What Jurassic Can Learn from Star Wars with Mark Newbold (FanthaTracks)

What can Jurassic learn from Star Wars? Would Jurassic work as a TV show or would it loose it’s special cinematic exclusivity? 

All of these questions and more are discussed in today’s special episode with my wonderful guest Mark Newbold!

If you want to follow Mark’s work then please head to @prefect_timing on Instagram and visit FanthaTracks.com

Here is also a link to Mark’s interview with David Vickery for ILM.com - https://www.ilm.com/jurassic-world-rebirth-david-vickery-interview-ilm/

I will be back in a couple of weeks for a special introductory episode for my next season so make sure you listen to the end for details!

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

I think if they did a Jurassic show on television, the spectacle would become so. I can s I can put I can hit the pause button and go make a cup of tea, come back and carry on. It's the difference, to me, being an old fight, it's the difference between listening to a song you love on the radio when you can't hit pause, or listening to it on cassette when you can hit pause.

SPEAKER_02 0:20

Hello and welcome back to The Pirates Don't Eat the Tourists. Rounding out my little duology of winter specials, I'm exploring fandom and looking forward to the future of Jurassic. What it could become, how it might evolve, and what lessons it can take from other major franchises. Joining me in that endeavour is someone who is steeped in the ever-expanding universe of Star Wars, writing for an entire constellation of official and fan outlets. Please welcome to the show Mark Newbold. Thank you so much for joining me today. How are you?

SPEAKER_00 0:56

I'm very well, thank you. Thanks for the invite. Yeah, that's fine.

SPEAKER_02 0:59

Um, so to kind of start us off, I was wondering, you know, people who might not be familiar with your work, if you'd just mind giving us a little quick introduction to yourself.

SPEAKER_00 1:08

Yeah, well, being a predominantly a Star Wars guy, but also hooked into all the sort of ILM connected stuff, I started um because I'm very old now, uh, back in the 80s writing fanfic as a kid, and then moving into online fandom in the mid-90s, and then sort of moving on with that into uh official uh stuff like Star Wars Insider magazine. Um I write I now write for ILM.com and ScarwalkerSound.com, written for Star Wars.com. I'm a Trekkie as well, so I've written for Star Trek.com, Star Trek Mag, uh write for Starburst magazine, and and various other magazines over the years. So lots of lots of sort of stuff like that, which is great because it expands the palette because most of my day-to-day stuff is is the Star Wars related thing. But it's really great doing a bit of Starburst or ILM because then it can open up to into other avenues, including of course Jurassic.

SPEAKER_02 1:55

Yeah, and and and I mean I have to ask, are you actually a fan of Jurassic Park?

SPEAKER_00 1:59

Massively, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:01

Do you remember the first time you saw it?

SPEAKER_00 2:02

Yeah, very well. It was uh it was 1993, obviously. Uh I was on holiday in Orlando, so it would have been the June. And uh being because at that point of time Star Wars was on a bit of a down period, so the the interest had sort of turned more to Trek than anything that ILM was doing, uh, because I was sort of collecting the Lucaswell magazine at the time, so they kept you very hooked into what ILM was getting on on with. And I was a Spielberg fan as well, so anything Spielberg is gonna catch my eye, and knew that Jurassic was coming, and being an Empire magazine subscriber, they'd made a big deal about it. Uh, and so fortunately, yes, saw it in the States with a very rowdy crowd, and uh yeah, it was it was special. I I remember it very well because I ordered popcorn thinking it was gonna be like our popcorn, nice and sweet, and took a mouthful and it was salty popcorn, which which did not impress me at all.

SPEAKER_01 2:52

Um, but hey have you have you kept up with the series uh uh as as it's kind of evolved?

SPEAKER_00 2:58

Oh absolutely. I mean I'd read the book before I saw the film, so I'd I'd I'd read the novel back when I had time to read books. I never seemed to have time to read books these days. But uh yes, I'd read the novel, which obviously is quite different to the to the film. Yes, um, and then yeah, just I remember uh heading down to Leicester Square to see Lost Worlds uh in '97. Um and and weird memories of sitting in McDonald's and my friends sort of looking at the ticket, going, We had a 12 o'clock screening and it's one o'clock, we've missed the screening, and they let us into the next screening, which I thought was very cool for opening day. Uh, and until Jurassic 3, just at the local cinema. Um, and and yeah, and then of course when when um Jurassic World starts and that whole sort of chain of things begin. Um again, it was uh 2015, so it's the same year as Force Awakens, another ILM. Well, they're all ILM. Um the interests and the connections, a lot of the same people worked on both productions, and and so there's there's a great overlap there.

SPEAKER_02 3:52

Yeah, um, and you mentioned about working and writing for ILM.com and you recently interviewed um David Vickery. How was that? Chatted to him about have you have have you talked had you talked to him properly?

SPEAKER_00 4:02

First time, first time, and he was so cool because he's another Brit and he was just so easy to talk to, and really um I think I think with a lot of the the behind-the-scenes guys, and luckily with what I do with the magazine with insider, which sadly it's finishing fairly soon, but with insider a lot of the interviews tend to be with the actors, it's the on-screen people. But with things like ilm.com and with my site phantatracks, we try and speak to more behind-the-scenes people. Uh, and they don't always get interviewed, and yet their work, they being folks like David and the teams that he's sort of overseeing, that's the stuff that people tend to remember as much as you know, great, great snappy banter or or great character moments. Yeah you know, it's those amazing sequences, and obviously, in in the latest film, in Rebirth, you know, the scene with the T-Rex by the river with the boat, you know, he goes into great detail on how they did that. And it's mind-blowing. I mean, you we've all got a fairly good eye for the visuals. We we kind of know what we're looking at, but even then when you learn that you know the inflatable boat wasn't there, the the trees weren't there, so much of it just wasn't there, the actor was there, but that was about it.

