Running A Business In College

Darren talks with Nat about what it takes to run a business, lead a team at Bench Mark, and attend college full time. Please take the time to hear this incredible story. #benchmarkstrong #podcast #screenprinting #graphicdesign #apparel #nonprofit #startup #business

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:05

Hey everybody, thank you for joining us today. Another episode from Benchmark Studios with us today, special guest Nat. This is your second appearance in the studio.

SPEAKER_04 0:16

Yeah, I'm really excited to be back.

SPEAKER_03 0:18

Yeah, well, we are excited to have you back. Uh the first time was audio only. So it was just the MP3 that we uploaded and didn't do anything with video. Exciting though, it's still the most downloaded episode.

SPEAKER_04 0:33

That's crazy.

SPEAKER_03 0:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 0:35

It makes you really happy.

SPEAKER_03 0:36

Yeah, I I don't think I told you that before the show, but maybe this one will be the second most downloaded. One can only hope. Yeah, I well, I think your so that episode was focused on your personal story. Um growing up in West Virginia, coming here to Lancaster, Pennsylvania for college, um, and getting involved in benchmark. And I I think you your story resonates with a lot of people, and you're very authentic and relatable in how you tell it. So I think that all came together to deliver a great episode that people really vibed with.

SPEAKER_04 1:14

I hope so. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 1:15

Yeah, for sure. Um today though, I think it would be fun to and really instructive to kind of focus on some of your more professional um and academic pursuits. Uh so recap for anyone who didn't catch that first episode, which by the way, you can find it on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Um go back and listen to it. Well worth it. Um, but just a quick recap, uh tell everybody um kind of how you ended up here in Lancaster.

SPEAKER_04 1:52

Yeah, so um I'm from West Virginia, a very small town in West Virginia, and I came to Lancaster for college. I'm going to Pennsylvania College of Art and Design, and I'm in my second year. Um and and in my first year being here, I was looking for a job, and I just so happened upon a screen printing position at Benchmark Apparel, which is our social enterprise. Um, and I managed to get the job, and being a graphic design major as well at PCAD, um, it really goes hand in hand with a screen printing position. So while I'm studying graphic design, I'm also getting real-world experience actually being here. Um so yeah, it was it was a pretty quick, I guess. I I got to benchmark apparel really quick upon getting into college. Um I think I was hired here in November and I got into Lancaster late August. So I was pretty quick to get the job. So yeah, timing, timing was honestly just really great, and it's been really great studying and working here simultaneously.

SPEAKER_03 3:11

Hmm. I can imagine a lot of people would not characterize working and studying at the same time as great. Uh, but I'm happy to unpack that a little bit more because I think that's really central to the work we do here and to who you are as a person. So um just kind of in general, you already mentioned benchmark apparel is a social enterprise of benchmark program, the nonprofit. Uh we use uh screen printing, um heat press to deliver a product. Um traditionally in a nonprofit space, you can't charge people uh for what the work you do, and at benchmark there's not really anything to charge. We provide strength-based mentoring to high-risk youth, um, but you are actually delivering a product. Um so can you kind of tell us just a little bit about the the business and what kind of tools you use um to deliver your service?

SPEAKER_04 4:15

Yeah, so as a social enterprise, our goal is to uh not only um maintain a successful and profitable business, but it's also to uh give back to the community and uh contribute to their well-being. And so how we do that is we also employ the students here. There's currently one student working with us who's a high school student, and I think it's his first job he's ever had, also. So at Benchmark Apparel, as I said, we're screen printing, and as you said, we're heat pressing. We're making uh not only apparel for benchmark, like staff stuff, I mean, as you're wearing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:59

Um represent.

