EP 26 — Maria & Yanina, Lessons on Identity, Home & Belonging

Transcript

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Welcome to the Almost Local podcast. I'm Maria, your host, and today I'm podcasting from Auckland New Zealand. Today, on the 1st of April, you can really feel the shift into autumn. The leaves are starting to fall. There is a cooler breeze in the air and everything feels like it's slowing down just a little. Wherever you are in the world, welcome to Almost Local, a space for real honest conversations about what it means to build a life abroad. I. I'm really excited today because I'm here with, Jenny. Jenny is from Argentina and we are in New Zealand in Oakland. So I'm happy to be, hosting her in the podcast today and share her journey, living abroad. Thank you. so to start, let's, let's begin with three words, that you would describe your home country, in this case, Argentina. which words would be, it could be, well, I have many coming to my head, but, one is family, so where my family is most of my family. the second is probably. Mate, because I'm completely addicted to it, or I totally drink a lot of it. And the third is. Uh, well, I would say, I don't know if this is the most important, but I would say messy because everybody knows him and it's kind of like our ambassador at the moment. Absolutely. yeah. Well, I'm also from Argentina, and I think I would use those words as well. So family, because your family's there. Yeah, it's in Argentina. Mata is the typical Argentinian drink, drink, and messy. Well, who I don't think he needs. An introduction, that's cool. So Jenny, thank you for being here and being open to share your, your experience of life abroad. tell us a bit about, how long have you been, navigating life abroad? I left Argentina in 2003, so I was at that moment, 26 years old. And what I was looking for, actually, I left for many reasons. I always wanted to go and study abroad. I originally trained as an engineer, as an industrial engineer. And, I always wanted to study abroad, like do an experience, and I was looking into states like United States. And, the second reason is like a lot of women, or including men, go through this, I met a person that was also, From the United States. And, we had a long distance relationship for like about three years. And that kind of accelerated the process because it might have been that if he wasn't in the picture, he wouldn't have been in the picture. Yeah. I wouldn't have left so early, maybe. but he was one of the reasons why I, I actually accelerated my application to go and study abroad. Mm-hmm. And I did an MBA in Boston. It was a very intimidating process to go through. Can imagine. But it imagine it was really, really good. And I had, an amazing experience studying abroad, and that's where I met my husband. I met Danny, he was one of my classmates. Mm-hmm. So, mm, I came to New Zealand just to, to travel with him because we were doing long distance and this was one of the places where we actually met up and we traveled around and I loved this place. I always thought, oh, maybe at some point I would love to come and live here. And, well, that was kind of like in the distant future, but Yeah. Yeah. It is not distance future anymore because. It ended up happening. Yeah. Yeah. And this is my home now. But yeah, so I had a really good experience as a student in America, and then I kept, I kept working there. I, I stayed working for a while. and what I've mostly learned in the US was professional. I had a really good experience professionally. It gave me a really good school. So after studying, you stayed and worked. Yeah. I moved to New York. I worked in a cosmetics industry. So for Estee Lauder as a young professional, and it was a fascinating experience. But it was also a really good school, because you really have to excel in what you do To be at that high standard level of professionalism. So it was mostly that. But I also saw the other side of it, which it wasn't aligned with who I thought I was. at some point I told my husband two years into the work, he was also working crazy hours. At that moment, he wasn't my husband, we were living together. And I said to him, I'm starting to feel that the ultimate goal in life is to get the next Gucci back. I was becoming someone that I wasn't because the culture itself, it was like the devil's were worst Prada, you know, like, and I, I had beautiful mentors in, in that. In that work, but at the same time, I was becoming someone that I wasn't acquainted with. Yeah, you didn't recognize. So we made a decision or we may even have to make a move. And we both had been here in New Zealand and we loved it. So we said, well, just let's try it. We looked into Europe. at that moment we didn't have kids, It changes when you have the kids. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And yeah, it's very, it's, it's a little bit different. So we looked kind of, we span the globe and we say, okay, let's try these places. Okay. But we ended up deciding to come to New Zealand and make, and we say, oh, let's just try for a couple of years. