Surrogacy Journey into Motherhood with Crystal

Hosted by Elsa, 'It's a Circus' dives into Crystal's unique journey into motherhood through surrogacy amidst the challenges posed by a spinal injury and infertility. Crystal shares her experiences with finding a surrogate, building a deep relationship with her, and the emotional dynamics of surrogacy. The conversation covers practical parenting tips, navigating external judgments, and balancing career with new motherhood. Emphasizing community support, Crystal provides heartfelt advice on managing parenthood's stresses and finding harmony in life's adjustments.

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Transcript

Crystal Podcast

Elsa: Yay! Welcome, Crystal, to our podcast. Um, I am so excited to dive in. So I'd love, like, your mommahood stats. So, how long have you been a mom for? How many kiddos? All that good stuff. 

Crystal: My daughter was born in July of 2023. So I've been a mom for 19 months, one baby, one little girl. Hopefully we'll have one more eventually. But, um, right now I'm just, just one for one. 

Elsa: [00:01:00] I love it. Amazing. Um, well, one of the reasons I'm so excited to chat with you today is your, kind of, journey into motherhood. Um, it is a little unique, so I would love for you to share your story with us. Oh

Crystal: Yeah. So I, um, never wanted to be a mom. Um, I was like very anti kid. I like really loved my freedom and I loved my career. And then the pandemic hit and I was like, Oh my gosh, I actually really like being at home with my husband. And so we decided that we wanted to build our family and we had two really interesting things that we ran into the first just being that we couldn't conceive.

Um, we, there was just no way that we, we just didn't work and the second being that I got in a really bad car accident when I was, uh, in 2015, the beginning of 2015, and I broke my spine in 3 places and so that made it really, really scary for me to carry on and I had, you know, a Basically went to multiple [00:02:00] specialists here in UCSF, and they said, you know, you can, you can do it once.

Um, we wouldn't recommend you doing it more than once. And there's, you know, you're not going to be very present for the last trimester. No, nor for the 4th trimester. It would be really difficult on you and probably the baby and your husband. So we recommend you exploring options. So we ended up deciding to go the surrogacy route, which was while really difficult was actually Um, and it ended up being just like the most beautiful, amazing thing in the world once everything sort of fell into place.

Elsa: Wow. That is incredible. Did, were you in contact with, uh, the person that was carrying your baby?

Crystal: Yes. So I found the agency actually, we interviewed about six agencies and I ended up finding the agency through somebody that I work with. Um, they had worked with this agency. Um, your fertility advocate had worked with a gay couple, um, at Google where I was working. And when I connected with Megan, who runs that agency, like I just like cried immediately.

Like she was amazing. [00:03:00] Um, and she made me feel so amazing and safe and she connected me with another Megan, another woman named Megan and the second Megan is the one who carried, um, McKenzie and Megan and I texted probably every day. Like she, we were like sisters. We still are. Honestly, we text. Probably weekly now.

Um, but yeah, she's like amazing. And, you know, she would text me like, Oh, I just had this like delicious salad and like McKinsey, like really love the chicken, but I can tell she doesn't really like the onions and like stuff like that. Like it was like really cute. Like she would give me these like really cute updates of like, Oh my gosh.

Like whenever the dogs bark, like McKinsey starts kicking, like she, I can tell she's going to love dogs like things like that.

Elsa: Oh my gosh. That's amazing. And amazing that you are still staying in contact with her too. Ugh.

Yeah. I mean, she's just. She's just like such an angel of a human. She's had four of her own kids. And after her first, um, kid, she told her husband, she's like, I want to do three. And then I wanted my fourth to be a surrogate surrogacy because she's like, pregnancy was so [00:04:00] easy for me. And I want to be able to like, give this to somebody else.

And then they, they ended up having four. And then her fifth was like, it was like, so crazy. She's like, thank you for like making, I've always wanted this dream to come true. And like you and Jake are amazing. Um, you know, I'm so glad I was able to do this with you guys. So it was, it was really just like a beautiful experience and her husband was amazing.

Her kids were amazing. Like it was just like, it was like unreal. I'm like how well it all worked out.

Oh my gosh, that's amazing. When, I mean, before you went this route, did you have any like preconceived notions that just like total myths or now that you've been through the process and potentially you've heard something? What are some of those that maybe just aren't real or aren't realistic when you're working with Sarah Cassini?

Crystal: Yeah. I think that the two big things that, that like were the myth bustings for me is like the first, I think the natural thing is like, well, what if [00:05:00] they get attached to the baby? Right.

Elsa: Sure.

Crystal: It's so funny because on the flip side, when, when a woman is, is going through the process of potentially becoming a surrogate, one of the first things she said is like, well, what if they decide they don't want the baby?

It's like so funny on either side where it's like, well, I don't want that. Like, I don't want to keep this baby. Like I have babies. Like I don't want another baby. And then on the other side, it's like, well, what if she doesn't want to give me a baby? So it's so funny because like, there, you know, there's some really stringent psychological profiling that goes into it.

Um, our agency only accepts like 10 percent of applicants to be surrogates. So,

Elsa: Okay.

