Jurassic World Rebirth (2025) SPOILER Review with Derrick Davis and James Mottram

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Grab a Snickers, some Doritos and a can of Dr.Pepper and listen to our Spoiler review of ‘Jurassic World Rebirth’

You can find more about Derrick and his fantastic book, ‘Invertiverse’ at derrickdavismedia.com

And more on British Cinematographers Magazine here (James’s interview with ‘Rebirth’ cinematographer John Mathiseon is in July’s issue)

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

But I I did a short little TV to camera interview with Gareth Edwards at the at the press junket. And I asked him about the river sequence, uh, obviously as you as you would. So yeah, he basically said in his answer that he had no idea when he read the script and then he shot the movie, shot the sequence, came to the editing phase. He had no idea at that point that that sequence came from the book, came from the Crichton novel.

SPEAKER_01 0:29

Hello and welcome back to Road to Rebirth. I'm Roland Squire. And today's episode is a spoiler-filled conversation all about Jurassic World Rebirth. So if you haven't seen the film yet, hit pause and come back after. But seriously, it's been out a couple of weeks now. Make it a priority. To help me dive into the Dino Chaos today, I've got two returning guests. Author and film critic James Motram, an author, archivist, and uh keeper of the drastic knowledge, more than I could ever attain. Uh it's Derek Davis. Welcome back, both of you. Thank you so much for joining me.

SPEAKER_00 1:06

No problem. Good to be here. Yeah, thank you for having us back.

SPEAKER_01 1:10

So I'm gonna kick off with a simple question. How many times have we all seen the film? Uh James, how how about you?

SPEAKER_00 1:17

Uh twice. Uh so once uh at a press screening a few weeks before it came out, and then I think I left it a few days after it came out in the UK, and then uh I took a friend to see it because she wanted to see it. Yeah, also fantastic sort of addition. I got to see the Odyssey trailer, which I had no idea was being released ahead of um rebirth. So that was a real bonus. Uh I didn't even know about until I literally sat in the cinema. So yeah, I've only done it twice. Might do a third time just so I can see that trailer again.

SPEAKER_01 1:49

And and Derek, how how many times for you?

SPEAKER_02 1:52

Uh it's actually yesterday as of yesterday, it was six times for me, which is quite a bit. Whoa. So you're welcome, Universal. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:02

Yeah. I I I'm on three. So I first saw it at the press screening, then I took my mate to see it, and then my partner, we were on a holiday, and she went, Well, if there's a rainy day, maybe, maybe we can go and see it. First day of the holiday, it rained, and so we were in a cinema watching Jurassic World Rebirth. So yeah, I've seen it three times and three different audiences as well, which was quite nice.

SPEAKER_02 2:26

Yeah, it's been interesting they get the different audience reactions. Like my first time was uh um, it was like the early Monday screenings that they had in the United States. I don't know why they didn't do it elsewhere, it's not really fair. Two people trying to avoid spoilers for 10 days. But yeah, I went to that and you know, since not everyone really knew if it was gonna be rebirth, there was kind of like a little anxiety going into it that isn't normally there. Usually when you go to see a movie, you know what you're seeing. But and some people were just there who didn't even know that was gonna be rebirth, they were just like random, normal non-fans. How dare they, you know, be there? That was kind of like my least favorite screening, though, to be honest, because again, there was like that extra anxiety to it and everything. It just didn't really work well for me. But the second time was when you know the actual release date, and it was a Dolby screening, and that's honestly my favorite way that I watched it was the Dolby. Just to have the sound perfect, I think is really vital for any movie. And that's why I went like six times because I wanted to get the different like format experiences. Like I did uh 40X one time, you know, that's with the weather effects.

SPEAKER_01 3:34

Yeah, I still haven't done one of those. Uh the closest one is like miles out in an industrial estate somewhere, but I can see how this film might work quite well with that the amount of times it spends on the water.

SPEAKER_02 3:44

Yeah, you know, honestly, I was kind of disappointed. Like, I thought they were gonna use like the water spray a lot more than they did. I don't know if they're just trying to be conservative with the amount of water that they use each showing. But the motion seat's the best part. But then again, you could probably just go to D Box and get that, you know, experience with the motion seat. But yeah, and they had like some light effects too and some wind effects. But again, I was I don't know if I just expected more because you know, I'm Mr. Theme Park guy. I'm like, oh, this doesn't feel like I'm on Jurassic Park the ride or whatever. Okay, yeah, and then I did like the Screen X format where they add picture on the side.

SPEAKER_01 4:19

The Cinerama kind of updated Cinerama sort of thing.

SPEAKER_02 4:22

Yeah, that's why I wanted to do that because I'm like, oh, it's Cinerama, it's back. Like that's you know, people who know their film history, you know, Cinerama used to be like in the the 60s, I think, or maybe even the 50s as well, where they you know had like a wider screen. And I don't know how they did it for this movie, though. I'm I don't know if they used AI extensions or they just use I'm not because there is definitely more image, but and they only did certain scenes, which I didn't know that. I thought it was gonna be the whole movie, but it's not. Uh it's just like key sequences, but basically from like when stuff really starts heating up on the island till the very end, then they use the whole screen for the rest of the movie.

SPEAKER_01 5:01

But yeah, the one format it's missing is IMAX.

SPEAKER_02 5:04

I know. I'm really disappointed by that. That's the way I usually go see it. But Dolby's a nice substitute, but it's not it's not the same, man. Doesn't have the the big the big screen ratio, right?

SPEAKER_00 5:18

It's interesting you mentioned your anxiety because I think I read your comment, your reaction to having seen it on that Monday that first time. I think it must have been on Facebook or something. I'd read it, and you were quite uh I wouldn't say down on it, but you were a little reserved, right? I mean, and we'll probably get into this in a minute, but you talked about how it doesn't expand the law or the mythology, which is entirely accurate. There's nothing inaccurate about that statement. But I was kind of thinking, oh man, he's not that into it. Like, because I came out the first screening like really excited. Yeah, but I think I spoke to you straight up. That's right. We spoke that day by chance. It was that day that I'd seen it. So I was kind of like, oh, Derek's not that into it. But clearly the fact that you've been another five times would indicate you are that into it.

SPEAKER_02 6:04

Yeah, I mean, it's it's grown on me quite a bit. Like, I still, I mean, we'll get to rankings later, I'm sure. But yeah, it's still not like at the high point for me, but I definitely like it more than I did that first screening for sure. And part of it, I guess, you know, just so people know a little backstory of real life, Derek. Um, you know, I fractured my ankle like a couple weeks before the movie came out, and also the day after my book published. So that was, you know, I didn't really celebrate much. So, but you know, so I had a fractured ankle, so that I'm still in a um a medical boot, they call it. It's like it goes up to right below the knee, and it's like you made of plastic and like padding and stuff like that. It's very awkward to walk around and kind of lopsided, kind of hobbling. And you know, I I drove myself there. It's like a 40-minute drive to that Regal Theater. You know, luckily it's the leg that I don't use on the gas pedal. So don't worry. Yeah, I wish I had, you know, like uh some kind of like car that like a self-driving car. Kind of like in my book, actually.

SPEAKER_00 7:08

So you were you kind of like in a lot of pain when you were watching the that that first screening then?

SPEAKER_02 7:12

Uh not so much pain. I mean, because the pain luckily was mostly going away by that point because it was like a couple weeks or so after it happened, thankfully. Um, but no, it was it was still there. I mean, luckily, because you know, I'm just sitting in the theater for you know two hours or however long it is. So it I wasn't like really uncomfortable during the movie. It was just the process of getting there and then getting back afterward. Because all the screenings for that Monday thing were at the same time. I think it was like 7 p.m. for us. That means I didn't get out till like past 10 or around 10 or so. So then I'm driving at night at the same time on a freeway and everything. It was just like I just it kind of hampered my mood a little bit too. Okay, but anyway.

SPEAKER_01 7:54

I've I've seen so yeah. I mean, James, what was your first kind of reaction coming out of it?

SPEAKER_00 8:00

Well, first reaction was kind of elation, really. Um, we always get asked by sort of publicists to kind of give give a reaction pretty much straight away. And I actually bumped into one of the publicists on my way down the stairs from the universal screening room. And I just kind of turned to her and I remember going, God, that was great. You know, just that that's a sort of natural reaction. That wasn't any kind of you know, journalistic trying to, you know, either pump things up or or whatever. It was just the I felt like really thrilled by it. And then of course I had to try and come up with some sort of little phrase that I thought, oh yeah, that'll see if they use this in their marketing. So I was kind of like, this is the best Jurassic in a decade. Is you know, that really only puts it up against the last two because obviously uh Jurassic World was 2015, so we can debate that, like you said, uh a bit later on in terms of ranking. But I, you know, for me it just felt like a really fresh, kind of simple take. You know, there's nothing too complicated about the story, but I really enjoyed the set pieces. You know, going back a second time, obviously I knew the beat, so I wasn't quite as thrilled. And I was kind of on the lookout more for little Easter eggs, really. Um, particularly one in the Minimart uh on the island, you know, that little kind of uh well gas station mini mart, I think it is. I don't know if you guys had read about this, but the it said in the production notes that the the art director fill or the art team filled the the mini mart with kind of magazines like homaging to Spielberg movies like Back to the Future and Holtergeist. And I was like, right, I have to spot this. I have to spot this. And it is, I I guarantee you, I was kind of like drilling my eyes into the screen. It is nigh-on impossible to see any racks of magazines. There's one shot, it's a very gloomy sequence for a start, you know. So obviously, it's in at nighttime, and you kind of see a kind of what might be a rack of magazines in the background at one point, but there's no way of telling. So I was quite disappointed not to see some kind of Spielbergian Easter egg. So uh Doctor Pepper, though. Yeah, there's a lot of Ducks and Pepper. Obviously, Snickers is probably having a rebirth itself after this movie, but um yeah, I know, but I did I did enjoy it the second time around. I mean, I did to put it up against all the other blockbusters this summer, it's easily the most fun I'd had. I mean, you know, Mission Impossible was kind of a bit of a dour experience, and what else, Thunderbolts was okay, but I didn't love it. You know, I I've just had the most fun in this, and obviously I'm somewhat biased, as in the way you too you got you guys clearly are as well. But you know, equally you're gonna be harsh critics if it if it doesn't work for you. And I just thought it worked on on an on you know, as a kind of an action adventure story, it worked really, really well. And that's that's what I like most about it.

