Jurassic World Dominion (2022) with Jack Ewins and Sam Phillips

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We’ve made it!

2022’s ‘Jurassic World Dominion’ was heralded as the end of the Jurassic Era bringing back the original Big Three Sam Neil, Laura Dern and Jeff Goldblum but did the series have anything new to say?

Locusts anyone?

In this fun and revealing conversation, Sam and Jack who both worked on the viral marketing for Dominion, share their behind the scenes stories and theories about what really lies in BioSyn Valley. 

I’d also like to say thank you all for all the lovely messages over the past 12 weeks and I do have a few more things planned in the future so please watch (or more aptly listen) this space…

Go watch Jack’s Jurassic videos (and many more…) here: https://youtube.com/@terrordome3000?si=74W529rJObh98dtO

Jack’s video about the visual narratives in Dominion is here: 

https://youtu.be/NWSh5aFiiz8?si=3hWt-S7nXtImKHjk

Follow him on Twitter here:  https://x.com/terrordome3k

Follow Sam here;

Twitter: https://x.com/bamsam_md

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/samphillips9985?igsh=MTU5M251NXhjamE0aQ==

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

I'm all in. I don't eat I don't even care if it fundamentally retcons things or ruins things. I'm just like I'm I'm I'm the fan again. I'm a little eight-year-old going in. I absolutely am so excited.

SPEAKER_03 0:12

Hello and welcome back to Road to Rebirth. And we are at the final film of the Jurassic World saga, Jurassic World Dominion, which released in 2022. Billed as the conclusion to the Jurassic franchise, Dominion brought together the old and the new. But did it feel like a true ending? Or was it more of a pivot point? Today we're talking about both the theatrical version and also the extended cut, including the stunning prologue and also uh much needed breathing room, I think, for the story. To help me unpack all of this, I'm thrilled to be joined by two awesome guests. They have been officially involved with creating some amazing viral marketing campaigns for the Jurassic World movies. They also created and hosted the much-missed by me podcast, Jurassic Cast, interviewing cast members and also securing one of the first interviews with Colin Trevaro after he was announced as the director for Jurassic World. Please welcome to the show Jack Ewins and Sam Phillips. Thank you so much for joining me today. How are you both?

SPEAKER_00 1:18

Thanks for having us. Thank you. Yeah. No, feeling good.

SPEAKER_03 1:21

Good. Sam, coming to you first. I was wondering whether you could give me a bit of background about how when you and you and Jack first got together and started everything.

SPEAKER_00 1:28

Yeah, I mean, we're going back a few years now, aren't we? So it's been I mean, it's been what, like eight, nine years since we even recorded the last podcast, like um when we was doing that. But I think the way it came about was I was oblivious to anything Jurassic Park, like in terms of like fan bases and things like that, and online presence. Um sort of like going back to the the late noughties to around about 2010, 2011. You know, I always thought of myself as a Jurassic Park fan, and I thought I was the only one. Um, you know, so and then I think it came around about the point of I know it was the the re-release of Jurassic Park in around 20, was it 2010, 2020? 2010, I think.

SPEAKER_03 2:12

Was it 2011?

SPEAKER_00 2:13

It was like the digital remaster, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Actually, around about that time, just before it came out, I was I don't know why. I I rode my bike to work one day, even though I could drive, and I'd I hit the curb, fell off my bike, and broke my elbow. I couldn't do anything, I couldn't work, I couldn't do anything. And then um, so you know, I was just puttering around doing nothing, and then that film came out and I went and watched it, the the digital re-release, and I was like, oh, you know, man, I really miss Jurassic Park. And I was I was at that time I was into like the Kevin Smith podcast and things like that. So I was like, you know what, I'm gonna record my own podcast about Jurassic Park. And the first episode was just like me just talking all sorts of nonsense, and then I sort of went down this rabbit hole and discovered like there was an online community that was like JP Legacy and all of that, all of that back in the day. And um I did a I did an uh a few episodes, it was like one every nine months or something like that, and I think it was like a couple two or three in. Um I stumbled across Jack's YouTube channel or Jack Evans' YouTube channel. That's the ongoing joke, because of the whole episode I was calling him Jack Evans. And uh and and I think I just reached out to you, didn't I? And I was like, Oh, I'll do this podcast. Uh would you like to come on it?

SPEAKER_01 3:28

And uh and I'd listened to it previously, hadn't I? I'd listen, I'd because I looked up, I was going for a bit of a podcast listening phase, and I just looked up to Jurassic Park podcast, and literally the only one I could find outside of like film review podcast, like Jurassic Park 1993 review or whatever, the only one actually just talking about the franchise as a whole as a fan was Sam's one at the time. Now there's like loads, including this one. So it's like, yeah, back in the day, it's just one.

SPEAKER_00 3:55

Yeah, and that's what I mean. It was uh it was it was uh way, way lower quality than anything you see now as well. It was just me like almost with like a tape recorder and uh plugging it into like this really old crappy laptop I had.

SPEAKER_03 4:09

So I it was just you hear uh hearing you say that you know you thought that you were the only Jurassic Park fan. I can remember when I first uh found the Jurassic Cast podcast, it was just about I was on my lunch break and I did exactly that. I just searched Jurassic in my in in like the app and it came up with it. And I was like, oh my god, there's a Jurassic Park podcast. Oh my god, and and they're English. I can't I can't believe I can Yeah, so that was just my way in. I just it was just such a I I'd kind of seen the on like Dan's JP3 page, I'd sort of read the forums, but I'd never really interacted with anything. But I was yeah, just discovering your podcast was such a great, great high.

SPEAKER_00 4:53

Yeah, I think that like finding um that point when I searched out was like the only like the second time ever that I'd searched Jurassic Park online. The first time was I remember being around a friend's house, this was like '96 when uh the Jurassic Park the ride was first opening in uh Universal Hollywood. And we must have spent like four hours just downloading this QuickTime video, which was just like a 10-second edit of the ride. Yeah, that's what I mean. I think for me, and I I think those like yourself probably listen to the podcast know that I was not a big fan at all of Jurassic Park 3. So kind of I just I didn't stop liking the series, it just kind of like was it was like uh Toy Story, you know, when he uh Andy puts Woody on the shelf, you know. It was kind of like that for me until sort of like that time when I watched the uh remaster.

SPEAKER_03 5:42

And Jack, how did you go from being a fan of a series to working on them? Like how how how did that feel at that moment?

SPEAKER_01 5:51

It was like a series of moments, really. Well, there wasn't more like one well, uh a series of one specific moments, does that make sense? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like it wasn't one specific moment, it's quite a few. It was weird. I remember like when because me and Tim were doing the website, you know, the Patel Corp one, which was like based on the leak name and and all that. And I'm sure listeners, I hope you know what I'm talking about. I'm gonna be a bit vague because the story's quite long, but I don't want to go into it all. And Tim had met me through listening to us on the podcast, interviewing Colin. So that's how like you know, we'd we'd got Colin on the podcast because we'd done the magical sentence of like, come on and talk about Jurassic, no spoilers, we just want to know why you want this job, and that was it. Like, we don't want to talk about like what you're gonna do for the film, but like just why Jurassic. But yeah, so we're doing the making this Patel website, and it was getting you know, fans were talking about it, and we just thought, you know, it's a fun little project. But I was working at the Empire Cinema in Leicester Square at the time, and I got a job there because I I wanted a job there, and I eventually got one because that was where all the premiers were. Yes, yeah, yeah. I was anticipating Jurassic Park 4 that had been announced to have its premiere there. Obviously, it never did. You got that job in 2004. I'd have been even if I didn't get the job, like honestly, I'd have been I'd have been at that cinema, like Jesus.

SPEAKER_03 7:12

It's a long time planning.

SPEAKER_01 7:13

Yeah, I I just thought, oh, they always have the premieres there because I'd been to the Prometheus premiere, like on the on the outside, like just never been to a hot movie premiere, and I knew I was a big I'm a big alien fan, so Prometheus was having its premiere there. So I was like, I'll go down there, and that was like crazy. And I thought I need to work in that cinema because if Jurassic Park 4 has its premiere, it's gonna be here working there and then doing the Patel stuff. I'm sitting there standing standing at the entrance, ripping tickets for people to come in, and my phone buzzes in my pocket, and I look down and I just see this email from uh this guy called Dylan Bridges, who's Jeff Bridges' nephew. He was uh head of yeah, he's like the head of digital marketing at the time. I think he's like way higher up now. I was like, Dylan Bridges, who's that? And then and it was like an introduction, and then I read it and then I put it back in my pocket and I was like, that can't be real. That's gotta be someone like messing, someone's found out we've been working on this website, and like and it's like, right, we'll screw with Jack and two, so we'll send him this. And then I kept reading it, and then down at the bottom it had all these like little logos of Universal Ambly and all this sort of stuff. And I was just like, This looks really official. If this is fake, this is a really good fake. But anyway, then I replied, and then he sent me a some contact details, and I went back to him, and then I just verified it. I was like, Dylan Bridges, Universal. I found him on uh I can't remember, it might have been LinkedIn, but I don't even know if that was around at the time, it was something like that. And I just remember calling my mum after work, just being like, Oh my god, got her foot in the door, I don't know how he wants to meet. So anyway, yeah, that's that's where it sort of began, and then obviously when we got deeper into the rabbit hole, we met back up with Colin, and then that re-circled background to him coming on our podcast, and he knew me from that. And it was introduced to Tim, and then obviously when we brought Sam and Sam on for the dinosaur protection group for Fallen Kingdom, and it was like you know, bringing it all full circle.

