Your Data is Boring. Here's How to Fix It. with Danny Bauer

I'm diving into this episode of Data in Education with Danny Bauer, the Chief Ruckus Maker from Better Leaders Better Schools. Danny is a 20-year education veteran, a bestselling author, and the host of a top 1% global podcast (RuckusCast) who is on a mission to prove that the best leaders are the best storytellers. He believes that to truly lead, you have to do more than just present the data; you have to wrap it in a story that connects to the heart. Danny’s entire philosophy is about helping school leaders do school differently. In our chat, he breaks down the exact techniques he uses to craft compelling narratives that turn resistance into resonance and data into a shared call to action.

Learn more about Danny Bauer at https://betterleadersbetterschools.com

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Transcript

Speaker 2 0:50

Welcome to Data and Education, where today we're going to explore a slightly controversial idea, although maybe not for my listeners, but stories we're exploring the fact that stories are actually more powerful than data, which we all know. I am a huge fan of the stories as well. So I'm talking with Danny, Danny Bauer, the Chief Ruckus maker from Better Leaders, better Schools. He's a 20 year education veteran, a bestselling author, and a host of a top 1% global podcast who believes that the best leaders are the best storytellers. Danny's entire mission is to help school leaders do school differently, and he's here to show us how to stop just presenting the numbers and start telling compelling data stories that actually inspire action and connect with our teens. I am so excited for this conversation. Danny, welcome to the podcast. So happy to have you.

Speaker 1:41

Thanks Jessica. It's a pleasure to be here. Appreciate that.

Speaker 2 1:44

Yeah, for sure. So I gave a very brief intro with a, I mean, there's a lot in there. I want you to unpack it a little bit for us and, and give us a little bit more of your story and how you ended up where you are today.

Speaker 1:57

Yeah, I like, I like to talk about, uh, going, going to high school, right? And I'm waiting for my friend, uh, Lindsay probably my best friend. We grew up together. Our parents knew each other before we were born. And she's a princess. She's the third of three, uh, girls, right? And so she's the darling and gets her way with everything, especially with her dad. And so the world just revolves around this person and I love her so much. So she's, she's my ride to high school. I could walk. It's about a 15 minute walk. It's doable for sure. Uh, you know, I could ride my bike there, but you know, I'm in high school. I wanna be cool. I want to arrive in a car. So Lindsay's my ride, like I said, best friend, and she says, you know, does quarter to eight work works perfect because school begins at eight. So there I am. Waiting for Lindsay to show up. You know, it's 7 45. She's not there. I'm not worried. You know, it's 7 50, 7 55 and I'm like, okay, this is like very Lindsay. So at that point I start looking outside, you know, the curtains.'cause maybe looking peeking outside will make her arrive a little bit faster. Right? Eight o'clock high school is supposed to start, like, we're officially gonna be late. There's no way. Unless we have a time travel machine or something to get there on time. And so at this point, nervously, I walk outside and I'm looking down the street as if that will make her come. It doesn't. Right. So I go back inside just, ah, I try to, you know, focus on the breath and relax and wait. Well, she arrives. It's eight 15. We're 15 minutes late already. Right. Get in the car, you know, we listen to nine inch nails, uh, on the way to, on the way to school. We're there by eight 20. You know, I get to first period chemistry class with Mr. Rogers. I'm in trouble because Lindsay's been my ride all year. I've been late most of the year to Mr. Rogers' first period class. It's probably suspension time. I've had detentions, I've had all this sort of stuff, and we're gonna be in trouble. So I have to think fast, Jessica. And so when Mr. Rogers lets me in the door,'cause he would lock his door, you know, if you were late type of thing. And I said, Mr. Rogers. Before you say anything, I'm so sorry. This time was different. I promise. Alright, Bower, let me hear it. Mr. Rogers says, and so I let him know, Hey, on the way to school today, today was different. There was a house and it was on fire, right? But not only was this house on fire, it was filled with a Girl Scout troop. Right. Screaming for help, of course, for the passerby. Right. What would you do in this situation, Mr. Rogers? Would you just walk away, let the girls, you know, burn? I, this is before cell phones, so we couldn't like, like call for the fire, uh, department or anything like that. And so I let'em know. I rushed into the house, you know, grabbed the girls, got'em all out to safety and I don't know if it was that. Maybe you could call it a fib. I call it a story, but that very real story I told Mr. Rogers, or if it was the very real Doy Dough peanut butter cookie. Right. Arguably the best Girl Scout cookie that I handed to Mr. Rogers. No detention, no suspension. And what I learned in that moment is that it pays, it literally pays to learn how to tell stories.