SPEAKER_01 10:53

And it was nice seeing it at the press screening, everybody had to put their phones in a little plastic bag and seal it and put it under there. So no phone screens, no trailers, just straight into the film. So that was an amazing way to watch it for the first time. So that probably helped. And the free bar at the start was very nice. Um but uh I I did I recorded an episode where I had like seven questions about the film before I went in. And for me, it's all about hitting that experience of sitting down and watching a Jurassic or the first see if I can get back to that first Jurassic film. And I think uh when we got to the moment where the plane is flying to uh to pick up Duncan and you have the burst of the John Williams uh music, and I was like, You've you've told me. You've you've got me. You've got me in the moment that you understand how I as a fan love that bit of music and love those elements of this uh franchise or series. And uh because in the Jurassic World films, those music beats weren't given that sort of prominence. They were hidden under dialogue, I remember in Jurassic World, and that made me I was just like they're playing probably my favourite bit of music from the score, and it's under somebody talking about skincare, and I'm like, I I don't want this, I want to be hearing this music.

SPEAKER_00 12:11

But you can kind of understand where Michael Giacino would have been coming from as the first composer. Well, actually, technically he's the second composer because obviously there was someone different on Jurassic World, John Davis, but you know, the first one to sort of take command of the new franchise, and he obviously doesn't want to just repeat the John Williams score, and it's difficult when you're up against probably one of the great scores of all time, so you can understand him trying to kind of play it down, and obviously Collins that would be Collins' decision as well, of course. But yeah, you're right. This time, I mean, the bit that got me, I will willingly say, first time around, the Titanosaurus in the field sequence, where it really strikes out the Williams score, and I genuinely had an emotive lump in the throat moment.

SPEAKER_01 12:57

Yeah, I didn't quite cry, but I wasn't far off it, and I was like, I was I I'll I'll yeah, I was I was moist in the eye most definitely during that uh during that bit. And it was it was how the film stopped, and at several points during the film the sort of diegetic noise just died away, or you got an internal sense of so in the moment just before he touches the leg, Henry Loomis, he um all the sound goes apart from his uh breathing, and you just get his like ragged breathing of his excitement just before he touches it. And then of course the second he touches it, the Jurassic music comes in, and you're like, Okay, I know I know what you're doing to me, and it's working. You know, I think that's a good thing. Yeah, I know, exactly. I knew it, it worked, and I loved it for the fact that it knew what it was doing and it it worked on that level for me, definitely, when I came out.

SPEAKER_02 13:52

See, this was another case where I wish I had a better first screening because the sound was also not very good in the theater that I saw it in, which again, if my original intent was to see a Dolby the first time, which is like if this ever happened again, if I could go back in time, I would just not have done it. I would have just waited till release date and seen it on the Dolby. Um, but I'd done like press screenings before those, like I did it for uh Fallen Kingdom, and that was a fun experience, like you guys said, with you know, phones taken away, got the bar, and no trailers. So I mean, like, so I I definitely understand, and that was like a you know, it gave me like a more positive feeling for that movie too, which I still have, even though it's it's goofy. Um but but yeah, no, I mean with Rebirth, you know, a lot did work for me. Like, I guess I'll start with this the T-Rex and the Lagoon and the River sequence. Like, I was super hyped for that. I was covering it on my channel, I was analyzing.

SPEAKER_01 14:48

We spoke about it on the episode that we kind of went through all the iterations of the script and how it slowly got smaller and smaller until it completely disappeared from that first Jurassic.

SPEAKER_02 14:59

Just so sad. But I mean, we understand why, because I think white, like we probably talked about, you know, it was you know, just to help with the budget and everything and just the the mechanics of making it work back then. You know, they didn't it was hard enough for them to do what they did. So to do like in the water on top of it would have been, you know, too much, most likely. But I was actually really happy with that sequence, even on the first watch. I was like, this is you know, pretty much what I was hoping and from what I saw. And then it adapted the sequence from the novel and even from the ideas they had for the first movie really well. And they even improved upon it in some ways. Like there's no annoying Lex type character, you know, going nah nah nah nah nah or doing any, you know, coughing or anything silly like that. So I think they actually improved upon it in in several ways. Um, my only wish was that it went on longer. Like, you know, in the book and stuff, they keep going back to them on the river. The T-Rex keeps pursuing them, but I understand why they didn't, because you know it's already a long movie.

SPEAKER_00 16:00

But it's quite an interesting point, which I don't think it happened, Ronan, when we spoke previously, but I I did a short little TV to camera interview with Gareth Edwards at the at the press junket, and I asked him about the River sequence, uh, obviously, as you as you would. And it turns out, and this is slightly blowing my own trumpet, but actually, yeah, Derek, this is kind of blowing your trumpet too. So, yeah, he basically said in his answer that he had no idea when he read the script and then he shot the movie, shot the sequence, came to the editing phase. He had no idea at that point that that sequence came from the book, came from the Crichton novel. So basically the story goes, this is how he relayed it to me that him and his editor were working, you know, in London all all hours, you know, trying to cut the film. Obviously, they were on this crazy, insane schedule, uh, you know, to as they have been on this entire movie. So he said at one point they had about half an hour off because they were waiting for delivery of something or other, and they decided to go to a comic store in London just to get some fresh air. And the editor bought a copy of and he said my book. So I'm assuming he's talking about the script book here rather than the uh ultimate visual history book because the script book has got a ton of stuff in it about you know the storyboards from that the junked river up sequence. And the editor, you know, took the book back to the office, it was just flicking through it, and then he went, Oh my god, there was a river raft sequence originally intended for Jurassic Park, and they had no idea. And he basically said, Um, he basically said, Well, thank god I didn't know because otherwise I'd probably have been terrified to shoot a sequence at Spielberg or at least one point contemplated and shooting. So then yeah, that's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 17:55

It's amazing that that was never relayed to the fact to him previously.

SPEAKER_00 18:00

Well, I I find that strange, but at this that's how he told it to me. I mean, I'm sure someone must have told him at some point, but maybe he forgot. Yeah, like Kepper or someone, yeah. But you know, if it's just a sequence in the in the story in the script, why would you necessarily he said he read the book when he was 17, but obviously that's a long time ago now and never gone back to the book. So I guess he just forgot that sequence. Oh, that's good.

SPEAKER_01 18:23

I mean, a clear standout for me. I was, you know, as as a Jurassic fan, knowing that that was going to be in it and it was just the best reaction in all three screenings has been the moment where she inflates the raft and then she pushes it over and the rex is gone. And it is an amazing cinema conceit that that T-Rex disappears. But the audience reaction was an intake of breath on all three screenings, and it was brilliant.

SPEAKER_00 18:53

I didn't really buy that because I had to say when I watched it again, and then it's like, hang on, where is that massive dinosaur just disappeared to? That's kind of like the bit in Jurassic Park where the T-Rex comes into the rotunda at the end. You sort of don't question where how on earth it's got into this rotunda, which of course was a Spielberg idea. You just go with it, and I guess you just kind of go with this, and it works. It works completely. I mean, the bit I think my favourite image that I took away from this entire film was the teeth bearing into the yellow, the world, the world's toughest inflatable, by the way, not being not being burst by T-Rex's teeth, but just that image of the the teeth almost coming through the the yellow inflatable material, uh, was incredible. I mean, I thought what a brilliant whoever conceived of that, whether that was Gareth or whether that was in the script, I don't know, but it just looked amazing on screen. That was just like that sums up a Jurassic movie to me, that that horrifying moment.

SPEAKER_01 19:52

Yeah, and I just wanted that self-contained action set piece, which I feel like the last two films, like a dinosaur-led action set piece, which I think the last two films have been not leaning into as much. And so it was nice having that full moment with that Rex and it feels like an animal where it wakes up, and then you see it having a little drink and the Ray Harryhausen like moment where the Ket flies past and it looks up at it, and it almost like accidentally sees the big raft and slowly turns its head and it doesn't need to run. It's like what's this? This is yeah, so horrific. It's brilliant.

