Holiday Overwhelm and Toddler Chaos: Seasonal Survival for Moms

Winter presses in and everything gets louder, especially the expectations placed on moms during the holidays. In this episode, we return from a hiatus to talk honestly about the mental load of motherhood in December, the pressure to create holiday magic, and how easy it is to perform joy while running on empty.

We swap stories, a road trip that dodged snowstorms, a surprise porcupine encounter, and a partner who literally clapped at a lamp.... But beneath the laughter is a deeper truth many overwhelmed moms know well: the invisible labor, perfectionism, and “shoulds” that make the holidays feel heavy instead of joyful.

We talk candidly about skipping Thanksgiving and Black Friday to protect our peace, how perfectionism hides in traditions we feel obligated to perform, and why some holiday rituals feel more like public performances than meaningful family moments. A gingerbread house meltdown becomes our stand-in for motherhood expectations, how tightly we cling to outcomes, and how quickly they fall apart with toddlers, sensory overload, and messy icing.

From there, we explore a gentler way forward for moms feeling burned out by the holidays: choosing fewer, truer rituals; loosening our grip on results; and letting magic show up where it actually fits, like spontaneous night sledding under yard lights.

The mental load of motherhood gets its due as we unpack the reality of gift planning, budgeting, buying, wrapping, and shipping while juggling work, sickness, and bedtime marathons. Gifting can be creative and loving when it’s supported, so we offer practical ideas for the next ten days: smaller gift lists, one decision a day, delegating pickups and shipping, intentionally sending some gifts late, and trading performative traditions for ones that fit your real family life.

If you’re a mom who needs permission to do less, feel more, and let go of holiday perfectionism—this conversation is for you.

If this episode made you feel seen, share it with a friend, subscribe for more honest motherhood conversations, and leave a review to help other moms find the show.
 💬 Tell us: what’s one holiday tradition you’re rewriting this year?

Transcript

Welcome Back And Winter Blues

SPEAKER_03 0:01

Hey mama, you belong. We're so glad you're here. We are your hosts, Molly, mental health therapist, singer and songwriter, tree hugger, and a new mom like many of you.

SPEAKER_04 0:18

And Kirsten, physical therapist, birth dua, deep feeler, lover of trees, and fellow mama. We hope you feel seen through these episodes and truly believe that you belong.

SPEAKER_01 0:38

Hello. Hi. Hi. We're back.

SPEAKER_03 0:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 0:46

After a like three-month idea. Right. I was leaving and everybody was mad that I was leaving. Don't mind me, everyone. I'm just gonna crack this slider. And I was like, I haven't recorded an episode since summer. Yeah. And so I was like, really? I'm like, yes. Yeah. Summer. Like it was before your show. Yeah. It was I think it was September. Which is technically still summer. Because we were talking about like going back to school. Yeah. And it was like right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:27

Uh-huh. I don't know. It's been a whirlwind. There's been so much going on in each of our own homes and lives. So we had to kind of take a hiatus. So we're glad to be back. And thanks everyone for coming back to listen. Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:45

And like m outside of the podcast, Molly and I have only hung out once. One time.

SPEAKER_01 1:51

Yeah. And then you came to my show.

SPEAKER_03 1:54

Yeah. So technically we've breathed the same air. Right. Two times. And but there's just like a lot.

SPEAKER_04 2:02

We haven't even unpacked the lives we've lived during this time yet.

SPEAKER_03 2:06

So we're just gonna unpack it live.

SPEAKER_04 2:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:09

You and me, Kirsten.

SPEAKER_04 2:12

Right. Right. And honestly, while my I don't feel like my circle is big, I feel like this whole I haven't even been able to unpack that feeling. Yeah. Is there for everybody?

SPEAKER_03 2:25

Oh, I think so. And luckily we're cozy on your new couch in your office under a blanket in our hats together because it's 10 below outside, probably about a 25 below wind chill. It's like so brutal. It's the darkest week of the year. We're almost to solstice one more week, but we have like seven and a half hours of daylight a day right now.

SPEAKER_02 2:50

I think.

SPEAKER_03 2:51

Yeah. Which we're just like we're all feeling it. It's intense. Right. Right.

The Porcupine And The Clap-On Lamp

SPEAKER_04 2:58

And this like true urge to just hibernate, but then you can't.

SPEAKER_03 3:02

No. I think that's the worst part about it is how naturally everyone feels like this would be lovely if we could all act like just hibernate and slow down and bake and rest and read. But instead you have to do all those things and everything else. Right. Yeah, and a lot of the time is dark and you're just tired. So let's double the expectations. Yeah. And be more tired. Right. Than the baseline tired we all are existing at. Uh-huh. But smile. But smile through it and wear cute holiday outfits and put your makeup on.

SPEAKER_01 3:50

It's so fun. Yeah. We're all having a great time.

SPEAKER_02 3:58

We're just staring at each other. Like there just aren't there just aren't words for the holiday cheer over here right now. The holiday cheer.

SPEAKER_03 4:06

Cheers. Cheers. All right, mamas. Okay. What are we gonna focus on today? Just catching up.

