Jurassic 2025 - End of Year Special with Tom Jurassic and Conor O’Keeffe

To round out the year and to launch the brand new podcast look and name I am joined by Conor O’Keeffe and Tom Jurassic to chat all things Jurassic’25.

Tune in next week for part 2 with my interview with journalist Mark Newbold and a tease about the new upcoming 2026 season.

Thanks for all the support in 2025 and Happy New Year!

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Like this this program doesn't have to be doesn't need to to succeed in what it does, it doesn't need to be as good as it is. And yet it is. We've had Rebirth, the final season of Chaos Theory, and a brand new Jurassic World Evolution game. To help me unwrap everything we've had this year and to look ahead at what is to come in 2026, I'm joined by two returning favourites of the show, Tom Jurassic and Connor O'Keefe. Hello to both of you and thank you so much for joining me.

SPEAKER_00 0:59

Hello, I made it eventually. I am really sorry that there is this like massive glisten coming off of what is one of the Jurassic Park trading cards as well. I have no idea what is going on with that because then it's pointing towards it, but it is just glistening.

SPEAKER_01 1:31

Thanks so much for having us on, Roland.

SPEAKER_03 1:33

No, it's great. I just wanted to put this episode together and to really kind of kick back and look back at what 2025 has been a mad year. We kind of sort of were expecting a film and then suddenly that happened, and then we've had Chaos Theory, all so much stuff and potential for next year as well. If I come to you, Tom, first, mate, what what stands out for you as kind of out of all of that? What's the one bit of Jurassic content that you've really loved?

SPEAKER_00 2:04

Oh, interesting. I I knew exactly what my answer was going to be until you said the words really loved. Um I think probably Jurassic World Evolution 3. You know, I think the the new tools that have been added to the game really give fans so much more control than they've ever had before. And I'm sure we'll dive into it a little bit more. But stuff like the uh community workshop has really just added so much more depth to that game than I think any game in the evolution series has ever seen before.

SPEAKER_03 2:38

Nice, yeah. I mean, I still haven't I'm I'm consoless. I am somebody who has got uh Xbox 360 under my bed in my parents' old home. Um Operator Genesis was my last Jurassic game. Or actually, no, Jurassic Park the game on my iPad, first gen iPad. Um but yeah, no, we can dig into that a bit later. Um, Connor, what what about you?

Jurassic World Rebirth

SPEAKER_01 3:06

Yeah, so um I mean I love Jurassic World Evolution as a series. Like I was a massive, massive fan, especially of the first one with the Return to Jurassic Park DLC, Evolution 3. I've not played it that much, I've just not had as much time as I'd like to. And also, it is actually kind of overwhelming, like how big it is as a package this time around. Like the the new workshop and all of the modular building, the the new terrain, like because I'm like a perfectionist when it comes to creating these parks and stuff, and the detail I'm really detail-oriented, and I I'm scared of how much time I'm gonna sink into this game when I allow myself. So I haven't jumped into that as much as Tom. So for me, I guess the highlight of the year was probably rebirth, and I'm sure we'll talk a lot about the film itself, but there was a nice amount of kind of um hype around like the launch month, I'd say. It was a much truncated release schedule, obviously, but it was really cool um having all of those sorts of returning elements like um like David Kepp announced and stuff like that, and Return to the Islands, and it was it was a great film to speculate about because of the idea that he's gonna dive into aspects of the franchise's past. And so it as always, like like Brad says in the Jurassic Park podcast, it's the before is really fun, like before a movie comes out. Um I'm sure we'll talk about the movie itself, uh, but I did enjoy that whole period, and I saw it four times in the cinema and had a had a blast watching it in the cinema as well.

SPEAKER_03 4:41

Nice. Yeah, well, if we if we start with probably the biggest one is Rebirth, is a brand new film in the series. Um, how many times have you have have you watched it more recently? Have you gone back and watched it again?

SPEAKER_01 4:56

So I haven't seen it um on like home video or anything like that. Is that even the term anymore? Home video?

SPEAKER_00 5:03

Yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 5:04

Uh I watched it in yeah, I I watched it in like 2D three times and I watched it in 4DX. Um honestly, like I feel like that was the the best way of watching the film because it is truly a roller coaster ride uh when you watch it like that. Um so that was really, really fun. Uh but yeah, I've not I've not caught up with it again. I'm looking forward to though at some point, but I'm just I'm I need to look for like an excuse. Like I want to show it to someone for the first time or maybe watch it as part of the whole series kind of thing. But yeah, um Tom, how about you?

SPEAKER_00 5:37

Um I saw it once in the cinema, and then I think I've seen it twice on home release, um, kind of once, where I watched it, kind of gave it my full attention, and then the other time I just sort of put it on in the background, so I think I'm at three in total.

SPEAKER_03 5:58

Nice. I saw it I think three times in the cinema. I've watched it. So I watched it with my parents, and to get kind of their reaction to, you know, they they probably remember the last film, but only that it had like Sam Neil and that sort of stuff in it. And I think they enjoyed it a lot more as one that they could just sit down and watch, you know, just not need to know anything or think about what was going on, really. Um and I've watched it recently with the commentaries, so I've listened to both of the commentaries, which are really you know, to get a commentary on a Jurassic is really rare, but to get two and Gareth Edwards talking to two sets of different people is really interesting to dig into the sort of um the making of it just sounds utterly bonkers. And they're they recorded both of them back to back um before the film had even been released. So the stuff that they're talking about is just like, I don't even know what people are gonna make of this when it comes out. Um yeah. No, that's Tom's Tom's shaking his head.

SPEAKER_00 7:12

Tom shaking his head, yeah. Yeah. I'm still pretty apathetic, I would say.

SPEAKER_03 7:17

Yeah.

unknown 7:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:18

Is there one thing that what what's what's what's the big thing that for for you that maybe has made it a disappointing experience?

SPEAKER_00 7:27

I think it's just it's how disconnected it is. And I I think it kind of like when you watch it. So I I think when you watch it, you're kind of like, okay, we're on another island, okay, it's in-gen, um, oh, but it's kind of like retro in-gen again, what's going on here, and then none of it's really explained. And then kind of I guess more so hearing some of the decision making afterwards and hearing like, oh, it was it was in-gen just because people thought it had to be in-gen rather than there being a compelling reason for it, that kind of stuff is just soured, my opinion on it. I'm the the kind of person who I like when if it's meant to be a film that is in the continuity of other films, I like it to respect what's come beforehand. Um obviously, if you're a franchise like Terminator, for example, that's a bit of a nightmare. But I think with Jurassic up until this point, it was fairly easy to do that. And I I always say I feel like Jurassic World did a really good job of that because it didn't get everything perfect, but it kind of had its callbacks to the original.

SPEAKER_01 8:32

And then the inclusion of like woo and stuff was really good in Jurassic World.

SPEAKER_00 8:37

Like it felt really natural. Whereas I I feel like here, I I think I can sum it up by I saw the storyboards where it was our St. Hubert was the Biosyn facility, and I was just like, man, that would have been so much more interesting than what we got.