SPEAKER_03 9:05

So amazing. They must have just been scouring the net for all of these all of these people and just trying to put something together for it.

SPEAKER_01 9:12

I think it was like it was all Colin. Okay, Colin had an eye for the fandom, and obviously, as many fans out there know, he's he was very much online, like especially on Twitter. And he knew he was because he's a fan like all of us, but he he'd obviously was a film director as well at the same time, but he was definitely was a Jurassic fan, and so he was within the circle. So he knew that getting the deep fans involved to be like help work on the lore and stuff, that was a risk, a stu a risk to the studio, but it was all him uh instrumental in getting us involved and and and giving us the freedom that we had to do what we did. I do miss, I know we're jumping ahead to rebirth, I do miss some sort of online presence with with the director because it makes all the difference, I think, with fans, and you can just directly talk to them.

SPEAKER_03 10:04

It's been very different. I mean, we can talk about that. Like, what what is your excitement levels, both of you, for for rebirth? Now that you're because I take it are you involved in any as aspect of this film at all?

SPEAKER_01 10:16

Not no, not at this point, no. Like honestly, when Colin has gone and on to do other things, yeah, they've changed in-house and we're still in contact with Universal. Like we have been talking uh even up to this year about potential stuff for the future and stuff, but nothing's nothing's sitting stone. I can't say any more than that. Yeah, like yeah, so it's like, but in terms of rebirths marketing, no, we're not we're not involved with that one. I'll let Sam, I'll let you go because I I want to talk about rebirth a little bit, but uh let you uh well yeah, I mean it's it's different.

SPEAKER_00 10:47

I mean, Jack can back me up on this one. It's been a long time since we have been fans, you know, been in the fancy looking forward to a Jurassic Park film, which you know it's it's sad not being involved, but it's also really exciting as well to be back not knowing anything and just looking forward to it. But yeah, there's lots of things I'm seeing, and I'm like, although I've kind of been out of the loop on a lot of stuff, you know, I'm just dipping in and out, and there's a lot of stuff I'm seeing. I'm like, oh, that's cool. And then there's uh a lot of stuff where I'm like, oh that looks a little bit um funky, but um what's the funky stuff? Um I don't really want to be bashing it, but you know, it's just you know, like the the just the just these like the mutatons and things like that. I'm a bit like mmm, they could be interesting. It just it yeah, I don't again I don't want to be negative, but like a lot of it feels more like you know, that Jurassic Park is it the two was it the raw thrills arcade game? It was more like the movie adaptation of that. So but hey, you know, I hope it's good, Jack.

SPEAKER_01 11:44

I'm going into rebirth not knowing what's gonna happen in a Jurassic film, and that for me personally has not happened since I was 12 years old going in to watch Jurassic Park 3. It's so exciting. Like, I I tell you, I'm the complete opposite of Sam. I'm all in on this one in terms of like I don't think anything's funky. I'm all in. I don't eat I don't even care if it fundamentally on things or ruins things. I'm just like I'm I'm I'm the fan again. I'm a little eight-year-old going in. I absolutely am so excited for this. I think the the mutadons, I mean, they just look like dinosaurs. If there was a di if they gave it an actual dinosaur name and said it was a dinosaur, no one would know any different. That's my opinion on it. But but the distortus Rex thing, that looks insane. And I think the first trailer I was a little bit like that design looks naff when it's like the smoke. Yeah, but now they've they've definitely tweaked it since then.

SPEAKER_03 12:35

And it's there's a lot of tweaking going on between those two trailers, a lot.

SPEAKER_01 12:38

Yeah, and I think the final film is gonna be tweaked even more so. And I'm and as a big alien fan, there's loads in this film that looks alien coded. Yeah, like the design of the scientific research base, the the sort of retro futuristic computer consoles, the distort Rex itself looks like the xenomorph. So, like I can't help but like it. I just hope that there is this part of me that's like when they say in the line in the trailer, which I I don't know if it's gonna play out like it does in the final film, when they're like, This is the ri the original research facility of the Jurassic Park. That's where I'm like, Okay, now you're making me question everything. Because I'm like, it it can't be for the original Jurassic Park, so that makes no sense because that was easy to saw and what what the that was written by Coop as well. So and Crite, I it could just be a trailer line, really, couldn't it? I wonder if she's like, This was the original research facility for the Jurassic Park, and then someone's like, No, no, this was for the new park, and that's it. Like, and that's and as they've like cut that last bit out. I'm I'm looking at like the in the second trailer, there's like the the the lab back in the day, and I know in the Empire article, David Kerb and then and the article was saying like it's set 17 years before the film set, which would place it what in 2010 somewhere else. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. However, I'm looking at these computer monitors and stuff, and I'm like, is it 17 years before the park opened? Jurassic World?

SPEAKER_02 14:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:04

Is it meant or Jurassic Park? Is it like is it is that what they mean? Because it's a bit vague, because the computer monitors are really they're not flat screen, they're not touch screen, they're all clicky buttons and all this sort of stuff. So yeah I'm gonna this is what I love. Like I haven't been in this sort of position in a long time, so all the speculation's been fun. Although the trailers are now starting to reveal so much that I've I've dipped out of social media.

SPEAKER_03 14:27

And it that it's the quandary that I'm getting to now, running this podcast up until the release date, keeping myself active online, but also not wanting to spoil this as the fan, and the reason why I set up this podcast in the first place. It's a fine balance. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:42

Are you excited for it, Rowland?

SPEAKER_03 14:43

Yeah, massively. Uh yeah. I mean, I'm a huge Gareth Edwards fan. You know, I I remember going to see monsters at the cinema, going there, watching it, and just being like, He made this in his bedroom, sort of thing. This is incredible. And the idea of him and all the stuff that he did with Godzilla, which I love. I remember sitting there and watching Godzilla and thinking, My God, if Jurassic World or whatever Jurassic 4 is, is going to be like this, I'm I'm good, I'm really, I'm really on board. So yeah, I think he's definitely the right eye to bring to it. And I'm imagining that the the the tweaks that we're seeing, it is down to Gareth and Gareth's input on actually the creature design, wanting to get the special effects bang on and the physics of it all right to feel that weight. Yeah, the that the shot of the in the second trailer of the T-Rex entering the water is just it's one of my favourite shots from the entire franchise.

SPEAKER_01 15:33

Like that, as soon as I saw that waddling into the water after the boat, I was just like, Oh my god, the look the visuals of the just that alone is just Jurassic fruit and through. You can't get any more Jurassic than that. It's just so daunting, isn't it? It's um it's yeah, it's dreadful. You can't you can't get any more Jurassic than that. It's like yeah. I got a funny um little circle back to my job at Empire Cinema. When I was working there, they did a the the first ever UK screening of Gareth Edwards Godzilla there. And my boss knew I was a big Jurassic fan because I was asking him, like, are we gonna have the premiere? And he's like, I'll find out, I'll find out. And then I was like, Oh, I like Godzilla as well. Like, are we doing that? And he was like, No, but he's like, But we are holding the first ever UK screening of it for the press to do their reviews, like all the big magazines and everything. He's like, Do you want to get in? So I was like, Yeah. So I actually went to that at the Empire Cinema.

SPEAKER_03 16:28

Ah, amazing.

SPEAKER_01 16:28

And I was sort of in a Godzilla t-shirt. Everyone else was in like suits and all they like, they were in like you know, their professional journalist outfits on there. I definitely stuck out like a sore thumb. I wasn't there with any notepads, nothing, like literally nothing. I just sat cheering all the way through. And I watched it and I was like, This film is insanely good. And I was like, the only my only issue with the film was how dark it was towards the end. And I'm really hoping the Gareth Edwards night scenes in this film are better, and I think because he's shooting on film, it will be. Um, but that was my only complaint.

SPEAKER_03 17:01

And that was his second film, you know. I know Godzilla was number two. Well, like Colin was you know, number two for him was Jurassic World. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:10

Yeah, it's just I can't wait. Can't wait for rebirth. Really excited. But yeah, I've ducked out of social media. Can't can't be dealing with seeing like it's not just seeing spoilers, it's seeing the same visuals over and over and over again because then you desensitize to it. So like that T-Rex wading into the water. I loved it. I'm trying not to watch it like a lot because I don't want to like see it too much.

