The Difference Between Guilt and Shame

Have you ever felt like the moment God started opening doors, everything else started falling apart?

In this honest conversation, Shannon and Deb talk about spiritual warfare, open doors, guilt, shame, anxiety, addiction recovery, and learning how to stay faithful when life feels heavy.

As the upcoming women's conference continues to grow beyond anything they imagined, unexpected challenges seem to be showing up everywhere—from attacks on reputation, emotional overwhelm, family struggles, and questions about helping people find recovery.

Together they unpack the difference between guilt and shame, why the enemy attacks identity, and how God continues to work even in difficult seasons.

If you've ever felt stretched, overwhelmed, discouraged, or questioned whether you're on the right path, this episode is a reminder that opposition doesn't always mean you're off course.

Sometimes it's confirmation that you're headed exactly where God wants you to go. 

Key Bible Verses

God's Protection During Attack

"The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it abundantly."

Why It Fits

The enemy attacks identity, peace, purpose, and relationships. But Jesus came to give life, hope, and purpose. 

Guilt vs. Shame

"There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus."

Talking Point

Guilt says:
 "I did something wrong."

Shame says:
 "I am something wrong."

Jesus convicts us to restore us.
 The enemy condemns us to destroy us. 

God's Strength During Hard Seasons

"Fear not, for I am with you."

Talking Point

When life feels heavy, God doesn't ask us to carry it alone.

Keep Building

"Let us not grow weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up."

Talking Point

The conference.
 The podcast.
 The ministry.
 The recovery journey.

Don't quit in the stretching season.

Encouragement

Maybe you're listening today and you feel overwhelmed.

Maybe you're carrying anxiety.
 Maybe you're carrying guilt.
 Maybe you're fighting battles nobody else sees.

Don't let the enemy convince you that opposition means you're failing.

Sometimes opposition means you're growing.

Sometimes the greatest attacks happen right before the greatest breakthroughs.

The enemy attacks what threatens him.

And if God is opening doors in your life, don't be surprised when resistance shows up.

Keep praying.
 Keep building.
 Keep trusting.

And most importantly...

Don't pick up chains Jesus already broke off your life. 

Closing Prayer

Father,

Thank You for being faithful in every season.

Thank You for carrying us when life feels heavy and for reminding us that we do not walk through hard seasons alone.

Lord, help us recognize the difference between conviction and condemnation.

When guilt tries to become shame, remind us who we are in You.

Strengthen every listener who feels overwhelmed, discouraged, attacked, or stretched beyond what they think they can handle.

Give them peace where there is anxiety.
 Hope where there is fear.
 Faith where there is doubt.

And Lord, as doors continue to open, help us stay focused on the assignment You have given us rather than the distractions around us.

We trust You with the battle.
 We trust You with the outcome.
 And we trust You with the next step.

In Jesus' name,

Amen.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:01

Lord, we love you today. We just thank you for this another opportunity to be here. And Lord, I just thank you, Lord, for Shannon. And I thank you for um our friendship. And Lord, I just thank you um for the connections that you are connecting together in our life. And Lord, I just pray tonight that as we speak, that we would speak um exactly what you would have us to speak, and that everybody listening would receive exactly what you would have them to receive. In Jesus' name. Amen. Amen.

SPEAKER_00 0:29

Hey ladies and gentlemen, and welcome back to Unrelated Sisters Truth and Grace Conversation. I'm Shannon. I'm Deb. And we're here tonight. We're just gonna talk like normal, nothing fantastic, nothing, you know, going on. Uh we've got a few, a few different topics. We'll talk a little bit about the um the upcoming conference. Uh we'll be creating an event for that. Super, super excited. Um, we've also been invited to do it a second time in Rockmart, Georgia, where I uh where I work. Um uh they're trying to work out the details as far as the venue and where we're gonna and all of that. And uh so I'll have a yes, a definite yes, probably next week on that one, which blew my mind. That was never part of the process. It was supposed to be one. But I seen a TikTok this morning, and uh when I was scrolling through TikTok this morning, and the girl goes, I don't know who this is for, but it's for somebody today. That you go through three seasons before God opens up for you, right? And the first one is that season of just patience or waiting or or holding on, right? I ain't either, yeah. And then you go through a season of where everything just seems like it's falling apart no matter what. Right, like, and it's never anything big, you know what I mean? It's just the small things that just keep going. It feels like it is, it feels huge, yeah. And then the third, and and that's that season stretches you. That's the hardest. And I feel like that's where we've been. And then all of a sudden, doors started opening, right? The con the conference started happening, all the things started happening, but in the background, personally, I've been going through this thing at work. So we had to fire an associate last August. So it'll be a year this August that we fired this associate, and um he did it to himself, right? Like it's not like I decided to fire him, like he misacted and uh got himself in trouble, right? And uh and he's been calling ethics and reporting all these different things, and it's been work-related, right? It's not been paying recently, he's been posting pictures of me on the internet and saying things that now damage my reputation or my brand, you know, as the store, as the store manager of that store in that community. Like I've built massive relationships with that community. So I've been in this, this is the last two weeks since you hadn't been here. I've been in this, like, okay, God, like, are you telling me it's time to find a new place to go? Is it time to pack up and leave? Like, I've never had anything like this happen to me before. So, like I'm like, you know, and I hadn't really been discussing it with my husband because it's not been personal, right? Right? It's been work. Right. But like I come home the other night and I just told him everything, and he's like, Well, what are we gonna do? What are you gonna do? And I was like, I don't know, because usually when it's time to move on, right? Because I've been with the same company for over 20 years, and when it's time to move on, it's very obvious that it's time to move on. Yeah, and I don't feel like that's how where I'm at. But in some ways, I've kind of fear, like humanly, I guess. My fear is kind of like I don't know. And it makes me feel guilty for feeling that way, like it uh you know, makes me feel guilty for because I went last week, like I went to my boss last week and I was like, okay, I'm done. Like what are we doing? Because I was in under investigation at work over this, and then he posted this this picture of me and said I was a prostitute on the community page, you know, uh, and all these different things. And I'm like, I'm like, I don't know what to do. Like, I I feel like I need to just let him win and go find another store to go to. Well, and that's so my boss is sh my boss is very a very faithful woman too, and she said the same thing. She says, Oh no, no, we ain't doing that. She said, Do you feel like it's time for you to move on? I was like, Well, no, I'm not at peace with it. Because usually when it's time to move on, I'm very at peace. I know exactly when it's time to go. Um, and she's like, Well, then we ain't doing that. So she like starts typing up this email. So we'll see. I don't know, I don't know, right? But he don't just attack me, like he attacks other females in my building, right? Like he sent a message to one of my team leads on Facebook, and she, I'm like, Are you friends with him? She's like, No. Like, I don't even know how that happened. Right.