Speaker 2 5:14

Yeah, absolutely. I'm curious why you just happened to have a Girl Scout cookie with you. Is that what inspired the story?

Speaker 5:22

Uh, probably. I mean, I knew I had to lie and figure something out, but, uh, the Girl Scouts come, come by, right. And, uh, I don't remember at the time if my sister was a Girl Scout or if somebody just stopped by the house. Um, but we definitely had thin mints, doi doughs. The Samoas. Yeah. You know, we, we had a, we had a, an abundance of Girl Scout cookies at the time.

Speaker 2 5:42

Yeah, well that would work for me for sure. So I don't, I don't blame Mr. Rogers there. Yeah. Um, so, and, and go on.

Speaker 5:48

Were the days of mom sending me with a note and a lunch, you know, to school, um, in high school at this point. So I had to fend for myself, and so I picked a very, you know, nutritious, uh, menu.

Speaker 2 5:59

Yeah, absolutely. Okay. So you learned very early on the power of telling stories, and I am, I'm curious how that, uh. How you kind of transitioned that, that skill of storytelling into something that, um, became a leadership skill. Essentially.

Speaker 6:20

Sure, sure. Well, you know, I was in, I was in the classroom for decades, uh, before I moved into administration. I was ap, I was principal. I worked at central office, uh, basically as a, a avid coordinator, you know, but Uhhuh big role because I was over, I don't know, nearly 30 schools, uh, in Chicago public schools. So there was, there was a lot of support there. Uh, but even as a teacher, I realized. Uh, you know, nouns and verbs and adjectives, ad verbs and diagramming sentences, this kind of stuff. I taught middle school. I also taught high school. It's boring. Why would you wanna learn that? Yeah, nobody would. And so I had to figure out like, how do I relate to students? How do I grab their attention? Uh, and, and I guess display a radical curiosity about who they are and try to find those sort of like connection points, uh, to keep, keep, um, yeah, keep them engaged. And the same stuff that worked in the classroom. You know, the audience was different, but that radical curiosity, the storytelling that worked with adults as well. You know, in these days, uh, I've been doing my podcast for a decade, believe it or not. Uh, we're recording here. It's September, end of September, 2025. I started this September 2nd, 2015. Right. Wow. So, um, it's changed my life. I've been able to go around the world, uh, literally speaking, uh, to groups as small as. Maybe 10 in, uh, Laramie, Wyoming, and as large as 1000 in Mombasa, Kenya. Right. And everything in between. Uh, and all I've brought with me is, you know, maybe some pictures behind me and some stories. Right. That's what I do. So,

Speaker 2 7:53

yeah. Cool. Are you still, um, mostly living in Chicago?

Speaker 7:59

In Chicago? No, no. You know, that's where I grew up and so I, uh, suffered the horrible existence of a Bears fan and, uh, man, at least they won last week. Uh, but. Uh, you know, these days I'm in Syracuse, New York, so I've lived in four different states around the US and, uh, I've lived in four different countries, us, Belgium, Netherlands, and Scotland. Uh, but these days, yeah, Syracuse, New York is hq.

Speaker 2 8:24

Yeah, I, um, my teaching experience was in Chicago, uh, not with Chicago public schools, but with a tiny charter school, um, within the city. So, uh, Chicago is, is my second home. Um, only second to Cincinnati. And that's only due to time. Um, otherwise if we're, if we're looking at the scale of food or things to do,

Speaker 8:47

sure, probably

Speaker 2 8:47

gonna go to Chicago.

