Road to Rebirth: The Film Episodes

Before Season 2 begins, here’s every film episode from Season 1 in one place!

Season 1 of The Pirates Don’t Eat The Tourists was called Road to Rebirth. Over the course of the season, we worked our way through all seven Jurassic films, from Spielberg’s original in 1993 to Jurassic World Rebirth in 2025. 

This compilation brings together all seven film episodes as a single listen. Perfect for catching up before Stones to Stories begins on 3rd June, or for new listeners wanting to understand where the show came from.

Episodes included: Jurassic Park (1993) with Derrick Davis · The Lost World: Jurassic Park (1997) with Caleb Burnett · Jurassic Park III (2001) with Daniel Stephen · Jurassic World (2015) with Brad Jost · Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom (2018) with Samantha Endres · Jurassic World: Dominion (2022) with Sam Phillips and Jack Ewins · Jurassic World Rebirth (2025) with James Mottram and Derrick Davis

Transcript

SPEAKER_08 0:16

Hello, and welcome back to Road to Rebirth. I'm Roland Squire. Each week, in the lead up to Jurassic World Rebirth, I'm sitting down with a guest to discuss an entry or aspect of the Jurassic franchise. And this week I'm talking about Steven Spielberg's 1993 film Jurassic Park. Joining me in my endeavour to discuss all things Jurassic Park is Derek Davis. Now, for people who don't know Derek, um he's been part of the Jurassic Park um community, fan community, for nearly 20 years now. He started the YouTube channel Jurassic Time and has produced several audio dramas based on Jurassic Park um scripts and properties like the Trespasser um video game. We will discuss all of that in today's episode. Um but he's also somebody who has unearthed many hidden treasures and behind-the-scenes secrets and conducted lots of interviews with the people who were involved in the production of Jurassic Park. It's a fun conversation, so let's just dive straight in. Please welcome to the show Derek Davis. Hi Derek, how are you doing? I'm doing good. How about you? Yeah, I'm good. I'm good. I'm excited to be talking about Jurassic Park. Um but first, are you excited for Rebirth?

SPEAKER_10 1:45

I am, but I'm apprehensive, and I'll try to explain why. You know, after Jurassic World Dominion ended, it had an ending. It may not have been the best ending, but it had an ending. But then, you know, having Kep involved and having Gareth Edwards involved, which I think is great because I wish he would have done a Jurassic movie, you know, like two or three movies ago. Yeah. He's such a good talent. But from the story, the pat the fact that they're walking back, the dinosaurs kind of being everywhere, and now they're kind of died off. I I just don't know if going back to you know an isolated place is really what it has led up to. I kind of wish it would have been like a mid-quill, like a story between Jurassic Park 3 and Jurassic World. I think that would have made a lot more sense than doing this kind of thing.

SPEAKER_08 2:39

But yeah, I feel like maybe we're getting that but a s that kind of story but a sequel. When kind of looking at Jurassic Park and um Spielberg's like taking of the book and things, he he seems uninterested in dinosaurs out in the real world or that being part of because that's a big part of Michael Crichton's book and and The Lost World, his his sequel, but Spielberg wasn't really interested in having that in the first film, and the bit at the end of The Lost World where he just puts in the T-Rex is his kind of nod to King Kong more than anything.

SPEAKER_10 3:13

And you know, I don't really have a huge problem with that. Like honestly, I do agree that going back to an isolated location is a lot more interesting and intense of a story than just having them everywhere and and coexisting as the end of the dominion made it made its message be, which I'm just like, I don't buy that. You know, like I don't really in today's world, especially, I don't believe that for a second. I'm in the kind of mindset where you know I it remains to be seen. Like, show me, let me see how you did this, and then I'll either like it or I'll not care for it that much. So I'm yeah, I'm I'm cautiously optimistic, I guess is what I'm simply that's probably the safest thing to be, I think, for the seventh form of a franchise. Oh yeah, but there is there is one thing I am definitely excited for, and that is the the lagoon sequence that we're finally getting from the novel. Yeah, I'm sure you you saw that coming.

SPEAKER_08 4:07

Yeah, no, yeah, very, very excited for that.

SPEAKER_10 4:11

Yeah, yeah. It's it's been a long time coming. I mean, that sequence has such a ride almost literally, too, because it was originally going to be in the movie and it was in the early scripts and everything, which I know we'll get at, but it was also turned into a ride that they were creating before the first movie was even released, which is kind of insane if you think about that.

SPEAKER_07 4:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 4:32

And, you know, some people would argue, yeah, we got a bit of that in Jurassic Park 3 with the Spinosaurus, you know, against the boat. But having a a dinosaur, especially a T-Rex, is you know, everyone just loves T-Rex, but having any dinosaur in the water coming up from under a raft, an inflatable raft, you know, such a thin membrane of plastic between you and whatever's underneath, you know, that's terrifying. A lot more terrifying than being in like a sturdy boat, you know what I mean? So yeah.

SPEAKER_08 5:02

And it's just a standout moment from the novel. Um, so I t so I take you're a fan of Jurassic Park. That's probably certainly obvious then.

SPEAKER_10 5:11

Just a bit, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 5:14

So, how do you feel about trying to sum up Jurassic Park in this one episode? Can it be done?

SPEAKER_10 5:21

Oh man, I don't, you know, um the movie maybe. The book is a whole different beast. I don't know if I could sum up the whole book because the it's such an interesting adaptation because it is very close to the book, but also very different from the book at the same time. It's kind of somehow able to accomplish both. It's both good a good adaptation and also not at the same time. It's really really interesting.

SPEAKER_08 5:48

So I wondered whether you could kick us off with a synopsis for Jurassic Park.

SPEAKER_10 5:53

Ooh, okay. Well, I guess uh let's start with the artists. Okay, no pressure. Sorry, Michael Crichton, if I screw any of this up or Steven Spielberg. Um so basically the premise is there is an island that has secretly been cloning dinosaurs for the past few years, and they're about to open its park to the public. But before they do that, they are inviting some esteemed people, including paleontologists and a mathematician, to come inspect the island and make sure that it is safe for their guests. But unfortunately, even though the park is quite extraordinary as they tour it, something does go wrong, and the dinosaurs break loose, havoc ensues, a few people die. But uh, at the very end of the day, they all are I mean, not all, but um several of them are able to safely escape the island, and it is safe to say that the park will not open. That's my clip notes version. Thanks.

SPEAKER_08 6:56

And the bit about the end, I always think about this. At the end, when the helicopter arrives, like when they first made that call, do you think they went, so how many helicopters do I need to send? Because quite a few people uh no, no, no, just one helicopter will do.

SPEAKER_10 7:10

Yeah, just one. But there's like two of us left, so you just yeah, with just one.

SPEAKER_08 7:15

What what what's your earliest memory about seeing it?

SPEAKER_10 7:19

Oh, that's that's kind of a fun story. So let's go back in time to summer of 1993. I was about six years old, little kid Derek, little brat kid Derek. And I was playing in a park, like an actual park, that was not far from a big drive-in theater. We used to have a drive-in theater in our town. And I saw the movie playing on the screen without audio, just like a certain moment. I honestly can't remember what moment it was. I think it was like the the lunch scene, you know, with the projectors going and everything. I saw that.

