The Courage to Be Fully Seen | Susan Beth of Strong Confident Femininity

What if confidence isn't something we achieve, but something that naturally emerges when we feel safe enough to be fully seen?

In this heartfelt conversation, I sit down with Susan Beth of Strong Confident Femininity to explore authenticity, embodied femininity, and the profound role that safety plays in revealing our true nature.

Together, we reflect on the many layers women often carry throughout life—expectations, roles, protection, survival—and the lifelong journey of gently peeling them away to rediscover who we've always been beneath them.

We explore why no two expressions of femininity are the same, why no one else gets to define your own authentic expression of the masculine and feminine, and how creating enough safety—both within ourselves and with one another—allows authenticity to naturally emerge.

Susan also shares her unique approach to photography, creating spaces where women feel seen, supported, and free to express their authentic nature without performance or expectation.

This conversation isn't about becoming someone else.

It's about Remembering who you are.

If you've ever wondered what it means to embody both strength and softness, or felt the longing to come home to yourself, I hope this conversation offers both reflection and inspiration.

If this conversation touches your heart, or reminds you of someone you love, please share it with them. Sometimes a single conversation arrives at exactly the right moment in someone's life.

In gratitude, 💛
Theresa G.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Welcome to the Good Watrice G! Every season begins and ends here in Montana, but between those moments, who knows where we'll go. Together we'll explore conversations that invite us to see ourselves, each other, and this beautiful human experience a little differently. We'll talk about healing, relationships, purpose, consciousness, and nature, and what it means to live a more connected life. Some conversations may challenge what we think we know, but others may remind us of something we've always known deep down. My hope is that each episode leaves us with something tangible: a new perspective, a seat of possibility, a spark of curiosity, or simply a reminder that there is goodness all around us if we're willing to look for it. Thank you so much for being here. Today I'd like I'd love to introduce you to Susan Beth, the woman. Hi, she is the woman behind the camera here at Strong Confident Femininity. Susan understands the fears, insecurities, and worries so many women carry because they were once her fears and worries too. Probably still are sometimes. Yeah. Um, and she also knows something powerful. So many of the stories we believe about ourselves are rooted in fear, comparison, and old narratives that simply aren't true. I like to call her my femininity fairy godmother because this woman somehow captured me in a softness and authenticness, a way of being that I honestly had not seen in myself before. So she is sort of like she can she knows how to bring it out in you. Um we're in her studio right now. Um, and if you were here, you'd you'd immediately understand the energy. It feels soft, it feels feminine, it has some great lights, and it just sort of helps um me exhale and calm. That seems to be sort of with your magic power.

SPEAKER_00 2:10

I hope so. I I do get that a lot from women that I've made them feel comfortable in a situation they did not think they would feel comfortable in. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 2:18

I would have to say, I mean, we'll get into it, but um her process is quite your process is quite fine-tuned. You seem to have really figured it out on how to sort of help women feel comfortable, um, meet with the meet with women and help them just sort of um you where you ask the questions and get to know them so that you can meet them where they are.

SPEAKER_00 2:41

Yeah, there's a there is a certain amount of that that's in the structured process that I've created. There's a certain amount of it that's just a gift, and uh, it doesn't sound very humble to say I have that gift, but the fact of the matter is I seem to have had that gift since long before I even started doing this, and this was just an opportunity to capitalize on something that was coming natural to me, anyways.

SPEAKER_02 3:05

Well, how did let's start at the beginning. Okay, how did strong femininity competent femininity start? This idea.

SPEAKER_00 3:14

Um so I think I I've told this story many times about my mom, but way back when I was 13, my mom gave me pretty lacy camisoles to wear under my clothes in middle school. Not for anybody else to see, but just for me to know was there. And that kind of set a standard for me about being able to be. I was kind of a tomboy, but being able to be that kind of a tomboy who backpacked and rode her bike and did all sorts of things, but still have that soft side, and that the two were not inconsistent with one another. And that, you know, I was going through puberty, and as my body was changing and developing to be more obviously feminine, um, it was okay for me to have ways of expressing that that kind of femininity, that softness, as you've said, but that elegance or just everything to grow into. And then, you know, fast forward many years after um 40 years almost probably, um, when I was take began to be a professional photographer, I kind of had an inkling that I liked this. I liked this type of work. I liked working with my brides because I was mostly doing weddings. And that um, you know, they're getting into their wedding dress with me there. Sometimes they're getting secret, many brides wear nothing under their dress. Um, nothing. And so, you know, there's a lot of that just working through the modesty, comfort level with my camera. What does she want me to capture? What does she not want me to capture? Yeah, following her lead and doing that.

SPEAKER_02 4:57

And um And then that happened at our shoot, too. Except we're in the middle of on top of a rock. Yes, right? Yeah, and I'm just like, okay, here we go. Which is fine. She was fine. She she's fine. And then I was like, I need help with my breast. She's like, Can I touch your breasts? I'm like, Yes, please. And it worked out wonderful. And we fixed it, it was better than anything.

SPEAKER_00 5:17

And wait till you see all the photos. Yes. So we um so I had this space in my home that I could make a studio. I had always been opposed to being a studio photographer, but this space, as you can see, there's great light in here. There's great light behind this curtain and in a room upstairs. And so I could make a studio to do this kind of work privately out in my rural home and not um not really waste money investing in, no offense to the realtor, but investing in a whole studio and a lease and all of that. I could try it and um which makes your prices more affordable. It does. Yeah. And um, I my husband was fully on board, helped me redesign this room. Um, and we just I just kind of went for it. I took some classes online, um, and then um a hair and makeup artist that I used to work with, she's kind of left that field now, but she brought seven women in for uh my first ever boudoir shoots with seven women, one after another after another. She's doing hair and makeup, I'm doing the photography, and then all of us went out for uh dinner that night.

