EP 4: Kids Belong in Nature: How Outdoor Play Shapes Development with Kelsey Scholer

In this episode of The My Outdoorsy Mom Podcast, I’m joined by nature-based early childhood educator Kelsey Scholer of @amongthefairies on Instagram to talk about what happens when we let kids do what they were made to do—play outside. Kelsey shares her insight from working in a nature preschool, raising baby animals (aka children), and helping families reconnect with the rhythms of the natural world.

We chat about emotional regulation, the power of mixed-age play, and how something as simple as bird watching or meeting a neighbor can totally shift the way our kids experience childhood. If you’ve ever wondered what “nature-based learning” actually looks like or how to foster curiosity without overcomplicating things—this one’s for you.

🎧 Listen if you’ve been wondering…

• What exactly is nature-based education?

• How can I get my kid outside more—especially if they’re hesitant?

• Where do I start with neighborhood free play?

 Connect with Kelsey Scholer: 

Instagram → @amongthefairies

Website → amongthefairies.com

1:1 Consulting for parents → Available via her site

Where to Find Me:

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Transcript

Julianne Nienberg (00:00)

Welcome to the My Outdoorsy Mom podcast. I'm your host, Julianne Nienberg, mom of three, backyard adventure enthusiast, and your go-to gal for making memories outside with your kids. This is your space to ditch the pressure of perfect and embrace simple, soul-filling time in nature that fits real family life. Each week, we'll talk motherhood, nature play, travel, and entrepreneurship with honest stories, practical tips, and guest conversations that'll feel like chatting with a friend.

Whether you're raising wild little explorers or building a business during nap time, I see you. So grab your coffee, toss some snacks in your bag, and let's make some memories. This is the My Outdoorsy Mom podcast.

Julianne Nienberg (00:38)

Today, we're diving into something I know so many of you care about, getting kids outside in a way that's natural, unforced, and actually doable. Joining me is Kelsey Scholler, a nature-based early childhood educator and the human behind the Instagram account, Among the Fairies. Kelsey has nearly completed her master's in nature-based early childhood education and has spent years working at a nature preschool, helping kids learn, play, and grow in the great outdoors. She's passionate.

about showing parents that kids belong in nature, that outdoor play is one of the best enrichment activities we can offer, and that getting outside doesn't have to be complicated. Today, we're talking about the power of nature and childhood development, how parents can make outdoor time a natural part of their routine, and why we need to bring back neighborhood free play. Kelsey, welcome to the podcast.

Kelsey (01:26)

Hi, thanks so much for having me.

Julianne Nienberg (01:29)

I love your passion because it literally exudes out of you in your content and the way that you view each child in your preschool and their uniqueness. And I feel, I can feel that you really cherish their uniqueness. And I loved learning that you had a passion for nature-based learning all the way back in high school when you read Last Child in the Woods, which by the way, I'm so impressed that one...

You read that in high school. I want to know, was that a part of your curriculum or was that something you sought out on your own? And what about it resonated so deeply with you?

Kelsey (02:02)

Yeah, so that was actually something I picked up on my own. I've always been a reader. I was actually in a positive psychology class in high school, which that alone is a whole nother story and really changed my life in a lot of great ways. But part of the class was actually, our homework was actually to meditate outdoors in nature. And so I was, you know, 16 years old or something like that doing this homework, which was truly life-changing.

And I started to get so curious about why that felt so healing and what the human connection was there. And so I dug into some, you what can I read about this? Some books and came across Last Child in the Woods. So that's kind of how I came about it. Last Child in the Woods really opened the doors to nature-based learning for me. And I started to, you know, think about the future and how I wanted to be a part of this field. And it's kind of all...

come from there.

Julianne Nienberg (02:52)

That's incredible.

I just actually recently read it and it's been one of those books that I know that I should read it and when I finally got around to it. And of course, everything made sense as someone who is such an advocate for nature-based childhood and learning. some of the statistics and some of the studies and things that he talks about and how the loss of green spaces for kids to just simply play and just how we look at the communities that we live in and the development of communities and our

Are our communities valuing green space that's natural and not in a, you know, in like, hey, let's plop a playground down here, but are we valuing, you know, places for kids to get lost in the woods, right? that really resonated with me because I think to my childhood and the memories that I cherish most are just having the ability to run around in the woods with friends.

of the memories that I cherish the most from my childhood is just having space to get lost in to explore. And I think that's so much of childhood now. is just

the over structuredness, over scheduling of children's childhoods. And that's what I love. When I come to your account, I see these kids who are just living their best lives outdoors and everything is so simple, the way they're discovering things. walk us through what a typical day in your nature-based preschool looks like.

Kelsey (04:12)

Mm-hmm.

Sure, yeah. So for those who don't know, I work at a preschool in Virginia. just starting with what is nature preschool, we spend 90 % of our day outside. You know, that's probably not exact, but we are outside in all weather except for very dangerous weather. And we are, yeah, it's play-based. So we're playing.

The children arrive outside to our outdoor classroom, which has a mud kitchen. It has a big hill. It has a tunnel. It also has picnic tables and a hand washing station. So, you know, we, are kind of grounded in this space that feels like it's meeting preschoolers needs. And they arrive and they can either choose to go and run right into outdoor free play and have, you know, those big gross motor.

Julianne Nienberg (04:48)

.

