Type C Mom Survival: Mom Burnout, Messy Homes, and Parenting an AuDHD Kid

If you’re feeling overwhelmed by the invisible load of motherhood...

This podcast is for you.

Today, Kirsten and Molly talk about the messy middle of motherhood, from spring energy and cluttered homes to the reality that “finishing everything” is a myth:

• spring transitions and the pressure to do it all 
• "Type C" mom life, executive function, and choosing what actually matters 
• the invisible stress of clutter, and the mental load 
• Molly loses "preferred parent" status and explores the emotions that come with it 

Then Kirsten shares a raw and heartfelt update on her eldest daughter's AuDHD journey, and what changed when she and her husband stopped forcing school and started centering safety:

• IEP advocacy, school transitions, and why fifth grade collapsed 
• pulling a child from school, and the real work of homeschooling 
• AuDHD in girls, high masking, and how she presents at home can look “worse” 
• deciding on trying medication and navigating side effects
• anxiety support, and what improvement actually looks like 
• co-regulation at night, and releasing outdated “giving in” narratives 
• returning to school with therapy and a plan led by the child 
• what a short med gap revealed about regulation and resilience 

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Transcript

Episode Welcome And Theme

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Hi, I'm Kirsten. I'm a mom of three. I'm a physical therapist and a birth doula.

SPEAKER_02 0:08

And I'm Molly, a mental health therapist, specializing in trauma, a mom of one, and a singer and songwriter. We started Mama You Belong to help moms feel seen who are in the thick of it because we're in the thick of it.

SPEAKER_01 0:29

We certainly don't have all the answers, but we're gonna talk about it.

SPEAKER_02 0:34

And keep unfolding all of the things that it means to be a mom in this era. So thanks for being here. We hope you feel seen.

SPEAKER_00 0:45

Mama, you belong. Mama, you are seen. We are connected like the mother trees. Mama, you belong. Mamma, you are seen. Strong as the mountain and gentle as the stream flowing underneath and throughout the stories of our lives. Centering each other so families can thrive. Centering each other so families can thrive.

SPEAKER_03 1:35

Hi Kirsten. Hi we're sitting in my office for a change overlooking like superior.

SPEAKER_01 1:42

Yeah, I this is the first time I've seen it. Right? And I always know you're like, oh, it's so sunny. I love my office. And literally it's a corner office overlooking like superior. So pretty sweet. I know.

SPEAKER_03 1:57

This is like maybe a good new recording spot. Yeah. I think so. Maybe we can do a video sometime so everyone can watch with us. Uh-huh. I watched the first ship come in this week. Yeah, and I get why it's so cool. Yeah. Pretty exciting. Mm-hmm. Well, we are having a little recording time, and then we're gonna walk up and go to the No Kings rally together. Yeah, I'm excited about that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:21

We didn't have currently signs, but I'm just excited to go.

SPEAKER_04 2:27

Yeah. We didn't get our stuck together.

Spring Energy And Selective Chores

SPEAKER_03 2:32

It's okay. It's okay. We're gonna go. That's what matters. It is, that's exactly it. Well, we've got a couple things we're gonna check in about today. How are you doing?

SPEAKER_01 2:43

It's like always a loaded question. And I feel like it's been like probably over the last year, we are all trying to figure out how to answer that. Yes. Personally, I'm okay. We have just had a lot a lot of transitions, and spring is just another big transition. So I feel some energy like moving like that. Like I'm excited about some change. But randomly just have these moments of feeling really tired. So trying to remember to like conserve some of that energy. It's like the energy where I'm like really excited about the garden and I'm excited about warm weather and the sunshine later in the evening. Yes. And, you know, I'll be, I'm gonna, whatever, like all this housework, like I'm gonna do all this. It's gonna feel so good. And then halfway through I'm like, why did I do this? Like, who cares? No one, you know, like do I even care? I think I just got started. And so trying to like direct this energy towards things that like matter, which is harder than I think sometimes. Yeah. And what kick this stuff what really matters? Is it a clean house? No. No. It's like me, you know? Yeah. So trying to figure out like what would make me feel good. So like I washed my sheets yesterday because I knew it feels good, you know, and like vacuumed my room. Things like that where I'm like, I care. Like I I washed the I cleaned the shower today. So I was like, I feel good with things like that. But I like the kids' rooms, you know, the stairs with like piles of stuff to carry up the stairs, don't care about that. Left it. So trying to figure out, like, no, if I'm gonna put this energy somewhere, like where do where am I gonna benefit from it? But it's trickier. I'll just get going. It's like if you give a mouse a cookie book, except a mom, or like you open a closet to put something away.

SPEAKER_03 4:48

And you're like, oh now I need to re-organize this entire thing because it all falls down when I open it. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 4:54

So it's like it that happens so easy for me. So to stop in the middle and like let stuff be, let the closet be what it is. Let the rest of the bathroom be what it is, but just do the thing that like I know I'm gonna benefit from. That's like a an like a skill.

SPEAKER_03 5:09

That is a skill to actually stop getting into something else and just do that thing. I don't have that skill yet.

