Shavonne Evans

In this episode, Brent Swift sits down with Shavonne Evans for a real conversation filled with insight, experience, and motivation. From business and leadership to personal growth and navigating challenges, this episode brings valuable perspective and authentic conversation you won’t want to miss. Tune in and be part of the discussion. 🎙️🔥 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Welcome to the Small Business Podcast. Brent Swift, your host. And today I'm here with Siobhan Evans. Huge fan and uh super excited that you're here and I have the opportunity to sit down and talk to you. Um this podcast is really just about business. It's really about community, it's about people. Um, it's kind of about how your role is in Norman and Oklahoma. And, you know, we just want to get to know you a little bit and like have a conversation. And I'm super excited and glad that you were willing to take the time and sit down and talk to me. And like, you know, I I really I don't know your history. Like, we kind of like met maybe six or eight years ago, right? When when I got my real estate license and I popped into Keller Williams, and then I was with Patrick and you were there, and like so I just kind of know your energy and I know your radar and kind of like where you kind of you know your circle, but I've never quite got to know you. And so I think this is a great opportunity for me to sit here and just kind of get to know you a little bit. And I'd I'd love to just, if you could don't mind, just telling me a little bit of your bio and your background and where you were born and tell me a little bit about you.

SPEAKER_01 1:10

All the things. Thanks for having me. So I was born on an army base in Killeen, Texas. It was called Darnell Army Hospital. I think it's called something else now. My parents were both military at the time. After they had me, my mom got out and did the reserves for 20 years, and my dad completely left the military. My dad is from Oklahoma City, so we moved here, lived with my grandmother for a couple of years, and then my parents bought a house on the south side of Oklahoma City. So I grew up there, um, went to I graduated from class in SAS. I have a little sister, and then I moved here to Norman. I went to OU. I wanted to be a physical therapist, then I wanted to be a psychologist, and then I didn't know what I wanted to do, and I felt that it was very expensive to continue to go to OU and not figure out what I wanted or not know what my path was. So I decided to take a break, ended up being a permanent break, never went back, um, got a job at Panera, became manager, decided. What year was college? College, I graduated in 2000. So I was there for about a year and a half and then um met like my lifelong friends, some of my best friends are from those days. I still hung out with them because that's what I realized. I didn't have to pay to not know what I wanted to do, and I could still hang out with those friends. So we still we all hang out today. I love that. Um, so yeah, I went to Panera, became a manager, and I started looking around thinking, I don't want to do this forever. Like this is this is hard. Not that real estate isn't hard, but this is hard, and I don't control anything about this. And I met my husband, he is from here, and I knew that I was gonna buy a house. So we bought a house, and I was talking to my realtor, and she said, I think you'd make a great realtor. And that's literally, I said, Well, I'll try it. And that's how I became a realtor.

SPEAKER_00 3:05

So, what year did you get your license?

SPEAKER_01 3:07

Twin 2013.

SPEAKER_00 3:10

Okay. All right. So you started in Norman as a realtor. Yes. And you were at, did were you at Keller Williams then?

SPEAKER_01 3:19

I've always been at Keller Williams. I was at what was called Green Meadow Now Summit in South Oklahoma City because I knew, like through a friend, one of her her colleagues, wives was a realtor. So I signed up with her, hung out with her a little bit. And then once I realized I was really a part of Norman, I moved down to the Norman office, but always with Keller Williams.

SPEAKER_00 3:43

But you're you've always been with Keller Williams as far as I you know remember. So okay, so tell me a little bit about your process. Like, as far as like let's talk go like straight to the customer side of it. Like your clients, are you? You know, for me, uh, you know, I can define mine pretty clearly. Like somebody finds my brand, finds my name, realizes that I've done these houses, they'll call me, ask my opinion, or they'll know ask me if I know of anything in the market for sale. And I generally, there's a lot of off-market stuff, and there's a lot of like, I know this is happening in the core area of Norman, just because of my history. What's kind of your uh like bread and butter black?

SPEAKER_01 4:21

Relationships. It it is purely relationships. It was really interesting when I first became a realtor. My husband was in the oil field. And then shortly after, within a year, I got pregnant. And so I was like a part-time, full-time realtor. And it was great. I sold, you know, I don't know, like maybe 10, eight to 10 houses a year while being a kind of stay-at-home mom, if you will. And it really just became a lot of word of mouth talking to other people. And I just had all those relationships. One thing that one thing that is constantly said about me is that I'm very calm. I don't always feel that way inside. However, it's it's a trait that people say about me. So one day a client called me and said, Oh my gosh, I had to call you. I just talked to my lender, I am stressed, and I knew you would calm me down. So I go to book club with my friends and I said, Isn't that weird what my client just said? And literally every person told a story of when I calm, when I just was calm with them. So I think that that is what attracts people to me, is that it's an overwhelming thing. It's it's hard, it's this permanent thing. It's not like, oh, I bought this shirt, I'm gonna take it back, right? I'm buying this house. And that's really been the feedback. So then that word of mouth gets out. So I'm like 99% repeat customers and referrals.

