The Head, Heart, Hands, and Guts of a Healthy Data Culture with Bethany Rees

Leaders—are you struggling with meetings that drain instead of deliver, team members who resist buy-in, or tough conversations that keep you up at night? You don’t have to tackle those challenges alone. Head over to leadershipontherocks.com/free where you’ll find practical, FREE resources—from meeting agendas and buy-in guides to tools for navigating conflict—that will help you survive and succeed in leadership.

In this episode of Data in Education, I'm so excited to be chatting with Bethany Rees, a leadership coach, author, and an 18-year K-12 veteran who has truly seen it all. Her career has been, in her own words, a rollercoaster she didn't buy a ticket for, from teaching ninth-grade civics in small-town Arkansas (with no email, if you can believe it!) to wearing a toolbelt as an instructional technologist in Houston, to opening a brand-new, three-story high school as an Associate Principal. It was, as she calls it, a "beautiful hurricane."

Learn more about Bethany Rees at https://www.leadershipontherocks.com/

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Connect with Bethany Rees
Email: bethany@bressentialservices.com
X: https://twitter.com/Leadontherocks
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bethanyrees/
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Buy the Leadership on the Rocks book: https://a.co/d/gjkAWxZ 
Podcast: Leadership on the Rocks https://www.youtube.com/@leadershipontherocks724

Transcript

Speaker 2 0:50

Welcome to Data and Education, where today we're tackling those, those D meetings that feel like cage matches more than they do collaborations. I'm so excited to have Bethany Reese, a leadership coach, author of Leadership on the Rocks, and an 18 year K 12 veteran. Joining me today. She has seen it all from the classroom to the admin office, and she's an expert at transforming tense data, talks into powerful student-centered conversations. Bethany is here to share how we can build a data culture founded on trust, not trauma, and lead our teams with clarity and purpose, all things I love to talk about. Welcome, Bethany.

Speaker 1:25

Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

Speaker 2 1:28

Yeah, absolutely. And I gave a very short, very short brief intro, but I'd love for you to go kind of through more of your background, tell us a little bit more about, um, how you got where you are today.

Speaker 1:40

That's awesome. Well, uh, so I spent 18 years, 20, if you don't count the maternity leaves in education. Um, but I, what I would like to say is that my whole career in education was more like a rollercoaster that I didn't necessarily buy a ticket to. You know, I had planned on being the teacher, setting that classroom on fire, like changing lives. That's what I was gonna do in history specifically. And I, you know, had those plans and God looked at my plans laughed, and I went on a completely different adventure. So I did start. In history, and I was teaching civics to ninth graders in a very small town school district in Arkansas. And then I got my master's degree in gifted and talented. And then I immediately switched to teaching pretty much K six over the various years and teaching all subjects. So I would literally go from teaching a third grader some algebra to helping a sixth grader with a science project, all project based learning about how to reduce CO2 emissions with scrubbers in a powered. Plant, like how did it go from history to this? Right. It was a whirlwind, and then 2008 came and my husband was transferred to Houston. In July might I add. And so trying to find a job in late July as an educator who teaches history, who doesn't coach anything I know. So I took the only job pretty much that was open and it was an called an instructional technologist, and it was serving teachers utilizing technology. So I was like, okay, I can do this. I use technology all the time. Uh, yeah, most of the job was hardware. I like had a tool belt was under desks, making cat five cable, like a complete flip from anything I'd ever done. But, you know, that's where I learned humility and service and it was great. And I was back in a high school, uh, setting, which I enjoyed. And then from there I moved to a junior high and I was an instructional coach for six years. Uh, and those were just some of the greatest years of my life. I loved being in there, serving teachers. And then I got the opportunity, a skip level promotion to become an associate principal of curriculum and instruction opening a brand new beautiful three story high school in the district. And it was an amazing step into like official leadership as an administrator, but opening a brand new building, opening a school is something you would ever wanna only do once in your lifetime. I, I guarantee you, it was like living in a hurricane. Yeah, I'm so grateful for that though. But anyway, fast, fast forward to 2023. Um, my son graduated high school from that said high school. And we got the opportunity to move back to Arkansas. So instead of doing all the paperwork of like recertifying coming back into the state, I just felt called to serve leaders who were in their own hurricane. And so I have stepped out and I've started my own leadership coaching business, which is what I do now, and podcasting serving leaders who feel like they're living their own hurricane life.

