The My Outdoorsy Mom Podcast

EP 31: Beyond the Front Door with Josée Bergeron | Nature, Motherhood, and Finding Your Way Back

• Julianne Nienberg • Season 3 • Episode 31

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In this episode of The My Outdoorsy Mom Podcast, I’m joined by Josée Bergeron, the voice behind Backwoods Mama and author of the beautiful new book Beyond the Front Door: Embracing Nature for a Happier, Healthier Family.

Josée is a mom of five, a former nurse, and a thoughtful advocate for helping families reconnect with nature in a way that feels gentle, grounded, and realistic. In this conversation, we talk about what happens when motherhood feels overstimulating, when family life gets pulled indoors, and how even small moments outside can begin to restore our peace, priorities, and connection.

This episode is for the mom who wants to get outside more with her family but also feels the very real weight of modern parenting, busy schedules, screens, and burnout.

Where to find Josée:

Where to find me:

Julianne

Welcome to the My Outdoors E Mom Podcast. I'm Julianne, Mom of Three, Outdoor Play Advocate, and the voice behind My Outdoors E Mom. Here we talk about raising outdoor confident kids, the kind who build forts, explore creeks, solve problems, and grow into capable humans through real play and real adventure. Each week you'll hear conversations about outdoor play, childhood independence, family travel, and the simple rhythms that help kids thrive. If you want to raise kids who spend more time outside and less time on screens, you're in the right place. Let's get outside. Today on the My Outdoorsy Mom podcast, I'm welcoming Jose Bergeron, the voice behind Backwoods Mama and the author of the brand new book Beyond the Front Door: Embracing Nature for a Happier, Healthier Family. Jose is a mom of five with kids ranging from three to eighteen, and she lives in the northern interior of British Columbia, Canada. With a background in nursing and knowledge passed down from her father, she brings such a grounded, holistic perspective to getting families outside. What I love most about Jose's work is that she doesn't just tell families to go outside. She helps them feel confident, capable, and welcomed by nature, no matter how outdoorsy they think they are or where they live. Her message is simple but powerful. Reconnecting with nature can start small right where you are, and it can completely transform your family's well-being. Jose, I'm so excited to have you here. Welcome to the My Outdoorsy Mom podcast. Thank you so much for having me. First off, I want to congratulate you on your new book, Beyond the Front Door. I have it here in front of me. I gotta say, well done. This is more than just a how to embrace the outdoors for a happier, healthier family. It reads like a memoir. And I love that you invited the reader into some very intimate and raw struggles that you had as a mom. What was writing this book like for you?

Josée

I would say that um, I mean, part of it was definitely cathartic, right? It was also, like you say, very vulnerable. For many years, I've had a blog called Backwoods Mama. I started it in 2009. And so there came a point in my life where I felt honestly like an imposter. I was writing about getting kids outside. I was encouraging families to do so. But then in my own life, in the background, I was seriously struggling with everything that I was writing about. I was struggling to get outside with my own children. And so I experienced this really serious disconnect in my life where I just felt not very authentic and I really struggled with that. And I also had a period where I felt very disconnected from nature and from the outdoors, and that was really hard. So this really was what sort of propelled me to have a really honest look at my life, at the culture of parenting, to see what was going on and why I was struggling so much. And that really laid the foundation for my book.

Julianne

Tell me, what was it in that season of life? You can probably imagine in the very beginning chapters of your book. But for the listeners, what specifically felt hard? Because uh you've got five kids. At the time, I think when you talk about in the first chapter, you perhaps only had two or three. I think it was three kids. Walk us through what was feeling especially difficult during that season of life.

Josée

So when I had three children, we were living in actually the southern part of British Columbia. And at the time, we were actually quite connected to the outdoors. We were very surrounded by community, and then we had a major shift in our lives. So we moved to a bigger city. We uh it was actually right as the pandemic was unfolding, and we found out that we were pregnant. I was pregnant. A bunch of things that were going on, and as you know, that that time during the pandemic was challenging for everybody, and especially challenging with now we're in a new community, we don't have a lot of connections, we had our parks closed to us, we were very limited in the outdoor spaces that we could access. And I was in my first trimester, so I just felt awful. So these things were happening. And so this is where the fracturing started to happen in my life between the way that we were experiencing the outdoors as a family and now this shift. And in my book, I talk about how this disconnection was beginning. And I sort of thought, okay, well, it will get better when it will get better when the restrictions lift. It will get better when I have my baby. And the thing that surprised and shocked me is that it didn't. It didn't get better. In fact, it got worse because not only was I now chasing around a toddler, I was now pregnant with my fifth as the restrictions eased. Instead of focusing on time as a family, getting outside together, connection with my children, connection with nature, I got pulled into this intensive culture of parenting that we are experiencing right now. This pressure to have my children in a lot of extracurricular, this pressure to be distracted by screens and the online world. And as much as I, you know, didn't want to get sucked in by that, I did. I was slowly being eroded in my, in my values, in my priorities, because this is what we were surrounded with. And this is kind of what propelled our struggle and our disconnection, my own disconnection from the natural world and also with my children. And as a result of that, we started seeing negative impacts in our health and well-being.

