But I Won't Do That
Where we side eye the lyrics and videos of some of our favorite songs
But I Won't Do That
Bad Lyrics (with Zuzu West)
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In which Becky and Dan talk about the good, the bad, and the ugly of lyrics with Zuzu West, an LA-based singer-songwriter. They talk about what's inspired Zuzu's songwriting and what she thinks makes for strong lyrics before getting to some really important questions: Did Desiree spend more than two minutes on the lyrics to Life? Does anyone call Shakespeare "Billy"? Should some songs have a "written by a man" disclaimer?
We'd love to hear from you! Leave a comment on Youtube, Spotify, or email as at butiwontpod@gmail.com
Artwork: Billi Rakov
Music Credits: LonPeakMusic and Vodovoz Music Production
You're listening to, but I won't do that. An irreverent dive into the lyrics, music, and videos of some of our favorite songs. Alright. Let's do it. Hi. Hi. Welcome.
SPEAKER_00Thank you. Welcome to you.
SPEAKER_09Welcome to you. Welcome to another episode.
SPEAKER_00Cheers. Cheers from across the room.
SPEAKER_09And oh what? Another voice. Special guest on the podcast today.
SPEAKER_06Mm-hmm. So Zuzu is a singer, songwriter. She's also my work colleague who is awesome and amazing. What's coming together? And her like songs are amazing. I love listening to her good. I've listened to your voice and your lyrics when I'm getting ready in the morning. I'm like, yes, this is so cool. Oh, that's so sweet. So, anyway, welcome, Zuzu. Is there anything you would like to say?
SPEAKER_08Well, I well, I want we want to hear about you, Zuzu. Introduce yourself and about I want to hear about your music.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I uh grew up in Northern California, so spent a good amount of time up there in the non-Socal region. Where was it? Uh Sacramento. Oh yeah. So the state capital. You can't beat it. Um Ladybird. Ladybird.
SPEAKER_09But do people say Sacktown?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, people say ball sack. Uh wacky sacky, yeah. Yeah, the meth capital of California, whatever. I'm a lovely.
SPEAKER_08Oh, the Central Valley is just, you know, everything you'd want.
SPEAKER_01There's a lot of beauty and a lot of creativity in Sacramento, though, that I I do miss um being kind of in Southern California. Um my parents are both very creative people, so I I grew up going to a Waldorf school. But yeah, I've just I grew up kind of being surrounded by art and music and um played piano my whole life. My parents were super interested in getting me to try every sort of sport music. Um so yeah, it just it just never left my body.
SPEAKER_09When do you record your first music?
SPEAKER_01When?
SPEAKER_09Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I have quite a few songs on Spotify currently, a lot of which most of which are collaborations with my friends, so it's kind of my lyrics, their style of music, and you know, kind of a motion of of both of our our sort of styles. Um I was in high school though when I first started having interest in recording. Um and I was gifted a podcast mic, very similar to that one, except it was the Oh, the snowball. The snowball. It was the snowball. It was my dad's friend, and he was like, Oh, we gotta get this chick like recording. Like, here I have this piece of equipment, like give it to her and let's see what she does with it. So I kind of just went to work in I was probably fifteen, sixteen. Oh my god, that's so awesome. Started like just kind of figuring it out on my own, watching YouTube, and I didn't really learn much about mixing and mastering then, but ultimately I went to college for music production and I got a studio internship in Santa Cruz while I was working there. So I was around all of that and kind of perfected perfected my craft um up until now. Yeah.
SPEAKER_08I'd love to talk music production with you. Not right now, that anymore, but I would love to talk about that. Yeah, for sure. That's cool.
SPEAKER_06Um that's so cool. On top of the fact that you have a beautiful voice.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, you do.
SPEAKER_06You know, like what a like a pairing that what a good thing to go after this music production when you have such a good voice.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, for sure. I didn't graduate college by any means, but I I set out to, you know, kind of just learn as much as I could, as much as I had the mental capacity to at that time, because it was also during COVID. Um part of my college was during COVID. A lot of it wasn't. Um but yeah, there was a lot of like self self-discovery and through music, and you know, I just wanted to learn as much as I could. Um not really go for any sort of like path. I just took all the classes I could take and learned as much as I could, and I was like, deuces, I'm going to LA.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_06That's why you're so well-rounded.
SPEAKER_01Because I didn't graduate college.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, probably. No, I just think that also like what happened to apprenticeships? You know what I mean? Like, everyone is so you have to have a degree and everything. There, but an apprentice is somebody who learns experientially. You follow someone around for like whatever, seven years or something, and you're like you really learn it like in your bones, more than like, this is a project I want you to do that is never in real life, and you know, I don't know.
SPEAKER_01I just think I think that there's a lot of yeah, I mean, it's not as like well known nowadays, but what I found in college and making the connections that I've made up until now at 26 years, um I've kind of made people my apprentice or you know, my mentors or whatever in a way. Like we as long as you're curious and you're asking questions and you know that the people you're asking the questions to aren't you know gonna hold you back in any way and and kind of give you that opportunity to learn.
SPEAKER_08Who's your biggest inspiration as a songwriter? Or a singer. Maybe it's the same.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, um I mean I my dad is huge in music and always has been, has been in various bands and introduced me to a lot of music growing up, so that question's kind of hard to answer, and I've been asked it because I've got to do that.
SPEAKER_08You want to throw one out there?
SPEAKER_01Well, yeah, and and I've thought about it. Um I don't I just you know, it's like there's too many to choose from, but the one that always comes to mind is Amy Winehouse. I like you know, and so many people are like, oh Amy, Amy's my inspiration. Like maybe it's mainstream, maybe it's you know, just the fact that she's that good.
SPEAKER_09I mean, she's inspired a lot of fucking people.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, exactly. Like I spent my whole like adolescent life just obsessed with the Frank album.
SPEAKER_03Oh my god.
SPEAKER_01Not even like back to black, like I just I loved the jazz.
