Money Mindset Every Black Woman Entrepreneur Needs

Your money mindset can either grow your business — or quietly hold it back. In this powerful roundtable conversation, host Linette Cottrell sits down with three accomplished Black women entrepreneurs to unpack how beliefs about money impact confidence, pricing, growth, and long-term business success.

Featuring Kiah Akosua Asabea of Sirius Web Solutions, branding strategist Bernice Jackson of Rise of Dark Dawn, and Makisha, Founder of Sistahbiz Global Network, this conversation delivers honest insight, practical wisdom, and empowering strategies for Black women navigating the first five years of entrepreneurship.

In this episode, we discuss:

• How money mindset affects pricing, sales, and business decisions
• Breaking generational beliefs around wealth and entrepreneurship
• Building scalable businesses as Black women entrepreneurs
• Branding, visibility, and creating long-term business growth
• Practical strategies to shift from survival mode to wealth building

👉 Follow the podcast and share it with a sister who needs this conversation. We’re on a mission to help Black women make it through the first five years in business — and thrive far beyond them.

#MoneyMindset #BlackWomenInBusiness #WomenEntrepreneurs #BusinessMindset #BlackFemaleEntrepreneur #Entrepreneurship #BusinessGrowth #WealthBuilding #WomenInLeadership #SmallBusinessTips #EmpowerHERPodcast #BlackBusinessOwners #MindsetShift #BrandStrategy #BusinessCoaching #FinancialEmpowerment #StartupJourney #WomenWhoLead #CEOmindset #Sistahbiz

Transcript

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SPEAKER_04 0:09

Welcome everyone to the Empower Her Business Podcast, formerly known as Women of Color in Business. As you know, we are shifting our focus, rebranding, and we're focusing on black women entrepreneurs doing those crucial first five years. I call it the make it or break it years in business. We are working to combat and impact the fact that 97% of our businesses, businesses owned by black women founders, do not make it to see their fifth year in business or beyond. So we want to make a difference in that area. So I'm joined today in one of our roundtable series where I bring to you not just one brilliant black woman entrepreneur, but three have joined us today. And they're going to share with us to help you elevate your business and not just survive but thrive beyond those five years. So let's begin with the introduction. I'm going to begin with Bernice Jackson. So Bernice Jackson is the owner of Rise of Dark Dawn. She takes clients on an educational understanding, learning what their problems are and solving their pain points, creating a vision of strategies that delivers branding solutions that engage their audience, drive traffic, and thereby increase their sales. Welcome, Bernice. We also have with us Kia. Kia is a native of Charleston, South Carolina, a wife and a mother of one daughter. She is the principal and senior IT consultant at Sirius Web Solutions, which was established in 2002. It specializes in website development, digital archiving, graphic design, and e-marketing strategies. Kia earned her BS in communications and information systems from Florida AM University and a webmaster certification from Florida State University. Welcome, Kia. We also have with us Makisha. Makeisha is the founder and head business coach of SisterBiz Global Network, which is a dynamic business hub dedicated to empowering Black women entrepreneurs. Through training, coaching tools, and a supportive community, Sister Biz aims to close the wealth gap and help black women, solopreneurs and micro businesses build scalable and sellable enterprises. As the head business coach, Makeisha specializes in guiding micro businesses to rethink their revenue models, human capital strategies, branding systems, and resource allocation. Welcome, Makisha. So, ladies and audience, today we are talking about money, your money mindset. The first questions we're going to begin with for our panel is how has your money mindset influenced the way you price your services or products? And I will begin with Kia. You can start asking that one.

SPEAKER_00 3:29

Wow, money mindset. Well, when I first got into business for myself, I had an idea of how to charge. At the time, um I was working in an IT department when I was in corporate America, and I knew how much they were charging for my services. Um, I saw a proposal by accident. And so, which I don't believe in accidents. And so I said, Oh, that's how much they're charging me. And I'm doing my calculation. This is how much I'm getting in my paycheck. So I kind of I got an idea of at least at the corporate level, how much my time was worth to other clients, um, to our clients. And when I did take that leap to um go into business for myself after I got my webmaster certification, they also had given us some advice on what is the going rate for these. So I I kind of put it somewhere in between, but on the lower end um because I was just starting out. So my thing was let me get some clients once I have proof of concept that I know what I'm doing, because clearly the company was making a lot of money off of my programming and things of that nature. And so stepping out there, a few people took a chance on me. And so once I got the name out there, got the clientele, started getting my big first big contract with the university. That was the biggest one I had. And um then I said, I'm gonna bump the prices up a little bit more because clearly I know what I'm doing, and clearly you're playing for my training and expertise. And it takes, you know, they said there's some something that said, uh, it may take someone 10 years to train, you're paying for all that training. It may take me 10 minutes to doing, but you're you're you're paying for all the education and the training that I've done so I can do it in 10 minutes or an hour or something, and it'll take you forever to figure it out, you know. So I had to get comfortable with raising my rates because inflation is real, bills are real. Um, so that was a little bit uncomfortable at first. I had to get comfortable with knowing my worth and the value of my time and my expertise. Um, and then learning to say no, you know, learning to turn down contracts if people were not willing or able at that time to pay my fee. Because sometimes you want to give people a hookup and that happens. You do ask for a discount. Okay, I was like, well, if this is your budget, this is what I can do for you. But if you want all these bells and whistles, this is how much it's gonna cost. So at first, I'll try to work with you. I'll work within your budget. You know, I I ask what you want, here's what it costs. That's not your budget. Let's see what we can do. And then we can build and add on from there. So I tried, but there have been a few times I had to decline as much as it hurt, you know. Um, but I'm more comfortable with that now because since going full-time since 2004, in the beginning, it was, you know, it was a little nervous because I had bills to pay and a business to sustain and a daughter, you know, so it was a lot that of responsibility. I would have been more reckless if my daughter wasn't there. I wouldn't say reckless, I would have taken more chances. I would say I would have taken more risk financially, but I did play it a little bit safe, you know, because of her.

SPEAKER_04 7:11

Okay, wonderful. Thank you for that. Make sure Bernice, either one of you can jump in.