SPEAKER_00 5:45

Wow. Okay. Well, I mean, it does make sense that you're with your because you're you that's that's the energy that I feel with you as well. Like if you could just walk up and just that's like I feel like I know you, like, you know, and I really don't, you know. So tell me a little bit about like your family and like your you where do you are you guys? I know you live here in Norman, but like I how many kiddos do you have and stuff?

SPEAKER_01 6:07

Yes, I have two kids. So I knew that once I got married, my husband was never leaving Norman. So I said, I'm fine to live here as long as we can travel. So that's what we've done. But I have a daughter, Naeema, who is 11 years old, and then I have a son, Nico, who is six years old. Okay. So we have a great time. Um, Naeema's swimming, Nico does soccer. So a lot of, you know, picking out what do we need to eat for dinner and then get to the practice and those things. So that's that's what I just say a lot of times right now is that I'm in the thick of it. It's the most important thing, right? So if I'm showing houses, I may have to pay for someone else to show the houses to you so that I can be at whatever my kids are doing. My husband works at Dell, he's an IT. Um, he really loves it. He just got a promotion. Congrats. And that's truly, that's my family. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:02

So as far as your business goes and like trying to operate that kind of day to day, and with, you know, I I'm I totally understand like having kiddos and having a business and then having multiple businesses or things that you have to like manage and take care of. You know, is there some special like sweet sauce that you're able to like figure out like this is how we're gonna do this? Because, you know, I feel I feel like, you know, with my kiddos, a lot of like passing off. You know, when he was little, there was a lot of passing off because we know we have we shared an office and stuff like that. And it was always kind of back and forth, like, okay, you're gonna do this, I'm gonna do that. Correct. Yeah. It's a lot of organization. And I, you know, the office that I work in today, it's still the same. There's a lot of kiddos that are involved with the people that work there, and you know, there's like always this kind of scheduling that has to happen, right?

SPEAKER_01 7:51

Yes. It's really that I haven't figured it out. I show up where I can. My daughter knows. The thing that I really like is that I want to show my kids that I'm a mom, I'm a wife, I'm a community member, I have friends so that they understand that as well. So that if my h if my son marries a woman, like she gets to be this whole person. And my daughter sees that she gets to be a whole person. I thought about that after growing up because when you're little, your parents are just your parents. They're not people. And my parents, sure, they had friends and things, but I didn't see them go out and do these various things. So that's really important to me, while also knowing that they do come first. I won't make it to everything because that's part of them understanding mom has to work. Like that's how she pays for swimming, that's how she pays for these things. Right. But my daughter is the one that, hey, mom, I signed her up for the field trip. I don't know the date, but she knows like I'm going to make it a priority to come. Yeah. So that's really important to me. But as far as the scheduling, no, there's luckily we have two grandmas that are close and they love hanging out with them. So there are many times where can you take them here or can you pick them up? This just popped up. And then vice versa, where my clients know because I would, I would treat them the same way. If something happened with your kid, I want you to go take care of your kid. And I think that's a thing. I remember being asked this one time. I was teaching a first-time homebuyer class, and this girl raised her hand and she said, If your kid got sick and you were supposed to show me houses, what would you do? And I said, Well, I'd probably find someone else to show you houses if it was major and I needed to take care of her. I only had Naima at the time. And she said, Okay, what if that didn't work? And I just very firmly said, This goes for the entire class here, if you want to hire me. If something happens to my kid, they're coming before you every single day. Just like I would expect that of you. And I think that that's just a core value that I have. It's something I'm not gonna push back on. And my clients know that and they respect that. And if they don't, here's another story. I had someone call me at 8:30 in the morning. Hey, can you come over today at 11? We're thinking about listing our house. I said, I can, but I had a son. So at that time, Lucas was in the oil field, so it's just me and Nico. Naeem is in pre-K. Nico is about six weeks old. So I said, I have to bring this baby with me. And I brought the baby. I prefer, I prefer I got the comps ready, did all the things. I go over there, I do the whole presentation, they call me, they say we're not going with you. And I said, Oh, can I just ask why? Like what I always want to learn and do better. And they were like, the baby. And I was like, oh, okay. Really? Yeah. The baby. The baby. And I just was, I just said, Well, I hope that the other agent that had more time to prepare and did not have a six-week-old baby did just as much as I did or more. But it was very much that if if it's my kid, then yeah, we're not we're not a fit.

SPEAKER_00 11:06

Yeah, that's crazy. Well, I mean, I guess, you know, it does it's you know, today sometimes I look around and you think that, okay, this that that can't happen, but it it seems to be happening over and over again, you know, on so many levels. So um, so the community piece, I did serve with you on the historic commission for a little while. And uh, can you talk to me a little bit about your because you I know you're on the board of Norm Music Festival, and then also are you still on the historical commission? I am not. You're not, okay. No. So how long did you serve on that?

SPEAKER_01 11:39

I did one term. So the three year three years term. I started in 2020. So my first was all virtual when I first started. Yes. And did that for a while. It was great to get the insight, especially from the opposite side, and just to make me a better person when someone's looking to buy that type of house to understand the things that go into it. But then we did the AIM plan, the 20-year master plan for Norman. And I was co-chair of that, so I stepped off of the historical board so that I could have more time to focus on that. That was supposed to be a year-long project. It ended up being a two-year project. And um after that, or I got onto the Norman Music Festival board and then became the chair of that. So just like taking off something to go to the next.