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. And that's why we ended up here. Okay. And then we moved to Australia for also to try something a little bit different. And then we moved back. we really liked our experience in Australia, but we always knew we wanted to come back here. Yeah. And, and when you moved, you came to New Zealand first, you were also, in Auckland, right? Yes. We always moved in Auckland. It was Melbourne in Australia, and then we moved to Melbourne. And here's where we also had our son, so We were living here for a couple of years. We were both working. and then I got pregnant and Noah was born here. And then we moved when he was 11 months over there. So I was a very, very early stages of my motherhood when we moved to. Melbourne. Yeah. So I think you asked me at some point something about us, like How did every place shape you? Yeah. And you were in different, totally different stages, which is great for, those who are listening. you were young looking for, I don't know, some kind of adventure, adventure, independence or whatever. Then it was, you started grow professionally and then with your actual husband, you, you were more like looking for a lifestyle's, correct. It was more personal decision connected to lifestyle. Yes. And then, well, I suppose again, Australia was. Related to a mix of lifestyle and adventure. Yeah. so Australia was the kind of thing that I saw myself living here long term, but I also couldn't yet picture myself not being anywhere else or not doing a different experience before we really settled in a place and lived all our lives. originally I ended up living there for five years, but originally we were going to try a Asian country as a, as a, just learning different cultures. But, yeah, we ended up going to Australia thinking that it was gonna be a two year stint. And it ended up being a five, one part of it because, we learned there that my son had special needs. I also got really sick while I was in Australia, so the place shaped me. I always think that Australia was a little bit like a washing machine. You know, like, it gave me so many challenges, but it also, it helped me, with a lot, with my personal growth washing machine in the sense that it kind of like reset yourself some sort of thing. a lot of things that were weren't serving me anymore. Where I had to let go. Like for example, my Taipei overachiever, thing, you know, like I had always was very career driven and at that moment I realized that my identity was very tied up with my career. And when it's almost like life, kind of like we have this saying in Argentina that like. You were on top of a pony, right. Like, and life kind of like knocked me out of the pony. You know? Absolutely. Like you were up there thinking that you were like, I dunno, that's where you were going and all your dreams and the career. It was all about the career and that was my identity. And then I had Noah and I got sick. Mm-hmm. And then you moved to Australia and Noah was like, he was 10 months. So I was on my own with Danny, working very long hours. On, like not having anyone that I knew. And, also I got really sick. I had, I was diagnosed with chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia, which was a very, very tough thing to be as a, to have as a, as a young mom with a toddler. That also then we, we discovered that he had special needs. He had, he was diagnosed with autism and cerebral palsy, but that didn't come until later. So many challenges on, on the way. And, I feel like that place shaped me, my perspective in life. It just made me see it, it was a, it was a very strong letting go of identity and realizing that I wasn't my career. The mother. I wasn't, I was all of it, but it wasn't really something that defined me. Yeah. and, and definitely not my worth. It's just like my career wasn't my worth. I, I feel like this society, up until that moment, my worth was very tied to my career. Mm-hmm. Like whatever type of job I had. Yeah. Or was what defined me and what gave me my worth. Yeah. And so I learned the hard way to kind of let go of that. And it's still, it's still a work in progress, but, yeah, it changed completely my perspective on that, on that front. So yeah, it was a little bit of a washing machine. How was your experience in Australia? and a massive, a, how do you say, when something kind of reverts. revert of values reversal. The things that I was, of ideas, of what I was holding myself, what I was measuring myself against, in success in life and all that, that's where the whole thing started. That whole transformation. Yeah. And at the same time, that's where I, I discovered, or I had discovered meditation in my twenties. Mm-hmm. But there it was, I, that's where I sought it a lot more because of, it was a lifeline. So meditation for me was one of the things that helped me go through this process. In a much more, awakened way. Like, or healthy way. That's where it all started. I did mindfulness first and then I learned. a similar technique to what I teach now. So it's funny because, we, the question is how did the, the different places shape you? I wonder if, if you had moved to Japan instead, or I don't know, Bali, whatever, if, if, if you had been through the same process. So sometimes we, we attach things to places, like it was the place, but sometimes it's, it's not really about the place. Or maybe it was, I don't know. Do you feel like there was something, because here in New Zealand you might have like that relaxed lifestyle, the, the, the, laid back and we sometimes attach our. Change in in mindset to that. I wonder if Australia was that in a way or if it has a connection with you discovering about Noah having special, needs and yourself and, and you got sick and everything. Or both. Who knows? I think it was, it's, it's the same question whether things are nurture or nature, right? Like I think it's both. I think it's the energy of the place because it's not only the only, I'm not the only person. I had this conversation with a few people. Mm. I think places have a certain type of energy that it actually, that it doesn't mean that it does the same to everybody, but for me, Australia was that kind of acceleration of awakening Wasn't serving me anymore. I find that the energy of the place was like an accelerator, you know, like, and for me, New Zealand has always been kind of the opposite. It is like, I always find very, like coming back home to a place of more simple lifestyle and more naturally orientated, like the place in which I enjoy nature and I get that kind of relaxed lifestyle, but it's not always like human connected or like, it can be the society. for me also, it has to do with the energy or the place. And when I go to the states or when I go to Argentina. I also notice there's a