SPEAKER_06 7:53

Yes, yep, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_10 7:55

And then I saw like, you know, the visitor center exterior with like the dinosaur skeleton on it. And I was like, mom, dad, what's that movie? And they said, Oh, that's Jurassic Park. I'm like, oh, I want to see that. Like, isn't that the one with dinosaurs? Or like, yeah, but it's it's probably gonna be too scary for you. Cause you know, I was six and like 90s kids weren't that you know hard shelled yet. We hadn't seen all the craziness that came after. Um, and but I insisted for at least a few weeks. I was like, I really want to see it. People at kids at school were starting to talk about it, which is like, oh no, well, now I'm not cool because I haven't seen it. Yeah, so they finally caved in and then we went to the drive-in theater to see it, which you know, if anyone's ever been to a drive-in theater, um, depending on the quality of the of the few that still exists, you know, it can be kind of a magical, unique experience, you know, very different than any other watching a movie, honestly. Um, you know, being outdoors and having cars parked around you, you know, and they're kind of like either sitting in their car or right outside it, kind of thing, and the speakers are either on like on a pole or it's from your car stereo, which I'm like, how did people's car batteries not die? I don't know. But um, yeah, so we watched it in the drive, and I remember I was in our car was like in reverse, and like the trunk was open, and like me and my sister were like in the trunk, kind of just watching it from there. And it I remember being terrified. I I think especially the T-Rex breakout, but for whatever reason, the spitter was what freaked me out the most because you know it acts all nice at first. You're like, oh, kind of cute, you know, and then suddenly, you know, the the hood flares open, it's spinning at you at him, and you know, it's a scary moment. And it's like, how do we go from zero to a hundred? You know what I mean? It's like what happened here. So kid Derek was terrified. I I remember having nightmares, but then for whatever reason, I got over it and I was like, I want to see it again. My parents were like, Why? You're so scared. I'm like, I don't know why, but I need to see it again. So then I kept going back and watching it ever since. I've been that's been my favorite movie.

SPEAKER_08 10:08

Yeah. So I don't I don't actually remember the first I was trying to think today that I don't actually remember the first time I watched it. Um I didn't see it at the cinema or a drive-in. Um and I think that was down to the fact that I was far too scared of the Muppet Christmas Carol that came out um the Christmas before. Okay.

SPEAKER_06 10:27

And uh yeah, I hid under my dad's coat.

SPEAKER_08 10:30

It is. It's it's when the um when when the door knocker changes and it screams. That did me. Yeah. I was so that kind of nixed any of my begging to try and go and see this film when it came to the cinema. But I just always remember it being there. I remember the endless wait for it to arrive on video, which uh like it was probably about ten years at that time. It is part of me. And I've you know I've seen it a thousand times in including today, just before uh recording. And every time I see something new and um yeah, I I it what uh amazed me actually today is having just read uh the novel, reread the novel, is its pace and efficiency. Uh that first scene with a raptor is just so brilliant and mysterious.

SPEAKER_10 11:24

Oh, definitely. Do you mean like the like the prologue where we don't even see it, we just see the results of it's a tag? Yeah, it is brilliant.

SPEAKER_08 11:31

It owes a lot to Jaws, um, and particularly the the the inciting incident. Um it's a big part of Jurassic films.

SPEAKER_10 11:39

Yeah, and sadly not all of them.

SPEAKER_08 11:41

No, but most of them. Most of them. And I think David kept a just such a fantastic job of um taking that rather wordy Crichton book and um just you know packaging that up and making it, you know, a a blockbuster film. You've I I take it you've read the book.

SPEAKER_10 11:59

Oh, yeah, several times. I especially love um rereading it, well, rereading it, air quotes as an audio book, and there's a couple out there that are unabridged. Um, my favorite being a kind of a rare one by William Roberts, where he just gets so into it. Like, especially the main road attack, like he's almost growling as he's talking. Like it's not actually growling, but it's like you feel that visceral terror by the way he reads it, and like, oh my god. Um but and actually, there in the 90s, there's an abridged audiobook read by John the late John Hurd, um aka The Father from Home Alone, of all people. And it was pretty good for its time, but you know, it's an abridged like three-hour version, so you know it like cuts a bunch of stuff out.

SPEAKER_08 12:45

You love the music of it, it has some sound effects as well, doesn't it? Yeah, I remember long car journeys.

SPEAKER_10 12:51

Oh, yeah. And actually, I took it upon myself to actually find all the music from that version. It's all stock music, yeah. And I was using like YouTube to like identify it because you know how YouTube can identify audio. So I was kind of using it like to help me find it instead of actually being like a copyright strike kind of thing. It's like you know, using its own tools to help me identify things. So I was able to find using that, all the music from that. And it was all stock music from different people, it wasn't just made by one person.

SPEAKER_08 13:21

You know, Ket wasn't the first person to attempt to adapt this film by any means. Who was the first person to try and try and do this for Spielberg?

SPEAKER_10 13:29

Well, the first person was actually Michael Crichton himself, which not everyone really knows. Um, and I have some I have some notes here, everyone, by the way, just so I don't screw up some of this history and um mess anything up as best as I can. I kind of wrote a lot of this from memory, but I kind of double checked some things. But uh basically, Michael Crichton completed two complete drafts. The first one was in September of 1990, which is crazy because the novel came out in November 1990. So he was working on the script before his book was even officially published. Like there was galleys, what they call, like, you know, um early reader copies going to people involved in the production, and obviously when it was being shopped to different studios. That's the the one good thing about being a famous writer in that at that point in his career. Like, he was able to do that before he even published his work. But anyway, so it's just crazy to me that he was doing this script, you know, broken down version of his own book. And the reason why he did it first was he said that in writing Jurassic Park, because it took him many years to write Jurassic Park, apparently. In fact, at one point, the novel was from the perspective of the kids, you know, Tim and Lex, which is wild. I wish that draft was out there somewhere to see it. Um, but but it eventually became from the perspective of adults, obviously. He didn't want anyone to make any of the same mistakes he did when trying to write his own book when he pared it down for a script. So that was the main reason why he took it upon himself. He always knew that they wouldn't use his script, it was kind of like a stepping stone for the next riders, was how it was done. Um, so yeah, his first draft was in September 1990, and it was mostly like his novel, but it included added moments like Lex going back into the shed at the dock during the lagoon sequence to retrieve her baseball mitt. And she almost gets caught by the T-Rex while doing so. It's like as if she wasn't annoying enough in the book, you know, causing the Rex to come after them. She goes and does this too. So it's like he actually made her even less likable in this script for some reason. Um, the wild thing from this script is that Hammond had a secret radio in his bungalow the whole time. Because remember, um, originally Hammond was kind of not a good person in the book.

SPEAKER_06 15:56

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_10 15:56

So that carried over in this first script. Yeah. So yeah, he had the secret uh like radio in his bungalow the whole time, and then when he's caught, he immediately pours water on it so no one can call the mainland. So and this is after Malcolm's already been injured and everything, so he's like knowingly putting this guy's life on peril, you know, in peril. And it's just wild.

SPEAKER_08 16:22

What a bust.

SPEAKER_10 16:24

I know. I was like, he made him even more evil in this script. It's kind of amazing.

SPEAKER_08 16:29

He had it in for him, didn't they?

SPEAKER_10 16:31

Oh, yeah. I mean, he really wanted um, as he explained it, the dark side of Walt Disney. Like that's what he wanted out of John Hammond in the book, and that's what he got, especially in this. And uh Hammond's death in this script involves a skeleton falling on him when he's inside the visitor center rotunda um after the climax has happened, and then the compies get him, kind of like in the book. So he still dies from compies just in a different setting, basically. So those are kind of like the major things I remember from his original script that were different from the book. Because at that point, there wasn't really many ideas from the production team, it was mostly just stuff that he put in. Um but he did do a second draft in January 1991. There was like some revisions between that, but they were just kind of like sections. So his like second completed draft was in 1991 of January. And the most wild thing I remember from this script is that Nedri mentions how this is his second shipment to Dodson getting the embryos to him. It's the second time he's done this.