SPEAKER_02 6:37

Was that to build your portfolio?

SPEAKER_00 6:38

That was just a portfolio build, yes. So I didn't pay them, they got paid in pictures, um, they did not pay me, and we just created fun images. And um I've I just basically got into it and was doing all that kind of classic boudoir stuff fitting into the box of those classes I had taken for maybe five minutes, and then it was like, this is stupid, it does not make women comfortable to do it this way. And I started to ask.

SPEAKER_02 7:08

What was it like? What I mean, what are you doing?

SPEAKER_00 7:10

It was like a woman. I knew already that I was a movement poser because that's how I pose couples as well. But it was like instead of asking a woman to just hold a particular now, okay, breathe out and relax and one click, and then let's do the next pose. And they're not in control of any part of it. I'm in control of every part of it, and I'm determining which part of their body is getting highlighted and which part of their um of their personality is being allowed to show through, and that's kind of fitting into here's this big group of pictures that you've been taught these are the best sellers, and make every woman fit into it, and that just wasn't working for me. And my connection to women, my connection to people in general was very uncomfortable with that. So I um I just started asking them questions. What do you think about this? Try this, maybe give a little swishy-swashy with that skirt, or do this. You don't have to get stripped down into the lingerie first. If you're more comfortable with something else first and getting comfortable in front of the camera, that's fine with me. And at the end of the day, working with those women, it was like, this is not at all like what I saw in classes. And I'm not gonna do what I saw in classes because these women had fun, these women expressed joy, and some of these women had modeled before, some of them had not, but every one of them said, You made me feel so comfortable. And I thought, well, I don't want to take pictures of women who are feeling uncomfortable, right?

SPEAKER_02 8:46

And um and posed in a standard way that society has decided.

SPEAKER_00 8:52

Right, yeah, and and so what's come about, I and that whole standard way that society is decided. I've heard many women have said, Oh yeah, I did pictures, I didn't even recognize myself. One woman said they shared my pictures online and nobody recognized me. And I thought, well, what does that tell a woman? That that tells her you I needed to change you to make you successful, as beautiful as you are. And some of it is, you know, that people will change your body shape. Oh, we'll just tuck this in here or tuck that in here. I have a general rule: if it's gonna be gone in three weeks, I'll take care of it. Yes, that's what you do. But if it's not gonna be gone in three weeks, it's a part of you are who you are, and you're still beautiful. And if I think, oh, I've got to fix and fix and fix, then I'm approaching a woman not as she's beautiful and this is amazing. I'm approaching her as what do I need to fix? How can I and that's more about me than about her. I'm telling my story, not hers.

SPEAKER_02 9:50

Yeah, and it's also sort of putting women in this box that we're all you know fighting against. Yes. Um that doesn't really capture us.

SPEAKER_00 9:59

Right. It suggests you don't fit the standard. Yeah. And I don't believe that. I don't believe that there should be standards. Uh and the other part is I very quickly learned um that for a strong, confident femininity, I wanted a feminine gaze. I did not want to be taking pictures that were tailored to what's a man gonna want to look at. And a lot of boudoir is taught that way, taught by men photographers, but also by women photographers. And a woman can take a man gaze, man's gaze, a male gaze, when she's been taught that. So I spent a long time really working on what is the feminine gaze, what does the feminine gaze look like? And I I concluded for my studio and for me, the feminine gaze is designed is defined as the way the woman in front of the camera wants to be seen. So I love that. She gets to put what she wants. Yeah. And so, you know, the name strong, confident femininity, that's what I aspire to, is to be confident in whatever manifestation of femininity there is in me. And the strong part is just to do it with well, with confidence, but and and with a little bit of strength. So I, you know, I've had women come in and they don't want the softness, they don't want the lace, they want sleek, they want mystery, they want um power. Um, and we do power poses and we talk about different ways to express power in different poses, and then they get to choose what of that works for them and and get rid of what doesn't work for them. For some women, power is just sitting up straight and leaning in. For other women, power is moving like crazy with a whole bunch of fabric all around them and just framing themselves with the with all of this lace or fabric that I can't remember the name of right now, chiffon, all around them. That's power to them. That's for some women, their power is in their motherhood, and so maternity sessions work really well for them, or allowing their stretch marks from pregnancy to show because that's where they feel the most confident and powerful and feminine is in their their motherhood role. Other women have never been mothers, maybe never will be mothers, and they come in and where they express their power is at work, and so prompts to them are things like okay, just give me that look that says, I really know what's going on here, I'm catching all the clues, and I'm gonna take care of this situation. And that prompt works great for them.

SPEAKER_02 12:50

Well, I noticed that you sort of move me through the prompts also with my outfits, like you're like, this is a really this is a power outfit, and then I would move into my power because of the softness.

SPEAKER_00 13:02

By letting you choose what you wanted to wear instead of dictating here's what you should wear because this is where we're gonna be up in the mountain, we want flow. And I probably said if you want flow, then big skirts and everything will catch the wind. But you brought a pencil skirt too, and that was a power outfit. And allowing you to choose that and that outfit, then it tells me, oh, you want to express this kind of power, and knowing that you had that outfit, but you also had a couple flowy outfits, and you also wanted to be flitting around in the woods a little bit, which she caught, I'll show we'll show you those photos because the flitting around in the woods ones are phenomenal.