SPEAKER_02 5:01

Yeah, I think a lot of that was filmed in Lee Valley as well, which is even more funny. Oh yeah. Um he seems really down to earth, and uh he's done a commentary for Rebirth as well with Gareth Edwards, I think, because Gareth knows like he almost works backwards as a film director because he knows what the end result should be and really seems to help out the special effects. Yes, and I've seen it go from being a sort of fix-it tool and something that's like tacked on at the end to something that is as important, I think he says in that interview with you, as hair and makeup and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00 5:33

Oh, totally, yeah. I mean, that's especially with Gareth because he's come from you know the the home, the home doing it himself sort of realm on monsters where it was him doing pretty much everything. So he's got such a great grasp. And when when he did Rogue One, ILM were hugely impressed with him, like crazily impressed with him, because they all spoke the same language, you know, with a lot of directors, it's having to not handheld, not handheld, that's a bit patronizing, but you know, they've got to walk him through the steps. That that shorthand was right there with Gareth. Yeah, and that moved on obviously to the creator as well, which was was criminally overlooked at award season, in my opinion. Yes, yeah, just insane what they did on that, and then moving forward to this, you know, knowing that the time scale was so short, and Gareth wanted I mean, he loves practical. Who doesn't love practical? You look at those great uh you know things that were that were built for the original film, yeah, but there wasn't the time. Gareth's so conversant with visuals and digital, it it made sense, and obviously they could turn it around in in comparatively short order.

SPEAKER_02 6:33

Yeah, because they didn't have any time for any pickup shots. Whatever they had by the end of shooting, that's what they had to work with. Yeah, it's it's fascinating to see how he wanted the aesthetic to be consistent across the entire film rather than try and put in those animatronics, which I know a lot of fans, and I'm sure of Star Wars films as well, love to have those kind of that tie back to the original.

SPEAKER_00 6:55

Yeah, and it's the palette as well. It's it's the filmmaker's palette. It's now the filmmaker has the choice if they want to do uh a great big Stan Winston 30-ton T-Rex built, they can. On the new uh Avengers Doomsday, they're building a lot of sets, and the actors are walking in, seasoned Marvel actors going, Wow, we've never had sets like this before. It's usually just green and blue, which sounds a bit like a bit like Ewan and Hayden making the prequels, going, Wow, it's just green and blue screens, and then Ewan comes back for Robin Kenobi and they've built okay, it's it that was stagecraft, that was different again, but you know, with with what Gareth can do working in concert with ILM, gave such phenomenal. I'm expecting big things for that film when it comes to award season, you know, the visuals of that were just as you say consistent and just so impressive.

SPEAKER_02 7:41

Yeah, and he he has a real ability to create weight into characters as well. Um I was thinking of that that T-Rex scene and almost the moment in Rogue One with Darth Vader's appearance towards the end. The weight of them arriving on the screen is just you know because because of the nostalgia and everything that's built into those characters that he has on the screen, that it's it's it's it's an inevitable ending, and it's just you just he just waits, he just has an amazing ability to drag that out.

SPEAKER_00 8:14

Oh, so true. And and Vader is the T-Rex of of the Star Wars movies, if you like. That's a great analogy. Uh and obviously Gareth having done both, he's that's a fairly rare thing. I don't know if Joe Johnson's done obviously Star Wars stuff and never directed to the level that Gareth did with Rogue One, but but um you know there's that that nice overlap there, and Con Travaro should have directed episode nine, and that never came off either. But so there's a lot of overlap between the two. But I mean ILM treats, and that kind of blows my mind because obviously ILM was created to do Star Wars and then blossomed in the 80s to do all these other franchises, um, really starting off with Trek was the first one that really connected and Raiders and and stuff like that. Stuff beyond what George said, Oh you know, we'll always do foot Stephen's films if he wants us to, and then you know, um uh Rotha Khan comes along and it's like all of a sudden all these other things. But they consider ILM consider Jurassic as much their thing as they do Star Wars, which only recently kind of was communicated to me in such a formal way, as I wow, I'd never even it makes all the sense because they worked so I've never worked at all the films so far, but I'd never thought of it in those terms.

SPEAKER_02 9:20

Yeah, no, that's interesting because they they did those amazing documentaries on on Disney Plus that were just so fascinating to to watch, and I think Joe Johnson even directed the second um series. And I think uh if I'm writing what I'm uh saying that George Lucas where he um did a lot of the post-production for the original Jurassic because Spielberg was off making Children's List. And from what I hear, is he saw how the special effects were being you know so well done for that film that he was like, maybe I can do the prequels. That was the initial kind of spark.

SPEAKER_00 9:53

There was always the story that George looked at that sort of uh skeleton T-Rex scene that um that Spaz Williams and the guys had done and and got a bit teary-eyed. Apparently he didn't get teary-eyed because that's not George's stock.

SPEAKER_02 10:05

I can't imagine I can't imagine. Me neither.

SPEAKER_00 10:07

It's not his thing, really, is it? But but that he looked at that and realised, and and Kathleen Kennedy was it was in that in the room with that happened. She, you know, she walks in and sees that. What's this on the monitor? You know, what a moment. And and but then yeah, as you as you were saying, you know, that's where George thinks, well, actually, now I can do episode one.

SPEAKER_02 10:26

Yeah, I love how the two franchises are really linked with so many people and so many behind the scenes people as well. Because when I was growing up, so I grew up in early 90s, my Star Wars was the 97, I s I suppose, when that would the when the when the re-release happened, and I had the I had the VHS. Jurassic was my that was my fandom, that was my thing that kind of exploded when I was six years old. H how did Star Wars come into your life?

