TSLP Season 5 Ep. 2- Driving Change

🎙️ Driving Change with Brandon Kowallis

Change is constant but successful change is not. Leaders can announce a new direction, launch a new initiative, or restructure an organization…but that doesn’t mean people are ready to move with them.

Today, we’re talking about what it really takes to drive change without losing your people along the way.If you’re leading through transition, uncertainty, restructuring, shifting priorities or simply know something needs to change this conversation is for you.

🎯 And Brandon will step into The Mobilizing Minute™ to leave us with practical leadership wisdom you can immediately put into action.

Learn more about Brandon:
https://www.brandonkowallis.com/about/

Thanks for tuning in to Transformation Station! If this episode fired you up, smash that subscribe button, share it with someone who’s ready to level up, and tell me the moment that hit hardest. Your voice keeps this movement unstoppable. 

Until next time, stand tall, step bold, and own your transformation.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:19

It is very true. Change is everywhere. We're talking about new priorities, new systems, new expectations. But here's the challenge. Change being announced doesn't mean that change has been adapted. You know, leaders who drive change well, we understand that transformation is not just about direction. It's about trust. It's about listening. It's about clarity. And today we're talking about what it takes to really mobilize people through change. Come on, let's get this conversation started. Welcome to Transformation Station Leadership Podcast, where leadership, resilience, mindset, and transformation come together to help you and I grow from the inside out. I'm your host, Adrian Benton, and I'm so glad that you have chosen to spend this time with me. You know, I've been thinking, change is one of the few constraints in leadership. We're talking about organizations evolving and teams shifting and priorities changing. I mean, think about it. Leaders, as leaders, we're often responsible for guiding people forward even when we don't have all the answers. Well, joining me today is Brandon. And together we're exploring the topic driving change. We'll talk about the difference between announcing change and mobilizing people through it and how leaders can respond to resistance and why trust matters when outcomes aren't certain. You know what? It's time for you to meet Brandon. Brandon, welcome to Transformation Station Leadership Podcast. We're excited to have you with us today.

SPEAKER_00 2:16

I'm psyched to be here. It's gonna be fun to talk about change.

SPEAKER_01 2:20

Absolutely. Well, listen, okay. So here's some more of my musings, right? Change is really just about practice. I've seen over the years in office spaces with organizations that when change happens, it's not just the change itself. It it definitely has an impact, right? Even if it's small, it affects the people, it affects the routines of the team, it sometimes affects people's confidence and or self-control. So I want to start off by asking you this question change, it's constant, but successful change is not. So, what do you believe separates leaders who simply announce change from leaders who actually mobilize people through it?

SPEAKER_00 3:05

Yeah, and I really like what you said about change is constant because it's just a part of life. Um, and it's something that I think all of us really have to embrace because that's just how life operates. And uh and so I I think uh the first thing we need to do is really accept that change is ever present and it's just part of life. Um in terms of what separates leaders um who simply announce change from those who kind of mobilize through it, I because I so I I worked in higher ed for 20 years and public public education, and that was one area that I think I see a lot of leaders struggle with. And I think that there is a very simple solution. And a lot of times when I was in higher ed, a lot of folks would say, Oh, it's change. Change is just hard, it's just something we have to deal with. And the reality is that change is hard if it's not done well. And I think that is the key. And leaders who do it well, I think there's there are a few steps to doing change well. The first one is to identify the problems because usually you're changing something because there's a problem that needs solving. And uh, and the first step is to identify the problem, but where a lot of people go wrong, and especially leaders, is that they feel like they know the problem and they also know the solution. And approaching it that way and saying, hey, this is the problem, this is the solution, a lot of people are gonna freak out because a couple of reasons. One is that the problem as they define it is not the problem that everybody defines. So step one is getting together with all of the people who are impacted by this problem in any way and getting them to agree on what is the definition of the problem. Because I might say this is the problem, and somebody at the ground level might say, no, no, no, no, no, this is the problem. Someone in the middle might say, no, actually, it's more this. And then as you get together and talk and you come up with the definition of the problem, once everybody agrees on the problem, then solving that becomes a lot easier. And then people embrace the change because they all agree that the problem is a problem. And so, of course, we all want to solve it. So I think that's one of the big differences. Leaders who come in and just say, here's the problem and this is the solution, are always gonna hit resistance and it's gonna create frustration. So, step one, identify the problem and get everybody to agree on the problem.