SPEAKER_08 17:36

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_10 17:37

Meaning that dinosaur embryos have already gotten off the island. As you can imagine, the implications for the sequels that could have completely changed everything if this detail had remained past this script. But it never went past this script. It was just this one. And I guess just a few other notes from this script. Um, Hammond's death is in a theater room where a video of him is playing on the screen. He plays it to distract the raptors so the kids can get away to safety, you know, during the climax. And when a raptor goes into the theater, it kills Hammond. It after it kills him, it like rips apart the screen where his video is playing of him talking. It's kind of eerie. There's storyboards of that out there, too.

SPEAKER_08 18:18

Oh, really? Okay, yeah, it's cool.

SPEAKER_10 18:20

Uh speaking of raptors, the opening of the script has the the Tina Compi scene on the beach. Yes. But it seems to replace it with a baby raptor instead of a compy. It's kind of unclear because later on in that script it kind of makes it seem like it was a baby raptor.

SPEAKER_06 18:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 18:36

Because I think I think they they got rid of Compis early on. Like there was some storyboards of the Tina beach scene from before the first script, even, but that's like the only time I've ever seen storyboards of the compies. So yeah, that's the Michael Crichton, that's all he did for the movie. He did those two scripts.

SPEAKER_08 18:56

Didn't didn't didn't production shut down at some point?

SPEAKER_10 18:59

Yeah, so um production shut down, I believe, in 1991. Yeah, it was like early 1991, pretty much not long after this script was done by Crichton, because Spielberg went to go film Hook. And during that time, his art department team continued to work while he was doing Hook. Like they didn't just all go home, like they were still trying to storyboard sequences either from Crichton's script or from stuff from the novel, still, or just ideas that they talked about from production meetings. And one of those people did something a little crazy, and that person was Rick Carter, the production designer. Um, and you know, he oversees all the like production of like, you know, the storyboard artists and everything, like David Lowry or like the illustrators like John Bell and everything. Um but what he did was, and it's not something a production designer ever does, he cobbled together a script using Crichton's final draft script that he had provided. He took that script and kind of just rewrote parts of it. Some parts were identical, but most of like the beginning and the ending, especially, were completely rewritten by Rick Carter, who is not a writer. And he he just plopped in these ideas and added his own kind of makeshift dialogue to bring it together. And it's a pretty unique script, which is why you know, me at Jurassic Time, I took a bunch of people and we created a what I call illustrated audio drama of us like performing it with the actual concept of it. Yeah, it's one of my favorite projects I've ever worked on, especially because it was like a group effort. It was just such a fun thing to do. The script is pretty interesting. Like there were several things that were ideas from the art department and Spielberg and the novel, and such as the lava fields, which were kind of mentioned in the novel that the island was a bit volcanic, um, or it previously was, and there was still like steam in places. Um, and it's just interesting because there's even artwork of the lava fields and how that could have looked, but it also had a baby raptor that Grant rescues and carries it in a makeshift papoose, I guess made from like a shirt kind of thing.

SPEAKER_08 21:13

It's a cute visual to think about, which then leads um, but I suppose that ties into Dominion that we get, you know, with Owen and the Owen and the baby blue.

SPEAKER_10 21:21

Yeah, as soon as I saw that, I was like, oh my god, the papoose. It's a better version of the poo. It's a backpack, it's a bit cooler than a papoose, but yeah, we got we actually got that. How how funny. Which uh in this script leads to the Raptor Den, which I don't remember it being in any other script except this one that they go into, like in the novel, they go into the Raptor Den. It's like in that little underground tunnel. Yeah. Um and I actually prefer the placement of this compared to the novel. Because for people who've read the novel, after the big climax with the raptors and the visitor center happens, there's almost like a it almost feels like a postscript section where they go. Find the Raptor Den, they count the eggs, and it just it always felt really random to me. Like, we don't need this. It's like we didn't it felt too extra. Um, so in this script, it just happens while they're lost in the park. They they'll come across the baby raptor and it kind of like leads them in a way to the raptor den. The script, this script by Rick Hart also had a shortened version of the lagoon sequence. Like, okay, it's interesting, it just kept getting shorter and shorter until it was just gone, completely completely gone. But um, and then some interesting details though. Hammond wants Grant and Sattler to work for him at the park, which I think that's kind of a cool idea. And Hammond seems to die in every script except for you know David Kepp's version. So in this version, his death is in the control room, also by a raptor. But in this one, he actually falls on a model of the park, reminiscent of the one seen in Fallen Kingdom. So it's like, there's the model, it came from this. So I just found that really interesting. There's storyboards of that too. So I'm like, maybe someone saw this park model, and we're like, oh, we could put that in Lockwood's manor. And I think it was intended this way in the script and in the artwork. Like it's kind of intended to be like, oh, the fall of his park, you know, with him literally falling on his park kind of thing as he dies. Uh, there was also an extended ending with the T-Rex attacking the helicopter as they try to leave the island. Which I mean, and there's artwork for that too.

SPEAKER_08 23:24

And it's just really Do you think that was cut because of like practicalities or things, you know? Because I think so.

SPEAKER_10 23:30

And like it in a way, it's almost like how the novel went a little too extra with the Raptor Gen. In a way, maybe this would have felt a little too extra as well in terms of the pacing. I mean, I I know the reason why they added it in the first place, because this is the first time they did that, was because Spielberg did want the Rex to come back, you know, at the end, but they just couldn't figure it out. So that that was like their first attempt of doing that, was having it come back and yeah, attack the the helicopter, which we ended up basically getting at the opening of Fallen Kingdom. A lot of these things went to Fallen Kingdom.

SPEAKER_08 24:02

My favorite bit of the film, I think.

SPEAKER_10 24:03

Oh, I easily. I think for most people it is. Like it's it's such a good inciting incident. So that's that's basically the big differences I noted from Rick Carter's draft, which is yeah, more of a working document is what they officially like to call it, because you know, they don't want to get in trouble by the script writers guild or whatever.

SPEAKER_07 24:22

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_10 24:22

There was actually one writer uh after this, uh, Malia Scotch Marmo, who actually did script work for Hook. So um, you know, Rick Carter's document was just to kind of like bring the ideas of everything together, um, you know, just to kind of show Steven like this is how they could be integrated into the movie. So from there, Molly Scotch Marmo did her own script, uh, you know, working very closely with Spielberg. And, you know, he met her through Hook. So like after he was done with that movie, he was like, Oh, why don't you come along and try out Jurassic Park for us? Basically, her draft is totally different and unique with a focus on mosquitoes. Like she had the very much mosquito obsession in her script, like they kept coming up in different ways, I guess, because the whole amber connection. Yeah. Um, but the also the jungle like is slowly taking over elements in the park, you know, even before it opens, like things are kind of like like vines coming into the visitor center where they shouldn't be, almost just to show that nature is trying to reclaim kind of thing. So it's got interesting ideas. And in this version, Hammond gets left behind on the island. So I I try to remember he I he might stumble and fall, like he does in the book. I don't remember exactly like if he's just kind of left on his own to die, kind of thing. And again, he always dies until Kef comes in. So it's just funny. That's why I have an article once I wrote called The Many Deaths of John Hammond. Yes, the lagoon sequence is basically gone, but there is just like an attack during the raft ride. They still go on a raft, and I I guess another big thing is Ian Malcolm is not in this script at all, yeah. Which is interesting, but to be fair, um, this kind of combining or omitting characters happened with pretty much every screenwriter. It kind of depended on like sometimes Malcolm would be gone or Ed Regis would be gone or Jannara would be gone. People remember this one for omitting Malcolm the most because this was actually the first script that leaked online many years ago.