Julianne

There's one scene in particular that paint this picture so beautifully. I think a lot of moms can relate to having a moment where it's the moment in your book you talk about you just you got out of the house and you left and you went for just some quiet mom time. And I think every mom can relate to that because there's a moment in motherhood, or there's many moments in motherhood where you're kind of just left staring out the window. You know, we can all imagine it. You're staring and you're wondering, you're wondering what in the world is going on? What in the world is going on in my home? Who am I? Where am I? And there is so much of motherhood that's beautiful. There's so much of motherhood that's overstimulating. And this picture that you paint in the book resonated with me so much because I too have had a moment like that. Can you talk us through what was going through your head during this particular moment and why you decided to share it in your book?

Josée

I know. Yes, this is a very vulnerable, very vulnerable story. So I would say this was towards the end of my fifth pregnancy. And at this point, everything is starting to collide. I'm feeling extremely overwhelmed. I'm spending a lot of time driving my older children to and from activities. Uh, we are, when we are at home, we are again distracted by screens. I know that all that screen use was necessarily bad. I mean, some of it was school and things like that, but still, nevertheless, a lot of screen time. And I just felt, I felt really lost. My body felt so overstimulated, like you said. I was stressed, I was nearing burnout, I felt as a parent. And I think that there was just something in my body and in my heart, almost a switch that flipped. And I thought I, I just needed, I needed space, I needed a moment. And in that moment, I've I turned to the outdoors, I turned to nature. It was almost this instinctive, this instinctive uh turning, this calling, this moving towards nature in me. And it felt in some ways sort of out of my control. I just remember being that moment and thinking, I I need to move myself out of this indoor space. I need to go outside. And so I I did. And I didn't tell anybody. I just sort of like walked away. My poor husband. And I I drove because I was quite pregnant. You know, it was a bit uncomfortable for me to, you know, walk a large distances at that point. And I went to a place that I knew would give me sort of peace and comfort. And it did. And it's not that that moment necessarily cured me or it sort of turned everything around in that moment, but it gave me a space to breathe, to really think about okay, what's going on? What are the choices that I've made? And I think as parents, we need to give ourselves moments like that. We need to give ourselves the grace and the space to take a breath and really think about is this working for my family? And is, you know, if it's not, then where can we make changes? And like I say in my book, it's not that things changed right away, but it did give me the space to really look at things and think about, okay, this is not working. And wow, do I feel so good just being outside in this moment? Let's see how we can start to shift our family and bring more of that in. So yes, it's the turning point.

Julianne

I loved reading it because I felt myself in that moment. I think every woman, if you when you read this book, you can identify a moment in motherhood where you're you feel like you're standing at the precipice of something. Either you're you're gonna move forward and things are gonna be different, or you're gonna shift back into what you know and what is familiar and not make change. And I felt that while I was reading that. And I identified myself in that moment. And I thought, if I'm feeling this way, surely there are so many other women who have struggled with this tension of motherhood, of just being pulled in so many different directions. And I thought that was a really beautiful moment to share. And kudos to you because yes, I'm sure my husband has looked at me or looked off at me as I've gone on to, for me, it's it's our backyard, and I'll just open the sliding door and I'll walk out there barefoot and I'll do some stretches. I'm the kids might be in the house. I don't know what the condition of the home is, but I walk outside, I do some stretches, some grounding, um, and I come back in a different woman because I've had, you know, five to ten minutes of just being outside in nature to reset, to calm, and I feel better equipped to take on my family, my home, once I've had a little bit of time like that. So I absolutely agree. I think that as moms, as women, we need to allow moments of like moments of grace, just like that, just like you talked about in your book. One of the things that also struck out to me is when you, when your family shifted from having nature kind of at your fingertips to moving, it was a big shift for your family. And I was reminded of Robert Louvre's Last Child in the Woods when you talked about this need for green space. What was that shift? What was that move like for your family? And how did it impact your relationship, your family's relationship with nature?