Kelsey (05:02)

skill activities or we set up a what I call a soft start, which is usually some kind of natural material and play offering for the children who want to come in and ease into the day. We eat our morning snack outside and then we kind of transition around 10 a.m. into a morning gathering where we're all, you know, greeting the day, greeting Mother Nature, looking at the weather. And it's very developmentally appropriate because

You know, I feel like a lot of times, at least in my childhood and my preschool experience, we would do the calendar and we would do, you know, we would do the weather, but it didn't really connect to what I was experiencing because we were indoors and everything just felt so disconnected and abstract from my daily life. And these kids are literally looking up at the sky and telling me it's cloudy, it's windy, whatever it may be. And.

So that's just, I really feel like our morning gathering is so special and unique for that reason. It's very connected. And a lot of times, you know, we have, we, the teachers kind of have a plan for the day and I'll kind of get into what we, we do. But a lot of times something in nature will be happening literally in that moment. And the other day, two hawks like swooped down during morning gathering and it was like, whoa, like, you know, nature just really presents itself when you, when you are outside and you are available to it.

And then we slip into a daily lesson. So we try to plan things that are seasonal. We really look at what phenomena will be happening in nature at a given time and we follow those children's interests. So, you know, they've been super interested in storms and tornadoes. And so we did this, you know, these past few weeks in March, we focused on weather and really given them that vocabulary and done a bunch of different things with weather. So that's our daily lesson and

It usually involves art, movement, play, some kind of nature investigation, like a deep dive. And then after that, we might go to one of our core routines. So that varies by the day, but we do gardening, obviously,

Julianne Nienberg (06:56)

Hmm.

Kelsey (06:57)

when the weather allows. We do yoga, we do a lot of social emotional learning, really holistic mind, body, soul type of whole type of social emotional learning.

And we do those core routines. And then after that, again, we're outdoors and we're playing. A lot of times kids will kind of get on a track for the day, for example, bug hunting or something like that. And so it'll be an hour of bug hunting. And so they just get, they get this, again, this whole body experience and you mentioned they're living their best lives, right? Like they are really just living out their inner desires and

Julianne Nienberg (07:17)

Okay.

Kelsey (07:31)

there's boundaries and there's, you know, we're going to learn how to live in community together. And that's the expectation, but we really value what they're interested in. We value their hypotheses about the world. And we use that as the vehicle for learning.

Julianne Nienberg (07:47)

You know, you talked about something and I think it kind of follows into my next question for you. if you're a parent who is interested in looking at a nature based preschool for your kids, what would you recommend that they be looking for or mindful for when they are seeking out nature based, preschool programs?

Kelsey (08:07)

I love this question because I think the first time that you're looking at school, even if it's preschool for your child, can feel really daunting. It can feel like, you you have to find a school that hits all these different standards and it has to be, you know, it's end all be all for your child. And so the stakes start to feel like they're so high and that there are all these standards. But the things that I would focus on since

Julianne Nienberg (08:24)

.

Kelsey (08:31)

you're choosing, you know, if you're listening to this podcast and you're interested in nature-based learning, you're probably someone who cares more about your child and their wellbeing and their happiness than worksheets or than, you know, following directions, sort of like little soldiers. So I would say take a look, you know, if you go for a tour, take a look at what the children are doing. Take a look at some of the work that's on the wall or some of the play that's on the wall.

Julianne Nienberg (08:48)

.

Kelsey (08:59)

and try to think to yourself, you know, what, what does this represent? You know, are they, are there a bunch of worksheets on the wall? Well, that probably tells you that they're not, you know, moving and playing all day long. But if you see kids, you know, with, you know, plants that are in pots and things are, I'm thinking so spring, cause we're in spring right

now. you can see that the learning is alive and that's a great sign. because.

You know, you really want to choose a school where your child will feel alive every day and excited to go there. And so those are some signs. And I would also ask just about that daily routine and how much play your child is getting in that setting, because, you know, research shows, and I feel like a broken record, but if, your child has a play-based childhood, they will be so successful later on in school. If you're actually trying to push those academics earlier.

it might cause some issues later on. So looking out for moments of play-based learning and hoping that that's kind of the priority of the school. And then that goes right in hand with how much time they do spend outside.

Julianne Nienberg (10:00)

I love something that you mentioned earlier when you talked about, kids

they might find themselves immersed in a bug hunt. you sometimes as a parent, I think, okay, gosh, how long is this activity gonna, you know, really take up? Is it gonna be 20 minutes? Cause that's 20 minutes I'll take it. But sometimes, you know, what I found is when you let your child lead in their interests and you let them show you what they're interested in. Like you said, that bug hunt goes from 15 minutes to an hour.

And they are just having a ball and they're so fixated on learning and they're looking for every single bug outside. And I love that, you know, that almost like child directed learning that they're really showing you what they're interested in. And when you're outside that gosh, there's so much to be interested in. There's so much that naturally peaks their curiosity. One of the things too that I love from following you is your

Kelsey (10:27)

Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Julianne Nienberg (10:50)

I don't know if it's, you enjoy it, but it certainly looks like that you enjoy thrifting and I have to tell you, I am the same way. And so, you know, if you're a parent who's watching you in your Instagram account, and I'll make sure to link Kelsey's Instagram account in the show notes. If you're a parent who maybe you're not, you know, sending your kids to a play base or preschool in general, and you're just wanting to, you know, build and foster a curiosity for the outdoors.

Kelsey (10:55)

Yes.

Julianne Nienberg (11:17)

with your child. could be maybe like an infancy or early toddlerhood. What are some things that I know you, you you spend time talking about this or just like loose parts that really help to facilitate and foster curiosity for the outdoors and some of these things you find, I know you find them thrifting, which I love to do as well. So what can parents just be looking for that tend to lean more natural materials that can help their kids get into being outside and discovering?