SPEAKER_01 7:19

Yeah, I mean, it's it's similar. When you're when I was starting out, um, I actually fell into this um because of COVID, right? And not being able to secure another job um during that time. So I had to make some magic happen. And so my prices started off low because you know, I was unsure of you know who what went where and why. And then as I grew, you know, I started increasing my prices based on um some different programs I was in. But what really triggered me was I was talking to this young lady, she was a sister, and uh she looked at what I was doing. She was like, You do what? You offer this for what? And she laughed at me. I was like, What? She's like, No, it's it's it's laughable because I would never ever do all of this for what you pay. When I started out, I started out with $5,000. She was like, and I take no jobs under $10,000. And what you offer would be well over $10,000. I was like, shut the front door, right? She was like, my male counterparts charge nothing but $10,000. They start at $10,000. And so she helped me structure some things and then find my self-worth, you know, my self-confidence. Because, you know, unsure, but you're delivering it. So what are you sure about? That was her question. I was like, I am delivering it. So what am I unsure about, right? And so I needed some coaching, and I was, and I've been grateful that um God has aligned people up, it's like, hey, this is what you need to do, this is where you need to go. And so it was because I I was an emotional sale. You tell me a say soft story, and okay, right? Because I want to help everyone, but you can't. If you're gonna you you gotta choose whether you're gonna elevate here to another client level or you're gonna stay down here, right? And I've even asked people ask me, can you do a website for 50 bucks? Say what now? So once you understand your self-worth and where you have reached the level you've reached, then you will become more comfortable with saying no. And I had to say no, you know, and just just like yeah, it was hurtful, but you know, I'm hungry too.

SPEAKER_04 9:48

Okay, yes, yes, Makeisha. What you have to say on this question?

SPEAKER_02 9:55

So for me, I've I I don't know that I'm gonna go back to when I was consulting, just primarily consulting prior to running SisterBiz. And I started off working, you know, for a a school district. Um and when I started consulting, actually it was prior to that, but I I actually when I was working at the Capitol, I started taking on contracts on the side, and that's kind of how I started consulting on the side. And so originally my mindset was just like I want to do something that is short-term, project-based, that'll bring in an extra $30,000 to $50,000 a year that I can just use for like my financial goals, whether it's debt or wealth building. And so, as long as I, you know, can secure a contract or two each year, that'll help me do extra stuff I'm trying to do with my own planning, financial management, and planning. And you know, this is like 15 or plus years ago, and so um I uh I started there, and so my mindset, because you asked about like what's the mindset that drives pricing, it just literally started with like what do I want? Like, I never I never really started with like how do you price things? I started with like what is it I'm trying to do in my life that I need this money for and how much of it do I need. So I would go there, and then when I started, um now I had already run businesses before, I owned a day spa, all the stuff. So I've had pricing experiences in a bunch of different ways. But for when it comes to like consulting, like what we're talking about now, it started with like me kind of really getting clear on what I needed to sustain myself and build what I was trying to build in my life, and just being unapologetic about like okay, now go after the opportunity once I know what it is I'm trying to do and what I need to get there. And then the second thing, similar to I think it was, I think Kia, you mentioned this. Um, when I worked for the school district, I managed contractors for the school district that were doing professional development for school leadership teams that I was training and developing. And these contractors were being paid in six-figure space for the work they were doing. And so I got to not only see, like, oh, this is what you make for this, and I also got to see this is what comes with that level of a contract in terms of the liberals. This is the type of teams they bring on board, this is the quality of the PD, this is the frameworks and and and and the credentials they bring and that sort of thing. And so I kind of got a sense of what that looked like, and that helped me to get my head around being a six-figure consultant. And so as soon as I left the school district, within months of leaving, I landed my first six-figure contract. And so um, and so yeah, I think it's really an important thing that Kia said in that so often, unless you run up on by mistake like Kia did, or you have the responsibility of seeing the numbers in some way, yeah, tell us how badly we are being underpaid. They don't you don't know it. So all you're working with is what you have access to to as a as a starting point.

SPEAKER_04 13:16

Right.

SPEAKER_02 13:17

It's really important to talk to high-earning consultants and people in your industry that are high earning to understand how they price and what they charge, and that is possible, and what comes with that level of earning in terms of um deliverables and setup and marketing and sales. So, yeah, I would say those two things were probably two big things. One, just first of all, what do you want? Like, build your life before you choose the business that's gonna support it. Build the dream vision that you have for what kind of money you want to come in, and then design um a product and a pricing that helps you get there. I think so often we just kind of work from a space of survival versus like no dream and design and then find the opportunity that matches that big vision.

SPEAKER_04 14:06

That's a great tip. Uh y'all um drop some great gems there. I love the concept of, you know, we don't know that we're being so grossly underpaid, right? We because when you're working a job and you go for a raise or you're thinking about getting a raise, they're always talking about the dollars of tight, right? We're not getting getting gonna be able to give raises this year, but you don't know what how they're profiting from the service you're giving. So to actually be able to see those contracts and those numbers and be like, oh, you know, like both both Kia and Makisha, oh, I, you know, this is what I do, or this is what is done, and this is what they get for doing this. And then Bernice having someone else to tell you, like, I would never do this for that much, because starting out as new entrepreneurs, pricing is something that we really have to investigate, as opposed to going from emotion, like, okay, so I made this much an hour at this job. So if I could just replace that salary by doing this when you when you really can make so much more, you know, as a contractor than as an employee, because as an employee, they are considering whether the benefits I give you are included are included in you being here. And that's why your salary is this amount, which it really doesn't, you know, add up like that. Those that the numbers are not numbering like that. Great, great information. So I guess on that line, um, if there's anything we can get um out from this question, from what we just discussed, why do you think so many um black women entrepreneurs through that first five-year period struggle with pricing confidence?

SPEAKER_00 15:59

I guess it just depends on where they are in that business process. Um, if I look at myself, when I was in corporate America, the money was good. And I, you know, I will say it was good, but you work for every penny, but they were making a ton of money off of us in order to pay us well, you know. And my stage was when my boss at the time actually wanted me to choose between the job and my daughter. We had evaluations. I actually got three raises in two years, so I did good work, and I stayed over time sometimes. And this last evaluation, she was like, Oh, it doesn't seem like the company is your first priority. And I'm like, No, God, family, I have a daughter. She and she had children, her children were teenagers, which was interesting. So everyone's idea of motherhood and family looks different. That was clear to me at that conversation. And um, I was like, Well, I'll be honest with you, guys. Like, if you tell me at 4:30 on a Friday that I need to work overtime, I need more advanced notice because I had to pick up my daughter from daycare. She was a toddler at the time. So, but if I have advanced notice and I can make arrangements, then yeah. So at that stage in my life, I really it pushed me because I had a five-year plan, but I had to make a decision because now you're pushing me against the wall and you're giving me an uncomfortable ultimatum.