SPEAKER_02 5:13

But I feel like the people that know you, you know, I mean, they know that the the things he said is not true. Right, they do. They do.

SPEAKER_00 5:20

But it's still not I don't know. It's just and I really don't care what people think. Right. You know, I hadn't cared in a long time what people think. I'll be 50 in August. And they say that's one of the great things of turning 50 is you quit worrying about one of them people think.

SPEAKER_02 5:35

Yeah. You're missing out if you don't.

SPEAKER_00 5:36

Yeah. You know, they say that's one of the things that when you turn 50, that's what happens. But like it's just been, I don't know. It's been emotionally dramatic for me. And I'm not usually dramatic. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:47

It's so wild. That's so crazy. Like, ain't that like against the law?

SPEAKER_00 5:53

I well, and that's what everybody and I'm like, I don't know. Like, I guess I guess deformation or something, a character, but then don't you have to hire a lawyer and honey? He ain't got no money. It's not like he can he ain't got nothing to give me. You know, I just I just want him to leave me alone. Like, I just want him to go away.

SPEAKER_02 6:11

Like, we'll just pray that God does that. Moves him out of the picture.

SPEAKER_00 6:14

Moves him on out of the picture. Like, I just don't You're not moving out of the picture. He can move out of the picture. That's right. Yeah. You know, that's that's all I want. Like, just find something else to obsess over or whatever the problem is. Yeah. People are crazy. They are Jesus ain't Jesus is not. He is not. And he's and that was one of the that he's got my back. And I know he does because I mean he's opened so many doors, and that's just a distraction, right? It's whether it's a distraction the enemy created or it's just a dislife. Right? Because I don't think I don't think it's something the enemy created because it's been going on, right, for a year. So I'm not saying the enemy is attacking me because of all the doors that God has opened, but but he is because that's what happens.

SPEAKER_02 7:00

Because it's fear. Yes. And John 10 10 says the enemy comes to kill, steal, and destroy. So if it's in the under anything of that category, it's the enemy, right? So all the good came things come from from the Lord. So I feel like uh this is what I feel like. So you're have these doors opening. So, and these things that are happening that you're doing for the Lord, and you're saying yes, and we're saying yes. So I feel like the enemy is attacking, trying to attack your character. Of course he would try to attack your attack your character right now. You're fixing to try to you're or or doing women's conferences. Right. So why wouldn't he try to attack your character?

SPEAKER_00 7:36

Right.

SPEAKER_02 7:37

So we know this is attacking, and we said we just had to spite it in the spirit. That's right. You know what I mean? I can find my husband through it. But we ain't gonna live like that no more. So we just know, you know what? Hey, okay. Then I know I'm doing the I'm doing the right thing. I mean, if you ain't being attacked, you ain't doing the right thing. Because I mean, we should have known something wild was gonna come up when we start doing this. And I mean, it's wild at my house too, not like that wild, but in a different level, you know. I'm like, I'm gonna move out. I'm just gonna but no, really. So seriously, the enemy uh is trying to attack me in other ways, you know what I mean? Like stuff, you know, like over mine and stuff. And I'm like, no, I'm not gonna no. We're not playing that. We're not gonna play that. I've never had anxiety ever. Like I've never I've never suffered with like feeling like a super overwhelmed or anything like that. And these last little bit, I don't, it's just like, well, where is this coming from? Right. You know what I mean? Like this is not me. Right. You know what I mean? And then I recognize also the enemy is trying to attack more and trying to, you know, to because if he can beat you down and let and let you have you give in and let the, you know what I mean, let him win. He would like for him to win, but no, he's not winning. He's never gonna win.

unknown 8:50

No.

SPEAKER_00 8:51

So we're not gonna give in. No. So we're just gonna keep track.

SPEAKER_02 8:54

Yes, yes. I mean, that's just thank you, Lord, that we're on the right track and you're gonna give us strength to get through this and you're gonna you're gonna fight this battle for us.