Kelsey (11:44)

That's a great question. I love it because I do it combines two things that I love so much. And I always I make excuses to go to the thrift store for for this purpose. For preschool. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I would start I love the thrift store to support my mud kitchen and and the tools needed there. If you have younger ones, I would lean towards kind of hard plastic things. The metal can kind of be heavy or you know,

Julianne Nienberg (11:49)

It's a good.

Me too, me too.

Kelsey (12:13)

If they don't really have control of their large motor skills, they might be swinging that pot around. So go for some large buckets, plastic buckets, if you can find kind of pot-shaped things and spoons, tongs are really great. These sort of tools that support playing with natural elements like mud and rocks and sticks. And if you don't know what a mud kitchen is, well, we need to set up a mud kitchen for you.

Julianne Nienberg (12:36)

Yeah.

Kelsey (12:37)

And it can be done for really, really, you know, on a budget at the thrift store. You know, you can have either, you can get things from the thrift store and at your home, you can have a little kitchen set up like a play kitchen, or you can just have tables and pots and pans and mud. So that's a great thing. Another thing I really love from the thrift store, and I've kind of, I'm on the mission for more of it, is interesting fabrics. So,

Julianne Nienberg (13:01)

Hmm.

Kelsey (13:02)

Fabrics are a great way to have like an intro to shelter building, which is a child passion

that just grows as they get older. Building forts and, you know, getting cozy little hideouts and sheets, you know, big white sheets and fabric are a great way to support that for younger children who might not be able to pick up that big log and build the fort. Some other things I always look out at the thrift store for are nature books. So whether that's field guides or

Julianne Nienberg (13:19)

Hmm. Hmm.

Kelsey (13:29)

books about nature. And then I always go to, I don't know about, I go to Goodwill and they have like a wood, wooden section. And it's like cutting boards and little, you know, wooden bits and bobs. And I always find the greatest loose parts there. I have, we always have to be careful of, you know, the size of the loose parts. We want things that are not choking hazards. We want things that are

Julianne Nienberg (13:36)

Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (13:51)

you know, safe for kids, but that section always has these great little random items, know, little wooden cubes or wooden balls, and I'm not sure what they're used for, but I'll use them in my classroom.

Julianne Nienberg (14:03)

Right. They're little tchotchkes, right? Just little tchotchkes.

Kelsey (14:03)

Yeah, exactly, and the kids just die for them. They love them.

Julianne Nienberg (14:10)

That's so true. I think back to when my kids were really little and back in 2020, I had three under three, And I remember looking at Pinterest and seeing all these beautiful, like super aesthetic mud kitchens. I'm like, well, I don't have time to make that or curate that or how, what do I do? And I remember taking a look around in my kitchen. I'm like, what do I have? And I had one of those big canisters with like the spigot.

Kelsey (14:22)

Mm.

Mm-hmm.

Julianne Nienberg (14:35)

you know, you could turn and water would pour from it. And so I would fill that up and it was glass. So there was definitely like a kind of a dangerous element there, like really trusting my toddlers to handle this giant glass jar. And I just put it outside on a random, wooden plank that we had. We live on a wooded property. We had a random wood plank. We had two stumps. put the wood plank over the two stumps and poured the water in there. I gave them some cups and they had a field day.

Kelsey (14:42)

Yeah.

Julianne Nienberg (15:01)

And I think every parent comes to learn water makes everything better. if someone's cranky, just add water, whether it's you give them a bath, you know, or bubbles or a water table, water just makes everything better. And so they would go out there and they would pour. They learned how to control pouring. They learned how to make sure that it didn't spill over. Cause I tell them, you know, you get this much water and you gotta learn how to use what you have. And they would play, you know, in toddler.

time, an hour is for parents, that's gold. if I can get my kids to do something and play independently for one hour, that is gold. So I love how you're encouraging, some of these things. I mean, they're just, they're not even toys at all. They're things that we use in our everyday lives. if you're a parent, you can remember that your kids love to play with things that they see you,

Kelsey (15:30)

yeah.

Julianne Nienberg (15:48)

working with or dealing with every single day. So that's why they love the pots and pans in the kitchen because they want to emulate what you're doing. And that is something that's so easy to bring to an outdoor space, like cups, scoops, spoons, all that stuff. I also love supporting my local thrift stores as well. go to mine is like a salvation army and I was just there this week actually. And you know what, I love that you recommend it also to look for books because I do tend to look for books for my older.

Kelsey (16:04)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Julianne Nienberg (16:15)

my older daughter who's like leaning into chapter books, but I didn't even think about looking for field guides or nature guides and things like that. And those are great places to, you know, grow your library on a budget.

Kelsey (16:22)

Yeah.

Yeah, and even what I really love looking for in the thrift store in the book section is like coffee table books because I have found some amazing, they're like nature photography coffee table books. And my kids love that because similar to the way that they see grownups using these tools in the kitchen and outdoors, they see us with, real books, or, know, with those real images and they feel a bit more elevated and a bit more scientific and they just, they...

Julianne Nienberg (16:32)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (16:51)

They're obsessed with them. Yeah.

Julianne Nienberg (16:54)

I always think, you know, I feel like one of the easiest, I want to say indoor ways to get kids excited about the outdoors is to give them books. To your point, to have something tangible that they can flip through. I, I'm not the type to give my kids my phone to, like look at things or to flip through or scroll, even if it was beautiful imagery, you know, I wouldn't encourage them to,

look at my phone for beautiful nature photography, but to have a book that's laid out in front of them for them to feel, to have that tactile experience and to see this beautiful imagery, there is something to be said. And I think it just naturally peaks their curiosity. You know, if they see something in an image and then they look up and look around them, these neurons are starting to fire and they're making these connections from what they see in front of them in a book to the natural world. So I think you're so right about that. I think that's a great tip for parents to just be

seeking out books and while it's great to read to your children I'm always an advocate for reading for them. There's something to be said about just laying out books in front of them and letting them explore that on their own.