SPEAKER_00 12:28

So, what year did you get on the NMF board?

SPEAKER_01 12:30

NMF board. This is my third NMF. Okay. So, yeah, so like 2024, 2023, 2024. I'm not 100% sure.

SPEAKER_00 12:39

But what do you do? What tell me a little bit about it? I mean, I'm sure it's a lot, but it's a lot. What do you do for it?

SPEAKER_01 12:44

I am very thankful for Sherry, our executive director, um, because she is just this person that moves, it feels effortlessly. It's not, I know that it's not, but she's been around Norman for so long that she knows the ins and outs and those things. But as the chair, really, what I'm trying to do is the festival was created by just a couple of guys. They were like, we want to shut down Main Street, put a stage up, and have some music. And fantastic, and it worked. I don't know the exact numbers, but I want to say 20,000 people came, 15,000 people, something like that. I mean, it was successful.

SPEAKER_00 13:22

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 13:22

And it's continued over the years. So NMF is now 18. So we're talking about we're old enough to vote and do those things. So that's kind of fun. But now one of the biggest things is that we are a nonprofit. So, how do we make this a governing board versus a fully working board? It will always be something where we have to work, but how do we now incorporate a festival team that helps put the festival together? The leg the logistics of getting four stages set up and 12 indoor venues all together. I mean, all of these different moving pieces, vendors, all of that coming together to where we are making decisions and calling and doing those things as opposed to being in the nitty-gritty of doing the work of getting this festival together. So that's been my biggest focus as the chair is to get, we're under the Norman Music Alliance to make it Norman Music Alliance, and then having a Norman Music Fest chair that then helps with the festival, all of the logistics. So, how does Norman Music Alliance bring in money to also have, like we've talked about having NMFU? So, like a Norman Music Fest university. How do we teach bands to make money doing this? To how do you navigate finding a manager that's good for you? Taxes, the boring stuff. You need all of that. And that's just something that a lot of people are passionate about is like, how do we grow this? And especially in Oklahoma, where we have some fantastic musicians, how do we help them with their longevity of being a band and not falling apart because of money or because of these just poor mistakes because they don't even know what they don't know.

SPEAKER_00 15:09

Sure. Yeah. Well, I mean, I could see that. Even being a you know, a creative, it's sometimes, you know, your brain doesn't necessarily work on the business side of things and you know, it's show business, right? So you have the show, and some people are really great at the show, and then you have the business, which is you know, the business side of making the show happen. And so I can see where that could definitely be uh, you know, an ad for for Norman Music Festival to be able to help musicians kind of understand the business side of the show. And um, I think there's you know, obviously there's obviously great musicians here and not only Norman but throughout Oklahoma, like you said. So it's kind of I I I'm I go and I kind of walk around and I go from kind of stage to stage, and I you know, I'm I'm kind of an early to bed kind of a guy. So, you know, by 10 o'clock, I'm I'm a little bit of zombie ready to go to bed. But um, yeah, I do make exceptions here and there. So but I've always I've enjoyed it. I I've I've I've gone, you know, not every single year, but I've spent, you know, I've been to most of them. So it's it's really cool. So um so the other piece that I was thinking about was like um besides your your community involvement, um, it seems to me like you're also from the real estate side, and you know, uh the real estate piece, you know, when I'm thinking about you, I I I think about you more in this way. I think about you as a person who is super welcoming, super engaging. You bring about a big energy and a big smile, and you're always like positive and upbeat. And I think that's why these folks are, you know, I think that's why your customers and your clients are attracted to you, and they like you you bring that and they is that something that you consciously do, or is that is that just kind of like who you are? Because it seems to me like every time I see you, there are people around you. Like every time I walk into an open house, there's a crowd, right? And there are people around you, and I think they're attracted to your energy and like what you're bringing, and also you're whip smart about all of these different areas. So I mean, I think you become you've become like a resource in the real estate community, not only for somebody like me, but for for realtors that are just starting out that that don't that haven't been, you know, you know, in the water, so to speak. And so it seems like um tell me a little bit more about that because it, I mean, I just saw you like two weeks ago at the at an open house, and I walk in and you're like, there's people, you know, you have a crowd. And it it's you every when I left and walked out, you also had a crowd, you know. So I I love that about you and I I admire that about you. I think that's just a that's a quality, and I just if you don't mind just sharing a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_01 17:50