SPEAKER_02 20:32

Yeah, no, definitely. Yeah, and that is crazy though, they didn't know that it was in the book because I mean, it even kind of fits some of those original storyboards that are in the script book, you know, like especially the dock part of the sequence. So I don't know if um because I I don't think we've seen storyboards from rebirth um from that particular moment. Someone recently who worked on the film posted storyboards of after that scene, um, when they're actually in the river on the raft and everything, but not of the lagoon part. So I'm wondering like if they saw those in the script book and maybe just like emulated it kind of thing, or if they just straight up used them. I mean, who knows? But it looked really like so spot on. Although I like the shed though, they made the shed kind of interesting and different instead of just like a cubicle kind of thing and kind of made it more interesting. And I do love on the raft because they really tried to make it be like, you know, these characters aren't doing something, you know, stupid. It's like, oh, why is she inflating it on the dock? It's because the raft specifically says do not inflate it in the water or you know, the cube will sink into the water kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01 21:36

So it's like ah and definitely shout out to um Matthew Clark, the lead graphic designer who I spoke to previously, and his detailed look at everything that went into this film. And we mentioned a little bit about the gas station scene and all the Easter eggs. Well, he shared an image of the the thing that the mute the mutadon knocked down from with the It's like a red Rex, it wobbles its head and it makes a noise. That is based upon the Kenner T-Rex toy from the nineties. Oh yeah. And he uh personally uh bent the tail of the unit because that was the first bit of the toy to break, if if anybody out there remembers those always bent in the box, too.

SPEAKER_00 22:20

Yeah. Do you do you feel like that sequence where um the young girl gets in one of the fridges, uh refrigerators of that uh minimart, if I'm remembering this correctly now, is that basically a nod to the kitchen sequence in Jurassic Park? I mean it with the girl hiding in the you know, hiding in the metal uh box, whatever it is, where you use it.

SPEAKER_01 22:45

I quite like the the idea that the Mutaton at that moment sees itself for the first time. It almost it's like it suddenly realize kind of trying to work out what it is. It's like taking a second look at itself. Uh good. Yeah, yeah. So, James, as you've studied these previous six movies, I'm curious to see where you think rebirth sits in the legacy of those six films. In the sense of d do I where do I think it's is it number two, number three, that kind of thing, or d does it feel more like a Jurassic Park film, or does it lean into more of Colin Trevaro's eras?

SPEAKER_00 23:22

That's a very good question. Um well from having spoken to David Kepp about it, he very much was leaning back towards Jurassic Park, which obviously he adapted. I I feel like there's quite a lot of the lost world in here as well. I mean, obviously we know of the lost world having a you know a second island and so on and so forth, and that feels like they're returning to this idea. I think we said this before, maybe when we spoke, but I do wonder how many of these islands Hammond had um, you know, to do his RD. But yeah, I definitely feel like it's much more of a I mean, obviously the very beginning, when they're in New York, it feels like a little nod to sort of the Dominion universe with the you know the dinosaurs now out into the world, but really it doesn't feel that similar to Collins movies. I think it's definitely much more back to the Spielberg, you know, ton in tone, I'd say, more than anything, you know, but it's a kind of humour. I wasn't really struck on the boyfriend character and his kind of you know, he he annoyed me less second time around, funnily enough. The first time around he really annoyed me. But he does have some good scenes, especially when he goes for a leak uh and you've got the creatures right behind him. That was a great sequence, it has to be said. But I found him a slightly annoying character, but then you know, and you know, I mean Martin Krebs, the Rupert Friend character, he's gotta be like a miniature um well like Dodgson from the book, yeah. Well, also, particularly if you look in the book, where I believe he kind of throws someone overboard.

SPEAKER_01 24:57

Yeah, he kicks Sarah Harding off the boat on the way to the island, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:01

Uh, and here obviously he doesn't kick her off, but he doesn't rescue the girl either. So yeah, that that's what I mean. And definitely when I spoke to Ket, he said not only, of course, did he did he, you know, cherry pick the river a sequence, but he did pick some stuff out of the lost world as well. He didn't specifically mention that, but you can kind of see that. He also said there was quite a lot of science stuff um from uh from Malcolm's kind of speeches and things that he kind of not necessarily lifted, but you know, he's borrowing that that stuff that really the Loomis character is you know there's quite a lot of Malcolm in Loomis, I'd say, on some level. Um, although ironically, yes, we the one reference to Alan Grant we get is that Loomis studied under him. But you know, the the I so I do feel like it's really harking back to those those earlier films, and I think that's a good thing as well, because frankly, we know that they're the best of the they're the best of the series.

SPEAKER_02 25:57

Yeah, when Loomis says, you know, um that the world would shake us off like a summer cold, that's lifted, I think, pretty much directly from the Lost World book, from from Malcolm, like you said. So I I was I was pretty happy to to see that because that was definitely some good dialogue from The Lost World. Because I don't think Lost World's ever really been quoted from much, except from the Lost World movie itself, obviously.

SPEAKER_01 26:19

Yeah, there's some bits in Fallen Kingdom and Dominion, with again Malcolm's two appearances, you know, him giving the lecture. A lot of that's lifted from the start of The Lost World, and I think Fallen Kingdom when he's given in the Zenet. I think that's again from the same lecture that he gives at the start of the book. But yeah, I was I was just loved the kind of character beats that Kep brought from The Lost World. But yeah, when he doesn't help the girl back onto the boat, I just scribbled in my notebook Krebs's Dodson like exclamation mark.

SPEAKER_03 26:53

The real judge the real Dodson.

SPEAKER_01 26:56

And the fact that it again slows down, we lose any sort of music, and you just get that contorted um expression on uh Rupert's friend's face as he's trying to work out what to do.

SPEAKER_00 27:08

It kind of went towards the end, um, with obviously the the sequence with uh Mahershula Ali and his flair, kind of went a little bit apocalypse now for me, basically, more in a visual point of view than than any any narrative point. But um, I actually interviewed um the cinematographer John Matheson, who told me that they basically uh weren't exactly sure as they were filming it what to do with Mahershula's character, i.e., would he survive or not? And I kind of think you can sort of see that because it I've I've seen a lot of people say, Oh, the ending it it it it came a little too abruptly. And I didn't really feel that when I watched it a second time around, but I can sort of see you know Mahershula kind of returning, you know, having survived. It wasn't it was a slightly clunky moment in the story. It was kind of like, oh right, his story did survive, even though the flare, you know, went out, and then he's got another flare. And you know, I did that didn't quite work for me as an ending. Frankly, I would have not that I disliked him as a character, and I certainly thought his performance was great, but it would have been an amazing sacrifice, if you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_01 28:14

If he you know I I do get because I've heard that Gareth said that so I think it was scripted with two endings of you know, so from concept, Kepp didn't know what to do, um, or he gave the option essentially for for Maherschla to survive. And I think when, or Duncan, the character before he was cast as Maherschla. And I wonder whether having Mahershler Alley in the film swayed uh the fact that we can't have this actor for one film. If we want to bring him back, we can't.

SPEAKER_00 28:45

Well, that's it. He will obviously be a great character to bring back, so that's probably what they were thinking about more than is it a good ending, is it not a good ending?

SPEAKER_01 28:52

But yeah, I quite like the idea that I like I've heard people say about the fact that he all the way through the film, it's leading us up to the fact that he is gonna sacrifice himself, even before you know it's gonna happen. He's he stays on the boat when it crashes, um, he's kind of confrontational with the father in the sense that he's uh taking his children into peril. Um, you know, why isn't he looking after his children? You know, we learn that he's lost his child. And so it's and all the things of him saying, I'm not gonna die in the jungle, I think is one of his lines. And so all the way through you just think he's gonna die at the end of this. And so I quite like the fact that the sacrifice is sort of robbed from him. That it's uh the the the the the uh the kind of heroic nature of Zora and uh Duncan, they're very much broken characters in this through prev through the work that they do and the lives that they lead, they they can't leave and lead a normal life. And so uh Zora's arc is to uh forget about the money and forget about herself, but to think more um widely. And Duncan is is um you know, he needs to let go that that anger and that that grief of losing his son. And so it's nice the fact that he can do that and and live.

SPEAKER_00 30:12

I think that's yeah, that's that's kind of what I uh what I took from and let's face it, his other boat mates all get chomped fairly quickly, so you it would kind of not be that great if all four of them went down, basically.

SPEAKER_01 30:26

Yeah, I think in terms of the cast, it's got it's a stacked cast, you know, of big talent, you know, Jonathan Bailey, Scarlett Johansson, and Mahersha Raleigh. Did they bring the star power and kind of energy that you expected going in?

SPEAKER_02 30:42

I mean, honestly, I felt like they kind of were allowed to disappear into their characters a bit, where I didn't feel like I was seeing Black Widow on the island kind of thing, or you know, um uh Fiero on the island, you know, from Wicked or anything like that. So I mean, you know, they're they're good enough actors where I felt like they didn't let that kind of I guess you would call it ego, even though I don't think they're ego-centric actors, but you know, like sometimes those kind of actors are to, you know, or they play themselves like the rock or something. But I think in this case they were able to just be their own unique characters and you know, they just use their their good acting. I will say though, and I don't know if this is how you guys feel about it, I feel like the first like 20 minutes of the movie after the prologue bit are like really glacial and pacing to me. And I I know that they're setting up new characters and the new direction of the story, but I don't know. I just the first time I watched it, especially, I was like, oh no. Like I felt like it was just going a little, a little too slow up until the moment when the yacht gets attacked by the Mosasaur, the family's yacht gets attacked by the Mosasaur, then I felt like okay. And there was like more moments that worked for me after that. But like, I don't know. I like I feel like the little conversation uh with um Scarlett Johansson's character and Marshall Ali, like even that, I felt like there was too many long pauses, or was this something got missed in the editing? I felt like that's I don't know if you guys agree with that or not.