different, almost like a different vibe or a different baseline in baseline energy, regardless of what in the surface is going on. Mm-hmm. There's always like a baseline energy that I, I, I perceive, you know, like, so it could be, I think it was both the experiences that I, that were transformative, during the time that I was in Australia in the same, the time that I was in the us. but at the same time, there is a baseline, I think mm-hmm. not everyone connects with the places Exactly. Not everyone is shaped to connect. Yeah. And sometimes we're just like still worried about other things, so we don't have enough time to have that awareness of what the places is actually bringing to you or offering. Right. That's correct. yeah. And it's always something that it will, for me at least, it was always in every part, in every experience that I had, it was something that yes, it could actually, shake me. You know? Like it was, it was difficult, but at the same time, it was all designed for me to Yeah. Evolve. Do you feel like it was necessary. I mean, unconsciously, of course, but like it was a step that brought you to the next step. Yeah. I don't know if it was necessary, but it was definitely, I'm very grateful for. Mm. I I think that at the level that I was operating at mm-hmm. It was definitely necessary. Do you ever feel like, a bit of, nostalgic like, oh my time in the us, Eventually I'd love to come back there to live again or with Australia, or do you have that or, no, this is like, it was a part of my life, a stage or a moment and that's it. I feel like that, that it was a part of my life, which I don't necessarily wanna go back to live the same way, or, but I do miss the people. The people is always that I miss most. Mm. yeah, I did leave. We, I mean, Danny's family is still there and we have really lovely friends in, in the States and also in Australia. I made like the type of sisterhood with five of my friends that I, I always wanted and, and it's super strong. And one of my friends is coming now to visit the next a couple of weeks. It's, it's, it was such, such a strong bond that we. Keep nurturing. So that's what I miss. The people. Yeah. Anything else? It's inconsequential. Mm-hmm. Like I couldn't, I could substitute Yeah. Substitute, and of course, you miss some of the customs, like in Argentina, I miss the food, but I'm glad I don't live there because otherwise I couldn't control myself. We agree. But mostly I miss my family and my, yeah. My, my friends, the people that knew me from the state. The early stages in my life. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, I don't wanna go back to live either to, into the states. Definitely not in the state, in the shape that it is on the situation that is at the moment. I never wanted, I didn't align with the, with the, mm-hmm. General culture Yeah. There. And in Australia, I always knew I wanted to come back here. I'm glad that in, in a way, we were forced to mm-hmm. To move because, the, because the diagnosis of Noah, we wanted to apply for a residency there, but we weren't Kiwis at that moment. Mm-hmm. We, we became Kiwis, after we came back. And at some point we wanted to stay because we had a really good team of doctors for him and we wanted mm-hmm. But they told us that because of his diagnosis of cerebral palsy and autism, he, they will never, be, they will never give it to us. Because it would imply that they would, that he would receive funding. And in a way it's not that we didn't have a choice, we decided, okay, let's go back to New Zealand. We always wanted to come back anyways. It was just because of fear of losing the medical team and all the support that we had. And we stayed for that long, but we always wanted to come back. So that's the reason you stayed longer than we expected. Yeah. It was because of the support that we had there for Noah was a fantastic team. So talking about challenges living abroad, for those who are listening and might relate to your experience, but also I think of a lot of people who are considering moving abroad. But what, were the biggest challenges for you in this journey? Like, for me, the biggest challenges were never the practical ones. The practical ones. I always managed to find the support for it. things like finding a good doctor or, finding a house, whatever. Yeah. You know, like all the more practical, finding a job, even in the places that it wasn't easy to find a job. But, what's harder is the, the, the more the subtle support, the, the un intangible, the less practical, the more emotional contention. getting to know people that you can relate to. one for me, the finding again, my tribe, you know, like, or finding it, finding and generating the community, the tribe that you, we, I felt that finally. Okay. I feel like I'm home again. Yeah. It's never gonna be like Argentina, but it may be like, it, it's always like. I'm finding home mm-hmm. That community. Mm-hmm. It takes time. It takes a lot of trial and error. It takes a lot of like meeting people and also like, it would have happened in Argentina, like meeting people, feeling that you had a connection, but then maybe not, and going through the grieving process that it wasn't the case or also including the cultural shocks, like finding, even at work, the different cultures differences that are in the subtle, you know, like the things that you think that they could be misinterpreted or it's all the tangible stuff. But you learn the hard way. Yeah. that wasn't acceptable, but it is really acceptable. Acceptable in Argentina or in my home country. But here it's not. Yeah. And nobody tells you all these things, you know, the subtle things Yeah. Like the jokes, and even the connection that you can form, the bonds you can form at work versus in a social environment. The, those things are things that you learn the hard way and it's a lot easier to do if you have, a traveling companion. You know, like, doesn't mean that it's gonna be