SPEAKER_03 17:44

Right.

SPEAKER_00 17:45

And you're trying to wear me out. My daughter's getting, I say, my daughter doesn't understand mommy's busy. I'm working over time. Sometimes I'm bringing her in the office to finish projects for you. I'm working more than 40 on a regular basis, 40 hours a week on a regular basis, and you're still complaining and you want more? I said, the money good, but it ain't that good for my sanity. Um, you know, but I'm like, I'm missing not, and I made a choice. So my five-year plan turned into like a two and a half, three-year plan to step out of corporate America. So at that point, it was a um, I didn't have a lot of planning time. I was already saving money, and I was like, oh, in two more years I can do so. I had a plan to save up this money for so many years, and then I'll step out. But that one evaluation, that change where you're telling me to make a choice or asking me to make a choice, um, that really put me in a place of, okay, I gotta pivot, I have to shift. Similar to you know, Bernice's with the COVID situations, like, oh, this thing happened, no one saw it coming. You gotta pivot. And so, based on that stage in my life, I said, okay, I have this much financial responsibility that I have to cover no matter what. So actually, when I went into doing my business, quote unquote, on the side, I actually took out a, I went and got an OPS job contract. So I worked that for 20 hours a week so at least my major bills could be paid. Because when you're starting a business, it's up and down. There's ebbs and there's flows, and you really don't have your stability yet. So I didn't have the luxury of getting an SBA loan, you know, small business administration loan or a bank loan, maxing out credit cards because it came all of a sudden. I really had to adjust. And so um I did that for a couple of years, but still building the business. And I was very clear with them. I was like, even though they offered me a full-time position and it was tempting, I got a lot of offers to go and work for this full-time, even when I took out small contracts. Oh, if you work for us full-time, let's say, but I'm working on my business. This is a dream of mine, and this will give me more time and flexibility for my daughter, time for myself. So I made sure I put it on myself, keep this a part-time gig. So it forced me to really focus on the business and build it up because the finances, my financial stability was on the line, and I didn't want to go to my family for a lot of help because they thought I was crazy for leaving corporate America in the first place. So I didn't want to hear, I told you so. It's like you leaving that good job. Like, we don't understand the money isn't worth it. I'm stressed. I I can't anymore. I'm burnt out, and my daughter is gonna suffer because of that. You know, I'm so you know, I said the money's some money is not worth it. And so at that stage in my life, I didn't have a plan, but I have some colleagues who did put a plan in and said, Oh, I'm gonna get an SBA loan, I'm gonna do this. And you know, I went to all those workshops, SBA, small business camp, and so there's different pathways to entrepreneurship. And depending on what stage you are in your life, it determines what kind of risk you can take, if it'll be a slower path for you to get to that goal of entrepreneurship, if you have to work part-time just to keep some regular bills coming in, because you have other responsibilities. You know, if I came straight out of college, I could be a little bit more, you know, flexible and take chances and maybe go back home, live, you know. But I had a lot of responsibilities. So I had to take a different path than some of my colleagues did. And that shaped how I dealt with money. Um, I've always been a frugal person, naturally. Um, so I was really determined. I was like, I can't go into a lot of debt. I still have skills, but I really resisted multiple attempts to go back into the workforce. Because it's tempting. It is very tempting.

SPEAKER_04 21:56

Because it seems a lot easier, you know. Let me just get the calorie in that. That it's not really security. As you spoke about getting that evaluation, it's not really secure, but it feels more secure. It does. You have those benefits covered. But I love that.

SPEAKER_00 22:11

Let's not even go there with that.

SPEAKER_04 22:13

Yeah, I love that you gave the um you are were explained the process that entrepreneurship, your journey in entrepreneurship looks different for different people based on what your responsibilities are.

SPEAKER_00 22:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:27

Like you were building your business, you had you were not in corporate America, but you had a contract while you were building your business, and you stuck to what the dream you wanted to build with that. So that kind of informed how you manage your money, uh what you did when you earned your money, and what your um relationship was with how much consulting you were going to do versus being an employee again. Yeah. So great information. Bernice and Lakeisha, anything on that?

SPEAKER_01 23:02

Well, I I think um I I can speak for me and a few women I've talked to, when you're so used to making everything happen yourself, you work in a silo and you're like, okay, I could do this, I can do this, and people come to you with problems, okay, I can fix this and fix this. But when you step out of that safe place of corporate and now you're doing it all yourself, it's like, oh my god, oh my God. Now it's it's it's it's a lost thing. Like, okay, how do you it and instead of reaching out to get help, you're trying to figure it out yourself, you're trying to do it all yourself and you don't know to hey, go to the SBA or go to this until you run into someone um that can already give you those things. You know, if you don't have that team within your home or that team within your circle that's already been there or that can give you some direction or willing to help you, you keep grinding and grinding and grinding, and you're hitting that wall, and then you like, let me lift my head up and do something and find some help somewhere. So, and then because you've been doing it, now you got to find your confidence in this new avenue, this new adventure that you're in. Like, am I sure? Can I do this? I know I can do this, right? So, for me, I think it's just when you're used to doing it all and working in a silo and you you got it, and now you're into a new space, it's like you gotta figure out a new way to operate.

SPEAKER_04 24:35

Yes, yes, I feel that. Anything to add, Makisha?

SPEAKER_02 24:41

Um, I think maybe two things come to mind for me. One, I do think there's an actual art and science to pricing that they just don't know. And so they come into business and they don't know how to look at costs, they don't know how to look at the market, they don't know how to look at competition and do a competitive analysis, they don't know how to look at customer and demand and like which customers, you know, bracket you're in to be able to charge a certain amount of money. And so, and so then they just charge kind of with no sort of strategy in mind. And so that is one reason I see um underpricing or overpricing, quite frankly. We don't talk about it a lot because we're so used to being underpaid, but I see people who haven't yet matched the value with the offer, and then they don't understand why they're not getting paid, and it's not necessarily that they couldn't make that much, but they haven't yet designed an offer that matches the price. And so just having that the customer, the offer, and the pricing all in sync is what is usually missing when people are underpricing or price, mispricing, um, and not you know, making the money they want, and just also not covering costs like um is an issue, like um, because you're not thinking about like first let me pay for what it is that I'm creating for you, and then let me make a profit. Um, and so we often then and and not just with supplies, but time and expertise. So I'm not charging you for the fact that, like Kia said, I've been doing this for 10 years, but I can give it get it to you conveniently in 10 minutes. I'm not charging you for the fact that it takes this certain amount of hours because it's a customized um package or it's been done customized for you. I'm not charging you for the supplies and I'm not charging you for labor, which means then labor ends up being me. That's why we usually charge for it because we don't consider ourselves labor, even though we are often the frontline labor in our company, which never then means we don't set ourselves up to hire and actually have labor because it's not in the pricing, right? And so um, I just see a lot of of that probably not and and and I think a lot of that is associated with employee mindset. You never had to think about those things before because someone else was running the show, and so when you go into business, I would say for my first five-year ladies, like definitely um do your homework to educate yourself and learn um, you know, the the crap, the the formulas around pricing, and and and and it'll take some time to learn, and you'll make some mistakes and you'll move your pricing up and down until you get it right. But don't it's a really important thing to learn and understand. Read as much as you can, don't just like pull prices out of the air.