SPEAKER_09And that fuck Fuck Me Pumps is one of my all-time favorite songs.
SPEAKER_01Dude, and mo Moody's Mood for Love, that there's just there's so much beauty and so much chaos and so much ugly and wonderful.
SPEAKER_09She was like 19 too on that album.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_09There's a there's this neighborhood in uh maybe it's where she's from in London, but you go and there's a they there's a statue to her. She was so little.
SPEAKER_03Was she?
SPEAKER_09She was so small. I guess it's like a replica of her. I mean her they have I think they gave her the beehive, like in the statue. The beehive adds like 30% to her height. She was such a small person, like like short, small, and but that voice, like to come out of a body that small. I think it's crazy.
SPEAKER_01It's like when people ask me how tall I am, I go, five seven with Afro. She probably was five foot with beehive.
SPEAKER_08That's about right, yeah.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, I think you're right. So then it made her five seven for sure. That was another five inches.
SPEAKER_09Yeah. Well, Zuzu, we're so happy you're here. You know, today we're talking about our goal is to talk about lyrics. Yeah, absolutely. Right? Like, and I'm just so curious to hear from you. Like, I guess I have a few questions at the beginning we can talk about, but like what to you, like, what makes good lyrics, like quality lyrics, what makes horrible lyrics? You know, and then but then I guess the other part is like, because this is where we sort of the discussion for us started was how really shitty lyrics can be elevated by good music. Yeah, and there's a lot of pop songs where you're like, this is such a jam or this is such a sweet song, and then you listen to the lyrics and you're like, these lyrics are so fucking bad. But you don't even realize because you like the music. Yeah. You know, and like, so anyway, the kind of things we want to explore. But I maybe from the beginning, before we get into some specifics, I'm just curious, like, when you write lyrics, how do you approach it? And what to you makes like good lyrics? I mean, it's such a non-songwriter question. What's a good lyric? But like But I mean, like, as someone who writes music.
SPEAKER_06Is there even a thing of it?
SPEAKER_09Well, no, it is a purely well, this whole podcast is subjective as well. We don't know anything. But I mean, it's all subjective, but I mean, like, what do you like what do you think about it?
SPEAKER_01I mean, obviously, upon listening to music, there are lyrics that I kind of gravitate towards the more uncommon, the more detailed and you know, kind of nuanced lyrics are what I'm typically drawn to. Um, and also enunciation has everything to do with like how the lyrics move through the song, like how you're saying each word. I focus a lot on that kind of aspect of music, you know, how things are rhyming, if there's rhyming, you know, like where the story is going throughout the whole thing, despite what you're saying, you know, it can be ugly and gross and be the most beautiful thing you've ever heard. Um but as a lyricist myself, I I like despise music that is just boring. Like basic, what everyone else is saying, you know, like I mean, it's all surrounded by love too, and I think that there's there's so much to say about that human feeling that doesn't involve you and be you know, it's like there's so many different ways and more complex feelings that arise when I write music about the feeling of love that I just I think that the songs on the radio don't really encompass as much.
SPEAKER_06Such a good point.
SPEAKER_09Let me let me let me give you this. So this is um the Guardian newspaper in the UK a few years ago that it had a piece about what makes good lyrics. And they categorized, they came up with some some categories emotionally devastating.
SPEAKER_06Oh, love that. Yeah, love, yes, witty.
SPEAKER_09Okay, cultural or political, like strongly cultural or political, or this one that I absolutely love. Nonsense that somehow sounds like an answer to all the world's problems.
SPEAKER_06We have no bananas.
SPEAKER_09No, but here's the example, and I have to say this is the best example of a song that probably in the last 30 years has never had more people turn it up while also asking, what the fuck? The killer singing, I got soul, but I'm not a soldier.
SPEAKER_01I love that song.
SPEAKER_09That song is so great, but Yeah, what on earth?
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_09Like, I mean, would you like do any of those categories resonate with you, Zuzu? Like emotionally devastating, witty, culture political. I mean, cultural political, you know, I'm thinking of like you got Bob Dylan, you got, you know, um Rage Against the Machine, like where they're just like the lyrics are just hit. They're not like you know, they they they somehow cut through all the noise and make you really think something about um the moment you're in, or fucking nonsense that somehow sounds amazing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean I I think of like Paul Simon too, and in in those that list of people. Yeah, just like but it's such a unique way to describe these kinds of you know instances. Um yeah, I definitely resonate with those. I mean, I think that there's that's a good place to start for sure. And thank you to them for publishing giving us content for this podcast.
SPEAKER_06Do they have uh um are there do they also say songs on that list?
SPEAKER_09They had some examples, like for like uh emotionally devastating, they used um don't think twice, it's all right by Bob Dylan, right? You just kind of wasted my precious time, I know, right? So good. Um, you know, like witty, like they mentioned the line from Everything But the Girl, right? This line, like, could you be dead? You always were two steps ahead, which is a pretty freaking awesome line. Public enemy they mention, and political. Um, they mention the killers, yeah.
SPEAKER_06Um my emotionally devastating would be wasted time by the Eagles.
SPEAKER_09Yeah, the Eagles.
SPEAKER_06I I never thought you'd be alone this far down the line. I know what's been on your mind. You're afraid it's all been wasted time. Like right now, I have two. Like I just have you heard of Lizzie McAlpine?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01She has the most emotionally devastating music. I love emotionally devastating music. She sings songs in ways that I couldn't have even imagined a song to sound like. But also in bringing up kind of the way that people say the words that they're saying in a in a song, she just has a whole different perspective on it. And I think that she's probably one of the most, aside from Amy Winehouse, inspiring artists that I certainly take after lyrically. Um but yeah, she I mean she's incredible. That's just what I was thinking of when we are discussing emotionally devastating, because it's it's horrible. But you're like, oh I love it so much and I just wanted to listen to it over and over and over again before I go to bed.