SPEAKER_04 5:01

Uh we're also uh making things for like local organizations, donors, stuff like that. Um and as we're doing that, we're not only making a profit, but we're helping students get that real world experience as well. And also what we're doing, um like screen printing, I consider it to be an art. And I think a lot of people would too. Um so I think it's really beneficial for uh like a high school student, this being their first job, to be in somewhat of a creative field, because a lot of jobs for high schoolers right now, mostly fast food or retail, they don't get a lot of room for creativity. Despite what those employers might tell you, they really don't. Um and those jobs, I mean, for a lack of better word, they're just not fun. They're not ideal for high school students. Um so I'm really fortunate for benchmark apparel to be my second job ever, and hopefully one of my final jobs. Um and I also hope it's a privilege for uh the students here at Benchmark to work here as well, for it to be their first job. Because in a management position, I try to make it not only lenient, but also fun and uh educational, I guess. I just really want it to be a super beneficial job opportunity for our students. And being in a creative field while also getting to work with clients and know how the process through getting orders works. Um I think there's a lot of skills to be learned uh at benchmark apparel.

SPEAKER_03 6:57

Okay. Yeah, on on that, tell me about from the time you started with benchmark apparel to now, what kind of technical skills go into the industry? What if I don't know, what's your favorite thing to do?

SPEAKER_04 7:13

My favorite thing to do, uh it might be kind of a cop-out answer, but actually screen printing is really, really fun. Um I've gotten the opportunity to design some stuff as well, designing the actual things that are going on apparel. That's really fun being a graphic designer. When it comes to uh technical skills kind of outside of actually screen printing, um I'm really putting, I suppose, my leadership skills to the test. Um I didn't start in a kind of a managerial position, obviously. Um, but now kind of running the show, I've learned a lot about leadership. Um there's been a lot of trial and error as well because I'm I'm in my second year of college. If I'm being completely honest, there's only so much more that I I know than a high schooler.

SPEAKER_01 8:11

Sure.

SPEAKER_04 8:12

Um so it's it's really a learning experience for me. So I'm putting my leadership skill skills to the test, also my communication skills. Um I'm talking to clients a lot more, which isn't something I initially did. Uh, and that's also not something I've done a lot before working here. So getting that experience kind of in real time um and also talking with clients, that isn't something that I've really touched on in my classes yet either. Um it's something that's only been kind of briefly talked about, but I haven't actually gotten to put it into practice. So I'm doing that. I don't really get a practice round. I'm just kind of being thrown into it. But it really has been a learning, learning experience. And so, yeah, I would think my leadership skills and and communication skills, those are really the things that are being tested while I'm here for the better, I think.

SPEAKER_03 9:18

What insights would you say you've gained through that process, whether about yourself or about you know work or school in general?

SPEAKER_04 9:27

Um something really big that I've learned that I think kind of applies to every aspect of my life right now, work, school, and even just everything else in my life. Um I really need to, it's really important for me to put myself out there. Um nobody else but you is going to put yourself out there. Um and so at work and at school, I've really learned that I'm not exactly the type of person that thinks to put myself out there. I'm I'm kind of just along for the ride a lot of the time. Um and I've learned that if I want to connect with people, whether it be for work or school, I need to make the effort. Um and so how that manifests itself at work is um maybe like needing help with something, because as I mentioned before, I'm learning as I'm here. Um asking for help, uh asking for help, getting my work noticed by others, um, that's something I need to make an effort to do. It doesn't necessarily just naturally happen. That's also something I've needed to do at school. Right. And so I've that's something that's brought to my attention constantly as I'm working and studying simultaneously, that you really need to try whenever it comes to that. And those things won't necessarily just happen to you.

SPEAKER_03 11:13

Sure, sure. For you, do you think that's a product of being introverted or just needing the the reps of you know like practicing putting yourself out there uh or is it something else?

SPEAKER_04 11:31

Um I would say both of those are accurate.

SPEAKER_03 11:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 11:33

Um, because I am an introverted person. Um as much as I love talking to people, I'm I don't really have like the natural um I don't know what you would call it. I'm not the type that just goes up to people and talks to them.

SPEAKER_02 11:48

Right.