Yeah. The first thing that I think of is my grandmother. My grandmother, I think for so many of us, our grandmothers are the person that loves you unconditionally, right? Your parents have to raise you. So you feel like they don't know me, they don't understand me, but my grandmother gets me. One thing that she always said was you never know what the person next to you is going through. And if if they're mean, if they're just not kind, or like we I just don't know what they're going through. And so I just need to be kind to them. And I think that that is something that I consciously did after she told me in high school, my my mom would say, God, you just get all the weirdos, don't you? And I would say, but it but it was like, here's the person that doesn't have a lot of friends, and I would connect with them or talk with them because it who are they? It it doesn't matter. And so I think just being a lot less judgmental, and by no means am I perfect. I judge people, I do that. Like I'm a human being. We all do that. But I I think that, and then like Maya Angelou is a big person where it says people may not remember who you are or your name, but they remember how you made them feel. And so just those two things are just really big to me because it's something that I care about. Navigating Norman, being new into Norman and getting into like the business world and things like that. It definitely was like, you're not from here, you're an outsider. Norman definitely has a very core community. And I remember being just, I don't want to say like terribly mistreated, but it definitely was like, who are you? I don't know you, I'm not talking to you. And I remember how it feels to be in that room and be by myself and a bit isolated. And I don't want other people to feel that way. So if I see someone that is isolated, I do tend to gravitate them to go, come join in, come talk to us, because I don't want them to sit there and maybe even have a negative feeling about a space or real estate or Norman music or any place of Norman to where if I can help them just to introduce them into some to some space where they can feel more like themselves and just be themselves, that's just that's really important to me. I have a why and I think about it a a lot is just, and especially with people of color, being a black woman, Norman doesn't have a ton of black people. But how do I walk into these spaces and hold the door open for other people to come into? That's my why. That's why I do most of the things that I do.

SPEAKER_00 20:36

Yeah. Talk about that just a little bit more.

SPEAKER_01 20:38

Yeah. So whenever I again married a guy from Norman, was like, we're gonna be here. So I started plugging in. Who, where do I vote? Who do I vote for? Where are my kids gonna go to school? All of these different things just became really important to me. So when I got into the business community, I noticed there weren't many people that looked like me. And I I just had to navigate that, right? And and people, I stood out because I do look different. Not that I look different, but being a black woman, it is just it's I'm a different person in those spaces. So when I realized that there were probably other people that came before me, but couldn't get past the looks or the isolation. And I want to be very clear, this is not not all people, right? We have to say that, but there were people that very much welcomed me, but there were some spaces that weren't as welcoming. And that's when I thought, how do we change this? How do I help be a source to open these doors? How do I change it to where um other people can see this? So uh oh my gosh, I just lost his name. I talk to him often. The first black person that bought a house here in Norman. Oh. Um Yeah, it's right there. George Henry. George Henderson. Dr. George Henderson. I can stand here and shake his hand.

SPEAKER_00 22:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:06

I get to sell real estate in Norman. Like that's a big I mean that I'm just standing there with history. And I and that's the first when I first met him, I said, thank you so much for navigating that and going through that because now I get to sell houses here. Like, like you did that so that I could stand here. And that's what I would love is that that next person. I don't have to meet them. They don't have to thank me. They're none of that. But like, how cool is that that he changed the trajectory of Norman to where I can now be asked to sit on a podcast because I'm a realtor in Norman, whereas he couldn't even buy a home here.

SPEAKER_00 22:46

Well, he held the door, right? He held the door. No, you're now you're you're holding the door. I love that. Um, I I I kind of have a little bit of a different role in the like my community involvement. A lot of my I've lived kind of in a shadow almost. Like people don't really get, you know, and I've learned all of this from other people as as kind of time has passed, you know, people don't really know who I am, they don't really understand like what my role is in buying and selling these houses and why, and they don't understand the deck building company and the renovation company and the roofing and like the all of these companies, and like, but they don't really know me. But what's interesting is they definitely have formed an opinion of me. And so there are times that sometimes I'll I'll walk into a space or a room or I'll meet somebody and they're like, I had no idea you. And I'm like, What I mean, of course you didn't because you don't know me. So I love that you've kind of like elbowed your way in, you've created space, and then also you've created opportunity. So, and I think that for me, being I'm a little bit more um, I think we're the opposites in this way where you're outgoing and you know, you're you're not afraid to like walk into a space and kind of own it and then hold the door open. I'm kind of just the opposite. I'm kind of a I'm more a shy, and I I really don't want to put myself out there. And so I don't like jump into like these spaces very comfortably. Like if I'm in the room, I'm usually invited to talk. You know, I'm not, I don't really just show up and like say, hey, I got an opinion about this. Very rarely, unless I'm super passionate about something. Uh, I remember a sorority house was tearing down one of the these beautiful houses on another corner in campus. And I did go to that meeting and I did tell them my opinion, and I knew half the people in the room. And then I was like, I'm gonna follow this all the way through. And uh, you know, that that that took a lot of courage because not something that I I mean, because I'm passionate about the the obviously the you know, historical districts and historical housing, and I hated to see another parking lot put up in campus, but so and but I'm the opposite of of you in a way where I don't necessarily always jump in the middle of of uh the the business community. I mean, I I wasn't involved in in anything for decades, right? And so it's just been kind of recently that we've more as a business, and it's really not me, it's people in my office have begun to join and go to the probably pushing you out of your comfort zone.

SPEAKER_01 25:20

Way out of my comfort zone.