SPEAKER_01 5:53

I love that. So, leaders, you're listening right now to Brandon. He's giving us a masterclass right here. I want you to go ahead and tell us in the comment section, not only where you're watching or listening from, but also share with us like what's resonating with what Brandon just shared. You know, Brandon, as you were talking, I was thinking to myself about this leadership principle, which I think goes perfectly in alignment with what you said. Change becomes movement when people understand both the purpose and their place in it. And, you know, as I've seen over the years where when a leader comes in and says, this is what we're doing, we're making this change, and all people know is that they have to just make the change, you lose trust, you lose people having that team consensus, right? Feeling valued, and then they just become, well, you know what, my opinion doesn't matter. Let me just go ahead and do what I'm being told. Uh and I've seen even when where the routines that the team normally has, it gets out of whack, right? And instead of people coming in with confidence, they come in with uncertainty, just kind of trying to figure it out in the day-to-day. And that's unsustainable. So I want to ask you this question. What's one of the biggest challenges that leaders, sorry, one of the biggest challenges that leaders face is resistance. So, how can a leader determine whether resistance is something to overcome or valuable feedback that they need to listen to?

SPEAKER_00 7:24

Yeah, so I this is this is me speaking, but I feel like if there's resistance, a lot of times that's a sign that you're not fully understanding um the the challenges and the problem from the perspective of those who are resisting. So I think that's a great flag to say, to say, wait a second, maybe there's something I'm missing. Have I really sat down and and uh worked with these folks to understand the problem from their perspective? Because if I haven't, they're gonna continue to resist as long as I continue to make the change because they don't feel like they've been like they've been heard. And now that's generally, there's also, I mean, for all of us, change, even when it seems like it's good change, can be uncomfortable because it's new and we're getting out of what is our comfort zone. And so sometimes even when people understand, yeah, there's a problem and there's a need to change, but but I don't want to change because I'm really comfortable doing it this way. So, and I think when it comes to that, that kind of a scenario, you have listened to them, you've understood where they're coming from, you've all kind of agreed on what the problem is, and there's still some resistance, then really it's a matter of empathy, working with them, trying to understand. There was a there's a quote that I really like that says, Nobody cares how much you know until they know how much you care. And a lot of that comes from listening and trying to understand the problem from their perspective. And sometimes that's not just a one and done kind of meeting. It's it's meeting regularly with people and really understanding and help them to remember that you are working on this together, that their feedback is valuable and that they are part of the solution. Because I think that can also derail things when it's like, yeah, I listened to them and now I'm moving forward with what I think is the solution. And I'll I'll keep you updated when we're done with the solution. And then everybody's like stressed out and like, where is this going? I don't know. So I think it's a regular engagement. You've identified the problem. Now, all of you stakeholders who are involved, you're gonna help me craft the solution to the problem. And then what happens when you do that is you then create advocates for the change. So maybe um for me, some of the changes that we made involve faculty. Well, we had 500 and some faculty, so we just had a group of three or four, and then they go back to the faculty senate and say, hey, there's this great thing that we're doing. And so their peers are advocating for this change, and that kind of helps it move forward. But I think using empathy in those moments where they have been involved, but they're still struggling with that very human need to have control of our lives. And now my system is changing, um, being there for them to help them to make that transition, I think is really important.

SPEAKER_01 10:49

I've heard a phrase, Brandon, that says resistance is information. Have you heard of that before? What do you think?

SPEAKER_00 10:55

No, I've never heard that one. That's great, though.

SPEAKER_01 10:57

Resistance is information. What do you what what comes to your mind when you hear that sentence there?

