, we want to give you another best practice. Sometimes for some of us, it's gonna look like taking the time to conduct a regular after-action review that focuses on the growth of the team, that focuses on how we continue to learn as a team and focuses on improvement rather than an after-action review that focuses on who didn't do something right. Leaders, just think about it for a moment before we rush on. I want you to just think. I'm also inviting you, whether you're watching live or you're watching on the replay, to go ahead and in the comment section share with us what is resonating with you, what's coming to mind. How have you led a resilient team, or what have you noticed when you were a part of a team that was functioning in a resilient manner? So, BZ, I want to ask you this question. You've served on advisory councils, you've served on boards, you've served on executive leadership teams. So, what separates leaders who simply manage systems from leaders who create transformational impact? Yes, uh, the difference between a manager and the leader. So I think managers do maintain systems, and we do need managers, right? Because sometimes I think the mistake we make is we want everybody to be a leader. Well, some people need to be good managers, and we do need them. But leaders they do transform people, so I think that's where the difference is. Transformational leaders do three things exceptionally well. Number one, they create a vision, people need to understand where they are going. And then uh, number two, they develop others. Success is measured by how many leaders you create, not followers you collect. And number three, they drive change, they challenge assumption and help organizations adapt before disruption forces them to. I often tell aspiring leaders, right? A manager asks, How do we do this better? But the transformational leader asks, What should we become? Those are different conversations. And one leader that comes to mind is Martin Luther King Jr., right? He was a civil right leader, but I think he really was more than that. It created that mission, even the speech, I have a dream. He went all around the world, and people could see that in the future. This is not where we are, but this is where we are going. Even before he died, he says, I may not go there with you, but I've been to the mountaintop. It's so it creates that vision that is compelling. It forces you to see, yes, there is a world where this is possible, and then developing a lot of leaders around him, and then really trying to drive that change, which ultimately combined with the election of Barack Obama as our first African-American president. But that's that's what I am talking about being a transformational leader, creating a vision, developing other leaders, and driving change. Driving change. Okay, so leaders, you're listening, you're watching. I need you to write these three pivotal key points here. I need you to write them down, right? We put them in the chat, creating a vision. How are you creating a vision for your team, for your team? Developing others. How are you developing others and driving change, right? And leaders, as a leader, you don't have to bear the whole responsibility of doing it, right? You have team members. This is where you delegate, but you create a culture where these three can exist. And man, I'm telling you, BZ and I are telling you, what you will end up doing is creating a leadership legacy. And leadership legacy is not created because you said, I'm the leader, remember me. No, leadership legacy is measured by the leaders you develop. You know, BZ, I had I had a mentor who said to me, Okay, a couple things. Number one, how do you know you're leading well when you don't have to be there and the mission, the operation still moves on? When you have and you have mentored, and now you have those that can step in and they can do it. Yes, even if you have somebody in your team that does it better than you, all right? But that's how you know and it still goes forward. So, leaders, who are you developing? Who that is super powerful? I had I went to I was in a leadership session the other day, and they said everybody with whatever wherever you work, you should be sewing into somebody else so that when you leave, that person can step right in, like they they can they can be the you to a to a better level. Yeah. So who are you developing on your team? How are your team? How are you developing your people? That is how your leadership legacy will remain. That is so powerful. I think we are almost out of time, but but I'm I must say we must have had the same mentors because I was a junior officer when uh Captain Joel Rothschild told me yes, you are a leader when you can step away and then you come back, everything worked exactly the way it was supposed to, right? The entire enterprise doesn't uh go down in shambles. That makes you a leader, but also the difference between a leader and an influencer. If you just have a bunch of people following you, well, maybe you are an influencer, but if you are a leader, you actually develop other leaders. That's really the legacy of leadership. Mercy. If you are an influencer, you may have people that follow you. Many times they don't follow you for a long period of time. Right, right. But people hang around when they feel like they're being transformed, when they're getting something out of it that develops them, that causes them to grow, to shift, to change. So, leaders, we got some homework to do. We have some homework. And I really believe that's the difference, right, between success and significance. You know, for most of us, nothing wrong with it. When you first start in life, you have to think about yourself, not making money, being successful, taking care of your family, paying bills, and all of that. But at a certain level, though, uh, money doesn't mean anything anymore. You already have the house, no, you can buy two, three, four, five hours. You can only be in one house at a time, you can only drive one car at a time. So after a while, it doesn't fulfill anymore. But when you go from success to significance, it's no longer about me, myself, and I, but it's about developing the next generation. How can you help somebody else reach their dream? That's really what gives meaning. Um, when I was uh a commanding officer, what gave me the most fulfillment was to see my junior officer and my uh junior enlisted people promote, get awards, and uh become so much greater than they were before and adding greater value to the Navy? That gave me even more joy than I've ever had in my entire career, knowing that I had a small portion to play into their future developments. 