Cultural Competency Isn’t a Buzzword—It’s a Path to Understanding

Summary

In this episode, Dr. Nashay Lowe talks with Lila Raouf, an expert in international development and emergency management, to explore the concept of cultural competency. They discuss the importance of cultural humility over mastery, the evolution of understanding cultural competency through personal experiences, and the necessity of curiosity in cross-cultural interactions. The conversation highlights the risks of lacking cultural competency in the U.S. and emphasizes the need for social cohesion. Lila shares insights from her research on refugee education and the potential for positive change in humanitarian work, concluding with a hopeful outlook for the future.

Key Takeaways

• Cultural humility is more important than cultural mastery.
• Cultural competency should be viewed as a mindset.
• Personal experiences shape our understanding of cultural competency.
• Preparation and openness are crucial in research.
• Curiosity leads to deeper understanding across cultures.
• Lack of cultural competency risks social cohesion in the U.S.
• Americans often have a different perspective on cultural norms.
• There are many ways to approach education and humanitarian work.
• Cultural competency is essential for effective leadership.
• Hope exists for positive change in humanitarian efforts. 

Chapters

• 0:00 Exploring Cultural Competency in Real-World Contexts
• 4:16 Defining Cultural Competency: Beyond Soft Skills
• 9:32 Evolving Understanding: Personal Experiences in Cultural Competency
• 15:08 Balancing Preparation and Openness in Research
• 18:54 Curiosity Over Assumptions: The Importance of Humility
• 21:54 Cultural Competency in the U.S.: Risks and Social Cohesion
• 24:50 Lessons on Human Connection Across Cultures
• 29:37 Hope for the Future: Shifts in Humanitarian Work
• 33:00 Future Aspirations and Closing Thoughts

Transcript

Dr. Shay: 0:02

Welcome back to The Resolution Room, where we turn tension into transformation through clarity, connection, and consistency. I'm your host, Dr. Nashay Lowe, and this is a space where we explore what's really underneath the moments that challenge us and how they can lead to something more honest, more human, and more whole. So let's get into it. In this episode, I sit down with international development and emergency management professional Lila Raouf to unpack what cultural competency really looks like, not just in theory, but in high stakes, real world environments. Lila brings grounded insight into how culture, language, history, and power all shape the way we engage across differences. Together, we'll explore why cultural humility matters more than cultural mastery and how this work is essential not just abroad, but in our own communities and institutions. Lila, can you introduce yourself? Tell us about your international experiences and the current research that you're doing.

Lila Raouf: 1:17

Sure. Hi, Shay. It's so nice to see you after such a long time. My name is Laila Raouf. So I have worked in the international development, refugee resettlement, and emergency management space for the past 10 years. I started my career with the United States Peace Corps as a youth development and education volunteer specialist in Jordan and Kyrgyzstan. And then after some years in the development space, I got experience with refugee education and refugee resettlement in the United States and then transitioned to emergency management where I worked for the Federal Emergency Management Agency for a few years out of Washington, D.C. Last year, I left my position because I was awarded a Fulbright Fellowship to the United Kingdom. So I'm now at University College London. I study at the Institute of Education and I'm pursuing a master's degree in education and and international development, conflict, emergencies, and peace. It's a long name, but essentially it is focused on education in conflict and emergency settings. So I hope to specialize in mass displacement and forced displacement context. So my current research is focused on the influx of Sudanese refugees into Egypt since the resurgence of conflict in April 2023. And I'm studying Sudanese refugee-led education initiatives. So I'm really kind of focused on how Refugees Respond in Education Emergencies. Either before or while Global North humanitarian actors set up education interventions. So a lot of my research is focused on refugee agency, how they perceive education and education during these emergency situations. And I'm looking for opportunities for collaboration between all these different stakeholders who work in these complex environments. So your topic about cultural competency is really interesting to me. And I guess when I was reflecting on it, I guess I do use a lot of these skills in my research and in my past positions.

Dr. Shay: 3:25

Yeah, without even thinking about it, you are the expert in this. And might I say, I think I want to be you when I grow up.

Lila Raouf: 3:35

I think you're just as cool as me. I mean, you have your PhD. You're like a real researcher. I'm just a baby. I'm just getting started. Okay.

Dr. Shay: 3:42

Well, I'm rooting for you, and it's been so amazing to see all that you've done since your time at the Peace Corps when we first met. So you've worked in vastly different cultural, political, and humanitarian environments. So when you hear the term cultural competency, what does that mean to you?