Speaker 8:49

All right. Good choice probably.

Speaker 2 8:51

Yeah. Um, okay, so you go around telling these stories. Um, how do you kind of. Teach this skill. I'm curious because this is something that I've struggled with as someone who I, I love storytelling. I love hearing stories. Um, I love telling stories with like my friends and stuff, but when it comes to telling stories related to. My work, or maybe I should put it this way, when it comes to telling intentional stories that are, that exist for the purpose of like sharing, um, a very important point. I, I feel like I struggle with that, so I'd love to hear all of your tips.

Speaker 9:33

Yeah. My storytelling mentor, uh, my Yoda when it comes to story, his name's, um, Matthew Dix, and he's actually a teacher as well. I was listening to him on a podcast, driving to see my sister and. Uh, Massachusetts and I probably nearly drove off the road. I didn't even realize I was driving, and that's because I was so ingrained, right. Just with him in this story. And then he said, uh, I'm an elementary school teacher. I was in love, right? Like, wow, somebody from education who is so exceptional at storytelling. And people have told me over the years that, uh, you know, I've had a knack for telling stories and sure, I've been hired to speak and all this kind of stuff, successful podcast. But when I started working with Matt more intentionally in the last year and a half, uh, he showed me some things that were invisible. That now, right? You can't not see. And he's given me a framework that actually makes storytelling super easy, um, once you sort of get the building blocks. Uh, so some of those things too, you know, um, obviously a story has a beginning, middle, and end, right? You would think that that's not rocket science, but it kind of is, you know? Yeah. Uh, and if you think about structure and that kind of thing, you know what a lot of people do. That they report on events this happened and then this, and then this, and then this.

Speaker 3 11:03

Right. And

Speaker 11:04

that also is just as boring as nouns. Verbs add verbs and adjectives. That's right. Right. It's super boring. Uh, that's probably how you tell stories to friends and family. They probably are really generous and kind and say, oh, that was a great story. They're lying to your

Speaker 2 11:20

face. They don't usually lie to me.