Kelsey (17:52)

Right, it's the exposure, right? And then they'll extend the learning themselves. Like you said, the neurons are firing and they'll make those connections back to it when they're out in nature. And it might happen a month later, which is always impressive. And it's just, it's the way their brain works. It's amazing.

Julianne Nienberg (17:57)

Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

Yeah, one thing I did want to ask you about because I've seen it, you know with my own kids Preschool whether it's nature-based or traditional preschool, Each of my kids has been different when it comes to preschool My first born was very clingy at first right my second born was actually kind of clingy and my third being the youngest and he's seen the other two going off He's like bye mom. See you later. But as a parent, if it's your first time sending your child

Kelsey (18:26)

Thank

Julianne Nienberg (18:30)

to a preschool, a nature-based preschool, there are bound to be children who have a hard time separating from parents. what kind of shifts do you see in children from the start of the semester to the end that could encourage parents to know that like, this is the right thing for my kids?

Kelsey (18:46)

Yeah, this is such a common experience. It's almost 50-50, I would say, in our preschool class, children who just separate right away and those who take some more time. I would say there's a couple of things that I think the natural world supports this. Firstly, mother nature, I have seen time and time again, just holds children so well. There's something about this predictable environment

That is always changing with the seasons, right? But it is always this, this, know that tree and I know this hill will always be here. And so coming into that space repeatedly is going to give that safety over time. the other piece of it that I actually have an example from today, it was just the most amazing thing. A child was having a hard time separating. this plays into our social emotional learning as well. So we were doing all the things.

But the thing that made the switch was, you know, she was crying and kind of just really upset, whimpering kind of next to me in this outdoor, you know, we have this little like cove that we go to if, we're feeling sad or we're some type of way. And she was crying, crying. And you know, nothing I was really saying was helping her, you know, soothe her. But suddenly there was a moment of silence and we heard a bird.

Julianne Nienberg (19:50)

Okay.

Mm.

Kelsey (19:59)

And that bird was on this branch right over us. was like the bird had no problem being close to us and we got to benefit from that. And we both looked up at it. Didn't say a word, just watched the bird tweeting. And you know that for children, I believe that was the first time that she ever saw a bird tweeting that close. You you hear it, but you don't see the bird that's making that noise. And so she was just

in total awe and in total fascination. And so in a way,

Julianne Nienberg (20:23)

Mm

Kelsey (20:25)

Nature works as this kind of natural redirection for emotions. it's a almost a distraction, but in a good way, it's kind of takes your brain off of the problem and then it soothes you. it touches your nervous system in a way that really almost nothing can and gets you back to that. You know, your heartbeat is slower and your breathing is more regulated. And what we know about, you know,

Julianne Nienberg (20:33)

hmm.

Kelsey (20:48)

emotions is that that's the first step is getting that.

body to be regulated and ready to, solve the problem that is causing the emotion. yeah, nature is the other teacher in the room, in the outdoors. It's really helpful. And that's not the only time that's happened. You know, we've had many, many instances where the breeze will blow and it's the same effect.

Julianne Nienberg (21:11)

You know, isn't it so powerful, like you said, that nature,

it can redirect, but also soothe. know, there's just so much literature out there that being outside helps to calm and regulate the nervous system, whether you're an adult or a child. what you just shared with us is just the prime example of how being outside and feeling the fresh air and hearing the sounds is just naturally regulating your nervous system. And so I, you know, I have a kiddo that

Kelsey (21:18)

Mm-hmm.

Julianne Nienberg (21:40)

tends to be clingy and you know, if there was a bird that swooped in, of course, yeah, they go, you know, their mind would just be redirected to this cool thing that just entered the picture. that's something that can't be replicated inside, right? Like you could see a bird through a window, but you can't, gotta stay inside. You can't follow it. And I just love that, you painted this picture of something happening outside that not only redirected your student, but also provided this calming and soothing moment.

Kelsey (21:44)

Yeah.

Julianne Nienberg (22:06)

And that's, isn't that the most beautiful thing about being, being outside and teaching kiddos outside.

Kelsey (22:11)

It's the best, yeah. And I think also, I'll just add that

the separation, anxiety or upset really never lasts long because they are so excited to be in the space. That's the other thing, right? It's like, this is their natural habitat. They can't stay away from their friends who are playing for too long. They're excited to get out there too. So yeah, it just provides all these benefits for these moments of upset.

Julianne Nienberg (22:20)

Mm-hmm.

I see your content and these kids are having so much fun and I've seen it in my own children, my son did a fall semester in a nature based preschool and they're just.

outside doing the most simple things. The teachers are letting them slide down a mud hill over and over and over again, and they're just walking through the woods, and they're getting to just see and observe what's happening around them. I wish that every child had access to a nature-based school or programming. And I do believe that it's becoming more common that we're seeing more programs.

Kelsey (22:48)

Yes.

Julianne Nienberg (23:09)

coming here, I know that when you're reading books like Last Child in the Woods or There's No Such Thing as Bad Weather, I remember reading that book years ago and thinking, why aren't more schools doing this? Why aren't more people doing this here in America? Why is this not a thing? And over the last few years, mean, my oldest is now seven or turning eight. And I have just seen more and more communities value nature-based learning and begin to implement

Kelsey (23:22)

Mm-hmm.

