School Stories: The Data Set You Should Never Ignore

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In this episode of Data in Education, I had a great conversation with Patrick Mongrain, a friend and fellow education data enthusiast who's all about building lasting systemic change. With a decade of experience as a history and leadership teacher, MTSS coach, and a restorative justice specialist, Patrick has a wealth of knowledge. He's passionate about moving past "shiny objects" in education to focus on the instructional practices at the heart of it all. We talked about why data and coaching are so powerful, and why I agree with his mission.

Learn more about Patrick Mongrain at EdChanger.com

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Transcript

0:49

Monering with a decade of experience as a history and leadership teacher and MTSS coach, a restorative justice specialist, and now working in the professional learning department for Vancouver Public Schools. He has a wealth of knowledge to share. Patrick is passionate about moving beyond the shiny objects in education to build a lasting systemic change. We're going to dig into what it truly means to build a culture of data and coaching, and why he believes instructional practice is at the heart of it all, and why I agree. Patrick, welcome to the show. Yeah, thank you. Thanks, Jessica. Yeah, so I, I gave a very brief overview there, as I usually do, but I'd love to hear a bit more about your, your background in education, starting from the beginning. To now. Great. Um, I'll start with, I guess that, I think my first point or my first idea is that I think that in education, that really instructional practice is the most critical element. Students spend what, 80% of their time, 85% of their time in the classroom with the teacher and classroom interactions make up most of the interactions in schools. And I think I learned early in my career. How critical instructional practice was? I, you know, as a young teacher, I think I was mediocre at best. And um, in fact, sometimes I'll see, I just ran into a parent of a student of mine my first year, yesterday, and I kind of just felt uncomfortable and kind of wanted to apologize. Um, and. I think yeah, uh, you know, I quickly learned watching some amazing teachers around me and then trying to like grab as many activities or strategies as I could cu learn my curriculum. And as I built that toolbox up, like I just felt like my brain was more like chaos. Uh, and then what I learned pretty quickly was it wasn't the, what those teachers were teaching, although that is important. It was how they did it, how they interacted with their students, and how they installed routines and all of those things. And so I slowly learned to emphasize the how of teaching and learn. That's kinda where I think the magic happens. Yeah, that makes total sense. Um, and I had very, very similar first year where I was just, you know, taken in as much as I could from the teachers who were having success around me. Um, but it is a lot and I. You know, it's funny when I talk about like data use and stuff, I am, I always have to remind people, I'm like, you guys, I was not like an expert at this when I was in the classroom either. It's all about like growing and learning new ways of doing things. Um, and I had a couple strategies that worked really well. Um, but that doesn't mean that I was the best teacher in the building. Like, we all have our strengths. Um, and, and so I did there, I'm, I'm kind of glad that I don't live in Chicago anymore and I've not ran into any of the parents or students and I'm glad to be like, oh, I'm sorry. But you know what's funny is I forget this all the time. I just remember this. So my first year I taught freshman math. My third year I taught junior math. I was getting those same students that I taught my first year of teaching back in my class for junior math, and I was like. Oh, shoot. I can only blame myself. Yeah. Sounds like a great opportunity to prove yourself though, right? Yes, it was. I was glad that, at least at that point I had learned much more and it was me who had the ability to kind of bring them up to speed and stuff. But, um, I forget that story all the time. But yeah, it's kind of a, a unique situation where you get to feel the pain of, um, you're inexperienced early on. That's for sure. Yeah, no, I, that's exactly, I say all the time, uh, teachers learn things painfully, and that sounds a little painful. Relationships are so critical, right? Um, yes. Yeah. Yeah. And you do, you know, you learn some strategies, but also, like, the story I tell is, I remember maybe it was my third or fourth year, I went to the Socratic seminar training. So circle, academic circle discussions at my dish. I missed two days of work and went to this training. And we had this amazing training where we participated in a seminar. Um, we got a document about the science of learning. You know, the teacher gave some investigative questions and I was like, this is amazing. Like, I'm doing it with my students next week. Uh, so I think I got some things together over the weekend. Monday did a little prep work with my kids, and then Tuesday I throw my students in a seminar, give them an invest, put an investigative question on the board, and I'm like, talk about it. And you can guess exactly what seventh graders did, like