Speaker 11:22

That's stop's. Alright, that's good. That's good. Uh, but I think for most people, and, and you know, you find yourself in a leadership position too, right? Everyone wants to say you're amazing, right? It's like chat, GPT, you know, it was like chat GPT before chat, GPT be a leader. And everyone's like, that's a great idea. Then you leave. What a stupid idea, you know? Yes, exactly. Uh, anyways, I'm going on a tangent there, but you don't wanna report. You want have a beginning, middle, and end, um, anywhere that you want to add an and, and then a then maybe don't. Think about what would happen in this story if you used a but or a therefore, right? And so those are just like little techniques because you know, you're bringing people along some kind of path and the, and is like linear, right? But if it's a, but there's probably some kind of change, some kind of pivot. Yeah. That wakes me back up, you know, if I think about it in the terms of, uh, YouTube,'cause I know you've been putting these shows on, on YouTube and that kind of thing. Um. On YouTube, like probably like every five to seven seconds, the scene kind of changes, maybe visually, even if it's not narratively changing. And that's just to keep people engaged, right? So depending on the setting, you might be afforded a little bit longer to tell a proper story. Uh, but you wanna be thinking, what's the next scene? What's the next scene? So that. Sort of gives another, um, principle of storytelling, location, location, location. Like that's where the scenes are happening. Uh, and you wanna start each scene with a location in action, right? And if it's anything other than that, cut it. Just cut it. Something I've learned, um, telling a lot of stories over the years. I try to pack too many stories into one and feedback I get all the time from AI and real live people. That is multiple stories, right. Told a story about a crazy, uh, Airbnb sort of experience. Right? Because I was speaking at the Moth. It's a competitive storytelling event and the theme was hospitality. So I told a story of basically the worst hospitality I ever experienced. Okay. And, uh, essentially like the, the, um, punchline so to speak, is we're, we're in, um. Casablanca Morocco, right? I'm upstairs, I'm in the kitchen of an Airbnb. We've, we've rented my wife's downstairs preparing for a work, uh, event in the shower. She's also Zimbabwean, she's black. So black folks have different hair than, than you and I probably, and so it just, you know, it, it takes a different and a lot more, right? Uh. Whatever, just it, it, it takes a lot more, uh, effort. Okay. Yeah. So anyways, that, that, I just wanted to give you that context, but I'm, I'm in the, I'm in the kitchen. I'm making us coffee. Miriam is showering and at the same moment I hear her scream and there's a knock at the door. So I open the door and a man starts shouting at me in Arabic words, I don't understand, right? And he hands me a letter in Arabic,'cause I'm in Morocco, something I can't read. He looks really mad. I'm wondering what's gonna happen next. And just then he turns around. Disappears down the stairwell. I run down the stairs after closing the door'cause my wife had screamed and I'm like, what's going on? The water's been cut off. Oh no. She has a work thing in like five, 10 minutes. What are we gonna do? Right? I use Google Translate to look at the letter and it basically says, you're a jerk. You didn't pay your water bill. And I'm thinking, I'm not the jerk. The Airbnb host, when I rented it, I thought it came with doors. That lock water that works, you know, all sorts of stuff. Maybe some wifi, wifi works, water doesn't work. We, we message the uh, uh, the host and she's just like, Hey. That's just the way things are in Africa. Uh, we're experiencing rolling, uh, droughts, right? And so like we just shut the water off throughout the city BS because we, we translated, we translated the letter, right? So anyways, yeah, got her, got her water, all this kind of stuff, and she got washed up and ended up going, uh, going to, um, her work event. But, uh, you know, the night before we kind of gambled in terms of the restaurant, right? And, uh. It was delicious. We wanted to get gin one last time. It's chicken that's cooked in the clay pot, but I think I kind of gambled, right? It wasn't the cleanest place that we've ever eaten. And sometimes if you've traveled the world, you eat in some places that are a little bit, you know, oh, I don't know about that. And so, uh, I'm like not feeling well. The water's not working. No, we're in trouble. And so I decide, hey, I got, we gotta get a refund for this Airbnb. Go, you know, to a hotel or something like that. We end up in the, you know, the Marriott, right? Working air conditioning, working water, all this kind of stuff. But, but the thing that I learned, and it was over tacos and burgers instead of tag and traditional Moroccan food. And I'm sitting there, uh, with my wife and I realized this moment really sucked, right? It was really pretty terrible. But creating moments with people you love, there's nothing better than that. Even though if I knew going into the experience, the water would be cut off, I'd be sick, all this kind of stuff, I still would've done it. Right. Or I'm thankful that I did because I made this memory with Miriam and you know, she's my favorite person. That's my wife, right? Um, yeah. And so that's the moral of the story, right?

Speaker 2 17:05

Yeah. Oh my goodness. I love it. So when you, and that's the same story that you told in the competition.

Speaker 17:11

Uh, it was a little bit longer. It was like, like a six minute-ish story, right? And it was a lot tighter. You know, I didn't think I would tell it for this one. Um, so I think I did a very average job telling the story. You know, you could tell me if you thought it was any good or any bad, but. Some of the things, right? Like there were some scenes, I'm in the kitchen, I'm down with my wife. I don't think I explained very well, but I ran, you know, I ran to go get the water from a, a convenience store, came back. Um, there's a whole sort of bit I do about like, uh, you know, uh, gambling and waddling on my way to the hotel, right. You know?

Speaker 3 17:46

Yes.