SPEAKER_00 9:01

Yeah, that's just more confirmation, right? That we're headed where we're supposed to be headed. So and it's just been it's been a wild ride. It really has. Like, I just now we can just laugh at it and be like, you know what? Because we're doing what we're supposed to be doing. Well, and and that's another thing. Like, every time I started dwelling on it, and I don't dwell on things, which is weird for me, right? Like, usually if something happens, I deal with it that day. When I go to bed, I get up the next day, I don't deal with it again. Like, I'm done. Yeah, and but lately, like I find myself dwelling.

SPEAKER_02 9:32

Yeah, that's the same thing I'm going through. Uh uh, but the same thing, but on a different subject. And I'm like, what is wrong with me? Like, I don't do this, you know what I mean? Like, why am I? I thought we handled this yesterday, Jesus. You know, I thought we were past this. Like, I'm like, why am I feeling like this?

SPEAKER_00 9:48

I thought we didn't discuss this. Yeah, did we not get done discussing it? You know? And then those feelings come again. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they come at the weirdest times. Like at the weirdest time, like I was leaving for lunch the other day and I and I thought about that picture, and then I was like, okay, I'm not going to lunch. Yeah. So I had food delivered to the store. And I like to leave the store for my hour of lunch because it gives me a minute to be away. You know what I'm saying? So whether I just go to my car and eat, or I go to a restaurant and sit down and eat, or I'll just take a nap. Yeah, it's a big nap. Yeah. Right? Because if I'm in if I'm in my office, they're gonna knock. Oh, yeah. Same. They gonna knock. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:27

It's like they know I'm in there. I'm hello. I'm on lunch. Somebody's like, can you check my apparel note? I'm at lunch. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:36

Yeah. Do you have a minute? Yeah, I do. Come on in.

unknown 10:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:40

Oh, I didn't mean to disrupt your lunch. Y'all didn't see me carrying in that bag of food. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:47

Oh, Lord. Oh. But we know we're on the right track. We did. Speaking of the women's conference, so I reach out to um my friend Cindy at Providence. Okay. And they're excited. Good. Yeah. Good. Honored. Good. So once we get more details, we will go see her.

SPEAKER_00 11:08

Yes. Yes, for sure. Definitely. Which I think we're to the point now. Like I would like to um because I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 11:19

Thank you for thinking of us.

SPEAKER_00 11:20

Well, that's where it led to, you know. And then they can help us like fix the food and set the tables up. Um, they can help us do some decorations and then help us clean up afterwards. And then that way we don't have to which you know, your family, my family, they'll all stay and help build that too. But they don't know how not to. No. Uh so uh, but that way it's less stress off of us and thinking about that. And then they get to be a part of something that I feel is so God led that I think it's gonna be bigger than I thought it was gonna be.

SPEAKER_02 11:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:57

So we'll see.

SPEAKER_02 11:58

It's gonna be good stuff.

SPEAKER_00 12:00

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:01

And after we're done, we're gonna try to set this event up because me and Shannon ain't like uh the best at doing this. We're gonna do it, and y'all can see it on Facebook at least.

SPEAKER_00 12:10

That's right. We're gonna invite everybody we know. Her all thousand people she follows her, and I'll like 200 people that follow me.

SPEAKER_01 12:17

Whatever.

SPEAKER_02 12:18

So you didn't gotta worry about people's end if you don't have 200 friends on Facebook. Yeah, I know. Is he posting it on your staff?

SPEAKER_00 12:25

No, so so I work in Polk County, and Polk County has a Polk County vent page, and the company that I work for, we end up on that vent page quite a lot because people get mad at us quite frequently and stuff like that. But it's the company or something we did in the store that ends up on there. But he's pro he is posting this stuff on that page, and it's not staying up very long because they won't allow it, like they take it down, but it's enough for people to see it, it's enough for associates to grab screenshots of it and send it to me and stuff like that, right? The people that live in Polk County, and you have to follow the Polk County vent page because it's hilarious. They talk about they talk about some of the craziest stuff on that page. It's Polk County. I mean, I love Polk County and it has become my second home, but you know, sometimes it's Polk County. That's all you can say. You know, but it's been, you know, but so and the people that know me in Polk County and all the people that are important to me in Polk County, which are the associates that work for me, of course, and then some some um nonprofits and stuff that I've you know invested into and stuff like that, they know who I am, they know what my heart is. They know they know where my faith is and they people that better know.

SPEAKER_02 13:43

Yeah, and the ones that don't. It's fine.

SPEAKER_00 13:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:47

I mean, I've thought people thought way worse about me. You know what I mean? I know how if they posted that about me, I would be like, I mean, before Christ, yeah. BC. I mean, seriously, like who cares? It's fine.

SPEAKER_00 14:04

I mean, I don't obviously it is disappointing. It's just I don't know. I really well, I honestly, honest. This is being vulnerably honest here. When somebody told me that, the first thing that came to my mind was that ain't been me in 20 years, buddy.

SPEAKER_02 14:22

Okay, that's what I'm saying. Like, I mean, like if they've been on me before, you know, you could have said that 20 years ago, dude.

