Ten Years of Jurassic Fandom with Steven Ray Morris (See Jurassic Right)

Steven Ray Morris has spent ten years hosting See Jurassic Right — one of the longest-running Jurassic podcasts around. In this episode he joins me to talk about what keeps a fandom alive, his own journey into podcasting, and his hottest Jurassic takes.

We swap series rankings, debate what Gareth Edwards brings to the franchise, and Steven shares some of the best fan stories he has collected over a decade of conversations.

Find Steven and See Jurassic Right on Apple Podcasts | @stevenraymorris | @seejurassicright

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:01

Hello and welcome back to Road to Rebirth. My name's Roland Squire. And today's guest is someone who I think I can probably call a Jurassic franchise ambassador. You know him from the podcast See Jurassic Right. Uh, his work within the podcasting world with my favorite murder, the purcast, and more. Please welcome Stephen Ray Morris to the show.

SPEAKER_00 0:26

I don't know why I'm applauding. Can I just say off the bat that you have the coolest name ever, Roland Squire. Like that is like that sounds like a I mean, I guess the guitar, you know, but ugh.

SPEAKER_02 0:38

I do actually play guitar as well. And so when I used to have to go in and buy musical instruments, it was yeah, like sorry, you've you've got the wrong, you've got the wrong name.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

Yeah. You have it personalized, you have your own personalized guitar, basically. Uh thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_02 0:52

Um yeah, I'm I'm a huge fan of uh C Jurassic Wright. I just love the mixing of fandom and community and ev everything. It's not just about Jurassic Park, it's about a whole host of other things. Um but what I'd love to chat today about is your excitement for rebirth, really. So what what what scale? Are you are you are you at a 10 yet?

SPEAKER_00 1:18

Yeah, I I think so. It's interesting, and I'm curious of your your position on it as well, because the fingers are coming up. I'm counting off a list. Uh no, but but you know, I think like a lot of people, I think around our age, like Jurassic Park made such a huge impact. And it was like, are you gonna become a paleontologist or a filmmaker? You know, what it's are you gonna become a scientist or are you gonna get into creativity? And I obviously went down the creative path, but get to enjoy my passion for dinosaurs and everything doing see Jurassic Right. But when I got older, Lost in Translation, which stars Scarlett Johansson, was the movie that as a teenager was like, okay, I liked movies and stuff when I was a kid. I love Jurassic Park. Here's like a grown-up movie. I mean, it is a grown-up movie. Um, I don't know why I'm putting it in air quotes, but that that was like that solidified me wanting to go to film school and kind of set me on the path that I am now. And so, like, the fact that one of our greatest living actors who kicked me off into wanting to actually commit to this like creative path in in the franchise of like basically the most important movie of my life. So the fact that those two things were mixing together, I mean, it still really hasn't quite hit me. I think that this is happening. And then combined with the fact that I love Rogue One and I love Gareth's melancholy sci-fi aesthetic, it just feels like going into this movie, it it's it's like for me in a we in a weird way. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:03

Like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:05

And so again, yeah, I'm curious your thought about because the marketing itself for the movie almost is just whatever it is, it's exciting, but it but I was already hooked in before any of that stuff, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:17

Yeah, and I mean for so for me, the second they announced it and that it was David Kepp coming back, and that it we'd have to wait well just over a year to see it, I was like, oh my god, that's I can't believe it. The the David Leach stuff made me go take a sure deep in in in breath at one moment, and then suddenly Gareth Edwards came on, and I was like, I can't believe this is getting this is just getting better and better and better, the people that are involved with it.

SPEAKER_00 3:47

Yeah, well, and yeah, I think the strategy I've talked about on my podcast. I think the strategy for Universal is that they really want everyone to love Jurassic Park again in a way that might be truer to the original Jurassic Park, as far as the getting Gareth's melancholy sci-fi, like getting this that sublime part more checked off rather than, you know, and I and I do love the Jurassic World movies. I think there was more they became more about almost I don't know, it's it's the Crichton aspects of Fallen Kingdom in Dominion, I think were very underappreciated. So I I I'm also somebody where I I don't want people to forget about those movies, and I actually think that if anything, maybe Rebirth sort of going back to basics will make people appreciate the ambition of those movies you know, years down the line. I don't know. I mean, is that uh resonating with you at all?

SPEAKER_02 4:48

Yeah, I think so. And it's the same with so many franchises, they speak to the time that they're in. Yeah. And um, so when uh the Jurassic World films came along, they were in the universe of when I first sat down, I was expecting, I think for Jurassic World, uh a film that was never gonna happen. Yeah that you know, too much time had passed for me to think that Jurassic Park 4 would be uh the the the same as Jurassic Park 3 and The Lost World. You know, we had the Marvel films, that is that's what they were coming into, and they needed to hit big, otherwise it doesn't exist. Um and I think the success of those films has just allowed Rebirth, hopefully, to be a little bit more experimental and go, we think that this film will make money. So let's just try let's just try something.

SPEAKER_00 5:40

Yeah, I mean it's pretty unprecedented for a movie to be fast-tracked in this way where the sort of surrounding ecosystem around it isn't quite ready, which actually it's it feels not dangerous because it's you know it's a huge studio and all millions of dollars are being put into it, but but it doesn't feel like by the book. Like we're just gonna oh, we really like this idea, let's just throw it out there.

SPEAKER_01 6:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:05

And I am curious. Do you see it? Have you seen Alien Romulus?

SPEAKER_02 6:10

I haven't, no.

SPEAKER_00 6:10

Oh, okay. Well, so I won't I won't spoil anything, I won't say anything, but Brian Fennessey of the Big Picture talked about how last year was the emergence of the no homework sequel. Oh, like Twisters and Alien Romulus.