SPEAKER_00 17:31

I think we said this, didn't we, back in um like the Dominion when they were doing the sort of the same marketing push of like TV spot, TV Spot, TV Spot, TV Spot, like with new stuff every single day. I think we I even said to you back then, like, I really feel sorry for the fans who are having a lot of stuff like sport for them and you know, having these like really cool vigils, di like the excitement of them diluted for them. Yeah, I think it's it's hard for fans to kind of turn off resist trying to watch all that stuff because even now I'll see like something pop up on Twitter and I'm like uh no.

SPEAKER_03 18:05

Yeah, I think Fallen Kingdom was the worst for me, which I it's I what I what I in like about the two trailers that we've had, I can't put the story together really. I've kind of got the idea of dinosaurs and all that sort of like big action moments that are gonna happen, but I don't know which point things are gonna happen because my mind, you know, as a film fan or whatever, I'm trying to piece together, you know, just naturally putting story beats together in my head, which for Fallen Kingdom, I think if I once I'd watched all of the marketing campaign for like the trailers and stuff and the little TV spots, I was like, okay, this happens, this, this, and this. And so when I went and sat in the cinema, I was like, I know exactly how this film's gonna play.

SPEAKER_01 18:44

I just want to go on record to say that even though we worked on Jurassic World Fallen Kingdom's marketing, we did the viral marketing, yeah, we had nothing to do with the trailer, and I I even though those trailers are beautifully edited outside like if you take it away from spoiling the movie, they're beautifully edited trailers, but they were it was like I was biting my fist, like, what are you doing? You're showing literally everything, and it was like painful, and I really feel like and the same in some regards for Dominion. I feel like that by showing so much in the trailers, it it it preempted people to not enjoy the film as much as they obviously uh otherwise would have. I think that like some opinions were there was no real surprises, and like when it came to any surprises that were left, they're already they're already taken out of it. So, not that it would I'm saying people would actually change their mind, but they would have gone in and had a different experience.

SPEAKER_03 19:42

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Um, so yeah, let's let's get on to Dominion. And I was wondering, Jack, whether you could give us a synopsis for it.

SPEAKER_01 19:50

Yes. Four years after the destruction of Isla Nublar, Biosyn operatives attempt to track down Macy Lockwood while Dr. Ellie Sattler investigates a genetically engineered swarm of giant locusts. Sounds like a great movie. Is that the IMDB movie? That's the IMDB one. Someone's gone in and changed it so they're not hiding what the film was about.

SPEAKER_03 20:12

Wow, incredible. So, Sam, what was your first impression when you sat down and watched Dominion? Where were you? What was yeah, what were the thoughts that went through your head?

SPEAKER_00 20:21

Well, we um Colin invited us, didn't he, to is it uh Pinewood Studios like a year before the film came out? So this was what June 2021 to go and watch like an assembly like a an early assembly cut or the first assembly cut with it. Was it the sound editors and sound engineers and all of that? Which was just mind-blowing because we didn't know, did he? Just invited, like he sent you an email. I was chatting to him.

SPEAKER_01 20:50

I was just chatting to him in emails, and then he was like, Oh, I'm showing you a screen. Do you want to come? I've got like six tickets, bring some friends. And I was like, Alright. So I took load of you, didn't we?

SPEAKER_00 21:00

Yeah, so we so we went up there and yeah, sitting in the John Barry Theatre at um Pinewood Studios and watching like the the first cut of Jurassic World Dominion a year before it came out was yeah, it was that was the experience we had. So, you know, that's that was a yeah, if you if you're gonna have a great first time watching it, that was the one. Yeah, obviously we had a different experience than most with it, so you know that kind of rose tints it for us a little bit, um being in that experience. But for us, the the the the version that we watched was pretty much you know 95% of what the extended edition was is, wouldn't you agree, Jack?

SPEAKER_01 21:40

Or yeah, it didn't have I think the only real big difference is it didn't have the Cretaceous opening. Yeah, oh yeah, no, it didn't have that. It opened directly with the T-Rex attacking the or walking through the drive-in theater. Yeah, which is really cool. It was a good opening. But I pr I prefer the one with the Cretaceous. Opening. And then I think the only other difference I can think of just from memory, I did we did a we recorded a podcast straight afterwards where we noted our thoughts on it. And I've released it on my YouTube channel. So you can go and listen back to what we thought about the film a year out from release. Yeah. It's like a time capsule, wasn't it? Yeah, there's like a few little differences. Like there's a shot of in the final cut, both cuts of the film, there's a shot of Barry giving out earphones to all the characters in Malta, and they're putting them in, whereas that wasn't in there. So one of my notes to Colin after the film was like, You need to have a shot of Barry or someone giving microphones out because it was really weird, everyone talking to each other, and like, how the hell can they hear each other across the island? And he was like, Oh, we have that shot, it's about 17 seconds long. I'll put it back in, and there it is. So it's like it's things like that that I can remember, but uh and some questionable blue screen in the Molder um secret. But yeah, they hadn't finished all the effects, had they?

SPEAKER_00 22:55

Yeah, as a film in general, you know, it was just like because up until that point, we had only had like I think Colin had relayed the story to you back in like 2018, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_01 23:05

Just after Fallen Kingdom Jack and it was like three or four months after Fallen Kingdom was released. He invited me to Pinewood to chat with him about what we're gonna do next, and then he literally sat there and just told me the entire plot of Dominion, and it was pretty much word for word, exactly what we see in the final film before he'd even written it on script. Like he that is his film, regardless of what people think of it. Like he had that vision and wanted to make it.

SPEAKER_00 23:30

I've I've I've still got my notes, and there's something I don't know if I don't know if you brought this up before. Like the end, the end battle basically with the Giganosaurus, the T-Rex, and all of that. I think in the origin, like back then, he mentioned that he might just even have like the Spinosaurus come out at some point as well. So well, he he he did word it.

SPEAKER_01 23:50

This is from memory, bear in mind. He worded it as in like he was talking about all the fans on YouTube who keep making battle arenas on Jurassic World Evolution, like gaming beam and stuff, make these huge circular bases with all the paddocks open up inside, and just a four of dinosaurs just going at it in the middle. He was like, I kind of want that to be the ending. Okay, like they're all in these holding paddocks in this massive ring, and something happens where all the gates open, and there's just the characters are just stuck in the middle of this absolute mess of dinosaurs. Carnage, obviously, he probably pitched that and they went, Yeah, we're gonna need to dial it back. So you've got the ring, you've got the biosin ring, you've got all the dinosaurs like pretty much in there, and then some of them are like as far as I could tell in the film, because that's one of my big contentions with Dominion, is how messy the setup is where the dinosaurs are at the end. But like, I think some of them are leaving, and then you've got yeah, the T-Rex Giga and Therazinosaurus are the ones battling it out, and a dreadnought is walking past and stuff like that. But yeah, he was debating having the Spino there and God knows what else.

SPEAKER_03 24:55

I don't know. I saw it three times in the cinema, I think, with various different people. For me, it was the return of Alan Grant, Alice Attler, Ian Malcolm, getting all of those back together on the screen. You know, I was just so desperate for to see Alan Grant again. I thought I'm never gonna see him again. But yeah, so that was amazing. And then when I finally saw the extended cut, I was like, this film makes so much more sense, and I feel like there's a lot more that you could still put in. Feels like it should be two films. Do you know whether it was ever gonna be two pre-COVID?

SPEAKER_01 25:25

Colin, I know when Colin was telling me the story, like just word of mouth, way back in 2018, he asked me my thoughts on you know, what do you think about the ideas of it being like a two-parter? Because he was laying it out, he's like, It's a big story. Yeah, I said, and don't shoot me, I said, I don't like two parters, because I said, because the first part always feels redundant because you get you're just trying to get to the second half. I was like I was like, I'd rather a story have a start, middle, and end. Yeah, I'd rather a three-hour film that has a start, middle, and end I can watch and go on go than a you know what four-hour extravaganza across two movies. I was like, um plus I think I debated with him, not debated as in like we were going against it, like talking about where would the cutoff be? Like where's the point where you end the film? Where's the big climax at the end of part one if you're setting up all this other stuff? So yeah, so I I kind of I don't know if I personally had that effect on it, but I definitely gave my opinion that I prefer one movie, and I do. I I prefer Dominion as one film, however, saying that I've done a fan edit of Dominion where I split it into two films. I don't know if you've heard of this.

SPEAKER_03 26:43

No, I haven't heard of this, no.

SPEAKER_01 26:44

So I I was watching the film one day and I was like, I wonder if you could make two films of this by splitting Alan and Ellie's story and Owen and Claire's.