SPEAKER_01 8:51

Yeah, I think um those are all like I I definitely resonate with all of those points. Like it definitely feels that in in them stripping back a lot of the the kind of the the the world building, it it's it's kind of negatively affected the series as a whole in terms of where's it going next, how does it connect to one another, the way it kind of throws out the baby with the bathwater with the ending of Dominion is still like a really tricky point. I feel like I get enjoyment out of the film, and it's a shame it has to be this way, but like kind of watching it in a silo as this is a this is a Jurassic Park sequel that is it's just it's just got the vibe and the atmosphere of of a Jurassic Park film, and for me it really works on that level. It's like a Jurassic Park 3 cell like kind of rom. Um but yeah, it it's I I still really enjoy it as a film because of I I like the the production design, I think is amazing. The um the dinosaurs overall, like the Rex and some of the other kind of uh new yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:54

I love all the the the design of the creatures and it and uh the way when you when you think that they had six weeks or something to design those and get the toys, that's why there isn't a mutadon toy. It's because essentially the design was being made in post-production, so they just didn't have anything to give over to to the licenses or the to to make the get the um the toys of them. Um but yeah, I think uh I think he'd mentioned that he had about 60 concept artists on a Zoom call to try and work out and hash out all of these designs. And the D-Rex came really quickly, you know, and it was just like that that was it. But all the others were sort of you know up in the air, and Kepp had given a script that was that was not really touched very much from production at uh at all to what actually came um to the final film. So they just I mean they had just no time.

SPEAKER_00 10:52

They had and I think this gets to the crux of my issue, really, Roland, which is there was no rush. Like conceivably, yeah, Universal had Wicked on the cards, they had How to Train Your Dragon, there was no real need to rush into an immediate sequel for this franchise, but they did, and I feel like it's done a lot of harm to everything around it by them rushing into it and taking it in a certain direction, and I just think they they like that it doesn't make sense to me. I don't understand why they did that because if they'd taken that time to actually maybe do a few more revisions of the script to really lock in on some of the designs, we might have got an even better film, and that's the the thing I think is like actually when there was that big gap between Jurassic Park 3 and Jurassic World, I think when Jurassic World eventually came back, they really knew that they had to nail it, and you see that in a lot of the concept design, you know. I I think about I think it was from the Jaffa script where there was like the gyrosphere on the monorail rail with like a helicopter flying alongside it chasing one of the dinosaurs and that kind of stuff. They knew that they had to do something and they really spent a lot of time developing those concepts. Whereas here it kind of feels like, and I hate to say it, but it it really feels to me like we're going in the direction the Fast and Furious franchise went, which is they were so focused on hitting those box office numbers that they didn't think, oh, what is the way to store being in it? And I think I think that that franchise is now.

SPEAKER_03 12:27

Yeah, I I think that's kind of why Jurassic ended up where it was, was because I think they were meant to have a Fast and Furious film out in the summer, and they didn't, and they thought, right, okay, next summer's looking a little empty, so we need to have a film that will make us money. So that's how it sort of happened.

SPEAKER_01 12:47

But unbeknownst to seemingly everyone, that almost brings more it makes more sense, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_00 12:54

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:56

Yeah, so and they but kind of separate to that, they had Spielberg and kept working together kind of almost very secretively to just cook up a story and then just deliver it almost as trying. I don't know, uh like I obviously I wasn't in the room, but it feels like they were trying to like deliver a film as complete as they could so they could make that film as so there wouldn't be the messing about from the studio heads of that this is the film we're gonna make, I've got ket back involved, so everybody can kind of calm down and go, here is the film, this is what we're doing. Yeah, but there's also been a shift at the top of I think Universal as well, and they were very unhappy with the last Fast and Furious film, and also the last, you know, Jurassic World, you know, Dominion, even though it took a lot of money, they weren't happy with the way that people that it was that they it was kind of going, and she was just like, We need to be really careful of these films.

SPEAKER_00 13:56

The thing I find so ironic is the fact that somebody's been like, Oh, we need to be really careful, and then we got rebirth.

SPEAKER_03 14:03

Yeah, I've yeah. I I'm I mean I'm I'm I enjoyed it because I I wasn't the biggest fan of Dominion when when it came out. I f I felt very flat at the end of that. Um, compared to all the joy that I've had from the Chaos Theory and um and and Camp Cretaceous. I really love that kind of side of it all. Uh but I feel like Colin Trevaro was kind of left to do what he wanted and didn't take notes particularly kindly. And I think I think Spielberg's the kind of person who will give over all the information and do give notes, and it's up to you then whether you decide to take any of those on board. And I think Gareth had lots of calls with Spielberg and all of that, and he did absolutely everything that Spielberg told him to do. Um so I think that's uh that that was the difference for me. I could feel I could feel that Gareth and I think it is all down to Gareth and the team that he assembled that he wanted to, you know, to come in in February, I think he did, and then to be shooting by May, March time, finish shooting September, wrap the film, you know, Christmas, it's it's done. And they didn't test screen it to anybody apart from closed test screening to family and friends.

SPEAKER_00 15:29

Um kind of insane, isn't it? I think it's crazy, yeah. The the big thing for me is kind of the I I think it is just like and I I try not to get too stuck up on it, but I think where where I spent a lot of time writing Tales from a Jurassic World, I was in that headspace of oh, dinosaurs in the world, what kind of storytelling potential is that? Um and I just get really frustrated, I think, with the fact that they've kind of got this this golden goose where you can tell any number of stories in that sort of environment, and there's lots of different ways that you could. I I feel like in Universal's mind, they probably saw that and were like, well, each story can only be about one dinosaur, so there's no way we can make a massive toy line and merchandise line around that. But I think there's way to do ways to do those kinds of stories that bring in multiple animals, and there's ways to connect to like different threads and things. So I just feel like that whole closing off of that portion of the world was completely unnecessary. Like I think you could you could look at rebirth in isolation as a mission for those specific dinosaurs because of when they were created and what that means about their biology and their um application to medical science and keep that completely separate from the other animals that are still in the world without saying they're all going extinct. And that's where I kind of feel like universals now backed themselves into a creative corner a little bit because I don't quite see where we go next that isn't Arle Saint Hubert again.

SPEAKER_01 17:00

I think a big part of this is um I think this carries over from the Jurassic World films, and I think that helped kind of establish where we are now. It is the kind of superheroification almost of like big franchises and blockbusters, is that every instalment is probably there's probably a drive from the higher-ups being like, you need to be bigger, you know, more casts, more dinosaurs, more action every single time. And what you're proposing there, Tom, is that kind of, and this is I think a lot of where a lot of fans stand of us, kind of like kind of really engaged fans, we want smaller scale stories that harken back to those original films where there's higher stakes but not as much bombast and action and stuff. But um it's just the way that the the modern blockbuster is kind of pitched with all the sequels is that every time it needs to amp up and amp up, and now we're in this place where Jurassic has become one of those superhero self-franchises, which there are there are pros and cons. Obviously, pros mean that we get a lot more investment into the series for everything else, but then the cons, unfortunately, it does come with the storytelling and the world building that that stuff gets stripped back the more you go into this world. And I think, yeah, Dominion was really a culmination of the superhero movie thinking. Uh and I know Colin had just come up with Star Wars, so he you know he probably wanted to make this big epic sprawling film. And I guess in comparison, Rebirth is smaller scale, but in terms of the action and the set pieces and the dinosaurs, everything is bigger and more bombastic. And so we're kind of I I do I my worry for the future is that we're stuck in this loop now where things just get bigger and bigger, and with a series like Jurassic, it was never about that huge action, no, but we're no longer in the Jurassic Park series, we're now in the Jurassic World series, and it there might need to be a kind of reckoning of in that they they have now become almost disconnected uh going forward, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:59

Yeah, I think I I also just listening to the commentary, um like Gareth Edwards talks about the amount of of so you shoot a scene and maybe 20% of that is kept. Um all the way through he's saying for young filmmakers out there, never shoot any backup or safety net if you're doing a a long take, because then they can't cut to anything. But he was doing the editing, so he you know, but it just means that he tries to shoot as long as he can because he tries to do everything in a single take, because then he gets as much he he's he talks about the scene where um Loomis falls and lands in the water and then everything like that. That was all done on one take, and he said he was just like he said, I really wish this just stayed on one take, and then but you know, people want to cut to the close-up of the person, you know, and he's just a just all filmmakers don't do that. Stick with your gut, just have them coming down all in one shot because it makes just lets everything breathe a bit easier.

