Training That Sticks: Compliance, Culture, and Career Growth with Jason Berkowitz Artwork

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The Leadership Table brings together hospitality leaders and changemakers to share real-world strategies for growth, leadership, and communication. Hosted by Jason E. Brooks, each episode delivers insights you can use right away.

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The Leadership Table

Training That Sticks: Compliance, Culture, and Career Growth with Jason Berkowitz

September 25, 2025 • Jason E. Brooks • Season 1 • Episode 15

Jason Berkowitz, Founder & CEO of Arrow Up Training, joins Jason E. Brooks on The Leadership Table to share how compliance and safety training can do more than just “check the box”—it can actually shape culture, lower turnover, and strengthen leadership.

With 50+ restaurant openings under his belt and leadership roles at Umami Burger, Tocaya Organica, and The Madera Group, Jason has seen firsthand how proper training impacts both employees and guests.

In this episode, Jason and Jason discuss:

✅ Why onboarding sets the tone from day one
✅ How supervisors bridge expectations and execution
✅ Making compliance engaging (yes, even fun)
✅ The role of empathy and storytelling in coaching
✅ Jason’s new initiative We Arrow Up—free restaurant essentials training nationwide

If you lead people—whether in hospitality or beyond—you’ll walk away with practical strategies to improve clarity, accountability, and culture in your organization.

🔗 Connect with Jason Berkowitz:
Website: https://arrowuptraining.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasondberkowitz/

Instagram: @arrow_up_training | Twitter/X: @jdberko

📚 Connect with Jason E. Brooks:
Books & Resources: https://jasonebrooks.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasonebrooks/

Instagram: @jasonebrooks

🎧 Subscribe to The Leadership Table for more conversations that inspire, lead, and elevate.

#Leadership #RestaurantTraining #Hospitality #Culture #ArrowUpTraining

Speaker 1: 0:05

Welcome to the Leadership Table, where conversations inspire, lead and elevate. I'm your host, jason E Brooks, and today I'm joined by Jason Berkowitz, hospitality veteran and founder of Arrow Up Training. Jason has opened more than 50 restaurants, led operations at major brands and now works to turn compliance and safety training into culture, building experiences that stick. We'll talk about why onboarding sets the tone from day one, how supervisors bridge expectations and execution, and Jason's vision for we Arrow Up a free essentials training platform for restaurants nationwide. Let's dive in. You know I like to ask a personal question, just so the listeners get to know the person you know. So quick, rapid fire Book, podcast or playlist that's been in your rotation lately.

Speaker 2: 1:05

So here's how I work with books. At nighttime I try to not read anything that's going to get my brain going, because then I can't sleep. So nighttime are for fiction, nonfiction, biographies, fun books. I started the Harry Potter series, not even restarted. I've seen the movies. I'm going back to the books, which is great for daytime books. I have started audio books, which is somewhat new to me, and I'm on this train right now. Maybe you'll audio, you know you'll VO yours at some point. Maybe it's coming out, maybe not, doesn't need to happen, but to me I love that while sort of working out or doing something.

Speaker 2: 1:51

So a recent book is Abundance. Ezra Klein's one of the co-writers of it. I made it through the whole thing.

Speaker 2: 1:58

I appreciate its perspective, which is saying that the Democratic Party used to be a party of building.

Speaker 2: 2:04

It was a party of making things which led to economic prosperity and the middle class and along the way, due to lack of trust with somewhat of the government, started to put up a lot of regulation and barriers and lawsuits and stopped building things.

Speaker 2: 2:21

And if we want to actually have a world of abundance abundant energy, abundant, you know, health care, things like that that matters then the Democratic Party for itself needs to look and say at what cost you know, is all of these death by a thousand paper cuts? That matters to me very much in the restaurant business out here in Los Angeles, where I'm a founding member of the Independent Hospitality Coalition, because we're working diligently to remove a lot of the red tape that we deal with when opening up restaurants in California, whether it be permitting, costs, delays, mismanagement, you know. So I like that book and I'm figuring out how to take that down to a level of a fairly blue state, because to me the heart of community is small business. So that is a book that I've recently just finished. I'm starting a new one and I'm digging the audio books and I like it during the daytime and getting my brain going.

Speaker 1: 3:27

I was just about to say you would know more than just about anyone about that abundance mindset and the negative kickback that has happened from the shift of what that party used to be and what it shifted towards. And you have front row seats to seeing that in California. So, yes, that makes sense. All right, not to get too political. But next question Best concert last five years, best concert you've been to and I know that you're a musician so you have you always want to give praise. At the same time you're critical. Best concert last five years.

Speaker 2: 4:10

I went to the Grateful Dead at the Sphere and that was really awesome. And that's aging myself and that's doing everything, but it was my birthday, it was this year. Yeah, it was just such a fun experience because even it begins before you even enter the sphere. If you go to the sphere for any reason, see a show, I love entering through for any future shows.

Speaker 2: 4:31

To go enter through the walkway coming from I think it's a Venetian or the Palazzo Hotel, whether you stay there or not, go have a bite to eat, a drink or whatnot. As you're walking over, you're walking over with everybody and the culture of the community, of whatever the band and the vibe is. So for that it was great, because you had multiple generations of people grandkids, grandparents, kids everybody together, whether they're rocking their tie dye or their skull and steal your face or dancing bears. There was just this feeling of joy that was in the air and there was this moment feeling of joy that was in the air. And, um, there was this moment in the show.