SPEAKER_09I mean, emotionally devastating is probably though the type of music that's the most it's the trickiest, I think. Like how much bad music has been made riding that train.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_09Because the difference between strong lyrics that are emotionally devastating and bad lyrics that are trying to be, that line is very You ought to know. You ought to know.
SPEAKER_06Strong lyrics, right? Sure. Like what's the bad version?
SPEAKER_09Um, I mean, there's a lot of examples. I mean, I think I like I think today my the one that pops into my mind is someone like Gracie Abrams. I think she is like trying so hard.
SPEAKER_06So chic.
SPEAKER_09Oh well, I don't know about her fashion, but her lyrics are just it's like, alright, I get it, but yes, this is good.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I don't like her.
SPEAKER_08No, no, I don't either.
SPEAKER_01Oh, wow. I think it's unique, and I think that it brings out a different side of music, but it to me feels try-hard. And Gracie Abrams, if you see this, I'm so sorry.
SPEAKER_06Gracie, I think you're so chic. I love your haircut and the way you do your makeup.
SPEAKER_09Okay, she thinks you're chic. She's sorry she said that, Gracie. I'm not sorry, I said that. So we'll we'll we'll go there. Um, okay, let's take a break. We need more champs. We're gonna come back and talk about bad lyrics.
SPEAKER_06I can't.
SPEAKER_09Artists and songs that just missed the mark.
SPEAKER_06I have something that I don't know if you guys will. We're back.
SPEAKER_09We're just congratulating ourselves and our guests on a strong first 12 minutes or whatever it's been.
SPEAKER_06And also that we know Zusia will be famous one day and it's like a feather in our cap.
SPEAKER_09Obviously.
SPEAKER_06That she's on our podcast as her first pod.
SPEAKER_09Okay, so The Guardian gave three or four categories. I wanna I want to go with three. I want to I came up with three categories of bad lyrics. Okay. And I kind of want to hear your what you think about these, okay? I get some examples too.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_09Okay, here we go.
SPEAKER_06Okay.
SPEAKER_09Category number one self-serious.
SPEAKER_06Ernest.
SPEAKER_09Ernest, too serious.
SPEAKER_06Too earnest.
SPEAKER_09And going off our last episode about Creed, I give you example number one. Nickelback, how you remind me.
SPEAKER_07Oh.
SPEAKER_09Which begins with the lyrics. Never made it as a wise man. I couldn't cut it as a blind man stealing. Tired of living like a blind man. I'm sick of sight without the sense of feeling.
SPEAKER_05No.
SPEAKER_09My second one is just inane. Like, just just so dumb. This one, this is a song actually is on my list for songs we could do.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_09The 1990 late 90s hit by LFO called Summer Girls. Remember the song? The chorus went, I like the girls that wear Abercrombie, me and Fitch. Oh, which is problem number one. If you're name-dropping that brand. But they had listen listen to this line. I did not realize these lyrics were in that song. Billy Shakespeare wrote a whole bunch of sonnets. Call me Willy Whistle, because I can't speak, baby. Something in your eyes went and drove me crazy. Now I can't forget you, and it makes me mad.
SPEAKER_06What? What the hell?
SPEAKER_09I mean, are you swooning?
SPEAKER_06That is inane.
SPEAKER_09Exoinane.
SPEAKER_06But also don't call him Billy. Billy Shakespeare. You can't. You can't. You you do not have no.
unknownNo.
SPEAKER_09Unbelievable. And then my last category, maybe like one of the biggest of all, is just schmaltz. Yeah, schmaltz. Schmaltz.
SPEAKER_06What does that mean?
SPEAKER_09I'm gonna go for low hanging. Schmaltz.
SPEAKER_06She said, what does that mean?
SPEAKER_09Oh schmaltz, uh sappy. Oh, okay. Like I would go for low-hanging fruit on this one, a song we did. Brian Adams, everything I do, I do it for you.
SPEAKER_03Everything I do.
SPEAKER_09Right. I containing the line, I die for you. And this line, which I didn't realize, there's no love like your love, and no other could give more love.
SPEAKER_04Sick.
SPEAKER_09Like there's no there's no love. Like there's no rhyme. I mean, I just love rhyming with love.
SPEAKER_06But also he when he said like how he said on the pod, I'll die for you, would you? No one is dying.
SPEAKER_09No one's like your grid was prove it.
SPEAKER_06Oh my god. Yeah.
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_09No one's stopping you, Brian.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, I want to. I want you. Are you jumping off right now on that bridge? Die for her. Then I believe you. Otherwise, and then then I can live in my like completely devastated lyrics after you're dead. Right.
SPEAKER_09So you saw you talked about it.
SPEAKER_06But I don't want you to die, people.
SPEAKER_09Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's fine. Don't worry. Don't worry about it.
SPEAKER_05Okay.
SPEAKER_09So you were saying like lyrics that bother you are like basic.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_09Like, uh, do you have any other sort of like thoughts on like what makes truly unforgettably shitty lyrics?
SPEAKER_06Sh can she have an example?
SPEAKER_09Yeah, if you have examples, I mean, if you got any songs, let's let's let's let's jump in.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I I just think that personally bad lyrics come from a mediocre experience where you're trying to make it into something poetic when it's just it's boring. Be different. Say things differently. I mean the lack of like uniqueness in lyrics nowadays, at least the more popular kind of stuff, the things that are getting more attention is just like we've been doing this forever. What what's new about this? I think that there's also a whole other aspect which might might just be a touching my mic, which might just be a personal opinion. But I think sometimes you can tell when someone's written their own lyrics and they feel it and they're singing it and they have a say in the music, and you can tell when someone else is writing it for you and someone else is making the song for you, all you can do is sing. For me at least, there's a lot of people that it's just not passionate. And I think like despite the lyrics, maybe they're fantastic, maybe they're horrible. It just doesn't work because there's no you know, it's like, oh, you have this thing, but we have a whole band of people, and all you have to do. Pay us like 10k and we'll make you famous. I don't want to listen to that music.