Speaker 2 4:23

Oh my goodness. What a story. Yeah, and that's a, how far away is Arkansas from Texas? How many states are between.

Speaker 4:31

Just one they're touching. So I was in in Houston, so it was about an eight hour drive to, and right now I'm outside of Little Rock, so I'm at the hub. Yeah, Arkansas's like a square and Little Rock's dead center of it.

Speaker 2 4:43

Nice. I need to take a geography class to you guys for some reason. I always think of AR and I realized this before actually. I've always thought of Arkansas as being a little bit further up. For some reason. Oh yeah. Um, I, I don't know why that is, but in my brain that's how it's supposed to be so that it wasn't crazy, like across the country at least, but still a wild ride for sure. Um, and you stepped in at, with like ninth graders, which is exactly what I did. I feel like that. Mm-hmm. That's a little bit trial by fire. Uhhuh. Very much. It's, it's a, a crazy time. Um. And also something else that you said, uh, you had talked about like switching, um, states and switching certifications. Mm-hmm. I don't know how many people have been through that process,

Speaker 5:33

but we need to make it so much

Speaker 2 5:35

easier.

Speaker 5:35

Oh, they do. It was awful. I had to completely retest and recertify in everything. Yeah. When I came to Texas, it was an absolute process. And then switching back, I actually looked into switching back from Texas.'cause all of my Arkansas licenses had expired. We were in Houston for 15 years, you know, so I went from a small town, Arkansas too. The city of Houston is almost three times bigger than the entire state of Arkansas. Yeah. So it was a crazy jump, had to recertify, but even coming back, like it wasn't easy and I was having to fill out all this paperwork and prove all of these different things and still take an online class to show that I am qualified. I was like, you know what, no. God's calling me to serve now, so I'm, I'm stepping out. Yeah.

Speaker 2 6:10

Yeah, I, I had to switch from Illinois to Ohio and Oh my goodness. Was it a process? I was like, am I the first one that's ever done this? Like, you guys are treating me as if I'm the first person Yeah. Who's asked to switch from Illinois to, yeah. Ohio. Um, and, uh, starting a new school. Wow. What a, what an adventure. I was in the second year. Of the charter school when I first started teaching, I was in, I started there in their second year and that was the closest I think I can ever get to starting a new school.

Speaker 6:42

It is crazy to, to literally start from scratch. Number one, you move in the building when it's not completely ready. So we were still there a second year. Yeah. It took so long to physically have everything ready. But you're hiring hundreds of staff, right? We, we started. Uh, you know, with a smaller group of students, but then ballooned very quickly to 4,000. So you're hiring hundreds of staff all at one time, and it was just absolute beautiful chaos of, yay, I get to start from scratch and build it the way it should be. Right? Should, because we have vision and goals, but then you're like, oh crap, I gotta build everything from scratch. How do we do this? How do we do that? How do we onboard? How, what nights are we hosting? How are we gonna run this logistically? And so it was, I just worked with the, the best team ever, the most amazing team to open that. And I just feel like we went to war almost and we are just brothers and sisters forever for life.'cause of what we went through again. Yeah. A beautiful hurricane. I'm glad I survived.

Speaker 2 7:36

Yeah. And now you're on the other side helping others with their hurricanes. Absolutely. Such a great spot to be in. Um, so you talked a lot about these different experiences. I'm curious where. Where is. Data fitting into all of those. So what are the experiences you've had? I, I really wanna like hone in on data culture specifically because I find that's a very fascinating conversation when you've been in different schools and, and in different situations. And I've kind of seen how, how it works in those situations. So I'm, I'm curious your perspective.