when they were first staring awkwardly at each other in a circle. Um, it was painful, right? But then I learned, right, you. Start the seminar with like a fun, safe, get to know you question, like what superpower would you choose? And then maybe you play a circle game to make students feel comfortable and then maybe even deeper, you pre-teach them Costas levels of thinking or depth of knowledge stems. And then when they start asking the questions, then it's more comfortable. Or you pre-teach them how to paraphrase each other so they kind of can roll into what they're gonna say. So. Again, I learned like those routines that you have for circles and um, how you positively interact with students in the circles, those are the things that made that strategy from like the most painful and awkward strategy I ever used, maybe to some of the best moments I have teaching. Right. Um, so yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's um, it's interesting'cause I feel like as teachers, you know, we've always. Been met with that moment where it's like we try something new and we're so excited about it, and then it just goes so poorly and then it becomes, you know, the decision of like, do I go back to what's comfortable or do I do what you did? And realize that there's some stuff that needs to come before that and we need to kind of work our way up to it and put a little bit more, uh, thought into planning and getting the students ready. Um, and it's such a tough decision when you're in the middle of it. So it sounds like. Uh, you went through with it and it, it ended up paying off, so that's cool. Yeah, I think lucky enough in that situation, you know, teaching six classes, I remember four or five of the discussions were great and I was like, this is amazing. But there was one or two that were super uncomfortable. Um, so I remember thinking like, what was so good with those classes? Like, I wanna do this with everybody. And reflecting and kind of, you know, taking, taking ownership over my part of it, um, to slowly get better. Right. And that's the, I think the, in fact the kind of two points I make about instructional practices is I always use the quote systems equals hope. I think when you have a system of practices in a classroom, that's really step one. And so I've kind of created. Um, a specific system for another reason for coherence, but that starts with community and relationships, practices, intentionally planning routines, teaching expectations. Those are kind of the foundation. And then while you're observing students or supervising, how do you provide positive feedback, corrective feedback, and opportunities to respond? Um, and then my last practices is targeted support strategies. That's kind of that MTSS in the classroom. Mm-hmm. Um, and so the way I phrase it is, is that again, that quote, systems equals hope. If you have a classroom that is, has really strong routines, but no positive feedback, that might be orderly, but feel cold, right? Yep. If you flip that and you have, you know, a ton of positive feedback and great relationships, but no routines, that could be fun, but could also be chaos, right? And so like that system gives you hope in like kind of diagnosing, um, you know, my class feels contentious. I need to slow down and build community, or my class feels cold. I need to increase the positive feedback. Um, so I've kind of, I've not kind of, I've developed that system for that reason. I think that, you know, when I was thrown into that seminar and I didn't really have an intentional plan for. My system. Um, I had the questions, I had the routines, I had a lot in place, but what I hadn't done in that situation is built community in that circle first, and it felt contentious and awkward. And so I started doing that. I was able to kind of diagnose and install a practice that made things better. Um, so that's kind of my first point as always, like systems equal hope and you can make those diagnosis and quick changes. Um, it can support a classroom. Yeah, I love that. I love the breakdown of that. Um, do you have like a, do you have that written down somewhere or some kind of like matrix or something where it shows like, I feel like that would be beautiful. Yeah, I mean, I have YouTube videos and slideshows, um, and it's all there. Which, um, that, you know, that matrix is, um, and it's a chapter in my book, that idea, right? Um, but, um, I kind of have two foundational matrixes I go with, with those practices, Uhhuh. That's one is like how you, which practices do what in a classroom, um, and how the classroom feels if it's not installed. Um, and then the other one is, is that what I. You know, kind of one of my main points is, is that, um, you know, I'm lucky enough in my job right now, I've kind of a cool role where I spend about a third of my time at the district office working at systems. A third of my time, actually mostly teach in classrooms now, which is cool while I'm coaching, and then a third of my time working with principals on building systems. And the way that I phrase it is, is that I'm lucky enough, I get to see the incredible things happening everywhere, right? At all levels of my school district. But I, what I also get to see is kind of this feeling of crisis everybody has. And you know, I think we in education unintentionally have created that feeling of crisis by. We