SPEAKER_01 5:16

Or somehow to conserve energy and to stop. Yeah. Where it's gonna be incomplete and it's not you didn't do all the sheets. You didn't, you know what I mean? You didn't vacuum the whole house. It was just that one room in order to have energy later.

SPEAKER_03 5:31

Yeah. Yeah, to not totally burn yourself out and try to clean the entire house from top to bottom.

SPEAKER_01 5:36

Leaving things like incomplete doesn't feel good.

SPEAKER_03 5:39

Yeah, it doesn't.

Laundry Piles And Type C Shame

SPEAKER_01 5:40

But it goes back to like, why are you doing it? And I think it's easy to convince myself that I would somehow feel better if everything was done. But that's a silly idea because the list is never done. It's never done. I'll just find more stuff. So it feels good to have the energy shifting. We went to an indoor baseball tournament last weekend. I didn't know they had indoor baseball. Like they practice inside, but like games. Wow. I'm a fan, really. Yeah. Because like you don't have to lug all of your like we had a backpack with snacks and stuff, but you don't have to lug like your chairs and sunscreen. Yeah, and like extra clothes and blankets, and so I was like, this is kind of nice. Does sound nice. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 6:29

Cool. Yeah. It's funny you mention all the housework stuff because I was gonna tell you why I was running late today was I was finally tackling the mountain of clothes that have been in my bedroom. Like you have to put them away? Like I've been living out of three laundry baskets of clean clothes for like two weeks, which is very common for me. It's always been a thing, but like gets worse now with having a kid that I have to also put his clothes away.

SPEAKER_01 6:59

I know.

SPEAKER_03 6:59

I'll put their clothes away, I won't put mine away. And the mountain was just getting so bad I couldn't even like keep it upright anymore and it's falling down. So I was trying so hard to get it done before meeting you. Yeah. It's really good when I have like a time frame where I'm like, I have to get this done in this window. Oh yeah. And almost did it. But like stopping to leave those piles of like unfolded socks really was painful.

SPEAKER_01 7:28

It is. And it's like, why all of a sudden do I care? It's all or nothing. Really. All or nothing.

SPEAKER_03 7:34

It's getting it's transitions and getting started on a task when you feel overwhelmed by everything, when you feel sad. And it's like, why would I clean my house when I feel sad? And yeah, like getting the energy shifting with spring. It's like it's just so hard to want to do those things. Like, you know, they feel good, but there's also not like a perfect system. Like we live in old houses that are falling apart, right? And like I live with a carpenter, so naturally, does he fix anything in our house? No, because he doesn't have time because he has his own business. Right. So like it's on his list, but he'll get to it in 2028, maybe to finish those shelves in our closet. So it's it's just always a reminder of how unfinished everything is in our old homes. And yeah, it's it's you do.

SPEAKER_01 8:23

It forces you to interact with things that are bigger issues that are overwhelming. So avoidance is like you kind of naturally know like that's gonna be that's opening a box that you just can't even do anything about, and it's too much. It's too much. Does it make you feel better that I currently have one huge basket of clothes, I think from three weeks? Yes. And it's like top of high and I have like four sweatshirts like laying out on top of it, and I dug out of that basket to wear what I'm wearing today. Yeah, well, you look unwrinkled. It's yeah. Right. But I've had to have conversations with my husband because he does the majority of our laundry. Oh. And he he will put the kids' clothes away or tell them to go put their clothes away. But for he doesn't put my clothes away. I don't need him to do that. Yeah. But I don't put my clothes away either. And I have come out and said, does it bother you that I don't put my clothes away quickly? Yeah. If ever. Because if our roles were reversed and I did laundry and you didn't put the clothes away, I know that I would feel away about it because Yeah, like it would be like, I did all this work and you're like not even acknowledging it, sort of, by putting clothes away. And he kind of looked at me like, Why would I care what you do with these clothes? Oh, funny. Like he didn't, he's like, I don't care. However, it does bother him when our oldest doesn't put her clothes away and she has a pile of clothes in a basket. So that has come full circle because he has commented on that, um, just in relationship to kind of like what is appropriate to expect from her. You know, like she can do these certain things, or, you know, she has been able to do these certain things, and then yet she has a whole pile of clothes, no matter how many times he tells her she won't put her clothes away. And I was like, Yeah, I don't put my clothes away. So I mean, I it might be really overwhelming for her to look at two weeks' worth of clothes in a basket and like not be super motivated and not be able to fit her clothes in her drawer and kind of get overwhelmed because I am like that.

Minimalism Fantasies In Real Homes

SPEAKER_03 10:36

Like you actually understand how it feels in a similar brain. Yeah. Oh, that's interesting. I mean, I think our theme today is being type C, which is my whole algorithm now on Instagram. Like every reel is like, I'm a type C mom. I just push everything in a drawer to clean the clutter. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. And I didn't even know type C was a thing, honestly, until that started happening. But I like I just I can't stop like figuring out. I okay, here's the problem. I think what it is is that you always have in your mind that you should be doing something better. Like you should have a clean house and systems of organization and stuff like clearly have a place where they go. And so, like when things get cluttered and crazy and chaotic, it I think it makes me feel even worse about how I don't have good systems and I don't take the time to do these organization things. But that's just not my skill set.