SPEAKER_06I agree with you so much. Like I love a passionate singer. Like that I don't know. Like, um, that's why you ought to know so resonated. Like she felt that shit.
SPEAKER_09Yeah, yeah. Clearly, nobody else wrote that song.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, but but also there's other songs like that. I like even um Gwen Stefani, like there's like I'm just a girl, or something like that. That's like a poppy, like, but it is so deep, that song. Like when you think about like she how did she must she's like a girl in a boy's world, like living that life and so stuff like that. It's like even how bubblegum she sang that just it's like it made it hit.
SPEAKER_01I was gonna say there's a reason it blew up. There's a reason people liked it, right because it there was so much oomph behind those lyrics and so much like experience and feeling and yeah.
SPEAKER_09Alright, so you got any did you come with any examples of bad lyrics?
SPEAKER_01I yeah, I did. Is this is this the one that I sent you? The toast song.
SPEAKER_09Oh my god, let's get we'll get to that. Yeah, let's do that. Let's do that one now.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_09The movie Triangle of Sadness. You like that movie?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I watched it once and I I wanted to watch it again, but never circled back because I think that there's just so much metaphor in that movie that is like flies under the radar. Half half the time you're like, what is going on? But the soundtrack is just incredible.
SPEAKER_09So so in the movie, the director wants to contrast the plate they're in when the when they're on the beach by playing this really like light, happy tune by the British artist Desre, who started out her career hitting big with You Gotta Be was her hit, right? You gotta be.
SPEAKER_05You gotta be You gotta be You gotta be a big thing. Yeah, I guess for the big hit. Yeah.
SPEAKER_09But the song Life is the song. Uh I actually saw that in 2007 BBC did a poll, uh, worst pop lyrics of all time, and this song came in third.
SPEAKER_00No way!
SPEAKER_09Yeah, it this came in third. Um what go ahead, tell us about it though. What what like what how did you come to be like this?
SPEAKER_01I had I had seen your guys' podcast before, and when I watched this movie, I was like, I am so drawn to this song because it's so catchy and it's so real, but the lyrics fucking suck. They're just like, what is going on? But it works.
SPEAKER_09And so again, back to like it's like this contrast where you have these competing things, like the music's so catchy and and fun, and the lyrics, like, what did you spend two minutes on ghosts? Nobody was like, nobody was like, Yeah, maybe do a revision, so let's just quickly watch the evening news. What so the line the the the song begins? I'm afraid of the dark, especially when I'm in the park. I mean Dr. Seuss, straight off the bat, and there's no one else around. Ooh, I get the shivers. I don't want to see a ghost. It's a sight I fear the most. I'd rather have a piece of toast and watch the evening news. I don't like green eggs and ham. Right. I do not like them, Sam I am. I mean, how does that get recorded? Right. Susan, tell us. You're recording artist? How does that like when you went to record a song? Was there like is there anyone sort of like checking out your lyrics or sort of talking through your I mean, is there any backstop to bad lyrics?
SPEAKER_01Well, my process is very different. I don't really write anything down. I listen to the music that I create and then kind of feel how I feel when I'm missing listening to it, and it come naturally to me, but I have no idea how this bitch got into a studio and recorded this song. But I'm glad that she did because here we are.
SPEAKER_08Exactly. It takes all kinds, I guess. Yeah. What do you think?
SPEAKER_06Yeah, no, I I it just made me think about so when you told me to think of these songs with the bad lyrics, but that are like huge hits or like at least radio play. So you guys will probably feel like you cannot even choose that song. But like I love this song too. Like it's but it's um Bohemian Rhapsody by Queen.
SPEAKER_09Because like I think like But is this like the where the Guardian says nonsense that feels like it's answering the world's problems. I mean isn't that Bohemian? Isn't that Bohemian Rhapsody?
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_09You're singing along and you're just like, I don't even know what I'm saying, but this is so Mamma Mia, Mamma Mia, Mamma Mia, let me pop be.
SPEAKER_06Does he? Like, what does that mean? Yeah, but like it's insane. Yeah, it is the inane lyrics. I mean, I just I love it so much though. It's like such a huge karaoke song, too. People choose it and stuff. It's like impossible.
SPEAKER_09But they're but but I think they okay, so I think in that sense, they've crossed into a territory that's different from this. This is just plain stupid.
SPEAKER_03Well, yeah.
SPEAKER_09No, no, no, but there's there's a we when you get into like but they get into like silly almost to the point of like obscure. There's a lot of bands I think where you're like, what is this? Like I think County and Crows live in this territory too, where it's like I don't exactly know what he's talking about, but it kind of sounds cool. But maybe but it's almost like the obscurity makes it cool. Whereas here, she can't get obscure. It's it's just straight up like I'm just talking about my day. Isn't this fun?
SPEAKER_06Are we we're just talking about any lyrics though now? Or does it have to be a little bit more than a little bit kind of lyrical?
SPEAKER_09But but but it when it comes to like silly or inane, like you're talking about queen, but queen is almost like beyond silly.
SPEAKER_06It's like Well, when it came out, was it? Like, was everyone going like what the hell?
SPEAKER_09Maybe, but they liked it. No, but this isn't what the hell. This is what the fuck. Okay, like this is a different that's like a very different conversation.
SPEAKER_01Well, like throughout the whole song, too. It's it doesn't change much from the first verse.
SPEAKER_09Second verse. I'm a superstitious girl. I'm the worst in the world. Never walk under ladders. I keep a rabbit's tail. Okay, I mean like I mean, we are we reading like a nine-year-old journal?
SPEAKER_06Dick and Jane.
SPEAKER_09Dick and Jane.
SPEAKER_06Okay, well, what's what's your song then?
SPEAKER_09Okay, so my I'm gonna go with anything. I've got one specific, but anything by black-eyed peace.
SPEAKER_06Well, okay, I could have said Lady Humps. I hate that song. My you mean my humps? My hump, my hump, my humps.