SPEAKER_00 14:29

For me, but you know what I mean? I mean, seriously, that was the first thing that popped to my head. Yeah, you know. What brought me out of that? Why are we why is this coming up? Like you couldn't come up with something better, yeah. You know, because that was 20 years ago, buddy. You know, that's not me today. And uh, and then it made me think, you know, about what's the difference, you know, uh, between guilt and shame. And because before that was all shame, right? Like the way that I felt, the way that people portrayed me, or the way I portrayed myself to people, that was shame. Like it was 100% shame. And then the decisions and the choices that I made was guilt for me. Yeah. You know, and so it always, you know, and that was something that also, you know, it's like the devil will throw pictures in your head, yeah, you know, and uh and different things. And it makes you wonder though, you know, do I do think I know the difference between then and now, right? But then when somebody that didn't know me then throwing it up to me now, it's like let's talk about it.

SPEAKER_02 15:35

Let's talk about it. So Monday night, you know, we do breakthrough recovery on Monday nights. Yeah. And so we have this lesson, this breakthrough recovery book that one of the pastors wrote. So uh he had asked me to teach Monday night. He wasn't gonna be there. So I was like, oh yeah, let's see what the lesson is. And it was guilt and shame. I was like, Oh, I can do that because I feel like I've had a lot of that. And the Lord has helped me. It's easier to talk about things that you've been, you know what I mean? If you've yes suffered with that, or I I say suffer because sometimes that's what it feels like. So um, as I was reading it, uh, it says in there, guilt versus shame, it says, guilt, uh these two words are often used interchangeably, but they operate very differently. And I've never really thought about it like this. Me either. So it says guilt says, guilt is says that I did something wrong, right? When you have guilt, oh, I did something wrong. Shame says I am something wrong. Yep. But guilt under the Holy Spirit's conviction is healthy. So there's a healthy guilt, oh, and then there's a condemnation, like guilt, like you know what I mean, like you're condemning yourself. And so, like, healthy guilt will be it comes with grace. You know what I mean? Like you're like, mm, I probably shouldn't do that. Or I you did something and be like, oh, maybe I should probably repent or apologize. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like say you did I always use Kevin for example because uh he's you know, we go through a lot of stuff. And I'm like, you know, I might say something that I shouldn't say to my husband. Right. And the Holy Spirit will convict me with a guilt, a holy, you know, a healthy guilt. Yes. And lead me to, okay, I probably should repent and ask him for forgiveness. Right. You know, I probably shouldn't have said that. I probably could have responded a different way. Yes. Things like that. Now the ode that there was a guilt I'll shared, I think I shared this with you before, I know I did. Um, a few months ago when I was driving down the road and I was thinking about all the 18 kids, grandkids that I have, and I was like feeling really good. And I was like, man, I I'm just so happy that I get to be a Gigi. And then I was like, I wonder what it would have been like if I would have been a mom to my kids, like I am a Gigi to my grandkids. Right now, you know what I mean? And then immediately that guilt wanted to creep in that uh all the things that you know I wasn't a good mom. I wasn't, you know what I mean? And then so I was like, you know what? Because I was having a good thought. You know at the first it was good. I was like, man, I'm such a I'm so thankful I get to be a good uh grandma. GG, we don't say grandma. And um and then that guilt came in, and I'm like, no, I'm not gonna do that. I'm not gonna let that. I am a good I'm a good mom today. I can't change the things that I did in the past. You know what I mean? But but it but I had a mo I had a choice right there. I could have went down this road of the you know the guilt. The guilt that I shouldn't be, the condemnation.

SPEAKER_00 18:34

That you bring it that the enemy brings back up on you. And and that's those chains that we like to pick up and toy with, right? That we like to play with. I'll never forget that when you show me your dad said that. Don't pick it back up and play with it. And and when you've gone through trauma or addiction or just bad choices, period. In general, right? Just in general, like if you've made a choice and and they and we made choices, right? That guilt can always come back to haunt you. It can always come back because it just takes one whisper, one oh yeah, thought, one, and it flipped right around, right? What does it say? The enemy comes to kill, steal, and destroy. Kill, steal, and destroy. Yeah, he said, I came to give you life and life more abundantly. Yes. And then, you know, and and we talked about this about a month ago, or I talked about it. I don't even know if you were part of it, but in the in the uh uh Eve, the snake didn't come up and say, Hey, take a buy of this and defy Jesus. The snake came up and said, No, what did he say? Are you sure that's how he said it? Yeah. I think he said it this way, which give her the opportunity to make a choice on what she thought she heard.

SPEAKER_01 19:55

Yeah, right?

SPEAKER_00 19:56

And that's what the enemy does. He doesn't come up and say, I'm gonna condemn you, or I'm gonna make you feel guilty, or I'm gonna make you ashamed. He comes up and says, What did they say? How did they say it? Oh no, this is this is how it was. And our brain, our left-sided brain, will automatically jump onto it and it just makes you it just puts you there, and it can do it in a heartbeat. And when you are new to this journey, right? It's so easy. It's so, so easy to fall back into that trap. I think that's why a lot of people, when they get out of prison, it they can't move past what they've done or where they've been because they can't change their mindset, yeah. Their mindset. And it starts there. I had an associate come to me the other day and her daughter has come to her and has decided that she wants to get clean and that uh and so she's trying to figure out a way to help her um get into a program or to do this or do that. And I didn't know this, but like she has to have money up front to get into programs. Yes, it's wild. Yes. If they can afford the money to get in the program, that like I don't understand.