SPEAKER_00 10:51

Oh, um I think I think with me being being that much older, so for me, my early years as a as a kid kid was you know Doctor Who goes even before Blake Seven, so it's like really sort of you were catching more of the sixties reruns and and the fifties movies, and then Star Wars comes along, and it's it's someone has suddenly turned on you know Dolby, someone suddenly invented technical suddenly stop motions are not statically staggering along, all of a sudden everything's smooth. And even though now kids see Star Wars now and think it looks quaint and antique and and whatever, for the longest time it didn't. I mean, you think you came in the special edition era, and even then it held up, it was only 20 years then, but but it held up really well, yeah. You know, and and so for me, once I'd seen Star Wars, it literally, it's the one thing I can say in my life spoilt me for everything else. Because at that time there was nothing comparable, and goodness knows plenty of other people tried. It's a bit like when Potter came out and everybody was trying to do their Potter and nobody could do it. It was a bit like that with Star Wars, everyone was trying to black hole comes out, and you can't compare Alien to Star Wars because it's a it's an adult thing, it's a different thing, but you know what I mean? There was all these things trying to do it, and so it just hooked me, and and really I never stepped off the train, even though in the 90s I was more into Star Trek. That's because there was loads of Star Trek to watch, and ILM were doing stuff, and the movies was I most of them was ILM, so my interest was there, and and there wasn't a lot of Star Wars in the 90s, really. There was a bit at the at the start in the novels and comics bobbling along, special edition in '97, Shadows of the Empire in '96, Phantom Menace in 99. So it's just, it's just, I've just never lost interest in it. So I guess I'm I'm a lifer now if I'm still into it at my age. But but with Jurassic, I think when that came out, that was such a there's there's moments in cinema history where obviously Star Wars, well, Jaws is the the one that right before Star Wars, in terms of the numbers and the interest and catching the zeitgeist. Star Wars was just monumental, and then E.T., of course. Yeah, and then really after E.T. there's this big films, don't get me wrong, Back to the Future's a classic, Ghostbusters is a classic, is that all that stuff in the air indie is an iconic character, but there's no other monster, I mean, real monster film. Maybe Batman, maybe the first Burton Batman, but Jurassic was just Jurassic was as big as ET, as big as Star Wars. So I think the the interest in that and and that next mega step in visual effect, you know, we'd had Terminator 2 doing great things, we'd had even things like Hook with texture mapping and the landscapes and the the digital changeover that ILM were doing at the time that we were aware of, but but then Jurassic comes out and and and was just so um just so impressive and just so next level. And I love the fact that as you mentioned, Spielberg goes and makes Schindler's List, one of his other great films, and leaves it four years before he comes back to do Lost World. And and literally took a break, I think, after after Schindler's, he he didn't do anything for three or four years, which was kind of a master stroke. So he kept us waiting in just the right way.

SPEAKER_02 13:56

Yeah, I think he w I think after Jurassic and doing Schindler's List, I think you know, everything he gave to Schindler's List, he just wanted to go back to Jurassic. He said that's all he could think about was actually just having a bit of fun after that experience.

SPEAKER_00 14:09

And and and what I love about Lost World is he's because that's one of those films a bit like Jurassic 3 got really piled on at the time. And we all know, you know, they're what and stuff on set and making the story up as they went along to a degree. Um but actually when you and it's what one of the most re-watchable I mean they're all re-watchable, but that's really re-watchable.

SPEAKER_02 14:27

Yeah, you know, and actually short as well. It's about about an hour and a half.

SPEAKER_00 14:30

I was gonna say it's not many blat lengths, it's about 90 minutes, and so it's like in and out, and and it's a tight, quite a compact story for a Jurassic thing. And it's it's classic Jurassic. People being chased by giant monsters, some get eaten, some don't. That's what else is Jurassic Park?

SPEAKER_03 14:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:44

Um I I really like three, but two got piled on because it is quite it's the Temple of Doom of its of that original trilogy, isn't it? It's quite dark. So but I mean that's that's got a big epic scale to it, and some of the visuals in that, where are we nearly what 28 years on, still hold up phenomenally well.

SPEAKER_02 15:00

I just think there's that special source that they managed to create. And I think when it all came back in for Jurassic World, I think there was a sheen to it that just didn't seem to kind of like bed in as well with for me anyway, you know. Um at that point, I I'd I've said this many times, but kind of the the length of time between 2001 and 2015, cinema had changed too much, and my mind was still back in the early 2000s. I'm like, okay, we're just gonna pick up exactly from where that film left off, and that's you know, that style, that look, that's just gonna continue. And then you've just got to check yourself, really, and go, Oh, actually, there's a whole host of people that have probably never even seen Jurassic Park by this point, and they're coming in fresh, and that's their film.

SPEAKER_00 15:46

You saying that's a really interesting point because I think with with Star Wars, for example, as a comparison point, if a kid's getting into Star Wars now, if a kid got into let's say the same time, same year, Force Awakens, that's their first Star Wars film, and a kid gets into Jurassic through Jurassic World, which a lot of people did. Obviously, what was it, 1.6 billion or something crazy like that?

SPEAKER_02 16:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:05

So you you send a kid back to watch Jurassic Park, that's not the mega leap that it would be to say to a kid, go back to '77 and watch the original Star Wars. Yeah. That is quite I could I get that that would be quite jarring. Whereas Jurassic, the original Jurassic, I mean all of them visually just phenomenal, but I think the original Jurassic would hold up ever so well. Yeah. If you said, right, you've seen that new Jurassic World, how good was that? Well, go and watch this. I think most kids would go away and be, you know, just as blown away.

SPEAKER_02 16:33

Yeah, it's it's fascinating. I do, I do love the the the links between kind of the and particularly Force Awakens year that came out, and they were both trying to do the same thing. They're both trying to re-energize the the fandom and get everybody excited and kind of telling a similar story to New Hope and to Jurassic Park, but with you know um added flair and you know Panas and whatever they yeah they're both soft reboots.