SPEAKER_00 25:21

So I I certainly admire your ability to like just to kind of walk in those spaces and own them. And I've seen it firsthand. So it's one of those things that I really admire about you. So let's let's dive into just a little bit of like the business side of like so I I generally like to talk about like one of what do you think was like maybe one most your successful transactions that you've done versus your worst. I mean, we all have had our worst, and I've we don't really want to relive those, but I mean talk about that if you don't mind, just a little bit about like because it I feel like there are we have success stories. There's there's a lot of events in our lives, but can you just name you know a couple of those that stand out for you?

SPEAKER_01 26:02

So I think about I just came from a fair housing event, and a lot of wealth is generated through real estate. We know that. We know that a renter is I think I think an owner is eight times has eight times more net worth than a renter. I mean, it's a huge disparity. And I luckily, my grandmother owned her home, my parents owned their home, so I just knew to own a home. Like that's what you do. But a lot of people don't know that. So I think about a woman during COVID. You remember COVID? We cash was coming from everywhere. People were doing 50,000 over asking price. It was just, I mean, someone would come and say, Can you list my house for this? And I'd be like, let's try it. Let's see what's what we can do. And during that time, I had a woman, she was a single mom with two kids, and she, I want to say her price point was like 150 and under. So that's investor territory. That an investor can buy that all day, every day in their sleep. We put in an offer, we had we had put in multiple offers. We put in this offer, the owner was a realtor, and she wanted to give it to not an investor. So she had multiple offers, but they were all investors, and then this one that was a person. So we get in there, it turns out her credit, something came up on her credit, and it was way worse than it should have been, and we were not gonna figure this out. We switched to a bank loan. We have to reduce the price by $12,000, all these different things. And just luckily, that seller said, I was in the exact same position she was in when I bought this house. I will do I will reduce it $12,000. I will do whatever repairs need to be done. Wow. And I just think about that changed this woman's life. Yeah. We just changed her life because the person that was selling it was at her lake house now and owned a different house. I mean, just here she was, this woman, exactly where she was however many years ago, and she was helping out the next person. So that is one of my I want to say one of the biggest success stories of just like, man, we just kept through it. We kept going. And then through COVID, having those first-time buyers, um, people talk about what they sold and what they did and the volume and the numbers. And yeah, I had great years those years. But no one talks about writing 22 offers for one family, which I did until one finally stuck and we got them into a home. And those are just so important. Every transaction is important. Don't get me wrong. These are big moves, these are big decisions. It's a lot of money being spent. But when I can get that person that never thought they could do it, like Siobhan, I don't have a credit score, I don't have money, I don't have these things. Well, let's sit down. Let's talk about it. Let's get you with a lender and just even see where you are. There are agencies that have grants that can help you with your down payment. There are, there are all these different avenues that we can walk through. I think my longest client, the where we sat down and talked about it, was four years later. They got their credit together, they got their credit together. I think we ended up doing down payment assistance. They did these various things, but and I mean, I think they were life continues to life, whether you're set a goal or not. And it was four years later. I just stayed in contact with them, like this will happen, this will happen. What's fantastic is that during COVID, they got so much equity, they actually sold that house and now live in an even bigger house. Sure. So I mean, those stories are they're big. They're they're just huge of like when I see those kids, like this changes their lives, like security, being not being kicked out. I just had a friend whose parents lived in a house for 35 years. Again, I told you, I've always known to own a house. It's it's common, not like in my family, that's just what we did. So I assumed, because that's what we do, it was like, oh, they owned their house for 35 years. But no, the person who owned it passed away. The kids didn't want the house, so they sold it. And these people who had lived in a home for 35 years, raised their children, all of that had to be out within a month.

SPEAKER_00 30:40

Oh no.

SPEAKER_01 30:41

And just, yeah, so just giving that person a permanent place to stay that's theirs, and they can paint the wall black if they want, or they can do these various things and have as many dogs and do whatever they want to do. It's just it's a bit of a humbling experience to think like I got to play a role in that. Like, like it could just just to think about where their kids can be two or three generations later.

SPEAKER_00 31:08

Yeah. Well, I can see, like, in my, you know, anytime we're doing a transaction, it's generally, you know, a family or whatever, and they're going from point A to point B, or it's an investor that's picking up this piece for the first time, or maybe it's their fifth one or whatever, but it's always like it's a it's a big deal, right? It's like the biggest transaction that we're gonna make, and and we're helping people navigate these waters. And, you know, for me, even though I've done so many hundreds of them, it doesn't really, you know, the importance of just this deal right here for this person right now is the one that we're working on and the one that we're focused on. And you know, I you know, up here's you know, almost want to cover the microphone before I even ask this question, but how are you with the the new rules like that came out last, you know, I guess it was last July, right? Somewhere in there. Um, the the buyer broker agreement, and then you know, what are your thoughts on that? I mean, I know there's a a bill in the running through the Oklahoma Senate uh whatever it's called, um, to kind of like cancel that a little bit. Um and I, you know, I know that Keller Williams kind of settled that that that that lawsuit kind of on a higher level and um so did some some other you know bigger companies they they kind of settled before it got too too ugly. But at the end of the day, like what are your thoughts on that? I mean, I can I'm happy to share my thoughts. I'm just kind of curious because you know, you got to navigate these roads completely differently up front than we did for decades. Like in my experience, decades, you know, buying and selling houses was you know a completely different experience. And there was, you know, two or three page contracts, and and now there's like 17 documents just to like get you to the door, you know. So tell me a little bit about your thoughts on all that.