Lila Raouf: 3:58

Yeah, it's a good question. I think if you... have experience in the international foreign affairs arena. They throw this term around as a soft skill, which I personally don't agree with. I think it's a technical, I wouldn't even say expertise. It's just maybe a mindset, a way about you to have this cultural competency. I think if you ask general international development professionals, they're going to define it as the ability to navigate an environment that's different from you culturally. And then how you define culturally, there's so many definitions of that. And I would, for the most part, agree with that. I think the origins of the international development field makes that term a little bit complicated and makes you maybe assume that cultural competency can only be done in maybe a country far away from where you are. It kind of divides people, maybe that we're so different from each other that we have to learn these unique skills in order to be able to work together or to work in that country. I don't agree with that. There's so many instances of cultural competency being used even within the United States. So although I agree on a broader level, I think cultural competency is just the ability to meet people halfway and to understand and relate to someone, maybe empathize with someone who is a Right. How has your understanding of

Dr. Shay: 5:38

cultural competency evolved through your direct experiences?

Lila Raouf: 5:43

It's so interesting because I'm in my 30s now and I waited after working for about 10 years to go back to doing a Master's of Arts. And so now I'm actually learning a bunch of the theory that kind of guides my practice after I've been working. So I'm going to think with all this theory, I'm answering your questions because this is all fresh in my brain, but I would say when I first exited university and joined the United States Peace Corps, I had a very surface-level understanding of the international development field. I didn't understand the history of the humanitarian industry, of the aid industry. And so I think I had a very Eurocentric, Western, even white savior understanding of cultural competency and development in general. And it's important to kind of learn about the history of this industry in order to dismantle some of those beliefs that are still present in the field and in the sector. So I would say the more direct experience I got, I started maybe complicating some of those notions and in particular cultural competency. Like I mentioned after your first question, I used to think of it as like, oh, this is a soft skill that you put on a resume. It's something that has to be trained into you and taught. It has to be a skill that is transferred. And I would Yeah. trained perfectly in a person. There are a lot of people who have worked in international development for decades, and I wouldn't consider them culturally competent at all when it comes to direct experience or in-person interactions with them. So that's just my opinion. And that's just years and years of working in this field in different positions and having to interact with a quote unquote, different than me and then actually not that different than me at all. I think I'm the most different from people within the United States. Maybe I practice the most cultural patience with people within this sector from the United States. Well, that was a bit of a tangent, but it has changed a lot over the years.

Dr. Shay: 8:11

We're here for the tangent. One thing I had to learn Whereas everyone who has been a lot of places or even grew up in a sort of diverse neighborhood or a city, that doesn't translate to cultural competency.

Lila Raouf: 8:24

Yeah, absolutely. So many people spend their whole lives traveling, going on vacation and never interact with people that are different than them and have no interest really in getting on someone's level and understanding people around them. So I would agree with you. I don't think that necessarily yields cultural competency just because you've lived in a lot of countries.

Dr. Shay: 8:46

Exactly. Can you talk a little bit about how your cultural background both supports and complicates the work that you're doing in the Middle East?

Lila Raouf: 8:56

That's a good question. I would say my First big girl experience in Peace Corps Jordan is a good example. There are lots of examples, but this was a foundational, really clear example that demonstrates this. So I'm half Egyptian, I'm half Arab, and my family's Muslim, even though I don't maybe present the way that Muslims are stereotypically presented. So in Jordan, I caused a lot of confusion. People can tell from my name and my hair that I'm Arab and have Arab roots. And in some way, it didn't give me a little bit of privilege. I think people were a little bit more comfortable and relaxed around me. There was an instant connection, something we could quickly have a conversation and connect about. There were some maybe different expectations for me from other people working. So for example, I don't speak Arabic perfectly. And so I was maybe extra scrutinized for that. And And also when it came down to religion, I don't practice wearing hijab, for example, and that was a bit confusing. So, you know, at first it is challenging because you're having to explain your identity a lot to people. But that's, I guess, part of the cultural competency as well. I'm having to share a lot about myself and in order to learn about others. So, yeah, so it did. And I would say that experience taught me a lot. You know, I like... lived cultural humility where my family is from the Middle East, but that doesn't necessarily mean I know everything about all countries in the Middle East. That's silly of me to make all these assumptions. So I was really checked in my assumptions when I went to Jordan and being questioned so much and interrogated about all these different parts of my identity. It really makes you realize what you don't know you don't know. And definitely take that experience with me and just try to stay humble when I'm connecting with new people.

Dr. Shay: 10:47

Yeah, yeah. And you hit it just as you're pursuing your master's. And if you do anything higher than that, I can tell you right now, all you're going to walk away with is knowing that you don't know anything.