SPEAKER_01 6:26

Where's such a good, yeah, right?

SPEAKER_00 6:28

Like it's such a great way to think about it because it's really disheartening to see people be like, I don't want to watch this because I have to catch up with X, Y, and Z. It the studios, by making everything the Marvel and so interconnected, it kind of was starting to put a lot of pressure on audiences to keep up. And I think we're seeing a healthy readjustment. And I think Twisters and Romulus were really great examples of carrying on the legacy of their franchises. Obviously, Twisters is a lot smaller, but Alien Romulus was something that I initially didn't like. It didn't wow me initially, but the more I watched it, the more I appreciated like how you're saying that maybe Rebirth gets to be smaller, gets to be a little bit more experimental, doesn't have to be no the globetrotting fast and the furious, like you know, giant CGI ring in the sky. Like it doesn't have to do all of that. It can, it can be, it can be smaller.

SPEAKER_02 7:28

Yeah, and I think audiences, I think they're you know, studio heads and everything are susceptible to what critics say, um, and they can't just keep shoving stuff out that with costs a lot of money, you know, go, oh, just give more spectacle, more of that, and people will people will come and watch it, and they're like, maybe they don't come and watch it all, you know, and I think they're just like, okay, we need to go back to the basics, let's go back to script and character.

SPEAKER_00 7:52

Yeah. I think it should be a fun challenge because I recently watched Gareth Edwards Godzilla for the first time. Oh, and so I did kind of a weird like I saw monsters, I saw or I saw Rogue One, saw went back to his first film, Monsters, then saw the creator, and then went to Godzilla. So kind of like a but it but I, if anything, his Godzilla makes me really excited for yeah, it was the was the most recent boost to me because the sense of scale and the relationship that that these that like even though they're giant CGI monsters or middle-sized CGI dinosaurs, that there is like a real like weight and artistry to the way that they're portrayed on screen, versus like and personally for me, Jurassic World is my least favorite Jurassic Park movie because I feel like the relationship between the dinosaurs and the humans felt very disconnected, other than the dying apotosaur scene. And and I really want, and even in the trailer, you know, we haven't seen that much of the dinosaurs, but just it doesn't have to be about people touching the dinosaurs, like that's why I love Fallen Kingdom because everyone's touching like these handful of animatronics and they're bleeding and sweating and mucus.

SPEAKER_02 9:18

It's probably my favorite of the world films. Okay, definitely.

SPEAKER_00 9:21

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so, and it but even just the dynamics between the way people are looking at and interacting with the dinosaurs, even though even if they're just CG, I don't know, it already feels a little bit more I don't know, it just it it you know, again, it's that Marvel thing where it s some of them start to feel weightless because nobody's in the same room together. Yeah, you know. Yeah. I mean I think that's yeah, I don't know. It's just I'm I'm curious to I'm I'm so glad that he decided to take this on because like I know he's just like I thought he was too burnt from his experience with Disney.

SPEAKER_02 9:54

Yeah. So I'm just really glad that they've that he's decided to do this. I saw monsters at uh the Prince Charles Cinema when I was at university. Really? Oh, you saw it in theaters. And I was just blown away by the fact that he did this in his bedroom, essentially. Yeah, yeah. On a laptop.

SPEAKER_00 10:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:14

I was just yeah, it's he needs to make films.

SPEAKER_00 10:17

Yeah. Well, it's it's interesting because I, as somebody who used to work in visual effects, like that was kind of the career path that I was sorting started to go on, and then podcasting kind of took over comedy, journalism, whatever, all that stuff kind of led to where I'm now. But I think it's such a he is such a like process guy. And I feel like that to me is what I think you can just tell when people are having fun, you know, unless you obviously there is some and you know, you always hear stories about somebody, you know, um, you know, Julianne Moore doing Lost World because of a paycheck. She had to, you know, she was getting a divorce, so you know, and obviously it's look, I'm very happy when people do stuff no matter if whether it's for a paycheck or not, but I think it it's just endearing to know that that people want to be there. And it hasn't come out yet, but I interviewed Dewanda Wise, uh, who is in Jurassic World Dominion as Kayla Watts, and I think everyone, even people who did not like that movie, loved her in it and thought she was such a standout and literally and just lit up the screen every moment she was she was there. And I think it's because she was really involved in the process and crafting that character, and so yeah, I think it's it's so hard in these giant movies to feel like you have any ownership over any of it. And so again, it is refreshing to see Gareth be like, you know, in the way that it hit those initial interviews when he was announced, where he was kind of like, Oh, I was in between projects, and you know what? What the hell? Why not? Why wouldn't I want to do a Jurassic Park movie? This would be such an honor. I get to play, I get to have fun. And again, I'm sure he probably post-Rogue One has a better idea of how to manage his relationship with the material, you know, and I think that's why even Colin Trevaro, like I like I Battle at Big Rock and Dominion are definitely better directed movies than Jurassic World, even if you know, obviously, like you know, different flavors and everything, but I I could definitely tell that, yeah, it's you can have ownership over material even if you didn't write it. And so I don't know, it's just it's just such an interesting cocktail to be going into this movie.

SPEAKER_02 12:27

I know. And I really like his approach to Godzilla and that like some people say that Godzilla and the characters, like the human characters uh are not very human or they're kind of a little bit too two dimensional, but I really like the fact that Aaron Taylor Johnson's character almost starts to emulate Godzilla by the end of the day. Oh, I didn't think of that. It's there's a there's a there's a uh there's there's an action film from the 60s called The Train. It's one of my favourites with Bert Lancaster, and as the film goes on, he slowly starts to become he stops being human almost and becomes more machine. Yeah. And I think uh he uh Aaron Taylor Johnson's character's uh journey in that film is to try and protect uh um his his family and get back to his family. And uh Godzilla in in in the film is um writing a a wrong that we've done on on Earth against nature, and I feel like that's what Aaron Taylor Johnson is doing. So they're both working towards this uh kind of similar goal to protect something, and that's why I film yeah, that's why it's never really I really like the fact that he starts being less verbal as the film goes on.