SPEAKER_01 11:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:46

I don't like to do that.

SPEAKER_01 11:47

Yeah. And do you really have to? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:50

So I don't know if any other moms listening can relate, or maybe we have like type A moms could listen.

SPEAKER_01 11:56

And they're like, Y'all, you can't do it. Like it's hard. Yeah. Yeah. No, I know. I always so when I like let's say I go on vacation, which is like super rare, but let's say we like stay at an Airbnb or even in a hotel. Yeah. And how different that can be when there's like less stuff. Yeah. Or it's like not mine. Uh-huh. Where I'm like, see, I can be minimal. Like, I can have a system. But then I go back to my house and I'm like, literally, I was trying to grab a pot today, and our pot like cupboard drawers like Jenga, like trying to like get because also none of it matches. It doesn't, it's not designed to fit in there. I think some of these are designed to be like hanging because they're so big. And then the lids don't have a place. And it's like Jenga trying to put them all back in there because I got the one pot I needed. And I'm done. Like, get close the door, can't. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:54

Oh. And now I'm in the phase where you add a toddler into the mix and he just like finds some like you know, treasure trove of stuff and just dumps it all out everywhere. So it's like this system, if you can call it a system, times a million.

SPEAKER_01 13:11

And it makes like you lose something. There's like unmatched stuff now. Like especially with like kids' toys and organization.

Messy Cars Old Houses Real Life

SPEAKER_03 13:19

Yeah. Yeah. So spring is in the air, spring cleaning, decluttering. But you know. It does bring up a whole it brings up a lot of like who am I really underneath all of this? I'm not that organized mom.

SPEAKER_01 13:36

And like, should we be? Is that what should we we should be striving? Like, will will I feel better? Yeah. If I become that person. Like we're really close if I let you see our basement.

SPEAKER_03 13:50

It's scary down there.

SPEAKER_01 13:52

The piles. Oh yeah. My car. When I get into other people's cars and it's like clean, like there's not my car's so bad. The car seats, I bet. Oh, I don't even know the last time I cleaned it. It doesn't we don't clean our car seats. I am sorry.

SPEAKER_03 14:12

I've never I vacuum it, but I've never cleaned it.

SPEAKER_01 14:15

Well, I don't even remember the last time I vacuumed it. Like, whatever. That's not me sitting in there. Yeah.

unknown 14:21

I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 14:23

Like, I just can't. And so people are like, Do you want to drive or do you want me to drive? And like, you're driving. And it has nothing to do with my driving skills. It has everything to do with I You seeing my car. Don't know. Yeah, you don't need to be in my car. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Phil will be like, what the heck happened in here? I'm like, how many days a week do you drive with all the kids in here? All three of them. Yeah. Never. But that isn't, I didn't do that. But when we like are done driving and we get out of the car, I am sorry, but like I have all this stuff to carry in, kids to get inside or whatever. I am not gonna stop and somehow like clean out the Cheetos they dumped on the floor, or I don't know, half eaten whatever. Half the time the dog's getting into stuff in the back. I'm like, I have no idea what he's eating right now. Well, that's great. You have a dog. He could just clean the car for you. Yeah. And he'll like lick the wrappers clean. Again, no clue what he's eating. Could be chocolate. Who knows? So far, he's been fine. He's okay.

SPEAKER_03 15:26

I generally just don't do like the fire Cheetos.

SPEAKER_01 15:30

No, we don't. Thankfully, they don't like those. And I have just like a blanket statement rule of like no grapes or raisins because I know that he can get really sick with that. Everything else. Good luck, buddy. Yeah. So your basement is my car. Yeah. If you get like, if you are in my car and I'm like, sure, I'll drive. That's when you know. You're in my inner circle.

SPEAKER_03 15:55

Yep. Uh-huh. Well, it's still it's spring here, but there's like a ton of snow. There's a layer of ice out on the lake. So anyone listening in other places, you're lucky that you're probably seeing flowers in Bloom already.

SPEAKER_01 16:09

Oh yeah, we're so far from that. Yeah. Like it snowed yesterday.

unknown 16:14

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:14

It's like snowed yesterday.

Losing Preferred Parent Status

SPEAKER_03 16:16

Yeah. Other updates. I officially am no longer the preferred parent in our house. Oh. That's been wild. I was not ready for that. I just like left the room one night in full rejection, sobbing. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 16:33

It's like so different. It's like you knew it's so dramatic. You know, like if you got to choose, like I'm gonna hand this crown of default parent, preferred parent to somebody else because I want to move on, different. But when the child chooses, I'll done mama. Yeah. Oh. Yeah, you're like, excuse me, what do you mean?

SPEAKER_03 16:53

And then I got over myself and was like, no, this is great. I'm so happy he has a very secure attachment to me that he can do that and to his papa, and he can he like wants that papa time. That's great. And so now I've really readjusted. I still don't know what to do with myself at night. Yeah. I need to recognize that I'm having a rough transition with that and not be mean to myself that I'm just sitting on my phone scrolling and listening to bedtime upstairs.