SPEAKER_04 4:15

Yeah, I think it'll take its own path when we get going. Yeah. Oh well. I've been waiting to tell you this hilarious story.

SPEAKER_03 4:22

Okay, please tell it. I need a good story.

SPEAKER_04 4:24

Yeah. And then most of the time when we start catching up, we don't record it. And we usually talk about some really good things. And then we start recording the podcast. And we forget them all. We do. And we try to like recap what we just said, sort of, but it just doesn't go well. So that's why we're recording it like this. But I I have been wanting to tell this story, and I was like, don't give it a don't share it outside of the podcast because it's too funny. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 4:53

It's not about you hitting a raccoon with your car, is it? No, I mean it was a porcupine. I mean a porcupine getting a quill stuck in your tar.

SPEAKER_02 5:00

And it wasn't many. And it was many quills. I just didn't do anything about it. You still are driving around with a porcupine quill in your porcupine quills in your tar. I did nothing about it. Well, it's still working, and you guys just did like a big road trip. So we traded cars with my mom. Oh, okay. So we did avoid that. But my mom drove it to and from the cities. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 5:30

And those are some tough quills.

SPEAKER_04 5:32

Yeah. Yeah. So no, I hit the world's largest porcupine. Yeah. This like late fall. It was dark. The road was a little bumpy and it just was existing in this dip in the road. And it was like all of a sudden I was right up on it. And I rolled right over it, like my tire. I didn't know if it was like a a small bear or a dog or like I don't know why I have this like fear of it being a human being laying in the road. Like, okay, maybe I just like expelled something weird about my brain. Deep dark fear. Yes, I am afraid of hitting a person laying in the road.

SPEAKER_02 6:15

So I turned around because I'm like, hit and run. You're gonna go to jail. Your life is over. Kids, your kids are. Just on my way to pick up one of them from basketball. And I'm like, my world is done. Go back and look. You can't leave the scene of an accident. And it was just the Northland's biggest porcupine.

SPEAKER_04 6:36

Oh my God. Um, yeah. So it did die, but sorry.

SPEAKER_02 6:43

Porcupine but everything was fine with my car.

SPEAKER_03 6:46

This show is dedicated to that porcupine. Right. That's not even your story, though. It's not. Side note. Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:53

Um and I love it because this story is not about me. Okay, good. Um I mean, not that I don't love the story.

unknown 7:00

Right.

SPEAKER_02 7:00

We get to laugh at my husband, which is like feels the gave permission. No.

SPEAKER_04 7:05

But he if he the the fact that he did this is just invitation to tell people. Okay. You can't do this thing.

SPEAKER_03 7:13

Still, we appreciate you.

SPEAKER_04 7:15

Yeah. You can't do this and not expect me to tell everybody. Um, we went to Florida recently.

SPEAKER_00 7:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 7:22

We drove there. And uh we are at our rental, um, of course, playing musical beds. There's three bedrooms, five of us. I weirdly had this expectation that I was gonna be able to sleep in the master bedroom with Phil and that the kids were gonna share some beds and oh, like a like a quote normal thing. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:49

Like I like you'd sleep in a bed with your husband.

SPEAKER_04 7:52

I didn't really factor in our normal current sleep situation. And I was really uh I struggled for a minute to be like, oh, I still have to sleep with her, them, whoever. Yeah. So I was like mad about it and I got better.

SPEAKER_03 8:10

Vacation didn't mean a vacation from being a mom. Zero vacation of that.

SPEAKER_04 8:14

Uh it was just like sandier. So there's like sand in the beds, immediately sand. And I was like, we haven't even been in here. Why is the floor sandy? Immediately, all of that sand goes into the beds. Um, I got the kids watching some movies in their respective bedrooms, and I was reading a book in this king bed, because of course there's a king bed. We have a queen bed in our current like home. There's a king bed in this rental, really wanted to lay in it. Yeah. So we had lamps on next to the bed. I'm reading a book. Phil's getting ready. He's trying to figure out how to turn these lamps off. And I'm just holding my book, reading, but like watching out of the corner of my eye, and he's like groping this lamp, like trying to figure out like where the switch is. Yeah. And like feeling up and down this lamp. And he's not in bed. He's like standing in front of a lamp. And then he like follows the cord with his hand, like maybe there's a switch on the cord. Does that a couple times, like, oh, did I miss it? And then he starts trying to find light switches on the wall. Have you seen the Nate Bargetzzi comedy on Netflix? And he like can't figure out how to turn the lights off in the hotel. So this is like rivaling that. Like he's trying everything, like the light switch on the walls, like, oh no, that does the fan. Turns on and off other lights. He comes back to the lamp, touches it again. And I'm like, what are you trying to do? He's like, how do you how do you turn this off? He he goes so intently, crouches down right up towards the lamp. It goes and lamp.

SPEAKER_02 9:52

I died. He thinks it's a clap on in this like modern rental of like a matching set of lamps. Nobody clapped to turn it on. He's like, Well, it's not the last time somebody clapped to turn it on. We've never had a clap on. No. Like, I don't know anybody who's had a clap on everyone.