SPEAKER_01 32:56

I definitely was a bit lazy in that. I didn't do buyer brokers, but again, I have repeat and referrals. So it was like, I know these people are going to work with me. I didn't really worry about it, and or if they didn't, maybe we just weren't a fit. Like I am not going to try to hold on to someone because their experience should be as pleasurable as it can be. Sometimes they're not, even though we're friends and all the things, sometimes they're hard. But I do feel sometimes I feel frustrated on the fact that just agents weren't doing their job and being saying, like, hey, this is how the commission is split. This is what we're doing, this is how it's happening. And and so someone felt duped and to the point that a lawsuit came forward. I think that that is where my frustration lies of I don't know, just not I in real estate you have to tell people really hard things sometimes. And it sucks. Like it's awful what you have to tell them. But we just have we have to be honest. We have to tell them these things. And so it's frustrating more so that people weren't saying the hard things. So to navigate and say, Yeah, I can show you that house, but I have to have you sign this, and then I need to really go over it so you understand it. And then there's automatic pushback sometimes, and it's like, I I know, I know, I hear you, but this is the only way that I can do this. I have to be a responsible person, and here's what's happening. So for the, I mean, for the most part, it's been fine, but there are times where people are like, Well, no, I didn't say I was gonna buy it. And it's like, this isn't a contract to buy, and oh yeah, just the extra conversations. Yeah, what's your take?

SPEAKER_00 34:40

You know, for me, I look at it and uh I mean, I I certainly appreciate like what it's trying to do and its mechanism and what it's for. Um, but at the end of the day, uh, I think about the person that uh, you know, that maybe comes into town, they hear about you as a person, as an agent, they call, they say, hey, I'm interested in this house. And and then, you know, the first rattle out of the bag is like, I need you to sign this digitally before we get here, before I can show you this house. And um, and it's just all they want to do is see the house. And I want to kind of go on a first date, you know, as a realtor. I mean, I definitely, I mean, I don't mind it. I mean, yes, you can put just a one-time showing, but it just seems like it's another step that we have to do that um, you know, uh for me it's it's a source of irritation. Like I don't I just want to show somebody a house. If they like it, great. If they don't, I mean that's no harm, no foul. But also if they go down the road, here's the other thing as a buyer and a person that's bought hundreds of houses. Like I get the deal. And I also understand what it's like to call the listing broker or the listing agent and have a conversation with them about that property. You might have a little bit different insight than you do if you call your agent and say, Hey, can you ask them about this?

SPEAKER_01 35:59

Right.

SPEAKER_00 36:00

Then all of a sudden it's like the whisper chain, right? Like what gets back to you might not be exactly what you were looking for or the right information or whatever. And so I sometimes, especially as a buyer, you know, I am one of those folks that loves to, you know, and historically I've developed a reputation to get the listing agent to call me. And so in the late 90s all through the 2000s, right? It was like I would, I mean, I can name 10 realtors. They would list a house before the sign went in the yard, they were calling me because they knew I was a buyer and a closer. And I was able to also get the story a little bit more accurately and a little bit more like this is what I'm going after. This is what I'm buying. So, you know, um, you know, at this point, I feel like I'm getting older, you know. So I mean, my my it, so I I'm learning, you know, I'm learning to like this. Well, this is just new. And like I'm looking at a house in Santa Fe, and so I I have an agent in Santa Fe. I know her, she's lovely. I mean, I've looked at these houses, you know, but it every time I go out there, I'm updating my buyer or brother's agreement with her. Um, and if I bought anything there, yes, of course I would go through her. But uh it, you know, as an agent, it it it also it sometimes you just want to go on one date with somebody, show them the house, and maybe they're not even a fit, so you wouldn't really want even a commitment beyond that.

SPEAKER_01 37:21

Well, another perspective too is that you do have buyers now that are calling the listing agent directly. And at the and the listing agent doesn't have their best interest in in mind, but they don't have to sign something to go see it with the listing agent. And that is a source of frustration because you you just want to you want to work with a person that you trust. And sometimes you want to tell them like you have to think about this. They're not necessarily picking you because of whatever. Or I've I've had people during the height of the chaos where they're like, oh, I figure I'll work with you because then the seller will be more apt to it. It's like, no, not really. I'm gonna present your offer just like I would anyone else. There are agents, every industry has people that are sleazy and not great. And so I just think about that of you have a person that's just calling on their own. They don't know how to navigate, they don't know what they're doing. And I've been that realtor that's come in afterwards and go, oh my goodness, yeah, that should not have happened. No, you had a right to do this and they didn't tell you about it because they wanted to make their seller happy. So that that is another thing that I think about now is that is people going directly to the listing agent and just jumping around and hearing various things from different people. So they're not educated on the biggest purchase, biggest transaction of their life.