SPEAKER_03 26:53

Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Funnily enough, I was so watching it for this for this podcast. I was just like, What would happen if you took out like literally just bitching?

SPEAKER_01 27:03

I've done it. If you want to have a copy, I've done it. I've got two versions of the film. One's called uh Jurassic World Dominion First Iteration, and then Jurassic World Dominion's second iteration, and I think the first one's with Alan and Ellie and Maisie, I think, and then you see a bit of Maisie's story, and then the second one's with Owen and Claire and Maisie, obviously. But both films then when they both meet up at that one point when they get you know when all the characters meet, that's when the films are exactly the same. So they both they both they both do this. But yes, I as someone who's like, I don't like two movies, I literally made it into two movies.

SPEAKER_03 27:41

I I I get what you mean. I do like stories to have a beginning, middle, and end, and if you can tell it in one, then that's definitely what it is. I just think with the story that we get that Colin's trying to get across to us, I think particularly around Owen and Maisie's story, a lot of the time that the uh the film just I just want it to stop for a moment and just linger on some silence between characters and because there's some big heavy stuff going on between Maisie and it just doesn't give itself enough time, I think, to really bed those ideas to we get that really strong connection. I think the Ellie and um Alan and Ian you know to a lesser extent, but at least Ellie and Alan, I think because we've got the Jurassic Park knowledge with us when we're watching it, I think it's easier just to slot into their story a bit quicker. Whereas the moment around the campfire just feels like a really nice moment for the film, and it's over in about like three minutes or less than that.

SPEAKER_01 28:36

I know what you mean. There needs to be like an extra scene because the their plot is about Maisie finding out finding out who she is and Owen and Claire uh dealing with you know, trying to be parents.

SPEAKER_03 28:47

I want a scene like more with Owen and Claire maybe talking. Like j doesn't have to be much, but just a scene between them.

SPEAKER_00 28:55

I swear they must have shot stuff in that log cab and the extra scenes.

SPEAKER_03 28:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:59

Yeah, I think when when I first watched it, I related more to the Owen, Claire and Maisie storyline to the Alan and Ellie storyline. Like I was drawn more to that side of the film, to Jack's uh first iteration than than the other side. No, not not that I I I didn't I dislike the uh Alan and Ellie storyline, but it was just I was more invested at that point in Owen and Claire's storyline.

SPEAKER_01 29:23

What made me laugh was like I I'm the same with you, Sam, but that's because I'm a new parent. So it's like I was uh swearing. That's yeah, that's you got a personal input in that. Um but I I remember going into Dominion before that came out in the fan circles, everyone was talking about how you know, oh, you hear the usual thing like, oh, Owen's just star lord, no one takes it seriously, like the older characters have this more gravitas and yadda yadda yadda yad. And then you watch Dominion and it's the complete opposite. Like Owen and Claire's story is way more subdued and serious in their tone and the way they talk of talk to each other. And then Alan, Ellie, and Ian are all like quippy and like laughing and joking and stuff like that. And then when you think about it, and I uh my opinion on that is that that makes complete sense because it's how far from the trauma are you? Owen and Claire are literally living in isolation with this girl they've essentially kidnapped, yeah. And uh they're trying to work out what to do with her, and and it's a really weird situation, and obviously Claire's wanted for you know her involvement with uh the dinosaur protection group and and all that sort of stuff. Ellie, Ian, and Alan are so far removed from 2001 and their last involvement with this stuff that they've sort of come to terms with their trauma, and they're a little bit more like you know, as Ian is, he's just like, Oh, you know, it's the end times, whatever, we've squandered our time.

SPEAKER_03 30:47

You know, it's like he's I love I love the fact that Ian Malcolm is the in-house philosopher for this for Biosyn. He's quite slimy in Jurassic Park. He just says whatever he pitches his piece, you know, doesn't care that anybody doesn't listen to him. He just nobody's listening to me. I'm just gonna moan and tell you that you're all wrong and I'm right all the time. That's what he does in the books. And it feels like he's just come to terms with that fact in in Dominion. He's this, you know, as as um as Rome Burns, he's inju he's enjoying his best life. And I think Jeff Goblum had an amazing time. I think the three of them improvised a lot of their stuff.

SPEAKER_01 31:24

They also had the history of the character in their minds, so they're in those characters. I'm in I'm currently listening to the Lost World audiobook, uh, the Crichton book, um, in in in prep for rebirth, because I'm trying to get in co-op's head. Like when I go into rebirth, I'm like, what has co op got from these books that he's gonna try and adapt? Anyway, uh interesting point. There's a whole bit about Malcolm in that book, how he was an in-house uh I can't remember what they called him now, in-house person for In-Gen. So like he worked, he worked extensively for In-Gen for a long time, and I'm like, that's where Colin got the bias in stuff from. Like that is uh genuinely the way they word it in the book. I can't remember exactly how it's worded, but I was listening to it. I was like, Yep, that's where Colin got the whole idea of him working for bias in from. It's like laid out right there. Um yeah, so it's interesting.

SPEAKER_03 32:12

Yeah, I actually rereading the books this year, I was amazed about how much like Colin and Emily took from the books. Like, I was just had a little pen just marking down. I was just like, Oh, this is this is Jurassic World Dominion, and it feels like Malcolm's speech and all of that feels lifted right from some bits in in Lost World, particularly that lecture he gives at the start of the book. Yeah. Yeah, is if there's uh d lines directly taken from yeah, I was thinking that Claire is kind of the most developed character, I think across the three films. If you're looking at somebody who really goes on a journey, do you think that's true? I do.

SPEAKER_01 32:52

There is one bugbear though that I have um with Dominion and Claire, which it it it irritates me every time I watch the film because I'm like, it was so close to grasping complete greatness. Whereas like actually, no, I might take that back. Actually, I think I'm remembering a conversation I had with myself in my head, and I'm so what I'm trying to say is there's a bit the plane has been attacked by the Ketzical Atlas, and Owen turns to Claire and he looks at her and he realizes she's got to be the one to go save Maisie. So he goes up and he's like, You're the one who's gotta go get her. I love you, I'll see you again, and he just lets her go, and she goes off into the wilderness, and he's then obviously she thinks he dies in a plane crash. It always bugged me ever since my wife pointed this out, and then ever since she mentioned it, I was like, I was like, Why did you have to say that? She was like, Claire and Owen find Maisie. It's not, it's not oh yeah, Claire finds like they it feels like it should be Claire finds Maisie, yeah, and and she's like, I've done it, and then Owen comes up. I feel like what Colin was actually trying to go for was that no, you can't split them up, yeah. Because even though they're like, No, you go rescue, no, you go like all this sort of stuff. It's like, no, no, you have she has to see you both there together to trust you. So that's why when Maisie sees them after the car accident, she's like, My parents. She doesn't say own and Claire, she says my parents, and that's I feel like had it been one of them, it wouldn't have the narrative point that uh I think Colin was going for. So I've kind of just turned myself around on that. I was about to be like, yeah, uh Claire should have found Maisie.

SPEAKER_03 34:36

But it's interesting, but I it is interesting at the start because that campfire sequence, Maisie seems to react to Owen in a better way than than she does to Claire. So it feels like they've got more of a relationship to actually to build upon, to actually get started, you know. Maisie and and Claire, they need to work work a bit better with each other. Whereas when Owen turns out, they're just like, Oh yeah, you know, just you know, they high-five each other and they're whittling outside.

SPEAKER_01 35:04

Well, there's all there is an underlining thing with Owen and Maisie where Owen doesn't trust her. Yeah. Because he's like, Don't go past the bridge. He has that argument with her around the campfire and she storms off. And then when uh she's like with Beta and she's given him the bread, he comes up with blue and he's like, Maisie, get back in the house. She's like, I'll come with you. And he goes, What did I just say? And she storms off, and that's what gets her kidnapped. I think it's the moment when they're going to rescue Beta together, and she steps forward and does the whole like you know, thing, and then Owen gives Grant a look of like, Okay, she's doing this, and then they do the trifecta with Beta. I feel like that moment narratively is really important for the whole story because visually it's like a callback to obviously, you know, vi visually you're looking at it. It's Owen with the three raptors around him, and he's putting his hands up from Jurassic World. This is the complete opposite. You've got three large humans and one tiny raptor, so it's like visually it's the it's the mirror image, but also you've got Alan Grant there witnessing for the first time this sort of raptor behaviour human relationship, which he hasn't has not seen since you know communicating with him with his whistle. Um but it's like obviously putting Alan Grant in a situation with Raptor, it's a young raptor, so it's it's still dangerous, but it's not like he's confronting uh an adult raptor. So Grant's a little bit more relaxed, he's dishing out his like you know, they go for the fruit, blah blah blah blah. And then Beta obviously goes for Alan, so set up earlier that um you know they can they know when you're scared kind of thing. It's like Owen and Maisie have that exchange of dialogue about like you know, they can tell when you're scared, and obviously Alan Grant being you know, his history with raps is the first time, even as a young one, that's why Beta goes for him. But then you've got yeah, the whole Maisie Owen relationship is coming to uh a close there, like they're they're trusting each other because Owen is like, Maisie, you've got him like we're we're gonna triangulate. So I just think there's loads going on in that moment that really ties a lot of things together over the legacy of Jurassic, but most people might not spot it, they might not think about it, they'll just see like the hand thing and be like bang and that's it.