SPEAKER_00 16:59

I mean, really I mean Lucasfilm would never admit that with Star Wars, but I've I've had a couple of people who worked for Lucasfilm basically say, Yeah, it's a soft reboot. Of course it's a soft reboot. You you need to re-in- and it was only 10 years for Star Wars, it was only 2005 since Sith. You'd had the Clone Wars in between, so it's not like we hadn't had stuff going on. But with Jurassic, you know, there had been that break. There hadn't been a battle at Little Rock, there hadn't been a uh Camp Cretaceous or any of that stuff. Um it was a complete stop and then boom it comes back. Uh and that I mean Universal must have been thrilled to bits, and you know, Kennedy Marshall and all those those people when when that thing goes and makes 1.6 billion, because by the end of the year, Force Awakens comes out and does silly money as well. So what a great year for both franchises and and sets off two neutralities.

SPEAKER_02 17:45

I I'm I'm interested to see because because of that year, 2015, 10 years ago, where the trajectory of Star Wars went, and there's the link between Frank Marshall and Kathleen Kennedy obviously being married. I'm imagining that there are conversations going on at home. Oh yeah. Frank Marshall can because he's the one really shepherding the Jurassic series now, I think. What what do you think Jurassic could learn from maybe the past ten years of Star Wars?

SPEAKER_00 18:12

That's a very good question. I mean Star Wars is different because Star Wars is Star Wars is a sandbox in that you can, you know, you've got Levy making a new Star Wars film, and it's obviously set in the timeline, but it's not a prequel to anything, it's not a sequel to anything, it doesn't really use any characters that we know. It's the history of what's happened is the history of their world, if you like, but it doesn't connect to anything. So you can do a Star Wars film like that, and you can set it over there in that corner of the galaxy, and everything else can be happening over there, and it's fine, it's still Star Wars, it doesn't, it's not the same thing. Whereas with Jurassic, one thing I liked about Rebirth, really actually liked about Rebirth, was it was none of the same creatures, it was none really of the same characters, it was it was the Jurassic concept uh and and all all the the bits that go with it, but it was fresh enough to still feel and it was definitely made well enough to completely feel like a a classic Jurassic film. I've said that phrase a lot, they say classic Jurassic, but like a classic Jurassic film. And so for me that worked really well, and and I'm chuffed to bits that it made you know the money it did when in July when that came out with Fantastic Four and Superman, I was convinced Fantastic Four was a billion-dollar film, and I thought Superman would do very well. And I thought Jurassic might get a bit lost in the mix. I was certain it the brand was gonna take it to a hefty number, but not I didn't think it would be the champ of the three of those in July, I really didn't. So I was thrilled to bits with that. Um but what can what could Jurassic learn? I I like that they did the animated show. I wish it had had a bit more of a realistic looking aesthetic, if that makes sense, but I get that it was pitched more at kids, and that's certainly something Star Wars did with Resistance back in the day, and it does it really does it now with young Jedi Adventures, and there's other stuff coming. So Star Wars is a broader palette in that sense. One thing I think's not weirdly helped Star Wars, and this is gonna sound weird because we've had so much good stuff, is live-action Star Wars streaming on Disney Plus, because we haven't had a Star Wars live action film for seven years, and now we've got Mandalorian and Grogu coming. Seven years, 2019, yeah. So so you've got Mandalore and Grogu out in May, which can't not look like a big screen version of the TV show, it just can't, because they make the TV shows so well they look like cinema. Most of the new TV shows they'll do uh uh like a premiere or a press screening thing down in London. So I'll travel down and we'll watch an episode of Ahsoka on the IMAX, and it's like wow, you know, it's mind-blowing, and yet you get home and uh you know watch it on the tell. I think with Jurassic, because it's always been a tremendous spectacle, you know, it is part. That's one thing I've got to say, one thing James Cameron does brilliantly with Avatar is that parts of those films feel like nature documentaries, yeah, and I mean that in a very positive complimentary sense. And Jurassic has moments, not not much, but moments where you just sit back and go, Wow, you know, it's it's the it's morking with dinosaurs, it's uh you know, it's it's oh what's that showing Apple the dinosaur thing and that's the planet, yeah. You know, it's that it's moments of that when you just sit back and soak it up. Yeah, I think if they did a Jurassic show on television, the spectacle would become so I can I can put I can hit the pause button and go make a cup of tea, come back and carry on. Yeah, it's the difference to me being an old fight, it's the difference between listening to a song you love on the radio and you can't hit pause, or listening to it on cassette when you can hit pause. It's grabbed your attention because you can't hit pause and walk out, do something else and come back. You watch a movie on television, you can pause, rewind, do whatever you want. If you're watching it the cinema, if you need a Wii, you're gonna miss three minutes. You know, so that's the difference to me. So I think Jurassic, whilst I know ILM and other effects houses, because it's not just ILM anymore, they've got to bring other houses. Would would smash it and it would look amazing. And I've no doubt they get great casting. You know, I'm sure if they said to Scarlett Hansen, to come back and do a season of Jurassic Rebirth to TVs, she'd be like, Yep. You know, she'd do it in a heartbeat. Um, I don't know whether that would actually help Jurassic as a as a franchise. That being said, I wouldn't say no. If they were doing it, I'll be all over it.

SPEAKER_02 22:20

So I've never really thought of it as as that way, and as that ties into sort of what I think Rebirth did really well. And even though trailers show a lot of what's going on in the film, that doesn't really matter and doesn't seem to really impact the box office, it didn't impact the box office of Jurassic at all. Whereas I think just what you were saying then about those stories, the the kind of Marvel stories, we've almost now become used to the stories, so we can see them on whatever format we like. Yeah. We don't really we know it works on the TV, so we'll just wait until Fantastic Four comes to Disney Plus because I know about that, I just want the story, I don't mind seeing it on a big screen. Whereas having the restriction and going, This is the only way to see a dinosaur in real size.