SPEAKER_04 27:44

Very good, very good. Um, I love one of the things you do, uh Makeisha, with your program and your workshops is that you actually take um black women entrepreneurs through that process of they can learn about pricing and what they should be considering and and you know how what their break-even point is and how you how much profit do you want to make, and what does that mean with your expenses? And to your point, if there is so much in entrepreneurship that we don't have to deal with as an employee. And there's so many different hats we have to wear when we step into entrepreneurship as a solopreneur, that we have to, to your point, Bernice, we have to get assistance. It's not it's not a journey we can take along and be successful. There's no way you know all the information you need to know to run your business successfully. You just don't. So you have to find those resources that can assist you in learning what you need to learn. And it is a learning process, it is definitely um time you have to invest in learning it. So great, great, great information. Have you guys ever had the experience where a client you had to handle a client that pushed it back and said, This is too expensive? And how do you handle that all the time? Because I know our ladies just starting out, when they get that, they probably feel like, oh, I need to lower my price. Uh maybe it is too much. So I want to know how you guys have journeyed through that experience, like when you first started out, and then how do you handle it now? So, how would you advise someone just starting out to handle it? Wow, okay.

SPEAKER_00 29:32

Well, I would say it was today, unfortunately, with technology, they have all these do-it-yourself uh tools um with website graphic design. Um I'm not a fan of them. Um and what I tell some of my clients who come to me with that, it's like, oh, I can do this for free. I was like, well, then you can do that. And then a month or two later they come back because they didn't know what they were doing, even with one of these free little, you know, do-it-yourself tools.

SPEAKER_03 30:03

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 30:04

I would say in the beginning, I was a little bit more in a negotiating mood because I was just starting out. So, you know, like I mentioned before, you know, uh put together the proposal, we talk, we say what you need, and that's like this is how much it's gonna cost. And then they say, okay, I can't afford that. Uh, can you do it for this much? I'm like, no, I can't do that for this much. But what is your budget? Let's see what we can do. You may want a, you know, a 20-page website with a lot of interactive features and things of that nature, but your budget says you can only afford a five-page. I say, so we can just do this in phases. Let's look at your project now in phases. Phase one is you get your five pages just to get you a presence out there. And then when your budget allows, we can add on. And, you know, so that's where I am today. Um, then I was a little bit more in wiggle room. I said, oh, if you're a nonprofit, I'll give you a 15% discount because you're a nonprofit. You know, I would hear the stories. I was like, Brunei, I was like, oh, I know. And then, you know, oh, it's for the community, you know. Can you do it for the community? I'm like, really, the community paying my bills, you know. So I've heard, oh, I've heard it all. I've heard, I've done, I've heard barters that were unbalanced. You know, can you build us a website and then you can get into our event for free? I'm like, your event is like what a hundred dollars? This is gonna cost you a few thousand. No. So I've I've been through, I've heard barters, I've heard, you know, hookup, you know, for the community, I've heard it all. So now I'm I'm more in a position where here's my portfolio, you see my work, you know what I can do. Um, if you want it done well, we can work together. If you want it done cheap, you get what you paid for. You might want to go somewhere else. Um, so I'm I'm more comfortable saying, no, I cannot work with this project within this budget, but you can come back and see me when you're ready. You know, I haven't had to do that so many times, but I have negotiated where they have yielded and say, okay, this is all we can afford, then we'll just go with that. You know, so that's more often happens, but there's been a few times I've had to say no, thank you. You know, and then they come back because they they might have gone to someone who say, Oh, I'll do it for $200. I'll give you a 10-page one, and it it was messed up, and then they bring me back in to fix it, and you know, so I've I've had that happen a couple of times as well. So then they'd be like, Okay, I guess you could. I was like, Yeah, I think I know what I'm doing. I've been doing this like 20-something years. Come on now, you're right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I got receipts. That's what they say now. They're saying I got receipts. You got receipts. That's that's the dude they got that's what they're saying now.

SPEAKER_04 33:08

Okay, anything to add for any sun makes you for me.

SPEAKER_02 33:13

I think um I would approach this is maybe a little bit different um than most people do. So I think the conversation generally in our community around pricing is if they don't want to pay, walk away. Like, and there is some truth to that. But here's the thing that I see. I want to just go in another direction completely. You typically are in the wrong circles, you typically don't have the social capital or the network where those types of things are not gonna happen to you, and so you're not in a room with people who have eight-figure budgets, so they're willing to pay six-figure contracts, or where or even you know, five-figure or six, you know, five-figure contracts. Um, and so if you're in a room where the average person that you're trying to get to pay you has a full budget for their organization of less than six figures, then it's unrealistic, and quite frankly, just I don't know how ethical it is to expect somebody who's not making any money to pay you a certain amount of money. And and so I think if you want people who are gonna be able to pay you, you should check their budget first. But do they even have it? And and are you in rooms where everybody in the room has it? Because then you you're past the point where you're trying to like figure out how to get past the nickel and diming of people who can't afford you, and now the work is to do the second thing that I want to come to, which is are you articulating value properly so that people don't question your pricing? Because sometimes it's not that they wouldn't pay, they're just not gonna pay you because you're not properly articulating the reason why your pricing looks the way it looks, and that's what sales is about. Sales is about the proper messaging of the value of the offer. You want to make it obvious, like so that they be embarrassed to like say they don't want to pay. It's like obvious that this is right, and so I think a lot of times I see women who don't know how to articulate the value of the offer. And the crazy thing is that black women tend to customize and just go over and above and over in quality. Like most customers, the clients that I work with, they are serious about the quality of their product or service. So if they just knew how to articulate that, then they would get less pushback around like why are you charging this much? And it's not sometimes the value isn't there, but that's not always, usually it's the values there, you're not articulating it right, right? And so, and so I think that's really, really important. Um, and and stop doing all the custom work because it is expensive, and then you have to figure out how to articulate that. But I want more of us to look at like stop selling whatever the customer wants, get your business to a place where you stay in your lane, you offer something turnkey that takes you less time because it's systematized and productized and and now with AI and technology um and the speed at which those things move, we do have to look at how we can offer things faster and more conveniently without breaking our backs to deliver. Um, and I do think as a sweet swap, sweet spot between like um remaining competitive in that we do have when you're working with a a practic uh a consultant or a contractor, you have that in-person personal touch that AI can't give you. But at the same time, um like how can I also figure out how to tech enable my business or my processes in a way that take so much labor off of me from customizing and stuff? Because then when we do charge and we don't get what we want, it's like you're working and you're not getting compensated for all the time and effort you put into it. And some of that's charge more, but some of it is like, how can I create a more productized product so that it's not costing me as much time and labor and um resources to deliver?