SPEAKER_00 32:18

No, I have to say I didn't really think that because I actually quite liked the beats that they allowed the character. I'm look, it's it's an action-adventure movie. You're never gonna have reams and reams of character development and dialogue, but and you know, looking at it bluntly, the the stuff about uh um Zora having lost her partner on her last mission and and what you just said, Roland, about um Duncan's kind of lost child and everything, you know, yeah, it it's fairly signposted kind of emotional beats here. Yeah, it's it's not particularly subtle work from Kent, but I thought there were there were moments that at least allowed the characters to breathe. Again, with the family uh on on the yacht, you know, the fact that the this boyfriend has tagged along and he's kind of annoying, and you know, the the father's obviously trying to impress his daughter, I suppose, on on his teenage daughter, or at least clickate her on some level. I thought there was kind of enough character development there. I didn't find it too slow. I was kind of like, as you said, they've got to set these these guys up. We don't know who any of these people are. And yeah, so I I I didn't find it, and I, you know, just to go back to what you were saying about Star Power, I thought Scarlett was terri terrific in this movie. I I mean I you know, I've always I you know, I kind of like the the Marvel movies, so she's always been very good at Black Widow, uh just playing Black Widow, you know, but I just thought she was perfect for this. You know, she brought that a little bit of that action heroine, you know, vibe, but I felt that she was quite a real character, just kind of world weary, yeah, you know, mercenary as as she gets called at one point. Yeah, I really just yeah, just thought she was, you know, she handled the action really, really well. She just had a sort of certain cynical vibe about her. You know, Bailey Bailey was great in that, you know, well, kind of half Malcolm, half Alan Grant role, whichever way you want to look it. But and Maherschal is was very good as as Duncan. But yeah, I really thought she led the line. And I I suppose it's the fact that we all know she's a massive Jurassic fan. I think that probably put her put me on side with her as well. It's like, yeah, this is someone who really wants to be here. It's not a paycheck job here, obviously. She she's and I I thought that really shone through. I thought she just really loved being on that set. And apparently, from what people have said, she was like, you know, as they say, number one on the cool sheet. They were in horrific conditions in Thailand, in the jungles, you know, leeches and snakes and god knows what else they were dealing with. And she she was apparently a real trooper. So which again, none of that is to do with what you see on screen, but I think it just shines through that she was a proper leader, like offset and and what I suppose onset off camera, and then actually on screen as well. I think that really shows through that she's you know, there's that bit when they when they land after the boat crashes on the island, and she's she's not playing the hero here. She's like, right, let's get in, let's get out, you know, let's not screw around, basically. And I don't know, I really believed her as this kind of you know, we're taking control. Yeah, exactly, taking control. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:21

She's almost like Manic, like in certain places. Like you feel like she's in such this difficult situation, but it feels like that's where she really thrives. It's the other parts of her life that are where she doesn't. Like she loves throwing herself off the cliff uh just when they're going to get the Ketzel Coatlas DNA and stuff. She's just it's right, it's just just like being.

SPEAKER_00 35:41

She goes like this is fun, as she's like absailing down the enormous rock that Bailey's having trouble with.

SPEAKER_01 35:47

Yeah. And I I think they they all feel like they've got good chemistry with each other. Like it feels like a natural um relationship that they all have on on on camera. They all feel quite connected, which is really nice to see. You know, I think part of my issue with the the last three Jurassic World films was sometimes the how the characters talked and acted to each other was always to try and drive that plot forward or to give the audience some information rather than actually sitting down and you thinking that you were watching two people having a chat who knew each other, who really cared about each other. And y they are big signposty moments in in in the film, but with Dominion and uh Fallen Kingdom, I think Claire and Owen's relationship, which should have been the strongest throughout those three films, sort of dissolves as as the films go on. You don't see a a sense that they are because those films are so massive, it doesn't allow itself the time to actually get us invested in their relationship because they're off on another dino adventure in about 30 seconds.

SPEAKER_00 36:55

Well, yeah, the first film the the Trevaro film really did that. The first Trevaro film really I thought did that very well. It had that sort of scrubble romantic comedy vibe. Exactly. And you're right, it kind of romancing the stone. Yeah, exactly. And it kind of gets lost, you're right, in Fallen Kingdom and Dominion, particularly.

SPEAKER_01 37:10

Did you think so the the design of the film and maybe Gareth Edwards' vision for Jurassic? Because I've and and and David Kepp as well, they they have been touted amongst fans, and in the lead up to this, you know, David Kepp being wheeled out, not wheeled out, but oh my god, what happened? Strode out um uh to to talk to it's interesting having a a script writer so front and centre in all the marketing for a film. Um, and I think they knew that fans and people, you know, this is a return to form. And then getting somebody uh like Gareth with his visual style felt uh felt perfect, really. You know, do you think they delivered in what you expected in it expected from them?

SPEAKER_00 37:55

Yeah, I think so. I mean he's uh I couldn't literally if you'd said right, here's every Alice director working in Hollywood today, who would be the best choice? And given he did Godzilla, then he did a Star Wars movie, then obviously he had his own, you know, very imaginative sci-fi with the creator. To me, it just felt like he'd been building up to making a Jurassic film. It it I it couldn't have been better, and he can well kept said something to me which is is spa on. He just said Gareth can handle scale, and he can. I mean, you know, the those last three films are huge, and he's not daunted by scale. And yeah, he I couldn't think of when I heard it was Edwards meets Kepp, I was like, Well, that couldn't be better, really. Someone suggested the other day uh to me that they'd love to see like going forward, this is not gonna happen, obviously, but going forward, who who would who would be amazing to do it next? And they said, Well, what about James Cameron? Given that he had originally bid for the to do the original movie and and got picked to the post by by Spielberg. Now, obviously Cameron doing an R-rated Jurassic, I think we'd all be in in line for that one. But outside of him, I can't think of anyone that's better than Edwards. And yeah, I think he does deliver. I don't think it's just uh you know a generic dinosaur movie. I think there is plenty of his I mean he's just so good with set pieces. I mean that I I mean while I mentioned the Titanosaur sequence where we all had our you know a lump in the throat in the the Mosasaur sequence at the beginning in the in the first third of the movie, I literally was watching it and my heart was pounding at points uh on that first viewing because it was that exciting. And I'd seen you know, we'd all seen the trailers, and there are bits and pieces in the trailers, and I'd seen a couple of other little sequences as well. But yeah, that w when it's all put together and it's just you know barreling past you on the screen, yeah. My heart was kind of leaping out my chest. And I thought, well, given that and the lump in the throat moment, just taking those two sequences alone, let alone the T-Rex River blast, that's three incredible sequences that have their own distinct flavour. And he nailed each one of them, really. I mean, you know, the the the the the cave aerial sequence, you know, I I could have it's not quite as exciting. And then we just talked a little bit about the finale, which you know, I had my issues with the D-Rex, which maybe we can come on to in a minute. But generally speaking, though, just for those three sequences alone, he actually nailed well, him and the editor, of course, and everyone else involved, actually nailed those sequences.

SPEAKER_01 40:38

Yeah, but I I I I love the the the water sequence and the fact that it's a sort of new environment for a Jurassic film. I imagine from conception they knew that this was coming out in the summer of the 50th anniversary of Jaws. And so it is just baked into the script and all of the visuals, particularly there's a moment where the sun is rising, it's dawn, and we get the boat going across the sun rising, and just think this is it could be the orca going across this water at the moment.

SPEAKER_02 41:09

Maybe some of the dialogue, like uh like it's my my my boat or whatever, I forget the exact exchange, but it's my charter and he says it's my boat.

SPEAKER_01 41:19

Yeah. And he's like he's like leaning against the deck and he's having his morning coffee as the sun rises. And it's allowing those uh just those visuals those really strong vigils and letting he knows I think Gareth also knows how to let a location work. So uh the fact that this film was uh filmed a lot on location, I think that enhances this so much because it feels so we real, you know, it's it's hot, it's sweaty, it's uh and the fact that you think at any corner you could just stumble across a dinosaur. And I like the fact that um when Xavier knocks down a load of trees, you know, really noisily, and you don't even see the dinosaur that he disturbs, but it's absolutely massive and it you know leaves. And you just think, yeah, it it feels I could I can honestly believe there being dinosaurs in this place.

SPEAKER_02 42:13

And even the like the small little amphibious looking creatures that you see in the background almost felt like a Star Wars movie where you're like trying to see what's in the background all the time, that little thing, little Easter eggs almost could be there just to kind of enhance the world a bit. But I mean, like I still like you guys were saying earlier, I do love that they do take the the time to have some quiet moments. Um, because like I said, I do like having characters like expanded upon, you know, kind of like when Rashaly, you know, after he crashes after the big Mosasaur sequence, there's that little moment where he pulls out the picture of his son, you know, from the dashboard or whatever, and he's like, you know, we made it kind of thing. And I'm like, you know, just little moments like that I think do add up, which is great. Or even like the the scene right after the yacht gets attacked by the Mosasaur, you know, it's at night, and we have Scarjo sitting, you know, at the edge of the boat, and she just has tears in her eyes. And then, you know, Bailey comes out and you know, talks to her, and we get a little bit more about her. In a way, I kind of feel like that's where more of that story should have come out, but that's just me. Um, but either way, that was still just like a really great little moment that I think really adds to you know her character. And this it does get well paced again in my mind, after you know, when all that's going on.

