Mama You Belong
Welcome to 'Mama You Belong' - a podcast for moms in the thick of it. We delve into the need for belonging and connection that mothers often face alone and help you feel seen. We acknowledge the dissonance between societal expectations of motherhood and the realities of managing our mental and physical load, with science and trauma-informed support. Co-hosts of 'Mama You Belong' are Kirsten Desmarais, PT, DPT, OCS, CD(DONA) a physical therapist, birth doula, and mother of three, and Molly Hilgenberg, MSW, LICSW, a psychotherapist, singer/songwriter, and new mom.
Kirsten and Molly were both kids who collected rocks, hugged trees and grew up in different towns in Minnesota. They met only a few years ago when Kirsten became Molly's PT and then her birth doula. They bonded when they both realized they could pretty much share anything without judgment and text each other about the moon.
Through shared stories and expert insights, 'Mama You Belong' seeks to empower mothers by creating a supportive space for connection and understanding in their unique journeys. Each episode aims to provide validation, education, and some laughs. By sharing our stories and inviting expert guests in future episodes, we aspire to create a nurturing and inclusive environment for moms.
Mama You Belong
Breaking the Silence: Perinatal Mental Health with Celleste Schnellbach, MS, LMFT, PMH-C (Postpartum Depression, Anxiety & Supporting Moms)
Perinatal mental health struggles like postpartum depression and anxiety impact far more moms than we realize. In this powerful interview we discuss the stigma, the silence, and the support moms deserve but rarely get.
Perinatal mental health specialist Celleste Schnellbach, MS, LMFT, PMH-C of Duluth Perinatal joins us to break down the realities of maternal mental health challenges, offering both professional expertise and personal experience as a survivor of postpartum OCD. She is also the Vice Chair for Pregnancy Postpartum Support International - MN Chapter!
• Celleste shares her personal journey with postpartum OCD, including terrifying intrusive thoughts and compulsive behaviors
• Perinatal mental health encompasses conditions during pregnancy, post-loss, or the year postpartum
• Common diagnoses include depression, anxiety, OCD, bipolar disorders, birth trauma/PTSD, and psychosis
• The threshold for seeking help should be "whenever something feels off" – you don't need to be suffering to deserve support
• Bringing babies to therapy is not only possible but provides valuable clinical information...don't let that be the barrier to accessing therapy if you need support
• Managing nervous system regulation includes identifying whether you're in hyper-arousal (fight or flight) or hypo-arousal (freeze) states
• Repair after dysregulation is crucial – it's not about perfect parenting but how you reconnect after difficult moments with your kids
• Self-judgment and "shoulds" can prevent mothers from seeking the help they deserve
Looking for support for perinatal mental health concerns? Start here.
For MN specific support, click here.
Would you like to see Celleste as a patient at Duluth Perinatal? Find out more here.
Kirsten's Physical Therapy website
Hey, mama, you belong. We are so glad you're here. We are your hosts. Molly mental health therapist, singer and songwriter, tree hugger and a new mom like many of you.
Speaker 2:And Kirsten, physical therapist, birth doula, deep feeler, lover of trees and fellow mama. We hope you feel seen through these episodes and truly believe that you belong.
Speaker 3:Mama you belong, mama, you are seen. Mama you belong, mama, you are seen. We are connected like the mother trees. Mama you belong. Mama, you are seen as the mountain and gentle, as the stream flowing underneath and throughout the stories of our lives, centering each other so families can thrive. Centering each other so families can thrive.
Speaker 2:Hi everyone. We are here today with Celeste Schnellbach. She's a licensed marriage and family therapist and certified perinatal mental health specialist. She owns a private practice in Duluth, Minnesota, called Duluth Perinatal, which offers support to families navigating the diverse and challenging experiences of perinatal and reproductive mental health. Celeste is the vice chair of pregnancy and postpartum support Minnesota, a local nonprofit. She is a survivor of postpartum OCD and fertility challenges. She loves plants and rocks and tacos and lounging and is also a mama, wife, daughter and friend.
Speaker 3:Yeah, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, celeste, we're so thrilled you're here. Thank you so much for coming.
Speaker 4:I'm happy to be here with you too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, missing bedtime, yep, all of it. We're, yeah, we're just thrilled you're here and we really wanted to, in or like early on in what we're doing, dive into more perinatal mental health with a specialist, with a specialist. So, yeah, I mean I mentioned it a little bit in the last episode, but I definitely went through both postpartum anxiety and depression and I think I'm getting out of it, Sure sure, yeah, but it's.