SPEAKER_00 11:02

Um I mean, it's it's anything. It's like, it's like a uh it could be like a warning flag or something that comes up. Like there are different things that can happen in our lives that that help us to pay attention, I think. When things are not going smoothly, when there is resistance, I mean, that's a that's a big hello, like pause for a second and uh and and listen to me. I've got some information here to share with you that you're not getting. And I I actually had that experience in working in higher ed times when when you just feel this frustration because you didn't feel like people were hearing or understanding what information you're trying to give them. And uh, and so I think if you can sense that frustration in people, that's a really good indicator that, hey, they've got some information for you that they want to share and they want you to consider.

SPEAKER_01 11:54

You know, what I appreciate about this conversation was how you started out, where you were uh talking about going back and asking the team questions, right? How can we get to yes, or how can we find the solution? And, you know, when I saw the phrase that um resistance is information, you know, I was thinking to myself, man, that resistance gives the leader the perfect opportunity to listen. Where is this resistance coming from? What's at the root of it, right? You know, listening doesn't mean that you have to abandon the transition or the change that's going to happen, but listening helps to give you some serious keys as to what the journey is going to be like, and also gives you an opportunity to hear what's important to your team, the ones who are going to actually be doing the work or journeying with you through the change, which is so key and important. I had a recent situation where we had to make a change, and I literally could see well, first I could sense sometimes. You look at the body language, right? Or the way something is communicating, you're like, okay, this is not sitting too well. And when I began to ask some questions, I realized what was at the root of it was my team was tired, and they saw the change as, uh oh, here now is something else additional that I have to do, and I'm not gonna get a break. So when I realized, wait a minute, they're tired. It really had didn't have much to do with what they were going to do. It was taking care of them so that they were in the best state to be able to do it. But had we not sat down, not asked any questions, if you know we weren't aware that there was this body language, there was this quiet resistance that was happening, it could have been disastrous. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 13:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:48

So let me ask you this question, right? Leaders often know where they want an organization to go, but the people closest to the work may experience the change very differently. How do we close that gap?

SPEAKER_00 14:00

Um, I I think just from my experience, the the best thing is to operate from a place of humility as a leader. And because sometimes we think, because of the way that we perceive the problem, we think that we have the solution, but we're often missing a lot of information. And so I I think closing the gap is really, it's I mean, it's it's important to go and listen to those individuals at all levels of the organization. So I completed a Lean Six Sigma certification, a black belt certification. And a big part of that was understanding the needs of the customer. And that and that requires humility. And the customer of a process can be anybody along the journey of that wherever that process takes place or that big change takes place. So I think having the humility to listen and understand the people who are all part of the process is probably like one of the most important things that that a leader can do. Um, because I have seen so many times when poor changes have rolled out, and a lot of it become comes because they felt like they had the they had the answer and they were ready to move forward with it, and they were pretending to listen, but but but they were not really hearing and understanding the the the perspective and the needs and the the wisdom of those who had been operating the process or involved in the process at all levels.

SPEAKER_01 15:42

They were hearing, but they were not listening. Correct, yes. Leaders, that's a good stamp your foot point to really think about and to consider. We hear our people, but are we really listening to them? And you know, Brandon, I heard somebody say that the same letters in silence are also in listen. Hmm, just different.

SPEAKER_00 16:03

Human, yeah. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 16:08

Absolutely. So I've heard you mention a couple of times this word humility. And I think that that is a very word that that as leaders we have to be aware of and we have to be willing to courageously be humble, right? So let me ask you this question because humility oftentimes is tied to another word called trust. So, what role does trust play in driving change, particularly when leaders cannot guarantee ouch, what the outcome is going to look like? And that happens more times than not, right? So, what role does trust play in driving change when leaders cannot guarantee what the outcome will look like?