SPEAKER_02 13:46

Like it's like a storytelling.

SPEAKER_00 13:48

It's like a fairy tale almost.

SPEAKER_02 13:49

It is, it's like a fairy tale, it's like really a dream, a dream photo shoot. Yeah. So, what do you think women are needing or wanting right now when they come to you? It sounds like it's very varied. It's huge. Are you seeing a theme though? In this time.

SPEAKER_00 14:06

Um do I see a theme? I think I think there's a little bit more freedom for women to choose what they want. And if the if that's the that may be the very theme of it, is that they are free to express themselves as they experience themselves, as they want others to experience them. Um a lot of the the other theme that I maybe see is women do not want to have to perform. They want to be authentic, but that is a scary thing for a lot of women, especially women with powerful jobs, a lot of different roles that they're playing, from mom and wife and whatever their job is, and volunteer and daughter taking care of older parents. And the more you slap on her, the more she's stuck in this performance of that particular role, and the less time she has to just let all of her be together in one place. And I'm not saying women shouldn't have roles, I'm not saying that performance should never happen. There are places where you do need to go into performance mode in order to be efficient and get the goal done. But all women need a place where they can drop the performance and just be vulnerable and seen for who they really are and feel like somebody actually saw them and not just a slice of them.

SPEAKER_02 15:34

I mean, that that's a really interesting conversation because where do women go for that? My studio. You know? Our studio.

SPEAKER_00 15:45

Well, hopefully, like their partners or spouse can offer that or sometimes they can, and um, sometimes it's a friendship group, sometimes a a retreat, uh, a place of worship that um is non-judgmental for them and and that they can really connect with is a place where you often lose those kind of roles.

SPEAKER_02 16:08

It just or possibly just going within.

SPEAKER_00 16:11

Yes, you know, really sitting within. Well, and that for some women that is a place of worship for them. It's not that they're worshiping themselves, but worship is an inner dialogue, inner journey. Yes. Yeah. So I yeah, I the main point is that they have something that matches for them to do that if they wish to feel seen.

SPEAKER_02 16:30

That's a really important point, is you know, finding those spaces that you are seen for your authentic self, as I throw all the papers. But um Yeah, because that's something that as we rush around crazy and do all these roles, uh, that it's hard to sort of nestle into your who who we are, who we deeply are when we take away all these layers.

SPEAKER_00 16:56

Yeah, and sometimes the answer when I say to a woman, most of the time, the first answer when I say, How do you want to be seen? What are you thinking? They need prompts to help them because it's like, nobody's asked me that. What I don't even I haven't asked myself that. I know that I don't feel seen, but I don't know what's going to make me seen. And so sometimes we have to go through some prompts with words and other things about are these things characteristics of you or these other things, and um do some conversation about that before we even get to shoot day. Those conversations need to happen so that a woman can come prepared, knowing at least an inkling and something she can articulate with a word or two, and then we'll go from there and let it expand.

SPEAKER_02 17:41

And you and she does prompt because I just came in and I was like, Well, I want us to be embodied. And she's like, Yeah, I've heard that before. Like, what but what does that mean for you? Because everyone has a different embody what? Yeah, and you're trying to embody. She's like, what exactly? I don't, you know. But um, and yes, so and I think that that's sort of you that you that must happen often where you're where women come in with these like key words, and then you have to delve deeper into I do, and generally too, the feminine fairy godmother. Whether it comes in power and strength and softness, whatever it is, she can sort of pull it out of you.

SPEAKER_00 18:23

I think I yeah, like I said at the beginning, there's a certain amount of it that's just a gift, it's how I was created. But there's also a purposefulness in it and a real desire to take myself out of it. And I I come from a Christian background. I pray before everyone that I don't dominate this, that I let her blossom as who she is, and that I do so in a gentle way that does not leave her with all of her wounds open and me saying, bye, drive home, it's okay. Have a safe one. I try to be really, really careful about that, um, giving closure or wrapping up, putting the camera down and letting there be a few breaths. I I have an exercise with the crown that I do. One woman did that, um, and and it just went to tears for her. The crown was representing her role as mom and how important that is, how heavy that can be, how she wants to put it on, but how sometimes, as all of us moms do, she wants to be able to set it aside and be something different for a little bit. Then she's not necessarily in control of when that can happen.

SPEAKER_02 19:37

And I mean it's interesting that you mentioned this because, and we'll get into um uh my shoot with you, but I was like, when we were hiking out in the dark, I like all of a sudden I was like processing all these stories in my head um with her. And I don't know where it came from, but I think it was like uh feeling deeply into my essence and then just sort of like reviewing the things that had maybe not let me be that clear in my essence. So that's so is that something you notice? The often?

SPEAKER_00 20:11

Um yeah, different. I mean, different women have a different level of vulnerability that they're gonna allow to happen here in the studio. Um, some women just there's nothing left behind. Other women, this is the part that I'm working on, and this is where I'll be vulnerable with you, and you and and that's fine. They it's not empowering if I tell you to do something that makes you uncomfortable. I mean, you're a guide. You're a guide, you're really not yeah. And I'm not talking about not stretching you or pushing you a little bit, I'm talking about just like really just gloming on and delving into an area that she's like, uh-huh, this is not where you belong. Yeah, I don't belong there. Yeah, and I have to be careful not to go where I don't belong.

SPEAKER_02 20:53

Yeah, um, and I understand that. I it was just it's interesting to me that you are taking women sort of on a journey through themselves, right? So uh things might come up through that because, like we just said, a lot often we aren't given the space and time to do that and to really sit with our authentic self. So, so what happens? What is some of the feedback when you after shoots or people see it, the women see their photographs with you?