SPEAKER_00 38:45

Yeah. Well, that's I think that for like the consumer, I get that there's a protection mechanism here trying to protect the consumer. And I think that that's like I mean, I get that part of it. Um, and I I'm curious how this is kind of all gonna fall out over the course of the the next you know couple of years and kind of where it goes. And it seems like it's kind of ever evolving and ever changing. And I mean, real estate and real estate law has kind of always kind of been that. And I think that you know, as we move forward, it's gonna be interesting to see like from the state level what that looks like. And then if you work for Keller Williams what that looks like, it's gonna probably be exactly the same thing you're doing now. Keller Williams is gonna acquiesce and go, oh yeah, you don't have to do that anymore. You know what I'm saying? Because too much legal exposure at this point. So, but uh I was you know, I was kind of shocked when I heard that. It was a couple weeks ago. I was in a real estate class and uh broker's class, and it was like when he mentioned it, I was like, really? Like that seems like kind of counterintuitive to where we were where we were going and it's changing. So talk about like if if you know, and we'll we'll wrap this up here in just a little bit, but um I know you don't really like if from a marketing and sales strategy, you you're really just you're networking, and that's kind of your that's kind of your Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:05

I drive I one of my things that I say is I'm authentic. So one thing that I talk about is I try to I show up as myself every day. And we've talked about that a little bit, of of just when I walk into the office, it's not, oh my gosh, what mood is she in today? What's gonna happen? Now, my husband or kids might think that, but not so much in the day-to-day world. So that's just something that I really think about always being. So on my social media, when my daughter turned three, because three-year-olds are awful little human beings, they're pushing boundaries and they're doing things, and it's just like, oh my gosh. When I had my son, I went, Why did I do this again? I mean, I literally like three-year-olds are crazy. But I used to put that on Facebook like, this is what my daughter did today. Is that not wild? Like, or she said this about me. A memory just came up where my son asked my husband if he could watch YouTube. And he said, Ask your mom. And I said, No, you can't watch YouTube. And he said, Dad, can you just answer? I mean, so I put those stories on Facebook. I mean, I think my kids are cute, I think they're beautiful. And but I I like telling the true life, like, here's what it's like to be a mom. And it's really something that's starting now. I feel like women definitely couldn't do that. You can't talk bad about your children or or things going on. And and the amount of people that would DM me, like, oh my gosh, my kid did the same thing. Sure. Or I love that you put that out there. My dad went to a funeral and saw, I want to say it's his cousin. And he said, Oh, I I heard you were friends on Facebook. My daughter mentioned it. And he said my name, which is Siobhan Evans, and then he said, um, she said, No, I don't know that person. Or no, he said Shabon Buckner. That's what it was. And he goes, Oh, I'm sorry, she's married Siobhan Evans. And she said, Oh, the realtor with the baby. So it's like I spoke just enough about real estate, but also spoke about my real life of being a mom and these different things going on because those are two identities that I hold. Sure. So that really, I mean, it is marketing in a way. Of course, everything we're putting out to consume via social media is your marketing. I don't care if you're in business or not. I'm looking at social media going like, oh man, what's going on with this person? Or what are they doing? And so that's what I just want to be is like, yes, I'm a realtor and I have kids that are semi-feral, like at times. And that's what we that's what we can put up because I just want to be a very real, authentic person so that I don't know, you've met the person. I've met the realtor where I'm like, you look nothing like the picture on Facebook. I didn't know how to recognize you. And I I never want to do that. I never want to be that.

SPEAKER_00 43:01

Yeah. Well, it just seems like social media has become like, you know, it's your brand, it's who you are, you know. And I I I kind of struggle with this because like my my personal page, you know, I can like put all the personal stuff and the travel and the hit this and then that. But on the business side, it feels very like structured and rigid. And I know other people that have that are also realtors or or in construction, and they're a little bit more like their life and their story and kind of what's happening in their world. And it just keeps people top of mind. And I I I I I think I wish I did a better job of just because if you're top of mind and somebody does have a real estate need, then you're gonna be there as in the story talking about your kiddos or whatever. So I think that there's you know, and there's so many podcasts out there about like how to develop your own personal brand and as you're growing forward. And I I didn't know I was building a brand, you know, when I was 27 years old and bought my first house or whatever, and you know, went on to do all these things, right? I I didn't know that I was building a brand until somebody said back to me, Oh, you're you're the guy that does those houses, or you're the guy that does this and it with with the houses. And um, and that I I kind of like, yeah, I became kind of the guy that did the campus houses, right? Those homes.