SPEAKER_00 23:08

Oh, totally. And and I think it there's an exclusivity to it not being easily accessible. Yeah. And and and so star okay. I obviously gonna go back to Star Wars. You know, when that came out in 77, 78 here, really, we had to wait two years for Empire, but it wasn't on Telly in between Star Wars and Empire. There was little Super 8 clips, there was little you know clips you could get. It wasn't on video till October 82. So more people saw Star Wars and then went to see Jedi and didn't see Empire until that came out in '84, and didn't see Jedi if they missed it at the cinema or on then missed the triple bill the next year until '86 when that came out. So the fact that you couldn't just pick up your phone and watch it, like I you know, I could watch anything I want within two minutes, I could be watching it on my phone. The fact that you can't do that, that you've got to make the effort almost, and now we're in a we're just a lazy society now because we're so used to everything being accessible, you know, just eat me dinners at the door in ten minutes, you know, it's that kind of world. So, but I think for the old for the older franchises, Jurassic kind of comes in at the back end of that. But the the fact that you had to go to the cinema, you had to make a night of it. Uh, I mean, not that going to the cinema for four people these days is an affordable thing. It's really not. Yeah. So I think they've kind of made a mistake, they being that the industry have made a real mistake with the streamers by by sort of making things so quickly accessible. You know, you mentioned Fantastic Four come out in July, and it's been on Disney Plus for like three or four weeks already, and it's only December. You know, when Jurassic came out, you know, in June, May or June, wasn't it, June of 93.

SPEAKER_02 24:43

You know, that wasn't on home video for but I I didn't actually see it at the cinema. I had to wait until I think 94 at some point, maybe even the August or September of 94. That's when I first was able to watch it and kind of watched it until it, you know, fuzzy screen.

SPEAKER_00 25:00

Yeah. But that's but it totally, but that's that's I mean the pirate era. I saw some of us remember the original pirate era, you know, when when it was the pre-certification stuff, and then you know, you'd have a mate whose dad would work on the aura rigs and they'd bring back some really shonky copy of Return of the Jedi with the heads at the bottom of the screen and Mexican literally people who could talk it because it was filmed in Mexico, so you could hear the Mexican people talking in the crowd and stuff, you know, real m mixed bandit stuff, you know, on the edge of being able to get hold of these copies of films that you didn't see at the cinema. So first time I saw E.T. was in 90 oh eighty-four or eighty-five on holiday, and the resort we were staying at, they got pirate copies of E.T., so these really rubbish copies of E.T., but but but then it was back when comic adaptations would come out at the same time as the film, or sometimes before. So I had the Topps cop Topps did the adaptation of Jurassics, or I had the Topps comics, and you know, so things like that. So you grab your information and uh all they'd always do like a souvenir magazine with little press junket type interviews, you know, and give you a little insight into what Kathle Kennedy thought, what Spielberg thought, what you know, a couple of quotes from the actors, big chunk about ILM's work and stuff. You know, so you got an idea of who was what and what it was all about.

SPEAKER_02 26:16

I used to I I still love it now, but if I enjoy a film, I immediately want to listen to the soundtrack. Yes. That's my way of kind of really reliving the film again, is to And connect into it. Yeah, yeah, connecting to it on a on that sort of level. I I suppose whether there's also the fear as well, because Catherine Kellandy has come under like some nastiness on online as well about and kind of opening up the the wider the universe gets, the more people can be disappointed, I suppose, as well as as well as love it. And I was thinking about the time when The Last Jedi came out and just the U-turn they had to do to um Rise of Skywalker. And yeah, I just wonder whether Frank Marshall's just s saw all that happening and go, is is there a time where you just go, we can't walk back from this?

SPEAKER_00 27:03

Yeah. Oh, totally. I I again I think with Star Wars, because it's it's a saga, it it's such a galactic story. Seemingly small events, yeah, things in the realms of literally what you want have galactic consequences in Star Wars, or can. Uh and so yeah, Rise has got uh sorry, Last Jedi is a great example because that literally split the fandom. I mean, you you look at it and go, oh, 50 there, 50 there. It's not, it's 70 there and 30 there, but that 30% are really loud. So it feels more you know, more of a thing than it m perhaps might might be. And the big mistake with that particular trilogy and it's weird because it's kind of the same with with the second Jurassic trilogy, you know, with Trevorro doing first and third and JJ doing the first and third, and you look back and go, I wish they'd both just done a trilogy. Yeah, you know, Star Wars looking at it, even though I actually like nine, I'm not a mad fan of eight, but I like nine. I kind of wish a different director had done that. I I'd love to have seen Trevaro's version of nine. With Dominion, I really like Dominion because Dominion is, I mean, at the time I think it felt like that was that was it done and Jurassic finished. Yeah. And so bringing in the the three from the first one blended so well with the characters from the second trilogy, better than I thought. You know, the part characters and the world characters mix really well. So I didn't I didn't mind that at all, and that's weird. Fallen Kingdoms. I'm not a mad fan of. I like the first half on the island. It's a bit like Fall Metal Jacket. I like it when they're training, but I don't like it when they go to war. It's a bit like that. When they get to the house, then it becomes what that's it doesn't work for me. Yeah, there's definitely lessons to be learned, but I just think Jurassic's more of a concept. Yes. Whereas Star Wars is a definable, you can pick locations, you can pick time periods, it's a place to tell stories, whereas Jurassic is a concept to tell stories. So I think you can go off and do other things. And you know, uh the the whole John Millier stuff with the you know turn uh dino soldiers and all that stuff. I'm glad they didn't go down that route when they were thinking of going down that route, but if they ever get to that point, I'd be monster interested to see it. Yeah. You know, I I don't know how I mean there's moments in in Jurassic World, you know, when forgive me what Henry Henry Boom. Yeah, when he's sort of very coy about what goes into the Indominus, and you kind of see them working out, oh that's part of Raptor, oh that's part of this, oh that's part chameleon, or whatever, you know, or the blends that go in. So there's options there to tell other stories. But what I liked about rebirth was people were sort of ragging on it a little bit about oh, that's silly, that's not right, that's silly, that's not right. And I and I said to loads of people, don't forget that none of these are dinosaurs, they're all recreated DNA recreations of dinosaurs. They're not actually dying, you know what I mean? They're they're genetically recreated to look like dinosaurs, they're all monsters. So if you get some crazy thing coming in like like in the latest film, what why not?