SPEAKER_00 21:25

So I think that has evolved a little bit over time as I have developed a more and more focused process process. Um I hear a lot in in um the reviews that people leave me about having made them comfortable. And I think that's important because a lot of women don't feel comfortable in front of the camera and they are afraid to come in front of the camera because they're afraid they'll be just nervous. Um, and I'm not saying they aren't nervous in those first few minutes, those first 20 minutes can be kind of stiff as we work out communication and everything. Um, so I hear that a lot. I hear um you made me feel seen, which is what got me to start actually researching and talking about what is it to be seen. Um I hear a lot of that was amazing, I feel empowered to, and then whatever it is, from one woman left saying, I'm going bathing suit shopping for the summer because I never feel comfortable. And I think right now I could go in the dressing room and get some great bathing suits and have confidence in them.

SPEAKER_02 22:31

See, that's magic. That's absolutely magic that you can you know spark that in people.

SPEAKER_00 22:38

Yeah, it was an early morning shoot. We had done outdoors in a similar place to where you did yours, and because it was early morning, we got back, it wasn't even noon yet. She said, I'm going shopping. Dressing room, it's not gonna scare me now. Which was great.

SPEAKER_02 22:51

What did what was she wearing in the shoot then? She actually had she'll show you photos while she's like, look.

SPEAKER_00 22:58

And I think that's actually a good thing because you're like, Whoa. I do show photos on the back of the camera. Yeah, she was wearing, she was she's a was a curvy girl, probably size 12 to 14. Um, so not somebody who couldn't hike. We hiked. Um, but she had these really kind of um vintage-esque big high-waisted undies that they weren't super high-cut, but they were panels of lace and silky material. And it was just super cute, and it just gave her um this really cute shape on her hips, and then emphasized that she did indeed have a waist. And then she had she was bigger chested, so she had a beautiful bra, probably similar to the one that you had on when you did the one lingerie part, that um was matched the panty set. So that was one. She had um one of my creamy white lace um robes that just kind of connects at the here that would flow behind her, and another bra and panty set, similar styles, different color, more white and creamy.

SPEAKER_02 24:09

Um were you showing her the photos? Is that what like made her shield so good? Or was it?

SPEAKER_00 24:15

Yeah, and also the freedom it again, the freedom to just to lay on the rock in the sun and to lean back, stretch back, and just let her body be in nature. And it's the whole process. I don't think it's I don't think there's one magic ingredient in the recipe. It's the whole process of allowing each woman to be who she wants to be, to be who she was made to be, not who everybody has told her she should be.

SPEAKER_02 24:46

And um And it's like a process for the nervous system, right? Because you get there and your nervous system is sort of like and then she sort of she set shows you different ways to move.

SPEAKER_00 24:58

And that's where the movement comes in.

SPEAKER_02 24:59

And then you start, and then and then it just starts moving. It's like the energy starts moving, and the more you shoot, the more confident you feel. And by the end, they're just like, Yes, I'm a model. Yes, I hear that a lot. Be a model. That's very true, that's very true. Okay, so it's uh so it's common that women don't want to wear lingerie.

SPEAKER_00 25:22

Um, yeah, it's com or that they want to wear more than just lingerie. Yeah. So you'll see pieces um well, like this here that's behind me. This is from Jenny Montana, a local designer. Um, that with a pair of jeans and a spaghetti strap tank top, a silky tank top, or any a solid, just that can be so sexy and so stunning. And sometimes for women, that's a great place to start. And then they have all these other things that they want to wear, and we can do it. Um, sometimes I had a session with a woman who was having uh mastectomy because she had just been diagnosed with breast cancer, and she's going, she was moving fast, so we just and she was of um Pakistani descent. That was not comfortable for her culturally to strip down to her undies, but it was comfortable to have a blazer and a bra and undo the blazer and let some of the bra show and to be just really sexy. She was incredibly sexy, and there the all those images are private. She's not from this area, so nobody here knows her. She she came from afar to do this, and um that was amazing. I I wish I could show those because they are so sexy, but she never was in lingerie. She had a little cocktail dress, she had jeans and a button-up white shirt, like a men's shirt with the sleeve rolled up, and then she could play with the buttons and reveal what she wanted. It's not necessary for it to be lingerie. Um, in fact, for many women, lingerie is uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_02 27:08

And what and sh what she told me in our first meeting is because I was like, I'm more, you know, athletic, I'm not very um, like I don't ever feel feminine. And she's like, Well, actually, I've seen you around town, and you do have femininity, like your girl. And she, and I was like, and she I don't even remember what she said, but she's like, I do see you as feminine. And I was just like, Oh, oh my gosh. So you do sort of help people, um, you bring that out, and then also you you can see people, you can see outfits on people because sometimes. Sometimes because I was like, I don't even know what I'd wear to this shoe. Like I when I met with her, I had no idea. Um, and then that's when you adding in the that yellow piece. Yes, yeah, she's like, Well, you should try this lacy yellow piece, and I'm like, uh well, that will not tomorrow me. And then I tried it on and it was it was gorgeous. And she showed me photos of how it captures the light and the wind. Yeah. So even if you don't have the vision but you have the yearning for something like this, um, I do feel like you really do are able to hold someone's hand.