SPEAKER_04 11:48

Um not necessarily because I don't want to, but it just doesn't come naturally to me like it does other people. Um and also just not having the experience beforehand. I've been a designer and I've dabbled in business before coming here, before being a college student. But I didn't really have the opportunity to experience it actually, if that makes sense. It's always been kind of mock situations or scenarios that I've never actually gotten to put my skills to the test.

SPEAKER_01 12:26

Right.

SPEAKER_04 12:26

And so it's just another situation where I'm constantly experiencing things new, new things every day, and having to just try something and just put myself out there.

SPEAKER_03 12:42

That takes a lot of uh everything, but uh a a lot of grit and determination and and I mean confidence in yourself too. It can't be easy uh to do that on a regular basis.

SPEAKER_04 12:59

I've I think I've definitely come a long way. Um I don't think if if you took like 17-year-old me and dropped me here, I don't I think I might have had a panic attack. Because I honestly a lot of my confidence well I say that, but now that I think about it, I think a lot of my confidence does come from being thrown into things. I believe that I work best under pressure. Um so maybe if you did throw 17-year-old me here, maybe I I would have been fine. But I I think that I've learned a lot as things have happened so quickly to me. Because as I said before, I I got hired here pretty much at the same time that I enrolled in college. Um so that's two completely new experiences happening to me at the same time and kind of having to juggle them at the same time. But they're still working in tandem with each other uh what I'm actually doing in school at work and also the skills I'm using for both of those. Um and also just like the environments that I'm in. I'm very privileged to be here in this environment and here at my school environment because I think both of those areas for me have been they've propelled my confidence. Um I don't know if some people would be able to say the same thing if they're working and studying somewhere else. So I think I'm just very lucky to be where I'm at and very lucky also that um the speed at which I've been experiencing things hasn't been detrimental and that it's kind of not even kind of, it's definitely helped me be more confident and not be afraid to put myself out there. If if anything, I'm more excited to put myself out there than I've ever been.

SPEAKER_03 15:04

That's pretty cool. Uh yeah. Uh uh on so many levels. The the fact that you can do it, but the fact that you can sit here and be introspective about it, I think speaks to the depth of your character as a person. Uh yeah. People twice your age probably wouldn't be able to sit down and and reflect on it like you just did. Oh thank you. Yeah, that's pretty cool. Um Yeah, so you mentioned a student, a high school student, is getting training in benchmark apparel. Can you tell me about how that came about and kind of what the goals are there?

SPEAKER_04 15:51

Yeah. Um his name is Chance. Chance is a uh junior in high school, I believe. Um we've there have been changes in team members at BMA. Um, like you worked there at one point, I started with you. Um and then Noelle, one of our mentors, uh, also worked with us at one point. And as he transitioned out, um we were bringing students in. Um as he transitioned out and I was uh taking Noelle's position, I guess. Um a student was brought in, basically taking my previous position. Um so that's another thing I was kind of thrown into uh being a leader.

SPEAKER_03 16:43

And what's the goal with chance? Sorry.

SPEAKER_04 16:46

The goal is for him to get him ready for the workforce, I suppose. He's already ready, in my humble opinion. Um he's been great. Um but to also I suppose he's sort of setting an example for other students. Um because while there's been other employment opportunities at benchmark, I think benchmark apparel is it it provides something different for high school students that they might not get other otherwise. Um so the goal with him is not only an extra person to uh uphold the the business end of it, um, but to also show other students that they can they can be in his place and that there are opportunities for them. I I would happily take any student that wanted to work at BMA because it's a great opportunity. And yeah, I'd I think there's a lot of growth opportunities for students at Benchmark Program and benchmark apparel. Um so I would really say the the end product of employing students is personal growth. Um because they're expanding their skill set and also probably gaining a lot of insights into their own character. Um as I said before, this is a lot of for a lot of students uh their first employment opportunity. And there's a lot to learn about yourself whenever you're getting a job for the first time. So my goal is to make that opportunity as beneficial as possible and as fun as possible for them to grow and seek out more opportunities as they get older.