SPEAKER_03 10:14

That's the last time someone had a clap on.

SPEAKER_04 10:18

So he's probably spent like multiple minutes trying to turn this lamp off. And finally, he like asks, How do you turn this lamp off? And I'm like, you tap like the base. It's like a touch lamp. Immediately it goes off. He's like, oh. So then he he acts like that wasn't a thing we needed to talk about. Uh-huh. He just gets in bed and immediately falls asleep. And I'm still, I'm still reading my book, and I can't stop thinking about the fact that he couldn't turn this light off and that he clapped at it. So I burst out laughing probably five minutes later, because I'm still rehearsing this lamp story in my head. And he wakes up and he's like, What? I'm like, you thought it was a clap-on! He doesn't share the same level of light. He doesn't think it's as funny as I do. So the next morning. Oh no, it's objectively funny. Like you clapped at a lamp. Like you couldn't turn a lamp off and you clapped at it. So then I tell the kids the next morning, and Clay's like, I don't know why that's funny. Lena barely laughed so hard. Like she knew what a clap on lamp was. Whatever. So anyway, um, couldn't turn a lamp off. And that was like a highlight, and I still laugh about it.

SPEAKER_03 11:36

I'm gonna think about that every time I'm trying to figure out how to turn it.

SPEAKER_04 11:38

So now randomly, when we're like around something, or like he's a he's doing like turning lights off, whatever. I'll randomly just go close to him and go.

SPEAKER_03 11:49

I also love the underlying funny part of the story that you knew how to turn it off the whole time.

SPEAKER_02 12:00

And he wouldn't ask for help.

SPEAKER_04 12:02

No, it's like watching him crawling around all over the room, throwing all the lights on and off. Like really working to get this light off. And I'm like, you just touch it.

SPEAKER_03 12:14

Oh that's so good. That's a great story. Yeah, thanks for saving that for the podcast.

SPEAKER_01 12:22

Yep. Uh yeah.

Skipping Thanksgiving And Black Friday

SPEAKER_03 12:26

So riding with that. Yeah. Well, so you guys went to Florida on a road trip, and that it seemed a little spontaneous.

SPEAKER_04 12:35

Is that yeah, it wasn't um it wasn't planned for like super long. We've never traveled at this time of year, like to somewhere like that.

SPEAKER_03 12:48

I was like, oh, you're in Florida. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:50

Like we usually go. There's a seashells picture. Yeah, I know. Um, but the uh rental place, my mom had stayed at before. Oh, cool. So I don't know if they sent her an email or she was just randomly looking to see what it was like, but she had sent me an email like, hey, this place is open. Mm-hmm. It's nice, stay here before. Um and it was very reasonably priced for this time of year. Weather looked like it was gonna be good. Great Thanksgiving break for school, they had an extra day off. It was kind of good timing. Um work-wise, like yeah. So we were sort of flexible in our our leaving dates uh based on like how when we rented it. Um just for the benefit of driving too.

unknown 13:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:44

So we kind of like waited and felt it out, but the weather we had some snowstorms to kind of dodge, so it ended up working great. And you missed Thanksgiving.

SPEAKER_04 13:59

We left the day after, so we didn't do Thanksgiving.

SPEAKER_03 14:02

Yeah. Was that kind of nice? Yeah, I just dip out of the normal craziness.

SPEAKER_04 14:10

Yeah, like I feel like we end up seeing we just do a lot of dinners and like sit-down things. Yeah. And a lot of it's just around tradition, right? And it's nice, but ma we don't do that super well. It's really taxing for the kids. Totally. They don't like the food. They don't necessarily like sit well at a table that long. You know, they're the ones like laying underneath the table or crawling or yeah. And I think these family get togethers have sort of morphed over time as more and more family members have kids, and as we've just been able to kind of make these decisions of like, yeah, are you done? Go ahead and get up. Like, don't try to keep them at the table. Yeah. You know, find find toys, set up timing, but like overall, Thanksgiving is just still one of those traditions where it's still just like what we've always done in terms of like the meal and yeah, it it it wasn't missed this year.

SPEAKER_01 15:24

You know? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 15:25

So we watched some of the parade on TV and we were packing and cleaning. And it was fine. That's great. Right. I was like, maybe we should do this all the time. We also missed like Black Friday. Oh. I have not purchased a single gift. I'm stressing about that.

SPEAKER_03 15:46

We were texting about that the other day, how we're both paralyzed right now about gift shopping.

SPEAKER_04 15:51

Right? And I I didn't when you look at something on a calendar, you don't factor in you're missing a week of what you would normally be doing. Yeah. Um and you can put your away message on for email and you can try to work ahead on certain things, but I just didn't factor in, like, oh, I would normally be whether it's on my couch or in stores, like crossing things off the list. And I didn't do that at all. I feel that now, but at the time I was like, what? I don't feel like I'm missing out at all. I'm so glad I'm not in my emails trying to figure out who gives the best deal on whatever thing.

SPEAKER_01 16:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 16:38

I it's just really wild when you're just fully removed from like your normal to be like, why is that such a big deal? I know.