SPEAKER_08 26:22

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_10 26:23

So yeah, for for a long time, the Molly Scotch Marble draft was the only Jurassic script that was like.

SPEAKER_08 26:28

Yeah, I think I read it years and years ago, and I remember that being like a standout thing as where's Malcolm?

SPEAKER_10 26:34

Yeah, where's Malcolm? Yeah, so that's why, but it's not unique to this script, but it just kind of feels like it is to people because again, yeah, it's the one that was a has been around the longest, which is odd because it was only one draft, and I'm like, who else got this and put it out there? Which finally leads us to David Kep. And he had several drafts beginning in late April through December of 1992. Believe it or not, um, because David Kepp actually shared his original draft on his own website uh a couple of years ago.

SPEAKER_06 27:05

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_10 27:06

Yeah, and it has like handwritten notes on it and everything. Like it's such a cool thing he did. From what I remember, Kepp also omitted Malcolm from his original script. So there you go. Like he took him out too. I think the reason people were scared of Malcolm being in the movie was that he was just too heavy on his theories that people wouldn't be interested. But he got added back in. I don't know, I forget if my memory serving me right, but I think they brought Malcolm back in because of Jeff Goldblum, like his audition.

SPEAKER_08 27:35

Yeah, that's what I've heard.

SPEAKER_10 27:36

This script also has Lex writing the baby triceratops, which was not something that happens in the novel. Some people, for whatever reason, feel like, oh, just like in the novel. I'm like, no, no, no. No, she never rides it in the novel. There, she plays with it kind of and talks to it, but you know, she never actually rides it.

SPEAKER_08 27:53

Yeah, I've seen the models of the of the little trike, yeah.

SPEAKER_10 27:56

Yeah, yeah, the Stan Winston model. It was like completed, painted, and everything, but then they never filmed it. They cut it before they even filmed it, which is I think for the best, especially since they changed the ages of the kids. Yeah, having the older Lex ride a baby triceratum. I can't see her doing that. But most notably in Kepp's original draft, their the climax was a bit different. It was still in the rotunda with the Raptors going after Grant and the others, but they're trying to get down from like the upper level of the skeletons in the condor lift, and like the Raptors just kind of like try to you know jump and bite at them as like Grant's trying to operate this condor lift to like raise and lower, and then it like knocks against the skeleton and kind of thing. So the T-Rex does not come in to save the day at the end of this original kep ending. Instead, uh John Hammond actually comes in saving the day by shooting a rat the last raptor standing. So he goes from you know dying in every version to being the hero suddenly. So quite a quite a journey his character went on. Yeah, that's like the biggest difference for I remember from Kepp's like early drafts, and that ending climax stuck stuck around for a while because they uh, you know, as the story goes, they changed the climax with the Rex coming in to save the day kind of last minute. They kind of had to like storyboard it very quickly. In fact, if you see uh the storyboards that I believe David Lowry did, they're very sketch-like compared to his other ones, like they're very loose kind of lines. So you could tell it was just a very quick thing that they chose to do and plan out. I think we could all agree that it was the right thing to do.

SPEAKER_08 29:38

Yeah, I love the fact that Spielberg, they wanted the Rex to come back and he was the one that really pushed for it. And I think they probably did that even when they were filming this.

SPEAKER_10 29:45

Yeah, I think the way Rick Carter explained it was uh Spielberg was kind of explaining that scene, you know, like, oh, so the T-Rex comes in and it bites the raptor, blah, blah, blah. And then I think Rick asked him, like, well, where does the T-Rex come from? And then Stielberg said, from the top of the frame. Like, but of course, you know, Rick meant like, where literally does it come from? But Spielberg would never, he doesn't think that way. He thinks of the dramatic moment, like, it came from the top of the frame. What are you talking about? Yeah. So aren't you glad I took notes? Because that was a lot of things I thought.

SPEAKER_08 30:22

That was fantastic. Um, I think uh what's what's your thought about the cast that we that we have? You know, kind of Laura Dern, Sam Neil, and and Jeff Goldblum.

SPEAKER_10 30:31

I mean, I guess I'll just point out I did see the movie, I think like most people, before I read the book. So in a way, I was never comparing characters like that when I watched the movie, and I still don't, honestly. Like I I still think of them as the characters. So I feel like the cast that he chose, and I think he did this intentionally, you know, was very believable. I guess, especially back then, they weren't really established actors. Laura Dern kind of was, and Jeff Goldblum kind of was, like from the fly and everything, but they were never like huge movies back then. I just I think it was kind of they felt very natural. You didn't feel like they were trying to just use their star power glow. And they all just felt so quirky in that special 90s way. They felt very but like naturally quirky though, not like for quirkiness' sake, like they really felt like real people.

SPEAKER_08 31:25

And they I think they had such a a difficult and unique job to do because this had never been attempted before the reacting to things that weren't there. So the dinosaurs being CGI, so they really had to sell it.

SPEAKER_10 31:38

No, it definitely does, and I think especially with the scientific stuff, it was so smart of David Kept um and I guess Spielberg to come up with Mr. DNA to explain the science in an informational video. Like it just made perfect sense because that was definitely not a thing until uh Kept came in and did that. I think in the previous scripts, they they sometimes had a video, but it would just be like Hammond talking or Ed Regis talking kind of thing. It was just more like a typical informational video, but to actually make it be a cartoon, you know, in a way it's like intentionally dumbing down the science so everyone could understand in a movie. You you have to, you know what I mean, especially for you know that kind of science. It's very complicated science.

SPEAKER_08 32:25

Uh it's just amazing that that was yeah, just that little scene can do can do all of that heavy lifting.

SPEAKER_10 32:32

Oh, yeah. Yeah, so much heavy lifting. I I should note too, in Kepp's original draft, for whatever reason, he actually mentions Mr. DNA having a Jamaican accent.

SPEAKER_08 32:42

Right. Okay.

SPEAKER_10 32:43

Instead of a southern accent. It would have been interesting. It would have been an interesting difference. Yeah. Um the actors reacting to nothing. To be fair though, they at least did have animatronics, like plenty of animatronics to react to. I'm sure they probably got shown concept art as well, because there was plenty of that to go around. But yeah, they definitely kind of paved the way for for that, I think.

SPEAKER_08 33:07

And and on those animatronics, you know, Stan Winston. The man was a genius to to allow to give you know everything that he created life. Particularly, I think, in the T-Rex attack sequence on the main on the main road and The Rats in the Kitchen.

SPEAKER_10 33:21

Oh yeah, and totally, you totally buy it. Like to this day, I watch that movie and the animatronics, especially, but even the CGI in many scenes really just I still don't know how they really pulled it off, especially because they did movies, you know, before and since that movie where I don't think it was pulled off as well for whatever reason.

SPEAKER_08 33:41

You watch it now and you can't believe that that is 30-year-old technology. The the first iteration of it, and it still looks better than some of the stuff. I feel I sound really old now, I do understand that. I uh it's feels more real.

SPEAKER_10 33:55

Oh, yeah. I I think part of it is honestly they spent so much time perfecting it for just this movie because they were trying to prove something. I think that made the difference because ever since then, you know, they weren't trying to prove it anymore, they already proved they could do it, so they just wanted to do whatever they wanted with it after that. And it didn't mean, you know, actually refining it to the point where you know you can't tell the difference, which in many cases you couldn't tell the difference in the first movie. I think that might be.