your partner because your partner is gonna be in a different environment dealing his own dealing. But, it's a lot easier to, if you find some, someone local or that have been living abroad. For a while there, I always found that people that lived abroad were the most open to make new connections. So even if I felt that I was isolating myself a bit because, I wasn't necessarily getting together with local people. it was easier to make connection with people that had been living abroad or were immigrants as well mm-hmm. And the other part that I found easier is like the locals that had lived abroad were the ones that were more open as well. I agree.'cause they had gone through a similar experience and knew what that was. So those for me were the most significant challenges. Yeah. The, the, there were never the practical things. Yeah. Once you, you tick the boxes of the prac practical things. Yeah. which they generate a lot of stress. Yeah, a lot of stress. A lot of course. Because it, it's, it takes a lot for, it depends, it depends, right. Some people just quickly, they have their visa or work permits or a job or whatever, and it can be really stressing. but then there is, like you said, the intangible, like the, what we don't see. Yeah. and we might not even see that it's coming Right. Because we're not expecting as motherhood. Yeah. Something is like, suddenly it's like, oh, wow, I was not expecting this. Like the, to be that challenging. Yeah. So, and for me it's very important to get into it. Like knowing this stuff, you know, like it's, it's a lot more convenient to know Oh, okay. Not to have, hold yourself to super high expectations that it's all gonna be perfect or mm-hmm. It's gonna be easy or, yeah. it's good to say, okay, it's gonna be a process. And for me, one of the things that I learned is that it wasn't about the idea or the expectation that I had, Into the process is actually the outcome. The process Is what it teaches you. it's what you wanna go through. that's what's gonna make you be, more resilient. Having a home, like feeling a home, it's not like your ideal, what it's supposed to be. It's going through the process. The journey that takes you, you don't know where No.'cause there is no destination. Right? Exactly. There is no, yeah. But it's hard not to have that expectation, right? Sometimes. Oh, I think it's, it's even more difficult because when you are going towards a goal, there is something you're going, you, you are after something. Yeah. But one that it's not there is just, it feels a bit uncertain, right? Yeah.'cause what are you doing? What, why are we here? Or, yeah. So I guess once you tick all the boxes of the practical things, which is for me personally, it's where we are at this moment because we lived in New Zealand. We return, but now we are just here. For our, it's, it's been our decision to come here, but a lot of things have already been, are are done, right? Yeah. The, the residency, the house, the job, school, the job, et cetera, et cetera. So then it's like, okay, now what, or what's next? Mm-hmm. Well, now it's time to enjoy the journey. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Why is long difficult to enjoy? You, you are so with, why do you think sometimes it's, it's hard for to enjoy? I think it's, so my perspective on it, my perspective on it, I think living abroad kind of puts a highlight on this. I think that this is a, a thing that we as humans go through and one, it's one of the things that we need to, we're here to learn. The whole thing about being in the present moment and be believable there instead of like being in the future and looking at the things that we don't have that we want. but being present being, I think that the only reason why we don't enjoy the journey is because more focused with the destination and what we haven't achieved yet, A lot of us also live in the past a lot more and, and we're missing what's happening now. We're missing the, yeah. The, the point of being alive, it's a very cliched thing, the whole thing about the small things in life. Yeah. But the truth is that that's real. Life is full of small things. Most of our lives is full of our small things. It's about. Making our lifestyle, making, having, an education, all the like washing dishes, you know, like this kind of stuff. Yeah. those little things are what makes a day your day, a lot of them. Your day. Yeah, a lot of it. And even just ha like having a coffee. Sometimes we're having a coffee and we don't even, we are not present with that. That's the whole point of our mindfulness, which I don't teach and I practice, is the whole premise of being in the present moment, of having your attention with what there is. And that includes also the things that are not as comfortable, like, the fears or emotions that are painful. if we are able to be with them instead of like trying to resist or like, ugh, avoid, avoid them. It's a lot more of a, enjoyable journey because once you go through it and metabolize it, then you can enjoy more of what's there as well. I think that it has to do with something that it's, we think it's human nature, but I think it's what we are here to learn, a lot of us to move from our conditioning of, of wanting what there's not, what what is not there. Yeah. And there's nothing wrong about desire and wanting something, but a lot of the times we have a very fixated idea of what that is and we get very disappointed where we, we cannot get it, or, or life takes us in another path. Yeah. And we, we can't remain present in the journey because we are mourning speaking of our mourning. Mm-hmm. One of the challenges of living abroad is mourning or like the grieving process that happens when you go back home or like you're home country and then you come back. Mm-hmm. The constant grieving maybe. Yeah. It is little bit the constant saying goodbye. Yeah. I guess it is, but it's also like, it's a lot more exaggerated or like a lot more in