SPEAKER_00 28:21

That's part of every package is um you don't have to do a mood board, you can do a mood board if you want. You did a mood board, which really helped to get us to the playing in the woods, yes, and and the location. But sometimes the mood board is about what do I want to wear or what what do I want to feel. But my whole goal and a part of every package is that I'm going to help you achieve what you want. And my philosophy is be generous with yourself and dream big because you never know what's possible. I mean, if somebody came to you a year ago and said, You're gonna do this gorgeous shoot on the side of a cliff, looking out over the mountains and then into the valley with this beautiful sunset behind you, and you're gonna be wearing all these different clothes, and you probably would have said, How? Yeah, but how are the logistics of that ever gonna work? Where are we gonna do that? But there are places to do those kinds of things here, and and if it's the same thing with my senior photo shoots. Sometimes I just have to tell the kid, dream big and let's see. The worst that can happen is we ask somebody and they say no.

SPEAKER_02 29:31

And I I feel like that's life. That's a lesson, uh, a message for life. Yeah, absolutely. Um so the key thing that you know sort of hooked me in was when she said, Yeah, we can hike out up in the mountains and do photo because you know, I'm always out outside. So she said, Um, like the studio is wonderful, and I was I I was like, Yeah, and then she's like, Well, I have these spots out in the mountains. Yeah, and then I was like, Done, done, deal, to capture me. Like, I've had friends over the years say, like, you should do a show photo shoot outside, like you're always outside. Why aren't you doing like do something that's authentic to you? And so um that was amazing, and she has spots all over that so you can sort of pick the mood right if you want, if you want to hike.

SPEAKER_00 30:19

Sometimes the hiking is good because it gets the adrenaline going, but it also releases endorphins to have done that so you're a little bit more relaxed by the time we get to wherever we're gonna do. Um, but there are some women who it's like, I don't hike, I don't like to hike, I don't want to hike. But I love to go on picnics or other places with beautiful views, so I want that. Um, and so then I have a couple that we can just drive to. Then you get back in the car, you warm up while I drive to the next little spot a quarter mile away, and we do that, and um, it's very possible to make that work for all women. They just have to be willing to say, This is what I want, here are my limitations, and here's where I can really go big. And then we just match all that up with a plan for them.

SPEAKER_02 31:08

And you did match it up. She even, because I told her like I hike almost every day, I'm out there, and then she's like, Okay, well, this is a this is a big hike. And I my ego is like, no, it will, it will be fine. But we're did that hike is like literally straight up the mountain to this huge rock like outcropping.

SPEAKER_00 31:29

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 31:29

I mean, that was a tough hike, and she was like ahead of me on the way up, on the weight. I'm like, woman.

SPEAKER_00 31:37

Well, I was way down. I was moving fast because we had spelled that carcass, and I did not it was getting dark, and I did not want to be near a carcass in the dark in Grizzly Country. I forgot country. That was my so I was I was like, I know I'm moving fast. I hope she can keep it.

SPEAKER_02 31:53

She was she was so the joke with my friends is like, slow down, Teresa. Can you slow down? And I'm like, this woman is just like running down the mountain, but now I know yeah, that carcass.

SPEAKER_00 32:04

I wasn't panicked, I just was like, the suit, the sooner we're back away from this, where you can't smell it at all, and it's not attracting any bears, the better. And just yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:18

So that rock, so we get up there, and of course, I picked all like summer outfits, and it's May, but it's like in the evening, a little bit of storm clouds in the background. I mean, it was gorgeous. Yes, it was it was so beautiful, yes, and we got amazing photos, but you'll see in the videos here that most of the time I'm like shaking, like I'm literally my whole body is shaking uh because of the cold. But she brought some outfits that were warmer, so we ended with those. Yeah. Um, but I have to say that I the whole process, like I started off pretty darn nervous and pretty, you know, constricted. Um, and you even said you're like, you're oh, let's just give it 20 minutes and you're gonna feel you're gonna feel more connected. And um, and then suddenly I was like in my own world, right? I'm like in my home. I'm in the in my Montana Mountains, which really are where I'm rooted. And then she found out that I like to dance. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:18

I was gonna say that was kind of the turning point for you. It's like, just do some freeform dance and let me see what that looks like. But that also educates me for the next outfit. This is how she moves naturally. So let's now put her in places and prompts that allow her to make those movements without any constrictions. That's I mean, you know, that's some of that is that gift, or is that just paying attention to the feedback and and allowing it to control what my next moves are?

SPEAKER_02 33:48

I would say it's a gift, personally. Um yeah, so then you know me, once I started dancing, it was like game over, right?

SPEAKER_00 33:55

Because that just that's for me that sort of centers me and brings Well, and even in your more power outfit where you we had you actually sit and stuff, but you still that dancing informed me about how you might sit in a way that's reflective of who you are and not what other people expect.

SPEAKER_02 34:15

Yeah. So um, and I've even had like the there is uh my friend's little 12-year-old son saw some of the photos and he's like, Well, you want to like a famous photo shoot, or what's happening here? Um and then he's like, Is that you or is that your daughter? And I'm like, and my daughter's like, Oh, thank you, that's a compliment. That's oh I know. So um, so yeah, you offer these outdoor shoots, you offer the indoor shoots. Um, and when and I don't know, let's just let's sort of I want to think back to the our shoot that we did and anything. I did want to mention, you know, we did discuss the fact that that whole process we shot for like two hours, right?

SPEAKER_00 34:56

Or it was right up right up at the last bit of light. And I I don't so I as uh we did you did a package that includes some branding work for you as well. So your pricing was different and you weren't looking for an album. But in my normal structure for the intimate portraiture, it's a session and that includes all the planning and studio wardrobe and all of that stuff, and then you buy your prints separate. But the session does not ever have a time limit on it because one Well I mean unless it gets dark. Well, yes, if we're going to be a sort of time.

