Watch Out, Boy, We Did a Pod

In which Becky and Dan dissect the Hall & Oats smash hit "Maneater". Along the way they ask some important questions, like Are these the worst album covers by a successful pop band? How can Hall claim this song is about New York City? Where have we talked about Edgar Winters before? And was the video for "I Can't Go For That" shot for free?

We'd love to hear from you! Leave a comment on Youtube, Spotify, or email as at butiwontpod@gmail.com

Artwork: Billi Rakov

Music Credits: LonPeakMusic and Vodovoz Music Production

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 0:02

Here we are.

SPEAKER_00 0:03

Here we are. It's been a little while. I know. Life. Life got in the way of podcasting. How dare it do that?

SPEAKER_02 0:10

I know. Cheers.

SPEAKER_00 0:11

Cheers. Canary Island champagne.

SPEAKER_02 0:14

Yeah. From Erwan.

SPEAKER_00 0:16

The Canary Islands. Owned by Spain? I think. Owned by Spain. It's been probably not a PC way to say it. They are under Spanish rule.

SPEAKER_02 0:28

Dominion uh administration.

SPEAKER_00 0:31

Yeah. I don't even know what they're like.

SPEAKER_02 0:33

Spain's not a monarchy. Isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 0:36

It's a con I think it's a constitutional market. Isn't there a royal family in Spain?

SPEAKER_02 0:41

I don't know. I think there is. I should study that. We should study every country and every form of government. Try and learn more about other places. Yeah. Instead of being so.

SPEAKER_00 0:53

We're here, we're here in summer. Not officially summer yet.

SPEAKER_02 0:57

Not until the 21st of June, right?

SPEAKER_00 0:59

School is out and school's out for you. Yeah, we're we're in the midst of uh June 14th. June 14th. So actually by the time this gets put out, it might be. Maybe I'll try to put it out like on the first day of summer. Oh, that'd be cute. What a celebration. What's been going on?

SPEAKER_02 1:14

Well, okay. We We just bought a mattress. Bought a mattress today. Thank God.

SPEAKER_00 1:21

Adulting over here, winning being an adult.

SPEAKER_02 1:24

Also living in sin. We're living together.

SPEAKER_00 1:28

Unmarried. I don't think people do people actually say that anymore.

SPEAKER_02 1:34

Oh, for sure. Yeah, yeah. My grandma would have said it.

SPEAKER_00 1:37

Nobody I know. Your grandma would have. I'm talking to people today.

SPEAKER_02 1:41

I feel like I have an aunt who would say that.

SPEAKER_00 1:44

Okay. That's good. Nothing else happened then. Olivia Rodrigo's new album came out. You were very thoroughly enjoying that.

SPEAKER_02 1:52

With your high school girl taste in music. No. Yes. He has really good taste in music, but also high school girl taste.

SPEAKER_00 2:01

I'll call up to that. Her new album is fucking great, though, I have to say. It's really, really good.

SPEAKER_02 2:07

I think it sounds it has such a Chapel Roan sound to me.

SPEAKER_00 2:10

She's way better than Chapel Roan.

SPEAKER_02 2:12

No, but a lot of the songs have that vibe. That the way she hits with her voice, and like there's something about like that people seem to be liking, which I feel like Chapel Roan's trying to be Taylor. So maybe it really goes from the Taylor thing.

SPEAKER_00 2:29

There's a couple like some of like Olivia Rodriguez's bridges are some very Taylor swept. She has a kind of like rapid fire thing that it's I love it all. It's great. I'm here for it.

SPEAKER_02 2:41

I no, I listened to it all day on Friday at work while we were doing videos.

SPEAKER_00 2:46

So it's good stuff.

SPEAKER_02 2:48

I listen for you for solidarity.

SPEAKER_00 2:52

For your 48-year-old boyfriend who listens to Olivia Rodrigo.

SPEAKER_02 2:57

Mm-hmm. 48.

SPEAKER_00 3:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 3:02

48 until December. Um so so speaking of you know, pop stars, we got up, we're doing a pop, we're doing some pop stars today.

SPEAKER_02 3:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:13

We're doing uh megastars, actually.

SPEAKER_02 3:16

I mean, and are I yeah. Well, I don't know. I wasn't gonna say that. I was still just gonna say, like, this person's voice, the lead singer, is like one of the best voices. Like to me, I I just love I love like Smile Sarah is just like the when I first heard that song, I actually thought it was like um in the vein of the Commodores or something like that. You know, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:45

So so the band today's Hall and Oates. Yeah. Uh John Hall and Daryl Oates. Yeah. Right. Yeah, and they're they're one of these like multi-genre crossing uh bands, but but RB, they are one of the rare white bands to to chart on the RB charts.

SPEAKER_02 4:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:04

They were definitely like whether it's like Blue-eyed soul or whatever you want to call it, they are a white band that pulled off RB or inspired by RB, uh uh covered by RB bands, sampled by hip-hop bands. So they're they're like firmly in that that that mold.

SPEAKER_02 4:22

Um well, because they must be hugely inspired by RB themselves in order to have that sound, right?

SPEAKER_00 4:30

Yeah, I think so. They grew up in Philadelphia, which is um a very rich RB, has a rich RB history. They call it the Philly Sound. A lot of bands came out of Philadelphia. Um, and yeah, they were definitely inspired by that. They uh came together in the late 60s, began recording together in the early 70s, hit it big by the late 70s.

SPEAKER_02 4:51

Yeah, I remember listening to a podcast. What's that one that I like? The Memphis one that goes so dark about bands.

SPEAKER_00 5:01

Oh yeah, um Disgraceland.

SPEAKER_02 5:04

Disgraceland. Yeah, they have one about them, about Holland Oates, um, because I guess they sort of um have a bad reputation for being kind of not the nicest guys in rock and roll or something.

SPEAKER_00 5:21

Oh, that's interesting. I never yeah. They they they've they've, by the way, they've completely fallen out, those two.

SPEAKER_02 5:27

Oh, have they?