SPEAKER_02 20:05

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:06

So it's interesting listening to the amount that was cut. But he said the first one, the first edit they did of it was under two hours long, and uh the studio went, actually, you need to let this breathe a bit, you know. Actually, they were like, Okay, they thought that we could put more action in and extend those scenes, but actually said, Cut some of the action scenes, you make them smaller, and actually elongate the stuff of people just chatting.

SPEAKER_00 20:30

So the stuff with I'm so grateful for that.

SPEAKER_03 20:33

So the Zora was a bit of a lot of studio nerve. Uh yeah, yeah, and he was he was so surprised. The editor and him were just like, Oh, they're gonna want more action put put back in this bit, and they were just like, No, can you have more of um Zora kind of talking to Henry or to um Herschelar and his character? And you're just like, Oh, okay, something is you know, and that's what that my my big issue with it is the is around that story stuff that you were talking about, Tom. The fact that and I think you mentioned it when I asked for the note, you know, from my last episode, Connor. Yeah. Like, where do we go from here? Like what why cut off that avenue for telling stories even if that's not the one you want to tell now? Just you know, you you didn't need that to have them dying off for them to need to go to this island because they could have needed these particular animals to take the DNA from, um, which could have been dropped in in any sort of you know you know, an ADR line or whatever. Um but i I didn't like the text. Apparently the text was the last thing that they added to the film at the front of the the front of the film, so that was the last thing that was added, it was wasn't there, and then then they were required to have something, and David Kepp wrote that text and was just like, okay, if you need something, here it is, add it in. But it was never there to start with.

SPEAKER_01 21:56

It just started such a shame because that's such a like the film. Starting off with that, as and and the thing is, what we're talking about here, we're coming at it from super engaged fans. I know that, yes, but most of what we're talking about here, the general audiences they do not know and they do not care, and that's who they're playing to. But it really does affect every viewing of this film. It's starting off in such a clanger with that text.

SPEAKER_03 22:18

It does, it's awful. But even if people like it's had some really negative press alongside some quite good press. And you know, I when I'm watching it, I'm just like, if you take those out, maybe you would have it like maybe people might not understand why they don't like the film or why they think certain things you know didn't don't feel right. And it's just like, well, get rid of that text. That's one thing that you can actually make make it better with because it yeah, even for like people who are really engaged like us, like I was trying to do the maths when that came up, and I was like, I don't know, this is so com yeah, this is I think it's so distracted in the cinema trying to you don't have to do this. Yeah, like if you want to start afresh, then do that and try and sever as many ties as you can. But it feels like that's what they were going to do and to separate it as much as they could, and then they couldn't, they had to kind of add bits in, but the train was already running, and so certain things had already been locked, so you can't go and change other things, so yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:22

You make a really interesting point there though, Roland, because there was a lot of talk online that apparently this was originally a reboot, and I don't know how much credibility there is to that, but it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of the clunkiness is because maybe initially they were gonna be much more along the routes of a reboot where even less would get explained. Yeah, and then it wouldn't surprise me if Studio Exec saw online commentary and kind of got cold feet around that and thought, okay, we need to pull it back in a bit.

SPEAKER_03 23:50

Yeah, I think he wanted to go back to you know, it's David Kepp, he wrote two of those films. I think he wanted to go, I'm gonna go back to what I did in those two films, yeah, and I'm gonna even though he's been involved in all of them in some capacity, he's looked at some of the scripts. Um, I think he was just like, This is my this is my story. If you you ask me to write it, this is this this is it. This is what I think should happen.

SPEAKER_01 24:16

Yeah. You can definitely feel interesting. Um sorry, Tom. I was just gonna say, you can definitely feel the confusion of um of yeah, them not fully understanding which era the facilitate facility is in in multiple scenes, the dialogue scenes contradicting each other. But like just to quickly speak to what you said about Dave and Kett coming back and wanting to go back to those films, one of the very big positives I felt of Rebirth was the amount of content it drew from the Lost World novel, and that this film almost feels like a more faithful adaptation of the Lost World novel than the Lost World film in some ways. And I did really enjoy that, but yeah, sorry, Tom.

SPEAKER_00 24:57

Yeah, no, no, you're all good. I was just gonna say, I think you actually hit the nail on the head earlier where you were talking about the superhero efication of franchises, because I kind of feel like that's where Jurassic is on a very it's basic, I would describe this franchise as on a tightrope right now, where I think you look at the Marvel franchise, you look at Star Wars as well, they kept doing that scale up, scale up, scale up, and then the bubble bursts, and they're now having to try and pull the pieces back together. And I think if Universal don't work out a way to kind of smartly course-correct, they've got the risk of getting to that exact same point where they get to the point where they can't meaningfully raise the stakes any further than they already have. So then it kind of breaks the whole thing and the bubble bursts. And I think that's that's something I'm really concerned about because I think to something you said earlier as well, Roland, where you were talking about them cutting off um an avenue that they could take the story in. The reason why those first three phases of the Marvel cinematic universe work so well is because they never did that. So they always would like tell their story, but if other plot threads popped up during that, they would leave them, so they were always there, and then you'd often find that they'd come back to them in later films and tie it all together. And I think Universal seem to feel that with this franchise it has to be one linear story and there can't be anything that's kind of an outlier to that, but actually that is potentially gonna further push them into that corner in the future where they don't have any of those other strands that they can weave back in.

SPEAKER_03 26:32

Yeah, and they don't seem to plan, they don't want to put in the you know, the actual resources to go, here's I don't know, here's a Bible of Jurassic that you give to all you filmmakers coming onto the series. Um, you know, let's keep this, you know, as as as related to each other as we possibly can, you know, and you can all have different flavours of this film, but kind of here's the A to B of what of what the story is and what it should feel like. Um because they never plan past the first so rebirth is just rebirth. You know, there is no rebirth to it, it will happen, but what that looks like, who knows? Because they you know they didn't they they never seem to want to hedge their bets and go, here's a three-film deal in the terrifying nature that maybe the first one is terrible and we've already agreed to make two and three. Um so yeah, but you know, in the end, if you'd actually taken that time to put everything together and go, here we go, just just do it. Um this this is how it's gonna work. I think I think yeah, you would you would end up with better films.