SPEAKER_02 35:39

We're shooting again in the studio.

SPEAKER_00 35:41

But I mean, if you had if you came, if I have a I have a woman who's coming into the studio in a week. She's coming in at 11 o'clock after getting her hair and makeup done. I've cleared my calendar until four. There's no way she's gonna go five hours. But I am prepared to work with her until we both feel like we have a complete gallery. It needs to, she needs to feel like, and usually at a between three to four hours, they'll be like, I really think we've done everything I expected or wanted.

SPEAKER_02 36:15

And I mean, to be honest, you get into it. She gets really, she's like, listen, her mind and her creative, your creative side, sh will just start. I get into the zone and she gets into the zone and she's like, just one more photo. Let's just try this. Oh, wait, hold on. But I noticed that that's when you really start getting super creative with the ideas. Like, that's when we got some of the the amazing like um sunset photos with the trees with framings and that. Yes, and it's like a triangle, and then we got the tree. Yeah, then we got the ones in the trees. I don't even know. You guys will see these, but I don't even know what to do with all these. Like, I'm like, do I frame them? I do we put do we put them all over? I don't, I don't know, but um, I do have to say it's like how I am walking away from the experience, just feeling like you cap you were able to capture me, my authentic self. And I I'm just like, how do you do that? Because it's not like now, even my friends, all my friends out there, they're like, Well, yeah, that is so you, like with the photo of me in the white dress and like all the trees, and that because I'm just such a earth baby, right?

SPEAKER_00 37:34

Right, and so it had a little bit of witchiness to it and a whole lot of fairy in nature, but you allowed yourself to do that, and it's my job is not to create that for you, it's to create a space where you can allow yourself to do it, and then to be the logistics of making what will allow you to do that happen. And that's I mean But you're the conduit, you know. I'm not trying to say I don't have any talent or anything in there, I'm not that humble. Yeah, but I'm human, I like that. Yeah. In that way. Thank you. I'm very glad to me that's like that's success. But that success has to be client forward, and that's you know, I said I broke from what I was trained right from the beginning, and what I was trained is very formulaic. But if I'm asking women to not be performative, I cannot ask put them in a formulaic place. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:40

So you have to come in open.

SPEAKER_00 38:42

I have to come in incredibly open, incredibly open, and and also really prepared based on the consultation that I have with women in advance. I need to come in with every little thing that I noticed about her. Sometimes my notes are just a word here and a word there, but I need all of that to be fresh in my mind. There was a time where I would put up words around the studio to remind me of what she wanted. Now I've kind of outgrown that and I can I can integrate what they wanted a little bit more easily without having to do that.

SPEAKER_02 39:17

But and how special is that for someone to pay that much attention to you? Because I feel as a women, um, you know, all these little details are just so missed all the time. So it's so nice. Like I was we she she sat me down, you sat me down in the meeting, first meeting, and she showed me the Pinterest board. And I'm like never been on Pinterest. I know. I don't know if that bad okay. No, so I only use it for work. Okay, and so and then we were like looking, and and then so what she did is she captured photos similar, like she remembered those the ideas or the feelings of those and the essence, and that's where our storyboard was sort of born.

SPEAKER_00 39:58

Yes, yeah, exactly. And you added to it, I try to seed it with things that I think are I try to see if we use a Pinterest board, not everybody does, but if we do, I try to seed it with images that I think are in line with what the woman has expressed. I if I can bring them from my own gallery and ones that I'm allowed to share, then I do. And if I have to go searching for another photographer who I think brings in the element she's talked about, I can do that. Okay. Um, but then this is a great place for her to be able to say, not that one, not that one, you missed it on that one, and here are the things that I like instead. And then I invite women to tell me, what do you like about this photo? Because you might love it. She might put it in there because she likes the makeup. And I can look at it and say, Well, I see something different here, and that's not really what I expected from you. And she can say, Oh no, no, it's just the makeup. Oh, okay, that makes sense. She she liked this part of the makeup, or she liked the fingernails, or she liked just the mood. And it's not her body type, it's not anything like my studio or anything, but she but just that whole mood that the photo puts off. How can we recreate that mood with the tools that we have?

SPEAKER_02 41:12

And you had to tell me that because I was like, Well, I don't know if this photo is gonna like look, I can't ever look like that. And she's like, No, it's the mood. Yeah, it's the mood, and we did, we captured all the it was the mood. We were building mood with the Pinterest boards.

SPEAKER_00 41:26

Yeah, a lot of mood. It's just, but it's only one part of my communication and our communication. Yeah, and for some women it doesn't work, but if I don't offer lots of different ways for us to communicate, and I only offer one way, for some women it's not gonna work, and then I don't get the communication that I need in order to bring out in them what they want brought out. So I just try to give lots of ways for us to connect. Yeah, and she's good at it.

SPEAKER_02 41:57

So, how many of your clients, because a lot of times with when you're getting your photos taken, the photographer has all the rights, but how many of your clients ask, like, will you please not share these on social? And I just want to say that that is an option. She was so nice about it. Um, because I was like, you know, a lot of these I don't know if I just want to be shared without permission. Um, and of course, now that I have them, I'm like, oh yeah, we should just share those everywhere. So that is not uncommon. See, right? As soon as you see them, at first you just like have in your eyes, mind eye, like, I don't want anyone to see it, and then they look so authentic to you, me, that I'm like, well, anyone could see it, it's fine.