SPEAKER_00 5:28

Yeah, to the point where Hall sued Oates a couple of years ago to ensure that he wasn't able to sell their music catalog. Because I guess they kind of jointly own it.

SPEAKER_02 5:40

And so they can only sell it together then?

SPEAKER_00 5:42

Yeah, I think they have to jointly agree to sell the catalog.

SPEAKER_02 5:46

Well, that seems fair.

SPEAKER_00 5:47

Yeah, it seems kind of logical, but maybe maybe one of them was thinking about trying to sell it anyway. Apparently, they just don't even speak anymore. Um, so I whatever. They made a lot of good music too together.

SPEAKER_02 5:58

That's kind of sad when that happens.

SPEAKER_00 6:00

Um, so Hollow Notes a little before my time. I mean, like obviously growing up, I heard a lot of them, but they were their their heyday is sort of that like you know, late 70s to mid eighties window.

SPEAKER_02 6:14

I mean, I feel like I was in elementary school when like Sarah smiled.

SPEAKER_00 6:19

Sarah Smiles 76.

SPEAKER_02 6:22

That is I like love that song so much.

SPEAKER_00 6:25

But what are your like when you think of Holland Oates? What are the first things that come to your mind? By the way, for viewers at home that can picture these guys, John Hall is the blonde guy, and Daryl Oates is the guy with the Magna PI mustache and the like kind of Afro-looking hair.

SPEAKER_02 6:41

Yes, like or the curly super curly, but like he reminds me of some like porn star vibe. Oh, totally. His look is like very oh my gosh. But but then there's that one album cover they had where they look like naagle women.

SPEAKER_00 6:57

We'll we'll get to that. Okay. We got we got we got to talk about their their album covers because they're really their problem.

SPEAKER_02 7:04

But I mean, I just think of like I think of loving the songs so much that I would tape them from the radio. Like I'll put a cassette tape in and tape it. Like um, but I just I loved them. Uh my brother loved them for a long time until the song we're doing today.

SPEAKER_00 7:26

Until one of today's songs, yeah. Yeah. But they went, you know, they sort of went through different phases, and I think, you know, like any band that goes through phases, fans will either really like the new phase or really dislike the new phase.

SPEAKER_02 7:39

And they Yeah, what album did I have that I used to listen to over and over again? I don't even like know their album kind of.

SPEAKER_00 7:48

Probably like Private Eyes, maybe or there's gotta be one before that.

SPEAKER_02 7:53

Let's see.

SPEAKER_00 7:54

Um what's the one Sarah Smiles is on? It's on that one like abandoned. Well, I feel like I have a greatest hits one. It's just like the dumbest album.

SPEAKER_02 8:03

I'm trying to see the cover of my one that I had. Yeah. Oh, I think this was maybe it, the very best of Hollow Notes. Oh, the Rich Girl. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 8:13

You love Rich Girl.

SPEAKER_02 8:14

I love that song so much. Um Kiss on My List. I feel like you had never heard that song before. Like when I was singing every word, and you're like, I don't think I've ever heard this song.

SPEAKER_00 8:27

I think I'd heard it. I just didn't. I just I just you know what it is. They had a lot of songs. I it had not occurred to me it was them, you know. Because my like, you know, my dad wasn't into them. My dad's record collection is sort of like the base of my musical tastes, and he wasn't into them, even though I could kind of see he could possibly be, but he wasn't, he didn't have any other records, so I was in for I was familiar with their stuff, but not like I saw a lot of stuff I couldn't quite pin on them. I was like, Oh, that's Holland Oats. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 8:53

No, but we were listening to a song and I was singing every word, and you're like, what is this song? And I was like, This is Holland Oates. Oh, yeah. Was it one on one? One on one. I want to play that game tonight. Anyway, yeah, this is the album that I had. Um, it's called The Very Best of Daryl Hall and Gian O's. And my best friend, Yvette, hates Holland Oates. Like, I I wanted to play it. We were having a party and I wanted to play that CD, and she's all absolutely not. It's just like so funny. Like people kind of love them or hate them.

SPEAKER_00 9:27

Daryl Hall and John Oates, commonly known as Holland Oates, an American RB duo. So even Wikipedia calls them an RB duo, from in Philadelphia in 1970. Uh, Daryl Hall, that's the blonde dude. He was generally lead vocalist. John Oates uh supplied electric guitar, backup vocals, occasionally singing lead. They wrote the songs together, though, and so they really were like a duo in that case. Um they're credited as either Hollow Notes or Daryl Hall and John Oates on the albums. Uh they reached the U.S. top 40 29 times. Let me ask you this question: how many songs went top five for that? I'm gonna give you a number. You tell me, is it more or less than this number? Hollow notes songs that reach the top five. The number is 15. Is it more or less than 15?

SPEAKER_02 10:24

Uh I would say less.

SPEAKER_00 10:29

It's actually 16. 16 top five hits. That's pretty freaking hard to pull off.

SPEAKER_02 10:35

Well, when I go through their greatest hits, it doesn't seem like there's the possibility of that.

SPEAKER_00 10:41

So they initially, when they first met and started playing together, they lived together. And one of the apartments they lived in, the the mailbox, the the the mailman labeled their mailbox Hollow Notes to like remember, you know, as like a short for who was there. And they just thought that was really cool. So they decided to kind of go by that and their music. Um, I mean, I like their albums. It's got a it's got an interesting, you know. Um, so today on the show, we're gonna talk about their smash hit. In fact, their biggest hit.

SPEAKER_02 11:12

The song we're doing today is Man Eater.

SPEAKER_00 11:16

Hollow Note's biggest hit. And we're also gonna we're we'll dip a little into I can't go for that uh for other reasons. But yeah, we're gonna look at Hollonotes and uh their achievements in this song, which is uh it was a huge hit.