Speaker 2: 5:10

Right before the show, somebody spilled something on the steps and it must have been bad. I couldn't really see but one of the attendants who worked there uh, you know, one of the the team members cleaned it up and apparently had like it was this big spill and did this thorough job. And then, once they finished around them, everyone gave them an applause. I was like man, this is, and it was this big spill and did this thorough job. And then, once they finished around them, everyone gave him an applause. I was like this is and it was a sincere one, it was sincere appreciation, it was like it's like, first off, how cool is that? Right, that this person was like that's cool, thank you. Secondly, that a thorough job was done, or that would be first for safety, because if you slip on these steps, it is no bueno, yeah.

Speaker 2: 5:45

But thirdly, I was like man, I dig this, this group of people, this truly appreciative, you know, some would say maybe soft in some areas but big hearted in others. I just loved that moment. And then the band came on, it crushed it and the visuals and the experience and this, you know, multidimensional thing. And so when we think about restaurants, what is the all encompassing experience at the end of the day? It's how you feel. Sometimes it's just the food, the music, right, if you transfer it over. What's the product that you're communicating? But then can you take it further and you know what's the full experience and how's the emotion. So, tying it back to this theme, that was just powerful, you know. Then I went to a concert where somebody was on an acoustic guitar and that was powerful. It's what you do with the tools you have.

Speaker 1: 6:35

You know. Speaking of tools, you have went through a whole tool chest in your you know background, in your resume. You've opened 50 plus restaurants. You've held senior leadership roles. But out of all of that, what are the things you learned from opening restaurants, running restaurants, being as a leader that inspired you to launch?

Speaker 2: 7:01

arrow up training, though one very basic notion that I learned years ago. Everybody just needs to know, or wants to know, two things what's my job and how am I doing? And what's my job is in setting and training expectations. So so you've documented what good looks like and you've trained it in a way that lands and communicates. The second one is how am I doing and how am I doing? Is in feedback, any sort of feedback? It could be a checklist that checks off, that says this was what was expected, this was completed. It could be a more formalized review, it could be little flybys just want to let you know. You crushed it last night, things like that.

Speaker 2: 7:50

And when I was opening up restaurants or when I was coming in as a no matter what my position was, as long as I was somewhat above store authority, up to from director of service, up to chief operating officer, I would say you know, no one talked to me for two weeks to 30 days because I'm just going to go, put a full training program in place, because if I open up my emails, even I'm done, because now I'm working on what's urgent and if I'm working on what's urgent, I can't focus on what's important, and by doing that I was going to mitigate so many of the problems that were going to become urgent and then at that point I said you know what, I can start to systematize this and roll this out as a bit of a blanket.

Speaker 2: 8:33

You know off the shelf toolkit for restaurants to use, so that they're not starting at zero, they're starting at one or two or three or four right, and then they can fill in the gaps. Oh, they're starting at one or two or three or four right, and then they can fill in the gaps. And you know, we'll get into how we started and where we moved. But if there's any takeaways for any leader or anyone here and I mean you're crushing what you're sharing with them and how to give feedback and when to give feedback and all of that are you answering these two questions for anybody who reports to you or reports up or you support? If you aren't, go focus on that immediately.

Speaker 1: 9:10

If you have emerging managers who need to grow into confident leaders, or if you're part of a nonprofit, a culinary workforce program or a pro-start education foundation looking to equip students and alumni with leadership skills. That's exactly why we created CoachUp. It's a cohort-based program that helps new leaders communicate clearly, coach with confidence and succeed in leadership roles. In just a few weeks, they'll have the skills to thrive and you'll see the difference in your people. Learn more at jasonebrookscom forward slash coach up.

Speaker 1: 9:47

Why is it that we seem to be revisiting the question of training and how to train so much? It seems like we tend to have one of those industries that it's it's. It is almost always a reset or people figuring out the how to do it whether it's a new brand launching or whatever and they're always trying to figure out how do I actually train right and how, not just train right? How do we stop sucking, not just train right? How do we stop sucking? And when I look at other industries, does it really happen that often or is it that I'm just not in those circles to see that sucking that much? Is it just me or have you seen it that that we keep coming back to? We need to do better at training our people. You you put together a very great tool that people are able to really dig in and do it. But why is it that that people starting new in their business need to answer that question of how do we stop sucking at training?

Speaker 2: 11:01

I think it's a great question and I think I think every industry struggles with it. I think restaurants struggle with it probably more for a few reasons. One is such high turnover, thinking about the cost centers and how that's actually affecting you in so many, you know, holistic and unholistic ways, and I think there's not that many out of the box solutions that make it easy for people to take, adapt and build on. So we're getting deep into SOPs, out-of-the-box, just here you go.