your face when you go and you experience your, like, your home culture, the family, the bubble that there is, and then come back home and question, like, I, I personally go through the process every time I go to Argentina. I stay there like two, three weeks, a month, whatever, and I come back. It's always a broken heart. I leave part of my heart there. Which is absolutely fine. It's part of the process. and then I question all the decisions that I made, like why am I here? And I go through grieving process. And when I have to process a lot of emotions and a lot of pain of that kind of like, again, uprooting myself from that. I mean, I put a lot of roots here, but I still feel that a lot of my heart is there. Mm-hmm. And again, it has to do with the people, with the culture. Yeah. and then after three or four weeks, it lasts about three or four weeks in which I am present with my everything that happens to me. Yeah. And after that, I can again find the reasons why I am here, Are a lot, and this is the reason why I'm still living here, but it's not until I go through that grieving process again. Mm-hmm. So every time I go mm-hmm. I know this is coming and I, I'm fine with it, but I know I need to be with whatever's happening and what the, the emotions that are happening to me. Also mixed with a bit of unconsciously, maybe a bit of guilt. Like, I made this decision and you question the decision. Is there some sort of I hear you a little bit like, and I did have this in the past. I don't feel that anymore. Okay. But I, I did have it. Mm-hmm. yeah, it was connected with, because it's, it's a personal decision, right? You decide to live your home country and your family and friends. And I and you deep inside, you know, well this is because we, we could be here, I could be here, but I decided to make home a different place. Mm-hmm. I, it's my decision to see my family every year, once a year or every two years or so. There, there is a, a small, tiny part of us who, who feels a bit guilty. Oh, did I do the right, did I make the right decision? Did I, did I leave them behind? Yeah. Sounds something like that. Like, well, I'm sorry. Maybe you were not feeling like that and now I'm putting this into your mix. Zero, because I did, I was there in, in a stage, I, I left 23 years ago when, yeah. For the first, I would say 10 years of living abroad. I definitely felt that quite strongly. And that guilt made me reassess many times whether I needed to go back or not. In the early stages, it was a lot of guilt, but also, it's tough to start abroad. So I questioned myself, many of these decisions of leaving my parents or leaving my family behind. Did I try hard enough to actually make a living there? and I mean, I had very strong reasons why I left all coming from a very young Perspective. the reasons why I left are very different for the reasons than the reasons why I'm still here. Mm-hmm. yes, there is a difference. Yeah. I mean, obviously things change. The guilt came from that. Did I try hard enough to stay? Did I, did I kind of quit my country? Was I too fast at like, just kind of running away? Did I run away? Because that's the other thing, did I run away from my country? And a little bit like 10 years ago, I went through a process of letting go of the, the real reasons why I left. There was a lot of resentment that my country, in my country, I couldn't do what I wanted to do. And it had to do a lot with Korea and also with a little bit of fear because I went through, at that moment the country was quite unsafe. And I went through a quite scary episode of feeling threatened. Someone put a pistol in my head. And rob me, you know, and my knees was right there. She was a baby and they threatened to kill her and all this stuff. So I processed all of that and I let go of, yeah, well that's all those emotions. That's quite of a, yeah, it's was very traumatic, traumatic moment. But then I had the opportunity to actually go into the trauma and work in it, go inside, work in it, work in it, and letting go of all those big emotions that were still there. And all the love for my country kind of came up. All that was being masked by those episodes and disappointment and safety. And I was like, wow. There was still all this love there that I, I connected to everything that I found amazing about Argentina. And there also the guilt came back because I'm like, oh, I didn't see this, but now. I still want to live here despite of the fact that I reconnected with all the positivity that mm-hmm. I found there. so guilt came in different stages. Yeah. At the moment, it's not a thing that it's present in my experience. Mm-hmm. I think that when my parents are a little bit older mm-hmm. I don't know if it's gonna come in the form of guilt, but I do have, I do feel a strong responsibility to make sure they're okay. It came in different stages in my life at the moment. It's not a big player on how I feel. I think that all these layers of things that we go through and all the questioning and the, all these things that we are talking about, these are also challenges. That we have living abroad, that you, you are not questioning your life if you're living in your home country. These are not things, you are in your place. You're not, it's a given, right? Everything is the way it's supposed to be, but the minute you step out of your country and you decide to move somewhere else, you have all these extra layers with you, like questioning and, and, I think that's a challenge itself. I, I actually see it a little bit, different. When I go to Argentina, I find plenty of people that are questioning why the heck they're still there. You know, not in terms of family, but in the, in terms of the situation. And if they could have better opportunities abroad and. Definitely a lot of people that I know left. I think that it always comes back to what it is, the priority and the stage that you're at. Mm-hmm. Yeah. it always comes back to that