SPEAKER_02 11:32

It was a huge hit, but it was so um 80s coded, right? Like hugely 80s coded because I remember my brother loving them and this song made him not like them anymore. Like he said they sold out. Like Brad was huge about saying bands sold out. He's like all about that. But um, yeah, he stopped liking them because of Maneater. He said, Oh, now they they're giving in to like what the record company wants instead of being true to their. I mean, I think artists like change as they grow and stuff. So maybe they were feeling the style. It doesn't have to be record, you know, yeah, producers dictates.

SPEAKER_00 12:13

Sure, sure.

SPEAKER_02 12:14

All right.

SPEAKER_00 12:15

Before we go to break, just this from a critic. In the early 1980s, Daryl Hall and John Oates really had things figured out. After 10 years and 10 albums, they'd moved through multiple phases and settled on a sound, a kind of creamy futurist doo-wop that suited both them and the moment. They found ways to combine twitchy synthetic new wave with the slick white boy soul that first made them famous and managed that trick without quite betraying either side of the sound.

SPEAKER_02 12:41

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 12:42

For a while, they were an absurd hit machine. So efficient they cranked out a new album almost every year and never quite left the pop charts.

SPEAKER_02 12:51

Good for them.

SPEAKER_00 12:52

They were huge. Alright, we come back. Hall notes, Maneater, and uh The Sound of the 80s.

SPEAKER_02 12:58

Nice.

SPEAKER_00 13:04

You're listening to But I Won't Do That, an irreverent dive into the lyrics, music, and videos of some of our favorite songs.

SPEAKER_02 13:21

So I just remember when I know you probably have something to talk about, but when Man Eater came out, it was so fresh. Yeah. It's like such a so happy. Yeah, you know, I don't know. It's just like such a good time. Oh, here she comes.

SPEAKER_00 13:36

Yeah, it's it's it's got a really cool like groove to it. Like so many of their songs, very snappy.

SPEAKER_02 13:43

Yeah, it's like you just want to oh, like walk and snap at the same time. Like it's something like, you know, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 13:51

It it's interesting because Maneater, like I can't go for that. They're both songs that the band claims are about something different than you think they're about. Right?

SPEAKER_02 14:05

That's weird. I don't know. I mean, if you ask me what it's about, I'm like, it's about a gold digger.

SPEAKER_00 14:10

Yeah. So this from a critic at Classic Rock and Culture, on its surface, the 1982 hit Maneater, would appear to be about a woman of grave consequence. Quote, the lean and hungry type, second line of the song, who won't hesitate to upend a man's life in one fell swoop. But like a number of Holland Oates songs, Maneater isn't meant to be taken so literally. There's another fearsome character that could just as easily rip one's world apart, New York City in the 1980s. It's about greed, avarice, and spoiled riches, John Oates explained in 2014. But we have it in the setting of a girl because it's more relatable. It's something that people can understand.

SPEAKER_02 14:50

Give me a break.

SPEAKER_00 14:52

Another critic says, I don't believe him.

SPEAKER_02 14:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:55

Maneater sure seems like an ode to a gold-digging femme fatale.

SPEAKER_02 14:59

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 14:59

A pop music archetype that's been at the center of plenty of songs. The woman, a lean and hungry type who only comes out at night, is ready to tear apart any guy with more money than self-control.

SPEAKER_02 15:10

Uh yeah, obviously. That song is not about New York City.

SPEAKER_00 15:15

It's with such a such a revisionist take on your own song.

SPEAKER_02 15:19

Like, and is it because some woman said like women always get a bad rap and like rock songs? Like, but it's but also like maybe what you experience as a rock star is this kind of woman.

SPEAKER_00 15:33

Yeah, oh absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 15:35

You know, so I think yeah, I think that's a good point.

SPEAKER_00 15:38

Like, I think when you've entered a certain realm of fame, that's what you attract. Yeah. But you know, it's like athletes are the same way. The types of women that come out for athletes.

SPEAKER_02 15:52

You know how it's the guys that are with their girl from high school, or you know, that like that they knew that person before. Yeah. So they can like trust their love or something like that. You know? There's like, isn't that was Kobe Bryant R R I P, you know, and stuff like that. But Kobe Bryant was with his like high school sweetheart, right? Yeah, but he was a big I know he was a known cheater. He had to give her like these. He had to give her these one ring after another, one of the most notorious like cheating episodes. No, I know, but the thing is, like, he at least he he could have split up with the wife, right? But he stayed with her because there's this love of you knew me when kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 16:39

I think that you have to like if if you and and the what but I think though too, those I and there's also I think a lot of cases of the person who starts with the high school and then they get the taste of fame and they're like, Whoa, hold on a second here, and they split up. There's a lot of examples of that too. I guess. I don't know. And it and I think it's Hall. So Hall Hall, I think, was married early on, maybe not, but his longtime girlfriend, Sarah of Sarah Smile, she goes on to be like the one of their key collaborators. Her songwriting actually is when their career really takes off, is when she joins as a songwriter.

SPEAKER_02 17:21

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 17:22

Yeah. So basically their most popular albums, she's on she's a songwriter. The Sarah of Sarah Smile.

SPEAKER_02 17:29

Oh and then what happened? They broke up.

SPEAKER_00 17:31

I I don't know. They were they were together all through this time period. I don't know whatever eventually happened with them. But um, but so they met, and so it was more than like a romance, it was a collaboration, like that professional collaboration. Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting. Maneater she'll only come out at night, but the lean and hungry type. Nothing is new. I've seen her here before. Watching and waiting. Ooh, she's sitting with you, but her eyes on the door.

SPEAKER_02 17:58

That is the best line. Like when I first heard that line, I'm like, oh my god, because you you're always with that person. That person, you know that person right now. Like, even as a friend.

SPEAKER_03 18:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:11

There's those people that like, what's next? Like, I'm sitting here only to get to my next adventure, but that person is just never present. Like the I don't know. I know. I think of my friends, it's like we're always in a bar or wherever we are, like so focused on each other we don't notice anyone else around us.

SPEAKER_00 18:34

Like that's you get in a good conversation. Yeah, that's like because we'll be in a bar talking about things like man eater.