Crystal: you know, it's, it's like, it's a really specific mindset that they have to be in, but it's like definitely one that's like, I'm, it's almost as if like, I'm giving you this amazing gift. Like, I don't want to keep it for myself.

Cause I would never want this thing because I already have it myself, but I want to give it to you. So I think that's number 1 and the number 2 is actually a big part and all agencies are different, but within our agency,

Elsa: hmm.

Crystal: they think that they need to pass is a financial background check and they [00:06:00] can't have any like outstanding debt outside of like, it's like some student loans, a car payment and a house payment, um, because they don't want money to be a contributing factor into any of the decision making.

Supposed to be this bonus and a lot of them will actually either not like necessarily forego the fee, but like maybe put it into like a trust fund for their kids or like a college fund or something like it's not like they don't see it as much as income. So, um, I thought that was like a really interesting piece of it as well.

Elsa: Mm hmm. Yeah, that is, that is like so fascinating. Um, were you able to um, Megan or do you have like a relationship with her now?

Crystal: So they live up in Oregon. They're on the coast, right on the border of California and Oregon. So we actually were able to drive up, we're in Northern California. So we were able to drive up to, um, when McKinsey was born and drive her home the next day. Um, but they're not necessarily close enough for us to see, but we do talk all the time.

We absolutely like text all the time and I sent her [00:07:00] pictures and she sends me pictures of how her kids are doing and how her husband's doing.

Elsa: Mm hmm. That's amazing. So what were those like first few moments with her like?

Crystal: It was so incredible because in the moment I was really. I was really devastated that like, I wasn't the one giving birth. Um, but Megan was so amazing. And the room was like, the whole day was really magical. It was July 21st. It was the day the Barbie movie came out. There was lots of like feminine energy in the air,

Elsa: Ah, I

Crystal: like at 6 AM, her husband called and was like, It baby's coming only female doctors, only female nurses.

My daughter's coming into the world. It was just like this really. And I just felt like for a moment, I was like, I wish this was me. And my husband was like, don't like get that out of your head. Just like be in the moment. And Megan was like, fine. She was like directing traffic. She's like, make sure you're standing over there.

Like, make sure Jared, you're getting pictures. And McKinsey came out and they handed her to me. And it was just like this instant, like, Oh, this is my baby. Like.

Elsa: Mm

Crystal: It was just like kind of the [00:08:00] world stopped and it's felt like that since then and it was just Yeah. I can't describe it. Like all of the anxiety I had just like washed away the second they put her in my arm,

Elsa: Oh my god. That is such a beautiful story, Crystal. That

Crystal: it was really wonderful. There was actually a nurse, um, who was on duty overnight with Megan and stayed, even though she was off, stayed through the delivery because she's like, we've actually never had like a surrogacy delivery here. And she's like, I just think

Elsa: hmm,

Crystal: whole thing is so beautiful. And you're the relationship between you guys is so beautiful.

And like, I just want to like be here to help you guys through it and be there for it. It was like, It was just amazing. Her name was Molly. It's an incredible nurse, but we were just very lucky.

Elsa: oh my gosh, what a beautiful story and what an incredibly beautiful experience, um, that is amazing. Is there any type of like advice or anything you would yourself back then, like, be in that moment or any like additional advice [00:09:00] for going through that entire process?

Crystal: Yeah. I think the advice I would have given myself is break it into chunks and take one step at a time because it's such a, it's such a long, expensive, overwhelming process. It's really easy to just get discouraged. Um, and so I would just say like, just take it one step at a time. And the other thing I would say is I was really.

Like I was, I was, I was, I held a lot of shame around surrogacy. I still do sometimes. And so I just didn't, like, I didn't want to go shopping. Cause I felt like everyone was looking and like, Oh, she doesn't have a belly. Or like, I didn't want to like wear a hospital gown because I was like, I'm not actually like giving birth and like all this stuff.

And I felt like I was actually very shameful of my body. And now I wish I had just like, honestly, just been like. tits out with like skin to skin contact right away and like gone and done the shopping and like who the fuck cares who's like if you're going to judge me like [00:10:00] you know what I mean like get fucked you know like I wish I would have just like been more less self conscious on the whole thing.

Elsa: Ugh. I mean, it's the power of shame and and the journey into motherhood. I think there's so many layers that are there, and it's interesting that that was the layer that you experienced and one that you talked about. Was there anything. outside of yourself that maybe was making you feel that way or something that was happening um for you that kind of gave you this unnecessary shame.

Crystal: You know I think we live in a really interesting time for surrogacy because there's sort of a two fold with it where there's there's For civilians to go through it, it's in a lot of ways more accessible than it's ever been, which is like beautiful because there are

Elsa: Mhm.

Crystal: wonderful women out there like Megan who want to help, you [00:11:00] know, make families and there are people like me who want families and adoption has become a not so viable option anymore.

I'm not saying adoption is not great. It is. It's just not like where it used to be in the, you know, the 80s and before. Um, and then on the. So there's that, and there's more sort of civilians going through it. And the civilian process, I say civilians, but like the civilian process for surrogacy is very specific, very intense.

We had to go through multiple rounds of psychological testing. She did. It's really expensive. It's really tough. Then you see a lot of celebrities doing it. And there are some celebrities doing it for all the right reasons, for the same reasons that civilians are doing it. And then there's some celebrities that are doing it.