SPEAKER_04 37:44

Great points, great points. Being able to articulate the value is key, I think. I think, like you said, uh Makita, we do so much behind the scenes that are it we're wearing ourselves down, but the customer has no idea that value, what it took to get this to you, right? So if we're able to articulate, this is what it takes to get this to you. And this is the value of this. Because we have it in our head and in our heart, but we have to be able to express it. So maybe we need training on sales, on you know, what's telling our story, telling the value of what we give, what we bring, what makes us different.

SPEAKER_02 38:25

And not just not just sales of the core product, but sales of the add-ons. Because we tend to do all that stuff, and like let's say Kia makes a website for somebody, and then the website, like she said, there's the difference between the five-page website, basic, and the 20-page set um website with all the bells and whistles, and we have to learn how to charge for the bells and whistles. Like, okay, you want that? No problem. Like mid-project, no problem. That's gonna cost you another $2,000. That's gonna cost you another $500. Do you want to move forward with that? No problem, add it on, but you're gonna pay for it, right? And so, really understanding how to understand your product so that you can make money when you add those things on.

SPEAKER_00 39:11

Oh, yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_04 39:13

Yes, yes, I love that.

SPEAKER_01 39:14

Yep, definitely.

SPEAKER_04 39:17

So, Lace, have you ever invested in yourself? I'm talking about with coaching, tools, education, and how did it shift the how you um see your own value?

SPEAKER_00 39:32

Oh, yeah, definitely. I I mean, even though I'm minored in business, my I did visit the uh small business administration, took advantage of their workshops, networking opportunities. Um, I paid for like a small business boot camp. Name was Andrew Morrison. He really got me to think beyond myself so I can build a team. You know, he was like, think about all the things you need to run your business. Do you know someone who can do that for you while you run your business, do your business? You know, so he got me thinking of outside of myself. I've even gone to Black Enterprise conferences, various business conferences, um, now some virtual. Um, and now I'm presenting at various conferences, you know, through doing the work. So I think investing in ourselves is very important because it helps us be a better business owner, but not also in our industry, you know, because I, you gotta go to these tech conferences. See what's the latest thing. Uh, Black Tech Week that they started uh down here. I I would go to Black Tech Week so we can, so I can see that we're not alone in this space and network with other people who look like me in the tech space. So I think that's very important to lift up our heads from our whatever our business is for a moment, see what's going on in the industry, get more skills so we can take our businesses and ourselves to the next level, and you know, that will translate into serving our clients a little bit better, you know, offering them better services. Um, and then there was one business conference that um focused not just on doing the business, but self-care for the entrepreneur. So bringing that balance. So investing in ourselves is not just the business part, but we gotta do some self-care on ourselves so we can be our best, show up as our best self. So they even had some relaxation things, some cooking demonstrations, things ongoing. Here are different ways that you can just take a minute, relax, refresh, reset, and then get back in there. So that conference was really nice. I like that because it was a good balance of business and self-care. And um, so yeah, we we gotta invest just personally in ourselves as well.

SPEAKER_04 42:03

Love that, love that. What about you ladies?

SPEAKER_01 42:07

Yes, definitely. I've invested in in coaching, I've participated in several different programs, and there's always an aha moment, like aha, really? Um, so I think it's very important to invest in those. I've even invested in um, like she said, self-care programs, right? And just because I need to break a break away, yeah, and I need a wusa moment. But yes, you should definitely um invest in yourself and invent in coaching programs just to stay abreast of what's going on. Lakeisha.

SPEAKER_02 42:45

So so can I offer another side to this?

SPEAKER_04 42:48

Anytime, girl. Anytime. We're here for all the side.

SPEAKER_02 42:52

I absolutely agree with everything that um Kia and Berner said, but I've personally done over 1,200 coaching calls with black women over the past 10 years who are in business, and black women are the most educated group in the country. We have all the certifications, we have all the degrees, we have all the professional development, we have all of the licensings, we have we have all of that because we are serious about making sure we know what we do. We're not just walking into places trying to just, you know, do we we care about incompetence and we take our work seriously generally, like, and I think that's why the numbers look that way. And then plus, we all have had to see how new Jim Crow chased us all to the head of household role, um, you know, over the years, and so many of us have had to provide an education with a way for us to get higher level jobs and higher pay, even though we were still underpaid. So I say all that to say a lot of times what I see is people taking the Professional development thing and small business too far. And they come to me after they've dropped $10,000 on a coaching program, something that they did not need to pay $10,000 for. Because they did it because they have imposter syndrome and they felt like a coaching program was going to teach them something that they didn't have. And they might not have had it, but the point I want to make is a lot of what you think you don't have, you're not going to get it from programs. You're going to get it from running the business, failing, and fixing it.

SPEAKER_04 44:34

I need to repeat that.

SPEAKER_02 44:37

A lot of what you're going to get from your business in terms of learning how to do it better is doing it. Because when you get it wrong, you fix it. And the reason why is because your business model is usually unique to your circumstances. Even if the model is not a new brand new business on the market, like there's plenty of website companies out there, but their keys website company doesn't exist anywhere with the people who have the expertise and her own self, her expertise, her background is different, her understanding, her business model, the customers she serves, the offers and packages she has, they're unique. She's created her own. So there are things you're going to learn about your business by doing and get better at it. And that is real where most of the learning happens. And so if you delay that by saying, I don't have enough expertise, so I'm going to go do this program and this certification and this accelerator. And this is, and it I just think I see people doing it not intentionally. Like they're not choosing a program with an intentional look at like a specific skill that they might need to build towards what they're trying to do. I see a lot of accelerator hoppers. I'm going to go from this accelerator to this.