SPEAKER_02 21:15

Yeah, it's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 21:18

And I'm not talking about a couple hundred dollars. No, it's three or three thousand. Yeah, it was like twenty she needed twenty three hundred dollars up front to get her daughter into a program. Who do they think of drugs? I mean that's shameful. That's shameful. That's shameful, like because you can't. How are you supposed to get help? This girl's been lucky enough to not go to jail, to not score her life any more than she already has. But she can't get help the right way because they can't afford it. Like I don't understand. Like I just I Yeah. I've been and it's bond and since this associate come to me, all I I keep thinking, well, what can I do? Like who do I know? And you know what? I don't know anybody.

SPEAKER_02 22:13

So there are some places that you can get scholarships. No, they have like scholarships you can get. And most of the places you have to have the money up front. And then what? A lot of people don't have it.

SPEAKER_00 22:26

Who that's $2,300 is what she has to have up front. And that only plays for like six weeks or something. Eight weeks or something like that, she said. Twelve weeks maybe. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 22:37

Because after she said she had I was like That's kind of like a place called Hope the Guys Program in Darton. Like they let 'em come in. So you come in, um they just keep love on them, they start getting in the word and the things, and then they let 'em get a job. And once they get a job, then they start paying. Like to stay there. You know what I mean? Which you should. They have to learn how to you gotta learn to stand on a foot before you can stand on both feet.

SPEAKER_00 23:08

You know what I mean? I mean, most most and I and I and I truly believe this, and I was lucky. Like I was I was lucky. Like God knew exactly what to do to me to get me clean, right? He gave me another human, something that I could love and that I knew was gonna love me unconditionally, because that's all I ever wanted. Uh he knew that that would make me, you know, and uh and and so I was very lucky with that. Um, and I was very lucky that my son was healthy when he was born because I was doing meth up until uh four almost five months pregnant. Um and uh, but God knew. But a lot of people, I think they want to get clean. I think a lot of people that are on drugs get to they hit a point. You hit a point in life and you want to.

SPEAKER_02 24:01

Yeah, I did a bunch of times.

SPEAKER_00 24:03

But you don't know how or where or what to do. And if you're gonna pay $2,300 up for it.

SPEAKER_02 24:10

No, you ain't gonna do that. And buy $2,300, I'm probably just gonna go, ah, I'll be honest. You know what I mean? Yeah, you just need to let me get in and help me. I mean back then, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 24:20

No, I know, I know. I I yes, I get it. Like, but I'm just I'm dumb fumbled. I'm speechless. Like, I just didn't know I don't know. I don't know. Like, I just like no wonder we can't get past things in this country.

SPEAKER_02 24:39

But it's crazy though, because like if you go to jail and stuff, then a lot of places will let you come out into there, which some some of them. But if you're on the street, you can't get help. If you're on the street, you can't get help.

SPEAKER_00 24:52

And I think drug court, that program is probably the best program for somebody that wants to get in recovery, right? But why does it have to be drug court? Like, why do you have to get in trouble to be a part of it? Like, why can't we just open up because like the counseling that they go through and the classes they have to take and all the different things that they have to do? I think if my daddy hadn't never gone through that, he would have gone back to where he started, right? Because he didn't understand the emotional because drugs are emotional. They are emotional. Like you do drugs because of emotion. You don't do drugs because I mean, I guess you get addicted to them, whatever. That's a chemical balance or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 25:35

But it's a but you're it's it's the root cause. Yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 25:40

Drugs wasn't the problem, it was it was whatever got you there. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 25:45

And you know, and unless you've lived it, you don't understand it. I mean, drugs obviously was a problem, let me just say that.

SPEAKER_00 25:50

But yes, you know what I mean. Yes. Well, that's what I'm saying. Like, unless you've lived it, you don't understand that con that this conversation part right here that we're having, unless you've lived it. But why is there not programs like that for people on the streets that want to get clean?

SPEAKER_01 26:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:07

Like I don't understand. Like we want them to get in trouble and then or if they want to come home, you know, and parents that don't do drugs or haven't ever lived that life, they don't know what to do to help you. Right? And then when they hover over you like a helicopter parent, it makes you want to go out and get high. Yeah. Because we're not dealing with the actual issue of why we do drugs.

SPEAKER_02 26:32

Thankfully, when Kevin went to to jail this last time, he was sentenced to RSAT. And he had been offered that a billion times when he would go to jail. And he was like, I'm not doing that. You've seen me on a prison, I'm not going through that. Right. But this time, he was like, Yeah, I'll do it, I'll do it. You know what I mean? Which is RSAT's residential substance abuse treatment inside the prison. So, I mean, that changed his life. Right. Because you're going to classes, you're dealing with the thing like you're talking about. He'd never did that. Yeah. He wouldn't want to do it. No, right. He wasn't going to do it. Yeah. But when he was ready and willing, that program really, it really helped him.

SPEAKER_00 27:06

Yes. But why does it have to be in prison that that's offered? Why does it have to be, why does it have to be once you get in front of a judge, you make this promise to go do all these classes to to and get clean and stay clean to not get in trouble, right? To not go to prison. So you do drug court and if you miss it, then they throw you in jail or whatever. But what if there's people out here that want to do that program that aren't in jail? Be a good question. I don't know, but I feel like we need to find out who to ask that question to.

SPEAKER_02 27:45

I agree. Like it you can't tell me. I do people all the time are like, you know where we can go. But I'm like, yeah, you can go to this place, this place, this place, but it's X amount. I mean it's a good program, but and I get it's hard, right?