care so much for students and we try to install these initiatives and components to our system to support students, but we've kind of created this chaos or disjointedness at least, um, that looks like for teachers, you know, a new initiative every three to nine months that they have to learn. And then they do it and maybe even don't even fully install it, and then something new comes down the pipe and there's this constant feeling of initiative fatigue. Um, and so I've developed that system very intentionally to consider some of the really big initiatives that I've learned in the last few years. So, for example, um. Like trauma informed instruction. The two most critical points of a student or needs for a student impacted by trauma are having a relationship with somebody at school and knowing the school, going to school, knowing exactly what to expect. So community building practices and routines. And by the way, the biggest activator for a student impacted by trauma is corrective feedback that doesn't work for them, right? So, um. MTSS is my first seven practices, plus that first wave of tier two in the classroom. Um, when you're talking about language acquisition, it's really just. Increasing students opportunities to respond in a safe way. Um, PBIS is like, you know, that those routines and expectations plus feedback. Um, and so a really intentionally restorative justice is, in fact, I'll do two more. Restorative justice is, is represented in community and relationships. Um, a big one I see a lot now is inclusionary practice or universal design. Um, and the way that I phrase it is two things. One, you can't have like three options or variability for an entry task. Your entry routine's in chaos, like you need that routine installed. And then two, like, I'm not gonna know, I'm not gonna be able to design around your learning barriers until I build a relationship with you and learn what they are. So the community and relationships. Um, so I think like this system is informed by all of those initiatives that I see across my desk. So instead of telling teachers like, you've gotta learn these five huge ideas and change your mindset for all of them. Um, you just have to install this one system. Wow, that's so interesting. Um, you're definitely gonna have to come back when you're book is ready so that everyone knows. Um, I. Just makes my brain so happy. Like, I love categorizing things and stuff. It just, it, I, I love it. So the idea of like, especially when it comes to those initiatives to make them feel like they aren't just another new thing, but really just focusing a little bit more on, um, different parts of that system, um, is wild. Um, in a really great way. So. I, I'm looking forward to that book. That'll be really neat to see. Um, and to read. So yeah. Thank, thanks. Yeah. Um, yeah, and like you said, like there, I've never seen initiative, an initiative in my education career that was new. It's really often just like. A new brand of old practices. Right. Um, and so that's, you know, my, the quote, my tagline is always, you know, we need to move on from quick fixes, quick fixes, shiny objects and initiative fatigue, and just slow down and build systems. And, um, can I add to that too, that I think that. Wanna make sure to say that, you know, whoever it is that are making policy decisions, I think those people all have the best intentions at heart too, right? Like they love students and they want to do whatever they can to have a positive impact. Um, just sometimes, like we're trying so hard to install all of these initiatives that, um, it's done in a way that maybe is a little bit disjointed, but then from a teacher's perspective, that feels like. This constant revolving door. Right? Um, yep. And so kind of gotta build that coherence of a strong system. Yeah. Makes total sense. Okay, so, um, I'm gonna put you on the spot and ask you if we're talking about, I wanna say a, um, a data informed, uh, initiative. But unfortunately a lot of people call it data driven initiative. Not unfortunately, it's just a different word. Um, if we're talking about like, oh, now we're data driven, where does that fall? Uh, well, so I think that data's gotta be weaved into all of those things. And the way that I would phrase it is, is that, um, well, I'll say two things. One, that the data informs that we need all of those initiatives. That's why we're installing them all right? Like there, there's significant students in our schools that. Need support with language acquisition. So we install, you know, seven Steps is amazing, right? I dunno if you've ever heard of that, that language acquisition curriculum, we install that initiative. Um, there's a lot of harm in our schools, so we install restorative justice, right? Like all of those initiatives are needed. Um, and so the way that I phrase it is, is, you know, our, our school systems are not simple. They're very complex and they need all of these components. It just needs to be done in a systematic way. Um, and so we have to start with that foundation of building a system. Our students are way too diverse for any one solution. They need a system, I guess is how I would put it. And then two, um, when I talk about data, I think I have a little bit different mindset about data because, you know, I'm. I'm a part of many different groups, you know, especially in my district