SPEAKER_00 13:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:39

And he's just more about action and function and doing.

SPEAKER_00 13:41

Yeah. Well, and to your point, that was something recently Brad Jost from the Jurassic Park Podcast and I talked about that this Godzilla movie. What was sparking that extra excitement for rebirth was the first trailer for Jurassic Rebirth is very fun, it's exciting, but personally it was very kind of just a lot of tropes. It was like, it's all the kind of one-liners and all that stuff, which is very fun, but it didn't get me more excited for the film because it felt very it was that thing of like, oh, we're we're going back to the island, we're sort of retreating from our ambition. But then after seeing Godzilla, and the way that uh Gareth Edwards is able to sort of craft these like splashes of character for the time that you have them, you have 10 minutes with Brian Cranson or 15 minutes, and you you get a full story. It's it's like the opening of up. And yeah, that made me go like, okay, well, this is just a trailer, and it's and it's showing you the top layer of who these people are. But then, you know, when we're watching the movie, it's like that's just the top. And then through his visual storytelling, you'll get to know what these characters are really like beyond the tropes. That's my hope.

SPEAKER_02 14:55

Yeah, no, I think, and I think I think you're talking about him, you know, doing a process and process-based. I think that's how he approaches the story as well. Um, it kind of like breaking it down into separate elements. Well, here's here's character A, B, and C, and I need these characters. It's almost like he's thinking at the end goal at the first bit where he's where he's doing it. Because uh I suppose his background in doing post-production work, it's like the filming is the bit that gets you to the fun stuff, maybe which is the actual construction of the story and the film and doing that. So, yeah, he he seems really laid back doing this huge film.

SPEAKER_00 15:31

Yeah. Do uh what did you think of the creator?

SPEAKER_02 15:34

Yeah, really enjoyed it. I didn't see that in the cinema.

SPEAKER_00 15:36

I didn't I regret not seeing it, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:38

And again, that's his reaction to Rogue One of it's just like I want to I want to prove that I can do a huge story for half the money that you think that you need to spend on one.

SPEAKER_00 15:48

Yeah, yeah. Well, and also the level of visual storytelling and visual in lore without exposition. Yeah. Even though the supposed confirmed run runtime for rebirth is, you know, it's not the longest, but it's certainly not the shortest. And, you know, it's no JP3, which uh I mean that that runtime though has JP3's runtime has sparked so much joy and in all the space that we get to talk about that movie. But I think the creator for me was a little disappointing, if only just because I it's like it's almost like the visual storytelling is so rich. I wanted I wanted those tropes to ring a little bit more true. I don't know. I I I I've seen it a couple times now. I I again I regret not seeing it in the cinema, but as far as the creator goes in relation to Jurassic World Rebirth, I'm so excited for the way that he will tell the history of this franchise through through that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_02 16:53

Yeah, and it's it is true. It's the um it's the visuals, uh it's um show don't tell. It's saying to your audience that and knowing that your audience is clever and just they will pick up on it, you know.

SPEAKER_00 17:06

A clever girl.

SPEAKER_02 17:07

Yeah. He's also quite reluctant to, you know, apart from the interviews that we've seen that he did on the announcement and more recently with Empire, yeah, he's not he's not somebody on social media. Yeah. He's in fact nobody really in this film is. Nobody's letting stuff out. So it's really in it's a very different experience to when Colin was in charge and giving little hints and photos. Yeah. And so I yeah, you just don't know what to expect when you go in and sit down, which is quite nice, I think.

SPEAKER_00 17:37

Yeah, I mean, yeah, as of this recording, there's no second trailer yet, but we'll see. I mean, yeah, I I I you know, I we were saying a little bit before recording that obviously we are making things and wanting to keep up and all that stuff. I feel like the week before the movie comes out, I kind of like go dark, you know, because I just am right, yeah, because that's when stuff like really starts to come out. And then and I want to try and preserve some of that magic. I think I was very lucky that I had the opportunity to go to the premiere for Dominion and getting to see it, you know, knowing that the cast was in the audience and getting to, you know, be there. I don't know. There's just something really cool about I I I will never not see a Jurassic Park movie as soon as I possibly can. Because that that first week is so special. And so I feel like it's worth the sacrifice sort of yeah, you have to sort of let go a little bit a couple weeks before because yeah, the I mean it's just I'm trying to think of some moment like the the like the final Indominus fight uh against Rexy on Main Street or in Fallen Kingdom, the Macy pushing the button, like those are just great moments that I remember when I saw them.

SPEAKER_02 18:55

Is is through your podcast, is there kind of one store or one fan story? Because you've spoken to so many people that really sticks out with you in your mind as being a a Jurassic, a Jurassic story.

SPEAKER_00 19:07

Oh wow, that's a great question. I mean, I always come back to Chris Pugh from Jurassic Outpost carrying around his red wrecks like it was his pet, you know? And I just thought that was super endearing. I really loved that. And I mean, it's funny because it's like the Jurassic wedding thing, like that is, you know, like people playing the like I I I guarantee you that in like a hundred years when people are thinking about a wedding theme, it's actually gonna be the John Williams Jurassic Park theme song.

SPEAKER_02 19:36

Like it's not gonna be Pack-Aball's canon or whatever, it's gonna be like I have been to a few weddings where that is where that's been played.