SPEAKER_02 30:05

You know, and I think Gareth is very much part of that. So when designing the creatures, let's have the most extreme version, we can dial it back. But he didn't want any creative avenue cut off from from from that film, and that's why I think you end up and his Godzilla as well. Yeah, there's big ties between his which was just I remember watching Godzilla in the cinema and thinking, oh, maybe a maybe that was twenty 2014. And I thought, uh, maybe a Jurassic would work now if this is what it would look like. It's taken us that length of time to actually get to that aesthetic, I suppose. And I you are right, it is, it's there isn't, and actually I was chatting with Tom Jurassic about that there is no Jurassic Bible, yeah whereas I imagine there is for Star Wars and for Marvel. Yeah, yeah. That here's here's your timeline, this is what happens. Rather, Jurassic is more of a it's more of a a feeling or a a sense.

SPEAKER_00 31:00

Oh, that's so true. Star Wars, Star Wars now going forward is not a slave to what's gone before, but they can't discard what's gone before because the difference is with Star Wars, and I think sometimes they lose sight of this. There's a timeline, there's a chronology, and there's you know, actions and consequences, and a new film can't ignore any of that, it has to take all that on board. There's so many people going, oh, it's just tell a great Star Wars story and ignore the path. It's not a Star Wars story, then is it? It's you know, put put that over there somewhere, make your own film. Star Wars has history and a logic, and and and it that if you can tell a Star Wars story and you want to do that in that parameter, do it, and you can expand the boundaries of that, but it's got to fit into that. With Jurassic, I think it's it's as much about you you've mentioned aesthetic a few times. I so agree with that. There's a sheen and a and a luster to to Jurassic and a lot almost the emulsion of the film. Yeah, you know, Spielberg wants to cut with Michael Kahn on on print and celluloid, it's that kind of vibe. Yeah, so so as long as you can sort of adhere to that, and it still looks like if you could if you put a uh um a load of clips together from Jurassic and from Fallen Kingdom and then from Lost World and Jurassic 3 and Rebirth, and you put them all together, they should all just go pop. And you shouldn't go, oh that doesn't look right. You know, everything should you should be able to put the Spinosaurus from 3 next to the Spinosaurus from Rebirth. I know the one from three is a lot bigger, but you know, and put them together and and not think, oh wow, look at the difference in quality that they should just look like they live together, you know. Totally. So I think that's a big key thing for Jurassic. What I'm saying in a very long-winded way is uh it's it's about the vibe and about the tone of it. You know, Jurassic is you know, the foot going down and the water splitting, you know, think all the spoon and the jelly, and just there's little snappy moments in Jurassic that people go, ah, that's Jurassic, clever girl. You know, there's just little moments that you remember from Jurassic. Hold on to your butts, and there's all these moments. As long as there's things that kind of not copy but kind of evoke enough that you go those feelings, yeah. Exactly that it just uh that feels like a Jurassic thing. I think that works for Jurassic in a way that Star Wars has just it feels more constrained with Star Wars, it's not we've got a galaxy to tell Star Wars stories. You can only tell Jurassic stories on Earth, but you can you know you can tell Star Wars stories anywhere in that galaxy, so it's not constrained at all, but but sometimes people act like there's that these things are a barrier. It's like no, these are a gift in Star Wars, and in Jurassic, I think similarly, you know, that's why I like rebirth. It's just it's it's pitching it out there a little bit, you know, the island before the island. Yeah, I get the logic of that. I like that. And why would they destroy it? It's a tax break, it's it's like why would you kill that thing if they spent hundreds of millions on it, you know? Let just let it eat the local fauna and leave it alone, no one's going back there. Of course, they go back there, you know. So I liked all of the contrivances of that.

SPEAKER_02 34:00

So for me as a as a fan, I think what I'm and I don't know whether you're the same as when you sit down, when I sit down and watch a new Jurassic, I want to be taken back to that moment when I first fell in love with these films. And I think Rebirth did that for me so well with I don't know, starting with a helicopter that looked like the helicopter from Jurassic, yeah. Um, the music kicking in when they're setting off on the mission. Yeah, just like it's those it's those beats or the titanosaurs in the field and the big wide shot of them all parading through. And just like those hit me in the moment of just like this uh this feels right, and I'm not bogged down by the story of it at all, really, because that is my feelings about it and my experience of sitting in a cinema and watching it supersedes anything to do with story sometimes for me. It's all about can you win me over in proving that you know what you're dealing with?