SPEAKER_03 45:48

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 45:48

And I see a lot of people getting all the certifications. And when I dig underneath in coaching, a lot of it is like, I'm not good enough.

SPEAKER_01 45:57

Insecurity, yep.

SPEAKER_02 45:59

It's an insecurity because they think that these other businesses um have something they don't, and really they don't. They just messed up some stuff and fixed it right too, or got a good network, or but but I just want to caution people against like um not being strategic and intentional. I think everybody should have a growth plan and a PD plan of their own. Like I read like it's nobody's business. Yeah, I'm ready to go back to school for my doctorate. So like I'm not suggesting people don't, and I've done a ton of PD from everywhere from Harvard to IDO to like all the things. So I'm not suggesting those things aren't good, but I'm when you go into business, it's not like when you're in, you know, government institutions or corporate spaces in terms of like, I need this skill to do this particular job. You're an entrepreneur, you gotta do a hundred jobs or at least understand them. And you're not going to get the near like I had can't tell you how many MBAs have told me that going through my program and running their own business on their own has really been where they knew what they needed to do. Um, because they've been on the ground working. Somebody just told me that this morning. She was like, I was just telling somebody not to go get their MBA to just run your business because that's where the real learning is. Um, and those MBAs are expensive $85,000, $200,000. I'm like one in my house. And some of these six-figure coaches, they are eight-figure coaches, they're out here making a ton of money because they're charging you ten and twenty thousand dollars, the same amount you would pay for a degree, and it's not worth it all the time. So you just gotta be that much money for that and make sure that when you go after your professional development, it's associated with a very clear vision you have for a skill you're trying to build, versus like, I gotta be, I need this to feel like I can do a I can be a better CEO and really address the healing that comes with healing that imposter syndrome and doing the work that Kia talked about. When you do that self-care and that healing and the confidence work, you'll find that it's a bunch of white men out here, you know, what the hell they're doing, making millions of dollars.

SPEAKER_00 48:10

So true. And but the cosign on what you said, every program is not for us. I remember someone who looked like us referred me to this women, it was a free newsletter thing, and every now and then they'll do these little check-in virtual things. And I was reading, and I actually went to one of them, and I could not relate. Because their world I did not understand. They didn't look like me, they didn't have our struggles, they didn't have our challenges in society, and I I seriously could have taken over that whole thing and said, let me tell you how to really run a business. Right. But I could not, I could not relate because their lives, and look, they had a certain type of privilege and opportunities just by the color of their skin that was not naturally open to us. So I had the back, I was like, I'm not paying attention. So everything that says women in power, women in business, blah, blah, blah, sometimes they don't even relate to us. So I'm happy to participate in this because this is unique to us. The way we run our business, the way we relate to each other in business or as our colleagues is different. It is very cultural and it's a nuance that it's it's hard to explain. You just know it and you feel it. I just really could not relate to them, you know. And I'm like, wow, that must be nice. I didn't know. You know, she's talking about, oh, I got my first contract and I did this and this. I was like, yeah, you know, so I'm just like, wow, deep. You know how long I had to work on this proposal just through them to get me, you know. I got the contract, but I put together like a 25-page, you know. But yeah, it was yeah, everything isn't for us, so we have to be careful and really vet these things or get referrals or something, can't just be yeah, we have a totally different space. Accelerator hopping, as you say. I like it.

SPEAKER_01 50:15

Yeah, and the the accelerator hoppers is I've run into so many women that go through so many different programs, but then they don't implement the few things that they did learn. So and they're still saying, Well, I don't know how to do this, I don't know how to do that. But what happened when I asked someone, tell me what you what you did in your accelerator program and everything they said they didn't have, it was in their accelerator program. And I have to ask them, Well, what are you doing right now? You know, when you finish the homework, when you finish the program, you were supposed to go straight to your business and start playing around with it. It's like you can't keep going through program after program if you're not gonna implement anything, right? And so, and that's hard. Like, oh, I gotta do the work too.

SPEAKER_04 51:00

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, right. Yeah, it's it's uh balance of the two, but I agree with you. You do learn so much by doing it, not by hearing it, not by being in a room of people with the you know, with the happy energy, you know, talking about stuff. Yeah, at some point you got to get out of that room and actually do it and go through the pains. Yes, it's tough, yes, it can be stressful, yes, it can overwhelm you, yes, it can be painful, but you don't have to go through all of that. There is no there is no pretty way to be an entrepreneur. There is not. So if that's your mindset is supposed to feel good all the time, that's unrealistic. Yeah, okay. You you gotta make the mistakes and learn from them and be mad about stuff and get over it and keep going. There are gonna be down times, gonna be hard times, they're gonna be times when you don't know what to do. But the only way to figure out what to do is to be in that position, to be in that spot where you don't know, I don't know, and then the answer comes, and then the right person comes along, the right information comes along. But if you're running from that to from course to course, you you you you that's no way to build a business, and you're delaying the inevitable.

SPEAKER_02 52:21

You're gonna if you want to succeed, you're gonna go on this journey and you're gonna put in the time. So the longer you wait to put in the time, yeah, the better you're delaying getting to where you're trying to be in the business. But you have to put in hours, days, years of time to get your business where you want it to be. So if you keep delaying it and keep preparing and you don't get out the lab and actually get out there, yeah, you still have to get out there when you're done with all that. So you just you're you're delaying that.

SPEAKER_04 52:51

Yes, all that preparation. I think uh yeah, I can I can go on on that. So, next question. How do you keep your money mindset healthy when your business feels slow and inconsistent?