SPEAKER_00 19:43

No, same. I mean, it's great. It's I mean, I love hearing the Jurassic Park theme song at a wedding. Who wouldn't? Um, I mean, one of my favorite stories most recently is my friends Mina and Jordy, they got engaged, and it was a Jurassic Park engagement, surprise engagement, where Jordy, who's an improv, uh improv improviser, that's the right word, uh, DD guy. Basically, what he did was he hosted a it was during the 30th anniversary screening of Jurassic Park. So he used that as a way to work with the movie theater, do a 30th anniversary screening. So yeah, Mina is just watching, they're like, Oh, you know, they're just going to like, oh, we're gonna go see the 30th anniversary, you know, a 30th anniversary screening of Jurassic Park. 10 minutes in, Jordy comes out full Hammond outfit. It's during the clone like Mr. DNA sequence, and like all the lights come on, Mina's entire like friends and family, and like everybody is there. And then they basically what what uh Jordy did along with some of uh some of his friends and some folks that I know is that they basically did like instead of how to make a dinosaur, it was basically like tracing their relationship through animation and visual effects, like my friend Meg is a makeup artist and everything. Um some of the corridor digital, the corridor crew, like who they know in LA. So it's basically like, oh, here's all the friends and everything that like brought their relationship together, and then so is the you know, their own Mr. DNA sequence uh with like a Minoosaurus essentially, and then and then when that was over, then he proposed, you know, and it was great.

SPEAKER_02 21:25

Good grief. Yeah, that was that makes me as an English person feel slightly.

SPEAKER_00 21:30

That's that's that's that's quite a lot. Yeah, no, it's it it was amazing. I I wish I could have been there for it. But that that was that was a more recent story that was just a cool way to an amazing story. And I think that's why, again, the podcast after a while. It's funny because I I love what you're doing with this podcast because that's kind of how See Jurassic Rights started, which was the road to Fallen Kingdom for me, was being in this world of podcasting for for a few years at that point. And wanting to like find a way to continue my love of Jurassic because there was a community and a fandom sort of every you know, Jurassic World came out and was like, oh gosh, we're back. Like, you know, we had all taken a break for 14 years after Jurassic Park 3. And so I just wanted to look for a way to express my own love of this franchise and also yeah, hear people's stories.

SPEAKER_02 22:25

When I I I stumbled across the Jurassic Cast podcast, I think probably in 2014. Yeah. And that was the first time I really thought, apart from the JP uh Dan's JP3 page. Yes. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 22:36

We'll have to talk about that for a second. But finish what you were saying.

SPEAKER_02 22:40

I just suddenly thought I heard that podcast, I was like, oh my god, there's other Jurassic Park fans out there.

SPEAKER_00 22:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:46

And yeah, the the Dan's JP3 page was oh my word. I can't even I used to sit in my dad's office and just sit on Jurassic Park, Dan's JP3 page.

SPEAKER_00 22:57

Did you so you were on the forums and everything?

SPEAKER_02 23:00

I was more of a lurker, probably. I was I never I always just I was just desperate for news of Jurassic Park uh Jurassic Part 4, really.

SPEAKER_00 23:07

I was JP Exciter was my username. For Tom Fishenden, I'm calling you out, Tom, beautiful baby boy. Uh, you know, uh Dan's JP3 page was the spot, you know, back in 2000, 2001, just for the new I can like see the the website in my sleep. I yeah, I I I I've I've probably mentioned this before on on C Jurassic Right, but I you know how there's like people have like totems like Inception where it's like the thing that tethers you to reality. Like I have a I have a I have a version of that which is when on the internet when you would play those little 120 by whatever trailers of Jurassic Park 3 clips, like that media page, there was the deleted scene of Ellie in Jurassic Park grabbing the leaf. And so I downlo I downloaded that QuickTime file, and that QuickTime file is on the computer that we're talking on now. Oh like it has become my sort of good luck charm that has passed on from computer to computer as sort of like a I leave it on my desktop as like a yeah, like a good luck charm essentially.

SPEAKER_02 24:15

Yeah, because you'd have to have like you'd have to like dial up internet and then you know, nobody would be allowed on the phone because you were downloading like a two-second clip from yeah, Jurassic Park 3.

SPEAKER_00 24:27

Mob, I'm arguing about uh whether or not the comics are canon, you know, or something.

SPEAKER_02 24:34

Sorry, kids out there listening. This this is what this is what the internet was like.

SPEAKER_00 24:39

But it was, yeah, I mean, it was that, you know, people would share their fan fiction. It was the place to, you know, JP4 rumors, yeah. And talking about again, the the production of JP3 was so troubled and partially online, yeah, because there was clips and the you know, it was and it was that because Jurassic Park and Lost World were essentially pre-internet like internet community, it was like Jurassic Park 3 was was catch-up for all the kids like us, you know, and then like when Jurassic World hit and was a big thing, you know, uh Jurassic Collectibles and Jurassic Outpost, Victoria's Canteen, like pla places like that where it's like everyone again was like, oh gosh, we're we're we're back, you know?

SPEAKER_02 25:31

Yeah. Do do you find yourself now maybe too close to the material of Jurassic? Do you think that you enjoy it in the same way that you did?

SPEAKER_00 25:41

You know, it it it I mean, I think that's unavoidable. I think it's that problem where it, you know, it is funny to complain about something like this, but it is almost Jurassic Park is played so often in theaters that at least here in the US, like it doesn't not that it isn't always magical when I watch it, but it's just one of those things where it's I'm almost taking it for granted now, where it's you know, I probably saw it two or three times in 2023, I saw it last year. Like it I I think if anything, it makes me want to dig deeper. But yeah, I mean it is a thing where it's like I'm watching stuff for content essentially, or you know, I'm researching everything. And I I definitely am in the mood to re-watch all the films in order like to prep for rebirth. Like I don't like what when was the last time you've watched just like sat and watched any of the Jurassic Park films without like taking notes or you know, being like, okay, this is here, I'm watching this for this episode.