SPEAKER_02 18:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:41

And we're just so into it.

SPEAKER_02 18:42

Oh, someone could be around and like we won't notice anything. But like there are those people that you feel like okay, like, do you have something else to do? Do you have somewhere else to be? Like when people are just looking. Oh no, sorry, sorry, sorry. You know, it's like I but that that is a type, and but I imagine if because that lean and hungry type is hot, right? Yeah, that's always a hot, good looking person. So like you are sitting with them, like there is something about that male, um like conquest. Like that absolutely so there's it's the reciprocity in this relationship is that he wants to go to bed with her. She knows she has that power, right?

SPEAKER_00 19:31

She has the upper hand.

SPEAKER_02 19:32

And if he's gonna sit there with that, and even if her eyes are on the door, that's on him.

SPEAKER_00 19:39

Yeah. So many have paid to see what you think you're getting for free.

SPEAKER_02 19:44

No, it's like what you think you're getting it for free.

SPEAKER_00 19:47

It's like, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:48

Oh no.

SPEAKER_00 19:49

The woman is wild, a she cat tamed by the purr of a jaguar. Money's the matter. If you're in it for love, you ain't gonna get too far.

SPEAKER_02 19:57

Exactly. Come on. This is not about a gold digger. This is about New York. Give me a break. I don't even see the metaphor.

SPEAKER_00 20:05

No, it's a joke. Um, the woman avarice. The woman is wild, tamed by the purr of a jaguar. Stupid reminds me of we watched the video, which is which is hilarious. And and you've got sort of it hauls in this weird, like half light, half silhouette, and he's turning the camera. But there's this, there's there's actually like a cut to like a jaguar.

SPEAKER_02 20:26

It is the dumbest video.

SPEAKER_00 20:28

It's like Which reminds me of this, this though, um, from a this critic writes In the early MTV oral history, I want my MTV, which I bet is an amazing book. Hall complains that the Panther in the video was both dangerous and way too expensive. Quote, somebody decided that the man-eater video wouldn't be complete unless we had an actual panther, a man-eating animal in the video. It appeared for a second and a half in the video and probably cost 10 grand. The South American Black Panther was wired to the floor so it wouldn't attack everybody. Of course, it got loose in this gigantic studio in LA and went to the rafters 50 feet up. Nobody could get it down. That's when I left the building.

SPEAKER_02 21:11

Oh my god, can you imagine that set? What does it mean it was wired to meant like this is animal abuse, number one.

SPEAKER_00 21:18

Oh god. They got a South American panther into an LA, like some downtown studio.

SPEAKER_02 21:25

What the shit people do for these things. And the in the 80s, there was less even concern about an animal's rights or welfare.

SPEAKER_00 21:32

And just so bad.

SPEAKER_02 21:34

Ugh, there's so much. I don't know why this is a whole nother topic.

SPEAKER_00 21:38

I don't know. But it's so dumb though. It's an idiocy.

SPEAKER_02 21:42

He's right. And the fact that it was um a second and a half.

SPEAKER_00 21:46

Yeah, it just it just it's just passing. It is Oh oh, here she comes. Watch out, boy. She'll chew you up. Here she comes.

SPEAKER_02 21:56

Here she comes. She's a man eater. It's like so um Um but the thing is, okay, so the lyrics, I'm you know, 1982, like I'm sure anyone could understand or get behind the lyrics. But the thing is, what my brother hated was like the boom, boom, boom, boo, boom, boo doom, boom, boom, boom. Like it's the sound.

SPEAKER_00 22:17

Yeah, you know what it is, like it's it's lifted straight from you can't hurry love by the Supremes.

SPEAKER_03 22:25

You can't hear me love.

SPEAKER_00 22:28

And one critic I read said today, they'd be sued out of their fucking mind for that today. But then it was like just you know, it wasn't quite in the consciousness, the sampling thing. It's like lifted straight from the Supremes. Oh, and it's funny, but it's that it is though, that's the thing, that's what made them so popular. They tapped into that RB so authentically, like they had that doo-wop Motown. Like, I think it even says here, wait, in this write-up here, um, John had written a prototype for Maneater and was banging it around with their co-writer.

SPEAKER_02 22:58

Um Edgar Winner.

SPEAKER_00 23:01

Edgar Winner. Edgar Winner, wait. That yeah Edgar Winner, wait, he's sang. Wait, where do we see him before?

SPEAKER_02 23:09

No, because he's He's an albino. But he's like the winter, they he's got a brother, and they're like huge rock guys.

SPEAKER_00 23:16

No, but didn't we do a song with Edgar Winner, though? Okay, no, popular song Frankenstein with Edgar Winter Group. I thought we saw them somewhere, and we were like, where did they come up in our our this podcast?

SPEAKER_02 23:31

Yeah, some.

SPEAKER_00 23:32

No, because he's that he's that fucking weird-looking guy.

SPEAKER_02 23:35

No, I know. And if you see, he's on a lot, he dated Cher. He no, but he is huge. He had his own something like just a jiggle out?

SPEAKER_00 23:50

What? Yeah, he worked with like appearing on all these people, but he came up somewhere though. Why? Listeners, help us out. Where have we talked about him before based on a touch screen?

SPEAKER_02 24:01

Uh no, but I'm like we all have to come back to that.

SPEAKER_00 24:06

But anyway, so he says he's working on this, right? And it was like a reggae song, but then he looked he changed it to a Motown kind of groove. To me, this song is like when you hear the sound, you see the guys, you see the video. It's just like pure 80s. The only thing missing is just like a bag of cocaine. Like it's just so much. Well, yeah, they're big suits and they're so on point.

SPEAKER_02 24:30

Um is there um saxophone in this song?

SPEAKER_00 24:33

Yeah. Okay. Yeah, the saxophone, yeah. The 80s sax is there.

SPEAKER_02 24:36

I just want to make sure.