SPEAKER_00 27:42

Um yeah, it's a really interesting conundrum, isn't it? Because you saying that makes me immediately think of the 28 um 28 whatever franchise at this point, 28 years, 28 decades, whatever you want. Um, but I I think with that it's quite interesting because they they obviously have agreed to do three and they've said, well, we're definitely doing two, and then depending on the reception, we'll get funding for the third one. Yeah. And I find that quite interesting because I don't think 28 years necessarily got a fully positive reaction, but I think because they know that they're hedging their bets, they kind of have now got the time to course-correct that a little bit to try and get that third film because they know that it's funding dependent. So that kind of it it puts that good pressure on, I suppose, to kind of do a better film as a result of that. Whereas I guess if you're just doing one film at the time, you don't really care because your commitment is done, it doesn't matter overway.

SPEAKER_03 28:37

Yeah, yeah. And I think they wanted with Rebirth, I think even Rebirth, they were trying to make it lead into a sequel, but I I'm uh Gareth hasn't said it in so many words, but he cut that off. And I'm imagining because of the fact that he knew that there was nothing to go for, and then that will always set you up to you know, disappoint an audience by leaving something open-ended. He thought, well, at least let's try and just do one film that has a start, a middle, and an end, and let's and then whatever happens afterwards is a bonus.

SPEAKER_01 29:09

You know, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:11

Okay, let's uh that's that's Jurassic World Rebirth fully um fully put put back on the page.

SPEAKER_00 29:17

Um it's a deep dive, yeah.

Chaos Theory Finale

SPEAKER_03 29:19

Until next time. Um so chaos theory, it's it's finished. Um I finished it today on my lunch break just to just so I could, and my god, I was slightly worried that people were gonna come in and like I was you know worried what I was doing, feeling quite emotional at the end of the it was what a what a I watched the last three episodes back to back, and I was like, oh my word, this is oh wow, intense. I could not believe it. But so anybody listening, we we will we we've all watched this, so we we all talk about you know what we think of the series. So if you haven't watched it, just please just go and watch it. Watch all of them, even if it's you don't think they're for you and you're a Jurassic fan, you're really missing out on some really great stories and characters. Uh so Connor, what what's your thoughts on kind of the thing as a whole? These what how long's have we gone? Five years worth of content? Feels much longer than five years.

SPEAKER_01 30:21

Yeah, yeah, it's it's you know what, it's been incredible. It's it's actually crazy. Like I remember when it first got announced because they the DreamWorks animation had done like a Fast and Furious thing. And from what I'd seen of that, I'm not a fan of that series, but it looked really like vaporified and stuff, and like series one of Camp Cretaceous was was fantastic. I loved that, it brought us back to the original Jurassic Worlds, um, and it really felt very grounded in that world uh from 2015, and then but the the the main like success of the show has been the characters and watching those characters grow from being children into adults and all of the interrelationships, all of the drama, all of the kind of the breakups and the makeups, like it's been that's been a key thing that has kept this show, I think, in the forefront of like people's minds is like really like huge investment, these characters where some of them start out as kind of annoying stereotypes, and now I I mean I care for every single one of these characters, and I'm sure we'll get into you know series four of Chaos Theory and where it's going uh with some of those characters and and how we feel about them. But um also in terms of like the atmosphere and the direction and the set pieces, it blew me chaos theory blew me away in how much darker, how much more intense it was, and the way it used its dinosaurs uh in a much more mature way that really really hearkened back to the films. Um, it was series four, especially with the Dilophosaurs, every scene they were in was really especially in the tunnels. Yeah, yeah, increasingly.

SPEAKER_03 32:01

It made me think of when we talked about the Dilophosaurus on our on your your episode and about them being like the gremlins, and like they are so much like that in that. And I was the bit where they look through the the door and you can see them in the window, and I was just like, God, they're just like they're just like the gremlins, and you're just like, oh, that's amazing, yeah, so much fun.

SPEAKER_01 32:22

Yeah, yeah. I think I think chaos theory especially has been absolutely incredible. Series one was such an amazing start, with the it was it was that mystery thriller, and when we didn't, I loved that Brooklyn had seemingly died, and I I I still wish that maybe they had stuck with that decision. Uh, but I think where it did end up with the amount of drama that caused in the group, it was worth bringing her back in the end, and especially where we end up with series four. Uh, but yeah, I'd love to hear both of your takes on it as well. So maybe maybe Tom, if you wanna let us know.

SPEAKER_00 32:55

Yeah, I I mean I I kind of feel like Chaos Theory, in my opinion, succeeds where the films perhaps haven't, because it has it's taken that concept of dinosaurs in our world and shown us so many different things. And it's also I think the big thing for me with Chaos Fury is it it's painted that bigger world. So, yes, we see obviously a lot of stuff happening in America in places like Marshall Ridge, um, and what is kind of happening as those dinosaurs spread out from Lockwood Manor, but then I think going further afield with Dr. Saar's facility in Senegal and just showing us that actually this isn't something that is just happening in America or just happening on an island train. It has ramifications across the entire planet, it's really cool. Um, it sort of I guess in that regard, it really realized something that I wanted since the viral marketing website, ironically enough. I just remember thinking about the Martel facility that um Maswarani Global had in Siberia and how cool it would be to tell a story there. And I just think that both Captain Cretaceous and Chaos Feary kind of tap into that, where they're telling stories in different locations. You know, you even get the Arctic simulated locations on Manticore Island and all of that kind of stuff. And I just think it it captures that bigger picture so nicely and also gives us situations that I don't think we'd ever get in the films. Like, you know, the saber-toothed tiger, I don't think we'd ever see that in a Jurassic film. So it's it was a really nice way to, I guess, broaden the horizons of the whole franchise.

SPEAKER_03 34:36

Yeah. It kind of didn't I was thinking about it when I finished it, and you know, I felt real emotion for you know when Ben just the shock of you think Brooklyn's gonna get killed, and then out of nowhere he just gets smacked by by the stegosaur. And I was like, oh my god, that's such a gut punch. And then when he essentially yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then essentially he dies at the end of the penultimate episode, and there's no music in the credits. Like this this program doesn't have to be doesn't need to succeed in what it does, it doesn't need to be as good as it is. Uh and yet it is. Yeah. But the amount of you know detail that goes into the script and the design and the thought and effort and energy that is just put into that show is is phenomenal. And I the reason why I felt the way I did when, you know, uh Ben's you know, nearly dead is I I I really wish I'd had that for some of the characters through and this in rebirth included, you know, uh the last four films. Uh you know, I think probably Yadeski's death, you know, whereas it's not on the same level, but you were upset when he died. That's that's the sort of thing, you know, that's that's missing is that we need, and I don't know how you do it in a two-hour film, but lots of films do do that.

SPEAKER_00 36:05

Yeah. It's it's something I um so I remember thinking about this initially when we were getting rebirth filming pictures, is I remember there was when the filming pictures were coming out, we basically knew that Loomis was gonna have a fall. And I just remember thinking, how ballsy would it be if he has a fall and he just dies? Like that that would be something that we haven't seen. But I I think it's it kind of gets back to what I suppose we were talking about when we were talking about Rebirth, which is sadly a big part of these wanting to be a tent pole franchise is having marketable characters and not getting rid of them. Like I had to say it's when you look at Avengers Doom Day. Yeah, you look at Doomsday, we've got Robert Downey Jr. coming back, we've got Chris Evans coming back. It it takes away any sense of consequence, and I think it's yeah it's a real shame because in a lot of ways it it suffocates good storytelling in a way that a show like Chaos Theory doesn't get caught up in because it could choose to kill its characters if it wanted to.