SPEAKER_02 26:43

It was it was either last year or the year before in cinema. We had the the 3D. It was just in where where I live, and it was just on on the cinema for one night, and it was two days after my birthday, and it was a packed cinema. And yes, that was the last time I I saw that, and then immediately I'm just like, right, okay, I've got to watch Lost World now, and then it just kind of sparks off that thing.

SPEAKER_00 27:08

No, it's it's I uh most recently for me, one of the most joyous experiences was last year with my buddy Chris Pramonte watching watching The Lost World on the big screen for the first time since 1997. And that was really cool because yeah, they don't show the other movies as much. And and I am personally again, I previously stated that Jurassic, I mean, you know, I love all these movies, but I'm I'm disappointed that that there's not going to be any 10-year anniversary stuff for Jurassic World. I think it's it's weird to me that you can't have a new movie out and still celebrate what came before, you know?

SPEAKER_02 27:47

I know. Yeah. And I think they're missing an audience with that that are not like like like as old as me who saw Jurassic Park, you know, when I was six. There's people who saw Jurassic World when they were six, and it's gonna have as much of an impact on them as Jurassic Park did for me.

SPEAKER_00 28:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:06

No, you're so you're so right. And next year is the 25th anniversary of JP3.

SPEAKER_01 28:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:13

And I think that as far as that film goes, and I don't know if you've noticed it, but it really feels like that film has become maybe the second best Jurassic Park film, like culturally or in the community.

SPEAKER_02 28:26

I think ever like the the sort of Daniel Stephen will be very happy to hear this conversation.

SPEAKER_00 28:31

Yes, yes. Oh my gosh, he will be. Um, I I was joking, but it's it I think it's true. Like we're we're ready to have a Spinosaurus summer. It's gonna be in Walking with Dinosaurs, it's gonna be in Rebirth. Like it is, yeah. I think there, like to your point, there are kids who were because I was 14 when Jurassic Park 3 came out, but I think people who are 10, who are six, now all grown up, like the Spinosaurus was the baddest of the bad, and like other kind of nostalgic figures, like somebody like Jar Jar, for example, which also, you know, got a redemption arc. I think the Spinosaurus is on that uh and then combined with the new science. So I think it's really been like converging that Jurassic Park 3 has become such a delight in the Spinosaurus, is now, yeah, like one of the top megafauna, you know, dinosaurs.

SPEAKER_02 29:25

And I think that I think Jurassic Park 3, um, as much as it was kind of, you know, it stopped the franchise for such a long time, really, or stalled it. Uh I think they were constantly working on, you know, Spielberg never gave it up. But that idea that Jurassic Park it there's much more to talk about with Jurassic Park 3 than I think even with The Lost World or Jurassic Park sometimes, because it's you can talk for hours about what that film could have been. All these the fact that the script was thrown out, Joe Johnson must have just been pulling his hair out. He he went on record saying before the filming started that he asked his agent to take him off the film. I mean, it's wow how could it yeah, it was a it was a film production that played out uh in front of everybody, really.

SPEAKER_00 30:14

Yeah. No, I mean in um the James Motram visual history of Jurassic Park, there is a moment, a great quote. Uh there's like I mean, it's full of Joe Johnson. Like Joe Johnson throws some great quotes in that book. Um, but one of them was like, you know, how's the movie going? And he's like, if I could swim back to the mainland, I would. And you know, as far as it's like, what was the oh I can't I can't get it right now, but just uh there's a great quote and I'll send it to you about the the Jurassic Park 3 title. Like, what well what do you think it's gonna be? Like, you know, just this kind of exasperated, like, uh like just call it Jurassic Park 3. They know they know what they're getting. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:52

Because it was called Extinction for a bit, wasn't it? I think that was the idea, and I thought that's too too much of a downer because we might want to do Jurassic uh part four.

SPEAKER_00 31:00

Yeah, it's always funny. It's always funny when franchises give a a uh yeah, give a final sign off and then go back again. Uh I mean what do you think of the rebirth title? I can't remember if you've if I've heard your thoughts on it.

SPEAKER_02 31:13

Um again, it's probably it's not great. It's not the best. I I think it's I think it's okay. I think it's uh it feels like a bit more of a pleading to the cr to the to the people that aren't the super fans to say, look, come on, please. Look, yeah, we're we we're doing something again. Yeah, rebirth. I'm trying to think if I've heard if that is in any other franchise that I can think of that springs to mind.

SPEAKER_00 31:36

I think uh Jaden NJ Rasic said that Rebirth is like kind of a big video game title.

SPEAKER_02 31:42

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 31:43

Like Final Fantasy Rebirth. And it's used a lot in that. I think I kind of feel the same as you, but I've really come around to it just in the fact that eggs and birth and life finding a way, like it works in that context, you know. So I'm you know, it it is funny that every Jurassic Park movie almost essentially has a different titling methodology. You know, I it would have been I think it would have been icing on the cake if Jurassic World Dominion was Jurassic World 3 Dominion. Yeah, like then they truly would have been seven different naming conventions.