Speaker 2: 11:31

Here's, even beyond training. Here's your standard operating procedures, literally out-of-the-box, ready to go, and that 80% to 90% of what you need is there. You can fill in the gaps on your recipes and stuff like that which is bigger than the 10%, but I'm saying is all the other stuff it's out of the box and it's ready to go. So I think it's lack of bandwidth. I think it's a lot of first-time owners that get into the game and don't realize they don't know what they don't know and they're not listening to these podcasts and they're not absorbing, and so they're starting a little too late and behind the ball. And then, once you're behind the ball, you're putting out fires and then at that moment you are, once you get to the point that you're focusing on what's urgent over what's important and you're not doing a balance of it at some point, then you're behind the ball. And so that's one of the solutions why we're coming in saying look, here you go. It's not everything you need, but it is so much of what you need out of the gates. Get going, let's get you moving, and then you figure out who your rock stars are, because organized people work for organized environments, and then they'll help you fill in the gaps for the other stuff.

Speaker 2: 12:41

So it's turnover, it's industry, it's new owners, it's lack of resources out there, it's, it's a lot of these things, and and sometimes it's just in the education of, like you know, owners will say people are terrible, they don't, they don't get it. Well, did you set them up for success? And fortunately that attracts a lot of restaurant owners. Restaurant owners, especially small independents a lot of the best are out of their mind and so they're so good at certain things and not at others. That's why, when I was a consultant, I learned to have a very thick skin and I would say to them fire your bullets at me, not any team members and let me figure out how to communicate them and translate that into action, because they're not going to understand what you're trying to solve and actually what you think you want to solve. Right now you're not communicating in the right way, but I know what we need to solve.

Speaker 1: 13:37

Let's go to the opposite end of that spectrum, so we just talk through those that hit the ground running and don't think through the processes needed to actually get training done, the right way to be the most effective. Let's look at the other end of that spectrum, that end of the spectrum where the brand's been around since 1960. There's a thousand locations and they got that damn compliance training back from 1982. And no one feels it, no one gets it. They're just crying their eyes out Like please just let it stop, stop the bleeding. How do you make compliance training, especially something as sexy as compliance? How do you make it engaging and relatable?

Speaker 2: 14:32

And we say come for the compliance day for the vibe. Thanks for that setup, you know or we used to say we make sexual harassment training sexy and she's got to have a little bit of fun with it Got to hit it right on the nose.

Speaker 2: 14:44

Just hit it right on the nose, man Right on the nose. So thanks for that lob. It's a good lob and a good setup with that. Let me tell you a story that came to mind only this past week and I didn't even think about it while we were building out our anti-harassment training. I remember when I was a new I think it was my first job as a restaurant manager in a fine dining restaurant and I was front of house and the sous chef used to every morning love, because I was the morning manager. I'm paying my dues at 6 am showing up.

Speaker 2: 15:18

And the sous chef used to love to come out every morning and pull out his flip phone and show me just terrible, disgusting images or short little videos or little things on it that was just like just very chef driven terrible. Some of that was absolutely hilarious and you know I have a high tolerance and some of it was just I can't get the image out of my brain. Disgusting and and it was like he, he didn't do it to make me laugh so much, it was a power play and it was a you know this, this power move and and this, this move to make me feel awkward and that's what he was going for. I want to see how awkward I can make you. And I laughed because I needed him to like me, because when the back of house likes you, life is easier in the restaurant than not, and I absolutely hate that. And I've done a good job of working on that in any restaurant that I was a lead operator in and we're working on that through moving the culture.

Speaker 2: 16:21

Now, that's not a story I told, but that's a story that we get and understand and we have a lot of stories like this that we captured on our training and so we go back to. How do you make it interesting? You capture real stories of moments that we can all relate to that are not the obvious quid pro quo. You know, if you sleep with me I'll give you the better shifts, because we all know that and you've got to communicate that. That ain't right. But other things that are a little bit of the gray area and a little bit of the lines of just when we know like, oh my God, that did happen to me and to me our training is modern because we're telling real stories that people are talking about. We're folding it into GIFs and memes and mixed media stew, you know, I love it. Somebody just took our training to see about bringing it on board and they said it's like a documentary. You know, I feel like this training should be on Netflix and I was like that's awesome Because we're capturing these videos.

Speaker 2: 17:24

That's awesome's awesome, and they signed and they're a big company, um, and we and I and I absolutely love that. And then they talked about how. But then, all of a sudden, you're going into all these like fun little interactions and stories and memes and gifts and podcasts. So that's how we do it, but why? But why do I care about that? For our training? What am I looking to do? Well, if you're in a state that requires it, then you need to do it anyway. So, as somebody said to me before we started, can you make something a little less painful, please? We went further, but whether you are or not in a place that it's mandatory, hopefully it achieves three things. Number one is you've established as a company to say, cool, right, and so that story, I'll get that story on.

Speaker 2: 18:08

You know, other people have told stories that we just we know right, let's make it clear that we don't accept this. Second is let's try to put it in the chef's brain or whomever's doing it. Right, that you know. Let's show you what it's like from the other perspective. Do you want to be this person? Like God? I didn't really think about it. You're right. Wow, you know. This individual has other things from their past that they're bringing to the table. And when I do this, I'm triggering stuff that I don't want to do Like. I don't want to be that person. So let's give them the opportunity to kind of see, like this is a professional place, this isn't it's restaurants. We're all weird, be weird. Just can we point out to how you're making now, if you still want to do that, well then okay.