Josée

So one of the things I remember when we first made our move, and I, you know, I talked to my children and I asked them, what do you miss most about our last home? And their answer surprised, but didn't surprise me. It was actually that they missed the tree in our backyard. And that was just such a aha moment for me. I thought, wow, I hadn't really thought of that. And when we did move, we did actually dig up a small sapling uh that came from this tree. And we did bring it with us and we planted it in our new home. But of course, trees take time to grow, and in a lot of ways, it reflected our own transition and the time it took for our own family to sort of become rooted. And so when we were settled in our previous home, we felt, you know, generally very grounded and very connected to the nature around us. And I think one thing that surprised me with our move was that, again, we had the pandemic, so there were restrictions, but it also takes time to connect with the nature that's around you. And when you live in a space that perhaps is more urban or suburban, nature can feel more fragmented, or sometimes we don't necessarily appreciate the nature that's around us. So one thing I talk about in my book is, you know, what is nature? And I think often people and even as parents, we sort of have this picturesque idea of what nature is. And so we think to ourselves, well, I can only access nature if I'm going out into the forest or if I'm camping with my children. And I would admit that I had a similar mentality that I I thought this as well. But what I learned being in a city, being close to more urban nature, is that nature is truly all around us. And yes, the nature that will be lining our streets may not be in the same type of wildness that we experience perhaps in the backcountry. But nevertheless, it's still beautiful. And when we connect with that tree in our yard, or we notice those birds flying to our bird feeder, or you know, the dandelion growing in the crack of a pavement, that still makes a difference. And that still can have a positive impact on our health and well-being. And so in my book, in my transition from a more sort of rural area where, like you say, nature was at our fingertips to a place where it wasn't in the same way, it was difficult. And it definitely took some time for me to change my understanding that nature is still there, that it's still beautiful, and that it still has an impact when we connect with it in that way.

Julianne

I think a lot of parents can relate to that because they think that nature has to be this almost wild experience. Like you have to get in your car and go somewhere, especially for us here in the Midwest. Nature is truly all around us. But where I live, it's a very suburban area. We are fortunate enough to have some property, but we're also five minutes away from grocery stores. You know, there's there's the convenience of suburbia that's all around us, but there's also these little micro moments. And I know you talk about that a lot in your book, is just creating this awareness, this stillness, um, giving kids the time to notice nature. And I love that you talked about trees because if you've ever looked at my Instagram page, you know that I have a son who loves to climb trees. And I had never actually thought about the relation, I've I've thought about his relationship with trees, but I've never actually thought about my own personal relationship with trees. And I would argue that I do have a relationship with trees because we live on a property with a lot of evergreens, and we've had several that have died and have had to be taken down. And I told my husband, if we're gonna plant new trees, it's gonna take a lot, a long time. But I want the trees like this big birch tree that we have in our backyard. I love the sound of the birch tree and the leaves when they sway in the wind. That to me, I was thinking about this the other day. That to me, I think takes the cake, even over crashing waves, the sound of lulling crashing waves. For me, my peace and my happy place goes to the sound of the breeze and the wind and the wind through the trees in this particular patch of birch trees that we have. And I never stopped to think about my own relationship with the sound and what that sound does to my nervous system until you wrote about trees in your book. And I thought, that makes a lot of sense. You know, nature, we know now because of all the science and all the research, what it does for our nervous system. And it's I felt that in my own life. And it it took reading your words to articulate what that relationship with trees was like for me. So I want to thank you for that because I really enjoyed reading that part of the book.

Josée

I love trees as well. And so when you talk about hearing the wind through the trees, we have trembling aspens here, and so I relate with that as well. And it's interesting when you start to think about trees, you think about your childhood, you start to notice that there are trees, you know, throughout our lives that we connect with in different ways. And I've always found it really interesting in writing my book and talking to people, when I bring up trees, a lot of people start to realize actually, yes, there was a tree or there is a tree. And it's so beautiful to see that. I think that's, you know, in my book, yes, I talk about children, but again, parents, yes, we also can have relationships with trees and connections, and they can definitely help to ground us and give us just a sense of space and peace as well. So trees are important for parents too.

Julianne

Yes. Well, even as I watch you say that, and I I thought back to my response about reading about your trees, a just a giant smile came to my face. You know, a giant smile comes to my face when I think about my son climbing in the trees. A lot of the content I have on my Instagram page is about my son climbing trees. And I can't tell you the hundreds of comments I get from moms who have had kids that were tree climbers and the cool things, the cool occupations that they're in now, tree surgeons, forestry, and the very cool lives that their children have gone on to live because they started as a kid who loved to climb in the trees. I could go on and on about all the comments and the smiles that it gives me just reading it. It's really beautiful to see. So I am very happy that you had a section there in your book about that. And one of the things you talk a lot too in your book, and I've heard this said by so many other people, by outdoor school educators, but the idea of co-parenting with nature. Let's unpack that. And if you are, like you said, a busy parent who is living day-to-day with the pressures of just everyday life, just like just like what you went through in terms of bussing and shuttling your kids back and forth, the added pressure to have your kids in all of these different activities, the list goes on. How can we get back to co-parenting with nature or using nature as a tool for parenting and regulation?