office role, where we're constantly analyzing student data. And what I have seen is, is we have so many different avenues to collect student data, belonging data, social emotional data, reading, math, whatever, all the state testing, right? And what I see is, is like all of that data over the last 10 or 15 years since I've been out of the classroom, slowly trending down and. Um, so what we need to do, my kind of perspective is, is that none of that's gonna change until we start collecting data on ourselves. Um, in fact. So kind of my next layer is, is that if I've got the system of practices, how do you implement it? Especially, how do you implement it in a way where you're not just telling teachers what to do, but you're like, teachers are amazing. Like they're some. The teachers I know are some of the most incredible people in the world. Right? Like as a coach, I have a really hard time going into a classroom and kind of telling them what to do.'cause I'm like, you're smarter than I am. Right? Yeah. Most of the time. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So like, I like, my point is, is that how we install that system is we collect data on those practices and that coaches teachers in a way that acknowledges them, the experts. So for example, so I have. Then years and years of research of all of these different studies. And you know, I can kind of go through a little bit of the depth of it, but for each of those practices I named, there's a data point, um, that's objective and measurable, um, that could be thought of as optimal or that research and evidence points to as at least suggested. So for example, um, relationships, you wanna have 85 to 95% of your students in the maintain phase of established, maintain, repair. By four to six weeks into school, the end of the honeymoon period routines, you need 80 to 90% engaged, says the RTI triangle. Um, I'll use positive feedback as an example because most people are familiar with the Gottman study says five to one positive to negative interactions. Uh, PBIS says four to one. In fact, I've seen studies that say three to one, there's a study, and I can't remember the source that says like, don't use any specific number because every class is different, but more positives are better. There's a study that says trauma informed to seven to one. There's a study that says it's counterproductive after 12 to one. That's kind of like that toxic positivity, right? So I've done a lot of research on all of these data points, but if you're a teacher and. Um, I'm a coach and I wanna support you. I can just sit in your class and tally, P-P-P-N-P-N, and maybe I leave your class and you're at a one-to-one ratio. And then as a coach, we sit down together and I say, you're at one-to-one today. Like, how'd that feel? How'd your students respond? Yep. And to be honest, as the expert of your students, you might say. Yeah, my students only need a one-to-one ratio. That's what I'm shooting for. And that's your decision because again, you are the expert of your students and teachers are incredible. But maybe I say like, well, let's look at some of these resources. You wanna try to get to four to one, and then you look at the resources and you choose what you wanna do or what's gonna work best for your students. And then the next day or next few days when you try that, um, and I come in a few days later and then I, I. Monitor you at four to one. Um, one, you were just the agent of your own learning. You made those decisions. And so that's where real profound growth happens. Two, you get to feel what four to one feels like. And also when I say like, how did your students respond to that? And you're like, oh, when I was positive they were way more engaged. Right? Um, like that's where real profound growth happens. Um. Because again, that objective data point, but also just acknowledging teachers as the experts they are because they really are. Yeah. Yeah. My favorite kind of coaching that I've done, because I've tried lots of different systems. I've been an instructional coach in, in three different districts. Um. And each one, you know, when I step in, they have their, like, their main system of coaching. Um, and the, the one that I've seen that's been the most impactful is when I'm able to, to just be the person who collects the data and facilitates or starts that conversation and helps them brainstorm it when they need it. Because you're so right. Like when they have that, that agency, when they have. Um, the ability to choose, then it, it helps make that, and this is something I talk about a lot about when it comes to like data cycles. It helps them connect their actions to the, and that's what we really want, right? Because then if you know that what you did had an impact on that student that's giving you that, that teacher efficacy. Yeah, that's, that's, yeah. Which is, as we all know, very powerful. Especially when you start getting it all together as a group. But, um, but yeah, I talk about that all the time in terms of data cycles with, with teachers, um, when it comes to like academic data, um, and data cycles with schools and districts. The goal is to get to that point at the end where you're able to say, we did this and this is the impact that it had. Right. And that, that connection gives you like that, that dopamine and that excited motivation to do it all over again. And so it totally makes sense that when you're talking about coaching a teacher on instructional practices, it's the same thing. You're providing that data in order to help them make that connection, which then gets them excited about, about the impact that they're having. So, cool. Yeah, that's a great, a great way to summarize it. I mean, I love that idea of efficacy and excitement, right? Because um, yeah. You know, teachers care, teachers care, I say like desperately about their students, right? Um, right. Like that's all they want. They don't want somebody to come fix their problems. Um, they just wanna see their students be successful. So when you build that efficacy, it's, you see it in their eyes, how excited they're, yeah. So I love that point. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Um, and that's, you know, as a coach, that's what gives you efficacy. When you see the teachers you're working with experience success on their own, um, versus, you know, the other side is, is that sometimes I think like traditional coaching can, um, you know, maybe if, if. I am a coach at the district office and I teach a class. You come to my class at the district office, what I say might not even impact your kids, right? And if it does, and I just tell you what to do, the quote I use is, is, uh, repeating is not the same as creating. So like, if I give you a lesson plan to teach, it just doesn't feel the same as one you create on your own. And I think that goes the same with instructional practices. You come to my class at the district office, I tell you what to do. It might not even apply, but if it does. You just go repeat what I say. It kind of strips away all your personality and creativity. Um, and again, that doesn't feel great for a teacher, but when I, you come up with the idea, um, like that's what feels really good when you create your own solutions. Yeah. That, that brings that excitement for sure. Yeah. Um, and there's, and I, I may have talked about this on this podcast before. I repeat a lot of things because I talk to too many people. Uh, but I, I'm blaming all the fact that I talked to too many people. Mostly it's just because I have a really bad memory. Um, but I, oh, shoot. See, now I don't even know what I was gonna say. Yeah, yeah. Um, no, I do. So, um, it reminds me of this article that I read. Um. We were really big. The last job that I had, our teaching learning team were really big about, like staying on top of things, doing our own professional learning. And we would read these articles, and I am pretty sure it was Jim Knight who wrote the article. It was all about who all about the fact that like, um, teaching is such a, um, a personal career. Like you put so much of your personality into it, so much of you into teaching. Um, it's not just like this. This thing that's like separate from your life. It's like you, I don't know how to put it into words like he did, but it's very personal. So when it comes to, uh, someone coaching you or telling you what to do when you're a teacher, if it's something that you feel like you're being told, like. You're doing this wrong. It feels like an attack on your personality as opposed to just like an attack on some protocol that you're right. Like it's, it's so deeply personal that it's so important that we, we get that, uh, that coaching, um, system down in a way that, uh, that nourishes the fact that, you know, we are putting our whole selves out there when we're teaching. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's a really great point. Teachers, teachers are incredible. Um, they deserve to be acknowledged as such. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 100%. Okay. So, um, we've talked a lot about how collecting data can help with, um, coaching on instructional practices and, um, you've been working a little bit on a software that can do the same, correct. Yeah, yeah. I launched recently, so it hasn't, it launched in about June. Um, I tested this app that I created last year in my coaching, um, and launched it in June, so people haven't used it in the classroom yet. I'm really excited for next week. But I created this app called Ed Changer Pro. And how it works really simply is, is what I just said about data collection. Um, it really is kind of a personal instructional coach for teachers for$10, right? Where they can, and it works for coaching as well. Um, but how the app is set up for each of those practices, there is what I actually call games. Because when you're sitting in a classroom and you're tapping all of these buttons, it kind of feels like you're playing a game on your phone. But there's a game for each. I mean, they're really data monitoring tools, right? Yeah. But I don't know. I'm a nerd. Some people, people like the word games better. Um, I'd call it a data monitoring tool if it was for me. But, um, so for example, there's a data monitoring tool or a game for each of those practices. Uh, so I'll give you maybe three or four examples. Four. Probably the simplest one is positive feedback. So if I'm a teacher, I can just carry my phone around like a clicker and every time I say something, just tap peer in. Yeah. And then at the end of the period or end of a 15 minute period, um, it's gonna tell me my exact ratio of positive to negative interactions. Or if you're a coach, you can sit in the back of the