And you know, as they're going through the process, they would never get approved. Like you look at Chloe and Tristan, like our, Even our, um, IBF clinic

Elsa: Yeah.

Crystal: not sign off on surrogacy until they had seen like, that Jake and I had been married for at least 3 years. They had to see all of our financial records.

Jake and I each had to go through separate evaluations and then an [00:12:00] evaluation together by, by like a, uh, Uh, psychologists of their choice and their approval and Megan had to go through it because they basically want to make sure that like, if Megan's going to put herself through this, that we are a serious family unit and like, she can have that like fulfillment that comes with being a circuit, somebody like a Chloe and interested would have never gotten approved.

Right. Where it's like, Oh, we just broke up, but we're back together 2 months later. And like, Chloe doesn't really want to carry and blah, blah, blah. And then we break up again,

Elsa: Yep.

Crystal: like, you can kind of pay to get out of that. And so I think that. Right. Causes a lot of like people that's the public examples they see they don't see the like everyday civilian examples and like what the process is and so I think a lot of external judgment comes from that because in the same way that like we kind of project whatever's going on in pop culture on to like just regular people a lot of that was projected onto us.

So there were definitely people in our orbit that were not supportive of it or were judgmental or, you know, just like, oh, well, it's because you don't want to do this. So, like, you should [00:13:00] just try it anyway. Like, even if the risk is there, it's not like you're going to die. And that's like, okay, maybe I don't want to be temporarily paralyzed.

Like, you know what I mean? So there's just like those external factors. I do think it's helpful that more people publicly are doing it because I think it's helping to destigmatize it, but when people are doing it for the wrong reasons, or like Elon Musk, like doing it to have like a 15th child, like that's where it starts to kind of get a bad name, bad rap.

Elsa: Oh my god. I mean, seriously, I mean, what a group to be into and to kind of have to navigate. I mean, something that, you know, I think happens, um, in all areas of our life, but I think there's a particular soft spot is the, um, just the judgment and criticism that happens externally. As a woman becomes a mom or you know, a dad becomes a, or a, a man becomes a, a dad or a parent just becomes a [00:14:00] parent. There is kind of like the, like doors open and all of a sudden everybody feels that they can come in with opinions. Like, I've done this before. I, you know, I have an opinion because I'm the best. Parent in the world. Like, who knows? But that type of, um, criticism that is out there is just on another level.

I think specifically when we enter this time in our lives. And, you know, I'm curious from your point of view, were you able to find community or were you able to connect with other people that had gone through the same thing that could Help kind of hold you hand, hold your hand through it. Um, or is there a, you know, a, a need for some sort of support as people kind of move through this journey?

Crystal: You know, I was [00:15:00] actually really fortunate in that, um, there were a couple other people in my orbit going through the same process. Some of them like same sex gay couples, um, that, you know, like needed a surrogate in order to have, um, uh, you know, Genetic kids, and then another woman who I had worked with who had, um, had had an early, uh, her baby was born like 3 months early and only lived for like 20 days and then died.

And they basically said, if you get pregnant again, that's probably going to happen again. So she was going through the surrogacy process. So I was able to find some community there, which was. It was really great. My, my company had some really good forms and connected people, um, which I was really grateful for, but it was also surprised.

And like, just in general, like, once McKinsey was here, the mom group that kind of like magically appeared around me, whether it was like the group that I had joined in San Francisco or just.

Elsa: Mm-hmm

Crystal: Well, that I had known in my orbit, like once the kids here, it's kind of crazy how like women just sort of like pop out of [00:16:00] nowhere.

And like, how can I help you? What have you tried this? Like, what's going on here? And you're like, Oh, my gosh, you're being so nice. So I definitely think that like that community. Like, and it's a, it's a good way to show, like, to really suss out, like, who are the people in your life that are actually, like, care about you and aren't there to

Elsa: hmm.

Crystal: like, you can feel like comfortable and vulnerable with.

And I was, I was really like, pleasantly surprised with how that kind of appeared from both the surrogacy community and, and, and just in general parent.

Elsa: that is amazing. I do think that's true. I always, when I hear this, I always think about me and myself because group of friends, I was one of the last, if not the last, to have a kiddo. So I'm like, oh my gosh, I was very unaware. Very, very unaware of what anybody goes through, um, at any journey to become a parent. Um, so, you know. Tough times, man. It's, it's, it's [00:17:00] hard. Um, for you, and going through all of that, and now you have your sweet little baby, were you prepared? I mean, did you read all the books? Like, how did you prep yourself for the moment that she was going to be in your arms and be yours forever?

Crystal: Yeah, so I'm pretty type A, so I definitely read like a ton of books. And we also, um, some of the best money we spent was we had this woman who was this like amazing doula come over to our house like two weeks before she was born and just like teach us how to keep her alive. Um, and like teach us how to change a diaper and stuff.

And like, that was amazing. Um, so that we definitely prepared, but I don't think anything actually really prepares you for it. Like

Elsa: Okay.

Crystal: the kid is there, you're just like, Oh my God, this thing is so fragile and so nonsensical and can't respond to me and like, I have to keep it alive. It's amazing that we've survived as a species, but you know, I think I was as prepared as anybody could be.