SPEAKER_01 37:06

Yeah, it's incredible that they're able to do that within the realms of a kid's animated show as well, like yeah, because you've like not only was that in Chaos Theory series four, but there's been multiple points throughout the whole show, like even series one with Ben falling from the train of like putting these characters in real, like real high-stakes situations where you are actually thinking, are they actually gonna die? Which is insane given the trappings that it is a kid's show on Netflix, like they are able to pull that off with with such kind of gravity and a runtime of 23 minutes.

SPEAKER_03 37:43

Yeah, and you need to have a start, a beginning, and an end. And yeah, and I was thinking at the end with Dominion with a crossover of kind of them dragging Ben out and Ben being injured like the way he is. I'm just like, what if they'd done that to Grant or to Malcolm? Why didn't they think of doing that? Really put some you don't have to kill him off, but imagine Grant being in that situation that Ben is in for the last moment and he is the one that's thinking back. Yeah. And to him thinking it's kind of woo ends up with like a broken arm. And you're like, just I there needed to be a hell of a lot more kind of stuff going on with the characters and what they did to them.

SPEAKER_00 38:31

I think the thing I always think of as well is like situations like um it was really funny to me because I I don't know if you guys saw the Olympics marketing video that they did that crossed over with Rebirth, where it was like an Olympian talking about your world injuries and then Zora talking about her injuries. And I was just sat there thinking, yes, but the difference is that Olympian, you're seeing a clip of them getting heady lifted away because they're really injured. Whereas Zora's gonna take this life or death injury and then be back up putting full weight on her legs in no time and just running away as if nothing happened.

SPEAKER_03 39:09

Yeah, yeah, it needs we need more, and we're not asking for people to die because actually when Ben I I don't feel like I like at the end of that kind of being put through the mill with Ben, I was just like I when he did survive to the end, um it made me grateful that actually they did go down that route, and I was and then you're like, Oh yeah, that's because you care about that person and you're happy that they're still alive by the end of it. I don't need the and again this comes back to the we before you joined us, Tom, we were having a little chat about Star Wars and stuff and The Last Jedi, and a conversation I had to somebody about um The Last Jedi was around Leia and the fact that she had died when that film came out, you know, uh Carrie Fisher, and she seemingly nearly dies in The Last Jedi, and then comes in. Yeah, and yeah, I that bit that bit really works for me because I know that that real person is dead, and yet to have her be the most strongest person in that film and to not die by the end of it, you're just like, no, it's a much more fitting, you know, tribute to that character and to her and her part in the films, because you let them live and you let them be really strong, and I thought, yeah, that's I'd I'd love something like that to happen in a in a Jurassic where there's you've felt like a real power for them, but somebody who I talked to about that was just like felt really cheated that they hadn't died and that that was how she was gonna die. And I'm like, would you really like Leia to like float around like an iceberg in space? Is that your lasting image of Princess Leia um dead like that? I'm I I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_00 41:08

No, it's it's a valid point. I think what what this show does as well is I was talking to somebody about this the other day, and you see Ben get out of the car, but then he is very much wheelchair-bound for the rest of that last year. Yeah, so it's it's like the sense that there is a lasting consequence as well, and that actually that could be an injury that stays with him. It's just something that I think the the television shows have achieved that the films haven't. Like, yeah, I mean, you look you look at the Jurassic World trilogy, the amount of stuff that Owen and Claire go through, and they're still fine in each of the films. It just it's all that stuff that pushes the boundaries of realism, I think. Whereas this show does quite a good job of keeping it realistic for the most part. I will say I did laugh that we got another Dilophosaurus choke sequence, though. I I literally wrote down like I made a note on my watch route that was just Kenji got his own moment.

SPEAKER_03 42:02

Yeah. And I was just, I was just, I love the way that the last series um linked up with Dominion and again made me like the bit where the helicopter's gone, and you're just like that makes and it now changes that ending of Dominion because that's such a peaceful moment of them cramped in that tiny little helicopter um with the Jurassic music playing, and actually down below is somebody dying because you've taken it.

SPEAKER_00 42:27

Yeah, I think genuinely my show notes. Yeah, my like my notes were literally like, oh my god, because of the main trio, Ben dies. What? Yeah, yes, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 42:40

It's like bold decision, bold decision to have our movie cast kill off our animated cast, but here we go. It did a nice job also of um kind of explaining parts of that ending that didn't quite make sense, where it showed all of the dinosaurs being herded into like a sub-compartment of the main bonus in complex where because that was a big question. It's like, oh, all the dinosaurs are coming into the courtyard, and yet we only see a dreadnought, T-Rex, Derizenosaurus, and Giga, where are like the other hundred dinosaurs in this show that they were going into that storage area, which also, Tom, I like that it didn't mess with Tales from a Jurassic World.

SPEAKER_00 43:19

That's still very I did like that. I uh I appreciated that it it preserved.

SPEAKER_03 43:24

I was very worried for you, Tom, when I was when I sat down too.

SPEAKER_00 43:27

I think there's been a couple of podcasts I've had a breakdown on where I've just been like, Scott, don't do this to me. As if I have any say all he's listening.

SPEAKER_03 43:39

No, I loved I loved everything that show can that show's done, and I really hope that they can figure out something to do going forward with the with the link up with DreamWorks and I've particularly pitch for you.

SPEAKER_00 43:51

Are you ready for the pitch, Roman? Please. Um new group of characters, um, a group of brand new in-gen scientific engineers. Who are on Isle St. Hubert on the day that the D-Rex breaks out.

SPEAKER_03 44:05

Yeah. And then you've got that 17 years of stuff to play with.

SPEAKER_00 44:13

Be interesting if a certain helicopter came to rescue them, wouldn't it?

SPEAKER_03 44:20

I want to know who's on the helicopter at the start.

SPEAKER_01 44:24

Who knows?

SPEAKER_03 44:25

Oh, who knows? Yeah. It could be 94 for what forever.

SPEAKER_00 44:29

This is that it's actually gonna be set in 2029, just don't ask how that works. Yeah.

Evolution 3

SPEAKER_03 44:36

Some wormhole opened up on the island as well. Uh cool. Now if we move on to Jurassic World Evolution, and you you two got to go to the London kind of what was that, a kind of fan event, was it?

SPEAKER_00 44:50

Yeah. Yeah. So it was they they basically did um a whole dinosaur integration network building that people could go to and interact with. Um and they invited a bunch of creators on um the like Friday before it all kicked off, I think. And then over the weekend it was public access. So you had to sign up quite far in advance, and tickets were very limited. But anybody who got a ticket could go and experience this kind of immersive.

SPEAKER_02 45:18

And they were free, which is cool.

SPEAKER_00 45:19

Yeah, yeah, it was really cool. It it basically had like a bunch of the branding and everything for the Dinosaur Integration Network, but obviously the key part of that was getting hands-on with the game before it released as well.

SPEAKER_03 45:31

Amazing. So, to a complete newbie, what what what does this sort of bring? What does this mean for people um playing the game?

SPEAKER_00 45:40

Take it away conorontology.