SPEAKER_03 18:42

Yeah, yeah. Well, I I think that's really cool. And to your point, that is kind of rare for high school kids to have that opportunity to grow and gain skills uh before they have to do it, quote unquote for real. Um I one of the like you mentioned, uh, we worked together uh while I was still in benchmark apparel, and one of the uh students that I worked with while I was there, um he was unable to uh show up on time on a regular basis. And that would have gotten anyone fired very quickly um out in a in a full-time job. Um, but we were able to have some coaching around that. And um he I I think now knows in this current phase of his life he needs to have a job that works that has late afternoon hours. Right. Um and I yeah, he was able to to come to that realization and pivot um and continue being successful, I think, um without being fired.

SPEAKER_04 20:01

Right. I think there's a lot of I don't know if stigma is the right word, but I I feel like employers aren't nice to high schoolers nowadays, and there's really not a lot of room for them to grow and a lot of uh spaces where they're being hired. Um, so that's really what I hope to provide at benchmark apparel. Um kind of a practice run for them where they can make mistakes and not feel like their job is on the line for it.

SPEAKER_03 20:33

Right, right. That's really cool. Um You did mention that you've been working more with clients now. Um what has been uh one of the larger orders that you've had to fill?

SPEAKER_04 20:52

Um I could tell you the largest order I've ever had to fill. Um it was for a conference on juvenile justice. Um, and we had to heat press on, I think it was 1,300 padfolios in about a month, um, which is also something we had never done before. We had never heat pressed on I think like faux leather padfolios before. And it was 1,300 of them. I think that was 44 boxes that Will brought into the building that day full of padfolios. Um that's the biggest order I've ever had to complete. And I also designed the design for it that was going on it. And I think in working on that order, uh whenever it comes to clients, um I learned that oftentimes clients don't always know what they want, um, which is a very, very big thing for me to know as a graphic designer. And that a lot of the times it's it's kind of on you. As a designer, to help the client realize what they want. So that was something big that that I learned. And it was something I had to try really hard not to be frustrated over.

SPEAKER_03 22:15

But I mean, I could um I could only imagine. Do you does anyone under the age of, I don't know, 40 know what a padfolio is? Like had had you ever held a padfolio in your hand before that order?

SPEAKER_04 22:32

I don't think so. Because I was told that we were gonna be doing 1300 padfolios, and I was like, cool. But I didn't have an image of my mind in my mind of what a padfolio was. It was only whenever 44 boxes of them came in that I was like, uh, gotta figure out how to do this now. Um which is another thing that I learned. Um it's probably good for me to do some research on the things that I'm printing on now on. Because there were so so many burnt padfolios at the end of that order.

SPEAKER_03 23:11

Like literally burnt. Yeah, literally burnt. Scorched.

SPEAKER_04 23:14

Yeah. Um and there's also not a lot of resources out there. Whenever I'm looking it up, how to print on these things, nobody does it. Um so now I'm the resource and and I know how to do it. So if anybody needs help printing on pet folios, I got it.

SPEAKER_03 23:35

Noted. Noted. I guess that's a a good point though. Like as a essentially a small business, you have to be hungry and willing to adapt and meet new challenges. Uh, but at the same time, you have to be able to do it in a in a smart, comprehensive way so that uh you don't burn through your profit margin in a literal way. My gosh, 1300 petfolios. Wow. Well that that's that's uh I admire you for finishing that. Um while we're talking about business stuff, um you also, in addition to working at Benchmark and being a full-time college student, you also have a business of your own. Can you tell us about that?

SPEAKER_04 24:32

I do. Um it's called NACO, N-A-H-Co. Um, it's a it's an apparel business that I co-own with two of my friends from college. Um we do similar things to what we do here at BMA, but we are kind of targeting specifically people like ourselves, uh students at PCAD also. Um what we usually do, or what we've been doing, is we've been selling at the local art markets that happen at PCAD. And we've really grown in in doing that. We've figured out the formula, I guess, for what our target audience likes. Um and we've also learned a lot in because I think this is all of our first like actual business opportunity. Um it's really, really been a learning experience. I feel like I could say that about everything. But I've learned so much doing that. It's it's been wild in a good way.