point. Yeah. I think it's something that if you are, if you live a conscious life, that you actually are conscious of what's going on within you and you conscious meaning also aware mm-hmm. I think it's a process that it's always there. Like it's the equivalent of always being aware of what's going on or, or maybe evaluating when the green grass is, it's on the next. Side on the other side, or it's on this side, you know, like it's always a constant evaluation. It is. Depending on the priorities. Yeah. It's not that the green, the grass is greener on the other side. It just depends on what are my priorities in life at the moment. At this exact moment. Yeah. And it might change. In my case, I think that at some point my parents are gonna become again, a priority. So what you're saying, maybe it's like, if we were talking about advice, not having all the answers, it's okay. Yes. I would say something like that. And sessions are also temporary. Like people Yeah. Don't have, you don't have to have all the answers. Yeah. You don't have, and if you are very, if we are always very, Yeah. Uncertain or making decision. We tend to think that decisions are forever. Like you're marrying. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Marriages are not forever either, but but it's almost like have is forever to marry to a decision. There might be a price or a cost to changing your path or your, your But what's the cost of not exactly changing? So I, we tend to think that everything is like, yeah. It has a determinism to it in, it really isn't. It might have a, yeah, a high cost or a more higher price that you wanna pay for, but not necessarily, you have to be marrying with a decision that you think is the best thing now. It may be not in a year. So that, that gives a bit of relief, right? It takes the pressure out of the whole thing, right? I think it's good to have a deadline. So if you are on the verge of trying a new adventure, It helped me, like with New Zealand, it definitely helped us. It was like two years. We give it two years and we see how it goes. Yeah, I agree with you. Yeah. That's when we moved to Europe, it was three years, but I mean, why, why give it a deadline? We set, we, we, that's the deadline we set for ourselves. There was some sort of connection with the job, but I agree. It's good to have a deadline. Framework, timeline, framework. but doesn't mean you need to stay for three years if you're suffering. Right. Exactly. Or if you are loving it, maybe you don't have to cut it short. You don't have to cut it short. Exactly. But what I'm saying is, like, for me, it helps because it gives you the opportunity to give it my best shot and give it a try. Like instead of like, yeah, getting here, finding all the negative stuff and not, and thinking that this is gonna be like that. Oh, I can't tell you. If it is a nightmare, then yeah, you can grab your stuff again and move on. Yeah. But I always say that it, everywhere I went, it took me a year and a half at least to feel like I was at home. Okay. Yeah. I like that you're saying this. Yeah. It gives, for people who are just starting. And I know because I went through that, when we went to Europe and although I knew we needed time, I wasn't patient enough to say, this is a process. You need time. You need a year, a year and a half. So for you it was a year and a half. That's your a year and a half. it has to do with making a strong, it always has to do with people. Like for me, the community is what gives you the sense of belonging that you're home. Yeah. So it gives you enough time to make significant connections, even if it's not, they're not gonna be like your best friends that knew you from all your life, but it gives you that strong connection with some people. And then the belonging is always, for me, it has to do with people. Yeah. So those practical things would be, that's where your focus is in the first year and a half, and then you start having time to, to work into the not tangible things, the friendships and That's right. Well, the things that are going to make you feel like at home make you feel like at home. the practical things for me, it's like usually was a no more than six months. And six months, kind of like you find pretty much you, you find kind of everything that you need. Maybe if you're going through a residency process or anything, it might take longer, but in the meantime you can work on the connections. And that's what takes longer. we tend to take for granted. How long it takes to make a deeply meaningful connection with someone. and feel at home with other people that are not just your immediate family and that network. that community. A lot of people find church like, or like almost, that's why I think almost local makes. Plays a great role mm-hmm. In that transition, because it accelerates that for me, it took a year and a half without anything like that. Mm-hmm. or if you go to study somewhere Yeah. Not always. Yeah. Yeah. But if you go into a university, you make instant connection. Not at this stage. Maybe because it's harder. Yeah. yeah. There, there's, it needs to be intentional anyway. You have to have the intention because I, when we went to the Netherlands, I was at a Dutch group. Yeah. So I was meeting weekly with the same women and we were studying Dutch and it was great. And then that group, was the start of friendship and, going out for dinner, even trips, et cetera. But it had to be intentional. Like it was, it was not something happening because. We meet every Thursday at 9:00 AM we had to have the intention to, okay, let's now let's do coffee now let's do this. And It's so important. Community is, we underestimate it. I think sometimes we, we do make that because we can still survive anyway. Yeah, it's true. Yeah. But, you have a much richer Yeah. Experience when you have, you feel like you're part of the community. And that's why I think the role of almost local, and I mean one of my biggest