Lila Raouf: 10:57

Yeah, I would say Each new experience I get, and I try to have a diverse range of experiences. So I know that I am throwing myself into, you know, very different situations with each new job, but definitely my master's, I'm just realizing that I don't know anything. And I think that's a good, honestly, a good mindset to have because I'm like open to learning. Like I don't have much, I try not to have much of an ego about it.

Dr. Shay: 11:21

Absolutely, absolutely. So speaking of being open, and I'm glad you shifted into the humility aspect of this. You've been so many places and so many, not opposing cultures, but cultures that are clearly different from one another, right? So how do you balance preparation with openness to being either wrong or surprised as you go from country to country?

Lila Raouf: 11:43

So how you balance preparation, what do you mean by preparation exactly?

Dr. Shay: 11:48

So I'm assuming for you, you're going into certain places with very specific reasons for being there. You might be looking for data. And I think as a researcher, you can already speak to research bias and all these types of things that can kind of cloud your judgment. So in trying to be prepared for what you're there to do, but at the same time being open to the unexpected, how do you balance those two?

Lila Raouf: 12:11

Yeah, that's a... That's a very good question. I would say in my research, which is very fresh, I just returned from doing my data collection for my master's. I was in Egypt interviewing Sudanese refugees and organizations. So this was a good example of where I had some expectations. There were I think even going into that, I was expecting to be surprised. I was expecting maybe need to rework my question a bit. I was expecting maybe a little pushback or maybe people not to understand what I'm researching. I don't know if I have a very clear answer for it, but I do think it's a little bit of humility. Maybe I'm a little shy, so I just naturally don't think I... know everything there is to know in a situation, which I think helps with research. And then I also, with research, I mean, I'm very vocal in my program because I have, I worked in international development, but I also worked in ICD and I process development in the international development space. So I'm pretty comfortable talking about intersectionality and all these different ways to analyze and reflect on your identity, the very multiple facets of your identity. And so I think that helps me as well, because whenever I have a conversation with someone, if I feel myself having emotional reaction, or maybe I'm doubting them, or I'm not believing what they say, I always try to refer back to the intersectionality, that pinwheel of all the different facets of your identity and see maybe what's firing in me and what I need to maybe reflect on a little bit to see if that's causing any type of Girl, that is the key to everything.

Dr. Shay: 14:13

That and reflection, self-awareness and self-reflection. And I actually want to go back to something you mentioned earlier. So when you were talking about your experience, especially in Jordan, but the Middle East and you having Middle Eastern descent as well, why do you think it's critical to approach communities with curiosity rather than assumption, even when you share a background?

Lila Raouf: 14:35

Yeah, I mean... Thank you so much for having me. It's, I think, different when you have family that's constantly challenging you and your beliefs. So you're constantly having to be open to learning and analyzing and code switching, like I was talking about. So even on the individual family level, I think I've had to be more attuned to nuances and diversity, even within a really specific context, like my family unit, for example. My parents are from different religions. They're from different racial, ethnic backgrounds. I'm constantly trying to observe or just understand what's going on in differences and communication. I mean, that happens on the very basic level. So if that's happening in just my family, you can imagine in a country, in a region. There's way more diversity than you can ever imagine. I mean, honestly, I think Peace Corps was a good experience for that because even though we weren't there that long and I did serve in Kyrgyzstan after, I left that experience knowing that even though I was there for two years and I lived in a rural village in Kyrgyzstan for a very long time, I only knew maybe 2%. I knew the very surface of that society and that culture. That was just the tip of the iceberg. So I think... Even when I'm going into new work situations, I kind of have that humility about me that I'm only going to get to know a small percentage. The very surface of this is going to take much longer for me to understand the root causes and whatnot. So, yeah.

Dr. Shay: 16:27

And... We talked about this a little bit earlier too, but we can build on this. So we often think of cultural competency as something you need abroad, quote unquote, and especially with the current political climate in the U.S. and all these things going on, arguably now more than ever. What are some of the risks of lacking the skill here in the U.S.?? And I will just add that I understand stuff like this, cultural competency, humility, empathy, compassion are becoming like these little buzzwords that everybody is tired of hearing, but they are tangible things that just as human beings, you would hope people are just practicing naturally.