Speaker 1:You know it's a long rocky road and I'm just really glad we're going to have some real talk. Totally this episode about everything. What about you, Kirsten?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have the opportunity to look back on multiple birth experiences now being three, almost four years out of my most recent, one of my most recent one and so I have kind of more hindsight because I just have more time in this part of my life and so much more is visible the further out I get and I sometimes think about, like, what would I say to my previous self in terms of, like, seeking help? But at the time it was so easy for me to rationalize so much of what I felt like I was experiencing or believe, when other people were sort of trying to rationalize it for me. So I think about the listeners who might potentially be more in that kind of fresh state, yeah, and, and just hope that maybe they can get some pearls, or just feel like, yeah, this is real and I don't need to try to explain some of this away and hopefully learn a little bit more about like, what support could potentially look like for them. Because I think I had one idea of what support looked like and it was more of that one-on-one in-person therapy and it was primarily talking about how I was feeling and I didn't feel like that would help me and I didn't feel like that was accessible because I was so I didn't even feel like in the beginning I could get into a car.
Speaker 2:Like I couldn't feel like that was accessible because I was so I didn't even feel like in the beginning I could get into a car. Like I couldn't even ride in the car. I had to like visualize her and watch her the whole time. We were going to leave her in the car seat. If I sought therapy, would I take her out? What would happen if I took her out, if I was not at home? So it just felt completely off the table. So for people who are in that space listening to learn more about like it is real, oh yeah, and that is like a great sign that you need support, because I desperately needed support Totally, but I didn't even choose to seek it, even though deep down I knew I was feeling some really big things, because it didn't even feel remotely accessible at all yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:I mean there's a ton of barriers in general that come up related to accessing support or care for any kind of mental health experience or condition, and then when you have a new baby, uh-huh, it's worse. I think it is. There's so much more to it yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:well, thanks for going into that a little more, kirsten. I think you know, as we kind of go through some of the questions we have developed for celeste today, we also would like to have you back for more, because I think there's just going to be so many areas where we could really dive deep and, like after listening to Kirsten, like I want to go into how common intrusive thoughts are, and that's not even on our list of questions it's not yeah.
Speaker 1:Right, but like, even if you wouldn't mind, like just sharing a little bit about that aspect of this, how isolating and scary I mean, that for me was like terrifying, and I didn't know who to talk to about it even as a therapist, I was like what, what is this? Why is this happening? Why am I, you know, just absolutely terrified of seeing the worst possible thing ever happening to my son wherever I go yeah, even down the stairs, you know.
Speaker 3:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I mean, it's scary what your brain can do.
Speaker 1:It's so scary, yeah, and like we didn't know. We had those places in our brain until we had a baby, until you were there.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, I can so relate. My brand of OCD was a lot of harm-related stuff and I feel really protective, even disclosing specifically what it was about. One for listeners. It's very activating and distressing. It was like that for me, living it too, and just the places of like why am I thinking this just sitting in my living room and why am I preparing for this thing to happen? That is dreadful and we're just like hanging out playing together. But I have to do these things later. I have to go outside of my home later and potentially face what if this really came true, because it does elsewhere and it was just horrifying and so lonely and, yeah, so visceral, like even in my body right now that was so bad so distressing and I felt really prepared, or like I knew how to recognize anxiety and depression, or like I knew how to recognize anxiety and depression even like psychosis.
Speaker 4:I was like ready for that because I had so many risk factors, with having years of infertility and all the medications that go with that, a history of loss, like all of these things, and I was like, well, let's just tick, the risks are there. But postpartum OCD I was not ready for, and so when it was happening and the intensity of the thoughts were just so intense that I truly was like horrified for months at myself and within myself how long did it?
Speaker 1:take for you to know that it was postpartum OCD.
Speaker 4:I think things didn't really kick off until, like I was three or four months postpartum, my husband was navigating some like really strange physical manifestations where we both had COVID, right at the end of my pregnancy too. So we're like is this long COVID Like what is happening here, where he was almost disabled? He couldn't pick up our daughter, he couldn't like close his hands. It was some sort of I think it's like tenosynovitis or something like that, whatever. So it was a lot on me and I went back to work at four months postpartum and there was just I don't even remember exactly what happened when I just know that it did and that it was the content.