SPEAKER_00 24:37

Yeah, let me see if there's anything else to say about this. So, okay, so um this is this is from an an article they were inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and the Speezer Critic, and Solon had basically was like, No, he doesn't like them. Um people like them or hate them. Yeah, and he wrote John Hall and Daryl Oates made some of the most harmless, lame, and conservative pop music of the MTV era.

SPEAKER_02 25:02

That's how your vet feels.

SPEAKER_00 25:03

Their music doesn't signify anything. There's no subtext, no worldview, no underlying melancholy or creative exuberance, no real connection to the world outside of the song itself. The music as a result is hermetic, ultimately hollow, a time waster.

SPEAKER_02 25:18

Okay, you know, this is one guy's opinion. It's so funny how so much someone can hate somebody because, like, there's also does he like Sarah's smile?

SPEAKER_00 25:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:31

Does he like Rich Girl?

SPEAKER_00 25:32

Like, well, he's saying he's stuck with the whole band because they were being inducted into the rock and roll.

SPEAKER_02 25:36

Well, okay, so then he doesn't like anything. And I beg to differ. I think that they have like a they hear it had their own sound that maybe they were poaching from RB, but like everyone was poaching slash inspired. Like, can you not be inspired?

SPEAKER_00 25:54

So a couple of things on this. One is I don't know what he really means by no real connection to the world outside of the song. Like, I don't really know what he means by that. I will say this though, in my research, I did see a couple interviews with them. Um, one where they were with Dick Clark on one of his shows, and another one. I have to say, they did come across as significantly dumb individuals, like they had nothing to say, like their answers to questions were so milked toast, I was like, oh wow. So these guys are just pop makers. They're not like there's like, yeah, like we like like one point, like Daryl or no, John Hall is like, yeah, you know, I mean, like, making me making money is great. We love making money. Well, we also hope that our songs have you know more meaning than that, too. I mean, it was just like, oh my god, have you guys ever thought about what's going on? So they're dumb and boring.

SPEAKER_02 26:44

Yeah, really bad. Like, I don't like boring like really bad at least be interesting, even if you're a little weird or whatever, like be interesting. Like, yeah, anyone would love to hang out with Icky Pop all day or something. You know what I mean? But to hang out with these guys if they're boring and like we're glad to make money. Ugh. Yeah, it's not bad. I'm sure Yvette's right.

SPEAKER_00 27:06

Hitmakers absolute hitmakers, but maybe not, but maybe not the most interesting people in the world. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:12

But you know what? Okay, I'm just gonna this is my take on interesting people. I think that interesting people, the difference between being interesting or not is being truthful. Because I think everyone has everyone is kind of interesting. Like people are interesting, but only when they are honest with who they are. Like, because we're all they have flaws, we have faults, we have and like weird opinions, or maybe you drool, or like whatever your thing is, right? All these weird little idiosyncrasies make you interesting, but when people are like quote unquote vanilla, I think people try to be vanilla, like, but no one's truly vanilla, are they? I feel like you could always dig under. It's true though, I've met very boring people.

SPEAKER_00 28:09

Someone someone I used to know said, you know who gets bored? Boring people, you know, and and and his point being like you have to just be interested in stuff, yeah. All the time. There's some. And I think and I think curiosity is a big part of like how vanilla someone is or isn't. You know, like if you have genuine curiosity about things, you're never gonna be boring.

SPEAKER_02 28:32

There is like I'm always thinking, like, I I there's so many books in the world that I will never read. Oh god, I don't know. You know what I mean about that, yeah. Yeah, so it's like there's so much to know. There's and I want to know it all, but there's not a possibility of that. But like, what can I read and consume and know about this? Yeah, even that I know about it already or a little bit. Like, I don't really you're very good at like actually storing the knowledge.

SPEAKER_00 29:05

But yeah, but that's overrated. I mean, you like you're you are extremely intellectually curious. It's really one of the things that attracted me to you when we first met. I mean, you you you're very curious. You listen to a lot, you yeah, you listen to books more than you read them, which is great. You listen to a lot of books, you listen to podcasts, you just love like just learning about all types of things. You know, and I think that's that is in a way I think one of the most valuable traits as a human. I think when you meet someone that's boring, often the reason is because they just they're not curious about things. Yeah, yeah. And so they don't have a range of things to talk about, like because they've never wondered about those things, not because they don't know them, they've never wondered. There's a lot of people in the world you have a passing or a shallow conversation with, and you might come away going, that person was boring, but they're not really. I mean the people you actually had a chance to talk with. Yes, and you come away going, Holy shit, yeah, that person. It's probably because they're not curious about anything.

SPEAKER_02 30:07

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 30:08

Like, fuck, like get curious. Can we talk about the album covers? Yes, that's their album covers are a problem. They're they are a terrible problem. So let's talk about Maneater is on the album H2O.

SPEAKER_02 30:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:21

Here's let's see, I think this is it. Here's the cover of H2O.

SPEAKER_02 30:24

They're so sweaty, it's disgusting. But the sweat is like acne-inducing. It's it's just it's a it's also so hot looking.

SPEAKER_00 30:32

Like with the red background. It looks like they're in the sauna. So for listeners, that it's you're seeing their profiles and their forehead, almost almost forehead to forehead. Sweaty and the background's red. So it like to Becky's point, it's like they're in a sauna. And and it's horrible.

SPEAKER_02 30:50

But it you so okay, it's like the it could look like, oh, truly, they're just sprayed with an Evian bottle. No, there's something about the sweat that's on them. It's like they had a layer of olive oil on their skin. And then they sprayed like water.

SPEAKER_00 31:07

Look, there's water dripping off their chins.

SPEAKER_02 31:10

Off of oily faces. It's so gross.

SPEAKER_00 31:13

It's so gross. It's so gross. Their album covers are a problem. So the one that we've often tripped out on is the the it's called the Daryl Hall and John Oates is the name of the album, often called the Silver Album from a few years before this. Um, and it's it's it was shot by one of David Bowie's photographers, which makes a hell of a lot of sense when you see it. Glamrock. Uh Daryl Hall actually said he turned out looking like the kind of woman he hoped to meet one day.