SPEAKER_09But okay, but no, but here's the thing here's the thing with black-eyed peas. They write jams, right? They write party songs, and they're good at it. That doesn't mean the lyrics have to be fucking terrible. So there's a song that's made a comeback because of TikTok with them, right?
SPEAKER_06Is it dun dun dun dun dun dun dun?
SPEAKER_09Yeah, it's meet me halfway.
SPEAKER_06Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_09Meet me halfway, right? Meet me halfway. It's a fun song. On my running playlist, it's all good. But these lyrics, I mean, will I am goes, where is it? I have it here somewhere. Will I am? He says, Cool, I spend my time thinking about you. Every single day I'm missing you. And all those things we used to do. Hey girl, what's up? I used to it used to be just me and you. Girl, I travel around the world, even sail the seven seas, across the universe, and other galaxies. Just tell me where to go. Where you want to meet. I navigate myself to where you be. I uh you know, I mean like, dude, again, did you spend five minutes on these lyrics?
SPEAKER_01Well, and it it's funny because like the st the story in just that verse doesn't make a goddamn sense in the whole wide world. You know, he's like I'm missing this person. Oh, hey, what's up, girl? Implying that they're face to face, and then he's like, Where like where you be? Like now I can't find you. Where the fuck did you go?
SPEAKER_09I just think in general, like they write really fun music, but like, you know, I got a feeling, just really bad lyrics, and that just it hits, you know, it hits because it's a good it's a good song to jam to, but man, those lyrics are.
SPEAKER_06I I guess all mine are gonna be not make the mark.
SPEAKER_09Why? What do you got? Where do you want to go?
SPEAKER_06Well, my other one with Lady Humps.
SPEAKER_08Oh, my humps, my humps. My humps. My humps is so bad.
SPEAKER_01When I listen to my humps, and I grew up listening to Black Eyed Peas. When I listen to that song, I want to crawl out of my skin. But I'm also kind of like given a little shoulder shimmer.
SPEAKER_06Embarrassed as a woman when I hear the lyrics.
SPEAKER_01Like I'm all raunchy. I think it's Will I Am who does the like rap verse halfway through that is just the most disgusting slew of words put together. Every single time I'm like, oh god, seriously? Just keep it in your head. Or in your pants. Yeah.
SPEAKER_09Because wasn't that a Fergie solo project? I think it was. It was like she went solo. Yeah, I think it's actually Fergie is like what it's under, but yeah, Will I Am jumps in there. I mean, Will I am. Well, day it's a date. He's such an interesting person because he's done so many things, but like he it's it's unclear like where his talent really lays.
SPEAKER_06Not in lyrics.
SPEAKER_09Because his lyrics are so bad. I will say though, the one the the Will I Am I really love is he did a song on Sesame Street that killed it. Like when my kids were like three and four, and we would watch, and it was like really cool. He's like singing with like Bert and Ernie and stuff. That was when the Sesame Street was getting like all the big stars on to sing with them. Feist went on there and did a song, and Beaver went on there, and it was like so cool. Anyway. Um, alright, so uh what we got what else we got paper songs? Because we've got one. But you got any more, Susan?
SPEAKER_01Well, I was just I have a few examples kind of of bad lyrics, and what um initially came to mind a few days ago when Becky was like, Sunday, we're down for the podcast. Come over. I was like, oh crap, I need to like get my shit together. Um I immediately thought Casha.
SPEAKER_09With the dollar sign in her name? Is that kind of how she spells it?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, not anymore. Because she she like separated from No, she's not about the Jack and the Coke brushing your teeth at 9 a.m. in the morning or whatever it is. But TikTok was one of the example songs that I was like, this is these are Is this the song that begins with wake up in the morning? Wake up in the morning, yes.
SPEAKER_09Which which I mean, in the history of music, lines that have aged the worst. Could you come up with one better than that?
SPEAKER_06No. We could. We could, but it's 14-year-old and wish they were my girlfriend songs. Oh, that's right.
SPEAKER_09Warren's 17 and whatever, sexy, whatever, but yeah, you're right. But no, but it I don't know though.
SPEAKER_06I mean, on par.
SPEAKER_09Yeah, it's on par. Wait.
SPEAKER_01TikTok is the whole song is just I can't believe I didn't think of this one. But also, I mean, there's there's a reason why it was so popular. Like, it's just it's different. You know, it was of the times, early 2000s. All the kids are like sparkly and you know, got the light up shoes and the healies, like it just made sense. But uh I mean, I personally was just obsessed with that whole album.
SPEAKER_06I mean, Ruby was so little and she liked it. And it's like it's it's also it's like listening to it when you know your kid likes it and she's what 12 or like how old must she have been? And then the the other it's it reminds me of like the girl version of the hangover. You know what I mean? Like, not Bridesmaids, like that movie Bridesmaids was its own kind of thing. I know it was like on the heels of that, but really it was just funny in its own right. But this song TikTok is like wannabe guys' hangover vibes. There's something about it that's a good cause.
SPEAKER_01There's also a whole background to like Kesha and you know, her own experience in the music industry that is just so horrible and right. We should just be like, sorry, girl.
SPEAKER_06Like Yeah. I mean to tiptoe around you and not no eggshells anywhere.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it just it her experience and putting on this persona of like I'm just a horrible drugged up alcoholic chick with shit in my hair all the time, and I have to go on a stage and wear like next to nothing in front of a bunch of teenagers. It's gotta be a weird time as a person.
SPEAKER_06But she also felt like she had to.
SPEAKER_09That's such a good call. I mean, and that's kind of the backshot with somebody of this. Like I was I was driving to work on Friday and and uh listening to 88.5, the SoCal Sound. Such a good station. Have you ever listened listen to it? Like the best curation ever. But they said on this day in 1999, Britney Spears filmed the Hit Baby One More Time video at Venice High School. Which as soon as you say Brittany, you start and it opens a whole box of like the way women are treated and music and the way that they're you know, the control and the oh my god.
SPEAKER_06She's the elvis of her time.