SPEAKER_02 32:19

I wonder whether I wonder whether rebirth is their idea of what's gonna come after this. Like maybe I'm I'm almost anticipating that this film will be quite apocalyptic in its tone towards the end. I think it I am anticipating that whatever is on this island uh is gonna be more dangerous than a than a dinosaur or a mutated dinosaur. I think something else is gonna be there. Uh because just by reading The Lost World and the DX virus, and that moment at the end of the book where they're thinking about the fact that that could uh potentially be spreading across Costa Rica, you know, um and when I spoke to James Lovegrove and our discussion about what Crichton would have done and the idea of a a kind of post-apocalyptic world with dinosaurs in feels quite Crichton-esque. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:15

Yeah, I'm and yeah, curious about your thought. Because it is that weird where dinosaurs were spreading across the world in a vague kind of way at the end of Dominion. This seems like it's retreating, but I almost feel I don't know. It's it marketing is so much about putting you in a certain headspace before you see the movie, but it's not actually what the movie is. And I'm also just extremely curious to how because I think there was a quote saying David Kepp was saying, like, I'm not gonna undo any canon or anything. Like this takes place after Dominion, you know, and but I think there is a lot. I think my biggest preoccupation with the movie in a way that's kind of good, where I'm not actually thinking about the movie itself, so that'll stay sort of mostly pure to me, but it's almost just like, okay, there's another island with dinosaurs. Well, Lockwood, you know, created the first Raspberry Dinosaurs in the manor, but then there was also Isla Sorna, and then when I was re-watching Dominion, all this stuff with um with Charlotte takes place in 1997. Ellie knew Charlotte in 2000. Hammond died, you know, like it it's they've constructed this in enormous web that is just not really necessary for the movies that you're actually watching. But I'm just now, yeah, I'm I I wonder how much of that is those T's, those I's are gonna be dotted and those T's are gonna be crossed, or if it's really gonna be maybe again, like we were saying at the beginning, more of Gareth visual storytelling to like tie all this stuff in together, whether it's like, yeah, getting having a a a Charlotte Lockwood cameo on a video screen or or a um oh my god, Sir James Cromwell and or or or playing some old Richard Attenborough audio from Trespasser and using the best bits, you know. Like that's the I'm I'm kind of glad that I'm thinking about that stuff rather than what is actually gonna happen in the movie. I don't know. What it how are you feeling about all this?

SPEAKER_02 35:11

Yeah, I'd love some I'd love some um love for sauna and maybe just more than a drop line. But I think he's I think he's really from the latest stuff in Empire, I think the idea of the disastrous Rex and um the other mutated uh dinosaurs that are on this island feel from what he's saying that they are Jurassic World era uh creations. So that's what it's because they talk about in there that him and Spielberg had a conversation about the fact that in Jurassic World they wanted to keep making dinosaurs scarier and more vicious, yeah. And some of those experiments would have gone wrong. And that's sort of this is now the dumping ground of w maybe Wu, which changes Wu's character quite a bit in the in there that yeah, well, I mean, yeah, that is interesting.

SPEAKER_00 36:05

I actually hadn't read that part yet about the world. Yeah, so maybe maybe saying this is like where the Jurassic Park, you know, the site of the original Jurassic Park, maybe that it's actually gonna be world in the movie. I think that's just a misdirection.

SPEAKER_02 36:18

Oh well, I think maybe it's an island that was owned by, you know, whatever Masrani took over potentially, and then this was just oh, we've got to put these things somewhere. Let's just let's just shove them on this island that we've got that we've inherited.

SPEAKER_00 36:31

Well, I mean, wasn't that in the oh I can't remember the name of the chaos theorem, like their sort of ARG website work before Jurassic World came out, the notion that like Hoskins cleaned up the pteranodons that flew off at the end of Jurassic Park 3, and that maybe the Spinosaurus itself was an early experiment that led to the end. I mean, that would be really cool if they were because I think you know it was that kind of initial sort of when Gareth was announced, and people thinking that, oh, is is this movie gonna be an interqual interqual between JP3 and Jurassic World? And I I mean, I the reality is that people were just thinking that because Gareth Edwards essentially did something like that before. And and I think our imagination is just like, wow, that would be really cool because that is rich ground to explore, and I think it would be really cool. I mean, and who knows, maybe that maybe you know the shot of the guy in the red, like with the what how do you say disastrous rex rex?

SPEAKER_02 37:34

Yeah, I think that's what it's kind of cool.

SPEAKER_00 37:36

I kind of like distortus rex or distortus yeah, derex. But I I think it's kind of it's it's very metal and in the metal, it's wow, you know. But what if that scene is the scene that takes place between you know uh JP3 and Jurassic World? I think I don't know, it's re-watching Rogue One, it just does such a great job of because I I recently uh as of this recording saw Revenge of the Sith in theaters. And uh you know, back in theaters, I saw it, you know, when I was 18, but like thinking about Rogue One and the way that it, you know, is able to play into both eras that feels really satisfying. Little things like having Gold Leader and Red Leader, like using footage from a new hope in Rogue One. Like that to me is also the exciting part about Rebirth is I think on a marketing level, it's kind of being like, This is the brand new adventure. Like, but I but I yeah, but yeah, I'm I'm hoping that we will get to see nods to every era. I mean, that was was there'll be callbacks, I'm sure. Yeah, I mean, and that's what's having rewatched Dominion recently, feeling the sort of JP3 continuum between Alan and Ellie, and like locking into that and having Macy be kind of the vehicle to be like, what was going on with you guys? And really enjoying that element. It fight they found a way to do it in a playful way without being like, Oh yeah, you know, at the end of Jurassic Park 3, like Ellie has has moved on and Alan is stuck, and and they continued their story in a really satisfying way to me personally.

SPEAKER_02 39:13

Yeah, no, I enjoyed, I enjoyed it too. I think I think it was just a joy for me just to see them both on the screen and to have Ellie be such a just a present character in that film, you know, because she was the only one that really wasn't given the chance to lead a uh Jurassic Park film.

SPEAKER_00 39:31

Yeah, no, I wish they had marketed it front and form. You know what I mean? Like I wish that would I wish there would have been a trailer. Like you could see the trailer of Dominion where it's you know showing old footage of Ellie and then sort of being like, you know, and now her new adventure is to uncover the you know sinister biosyn and what they're up to. You know, there's a version of a trailer where you see the movie or you you you focus it because obviously Dominion was so w sweeping that it kind of gets lost sometimes.