Josée

So I think often when we have these conversations about getting outside with our families, with our children, we really focus on the benefits for children. And like you say, the science is there. There are so many benefits for kids getting outside, playing outside. But we often forget about the benefits for parents. And so this idea of co-parenting with nature really focuses focuses on the benefits of how when we bring our children outside, nature provides the space for us to actually, I find, be better parents. It supports us, it grounds us. And I see this not only in my own parenting personally, but I also hear this a lot from parents. And the idea of co-parenting with nature is not a new idea. I mean, I think it's an idea that has been around for a very long time. When we listen to indigenous peoples or Native American peoples speak about the natural world, there is often this idea that nature or mother nature is an active part in raising children. And so part of this is that the natural world provides what children need for their health and development, right? So when kids go outside, there's just so much in nature that supports everything, their physical growth, their motor skills, their emotional mental health. And so when we co-parent with nature, when we realize the importance of nature for our child's development, that's part of the equation. And the other part is that we also can learn from the natural world. And I don't know about you, but I find that if I am feeling really overwhelmed, and especially by what's going on in my house, the piles of laundry, the endless to-do lists, the chores, I can get impatient, I can get snappy, and my children, you know, they get flustered. And then I, you know, if we just take a moment and we step outside, like you say, even in our backyard, or if we sit on the front steps for a moment, so much of that pressure and overwhelm starts to dissolve and we can sort of lean into the natural world and what is going on to help root us and calm us and provide space, reshift our attention. And so it's it's all of that. It's all those things together.

Julianne

I think that's such an important thing to also consider that our relationship as parents with nature is what our kids see too. And I think that we are great models, or perhaps the ultimate model of what a relationship with nature can look like for our children. For example, we were going on a trip recently, and I was, of course, tasked with packing everyone up, as all moms do. My kids are still little, so I do give them the liberties of packing as much as they can. And of course, I'm going in last minute, checking to make sure they have all the things they actually need. And I was missing one thing. And it was for whatever reason, on that particular moment, I was very hung up on this one thing, and tensions were rising. I should say my own tension was rising, and it was palpable in the room. And looking back after, I apologized to everyone in the car once we got to the airport because my behavior was just atrocious. It was atrocious. I told my kids I am so sorry for how I behaved. But in that moment, as I'm running around. In the kitchen trying to find this one thing, my daughter steps outside, and my mom happened to be here with us. And my mom's wondering, where did she go? Where did she go? And she comes back inside, my oldest, and she says, I just had to go outside. It was really overwhelming in here. And that was the big, I mean, come on, you know, we talk about giving our kids, teaching our kids how to communicate effectively, right? And that is always the ultimate goal. And it was such a, I mean, my tail was just in between my legs when she said that. And I thought, okay, I am getting worked up about this one thing. But I thought that that was such a powerful picture of how we turn to nature to regulate us and that our kids are always watching. They're always watching.

Josée

I know. I I laugh when listening to your story because I have a similar story in my book where actually I was also, you know, rage cleaning, which is so awful. And my son looked at me and said, Mama, I think you need some outside time. And same as you, I was both proud and humbled at this. And and yeah, and you're right, you know, as parents, we do hold the key in many ways to our child's connection with nature. And this is also part of the message I'm trying to share in my book. I think there has been some really wonderful work in, you know, things like four schools or nature-based learning when educators are really stepping up to help children connect with nature. And I'm so happy to see that and I'm so excited that they're doing this work. But at the end of the day, and this is even what we are seeing in research, that parents do play a pivotal role in children's connection with the natural world. And they are watching us very closely. And so if we are not taking time to foster that connection in our own lives, in in our own ways, and again, we are going to connect with nature differently than our children. So it's important that we take time to foster that in our own lives, but our children are watching. And so I do find that if we can also slow down with our children, put our phone away and be present with them outdoors, they also help sort of take the blindfold off our eyes and see the natural world in such a beautiful way that we often lose in our business of parenting. I find we we can get so distracted. But children just have this amazing ability to notice nature, to really bring that awe back that we can sometimes lose. And that noticing is really what brings that connection. And I do talk about this in my book. You know, sometimes we can get a little hung up on oh, you know, thinking about outdoors as like something that we need to check off our list or we need to get so much time outside. But I try to shift that away a little bit and think about the outdoors as building more of a relationship than just another thing that's needing to get checked off our list.