SPEAKER_00 16:48

Yes, so I think trust is critical at uh in every operation of a business, especially when it comes to change. And I think that's something that doesn't just happen overnight. It's something that takes time and uh and it takes a leader who, again, back to the humility, they're willing to be humble and say, I don't really know all the answers. I have some ideas, but I'm also looking to you all. And establishing a culture where change and failure become the norm, but also, but they're not, but if it if done well, and you can you can help your people to understand that anytime a change is gonna happen, I am gonna come to you because I want to hear your perspective. And I'm really gonna listen to that perspective, take it to heart, and integrate it and involve you in the process of creating the solutions that we all move for to uh or move toward together. And I think if people know that and they really believe that, then anytime you bring up, hey, we're looking at these changes, people aren't gonna freak out because they're gonna know that they're gonna trust that moving forward, you are going to involve them in the process. They're gonna be in the loop, they're gonna be part of the solution, and that if things fail, that's okay. And it encourages people as well, not just to wait for the leader to come and say we're gonna make change, but also hopefully inspires in them to make changes within their own operations and to not be afraid to try and to fail. And uh, and I think without establishing that culture within whatever your organization is you work at, then you're gonna often hit roadblocks uh when you try to implement change. And it takes time, it takes going through a couple of changes and demonstrating that you do this well and you involve them before people are gonna not cringe anytime change is mentioned or alluded to or it's gonna take place. So, yeah, but trust absolutely critical in trying to drive effective change and do it in a way that people are excited for the change and they're happy to be a part of it.

SPEAKER_01 19:12

I love that. You know, it's so important for us as leaders not to pretend we know everything. Um, another one of my leadership mantras that I try to model is, you know, I tell my team, I'm not asking you to be perfect, I'm asking you to be progressive. You know, there has to be space to make mistakes. There has to be space to learn and to grow. Like that's how we learn and grow. If every mistake or everything that is deemed a failure, not successful, didn't meet mission, if everything is major and critical, life is over, and man, that that becomes a very toxic environment, right? But you want you want your team to be able to feel as though they're gonna do their best, but if they make a mistake, we're we're gonna we're we're gonna hold each other accountable and we're gonna figure this out together. And so as leaders, we you know it's important, leaders, you're not perfect. Don't try to be perfect, seek to be proficient, right? Seek to model excellence, but not perfection. So this this is, I'm sorry, go ahead, please.

SPEAKER_00 20:14

Yeah, I was uh just thinking of change and and this idea of failure, that if you can establish that culture as well, because a lot of times I've been involved in change where the senior leaders come out and they're like, we're gonna make this change, and it starts moving forward and it's a mess. And you try everything you can and it's just not working. And they continue to say, Well, we got we have to make it work, like we have to make it work. And you're sitting there thinking, like from an accounting perspective, there's a principle called a sunk cost. And that is like you purchase this thing for your company and you're investing in it. And after a certain amount of time, if you start to realize, yeah, like this is not going in the right direction, it's not working. Rather than investing more time and more energy and more money into this, you accept, hey, you know what? We spend the money on it. It really hurts to like just kind of pull the plug, but we can tell we're moving in a direction where this is not working. Let's call it a failure, let's call it a learning experience. And then let's go ahead and we're gonna try different next time. And so I think having that attitude is really important and it gives people confidence that I can try, I can fail. And if it doesn't work, I'm not gonna be forced to make it work, to fit the square peg in the round hole. I can I can say, hey, this is isn't working. We've given it our everything we can. We tried everything possible, it's not working. Now we're gonna try the next plan. Let's move on with it.

SPEAKER_01 21:43

I like that. And as you said that, I hear excitement in your voice. I love that. Very motivating. So, so here's the next piece, though. Change, change, fatigue is real, right? How can we as leaders continue moving an organization forward when our people are tired of the next initiative or the next restructuring or the next new priority? How can we continue to move our team forward when they're when they're fatigued?