SPEAKER_02 40:01

But yeah. Is there a Jurassic hot take that uh you're willing to stand by even if the even if the fandom disagrees?

SPEAKER_00 40:13

Uh the Telltale game is not canon and never will be.

SPEAKER_02 40:17

Having read your book, I I I I thought that might be the answer.

SPEAKER_00 40:21

Oh, that's so funny. Thank you for also thank you for reading my book. That was it's it would be fun to do a it kind of feels like this see Jurassic Right is the part two to that, because that you know, that was written before Jurassic World came out and was sort of like here's collecting all my fandom and my love and thoughts about the franchise up until that point. And uh, you know, it's so funny. I think since then I've like I've I would love to actually play the game itself, but I I I've watched it and stuff, and there is just a lot of fun stuff in it, but I think there's a lot of weird things of like having Sarah Harding be Jerry Harding's daughter, like in my head now, like in 2025, I'm like that is such a it also makes Sarah Harding seem creepy, you know. Like, you know, like I mean, then again, I mean in Lost World, Hammond is like after your incident in the park, she sought you out, you know, like so there is like maybe there's a I don't know, who knows? But I mean that's that's definitely a hot take, I guess, for like community specific. Yeah, I don't know. I think that is my hottest take. I I mean I think Dominion is I I just really love I think Dominion is my well, I mean, I I definitely was Dominion is my second favorite Jurassic Park movie, but I I I think I've just been having so much fun with Jurassic Park 3 right now that it's it's it's Jurassic Park, Jurassic Park 3, then Dominion, then Fallen Kingdom, then Lost World, then Jurassic World. Well, what's your list? Oh um We won't hold it against you if you change your mind.

SPEAKER_02 41:47

Okay, yeah. I I'm gonna say Jurassic Park 3 is nine number two. That is the film that I've had the most fun watching and re-watching, then probably Lost World and then Fallen Kingdom, then Jurassic World and then Jurassic World Dominion. It's probably probably bottom, but that's that feels harsh because again, Jurassic World Dominion feels like the new Jurassic Park 3. Because if that film was made at a different time where it didn't have to deal with COVID and all sorts of other things going on, like I think Colin wanted that to be two films, it's essentially two films, and he went, and I'm imagining they just said, no, you're gonna have one film and you're gonna have to work it out.

SPEAKER_00 42:27

Yeah. No, I mean, there that's what I've always said about that movie. It's such an embarrassment of riches. But you want to see more of the notion that I I and I think Dominion's very beautiful in the way that Charlotte's story is, oh, I am what my love of dinosaurs is fueling me to try to make the world a better place. Like what what a full circle of Jurassic Park. The idea that I love dinosaurs so much that it is actually motivating me to want to change the world and make the world a better place. But it's 10 minutes of a two and a half hour movie or 15 minutes or whatever. And so it's like you want to feel more from all of those kinds of moments. Or just even the even Dotson's return and just the notion of this guy who is shady and and now, you know, is sort of a uh just a like under the surface, just like ready to go back to his old ways, but has to keep this clean. Like, and again, like what we said before, like Ellie's thing, like there's just yeah, it's I want all of it to hit more. Um, so I totally understand why that was just frustrating for a lot of people. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:35

I think it's the it's the dangerous thing of when you're watching a film and you're not just fully invested in everything, then you start thinking about all the bits that might have been different or might might have changed. And so that's the kind of constant thing that's in my head of um, you know, maybe m like more time. That film needed to be like three and a half hours long to be able to tell the story that it was trying to do.

SPEAKER_00 43:56

Well, have you seen the extended?

SPEAKER_02 43:58

Yeah. And I enjoy that ten times more. It's it's much, much better.

SPEAKER_00 44:01

I mean, I can't even imagine watching the theatrical again because Rexy's story in the movie like doesn't make sense without the opening. Like you're like, okay, I see Rexy, there's this Giganotosaurus, and then they fight at the end, but none of it has any emotion or weight to it. But then once you but you when you have that intro, you're like, oh, this feels like a fantasia or a land before time sort of you know, the dinosaur, it's our our hero dinosaur goes to the Great Valley and there's a bully and then teams up with the other dinosaur in the valley at the end to take them down. Like Grant's line, like, oh, it's not about us, rings so much more true when you have the 65 million years ago. And I will say that one of my criticisms re-watching it recently, just to throw people a bone who who who don't like the movie at all, it is kind of funny how many people survive at the end and it's you know, like eight people all running around. Yeah. And I just I I almost think that if I had to pick one thing that I think would make people like Dominion better, like if I had one like just sort of easy if this happened instead of this, then I think people would maybe like the movie more. I think if Malcolm had sacrificed himself when he gets the flair, and you know, because that would have felt full circle of he was supposed to die, you know, originally. Yeah. And the heroic sort of bravado, the ego, feeling like it was in character. Like it would have like killing uh Pratt or like killing Sam Neil or Ellie, like that doesn't make sense narratively or or for their characters. But I think if Malcolm had died, I think it actually would have, I don't know, it would have given some interesting.

SPEAKER_02 45:44

I was thinking all the way through that Wu was gonna go because he he kind of goes on this redemption arc through Jurassic World and Fallen Kingdom. He's kind of like fighting against the people who are trying to force him into making things. He never gets to do what he wants to do, really. He's either working under Hammond or Mazrani, and they're you know, he's he just wants people to see what he's doing. So and by the end, he is almost trying to make amends for things. So if there was some sort of sacrifice that he could have made to, you know, so they can escape at the very end, he is the one that stays behind. You know, maybe his fate is unknown, but he's the one that stays on the island with the dinosaurs or something in Biasin Valley.