SPEAKER_02 31:44

He looks like Daryl Hannah. Not Daryl Hall.

SPEAKER_00 31:51

It's it's glam rock, gender bending. I will say this though. One critic I read said that to their credit, there was a lot of uh sort of almost homophobia thrown at them over this, and they just were like, whatever, dude. This is what you know, they didn't they didn't try to say no, no, no, no. We're not, you know, they were like, they just I know, I respect them for that.

SPEAKER_02 32:12

But also, so John Oak.

SPEAKER_00 32:14

What's happening here though?

SPEAKER_02 32:15

Doesn't John that's like the blush that we wore in the 80s. This is that's you used to do blush, so even the blush sponge applicator was like this little straight across thing that you were supposed to like straight you would scrape it into your blush pad and then just like and you would just have these lines on your face. Oh yeah, I've seen that. So that's what this is, but also doesn't he look like um what's his name who's like in so much trouble, British um oh, um The comedian? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:49

Doesn't he?

SPEAKER_00 32:50

In that kind of he can't looks like that guy.

SPEAKER_02 32:52

Yeah, that guy. I mean, he has such a what is his name?

SPEAKER_00 32:57

No, it's it's it's it's not great. There are covers. There's a couple others I could show you, but we're gonna go to a break. But first, let's look at the cover of Private Eyes, because on Private Eyes was the song I Can't Go For That.

SPEAKER_02 33:08

Before we go there, can I just say about this? What is this called, Daryl Hall, John Oates? This album covers how I always want to look in any pictures of myself. I just want to be like two eyes, a kind of a shape of a nose, and a pretty mouth. I don't want to see one wrinkly.

SPEAKER_00 33:25

Airbrushed to infinity.

SPEAKER_02 33:27

I want, but this is also overexposed so that you can only see these like dark features. So that's how I want to look. Okay.

unknown 33:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 33:35

I like that.

SPEAKER_00 33:36

Like like ex machina or something.

SPEAKER_02 33:39

Like I like it.

SPEAKER_00 33:40

All right. So we're gonna take a break and we're gonna come back and talk about um Becky's already left to get the champagne.

SPEAKER_02 33:47

I forgot we were. This is the cover of private eyes.

SPEAKER_00 33:50

This is the cover of private eyes. Also not great.

SPEAKER_02 33:53

Like one head.

SPEAKER_00 33:54

Like like a what is it? Like pixelated. Or or what is called a dot?

SPEAKER_02 33:59

Stipple.

SPEAKER_00 33:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:00

It's called stipple. Stipple art when you do sit with a bunch of dots.

SPEAKER_00 34:04

Thank you. It's it's bad. Um and we're gonna come back and talk talk about uh I can't go for that. No can do.

SPEAKER_01 34:13

No can do it.

SPEAKER_00 34:33

We are back. Um we left off looking at the Private Eyes, which I think was also the the uh the title track, I think was one of their number ones. I think they had six number one hits.

SPEAKER_02 34:48

My brother also hated that song. I loved it. Um I do love any mystery thing. So the idea of private eyes also feels like a mystery.

SPEAKER_00 35:00

Now, from that album was I Can't Go for That, which we've always talked about. Yeah, because the title of our podcast, taken from the Meat Loaf song, I Do Anything for Love, but I won't do that. And what the fuck is that? I can't go for that. What's that?

SPEAKER_02 35:15

Um Yeah, I can't go for that. Oh, uh no can do. He's like basically it's the same kind of thing in that song. They're saying, Oh, I'll do anything, anything, mind you, but you want me to. Oh, but I can't go for that. Oh, sir, excuse me. It's like tapping on the shoulder. If you can't go for that, then you would not do anything. It's so like, don't even say the first part if you don't mean the second part. It's yeah, that kind of thing, like, just is so I don't know why I get so annoyed.

SPEAKER_00 35:52

One of the worst videos I've ever seen. I was surprised because we've seen some, we have seen some shit videos in this video.

SPEAKER_02 36:00

I mean, do you think it's worse than that journey one?

SPEAKER_00 36:04

I don't separate ways. Yeah, separate ways. I have to say one A. One B though. I mean, we've I've joked about this. I've probably said his line many times on this podcast. Did they have $50 to make this video? This one, did they have $50 to make this video? No, it is so fucking cheap.

SPEAKER_02 36:23

It's free. This is like, this is like their friend did it. The lighting is like the sun, like glaring off the top of their bad hair.

SPEAKER_00 36:33

It's just, they're just the three of them. So you've got Hollow Notes and then G.E. Smith, who, if you watch as he became the SNL band uh house band leader. If you can think of SNL. Yeah, think of SNL in the 90s, the blonde guy with the ponytail, G.E. Smith. Pretty cool looking guy, I always thought. He was in Hollow Notes first. And it's the three of them, just in a dark room with a bright spotlight, just lip-syncing the song.

SPEAKER_02 36:57

It's so fucking listen, the the broad, the bright spotlight that you're talking about is shining like from behind the angle is the top of the top of their head. The angle is so weird, and then the hand that's playing the synthesizer in it. Yeah, they insist fingers look all long and like sausages and they insist on showing the person playing the synthesizer.

SPEAKER_00 37:19

Like, in case, like, were you wondering what instrument made this sound?

SPEAKER_02 37:22

I'm just trying to learn that.

SPEAKER_00 37:24

Yeah, maybe that's it.

SPEAKER_02 37:25

But anyway, okay, moving on.

SPEAKER_00 37:26

No, it's really bad. But hold on, I got something here about this song. Um so here we go. So, again, about does what is the song actually about? Well, so Hall said, I felt very manipulated at the time by management in the record business, like a pawn. It makes sense. Hollow Notes had been making records together for nearly a decade and privatized their tenth album. They had good times, they'd had dry stretches, they'd bounce from label to label, they made compromises, and they they later regretted. They'd found their greatest success only when they'd seize artistic control of their records. So he basically so I this is interesting. By the early 80s, Hall was basically pushing the music business around, put doing whatever he wanted, he couldn't lose. It's possible Hall and those were the biggest act in the world during the pre-thriller moment.