SPEAKER_09Like Yeah, that's actually a fair point.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_06Do we have Marshams?
SPEAKER_09Yeah, we have Marshams, yeah. Let me know.
SPEAKER_06And pause. We're taking a break. How are you doing? Doing fantastic. Thank you for asking. You're doing such a good job. I feel like incredible. This is so fun. Yeah, you are a natural. You should have your own podcast.
SPEAKER_09Alright, let's let's let's get to this song. That did you should you tell Zusu about this song?
SPEAKER_06Yes, I sent it to her.
SPEAKER_09Okay. I've I've uh I've never been to me.
SPEAKER_06This song. Okay, I feel like okay, I know you did tell me this this afternoon, so I can't even pretend I don't know. But to me, before I even knew it, I was like, this song is written by a man. It's like, I'm sorry. Fuck you. Hugh Trad wife Rush Limbaugh wrote this song. Like that's where I was going. Like, sick.
SPEAKER_09Yeah, this song is thoroughly disgusting, but also hilarious. What was your impression when you heard it?
SPEAKER_01Um, I listened to it a a few times, and every time I just was kind of like, huh. What in what in the what in the world?
SPEAKER_09Yeah. Yeah. So for our listeners, I've never been to me as a ballad written and composed by two men, Ron and Kenneth.
SPEAKER_05Perfect!
SPEAKER_09It was it was made popular via the American singer Charlene. Now, Charlene, interestingly enough, white woman, but recorded for Motown. In fact, she was the first white woman that to have a number one hit for Motown.
SPEAKER_06What?
SPEAKER_09Yeah.
SPEAKER_06There's such crazy shit in this world.
SPEAKER_09Although its original release in 1977 barely registered on the US Billboard Hot 100, its re-release in 1982 reached number one and went number one in a whole bunch of different countries.
SPEAKER_01The re-release. I'm curious what countries it hit number one in.
SPEAKER_09Well, well, it was hu it was biggest in Australia.
SPEAKER_06Well, listen, that this is what I want to say because that's how I first heard the song when I told you about it. So I was like, have you seen Priscilla Queen of the Desert? So Priscilla Queen of the Desert is an indie film that everyone in the world needs to see as part of your repertoire. Okay, because this is such an amazing movie that has it's just got like so much resonance and so many different little like demographics. You know, like different people can really appreciate where it lands, but it's also it's about drag queens that go across the outbeck in Australia, right? So it's that's why it was it's Terrence Stamp, like these amazing actors. It is one of what's his name from Memento, Guy Pierce, it's his like first movie, and he plays this hot, flaming homosexual drag queen that dresses up and does these shows, but drives across the the desert to go to that rock in Ayers Rock, yeah. Ayers Rock, and they go there because they want to perform like on that rock and they're like drag.
SPEAKER_02I love this.
SPEAKER_06It's insane, like he Guy Pierce is my favorite character, but there's in the middle of that movie. This is the first time I heard the song, is um uh one of the drag queens that goes on the tour with them does this song.
SPEAKER_09Amazing.
SPEAKER_06It's so it's like when that's the first time I heard it, and I was like, what is this song? Like what digging in this is an insane song, but like you can see the drama of it like completely attracting the drag queen universe, you know.
SPEAKER_09So the song is was written by men, but it's the narrator of the song is ostensibly a woman who's lived a jet set life that you anyone would be envious of. She's talking to a woman who is married with a child and saying to her, look, I understand that you feel trapped in your life, and I've lived this incredible life traveling around the world.
SPEAKER_06Ron's wife.
SPEAKER_09But I'm but but I'm empty inside, and and you have it better than I do. And it's it absolutely bonkers hilarious. Wait.
SPEAKER_06I I just see I just feel like every time this song is performed live or on the radio or anywhere, there should be like a little disclaimer underneath. Like, this song is written by two men, and they were wishing for these trad wives, and they wanted blowjobs later that even just FYI and not so tiny font at the bottom.
SPEAKER_01It's actually huge at the top.
SPEAKER_06The the voice of an auctioneer, you know, really fast talking. This one was this was written by two men, and they were really wanting a blove job that night.
SPEAKER_09It's just like because so so for the song begins with Hey Lady, you lady, right off the bat. Sick. Not written by a woman.
SPEAKER_01Uh hey lady, you lady. Sounding like Will I Am at the moment. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_09Hey lady, just thinking, thinking, thinking about you. Okay. Hey, hey lady, cursing at your life. You're a discontented mother and a regimented wife. I've no doubt you dream about the things you'll never do. But I wish someone had talked to me the way I want to talk to you.
SPEAKER_05Written by two men.
SPEAKER_09Ooh. I've been to Georgia and California. Georgia. Why the f are you bragging about?
SPEAKER_06Georgia, big one.
SPEAKER_09But later on says, I've been to Nice in the Isle of Greece. Isle of Greece, it's not an island. I've sipped champagne on a yacht. I've been in Monte Carlo and showed them what I've got. And it here comes the best line of all. This is the best fucking line of the song. I've been on dressed by kings and seen some things a woman isn't supposed to see.
SPEAKER_06Like what?
SPEAKER_09Do tell.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_09As a man writing for a woman in the perspective of She's been, this narrator's been to paradise, but never been to me. And says to the woman, that little baby you're holding, and that man you fought with this morning, the same one you're gonna make love to tonight, that's truth. That's love.
SPEAKER_07Yeah. But what's the but what's the spoke?
SPEAKER_05This song that's written by two men every time.
SPEAKER_04Like pop it in in the middle.
SPEAKER_09But what's the but what's the what's the spoken word part? They don't have it in the lyrics. The spoken word part is unbelievable.
SPEAKER_06I'm gonna do that right now, Googling spoken word. Here we go.
SPEAKER_09And to put a little put a little cherry on the top. I spent my life exploring.
SPEAKER_06The subtle whoring that I told you subtle whoring, and you're like, I don't think it says that baby. It says flamery. Subtle horror?