community makers that I'm not a big community maker. I don't have necessarily the skills or I don't feel that is my, my thing, Andrea. Mm-hmm. Andrea is a massive community maker. Naturally she is naturally, inclined to, yeah. But she, she does that. Yeah. And naturally she does not even forcing it. And what I was gonna say is that 70% of the people that I know, I probably knew, know them because of her. Yeah. So it's, it's also a matter of it's intention, but at the same time it's, it's open up your heart Yeah. And, and finding the groups or like people, like you guys, like Andrea and you that are community makers. And the consistency of showing up. And, I'm, I've never, I've never seen myself as a community maker or anything of the sort. And, I mean, I, I enjoy meeting people, making friends, but I'm not the one like Andrea who stands up in the crowd. And would I, I don't see myself as that, but I guess after. Moving so much from an early age. Yeah. I, I do recognize how healthier it is to be surrounded by people that you can really connect. I mean, you, you can, be surrounded by people at work, but it's not, it's, I'm not talking about it. That's not the right, just talking about people who you can really, understand each other or what you're going through. Yeah. And that community maybe work, but it's not the only place that you, you can find that it could be that at work there's a beautiful community happening, but it, it might not always be the case. Might not. Yeah. Yeah. it, it's actually very fortunate mm-hmm. If that happens, because that means that you You actually share a lot of time. Very lucky. Yeah. and. Yeah. Even if you don't consider yourself a community maker, you are facilitating that process with your project. Mm-hmm. I think it's fa fabulous and it's something that was missing. Mm. In at least it's missing in many places. Yeah. Well, the church used to be, church played a massive role in that. Mm-hmm. But not everybody wants to be a church. No, absolutely not. so there has to be more secular spaces like this. Yeah. Like what you're creating. Yeah. I'm very grateful about that. Even if I've been here for a long time, I still see the value of mm-hmm. Showing up for this place mm-hmm. On this, yeah. Spaces. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That you generate. Well, thank you Jenny. I'm happy that you, you see the huge of what you're massive with almost local. I, like I said, I lived in the Netherlands for three years and half of the people who live in where, we were at in The Hague, it's half of the people. They are experts and. I didn't find any community that had, maybe there is one and I never found it, but, you do have a lot of network groups or, specific groups, like if you wanna learn that or, professionally or for business or whatever. but Xbox are, it's not the same. It's a, it's a interesting phenomenon because it gives, it's such a transitional, like most people that are x expertss are there transitionally. Yeah. So some people don't see the value in investing in the community and creating a community if you're gonna be there for a couple years. Yeah. But it's, we know, it's proven that it can really affect your health, mental health. Mental health. Absolutely. So that's why I, I say. Don't underestimate it because you can find yourself at home all day talk, talking to your toast maker. Yeah. But I mean, for one day, for today's, but eventually it's not gonna be, it's gonna drive you, it's gonna drive you mad, mad and experience a different country. It's not. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, for me, that was what moving to Australia with a small baby was I was completely isolated. Yeah. Well that may, that's, that adds a different layer. Yeah. And when we came to New Zealand, our son Antonio was just three. Oh, he was the second and I was, I don't know, 30 something. So I was at the moment where, okay. Eventually, are we gonna have another kid? It's, it's, this is the moment. Yeah. And I thought of that. Noah was my first one. I was the first one also of my friends to have a kid. And I was completely naive of what being plugged from a place in which I felt like I belong with a small baby and being put in a place that I didn't know anybody with a small baby. A, a husband that had to pay his dues in a new job, would make not knowing anything. I mean, the, again, the practicalities are massive stressors. the feeling isolated completely and sick and like dealing with a, a constant demand of having a small baby. Yeah. And all the things that motherhood also brings, which is like, yeah, exactly. I'm not a good mom. I'm not Well, yeah. That's why I was saying I, I, I didn't have the courage to go for the third. Maybe if we had stayed in Argentina, I don't know. I will never know that support. Yeah. Maybe, it was less scary. But if you are adapting to a new country, understanding the culture, it's, it's, it's a massive change in your life. So it's a massive, you don't wanna add something el else to that. but I mean, that was what, what I thought my decision. But I, a lot of women have their kids abroad, like Yeah. And I haven't met anyone that didn't say it was, A very challenging thing. Yeah. Because you don't like, it's like being without family in a pla in a stage in life in which you need a lot of that support, that content contention like that. doesn't mean that family is, is always gonna help you, but it it is the being isolated part. Especially when you don't have an established community. When you have your established community. They become your family. I mean, I'm full of substitute families in New Zealand. But even going to the doctor, like if you, normally you go to the doctor, you understand each other because you are from the same culture and you know That's right. You know how to talk, you know the things you're not. Thinking, oh, should I say this? Is this right? Is this wrong? You know, like You, you can be just, you