SPEAKER_00 46:25

Yeah, yeah. No, I I agree too. I think I think that would have been yeah, if those two details, I think if both uh Malcolm and Wu had sacrificed themselves, I think it would have maybe given that ending a little bit more weird. Because I I love everything around else around it in ways, but it is just very it is just visually funny to see that many people like scrambling around.

SPEAKER_02 46:47

And then getting on the smallest little helicopter to man.

SPEAKER_00 46:51

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:52

Like I didn't expect any like Caleb's I didn't expect this many people have to have survived by this point. I only brought a small helicopter.

SPEAKER_00 47:00

Yeah, so you're gonna have to hang off the back, you know.

SPEAKER_02 47:02

Um is there one person within the series that you are just like desperate to interview and talk to?

SPEAKER_00 47:08

Yes, I I mean well, the fact that I recently got to chat with Dewanda Wise was truly a dream come true. I'm still pinching myself. That'll I am that'll might not be out by the time this comes out, but it'll it'll be it'll be up in the next month. But uh the one person I'm really curious to talk to is Katie McGrath, who played um, I mean, obviously I'd love to talk to Laura Dern and Sam Neil and you know, obviously any of the Steven Spielberg, obviously all those people. But I think as far as what would be interesting, and it's just because of the Jurassic World's 10-year anniversary, I think the disconnect between like normal audience reaction to her death in Jurassic World, to her attitude in the behind the scenes where she's like, I'm splashing around, I'm having a great time, I get to have a classic Jurassic Death. Like that disconnect to me is so interesting. And she's never talked about it as far as I know. And it's just one of these weird little things where I think in a vacuum, that scene is one of the best scenes in Jurassic World because it's so horrifying and the full like seeing the behind the scenes for that where she's like on the street talking to Zach and Gray, then the camera moves, then they put put the harnesses on her and you yank her up in the sky and drag her and drop her in the pool. It it's so cool, and there's something so campy and fun about that death. But yeah, there was just such a disconnect to the reaction. And even just in, you know, Jurassic Park hates lawyers. Does Jurassic World hate personal assistance? Like, I don't I don't know how I'm supposed to feel in that way. And so for me personally, I would love to hear her perspective on that whole thing. Because yeah, there was no really kind of commentary on it, other than I think Colin at the time being like, oh, I didn't realize, oh, oh God, I'm so sorry, I guess. But also it was supposed to be fun, you know, like under understandable, but yeah, I don't know. The reaction to it was the reaction to it was just so such a big thing, and it would be cool to talk to the person in the center of it all.

SPEAKER_02 49:08

There was a few things I remember just in the lead up to Jurassic World, and that scene in particular, kind of the the death. And I remember Colin, I think at the time said that, you know, this is the first um woman to die in a Jurassic uh film, so I wanted to make it huge and memorable. Yeah. There was also the thing that Josh Whedon was talking about, which is strange to talk about Josh Whedon at this point for now, but um he was talking about the fact that there was a scene that they released with Claire and Owen and their conversation, and he was like, Oh, this this dialogue feels like it's written in the Stone Age or something like that, he said. Um so there was all that sort of thing going on around that around Jurassic World coming out. So yeah, it'd be really interesting to hear yeah, the the the take of the person that was actually in it and part of it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:51

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so yeah, that's my that's my that would be the like, I mean again, Laura Dern, call me. I just think I think we would have a great conversation. But I think Katie McGrath, as far as like just one of those things that I think a lot of lingering of of because yeah, there's there's all kinds of Jurassic mysteries or stuff, you know, mythical sort of lore in the making of or even in the stories of these movies, where like I would love to just sit down and pick someone's brain about what it was like on the day, what they were thinking.

SPEAKER_02 50:21

Incredible. Well, um, I'd just like to say thank you so much for joining me today. It's been it's just been so much fun just to shoot the breeze and talk about Jurassic. Um please.

SPEAKER_00 50:32

Um I'll No, I was just gonna say thank you so much. This has been so much fun. I really appreciate you inviting me on. And yeah, I I it's exciting. This is the like this is it, even though this marketing cycle has been a lot shorter than previous Jurassic films, I feel like it's been really I feel like I've met a lot of new people who are being like Dominion was kind of muted understandably because of COVID. And so it's been really exciting to talk to people and get it everyone is just more excited about Jurassic Park than ever before, which is really cool.

SPEAKER_02 51:06

Best place to be. Um, so um where where where can people find you online?

SPEAKER_00 51:10

Uh Stephen Ray Morris on all the things, mostly Instagram and Blue Sky. And yeah, see Jurassic Right every basically every week, or we do every week, but whether it's Monday or Tuesday just depends on my other work. But uh yeah, we're doing lots of fun stuff. I mean, again, I chat with Jurassic community members and content creators as well as bad people who have been in the movies or worked on the movies, and then we get wacky with it. And I talked to I talked to a psychologist about all the themes of divorce in all the Jurassic Park movies and Jurassic Dads.

SPEAKER_02 51:43

I love all that. Just expanding the world of Jurassic. I think it's really great. And it's it's such a fun podcast to listen to.

SPEAKER_00 51:50

Oh, thank you. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02 51:51

Wonderful. Well, thank you so much for joining me. I really hope that we can, you know, maybe catch up once uh once rebirth is out as well.

SPEAKER_00 51:58

I would love that. That would be really great. Amazing. Yeah, we'll we'll have to we'll have to be like, oh my gosh, this came true, or oh my like that stuff. That's always the most fun too.

SPEAKER_02 52:06

That's that's the fun stuff.

SPEAKER_00 52:07

Yeah. Yeah, yeah.