Speaker 4:I was like this isn't just anxiety, this isn't just intrusive thoughts, like I'm having these. Like I'm checking windows, I'm like locking and unlocking our doors, I'm opening and closing our windows. I'm I put like different things in my daughter's diaper bag to try to protect us, even though we weren't leaving the home. I was like that just seems a little more intense. Yes, I had to ask a friend. I was like that just seems a little more intense. Yes, and.
Speaker 4:I had to ask a friend. I was like, I'm not a therapist, I'm a mom in need of some help, like what do you think? And she was like, oh, that's my specialty, it's postpartum OCD. I was like, okay, so we can like name this, but I don't want to do any sort of exposure to what I'm thinking about of exposure to no what I'm thinking about.
Speaker 1:I can't imagine erp would be like exposure response. Prevention therapy would be like helpful when your nervous system is already that overactive I don't.
Speaker 4:I mean it's like quote unquote gold standard for ocd treatment, but it's not something that I offer anyone navigating ocd but there is other options like inference-based cognitive behavioral therapy changed my life and allowed me to really see what I was doubting and essentially this like underlying story about how I'm negligent and if I'm negligent then these like truly horrific things were going to happen to my daughter, and that it would be like screening myself a little bit here, holding back from the content of it. It was like my fault and or my responsibility to also do something drastic if the drastic thing occurred thank you so much for sharing that.
Speaker 1:I think that's really gonna reach a lot of people listening how you had your baby after you had become a specialist right Yep In perinatal mental health. So would you mind sharing a little bit more how you decided to become a specialist?
Speaker 4:Yeah, winding journey for sure. I went to undergrad and wanted to be a veterinarian, so I always knew I wanted to help right and be a helper and maybe content for another episode for all of us. I'm a parentified child and so I knew I was good at helping and I really loved animals and grew up on farms, yada, yada. I was like, oh, a veterinarian. Long story short, biology and chemistry converged and I couldn't do it anymore. But I'd always taken psych classes and through different jobs and working with other therapists and helpers. After I moved to Duluth, that was when I was more interested in therapy, which I never thought I would get into. But then I worked with people who were navigating serious and persistent mental illness while pregnant, while having some form of like legal, child protective, social service etc. Involvement, and I did that for like three years before starting graduate school. And then it just went from there.
Speaker 1:And so when you like finished graduate school, you knew you were already going to specialize.
Speaker 4:Okay, yeah, it always has just fascinated me. There's so much to kind of nerd out about about a person, the female body really, and just the level of injustice related to things that we don't know and how so much of it is normed to like white men and their bodies. It's like I want to know about my body, but also other people's bodies, when they do this cool thing about how we all get here, which is like birth, I think I remember you describing it to me one time, as you saw it as like the ultimate upstream intervention.
Speaker 4:Oh, totally yeah when thinking of therapy, yeah, yeah, like help the mothers. Hello, yeah, I started doing infant, early childhood mental health, which is inherently so much about parental involvement and supporting the parent and supporting their child, right yeah.
Speaker 2:And we've been speaking to this idea of perinatal mental health. But I want to rewind a second and just give the listeners an opportunity to understand what exactly are we saying when we talk about perinatal mental health.
Speaker 4:Yeah, good point, yeah, so I think a lot of people have that stereotype. Or you might hear like, oh, I had postpartum too. That I think people mean like depression more often than not. But really, perinatal mental health is a mental health condition that happens during pregnancy, post-loss or in the year postpartum. There's some talks about maybe expanding that to the first three years after giving birth, I think, because we miss so many parents, sure that don't know or don't reach out until they have a toddler, and things are even harder. And so then it's like well, is this perinatal mental health or is this something else?
Speaker 1:at that point it's like untreated, yeah, perinatal mental health well, and I really wonder if even some of us might not, even because, you know, even when I was initially becoming a therapist, I didn't know that there were, like, all of these specialties, right, and that not every therapist is going to be trained in how to support some of perinatal mental health, right, like it really is a niche and it requires a lot of extensive knowledge and training to offer this specialty. And just picking out someone who has availability might not.
Speaker 4:Maybe they would be helpful, but might not be right, totally, yeah, and as kindly as I can say this, like lived experience is not enough.
Speaker 3:Yes, true that.