SPEAKER_00 53:10

Well, I mean, part of it when you get into business for a certain number of years, you learn the seasons of your business. Yeah, every business has a season, and I learned that my season um it slows down towards the end of the year because it's holiday season and things like that. So I had to pivot. I was like, okay, so in preparation for that, one with money, since I know that now, it took me about two years, maybe three years, to really see the ebbs and flows and see the patterns in my business. And now the ebbs and flows aren't as great. You know, it used to be like this, but now it's you know, it's like this, just through experience. So I know that, okay, when I get this, you know, you get a contract, put some money aside because you know you need something to float you during those slow times. We get excited with the big contracts, and you just want to, I'm gonna splurge, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna get this new, you know, toy, I'm gonna, you know, get some more software to do this. And you do want to invest in your business and invest in yourself. But that's what I learned to do. But then I also said, well, can I offer something or do something, you know, pivot in the slow times, either do more work on the business side of things, you know, catch up on my books, um, maybe go through, do another training or something like that, build with my team that when we start out, you know, in January, this is what we're gonna do, you know, to really jump. Because in the beginning of the year, a lot of things happen. And it depends on the client because I have nonprofit clients. I I work with a few universities who don't have full-time webmasters, so they bring us in to kind of hold, hold it down so they can get some full-time webmasters and some nonprofits and uh, you know, for-profit business. So the for-profit ones, they may escalate because if they have something they can sell in the holiday season, so I got I can pivot and help them out, you know, because their seasons pick up when mines are starting. It's like, okay, we can deal with the for-profit business. For nonprofits, end of the quarter, grants are running out, the funding is leveling out, they got to write new grants and wait for the funding to come in for the net. So it's like learning your client base, at least in my case, with these three different types of structures, educational institutions, nonprofits and for-profit, they have their seasons. So I had to adjust a little bit to mimic their seasons so that my ebbs and flows are not as great. So that just takes time of doing the business and learning. It may take a good solid two or three years, maybe four, to learn the seasons of your business and the clients that you regularly attract to your business or the ones you're going after through these RFPs or through referrals or through networking, um, knowing your target market. Um, so at least for me, I've gotten better at that. At first, it was scary. It wasn't like, oh my goodness, what am I gonna do? You know. And so I I probably, you know, I read some books um on entrepreneurship and things, and you know, and talked to people. I talked to other business owners who were in the industry longer than I have, maybe not in my industry, but at the end of the day, behind every business, there's certain things that are the same as far as running the administrative part. So I talked to other business owners who were successful in at least 10 or more years and got some advice from them. And that really helped me kind of manage the ebbs and flows. So it's not as as uh extreme as they were when I first started out.

SPEAKER_04 56:53

Got that. So learning your business cycle in the business cycle of your customers, yes, and working within those. Wonderful. What about you ladies?

SPEAKER_01 57:04

Yeah, for me, um, for me, the same thing. I had to learn my cycle, and my my cycle dwindles off in the end of the year. So I learned to do more grinding doing those first um three quarters, um, just so I can have the income I need to offset that. And within that downtime, you know, I do a lot of creating. Um, I work with a lot of different uh programming trying to create other things, and I take the time. Um, I still do business, but it's just not as heavy. But because you know, I'm older. I take the time to live a little bit, travel a little bit, and and live, right? Because when I spend all that time just grinding and working and grinding and working, with very little sabbatical for me, I I make sure I have that nest stick sitting right there because it's time for me to woo-sock, right? And that's when I can work on the business, right? I can create new programs or I can create this thing that I'm trying to create or finish writing my books, you know, because that's me time for me, you know. Even though I work, it's just not as heavy, and and I just I just want to live a little bit.

SPEAKER_04 58:19

Okay, yes, then you definitely deserve that.

SPEAKER_02 58:24

So, first I just want to say I think IKEA's whole everything she just said was brilliant. Like I just really feel that um the ebbs and flows that she describes really are a testament to her move towards predictability and revenue. And so it's it I'm not necessarily talking about how much money she's bringing in, I'm talking about how she's showing how over time I can have more predictability, not this and this and this, um, and more steady cash flow. And so really careful attention to like the cash flow when the money does come in. How are you making sure that you make it stretch, that you're being smart about thinking about down seasons? That's really smart. So she's paying particular attention to cash flow in and out. And cash flow, the difference between revenue and cash flow is largely just timing. When is the money coming and out? Because you can make six figures or seven figures, but if all of it comes in in the first half of the year and you spend it, then then what you do in the second half of the year. Yeah, so you might be good at bringing in revenue, but are you good at cash flow? And she really spoke to that. And I thought that I think that's brilliant because I want to say something crazy like 82% of businesses that fail fail due to cash flow flow problems. So that's really important to listen to what she says. And then working on the back end of the business when things are slow is really important because um you don't realize how back end systems often impact costs and efficiencies, and sometimes you don't have the time to work on them. And so don't just sit there in despair. Like, what does this business need while I'm waiting for these dollars to come in or working on these dollars coming? Like, I just I'm piggybacking on everything she said because she just hit the nail on the head. Um, the only thing and predictability and cash flow predictability is how you get your business to maturity, like you want a mature business, you know your business is an infant if you have no clue on when money is coming or going, and you just risk and it feels like a huge risk because you don't know if you're gonna be able to pay bills every month. So your goal is not necessarily just bringing in revenue, but getting your business to a mature space where there's a predictable profit. Um, the thing that I will say though, now that I didn't just completely just piggyback on Kia because it was just a brilliant, um, is like look at your sales pipeline um and use your numbers to look at what's coming and going. Like a lot of times we just like money's not coming in, I don't know what to do, and we are helpless. And that's because you're not data driven and you're not looking at your traffic sources, you're not looking at your pipeline, and you're not looking at your conversion rates and that sort of thing. And so if you take what Kia said around like you know your seasons, then you think about what pipelines are feeding each season. Like she said, she has a certain industry stream of revenue in certain seasons, those are her pipelines in those seasons, and so really identifying the pipelines associated, like where's the business coming from? Finding new traffic sources is really important to look at when times are down.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:35

Wonderful, great information, great information. Okay, ladies. I appreciate you so much for being here with us today. This has been a blast. So much good information for those entrepreneurs out there listening in their first five years, wondering how to manage your money, thinking about what their money mindset is and where they should go from here. So they've got a lot of great information to go on from us today. So thank you so much for being a part of our roundtable series on the Empower Her Business Podcast. And as always, I wish you each the very best of joy, health, and wealth. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:17

Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:21

So now we're gonna go into the um closing session of our podcast, and I'm gonna ask each of you to answer these three questions. The first one is if your younger entrepreneur self sent you an invoice today, what do you think she charge you? And what would you write in the margins?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:47

Know your value, um, and be confident in your talent and charge accordingly. All right, I like that, Bernice.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:04

I would tell her to rethink what she's charging me and make sure the value is matching what she's delivering. Be strong, be confident, and just walk out there with it. All right, Makeisha.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:23

And the question is if I could tell my younger self something about pricing.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:28