Speaker 8:11

Absolutely. Well, first of all, I am a culture warrior. You know, I, I just, my heart is bent, my lenses are tinted to always look at how is everybody getting along? How are we talking to one another? How are we engaging with one another? Yeah. What do we believe as a group? What are, what do we celebrate as a group? And so that's just my natural bend in life, uh, towards that. But when it comes to data, can I just, I, I'm gonna be honest, and I know you're having me on this podcast and we are gonna talk about data, but in the beginning, like, I hated it. My only, you know, intro into data was stepping on a scale or looking at my cholesterol, which is proving the point that eating a hamburgers is not a good. Way of life. Right. So, but it's still really fun. Yes. You know, data doesn't lie. That's where I learned that lesson and neither do my Gs they don't lie. But, but specifically that whole transformation of, okay, what does data mean in education and culture? You know, I began my career in the early two thousands. You know, I didn't even have email my first year of teaching, which is crazy to even say. But, um. No child left behind accountability and adequate yearly progress and all these things were coming out and, you know, so data and education is looking at this. And in the beginning, nobody knew what to do with it, right? Because we, we didn't, we never dove into data before. So it was a very awkward intro into that of what do I do with these numbers? Um, and. What I was used to data wise was not numbers and spreadsheets. It was looking at my students' faces. You know, that's, and so, uh, uh, the whole arc of data really was very informal data. Looking at my kids' faces, what are their faces telling me? Are they engaged? Are they getting it? Are they not? Do they still have questions? And then it went to the more, you know, uh, formative data, right? You're given a quiz. And the whole point of that is to say, okay, where are we at? And where do I go from here? Mm-hmm. And so looking at that formative data and then with No Child Left behind and all those things, then came the big summative data where you're just like, alright, how's everybody doing? Did everybody make progress over the year? And then you're looking at, honestly, in the beginning it was awkward days. We got better at it. Towards the end of my career. But the summative data is, we're the potholes. Like we've gone along this road, this path, and you're just kind of looking backwards of, oh, pothole, pothole, pothole. Now, eventually that conversation shifted to, you know, we still have these gaps. We have to address these gaps. We don't want kids to literally fall through the cracks here. So how do we spiral back? How do we support them and fill those gaps? And then towards the end of my career came this beautiful, um, interim assessment data. Right. We have the benchmarks. Now we have the practice, uh, state tests that everybody's kind of freaking out over, and those were the broader snapshots. You know, teachers complained about that a lot. The district is just trying to catch which school's doing better and which one's not, so they can shame us. Those kind of the attitude towards it, or they're using it to predict kids and so. I went through culturally a whole bunch of conversations of what the heck is data in a school setting, dunno what to do with it. Two data's the bad guy. It is a firing squad. And I gotcha. To then know how does it inform us as educators so that we know where to go. So I've been through the whole arc of it, I feel like.

Speaker 2 11:21

Yeah. Yeah. And I feel like a lot of people are still kind of in that, in the middle of that. Um, and for good reason, like it, it does, it makes sense that we are feeling defensive about it. Um, you know, uh, teaching is a, it's not just a career's a lifestyle, right? Like, and it, so much of our personality and so much of our character comes through when we're teaching that it feels like a personal attack on us mm-hmm. When we're not getting the scores and, and that becomes public knowledge and, um. Yeah. And I've been there, so I'm like, I feel you. Yeah. But I think you really hit it spot on. And when you talk about like the, the data of your student faces, and, and I like to put it like on a scale where it's, you know, that kind of data you're talking about, that tiny data, you're talking about the day to day, the formative assessments, the super. Super formative assessments of looking at their, I mean, that is an assessment. Still looking at their basis, you're still assessing them somehow and getting some kind of data all the way up to the, the bigger data. Not not big data, because that's, that means something else in data, but that bigger data of like the state assessments. Mm-hmm. Or report card data, like, and it's, you know, when you're looking to gain momentum. From using data and really start having that more like positive environment. It's so important to look at that tiny data because that's where you're gonna be able to like mm-hmm. Make those connections between what you're doing and the impact it's having. Absolutely. Like you can see the look on the student's face change.

Speaker 13:05

Yeah. You can see that

Speaker 2 13:06

the next day they're, they're better at that skill.