SPEAKER_00 34:58

Totally, oh totally, yeah. And there's there's a confidence when they get it right, and you can kind of almost sit back in your seat and these guys have got it, you know, not in a patronizing way, no, not that I know better than they know, but it's like, yeah, these guys they've got it in the pocket here. That I I know I'm gonna this is gonna be fun, you know. And there's bits like you say at the beginning of rebirth, some character stuff, yeah, and they've always got to give you a little bit of motivation. And the one film I always look I always go back to that people rag on and still rag on, and I loved it when it came out. I actually saw it in the States the next time I went back in the 90s, Independence Day. So epic, huge, what more could be at stake than what's at stake in in Independence Day? But uh sort of the first third of that film, you're introduced to a lot of characters very quickly, and they're all given just enough of a backstory that you give a damn when they don't make it. And so I I really love that about about Independence Day, they're not labouring the point, they're just giving you enough about these people, snappy banter, yeah, the world's about to end, half of them don't see it coming. It's all about the dog not dying, really, you know, and all these you know, these things that are happening in that film, and I think sometimes Jurassic does that really well, it just gives you enough. Rebirth did it, you know, the backstory for Duncan and what happened there, and yeah, you know, and and Zora's history with the mission that just went wrong, and yeah, she's just trying to book herself up and get back out there, and just all these things that the characters are doing, and there's just enough, you know, a couple of minutes just taking the steam out of the of the action just for them to let you know that why I'm here and this is why I'm doing it. Because it's so easy to just write these cardboard characters, and so I I like that the fact that you you learn just enough to go, Well, I I'm rooting for you now. Yeah, you know, and even the bad guys, I mean, you know, Jurassic's had plenty of bad guys you you're quite glad they get stomped on a reach, you know. And in this one, you know, um a Rupert Friend's character whose name has dropped out man, um, you know, he there's moments where even he you're like he's he's all he's not that bad, he's not a completely bad you could see it coming, but you think okay, maybe there's a way around this, because you kind of hope that there's a way around these things, but also there's that little bit of thinking, someone's got to get eaten, you know.

SPEAKER_02 37:12

And and and I like the fact with his character that like we know as an audience, we know he's bad before the rest of the people that he's then spends the rest of the film with, yeah. Because he essentially doesn't help that, which is a big bit from the Lost World novel, doesn't help her back onto the boat and lets her go. Yeah, and the fact that we see him pick up the gun, so we know he's got a gun, yeah. We're the only people that know that, and you're just waiting for the moment when the two groups come back together where you think it's finally gonna happen. This is the confrontation. Yeah, I love conflict in in films, particularly those sorts, you know. A Jurassic film's great when you get a bunch of people stranded or together, they don't know themselves whether they can trust each other.

SPEAKER_00 37:51

That was the cool thing in Jurassic 3 though, wasn't it? Where you had the the one character with the eggs, you know. Uh I'm terrible with that. You know, Billy, that's it, you know, and and of course he turns out to you know his heroic moments at the end and it all comes good. But yeah, just just just enough doubt that you you know you're wondering which way they're gonna swing. So so Jurassic does that great, and and I I just I just wonder what the status of things would be going forward, because I know there's rumours that that Gareth might be doing another one, yeah, you know, and there's certainly enough scope there.

SPEAKER_02 38:24

Well, what I quite also quite liked about Rebirth is the fact that it didn't set up an ending. He's he said he wanted to create a film that felt like it'd been lost in the vaults of Universal in the 90s, yeah. And was just like, here's a beginning, middle, and end. And he said that gives creative choice to whoever comes next, if it's me or somebody else, that they don't have to pick up anything that I've left dangling. Yeah, it's it's it's here for you can go back to this island if you want to. This this is one story.

SPEAKER_00 38:52

But it was smart though, because it didn't didn't cost them didn't cost silly money, did it?

SPEAKER_02 38:56

No. I think because of the creator, and I love the fact that he went, Oh, you think you have to spend this much money to make a a big sci-fi film with like special effects because you don't, you know.

SPEAKER_00 39:06

No, was that 80 million, something like that?

SPEAKER_02 39:07

Yeah, yeah. There's this the standard. Yeah. I was wondering, just to sort of wrap up, whether there was any any sort of pinch me moments that you've had kind of in your in with your kind of connection to the Star Wars fandom and Star Trek. There's got so many different fandoms, but those those moments where you find yourself as a fan again just sat there.

SPEAKER_00 39:27

Oh yeah. Um well I interviewed Gareth a few years ago, I mean before rebirth. Um so it was the but he lives he grew up about 20 miles from where I live, so in Dunneaton. So So he um I met him, I met him at the Force Awakens after party, long story, but I managed to get into the after party. Um and everyone was there, it was amazing. And and he was just sort of stood about 10 yards away. Uh, and I was with my wife who's who's in a wheelchair, and me and the wife were just talking, and I looked over and I saw him and said, Oh wow, that's Gareth Edwards. And then he looked at me, and Ruth went, Do you know him? I went, Well, yeah, that's Gareth Edwards. She's got no idea who Gareth Edwards is, no idea. And she went, Well, he's looking at you like he knows you. So I thought, blow it, I might as well go over and say that's all I wondered over. Oh yeah, uh Mark from you know, I used to uh uh work on a song called Jedi News at the time. So it's Mark from Jedi News and Star Wars News, and we just started chatting, and we must have talked for about 15 minutes. And his girlfriend and I don't know, I think they might be married now, but his partner at the time she came over and she was talking to Ruth and Yaddy had her, and we're just having a chit-chat, and I'm obviously knowing he's working on Rogue One, how's Rogue One going? Oh, yeah, it's going great, yeah. We've got about three days of editing to go. I've got to leave this party early because I've got to get home early, I've got an early start to finish editing. Talk for 10 minutes, shakes hands and off he goes. Couple of email exchanges in the in the in-between time for various things to do with Star Wars-related stuff, and then he did a screening of Rogue One in Nuniton at the old cinema uh there charity thing. Uh, and and me and a couple of the folks from the site I'm with now, Fantas, uh, went upstairs at the cinema and had a 45-minute interview with him. And that was one of, and I've been very lucky over the years because I interviewed Irving Kirshner, who was directed Empire and Rick McCullum, who produced the prequels, and I've interviewed a lot of people, so I've been very lucky. Um, but it was one of those moments, certainly in relation to Jurassic, really the big one, years before we did Jurassic, um, uh just just to just to have a chat with the guy and and be he's so interested and so giving and like just explaining everything. And then when when Rebirth came out, by now I'm writing for ILM.com, so we were trying to organise an interview for ILM with Gareth, which never quite came off. Uh, but the obviously the David Vickery one did come off. Um, but I'd put a tweet out after seeing the press screening of Rebirth, uh, and Variety picked it up and started sharing it. And so Gareth's PA lady at Universal, I'd been conversing with her, because he does he his his niece has got Angelman syndrome. Um and we on Fanther have done a lot of charity fundraising for Angelmans over the years. So he occasionally will sign posters and we'll just sell them at conventions and to raise money for it. So we were just organising some of that. Uh, and just share, I shared the link of the variety thing, and he wrote back and thanked us because apparently it had you know helped. I don't know how that helps. Um so I I'll claim a little part of that. But yeah, so so yeah, so there's been some communication with him over the years, which has been great because he's such a he's an easygoing.