Speaker 2: 19:03

Part one is said we've cleared that you shouldn't be, you shouldn't do it, so now you're staying or going. The second is let's hold a mirror to it. And then the third is let's empower the people with real tools to get out of it. So for myself, right Today, I'd be able to say look, you got to do better than this. That's disgusting. You want to make me laugh? I love something funny in the morning. Come up with something that's smarter than that. That ain't smart. Come on, you could do better. And to put it on top of that, and to redirect it and handle that bully in that moment. And there's a lot of very specific stories and examples that we use of how somebody got out of a situation or redirected a situation or help somebody else in a situation, before taking it up a notch Now, absolutely, you take it up a notch, but if anyone's listening to this, one of the reasons I don't subscribe to a government issued course is they're not looking out for you as the small business. They're looking to cover their own ass. And so I like a course that says let's see if you can figure out how to handle the playground yourself, says let's see if you can figure out how to handle the playground yourself, and if it's not working, let's make sure there are the right reporting mechanisms in place and the right triggers and the right

Speaker 2: 20:12

documentation, to handle it Absolutely and protect everybody who needs to be protected. But in the meantime, you know, because restaurants are America's number one first job. You know because restaurants are america's number one first job. So a lot of these kids are just learning how to be in a professional environment and today there's less interaction than there was when you and I started in restaurants. There's more online gaming. There's more things that that are less personal skills that people are developing, so they're developing them at work, so we get into the whole thing. It's not just you can't do this. It's like, okay, this is a strange situation you're probably going to encounter. Let's bring in somebody and how they dealt with it right, or hey, this is an awkward situation, but you're going to grow from it. It's not harassment or abuse, but like, figure out how to navigate this moment, because that's going to give you a life skill.

Speaker 1: 21:02

I think you're absolutely right in trying not trying in forcing our way, for lack of better terms to manage the gray, because that gray these days is really deep because of the point that you made of there's a less human interaction between people, with the people that are getting into restaurants the number one industry has a first job and them getting into it. They have less practice being around people, talking to people. What happens online is a really thick gray line to where there's lots of inappropriate things happening and no one there kind of guiding them and putting up those guardrails of what should be said or done or shown between people and what shouldn't Male, female, male, male, female, female, it doesn't matter. Male female, male, male, female, female, it doesn't matter. But managing that gray area and getting that from day one, from the onboarding, from the orientation, making that stick so that people can understand how to then take that into whether they're going to be a school teacher or build rockets, it doesn't matter. But we can't turn our back on that gray area and it needs to be laid out more within a way that is relatable to the people that are hearing it and it's being taught too.

Speaker 1: 22:35

So I love the I think you said media stew that you're making in order to help find the pieces that stick for them, to get them to understand what it's like to be the other person on the other end of that conversation. Because when you're online, they're probably not thinking about what it's like to be the other person in that big old dark room called the internet. They don't really care. They just want to voice how they feel, what they feel, in whatever words that they choose. And when you're in a professional setting, that's not something that's going to stick or is going to have you employed for that long if you don't understand what those boundaries are and how that makes someone else feel.

Speaker 1: 23:22

Now, a lot of this is good for, for the people that are coming up as a pantry cook, as a server, as a grill cook, grill chef, a maitre d' but I think, in my opinion, I love focusing in on that, on those, on those supervisors opinion I love focusing in on those supervisors, on those supervisors that are helping to really draw the influence, have influence on the culture that is happening in and around those four walls when everyone else isn't looking. So I know that you agree that supervisors are the bridge between expectations and execution, but what do they really need in order to succeed, though? Because we may put them in position, but what are the things that may be missing in order to help them succeed when they're helping to create that culture?

Speaker 2: 24:20

So I remember being a supervisor, I remember being the employee who showed up in college working at this place called Cafe Venezia and I'm 19 working there and I'm responsible and I love it. And the owner came to me and was like I got a position, for I need somebody to be opener in the morning and closer at night. You know, not clopening but, like you know, taking on the different positions, you're responsible. Would you want the position? I was, like you know, comes with a raise. I was like you know, let's do it. And so here I am. I have two things that most supervisors get, which is keys to the door, which is a hell of a responsibility, and the ability to comp food and a drink, and immediately we make sure that those are given.

Speaker 2: 25:08

What I was not given was okay and I'm showing up and I'm going to make it on time. And you know, the person who I wanted to like, who was two years older than me at the fraternity, showed up a little bit late. And how do I say come on, man, like I need you here. You know, of course I'm not going to do that because that's going to affect my social relationship with this individual, and so I have no tools of how to communicate them, and there wasn't nearly the structure in place that I wouldn't need to communicate this to them, because it was clearly communicated in an objective system. And so you know we all start to fault. I'm not going to take that risk, which means the restaurant's going to be struggling because things aren't going to be opening on time, which means eventually I'm going to give up my position as a leader because I don't want to deal with it, because it's not worth it.