SPEAKER_01 17:21

And that right. You can do that. I'll get to that book. I think sometimes too, like you do have to have mental energy to like get into a book. Yes, you do.

SPEAKER_03 17:32

That's another recognition. Like, there's no mental energy in the evening.

SPEAKER_01 17:35

No, and like you're still transitioning into whatever this new bedtime thing is for you. Yeah. And our house is so small you can't not hear anything.

IEP Planning And Fifth Grade Crash

SPEAKER_03 17:43

Yeah. So let's check in about our subject for today. Yeah. You were sharing a little bit of updates on your Instagram stories about how things have been going. And I thought our listeners might love to hear more from you about how things are with Lena.

Homeschooling Paperwork Pace And Pressure

SPEAKER_01 18:04

Yeah. So we talked about Lena maybe a handful of episodes ago and just related to her story and path to diagnoses and some of the things related to like dealing with the schools and IEPs and kind of advocating for your kids. And that's obviously an ongoing saga because she's school age. So she's in fifth grade, and every school year has been different. And every school year, we like take what we've learned and what's going on that year and previous years, and then try to look forward to the next year and come up with an IEP plan that is goal-oriented towards that following year to because I I wanted to like it's very hard to like make changes in the short term. There's a lot that has to change, and it's so hard to make changes on like a formal plan that it was easier for all of us to like do something that would kind of be enacted the year later. Because it it most of the time we never even met until like maybe January of the school year to meet about her IEP. Um so fourth grade, springtime, we had met, talked about how things were going that year, and then made a plan for fifth grade. Knowing what we know about fifth grade, they have to switch classes. They switch with their cohort so they don't have different kids in their class, but they move classrooms to different teachers. So then she has a handful of different teachers instead of one classroom and one teacher. So we planned for that. Transition times were still tricky. So we built in some support with special ed check-ins at those transition times. I made some work changes to try to have consistent before and after school plans instead of bouncing around because that was really tricky. She would forget what day it was and then forget if she was pickup or kid's own. And I can see how that's stressful because half the time I'm like, wait, what day is it? Like, what do I have going on? So as a kid who doesn't do well with transitions, I can see why that was tough for her. So we did all this stuff. We get to fifth grade and it like blew up in our face. And it was like the toughest year yet. And I was so frustrated because we did all this work and planning and I thought we had it figured out and literally remember telling myself, like, this is my year. All my kids are gonna be at the same school. Because our youngest had part-time preschool at their same elementary school. Oh, yeah. And I was like, finally, my life's gonna be easy. We have one school calendar. We have, we can all do wraparound care. I'm gonna get to work. Just kidding, because it things kind of blew up. And she had asked to be homeschooled because she was just like so done. She couldn't get to school, she couldn't sleep, she couldn't stay asleep, she couldn't sleep without me. She couldn't like get food for herself. She couldn't think about like what to eat. She needed help to get ready. She needed to be right next to me. She needed to know if I was leaving the room, like where I was going in the house. If I went outside to like play with a dog in our yard, she would like come bolting out of the house, running around, like yelling my name, like panicked that I somehow was gone. If I like talked in the hallway, like we were, I was following her to go help her with something, and I just spoke in a normal voice. She would like like startle reflex, like jump because I just talked and she wasn't expecting it. Nightmares, like just so much stuff. So dysregulated and like needing you to co regulate 100% all the time. Yeah. No one else could do this. Yeah. Like needing to know the plan, reiterate the plan. You know, what if this was having a really hard time even doing things she liked? She does like. Sports, she does like participating in that environment. She likes to hang out with friends and she would like be in a full-blown panic freak out to go. And it used to help her if I was like, hey, I'll be there. And even with me there, she would like be like shaking. Friends that she really likes. She had a hard time even going to their house. So I just felt like we regressed a ton in terms of like where she had been in fourth grade and some of the things that she felt confident doing and being, and she was not there anymore. And I brought things up to the staff, teachers, coaches, you know, oh my gosh, I can't believe I don't see any of that. You know, and I I understand that because she doesn't let you see it. But it's also really hard to be at a place where now I'm trying to convince people that I see things that they don't, and that immediately kind of goes to what are you doing at home? What therapies are you doing? Like making it like somehow we have a dysregulating house and it's like what's happening at home. And I wasn't interested in entertaining that. And I already felt like we did as much as we could with her IEP. And this is the last year she's gonna be at the school. So any amount of work I put into this IEP, I don't even know what we were gonna get out of it because it's gonna have, you know. And I kind of just couldn't put more energy into that situation. So we I did pull her and ended her IEP and we homeschooled all through the fall and winter. And that was a huge change because I had to like figure out what curriculum we were gonna do, and we open enroll in her district, and so I had to communicate with our resident district that were homeschooling and fill out all this paperwork, and I had to determine the like testing that she was gonna do because that you still have to test every year. There was just so much background work that got put in my lap when I made that decision, and it was me doing it. My husband just kind of looked at me and was like, whatever you think, because you're gonna be the one doing it. He's like, You can tell me what to do and I can help. But like it was me every single day. He helped one half day a week. And then trying to figure out the pacing for her because she was so burnt out that I was like, I don't even know what's appropriate to expect. And so we took some time and just dabbled and kind of had more fun with it. She liked being able to use a computer and do things on the couch and eat snacks while she was doing school. And so we just tried to really reduce the pressure. And we had no timeline. I had no idea what it was gonna look like. During that time, we also met with her doctor because things were just like kind of getting scary in terms of how dysregulated she was and she like wasn't sleeping and feeling like we need some more support. And that's tricky because again, I'm trying to have these conversations about like here's what we're seeing. And then we have Lena with us in the room, who's just like looking like a typical kid, answering questions, talking about sports, and it's like they have to really trust that what I'm telling them is real. They have to really value your insight as like, yeah, like I'm not, I'm not exact. Why would I exaggerate? Like, why would I be here doing this? But I still sort of felt like this deep down urge that I was trying, I have to convince everyone that it's as bad as I'm saying it is.