SPEAKER_03 16:46

It's all created, it's all fabricated. Yeah. To just make you get into this mentality to start buying. It's really sickening. Right. It's not good for us.

SPEAKER_04 16:58

No, it felt really good to miss. I just am now stressed because I feel I feel like I missed out on something and now I'm just stuck with like whatever's out there. And I certainly don't want to shop that way.

SPEAKER_03 17:12

Yeah. It's like you went out into the wilderness for a while and came back a little bit rejuvenated, but now you're I'm still back in reality. Back in reality. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And now Christmas is a week and a half away.

SPEAKER_01 17:30

I know.

Holiday Perfectionism And Performance

SPEAKER_03 17:31

And it always comes so fast, but I don't know. Mm my sister and I were texting, and last Christmas was the you know, my first Christmas with having a with being a mom. And she validated it for me because I was like, why do I feel so awful? Why is this so hard? She's like, moms, it's just like this season is so much for moms, and it's just all on our shoulders. So I was curious. I I want to hear a lot from you about a lot of things, but how do you face perfectionism during the holiday season? What is that like for you? Because I think that shows up for a lot of mamas, myself included. Right?

SPEAKER_04 18:23

I think that has really there's been like peaks and valleys in how that shows up, depending on the age of the child, and kind of like culturally, socially. Um so I think back like way back when we were earlier married, still in this like kind of like Christian culture of this like tradition at Christmas time too.

SPEAKER_01 19:09

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 19:11

There was a lot of perfection stuff that came out then.

SPEAKER_01 19:15

Oh.

SPEAKER_04 19:16

Because it like had to look a certain way.

SPEAKER_01 19:17

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_04 19:18

And it had things kind of had to be done a certain way to be that form of Christmassy. And it was really exhausting because the expectation is to have it look a certain way and be a certain way and show up at all these things, and also you be almost act like it's no big deal. Mm-hmm. Like it isn't a ton of extra work.

SPEAKER_03 19:47

You're just happy to do it.

SPEAKER_04 19:49

Yeah. Yeah. When there is no extra support for it. Right. Um, like find the photographer, get the Christmas cards, print them. Send them to everybody. Um attend all these extra church gatherings. Be sure that, you know, you like have everybody dressed Christmassy, that you like talk to all these people, that your kids are available for all this stuff, that you have gifts for all these people and that it's wrapped nicely. And I it can just it's like never explode.

SPEAKER_03 20:26

That's a lot. Yeah. I mean, I do a Christmas card, but I do it at New Year's after it's done. Sure. And I I have a fun time sending them. I like make sure I actually just want to do it. Yeah. Because it's fun for me. But like the thought of having to do it just because you have to sounds so overwhelming and driving that perfectionism.

SPEAKER_04 20:47

Exactly. So that's like exactly kind of the point that I arrived at was the perfectionism for me comes when I'm performing. Mm-hmm. And it's supposed to be a certain way, look a certain way, and it isn't driven by what I want to be doing. Oftentimes that perfection stuff doesn't show up, or it doesn't show up in that same way. The other perfection thing that I personally struggle with that I feel is maybe a little bit more on the neurodivergent piece is um I often have these unexpressed, maybe like expectations or ideas of like how I thought something was gonna go. And I don't always realize that I didn't like tell everyone this plan that I had. But then when it doesn't happen the way I wanted, or we have to transition to a different plan that may still be equally cool, I can't and that switch gears. No, and then like we're gonna do this thing, and like everybody was gonna like it. And it is something I wanted to do, but so I don't necessarily think that's like perfectionism or um, but it might look that way externally. But when the true like perfection piece shows up Christmas time when I'm performing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:22

The Christmas outfits and the Christmas cards are like the perfect emblem of that. I have a story just to add in for me what perfectionism feels like right now because it's more subtle since I'm not like a in involved in an like an active like church community or anything like that. Um, and I know you're not anymore either, but like just it's just in the house of this. Like, I'm realizing I'm I don't know if it's just because of how I was raised, and I was like so lucky to have a stay-at-home mom, and like everything just felt magical when I look back on my childhood. So like I'm realizing that was my mom. I mean, obviously my dad was helping with that too, but like she was there doing everything, right? And the magic was her. Yeah. And I'm like, oh, I have to create or else it's not gonna happen. True. Um, and so I was like, oh, I just have this dream. We make a gingerbread house on like a snowy afternoon, but obviously he's one in a make me nay eat. And no, not even that. Because he's like oddly not into cookies or anything. Like, I don't know. Right now he's just thriving off vibes, as my friend Kathleen says. He's just he's in that toddler mode. He like two things has some milk and like one bite of a breakfast bar the whole day. It just thrives on vibes. But anyway, um, so I bought this like on sale gingerbread house from Target and got all excited and like set up the table, put on the Christmas music, plugged in the lights, and like started getting it all together and put the icing in the bag. And I'm like trying to put it together, but I have a one and a half year old and he doesn't want to be put down. So the second I start focusing my attention on anything, he starts crying and wants mama to hold him. Yeah. So I'm the whole time like trying to like hold him, and I get really like overstimulated by sensory stuff, and the icing started coming out the opposite way out of the bag, all over my hands. And then it was really crappy icing. And so I like had put it all together and was trying to set the house. Yeah. And, you know, like take my hands away and the whole just crumbles and falls apart onto a heap. And August doesn't just sobbing. Yeah. Because like he is like, messy. He doesn't like messy fits on my hands, so he's crying because of the icing on your hands. And I'm about and I'm about to not even on his, on mine. Yeah, he's stressed out because I have icing on my hands. The gingerbread house has just collapsed into the heat. There's just stuff everywhere. Uh-huh. It's just like within a matter of minutes, a complete mess and a fail. And I'm like, okay, that to me kind of sums up the perfectionism. Like, I have this idea in my head, it's gonna be perfect and sweet.