SPEAKER_00 22:14

Yeah, well, and I I think I think it goes back to developing that culture because change, fatigue is real, but also excitement over change can also be real. And it goes back to just is it done right? What's the culture? And are you changing things that everybody agrees are important to change? Because I've I've found that once be and this is it kind of how I feel too like if if there's something that I perceive. as a problem, like I want it fixed. I want it changed. But if there's something that I don't perceive as a problem, then I don't want it changed. And I don't want to, I don't want to invest my time and energy in fixing it because I don't think it's a problem. So why am I, why am I going to invest time and energy in it? And then if somebody forces me to invest time and energy on something and I never perceive it's a problem, then it's just, it's exhausting and it's super frustrating because I've got other things that I want to focus my time on that I feel are important. So I think addressing that that fatigue is really about changing the way that you change things and creating a culture of change and encouraging people to change appropriately. And the reality like we when we back in the beginning we talked about change is constant and and that I I think we get used we we all like to control things. We like to have things operate the we want the way we want them to operate which is just human nature. But the reality nature nature is that things are constantly changing. So I think it's really about helping to establish a culture where those two things are the norm, allowing flexibility and freedom for people to craft things the way that they want to so they feel like they have some semblance of control, but also helping to everybody feel comfortable and excited about good change and helping to establish this expectation that change when done at our organization will be done well. And we commit to that and helping people to understand that because I think if you can do that you can move past change creates fatigue to change is exciting because anytime change happens I know and I understand the problem and I'm involved in the solution. Or if it doesn't even have anything to do with me then I then that's totally fine because I don't really care.

SPEAKER_01 24:56

I love that. And leaders do you hear the excitement in Brandon's voice right sometimes the way we communicate things makes a difference as well there are going to be times where our team does not feel excited. But if they know that you know this is not a necessarily life is over major critical if the the mission may be important and they need to be successful. But if they understand that there will be opportunities to grow to rebuild to figure it out to try again that makes a big difference and so we want to invite you to just take some time right now to just stop and assess how the the is the culture in the organization that you are leading when it comes to change do your team does your team feel courageous enough to walk with you to take the bold steps even if things multiple things are changing at the same time communication is so key. So Brendan um as we turn the corner on this conversation I'm going to invite you to speak directly to us there are leaders that are listening and watching right now that know that change is necessary. Yet today right now as they're listening and watching um we're hesitant to initiate the change what's the first courageous step that you would encourage us to take so the first courageous step I think when it comes to change is kind of what we talked about in the beginning.

SPEAKER_00 26:18

Try to figure out this change that you're about to make what problem is it trying to solve or what opportunity is it creating and then sit down with all your people sit there and make a list of with this change who all is going to be impacted by this change. Once you have that list get those people together get them to all agree with you or you agree with them on what that problem is. And once you get to that point and everybody agrees on the problem I think you'll see magic happen when you involve them then in crafting the solution you'll find that it won't be painful. It'll be exciting and it'll be fun for everyone to be a part of building something amazing that they can look back and say, wow, I was a part of that so that that would be my encouragement for the first step that to take when you feel like there is a change that it's necessary and to have the humility to if you present your problem out there and everybody get disagrees with you that that it's a problem, have the humility to say, okay, well maybe it's not a problem maybe it's my problem and I need to now turn around and see things a little bit differently. And I think if you do that you'll see incredible things happen in your organization with your people and I think you'll get to a point where where everybody feels like change is a good thing not something to be afraid of but something to embrace and to be excited about at your organization.

SPEAKER_01 27:59

I love it. I love it mobilizers as you're listening again we want to ask you what's resonating with you. Go ahead whether you're watching this right now with us or whether you're watching on the replay go ahead and start typing in the comment section what's resonating with you as you're listening to Brandon today. So Brandon we have a new segment here in mobilizing uh in our Transformation station leadsha podcast it's called the mobilizing minute and this is where we move from conversation to action and we give our guests an opportunity to leave some practical wisdom. So I'm going to ask you two questions and then just answer them for us okay this is a one minute so first we're talking about legacy and here it goes finish this sentence the leaders who drive change well are the ones who this is for me yes this is for you okay I wasn't sure if it was for me or the audience um the the leaders who drive change well are the ones who listen to their people and have the humility to to accept when they're when they're wrong I love that I love that listen to their people and accept when they're wrong. Okay question number two word of the season what is one word you believe leaders should carry into this season and why I would say love and the reason why is because if you love the people who are part of your team part of your organization then you're operating from a place where their interest is your interest and where and when when that happens I think amazing things happen within your organization because you care very much about them.