SPEAKER_08 34:25

And it's the two effects working in tandem, isn't it? The the the animatronics and the CGI, they're there to complement the story rather than being the focus. The the T-Rex on the main road scene um is just I just watching it today, you know, the the music disappears and you feel like you're being like the whole crew are just leaving you.

SPEAKER_10 34:47

Oh man, I mean it's it's basically the perfect sequence. Like I think people who even study film say it's like one of the best sequences ever filmed for any movie, which is funny because there's actually some you know minor inconsistencies if you're looking after them. But it but it's kind of like what I was saying earlier about like you know, coming from the top of the frame. Like it doesn't matter when you're so invested in what is happening, and like you're you're in the car with them, and that's just a terrifying thing to actually feel to feel that. I honestly, like if it was done today from a different filmmaker, they probably would have had like a ton of wide shots and everything to really show the creature more than anything else.

SPEAKER_08 35:32

And yeah, you only get one, don't you, when it first steps out. Yeah, that's the only kind of big wide shot. And also the what I also watching it, the impact tremors and the glass shaking, and you know that it's coming, and it's like the music indoors, and you feels like just the ominous uh sense of something massive coming. And I'm so surprised that in the Jurassic World films it wasn't reused.

SPEAKER_10 35:57

No, I don't think once even. I'm trying to remember if it ever got used. Yeah, and it never was, and even Jurassic Park 3 used it in the opening titles anyway. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 36:08

Um I I was just you know, I was thinking how an amazing would it have been if they'd introduced the Giga Nautosaurus with that, but you had the the the rippling and the um the impact tremors, and then when it actually turned up it wasn't the T-Rex, it was something much bigger, much badder. And that would have yeah, I'd have liked to have seen that as a kind of introduction to that character. There was issues with the um T-Rex during that scene, of course. It got uh very wet um because it was driving rain.

SPEAKER_00 36:36

Yeah, we get the shakes of it.

SPEAKER_08 36:38

Yeah, it started to shake after about 10 minutes as they had to dry it down with a towel. Well, uh have you ever seen this live with the kind of orchestra?

SPEAKER_10 36:45

Yes, I have. Um actually, I think at least three times. And one of them was at the famous Hollywood Bowl, which I also saw John Williams perform a couple times. So yeah, it was it was amazing to see him perform. It is amazing. I recommend anyone in any format to watch the live um Jurassic Park.

SPEAKER_08 37:05

Yeah, I saw it at the Royal Abbott Hall for the 2020th, 25th, maybe.

SPEAKER_10 37:11

Oh yeah, I think it was 25th, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 37:13

Yeah, and that was just yeah, just at that moment when the main road happens, and now I think of it every time I watch it, it's like the conductor putting down his baton.

SPEAKER_10 37:22

And I love how because they do an intermission for the live version, and for the intermission, they do a brief bit from The Lost World, which is great.

SPEAKER_08 37:29

Yes, and I'd never thought of that being the midway, like with Nedri and Samuel Jackson's line of we can't get Jurassic Park back online without Dennis Nedry. And you're like, that is the perfect midpoint for this film. That of course that is the intermission point of this story.

SPEAKER_10 37:47

It's like a cliffhanger in a way, where it's like, oh no, like what are we gonna do? Like, and he's off on his own right now and doing bad stuff.

SPEAKER_08 37:54

I definitely think talking about Nedri and that that whole moment, it feels like a horror film.

SPEAKER_10 38:00

No, I I agree. I mean, my six-year-old self would agree because remember, that was the scene that I lost it. I was like, oh god, I mean, yeah, the T-Rex scene was terrifying, but I guess because you kind of expected it, I wasn't as scared as a kid, but with the spitter again, I didn't see it coming really. So it was just more it was like a horror moment. Like it's like a legit horror moment, kind of like when the raptor attacks Ellie from behind in the shed. Like, that's like a legit horror moment there, too. That's a jump. Honestly, Jurassic Park to me, it's a multi-genre story, which I I seem to gravitate toward those as like my favorite kind of stories where you can't really pinpoint exactly where it goes. Like it's kind of a bunch of things rolled into one. So, I mean, I think Jurassic Park is like an adventure, sci-fi, horror story. Like, that's the the three main groups I would put it together with. I think it's all the better for it, especially when the Jurassic World films, I feel like they lost the horror, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_08 39:03

Nedri's death in the book is really gory, and it just made me think that Spielberg's so good at taking that horror and making it still terrifying but appropriate to everybody. It feels believable the pain that Nedri goes through. We've all got something at some point in our eye, and the fact that it is that extreme close-up on him rubbing at his eyes, and it's just uh relatable. Yeah, relatable, relatable horror. It doesn't need the gory detail that the book gives you.

SPEAKER_10 39:33

Oh, yeah. And actually, I came across a Michael Crichton quote from I think of some magazine like Starlog or something. And he actually mentioned in this article that he was glad that the movie was not as gory as this book because he also believes that with books, you can be extra gory for effect, and it's okay because it's just the person imagining it. And in fact, you kind of have to go a little further in books to really make your point. But he says for the movie medium, you don't have to do that to sell the same point. You know, anyone who's criticized, like, oh, I wish Jurassic Park was more like the book, you know, in the movie form, you know, like James Cameron aliens kind of thing, which is funny because he almost got to do Jurassic Park at one point. But even the original author agrees, like, you know, it didn't need to be that gory for it to be effective. And I I definitely agree. Books and movies are different mediums, you don't have to be slavish.

SPEAKER_08 40:33

It's uh yeah, it's in it's interesting to think of the other people that might have got Jurassic. I mean, it always felt like it was because Spielberg and Crichton went back years. I think they first met when Spielberg was asked to take Crichton around the sets or something quite for for for and for Andromeda Strain when that was being made in the early 70s. I think Tim Burton was was was put forward. That would have been why. Richard Donner, I think, from for from from Superman, I suppose, because they've you know specialist effect heavy film could have dealt with it.

SPEAKER_10 41:04

And the Goonies, which was an Amblin property. Yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_08 41:06

Yeah, Amblin, yeah. It feels it feels right that this is Spielberg.

SPEAKER_10 41:11

Oh yeah, yeah. I mean he and he clearly already had an interest in dinosaurs because he produced uh The Land Before Time, the Don Blue thing animated film, which is also really good and sad. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The Bambi for Dinosaurs. Yeah, it's um no, I I do think Spielberg was the right person for because if they had done something more slavish to the book, you know, like a James Cameron aliens gory action style movie, I don't think it would have become such a cultural icon that it is now because Spielberg made it more accessible to I mean, I wouldn't say everyone, because kids of my age were not supposed to see it, but you know, it was kind of possible because it wasn't R at least, so you know, parents were more like, Oh, okay, I guess so, you know, kind of thing. Um, even though it probably still shouldn't have.

SPEAKER_08 42:05

But kids love it. Kids love that that kind of yeah, they love to be scared, but like yourself, you understand that afterwards, like a like a theme part ride, that it's safe. Oh, I d nothing nothing bad happened. Uh and I enjoyed those bits, and you kind of watch it again. And I think Spielberg understands that perfect his because Crichton in the book, he his way of writing kids is like Lex and Tim. Well, Lex in particular, is bloody annoying. Uh yeah. Spielberg always has that kid's eye view. You know, he knows, he seems to be able to remember what it was like being a child and can put that on screen so effortlessly.