SPEAKER_03 25:38

Well, what is the formula when you're catering apparel towards college students?

SPEAKER_04 25:45

Um I guess it's hard to put into words what exactly we like, I guess.

SPEAKER_03 25:56

Um You can just tell me it's a secret and you it's proprietary uh Tanako.

SPEAKER_04 26:03

It is a secret, and unfortunately, due to legal reasons, I can't tell you. But yeah, no, uh if this makes any sense, we are just being really on authentic in the z the designs we make. Um while here at Benchmark Apparel, uh there usually is like something specific, I'm putting on a design, um, and it's for an actual business. Um we're just kind of doing what we want at NACO, which has really proved to be successful. Uh whenever you're not really restricting yourself creatively, I think that really is effective in um marketing to a certain audience. I think that's what a lot of people like about us, because also in doing art markets, we've gotten a lot of publicity feels like too serious a word, but that that's a word I I don't want to associate with what we do. But people know our name and people see our shirts out and about. That's how we actually got started. Um in December of 2024, I think. Me and these two friends just printed some shirts for fun, and uh one of us wore it out to, I believe, a protest, and a lot of people were asking them where they got their shirt, and we made it. Um so yeah, and I I can't tell you here what was on the shirt because it's it's something I can't repeat. But it it was but people loved it, and that's why I think it's so important to be authentic in yourself whenever you're uh putting forth a business, because people will love it. If you're putting all of yourself into what you design or what you make, it it'll really catch people, I think.

SPEAKER_03 28:04

Hmm. Fascinating. So what what do you feel when you see a product you've created out in the world?

SPEAKER_04 28:12

It's probably one of my favorite things in the world. I've had professors come up to me and say that they're seeing my stuff everywhere. And sometimes, because it's not even just students that buy our stuff. The art markets at PCAB, they're open to everyone. I will just see people that aren't students wearing our stuff. Um and that makes me really, really happy. I think as a graphic designer, one of my favorite things, not one of, my favorite thing in the world to design is tangible things. Things that I can hold in my hand that I could see people wear. Um so it's just super, super rewarding to see that. Especially since a lot of what I make uh for Nako, it's not something super serious. I'm really just having fun with it. It's really nice to know that something that I'm just making for fun reaches that many people. And it it just there's only so much I can say about how happy it makes me feel.

SPEAKER_03 29:21

Does it feel serious to you?

SPEAKER_04 29:23

Uh it has to me at some points. I've had to stop myself at some points from uh putting like everything I have on the line to make NACO products because it is a shared business. I co-own it with two of my friends. Right. Um and we're all different majors. I'm a graphic design major, one of us is an illustration major, and the other one is an animation and game art major. Um, so we're all applying different assets of ourselves to the business. And as a graphic designer, I think a lot of my brain is geared towards business-related things.

SPEAKER_03 30:07

Sure.

SPEAKER_04 30:07

Because that's a big part of graphic design. It's it's a business-related venture. So it's been a little hard for me to remind myself that it is for fun and that it's not my baby. Um and I think in reminding myself of that, it's been a lot more enjoyable. And sometimes, even if it is for money, you don't need to take it that seriously. Especially since this is also something I've had to remind myself. This isn't NACO isn't something that we're living off of. A lot of the money we make from that is put into the next designs we make. Um we're not really using any of that money personally. Um so for me it's been serious at times, but I think when I'm happiest is when I'm just having fun working on it, and that I'm not stressing myself over it because that's when it starts to feel like a nine to five job, then a fun side hustle with my friends.

SPEAKER_03 31:20

Yeah, sure. And just so everyone listening knows, not everything you design is explicit in nature. Uh design is it beh hanging behind you. Um that's a design from Knoco. Um, so yeah, but uh just for the record, what did it say?

SPEAKER_04 31:38

Uh it said it said, I need a wheelseller. And I did I did get um a strongly worded text from my mom after she saw that we were selling that. Um but and that was the shirt that was that's kind of what jump started Namco. Yeah. People at a protest saw that shirt and were like, that's so sick, I want that.