SPEAKER_03 37:19

It's probably a film that I will watch least compared to the other two, Jurassic World and Fallen Kingdom. I actually re- I've my uh opinion of Fallen Kingdom was quite low when I first saw it, but actually it's the film that I've now probably enjoyed the most out of those three, just because of the big swings that it takes. And the more I watch it, the more I can see exactly what Bayona and all of them were uh doing with that film, and it's very clever. And as a horror film fan as well, I I just love the the look of it. Yes, yeah, classic horror. And just the fact that it's somebody just uh playing in a sandbox and just doing stuff that you won't wouldn't expect. I I can sit down and watch that film and just enjoy it as a film, doesn't need to really be associated with Jurassic Park or anything, it's just it's just a fun, really good, like suspenseful film, I think.

SPEAKER_01 38:11

Uh Dominion is the only one, if you watch it, it wouldn't make much sense unless you've watched the others. I think Jurassic Park 3 has the San Diego line and the name drop of sauna in Fallen Kingdom are the only two things that would make if you didn't know anything, you'd be like, the hell are they talking about? What was that? Yeah, but um no, what's the San Diego incident? What's Alan Grant talking about? But like their stories actually make sense in a vacuum. You just take them out, you've like, you can watch it from start mid-level, and it'll make sense. Dominion gets a little bit lost in the weeds when they start talking about the first generation came from sauna and and all that sort of stuff, like you know, the can, Dodson grabbing the can. Like, yeah, what's the point in that? Why do they keep showing that stupid?

SPEAKER_00 38:53

You also got like eight characters with no real background story as well. So you're just like all these people, if you like, going in for the first time.

SPEAKER_03 39:00

And Sam, what do you think about the new characters that Dominion brings in, you know, like Ramsey and uh Kayla? There's quite a new like people that we've got to get on board with quite quickly and trust quite quickly as well.

SPEAKER_00 39:12

Yeah, I think they um the way they were handled and introduced was they felt very Jurassic and they felt I say very Jurassic, they felt very Jurassic world and they slotted into the their respective parts in the story quite well. I don't feel like there was too many parts for them shoehorned in. Uh uh I've I think I've maybe had one or two issues with some of the characters earlier on, but you know, after that I thought, yeah, up watching it for like the second time, I was you know, I was a little bit more you know welcoming of them. Yeah, but I think it was more to back to counterbalance the the the returning characters as well, isn't it? It's like we can't just have like a complete cast of reunions, you know, we've got to bring some new blood in as well. And at that point, I know you know this was the end of the saga, but there also you know was potential for taking stories forward with like spin-offs and whatnot. So, you know, you did kind of there was probably a a a bit of studio play in that as well.

SPEAKER_03 40:12

Yeah, I mean I enjoy I enjoy Kayla, she's probably my my favourite of the new characters. She does a pretty good job, I think, of slotting into that group and actually being an entertaining presence on the screen.

SPEAKER_00 40:25

Yeah, yeah, she did. She felt like um she could have been a character in like Indiana Jones or something, you know, like a side gift.

SPEAKER_01 40:30

Star Wars, she's hand solo, yeah, yeah. She literally is, she's got the rugged ship, she gets met at the uh at Tatooine, you know, scummer villainy in Malta.

SPEAKER_02 40:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:42

And she even has the when they start the Bloomin' playing up, it has the Millennium Falcon sound, it goes that noise. Yeah. Yeah. When you start watching Dominion through the lens of Star Wars, you'll start to see how Colin was giving his two middle fingers up to Disney for what happened with him.

SPEAKER_03 40:59

I yeah. I remember thinking when that whole thing kicked off, and I thought he's gonna channel so much of like raw energy and up you mentality.

SPEAKER_01 41:13

Kind of like you have all the hero, classic hero characters, Alan, Ellie, and Ian, all survive, none of them die, and they all meet, and they have that glorious shot of all of them together. Whereas the new Star Wars films, they killed Luke, they killed Han, they killed Leia, and they all had separate films, none of them got back together. So it's like him being like, nah, you you screwed up.

SPEAKER_00 41:35

We even got this is how it's we even got our own most eisely with the uh with the black market.

SPEAKER_03 41:41

I love all that that stuff, the black market stuff.

SPEAKER_01 41:44

I have a question though. Uh, would would you guys consider Dodson a new character, even though he had his cameo in Dominion? Because I I wouldn't because I I wouldn't in the sense that like I actually think Campbell Scott played him very well to the point where if you go back and watch Jurassic Park and look at the mannerisms between the original actor and and then and Campbell Scott's version, like they actually are very similar, like the way the way they're awkwardly talking and stuff. But obviously, he is like introduced in a major way in Dominion.

SPEAKER_02 42:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:16

Because I think if if we were to consider him a new character, I would say he's my new favourite because he's such a slime ball, and uh, and I've got a lot to say about Dodson as a character.

SPEAKER_03 42:26

I'm in I'm interested to think about why Ellie and Alan are so down on Biosyn and Dodgson. There isn't the overt connection early up front that he's the person that sent Nedry. You know, I'm just thinking for a general person sitting sitting down and watching this film, building him up as this big bad that's almost been playing behind the scenes of all of this. Like, is it because he feels more like a Steve Jobs or like Tim Cook?

SPEAKER_01 42:53

He literally is Tim Cook. Yeah, I know. I don't know what Colin was trying to say with that, but no, I know.

SPEAKER_03 42:59

It's so it's like it's are you meant to be like really hating on hate hating on him just because of the way he is in that opening now this?

SPEAKER_01 43:06

I I no, I I well I think obviously if we know who he is, yeah. I don't know if you've watched my latest YouTube video on Dominion where I go into how he's a hollow dragon.

SPEAKER_03 43:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 43:17

I go into like the the visual symbolism of Dodson and the Giganotosaurus, they're both connected, they're both hollow dragons. But like Dodson is I'm I'm glad they never had a scene where Alan and Ellie are like, you were the one who turned up. It'd be then no two on the nose. I like that if knowing what we know as an audience, when Alan and Ellie meet Dodson in the ring of Bison headquarters, you see how awkward he is.

SPEAKER_02 43:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:45

It's like we know why he's acting awkward because he's nervous as hell because he realized who these people are, and now they're in his house. And it's like he's and that's why he's like, You want one of my bars? You know, and it's like he's acting really skittish, and you know I think that's the first.

SPEAKER_03 44:00

Crack that we see is when he asks Ramsay, Have you got one of my bars? And it's he like it's well, he's building him up at that before that as being like, Oh, he's this amazing guy, he's so handsome and he's so smart, and he's just he's just like me. And then he goes, Have have you got any food for me? And he treats him just like a servant, and he immediately the dynamic has shifted, and we can see exactly what their relationship really is. It's not about Ramsay being the same as him at all. It's a it's not not in Dodson's eyes. He's just he's somebody who's a lackey and I can get him to do what I want. Yeah, and I I do like Campbell Scott as as as as Dodson. I think he is particularly that first scene that you get to see him in in the complex, feels very method. I don't know whether he is a method actor or whether that's but he feels like he's really going deep on that character.

SPEAKER_01 44:48

If you watch, there's an interview with Campbell Scott where he's like talking about Dodson and the role, and he talks about going into the book and reading the book and going into it and stuff like he definitely understood where Crichton was going with the character and how sort of slimy he is. Because like obviously, everyone because it's so visceral, everyone knows Eli Mills is book Dodson in terms of like he literally murders an old man in his bed. Like he's he's horrible. Dodson tries to murder all of the main cast in Dominion. Yeah, he tries to have Owen and Claire killed in Malta, he turns off the he gets them to turn off the ADS. So the Ketz tries to kill him, he tries to he stops the tunnel, the train, hyperloop train. So Alan and Ellie go into the tunnels where he knows people have died because there's a skull in them. Like he's like he he tr actively tries to kill all the main cast, so he's an attempted murderer, and obviously the skull in the cave lets us believe that there's stuffing going on here that he you know, and obviously we know our history with him and Nedri. But the irony is uh that he's the only one who dies in Biason. You know, obviously, most Jurassic films, you know, everything goes to pot and there's like carnage everywhere, and people are ah dying. But in Jurassic World Dominion, I think it's a narrative point that like Dodson does all this stuff, tries to get people killed, but he's ironically the only one who bites the dust. It's like for all his effort.

SPEAKER_03 46:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:14

So yeah, he's his own undoing.