SPEAKER_00 27:58

And I get that when you're doing these programs, you have to have funding and you have to have you have to be able to house them and feed them and you have to be able to do the things. I get that. But the first 30 days, I think should be free. I think the first 30 days should be free. And I then I think you put them on a work system where they cook and clean and do all the things so you don't have to so you don't have to hire people to do those things, right? And then once they get a job, right, because the program can't be 30 days and out, right? It it needs to be nine to twelve months. Nine to twelve months. And some people need a little longer than that. But if once they get to, you know, once they get to 60 days or 90 days, then they should be able to hold a job, go out and get a job, come back to, you know, to where they're living. You know, and you know, maybe they can't pay 700 or $1,000 a week in rent, but they could pay a couple hundred dollars that's gonna feed them and keep the lights on. Right? Like I got it all figured out. I don't know why y'all can't do it.

SPEAKER_02 29:06

Yeah, it's wild. Yeah, it's true. I feel like there is a lot of people that would go into treatment if they could, like they And then you have you do have I mean, like Island Rivers and things like that.

SPEAKER_00 29:21

Well, that's where the uh like I don't know where she's at exactly, but wherever she's at, they'll hold her for seven days. But after seven days, she has to find a bed. She can't afford a bed. Yes. Right. But after seven days then what? I don't know. You know, then what? Then you then you gotta have twenty three hundred dollars. Well she wouldn't be in Highland Rivers if she could afford twenty three hundred dollars. You know, I don't understand. Like I guess I just I just don't get I don't get a lot about our our medical system and our government and and you know we pay for all this stuff, but we can't figure out a drug war and addiction that we as Americans allowed to happen in our country. Like our government allowed this stuff to happen. They allowed opiates to grow as big as they did. They allowed the cartels to bring meth and marijuana and things like that across our borders. You can't tell me they didn't know that. You can't.

SPEAKER_02 30:33

So that's our spill right out.

SPEAKER_00 30:36

We're just gonna stop right there. That was not what we planned on talking about. My bad. I got sidetracked. No, it was a good subject though, because it is something to Well, it's just it just blows my mind. Like I still can't fathom. I still can't fathom how that works. I just can't fathom it. I just can't, you know, and not everybody's gonna find Jesus right away, and not everybody's gonna, you know, surrender right away, you know. I guess I just kind of always knew that that's where I was supposed to be. I just always knew that he was there and that he was the reason I wasn't dead.

SPEAKER_02 31:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:11

You know, um, the difference for me, you know. But I don't know. Anyway, let's get back to shame and blame.

SPEAKER_02 31:20

No, that's shame and guilt. Shame and guilt. That's just what we talked about. I just went around the room and let everybody uh talk about what did we talk about? Um I asked them how shame how has shame, not just guilt, affected your life, your relationships, and your choices. So I went around the room and let everybody kind of talk about it. Yeah, talk about it. So my mom had a good point. She was like, I don't think you ever really get rid of shame. Like ever just ever get rid of because things are gonna come, you know what I mean? So that's a thing you just have to constantly let you're gonna it gets easier to be to battle it, you know what I mean? But no matter how long you've been in this race, you're gonna there's gonna be things that come into your mind or come into your, you know what I mean? Your spirit. Yeah, that make you know, well, for a lot of people they're like, I'm not good enough, I'm not qualified, I'm not smart enough, you know, the things that the enemy tries to tell you. Because that's what shame says, and I'm it's it's attacks your character, right? Right. And so that's just something that you have to dig into your word and know who you are, and uh so you can combat those lies. Right. You know.

SPEAKER_00 32:38

Yeah, and as as women, as females, as uh in in this day and age, and so much media and so much filters and so many fake, so much fakeness in the world that it, you know, it's and it's not just I don't think it's just women. I think young men fall into this too, where they, you know, where they uh they think there's they think, well, I'm not good enough for this, or I'm not good enough to do that, or I'm not qualified, I'm not beautiful enough, I'm not smart enough, I'm not, you know, handsome enough, you know, and as parents, you know, that's we have to notice that in in their because you can feel it in their spirit, I feel like, when they're being attacked like that. And we have to be able to combat that. And you don't combat it by telling them, Oh no, you're handsome, or no, you're qualified, because you're their mom and you have to say that things, right? But you have to ground them in the word of what their father says to g to and make sure they understand that no matter what they do in life, they are loved. You know, and um we've talked a lot about different things, you know. My kid um has a lot of emotional uh issues, uh, you know, and we're fairly sure he has some some mental issues going on and uh and and things like that, and he'll call and I can always hear it in his voice. He won't say it out loud, but I can always hear it in his voice, and he has learnt to notice when it's coming, right? And he has learnt and that's when he calls because he knows I'm gonna know. And so we can just talk through things so that he instead of medicating it yeah. Because that's what he was trying to that's what he's been trying to do is medicate it and and he knows my history. Like we've never hi we've never hid my history, and we've never hid his dad's history, and uh so he knows he's born with the addiction gene. I mean, I swear it has to be there has to be one. I don't know if that's a real thing, but there has to, I believe it, there is one generational curse. Generational curses, and he knows that, and he knows that you know we have broke through those and we're not going to allow the enemy to continue to bring that to our family. But so we try to work through it without substance and things like that. But it does bring shame, like and I and I think and after we hang up, I I have that moment of if I if I had been emotionally stable when he was little, would we be here today? Right? I don't know, because you know, and I've talked about it, you know, when when he was a baby, physically he was well taken care of, right? He was fed and he was bathed and he had toys and he had all the things that he needed, but emotionally I'm not I was not very strong in that. And I've grown a lot um in the last ten years since being with my husband. Um, but uh before that, you know, I had a lot of I didn't feel worthy, shame and stuff like that. And I didn't feel worthy to be his mom, you know, and uh and he knows this. This story is not new. Uh, but I didn't feel worthy to be his mom when when he was younger. So his emotional connections came from his nana. And a lot of women struggle with that, and I struggled with it for a long time. But now I just have to be grateful that he had that with somebody. That he had that emotional connection with somebody, and like he's coming home oh this weekend. He's coming home this weekend. Yay! Uh he's coming home this weekend, and he said, I just want to lay in my nana's lap. Uh oh. I love that. I was like, boy.