SPEAKER_02 42:29

He seems like quite a down-to-earse person.

SPEAKER_00 42:31

Yeah, he'd be in on this. If there were three of us, this would be the same conversation, he wouldn't dominate it. You wouldn't, you know what I mean? It would just it would just be a proper round robbing conversation. He's yeah, he's very easy to talk to.

SPEAKER_02 42:42

Yeah, well, I'll have to work on that.

SPEAKER_00 42:43

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:47

Um so what what what are you excited about for 2026 uh in terms of Star Wars or or anything?

SPEAKER_00 42:53

Oh, anything. Um I'm I'm where are we now? 26. So Amanda McGrogu's out on the 22nd of May, so obviously very much looking forward to that. I'm personally hoping to get to the States in the summer for the the summer, the Lucasum summer picnic, which I've never been to, so I'm trying to sweet talk somebody into making that happen. Um I I usually go to New York Comic Con in the autumn and haven't been for a couple of years, so it's the 20th anniversary of Comic-Con, so I really, really want to go to that. Uh, but the the thing that might stop that is that me and my wife are going to Orlando in September, so it might not be doable. Uh I might not be the most popular person in the world if I do that. Um, but yeah, just just looking forward to another with the website I do is very busy and there's lots going on there, which I really enjoy. Uh writing for ILM is a joy because, as I say, you know, I I I've done a couple of articles about Andor this year. I wrote a piece about Thunderbolts. I also write for Skullwork Assan, so I'm just doing a piece about Zootopia 2. And there's, you know, we do vintage stuff, so I've got a piece on Bats of the Future coming up. So there's all sorts of different things that we work on there. So there's it's a nice mixed palette of things. It's not just Star Wars. Yeah. Which is why I like I don't write so much for Starburst now, but but with the previous editor, I used to do a bit more, and it was quite varied. And I like the research. I like digging into things. I do enjoy that. So um and and again, uh with ILM doing the the David Vickery piece, and I know that they're pushing hard with the Oscar push um for that. Um yeah, it's interesting. It's it's nice, just it's nice to uh yeah, but day-to-day bread and butter is the Star Wars stuff, but it's nice to filter off because that ILM connection is so broad and sort of as a foot in so many camps.

SPEAKER_02 44:37

It's uh it's just constantly evolving and they're always pushing themselves to be yeah, better. You know, next show's gonna be better than the one before.

SPEAKER_00 44:44

Yeah, and but they they they really love the history of it. And and I love the history, like being in fandom, I I'm I appreciate the history of the fandom that I'm in and and the lineage of that, and then folks come and go because that's life. But you know, I uh there's a pattern, there's a sort of a a roadmap of that which I enjoy and appreciate. And ILM are the same, you know. They like you say they go back to I mean, really strictly speaking, on Star Wars, they won't even call ILM, but you know, it it was ILM, you know, and a lot of those guys did close encounters, you could kind of consider that ILM, but it's not really, but you know, there's there's all these different things that connect. Yeah, I I do I do enjoy that. So 26, yeah, I think it's gonna be a good year. Um I mean, like this year it will go like that.

SPEAKER_02 45:24

I can't believe it's I can't believe it's the 50th uh Star Wars, which will be. I'm I'm I'm I'm looking forward to because I've never seen any of the originals on the big screen. So I'm I'm very much looking forward to uh re-releasing. I won't spoil any of them for you, don't worry. No. Fab. Um I was wondering um how people can find you online if indeed you want them to.

SPEAKER_00 45:47

Oh, I'm I'm open to abuse, it's fine. Um you can generally find me at Fanthatrax, so F-A-N-T-H-A-Tracks, C K S. Uh so at Fantatrax.com, which is where the website is, and all the socials are at Fanthertracks. But if you want to find me, I'm also a Hitchhikers fan, so you can find me at Prefect, P-R-E-F-E-C-T, prefect underscore timing, and that's me on on all socials as well.

SPEAKER_02 46:12

Fan. Well, thank you so much for joining me today, and yeah, have a have have a great 2026.

SPEAKER_00 46:19

I will. And you, thanks for this, we really enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_02 46:22

A big thank you to Mark Newbold for giving his time to chat to me about rebirth, Star Wars, Pirate VHSs, and uh everything in between. I had a great time, and I think what he says about Jurassic and that issue it might face going to the small screen and losing that special quality that the cinematic experience has, it's it it's a real double-edged sword, I think, having your cake and eating it, being a fan where the streaming is concerned. I'd love to hear your thoughts about all we discussed, so please head over to at Jurassic Pirates Pod on Instagram to follow the show, and also there you can keep updated with my plans for 2026. In a couple of weeks I'll be putting together a special launch episode for the new season, but I can reveal that it will be about the literary journey of the prehistoric past. Starting with Jules Verne's classic Journey to the Centre of the Earth, taking in Edgar Ice Burroughs, Arthur Conan Doyle, Dinotopia, Anne McCathry, Ray Bradbury, right through to Primitive War and Into the Mist by Lee Murray, a new story for me. It's going to be a lot of fun reading all these stories and getting some great guests, old and new, onto the show as well. But until then, I'll just say thank you so much for listening. Happy New Year again and I'll be seeing you soon.