[00:18:00] But I think the thing that prepares you the most, quite frankly, is. Age, like I'm very fortunate that, you know, I was able to wait until I was at a point in my career until I was at a point in my marriage where I was at a point with my finances where it made a lot of sense. I think, you know, when we look in, especially when we're sort of forcing women to carry pregnancies that they don't, they're not ready for,

Elsa: hmm.

Crystal: it's, that's like the toughest thing because like, you know, when she, I remember there was 1 Saturday night where like, she was just.

It's inconsolable. And so she would only sleep on me. And so it was like three in the morning and I was laying on the floor of the nursery. She's sleeping on me. I was like, this is not how I've spent most Saturday mornings when I've been up at 3 AM, but there's nowhere else I'd want to be right now. And I thinking about myself even a decade ago, I wouldn't have felt that way.

I would have felt really resentful. So I do think the best thing you can do to prepare is just like be in the right mindset and be in the right place in your life. And then everything else kind of falls into place.

Elsa: Ugh. I think that's such powerful advice. Um, it is true for [00:19:00] I'm hearing you say, is like, if you're the best version of yourself, you're gonna manage through this transition just fine. Um, and I think that is just so true. Yeah. Absolutely. Um, okay. So, you prepared. You read all the books. You had some, uh, classes with the doula. Love that. Anything else that prepped you or anything you felt that was valuable as you started that entry into parenthood that you would recommend for anyone? Or, thinking back to your old self, is there something else you wish you would have done?

Crystal: You know, I asked him just a lot of people advice, um, and I like was really good at organizing it and you know, you don't have to take any of that. You don't have to take anybody's advice, but just asking people and being open to it

Elsa: hmm.

Crystal: amazing because I had one girlfriend who recommended this mom's group that puts you in a cohort with moms who first time moms who are, uh, have babies within six weeks of you.

And [00:20:00] like, okay. That was one of the best pieces of advice I got. It was just offhanded. I was like, Hey, you were a San Francisco mom. Like, what would you recommend? And she listed off like four things. And that was one of them. I did that. So, um, like had another friend that was like, Oh, there's some positive, like whatever they are.

So I would just say, like, don't be afraid to ask advice. Don't feel like it's like a failure or you're saying you're not prepped. Um, and then what I actually did was took all the best advice and best things I've had, and I made it into a Google doc. And I've like, since like, just like, Shared that to everybody I know who's like having a kid where I'm like, you can take this or you don't have to, but like, these are the things that were really helpful.

So just don't be afraid to like ask advice or take it just because you're asking it doesn't mean you have to take it right. Like you can make your own decisions, but there's a lot of gems out there. Like the mom community is like really sharp.

Elsa: I know. I love that. Did you get any, uh, bad advice

Crystal: Can I get any bad advice?

Elsa: or unsolicited advice, maybe?

Crystal: I've got plenty of unsolicited device. Um, I would say the only, I don't think that there's anything that is bad advice, but [00:21:00] the thing, there was advice that I fundamentally didn't work for me and my family and my baby. And that's fine. And most of that was actually around, um, sleeping and eating.

Like, I was,

Elsa: Mm-hmm

Crystal: I was very, I wanted to be really strict about sleeping. We didn't, um, co sleep. So she, we never shared a room with her. Um, which is like very controversial to some people, but like, The space that my family and I needed, um, and, uh, that like worked for us. And like, for some people that was like very, very shocking.

Um, same thing, like we went hardcore baby led weaning for some people that was like really, really shocking. They didn't want to see the gagging. Like, and I totally get that. But for us,

Elsa: Yeah. Okay. I love that. for, uh, when you had the, uh. doula around? Did she also kind of give you like a heads up for like feeding and sleeping and all of that? And then how

Crystal: you know,

Elsa: your kind of like anchor in the ground? Like this is how we're gonna do [00:22:00] it.

Crystal: yeah, that's a good question. You know, she actually, the things that she posed to us that like helped anchor us was

Elsa: Yeah.

Crystal: it was so interesting. So when she. The first thing she did was like, we sat down in our living room, we have two dogs, the dogs got up on the couch with her and she's like, great, why don't we practice just how you're going to bring, you know, your daughter into the house.

And we're like, oh, we're just going to carry her in. And she said, okay, well, your dogs jumped on me when I came in the house. Do you think they're not going to jump on the baby? And we were like, oh, I guess we didn't think about that. And so she just like helped us actually frame parenthood within like our.

Our lives in our space, or she said, let's practice feeding the baby. Where do you think you're going to feed the baby? And we said, well, probably in the nursery. And she said, well, I would think that people that love their dogs enough that they would sit on the couch next to them and sit on their laps while they're talking to a stranger, we want to eat.

dinner together. So like, where do you eat? And we said, well, we eat here in the kitchen. And she's like, well, why don't we practice feeding her in the kitchen? Because that's what the family eats. So she did a [00:23:00] really good job of like contextualizing it within our family. And I think that helped in terms of just like setting the stage of like, there's actually no right or wrong way of doing anything.