SPEAKER_01 32:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 32:26

So I'm proud. I'm proud that that we sold that shirt. I didn't design that shirt. Um but yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:41

Has your mom recovered?

SPEAKER_04 32:43

I think so. I hope so. I hope that wasn't a wasn't a permanent hit to her health in all aspects. Um But yeah. We've I was gonna say we've grown a lot since then, but honestly, I don't know if that's the truth. Um our our humor has remained the same, and I think it's only contributed to our success.

SPEAKER_03 33:11

So be true to yourself.

SPEAKER_04 33:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:21

That's great. That's great. Is that uh was that kind of a one-off, or have you made um I don't know, iterations of that?

SPEAKER_04 33:30

It was a one-off.

SPEAKER_03 33:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 33:32

I don't know if we're going to make iterations on it. But excuse me. Uh maybe that's when that won't be touched again. I think that's that's an artifact that's to be left alone.

SPEAKER_03 33:47

Maybe for the best. Sometimes creative genius uh strikes like lightning and it it it just doesn't strike in the same place twice.

SPEAKER_04 33:58

That's true.

SPEAKER_03 33:58

Yeah. Um have you ever had to sacrifice anything like sleep or food or whatever for your business?

SPEAKER_04 34:09

Yeah. Um a lot of times, I would say often, um, to be completely honest, our a lot of our orders have been actually printed very last minute. Um I would say we like to spend as much time as possible on the design process and thinking about what we actually want to sell. So whenever it comes to printing, um, there has been a lot of light nights being here until midnight just getting it out so we can sell so we can sell them. Um and that's that's one of those things where it's ultimately benefit been beneficial from a business standpoint because we've had a lot of shirts to sell, and we've been very successful at doing that. But that's also another thing where I I would try not to do that again in the future because as I explained earlier, it's it's for fun. Nacko is for fun. And I don't ever want it to become something that takes away from our lives. Um I mean sacrificing a few hours of sleep, it's no big deal. I'm a student and I have to do it all the time. But whenever I move on to more serious things, like my own personal brand, me as a designer, rather than us three at friends making things at making things as fun. Um I know not to do that because that's going to very quickly make things not enjoyable for me anymore.

SPEAKER_01 35:52

Right.

SPEAKER_04 35:52

And graphic design is probably one of the number one things I enjoy doing. I don't ever want to make that not fun for myself anymore. So yeah, that's another way NACO has been a learning experience.

SPEAKER_03 36:09

What do you think you'll do once you've graduated college and you're out making money and um you're faced with that dilemma, um, what do you think you'll do differently to avoid being in that situation of making shirts at midnight?

SPEAKER_04 36:30

Mm-hmm. That's that's something I'm still figuring out today because I have to do this with work sometimes too.

SPEAKER_01 36:36

Right.

SPEAKER_04 36:36

Um I think whenever it comes to that point, if I am kind of working myself to the bone for my craft, I'll do it if I need to. I'm willing to s to make those sacrifices to make something I'm happy with. But nine times out of ten, even if I'm staying up hours into the night, a lot of the times I'm not happy with what I make. I'm always critical of the things I make. Even in the face of so much praise, because I'm fortunate enough to get a lot of praise from the people that see my work, I'm still critical of it. And I really do want to spend as much time polishing what I make because I want to put something out that I like. And the struggle of that is also time management. And as I make more stuff, especially like in class, because I'm doing that all the time, I I need to learn about myself and learn more about how I work so I can accommodate for myself and make sure that I'm not sacrificing my health or anything for what I make. It shouldn't be one or the other. I want to be healthy while making things I'm happy with.