SPEAKER_03 25:21

Oof, that sounds really hard.

Understanding AuDHD Masking And Burnout

SPEAKER_01 25:23

She listened, our provider did. Good. And of course, then I had to I'd done a bunch of research research on my own beforehand about like what am I looking for in terms of medical support and trying to decide like in terms of her Aud diagnosis, like what should we treat first? And what do I Can you break that down really quick for sure listeners? So she's diagnosed with being autistic and ADHD. And so ADHD. Yeah, AUDHD. This, these diagnoses look different in girls, especially when they are high masking. So she doesn't let a lot of these things surface, or when they do, she's sort of learned like how to have maybe some of her stimming or things still be like kind of socially appropriate, maybe, or like knows where to let some of this stuff out, or so not everyone sees the stuff that I see.

SPEAKER_03 26:21

So when she was in an environment where she had to hold it together so much and mask so much, like it's that's with school, you were seeing her come apart way more at home because of how dysregulating that must be for anyone to have to hold it together all day like that. Yeah. And then feel it all at home.

Medication Choices Appetite And Anxiety

SPEAKER_01 26:41

Yeah. Yeah. Like the aggression was wild. Like beginning of the school year, she like threw a chair across the room because we were talking about math homework. Like talking about doing it, not even doing it, but like through a chair and like throwing stuff. The amount of like like relationships like with her siblings were so tough. Like I didn't really trust her to be around them, which is like hard to say. And like the amount of energy I was putting towards her was now being pulled away from everybody else. And everything was about her, and everything was about getting her to be okay to go to school. So everything was revolvering around school. And like, what was the outcome of that? Maybe below the bubble grades at best, maybe friendships, but we weren't even sure if they were really friendships because it's like people she sees at school, and I don't even know if her insight as to like how these friendships are is like necessarily the same. Like, I don't know if it's matched all the time. It's so hard because it's like two different worlds. And when we have autistic traits and the dysregulation from in her nervous system that comes from being autistic in a neurotypical world and being high masking and like trying to like keep that lid on that the whole time, and then having an ADHD brain and trying to be in school and not have any like medication support for that. It was very eye-opening when we started homeschooling, and I actually saw her kind of through an entire school day of like, what was her endurance like? Like, how much time can we actually focus on one subject? What do we have to do to get through a subject? Our subjects took us about 20 minutes to get through the whole planned curriculum without modifying anything. And it was a combo of visual stuff, some notebook stuff, some computer stuff. It was very interactive. And sometimes our limit was between five and eight minutes, and she was already done. And this was with me sitting next to her and redirecting her. And how long are class periods? The oh, I don't know. Maybe like 50 minutes. It might be a little less because they also have some specialists in there and they still have recess in fifth grade. Okay. So but still just thinking about oh, yeah. So as soon as I saw time difference. And then I thought about like a classroom environment, she didn't have anybody sitting next to her. She didn't have parasupport. She didn't qualify for any ex academic support because she tested support of any kind. She tested, okay, she didn't qualify for that. The only reason she qualified for an IEP was because of her medical diagnoses of being autistic. So as soon as we started doing this school stuff, I was like, oh my gosh. I had already been thinking about medication support because of just like how intense everything had gotten. Yeah. But I wasn't sure where to start because I wasn't sure if it was like high, high anxiety that was like the root of some of this stuff. And if we eased that and helped ease her nervous system, would her focus return? Would, you know, some of the, would she have more brain, if she slept better because she wasn't as anxious, would her brain have more capacity for learning and being in that school environment or just doing school at home? Or is the ADHD aspect of her brain ping-ponging all the time and everything being really loud and like not really being able to focus on anything and not being able to follow through and feeling a lot of shame and guilt about like not being good at stuff, or whether it's like good at house stuff or being able to make a snack for herself or finish what she's doing, getting ready during the day, or not being as forgetful, like, is all that dysregulating and driving up her anxiety and making her really shut down? And then her nervous system getting so stressed that, like, that's part, you know what it like, what is what when I'm looking at her and we're in this situation, and school's kind of asking me, like, what should we do? We don't see any of this. What do you want us to do during the day? And I'm like, I don't freaking know. Because I don't know what this is. Like, it's a mix. I don't know if you can fully separate them apart for her. And it's not like she can tell you. No, she's better than what it was when she was like in second and third grade. Yeah. But I think they are she's still a kid. Yeah. Like she just knows she doesn't like how she feels. Yeah. So I chose to pursue ADHD medication first. Okay. Because I was like, we have to start somewhere. The stimulant medications, we can notice an immediate change, like the same day you take it. And I felt like that was an easier place to start to learn versus anxiety meds that might take six weeks before we even adjust a dose. Yep. And you were already in such a long term situation.