Speaker 17:46

Uh, something I didn't do is we, we, um. And this is a storytelling method, so sorry I didn't model it, but I'm glad I'm unpacking it for you. Uh, Matt loves to talk about stakes and backpacks and it's like sort of loading up your audience for. Um, just feeling the emotion and the drama, right? So it, it usually, like when I perform, perform that story, I talk about how, you know, if we're gonna travel from America to Morocco, Miriam and I are the kind of people that we love to do it the authentic way, right? And so there's no way that we're gonna go to KFC, although it's everywhere around the world or McDonald's. Um, we're not gonna. Uh, you know, stay at the Marriott and I forget the third thing that I would say, but I put, I hint that there's no way I'll ever go to the Marriott, right? I, I put that seed in somebody's head, and then after I'm talking about walking and I finally make it, and this hotel is clean, it has air conditioning, and it has water. I'm so thankful to be staying at the Marriott, and when I reveal it there, like five minutes later, four minutes later, that always gets a really, you know, big laugh. Yeah. Um, yeah. And ultimately what makes a story, a story is a five second moment. Right. And so for me, the five second moment is sitting with my wife, realizing this experience was really hard. We wouldn't have picked it. Knowing it would be really hard, but yet I'm thankful. Life's about making memories, right? Instead of collecting a bunch of stuff. This is my point of view and doing it with people you love. Right? So that's the, the five second sort of like insight, right. That I had. Um, what makes the story kind of okay.

Speaker 2 19:27

I love it. I, I think it's a great story. Um, and I think there's a lot in there that's like, uh, relatable too. You know, like people, when you, when you hit that five seconds, it's like, um. Oh, I can think through some of the memories that I have that have been disastrous, but I'm glad I had them because of the people that I was with. Like,

Speaker 3 19:45

yeah, I think that

Speaker 2 19:46

relatability too, just like the feelings that come from that are awesome. Um, so I'm curious how you turn this into like a leadership skill. How does this. Become beneficial for school leaders specifically

Speaker 19:59

because I think, you know, unless you're sort of like an engineer coming from sort of a STEM background and you think numbers are really great, like overall numbers are kind of like not as interesting, maybe even boring or not as motivating, right? So. I think data might inform you, but stories move people because it touches here, the heart, right? Um, that's what Matt loves my humor at times, and he, he loves when I'm able, he says, you make people feel something, right? And so if you could get people to feel something through your story in relation to the data, your student performance, attendance, discipline, you know, whatever, now they're gonna be thinking right? Um, they're gonna relate. I think that was a word you used, Jessica. Uh, and if you get them there now their mind is open to potentially changing, you know, the, the storytelling. Like literally, if you ever have a group of people and say, Hey, can I tell you a story? Watch their body language. A lot of people will lean in. They'll be like, yeah, I am. I already noticed

Speaker 2 20:57

that. I'm leaning in. So yeah, I'm

Speaker 20:59

DNA programmed, right? For thousands of years. Yeah, to sit around a fire and somebody says, let me tell you a story, and I'm ready. Right. And hopefully it's a good one. So it gives hints about the human experience too, you know? And so in terms of leadership as well, uh, I think it's a mistake to. Keep apart or separate too much, the public and the private. Right. Um, some school leaders, you know, that's who I usually work with. Uh, think they need to like hide their personal life or only talk about work. Right. Um, and. They probably just don't want to get burned, I think, you know? Mm-hmm. Uh, maybe they don't want to get hurt. Uh, maybe they've just gotten poor advice, uh, from other folks, you know, that come before'em.

Speaker 3 21:51

Right. Um.

Speaker 21:52

But when you tell stories that are real, right? People connect to you and they're gonna want to do, they're gonna want you to be successful. You know?

Speaker 3 22:01

Yeah.

Speaker 22:02

Uh, assuming that you're doing other things, like showing interest and caring about your staff and you know, everything else. And so I think. Telling a story about that five second moment, that insight, that change story about your kids, you know, what you're learning. And so a, a hint, you know, for your audience, I was working with a ed tech company and they help, um, use AI to really speed up sort of accommodations. You know, uh, central office might have great training. Great people lead in, um, great people implementing, you know, in the classrooms too, but time, uh, and, and teaching can just be a, a challenge, you know?

Speaker 3 22:42

Yep.