can be a lot more comfortable.'cause you, it's on, it's the known exactly what, what you're used to. it's a different, not even like here, I'm talking about countries that I spoke the language. Like going into the practicalities are double Yeah. The challenge, the stress. And the stress. Yes. Because you, you, you, you need to do everything in a different language. And it's, especially in a language that is so opposite to. Your language, like if it had been difficult Italian Yeah, it would've been fine. That's right. Suddenly it was like, please stop sending these letters from the government because I don't have time to read all of this because I need to translate and the vaccines and this and that. And it was like a lot. But yeah, so that's a massive added challenge. I didn't have that experience. But you do have a lot of people who, not, not you, because you already were almost bilingual in English when you went to us. That's right. So, but a lot of people come here with no English. Mm-hmm. That's a huge undertake. That is. And a huge undertake that makes it, and I, I saw a lot of people that didn't want to learn, and that may be okay, but it's also very limited. So limiting, yeah, that's what I try to say limiting because, it's always, yeah, what, what, what I always ask myself is that, is the emotion or the fear or the discomfort or wanting to learn something new, bigger than the opportunity that that will open up for. yeah, I did, when I went to the US I did know English, but I went to study in the first six months where, oh my God, this was at Ivy League, top-notch university. I was like, all my imposter syndromes were like playing up all the time. Like, what are you doing here? You're not belonging, you don't belong here. You don't even speak the language. Like, oh, it was painful as, but it was almost like I had to go through that pressure cooker in order to come out on the other side Yeah. And say, okay, I can do this. Yeah. But it was a pressure cooker. All my, everything came up. Yeah. Or my beliefs or my limitations or all that. Yeah. Until your brain kind of, it takes a lot of time. Yeah. And I could have quit and say Enough. Yeah. It's not for me. Yeah. But I felt like I had invested a lot. Maybe for someone that hasn't invested so much, they don't feel that it's, the emotion is still the, the, the thing that holds them back is still more powerful than the opportunities that it Yeah. I was wondering if, if New Zealand is your final destination and we are get finalizing this, this chat today, but we can always continue some other day. I think so. I see myself living here, long term, yes. I don't foresee having to go through this process back and forth, back and forth. It's always like a, for me, it's a day by day, election. Yeah. It's, I'm choosing to be here. Yeah. And I, and sometimes it's day by day, you know, like sometimes it's like months that I don't even question it. the things that can change that, obviously we don't have the crystal ball, so I don't know what can happen to this country, or if something massively wrong or goes, something goes massively wrong. But I mean, things that I can foresee are my parents. Mm-hmm. But, I, when I think about my parents, the thing that I think is a temporary, if I go back to live in Argentina, it will be. Yeah. Temporary, like maybe a couple of years. And then he always wanted to go and live in a, a, speaking, Spanish speaking country. Mm. So it could be another adventure. Yeah. Yeah. And I think, I suspect it'll be easier because I have a community already there. Yeah. But the challenges of living in a, in a South American country are also quite overwhelming, are also real, are also very real and Yeah. Are overwhelming to even think about them. I don't know what my son would choose. That will depend also where he wants to go. If he wants to go back to Argentina, if he wants to go and live in the States. He has a lot of, options that I didn't have growing up in Argentina. he's the citizen of six countries, so he can actually, he's got a lot of options. but who knows, maybe he wants to live somewhere else. Not even one of the countries. Like, he kind of like inherited. So now it depends on that as well. Because it's the same for me. So I'm always open to the possibility, not that it, that I'm worried. I'm just open to that something may change, that I may not feel like this is gonna be the long term. who knows? But I definitely, at the moment I see it as my. Forever home. This is your home. Yes. Yeah, yeah. Forever in this lifetime. Yeah. And today, yes, exactly. In the present moment and today. Yeah. And Jenny, it is been a pleasure. Yes. Thank you. Talking and learning from your journey. A lot of things I didn't know, so I learned today. Oh, thanks for sharing, for being open to be in the Almost local podcast. we hope we've in inspired some adventurous souls over there. Somewhere in the globe. but thanks again and well, we'll probably do another chat and talk about other topics, so that sounds great. So thank you so much. And I just wanted to thank you again for opening the space for, offering this kind of, view or perspective to people that want to. Take the plunge and go, or have taken the plunge and are going through challenges or even just as a support. I think it's very important and very admirable that you actually are generating those spaces and facilitating the journey for people that are going through Well, thank you. The experience. Thank you. Thank you, thank you. You and the space is, is Well, I'm, I'm the one that opened the space, but it, it's here because of you. So otherwise I wouldn't have the voices, uh, yeah. To, to share. So thank you. Well, thank you for giving me the opportunity. And now, as always, I'm off to my morning coffee, but let's keep the conversation going wherever you are in the world, you can join the almost local circle through the website or on Instagram until the next episode. See you soon.