SPEAKER_00 43:29

I guess on some level, if these three actors return for the sequel, which one would assume they would, you'll learn more about their backstories, perhaps, you know, in a in a subsequent adventure as well. So then, you know, again, I guess we'll come on to this, but where on earth this franchise is going after this episode, I cannot tell. But yeah, but you know, hopefully they will expand a little bit, you know, and they will become huge parts of the Jurassic mythology, just in the way Owen and Claire were and obviously you know the the OG characters were as well. So yeah, I think you know it's a it's a an incredibly promising start, I thought. Uh it'll need a very, very clever writer, uh, you know, to to give us something fresh to you know to sort of continue on this rebirth, but um it is a very promising start, definitely.

SPEAKER_01 44:22

Yeah, and so if we talk about the new thing of this film, which sort of new, I suppose we've had hybrids, but we've never had mutants. And we have the D-Rex and we have the mutadons. Did they work in adding anything new to the series for for both of you?

SPEAKER_02 44:38

Well, not not really, honestly. And I only say that because I I love their designs, I think they're design great, they look really freakish and weird and interesting. So it's not really about that. It's just you know, they're kind of not even really part of the movie except for the beginning and the end. And that's what I think is kind of odd. It's like, why would we set this up as like a major thing when it's really not even, you know, throughout the movie? And and they even talk about on the beach, like, oh, all the dinosaurs here are freakish things are left behind. It's like, well, no, not really, just those two. Yeah, like everything else is kind of just normal-ish dinosaurs. Um, yeah, they're scary ones, but you know, they're not like freakish mutants. So I think they kind of set up like expecting more of that than what we actually got. So then that way it was a little disappointing. And like, we'll even know that the D-Rex is called the Distortus Rex. We never see it labeled that way or hear the name. It's just D-Rex the whole time. Yeah, with the mutadons, we see their name on the embryonic chamber or whatever. Um, but I don't know, and that's the thing that leads into well, I won't go too far, but that's why for me the movie lacks lore because it's like, what what was this mutant? Like, what were they trying to do with it? What's the purpose of it? You know, we never learn anything, and that's just kind of disappointing. And it, even though I do I did warm up to the movie quite a bit, that things like that still remain disappointments to me because they're just not in the movie.

SPEAKER_00 46:07

Yeah, I mean, I can't really add anything to that. I agree a hundred percent. Um, particularly this thing of having them at the beginning, which again, that sequence at the beginning is obviously a nod to the original Jurassic Park with the worker kind of pulled into the Raptor Cage. Yeah, I mean, I I don't know. We can whatever we think about the Snickers rapper, I'm sorry, but absolutely no scientist would just discard as a rapper in in a you know in a in a sort of highly contained, you know, controlled environment. But anyway, we can we can overlook that. Yeah, yeah, terrible. But you're quite right. I mean, the fact that you get them at the beginning and then nothing really in the middle of the film, and then they just sort of pop back at the end, that didn't really do it for me. And you're right, it it could have worked better if we'd had perhaps more at the beginning, some kind of white coat lab assistant explaining more about these characters. Because I'm assuming, by the way, is it's supposed to be what 17 years before? So it's obviously what ahead of the new the new park that gets open in Jurassic World, not obviously ahead of the original Hammond park, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 47:18

That's what's confusing though, because there's two conflicting bits of dialogue in the movie. So, like early on, I think it's in the New York stuff, Krebs says, Oh, it was R D for the original park. He says, original park, but then on the beach scene on the island, he talks about oh, the theme park makers were wanting to appease to their audience, and so they made these mutant things. Like, okay, well, that's clearly addressing like the world era stuff. So I'm like, it can't be both, or is it both? It's a little bit more.

SPEAKER_00 47:47

I think it has to be RD for the park that ultimately opened, not like because otherwise we'd we'd be talking 30 plus years ago, whatever it is. So I think when you say original park, he presumably really meant the original park that actually opened rather than the park that went wrong that never opened. But yeah, it's a little it's a little confusing. Um but yeah, we could have done with a sort of you know, a scientist type character to give us a little more about the the mutadons, etc. Maybe we'll get that more in the second one, who knows? You know, maybe that's where the series will go with those creatures somehow escaping, or we'll see.

SPEAKER_01 48:27

They they don't really give them to because uh the moment that the distorts arrives at the end, Krebs, who is the only person who might know what it is, has already escaped and he's on his way to the dock. So he's the only character that that could conceivably say this is whatever it is, this is what it is, and it ex you know, expect because he knows that there was an accident because he mentions it or alludes to it on the sh on on the boat. But he um yeah, so they kind of paint themselves in a corner that they can't explain it because they got nobody realistically that at that point for our characters and the the the the the the eyes of us as an audience to actually yeah just give give across those basic bits of information.

SPEAKER_02 49:08

Yeah, it's that's what makes me not know where they're gonna go with this, because I mean I feel like in a way it's almost written in the corner because now they've basically killed off all the dinosaurs except for the ones in you know the equatorial regions and specifically on this island uh for the most part. And you know, so okay, there we're isolated dinosaurs again. We're just getting away from the island with dinosaurs again. And the only real plot thread that I can see forward involves like the the cure that they have obtained. And because I know Kreb said in the beginning of the movie um that there's other competitors, apparently, and that you know the owner of the company really, you know, wants it, you know, like really quick and everything. He's I think it was Miss Parker, actually. Yeah. So I mean, but the thing is, but then is it really about the dinosaurs anymore? That's the thing that's weird. And it's like, I mean, I kind of don't mind that. I mean, I was one of the few people that didn't didn't hate the locust stuff from today. I like the locust stuff.

SPEAKER_00 50:13

I didn't mind the locust stuff, I have to say, on record there. I thought that was kind of cool. I think I would kind of think maybe now they'll just go for like some sort of ER medical drama with with dinosaurs in the background as they race to find this cure for for heart disease. But yeah, I I I think you're right. It could be could turn into some kind of corporate espionage tale where there are, as you say, battling companies. But that's about all I can think of, really.

SPEAKER_02 50:36

But yeah, but people want that, but like the audience is what I'm like concerned about, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 50:40

I mean, I wouldn't mind, but I feel like you know, the audience that they're trying to appeal to, I don't think that would yeah, you've still got to have that those action sequences, and you've still got to have I always I think currently, and I c I heard this um on another podcast or somebody talked about this, but the fact of Jurassic, you know, even though the marketing gave you pretty much the whole film before you film came out in the adverts, the it hasn't hurt the box office at all for it because I think people I think the only way to say a Jurassic Park film is on is in in in in the cinema. I that is literally the only only way that you can see this properly. And I think uh it's the experience of sitting in a cinema and seeing a dinosaur at that size. And so it's uh it's almost a plot is lower down to experience for the audience. I think as a sort of like generalization of people going to see the film that aren't massive uh super fans, it's that adrenaline rush. And it's similar to like Top Gun Maverick. I can't think of the plot for Top Gun Maverick, but I remember watching it and having an amazing time because you can't tell people what it feels like to sit down and say, Oh, Tom Cruise did this amazing stunt, he did all these like you can't you can't give that to somebody unless you see it yourself.

SPEAKER_00 51:59

And the problem is, do we go back to another island story, which is clearly where the best of those movies have worked, no question. I mean, even you know, we all probably have different opinions on the Lost World and the San Diego sequence. I kind of enjoyed it, but you know, it there's something different when they put the dinosaurs on the mainland, whether it's San Diego or or elsewhere, it doesn't work quite as well. And I can't really put my finger on why it's just something to do with that jungle-like terrain of an island. It's it's a kind of well, you're isolated on an island, you can't really escape unless you find a boat or something or a helicopter. And helicopters obviously, as we know, get swatted out of the sky. So yeah, I i I don't know. It'll be interesting if they do continue with this medical story, whether we we go back to the to the mainland now, you know, presumably the states and or maybe go somewhere completely crazy that they haven't been in before, like I don't know, Asia or something, you know? And you know, a totally different kind of landscape. But obviously, like you said, they've put back themselves into a corner about the fact that the that the creatures are now mainly in this equatorial region. Difficult. I mean, they could probably ride away out of that one. I mean, climate change or something, you know. Yeah, maybe a different landscape might help, but I don't know. There's something about doing it on the mainland that doesn't work quite as well, or at least it didn't work. I mean, in a way, Dominion, it wasn't an island, it was a valley, effectively, where Dodson's you know, biosin uh compound was, but it's kind of like an island, isn't it? It's more like one, yeah. There's nowhere to escape. And Fallen Kingdom, it was kind of like an island in the sense that it was this contained space of the house. Yeah. So you need some form of a contained space to make it work.

SPEAKER_02 53:47

I'm just worried now that they're they're kind of going in circles. You know what I mean? That's that's I mean, yeah, I get it. Like, yeah, and that's um because I know we're we're you know, if they do another movie, it'll be the eighth movie, so obviously that's gonna happen. But then I don't know, the the lore enthusiast in me is screaming like, oh, what do I make of all this anymore? How many islands are there? Like you said, James.

SPEAKER_00 54:11

Well, look at what they did with Star Wars, whereas I thought they did a pretty damn good job for number seven, i.e., the Force Awakens, yeah. Clearly did not have a proper plan as to how to carry on that story beyond seven, uh, and they really screwed it up, basically. Now, of course, they've kind of revived it by using TV uh you know, you know, shows and so forth on Disney Plus, but they really need to think carefully. I think the one thing is here, you've got Spielberg and Ket still very much interested in carrying on this story. Now, whether they are gonna be writers on it, yeah, and Frank Marshall too, and Pat Crowley. So, yeah, you know, the the I think the the guardians of this franchise are the people you want to be in charge, but they still want to come up with good ideas, and you know, who knows?