SPEAKER_02 25:29

Yeah, and then it's like may not.

SPEAKER_03 25:31

And then it's just comically a mess. Like the whole house is always, you know, just a mess. And that's now just a waste of ten dollars.

SPEAKER_04 25:42

Right. But you did want that though. I did. But you were really tied to the outcome.

SPEAKER_03 25:48

Yeah. So moms who can craft with her kids like more power to you. Right.

SPEAKER_04 25:54

Bravo. Right. And I I truly think some of that too, I mean, wanting to create magic for your kids is super sweet. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 26:05

And you should make gingerbread house by your like for yourself.

The Gingerbread Meltdown And Real Magic

SPEAKER_03 26:14

Yeah. By yourself. Next time he's napping, yeah, without being attached to my body, I will go down and bake some gingerbread and try to make a house. Right. Right. For yourself. For myself. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 26:26

But it is hard when you are like some of it is sort of tied to the outcome. Yeah. I can't tell you how many times it's not. It's so true. It's tied to the outcome. It is. Yeah. And that just does make it really hard. And I don't really I don't think that's wrong. Cause like obviously you buy all the stuff and you go through the work, like you hope it doesn't collapse before you even get it like decorated.

SPEAKER_03 26:45

Oh yeah, we didn't get it decorated at all.

SPEAKER_04 26:47

Yeah. But I like how many times things have been ruined because they started fighting in the middle of it. I'm like, what's the hell? Like, I'm done. This was supposed to be this like thing. Look at all this stuff. Look at what we're doing. And you're fighting. I'm out. There's been a like, I can't even tell you how many times that's happened. Oh. Yeah, I bet it's just not and sometimes like some of the magic has ended up happening when you're not even trying. Um it gets dark most of the time, and we have a big hill uh in this on like the side of our house, and it's perfect for sledding. And so after dinner, if it's snowing or had snowed, um, they love to go sledding. And I that never that didn't start because we were trying to create magic. It was just the fact that like we worked during the day, and the only time we could go sledding with them was after work. Yeah. And so it was like, yep, we'll get out there after dinner, and it happened to be dark. So we have these like spotlights on the side of our house. We turn them on and we're like sledding at night under the lights, kind of. And they love going outside and playing in the snow at night now, and it's because of that. And it wasn't on purpose. And so I think like the gingerbread thing might have been a flop this time.

SPEAKER_03 28:15

Right.

SPEAKER_04 28:17

But there might be a lot of other things that you end up creating without trying that they will remember and honestly will become a tradition. And it was just because of what you did, and it wasn't because you were out to create magic for them.

SPEAKER_03 28:31

Yeah, I love that. Yeah, we can have so many ideas and hopes and plans, and it's just like, what is that quote? Like, life is what happens when you're making other plans. It's like that's when things just spontaneously the magic shows up. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 28:49

Yeah. But the performance piece is where a lot of true perfection shows up. Yeah. And I do feel a lot better about pouring more of the energy into the things that I really do want to do. Um, like I think Elf on the Shelf is a current place where a lot of moms feel pressure and maybe a little bit of like perfection because it's like an everyday performance, and you have to be like planned out and prepared and have a storyline and set it up. And I know moms who love it.

SPEAKER_03 29:29

Really?

SPEAKER_04 29:29

And they are like, this is awesome, and I love it. I love being creative, and it's so fun. And in that case, like high five, that's amazing.

SPEAKER_03 29:38

High fives too, because I could never do anything.

SPEAKER_04 29:42

I know there are other moms out there that are like, oh my gosh, and I have to do this thing, and it has to be so creative and new and fun. And they're like forcing themselves to do this thing that they truly do not like and probably don't have energy for because of this look that they think Christmas needs to have. Like it's just another dream. Yeah. Yeah. So there's plenty of ways to be magical. Just pick the ones that you, you know, want for you and your family, not ways that you just want to perform for them. Right. Because I kids can also tell when you're not loving it.