SPEAKER_03 37:55

Yeah. That's a really great perspective. Um, I think a lot of young people have a like a hustle and grind mentality of success at all cost, or maybe I should say the appearance of success at all costs. Um and so I think that's a a really mature perspective to recognize that there will be sacrifices, uh, but the goal isn't to sacrifice, the goal is to be successful and be healthy doing it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 38:28

From my perspective, it's if if I'm not happy with what I make, then what was the point spending so many hours working on it? So keeping that balance of making sure I'm happy as a person and healthy as a person, um while also growing as a designer. You really need to, as you're doing things throughout life, find a balance, and that's something I'm still working on. Um so yeah, it's hard to get that that hustle mindset out, especially when you see that a lot in like media. Um there's a big uh like propulsion of the grind mindset. Um and I mean not that that's a bad thing. I think it's always important for you to have self-discipline and always have a critical eye for what you make, always be looking for how to improve. But I really don't see the point in working yourself that hard if you're not having fun doing it and if you're losing sleep over it. Just gotta find a balance. It's hard, but it it's gonna take time.

SPEAKER_03 39:47

Yeah. Sure. Speaking of balance, um, you are a student at PCAD. Um has your experience at benchmark apparel um and NACO uh do you find that influencing your studies at all?

SPEAKER_04 40:03

Absolutely. Um I've had a lot of projects where I'm kind of being put into a I guess mock business scenario. And kind of having a firsthand experience of what goes into that, that really helps. Um even if what I'm making in class is ultimately for class. Um like for example, there was one project I had in a class called Design and Culture. Um that actually wasn't a graphic design class, that was a design thinking class, which is another major offered at PCAD.

SPEAKER_03 40:46

Um But for the final thinking is a design thinking. Oh, design thinking.

SPEAKER_04 40:52

Okay. It it's kind of hard for me to explain, but it kind of just goes into I suppose graphic design is more design-oriented, while design thinking, a lot of that is analyzing target audiences.

SPEAKER_03 41:12

Ah, I see. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 41:14

Yeah, so if that makes sense. Yes. Um But I was taking this class because that's ultimately what I wanted to do. I want to learn more about how to address target audiences. And for our final project, the prompt was really loose. It was just we had to address, we had to make some sort of product and address some kind of culture. And this was very easy for me because I immediately thought to address the art student culture at PCAD, and I made three shirt designs for it. And that project was received really well. I was using firsthand knowledge I have of printing, which I'd learned pretty much at benchmark apparel. I'd never screen printed before working here, and also NACO, where I've seen firsthand what PCAD students like. And so that has really helped me be successful in class, not only in that class, but many others as well. Um so I think it's really important to seek out experience outside of class and work because those two things aren't gonna do it all for you. Um I can say put yourself out there so many times, but I think it really is important to put yourself out there. You shouldn't stop studying whenever you leave college or whenever you leave work. I think you should always keep seeking experiences outside of those. And for me, seeking those experiences has been in the form of NACO, where I actually know how to run a business. It's been trial and error, but I know how to do it. I know how to work with others and do it, I know how to produce products, what people like, and from that an experience outside of class and work, I've been able to implement those skills everywhere else. So it's been a huge um benefit for me.

SPEAKER_03 43:24

Okay. Now let's walk that back the other way. Has there been anything in class that you've learned that you've been able to implement immediately at benchmark apparel or not co?

SPEAKER_04 43:35

Totally. Um I think I mean design wise, there's a lot that I've I've learned. Um I've really honed in those skills, I think. And also as much as excuse me, as much as the things I'm doing at college are um like mock experiences, I'm not they're not actually giving. Me clients, I'm working for like an imaginary client. That's how it's doing. That's still experience, I think. And I'm also learning like legal things whenever it comes to the design industry that I didn't know beforehand. Um, and that's really important for benchmark apparel. Uh also um knocko, but knocko is uh more of a for fun thing, so we don't always have to worry about legal matters. But in benchmark apparel, I know I suppose when to say no to some orders, um which has been very, very important. Um and yeah, just how to manage like a workload, uh knowing how to manage my time better, I think school has been really, really effective in teaching me that because I'm I'm kind of a crammer. I I like to dedicate like a day to myself to just get a billion things done, and that's not great. So uh what I've learned in class is to really pace myself, and I can utilize that everywhere, especially at work and for my personal business.