SPEAKER_10 42:45

Oh, yeah. And I think at that point, you know, Spielberg already knew that kids were infatuated with the with dinosaurs. There was like a big dinosaur resurgence of interest in the 80s, especially like the late 80s, for whatever reason, they were like a big, hot topic. And so he knew that if he made a dinosaur movie that kids couldn't see, that they would be missing out on an audience, but also you know, for merchandising, actually, because you know, they do think about those things, and you know, Jurassic Park certainly had quite the merchandise. Um, I remember it was everywhere, even like the McDonald's commercials and everything. Like, it was one of the biggest marketing campaigns, I think, for any movie, maybe ever. I don't know. Like, it's it's definitely it was everywhere more than maybe Star Wars is the only one who ever had a bigger marketing campaign. It it was it was it was the right call for sure. And I think at this point, Spielberg was already a parent, if I'm not mistaken. So yeah, I think he he just had kids at that time. I know when he did Hook, I think that's what attracted him to do that movie because it was about like parenthood. Like, you know, that was um Peter's happy thought at the end of Hook was that he was. As a father, basically. Um, so I I think that really spoke to Spielberg, and you know, then he went on to do Jurassic Park. So I think he had he probably got even better at directing kids than when he started, to be honest.

SPEAKER_08 44:12

We've talked a few times about continuity issues, maybe, with Jurassic Park, and I get, you know, when I talk to people and people you know that aren't quite as obsessed as me about the film, they're like, like, there's quite a few, you know, in i inconsistencies with the with with the film. But there's one that I think can be attributed to Kubrick. Um there's a door that opens when Grant first meets um Hammond in the trailer at the dig site. And he opens a door one way and then the shot changes, and you see him he's opened the door another way. And I think it might be a c a continuity error, a legitimate one. But there's there's a moment in The Shining that happens when he goes in the freezer, the walking freezer, and Kubrick didn't make mistakes. It ev everything that is in this film is in there for a reason. And Spielberg was such a big Kubrick fan and obviously a friend of him. And I was thinking of the story moment of that is that's when the story changes and it it kind of we leave reality. We go into Hammond's fantasy world. And so that Grant leaving his dig site with the dinosaurs in their state that he's just left them. And when he passes through that door, his life will change, and that is I don't know, make people I'm completely wrong.

SPEAKER_10 45:29

No, I mean, I actually never thought of it that way, but I like that a lot. So we're just gonna say it is true. Yeah, we're just we're gonna say it is true because no one's gonna tell us otherwise, probably. No, no, no. Um, the it's funny you mention continuity in that scene though, because the the one continuity continuity uh error perhaps that I've always noticed is the uh handkerchief handkerchief that um Hammond has when he's kind of wiping the the wine bottle. Yes. It goes from like white to pink somehow. Yeah. Unless there's like a slide of hand and he's grabbing a different one. It's really I wonder because yeah, I've noticed that as well.

SPEAKER_08 46:06

And I I wonder whether that speaks to the fact that Spielberg was directing Richard Attenborough, you know, a a a Titan. And how do you how do you stop somebody who is giving you a great performance to say, oh you're using a big pink towel now? And it I mean it is ridiculous because it is you know, he's using a bath towel essentially to wipe those glasses and that's yeah, I I think it might be Spielberg just going, I I'm just in awe of watching this man, and I can't believe he's agreed to do my film.

SPEAKER_10 46:39

Well, I I think that's the kind of the editorial choices um like him and editor Michael Kahn seem to make in a lot of his movies. Like they they don't always go for the technically perfect take, they go for just the best take in terms of performance or just in visual appeal or you know what have you. Um so I wouldn't be surprised if it was a performance choice for that. Because you know, like like Spielberg said with the whole you know, Rex coming in, it's like you know, you're not gonna care about the technicalities when you're in the moment. So it's like the focus of the scene is what Hammond is talking about, you know, to them and his kind of quirkiness, not you know, the towel he's holding. Like people don't really notice those things normally unless they're on a rewatch like us and look for it. Um that's why I don't like cinema sins. It's like it just ruins it, it's not it's not a fun way to watch a movie. Um but um the rumor though is that George Lucas actually kind of was part of the editor's room during that time and made certain choices, um, including recutting the Ellie in the Shed scene. And that's why yeah, and that's why John Williams' original music for that, I think it was called Hungry Raptor was the the track title. Um it got mostly dropped, except for like the second half of it, because the scene got recut by Lucas, so they just kind of tracked in music from earlier or later in the score. That's one of the rumors, anyway. I forget where yeah.

SPEAKER_08 48:10

I've I've heard that too, and I've I've heard the fact that he was he was definitely present for the editing quite heavily because Spielberg was away, I think, for the CGI, and that's what gave him the confidence to do episode one.

SPEAKER_10 48:22

So we we we can blame uh Spielberg for the prequels, then is what you're thinking about. Yeah. For better remote.

SPEAKER_08 48:31

Do you think that's the lasting legacy of and not the sp not the prequels in in particular, but what what do you think the lasting legacy of Jurassic Park is?

SPEAKER_10 48:40

Oh man, I mean it's kind of sad in a way, because you would think the legacy would be like the best way to integrate special effects into a story and to use it well, but then you know, half of the sequels didn't abide by that, you know, by its own lesson from its own franchise, in my opinion. Even comparing Jurassic World to Jurassic Park, you you can't even really do it because they're just not even they don't have the same intent. You know, Jurassic World the whole time is you know setting up reverence for Jurassic Park in its own ways, whether it's successful or not is up to the viewer. But Jurassic Park was just trying to prove itself, which I think is a lot more important, I think, and to just show the world like this is this is what a movie can be, you know, and I think that's what I get from it. Like this is how good movies can be when trying to tell an incredible story.

SPEAKER_08 49:33

Yeah, it's a it's yeah, obviously I'm gonna say it's fantastic, but it I think it you know it's it's a classic for a reason.

SPEAKER_10 49:39

Well, yeah, especially the first movie in particular, because they fly off into the sunset, it's not trying to set anything up, it's it's it's there to tell you a complete story in the best way that it possibly can. And I think there's a lost art to that these days with those kind of adventure movies. You know, um, you know, I'm also just speaking of like high budget movies, because obviously there's still plenty of great movies being made. You know, it's a lost art of how blockbusters used to be made. Hoping, praying that rebirth absorbs more of that. They're kind of making claims that it will. Uh, like I said before, it remains to be seen. I yeah, again, I'm praying for that to be the case. And I mean, they can leave breadcrumbs if they want, but it's like, don't focus on the breadcrumbs, you know, it's just focus on this story. If I was working there, I I would just have like a really small, very tiny movie. Basically, trespasser, the movie would be great, you know, like Castaway Meets Dinosaurs.

SPEAKER_08 50:40

Like and speaking of Trespasser, that leads me quite nicely to talk to and ask you about Jurassic Time.