Speaker 2: 26:17

Revolving door and also behavior isn't being coerced and corrected, influenced and corrected. And so how do we set that up? And that's part of what you and I are into and to me, I'm approaching it from a couple of different ways. And first is teaching an 18 year old how to have an awkward conversation with an 18 year old, and how do we do this? I go back to stories where I'm not going to tell them what to do. I grabbed a story of a fellow 18-year-old that was like, let me tell you what happened. And I asked somebody and they're like, why don't you try to do it like this next time? Say it like this, right? And so really giving them the practice and the tools to have these. Now you just you got to learn it in real time too, so you got to get out there. But let's arm you with the practice and the tools and the role playing so that you know what to say and how to do this and what to set it up. That's the first the other thing. So arm them with the information.

Speaker 2: 27:17

The other thing is it's on us to establish systems so we can minimize the micromanaging as much as possible, and the way we do that is through in training, constant general pressure of micro messaging, and we do that with our media stew of different things, of continually, you know, rolling out how we need you to behave. And the second is any form of training or system in place so that I'm not the jerk to tell you you know you got to show up on time. Or let's put the rag back into the sanitizer bucket, which is a huge one. You'll see that's a big one, right, it's illegal. You can't leave the rag out. I'm not going to take that, I'm just going to keep putting it in for people who didn't do it.

Speaker 2: 27:58

Or you know that shouldn't be my responsibility and me to tell you to do it. You know, I don't want to nag you. Maybe you are, you know, not the jerk, but you suck a little bit because you're putting me in a position that I got to continue to nag you. Well, that only is in. That's only clear if, from the top down, the organization we've said this is training. This is the expectation.

Speaker 2: 28:22

Everybody, when you pass the rag, if you see it outside the bucket, you throw it in the red bucket. It's done that way. Let's minimize the need to micromanage. Let's not make me the nudge, but let's put you in the position of power. Employee, fellow team member, that why'd you got, why'd you put me in this position? And most managers you know restaurant managers are just us cool people, shift leads that are just taking on more responsibility. Why are we putting them in the position to have to like we're the jerks, to put them in the position to have to manage? Us Managers should only be there to support, manage the situation, not the people. Support the people, manage the moment. That is how we Support the people, manage the moment. That is how we do it. That's how I'm looking to do it.

Speaker 1: 29:08

I like how you used the tactic of telling stories and I think that's very effective, not only in branding.

Speaker 1: 29:22

And we're always told Sean walsheft, tell your story, make sure you, you, you, you tell your story and if you feel you've told it a thousand times, tell it a thousand more.

Speaker 1: 29:33

But telling stories to anyone, it doesn't matter if they're tech savvy, um, or if they were raised in sports since the age of seven and have always been told what to do.

Speaker 1: 29:47

It doesn't matter between those two gaps, because if they're a tech person that has been online, they've been on social media, they've been, they've had free will to say and do what they want and go and learn what they want when they want and express themselves. Typically, if you just tell them, do this and don't do this, that might not sink in as to the why. But when you can tell that story and you can help connect those emotions to those trigger points within their nervous system and then begin to see and feel what you're saying, not because there's this fence, this guard up and someone's trying to tell me what to do, but they're picturing the moment in what you're speaking towards and they can feel the characters that you're speaking to and then they understand. So telling that story very impactful tactic in order to help people understand the difference between right and wrong, while giving actionable feedback in the moment to help change future behavior.

Speaker 1: 30:59

I love that.

Speaker 2: 31:01

A hundred percent, and sometimes, just to counterpoint that a little bit, the why works without the story, so that when the story comes in you know it's it, it's the mixed media stew. You got to flip it around a little bit, but it, but, but the and the why is just so vital in this, in in, just like the quickest way, because this, we, we do it like this right, and you and you kind of set it up a little bit, and, and so both of those pieces together are huge. Something that you touched on, that I know you're a big proponent on, is, and if you're constantly reinforcing something, whether it be positive or or you know expectations or anything, if you're reinforcing it maybe, then you throw a story in the middle. You're doing things maybe, then you throw a story in the middle. You're doing things Either way.

Speaker 2: 31:44

As a leader, you have this constant interaction and communication and you teach. Your frontline shift leads to do this. Well then, if you need to coach somebody, there's less of the chance that they're putting up that barrier you talked about that. This person's coming to correct me, because it's not always a defense mechanism. You're just expecting the information, because sometimes it's very complimentary, sometimes it's very constructive, whatever it is. It's not always constructive when you're talking to me or negative. Therefore, I'm not putting up this immediate block.

Speaker 2: 32:14

The most important thing to connect with the other individual and we learned this, building de-escalation training was empathy, and the way that you get empathy is to see that this person's on my side, so having something positive, something that you agree on, whatever it is. So this idea, this constant general pressure, the person's open to this idea that, whatever it is, you're here here, you got my back, so I'm going to listen to it which then allows the story to resonate to land, the why to resonate to land. But that constant coaching and stuff you touch on is huge for the individual to not put up those immediate defenses that we do when we think this individual doesn't have my back.

Speaker 1: 33:04

It really does boil down to how we start off those conversations. I have this one document that says say this, not that. And yes, it is a piece of paper, but what it does is it helps to teach people who don't know how to use their words. Don't start off a conversation like this. Start it off like this versus saying man, you keep burning up that sauce, billy, and every time you burn up that sauce it just sucks, because then we have to redo it and we are losing time on this order. Versus, hey, billy, I've seen your sauce come out great, but I've noticed the past few times it's been breaking. Do me a favor, turn down the heat. Let me see your sauces the next few times and let's make sure that the heat control whatever.