SPEAKER_09So this these lyrics somehow.
SPEAKER_06This man! These men, Ron and Kevin.
SPEAKER_09But it's a it's a it was the 70s. No. Babe, this is the same decade the Beach Boys are writing like little tomboy. Oh one of the most disgusting songs of all time. The Beach Boys. They wrote a song about like a 14-year-old girl.
SPEAKER_06But he wanted to sit on his lap and don't don't dress like a tomboy. You should be wearing a dress and stuff.
SPEAKER_09It's foul.
SPEAKER_06Dark. It's a big thing.
SPEAKER_09So I guess I guess in those terms, I mean I guess you could write songs like this.
SPEAKER_06Well.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_06Okay, wait, what am I looking up? Spoken.
SPEAKER_09The spoken word part. It's so hilarious. Because I read here actually it said that it said that that because of the spoken, the spoken word part actually held it back in 77. It was kind of controversial.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, because wait till I read it if I ever find it.
SPEAKER_09Okay, go ahead and look for it. So in 1982, a DJ in Tampa heard the song, reached out to the president of Motown, and was like, this could be a hit. They reached out to the woman who was had retired from music and was living in a town in England with her British husband.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_09And they were like, come back and help us bring this song back.
SPEAKER_01That's insane. I've never been to me.
SPEAKER_09By by the way, to go to go number one, this song beat out Ebony and Ivory by Paul McCartney and Stevie Wonder.
SPEAKER_06I actually appreciate that it beat out that song. Terrible.
SPEAKER_09I don't like it. What do you think how do you feel about songs that have spoken parts in them? I'm a little I'm a little uh off on that.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01It's not my favorite, but I think it can be tasteful in some senses. Um I mean I think that there's a lot of songs. I literally was just listening to one today that I was I was thinking just this. Like, do I do I like the part where they're just talking to me or do I not? But um I don't know. I think for the most part, what comes to my mind is like, is this really necessary in telling the story during the song? Like, do we really need this context? Or could you maybe make your lyrics better?
SPEAKER_09Yeah, or could you just sing it? Like, why does it need to be spoken? So two-thirds of the way through the song, she says, um Charlie's on I've never been there. She speaks and says, Hey, these men saying for her. Hey, you know what paradise is? It's a lie, a fantasy we created about people and places as we'd like them to be. But you know what the truth is? It's that little baby you're holding. It's that man you fought with this morning. Oh, that oh, she speaks that part. The same one you're gonna make love with tonight. That's truth. That's love. But then but then she sings, sometimes I've been crying for unborn children that might have made me complete.
SPEAKER_06Sick. Okay, written by two men. Like every time we need that, that because like you if a man hears this song and thinks like, these women who never had babies think they should have.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_04You know, they can't, they they're incomplete if they don't have women.
SPEAKER_06This song was written by two men. Like that just you know, not true, not true.
SPEAKER_09It's so bad. Yeah.
SPEAKER_06It's so crazy. Like, I it's in, I mean, it's how many songs have this viewpoint, you know, this a woman's point of view. I feel like there's sometimes where you hear a song, you're like, a man wrote that. Like, just I hear it, I think it. You know? I feel like don't you dare.
SPEAKER_01There's a lot of that, I'm sure.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01A lot. Plus having worked in that, I mean, the music industry. I worked for um a company called Universal Audio that makes equipment and software and that kind of stuff. Um kind of being involved in that kind of industry. You do as a woman, I did and have um felt very overpowered by the male influence in music. And not luckily not in in ways that a lot of people have, um, but there's just a sense of you don't know what you you're talking about. Uh you're not as experienced as I am, because I'm the man who likes the button. And you don't get to push the button. I get to do it. It's like it and it's so weird because you're told your whole life, like, oh be careful, like this industry is very like you know, crazy. You might get caught in some stuff, or taken advantage of. And it's true. Like it's just it's crazy. The influence that the uh the M E N have on W-O-M-E-N.
SPEAKER_06And how also our word woman has to include their word, men. Why can't we just be woe? We don't want to be woe men. We just want to be whatever.
SPEAKER_09What's the etymology of that anyway? What does that what? What's the etymology of that? How does that work?
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04The rib that we had from Adam made Yeah, because guess what?
SPEAKER_01Chicken or the egg, I doubt men came first.
SPEAKER_06Yeah. Yeah. We are the ones who could produce them. We're producers.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_06Production right here. And food source.
SPEAKER_09Yeah. Yeah. All of it. All of it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_06God, so insane.
SPEAKER_09Yeah. 1982 on the charts. I've never been to me. Number 38 for the year.
SPEAKER_04Shut up! It was on the charts. You guys.
SPEAKER_09Number 38 for the year. No.
SPEAKER_04For how long?
SPEAKER_09Well, it was that was the that was its year end. But that's the peak of the top. Number 38 for the year.
SPEAKER_06However, we've been doing this podcast. Like, I've realized like some songs don't, some songs that were huge don't get on here. Yeah. For the year.
SPEAKER_09They don't make it for the year.
SPEAKER_06This song is 38. That's respectable.
SPEAKER_09Right between at number 39, 65 Love Affair by Paul Davis.
SPEAKER_05No idea.
SPEAKER_09And Even the Nights Are Better by Air Supply.
SPEAKER_05Even the Nights Are Better. No, I'm not. No, no, no, no.
SPEAKER_07That's Arthur. That's Arthur. I was gonna say that's that's Christopher Cross. That's my thought, too. Whether Even the Nights are better. I don't know.
SPEAKER_09Wait, what is 60 Who What is 65 Love Affair? Hold on. 65 Love Affair. Um Paul it performed by Paul Davis on his album Cool Night.
SPEAKER_05Cool Night. I think I know that song.
SPEAKER_09I could be wrong. It was reminiscent of the blue-eyed soul of Holland Oates. Okay. I've got to see a picture of Paul Davis here, though. Hold on. He's gonna be like he's gonna be so bad. I haven't visioned. Ready? Picture Paul Davis.