SPEAKER_10 50:45

Oh man, I mean, the the history of Jurassic Time essentially it started quite a few years ago. I think back all the way to like 2007, where I, you know, played the computer game Trespasser, which those who don't know, that was a 1997 computer game, uh, kind of an extension of The Lost World, you know, the second sequel of Jurassic Park. And, you know, kind of like how I mentioned this little fake pitch I just made where it's like a woman is stranded on an island alone with dinosaurs and has to get off. But part of that game that was so great was Richard Attenborough reprised his role as John Hammond and read um basically his memoir of John Hammond, and you hear little bits of it throughout the game. And, you know, as the years went on, less people play the game, less people could even play the game properly without you know doing mods and stuff like that. To this day, you still have to kind of like set things up properly before you can play it. Um, but I thought his performance as Hammond kind of was even better than what was in the movies, in my opinion. Like it just really the story he tells and the way he tells it is just kind of emotional the whole time. I really wanted to kind of capture his performance and kind of share it with people beyond the game, which was impossible, you know, until I decided to extract all of his audio from the game. And in the game, everything is kind of placed randomly throughout locations. You just hear a random bit. There was no real storytelling narrative. I just kind of arranged it in a way that I thought was the best storytelling kind of perspective, you know, and then I set it to music from the game composed by Bill Brown, who was an amazing game composer. He still composes to this day, but mostly just for like smaller films. Yeah, and then I added eventually I added sound effects from the game as well to kind of just make it more interesting for people, like an actual audio drama. That kind of became the thing I was best known for for a while was this audio drama version of Hammond's memoirs from Jurassic Park, and I called it Jurassic Time, which that title came from the strategy guide of trespasser, actually. Because that's what they called.

SPEAKER_08 52:54

I didn't actually know where the where it came from, and that's really interesting. Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 52:58

Yeah. And that's the only time I've seen it described as Jurassic Time was in that strategy guide. So I was like, well, I'll just call that you know Jurassic Time then, because that's what the strategy guy says his like memoir was called or whatever. So so from there, during the pandemic, let's just say I had a lot more time on my hands to scope people out, try to interview people who were part of the Jurassic Park films. Uh essentially, I'll just go down the line of the biggest names like Rick Carter, production designer Rick Carter, you know, John Bell, the art director, uh David Lowry, a storyboard artist, uh, John Girchie, he was a concept artist, uh, Caroline Quinn, she was an art department coordinator, even Dino Don Lesson. Um, I even got to talk to Leo Bierenberg, um, you know, the composer of Camp Cretaceous and Chaos Theory. Um, when season one came out of uh Camp Cretaceous, I was able to get an interview with him. I think the first one really with him that anyone had done. One of the other big names is Seamus Blackley. He created Trespasser and also created a little thing called the Xbox. So when I did Rick Carter's Jurassic Park, the illustrated audio drama from his script, someone was able to help me get in contact with him. And they warned me though, he's either gonna really like it or really hate it. Yo, and I'm like, oh my god, like that's terrifying. But fortunately, he loved it, and it led to me being involved like in some art exhibits of his uh because he lives um in LA and I live about three hours from LA. So I was able to get there um for some of these events. And funnily enough, I made like a Blu-ray of the Rick Carter program and I gave it to Rick. And someone there saw me do this, and he recognized the Jurassic Time logo on the back. And he's like, I know who you are. And he was wearing um a mask because it was like COVID was still going on during that time. So I didn't see his face initially. I'm like, Who is this? And then I found out it was Seamus Blackley, and so that's how I met Seamus Blackley, and then he wanted me to interview him about uh not only Trespasser, but the Jurassic World game that he was involved in creating before there was a movie. Um that's a crazy story of people.

SPEAKER_08 55:15

Which we all got very excited about when we saw the trailer. I remember that.

SPEAKER_10 55:19

Yeah, that little pitch trailer with the um the pterosaur like flying off with the surfer and everything. Like we we were all so confused for years, like what that was, like it was a part of the movie, but no, it was part of a game, which is kind of weird in a way. Like that's what it was. I I spoke to all these people, and it's just it's just amazing that they gave, you know, just a fan that kind of time to talk to them, you know, and about these stories. And I feel like some of them, especially in the art department, they don't always get their spotlight. And I feel like they should, because when you see the illustrations of like the storyboards with the concept art and how it so often closely resembles in the final product of the movie, part of the movie's vision definitely comes from these people. Like the movies are a collaborative effort, they're not just one person. I think too often just one person does get credit, which, you know, as amazing as Spielberg is, it isn't all him. Most of the time, when people would talk about Jurassic Park and interviews and even special documentaries and videos, they would only talk about the special effects, which to me, I was getting bored to death by it. I mean, it's like I get it. It was an amazing special effects movie, but there was so much more interesting details that went into it, including like the script writing process that we talked about and what went into the artwork and everything, the different concepts that they came up with, got rid of, and then brought back. Like there's just an interesting history, especially for Jurassic Park, because it had a very long pre-production. You know, they started pre-production in 1990, basically, when those scripts were being written, and you know, they didn't start filming until 1992. So, you know, there's that much time, years of pre-production. That's not really normal, especially these days. Like Jurassic World Rebirth didn't get that. No, you know, speaking of Jurassic Park scripts from earlier, I have to mention that I was also a consultant on Jurassic Park, the official script book that Insight Editions did back in late 2023. And that alone was quite an experience. We spent months working on like the interior of the book. I donated a bunch of images for them to use that were part of the concept art from the original Jurassic Park, a lot of rare images that were not in the previous Jurassic Park Ultimate Visual History book. So it's definitely one of the more proud things I've done. And I definitely think most Jurassic Park fans would love it. I mean, it came from a fan, you know, working hard at it. So, you know, I have to thank James Motram, the writer of that book, for getting me involved and for, you know, kind of giving my own personal touch to the whole thing. But yeah, it I think it turned out pretty well. Apart from the the book cover, a lot of people criticize the book cover, and I don't blame them. That was like the the one thing I had zero involvement in. So I'm really proud with how it turned out. So I do hope people enjoy it if they check it out. But anyway, back to back to Jurassic Times. So yeah, all those interviews, you know, kind of got me more more notice, and especially the Rick Carter's Jurassic Park program, because I got noticed by Rick Carter. So that was like to me, that was like the ultimate confirmation that you know I was doing something that people appreciated, which is, you know, I I wanted something that had, you know, either a quality to it or something that people just had interest in that people wanted to know about these stories.

SPEAKER_08 58:59

And you're now telling a story with your first book, Invertiverse. Please tell me a little bit more about it. I've read the first you've you've sent me the first few chapters and I love it. I'm I'm hooked, I'm in, I'm ready. So, yeah, can you can you give me a little synopsis and kind of tell me where the idea came from?

SPEAKER_10 59:17

Yeah, um, but yeah, the the full synopsis, and I'm just gonna read it. Dangerous creatures, peculiar disappearances, mysterious urban ruins. It was easy for David Andrews to be entranced by Juniper Valley's legends, but when his obsession causes the death of his closest companion, David's entire life becomes derailed. Years later, an alarming incident leads him and an estranged friend into the depths of their town's chilling history. A startling discovery lies in wait that will force them on a frantic journey across the multiverse. Alternate worlds with vicious monsters and treacherous landscapes won't be their only challenges. They will have to overcome their own haunted past if they ever wish to return home. And there is also a chance that David can finally confess his true feelings to the same person he had lost. And that last bit right there, where it's like, oh, I hope that brings them in. Yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:13

What does that mean?