SPEAKER_02 54:55

Maybe they'll Well, who knows what they'll do? We'll see. I was just gonna say my my uh amusing idea from the Outpost podcast that I said um before was okay, so the beginning of the sequel is they're in the boat, and then the Mosasaur comes out of the water, makes them go back to the island, so we're just immediately back on the island.

SPEAKER_00 55:14

Like a tractor beam is pulls them back in.

SPEAKER_01 55:17

Yeah, like a tractor beam. I I like the idea. Um this is not mine, this is uh Caleb. He that using the uh kind of disused script from Jurassic Park 3 and the idea of Loomis being so in my mind from what Caleb said is you have Loomis going back to the island covertly without any assistance, a bit like Levine does at the start of um the Lost World novel to to research. He just wants to be he's traumatised by the event and needs more from it. And then on the mainland, you may have Zora and Duncan needing to lead that operation to try and keep the samples away from Parkogenics, but also the draw of trying to get Lumet off and who knows, whatever he might discover on that island, and maybe that the samples I think in the outpost thing that they're maybe they're not safe. There's something that's on this island that is not good. And I I I still think about the the DX virus from the Lost World novel and the fact that that could get out, and so I I you know if you're going back to the books, there are a few things like that that can still or unused script ideas that can still come out to play, maybe in the future.

SPEAKER_00 56:34

Are you saying you don't want the John Sayles script uh that was never made uh brought brought in as number eight? I mean, it's got some crazy shit in it. Some people do want that.

SPEAKER_01 56:44

I know, yeah. Some days I'd take that. It's a shame that Roger Corman's no no longer around because I think that would have been right up his street.

SPEAKER_02 56:51

The mutant human dinosaur hybrids, yeah. Or um some people uh have also joked and said, Oh, Dolores is actually carrying the DX virus, little do they know, and she's gonna infect everybody now that she's off the island.

SPEAKER_00 57:06

I haven't really looked into this, but I was sort of I'd forgotten that there's a character in Dominion called Delgado, I think, as well. It's quite a brief mention. I think it's like a politician or a commissioner or something. I may be getting that wrong. Oh, Fallen Kingdom, yeah. Is it Fallen Kingdom? Sorry. Um are they supposed to be related or is this just something to wine fans are? Probably the latter. Probably yeah.

SPEAKER_01 57:28

Yeah, they probably don't even think that that that anybody will make those connections, probably. Yeah. I mean, if they didn't know the River Ralph sequence was in the first book, then uh That's true.

SPEAKER_00 57:38

Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 57:40

Yeah, it's interesting. I wonder whether they're gonna bring back in any legacy characters again or whether we're just sticking with these three. I I feel like it's inevitable at some point that Ian Malcolm is gonna turn up again. There's a relationship between Scarlett Johansson and Jeff Goldblum and and Jonathan Bailey as well, because they're all in because he's in Wicked. So I just feel like it's inevitable at this point that Malcolm will crop up at some point.

SPEAKER_00 58:05

It kind of is, but that didn't didn't really work brilliantly in Dominion. I mean, it was nice to see them interact a little bit, but I don't know, it didn't quite do it for me in perhaps the way we'd all hoped. That's the problem with bringing legacy characters back. You have so many expectations. I guess a little cameo like he had in Fallen Kingdom would be fine. Yeah. But I don't know, integrating into the whole into the whole story, I'm I'm not sure. Oh well, we'll see. What about like you know, Jurassic World as in from the previous trilogy? Any of those characters, like uh Justice Smith's character, for example, or I want Lowry back from the first Jurassic World.

SPEAKER_01 58:44

You need some tech guy, don't you? Because that seems to be the second film that always has some sort of guy with more knowledge about tech or something about the island. So that's always a new character, seemingly comes into the second of all of the films. Almost a bit like Eddie Carr in The Lost World and Justice Smith in um in Fallen Kingdom. There's always those characters that suddenly crop up who don't like the environment that they're in at all.

SPEAKER_02 59:08

Well, that's why I think Lowry was supposed to come back. I think for Fallen Kingdom, he was supposed to be um he was supposed to be uh the character that goes with Claire to the now I'm forgetting his name, Justice Smith's character. Um but then he's also supposed to be in Dominion, like you said. Um but then he couldn't make it for scheduling reasons, so then they just used it.

SPEAKER_00 59:27

I think that was a COVID thing, wasn't it, or something, or something like that. Well, obviously, every as everything got affected on Dominion by COVID.

SPEAKER_01 59:35

I'd like I'd like if if they brought back Malcolm, I'd like them also to bring back Kelly. I feel yeah, I feel he works quite well when he's got somebody he can work against that like you know, that's a family member with Malcolm.

SPEAKER_02 59:46

I quite like Sarah Harding. I mean, she feels like right at home to go to this island and I mean she's kind of an adrenaline junkie too. Maybe, oh no, love triangle with uh Scarjoe's character, Sarah Harding and Henry Loomis.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:01

You know I have to say that's a good idea, it's a good shout though, because no one would really expect Julianne Moore's character to come back because she's not regarded with the same in the same breath as the main three characters. But yeah, why not? I think that's a really good idea.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:16

I mean, she's a fantastic actor.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:18

I think she's she's expressed she's wanted to come back too.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:21

So it's like well, I think you know, Scarlett, I think just get out there and and and start working on these people and get yeah and and and get and get them involved.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:32

She's a last world fan, prove it.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:34

Yes. Well, yeah, I was wondering if there was anything else that you wanted to touch upon.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:38

Are we gonna rank where we put rebirth? Let's do that. Oh no.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:42

Let's do that. So yeah, let's do our let's do our rankings now. So um James, do you want to go first?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:47

God, it is difficult because I'm gonna put it third behind Jurassic Park, obviously. I think that's gonna be obviously our number one, presumably for all of us. Um, and then I will go with Jurassic World as number two. So I'll put Rebirth as number three. Nice. And then from there. Oh god. I mean probably then it would be The Lost World, then it would be Jurassic Park 3, then Fallen Kingdom, then Dominion. I'm not forgetting anything. I'm like, that's the seven, right? Yeah, yep. All right, you've got you've got to do you both gotta do your seven now because I've done it.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:19

Yeah, I I think that's actually my list because it's Jurassic Park, and then also Jurassic World for me, which I know shocked some people on when I revealed that, but it's true. I I really do love it. Um and then Lost World, and then Rebirth, and then JP. Mine was slightly different because I had Rebirth, then Lost World. Oh, okay, yeah. No, I still I still have Lost World above rebirth, for me, for me at least. Yes, that's the one where it's different. But then um Fallen Kingdom and Dominion, they always though those are the two that always flip-flop for me, and like which one do I like more at the end? Because I do like all of them for different reasons, but but it's like Fallen Kingdom is like it's kind of like a Roger Corman movie, like you like you alluded to, like a Roger Corman with the budget and a little bit less violence, you know, because it's just such a goofy, insisting missing and decent price coming coming in at some point.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:12

I mean, it's it's funny because I never really you know vibed with Fallen Kingdom when I first saw it. But when you as you say, when you go back and analyze it more, there are some incredible sequences in it, such as the you know, the volcano eruption and Ted Levine's death in in the cave. One of the best deaths in the entire prancho. So Fallen Kingdom doesn't have anything about it, it's got a ton of great stuff in it. It just it's it's up against some really good movies.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:39

That's what it boils down to. Yeah, and it's in a weird blender of stuff. And then I love the the Brachiosaurus death was like the one of the few times where I actually did tear up watching, especially the first time I saw it. I because I didn't since I didn't went to the press screening for that one, I was not spoiled at all about that coming or anything, so it was just completely unknown. Thank goodness, because I was really, really happy about that. Um yeah, so I guess it would be Fallen Kingdom and then Dominion. But again, then I think of Dominion and the return of the original trio. So I'm like, oh, but I love that too, even though they didn't do it that well, but it they're still there, so it's still nostalgic and all that crap. So but anyway, that's my that's my rig.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:20

Nice. Um yes, mine's obviously Jurassic Park. Then I'm gonna throw a curveball. My next is Jurassic Park 3.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:28

Whoa.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:28

So that's my number two.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:29

I'm there with Joe Johnston will be happy to hear that.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:32

He will be, and and and and Daniel Stephen as well. Um it's it's the film that I really just just uh just i it hit in the same way when I watched it the first time as I did when I watched Jurassic Park. That feeling, the the the fact that the jungle feels more atoned to the original Jurassic Park. I like the humour, I like the even though that script is all over the place. There's some really great set pieces, and uh I can hear Alexander Payne's and uh Jim Taylor's voice all over that um script. And it's nice to have normal people on the island and not just uh mercenaries and all that sort of thing. I think that's why the family worked for me so well in this film. Because they felt like a a really good unit together, and actually they got stronger as the film went on. I really did like the first time I wasn't really annoyed by a child in a Jurassic Park film. Like they were all like even uh even Xavier, you know, I thought he's so annoying, but he just made the dad look even more normal and kind of in that he was just helping just trying to keep face and keep these keep everybody alive. And when he kicks people off the boat and he says, Come on, we've got to jump because these idiots are going to the going to this dyno island. We're not going, you know, we're not staying with them. And he makes that decision to take his family off and to go and save his uh his other daughter. Um so yeah, I that's why um Jurassic Park 3 is my number two. Then it's probably Rebirth. Rebirth is probably my number three after that, and then The Lost World, then Jurassic World. Actually, it's probably Fallen Kingdom, then Jurassic World, then Dominion. I really I was so muted with uh Jurassic World when I first saw it. I think I've still not got over myself what waiting 14 years for Jurassic Park 4. I feel I've got there now with Rebirth. Rebirth does feel like that. Film that I was almost expecting would happen after Jurassic Park 3, the tone and feel of it all. But yeah, Jurassic World just I I uh there's some I think it really picks up when you get to when the raptors get out and it's at night and the raptors are scary, and I like the reveal that the Indominus has raptor DNA of it, and then they all turn round. I love that sequence and I love the fight at the end of the Mosasaur, that's all great. But it just didn't it's it's well straight out of the way. The Vintage Hollywood feels like it's just a weird moment when he grabs um Claire Deering and gives her a kiss. Like really like pulls her in firmly, and you just think, I can just hear Max Steiner like swelling up behind them or something. There's something, you know, something going on. And it just I felt uh that just took me out of that that moment in the film.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:19