SPEAKER_03 30:21

Oh yeah. They're gonna pick up on that. Yeah. For sure. I think the other way perfectionism oh, I mean like kind of back to the Christmas shopping thing, like both you and I, which I don't know if if this is just gonna get like super gendered for a lot of families, but who are like um heteronormative, but like so why do you and I default do all of the shopping and all of the gift planning? Because I've been I mean, I know why. It's just not Chad's strength, and he doesn't think about it, and then he's like shopping, you know, like the day after someone's birthday and all that. So I took it on years ago before we had a kid, but now it's just like default me. I do it for both of our families. Yeah. All the presents, all the nephews, all the everybody. And I try to keep it simple, but this year I'm just feeling like so overwhelmed by it. There's this like every year, there's this tradition where we make a calendar for my parents, me and my siblings, of like the last year of pictures of family. Sure. And it's cute and I love it. I loved gift giving. Like it's one of my love languages. Yeah. But when I get into this paralyzed place in freeze mode with it, it could be like so fun to put photos and recap on the year and all of that. But I don't, I've been avoiding it, and now I'm gonna have to pay like rough shipping because the thought of having to like open up Shutterfly and like pick out photos from the entire year of all of our family stuff. Like, like again, I want to do it. It makes them happy, and I'm happy to make it for them. But why am I having such a block on opening the up?

SPEAKER_04 32:19

Well, right. So giving gifts is a way to show love. Yeah. And it's a way to be creative. Yes. And I think that there's probably that's probably part of the reason why we've become default. We're good at it, we're proactive, we get things done at a time, right? But we aren't afforded, there isn't this balance in that. So, like, that's a task. But we're not afforded another extra however many hours a week during the month of December to do this, we're also the primary magic creators. We're the primary sick parent. We are bedtime parents. Yes, like we're we're the ones doing all of the other stuff, which all of that stuff seems to be even more intense during this time, anyway.

SPEAKER_03 33:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 33:18

So, like, if I was given every Saturday or even a half day every Saturday, where it was like the the other stuff was taken care of, and I was able to devote this time to this task of gift giving for everybody.

SPEAKER_00 33:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 33:37

And doing it on a budget that we can afford.

SPEAKER_03 33:41

That's the other thing, right?

SPEAKER_04 33:42

Yeah, and having it be intentional and stuff they're actually gonna use, stuff we actually want to give them and then have time to wrap it and be sure that like we're bringing it to the appropriate gathering. We don't forget it at home, or that we have enough time to ship it. All of that requires going and mental energy.

SPEAKER_03 34:02

Through UPS. Yes. It's like one of the last things.

SPEAKER_04 34:06

Oh my gosh, I'll drive around with stuff in my car forever.

SPEAKER_03 34:10

I have like a whole pile because I just can't do it.

The Invisible Mental Load Of Gifts

SPEAKER_04 34:13

I know. So it isn't that having a list of people to buy gifts for and then finding the gifts is hard. But when you don't provide me any amount of time in a proactive manner to do it, and you don't take anything else off my plate, and you act like it's not literally not even happening. And it's like, oh, do we have everything? Like, what time do we have to be there?

SPEAKER_03 34:44

I am about to like internally combust. You said something really important too about how it's creative. And like for me, creativity flows when I feel like centered and grounded and like I have space to myself. You know, like I got enough space to exercise and get outside and eat three solid meals that day and stay hydrated. Like I did the things to take care of myself where I then the creativity flows. And because I'm so drained right now and behind after like illness, back-to-back illnesses, right? For like three months. Yeah. So like now I'm at this place where I'm realizing after you said creativity, I'm like, that's what it is. I have zero flow. I have none. No. No, and so then it becomes a chore to recover right now. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And yeah, so then it's a chore, and then you just put it off because you have 400 other chores to deal with. Right.

SPEAKER_04 35:53

Right. And the only way to change it is to delegate and then watch it happen in a last minute or truly like, or they're gonna miss it.

SPEAKER_03 36:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 36:07

So instead, I'm gonna hold on to it, do it, and then shame myself for not feeling joyful about and be so resentful to my partner because they they can't, yeah, won't, choose not to, and they're not helping me do it in a way that's actually helpful.

SPEAKER_03 36:29

It's a complete blinder situation.

SPEAKER_04 36:34

And then I and then I'm like, I'm so mad. And that's like where we're at right now.

SPEAKER_01 36:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:41

Because I haven't bought any gifts. I think that's the thing. I just get I'm just like quietly fuming that it's just not even on the radar. It's just not even a how's it going? How are you feeling about all the gifts? I know you take that on. It's always kind of a Yeah, just like uh, oh like it's taken care of.

SPEAKER_04 37:02

Like Yeah. And how great would it be to go through your life and like literally never have to think about certain things and then have them just happen.

SPEAKER_03 37:13

Yeah, I guess that was just moms.

SPEAKER_04 37:15

It was just moms the whole time. It was moms, yeah. And they were mad the whole time.

SPEAKER_03 37:25

Unless they're in a certain community and you're supposed to just be extremely they're just dissociated and they don't know.

SPEAKER_04 37:35

They're sh internally shaming themselves for not internally feeling happy, joyful, and yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:41

But we're able to acknowledge that we're slowly self-combusting over here. Yeah. And if you are too, we see you.

SPEAKER_04 37:49

Let's just have like a combusting party.