You want to do it in the way that's like works for you and your family and however that works. So like. You know, us with like our dogs or whatever it is. Right. Um, I thought that was super helpful.

Elsa: Yeah. I think that is really helpful. Um, sometimes I feel like there is just this overwhelming piece of advice that like comes through from all the books, all the stuff we see on social, all the family, all the friends, all the people, you know, us. Um, was there anything that, uh, you and your husband did that just solidified it or Was it anything you had to work through to find what worked for you guys?

And have you changed anything? Or is it you kind of just stuck with it and it went with it?

Crystal: You know, I think she's always changing. So we're always changing for sure. Um, you know, I think the [00:24:00] best piece of advice I got from my mom was

Elsa: hmm.

Crystal: she saw me like. Take McKinsey out of Jake's hands once and I tell him like he was doing something wrong and she was like one never do that because he then will just stop doing things and then it'll all be on, you know, as long as they're fine.

And two, you have to put him first because like, if you guys don't put each other first, you're like One on one on one and that's not helpful. Like it's easier when it's like two on one, especially when it's like two on two. So like you guys need to figure it out amongst the two of you and then figure it out with her.

Don't figure it out with her and then figure it out amongst the two of you. And I think that we, I think we've done like a pretty decent job of that so far. And you know, we, my, my husband's a really, really good communicator, but like, it's actually like shocking. I like how much stronger it's made our relationship.

Like having her where I, I, I normally hear, and not to say it's not stressful, but I think like just that constant focus on the two of us, um, has been really important.

Elsa: yeah, [00:25:00] that is so beautiful and such a good piece of advice too. Um, what about care? So did you have any support right when she got there? Was it parents? Was it doulas? Was it night nurse? happened then? And then kind of what has been your journey from like a care standpoint?

Crystal: Yeah. So we were really lucky in so many ways. We, my, my parents came up from Southern California and they were here for six weeks, um, when she was born, which was great. Just having my mom close by one of my good friends, he was in Europe for the summer and so he let my parents stay in his apartment. Yeah.

Um. So it was great because they were here, but they, we still had our own space. So that was really grateful. We were really grateful for that. We had a night nanny lined up and, um, the first day actually I woke up and she was like in the crib and like a loose blanket. Um, and I was like, I just, yeah, like freaked out.

Elsa: Yeah.

Crystal: Um, which just kind of goes to show, like, just, there's not a lot of regulation. in terms of [00:26:00] like any sort of care, which is crazy. Um, so we, we ended up getting really lucky and I went to like a mom's group and we found a different night, um, night nanny. And so we ended up when she was like three weeks old, starting with somebody who was fantastic.

And we had her for four weeks, um, four days a week, which made like a huge difference in just like our mental wellbeing. Um, so that was really, that was really great. Um, but we were lucky that we were even able to find her quite frankly, because. Like those people book up so quickly and also they're so expensive.

Like we, we were able to find somebody who was relatively affordable, but it's just insanely out of, like, I would say 90 percent of people's price ranges. Like it's just. And there's, and there's no help. There's no subsidy. There's nothing for it, um, at all, like, which is crazy. Um, so it was really tough. And then, uh, I was off for 20 weeks and we, um, then after that, we were doing a part time nanny share with a friend of ours who was really kind and like, let us, because my husband [00:27:00] was, was looking for a job.

And so he had her, yeah. Two days a week, or he had her three days a week, and then we were doing the part time nanny share two days a week. And then once he got a full time job, um, we went to, um, actually a nanny share with our neighbor, which we got really lucky, but finding our nanny was very, very, very hard.

We interviewed 20 people. My neighbor had a crazy spreadsheet of all, like, it's just so hard and it's so expensive and. There's, you know, you have to just do it off like one or two interviews with somebody and then you're just handing over the most precious thing in the world. And like, again, we got very lucky with the nanny that we got.

She is Mary Poppins. I wish we could keep her until McKenzie was in college, but it was so hard and you just don't have a lot of time to dedicate to it because you're ramping back up at work. Um, and it's, and you know, you feel so much guilt, like you want to be with her, but you also want to be at your job and it's.

It's wild. It's wild.

Elsa: I was coming back to work. Did you have to start full time after your 20 [00:28:00] weeks off?

Crystal: Yeah. So we,

Elsa: Mm

Crystal: so Google has a program where you're, you're, you have a ramp back time. So for two weeks, you're half time and then you ramp back up. Um, and I, I think it was, it was like looking back, I think it was like the hardest year of my career of ramping back up after Matt leave, I would say that that's re entry into the workforce is.

And I would, and I, by the way, was at Google, which is a wonderful company when it comes to incredibly understanding there's massive scaffolding in place to help, you know, with reentry and it was still really painful. Um, and I think that, like, to me, that was actually the hardest adjustment with motherhood was going back into the workplace and then becoming a working mother, which I never didn't want to be, but like, it was.

It was excruciatingly hard.

Elsa: my gosh. So, how did you navigate that time? Were you able to take additional time? Did you What did you do? How did you get through How did you get through it?