Speaker 13:09

Yeah, I think the, I mean, just as that, that point, as an example of looking at people's faces and body language, that is a telltale sign of culture. You know, classroom culture of am I teaching it in a way in which they are getting it? Do I see light bulbs or do I see just like arms crossed and, you know, eyes closed and completely disengaged. Yeah. And that is your first telltale sign environment and culture. And looking at as we kind of shift this, what is culture, especially data culture like, do those two words even go together? Yes, they do. If you define the broad concept of culture, you know Peter Drucker, who's this like business guru, but it still applies in education. He says that culture eats, um, strategy for breakfast. Pretty much. Yep. You know, he also, I've heard quotes of breakfast, lunch and dinner. Culture eats strategy. Um, and how you apply that is that it actually doesn't stop there. Culture. It's your data for lunch and then it will chew up your staff meeting for dinner. And so it's how we engage po. You know, culture is not posters on the wall. It's not what we necessarily say. Uh, you know, with one big vision or mission that's put on the wall. And we never talk about it is like day to day interactions. It is how do we talk to one another? What do we collectively believe? Um, how do we engage? What do we celebrate? Oh, and here's my favorite that nobody talks about. Collectively, what common villains do we have that we fight? Or what common excuses do we rally around? That's a telltale sign of your culture too. And sitting in, you know, as an instructional coach, I set in. Professional learning communities, PLC meetings. Some people call'em collaborative team times, whatever. Lots of different names. I've been at lots of locations with lots of different names, but the body language of the people in that room, telltale sign of the culture and culture will eat that data meeting if it is not a positive culture.

Speaker 2 15:01

Absolutely the data culture come, it has to come before the, because I always talk about data culture, data literacy, and data visualization. That data culture is the foundation. If you don't have that positive environment and, uh, the feel good aspect around the data, if everyone's feeling defensive. It's not going anywhere. So I'm curious what you, because like I have an ideal, like positive data culture in my brain, but I'm curious what that, what that would look like or what you've seen it look like, um, from your experience.

Speaker 15:32

So I love actually kind of going the opposite way of defining something by saying what it's not first. Yes. Thank you so. If you're thinking about what is a positive data culture, what does it look like? Let me tell you what it doesn't look like first. It doesn't look like, I've heard you say the word defensive a couple of times already.

Speaker 3 15:51

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 15:52

When teachers are defensive, that's really something called image management. I want to control the narrative and the conversation so that I look good. I never wanna look bad. Um, and then add to that a spirit of competition where it's now not. Us together working towards the same goal. It's me versus you. I wanna look better than you. I wanna blow out your candle so mind shines brighter. Add those two things. That is a negative culture. That's what you don't want. And yet, so often if you listen to the words being said in a collaborative team where they're talking about data, you hear the defensiveness, the image management and the competition, you can just. See it, you can almost taste it and smell it right? And you've gotta, you've gotta shift. You gotta shift from self-protection to student-centered reflection. You gotta make the shift. So I'm gonna say something and I hope people hear me correctly. Your job as a leader when it comes to data culture is to make shift happen. Do I need to say that slower so we hear it, right? I, I say you say it faster. I dunno. There you go. Leaders makeshift happen. That's your job, right? Stop making data as a weapon in the culture and it's needs to start being the roadmap. Make that shift. So now that we've said what it's not, let's talk about what it is. It is, you know, not the eye rolls, it's not, you know, all of those things. So it's trust. It's curiosity. It's clarity. Those are the outcomes of what a positive data culture looks like. So let me say those three again. Trust, curiosity, and then the clarity that comes with that. You know, without trust, without us saying, I've got your back, you've got mine, we're in this together. If you don't have that and that's what a good data culture looks like, then what you have is a gotcha. Yep. Right. We don't want that. And without curiosity, without asking questions and looking from different perspectives, what it becomes is imagine like a wallpaper where everybody sees it, but nobody pays attention to the pattern on it. You have no idea. Yep. You have no idea what, what image is actually in the wallpaper. And then you have to have trust. Trust is just the foundation for any. Any relationship, any team, any organization. Yeah. Um, Patrick Lencioni does a ton of work and the five dysfunctions of a team talking about trust and what happens when you don't have it. But, um, you know, then you've also gotta have the clarity piece. Without clarity, it's just noise. Here's what we have to get to is you can look at numbers, but numbers just, it's just information. Build the culture of being curious to say, what is this information really telling us? So that it moves from just facts to some insight, and then from insight to actual wisdom that I can now apply in multiple situations. You don't get that unless you have that clarity, curiosity, and trust to, to do all those things. So. The first thing I would say is defining what a healthy culture looks like. I'm gonna look at body language of the people in the room. Yeah. What kind of body language do we have of how everybody's engaging? And then what's the language? What, what kind of questions are we asking? Um, and if it's a. Curious, you know, set of questions. If it's people like, tell me more. You know where walls are coming down, people are leaning in. That's a healthy data culture and it's pretty much moving from a mirror of failure conversation to a flashlight for solutions conversation. Do I love that? That's what we again, mm-hmm. Leaders make shift happen in this. So that's ultimately walking around all of that. What it is, is trust, curiosity and clarity.