But I think you have to have a like an appreciation of like romancing the stone style of humour, which I do. I mean, I understand not it's not for everyone, and especially to put that in the Jurassic movie, maybe was too far for people. So I I get that. But I I just thought it was a lot of things.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:35

No, I do get romancing of the stone reference. Yeah, definitely and you know, in in Indiana Jones as well, isn't it? Yeah, it's very coded through that film. Um, all three of them, really. Yeah, Fallen Kingdom was the only one I saw once in the cinema and didn't really love the first time. Dominion, I wanted to love it. I was looking at the screen and saying, I want to love you. I want to love you more than I do because I'd waited so long to see Alan Grant back and Sam Neal. I have such a connection to that character. And to see I don't know, it just didn't like the bit where he's they're talking about cinnamon and putting cinnamon on his latte and his flat white. I was just like, Can you be talking about dinosaurs, please? I'd much rather than you talked about that.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:18

I I think that's the thing with like um any first viewing is usually pretty bad for me because it's like you always if you're a fan of something and you're going into it, you're gonna have expectations no matter what. Even if you try not to, they're still in the back of your mind subconsciously. So I feel like every time I see a new Jurassic movie, I'm always initially a bit disappointed. You know, some people don't go back to it after that disappointment, though. They don't give it a second chance or whatever. Um, I always do for Jurassic, but I understand why some people don't. Um, so some people never do get to get over the hurdle, but you know, all of us seem to have, you know, given them rewatches and to you know appreciate them for what they are instead of what we played.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:01

Well, that's also the problem of having one of the great films of all time as the first film in the franchise. No film will ever match up to that first experience. And it's not just that Spielberg turned out a brilliant okay. My slightly embarrassing story about Jurassic Park, if you like, was that when I saw it in '93, just as a you know, I was at university at that point, I just went to see it like everyone else. And I came out of that going, well, it wasn't as good as Jaws, which it isn't because Jaws is an incredible masterpiece. Jurassic is, you know, just behind it. But I wanted another Jaws at that point because I was obsessed by Jaws as a as a young man. So at the time at the time I I kind of like didn't appreciate its its brilliance. Then I went back to it uh a lot later, and then I kind of thought, oh yeah, actually, it is pretty good, isn't it? Um, but at the time I, you know, and now of course I still don't think you're never gonna get that experience uh uh to match up to that first film, I think for most people, because it's also that thing of seeing well, obviously, what were part animatronic, part CG dinosaurs at that point, that was just brand new for everyone to see that kind of you know, obviously there'd been dinosaur movies before, but just kind of cheesy ones really, not in the same way. So it was so visceral. I think that was that moment of oh my god, special effects are changing, this is the new world, and it's yeah, it's become like that ever since. So you'll never match that experience. So hence I fully understand you, you know, Derek, not having anxiety ahead of everyone. It's always gonna be a little tough, it's never gonna match up to the original. Um, I mean, Star Wars is kind of the same. I mean, if you look at Star Wars and maybe take Star Wars and Empire Strikes Back as the they're kind of they're not the same film, obviously, but they're the first two, they're never gonna touch those movies in whatever you know, they're just not. You know, I thought Force Awakens did did do that to me. It kind of churned me up. I saw that three times in the cinema in quick succession, but then they blew it by doing the next two.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:11

Well, I I I'm I've uh again, um I love The Last Jedi. That's probably my one of my favourite Star Wars films, um, probably after the you know, New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back. It's just because again, I think I get attached to certain directors and get a kind of idea of their vision, and I really like the ripping up of nostalgia of of the of The Last Jedi. Fans really, you know, a lot of fans really didn't, but I I quite like going into a film and somebody going, Oh, you thought we were gonna do this? Oh, hang on a minute, I'm just gonna toss away your dreams like Luke does his lightsaber. And I uh uh you know, the fact that he does the you know the calling back to uh the you know seven samurai, the idea of the you know yo jimbo, that sort of thing. That's the kind of character uh that that Luke kind of in inhabits in that film. But uh yeah, so I get you know the idea that people with this film, Rebirth, you know, some fans have really dis disliked it. I've I've heard from from a few. They really I heard on you know Outpost podcasts that certain people were very down on it.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:21

Well, yeah, you only had to look at the the reviews were crazy, they were all over like Rolling Stone absolutely hated it. They called it like a really generic movie, blah, blah, blah. Um, the Telegraph in the UK, you gave it five. Um, and you know, I I was sort of somewhere in between in terms of rankings, but I mean, I think I gave it four, but I saw, you know, I've seen you know, all five as in a five different stars kind of ratings. It's gone all over the place. And I think that's kind of cool because yeah, it's not for everyone, but for those it works for, it really works. I mean, yeah, I kind of would assume most Jurassic fans, like hardcore Jurassic fans, would dig it because it's an exciting, you know, it brings the, but maybe not. Maybe you tell me, Derek, you probably are more tuned into that than I am.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:07

Yeah, I mean, I I've seen it very much in the middle, like you're saying with the critics. Like, even um, if even if you look like on the RT audience score right now, it's only like in the 70s, which is lower than a little bit lower than Dominions, actually, which is kind of shocking. I think again, it comes to expectations, and not only that, we're doing expectations for a series that is now seven movies in. You have different age groups of people that grew up with different movies in the series first. Like some people grew up with Jurassic World as their first entry point into the series, and they have different expectations than people who are Jurassic Park fans, I think.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:44

Yeah. Um, and I think those films were quite lore-heavy and having a story that they could continue, you know, with Henry Wu and all of that stuff. It was Colin very much was about world building out, you know, making it bigger and bigger and bigger, and you know, connecting threads and all that sort of thing, which Rebirth does everything possible to not do that. It doesn't want to touch anything that was, you know, it doesn't want to and you can kind of get where Kep was coming from because if you look at you've got six films, you're like, Well, I'm definitely gonna piss somebody off, so I'm just gonna go back to that first film and the books and go, right, that's what I'm playing with here. The the rest of it, yeah, I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:23

Do you think that's why we get very early on the objects uh in the mirror sequence in a Krebs car, and then you see the banner falling down? It's a bit like, All right, here are a couple of Easter eggs for you. That's it. We're not gonna do any more Easter eggs after this.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:38

Yeah, I think so. And I've heard that Spielberg wanted them to remove there was more in in the film, but during editing, he asked some. It's a note that I've heard him give to other people who he's executing a producing a film of you know, a sequel of his, he'll ask, just dial it back on the reverence for me, please. You know, and it makes sense. You can see why he would want to do it because he knows what audiences alike.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:02

You know, there's a lot of like um background history on this movie. You know, it would be really nice if uh if someone you know here who's written other uh Jurassic Park history books before, if if they you know gave him the task to do a new book about the history of of rebirth, maybe. I mean, I'm I'm just throwing that out there for whoever's listening.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:24

No, I mean I did speak to the the publishers of the of the previous books, and I think they want to see, wait and see if it becomes a trilogy, because obviously that would then match the previous two books that I've done. Uh, you know, I did definitely want to do a one-off book, but in some respects it means well, it means waiting for at least another what five or six years, whatever it might be, however long it might take them to kick out another two movies. But yeah, it would be nice, wouldn't it? Uh to to deep dive into all that stuff.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:55

But I I think there was there's moments from because when I looked, because obviously I've been looking at your books incessantly over the past six six months, and when the when the apatosaur is lying down and it's in in the road in the in New York and it's got graffiti on it, I was like, I've seen that from the concept art in your book. And I was like, that's clearly somebody's been flicking through those books or you know, and looking at that as reference points for certain moments in this film, almost certainly.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:25

Well, I kind of hope that you know Universal and Amblin provide them all with you know a ton of you know artwork themselves, storyboards that I've probably never seen, that even you, Derek, have probably never seen. If they're not getting access to that kind of, you know, that kind of golden material. I don't know who is. I'd like to know.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:42

But yeah, I mean, um, in terms of like kind of back to what you were saying, Roland, about um, you know, people kind of being disappointed. Like, there's a friend that I know who's not like a huge Jurassic Park fan, and he saw it and he really did not like it. And I asked him why. And he said he really hated that they undid the dinosaurs being on the mainland thing. Um, even though he wasn't like a giant fan of Dominion, he still didn't like that they walked back on that. So I'm I have a feeling that's a part of why people don't like this one as much as we probably expected them to. Um in a way, it's almost like the Last Jedi effect, where you know it changed things and people didn't like, you know, their expectations being subverted, kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:29