Julianne

Absolutely. I I hear you talking about, you know, kind of releasing ourselves as parents from the pressure to have outdoor time as a as a checkbox that we check off. And I've noticed too, even in our own family, because of where we live, we spend almost 10 to 12 hours a day outside in the summertime. And for a long time, especially when my kids were little, I used to beat myself up about not spending more time outside in the winter. We would get outside plenty, but there was always this pressure. Well, you know, if if the studies are saying this, then we should really be getting out there, you know, how many hours a day? And I had to remind myself that just as nature has different seasons, our family has different seasons. We have seasons of rest, we have seasons of preparation, we have seasons of fun where we go hard in the summer. We're out swimming, we're out by the lakes, we're out in the in the woods. And that was something that took me a couple of years to really realize, to accept, and to embrace that just as nature has seasons of rest, so do we. And that's a good thing. I I wouldn't want to go as hard as we do in the winter, as we do in the summer. There's just no rest in the summer because we know we've only got three or four months of beautiful weather and sunshine-filled days, we we take advantage of it. But the winter time, the fall time especially, things start to slow down. And I've I've come to realize that although our time outside might be less in the winter and in the fall, and the winter is long here as I'm I'm sure it has been for you too, but that that's okay, and that the longer days are ahead. And I have established these rhythms. And I love, you know, there's a lot of that, I think, similar language and similar tone in your book of just creating rhythms and seasons. You you highlight all the different seasons in your book. You mentioned something earlier about your indigenous background and your childhood. How did your indigenous background, you also have a nursing background, how did those two influences shape your philosophy around nature, around health? And how do you how did you use that in motherhood?

Josée

So definitely two very kind of different backgrounds, but and they can sort of feel like they perhaps maybe oppose each other a little bit just in their their understanding. But I think there's actually a lot that complement the one and the other. So with my nursing background, I love research. It's kind of weird, but I really enjoy pulling up studies, reading them from beginning to end, you know, looking at the references in the study, and I can do a deep dive. And I had to laugh because when I first submitted my book to my publisher, it was over the word count. And my editor, who's so gracious, there were so many times she said to me, Jose, this is great information, but I think I need to pull you out of the weeds a little bit. I don't think our readers need this much, this much studies, this much citations. So just know that, yeah, when I wrote my book, I really did try to knowledge translate what's in the research to make it practical for families because often there's a little gap. We see this stuff coming out in the research. It's so exciting, but it can take a very long time to kind of trickle down into parenting and what parents are reading and seeing. So, yes, I love research. My book is very research-backed. But then, yes, you're right. So I have an indigenous background. I am Red River Metis on my father's side. And so my understanding of land and of nature is also different, I think, than our Western ideas of the natural world. So often in our Western way of thinking, we see ourselves as separated from the natural world, like there's nature and then there's us in the indigenous, in the Metis way of understanding. We see nature, or we, as we call land, as a living, breathing being that encompasses everything the rocks, the trees, the flowers, the water, and ourselves. So we are part of that picture. And I think that this understanding of being part of nature, being very interwoven, intertwined, gives this um this way of understanding, of uh, seeing the natural world as more again of a relationship and that a connection and that we belong, that that nature is home and we belong here. And that what we want to strive for is just this mutual flourishing of ourselves, of our children in the natural world. And so it does it does take a different perspective. And you can kind of see that in my book when I talk about these things, which can seem a little perhaps odd to some readers. But I think that when we start to see ourselves as part of nature, and we have that support from this, you know, the science and the research, then we can look at our planet, our world in in a way where we really want to embrace and care for and love this beautiful planet that we live on.

Julianne

You're preaching to the choir, first of all, I want to say, with regards to your research-based book, I could see, I could understand the comments from your editor, but I myself also love, I'm a just a geek. I just love to, you know, I geek out over research. And so I love to see all of the references that you had in your book. It was really, it was fun for me to read through because I enjoy and you're speaking my language with that. But yes, I think that's so beautiful. And I loved, you know, learning more about your background and really just this distinction, you know, between the land and how that played into your parenting, really. And one of the things that jumped out at me is as you talked about the journey of homeschooling kids to then sending them off to a brick and mortar school. Tell us about what that shift was like for you as a mom, for your family. Even as I started to read that chapter, I began the first paragraph and I saw where it was going, and I thought, oh, my mom heart just started to shatter into a million pieces. Can you tell us about that?