Speaker 4:Like we all have our experience, and there's just only so much that our experience informs us of when it comes to the wide variety of things, good and hard, that happen during these really crucial, wonderful, etc. Adjectives time of life Right, but that often people find themselves feeling really passionate about perinatal mental health or working with moms after they've had their own experience too I know and my my issue with that a little bit is that sometimes that can create maybe some bias.
Speaker 2:Is that sometimes that can create maybe some bias or some blinders where you see what you know Right? And I think there's just value in being sure you seek specialized care for what?
Speaker 2:you're going through, yeah, what you're going through. Yeah, because you might need kind of an unbiased and really specific mind or eye to help you Right. Yeah, with with perinatal mental health. You talked about some different seasons or experiences that people can experience this in, but can you speak to? Like, what would clue someone in that they might want to reach out to somebody? Yeah, what are some signs or things that they might be experiencing that would say like, hey, you should probably maybe schedule an appointment For sure For sure.
Speaker 4:Well, generally speaking, the diagnoses I suppose the conditions that a person could experience would be perinatal depression, anxiety, ocd, bipolar 1 and 2, birth trauma, so postpartum or perinatal ptsd and then psychosis. Those are the common diagnoses of this time and I mean I almost want to say, like anytime something feels off, that that's enough to get curious, to inquire, to turn to someone you might trust. That can be really hard too, and so, more specific than that, like when you're in the middle of it. It still is like whenever something feels off, and I know that people have a hard time trusting themselves and, like you were saying, like talking yourself out of it.
Speaker 4:I don't have all the answers for when someone might eventually reach out, but but if anyone could take something like if something feels off, like that's enough information, whether it's a doctor, a midwife, a doula, a friend, a support group, through, like PSI I think you've mentioned before at any point really, because I mean the worst case or the best case, I guess, is there's nothing and you're okay. Yeah, you still have access to somebody. If things get harder and if things are already hard enough, we could all use people. Don't answer, not answer, I guess oh, that's, it just depends.
Speaker 1:That's really good, I think. Even just the simple like if something seems off because we all are really indoctrinated with like strong arming ourselves through things, yeah, I mean, we're just not living in that.
Speaker 1:I mean maybe some people are in that like really communal aspect of like hey, I'm noticing, like you're not okay or being able to say it to ourselves fully, that strong arm mentality or just you know, I see it all the time, even in my clinical work without perinatal specialty, like it's just such a mentality we have to push through, yeah, and it's just not fair to ourselves. I mean, I know the whole thing about like it's not fair to your baby, but like it's not fair to us, right, right, to push through that much. If you're so terrified to you, know, I don't know, I was just terrified to like the driving.
Speaker 2:Oh my god, I really related when you said that, kirsten seriously the driving yeah, I remember my mom saying, like we got to get you out of the house, like let's go get coffee, and that would normally be.
Speaker 2:I mean like if you want to bait me that's like your carrot yeah, and, and I agreed, and there wasn't like one second that I remember being okay on that trip, even though I know it was 100% okay. Sure, and your bar for seeking care that you, you know, presented here is that if, essentially, any part of you deviates from what you are used to and I was just reflecting like what was my bar or what is it still?
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And mine was all the way into suffering and then needing to be there for a while to where, like it was life altering yeah, like it was life altering yeah, and just how like I work with people and I know stuff, but to hear the bar be set like way before, like way before that, yeah, I was like duh, like obviously, but yeah, like there, we deserve to be in the moment enough and experience this particular period of time without having to prove to ourselves or to anybody else that we are suffering right to seek care.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we deserve not to suffer yes, that isn't a prerequisite for support.
Speaker 4:Yeah, the whole point is to avoid that for sure, whenever possible, right or when, realize it that like that's a stronger call to action, totally.
Speaker 1:Yeah, one question just thinking about all of this, and you know a new mom considering, or a seasoned mom, just anyone kind of like oh, I do need to seek out support. Can they bring their baby to therapy?
Speaker 4:With me, yeah With you, yeah. Baby to therapy With me yeah With you, yeah, yeah. And I chuckle because so many people are surprised at that that as long as you're in Minnesota or Wisconsin, which is the two places I'm licensed, we can do telehealth so you can stay at home if that's helpful. Or, yeah, bring your baby and people will bring older children. It gets harder when they're more mobile, yeah, and we just have to modify and so it's so normal for me, but can be such an internal barrier or an external block when we think about childcare or lack thereof personally, locally.
Speaker 1:Yes, Nationally I mean we can do it. We probably will do a whole episode on childcare.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that whole crisis.