Speaker 2 19:29

Yeah. Um. I, I use, uh, six pillars for, um, for data culture. And I feel like you, even with those three brought all of it in, there's, you know, the trust, the psychological safety, which is another kind of side aspect of trust. There's collaboration, building capacity, the leadership. Did I say six? I don't remember which one I left out, but there's another one I was still stuck on. Your clarity, curiosity, um, and uh, what I, now I can't remember. Your and trust the biggest one. Um, uh, cool. So when we think about like. How to make that happen, specifically within data meetings. What does that look like? How do you make sure that you are structuring them in a way that helps you build those relationships, build that trust within your team, as opposed to getting that, that uncomfortable body language and the mm-hmm. The defensive questions and statements that you, that we often hear.

Speaker 20:34

That's such a big question. Um, I will do my best to simplify all the things swimming in my head right now. Yeah. Number one, culture has to start outside of the data conversation. It needs to start with all the other things. Um, and it will bleed into and then build your data, you know, conversations and your data culture. How do you even welcome your staff onto campus? How do you engage with them? Now again, I'm doing this from a leadership perspective. And, and whenever I say leader leaders, leadership is influence. So I could be talking to the team lead, I could be talking to, you know, a department chair, an instructional coach, you know, administrator, whatever, or just the teacher that's the veteran teacher. That man, everybody looks to you for an answer because you have influence. I'm not talking title when I say leader, but how do you engage with other people outside the classroom? Are you getting to know them? Are you sharing, you know stories? Are you sharing wins? Are you encouraging one another? Again, what kind of language are you using? What kind of beliefs are y'all commonly rallying around, and what do you celebrate? That all happens outside of the data conversation. But it will definitely build and bleed into. So let's, let's start there. So I wanna have some story time, if you don't mind. I have two stories Yeah. Of data conversations gone wrong and then I'll talk about some of that have gone, right? Yes. Um, again, I think some of the best ways to define things is saying what they're not. Um, so as an instructional coach, I also have a caveat I need to tell you about. At this school that I was at, I was at a junior high. I had five principals in six years. Lemme say that again. Mm-hmm. You did not mishear me five principles in six years. Um, and there was just a constant rotating door for, for several reasons. Mm-hmm. But the culture was already kind of broken. Uh, the identity of who are we, what do we believe, how do we rally together, wasn't really there. Um, and so I'm facilitating this one meeting. It's math, and we're looking at data. And it, we're trying to use the data in order to decide how are we gonna teach the next unit? What are we gonna spiral back with content? Because math so builds on top of each other. Yep. And so you can't just leave the pothole, right, because you're driving in circles. It's like the racetrack in math. You're, you're gonna come around to it again eventually, like fill It feels like it too. Yeah, that's what I thought. You had a pill bottle. Um, so we're having this conversation and these two teachers are just. They're just trying to one up each other in ideas and in defense, uh, of the data. And I'm trying to deescalate it and I am young in my leadership learning. Mm-hmm. And. What eventually happened is a gentleman stood up and called another lady, teacher the B word. Well, you're just being a little B. And then she stood up and she reciprocated that. And I had never been in that kind of conflict. I've been in some conflict, but not that kind of conflict. And I stood up and said, all right, this is getting too emotional, too personal. This meeting is over. Please everybody go back to your classrooms. And then I followed up individually immediately, but individually with. Each a teacher talking about professionalism, and they're both like, I know, I know Bethany, but all right. So that didn't, that group did not have the right culture. They, they were not, they didn't feel safe, they didn't feel vulnerable. They felt like they needed to be aggressive and attack. It was a status thing.

Speaker 3 23:59

Yeah.