classroom and do that for a teacher. Um. And, um, the intentionally planning routines game is set up like a grid, like a classroom. So there's grid boxes and then there's two buttons, engaged and disengaged. So I go around the classroom and I look at, I look at Jessica. I count, you know, one to three seconds, you're engaged or disengaged. So I tap D or E, you're engaged. And then I look at Patrick E's engaged. Then student three and student four are talking. So D disengaged. D disengaged. And so you go through the classroom twice and it gives you the exact percentage of students that are engaged. Um. Let's see, like the opportunities to respond game. You just start the clock and tap like G for gestural, V for verbal, W for written. Which types of opportunities to respond. They're being offered. We're shooting for three to five per minute. Um, the, sorry, two. My favorite game just because it's designed really cool. I have a coder who's a friend who designed all these things for me. And when he did, when he showed me this one, I was like, well, that's exactly what I wanted. Um, you get a grid and you tap on the boxes. To create a map of the classroom like where desks are, and then you hit go and like the grid disappears, but the map stays there and then it's touchable. So you can like track your finger around the map, where the teacher's supervision pattern is. Um, and then you can tap on P for positive feedback. C for corrective feedback, O for opportunities to respond each time the teacher offers a student interaction. And then, so it emails the teacher, their supervision map and what types of interactions they had. Wow. Yeah. Last one that's cool. So cool is, uh, there's a student teacher talk time game. So you tap teacher talking, student talking, and you toggle back and forth shooting for 70% student talk time, 30% teacher talk. Um, and so what it does is it collects that data. Then as you hit done, it populates an email and it sends the teacher their data, the optimal or suggested data points. So it would send you, you are one-to-one positive to negative. Today, optimal is four to one. And then three targeted resources to support your growth. So the first one's like a webinar of me, like an eight minute webinar of me teaching, like first steps for implementation of that practice. Maybe some fun ideas. Second one is like the most basic resource. So like for positive feedback, it's like, here's the six most important types of positive feedback. Praising behavior, praising performance, praising thinking, praising, um, effort or growth mindset, praising character. Like, so you can try start to do that more. Yeah. And then the third is,'cause one of my kind of beliefs is, is that like every teacher deserves great coaching. In fact, as you get more experience, sometimes you need more coaching or better coaching. Um, and the re the third document is a resource framework that has like a ton of resources that kind of includes something for everybody. So if you, if you hit that four to one ratio, but you're like, I still wanna get better, that resource framework has like. A resource about feedback loops. So you can install, maybe you start to wanna target feedback loops as a practice or a resource about empathy interviews. Maybe you wanna use those in your classroom. To ramp your positivity, your positivity. Um, and so again, like that process of collecting data and then providing the teacher high quality resources, um, really is a way to coach them, to acknowledge them as experts. They go through the resources and make decisions. And by the way, teachers can monitor themselves like it's an instructional coaching app. So if you don't have access to a coach, maybe you have a coach, but you're not really that comfortable being that vulnerable with them. Um. You can coach yourself using the app. It's a, it's a personal instructional coach in your pocket for$10. So, such a neat concept and um, such a neat way to, to really like focus your growth, right? Because like, I feel like it's so hard when you're in the midst of things to, um, I remember keeping a list at the back of my planner, like, I need to work on this and this and this, and this and this, and that list just gets longer and longer and longer. But to be able to say, okay, this is what I'm working on and this is how I'm working on it and whether or not what I'm doing is having an impact is just so beneficial. Um, it makes me wish that I had that when I was a teacher. Like that would've been so cool. Um, especially too, even if you have like a co-teacher and you guys are working on something together and you can like monitor each other and then look at the data and, and I mean you'd have to have a strong relationship with your co-teacher obviously, but um. But find a way to, to kind of work together and collaborate on, um, on growing together. That's so neat. Yeah. I love it. Yeah, I love that you're always gonna learn more with other people for sure. But although if you're somebody who's not comfortable with Yeah. Sharing need to, right. Um, I tell principals all the time, I think, I mean, the way that I would phrase it is, is that everybody talks about like differentiating pd, but like. You say that, but what does that even mean and who does it? Right, right. It's usually just one consultant that comes in that teaches one thing at. Um, but you could, as a