SPEAKER_03 46:16

Yeah. Uh Sam, what what maybe is your favourite dinosaur moment or action sequence that we get in Dominion?

SPEAKER_00 46:23

Um, I think it's definitely the uh Derizinosaurus moment with Claire. And that was heartbreaking to see in the same way, like as I was describing earlier with some of the the rebirth um marketing and TV spots is that they revealed that scene because I think at the point we watched it, we that that we wasn't even aware of anything like that in the film. So seeing that blue, it was just like mind blown, and it was almost like that. It felt like the the score was sort of like the thing, wasn't it? Like the like Jawsy the thing sort of thing, and just it was just so intense watching it. And that I was just like I love as with you, I'm a massive horror fan. Yeah, that's a big element of why I love Jurassic World Fallen Kingdom. But that scene was just I was I was a kid in a candy shop with that whole scene, and it was just so great. But yeah, for me, like just yeah, to answer your question, that that scene from start to finish.

SPEAKER_03 47:16

I think Gekino for me is the MVP of the film. Uh just just amazing. And you can feel that this is potentially for him the last one that he's gonna do, and he's been working on Jurassic, you know, since the Lost World PlayStation game.

SPEAKER_00 47:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:30

And he just goes hell for leather and takes all of the I think his scores for Jurassic World are really good and he reuses them in such fun, inventive ways, it kind of gives those scenes, particularly with I was thinking the cowboy, you know, with the with the Parasterolifus and the guitar, the Western guitar. He I I feel like that is it makes that scene even more fun because of it. I think if it had been a too serious, the theme or the music underlying it, then you would it might have you know teetered into ridiculousness, but he just I think he saves it with taking that music and just applying it again. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:07

It would have been it would have been interesting to see it with no score, yeah, like the original T-Rex breakout. Just from that perspective, just quiet, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:17

Just the sounds of the jungle. Jack, what's your what's your takeaway kind of dinosaur or action scene?

SPEAKER_01 48:24

Probably the entire Malta sequence.

SPEAKER_03 48:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:27

Because it was that was quintessentially the newest uh this film had to offer. Because uh you were talking about your love of Fallen Kingdom and and what that did for the franchise. Because I've always had this debate in my head since seeing the two films which Jurassic film was the more ambitious one of the two. I think Dominion takes it for me because obviously half of uh Fallen Kingdom is like on an island, so that's very very similar territory, but it's ambitious when it goes off Island to a haunted house.

SPEAKER_02 49:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:01

So um, but Dominion is, I think, ambitious throughout, especially with its plot involving these locusts and and then obviously having dinosaurs global and and black markets and all that sort of stuff. It's like I'm not saying it's like perfect, but it took some very big swings. The Malta sequence, I think that's the big that's the equivalent of like the the main road attack sequence from the first film. It's like these US big 20-minute long action sequence.

SPEAKER_03 49:25

Happens about roughly about the same time, I think, as as well, kind of an hour into the film, and it just blew me away.

SPEAKER_01 49:31

And I think again, narratively, it's like the visuals of Owen being chased by the raptors this time and not being not being with them, and and and obviously the what that means for his character and us as an audience following him since Jurassic World. I think that's just it was so fun. And I really like that um I think it's in one of the extras they talk about how it might have been Colin actually saying he wanted to set it in Malta because it's very ancient looking, so you have these very ancient-looking creatures alongside this ancient-looking human.

SPEAKER_03 50:01

They're all a nice colour palette, the actual dinosaurs match the surroundings all, particularly when they're out in the street.

SPEAKER_01 50:08

And I think they could have really dropped the ball with it in terms of its ridiculousness, but I think they they nailed it.

SPEAKER_03 50:16

And again, I think that's down to the score as well, because the score is just I mean, that was in my head the second that scene had finished, you know. I could I could hum that coming out the cinema.

SPEAKER_01 50:25

The uh the plane the cycle of that track. Everyone talks about that track because that is the one. Yeah, that's that's sort of you just get your head bobbing, you're like, this is great. So yeah, that and then I would say one of the other Jurassic uh the dinosaur moments I really really appreciate in in the film is the the T-Rex Giga um meeting for the first time. Yeah, well, second time technically, if you count the Cretaceous Cut, but just stealing the deer, yeah. Just take the deer, they have a little scrap and walk off, and it's just so natural, and yeah. And I just that's one thing I wish Dominion had more of was like when they're traveling through Biosyn Valley, just seeing some more herbivores and stuff, just some more dinosaur behaviours out and about.

SPEAKER_03 51:07

That's the kind of stuff that I think I wanted a bit more of. I th I wanted that bigger view. We're moving to so many different locations, but rarely do we get big wide shots or when we get to a new space. We get travelling shots of helicopters and things, but we immediately are back into the action. We're in tight shots on characters and they're in a new location, whereas we don't get a chance to like take a step back and go, Wow, what where have we come from Jurassic Park? We're just on a tiny island to now that they're just ubiquitous, they're in everybody's lives. And I would have liked a little bit. We got the foam footage at the start when the now this kind of thing, which is meant there to build that story in, but I wanted uh shots a bit more like the apatasaur scene when it gets out of the snow. I think that's that's a really good scene for me. And again, no dialogue, hardly any music.

SPEAKER_01 51:56

There is a there is a six-minute long video you can check out that was edited by yours truly. It covers all that sort of stuff. Uh kind of COVID, I'll curse COVID till the end of the days, because had that not happened, those clips probably would have been in the film.

SPEAKER_02 52:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:11

It's like, ah, come on.

SPEAKER_00 52:13

Um yeah, no, I'm with you. I'm with you. Yeah, I was gonna ask, what was your favourite scene, Ryan?

SPEAKER_03 52:18

What's my favourite? Yeah, I I think it is the apatasaur scene, actually, just that it's very different. Again, no no real dialogue needed in that moment. All it's all show, don't tell. We get the flare on the back of the truck. It's a nice breathing moment. You can see Maisie interacting with us with with the people, and it's it was really great. I remember watching that in the cinema and thinking, oh, this has got this feels right. This feels like a good Jurassic moment. And again, it's just animals doing what animals do, which is what I love about Jurassic as well.

SPEAKER_01 52:48

Do you want to know an interesting detail from that scene that I picked up on on my last watch? Yeah, hang on. In that moment, no one has their phone cameras out. So all the humans are looking at this giant dinosaur, which normally you'd be like, Oh my god, look at this, look at this, look at this. Colin, they've obviously made the decision to have all everyone, no one's got their phones out in the way, kind of thing. It's like this a way of cementing visually with no words, as you said. That yeah, obviously in real life, people would still be like, Oh my god, like thing, but yeah.

SPEAKER_03 53:18

I mean, I literally went to London Zoo the other day, and you couldn't move like and everybody's seen a penguin for years.

SPEAKER_01 53:25

Yeah, for the narrative purpose, it's like, yeah, it doesn't make sense in a real like reality, but no one has their phones out. As far as I could tell, I was looking, I was like, Yeah, don't see anyone.

SPEAKER_03 53:34

And then that's the contrast to Jurassic World where we first see the T-Rex, and you can't we miss the T-Rex you know eating the goat because of all the mobile phones. Yeah. Um, do you do you think the Giganautosaurus is kind of worthy of the big bad of this film in terms of the dinosaurs?

SPEAKER_01 53:53

I'll let you go first, Sam, because I could talk the hind legs of a horse about this.

SPEAKER_00 53:57

That's right, that's what I was holding off because I was like, oh, Jack's gonna have an answer for this. I mean, it it's definitely different to what we've seen previously, you know. It's it's big, it's it's it's slow and it's menacing, but it's you know, it's not like the Indominus, it's not like the Indoraptor and things like that. It's it was a nice change of pace for the for the big bed of the movie. But um yeah, to me it wasn't it it I don't really don't know. I'm sitting there, I'm thinking of it, and I'm like I don't know. I know Jack's bursting to say uh to get his point across, so maybe I'll let you go.

SPEAKER_01 54:35

On the surface, yeah, the Giganosaurus is a bit of a dud. It's like okay, it doesn't eat anyone, it's it's it doesn't really do anything unique at all. It's just there, we've been told it's gonna be this thing, but it turned out to be another thing, and it's just like, what is it? What's the point?

SPEAKER_02 54:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:53

I I like to dig really deep, and I and maybe maybe I make stuff up, I don't know. But on when I was doing research for my previous video about how they're hollow dragons, I think I've unearthed something to do with the Giga. I think the whole narrative point of the Giga is that it's the it's sort of like an anti-Indominus.

SPEAKER_02 55:12

Right.

SPEAKER_01 55:13

It's like the Indominus was hyper-intelligent, super fast, killed loads of people, all this and the other. The Giga Nosaurus is just this sort of slow lumbering animal, which you know doesn't come across as particularly smart. It it guards the dominion of biosin, right?