SPEAKER_00 42:43

So I'm gonna use technical language because I have a lawyer background. I own the copyright for all of those images, so nobody can use those images for their profit. You couldn't say, This is gonna make a great movie poster, I'm gonna sell it to my friend who's developing a movie about a woman lost in the woods, and I want, and and um we couldn't do that. They would have to approach you, they would have to approach me. However, I do not need my clients to be my models for my public portfolio. Some women want me to, some women are just like pushing me, yeah. Please use my photos. That's that makes me feel empowered. That's a minority of the women. When they do, I'm so excited. Um but most women are um don't use any, and there's another small group, so say 20% say, Oh, you can use them, and 20% say, I'll choose some that you can use, but don't use these other ones. And then the 60% are don't use any of them. I don't want anybody to know. And I'm fine with that because this was about her and how empowering is it if she gets these great images that she loves. But they're private to her, and I start making them that just completely destroys every bit of work that we just did together. So I I'm very careful about that. Um, and it's I have models who are always if I have something I want to try, or if I do something with a client, I'm like, oh, I haven't done this before, but I really like it, and I want to incorporate some of this into more of my photography, I can call up a model. And honestly, I've got women who will model for me for free. They just like the way it makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 44:31

I can I can see that now.

SPEAKER_00 44:33

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:34

So that makes sense. So I just wanted to make sure that you know that too. So it's not like it's an automatic thing because I have gotten flack from some um photographers and they've shared photos, and I'm like, but I said no to that, you know.

SPEAKER_00 44:50

I shared what you put, I shared like you did a story or a post, and I did share that on the show. Oh, you shared that?

SPEAKER_02 44:57

Oh, she shared that, but you made it. Yeah, exactly, exactly. And we had this conversation. Yeah. And now that I have the photos, they're just they're so amazing. Like I was looking at the one last night with the the one where it's the outfit you brought and it and it's like tied up and it's oh yeah, and it's like glowing with a triangle. Yeah. And I'm like, where can I show this? This is an amazing art right here. That's a very artistic piece. That's um we'll put it up here because you guys should see it. It's it's that awesome. Um okay. Um, I was gonna say, let's move your hair back just because I think it might be hitting there. There we go. Just there. I want everyone to hear you.

SPEAKER_00 45:41

Old lady hair with a gray just booms it out everywhere.

SPEAKER_02 45:44

The gray does? Yeah. Well, we're straight, both of us. Yeah. My aunt always says, like, you're straight. I'm like, yep. Um, okay. What role does softness and embodiment play in confidence, or is that more my story? This softness and embodiment.

SPEAKER_00 46:03

I well, that is definitely your story, and it depends on the woman as to what role it plays. Some women come in and their whole story, their whole public persona is softness. And for them, what they're looking for is the strength and the power, and they want to cultivate some of that. For other women like you, you feel like I run around with a purpose all the time. And there's this part of me that is softer, more ethereal, more magical that people don't see because I'm getting stuff done. I'm writing contracts and you know, showing houses, making appointments, managing calendars, doing all of that stuff. Yeah, um, so each woman comes seeking that which is a match for her. It's like if she has a public persona, she needs that private part to fit into that. And I'm my job is to find that. So um some people I've had women come and they're like, I don't think I'm powerful. And I'm like, I've seen what you're doing with your kids, you're powerful. But it's done in a way that is not stereotypical for power, for a powerful woman. It's not so let's let's kind of explore that. So that like that crown exercise with the other woman, I said that she used the crown as a motherhood thing. For that, for women who for where motherhood is where they think their strength is and everything else that they feel kind of soft on, or um, just bring it out. Other women, it's like I have all this strength, but I want people to know, I want them to see that I am not invincible, and you gotta be careful with me from time to time. And it's not okay to um just treat me like I'm the durable mat at your front door that you can wipe your feet on and go on, and I'll always be there. You just wash me off and send me out again. And that is so it's each woman, and you know, embodiment it sounds like it's not a different story.

SPEAKER_02 48:24

Every woman, like I came in and said, I'm not very feminine, and you're like, Well, you are, but so every woman comes sort of in saying, Well, maybe that's not what I am, and is that what they're trying to capture?

SPEAKER_00 48:38

No, some women come in like you, saying, I have a part of me that I want to show that I don't think it's seen very often, even if I'm only showing myself. Other women come in saying, I am celebrating something really big, and I just want some images where I have the freedom to celebrate and not feel like I'm gonna intimidate all of the people who didn't have the same accomplishment or not that whole intimidation story. Yeah, like strong women are so intimidating. Yes. Um, so every woman's story is different. And I I said this recently, I'm gonna try to say because I said it so well, and I want to try to get it right. A woman comes to me saying, I just got this promotion, I'm doing this, I've always wanted to do this, I've always just wanted to feel that sensual and sexy, and and I've been a little shy about it, and we have a great time. Another woman comes in and says, My husband left me. I had to go back to school and figure things out, and he has just said the cruelest things about about me to me and to my children and to his new person. And I need to see the beauty in me because he's been tearing it down for years. An absolutely gorgeous women. Both of those women need me to see them, but they need me to see different things. And they need to get from the session something completely different, even though the photography skills are the same, the relational skills and the relational reflection in the photos needs to be different for each of them. And that's that's where I said I just I jumped out of the box of this is the this is the one that they will buy because they want their husband to see it, and this is the one that they will buy because they love it, and this is the one that they will buy because they want their daughter to feel that way someday.

SPEAKER_02 50:35

I mean, because ultimately is it even about men?

SPEAKER_00 50:39

Not in my studio. Yeah, I mean I say they're an afterthought. They're not an afterthought, they're an extra thought.