Julianne Nienberg (23:34)

know, programs, whether it's through the public school district or, you know, it's moms coming together and starting their own nature-based programs, which I love. it's such a beautiful and powerful way to be an advocate for nature-based learning is to simply start your own.

Kelsey (23:50)

Yeah, exactly. I

know. I'm so excited about the trajectory of the movement. of course, since the pandemic, know, more and more people were outside and doing school outside. And then think people started to realize, wait, this is amazing. Let's keep doing it. And I do love to see, you know, the moms who are starting their own, whether it's a homeschool co-op or a nature preschool.

Julianne Nienberg (24:04)

Yes!

Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (24:12)

because it's so local and it's so individualized to that group of children. It's such a beautiful thing. that just ties into this idea of community revival and this need for people to value a childhood outdoors and a play-based childhood. So I'm happy to see it and it gives me hope.

Julianne Nienberg (24:17)

Mm hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Me too. I know you're really excited about, you you mentioned just your passion for this idea of neighborhood free play and community revival. I want to hear in your own words, what does that look like to you? Why is it so important? I think when we hear neighborhood free play, I know I'm a millennial mom. And so I think back to my childhood and it's like, that's just what we did, right?

When you hear from moms of my generation or parents of my generation, that's just what we did. And to think now that that it has a term, you know, that it's, being studied and that kids aren't having that same opportunity is just jaw dropping and really eye opening. So when you talk about, your excitement for neighborhood free play, what exactly do you mean and what can parents do who are raising little ones now to kind of foster this sense of.

free play in your neighborhood.

Kelsey (25:21)

Yes. So it's a topic that I've been interested in personally, not only because I had a similar experience to you, just I was always playing with my neighbors. The kids of the block would just be outside all the time. We even had little signals like when our garage door is up, that means we're ready to play type of thing. I've been in this nature-based learning world and I've

It's amazing and there's so much still to do in it, but I'm also seeing the need for this type of living, not only learning, just living once the kids get home from school, right? And, know, into their older years, a lot of times, which does need to change, but a lot of times kids, you know, they only have a nature preschool if they have that available until kindergarten age, and then they'll go on to a more traditional school. And so what happens to those kids? They'll

Julianne Nienberg (25:55)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (26:11)

They'll go to school at a traditional school and then come home and they're inside. So

Julianne Nienberg (26:16)

Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (26:17)

I'm really passionate about this, this idea that, you know, we need neighborhood play. That's something that we almost maybe took for granted. And now we've kind of moved indoors. We've come into this more kind of convenient lifestyle, but it's really isolated us. And so I think moms with young ones or honestly, even people who are thinking they might want children one day type of thing.

I would just say knock on your neighbor's door, bake them cookies or do what you need to do to make that connection. And over time, I feel like it's a personal shift and a community shift. You'll start to trust more that you know these people and that they, if they saw your kid, I don't know, getting too close to the street or whatever in some kind of danger that they would do something and they would help your child.

Julianne Nienberg (26:48)

Mm hmm.

Kelsey (27:04)

you we hope that anybody would do that, but knowing that your neighbor

is there and you know, you have their phone number and you have all these things kind of helps you be more, you know, trusting of them, your children going out and doing free play. I also think it's important for parents to know each other and hang out with each other. I know.

a family near me who has really revived their neighborhood connections. They have like a Friday pizza night and it's as easy as everybody pitching in and they are buying pizzas and the kids like, it's like, well, what are the kids doing? They're just playing. They know what to do. And the, yeah, their parents get to chat that feels like what I had as a child. And I know that I got so many benefits from that. And the research shows that.

Julianne Nienberg (27:27)

Mm.

Yeah.

Kelsey (27:49)

it's a trust process and it's a connection process and it is so important. what we miss when we're at nature based preschool

is that, mixed age play, right? some are generally mixed age, but when you're in a neighborhood, you could have anywhere from infants to teenagers. and that kind of range is so important for children because they're able to learn from each other. They're able to have that.

sort of cultural transmission across ages. And that will take a lot of the burden off of parents

Julianne Nienberg (28:16)

hmm.

Kelsey (28:21)

because older kids can take on responsibility, right? It's like, hey, go in the backyard while I cook dinner and then you have that quiet house to cook dinner in. How nice is that? So I think it's a lot of leaning on each other and it's a slow process and it's a localized process. And I think it really takes individuals kind of popping up and making those connections in their own neighborhoods.

Julianne Nienberg (28:43)

I think you're so right about so much of that. And I want to also add to I think sometimes we get in our heads about

you know, well, I don't live in a subdivision or I don't live in this and that. And we had our first two kids in Chicago and you know, none of us had huge backyards, but what we did a lot with our neighbors on a Friday night, we would set up like card tables just on the sidewalks, on the city sidewalks. And the kids would play on the sidewalks or like our tiny little, tiny little front yards. And you would just talk with your neighbors or you'd have a block party, you know, every summer it was like every.

Every street had their own block party. So like if you lived on this street, you'd have your own block party on one Saturday. And then the next week it was like the next street over. They'd have a block party you'd get city permits to like shut down the block and your kids would just play. They'd ride their bikes around. And so, you know, I think a lot of times parents think, well, I don't have a backyard. I don't have a front yard. I don't live in a subdivision, but just this community, like this idea of neighborhood free play.

can be for anyone. If you have a neighbor, whether they're down the road or living side by side and right next to each other, this can be achieved. I think it's easy to get discouraged if we're not thinking of just like the picture perfect suburban lifestyle. But I can tell you that some of our most fun nights, we're just like setting up a

Kelsey (29:40)

Thank you.