Josée

That was such a difficult transition for me as a mother. So my children, my eldest three children had been homeschooled from kindergarten onward. And when they were in sort of middle, high school middle and um sort of high school, came to me and they said, Mom, we'd really like to try going to school. And honestly, it broke my heart. But I also understood. And we, in our homeschooling journey, always had open conversations about education and giving them that opportunity if they were interested in going into a school. And I just, you know, perhaps hoped they would always want to homeschool forever. But as kids get older in their teenage years, a lot of their homeschool friends were going into school. And so I think for them there was some loneliness happening. They were wanting to connect more with their peers. Um at the time, my eldest was going into grade, let me just see here, grade 11, grade nine, and grade seven. So those were the years that they were going into. And I remember their excitement for going into school for the very first time. And for myself, just this sinking feeling and this, this, you know, this worry because one of the beautiful things of homeschooling is it gives you time and flexibility and freedom in in your day. And what we often would do with that would be going outside. We would take a lot of our learning outside, and and I just thought that was such a beautiful thing. And so I I worried. I remember having a conversation with the principal of the high school, who's actually a friend of mine, and I asked him, okay, what do you have for, you know, any sort of like environmental or nature-based classes or opportunities? And he looked at me a little bit as if I was a bit crazy. And he said, No, like we don't have any of that here. And I remember walking through the school with my children or my teens and looking out at the expanse of the very neatly trimmed lawn field at the back and thinking, wow, this is where they are going to be spending their days indoors in this space with very little access to the outdoors. I mean, even during, you know, their their breaks and recesses, most of them, you know, are staying inside, especially in the winter months, right? It's quite cold. So it was honestly heartbreaking for me to see that and to experience that. And I know a lot of parents, you know, they they feel the feels and they cry when their child goes to their first day of kindergarten. I didn't have that. So I had those tears when they went into high school for the first time. And they're like, okay, mom, like maybe stay in the car and have those tears. I know. So heartbreaking. So yeah, it was very difficult for me. That was a really difficult transition. And yes, it did definitely add an added layer of challenge for getting outside with our family because now we had the school and they had their extracurriculars. And so it it was definitely challenging.

Julianne

Well, when I read that, I loved the following paragraphs where you talked about really the disparity of outdoor time in older students, in older kids. Whereas, you know, now you were seeing, especially in the United States, an emerging wave of forest schools and nature preschools, and early childhood education is beginning to bring kids back to being outside. But what happens to that in the older kids, into the teenagers? We're just not seeing forest schools for teenagers any longer. And it's really a population that benefits just as much, if not more, than early childhood education. So, how do you how do you recommend parents advocate for either more time outdoors in school or how did they stand up for their family and protect their time when you've experienced it? You've got the pressures of extracurriculars, of sports, of competitive sports. How can parents take a stand and protect that time for their older kids?

Josée

You're absolutely right. You know, we are seeing that there is this amazing shift in education and getting younger children outside. I'm seeing this really great movement. And I know some teachers who are working in this area. But like you say, usually once you start hitting that pre-adolescence adolescence, we see a pretty significant shift. Now, there's, I think, a couple of things going on. The first is that we have um this idea that, you know, now that these kids are older, they don't need nature anymore, that they need to focus on academics. And that could not be further from the truth. Like you say, you know, the research does show that teenagers, they do need nature just as much as children, perhaps even more so, because there's just so much happening in their lives in that phase. There's so much growth and development and identity formation, a lot of stress and things like that. So the outdoors really provides an amazing space for them. And we do see that it can have a very positive impact. So I think part of it is as parents, as educators, we kind of have this in our dea or idea in our mind that they don't need it. So that's part of the problem. And then we other the other thing that we see happening is we see that there is a shift even in the adolescents away from nature. And I talk about this in my book. This is some of the research that's coming out of the UK, where they talk about um, they call it call it the teenage, uh, the teenage gap. Teenage, oh no, I forget. But anyways, they essentially this gap, this disconnection from the natural that happens, and it can start happening as early as like 10, 11, um, and really hit so there's sort of like this, this low point um in early adolescence. So I think for parents, it's kind of helpful to consider two things. One, that a disconnection from nature may occur, even to children who have been really connected to the natural world in their childhood. And so if parents see this happening, not to be too uh too kind of um worried or freaked out about it, because I know I was. I was thinking, what did I do wrong? What's going on? Why are my teens not interested in nature all of a sudden? Uh, I'm, you know, and you start to blame yourself as a parent. So I think it's helpful to know as a parent that part of this is normal development. Um, and part of it is also the way that we sort of perceive them. So one thing I talk about and one thing I try to share with parents is that again, it's really important as parents that we model behavior and that we make sure that getting out into the natural world and connecting with nature is important to us and that we continue to do that because teenagers are so good at noticing hypocrites, right? They will hunt you down if you are not living out the way that you are asking them to also live.

Julianne

And so just teenagers, because my year-down too.