SPEAKER_02 36:34

Well, it's okay.

SPEAKER_00 36:35

And it is, it is 100% okay, you know, and like I said, but my kids don't like that too.

SPEAKER_02 36:40

Like they would especially Caitlin, like I thought that you that she would choose my mom in a minute, and that's okay. My mom raised her, you know what I mean? Yeah, but I'm grateful that I'm grateful that they weren't doing pipes because you know what I mean, for real.

SPEAKER_00 36:51

Yeah, no, and I get it, but yeah, and but it still brings that to me shame. Like when we when we hang up, I'm thinking, Yeah, what if yeah, yeah. He could have, you know, he could come lay his head in my lap, I'll pet him.

unknown 37:03

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:04

But I don't pet him like Nana. Right. You know, I don't we don't have that connect that we don't have that emotional connection. And so even when I do pet him, I don't pet him like Nana. Yeah, you know, and it's not Nana's fault. And and and I'm grateful that Nana was there, you know. I worked and I fed him and I physically take took care of him, but she um she I feel like she emotionally took care of him. And that definitely brings shame even now. And he's 20, he'll be he's 22.

SPEAKER_02 37:27

That's what I'm saying. That's what mom was saying. Like I cut, you know, I mean, no matter how how long it's been, like it will still try to creep in. Yeah, it does. It does. It hits. What if I could uh if I did this different, then maybe they wouldn't be like this. Oh yeah, oh yeah, the enemy will battle that with you. Courtney actually said that to me a couple weeks ago. Did I tell you that? Like we were talking we were having a conversation about one of the girls, and um I was like, well, maybe you need to take her to somewhere to get talking to because she's going through a lot of stuff with her dad. And uh or maybe some medicine, and she's like, I know she's not she just needs to learn how to deal with her emotions. Really? We were taking like seven medicines, that's about 50% you know what I mean? Hello, but she's nine, I get it, but at the same time, yeah, you're an adult. Yeah, you know, so we and her get in this conversation and she was like, Yeah, but um I know because then after she said it and she's seen the look on my face and I'm like, Well, hello, she's like, I I know I need to learn how to deal with my emotions better, but I just feel like and this was her, but I feel like Nana Papa should have um took us took us to therapy the first time you went to jail. And I'm like, Yeah, I that that's probably the truth, you know what I mean? But they didn't, so are we gonna still make those decisions? But anyway, so I could have and I really didn't feel shame at that moment. I was really mad, like, why are we still why are you still here? You know what I mean? But anyway, I just she's gonna grow too, but still, I'm like, that's crazy. But anyhow.

SPEAKER_00 38:58

Well, so Dylan didn't start therapy until he was like 15. You know, and I've encouraged it ever since because it definitely helps him because it's different talking to you or talking to me, or you know what I mean? It's in a complete stranger, and at first, like they would call me once a month and kind of just give me a recap, a recap. They wouldn't never tell me what he said or what they talked about, but they would and he didn't like that. Like he didn't like that, like he would make him mad, and I'm like, You're a minor in my house. Like they just they're telling me you're not gonna kill me in my sleep. Yeah, you know, kind of thing. And uh, and and but he, you know, he wanted it to be private, and now it is, and you know, and I when uh when he calls me and he's he sounds weird, uh he goes, I have an appointment Thursday at blah blah time or whatever, you know, and things like that. But she's she's not right. If her kid is having issues and she can't emotionally handle her own, then she needs to do what's right for that for that kid and let him talk to somebody.

SPEAKER_02 40:10

Because you what it brought it up, she said she was acting out like being mean to her sisters, and I'm like, well yeah, look what's you know what I mean? Like her her dad just got ate out on bond for vehicle homicide. He went to jail two nights before that for fighting at a graduation party, and which they were there and seen all of it. You know, it was a lot. Like I watched the video cam and like I had to turn it off. Like it made me cry at the first watching it because they were like they were all fighting him, and he was charging the cops, the cops was fighting him, and I'm thinking the girls seen this. Right. That was just for them, and so it made me so sad. Like I couldn't even go back and watch it for a little while. And um, so I'm like, if that made me feel like that, right, you know what I mean? Imagine what it made made them feel like so. But she does she does see a therapist, but um, I just feel like maybe she might need medicine, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 40:59

Maybe I mean I take it, and it helps me. Yeah, it helps me to stay in check. And I know I should pray and I should let God have it, and and and but when I don't take it, when I think I'm okay and I don't take it, I lash out because it's easier to be to feel cornered, and it's not that I can't control it, but when I feel cornered, I can't control it. Yeah, like when I feel cornered, the PTSD takes over. And it's a survival mode and it's something that I can't get I can't get past physically or emotionally.