Julianne Nienberg (29:57)

a little card table out in our little Chicago street with our neighbors and somebody would bring a pizza, somebody would bring out some chips and the kids would just play on the city sidewalks. And it was such a blast. So I loved that you said that. And it reminded me of that season of life that we had. it's like you said, it's a building community and it's getting to know your neighbors. And the benefit of that mixed age play is

Kelsey (30:06)

Yeah.

Julianne Nienberg (30:19)

You know, naturally the little kids at least mine do gravitate towards the big kids because they just think they're like, they're cool. They're bigger. And then as a parent, you're like, yes, I've got an extra set of hands and eyes to watch over my kids. So there are so many benefits to that mixed age play that, I think gets lost a lot in a traditional school setting. my kids are really lucky. They go to a school where there's, see a lot of mixed age play and a lot of

Kelsey (30:26)

Mm-hmm.

right.

Julianne Nienberg (30:45)

I'm getting the older kids involved in like today. It's been reading month. I think they had the fifth graders come down and like reading with the first graders and kindergarten kids. And so they naturally, they get this, you know, infused throughout their school days. And there's something so valuable about that, right?

Kelsey (31:02)

Absolutely. For the younger one and the older one, the older one takes on this role of, I have a responsibility and I have to be a role model. it's human nature to live up to that. I think it's great all around. And I really love that you mentioned that this can be done anywhere. there are nature preschools in cities all over. And so absolutely, it can be done anywhere. Your environment is...

Julianne Nienberg (31:12)

Yes. Yes.

Kelsey (31:26)

important, but it's not an exclusionary factor by any means. The people around you are what will bring those

Julianne Nienberg (31:33)

Absolutely.

Kelsey (31:34)

connections and creativity and fun.

Julianne Nienberg (31:39)

I want to make sure we have time to talk about this because I remember did you go to Croatia? Was it just this summer? And you taught in Croatia. How did this opportunity bring itself to you? I want to hear everything like just culturally, you know, the things that you saw and was it a nature based preschool or nature based school that you taught at?

Kelsey (31:41)

Yeah.

Yes.

Yes,

yes it was. So yes, so that was the field school of Hvar and it was on Hvar Island in Croatia. And actually the director reached out to me through Instagram. So thank goodness for social media. Sometimes it's just such a great thing. But yeah, we really connected on a lot of things, know, nature-based learning being the main thing. And so I went out and it was the first year of the program. So it was sort of a pilot summer.

Julianne Nienberg (32:06)

Wow.

Kelsey (32:25)

as a summer camp sort of thing. But we did nature-based education and that was just so great for me as an educator to do this in a different setting than my woodsy kind of feel back home and to do it on an island and in the Mediterranean. so yeah, it was really wonderful. We actually didn't have an indoor spot at all that summer. So we were totally outside and it was a blast.

Culturally, Croatia is, they value childhood and they value nature. The program itself was a lot of international families. the great thing about that was that people came from all over, but they had these values that, you know, I want my kid to be outside. I want them to be in a space that values their interests and values their ideas and that they get to play because

I mean, what is life without playing in the Mediterranean sea? Come on. You

can't put them inside when that's outside. Yeah.

Julianne Nienberg (33:25)

You're right. That sounds

idyllic. I had a conversation with another woman just yesterday and she had, picked up and traveled the world with her husband and her toddler and baby. And this emphasis on how much other cultures value children. They value families. They value nature. And she said that was one of the biggest things that made traveling

actually a lot easier. as a parent, you think of taking your kids to a faraway place and away from all the modern day conveniences that we have, or just the things that we're familiar with. automatically a lot of parents think that it's going to be really hard and really challenging. And she said, that's what made it easy is just the fact that children were so embraced in so many different cultures.

Kelsey (34:03)

Go.

Mm-hmm.

Julianne Nienberg (34:08)

I told her I'm like, I'm just struggling. Like I just want like a restaurant in my community where I can have a good meal and just let my kid run around and not get stares that my kids are like out running feral at this restaurant.

Kelsey (34:17)

Right. Exactly. Yeah. And I mean, and that's

part of it, right? That's part of this idea of community revival is that really we have to value childhood and we have to look to children for these ideas and this fun, we can't be shutting them out of society. They bring life. You know, what would we be without children? And so I think

Yeah, shifting communities towards this idea of free play and the children are outside and the children are visible, will kind of aid in that. I'm right there with you. It's so nice to travel to other countries where they have this kind of just as a, you know, it never went away. They've always valued children and they still do. It's just beautiful and you feel it, right? You just really feel it.

Julianne Nienberg (34:43)

Okay.

Yes, and from what I've seen, you you have like the little old ladies in the in the little, villages and neighborhoods who just come and love on the babies and love on the kids and they're, you it seems almost like here in America, I'm constantly on edge when I'm taking my kids out, like, OK, who is going to get mad that we're just like my kids are running? We I was at a restaurant Tuesday I was just trying to.

Kelsey (35:08)

Yes.

Julianne Nienberg (35:21)

you know, enjoy a nice conversation with my friend who also had her kids out. And then my kids were running around the restaurant. And I'm like, geez, you know, I got to corral them in. And I'm just thinking about how my kids are perhaps like stressing out other diners and, know, everyone turned out to be really accommodating and just really engaging with the kids. But as a parent here in America, I have to say, I think that's always like your first thought is like, okay, like

you know, how do I mitigate my kids just running around or how do I manage or corral them and keep them from disturbing the peace, wherever we are. And it just goes to show you the rest of the world that is actually valuing these little kids are running around and just being kids. So I love that you got to see that. And that was for just the summer and you came back to your school for the fall. Okay.

Kelsey (35:45)

Mm-hmm.

No.

Mm-hmm.