SPEAKER_01 45:44

So for this installment, I feel like we've basically got Jurassic World Evolution 2 uh but expanded. I feel like this is really the sequel that they should have done to Jurassic World Evolution 1. Um, you've got pretty much everything carries over, um, but they've added so much more in-depth tours and an actual campaign as well, which is really, really fun with like locations all around the world. So, I mean, the kind of key headlines are that there's breeding and juvenile dinosaurs now, that there are more attractions like the river rafts, um, the Cretaceous Cruise, rather, and Dinosaur Petting Zoo. You've got enhanced terrain tools, so you can actually create whole islands, mountains, gorges, like rivers, waterfalls, and then you've got a modular building system, which essentially means that you can put down preset buildings like the Vista Center, but then you can go in and change any aspect of any structure that you want from the ground up. You can create whole new buildings, you can modify existing ones, and you can share all of this stuff with the rest of the community. So it's like an insanely big package this time around for the same price that the previous games were being sold at. So it's the kind of thing where it's like it makes the other two obsolete in many ways, but equally, if you played the second one and you weren't so much a fan, this feels very much like you're playing the second one with a whole bunch of additional features. So I would say like if you weren't a massive fan of these kind kinds of games, this one is probably still not gonna kind of be your cup of tea. Uh, but for fans of like the simulation like kind of um genre, this is now, I'd say it now stands shoulder to shoulder with the the other games that Frontier makes, like Planet Zoo and Planet Coaster, it now is at that level in which it is a serious contender for one of the best kind of sim games of this of this genre. Um it's but it is a massive package. I said at the top of the show, I find it almost overwhelming, and I really have to divide my time up if I'm gonna play this because this is not a game that you can play casually for uh an hour or even two. This is a this is a solid three to six hour session game.

SPEAKER_00 48:05

I have an important question, which is you say it stands shoulder to shoulder with Frontiers Over Games. Does it stand shoulder to shoulder with Operation Genesis? Oh yeah, that's not really.

SPEAKER_01 48:18

You see, the thing is, yeah, there's something about that game that you just can't ever get. And I don't care how many details and features go into these games, nothing will ever beat the immaculate vibes of childhood nostalgia.

SPEAKER_03 48:36

I had to save that onto like my I think it was at Xbox One even that it was on. And yeah, to save it onto a like like a memory disc every time you sort of close the game. I just loved it. Yeah, I mean, because that was what you wanted to do. Like, if there was gonna be a Jurassic Park game, that's what I wanted it to be. Like, why couldn't you just make a Jurassic Park game and yeah, they break out and you you know put them back in, or the all the fun of um like roller coaster tycoon and um theme park hospital, um where you get load like you don't put in enough, I don't know, toilets and you get everybody complaining, or you can just have just play a real god, which actually strange tangent here, but the that that's sort of where AI comes from. I read a good book called Supremacy and it goes into the details of sort of the people behind the Chat GPT and all of that. Um and they made those games, you know, they made theme, you know not theme park hospital, but equivalents of those. And it's almost that's and that's kind of the genesis of AI is the idea of wanting to create a and have a computer create a world for you. And that's what they're all wanting to do. That's what we're you know, that's what we're chasing for.

SPEAKER_00 49:53

We know what we need to say, which is they were so preoccupied before they could that they didn't stop to think if they should.

SPEAKER_03 50:00

They're all they're all Hammond and Dodgson, and uh they're there now and they're tinkering.

SPEAKER_00 50:07

I I do think like the the amount of creative depth that JWE3 has is insane. So I've um I've done a few short form videos and I kind of I took a break from making content on it to make content on chaos theory, but just like the the big thing for me is the way they've made, I guess, visually impressive parks so much easier. So in the past, you would have to place like individual scenery items and things around your park to get it looking a certain way, but now there's a whole system in place with blueprints where you can basically get a collection of different scenery pieces that make a thing. So you could have like a piece of outdoor seating that's underneath a glass shelter and that you can just place down and stuff like that. So from a purely aesthetic standpoint, it lets you get your parks looking the most beautiful they ever have. Yeah, but I think for me as somebody who plays with the camera mode a lot, because I like to try and make cinematics with it, I think just the amount of potential there is for like interesting framing and interesting angles and different shots and things has increased massively twofold. So I think from the the perspective of it being a sandbox game, it really is probably one of the best sandbox games that's out there at the moment in terms of just giving people a set of tools that they can use to make something.

SPEAKER_01 51:30

Yeah, I think um building on that is like I'm a massive fan of doing like recreations from from the previous two games. I liked recreating pieces like concept art and things from the novel and the films, and this game is insane. Like there are people that are currently working on like a one-to-one recreation of like the interior of the visitor center or the Lockwood Manor, and then there's even folks like oh, I wish I knew his name off the top of my head, but someone who's recreating the uh like this amazing piece of uh concept art, it might be by John Bell for the first film, in which there's this grand visitor center that's got a bridge spanning like this big canyon, uh, and they they are recreating that, like like piece by piece, every detail is in there. This it's incredible, like now you can fully create whatever you want within the Jurassic universe, and that is insane. You're not constrained by hardly anything now. You can take any image or any piece of inspiration out, and you can basically recreate it one-to-one on the building side of things, and then also with the new juvenile system and like the territory system, like you can create ecosystems for your dinosaurs, and then as Tom was saying, with like the the camera modes, there's a first-person camera, you can now create like a survival horror style building where you go first person through like an abandoned facility with blood on the floor and like raptors loose. You can you anything that you want to create, you can, and that is truly incredible. And I as part of that, I really hope that this is now the last evolution game because like it really has all those features that fans have been asking for from all the previous games, and it's really this time. Where do you go? Like, just leave it at this one. This this can have legs for decades because of the amount of creativity, they just need to keep updating it.

SPEAKER_00 53:27

But Connor, Jurassic World Evolution 4 featuring Al Saint New Bear and the Mutridon.

SPEAKER_01 53:34

That's actually it's a really good point. Of like, this game is the first evolution game to launch after the film that it's tied into and has zero reference and zero content from the film because it was just so disconnected with the the development process. And I I imagine they're probably still working on the rebirth content seeing as we don't have an announcement and stuff, like it it's yeah. I mean, at the time of recording, uh, but yeah, it it's yeah, I don't know how they're gonna implement some of that rebirth stuff as well, like a mutadon, like is that going an Avery or in a paddock because it can fly, but it's not a pterosaur, so yeah, it rebirth really threw a spanner in the works for this game, I think, that they're they're they're figuring out.

SPEAKER_00 54:16

It's almost like it did that across the board.

SPEAKER_03 54:19

Yeah, yeah, it did. Yeah. Hello, I've made a film and it's just like, oh my god, like warning signs, just alarms go off in everybody holding a classic property. Yeah. He's done what?

SPEAKER_01 54:36

Sorry, there's a six-limbed T-Rex with a rancor face.

SPEAKER_03 54:41

Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah, and you want me to have it done by Tuesday? Brilliant. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_00 54:46

Nice. Yeah, easily. Easy. I mean, I I do feel like we are we are living in an era though where Jurassic games have got the potential to go in a very good direction.

Jurassic Park Survival

SPEAKER_03 54:58

Yes. If we move on to what potentially might be coming next year. Now, this is something that might get me to you know think about consoles and things like that, and that is Jurassic Park survival. What do we know so far about this game?