SPEAKER_03 31:55

You needed some kind of more support.

Co-Regulation Nights Sleeping In Her Room

Back To School With Supports

SPEAKER_01 31:58

Yep. And she felt the intensity was a little a little bit less when we were not at school anymore. Okay. Like I felt we were safer. I felt that she what felt like heard and kind of taken care of and there was less pressure. So I felt like we could sort of wait and see about the anxiety meds or any other mental health support. And but I wanted to start with ADHD meds. And we did, but she was already really low in terms of her percentile for like BMI or like body weight, to the point where the doctor was like, we can try a stimulant medication. I think that I mean, like standard wise, that's the most common place to start, but it's an appetite suppressant, and she's already having executive dysfunction associated with being able to like be independent with some of that stuff. I had to like help her pick it out. I had to help her, you know, just adding an appetite suppressant. She was like, it may not be a long-term thing, but let's start there. And she was right. We, I became the food police. I was like chasing her around with protein shakes and any kind of snack she would want. Like because she just wasn't hungry. Or she would like, you know, normally maybe she would eat two pieces of pizza. She would eat a third of a piece and was like, I'm full. And she wasn't lying. She just like didn't have an appetite. And so I think we did like a month of that, and then we had to change it. And we did a non-stimulant medication, which they work a little differently. They take a little longer to build up in your system. And around that time, we did also add in an anxiety med too. During this process, I also just fully leaned into her being home and to supporting her every way I could. So I stopped sleeping in my own room and put a mattress in her room and slept in her room with her every night from her bedtime through the night, I think for like three months. Wow, Kirsten. Because it was like I was sleepless by getting up five times a night because she kept waking me up. Yep. And staying awake in her bed until she fell asleep so that I could leave and go back to my bed. And then sleeping lightly because you're like, I bet they're gonna wake up again. No one was winning. And for her to just see that like I believed her and that that was an appropriate need for me to just be with her and to not make her feel bad about okay, stay in your bed. Like to just like not even have to talk about it. Just this is where I'm gonna be. You're good. Good night. She didn't care if I left like a reading light on so I could read. She like, she was like, Yeah, as long as you're in here, I do what you want to do. So I did. I just was there and then it got to be like super cold. And her our house is old, her room's not very well insulated, and I was like frozen one night and was like, I'm just gonna go sleep in my own bed because it's warmer in there. And if she wakes up and needs me to come back, I will. But she didn't. Oh. And she like didn't really say anything, but she kind of knew I wasn't in there. Yeah. And I was like, we're just gonna see how this goes. So I would still put her to bed. Yeah. But then I'd get out of bed and like go shower or go back downstairs. And she like didn't wake up to come find me. And that was like a good 10 to 12 weeks of medication and all these other homeschooling changes. And I think her nervous system just had time to kind of come back to some sort of center where sleep was not impacted like it was, because sleep wasn't the original issue. It was like a symptom of where she was at. Yeah. But we had made all these changes at the same time that we had added some medication, which didn't fully help my conundrum of what are we dealing with here? I think we were just dealing with collective burnout, and all the things helped. So we are still on a non-stimulant med. We're still on anxiety meds, but she asked to go back to school in January. Yeah, she did. She did. We always kept it open-ended. We never had a plan. And we kind of told her, we're just gonna figure this out as we go. I've never done this, you've never done this, I don't know. But you can do school a million different ways, and it doesn't have to look the same as everybody else, and you can always go back. And I'm like, honestly, you probably aren't even missing that much, right? Like, whatever. Yeah. But she did. She asked, she was pretty persistent about it. We made up a plan together, and we also started seeing a therapist during this time. She had seen someone else before, but it wasn't a new thing. That's right. So we found a new one. So we had a lot of supports both like medically with therapist. She knew that we believed her and she knew that we would like change what we were doing if she needed it. Yeah. Which I think probably was the key. Yeah, like she just knew that we saw that she wasn't feeling great. Yeah. And that's what I was saying.

SPEAKER_03 37:04

And that you weren't gonna keep forcing her. No. There's this whole like drowning child thing I've read about where like a parent who actually looks at their kid and can see that they're drowning and doesn't shout, just s swim harder. Yeah. Right? Like the school was saying she just needs to swim harder. Totally. Right. But you actually saw, like, no, my kid is drowning. And if I don't pull her out, like who will? Yeah. And so you actually believed her. And I think to me, that's that was the turning point hearing your story.