1000%. Leaders, what gives you great joy? Leaders, what would look like a win for you as you look at developing the people on your team and your organization? What systems do you need to tighten up and strengthen? Go ahead and share with us in the chat. And if you're watching on the replay, we still want you to go ahead and share with us. And we will refer back to this and mention it at in one of our mobilizing with impact newsletters and on a future episode. So as we turn the corner of this conversation, I want to ask you this final question, right? Sew into us now. Here's the deal: many of us as professionals, we want to transition into leadership roles, but many times we feel overwhelmed by the complexity of whatever the field is, right? What mindset shifts, what practical steps would you recommend to the leader that's listening, that's watching right now, to what would you recommend to emerging leaders? I think one of the greatest lessons I have learned in leadership, especially in the Navy when I was a CEO, is you have to lead with humility. Something happens as you climb up the uh uh ladder of success, right? Both in Silicon Valley and uh in the Navy, I started at the very, very bottom. I used to be a computer technician associate. Today, no, last year I had I was the chief information security officer at the very, very top of my field. Same thing in the Navy. I joined 21 years ago as an E1 seaman recruit, lowest rank in the military. Today I am a senior officer in the most powerful Navy in the world, a commander. And sometimes as you achieve your dream, your head can get a little bit bigger. You feel like you are better than you actually are. And I think it's really important to have people in your life like my wife who can sit you down and say, Okay, you are Bob Zinger. I don't care about your achievement, I don't care about your rank, and all of that. Shut up and sit down, and just gives you that real that reality check. So I think one of the first mindset shifts, I think, is really understanding that nobody knows everything. Yeah, you may know a lot, you may know more than you did five years ago, but you don't know everything. So cybersecurity, I think, is too broad. Leadership is too complex. The goal is not mastery of everything, and nobody can master everything. The goal, I think, is continuous growth. So, the particular advice I would say is um build a strong foundation, learn a networking, operating system, cloud, uh, fundamental risk management, business operation. But then you also need to develop communication skills, which we talked about before. Right? Your ability to explain risk will eventually matter more than your ability to configure technology, especially if you you get a leadership role. It's not about you speaking your your technical jargon because be on board, senior leaders are not gonna understand a word of what you say, but it's to translate that into business terms that they can actually understand and act upon. So I think you need to find mentors. Every major breakthrough in my career came through mentorship, and uh also will end with uh lead before you have a title. But adding a title doesn't make you a leader. Again, I was uh and in San My C daddy told me you are a leader if nobody else you lead yourself, right? That's leadership, volunteer, coach, mentor, take ownership. Leadership begins before promotion. Uh, if I can add one more thing, is to just stay curious, right? Because it goes with being humble, because technology will change, human nature does not, so you have to study both. The future belongs to lifelong learners. I think if I had a master, uh uh, I don't know, uh power, that's it. Um, being a student for life, a lifelong learner. Lifelong learner. I love this. So, you know, as we finish this conversation, what I just gleaned from the whole conversation and from you right now is you know, for all of us as leaders, leaders start where you are. BZ reminded us build one skill at a time. He said, find a mentor, be a coach, stay teachable, right? Understand that growth happens progressively, not instantly. BZ, I want to thank you so much for this invaluable and very valuable conversation, right? You have challenged us, you have caused us to reflect, and you've sewn into us, and we can't thank you enough. I know that there are leaders who are listening and watching right now that want to follow up, engage. So, what's the best way to do that? Yes, I think uh link link LinkedIn is the best way to get in touch with me. Pretty much everything I do is is there. And uh in closing, I would say the future of leadership will not be determined by who has the most advanced technology. I don't think that's that's the case. It will be determined by who can build trust the fastest, adapt the best, and learn continuously, right? Inspire people to accomplish missions larger than themselves, right? That's true in the Navy, that's true in cybersecurity, and that's true in every boardroom around the world. Yes. Thank you so much. It has been wonderful to host you here on Transformation Station. We truly appreciate. And listeners and viewers, you know what we like to do? We always support our guests. So I'm inviting you right now, click on the link. You saw it on the screen. You also will see all of his links in the description box. I need you to go there and also contact him. Contact him on LinkedIn, let him know that you saw that you heard this episode, share with him what resonated with you, and go into all of the posts that you see and put comments there and share with us. And then finally, be sure to share this with somebody else. DC, thank you so much. It's been great to have you today. Thank you so much. What a powerful conversation. Okay, so a couple of things stood out to me. What stood out to me today is this leadership at the speed of threat. It requires more than you just being technical. It requires that human side where you and I as leaders have resilience, adaptability, emotional intelligence, and strategic thinking that gives us the courage to lead our teams through the uncertainty with clarity and confidence. Again, a huge thank you to BZ for sharing his insight, his leadership experience and wisdom with us today. Now, to everybody listening, leaders, I'm gonna say this to you: do not underestimate the importance of preparing yourself before pressure arrives. Strong leadership is not built accidentally, it is conditioned intentionally. I want to thank you for joining us here on Transformation Station Leadership Podcast. Be sure to subscribe, follow, and share this episode to continue engaging with us. Until next time, lead with purpose, adapt with wisdom, and keep on transforming from the inside out.