Speaker 24:00

Um, then I wanna tell you about a meeting, and it was. The entire school. It was before school started, and we were looking at our test data. You know, what is the big letter that we're gonna get from the state on how we're doing? We had just received those, you know, letters and the principal wanted me to facilitate it, not him. He said, you know, you have relationships with these teachers. I'm new again, he's one of the five in six years. Mm-hmm. You facilitate that. And I got up and I said, you know, let's, let's take a look at this data. This is gonna tell us a story, and so let's talk about what the story is and the very first teacher, because the first people that speak up are gonna be your talkers, fast thinkers. The very first teacher that started talking, started making excuses about the test and being very defensive about all the reasons why it didn't truly reflect her and her students. And this principal who was new, he had been there, he came in halfway through the year, so he'd been there since January. So we'd had him first semester. He got so frustrated with her response that he stood up, yelled and said, you're not looking at it. Right? And then he just stormed out the door, slammed the door, and everybody in the school is just like, I mean. We couldn't even breathe. Like that's how that data meeting ended. Yeah. And I learned, I learned a lesson from that. You can spend, he was with us for like, I don't know, eight or nine months at that point. You can spend that time trying to prove you're a good leader, but you can lose it in 30 seconds. And he did. He threw a toddler fit and lost it in 30 seconds. And so there's a fine line between accountability. Conflict, you know, of pushing someone. So you have to step into that. And we, we, again, we talked about trust and then we talked about clarity and curiosity and all those things. And so my advice to anybody is to step into those conversations first, build the culture outside, and then as it goes into data, conversations, always start with a positive. Start with a celebration, please. That sets the tone for the rest of the conversation where everybody kind of puts down their shields and their swords. And it's like, yeah, we did something right? Mm-hmm. What did you do that was good? You know, it ta it changes it from a, um, you know, an I gotcha. A firing squad to that flashlight of, Hey, yeah, we did that well. Yeah. So step number one, celebrate something, and then step number two, I would say shift the language. You can start with the norm for the meeting. Norms are so good of setting the tone of this is what we do. This is what we don't do. And so if you, even before the meeting have a norm where we don't use accusatory language, we use curious language. Mm-hmm. Imagine what, how that's gonna change everything. Right? So now I can step in instead of saying, accusatory, why are your scores low? I could step in with like that curiosity in saying, what are our kids showing us here? I mean, that's a different question. Yeah. Again, it makes people drop the shields. Drop the swords, lean in. So again, one, start with celebration. Two, you know, shift the language from accusatory or defensive to curiosity. Set that as a norm. And then I think third is shared ownership. It should never be my kids. Your kids. It's always our kids. Mm-hmm. Us together. I can't tell you how many times I've sat in a meeting where the special ed teacher is, well, you can't compare my data to their data. I'm not comparing data. First of all, I understand you have a different population. We're looking for progress. We're looking for growth, and we're still looking for potholes that we need to come back and fill. And so let's shift that, right? But also shared ownership. Your kids are our kids. All means all that was what my district said all the time, all means all. Yep. It's our kids. So those are like the three things I could think of of how do you develop that culture is celebrate, shift the language from accusatory to curious and then have shared ownership and that will really help change your data conversations.

Speaker 2 28:04

Yeah, I agree 100%. I think a lot of that shared ownership comes from like building those action plans with that data and working on those things together. Um, and, and I think sometimes, sometimes too. I've, I've been in, in the second principal, your second story, that principal situation before I, I did not, I didn't shout anything and walk out the door. Thank goodness that probably would've went so well for me either, but, but I remember having those feelings where it's like, oh, why are we talking about everything else? Like, let's focus on what we can see. And I think so much of that is like. Um, we push this data so hard that sometimes teachers feel like we are saying that the data is the only thing that matters and that it tells all, essentially the data tells all, and, but we know as educators if we take a step back, we all know the data doesn't tell all. Mm-hmm. There's so much additional context there, whether it's the fact that you are teaching a different population or maybe it's, uh, you're looking at a particular student who was out because of illness for an extended amount of. There's mm-hmm. A ton of additional data or a ton of, well, it is kind of data, it's qualitative data, ton of additional context there. Mm-hmm. That sometimes goes unsaid. And if you're walking through these meetings with the attitude of, we don't need to talk about that stuff. We need to talk about the data. It festers.

Speaker 3 29:37

Yeah.

Speaker 2 29:38

Right. And that's when you start seeing that body language. Mm-hmm. And start hearing those that huffing and puffing and, and, um, so I've actually done this before, and I've talked about this a few times on the podcast where, like, at the beginning, in addition to like looking at celebrations, also just saying, okay, what do we not see on here? Let's make a list. Let's get it all out of our system essentially so that we all are on the same page and we know. The additional context, and we can take that into consideration while we're creating these action plans or looking at this data

Speaker 3 30:08

mm-hmm. And giving

Speaker 2 30:09

them a chance to, to just get it out of them because, um, you're right, they, it, it's such a hard, it's hard for the leader who's leading that meeting to ignore it, and it's hard for the, the staff to ignore it. Absolutely. So just like, go ahead.