SPEAKER_02 38:18

How crazy is that?

SPEAKER_00 38:20

That's quite a statement. And so basically what he was saying was to the record labels, this is what he said it was about. I can't go, I I will not do whatever you want. Like, I'll I'll to a point I'll make the record you want. But I'm not just gonna make whatever record you say.

SPEAKER_02 38:40

Yeah, but that's not the way it's written. It's like I will do anything that you want me to. So anything that you want me to, but I can't go for that. So it's again, it always is anal sex or something. Like, I don't know. It always goes to something. It always goes. It always goes there. You can't think like I can't go for that is like I can't go for like, you know, making dinner on Saturday night. Like, I don't know what some mundane, like it's gotta be something like like you're promising your love. I love you so much, I love you eternally, whatever. And then this, do you love me so much that you'll strap on? You know, I don't know. Like it just seems like it goes dark.

SPEAKER_00 39:33

No, it always, well, of course. When you hear somebody say, I I'll do anything but that, your mind out of application. Yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_02 39:39

I don't care who he's probably not as dark as me, but like, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 39:44

No, no, that's where people's mind goes. I do like this. I do like this though. Sorry, this is a quick aside. So music, a music critic, yeah, who I have to say, I use his stuff a lot. Yes. And I emailed him this morning and said, You should come on our podcast. And he immediately emailed back and said, He'll join us.

SPEAKER_02 40:00

That's so exciting. I hope that's true. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 40:02

Um, at the end of this write-up of I can't go for that, in parentheses, he writes, in the biography Dangerous Dreams, uh, this writer Nick Toshes writes that John Hall called himself, quote, the head soul brother in the US. And the critic ends with, I can't go for that. Like, calm down.

SPEAKER_02 40:24

You are not the head soul brother. You're not, you can't even be related to soul, like in that way.

SPEAKER_00 40:30

Yeah, come on, you're you're white, first of all. Just calm down. You can be you can be a successful white soul singer, you're not the head soul brother.

SPEAKER_02 40:36

Because let's just you, yeah, you are po poaching. You are poaching. They he's poaching. Someone else had the vibe in the original sound that he likes.

SPEAKER_03 40:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:48

I I appreciate that that's your inspo, but you can't say I'm the head soul brother. No, just stop. Don't say things like that. Don't say things like that.

SPEAKER_00 40:58

No. Let's go to the charts. Yes. Here we come to the end. 1982. Maneater spent four weeks at number one. It was Holland Oates' biggest hit ever from 1982. Where did it end up? I have not looked at this yet.

SPEAKER_02 41:14

Oh, good. What do you think?

SPEAKER_00 41:16

I mean, I'm gonna I I'm believing, I'm thinking top five.

SPEAKER_02 41:19

Yeah, me too.

SPEAKER_00 41:20

I was gonna say four like a top five hit. So I'll go, I'll go with I'll go with three. Uh let's see.

SPEAKER_02 41:26

Um Physical Olivia Newton John's number one.

SPEAKER_00 41:31

Eye of the Tiger.

SPEAKER_02 41:32

Number two, Survivor.

SPEAKER_00 41:34

I love rock and roll.

SPEAKER_02 41:35

Joan Jet, Ebony and the Ivory Centerfold. Um Don't You Want Me by the Humanly. God, this what a cool list. That's like a very diverse list.

SPEAKER_00 41:48

So I can't go for that. No, because they think is they so that was the previous year it went over because they were basically putting out an album a year. So I can't go for that. Comes in at number 15.

SPEAKER_02 42:02

What about Man Eater?

SPEAKER_00 42:03

Hold on. Private eyes. Oh, so it's actually the previous year is 44. Did it in a minute, so maybe it was the next year it charted because it was, but it came out in December. Okay. Man, let's stick with 82 for a second, though, because this is just so good.

SPEAKER_02 42:21

Wait, when did it come out? 82.

SPEAKER_00 42:23

December of 82. Okay. So maybe he's 83. Okay, but let's stick with 82 for a second because this is just so good. Centerfold, do you want me? Jack and Diane.

SPEAKER_02 42:32

Oh my god, Abracadabra.

SPEAKER_00 42:33

It's so good. I hate the C. Miller band. But look, I love John Cougar. Like, he was called Cougar then, not Mellon Camp. Jack and Diane hurts so good, goes 7-8. What? Tainted Love at 11.

SPEAKER_02 42:46

Tainted Love, Soft Salf.

SPEAKER_00 42:48

Speaking of Motown, do you remember the original version of Tainted Love?

SPEAKER_02 42:51

No.

SPEAKER_00 42:52

The original version segues into Where Did Our Love Go by The Supremes.

SPEAKER_02 42:58

I have never.

SPEAKER_00 42:59

Do you remember that? It's so cool.

SPEAKER_02 43:00

I love Where Did Our Love Go.

SPEAKER_00 43:03

It transitions. The end, they keep the same thing. Yes. Baby, baby.

SPEAKER_02 43:10

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 43:10

Yes, Soft Cell did that. That's a very cool.

SPEAKER_02 43:12

I know that. I have heard that. But wait, Chariots of Fire is on here.

SPEAKER_00 43:20

Do you know what that is? Are there lyrics to that?

SPEAKER_02 43:27

But people were listening to that.

SPEAKER_00 43:29

On the radio?

SPEAKER_02 43:30

What the heck?

SPEAKER_00 43:31

What is hardened? Oh, hardened my heart.

SPEAKER_02 43:35

Gonna swallow my tears.

SPEAKER_00 43:37

Todo. Rosanna.

SPEAKER_02 43:38

Oh my god, what?

SPEAKER_00 43:39

Tommy Two Tone.

SPEAKER_02 43:41

There are some absolutely Jenny 8675309.

SPEAKER_00 43:44

Gems on this foreigner waiting on a girl like you. Come on.