SPEAKER_06Oh totally different. He looks like, imagine. Um, did you watch Parks and Recreation? The meat guy. He looks like Nick Offerman. Nick Offerman. Nick Offerman. He looks like Nick Offerman. We can turn this around to show her, right?
SPEAKER_09Yeah, you can show. You can show, yeah.
SPEAKER_06Is that like Nick Offerman-ish?
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah. Yeah. Totally.
unknownSorry, I dropped your.
SPEAKER_09That's Paul Davis.
SPEAKER_06That's Paul Davis.
SPEAKER_09Singing, singing 65, what was it called?
SPEAKER_06Well, but we don't know.
SPEAKER_0965 Love Affair. Wow. No.
SPEAKER_06Anyway, it's just kind of crazy that this song is so high on the side.
SPEAKER_09Oh, I know. It's unbelievable.
SPEAKER_06There's a lot. Pac-Man Fever is a song.
SPEAKER_07Number 42 people. Would you know this song? No.
SPEAKER_06Pac-Man Fever? Private Eyes by Holland Oaks.
SPEAKER_09Pac-Man Fever is a 1981 novelty song. Well, obviously. Oh god, capitalizing on the video game craze. The song referencing the arcade game Pac-Man peaked at number nine. Jesus.
SPEAKER_06We listen to Pac-Man song.
SPEAKER_09VH1 right to the number 98 on their list of hundred greatest market wonders.
SPEAKER_06That has to be in the world.
SPEAKER_09Okay, hold on. Before we get out of here, 1982. What was tops in the charts? I think we've probably been here before, but 1982, Tops in the Charts was Let's get physical. Physical. Okay. Okay.
SPEAKER_06Eye of the Tiger. It's the Eye of the Tiger.
SPEAKER_09Yeah, exactly. I love rock and roll.
SPEAKER_06It's number three by John Ebony and Ivory.
SPEAKER_09Centerfold, centerfold. What a song Centerfold is, though, huh? They're just like, what if we made a song about like a porn mag?
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_09And they were just like, cool.
SPEAKER_06The total naked thing that you pull out.
SPEAKER_01It's like. I I actually just learned what that word meant and used it in one of my own lyrics just to kind of you know encapsulate the um physicality that is like um well I don't really remember which song it was, but I I was like, oh, I've heard that word before. Oh yeah, because I just figured out what it meant and then used it. It's so meaningful. Like a woman.
SPEAKER_09To your earlier point, though, Zoo, like centerfold to me sounds like a word Amy Winehouse could have done damage with. Like, like she would have taken that and just like you know, like my baby is a centerfold.
SPEAKER_06Like she like spreads her pain for everyone. Like, okay.
SPEAKER_09His memory's just been sold.
SPEAKER_06Look at Daisy, she's like a little mad right now. She woke up.
SPEAKER_09She's like, God, are you talking about centerfolds? What the floor is?
SPEAKER_06I'm a centerfold, and she goes sideways.
SPEAKER_09Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I I wrote this song. Um I forget. Oh, it's called Same Shit, Different Day. That's just what I titled the idea. Um my lyrics, which I'm kind of stuck in an A B A B situation recently, which I'm trying to branch out of, but whatever it comes out of my brain. And I wouldn't say that these are good lyrics either, but um it it also is in the way that I sing it. But they go, I will never know where you get it from. Why don't you feel the same? Same shit, different day. We're stuck in our ways. Baby, I will never know where you get it from. Kept me on a leash, so I never run. Same shit, different day. Save face for the centerfold, then you're done. I call your name out loud, but you never come. Why don't you feel the same? Why don't you feel the same?
SPEAKER_09Oh, yeah, it's good.
SPEAKER_01Devastating! It's emotionally devastating. It's real the way that I I sing it, I think, just makes it more interesting.
SPEAKER_06No, it's great, it's fantastic. Quite interesting as it is. Like just to hear it. I can't wait to hear it.
SPEAKER_09Have you recorded it yet?
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_09Wait, is it on Spotify?
SPEAKER_06No, I just have an MP3 on the phone. Okay, well, it's great.
SPEAKER_09I can't wait to hear that.
SPEAKER_06It's amazing. Me too. It's like so deep. I feel it. It's so good.
SPEAKER_09Um, we're gonna get out of here, again, pulling all the threads together. Yes. What was the bottom of the charts in 1982? Well, number 98 was Arthur's theme.
SPEAKER_04I knew that.
SPEAKER_09Number 100, either on its way out or on its way in, was Edge of 17 by Stevie Nix. I mean, some of these, like what is what is this song? Going down by Greg Gidry.
SPEAKER_06I mean I don't know.
SPEAKER_09Greg Gidry sounds like he he's like gonna sell me a car.
SPEAKER_06No, he lives in the out. What are those places? What what are the what's the Wow, look at him.
SPEAKER_09He's like a like a homeless man's Rob Lowe.
SPEAKER_06That's not what I pictured.
unknownI love Rob Lowe.
SPEAKER_09Yeah.
SPEAKER_06Me too.
SPEAKER_09Going down is a soft rock song by Rob Gidry. Uh let's see. It reached number 11 on the adult contemporary charts. The song was featured on his 1982 album, Over the Line.
SPEAKER_06Sounds like he's over the line.
SPEAKER_09Yeah.
SPEAKER_06He wants her going down. Sounds like a man wrote it. And cut. And same.
SPEAKER_09Alright. We're gonna wrap up there. Uh Zuzu, thanks so much for the video.
SPEAKER_06Suzuki, you're the first guest we've ever had.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I was so nervous coming into it, but man, that was fun. Yeah, I had this much fun. Which is actually a lot. It's a it's in okay, this is in frame.
SPEAKER_06Okay, because okay, I was worried that this doesn't work. Yeah, this doesn't I can't. This is a lot of fun. I had this much fun. Okay. Yeah, thank you for having me. Thank you, Zuzu. Tacos now. We're gonna have tacos.