I mean, in a way, you you don't need to have that line about oh, they've all they're all clustering around the equator now, because it's like they could still have this island that they go to and that the dinosaurs can still be all over the world. And like you say, that's kind of been changed now, and that's really only one line of dialogue effectively changed the entire well, it undid everything that the the the Trevaro trilogy did, which seems strange so hard to do to get it off an island. So hard to get them off the island or putting them back on an island or back in that region.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:02

I I really don't like the text at the start of the film. That's what I'm gonna say. I don't like text in film anyway. Well look at the same information. Exactly, it's completely redundant.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:12

You know, I think those have you seen Superman yet? The amount of text at the beginning of that film. Oh my god. Really? Yeah. I won't I won't spoil it because you guys haven't seen it, but my god, that makes Jurassic look nothing. So really that's shocking.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:27

It feels like a studio play because the film has everything that that text says. So it feels completely redundant. But I feel like people watching it were like, oh, but I had to wait 15 minutes to hear the bit about the equator line, or you know, Loomis explain what's going on because he does so when they're on the boat. You're just like, well, just let the audience they're clever people, they can they have ears. They can hear what people are saying. And I was just like, okay, I've heard all this. And then I suppose for you for people coming to it, once you've been given that information, then the next three scenes are all about giving you that information again. So I can see why it uh does land in that sort of way for people. That's why it feels that way, doesn't he? Yeah, maybe it's just drawn out because you you've seen it already. You've heard you know what's going on.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:20

They told us instead of showing up right.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:22

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:23

So a typical journalist question Do you think the film will do over a billion dollars?

SPEAKER_01 1:18:28

I don't know. I it it I think it depends on I've heard rumblings and rumors that it might get an IMAX uh release late in the summer um after Superman and everything has cleared out and Fantastic Four. And then Jurassic might come back for a limited run in IMAX, and I that might push it over the edge. I think they're gonna keep it like they did Dominion, keep it in the cinemas for as long as they can to make as as much money. But it also it it it was made for a lot less, so it doesn't have to do as much as well.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:02

It would just be nice if it did to match the previous three, and it and it certainly m deserves to. I guess we're in a slightly different uh landscape. I mean, I remember Dominion like keeping an eye on those figures because I guess I'd done the the the the Jurassic World visual history book and I was you know pretty invested obviously in Dominion being good because I'd read the script but hadn't seen it until the press screening two days before, and then all these horrifying reviews came out, at least in the UK. I can't I don't know about the States, but yeah, the the UK critics just ripped it apart. And I was like, it's not that bad, you know. And obviously, I I'd obviously spent all that time writing about it, and I, you know, I had an idea in my head what the film might be like, and I think it reasonably lived up to those expectations. I mean, yeah, there's definitely laws in it, you know. Let's face it, you could cut the sequence out where they go to well, it was shot in Malta, of course. The whole I was very disappointed with the underground dinosaur market, only because Oh really? Well, and I no, I love the idea of it, and having spoken to the guys that did the animatronics, I was like, oh my god, this sequence is gonna be incredible, it's gonna showcase all this amazing, you know, you're gonna see all these kind of cool dinosaurs in cages up closed, and there's that big fight that um Chris Pratt's character has and all that sort of stuff, and it's just over so quickly. And I don't know, it's just one of those things, it all just flashes past you really, really quickly. Um, but yeah, and I don't know, a lot of that sequence probably could have been cut and they just got straight to biosin. I don't know, but yeah, you know, nonetheless, I still kind of enjoyed the movie, so I was kind of invested in it doing well, and then every week just went up and up a little bit, and like you said, they kept it in the cinemas just to hit that billion dollar mark. And I was like, Yeah, you know what? They did care about that film hitting that marker. Um, because it was never gonna go way, it was never gonna touch what Fallen Kingdom or Jurassic World did, but it just got there, so it would be kind of nice if Gareth's film did the same. I mean, it's not good, it's not gonna hit it's not gonna hit a Minecraft movie numbers, for example.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:06

I mean, bizarrely, but yeah, I mean they're halfway there already, which is kind of it's not bad for two weeks, right? Yeah, no.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:14

Yeah, biggest opening of the year, I think, um uh outside of you know holiday. Worldwide, I think. Worldwide, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:21

Which is I don't I mean, honestly, that's what matters more than the domestic numbers, always about the domestic American dollars around here. But I mean, because yeah, it's doing I know it's doing better um you know, outside the US compared to Superman. Like I heard Superman flopped in China because I think Superman's very American-coded superhero, kind of like Captain America in a way. I mean, even his uniform is you know like an American flag almost kind of colors.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:50

Yeah, yeah. Dinosaurs, they're they're truly universal.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:53

Yeah. Made by Universal.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:56

Yeah. I love that line. Uh um, I'd just like to say thank you so much for joining me today. It's been really great fun. James, has your in interview with the with the cinematographer come out in the in the magazine?

SPEAKER_00 1:22:10

It's a very good question. It's actually in British Cinematographer magazine. I think it probably has just come out. So, yeah, if anyone wants to go out and buy a copy of British Cinematographer, my editor will be very happy. But John Matheson, I have to say, never interviewed him before. Obviously, he's well known for shooting Gladiator, Gladiator 2, and that guy is a character, I have to say. That he he was I mean, you'd have to be to work with Ridley Scott. With Ridley Scott on a regular basis, yeah. But yeah, he was he was great fun. Really, just I I kind of the first thing I said to him was, Well, you know, like was you we did you just want to kind of join the Jurassic franchise? Was that the kind of real ambition? He's like, No, I just like Gareth's films, and you know, he's just very blunt in in a very English way, and yeah, I enjoyed him very much. So, yeah, if you can seek out a copy of that, please do.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:58

And Derek, your your book in in invertiverse that is out, is out in the world.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:03

It's out there, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:05

How's how's how's how's it how's it um you know, fra fractured ankle or leg leg aside? Has it been nice getting the getting the book out there?

SPEAKER_02 1:23:14

Yeah, I mean the yeah, that that was the unfortunate thing with the fractured ankle. I wasn't able to do more like in-person ways to promote it than I had planned. I was able to do a little bit right before it happened, thankfully. And I was able to get into some local stores kind of thing. So that was that was nice. Um, yeah, I mean, and I have like the soundtrack out there now, too, even on CD now, which is crazy that I was able to make that happen. Um, there's like a service where you can do it on demand.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:40

You got a ton of merch going, right? I saw that online.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:43

Yeah, like I made like a little Zazzle store. I mean, honestly, I just did it because you know it didn't really cost anything up front to do it. So I was like, you know, why and why not have all this artwork and stuff, even by John Bell, the art director of Jurassic Park. So I'm like, well, I might as well use it and you know put it out there, even if people don't, you know, read the book. Yeah, no, I mean, and I've gotten feedback on the book so far, even from Roland right here. I got a nice review about it. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:11

I loved it. I really, I really did enjoy it. And particularly the the the invertiverse stuff. Um, no, no spoilers, but towards the end, I think that really I think it's a real emotional roller coaster. Um, where you get very invested in the characters and it feels like an Amblin like story. It feels of the late 80s or uh early 90s. That's exactly the story and the feeling of it. So yeah, congratulations on it.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:38

Well, no, Amblin are listening to this and they want to read it and uh then option it.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:43

Yeah, it was it was very Amblin coded for sure. Like that was not a not an accident or anything. I definitely, you know, was putting that kind of mindset while I was writing it all these years. That's the thing, and it's that was like 10 years in the making, so it's definitely, you know, I'm kind of I haven't been able to enjoy the aftermath uh of it as much because of the ankle stuff, but you know, it is kind of like a breath to just kind of say, okay, it's done, you know, the world, the world has it now, do with it what they will. I mean, I do I do hope more people kind of react to it, I guess, is all I'm really asking for at this point. Like, you know, what do people think of it, you know, good or bad, you know, just what how they feel about the experience of it. So hopefully I'll get more, you know, reaction soon. And there's you know, multiple ways to buy it. There's ebook, paperback, hardcovers. So, you know, I try to make you know affordable options, if you will. Almost like, you know, a cure for a virus for everyone. I open sourced it. So there you go. I tied it back to rebirth.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:43

And and and and where where where can people buy the buy buy the book?

SPEAKER_02 1:25:47

Uh the easiest way just to go to derekdavismedia.com because I mean, but you can find out like on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, uh basically anywhere you can buy books, you you can you can find it if you just search for it.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:57

Amazing. Well, yeah, I'd just like to say thank you very much for joining me today. And yeah, this is I'm nearly at the end of the road for for rebirth. I'm I'm nearly there. I've I've got one more episode to do, which will be my thoughts on what's coming next and a couple of other people's thoughts on what's coming next. But yeah, I'd just like to say thank you, both of you very much for joining me today.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:19

Pleasure. Thank you. Yeah, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:22

My huge thanks to both James and Derek for that conversation. As I said just then, next week will be the last episode of this Road to Rebirth series where I throw it forward and look at the possibilities for what a eighth Jurassic Park film will look like. I've asked the guests who have previously been on the podcast to record their thoughts. And so that is what next week's episode will be all about. It'll be me wrapping up these past five months and also looking forward to the future. Thank you very much for joining me so far. You can continue the journey on Instagram at road to rebirth pod. Email me your thoughts about the podcast, about the film, anybody you'd like me to talk to. I've had some amazing emails from people, so thank you very much and keep them coming. But for now, I'll just say thank you very much for listening and goodbye.