SPEAKER_02 55:29

Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:30

And what is biosin? So you have to go into the question, what is biosin? Well, biosin's a company that has built itself up by stealing other people's work. They even Ramsey mentions it, the first generation came from Sauna, so not their own dinosaurs. We know he stole the embryos from the can, because we see he has the can. Uh, in the extended version of the film, there's that whole scene where Dodson even says, you know, I've got all this decades of stuff I've collected. So you're like, okay, so you nothing here for all its like uh you know grandeur.

SPEAKER_03 56:02

Essentially the Ian Malcolm line, you know, in in Jurassic Park, you know, you didn't you just stood on the peop shoulders of people who did it before.

SPEAKER_01 56:08

Exactly, and it's hollow, it's literally hollow. And so I equate the Gigana Saurus to a dragon sitting on a pile of gold, and obviously we know in Dominion, as they said, that they're sat on amber, the amber mines are underneath uh Biosyn, so it's like amber's like the gold that the Giganautosaurus is sleeping on. But a lot of uh iconography to do with dragons is they sleep on massive piles of gold. The first time we see the giga outside of the Cretaceous scene, or even in the Cretaceous scene, it's sleeping. Like the first time you see it, it's just sleeping, that's all it's doing. And like Dodson himself, it's like the Giga is all bark, like all Augusto, like got all this sort of stuff, but really, nothing to it, nothing to it, and it's uh that's I think that's the narrative point of it. It's meant to be like this I'm the big bad, I'm here, and then it's like no, you're you're a false king, you're not the real deal, you're you're fake, and that's why then you know the T-Rex can overthrow it with the Therizinosaurus' help, which Colin had previously done in Jurassic World with the T-Rex fighting the Indominus. Yeah, the Moser is the thing that takes out. So I find it interesting that in both of Colin's movies he's had the actual really cool new creature be the thing that actually kills the the big bad. So Jurassic World obviously it has the T-Rex and Raptor working together to take down this T-Rex Raptor hybrid, so the unnatural versus the two natural.

SPEAKER_02 57:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 57:38

Uh I'm doing air quotes by the way for this one. Uh the natural dinosaurs taken out, but it's actually the Mosasaurus which comes and take it finally takes it down. It's like it's actually that's the new thing that isn't, you know, old come uh or nostalgia bait. It's the new thing that actually takes it out, and the same goes for Jurassic World Dominion. It's the Therizinosaurus that takes out the Giga.

SPEAKER_03 57:59

And that thing must have been terrified. Like it didn't, it it's blind, it didn't know it had a huge giga on its on its hands. It's like, what the hell are you doing to me?

SPEAKER_01 58:08

Yeah, it's like ah, but I think, yeah, the the Giga, I like it. I really like it. After I've even had it breathe fire, like it there's so that's what got me thinking about it. I was like, why do they have it breathing fire? It's really weird. And then I sort of went down this rabbit hole in my head, and I think, and I've laid this all out in my latest video. I genuinely think I've unearthed that what Colin was going for with it. It's this, yeah, or hollow dragon.

SPEAKER_03 58:32

I think I I think you need to do like an audio commentary track for for um Dominican.

SPEAKER_01 58:37

I I have done, but I this was before I came across all this sort of stuff.

SPEAKER_03 58:40

Nice, yeah. Um I want I want the ability to pause it and then you pop up and say the say those things.

SPEAKER_01 58:45

I love this sort of stuff. It's like in Fallen Kingdom, I did a whole video about the the the set decoration, like the the rooms in all Lockwood's houses, every room you see the characters in, the wallpaper actually matches their character motivations. Obviously, if you didn't have the trailers, you wouldn't have had a spoil. But like you go into Mills' office when he's like recruiting Claire, and like it has all these like hexagonal black and white uh patterns all on the wall, and they look like scales of a snake, and obviously he's gonna betray him. He's a snake, he's literally the snake, you know, going, Eve, have this apple kind of thing. And it's like he's the embodiment of a snake. The scales also look like the Endoraptor scales, and he's also two-faced. He's like shows this happy side to everyone, and then he's evil. Like he there's this one shot where he's like um he's on the phone to Wheatley, and Maisie comes and goes and he goes, Not now, like that. He like yells at her, and then he goes, Sorry, Maisie, blah blah blah. And it's like that's literally the white and black on the room that's around him, like the set decoration is it telling the audience this is who he is, even though obviously if you think about the lore, that's technically Lockwood's office, but you only you never see Lockwood in it. It's you only see meals in it. Lockwood has like a fountain with two birds that are like identical to each other, so that's like Maisie and Charlotte, and they're sprouting out life and all that, and then in Maisie's room, she has loads of caged birds and butterflies and stuff on her wallpaper, and it's like the set decoration is informing you what is going on with the characters. So I notice this kind of thing, and then I just go on these massive like rabbit holes. But the thing is, I could be talking out of my ass sometimes. So, like if if I and I'll be the and I'll be the first to admit it, if someone goes, no, no, no, and prove it wrong, I'm like, okay, yeah, okay, I'm I I've gone down the rabbit hole. I I saw something that wasn't there. It's because I watched like YouTube analysis of Stanley Kubrick movies and Spielberg obviously being a very good friend of Stanley Kubrick. You know, there's there's lots of things in these movies that they make, and then it's coded when they make the movies, where they're like, we're gonna do this because it'll say this narratively, but we won't, you know, it's not like we won't tell anyone, it's just no one ever thinks to like mention it. And a lot of people out there, and I mean a lot of people out there will just write off movies, they'll just be like, Oh yeah, no, that's just it's rubbish, and they just won't even think about it again. Whereas obviously being Jurassic obsessed helps, but like I've watched Dominion more times than I can count, and every time I watch it, I spot something new, and I'm like, that has to have some sort of meaning behind it, it has to. Why else would they do it? Like, it can't just be frivolous. So, like, like I said, with the Giga breathing fire, I was like, Oh, that's definitely George and the Dragon, uh, you know, with Ian with the spear, he literally looks like the George and the Dragon iconography when you look at all that on tapestries and stuff, is exactly the same. They uh they're always like spearing the dragon in the mouth as well in these old drawings, and that's exactly what he does. So I'm like, okay, that's George and the Dragon, that's obvious, that's a really obvious one. And then I'm like, but how deep does that go? Like the dragon, uh, and I know Colin does like this sort of stuff because if you watch Fallen Kingdom and just how insanely rich that film is when it comes to its reversal of the biblical stories of Genesis, it's like it's mad, and it's like they do their research, they genuinely do. But yeah, anyway, that I'll I'll stop my rant there.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:08

So the film came out and it did it did have a bit of a backlash in terms of the fans potentially, you know, critics weren't up on it either. Are there any reasons why you think that would be?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:21

Do you think um if it wasn't for COVID, do you think the studio would have gambled a little bit more on the extended cut? And therefore, the general consensus around the extended cut is it's a much better film, and as you said, it makes a lot more sense. Do you think that would have been much better received critically, possibly financially, and we could be looking at a we could have been looking at a different outcome, uh a different Jurassic Park 7, basically.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:48

Yeah, I think I think COVID has a huge part to play in this, and that's the reason why it's for Dominions often quoted as being the most expensive film you know ever made, and it's because it was the first out of the gates for for Covid when it came back into production. And I think a lot of the filming for it would have changed if it hadn't have had to deal with COVID. Like I I wonder whether more on location stuff would have happened between people, particularly towards the end and the the giga scenes and all of that. It feels quite close and quite tight. And I d you you don't know quite how close people were actually allowed to stand in certain it feels a little bit man manufactured, the distances. I don't know. I I think it would have been a very different feel and uh sense of the film had it not had to deal with the actual production of COVID.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:34

I will say uh, you know, like Jurassic Park is known for its special effects, the first one. Yeah, that's yeah, it's quite essential. That was the turning point in the entire world of digital effects, and then Jurassic has always been known for pushing the boundaries of effects. I I've always thought that the greatest effect that Dominion gets across is Chris Pratt was never in Malta, he never went, he never went, and there's only like maybe one shot of him on a roof where if you look closely enough, you can be like, Yeah, that's a green screen. Right. The rest of it is like on the bike, uh you know, they're on sets and stuff when they're in the boathouse and stuff. I just I genuinely think that's one of the greatest uh effects in the movie going is the fact that he's not there, but they convince you completely that he is there, yeah. And that yeah, and they sell it. So, in that regard, I think COVID it didn't have an effect on them in that in that specific example. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:24

What do you think the lasting legacy of this film? Do you think you want to see stories picked up from Dominion Laid Down?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:30

I I've written one, but I can't say I've written one that I really want to tell one day. Um I think there's a lot they could have done with what they've set up.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:41