principal, if you have Wednesday staff meetings, tell your teachers, pick a practice, I'm gonna monitor you on Monday, and then at the staff meeting, you're just gonna group up with the people who chose the same practice as you. Yeah. Watch the webinar and talk about like, what you could do to refine your practice or share ideas with each other. Again, teachers are gonna learn the way that I, in fact, I think I directly say in my book, like. Please collaborate on this. Um, you're gonna learn much more from the experts around you than you ever are from a book. Right. Right. Um, so that collaboration also leads to profound growth. Yeah. Love that idea. Yeah. That's so cool. Um, yeah, what an awesome idea. Um, there's another question I was gonna ask you about it. Oh. Um, in turn, you said for$10. So how, where do people find this? How do they, how do they, uh, connect to this app? Yeah, it's just on the app store. The app's called Ed Changer Pro. Um, ed, ed Changer. Pro All Word. All one word. Yep. E-D-C-H-A-N-G-E-R, whatever, ed Changer Pro. Um, you know, I also, I also have a YouTube channel with all of my webinars, so those are free. In fact, again, one of my. One of my points I always make, and it's, you know, kind of idealistic I guess, but I'm, I try to stay grounded in that. Right. Um, is that, like every teacher deserves great coaching and so like if you can't access, if you don't have$10 or if you can't access the app for some reason, um, all my resources are online for free. So there's webinars on YouTube. I have that a hub of resources on Google Drive, which is all the resources I just described to you. But what they also include, that resource framework I mentioned, has like a paper monitoring form. So if you can't access the app, um, you can download the paper monitoring forms and just, you know, PPP. Yeah. And on paper, um, all of that's free. Um, again, I, I all teachers deserve great coaching. All students deserve great instruction. Um, so if you can't access the app, all of that stuff is there for free. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. Very low entry points. So you, you know, you can still, still get that, um, that focused growth regardless, which is really cool. Um, but the idea of having it as a little, little tapping game, I'm gonna, I'm gonna tell you, I mean, I say it all the time and I'm, I'm not a salesman at already and I'm not trying to make money, whatever. Like, I have a job, I'm busy. Right. Um, this is just, it really is a little bit more idealistic for me. Um, but I'll tell you that, and I always say like, all those things are free, but I will tell you that it's so much easier to use the app. Right. And just email the resources versus have to like, put a piece of the paper in the teacher's box and hope they get it and or whatever it is. Right? Like if you can just tap, tap, tap, send. Um, yeah. It's so worth$10 for sure. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. Um, and I, just to go back to the whole game idea, I love it. Like, I love the idea of just like, oh, it's just a little game that I'm playing while teaching. Um, yeah. Uh, yeah. So, cool. Okay, so we talked about the app. Um, I do want to just make sure that we're covering, and I, I am, I linked the app in the show notes as well as your YouTube channel. You also mentioned that. Um, is there anything else that you want to, I know we're, we're gonna talk about the book. You're gonna come back and talk about the book'cause I'm excited about that. Um, is there anywhere else that people should follow you, um, to make sure that they don't miss out on, on all of the cool stuff? Yeah, thanks. I just, um, you know, I'm posting, I, you know, July or whatever when I started this, I just signed up for LinkedIn. So I post almost every day, like a strategy and a resource on LinkedIn. Um, I, at this point, all of my resources, I just a couple weeks ago created, it's called a bio site. Um. So everything I have is just right there. Site. They, there's a link to the YouTube channel, the Hub and all my resources, the app. Um, so I can share that link with you if I haven't. Um, yes. I would say like follow on LinkedIn just'cause I'm constantly kind of coaching one day, one strategy per day. And then also the bio site is just all of the resources. Yeah. Awesome. I'm gonna have to, I don't think I follow you on LinkedIn, so we're gonna have to connect there. Oh, okay. Yeah, it's such a, such a great place. It's so much easier to connect on LinkedIn than Facebook. Yeah. Yeah. So le less clutter. Um, so super cool. Thanks for, um, giving us those links. Um, and, uh, thanks so much for coming on and talking about all this stuff. I, it's such a great conversation to have. We talked a lot, Lee. We, me, myself and I have talked to a lot of people about, um, about data use when it comes to academics, behavior, attendance. But something that we don't talk about enough is, is the instructional strategies data, the, the, the coaching data that, data that, um, that helps you kind of, um. Like I said, focus on your specific actions as opposed to the content itself. So I appreciate you coming on and talking about that. I'm excited about this app. I'm excited to share it with, um, the audience, and I look forward to having you back to talk about the book. Yeah, thank you. That'd be awesome. Yeah. Thanks Jessica. Thank you. Great.