Yes, yes,

exactly. Yeah, I'm still, you know, in connection with them this school in Croatia is moving towards being a year round school and it's just amazing. So definitely check it out if you're interested in living with like-minded people on an island in the Mediterranean. Sounds amazing.

Julianne Nienberg (36:13)

Yeah. Well, know, year

round in the Mediterranean is a whole lot different than year round in, where you are and where I am. I'm in Michigan. I have to be honest because I enrolled my son for the fall, which fall is a really easy time to be going to an outdoor preschool. It's like,

the best weather, it's like sweatshirt weather, and it's not quite winter coat weather. And then I had to be real with myself about the winter. And it's not that I don't love winter, I love winter, but I think for me, it was just the logistics of having two, my three kids at two different schools. But talk to me about, how to help parents be comfortable with the idea of being outside all year, because I have heard comments from parents who show great concern that,

You mean my toddlers are going to be outside all day? they get worried that that's dangerous. how can parents be more comfortable with this idea of being outside year round?

Kelsey (37:11)

we're coming out of winter here in Virginia and I got to say it's been a long winter. it's definitely the hardest season to be outdoors. I think first just acknowledging that is really helpful and kind of managing expectations is also helpful because it can be really hard. I'm sure. I mean, I'm not a parent, but I'm sure parents see things, you know, on social media about

Yeah, we're outside in all weather and we're perfectly happy and good. And it's like, well,

Julianne Nienberg (37:35)

Yeah.

Kelsey (37:36)

that's not the case for me. yeah, I totally want to put it out there that it's hard. But there are ways to mitigate that. And so I would say it all comes down to gear, right? We want the right gear. We want to have a base layer of wool. We want to be doing those things.

and doing them for ourselves, right? Because we don't want to be miserable or being the ones who are saying, maybe we should go back inside. I'm getting cold when our kids are having fun. So making sure that you and the child are dressed well. Thrift stores are great for picking up clothing.

That's important. Definitely get dressed well. But beyond that, you know, I think going outside for short periods of time is, a great start. So starting with 20 minutes and then coming back in and warming up. And that's what we do some days at nature preschool. That's all we get up to is 20 minutes in some time, 20 minutes out, some time inside 20 minutes back out. And that's it. because you know, it, it just is that freezing cold, but look for the days that are just, you can handle it and try to stay out a little bit more.

If you are in a place where you can start a fire, try that because fires just entranced children and adults. It's one of those human things and they'll stay warm that way. And so they'll be happy to be outside. But yeah, it's definitely something to manage. So you don't want your child to become too cold and you want to be checking on that. But just know that we were outside and in...

Julianne Nienberg (38:36)

.

Kelsey (38:59)

very freezing temperatures and some of our kids were sweating because of how much we were moving and how well we were dressed. They were actually taking a layer off here and there. So it's totally doable to stay warm enough. Keep moving, put on some dance songs if you need some inspiration, get moving that way and remind yourself that winter doesn't last forever.

Julianne Nienberg (39:20)

It's so true. We are coming

out of our winter in Michigan too. you know, I had a similar situation with my son who was in the nature based preschool and it was towards the end of the semester. So we're getting into December. We're having freezing cold weather. And by the time I picked him up, I felt him and he was, he was hot. I mean, he was so hot underneath all his layers under his balaclava. And I'm like, okay, great. So, you know, I, had no concern that he wouldn't be warm enough, but it was just, affirmation that the

Kelsey (39:38)

Mm-hmm.

Julianne Nienberg (39:48)

All the layering helps. And the more layers, you know, you've got your base layer, your mid layer, your outer layer. If you can do that, chances are you can stay out for a lot longer than you probably think. And I love your tip and just aiming for 20 minutes because when I was in the thick of raising three kids under the age of three, that's all we did is I said, we're going to go out for 15 minutes. And sometimes getting all the gear on took longer than the time that we were out there for, but it was just that consistent.

Kelsey (39:50)

Yes.

Julianne Nienberg (40:15)

flexing that muscle and teaching my kids how to, put their gear on, help them learn how to put their gear on independently. And even if it was only for 15 minutes outside, we just aimed to do it every single day so that it became part of our natural rhythm. 15 minutes, I always say it's kind of like the gateway because 15 minutes, can pass by really quickly. And then all of a sudden you're out there for 30 minutes and then it just continues to grow and grow. So

I love that you shared that advice as well.

Kelsey (40:41)

Mm Yeah. there's there's are some kind of simple activities that I'll just throw out there. Looking for animal tracks in the snow is one you know, that'll grab your child and just keep them out there. I have a resource on my website for that that makes it really easy to kind of match up animal tracks. and just this idea that you are getting a glimpse of the day no matter the weather, right? I think important part.

Julianne Nienberg (41:04)

what are some easy ways that parents can get their kids outside where, you know, coming from spring into summer, I mean, this is a really great time.

for parents to be just fostering curiosity for nature with their kids. What are some easy ways that they can do that?

Kelsey (41:17)

Yeah, I would say this time of year, for me at least, it's all about gardening. think that's a great way to get started. Even for adults, I I don't know. I've met a lot of people who haven't guarded before and it's wonderful. Try it out. Start a little garden. you're in an environment where you don't have your own space to do an outdoor garden, start some potted plants. And that's a great way to start getting in touch with the soil and this idea of life cycle.

I love bird watching. That's something personally I've become very into. I I am getting old or something. But kids, kids, love it. And they can start to do, as young as two and three, they can start to do sit spots. So sitting in a place, trying to stay quiet and listen to the birds, that's a wonderful way to kind of start. And again, it's these little increments of time where

you're shooting for five minutes here. You know, we're not trying to sit and meditate for an hour. We're really getting those little glimpses. Get your kids some tools, some shovels and rakes. That'll really get them out there and moving. There's just so much to do. we get into summer, water play is, you you said before, just add water. They can really spend hours in water. And they're learning so much about it.