SPEAKER_02 50:46

Or or like a or should we say attracting? Like not even men is are the photos aren't for attracting here.

SPEAKER_00 50:56

They attracting they aren't for somebody else's sensual pleasure. Yeah, exactly. They are for the woman in the photo to have felt good making them and felt good looking at them.

SPEAKER_01 51:08

Feel good looking at them. The idea.

SPEAKER_00 51:10

Yes, yeah. The fact that your partner, male or female, is going to love the photos, comes not from that I use some formula to find photos. It comes from the fact that they see you in them. They see the you that they know and love because very rarely can you hide that, all of that from a partner, whatever it is that you're hiding from the rest of the world. Your partner is gonna know, at least have a hint is there. And I have had many partners come to me and say, Oh, this was her. You really captured her. I never would have thought of posing her this way, I never would have thought of her in those clothes, but somehow this is her, and you did that, and I am so grateful for that. But that's why they're an extra thought. They're not, we're not in the studio saying, what's he gonna like next? And and that's you know, the woman who shows up with the hockey shirt, the hockey jersey that she hates, but he loves, and she's gonna wear it just for him. It's like okay, if she showed up with it, I'll take pictures of her. But I can see that. But it's this much time of this much. And I can see you sort of melding that energy into the. I I try to, but I also don't it's like, let's spend time on something you enjoy wearing. That's really important to me.

SPEAKER_02 52:32

I mean, from this conversation, what I've gathered is that femininity is just so broad. Do you think that femininity overall is misunderstood after sort of working with it and helping to bring it out in women?

SPEAKER_00 52:51

I in some in many ways I do think that. And I don't want to ever put women in a box. But I think having experienced so many women, you've probably experienced this as well. When women get together, there is something that bonds us together. But it is not something visual, it is not the way that we talk, it it's something that you in your vernacular, it's some is an energy that men do not have. Correct. And it it's a spirit that they just they cannot and they can't embody. Women can. That that part, I think all women have some of that. No matter what their life experience is, they all have some of that. Where we begin to think I'm not very feminine is when we are comparing ourselves to some media standard that has been thrown out there, or some person that we hold on a pedestal that probably wishes they weren't on that pedestal. And we're saying, I'm not like her, so I can't possibly be very feminine. I grew up in a time, and you did too, I'm a little older than you, but you did to a certain extent too, where feminism had a really strong message. It was at and it still is political, and there are still certain issues that feminism goes around. But it was responding to women having been put in a box for a long time in traditional roles for women and not having access to other women. And um, I think that there they went so far in that pendulum swing that they began to also tell women how they're supposed to be. And if you weren't here, you should be all the way over here. But there's all this room in here for women, and women should be allowed to be what they want. If a woman wants to be a stay-at-home mom, she still has great value. If she wants to not have children and be a partner in a law firm and making big deals, she still has great value, and she's still a woman in both those cases. And the idea that we're telling women she has to be one or the other, or it's this part of your life is more valuable because you were doing this part, whether it's you're more valuable when you're mothering or you're more valuable when you're professionaling, it doesn't. That's just bullshit. Can I swear on your podcast?

SPEAKER_02 55:21

You can do whatever you want on my podcast, can't we? Okay, so I feel like, did you feel like you I feel like the femininity swang so far on in my life that I just came out with wanting to represent this like hardness?

SPEAKER_00 55:38

I think that that was could very easily have happened, and I think part of it is how you grew up. I grew up with a really strong personality mom.

SPEAKER_02 55:46

And your mom, that is so insightful that she was like, you can be soft. If there was anything that you wish every woman deeply knew about herself, what would it be?

SPEAKER_00 56:00

That she is valuable, that she has worth just as she is. She does not need to change who or how she is in order to be of great worth. I love that.

SPEAKER_02 56:14

Because everyone has their own essence, like their own gifts that they can bring to the table. Yes. No matter what it is.

SPEAKER_00 56:21

And let's face it, every woman at times questions for value. I I question my value, and I'm trying to teach women about this. There are times where I'm I just don't think I have it. And that's the the when you know it or the company I keep sometimes too.

SPEAKER_01 56:38

Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:39

Um, and it but when you know you have worth, then you make braver decisions and you follow your heart better, and you try new things, and you accept trying something and it didn't work out, and trying again t with a little different tweak in order to get to where you want to go. But if you don't think you have worth, then you don't even have the motivation to try.

SPEAKER_02 57:03

And I have to say doing a photo shoot with you gave me even a stronger sense of worth. And um definitely just having those photos and able to really show my essence throughout all of my uh throughout all my different stories and whatever it is, um, does it really help me feel more worthy or more authentic. And so I want to thank you for that so much. And thank you for the work you're doing for women everywhere. It's so needed at this time. And if final question is what ripple of goodness are you hoping to leave in the world through the work you do?

SPEAKER_00 57:42

I am hoping to leave an imprint on the women that I interact with that says, I see you and I still think you're worthy. That's the imprint I would like to leave. Whether I have my camera in my hand or I just meet them in the grocery store.

SPEAKER_02 58:04

I love that.

SPEAKER_00 58:05

Yeah, I love that and we need it.

SPEAKER_02 58:08

Women need that right now.

SPEAKER_00 58:10

We do. Yeah. Yeah. It's important. Thank you so much. Thank you. Well done. You're you're a gift. You're a gift. So thank you. What you see and get excited about is as important as what I see and get excited about. I I can see that in your passion and your desire, in everything from healing bodies to healing spirits. Wow, that's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 58:40

Okay. Well, we'll do it again. We'll do it. This isn't really ending because we're doing another photo shoot.