Speaker 1: 33:54

But the start of it, the the start of that conversation, is going to either a have them hear every other word or just hear, billy, you suck, or they hear you stating how to change future behavior and the fact that you've seen them do better in the past. When they get used to hearing you having that gun that type of constructive feedback to where it's not going straight negative, you can always tie in the great moments, not always. Every moment doesn't need a tie in of something great, but how you start to that conversation will either change future behavior or cause them to push back more, which, in place, waste more time, kind of like I'm doing with this conversation. This is your show, jason.

Speaker 2: 34:50

I'm just your guest. Well, right, right, exactly. So let's pick up, let's unravel that a little bit. So 100%. I love that idea of you're coming out of the gates by saying hey, we, I noticed that you've really been doing this great. But recently and recently and we think about the ands and the buts there's been a couple times where it's been breaking. I got a suggestion on what I think we can move through this. Are you open to that?

Speaker 2: 35:19

You know, cool, let's try this. And you want to do it in a kind of casual way and you, if you can, and be be a person talking to a person and not be the hall monitor and formalize it and and blow it up to be bigger than it needs to be and just kind of have that, that, that conversation with them, and that know that you're looking out to that 100. Another thing in addition to that, as you started it by, by the way, side note, I hate the compliment sandwich or I'm not a fan of it, so it can't be contrived and inauthentic. We're just talking about the lead in. That shows the brain. This person's on my side. A little compliment, a little something On the other side of it.

Speaker 2: 35:57

Or, in addition, I was talking to a leader, a as experienced as I am. I'm helping him kind of, like you know, off the books, just kind of weekly, giving a call, talking to him, helping him on track as some changes are happening in their organization. And he was supposed to give me, you know, an update on a thing that I had asked, which was, you know, set your weekly goals and whatnot. And he was like you know, he talked about kind of, and he did. He got really busy and pulled away a little bit and the little old school in me because old school to old school, because I'm not talking to a younger manager who reports up I was really about to come out and be like listen, man, drop my F-bomb and go do it or don't do it, and I'm not talking to you, this is my time and don't waste. You know. And that could have been effective in a particular point. But I said to him all right, do me a favor. I know you want to deliver this because you're asking me to help and you've appreciated this.

Speaker 2: 36:52

He's like, you know, I said. He's like, yeah, I said so, something's getting in the way. Let's kind of figure out what's getting in the way so we can move through this. And he's like well, I picked up a couple other. You know we lost a DO director of ops, and so now I'm driving around to people's locations and I'm in the car far more than I was before. I was like okay, that I can work with. Here's what we're going to do Open up ChatGPT and we're going to work this way and you're going to set the list and talk about it and ask it to populate a PDF for me at the start of the week and then the end of the week of how you did and along the week, just go back to that chat while you're in the car and update it, and it will produce the report for me.

Speaker 2: 37:32

He's like I didn't think about that. I was like do you think that will solve where we are? He's like, absolutely. I was like, okay, well, if it doesn't, we're going to move through the next one or I'm stopping these conversations Right. Then the little old school me came out. It was and so we'll see what happens on Monday how the call goes. It was that idea, though, of saying and going back to the sauce or whatever, and saying this is, we know what standard is. We've we've agreed to something it's not hitting. Talk to me about, like, what do you think is getting in the way? Because sometimes your cook might say, truthfully, these burners suck, they're inconsistent, or it happens. Or, truthfully, this floor mat or John keeps coming over. Something gets in the way. So open up that conversation and get buy-in, because they might have the exact solution. Either way, they take ownership, and that's that I love.

Speaker 1: 38:23

That's money, that is. That is pure gold. Ok, now you your execution of training is, I can absolutely say, miles above what people are used to training, whether in the restaurant industry or not. They are so used to seeing in 2D and you are in 4D with a shadow. What is your long term vision of standardized training, not just the top shelf of training?

Speaker 2: 39:17

Not just the top shelf of training. What is your vision of standardized box and ready to go so that any restaurant could turn it on and it's out of the box, digitized, and you just begin, like I said, 80% of it there. I started with compliance because we had some other issues to tackle that we got into, then we moved into safety, then we moved into leadership development. Now we're moving into what you're talking about and the way what's really kind of crazy is, unless you're fine, fine, fine dining and there's some specific things aside from the menu. Like I said, 80 to 90% of it is going to be the same for quick service to quick service, fast casual to fast casual and full service to full service, training being digitized as we speak on our platform or others, because we are not just about the tech. I want to be where people are. I think is going to really help, at least for now, small to medium-sized businesses navigate the pitfalls that a lot of people hit and then attract organized people, because organized people want to work for organized environments. Now let's talk about something we're about to launch Just here, just now spoken. What's coming down the pipeline? It's going to be the beginning that leads to this next phase. What we are launching is we Arrow Up. Now it's not there yet it's coming because we're working with a couple sponsors. We Arrow Up is wearrowupcom.