SPEAKER_02 41:41

The doctor's wisdom to, you know what I mean? Like, and dad was even preaching on this. Uh he said, I don't know if he said it last Sunday or Sunday before. He's like, I mean, by all means, if you know, if you have a chemical imbalance or whatever, like go to the doctor, go take medicine. He's like, um, I'm sure people around you would appreciate that.

SPEAKER_01 41:58

That's your living.

SPEAKER_02 42:00

Okay, yeah. I mean, I take well butrin, I feel like it helps me. So does it help you focus? Well, I mean, it's supposed to. That's what I take it for. It was for I'm not gonna take a narcotic for ADHD or whatever. Right. No, I agree. So I feel like it does a little bit. I don't know. My brain's everywhere. So I feel like it does help a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 42:22

Hey, life is off. And I, you know, I I was I was thinking about this the other day. Uh, and I thought because they make fun of me at work, right? Because I've got 952 things going on at work. Like, and nothing ever seems to go away. Like it just keeps like when I think I knock it down by 100, 200 200 more pop up, right? And uh they they uh they bought me a picture of um the movie um oh what's the movie with the with the house and the balloons, the Disney movie with the house and the balloons and the old man. Anyway.

SPEAKER_02 43:03

I don't want TV.

SPEAKER_00 43:04

Uh well they and they so on in the movie there's a dog when they get to where they're gonna when they the balloons take the house off, there's a dog called Doug. And Doug is very hi, hey, hell, hi, I'm happy to see you. Hi, what you doing? What you doing? Squirrel. So they think that's me at work, and they make fun of me all the time. And I thought, if I wasn't on medicine, y'all would really see squirrel. Yeah.

unknown 43:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:30

I know what 18 conversations going on at one time.

unknown 43:33

I know.

SPEAKER_00 43:34

I didn't and I can't even focus at like at home, I can't do that. And that uh my husband sent me something this morning, and you know, he was like, I'm thankful for you. And you know, I yeah, I feel like I chose smartly and God give me the right person, and blah blah blah. And I was like, Oh, that's so sweet. I don't know why you think that. You know, that's what come to my head. That's hilarious. I know, because I'm like, I feel Like, you know, we talked about Steward and our blessings, right? And like, there's just some days like this house is too much and work is too much and it's life is too much. And this morning, uh I got up and you know, the HV, the air guy was coming to look at the unit upstairs because it's broken. And uh I got up and I had to vacuum real quick and wipe everything down and you know, because people were coming over. People were coming. I know, and I was like, oh my god, if I'd have just done this yesterday or the day before, it wouldn't be so much. But I've been so tired.

SPEAKER_02 44:38

I get it.

SPEAKER_00 44:40

My hormones. Paramenopause is so real.

SPEAKER_02 44:43

It is. Wait till y'all get this age.

SPEAKER_00 44:45

I know. After 45, you fall apart.

SPEAKER_02 44:49

You fall apart. No, I feel like we're not. We're not falling apart. We're in our prime. We're uh hormones are real. So I'm gonna speak that. We are we are energized 20 year olds.

SPEAKER_00 45:03

Uh you speak that all day long because Eve cursed us. That's funny. Because paramenopause is part of Eve's curse. Well, for eating the apple. It is.

SPEAKER_02 45:16

It's okay.

SPEAKER_00 45:16

Hot flashes, punk brain, all the things. We ain't gonna speak negativity. I love you. All right. So uh are we done? I think so. I think we are too. Okay. We've kind of talked about a lot of stuff today.

SPEAKER_02 45:35

Yeah, we did.

SPEAKER_00 45:36

I liked it. It just kind of went great.

SPEAKER_02 45:38

I mean, I could followed along.

SPEAKER_00 45:41

Yeah. I think we stayed on track for the most part. Yeah. Except for my little rant about having to pay for drug help. But still. I feel like we stayed on that topic like too much.

SPEAKER_02 45:52

Okay. All right. Press out. Lord, we love you. And we thank you, Lord, that um for this time. And Lord, I just pray that you would help us and the people that um maybe we could get an answer, Lord, these people that are wanting help. Um, because Shannon brought it to my attention now, and so I'm gonna be thinking about it. That these people that want to get help that can't afford help, Lord, help us to find ways to and resources, Jesus, that they could get help. And Lord, I just pray that um as we get ready for this conference, Lord, that you will just continue to connect us in ways that we can't even imagine or think, Lord, and I just thank you for all your blessings in Jesus' name. Amen.

SPEAKER_00 46:33

Amen. Amen. If you enjoyed this episode today, please share it with somebody. Get it out there. Uh, we will be posting the event on Facebook uh by the end of the week uh so that y'all can sign up to come to the women's conference uh that we are hosting. We are super, super excited. Uh, God has definitely given uh given me a word that I feel like a lot of women need to hear. Um and then I'm super excited about the panel and about the direction that I think we're gonna go in with it and having just different women in different stages and different seasons in life and in their faith, and have how it's how I feel like it's gonna go. So uh if you enjoyed it, please share. If you have any comments, please email us or uh uh find us on Facebook or TikTok and leave us a message. Just know that we love you and God loves you. Till next week. Bye bye.