Crystal: Honestly, finding our [00:29:00] nanny was a big relief. Finding a nanny that I could trust because then it felt like I had an extension of me or an extension of my mom with Mackenzie, which helped a lot. Um, and I'm very fortunate that Jake and his role doesn't really have to travel like I do. Um, so he, you know, when I was traveling, he, you know, he's home and, uh, we're also very fortunate that like his mom, my mother-in-law, um, was more than willing to hop on a plane.

So I had to go to Japan twice within the first two months of being three months of being back at work.

Elsa: my

Crystal: And like his mom hopped on a plane both times and was here and like, well full and our nanny was here and stayed late. And so it was just like, we, we are again, super fortunate to have that sort of like family unit and like that sort of care.

But for people who don't, I just don't know how, I just don't know how they do it.

Elsa: Yeah. I, I mean it is the hardest thing and I think it's kind of like a patchwork. Whatever you can like kind of make work and who you can trust to make [00:30:00] happen. But for you personally leaving, um, your baby, how was, how did you manage that?

Crystal: It was really tough. I mean, I was on, I think I was on a plane to New York within my first three weeks back at work. Um, it was really tough. I would say I tried to in the first few months while she was still like, not, you know, She wasn't even crawling when I went back. I mean, she wasn't really sitting up on her own yet, um, where I could because Jake's job was flexible, take them with me.

So his mom's in New York. So I would try to take them out to New York or my family's in Southern California. So if I went down to LA, we tried to do that, but you know, you can't do that all the time. And it was just, it was. It's really hard because you miss them and you want to be there and you know all the pressure you're putting on your partner and then on the flip side, you're like, oh, I guess it's also not the worst thing in the world that like, I get to like, work till 7 and then go out and get martinis and then get to like, there is a little bit of even the guilt of like, being a break from parenthood a little [00:31:00] bit, you know, um, you're like, oh, I should be enjoying this.

Like, I should actually be at home helping.

Elsa: I know. Gosh, travel is like so tough. Um, okay. And then, um, For you and kind of getting back into work and then now where you are, what's like, are you in like a rhythm or do you guys have like changes in front of you that you are anticipating or are you feeling good with where you're at with like your team?

Crystal: You know, we're, we're in a good rhythm because we have a great nanny share. We have a great nanny. Um, she is starting school in September. So that's going to be a new adjustment. And I'm starting a new job this week. And I didn't even think about like, as we, you know, normally when you start a new job, you're thinking about all the logistics of starting a new job.

And like yesterday, we were just talking about, okay, like, what does this mean for like, Until I get like my schedule in a good place of who's doing pickup and who's doing drop off and when she's going to school, how that's going to look because my [00:32:00] commute goes in the opposite direction of her school and like all of these logistics.

So I think it's just, it feels like every time you get into a rhythm, it's like something else changes and you just kind of have to figure it out. Um, but yeah, it's kind of weird how like that, like scaffolding in society just doesn't necessarily exist for parents. Like everything is just like a little bit harder for us.

Elsa: I know. Um, I know. It's, it's definitely a shocking piece. And I think to, you talk about like career and what you want and then you're like, well, what can I actually do? And that kind of like tension between the two. Have you had to? re evaluate that, or have you had to make adjustments that were uncomfortable for either end? Is there, what has that moment been like for you?

Crystal: You know, I think I'm grateful and that I hear a lot of like powerful women now and working women. [00:33:00] Like it used to sort of be like, here's how I juggle it all that kind of like making it look flawless. It's like, well, you maybe have an army of nannies or whatever. I hear a lot of like, you can't have it all.

Just don't expect to have it all like expect that there's going to be certain things at work that you have to do and you're going to miss certain things with the kid. And then there's going to be certain things that you miss. With your, with your daughter, your son, your kids, or there's gonna be certain things you miss at work to do something with them.

And that's okay. And that's actually balance. And so I think kind of accepting that of like, all right, cool. I'm not gonna be able to do everything. I'm not gonna be able to work out every day, or I'm not gonna be able to see, you know, go out to dinners as often, or. Like, I'm going to end up not being able to like, save as much money or like spend money on the things I want to spend money on because it's worth it for me to just have somebody come over for two hours while I'm like catching up on work on the weekend, like, just like being okay with trade offs, I think is like, put me at peace more than before, where I was just trying to make everything work.

And like, that's just [00:34:00] not. It's impossible. It's impossible unless you have like an, an army of nannies helping you and the most flexible schedule in the world.

Elsa: yeah. And even if that's true, even if that's true, you're still going to feel guilty or something about somewhat losing something somewhere.

Crystal: Totally. Totally. Like every time I travel with her, I'm taking her away even from, you know, her little friend in the nanny share and her routine and her story time and all the things that like she loves, you know, so it's. Like, absolutely. There's, there is no, there's, it's not that there's like a winning, it's just, there's like this.

No, there's no perfect. You just figure it out for what, like which trade offs you're okay with making and everything else will be fine. I was telling my dad this actually, I was like very nervous. I was like really nervous. I'm like, well, I feel like I'm not going to be as available for her. He's like, I'm not worried about McKinsey's future with you, Crystal.

The fact that you're even thinking about it shows it's going to be fine. It's going to be different from the child you had, but that's fine. Like that's [00:35:00] okay. It's okay.