SPEAKER_03 37:52

And the funny thing is, is like I can never bring this up to my partner. Right. Um because he will feel really bad. I don't think he's gonna listen to that. I don't think Phil has listened to a single episode. Like, I don't want this show to ever become like where we just rag on our husbands, because that not is not what this is. But like I think the problem is more universal in that it's the mental load of moms amplified by four million times during the holiday season of your unseen invisible labor. And if you try to name it, it's not really even understood what you're trying to name because they do a lot too, right? Like I know Chad has blown the driveway like four times in the last week and a half, and it's been very time consuming. It takes like three hours of time, right? Like, so it's not like we have these like deadbeat husbands. No, doing nothing, but it's just it's just the divided gendered roles, right? That we're feeling that.

SPEAKER_04 39:00

I've like retraced this and tried to follow it back and be like, where, how did this happen? Like, he is really involved and active. Like he coaches two basketball teams right now, both my oldest and my middle.

SPEAKER_01 39:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 39:18

And there's tournaments most weekends or games most weekends, practice four nights a week. He still works because I'm home because that's what we chose, because I cannot delegate all the things that I do and have them be done in a way where they aren't gonna fall back on me.

SPEAKER_02 39:42

Right.

SPEAKER_04 39:43

And until we can work to get there, we chose the way life looks so that I don't need to be the crisis manager. And part of us being sort of proactive about it. Is for him to work more inside the home and for me to work less outside the home, which just looks like actually remote working inside the home. Right.

SPEAKER_02 40:11

While doing everything else.

SPEAKER_04 40:12

While doing everything else. But for me to be physically available to manage all these things, like medical appointments, teacher conversations, scheduling all the things, to be sure that stuff doesn't fall behind. Um so like I go back of like, I chose this. I can't be mad about it. Yeah. He's operating within the roles that we agreed upon. And yet I still feel super resentful. Yeah. Because I still don't feel seen in all the stuff I do to keep our family afloat.

SPEAKER_03 40:54

Right.

SPEAKER_04 40:54

And then I'm like, what am I even asking for? What does that mean to be seen in my relationship? What would that actually look like? I don't think he had that in terms of like uh his mom did everything. Oh, like a like a model. But he never had it modeled of like how his mom was recognized in the home. It was very biblical. So like that was not needed. She was recognized by Christ for what she was doing. And this was her way of loving her family. She didn't need external validation. And so then I'm like, why do I do?

SPEAKER_03 41:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 41:32

And he didn't ever have that modeled. And we've just we're both kind of like in still the trenches in some ways, where like we don't even have time to converse about it.

SPEAKER_03 41:47

Oh, that's the other thing.

SPEAKER_04 41:49

In a way where it's not emotional and heated. Yeah. Yeah.

Resentment, Roles, And Being Seen

SPEAKER_03 41:55

I feel like too, what you're naming reminds me of kind of the like um the really hard times I was having early postpartum. Like when I would be quietly shaming myself for having the resentment feelings and stuff. I'd be like, um, you chose this. You wanted to have a child. You fought through, you know, three years of infertility to have this child and to be a mom. So you shouldn't feel this way. And I feel like that's a recurring theme in motherhood. It's like just when you think you have some stuff figured out, it just expands and gets even more complicated and more challenging. And then you're right back to that same mentality of like, well, I shouldn't be mad about this because I wanted this. Right. But I didn't know that that was gonna be this.

SPEAKER_01 42:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 42:59

Like if I, if we would have had this conversation of, okay, here's what life is gonna look like and why. Right. If I knew that it was gonna feel this way, I I would have rewritten some of that.

SPEAKER_01 43:15

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 43:16

To be like, actually, and you know, then what really sucks is when you do try to rewrite it and you do say, hey, this isn't working, and then they're like, okay, I'll do this stuff. I'll do it. And then they don't do it. And then you're like, yeah, mm-hmm. Good. I'm glad, I'm glad. So then you have to go back and do it again, anyway. Which is why we didn't delegate in the first place. Yes, which is why I just was gonna do it. Because you won't actually do it.

SPEAKER_01 43:51

If I knew that it was gonna be like this, I wouldn't have agreed. Yeah. So I just wanna so we do we have two weeks till Christmas, basically, right?

SPEAKER_04 44:08

Week and a half. A week and a half. Let me have two weeks, please.

SPEAKER_02 44:13

Can we do it late? Right.

SPEAKER_04 44:15

But like we aren't gonna remap our life roles right now.

SPEAKER_03 44:22

We're not you mean even if I procrastinate it until the end, we can't just completely reorganize our roles.

SPEAKER_04 44:30

It kind of is what it is right now. Yeah, that's true. What like if we just admit that, but also want to be okay. Do you have thoughts on like how you're gonna pursue the next week and a half to be okay through it, even though you know it is what it is right now?

SPEAKER_03 44:54

I'm gonna finish that calendar. Okay. It's eating away at me.

SPEAKER_02 44:59

Yeah, check it off the list.

SPEAKER_03 45:01

I think that's just it. It's just plodding through. It's like recognizing how far you have to go and where you're at, and then continuing to plod through. And it was nice to like pause and feel validated that I'm not the only person doing this right now and carrying this load. No. Um, I might, you know, send a few gifts late to the people who don't care. And I'm certainly not going to have like a major deadline on the holiday cards, which I never do because I just wouldn't get them done anyway. But I'm going to go to bed earlier and like not. I think the problem is is a lot of the thinking about it and stressing about it and not doing anything. That for me is what gets me really riled up.