SPEAKER_00 30:00

You want them to be happy you want them to be successful and you want the organization to be successful.

SPEAKER_01 30:08

I love that thank you so much for sharing that wisdom with us. So listen I know that there are leaders that are listening and watching that want to find out more, that want to engage with you. What's the best way for them to do so?

SPEAKER_00 30:20

So the best way would be to check out my website brandoncoelles.com also check out my book Cursing Mountains uh which takes a lot of the wisdom that I've gained in my years of working in a leadership position as well as uh I do a lot of cave exploration and have been some really dangerous risky uh scenarios and I just talk about how to deal with some of those situations both underground and in the boardroom and it's done in a really fun way uh follows a character named Chris whose life is falling apart there's a story that teaches these concepts so those are probably the best venues um I would love to hear from anyone out there if you have questions you can reach out to me on my website or any of my social media accounts which are on my website.

SPEAKER_01 31:05

Yes I love it. All right so guests I mean listeners and viewers you know how we do here we love to support our guests. So you see the description the link is here on the screen you also will see it in the description box. I want you to go ahead and click on that link. You've got to go get the book okay you got to get the book I also am inviting you to reach out to Brandon let him know that you saw that you heard this particular episode let him know what has resonated with you and ask him questions right he has many experiences that I think will be very valuable for you to be able to tap into Brandon thank you so much for joining us today it has absolutely been a delight to have this pivotal conversation about change. Thank you so much for being our guest today.

SPEAKER_00 31:45

My pleasure it's been amazing.

SPEAKER_01 31:47

Thank you. Well listen we are thrilled today let me tell you why number one we want to tell Brandon thank you because he reminded us that driving change is not simply about creating a new direction it's about helping people to move with us. And I know that today's conversation reminded you as it reminded me that effective change requires remember these words trust humility listening and courage you know speaking of that I'm going to invite you to have the courage to join the mobilizing with impact community. On this coming Sunday we have our mobilizing prayer circle you know we meet once a month as leaders to come together we have a devotion we have prayer requests testimonies and then we pray together and we're gone. But we've been doing this is about 30 35 minutes once a month as leaders we have seriously been seeing so many miracles take place. And so I invite you to join us how can you join us is very simple. Right now you can go to mobilizingwithimpact.com become a member go to the events tab in the events tab you will find the Zoom link and then on this coming Sunday you will be able to join us and we invite you to join us every month. I also want to remind you that every month we have a theme you know in the month of August the theme is leading through grief and leading through loss many of us are experiencing loss. I created a framework for you it's a resource guide. This resource guide is complementary it's the hope framework and so I want to invite you to tap into the resources that Mobilizing with impact has for you. You can get this particular framework all you have to do is go to mobilizingwithimpact.com when you go there go to the learning tab and you will see this framework. Previously we had the anchor framework now we have the hope framework these are resources for you to utilize for your leadership journey as well as sharing it with someone else and so finally on that note I want to remind you your copy of a greater force than failure intentional time with God is waiting for you. Where is it? It's waiting for you on Amazon.com you can go there right now and purchase it it's for anyone who has ever made a mistake come on that is all of us if you've ever made a mistake and said to yourself oh I acknowledge the mistake but now how do I move forward? Well it takes you through a four step self self-guided journey to do just that and as always I want to invite you don't just get a copy for yourself but you really want to go through the journal with someone else. So get a copy for another coworker, a friend, a family member and go through it together. And as always you can contact me I love to hear from you so that I can share the journey with you. You know again I just want to say thank you to Brandon. I really want to thank him because he reminded us of so many pivotal things change becomes sustainable when people that we serve that we lead when they understand the mission when they trust our leadership and believe they have a meaningful role in what comes next thank you so much for sharing your day your afternoon your morning with me for another episode of Transformation Station Leadership Podcast. So until next time keep growing keep leading keep mobilizing change and keep transforming from the inside out