Elsa: Mm hmm. I love that. And I think that that is the, the ultimate, is it is okay. However it looks and works and is right for you is what is okay. Um, I love it. Uh, what about has changed you as a person? Mm hmm.

Crystal: You know, I think one thing I do have to say to working moms is I think

Elsa: Yeah.

Crystal: a mom has actually made me a much better like employee manager, like peer, all those things, because it just contextualizes actual stress and actual stakes. And like, when, you know, there's something small at work that you're obsessing over like a deck and you're like, this, I used to just obsess over it and think about it all the time.

And now it's like, you know what, this is, this is great. We're good enough. We don't need to keep rubbing on this. Let's get this ship. Let's get this out the door. Or like, this [00:36:00] is not as like life threatening as we're acting like it is because you just have real stakes at home. Um, and so I feel like it's actually taken my stress level down and my anxiety level at work down.

You know, I've got the steadiest hand because everything feels like it's low stakes and not saying that you should, you know, lean back from work at all. That's not it, but it just kind of helps contextualize. And so when you can be that, like, steady hand in the room, I actually think it gives you the upper hand on a lot of things.

Elsa: Uh, Crystal, that is like pure gold and like I feel like I needed to hear that from somebody. So yeah, you're exactly right. And full disclosure, Crystal and I have been high stakes without kids in work environments before. Yeah.

Crystal: were we stressed over that?

Elsa: I know. And sometimes I, I wish that was my biggest stress too.

Crystal: Yeah. Yeah. I would, I would give anything to have a customized lipstick color, be the mo the thing that I'm the most stressed [00:37:00] about in the world,

Elsa: Oh my god. Those were the days, man. Uh, okay. So, I do have a few, like, rapid fire, like, one off questions. But, you know. Thank you for sharing. I think there's such power in people that can share a story for you being able to share, but then even more so for somebody out there that can take something from the story. So thank you. Thank you for sharing. Um, and then, um, also, uh, Anything else you would big tip or subject or topic or something that's like floating out there in the ether that you're like, I need to, I need to talk about that.  

Crystal: um, the best, the best two pieces of advice I got, or [00:38:00] from the same woman, this woman named Jess, who I love. The first was if you have any one, if you're expecting a baby and you have any onesies with snaps. Never put them on at night because the last thing you want to deal with in the middle of the night are snaps.

And like, she gave me that advice and I was like, whatever. And then after the first night I had snaps, I was like, I'm burning any onesie that has snaps and it's going to be zippers and magnets forever. And that just changed my life. The

Elsa: love it.

Crystal: second piece of advice she gave me was, um, don't see when you have health and when you have care and your child is napping, do not expect anything from the person that is giving their care.

That is their time to rest. Your child is exhausting. You have hired somebody to watch your child because they are exhausting and having an expectation that then they're doing additional work on top of that is going to burn them out. And what you're going to end up seeing is somebody who's disengaged on their phone or exhausted or frustrated or at their wit's end.

[00:39:00] Um, if that's like your expectation. So your expectation should be why your child maps like they get to do whatever they want. Like. Eat lunch, be on their phone, nap themselves, like, whatever it is. And I thought that that was really good advice because I think, you know, we tend, I think there's like this, and I've heard this from a lot of moms of like, oh, well, you know, snapping for two hours.

Like, she could be doing the dishes or she could be doing this. And it's like. I think about the time that went on the weekends of Mackenzie's napping and how like the first hour, I'm just kind of like decompressing myself, like making sure that the people that are around you have that same opportunity, I think is really important.

Elsa: Oh, I love that. Two really good pieces of advice. Yeah, I, I love that. Uh, random side note. Do you feed your caregivers when they come in? Do you provide lunch for them? Or dinner?

Crystal: I don't, but she, um, so she provides her own, but she grocery shops for, we're so lucky, she grocery shops for the babies and just sends us a [00:40:00] Um, receipt and then we, um, reimburse her for that,

Elsa: Okay.

Crystal: included like her own groceries for her own lunch and that we would also be fine with that, but she just kind of batch makes everything for them.

Elsa: Yeah. Good. I always wonder I get like, I like tip to be like, okay. 20 lunch at least then on top of, but like, I've never heard anybody else do anything different.

Crystal: Yeah, interesting. Yeah, I think it's different. And that's another thing that I've seen is that like the nannies. Situation is wildly different depending on where you live. Like even in the Bay area, the microcosms of like San Francisco versus Oakland versus like Marin is wildly different. So it is kind of, that's one thing where I would say, as you're looking for recommendations and as you're looking for advice, look for people and you're like immediate, like almost area code and zip code versus kind of mass from different friends.

Cause it's just, it's so wildly different everywhere.

Elsa: Great advice. I love it. Um, okay. If you could sum up [00:41:00] parenting. And entering into this world with one word, what would it be?

Crystal: Magical,

Elsa: Oh,

Crystal: magical, magical, best thing in the world. It was magic.

Elsa: amazing. Um, okay, great. And then, what's like your hot tip? What's like really working for you? Where you're like, this is like a slam dunk.

Crystal: You know, we were really strict on sleep and, um, she is a great sleeper to this day. And um, I think that that, and like, I've talked to like lots of my friends on that and that was just a huge unlock for us as parents, as people, for her, if there's one thing you're going to get hyper focused on, I think like setting up really good sleep hygiene up front, like is a gift is a gift you'll, one of my friends said it's a gift you'll give them for the rest of their lives.