Lila Raouf: 17:03

Yeah, I think I do have like a strong opinion or answer to this question. I think in the context of the U.S., The lack of cultural competency is risking social cohesion and peace building. For my emergency managers out there, you can think of cultural competency as a mitigation tool. It's going to yield benefits increase social cohesion and decrease potential for risk. I mean, there's many problems going on. It just doesn't come down to being empathetic with others. Cultural competency also can be at a systemic level. And removing cultural competency from the systemic level, like we're seeing in the United States, has real consequences. Awesome. and symptoms. But yeah, I think cultural competency is a pathway forward for social cohesion. And so it should be taken seriously. I know you are focused on conflict resolution. I mean, it's kind of the base. If you walk into a situation where you have no awareness about the other party, and you have no interest in understanding the other party, then you're not going to get anywhere. Like, it's not even, nobody likes to be spoken to, you know, with someone who has like assumptions about you. So yeah. Understanding

Dr. Shay: 18:21

is the bridge to almost just about every conflict. Everybody just wants that dignity, that understanding that that's what builds common ground.

Lila Raouf: 18:29

Yeah. And I think maybe if we're going to try to like attach a metaphor to it, I remember we learned this in our pre-service training and I've stuck with this my whole life. It's like, I should not expect to go 50-50 to meet someone halfway on that bridge. I need to expect to go 80 and have that person go 20% if we want to go anywhere. So you should just prepare. Can you imagine if everybody was doing that? If everybody was going the extra mile to understand someone on the other side of the table as them? Wait,

Dr. Shay: 18:58

first of all, I don't remember that.

Lila Raouf: 19:00

I remember it. It really stuck with me because it was a lesson about humility and it was a lesson about You're coming from XYZ background. You have more capacity to go further, to lean in more, to give more empathy than the other parties. So you should. And it was, I think, a very good lesson. And I think it was considering like the circumstances we were in and like majority like white privilege cohort of volunteers going to Middle East. Like I thought that was a good way to phrase it. And so I do think cultural competency isn't necessarily meeting halfway. It's like taking the extra steps to really understand someone, maybe 80, 90% across the bridge from them. I

Dr. Shay: 19:41

love that. Okay, now I'm going to use that now that I have been refreshed. So what's one lesson you learned about human connection across cultures that you carry into every space you enter, minus the bridge you just told me about?

Lila Raouf: 19:57

Yeah, this is a big question. I think the more I interact with other cultures in different parts of the world, the more I realize that Americans are the ones that are different. And the rest of the world is kind of more on the same page with each other. Once you leave the United States, between other countries, there are less cultural differences. There's more opportunities for similarity and connection than other countries and the United States. And I have some thoughts about why that is, but no, that's not the point of this podcast. But my point is that I actually think people are way more similar in terms of their values than they are different. Sometimes those values manifest differently and then people get distracted by how it looks on the surface level. But deep down, the value, for the most part, is the same everywhere. Not the same, but quite similar. There are many, many, many points for connection around the world. So it's just whether or not you're willing to be distracted by that surface or maybe go a little bit deeper and understand what's going on there in order to try to find a way to connect with someone. And I do think, yeah, I just think Americans are kind of the weird ones. Like we're the ones who are a little weird, like to the rest of the world. And so we need to do the work Right,

Dr. Shay: 21:21

right. Doing the work. Testing

Lila Raouf: 21:23

our humility. Yeah, we need to be humble and realize that really the world does not revolve around the way we do it in the United States. There are so many ways to do and operate and be around the world. And maybe there's something to learn from other people.

Dr. Shay: 21:39

Yeah, I think that's such an important point. Because again, I think I kind of mentioned this earlier. I think there's a misconception sometimes that people from the United States have that the fact that you're from a multicultural, diverse country means that you're culturally competent. And those are two different things. And if you never step outside of your city, your town, your state, your country, it's an entire world and we're one little tiny part of it. And our culture has built us up to believe that we're the center of it. Right. Yeah. And

Lila Raouf: 22:15

I mean, in a way, that's like kind of what my current research is trying to complicate or interrogate a bit. It's like why I'm looking at these like Western centric, Eurocentric ideas about quality education and education during emergency settings and stuff. I'm wondering if there's other ways of knowing, if there's other ways of addressing education during emergency situations. And I'm looking to refugees as agents who can decide their futures rather than just beneficiaries of aid that's mainly coming from a few countries from the West. So, yeah, I would agree with you. And I'm constantly kind of like looking at different ways. post-colonial and decolonial theories to try to understand these really complicated problems around the world and see if maybe we're just not stubborn, but we've just been made to believe that there is only one right way of doing things when there are many ways of doing and knowing and learning and educating and things like that.

Dr. Shay: 23:22

That pre-exists our own country. I think we forget too, America is a very young country. So young.