SPEAKER_01 44:18

You definitely have a brand. I I was gonna talk about that earlier of the same thing where I would see Brent Swift. Here's Swiftcoat, here's all of these, like I just see his name all around. And it's like, who is this guy? Like, and then you you put these biases into your head of like, well, he's probably some super wealthy guy that's a jerk and I don't want to meet him or that. Sure. And then I meet you and I'm like, oh, he's just this down-to-earth, like we're going to Midway Delhi and having a sandwich and doing these various things. So it is funny because you definitely have a brand. You definitely do, whether you're putting it on social media or not. But I think your longevity also becomes your brand because you've been around long enough that just the sign says, Oh, I know this will be quality or this will have this certain aesthetic. And and it is very much like if if you go into house, you can be like, Brent has touched this. Like he has touched this house. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:12

Yeah. Well, I definitely have a passion for it. And I kind of, you know, I think as I've gone along in my career and I've done these houses and I've worked on them, and as you know, I I've it was a passion project for me. I was like real passionate about restoring homes. And, you know, in the beginning, there was just the word flipped wasn't even in the radar for 20 years. That's kind of a recent term, really, to me. Um, I was in the restoration business and you know, restoring these houses. I felt like I had a almost a duty and a responsibility to like do it correctly. And the money was I hope no bankers are listening, but kind of secondary, it was really the passion of putting it together. And then that drove these prices in the square foot, you know, because I you know, I'd be done with something and I would have X amount of dollars invested in it. If I was gonna make anything, it was gonna be above market and somebody was gonna have to come out of pocket to buy it. Um, and I so I just but I did it over and over again too because I became passionate about it. Right. And uh then I, you know, we as we go along, you know, um, it just does be kind of become who and what you are. But people do form these like opinions of who you are and what they think you are, and you know, when they meet you, and then I I often get that when they meet me. They're they're like, I this is a true story, and I'll kind of you know, whatever. But I went over on um, I'm working on this street right now in Ponka. Oh, okay. And I get a call, and so I get uh I go over there and I get out. I dress real similar to what I have on today. I'm wearing you know Doc Martin's and a pair of jeans and a black t-shirt. And I, you know, I get up to the I'm just about to knock on the door in this. She opens the door and she goes, I thought you would look completely different than this. I thought you'd be way more put together. And I was like, What do you mean, put together? Like, where does that where did that come from? Like, I guess you know, because she had something in her mind of what I would look like, you know, and I get out of the car. And, you know, so I that's kind of one of my funnier stories of a customer that had something in their mind of what I was supposed to look like when I got to their house, and I just show up in a pickup truck and put out my you know, jeans and t-shirt.

SPEAKER_01 47:21

And I think we're getting a away from that a lot too, where people, you have to be in a suit to be successful, or you have to dress this certain way to be this. I remember someone, it was an older realtor, and I usually wear jeans, a shirt, a sweater. I try to dress presentable, but you know, it's like I'm here to work, I've got I've got things to do. Or if I'm walking an acreage with you, I'm glad I had on my tennis shoes today. And she said, she said something like, Well, I think you need to dress up more. I forget what she even said, but I said, when I go to Walmart on Saturdays, people still know who I am. Whereas there are some people that I see I've ran into where I'm like, whoa, like that is not That's not what you looked like yesterday. Yes, I have never seen you like this. And I'm the person whose my face is showing it. So I know I have the initial reaction, and then I'm just like, oh my gosh, I'm taken aback because you are always so polished. Like you have this perfectionism about you. And I I just don't want to do that. It's like I'll have it for one day and then the next day I'm showing up too.

SPEAKER_00 48:33

Seems like too much work to me.

SPEAKER_01 48:35

It is, it is. So I I do see us moving away from that of like, oh man, I still trust this person in a pickup and docs and jeans because I've seen I've seen what he can do as opposed to I have to show up in like as a 10 so that I can show you that I have knowledge. Right.

SPEAKER_00 48:57

So we're gonna close this out, but I you know, is there anything like like anything that you just anything you want to talk about? Is there anything out there that you're thinking of right now that's on your radar that not a lot.

SPEAKER_01 49:12

I thank you. I mean, I feel that I still have a bit of like imposter syndrome sometimes where people say, like, oh, will you come on this podcast or will you do these different things? And I think, me? So again, I just thank you for doing that. I thank you for just giving me a space to talk and and even asking questions that make me realize a little bit better who I am as we always are evolving and saying and just figuring out who we are. So I just appreciate the opportunity.

SPEAKER_00 49:42

Well, you're a rock star in my world, you know, to be honest. I mean, I've seen I've seen you at at, you know, over the years, like performing at a really high level with not only the historic commission, but in real estate and the community and now Norman Music Festival, which I didn't even know you were doing that until recently. And you know, also within within the real estate community, I think, you know, from from an outsider looking into your world, you know, you also have a lot of you carry a lot of like, you know, like you you're at a different level than most of us when it comes to like understanding and participating and you know being a part of all these different groups and organizations and you're constantly getting the education and the training. I mean, you would be a way better agent to hire than me because you have all of this knowledge, right? And I feel like that's be and it's because you continue to show up and you continue to work and you're in the right rooms and you're talking to people, and you know, I admire that. I really do. I admire you as a person. I mean, I the people that I have on here, I I generally have a relationship with, and you were kind of like somebody that I really I know, but I don't really know. And so I was super like I was talking to Grady and he was like, You should ask, you know, and I was like, Oh my gosh, it was a great idea, you know. So I'm really glad I did, and I'm really glad you you were able to take the time and and and come and sit down and chat with me a little bit about real estate and you know your business and your family and your community efforts. And I I really admire you a lot. So thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 51:15

I thank you. Thanks so much. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 51:17

All right.