And I'm interested in what Rebirth's gonna do. I mean, I mean, sp uh I'm very interested in what Rebirth's doing. Knowing that Coop spent several weeks helping to write Dominion script really makes me go, okay. Well then what did he because he knew because he was writing Rebirth sort of around the same time. He started like banning ideas for it. So they do work in tandem, they should hopefully work in tandem in setting up. Because obviously, I Jurassic World Rebirth's called Jurassic World Rebirth, so I'm uh I'm guessing the dinosaurs being global aren't all contained. There's still gonna be some things out there, they're not just gonna completely kill off all global dinosaurs and be like, no, they're only on this one island again. That would be ridiculous. So if they do that, then oh my god, like what are you doing? They can they can do anything with this series, they could always have a dinosaur crop up anywhere. Yeah, it's just whether there's a a taste for it. I always felt that they could actually genre hop, which is something I was kind of hoping they were gonna do, as in like, you know, Malta the Malta sequence feels like a sort of Jason born mission possible type movie, but it's got it, but it's like in a Jurassic wrapping. I kind of felt like they could have had other movies like that where they take a genre. Like, you know, the end of Fallen Kingdom is like a horror film set in a haunted house, classic universal horror, but it's wrapped in Jurassic. It's like keep Doing that.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:01

I think that wasn't that his kind of plan before he came back, Colin, was to kind of hand over the keys to different styles of director, because he said, you know, with if he'd been doing Star Wars, then who knows what who would have been ended up doing Dominion. Maybe somebody with more of that kind of action sensibility. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:16

Let's have like a like you know, let's have a horse racing movie, you know, like a like a Seabiscuit. Instead of but yeah, Seabiscuit. But but instead of horses, it's Parasol Office or something, you know. Or I don't know, that one's a bit stupid, but maybe like Twister. Okay, yeah. The movie Twister, they're chasing tornadoes. Well, if it's not tornadoes, they're chasing. Well, if it's like you've got this group of ragtag group of people who are like, you know, close-knit friends who've been working together years, they've got all these custom trucks that they drive around and they go, right, we've heard a dinosaur sighting over here, let's go tag it and and and do get our research or whatever they're doing, or document it, maybe they're a documentary team, and that's what they do. And it's like a road movie. So you have a road like a literal road movie where they're driving on the road, stopping at truck stops and and all that sort of stuff. And it's like, yeah, that sort of thing is what I've hoping we'd see more of. And that could still happen. Yeah, it could still happen.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:12

Yeah, I don't think um, I mean, I don't know, I could be wrong, but I don't think Universal is quite ready to disregard the last three films that gross like four billion dollars a few years ago. And you know, like that foot that that trilogy is still a massive marketing machine, you know, with blue and all of that, they're still introducing them in the theme parks and that around the world. So Jurassic World, the trilogy there is is here to stay for the time being, hopefully. But yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:38

I think that's maybe what Colin did the most was managed to resurrect a series that was dormant, you know, couldn't move at all, and came in with such energy and just confidence, I think, and guts, and just went, Look, I I I I can turn this into something that that will last, and I think that's probably what he's managed to do is actually those three films. If he hadn't have done them in the way and they didn't, you know, critics can say, and you know, fans and everybody can say what they like, but you know, those films he managed to change a brand from Jurassic Park into Jurassic World and created something that now I can't see stopping. You know, the fact that we were j just a few years after Dominion were getting a seventh film. You know, it's it's astonishing to think that that that what what what he set up in those three films has now led this impetus. You know, we've got the TV shows, you know, the kit um chaos theory on on Netflix, which is slowly getting more and more money each season, it seems, to bring in bigger guest stars, more money to spend on on it. And you don't know where that that whole thing is gonna go with the relationship with Netflix and um DreamWorks. Will we have a live-action TV show at some point?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:49

I don't know. Personally, I'm not the biggest fan of TV shows, so I'm like be very it'd have to be really good to get me involved. Like, get me involved.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:58

I'm thinking of kind of a monarch sort of style.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:01

Yeah, I didn't I didn't enjoy monarchs. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:03

I won't bring that up.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:05

Like it had its moments where I was like, This is could be really good, but I just I hate filler episodes where they just matter on and nothing really happens. And you're like, This is what goes back to my like parts one and two. Like I like my start mill and end, just a movie will do. But no, they could, and I and I mean they could do a live action show, and if they did, then I hope they do a really good one. You know, a mini-series would probably be better, like a five-episode mini-series, like Chernobyl. You know, that show was phenomenal, and it was only five episodes long. You're like, do something like that, that'd be good.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:34

Yeah, I think with like a live action series, you're at a real risk of getting fan uh franchise fatigue really quick. Like I know a lot of people feel that with the Star Wars ones.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:44

Yeah. And getting lost in the weeds, because there's like obviously Jurassic has a lot of lore and all that sort of stuff, and TV shows can really mess with it. Um, just going back to your like the legacy of Jurassic Order, like, where do you think it's gonna go? I I this is obviously wishful thinking as well as it's like a hope of mine. I hope that over the years people will go back to it and watch it. And the further away they get from their hang-ups they had with it and the emotions they had attached to watching it for the first time, I hope that they like that dissipates, and then when they can watch it with fresh eyes and be like, okay, I'm gonna take it uh on its own sort of terms and see what it has to say, and maybe open up to what the storyline was uh trying to go for. Because I know one of the big things that I think people got hung up on was obviously Fallen Kingdom was setting up dinosaurs being global, yeah. And obviously, Dominion comes along with its locusts, and that I think threw a lot of people, and they were like, I thought this was gonna be about dinosaurs being global, not these genetically engineered bugs. And for me, I like I knew about the bugs right from the beginning, so I was like, I really enjoyed the sort of Kritines-esque feeling of those of that storyline, and obviously the Andromeda strain, you know, going into this circular building with these white things and Alan and Ellie and these biohazard suits and stuff.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:06

I was like Jacquino even lifts some stuff from the score for for that as well. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:12

So I'm like, that is you're just that's exactly what I love. So for me, I'm already biased. However, you know, I I think P obviously we did the marketing for Dino Tracker, and we had people seeing dinosaurs around the world, so we had a part to play, very big part to play in setting people up for hey, this is what the story is gonna focus around. Although the locusts were teased on our website, we will say that. Um, but the I think once people get away from that, like the ripples of that uh effect die down a little bit and they can go into the film, especially after rebirth. Maybe rebirth will give them because that's specifically about the dinosaurs, they've got to get their DNA, blah blah blah. Yeah, you know, maybe they'll go back to Dominion and watch it with a new new set of like expectations. Yeah, I think that'll help a lot. I think I know Fallen Kingdom it's helping already. People are going back to that and being a bit like, yeah, that's not as bad as I remember it being. No, so yeah, that's that's what I hope anyway. If not, I love it and I don't care.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:13

Nice. Yeah, I'd just like to say thank you both so much for joining me today. It's been real fun talking about Dominion. Everybody go out and watch it and think about think about those dragons sitting on their gold. I was wondering where people can find you online if indeed you want them to.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:27

Yeah, I I'm on Twitter at Teradome3K and Teradome 3000 on YouTube. I'm trying to get because I've got a new job now, so I'm trying to get like uh time to do more YouTube videos. I'm doing like Jurassic fact shorts. So go over there, learn some things about the franchise you might not know.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:42

Yeah. Yeah, myself, Twitter, damn Sam underscore MD and Instagram Sam Philips9985. Mostly just me running, but I'll post some Jurassic stuff every now and again.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:54

Cool. Well, again, thank you both very much. And uh yeah, I can't wait to hear your thoughts when Rebirth eventually eventually comes out. It's not it's not long now. Thanks, Roland. My huge thanks to both Jack and Sam for that conversation and hearing all of their stories from working with Colin, seeing Dominion early, and their thoughts. And I think after that conversation, and after a few other things that I've listened to, my opinion of Dominion now, after doing all of these episodes, has changed for the better. I think the final film still feels compromised, and it feels like it doesn't take its time enough to allow me to see all of the things that Jack was talking about. They're there, but I wanted to explicitly feel them myself. I don't think the film hits in the emotional way that I wanted it to. And it might take a couple more years for me to get there. I can't quite believe it, but we're at the end. I set out at the beginning of February to put something together to really honour the film series that I have loved the most. And I hope these 12 episodes, this whistle stop tour of the last 32 years in Jurassic history, has been interesting for you. And I hope that you've learnt some new things along the way. For me, I've met some amazing people, had some incredible conversations, and it's a joy that when this road to rebirth season is done, I'm hopeful that those conversations will continue. I've still got a few more episodes to release. I've interviewed a couple more people, but I'm not going to tell you who they are yet. Just have to wait and see. As always, if you've enjoyed this series, please go on to Apple Podcasts and review this podcast. Give us a five star rating. It really does help this show find the Jurassic fans out there. And also follow me on Instagram at Road2Rebirth Pod. But until next time, I'll just say thank you very much for listening and goodbye.