Speaker 22:43

Um, and even though on paper all the IEPs and accommodations look perfect, right. In reality, maybe they're not actually lived out all the time. And so, um, yeah. When I was working with this guy who started this company, we, we, we talked about, uh. Basically a time where his son was getting like, just super frustrated, super frustrated, uh, they were working in their garage and I don't know, it's like. Uh, making stuff right, like dad and son type of thing. And he realized he was getting upset and then he had to walk away and his son was like finally able to sort of figure it out. But we, we used that story actually for him to sort of like, um, pitch the company a bit, uh, because essentially the tool helps students figure it out. Right.

Speaker 3 23:33

Yeah.

Speaker 23:34

And if you could have confidence at scale that your IEPs are written well, and a teacher with a click of a button could take their lesson plan and then have it, uh, adapted right to all the kids mm-hmm. Based on, you know, their personal IEPs or accommodations like. Wouldn't that give you, wouldn't that make you feel great, you know, in terms of confidence and that they could figure it out, et cetera, et cetera. Um, but many founders or leaders, you know, they're, they're gonna wanna just like, talk about their company or in, in your context. Let's talk about data and why we need to change as a school.

Speaker 3 24:06

Hmm.

Speaker 24:06

I don't know. I mean, maybe if I want to, like, if I care a lot, but like make me feel something and now I wanna change, you know? So ho hopefully that's making sense.

Speaker 2 24:16

Yeah, absolutely. And, and what's interesting is that I just. Just last week announced that I am actually taking a position as a director for a new ed tech startup. So, uh Oh,

Speaker 3 24:26

cool.

Speaker 2 24:27

Yeah, and, and over my, so it's with the, the founder, essentially someone I've worked with for the past couple years, just kind of on little side projects and um, and she tells the story about. How, when her son was diagnosed with autism, how she began to track the little progress monitoring aspects of, um, of the things that they were trying with him. And I'm telling, I'm doing a very poor version of her story, um, speaking of storytelling. But she tells it and it's such an impactful story and I think that's why she's gotten as far, not one of the many reasons why she's gotten as far as she has is because she has that story and people can connect to it. Whether it's as a parent or as a teacher in the classroom, you know, like having those moments where you're just like, it feels like the, the student is not understanding it, but then if you break it down into those tiny steps, they are, they're just not getting that big step all at once. They're getting the tiny steps in between.

Speaker 3 25:31

Hmm. And

Speaker 2 25:31

so, so feeling that story and kind of feeling, uh, how relatable it is as a teacher, I think has been. Super beneficial in us, kind of, um, allowing people to understand what, why we exist. So,

Speaker 25:47

yeah. That's

Speaker 2 25:48

interesting. Well, lemme paint a

Speaker 25:49

pic. It is interesting. You're right. Yeah. Sorry to cut you off. I just wanted to paint a picture, you know, for, for you and, uh, those watching or listening, right? Like the traditional principle. He's going to stand up in front of his or her staff. They're gonna have some, uh, presentation. It's gonna have way too many words on slides. Right. It's gonna have, uh, you know, hard to read probably graphs and stuff like that. Yep. And it's like, and. Maybe depending on the situation, it was given to you by the central office too, right? So you're just like, what am I gonna do with this? Fill in the blank. I'll use the word garbage.

Speaker 3 26:31

Yep, exactly. But I might

Speaker 26:32

pick a more colorful word. Word if it were me. Um, what you gonna do with that? Right? Like, it's true. Alright, data's down. Like, okay, kids aren't at reading at the right level, whatever. And so think like if you're in that position and you have some autonomy. And you're also open to trying something new, right? What is the theme? The meaning or the message that you want to, uh, give to your sort of staff, right? Based on the data. And maybe there's like, Hey, we, we got feedback. Some of the feedback's good, some of it stings a bit, so what are we gonna do about it? Right? So the, the traditional principle, too many words on slides, the data, and it's like, okay, that's the data. So now, now we have to change. Right? It's'cause'cause it's your job too, right? Like so that's why you have to change. But what have you told a story about. Yourself. Maybe you're a kid, maybe you're an adult, and you got some feedback and it stung. Right? And then what did you learn from that? Like how did you respond? Right? What was your insight after getting that feedback? Tell that story. Then after telling that story, be like, we just got some feedback that stings a bit, right? We did some things. Well, I want to point'em out, X, Y, and Z. But also, uh, here's, here's some areas where we need to improve. Can we look at that and what are we gonna do about it? Right. And I think just if you primed, uh, the staff, the audience, so to speak, with that personal story, right. Connected to the theme, meaning message of. The feedback, uh, stung. And now we had to do, I had to do something about it. I think they would be more open to figuring out like, what are we gonna do about it as a school? Yeah. Um, versus Yeah. Oh, the data's here and it stinks. And so everybody has to change. Right,