Speaker 2: 40:53

It's a template, but you'll see we are rolling out free micro training to anyone who wants it, because restaurants are America's number one first job, as we said, and a lot of these people need the skills and the tools and whatnot to get going. So there is the eight-minute micro course of the basics, the one-on-ones of working together. Talks about showing up on time, not a way that's like you gotta show up on time like people telling a story. It's got slips, trips and falls. It's got how these are life skills right. Then we go into micro course, a four-minute course, five minutes on communication how do we speak, the words we use, as we said, the difference between can you move and I'm behind right here, and letting people know, because those things matter. Kitchen commandments Some of the Ten Commandments of what we expect from you working in the kitchen. It's a minute and a half fun little video attached to a course that I absolutely love.

Speaker 2: 41:53

Kind of like, say, knife behind you know hurt All that stuff and when to taste the food and you know, use the salt. Manager feedback, cashiering 101. And what we're going to do is now we're still selling our compliance training to anyone who is from small business to. You know, our last one had 350 units. We got the best anti-harassment safety courses. Come to ArrowUpTrainingcom and we will, you know, get you the right price for compliance training. But for all of these other things we arrow up.

Speaker 2: 42:31

My vision is we're going to roll this out, give it for free to everybody, let them tell us what they need, start to build on it. We're not we're not giving away all the secret sauce on leadership We'll see, but so much that's helping the frontline staff. And then my goal is to have co-sponsors funding it with us so that we can continue to give this away and get the arrow up way of doing things out to everybody and build, get that zero to one that restaurants need. That's coming down the pipeline very, very quickly, and then it's going to be all community built right. We're going to work with people to keep building this up. So I'm really excited. That will then be also a great net to see who wants to come on the platform and do more trackable training and task management and standard operating procedures. But let's get this out to everybody.

Speaker 1: 43:26

You know I'm honored you shared that on this podcast. I am Wow. That would be awesome, Jason. I mean that would be. It really is a huge gap that the small to medium sized restaurants out there have in stating that we don't have the budget in order to do training. Right, I just need you to watch me and do what I do, but don't say what I say, because I'm the boss, you know. I mean that's not. That's not real training and being able to, to offer that free training, micro training to everyone yes, I can see that as the future.

Speaker 2: 44:09

You like it. It's cool. Yeah, we'll see how it goes. I mean, we'll see. I can just tell you I'm excited and we're calling it the Restaurant Essentials.

Speaker 2: 44:17

And so the Restaurant Essentials are the basics that are universal across the board. So we've established a cohesive, agreed upon language and set of expectations. Let's pass on the right. So we've established a cohesive, agreed-upon language and set of expectations. Let's pass on the right. You know, when we're walking towards each other that's how we do it in the States when we're right in the corner behind picking things up off the floor. All of those basics and down to the idea of, yeah, the worst shift you've ever experienced most likely is when a coworker didn't show up. So are you going to do that to your other coworkers? Right? And so we just really start to build all that into it, and that's part of it.

Speaker 2: 44:56

As Sean says, you know everyone's a media company. I mean, you're an incredible media company. That's a piece of our media company. And these are, these are high design courses, high produce, high design, micro training. So it's a blanket way, going back to the idea of let's just do it the arrow up way and then laid a framework to the basics and then every culture within itself, because you've established expectations and trackability. Well, now the culture is going to live inside the experience you're uniquely providing and who the people are and what music you're playing. Right, our goal is to get to the point that we don't tell you what your culture is. We just cover the basics so you can actually curate the culture and not be hamstrung and dealing with all the other crap. That was manageable and really, if you just were proactive with it, you were going to clear that stuff out of the way so you can get to the good stuff I love it.

Speaker 1: 45:48

Yeah, you, you, you definitely don't want to be the one that uh helps to shape or define that culture. That's going to come, naturally, with the owner, with the founders, with the team. It is uh managing the minutia, the basics, the essentials, in order to help get to where that culture can grow. I have two more questions for you. Two more, okay, two more. If you could sit at a leadership table with three other leaders, whether alive or from history, who would you choose, and why?

Speaker 2: 46:25

Yeah, I thought about this. I appreciate you setting it up, and so here are three, because I'm going to talk about three very specific moments. So these are maybe a little heady and old school, for I don't know. I know the expansive of listeners. First is John F Kennedy, right at the decision of the Bay of Pigs time of to literally go to war or not go to war. I want to be there and I want to know, and I've read books on it and whatnot, but I want to know what. How did you know to make that decision? Because, at the end of the day, it's about deciding right and it's about deciding, and that, I think, might be another question coming up, so I'm going to hold off on that. The second would be Martin Luther King Jr, right when he was done with the.

Speaker 2: 47:15

I have a dream speech, not before but right after Celebrate. Did you let excitement fill the room? Was it so serious and of a moment that you couldn't even take the time for that? You know what was the room like right after that. You know when people were hugging you and being like you crush this, this thing is going to live forever. What was he like? What was that Like? Do you let that moment sink in or not sink in? I really would love to have been in the room in that moment and the third is Lincoln.

Speaker 2: 47:50

Abraham Lincoln, right before going on stage for the Gettysburg Address. And that one again what would you think that you're about to accomplish? You're on a battlefield. You're honoring those that have lost the country's figuring out if it's worth it or not worth it, but you have ideals and you need to say something that's going to inspire people to continue to lose their lives and the lives of their children to believe in something bigger than themselves. Tell me, right before you go on, aside from winning the war, what does, what does success look like and what? What is the conviction that you felt really comfortable? Being able to tell people to do this? Why? Why were you so sure that this was something that you could say? So I loved that question and I appreciate you setting it up, because it's not just a leader and being able to pick their brain. But there was a moment in time for each three of these leaders and I want to know what the hell was up at that moment.