Speaker 1:That whole crisis. Yeah, that's impacting all of our mental health Totally, collectively.
Speaker 4:It's good clinical information too, to see how a parent is with their child.
Speaker 1:That's what I was wondering. Yeah, because you're kind of observing the bond and the interaction.
Speaker 4:Yeah, the interaction, yeah, yep, yeah, and for lack of a better word, I will like use that bond or that attachment to drive home like co-regulation, right, or that. You know, we don't want to rely on our children to make us feel better and stuff like that. But that, like when we're holding our baby and we're bouncing, like to shush them or to help them be soothed, that's also good for us too. Yeah, right, and like that's okay to acknowledge. Or if a baby is on you and that feels really distressing because you're nap trapped, like can we use the weight of them to also be grounding?
Speaker 4:I'm like we're okay here we can notice their breath, yeah just something like that is like really simple, really accessible, so that people don't find the bind of like okay, well, I don't have child care. My baby is colicky, they need me all the time. How do I take care of myself?
Speaker 1:well, with them how would you define co-regulation?
Speaker 4:probably like simplistically.
Speaker 4:I think of it as like when we both feel okay oh and that I don't know I'm trying to think of, like what's the scientific? Or like what would a real trainer say? I have no idea, I'm not good at remembering those things neither, but that, like when I okay, so is my daughter, who's now two, even if she's not okay, even if she's like totally losing it. I'm like I don't know why you're losing it, what is going on? But like that I can be okay, yeah, and really trying to tap in with a lot of effort and a lot of reminders and a lot of like sometimes checking out too that that's okay to come back.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think we all really connect philosophically how we. There's no such thing as spoiling your babies and how really like knowing that the more they are near you and on you and regulating with you and, you know, sharing your brain and nervous system, the better they're going to be and yes, I think, like them, better will be as long as we have those tools.
Speaker 4:Totally, yeah, yeah, and not a lot of us have those tools. Yeah, and not a lot of us have those tools Like our parents. Well, my parents I'll just say my parents didn't know how to teach regulation or emotions or things like that, and they my dad especially got better over time. Generation rare that people knew how to teach emotional regulation and skills like that yeah.
Speaker 4:I mean, it's hard work. You would like say it so simply, like, just do this, I get that. Like I, so get it. And a part of my practice is to like really humanize, like these are just things and we'll try them, and if they don't, we're going to find something else. But can we just keep it simple?
Speaker 4:yeah like it doesn't have to be this grand. Go meditate for an hour and there's this lovely. You know harmonica or not. A harmonica, a harp? I don't know if harmonica is soothing, a harp maybe a little jarring that's the folkiness of yeah, there you go, coming out I guess, but like something very beautiful and whimsical. It doesn't have to be like that I'm gonna put some harp on tonight.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think also that I we've kind of joked about it too, but then just that very real feeling of being touched out and how overwhelming and intense that is, and then you're like I'm a bad mom yeah, I don't want you on me anymore.
Speaker 4:Oh, that sensory overload is so real, yeah, so real and striking a balance of, like, how do we stay in our bodies but learn to respond before we get outside of this is too much. Yeah, get away from me with some expletives in there, right, or I have to escape this.
Speaker 2:I can't tolerate it yeah, and being and maybe doing that in a compassionate way. That isn't inserting judgment. What I learned about myself last episode the nervous system episode was that I do have some judgment there, when I don't tolerate things that I think I should tolerate, oh yeah, and especially when it's maybe early postpartum, where there's these moments or times that people are telling you don't you just love this, or aren't you so happy, or oh like, insert whatever phrase you've heard best years of your life yeah totally, and I I think there can be a lot of like self judgment sometimes, when maybe it's sensory overload, maybe it's that there are some mental health things happening and you're really not enjoying it in that way, yeah, or to that intensity that they're referring to how much judgment there can be and just realizing that like it, kind of like, is okay to be what it is in that moment.
Speaker 2:Sure and like there's support to help you and it doesn't have to stay this way. Right, but there's. You're okay to be feeling however you're feeling.
Speaker 4:Sure yeah, which I think in the, in the meat of it is like so, opposite of how it feels, like this is not okay. Yeah, I shouldn't be feeling that way, like that's the judgment, that's the guilt and shame that sneaks in.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 4:But that also paralyzes us, and then it's like, well, I can't talk about this. And then we're stuck, it's supposed to be blah, blah, blah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, I feel like we keep going on, on and on, but maybe one final question for the first time you're on our show would be our last episode was on ways to realistically care for your nervous system. So when we're overwhelmed especially like once, we accidentally went outside that window and didn't snap, or we did like dissociate and go on the phone or whatever it is Do you have any favorite practices you want to share with our listeners on how to bring ourselves back?