Lila Raouf: 23:28

Yes, so young. This is what I'm always reading and learning. The more I read and learn, the more angrier I get and the more disillusioned I get. And then I feel more optimistic because I'm learning and getting slowly

Dr. Shay: 23:41

better at it. That's a cycle. You're going to get frustrated, then relieved, and then all over again. And then

Lila Raouf: 23:46

energized and then tired. Yeah, I'm going through all of that now.

Dr. Shay: 23:50

Yep. Well, let's keep on that note of optimism. So what gives you hope about... where we're headed, especially in international education and humanitarian work?

Lila Raouf: 24:02

I mean, it's a tough time right now for humanitarian work for a lot of different reasons. I think my research is a bit timely because the aid cuts and the shift of many countries towards more nationalist or isolationist foreign policy policies issues or perspectives is going to force us to look at alternative ways of supporting others. So there is in the policy world kind of push towards more localization. and more integration of participants into research and into solutions into these problems. And so I know I'm just scratching the surface of that by looking at refugee perspectives to education emergencies. But there is a lot of research out there around, for example, refugee teachers into the emergency response planning and things like that. There's loads of research out there. And it's just surprising that I'm just now learning about it after working in the field for 10 years. It's not surprising. It's calculated. But now that I'm learning all of this, I do think there is a way forward. It's just whether or not we can change enough minds and mobilize enough people to consider alternate routes. And it would require shifting power, some people giving up power and redistributing power and resources in order to move forward. But I do think, same within the United States, maybe you have to hit rock bottom to consider alternate solutions. And so the aid cuts in the humanitarian field because of the US government, there might be possibilities or people are willing to gamble on other grassroots, more alternate initiatives and maybe consider the complete restructures of the way humanitarian aid and international education operates. That's me being really idealistic, but I will say that The research is there and pathways are there. It's just whether or not those greater forces want to use that information moving forward. So yeah, I would say right now in terms of the cycle, I'm a little bit more optimistic because I'm like realizing there's alternate ways of education. And

Dr. Shay: 26:18

like you said, the more that you're learning this stuff, one thing that's going to blow your mind is As you mentioned, a lot of these frameworks already exist. Do you think you're coming up with something brand new? No, it's pretty much there. It's just having the political will to execute these things.

Lila Raouf: 26:32

Yeah, absolutely. It's all there. It's just whether or not people want to fund it. But it's there. If power holders are maybe desperate enough, maybe they'll consider other routes.

Dr. Shay: 26:44

So what's next for you after your program?

Lila Raouf: 26:48

Good question. I have to submit my dissertation in September. So I'm done with class now. And now I'm just in the writing process. I've done my data collection. So I'm analyzing and putting everything together. And then I'm going to decide next steps. I will go home in the fall to visit my family because I haven't been home in a while. And then from there, I am considering some like education and emergency consultancies. But the ultimate goal is I would like to pursue positions at United Nations organizations. I know the timing is tough right now, but I think it's really important for me to understand their perspective and how they work. I have a major crush on International Organization for Migration. Oh,

Dr. Shay: 27:33

yes. I visited their office in Greece when I was there. I

Lila Raouf: 27:38

might look into positions that deal with education and emergency situations in Egypt. It would be a nice way to follow up on my research.

Dr. Shay: 27:47

Well, Where can everybody else follow you and your work? Oh my gosh.

Lila Raouf: 27:52

I mean, nowhere. I'm not set up for this. I guess LinkedIn. That's really the only space where I post about my work and updates to positions and updates to my research. And definitely if anyone is interested in connecting or learning more about the program that I'm in or Fulbright as a funding opportunity, they're more than welcome to reach out to me and I'm happy to help.

Dr. Shay: 28:14

Thank you, Lila. Well, this episode challenged us to let go of assumptions, embrace complexity, and recognize that survival, whether of a project, a partnership, or a society, often depends on how well we navigate differences. So whether you're working in an international development space or walking into a diverse team meeting tomorrow, remember that cultural competency is not a bonus skill. It's a leadership requirement. And like any meaningful work, it starts with them. This conversation also pairs powerfully with our episode on cultural humility with Dr. Joel Perez. While today we explored how competency shows up across global institutional systems, Joel reminded us that humility isn't weakness. Again, it's a leadership strength. Together, both conversations ask us to examine not just how we show up across cultures, but how willing we are to stay curious, admit what we don't know, and choose connection over control. As always, thank you for joining me today in the Resolution Room. I'm grateful you're here doing this work alongside me. If this episode spoke to you, I'd love for you to please share. And until next time, keep building in the quiet because that's what will carry you forward.