Speaker 1: 48:51

That's deep, that's, that's that is next level that we don't tend to go back and do meaning. Whenever we fail, we tend to let it drag us through for the next week, the next month, the next year, 10 years. We hold on to that negative motion or emotion more than something positive, whenever we get into the, whenever it happened. How come we don't really go back and hit the pause and understand the why and actually learn from that and then mimic that. Not just mimic it, but make it systematic to where we are able to have those moments more often or spread them on to others. So I love that. Last question what's one conversation in your career that profoundly shaped how you lead today? And I know you've had lots of conversations, lots of great ones, but what's one that comes to mind that says this one, right here, is what helped build the foundation of how I do what I do.

Speaker 2: 50:11

The picking up a little bit on the last answer. I was a young vice president of a restaurant group, little experience for my position, and I kind of took that position from director up because I needed to control the ops, to run service, and I was really looking to be democratic. I had my team, I had my director of learning with me, I had my director of operations with me and a few other people, and we're sitting in the room and we're trying to figure out how do we push the openings and what do we do, because the money's, you know, demanding particular things of us and I and I went around the room and I got everybody's opinion and then, instead of just making a decision, I kept talking about it and I asked a couple more questions, not necessarily because I needed their information, but I was trying to be a little bit more democratic and make sure everybody truly felt heard and that I was not ready to decide. And so it was part me floundering and part me also wanting to be extremely democratic with the room. And my director of learning said who was a GM with us and worked our way up, look, doesn't matter, at this point You're our boss, you just got to make a decision and we'll follow you. And I was like, oh my God, and it hit me like a ton of bricks, right. Oh my God, and it hit me like a ton of bricks, right.

Speaker 2: 51:45

People would rather follow decisiveness, even off a cliff multiple times, than work under a leader who can't make up their mind or who's trying to just be so democratic that everybody feels heard. And you want to make sure everyone's heard and you absolutely want to make sure that you get the right input, especially from your senior leadership, because they're going to give you the information you need. But then just decide. Even if it's right or wrong. The fact that you decided was the most important thing. If it's time, it's time, and don't wait a second longer. Make sure you don't do it too soon, but when it's time, far too many leaders wait too long, myself included. And that moment hit me right over the head and I would like to think since then, I've practiced that. I've really, really practiced that. So be a decisive leader for your team, I agree 100%.

Speaker 1: 52:49

Ted Lasso does a really good job. I'm sure you know who Ted Lasso is. Ted Lasso does a really good job of using that democratic coaching style in order to get the voice of everyone in the room that needs to have a say in that choice, and then, but just know that after you hear those voices, that you are still the one that has to make that choice. I also like how Amazon Bezos has one of his rules of the only people that need to be in the room for a meeting is just enough for to feed two pizzas. If there's more people in the room, that would eat more than two boxes of pizza. You have too many people at the table.

Speaker 2: 53:43

The only reason why how big of a pizza, I'd say medium, medium.

Speaker 1: 53:51

Okay, the only reason why someone is in a meeting and this is one of my rules the only reason why someone is in a meeting, you ask them to be in a meeting because if they weren't there then decisions would not be able to be made in that 30 minutes or 60 minutes. If they are asked to be in a meeting and they have nothing to do with any decision that is being made, that they're not the core, then why are they in the meeting? They can be told what the thing is going to happen afterwards, so that's also one thing. Now, my listeners I'm sure they absolutely loved a lot of what you said. Some of them know you. A lot of them may not. Where can they find out more about Jason Berkowitz? Arrow Up Training, and we Arrow Up as well.

Speaker 2: 54:49

So love it, Appreciate the opportunity. I am on LinkedIn, jason D Berkowitz for LinkedIn. You will find me there and both Jason's Brooks and Berkowitz have LinkedIn presence. We like to communicate with our platform and our people and our community, arrowuptrainingcom, and we just put together a new compliance tab. Check that out Pretty straightforward, with pricing and all of what we do and how we deliver our compliance training for restaurant operators by restaurant operators. So there's a reason to use that. And then, depending on when this launches but let's say October 1st by October 1st go to wearrowupcom and then let us know There'll be some emails and stuff. Take, and then let us know There'll be some emails and stuff. Take some courses and let us know what we should build next, because that's what it's going to be. It's going to be community sourced. And then, a year from now, hopefully, we got American Express and Coca-Cola and all those people sponsoring this and we're just going to keep building.

Speaker 1: 56:00

Jason, thank you for sharing your insights and your passion and your stories because they help to really connect those dots. And to everyone tuning in, of course, if you like the episode and it resonated with you, don't just say this was great, Subscribe, leave a review, share it with a leader that can benefit from better training, stronger teams or even just better stories. You can visit jasonebrookscom for more leadership tools and resources. And until next time, remember, manage, lead, coach, repeat. Thank you so much, Jason. Thanks for joining me. Thank you.