SPEAKER_02 43:48

Don't talk to Don't talk to strangers. Fuck that. What's the sweetest thing I've ever known by Juice Newton?

SPEAKER_00 43:57

Juice Newton. Sure. Okay, let's go to 83.

SPEAKER_02 44:01

Shake it up by the cards.

SPEAKER_00 44:02

Let's go to all of that song. Let's go to 83. Because surely this is where that song lands up.

SPEAKER_02 44:09

Man eater number seven.

SPEAKER_00 44:11

Number seven for 1983.

SPEAKER_02 44:13

So it must have been a late release, right? Every breath you take is number one. Number one.

SPEAKER_00 44:19

Billy Jean. Number two. Flash Dance.

SPEAKER_02 44:22

Number three, what a feeling. What a feeling. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:26

Down under the total eclipse of the heart. We've been here.

SPEAKER_02 44:30

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:31

She's maniac.

SPEAKER_02 44:34

Okay, we got flash dance was just came out.

SPEAKER_00 44:36

Michael Cembello? Who the fuck is this guy? He's saying maniac? Do you know this guy?

SPEAKER_02 44:41

No.

SPEAKER_00 44:41

Hold on. I don't know. Let's have a look. Do we have a bearded man?

SPEAKER_01 44:47

Look at this guy. He was born in Andmore.

SPEAKER_00 44:53

This is great. Nominated for Academy Award and Golden Globe for Maniac. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 44:59

She's a maniac.

SPEAKER_00 45:01

Maniac on the Wow, he's one of the core artists on Songs on the Key of Life. One of Stevie Wonder's biggest heavens. So he's one of these session guys. He's like a Todo guy that just goes on to have a hit. I love that.

SPEAKER_02 45:15

Okay. Okay. Or like Michael Sembello. Well, he has a house on Bellagio.

SPEAKER_03 45:23

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 45:25

Look at, is that Sting? Yeah, Sting. Yeah, but he also that never had that hair. You know, his glove, his glove flex right there is very OJ.

SPEAKER_00 45:37

We know uh uh Drake, Drake's new album is called Iceman, and he bought one of these, he bought one of these like 150 grand for one of these gloves.

SPEAKER_02 45:48

That seems cheap.

SPEAKER_00 45:51

The MJ estate needs the money, I don't know. No, but 150,000 for I guess maybe but maybe he's a lot of them, yeah. Yeah, yeah. What do you make of MJ's glasses?

SPEAKER_02 46:02

I'm not a fan.

SPEAKER_00 46:04

Well, how would you describe them? So that's really good a picture of Michael Jackson in his heyday with a bejeweled sash and gloves.

SPEAKER_02 46:11

But I have to say, Phoebe Philo and a lot of designers right now sent these quote unquote like bug eye glasses down the runway for um like Is that bug eye? Yeah, it's like that it's a it's like that round, like yeah, if you're a fly, your eyes kind of have this like bug eye shape where they're like really kind of close together but separated.

SPEAKER_03 46:35

Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 46:36

Like that's kind of the bug eye glasses. Okay. These glasses are kind of bug-eyed, but it's also they're aviator slash aviator.

SPEAKER_00 46:45

That's what I was thinking, aviator.

SPEAKER_02 46:46

They're like sort of, but they're an aviator without a frame. Like I know that an aviator is like a clean frame, but these these are like the bug meets the aviator. I don't know what that is.

SPEAKER_00 46:58

The glove, the glove to me, what did what do you make of the one the one glove?

SPEAKER_02 47:02

Yeah, what's up with one glove? I I love gloves.

SPEAKER_00 47:05

Luke Skywalker did the one glove very famously. Wow, because you know his hand. His hand was you know, he had to appreciate it. Yeah, he's but I mean, what do you think of the one glove look?

SPEAKER_02 47:15

I I just think like it reminds me of like LL Cool J and his one like roll-up thing. It's like there's certain things where you're you're a person who's asymmetric.

SPEAKER_00 47:27

Asymmetric.

SPEAKER_02 47:28

So there's something about that that I appreciate on any level. Like symmetry is so perfect, yeah. Or something. And like if you're asymmetry, you know, you're asymmetric, you're like, I reject that perfection or that that's not real. Yeah, and you're like, I'm a one glove guy, or I'm a like LL Cool J, I'm rolling F1 panther. Like, like there's something about it that I really love and appreciate.

SPEAKER_00 47:59

Well, that was Walking with a Panther.

SPEAKER_02 48:00

What's that?

SPEAKER_00 48:01

Nice little close of circle, LL Cool J with the one leg up. His album Walking with a Panther. Hopefully, not the same Panther that got into the rafters.

SPEAKER_02 48:08

Right. I love LL Coljay.

SPEAKER_00 48:11

Yeah, he's cool. All right, we're gonna close it there. The number 100 song for the year in 1983, by the way, was Fall in Love with Me by Earth, Wind and Fire.

SPEAKER_02 48:20

And then Joe Jackson.

SPEAKER_00 48:21

This song and Asia. This this song, I bet. I guarantee this song is fucking terrible. Don't Cry by Asia coming in at number 98 for the year. For sure. Terrible. It's terrible.

SPEAKER_02 48:32

But I probably really because I loved Asia. I did. I loved Asia. The heat of the moment. I'm sorry. The heat of the moment is loved that song.

SPEAKER_00 48:44

All right. We're gonna leave you there, everybody. Hope you enjoyed. Oh, but look at the show. Go listen to some hollows.

SPEAKER_02 48:52

That's such a chance. Love Tom Petty.

SPEAKER_00 48:55

All right, we're gonna leave you there, folks. Go and listen to some Holland Outs.

SPEAKER_02 48:58

Yeah, Holland Oats is great. Listen to the greatest hits and like drink a glass of wine and just chill, sit outside, get some sun, get some vitamin D.

SPEAKER_00 49:08

Summer's here.

SPEAKER_02 49:08

We love you. Thank you for listening to us if you do.

SPEAKER_00 49:12

Love you, Petty.

SPEAKER_02 49:13

We do.