SPEAKER_01 37:38

But yeah. And I it was eye-opening for us too, just to see how dramatic of a change in her by making these changes and just following her lead. Like she really needed someone with her at night. Yeah. And then we fought, I mean, we fought it the entire beginning of the school year, like two to three months. We were like, go back in your bed. Yeah. I'll put you to bed, but then I'm gonna go back in my bed. Like, I know you can do it, right? It wasn't working. And when we listened, and she was like, Can you just stay in here? Sure. To the point of here's a mattress and I will be in here. And all of a sudden it was like, she was great, right? Or like she just needed to be home and be with me. She came with me to work when I had to go to work sometimes. She was with me, you know, she would run errands with me. She was better. And I think it's just one of those moments where I realized I was still sort of expecting, like, I don't know, like me to be able to tell her that she was good, this like kind of paternalistic way of parenting, or even like for me to learn, like me looking on the outside of like, what am I supposed to be doing with my child? Right. And these milestones of like sleeping independently, right, going to public school, here's what you should be able to do. Yep. And when I just stopped looking at that and I was like, we'll just do whatever. Yeah. And we just did whatever. We thought all that out the window. And it worked. And I was like, okay. What parenting book, what online influencer, what, you know, is like, here's what you should do. Pull a bed into your 11-year-old kid's room and just sleep with them. I've never seen that online. Nope. And so it was like this weird kind of like secretive thing of like, we felt like in the hard moments, like, are we just giving in? And anytime I've fought I've felt that way, other really supportive moms, thank you, moms out there, are like, no, you're not giving in. You're just meeting your child where they're at. You are just changing course when you were met with new information and you're trusting your kid. Yes. And actually, the giving in is an outdated mentality.

SPEAKER_03 39:53

It's not helpful. No.

SPEAKER_01 39:54

It's not just at any age of development. Yeah. And for me, it may we're like fighting the reality of what we're seeing with our child.

SPEAKER_03 40:03

You can't just set these boundaries or expectations and be like, well, you have to meet these when you can see that her brain isn't working that way to actually meet those expectations. Like you have to move the markers and adjust to where she's actually at. And that's so great you had support and other moms saying, Who get it? Like, no, you're not, like, this isn't regressing or whatever these like weird, you know, labels might say about it. Like, this is actually meeting your kid where they're at. Right. And that's where she was at, literally. She was telling you her needs.

Med Shortage Travel Meltdowns And Relief

SPEAKER_01 40:38

Yep. So she's been back at school. We're still on meds. We ran out of meds. The pharmacy ran out of meds to clarify. No. And they were out. We were med-free on the ADHD front for like five days, and holy moly. Right? So this med, it like builds up in your system. And the doctor was like, if she's out for a little bit, it's okay because it kind of builds up in her brain. And it's not going to be as dramatic as like if you ran out and didn't take the stimulant version. I'm just here to say. Is that not true? I don't know. I think maybe like her metabolism for the med, you know, like, does it mean we need to up the dose? I don't know. But the vocal stimming, the impulsivity, the emotional dysregulation. Hmm. Like, and we were traveling for this out of state baseball tournament, and we're like interacting with other people and other kids. And we have like a schedule that doesn't really revolve around her. It revolves around the time of these games and like nothing is normal and routine. And then icing on the cake. We have a kiddo who like doesn't transition well, needs a plan, needs to like have the plan reiterated, like like has expectations, and it's really hard to like be flexible if those expectations aren't met. We go to this hotel, it we get there late at night, we have games right away the next morning. Turns out this hotel doesn't have continental breakfast, doesn't have a pool, and we're 15 minutes away from the game complex. And she looks at me and she's like, they like make hotels without breakfast and a pool. Yeah. Like, how does a hotel? That's not okay. Yeah. So now I have this like unmedicated kid who's like super stuck, and I can like see her almost like gonna lose it. And I'm like, it's gonna be okay. We'll find another pool. I'm sure there's other families who are at a different hotel looking at Phil, he's like, Yeah, I think I think so-and-so is at a different hotel. I bet we'll be able to switch, you know, like because I'm like, we gotta wrap, like, this isn't good. We don't have the capacity nor the time to like sit with however long this is gonna go. So the meds work.

SPEAKER_03 42:57

Yeah, so in many ways, that was eye-opening, how well they're working.

SPEAKER_01 43:02

We made it through. Yeah, they did on like Tuesday. So we started taking them again midweek. Immediate change. So we didn't medicate for a handful of reasons for a long time. And I'm not gonna allow myself to kind of go back and say I regret not medicating sooner because I was still learning about my child. And I don't think I was at a point at then where I knew as much as I did about her and how Audi HD kind of presents with her. And so it's okay with me that we didn't medicate up until this point. And I'm so glad we are using medication now. Because being back in that place of being unmedicated, at least with ADHD, and how dysregulated I am when she's like that, and seeing like how she's struggling and knowing that it's like a brain. Thing and that, like, no matter what I say, or like how I remind her, or it's not the same as having a brain that can engage in our world the same way. So I just feel good about medicating now, but I do understand that there is a journey to get there. And that it's okay if you don't feel like you're there yet. But I do just want to say that I know at one point I probably said something like judgmental about medication, especially for young kids. Sure. Or somehow thinking that if they were, you know, well rested and if they had lots of time to play and they weren't on screens or things about their diet. Like honestly, I'm probably eating crow so much right now, associated with all the things that I might have said previously. And I do just understand that it's sort of a journey. And honestly, you just don't know until you you learn. Sometimes you just have to learn the hard way. I just don't want to look back and see the moments where my child was really struggling and feel like I withheld a really needed part of treatment for her. Yeah. Because I was stuck on something. So I'm really glad that I moved through this process to the point where I was happily considering medication because viewing her over this last weekend unmedicated, seeing her having such a hard time engaging in our world because she's unmedicated was such a good reminder that like this isn't about me. It's not about what I think, or somehow this judgment. Like she is thriving in part because of the medication she's on.