Josée

Okay, fair fair, fair. It's true. It does happen early. I know even my five-year-old's like, well, wait a second, mom. So I think it's really important for parents to be continue to nurture that relationship in their own lives because, you know, our teens and our children will see that. And then the other thing that I try to do for ourselves and encourage families is to also protect time where you are encouraging your teen or your family to get outside. So what we found was when kids are in school and they're in extracurriculars, it can get to the point where every day, every evening, even weekends, you are so busy that there is no time left for nature. And this is in the research, what we hear again and again from parents when we ask, why, or you know, what is the main thing that's preventing you from getting outside with your children? Parents say they don't have time, right? That's pretty crazy. And so a lot of parents kind of know or would like to, but they are just time-starved. And this really gets worse in the teenage years because now they also want to hang out with their friends, they have their extracurriculars, you know, as they get older, they may have a job. So you have a lot of things that are buying for time at this point. And I think as parents, if we can try to protect pockets of time, perhaps for for you know, for our family, it would be on the weekend, we would say, okay, we are going to make an effort to do something all together as a family on the weekend. And with five kids ranging from 18 to 3, this is a pretty big challenge because everybody's going in different directions. But we try to make that a weekly priority. And then I also, with my teenagers, try to find just little opportunities here and there. So even if we are going from one activity to the next, we might just stop at the beach. We live by a lake. So we might just go stop by the lake and perhaps grab a drink from a shop, like a coffee shop, and sit down together and be outside. Or if I'm taking our dog for the walk, I'll invite a teen to come with me. So just kind of this how can we weave this into our day-to-day life? Where can we find these little opportunities to continue to connect with one another and with nature as we as we go through this new phase of raising teenagers? And in these moments, it does really help them and it helps the relationship as well with parents. So it's it's quite important.

Julianne

I joked earlier about my eight-year-old humbling me, and kids will say they'll certainly bring to light the realities and the hypocrisy, as you mentioned. My children have famously told me, well, you don't seem very outdoorsy. And I said, you know what? At one point in time, honey, I took you everywhere outside, and now you've built that muscle up so much that you don't even need me anymore. You just go outside on your own. But I laugh a lot in your book because for anyone who is going to begin their journey of reading Jose's book, it's not like she is sitting in her ivory tower in the forest telling you how to be an outdoorsy, how to be a family that lives outdoors and appreciates nature. She is writing to you from very lived-in experiences about being in the depths of motherhood and the realities of juggling such a wide range of children's ages, from three to eighteen, and the very different challenges of real life parenting, of modern-day parenting. So if you're thinking that this is going to be a book about how to go outside more from someone who's just writing about it, this is not that. This is someone who's really been in it and experienced different seasons of motherhood. And I love all of the things that you shared. And really, it's some some of these intimate and vulnerable struggles that as a reader and as a mom, I identified, they resonated with me because I too have had a moment like that. So I really appreciate you digging deep and being willing to share that. Now, as we go through the book, you separate the chapters out, or the chapters are each devoted to a certain season. I have to ask you, what's your favorite season?

Josée

Okay, so I know I don't like to play favorites. I do love all seasons, but if I really had to pick one, I would say it actually, it's spring. It's it's also my my birth season. And I think there's just something so wonderful about spring and this idea of new beginnings, of renewal, and after the wintering, the being inside. And and I do love winter, which makes me perhaps a little odd too. And I think it's so important to have this time of stillness and quiet, and it's so needed in our very busy parenting lives. But yes, the spring just has my heart. I just love that even from day to day, you go outside and it's just the world is changing so rapidly and growing and coming to life. And it just reminds me that even in my own journey of getting outside with my children, that that's, you know, as much as there's been times where I've struggled and, you know, failed, if you want to say. That that that's okay. I you know, there are new beginnings. We can try again. And I think it's so important to to remember that as a parent, to be kind to ourselves, to realize that if we didn't get outside today or this week, or we didn't get outside much this month, that that's okay. We can try again. We don't need to get stuck in that guilt. And I think spring is just such a wonderful invitation to just reconnect with nature and see its beauty in all the blossoming flowers and the unfurling weeds. So, yes, how about yourself? I want to know, do you have a favorite season?

Julianne

I d I do appreciate all of those things about spring as well. I would say for me it's summer. Summer is just the days are long, the sun. For us, we're very much a water family. We're either out on the lake, um, we have, you know, we're we live in the Great Lakes State and we are never far from a lake. And for me, I really, I really, I guess I would I don't want to say I learned this about myself because I've always felt this way, but there is a calm that comes over me when I am near water. And I think that's one of the benefits, obviously, right? That that's studied, that we know about water. But for me personally, I have felt that through many seasons of my life. When I am near the presence of water, my nervous system resets. I I'm calm, I become regulated, and I see now, you know, as we talk a lot about relationships with nature, I see very much a strong relationship that I've had with nature over the course of my life. So for that reason alone, I would say summer is my chance to get out there, to be close to the water. But like you too, I also love the spring because of the reawakenings. And like you said, every day something new is popping up. You know, a road that we drove by last week might not have had their tulips blossoming, but then a week later the tulips have popped and it's beautiful and the daffodils are popping. We have in our own gardens. Gosh, what am I trying to say? What flower is it that is so fragrant? The bells, they're like bells. I know this. Anyways, it come, it pops up in our yard. They're they're actually considered invasive, but they we do have them in our yard. And I that for me is just the signal of spring. And I I harvest them, I we all take them in, and they're just they fill our home with this sweet floral fragrance. So there's a lot about our local flora and fauna that I really enjoy in spring. What is it around you? What are the local, you know, flowers and animals that are coming to arouse and be awakened where you are?