Speaker 4:Oh boy, yeah. So kind of where I immediately go is like psychoeducation, right, or just acknowledging, like this window, the window of tolerance, yes, right. And so hyper arousal is when we've gone way above.
Speaker 1:Fight or flight right yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, we're beyond dysregulation, we're totally outside of the window, or hypo arousal freeze way, way under. So part of it is figuring out. Where are we at here? Are we feeling enraged? Are we feeling frozen, like what's happening?
Speaker 1:So first, like curious about what state we're in.
Speaker 4:Yeah, as much curiosity as we can to try mitigate the shame, the judgment, the I shouldn't be acting this way. Yet here I am, because that doesn't help bring us back into this window, right, and to be responsive with whatever we find. So, if we're enraged, can we find an outlet? Can we, like a stereotypical like, scream into a pillow, right, but can you do something that matches the intensity of how you're feeling? Oh, I like that Like 20 jumping jacks, or yeah, I mean, I literally tell people to go outside and scream, but just watch your voice, because that like can really wreck your vocal cords or neighbors Right?
Speaker 4:Yeah, because that like can really wreck your vocal cords or neighbors, right, you're like um, yeah, um, or if we're frozen, like maybe we just need a minute to be there and can you bring a blanket in. Can you bring in sort of any kind of comfort, something that allows us to like, metaphorically, unthaw, oh my gosh.
Speaker 4:I'm loving this right Like getting some sort of like menu of when I go to this place. Can I do any of these things? Can I permit myself to do any of these things? And the usual like grounding or like progressive muscle relaxation is really powerful because that kind of it gets you in your body. It intensifies things a little bit as you flex your muscles but then relax them on purpose and experience relief.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's so many maybe, or just stress and overwhelm in general, like whatever is happening in the moment. What is a way like you could recommend to reconnect with your child, like something maybe you do yourself or that you would advise a client to try?
Speaker 4:um, put them somewhere safe and take a break, okay, but then come back, like the thing is to come back, to come back, yeah, yeah. I think a lot of people experience guilt and shame when it's like I was so upset that I had to put them in their crib and let them scream. Well, that's better than it getting worse and something happening. Gotten safe, got unsafe, right, yeah, yeah, so always coming back. I think there's a lot of power in repair and organizing. Like I was really upset. I wasn't feeling okay, I put you in your crib and now I'm back. That might've been upsetting. I was upset too.
Speaker 1:Isn't that that actually reminds me of? Isn't that kind of the research now about? It's not about like always being this, like amazingly regulated mom, like if you do lose it, which is normal and okay as long as the kids are safe, it's about the repair right. Yeah, totally yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, there's a lot of like humanizing the experience, then we need to humanize this. Yeah, right, yeah, because we are going to get upset, we are going to be dysregulated outside of that window, we are going to pop off and scream or whatever we might scare our children and to not leave them in that place where they're scared or confused and I really believe in name it to tame it but then fail it to heal it well, name it to tame it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, hear it well, thank you so much, celeste. Yeah, do you want to come back?
Speaker 2:sure, there's lots more we could talk about really fast I know about half hour just flew by yeah we will be sure to list where you can reach celeste in the stories, notes, show notes, yeah, and some other helpful resources that we've touched on through this episode.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thank you for being such an incredible resource in our community. Just really makes me feel good to know that you're helping.
Speaker 4:Yeah, well, and you too as well. With Mama you Belong, and Speaking the Unspoken yeah, thank you both.
Speaker 2:Thank you. Thanks for listening. We hope you feel seen. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with other mamas, subscribe to our podcast and leave us a review, if that's your thing. You can find me on Instagram, kirsten Demaree DPT, or through my clinical practice online at empowerorthoandpelvichealthcom infoandpelvichealthcom.
Speaker 1:And you can find me, molly, through my music at Sister Viri on IG or streaming on most music platforms like Spotify. Or you can find me through my clinical practice at Insight Counseling in Duluth, minnesota. You can follow us, too, or send us a dm on instagram at mama, you belong and we will see you next time. Please remember that when you're feeling alone, you still belong.