Speaker 30:26

I was gonna say there's a principle on that and it's one that I've come to to always follow, and it's always named the elephant in every room. I was just gonna say the elephant in the room. Yes. Every meeting you're in, there's an elephant there, name it. Yes, yes. When you name the elephant, it actually shrinks. If you don't name it, it gets larger. Yes. And it's taking up so much space that people are just like feeling cramped and like, I can't do anything else because I can't concentrate. Because the elephant's so big and pushing on me. Name the elephant always. That's how you shrink it.

Speaker 2 30:52

Oh my goodness. That's so funny. I was literally gonna say the elephant in the room took that words right outta my mouth. That's hilarious. Okay, I wanna, uh, talk about your leadership on the Rocks framework and um, I want you to go through it with a little bit more of like a data lens and kind of tell us how that, how that goes.

Speaker 31:08

Absolutely. So my whole concept of what I learned in leadership is, and I, I'm a lover of self-help podcast reading books. Me too. And I was always looking for the right system. Just tell me the, the three steps, the 10 steps, the 12 steps that I need to do and implement it and I'll get it done. And what I came to find out is there is no perfect system out there, right? The challenges are gonna continue to go. I call it navigating a wilderness. You're always gonna have a wilderness in front of you. It's gonna be a challenge, an unknown, a problem, a conflict, a constraint. And so looking at data is, there's always gonna be a story that it's telling you there are some good parts that you can celebrate, but there's some wilderness that you're like, I don't even know where to go with this. What do I do with this? So let's just call that a wilderness. And so. In my book and in my just concept is you have to learn the skills of how to navigate the wilderness. And I call it having the body of leadership. And this is not necessarily a framework. I mean, I could call it that, but it's more of a honing skills to navigate. That's what it is. And so I want you to think about the body of leadership. In the body of leadership. Let me just name the four parts. First. You have the head of leadership and it's all about how you think about whatever it is in front of you. So in this case, the data in front of you and your mindset. So the head of leadership is your mindset. How do I think about it? The second part is your heart, the heart of leadership. The relationship piece, it's how do I connect to the people involved in this? And here with data, it's your kids, but it's also the teachers that you're collaborating with, right? And so the heart is how do I connect it? And then you have the hands of leadership, and it's all about execution. It's how do I get things done? The whole point of data is to, again, gain. Facts, knowledge, turn them into insight and then change that to wisdom. So you have action, you have to do something with it. You have to take action forward to make progress. And so that's the hands of leadership is all about execution and action. Do it. And then the fourth part is the guts of leadership. The guts of leadership is about accountability. And it's what I call, like owning it. How do I look at all the things and say, okay, I need to own this. I, I need to get better in this area. But also how can I support others so that they can have growth too? So accountability. So how do we put this into the data set? We have the head mindset, the heart relationships, the hands execution, and the guts. Accountability. Let's start with the head and we can go deepest into the head. Looking at data, we already talked about it. If I have the lens of defensiveness, image management, and competition. All the data is skewed, period. It's gonna be invalid. I'm gonna argue against it, and I'm not showing up with the right lens. A mindset is a lens that you, a perspective that you operate through. It helps you navigate. Think about GPS. If you don't have your navigation settings right, you're not gonna get to the location you need to get to and you can adjust it. So first question you have to ask yourself is, how am I thinking about this? The head of leadership. What perspective do I have? Do I need to change perspective? Do I need to ask other people for their perspective? Check your head, check your thinking. So the second part of that is gonna be the heart of leadership. And again, that is relationship, but what builds relationships? Communication. So how am I talking about this data? I gotta stay open, I gotta stay curious, I gotta stay empathetic. What kind of questions am I asking? It's very, very important that I stay empathetic and curious so that I'm asking the right questions of the data. Um, and it's really, communication is about connecting people to people first and then people to the message second. So think about what data tells you. Yes, data's telling you a story, it's telling you something. So first, with my communication, connect the people to people in the room. On that data conversation and then we can connect people to the message. What's the data actually saying? It is a diag diagnostic tool for growth, but I can't use the tool if my head's not right and my heart's not in the right place of working with others.'cause we're both using the tool together. Yeah. Um, that now the third piece is the hands, the hands is all about execution, right? It's, it's action is now required. And so you've gotta take the spreadsheet. Turn it into a story. What's the story saying? And that does take skillset. If you're a brand new baby teacher, you know, first year, first three years, that's a skillset you've gotta learn. And you don't have it yet.