Josée

So, one of the first things that we start to see in the hills around us is the sage brush buttercup. And so this is kind of this first early sign of spring. You can spot them even as the snow melts. And so sometimes we will explore more of the southern slopes around us to see if we can spot that first buttercup. It becomes a little bit of a game with my children, and so it's very exciting. So that's sort of this first early sign of spring. And then as the spring unfolds, we get these beautiful arrow leaf balsam root, and they look like these sunshiny kind of sunflowery. I mean, they're not exactly sunflowers, but they just blanket the hills and this beautiful carpet of yellow. And what I love about them is that it just draws everybody outside. They even, they even make space, they even get on, you know, our local news, like the balsam root are blooming. Everybody go and appreciate the balsam room because it's just, it's just so beautiful. And lasts maybe about two to three weeks. And so everybody, you know, kind of gets out and enjoys them, takes pictures. Um, and we also get beautiful uh Saskatoon or service berry trees blooming at the same time. So we have this beautiful like yellow and white just display of flowers here, which is so lovely.

Julianne

Yes, you well, you know what? I I looked it up. It's the lily of the valley in my garden. Okay, there you go. That's what it's gonna be, my guess. Yes, it was Lily of the Valley, and my kids bring it in. They, you know, they pick it from our gardens. And you know, there's a chapter in your book that we talk about flowers and the relationship and how we can educate kids, and I love that chapter too. But my my you know, my littlest son will always pick flowers for me and he'll just sweetly bring them up. And I cherish these days that he still does it. I am, I will be sad when he stops doing that, if he ever, hopefully not. But it's our lily of the valley that is so fragrant, and like you said, so that's the the white, you know, that's in our gardens. And then we have forsythia bushes like all around our yards that just blossom this beautiful yellow and then they turn to green, you know. That's what that's what's so beautiful about spring, is this reawakening, and we're all excited and we all want to experience it because we know soon after this blossom that they will become something else. And so I do too love, I love the spring. I would say spring and summer for me. So it's fun that we share that. Yeah. Before we part ways, I wanted to ask a question that I ask of all of my guests. And it's for you to give the listeners an outdoorsy challenge. It's something that they can do within their week, something for them to try and a way for them to get outdoors with their family. What would your outdoorsy challenge be to our listeners?

Josée

So the one thing I'd probably encourage or invite families to do is to see about noticing or focusing on moments of nature noticing throughout the weeks. So one thing that I talk about in my book is noticing three good things in nature. And this is actually based in a study. Um, so it's not my own original idea, but I like to share it a lot because it's proven to actually have a really important and significant impact in just our feelings of well-being. And yet it's so simple and you can do it wherever you live. So, my challenge to parents is this week, every day, try to notice three good things in nature. And this can be just throughout your day, going one from one thing to the other. It could be in your backyard, it can be at the nearby park. Just take a moment and and notice. Write them, you know, if you have uh a notebook or if you have your phone in the notes app, just write them down, write the date, three good things and and see at the end of the week how you feel, how that makes you feel, and and definitely get your kids involved as well and and ask them to notice. And I think that as we move into the spring, this is just such a really great opportunity to start to see these subtle changes that are going to be happening outdoors. So three good things in nature. That's my challenge.

Julianne

You mentioned in your book Three Good Things in Nature and you with the acronym T G I T N. So I love that. And I think too that that invites a spirit of gratefulness and contentment and being still when life, family life, the world sometimes seems chaotic. So I think that is such a great invitation. So for those of you listening, Jose's outdoorsy challenge to you is to get outside and to notice three good things in nature. Jose, thank you for sharing your story and your time with me today. I love how you've taken the pressure off of outdoor parenting and replaced it with invitation, like we talked about, with relationship, and that the idea that even these small moments of noticing three good things in nature, it counts. It counts, and I think it's something that listeners need to hear. Friends, you can find Jose at backwoodsmama.com and at Instagram at the Backwoods Mama. Her new book, Beyond the Front Door, is available wherever books are sold. So make sure to grab a copy. Jose, thank you so much for being here. I am cheering you on and so grateful for the work that you're doing with families.

Josée

Thank you so much for having me. It has been such a pleasure to chat with you and to uh know that you're doing this such important work in and sharing this message and helping families get outside. So thank you.

Julianne

Thanks so much for spending part of your day with me here on the My Outdoorsy Mom podcast. If this episode resonated with you, it would mean so much if you followed the show, shared it with a friend, and left a five star review. That's the best way to help more parents discover these conversations and raise kids who love being outside. You can find me over on Instagram at My Outdoorsy Mom, where I share simple ideas to help kids play outside more every day. Thanks again for listening. Now go open the back door.