Julianne Nienberg (42:09)

Okay.

Kelsey (42:30)

They're learning so much through it. Buoyancy and weight and volume, it's all in there and they're experiencing it so that they're kind of primed for later learning. these simple things that you can just offer time and time again and your children will love them, that's what the key is. And making it easy for yourself, that's I think the best place to start.

Julianne Nienberg (42:32)

Mm hmm.

Yes, making it easy for yourself. Every parent wants just simple things that they feel like they can actually achieve. And also, I think you made a great point of just, you know, managing your own expectations, I think, as a parent of knowing that some of these activities sometimes are five minutes, like sit spot

Kelsey (43:00)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Julianne Nienberg (43:09)

Water play is usually a great way to get kids engaged for longer periods of time. But some days, know what, some people just aren't feeling it and that's okay too. I wanted to ask you, do you have the bird app where you can record? Yes.

Kelsey (43:21)

Yes,

yes, I am constantly like trying to whip it out really quick so that I could catch it. Yeah

Julianne Nienberg (43:25)

Yes. Me

too. I shared that with so many people and I got made fun of. My friends were teasing me but I'm like, but have you actually tried it? Have you actually taken out? Because we went to a park once and...

Kelsey (43:36)

Right.

Julianne Nienberg (43:39)

I whipped it out, you I managed to actually get it out and it picked up four different birds and my kids just thought it was so amazing. I'm like, and it shows you which bird is matching to which sound. And I find that so fascinating. So I'm right there with you. I have become an adult birder. I'm birding. My kids will get their field guide out when they see a cool bird in our backyard and I'm into it. I think more people need to get into birding.

Kelsey (43:56)

Mm-hmm.

Yes, and they're

there in all seasons. So it's really just one of the best gateways to nature-based learning.

Julianne Nienberg (44:06)

Yes. I

love that. Well, you know what, let me wrap up here our time. I wanted to touch on some of the things that you offer. So you do offer one on one parenting consulting. Tell me about that.

Kelsey (44:22)

Yes. So I offer one-on-one consulting for parents and educators. But since I know your audience is mainly parents and they might be curious about nature-based learning, my consultation calls are a time to sit down and go through your life, your circumstances, your questions, and see how we can get you outside or see how we can answer these things. For example, how do I know if this is the right nature-based preschool for me? The other part of the nature, or excuse me, the parenting,

Julianne Nienberg (44:45)

.

Kelsey (44:50)

one-on-one consulting is this holistic social-emotional learning idea. This idea that I come from a background of viewing children as whole beings, a body, mind, and soul, and addressing certain behaviors or challenging things that are

going on in your family dynamic, and coming from this perspective of a really soulful kind

holistic view. And so I found that that has been something so helpful, not only for the parents at my preschool, but then I, took it online to help more parents one on one. So definitely reach out if any of that kind of rings a bell or if you feel aligned with my philosophy.

Julianne Nienberg (45:26)

That's incredible. I think that's such a great resource to offer parents. Where can listeners connect with you and find you?

Kelsey (45:32)

Sure, so the best way is on Instagram. My handle is at Among the Fairies and my website is AmongtheFairies.com. Very easy. if you're interested in consulting, I have a form on my website, but you can also just send me a DM. I'm a very casual person. I'd love to hear from you.

Julianne Nienberg (45:51)

Awesome. And I will make sure for everyone listening, will include that in the show notes. Kelsey, this has been such a fun conversation as I knew it would be. love.

how you bring such a depth of knowledge about nature-based learning as an educator. And you just have a really practical lighthearted approach to getting kids outside. your students, their parents are so lucky to have you as an educator because your love for your students and your passion for...

nature-based early childhood education is so apparent. I see it through the screen and they are so lucky to have you and you are doing such important work. So I want to encourage you with that. And before we wrap up, I always end each episode with one simple outdoorsy challenge, something small that listeners can do this week to get their family outside. What's one easy thing that you would encourage them to try this week?

Kelsey (46:39)

I'm going to go out on a limb here and I'm going to say, knock on your neighbor's door. Meet a neighbor this week.

Julianne Nienberg (46:43)

Ooh,

And you know what? The weather is nice, it's warm out. This is the perfect season to be meeting up with your neighbors. So I love that, thank you. everyone listening, your outdoorsy challenge for this week is to get outside, meet a neighbor, give it a try and tag me on Instagram and let me know how it goes. Kelsey, thank you again for sharing your wisdom and passion with us.

Kelsey (47:06)

Thank you so much for having me and thank you for all the work you're doing.

Julianne Nienberg (47:09)

absolutely. And for everyone else listening, go check out at Among the Fairies on Instagram for more nature based parenting inspiration and resources. Until next time, get outside, lean into nature, and I'll see you back here next week.

Julianne Nienberg (47:22)

Thanks so much for spending part of your day with me. I hope this episode left you feeling encouraged and inspired to get outside and enjoy nature wherever your feet are. If you loved what you heard, it would mean the world to me if you tap those five stars or leave a quick review. It helps other outdoorsy minded moms find the show and grow the sweet little community. And if you're looking for more ways to simplify, slow down, and connect through nature, you can find me over on Instagram at myoutdoorsymom, read the blog at myoutdoorsymom.com, or explore all my digital resources and seasonal guides in the shop.

Everything's linked right there in the show notes. Until next time, take a deep breath, step outside, and I'll meet you back here next week.