SPEAKER_00 55:16

Yeah, so it follows Dr. Maya Joshi, who is a scientist who was recruited specifically by Henry Wu to work on Island Nublar. And Maya was left behind when the evacuation in Jurassic Park happened. So she is on her own on the island. However, there are going to be other characters that pop up throughout the story. So in the concept art, we see somebody who um shout out to the Jurassic Discord crew who will know who they are. Um, people were pointing out that there's this character with a different name, but he looks strangely like Dodgson in a piece of concept art because he's got like a red shirt on and a straw hat, so there's that potential there. Um, also, she seems to potentially hear somebody over the radio in the initial reveal trailer, so there's definitely gonna be other stuff of factors in there. Um, but really the game is still in alpha. It almost looks like, from everything we've seen, that they did the announcement trailer and then restarted production because everything we're seeing is very, very early, so it almost looks like they started from the ground up. Um, there is a lot of conjecture in the fandom about the fact that it's not Jurassic Park dinosaur models, it's Jurassic World Dinosaur models. I would make the argument to people, I think to Universal they are the same thing. They probably have the Jurassic World assets at a higher res, so they probably don't see the difference. Um, but I I think we're probably still quite a way away from that. So I genuinely would be shocked if we got it next year. I actually think we're probably more likely to see it in 2027 just because it's I think right now the stuff they're showing is pre-alpha, which says a lot about the kind of state it's in.

SPEAKER_01 57:07

It feels like they wanted to get a trailer out in the JP30 anniversary year, but then they really saw those pictures of them still writing the game and stuff like that. It's like, oh okay, that this was this is a classic thing in the video game industry where they show a pre-rendered cinematic as like a trailer, and then they actually start making the game, which is where I feel well where we are with this. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:30

That's where we are currently, yeah. However, as a uh classic Jurassic fan Roland, you'll be excited to know that what we will get in this game is it sounds very much like it's gonna be open world. Um, and we've been concept we've seen concept art that shows the unfinished uh resort on Isla Nublar. So we're gonna see areas of the park that we don't see in the original film. Um we have also we've seen the emergency bunker from Fallen Kingdom already as well, so we're gonna find out what that was originally used for. So it looks like they're they're taking a lot of care to kind of craft uh a really immersive Isla Nublar map, which is exciting. The one thing I would say is graphically it doesn't look the best.

SPEAKER_03 58:18

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:19

Yeah. I think it is it's very much it looks like it's being made on the same engine that Saber's um oh what's the film Quiet Place? Yes, there we go. It looks like it's being made on the the same engine that the Quiet Place game was made on, and the graphics sort of look like an Xbox One era game. Um it might run on the Xbox One, who knows?

SPEAKER_03 58:49

I'll boot it up. It'll probably take me from now until when the game comes out. No, I love all the stuff. Re-re-reading the novels this year and kind of the stuff with the hotel uh where they stay in and the little TVs that they have in the room, that would just be so cool to go in and have a look. And you know, the the bars on the windows and all that sort of stuff that's mentioned in the in in the novel. I just think that is such a rich place to go into. Um yeah, it's fab. It's it's always such a shame that we can't go back to that moment before the dinosaurs get out, you know, that and have it as those bits, but in that era, that's what I want, like big big box TVs and like clicky remotes.

SPEAKER_00 59:35

You see, I feel like that that would be the dream that we maybe could have got in like a 2010 era game, because right, right, get ready for the pitch here, guys, okay? And and Saber, if you're listening, you might want to note this down. Think back to Modern Warfare 2. In Modern Warfare 2, at the end of the game, you can go into the museum and you can see like all of the enemy and friendly characters from the game and press a button and they attack you. What if when you finish the campaign for survival, you can then go back through the park as the like functional park and see all of the attractions? And if you want to press the metaphorical button, you can start the breakout of all of them.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:17

That would be really cool. Yeah.

unknown 1:00:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:20

I'd yes, I'd I'd do that multiple times.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:23

Saber, delay it to 2028. Yeah.

Flowervale Street

SPEAKER_03 1:00:29

No, I'm I'm excited for when that comes out. Um, I don't think we'll probably get a new film, although who knows? Um, you know, um Joe Johnson might suddenly spring out with uh his his Jurassic 8. Um but we do have a uh dinosaur film that's coming out that is very shrouded in mystery, which is the Anne Hathaway and Ewan McGregor dinosaur movie, which is I brought it up Flower Vale, yeah, Flower Vale Street, all 80s set sort of time travel film that looks bonkers, and Ian McGregor keeps saying it has no dinosaurs in it, um, apart from everybody else saying it's got tons of dinosaurs in.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:14

I'm all for more dinosaur franchises at this point.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:17

Yeah, I think we might finally absolutely yeah, because we didn't really get anything like after the big Jurassic, you know, we had loads of like really there was like animated things, but there was never anything to really contend with a big blockbuster.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:33

With this one as well, like I feel like it's a whole new angle. Like we've got um we've got Jurassic, which is like the blockbuster thing, primitive war is like a war kind of thing. Whereas this is like it it's I think it's directed by David Robert Mitchell, who did It Follows and Under the Silver Lake, who is a great director of these kind of like weird atmospheric movies. I love both of those movies. I don't know if he's on anything else, but so this is like bringing dinosaurs to a whole new kind of more indie A24 kind of crowd, which is yeah, this is what we need. We need dinosaurs across all sorts of series, not just these big temple blockbusters.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:11

Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's it's something we talk about a lot, isn't it, Connor? Is like the idea of something like a primeval reboot fitting in right about now with the kind of prevalence of dinosaurs. And I I think equally like you see that from shows like Prehistoric Planet, where actually they're putting dinosaurs more and more on the small screen as well.

Primitive War Movie

SPEAKER_03 1:02:30

Yeah, I think um, yeah, I saw does have either of you seen Primitive War?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:37

I saw so interestingly, I was gonna I was gonna book the cinema screening of it that they're doing, but I think it was tonight, actually. I think it was tonight. One one showing, but I was quite surprised that so I'm not far from Maidstone, so that's where I would have seen it, and I was like, oh, I I don't think there'll be many people like going to it. It was actually pretty booked out, to be fair to them. So I thought it's got amazing word of mouth.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:07

I actually got to um I got to see see it. I got a screener sent to me. So I've I've watched it, and my review is on blueprintreview.com. I'll put a link below. Um it's I read the book this year as well. Um okay, cool. Uh it is very close to the book, so it it follows the book in my mind a bit too much. So it is it is I I I've found the book quite heavygoing at times in terms of like uh character backstories and them thinking that that is m the reason why I'm reading this. Um and again seeing the film, I'm like, yeah, I I don't really care about you, you know. I just want to see you get eaten and I want to have dinosaurs, you know, be vicious and all that kind of great horrible stuff. The dinosaurs in it are great, the special effects are really good for the like for the kind of cost of this film versus Jurassic. Just like this is really impressive that that's kind of the level that we've got.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:19

I cannot unsee it being a Jurassic World of Patasaur. Like it just looks like the Jurassic World of Patty.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:26

And the T-Rex, the the Rexes are they're a bit beefier, but those heads are very much that. And the um Quetzalcoatlas as well is very similar. Um yes, somebody's I don't know whether there must be an asset floating about somewhere that you can get hold of, and that's what you've that's what they've got.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:48

Yeah, slightly tweaked, yeah, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:54