SPEAKER_04 46:05

Yeah. That can intensify it. So sleeping so you can't think about it.

SPEAKER_03 46:12

Sleeping so I can't think about it, and then like just whittling away and doing like small bits of it. Like tomorrow, I'm for sure gonna go get those daycare provider gifts. Like, that's one of the things. It's just like, oh, I have to do that. I can't forget that. Yeah. You know. Um stuff like that. But just lowering my expectations a little and trying to get done what I can so I'm not just overthinking it all all the time.

SPEAKER_01 46:39

Yeah. What about you?

SPEAKER_04 46:42

I think if I I I do need to actually come up with like plans for what we're gonna do for for people.

SPEAKER_03 46:55

Like, do you do lists or what are your Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 46:59

I think if I like if I can embrace the fact that this is a creative thing, this can be a creative thing, and has been historically before I got really overwhelmed with the kids and everything.

SPEAKER_01 47:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 47:18

And if I can let it be that a little bit in the thought process, um I might enjoy it more. So I think that's where the creativity will come in, is just be uh still being thoughtful and plan it out a little bit. Yeah. Then I can delegate actually getting the things. Yeah. Because what I don't want is to just delegate, like, hey, you go buy a gift for this person, because it isn't gonna be intentional or thoughtful. It's just them checking it off. When I do like the creative piece and the intentional piece. The intention behind it. So I think I'm just gonna think of it all and search things out, and if it requires going to pick it up, I'm gonna have him do it. Nice.

SPEAKER_01 48:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 48:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:17

Yeah, one way or another we're we're gonna get through it. It's just it's a really fast season. The month of December is just I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 48:30

It's like one quick sleigh ride and then it's over. And thinking about gifts too, like it just it's hard because the more we keep seeing, you know, like you're talking about with Black Friday and missing that and just where our country's going with this just awful authoritarianism and billionaires and just like obscene wealth and stuff. It just makes me want to like buy less and just be with people more that I love and not overdo it with gifts. Yeah. Um, and not get materialistic right now. But I know it's still kind of an expectation is to do things for people.

Practical Plans For The Next Ten Days

SPEAKER_04 49:18

So and not everyone feels that way. And I feel pressure to meet their expectations for Christmas, right? And not stay genuine to myself and what I actually want to gift them. Exactly. So then you're like feeling that conflict as you're shopping, and it's much easier to just put that off and then not feel it. Yes. And it takes that much more effort to find something that these people will like and have it be local and within a budget. Yeah. It is way easier to just go on to Amazon, Target, whatever, and just find something and send it. Right. I would love to go to the craft fair and slow down, right?

SPEAKER_03 50:05

But that takes so much more time. And it's always during nap time when I'm like, I should really go to that craft fair. Dang it, I missed it. It's gonna be over by the time he wakes up. Yeah. And I don't want to take a toddler in there anyway.

SPEAKER_04 50:16

Right. So I think I can do that whole creative, support local, meet people's expectations if I can have time carved out to do that and look on my phone and think of these local people and not just show up at a store. Yeah. And think I'm gonna find something. I'm gonna set a calendar reminder.

SPEAKER_03 50:45

Early October, you and I are gonna go to a craft fair. Yes. Start the process. Start way sooner. I say it every year, and then I'm like, I have plenty of time. Yeah. But I have really bad timeliness.

SPEAKER_04 51:00

So I I would love to be done shopping before Christmas.

SPEAKER_03 51:06

Someone out there is listening and you are already done. Send us your magic ways.

SPEAKER_04 51:12

Especially if you're like avoidant.

SPEAKER_03 51:14

Yeah. You know, if you're a highly avoidant, anxious person and you figured this out.

SPEAKER_02 51:21

Let us know your tricks. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 51:23

All right. Well, we'll happy shopping. Happy shopping. Don't support Jeff Brazos. All right. Talk to you soon.

SPEAKER_00 51:42

Mamma, you belong. Mama, you are seen. We are connected like the mother trees. Mamma, you belong. Mamma, you are seen. Strong as the mountain and gentle as the stream flowing underneath and throughout the stories of our lives. Centering each other so families can thrive. Centering each other so families can thrive.

SPEAKER_04 52:36

Thanks for listening. We hope you feel seen. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with other mamas. Subscribing to our podcast and leaving us a review is one of the best ways for other people to find us. So if you enjoy what you are hearing or if it resonates with you, please subscribe and leave us a review. It would mean a lot. You can find me, Kirsten, at empowerortho and public health.com or on Instagram at Kirsten Demoray DPT.

SPEAKER_03 53:12

And you can find me, Molly, through my music at Sister Veri on Bandcamp or other streaming platforms, or through my clinical practice at Insight Counseling in Duluth, Minnesota. You can follow us or send us a DM on Instagram at MamaYouBelong, or email us if you have questions, ideas, or just want to connect at mamayubelong at gmail.com. We will see you next time.