Because they need sleep to, you know, recharge and grow and things like that. So that was my two cents of like, if there's going to be one thing that you focus on and stick to, it's [00:42:00] stick, stick to a sleep program.

Elsa: I love it. Amazing. Great. That's beautiful. 

Crystal: This was so fun.

Elsa: dude,

Crystal: so amazing. Oh

Elsa: my gosh. So we, so like this podcast is just such a brilliant idea. I feel like we need a lot more of this of just like regular moms set, like giving regular advice for again, like these people out in the ether. How did this idea come to you?

Just my personal journey. I mean, literally, because we had Felix, same idea. In the middle of COVID. Like, Oh my gosh, we can, we should move to, from LA, we, we can, we don't have to like stay glued here, and then it was perfect time to start a family, we wanted to buy a home, everyone from LA was moving to Austin, so I was like, let's go try it, we did, we bought a home, we, we loved it, and then came, and then Our, our next baby came, literally, had four months off [00:43:00] and then I had a month of halftime

Crystal: Um,

Elsa: By the time I was full time back at work, I was pregnant again. So I knew from just that short time and then as I started traveling and all the things that you do, there was no way I was going to be able to do it with like two baby babies. It was

Crystal: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. You can see people working there, doing their work, and I don't know if it's true, but there are a lot of people in these areas that are not able to do the work they always try to do.

Elsa: anchor I reached out to girls that have teenagers now. And I, the text that I sent was Hey, having a hard mom day, like any random advice.[00:44:00] 

They did not respond. They just didn't respond and granted, everybody's busy. So no, ill will. But I was like, I am really in the trenches here. I am really

Crystal: Yeah. Okay.

Elsa: things that are going on, and that are saying the truth about what's hard, what's easy, what's not, what you'll, I don't know, what you'll encounter, what you may not, and I think, think that's just gold.

I mean, I think that hearing somebody else's story is, is [00:45:00] powerful.

Crystal: Yeah, it's like your mom bestie that you can talk to. Yeah. No, I love that. It's, it's totally true. And online there's, there's horrible advice. There's all, I think a lot of people that prey on moms. And I think I like, I just absolutely hate that. And I, I was really lucky where I had, I'm like you, where I was on the most of my friends on the later end of having kids.

I don't have many friends with kids that are older than 5. so I was really lucky that I like, I knew a bunch of women who had just been in it that like would respond to text messages like that. And if you don't have that, and if you, if you're brand new to a community, that's the other thing of like, I spent basically my entire adult life in San Francisco.

And so I have community here and even my friends without kids that are here, it's still easy. And like, I just went out, my gay bestie had his. It's 41st birthday in the Castro and like, I'm able to just go to that on a Saturday. So a lot of my life didn't have to change. Um, but if you're somewhere where you don't know a lot of people, it's, [00:46:00] I sell it.

It is so isolating.

Elsa: It's already, this very lonely internal journey. And then, no matter what, whether you have the best support in the world, it's still you that's going through it. and then if you don't have community, it's so hard to find some. And how difficult it is to find some when you're in that, vulnerable state.

Crystal: Totally. And it's kind of interesting cause I actually had a hard time accepting help at first. Like I took a lot of advice beforehand, but one of our neighbors dropped off some groceries for us and I was like, it was just great. It was all this food that was just like ready to eat and healthy and yummy.

And I was like, at the time I was just like, Subsiding on like protein shakes. And I was like, like, I was in tears because pre made salads are so amazing. I was like, I'm like, I should be able to do all this. Cause like I didn't carry. So like it shouldn't be hard on. And she was like,

Elsa: Mm hmm.

Crystal: uh, she was like, caring has nothing to do with like, she's like, sure.

Yes. Of course there's a recovery and that's hard, but like you're caring for a newborn. Like that's hard regardless. Like [00:47:00] don't have this expectation that you should be like cooking dinner every night and making fresh lunches and like. Still working out and all of this just because you didn't actually carry the pregnancy.

Like you're taking care of a newborn that's crying because they're hungry every two hours. Like that's enough to take out anybody. And like hearing that it was like, okay, actually this is hard. This is hard. Like it's hard.

Elsa: Yes. Yes. Absolutely. Yeah. That's, it's so true. That's the other thing that I was going through too, is it's like, Why can't I do this the way I want to do this, or how I envisioned I was gonna do this? I mean, it was so crazy, and then you're, if you're already thinking in that world, then you have, all the outside crappity crap that's, coming at you.

And then, of course, everybody's well meaning. There's no ill intent here, obviously. But you still have to sift through your own stuff.

Crystal: Yeah.

Elsa: wild. I think finding that community, building that community, just having some real, real people doing real stuff. [00:48:00] Ah!

Crystal: person to do it because like you, the second anybody meets you, they want to be your best friend for like good reason. It's like an amazing human, like who wouldn't want to be like close to you and around you.

Elsa: Oh, I love it. Thanks, girl. I'm so happy that I get to use this as an excuse to be like, let's chat.

Crystal: I love it. I love it. Me too.