Speaker 2 28:14

right. Um. Check the box, move on. Go.

Speaker 28:17

For sure. Going to PLCs for the first time. Tell a story about being on a team. That was awesome, right? And, uh, learning from mistakes and building on successes, you know, so, but that, that's the thing. It's like, what's the theme? The meaning and the message too. And that should be the through line of the story. Anything that's not about that theme, meaning a message, cut it out. Cut it out. Um, in that Morocco story, I used to have a. I have a part that's really funny about mistaken identity, right? And so that was the second story. So I had to take it out, didn't serve the theme meaning and message, right? So I was able to be shorter then, and then I was able to tell that story in a, a, a different time and I actually got rated a 9 0 9 oh and nine five for, uh, telling it. Um, so anyways, yeah, it was good, but didn't fit in the first one, so

Speaker 2 29:04

Right.

Speaker 29:05

You gotta, you gotta let things go at times.

Speaker 2 29:07

Yeah, absolutely. Um. I think too, especially when we're talking about data, it's so important to pull in those stories. I think that when we're talking, when we're looking at just numbers, it's easy to feel very disconnected because like we don't go into education to look at numbers, right? Uh, yeah. And it feels kind of like we're like. Labeling our students with numbers, which, which feels really junky. Um, yeah. And so being able to bring it back to that story, whether it's a personal story that you have, um, to kind of, you know, bring, uh, bring awareness to the fact that we might feel a little bit defensive about the data or to talk about the stories of the students. I think all of that is important context that shows that you as a leader are not. Ignoring the rest of the context that's out there. We're not, we're not saying that the data tells, all the data never tells, all

Speaker 3 30:01

right. It's

Speaker 2 30:01

never going to show the whole story. So bringing in those, that additional context is, I think so incredibly important, and it's such a big reason why I wanted to bring you on the podcast as well.

Speaker 30:12

Cool. Yeah. Thank you.

Speaker 2 30:13

Yeah. So, um, as we begin to wrap up, I just want to make sure everyone knows where to find you. I want you to make sure to, um, plug your podcast so that we can get, uh, some of our people over there listening to more fantastic stories and anything else that you've got.

Speaker 30:31

Yeah. You know, um, uh, if people wanna learn more, right? The, the show's called Better Leaders, better Schools In, uh, better Leaders, better schools.com is is a website. Uh, we have a free newsletter that's at Ruckus Makers News. Uh, I think by the time this. Um, show airs. Uh, I will have already started a storytelling workshop. It's a six week experience. Um, so it might be too late for your listeners to potentially join, uh, which is fine. We'll run it again later. Um, or right. A if you get on the, the newsletter at Ruckus Makers News, uh, I do know after the six weeks are over. Then I'll, um, I'll probably package it up. You won't have me live, but if you wanted to go through the content, you could do that, you know, at a very, uh, affordable, accessible, you know, way. So that's pretty cool if, if, you know, people are into story. Like I said, my mentors, um, Matthew Dicks, he taught me so much about story and, uh, he has a great book called Story Worthy, so I didn't write it, but I, I, I loved reading it and, uh, you should maybe check that out too.

Speaker 2 31:43

Awesome. Well, thank you so much Danny, for coming on, um, this podcast and sharing your stories and also sharing, uh, tips that other people can take and, uh, use to share their own stories. So I appreciate that.

Speaker 31:56

My pleasure. Thank you, Jessica.