But yeah, I I think to the point on all of that, I think it is it's I I kind of I'm in this headspace at the moment, and full full disclosure, I have skin in the game because I'm writing a dinosaur book. But I just think that I I really feel like there's a lot that Universal could have done with the Jurassic franchise that they haven't. Um and I I'm sort of of the mindset now of I'm like, well, I kind of want somebody else to come along and do something else. Because I I I think it's kind of if I was to use a gaming analogy, right? If you look at this year's two big releases, Black Ops, no, not Black Ops, Battlefield 6 did way better than Black Ops 7. So Call of Duty has started to suddenly course correct and do a lot of things that their fans are asking for, and they're starting to listen to that a lot more. And I almost want to see that in the film franchises now, where I would love for somebody to come along, do a really good dinosaur film, and then kind of make Universal and the people heralding the Jurassic franchise sit up and go, Okay, we need to actually do something else with this now.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:59

Yeah. I think I think we're gonna get Gareth back, I I hope, um, for the next film because I think he deserves to, you know, just visually, I really really like his style and I think he can he can bring a lot and I think just let him maybe because to have something like the creator and that sort of because I know the stories that he can come up with and put in that you know that that depth of uh I don't know, just thought and philosophy as well, I think he brings to his films.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:33

I would love to see him do something like Godzilla, but Jurassic. Like, can you imagine? So obviously in Godzilla you follow um the EOD soldier for a large chunk of it and kind of his experience throughout that. And I just think like how interesting would it be if they they went back in time and show us like the soldiers who were on that helicopter that's crashed from Al Saint-Hubert and just give us like a really intimate story about those characters and how they got off of the island or something. I kind of feel like we're at the point where they need to break the linear storytelling and maybe do something else to make it feel a bit fresher rather than going, here's another sequential sequel at this point.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:19

Yeah, absolutely. Especially where Rebirth leaves things off. It's like, well, they've got the the DNA, they've left the island with baby Dolores still done. Yeah, there's a Mosasaur in those waters. Um but yeah, there's so much about the island that would be cool to explore, but then just going back just feels really odd. Like going back again, uh you know, it it feels like yeah, we'd need something like what you're saying with the soldiers. Maybe even it's a scientist from the lab escaping after the D-Rex, and then the soldiers come to the island. Like, there's a lot going on there that I think could be interesting if they wanted to make a direct rebirth tie-in, which sounds like what they want to do. But equally, as you said earlier, bankable stars, they've now got Jonathan Bailey, who's massive, and Scarlet and Mahershula, and I'm sure they'll want to bring them all back, and that's the that's the thing that I think that's gonna stop that from happening.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:15

So this is where the wormhole comes back into the conversation, though, because those three go for a wormhole, and they end up on Owl Saint Hubert right as the breakout happens.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:26

I wouldn't be surprised if Gareth has got something very weird that he would like to do with this franchise. And I wouldn't be surprised if that's what he goes with. And I think Spielberg does quite enjoy weirdness, particularly with Jurassic. You know, he's the one that always wanted the hybrids and the mutatons. He's he loves that. So I think I think if there's some dark weirdness in a rebirth sequel, and if Gareth can pitch it to Spielberg, he's gonna he's gonna go for it, I think. Because I think there was one bit in the commentary Gareth mentioned about talking about when the lights come on at the gas station just suddenly, and Gareth pitched that to Spielberg, and he said that as it comes up, there's like a song that plays that feels completely out of place from where they are. And he said he saw that Spielberg started to smile and like nod his head, and he was just like, Okay, I think I've got him. I think I've pitched him what I would like to do with this film. So yeah, it's I think it's all to play for, and I think he's proved himself with because as much as he could kind of add things, it wasn't really his film as such, you know, to the point where he could come in and direct it, but be that person, I think they wanted somebody to come in and be really free. Um, and I think he tried to do that as much as he could, and I hope he's given a lot more scope and say in the next one.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:52

Just imagine what it would have been if the director of Fast and Furious had directed this, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:09:57

I know. I'm glad I'm not in that worm.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:00

David Leach, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:02

Oh, yeah, very, very good point. Great director for other types of films, but not drafts.

Outro

SPEAKER_03 1:10:08

No, no, thank you. Um, yeah, so I'd just like to say thank you so much for joining me today. It's been so great, and I yeah, I've really enjoyed kind of the past 12 months and digging in and talking about this series and meeting people like yourselves. Um, and I will be back next year to talk. I've got a series all about the um timeline of dinosaurs in books. That's what my next series is gonna be is going back to the basics, talking about Jules Verne, um Arthur Conan Doyle, um, yeah, and kind of getting to the point of where dinosaurs were the real animals and the kind of paleontology that was going on at that point, to uh yeah, Jurassic Park and what what we have um currently now in literature. But yeah, that's coming next year. I look forward to it.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:06

I I mean congratulations, Roland, for the show as well. It's been so nice seeing Road to Rebirth grow it and everything that you've done with the podcast. I know initially it was kind of Road to Rebirth because it was up to the film and then what could happen next. So I think it's really exciting that you've kind of taken so much away from that that you're now continuing and you're doing other stuff because I think there's so much space for interesting content in the Jurassic community, and I think you're definitely delivering that. So I know I'm glad to hear you all be continuing. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:36

That's really kind, and I think you know, for what the thing is of you saying about other studios and other places kind of making sure that Universal up their game, or we want them to, I think and I hope that we all support each other in everybody else's endeavours. So, like Jurassic Park Podcast, Stephen Ray Morris's see Jurassic Wright, um, Stuck on Sauna Outpost, you know, it's a great community to be part of and just I I love I love it when I open up my podcast app and see a new episode drop. Um and yeah, very, very excited to yeah continue being part of it for next year as well.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:11

Absolutely. It's a great time for the community.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:14

Yes, it is. So so where can people find you online, if indeed you want them to?

SPEAKER_01 1:12:21

Yeah, yeah, good. Go ahead, everyone. It's at Connor Ontology uh on Instagram uh and Blue Sky, and of course Dino DNA on the Jurassic Park podcast. And you might see some of um both mine and Tom Surf appear on the Frontier workshop for Jurassic World Revolution 3 under our names as well.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:40

I I'm just gonna say you'll see Connor's stuff, you won't see mine because my stuff is horrific in comparison to what I've been able to do so far. I think at one point I put a logo on a crate and I was like, yeah, that's good enough for the workshop, and then I saw the other stuff and was like, no, it's not. Um yeah, you can find me at Tom underscore Jurassic on Twitter and Instagram. Never gonna call it X, it's always gonna be Twitter. Um, and you can also find me on TikTok, which I don't really mention, but I do have a TikTok page now, so yeah. Nice down with the kids.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:21

Huge thanks to Connor and Tom for joining me on my last episode of 2025. It's been a hugely enjoyable 2025 for me creating this podcast and getting to speak to so many people about the series I love. And it doesn't stop there. I have a brand new season coming in 2026. I'm going to share more details at the end of my next episode. That episode is a conversation with the wonderful Mark Newbold who writes for ILM.com and oh hundreds of other places about Star Wars and so many other series. It's a it's a really great chat. It was such a delight to talk to him about his thoughts on Jurassic and also that question about whether Jurassic would work on the smaller screen. I know it's sort of an eternal question for us fans. So join me next week for that episode. To follow the show and everything else, you can find me on Instagram at Jurassic Pirates Pod, brand new handle. And until next time, I'll just say thank you very, very much for listening. Have a wonderful new year and goodbye.