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:31

Oh, I know. I think the biggest thing for me with pricing is I would tell my younger self, like, don't sleep on getting your costs as low as possible to deliver because you're gonna make a lot more money. Like, do not put that on the back end, like, don't splurge, like, just be just really keep your costs as low as possible for what you're offering, um, and take that seriously.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:02

Wonderful, wonderful. Second question: if there was one black woman entrepreneur you could trade places with for a week, you can step into her choose and whatever her type of business she's in, and you can experience what it is to be in her position for a week. Who would you choose and why?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:26

The first one that comes into my mind is Maggie Anderson. She is the one who wrote the book Um Black Year, and I actually got to meet her.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:37

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:38

She signed my book. Um, she's more of an entrepreneur advocate because her passion for highlighting, elevating, and honoring our businesses, I was impressed by that. Um, because that's how I pretty much I'm like, let me see who in my community offers the service that I may need. It could be home repair, it could be long, it could be anything. Do one of do we offer it? I'll go there first. And if not, then I'll go outside my community. So I really, because I'm, you know, you know from back in the day, you know, I have my activist activism side that I'm really about our community. So I appreciate her work and what she has done over the years, how she's continued to promote our businesses and recycling the dollars in our community.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:32

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:33

And I'm very impressed with what she does because I try to do it in my own small way, but she's gone international with that. And I think it's so important that we continue to recycle the dollars in our community.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:46

Yeah, love that. Yeah. Bernice, who would you want to step into the chooser for a week?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:53

Well, the person that comes that comes to my mind is Teresa Harrison. Uh she's the CEO of George Street and it's an it's an IT company and I like her because she's bold and she's she's matter-of-factly, right? And I like that like to the point rip the band aid off, and she's a uh serial entrepreneurial entrepreneurial, and she has guided me in so many different ways until it's it's just I mean, I can't even tell you, so that's who I would uh love to mimic.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:34

Wonderful Lakeisha.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:37

Um I think maybe um Sheila Johnson. Um she's the wife of Robert Johnson who used to run um BET. And I just read her um biography, so I'm familiar with her different properties and resorts that she runs as a CEO and a billionaire. And so I would love to spend a week just um, you know, with that level of resources in that business. Because I used to run a day spa, so I have an affinity towards like hospitality type businesses, and that I think that would be fun.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:11

One for one. Yeah, she has a property down here in Florida. Um, what are what are you ladies? What is your number one go-to for um self-care? Like working so hard in our businesses, working hard to help others. Um, we have to always be mindful to take care of the MVP in the business, which is which is us. So, what do you ladies' go-to for when you know you need to take a break and take care of yourself? How do you express that?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:46

Well, people may think this is a little out there, but I actually turn my cell phone off uh in the evenings around six. I barely put it on on the weekends because that's the main line that the clients and I have I still have a house phone. Um so I unplug, I'm on this device all the time to do my work. I have to unplug. So that's one thing I do on a regular basis. I unplug because I learned that's what motivated me to get a cell phone that shows how long I've been in this business because I was using my house phone when I started, and clients were calling me late at night, especially male clients, and I'm like, you're not calling me about a website at 9 p.m. Are you serious? Let me go get a cell phone, you know. So that separation of my time and the business time. Um, I've been doing African dance is my go-to. I've been doing that since I was in college, so I still go and I do, you know, I go to dance class and I teach sometimes. So that is my release and cultural enrichment and all of that, and hearing the drums and really just, you know, I enjoy that. Um and I like walking in nature, you know, go to the park, and I'm just in awe of nature. Like, how does this one little seed grow into this huge tree, you know, or this flower? How does nature know to do that? You know, how does spirit know that so I enjoy being out in nature and just really connecting with everything and just breathing in the positive energy and breathing out the stress and all? So those are like my go-to's and and what helps is that my daughter doesn't mind hanging with me, you know. She she's like, I don't go to the park, you know. So she's she's 24 now, but she still likes hanging with mama and spending time with my husband. And you know, I'm more social than he is, but you know, sometimes you're like, come on, let's, you know, family time, you know. So yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:46

Beautiful, beautiful. What about you ladies?

SPEAKER_01 1:09:49

Myself, well, I love creating uh Zen moments in the house. You know, everybody's gone, and that's just me. So I like to listen to frequencies, I like to just have really soft lighting, um not quite dark, but just soft like candlelight. So I like candlelights, I'll do spa moments, or I'll just sit on the couch and just read while frequencies, different kinds of frequencies and tones play throughout the house. Uh, and my other one is if I could just watch some anime in peace. Stop disturbing me. And don't ask me why my grown behind is watching anime.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:33

Don't feel bad. I love Star Trek. Don't feel bad. Star Trek is my go-to. I know them, I've seen them all, and I keep re-watching them from Kirk. My family, I watch, you know, next generation. Like, you know, I'm gonna watch it in reverse. Let's go back to voyage. Oh, no, I'm gonna watch it from Kirk, and then they get this new one. I'm gonna go back to Enterprise. And oh, I've been watching it in a different how many times have you seen Star Trek? Well, every time I watch it, I see something new.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:02

You see something new.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:04

Don't feel bad about your anime, get your anime.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:07

Okay, and people have no idea how biblical some of this anime is, and it's like, oh, I know where you're coming from. It's actually pretty good, but yeah, as long as I can get some quiet time, I'm good. Quiet time, bath moments, and just some serenity.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:27

Love that, love that. Makeisha, what's your go-to for self-care?

SPEAKER_02 1:11:34

So for me, I'm supposed to be headed to an acupuncture appointment shortly for one thing. Um I try to do that monthly. Um, but at my core, clean eating is really important for my hormones, for my mood, for my like energy levels. Um, and so it's really important for me to like eat clean and and nourish my body, sleep well and go to bed on time, um, walk and get outdoors and move. So rather I I do a combination of the gym and walking um and dancing sometimes, um and stuff like that. So movement's really important for me. And then in terms of treatments, I love we call it the naked spa, like going to the pools, the Korean spas with the pools and the steam rooms and the saunas and all that stuff. I'm like a big spa person, so I love those kind of um like treatments and getaways.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:35

Got it, got it. Beautiful, beautiful. All right, thank you, ladies. So that is the conclusion of uh after the podcast episode. You've been listening to the Empower Her Business Podcast. And before you go, I want to thank you for being here. If this episode supported you, please pay it forward. You can do that by hitting the follow button, rating us five stars, leaving a comment, and sharing us with others. This is how we ensure the podcast reaches more sisters in business. Until next time, I wish you the very best of joy, health, and wealth. Be well, I don't know.