SPEAKER_03 45:27

Sure. Yeah. I want to drill down on that a little bit. How do you know when to say no?

SPEAKER_04 45:34

Um I really need to, this is something that I've kind of had trouble all my life. I need to know when I'm getting tired of things. Um this kind of also goes into what we were talking about earlier about knowing when to not work yourself to the bone. Because I don't want work, work is important to me, and working somewhere that I enjoy is important to me. I don't ever want to put myself in the position where I hate coming into work. Um and I'm lucky enough to be here where I love coming in every day. But what I've also learned is I need to make it fun for myself. And if I'm, I suppose, stalling on orders that are maybe really, really big, like a 300-shirt order, that can be kind of intimidating. Um maybe if I'm I guess trying to rush orders. It's good to say no whenever another one is on the list. Um and know that if I try to attempt some orders, I'm probably gonna get to a point where I don't like coming into work anymore. So yeah. Being just really aware of how I feel all the time. That's something I'm constantly learning to do. Um, but it's been beneficial every time. There's really I guess for me, sometimes it's kind of a sense of pride that keeps me from saying no to orders because I have this thing where I think a lot of designers might relate, and a lot of people in general, um there's kind of a constant feeling of having to prove myself. And that's as beneficial as that can be whenever it comes to pushing yourself and pushing your work and what you do, it also really weighs down on you. Um especially when the people around you already think you're doing a good job. So knowing how I feel and when I'm getting exhausted and when I'm not enjoying what I'm doing anymore, that's when I know that I probably shouldn't add something else to the list.

SPEAKER_03 48:00

I think it's really interesting how you answered that because I was asking that question expecting to hear, oh, you know, if they're asking for a five-color design uh and you know, a two-day turnaround on X number of shirts, that's when I know to say no. Um, or you know, there's a red flag in the email from the client. Like I just know they're not gonna be a cooperative client, so I know to say no. Um I was expecting more of a technical answer like that. Um, but I think that is a deeper answer that you gave. Um because uh ultimately all of that technical stuff does revolve around the human at the center of it. Right. Um if if you're not in a space to like a uh a client or an order that you would normally take, if you're not in a space currently to take it, uh that's just as valid a a point to say no as a technical reason. Um yeah, so I think I think that's smart and ultimately probably a a more intuitive way of running a business um than just does it check the boxes, yeah, okay, then we're forging ahead.

SPEAKER_04 49:21

Right. It's sometimes we get, as you said, like five color orders um that I feel equipped to take on. And I'd love to take on orders like that because they help me hone in my skills. But sometimes even it could be like a big one-color order, something that's arguably easy to produce, but if there's already a lot on my plate, I can only push myself so much before it's just not enjoyable anymore. So I think that's equally, if not more important than the technical aspects, because sometimes the technical aspects can be tackled in the certain circumstances. And I think emotionally and physically it kind of works in tandem with that.

SPEAKER_03 50:23

Well, I uh there are many other questions I want to ask, um, but we should probably wind the conversation down. Um Olivia, what are we at time-wise? 53 minutes. Oh yeah. Yeah. Um Yeah. Just to wrap it up, I really appreciate your time today. Um thank you for all of your insight into uh the world of design, what it what it takes to get a college student to give you their money these days, um, and just running a business. Um really appreciate it. Anything else you want to add before you wrap up?

SPEAKER_04 51:10

Um thank you for having me, first and foremost. And um I suppose I just I want to say that I think sometimes the world can kind of be against you whenever you're creative and you're younger in trying to get into the business scene and the creative scene. Um and I think ultimately just pushing past your fears is the answer. Just overcoming those and putting yourself out in the real world and knowing that nothing's ever gonna fall in your lap. I think that's probably the biggest piece of advice that I would give to anybody in my position, because it's been very effective to me knowing that.

SPEAKER_03 51:55

Well, thank you.

SPEAKER_04 51:56

Thank you.