Speaker 3 35:44

Yeah,

Speaker 35:45

it's okay. Give yourself grace in that moment. If you're a veteran teacher and you're so used to doing things one way, you have to recognize that too, of what's the story saying and what am I gonna do in response? Always ask the question. What's it saying and what action am I taking on it? That's the hands of leadership, and then you have, again, the guts taking ownership. You're not the perfect teacher. Don't fight for the image to be a perfect teacher. It is always about progress. It is not about perfection. And so own that. What can you learn from it? Focus on growth. That's true. Accountability. I think that's where you kind of end what this hurts. This data hurts a little bit here, but what's my next step? And then go. So there you go. Quick recap of the entire body so everybody gets it. I'm a teacher. You gotta have like the process. So if you're watching this visually, I'm doing hand motions with it. The head of leadership, how do I think it? The heart of leadership, how do I connect it? The hands of leadership, how do I do it? And then the guts of leadership. How do I own it? There you go. Because it's all connected, always.

Speaker 2 36:48

My goodness. I love it so much. And I think it's spot on with, um, everything I talk about in terms of data and, and how to be a leader through using data with your schools, um, and all of the different aspects. I was. Kind of hoping for a, a, a feat of leadership or a feat. What are, what are we stepping on? Just kidding. I

Speaker 37:15

stop at the guts

Speaker 2 37:16

if I go too long. If you have

Speaker 37:18

more than three or four steps, people get lost. Right? So you had to I had to cut it at four.

Speaker 2 37:23

I just had to, had to make it weird. Um, okay, perfect. Well, thank you so much for taking us through that because there's so much knowledge there, um, that we are going to turn into wisdom by acting on it. Um, so, uh, from here, how can our listeners get in touch with you?

Speaker 37:41

Well, the easiest way is leadership on the rocks.com. It's like a campfire. It's where I hang out. It's where all my leadership tools hang out, and it's where I'm making s'mores to give you. So you can go to, yeah, leadership on the rocks.com. Um, you can also grab my book, leadership on the Rocks. Uh, it's available on Amazon and it really is, it walks you through this entire thing of how to navigate the wilderness that you're in. Um, and you can turn that concept into anything. Uh, whether it's data, whether it's leadership at work, whether it's leadership in the home, I mean, it applies to all of it. Yeah. It's, it's a universal principle. Um, but if you like your leadership lessons shaken and not stirred, you can also find me on my Leadership on the Rocks podcast. There's a little whiskey glass emblem on that. So Leadership on the Rocks podcast. And I'm also on all the, the socials, except if talk, I'm not there. But, um, I'm most active on LinkedIn under Bethany Reese, but I do have also leadership on the rocks for LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram. But again, you can connect to all those things if you just go to the website, leadership on the rocks.com.

Speaker 2 38:42

Perfect. Awesome. And uh, I do have a link here for something that I'm gonna put in the show notes. Do you wanna explain what that is?

Speaker 38:50

Absolutely. So I love freebies. I used to be an ultimate couponer. I love free stuff, so I love giving away free stuff. Um, you know, there's so many obstacles that you go through, you know, whether you are, um, leading teams and then now you have conflict. Oh, no, how do I navigate the conflict if you're having meetings and they just absolutely. Suck. How do I fix that? If you, um, you know, just need a survival checklist, like I went through the four body parts of leadership, if you just want a survival checklist, all of that is available at leadership on the rocks.com/free. And you're gonna get all of those resources, pick the ones that you need most, um, that leadership on the rocks.com/free, and you can get access to all of my freebies.

Speaker 2 39:35

Oh, I love it so much. Okay, well thank you so much for coming and chatting with me all about data culture. Bethany, it's been such a good

Speaker 39:42

conversation. Jessica, thank you so much for hosting me. It's been fabulous. And thank you for the work you're doing. I mean, data is really hard for a lot of people and you're making it easy and applicable because it's so important. So thank you for the work you're doing.

Speaker 2 39:54

Yeah, absolutely. Thank you. All right. Have a great rest of your day. Y'all too. Bye.