SPEAKER_04 45:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:46

And I think that's a hundred percent great. And I just can't let myself look too far back to some of the other hard moments we've had and wonder was I creating more suffering because I didn't choose to medicate then? But you didn't know. I didn't know.

Recovery Praise And What It Cost

SPEAKER_03 46:01

And yeah, I mean, that's the whole thing about a journey with medication. We're all at different places with it for ourselves. And especially with a neurodivergent child, there's just so many things you have to go through to understand like your fears and concerns and judgments and opinions and biases, and like there's just so much to wade through. Yeah. And I really appreciate that you shared the journey that you've been on with her because hopefully there's a lot of moms out there who can just hear this and and know, like that it can just resonate that like even if you don't have a neurodivergent child, but just that like if you're struggling at some point with your kid through something, like you're gonna try a lot of different approaches and like look back and not always like, were they gonna be the right approach? And you're gonna feel bad about that or have some guilt or whatever. But like really what I hear in your whole story is that you just kept refining and centering your kid. Yeah. And going back to what are her needs, it's not about your what you're carrying on the other side of it, like you're really centering her. And that's beautiful, yeah. And selfless, and like you're an amazing mom, Kirsten. Truly, like you're an amazing mom. Okay, now we're gonna hug. You just like you sacrificed so much this past year, like witnessing you go through this. Yeah. And it was all out of like pure love for Lena. It was a really hard year. Like, I can't even imagine just all the different things that you had to sacrifice. I still feel like I'm recovering.

SPEAKER_01 48:00

Yeah. Because I was so on for so long, like constantly and sort of wondering, like, are we at the bottom?

SPEAKER_03 48:09

Uh-huh. Is this gonna get worse? Uh-huh. Like, yeah, where's the bottom? That is always the question when going through something like that.

SPEAKER_01 48:17

So intense. And then it was just me. Like, I was the one figuring it out. Yes. Like, still have to work trying to figure out, like, there's so many things. And it was me. And so, like, I'm so relieved in so many ways. Like, I'm so glad she's back at school because she wanted to be there. Yeah. So you didn't have to force it.

SPEAKER_03 48:40

No, no. But also, like, you got a break. I know you needed that.

SPEAKER_01 48:44

To have to have her be comfortable with like physical space where, like, if I need to leave, she doesn't usually get too upset about it. Like, to not be needed that intensely is like, I feel so I feel relieved that I don't currently have to like determine her academics. Yeah, that's a lot of pressure. That could be another episode. It could be. It was a lot, but I just appreciate you saying that because I do feel like deeply that I know I'm a good mom. Yeah. But it just hits different when someone else says that, especially like a mom that I respect. And it was, it has been a really hard year. And I don't stop to like think about it. Yeah. You just are like, what are we doing? Let's keep going. Just gotta keep going every day. But to actually like say a lot of it in like one sitting and to reflect on it and to say, like, oh my gosh. Yeah. There it was so dark. And we were just like in our own world, you know, everyone's going, doing their stuff, and like here we are, we can't even do basic things. Like it felt like if I could have just like put her in like an ergo backpack.

SPEAKER_03 50:05

Yeah. Like kids. That's what she needed, right? If she had been smaller, you would have done it. She needed a koala all over you. Yeah. But like so you you found other ways to do that. But like, thank you so much for sharing like the depth of the story, and not just like there were parts where I noticed like you were just trying to kind of like get it out, you know, but like to actually have you get grounded and release some tears about it is like an honor for me, but also I think, you know, for everyone listening, just like to know the heart behind this story and what you've been through. Thanks.

SPEAKER_01 50:51

Thanks for listening. We hope you feel seen. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with other mamas. Subscribing to our podcast and leaving us a review is one of the best ways for other people to find us. So if you enjoy what you are hearing or if it resonates with you, please subscribe and leave us a review. It would mean a lot. You can find me, Kirsten, at empowerortho and public health.com, or on Instagram at Kirsten Demoray DPT.

SPEAKER_02 51:27

And you can find me, Molly, through my music, Sister Vary, on Bandcamp or other streaming platforms. You can find me at my clinical practice in Duluth, Minnesota, at InsightCounseling. You can follow us on Instagram at Mama You Belong, send us a DM, or email us at MamaUBelong at gmail.com if you'd like to ask us any questions, provide feedback, ideas, or just to connect. Special thanks to my husband Chad Hilgenberg for providing the banjo music for our show. We will see you next time.