SPEAKER_10 1:00:15

But no, I'm glad you're enjoying it so far. Um, and I'll just slightly give away because you you did read the the prologue, especially the inciting incident, which you were or a inciting incident. I wouldn't call it the inciting incident of my story, but it is a inciting incident that does become referenced and is important later on. But it's very much uh a Stephen King-inspired opening, you know, uh children in peril. So it's like Spielberg and Stephen King kind of opening chapter, child in peril. Because I feel like if a child is in peril, that means anyone is game. But as for like um the inspiration for this story, it had been in my head for many, many years. I remember I did a really weird version of the story in high school that was centered around like the Bermuda Triangle, where the Bermuda Triangle was like a portal to another world, basically, and they get sucked into like a whirlpool, essentially. There's definitely concepts in here that are 20 years old, which is very, really nuts. But no, I've been working on this book specifically for about a decade, which is also kind of crazy because I was trying to juggle like real life work and stuff like that as I'm trying to write it, and it just wasn't clicking properly until again when the pandemic happened, and I suddenly had more time to devote just to the book, and that's where I think it really found its footing finally. At the same time, and I I don't recommend this, but I was actually having illustrations created while I was writing the book, like even before I had a first draft done, I had like outlines done, but there was no actual draft, and I was I already getting artwork made for it from various people. But another unique thing I did because I've always loved orchestral uh film scores, and I feel like I've always been a struggling composer in my head. I I tried to learn music when I went to college briefly, and it was like an introduction to music class, but on the first day, they already assumed you knew how to write notations. I'm like, I don't know how to do that, so I had to drop it. It was really upsetting because I really wanted to learn. So, you know, I always had themes in my head ever since high school again. I always had music themes in my head, I would hum as I walked home from school and everything. But then uh when I was coming up with the story, I just had this weird idea like, what if the book had its own soundtrack? And I found various people who could play music by ear. So I would hum out every track and they would replicate it based on my humming. And it's kind of a thematic score, you know, like different characters with different themes and different ideas, and they kind of play off each other at times. So yeah, I just really wanted the story to be almost as much as a movie without actually seeing one, and that's why I wanted all this concept art for it. And then the art is in the book, except for the ebook versions. Um, I actually tried putting artwork for the ebook digital versions, but the thing with ebooks is they're formatted in a way where if certain devices things won't look right, and I tested it out and it just looked really bad. So I was like, you know what? I would rather just not have art in the ebook version because it just ruined it, especially because there's a lot of like fake logos in the story. But and actually for Jurassic Park fans, John Bell actually did a piece of artwork for Invertiverse. Uh, there's a vehicle, yeah. Because uh John Bell, for those who don't know or remember, um, he was the art director at Jurassic Park and he did various uh concept art illustrations, uh, including for the vehicle designs. Like he designed the look of the Ford Explorer and the Jeeps, yeah, for The Lost World as well. He did all those vehicle designs. So um he's a car aficionado, so it makes sense. Um and for Invertiverse, I asked him to design a fictional vehicle for me called the Rocket Lodge, which is basically a souped-up mobile home. And I wanted it to be very futuristic looking and just like really impressive and have like a vibrant design. It's great. He very he did such a great work designing it. It's incredible.

SPEAKER_08 1:04:34

You you mentioned about um Stephen King and Steven Spielberg, and it has that element to it very much. I think you've really captured a sense of place, you know, it's a landscape that I don't know at all, and the the shadows and the creature and all of it was just really great. And again, what what I talked about earlier about kind of writing kids as well, it's really difficult to get their point of view, and I think you did that, you've you've done that really well.

SPEAKER_10 1:04:59

No, thank you. I mean, that's that's really good to know because I mean you writing for kids, and I think uh writing for females, I was worried because I'm later on in the story, there is a female POV or perspective, and I'm a male, and I'm like, I don't want to write for a woman in a way that doesn't feel genuine, you know what I mean? And it's hard to for me to do that, you know. It's like I don't know. Thankfully, the few people that have read the whole story, the the female character they actually like the best. Like it's their favorite character, usually by the end of the story, especially. So I'm like, oh thank God. You know, it's like more relieved than happy in a way that I I seemingly made it work, and I loved writing for her, so I think maybe that's what showed because I I gave her a you know a fun personality, I guess you could say, but she gets the best dialogue, you know. I try I always gave her like the best dialogue every time. Yeah, I like influences for writing, definitely Stephen King, but also obviously Michael Crichton. I'm sure you can. Feel the Crichton you know inspirations oozing already in the text. And but I will say there are a lot of dinosaur references later on, or just a few Jurassic references still to come. And I'll just spoil this because you do see artwork when I begin advertising the story. Um, there's a thing that I call pygmy pets, which are the small versions of pets for people to have of bigger animals. So for example, uh, people have like dog-sized versions of giraffes, rhinos, bears, and you know, they never grow past a certain size, which was definitely inspired by an idea from Crichton's book that somehow never got used in any of the movies. I don't think it's gonna be in rebirth either. So I'm like, oh, how did they not tap into this? You know, in the story, they do go in and out of different universes. I wanted it to be just really kind of fun, frantic adventure while still having an emotional core that I think people could relate to. And that definitely comes in the form of the protagonist, David Andrews. It's supposed to be like an emotional journey for the characters and they go through growth. Because the thing is, a lot of multiverse stories would look at like Marvel right now. And I even try to make this be a point in like the product page for selling the book, you know, where it's like this isn't like a comic book superhero movie. These are ordinary people with relatable stuff going on in their lives that are thrown into this, you know, fish out of water style adventure. Like they're not scientists, they're just like us, basically. You know, maybe some nerdier than others, but that's about it.

SPEAKER_08 1:07:38

But yeah, no, I think from from what I've read so far, you've got some uh amazing setups to a story and some really great characters as well. And characters, you know, are you know the be all and end all of all stories. So yeah. Um when where when when is it released?

SPEAKER_10 1:07:53

It is coming out June 3rd, um, which is you know, just in time for Jurassic June, right? There's some dinosaur elements in the story, so it fits, it fits. Um, I'll probably, by the time this episode comes out, it'll I'll probably already be promoting it for pre-orders. So you might be able to pre-order it now, which uh you could do so at Derek DavisMedia.com. There'll be various links for you to go to um because it'll be available at most places books are sold, including Amazon. Um, and also it could be ordered through local bookstores and stuff like that. So there's definitely a lot of ways you can get uh multiple versions of this book. It'll be available in hardcover and also paperback. And of course, the ebook I mentioned, but again, the ebook does not have pictures.

SPEAKER_08 1:08:39

So um, so how else can people find you?

SPEAKER_10 1:08:43

Yeah, and the easiest way is uh derekdavismedia.com. And there are um very there's ways to contact me. There's also like a Facebook page, Instagram, uh Twitter threads, and uh Blue Sky as well. Like they're all they're all on there. So you can reach me in those ways. Also, you can reach me through uh Jurassic Time, uh JurassicTime.tresscom.org. Uh there's various social media platforms there as well. And also I I I sometimes do articles for a little website called Jurassic Outpost. So and I'm sometimes on their podcast as well, so you can find me there. So I'm kind of kind of all over the place right now. So if I if I feel like mentally I'm all over the place, that's probably why.

SPEAKER_08 1:09:29

I'm just gonna say thank you so much for joining me today. It has been an absolute pleasure of mine uh as being a fan of everything that you've done with Jurassic Um time. I don't know how many times I've actually listened to John Hammond's memoirs, it has aided me going to sleep many times and lulled me on train journeys. It is a a a joy to listen to. And um the Rick Carter Jurassic Um Park audio drama is amazing as well. I no, yeah.

SPEAKER_10 1:09:58

No, thank you, thank you for having me. This was this was great. I hope, you know, pe you hope you get a nice big following from people listening in because I think you're I think you're really great at hosting these. And I'm not just saying that it's like it's a it's hard to do. It is hard to, you know, really find a way to you know capture a person, you know, in in a conversation like this. And I I think he did a great job. So so thank you for having me for sure.

SPEAKER_08 1:10:25

Thank you to Derek again for that conversation, and I really hope you enjoyed everything that we talked about. In the show notes for this episode, you'll find all of Derek's links. So please go and check out his website and Invertiverse, which actually since our conversation I have finished. And I'm a huge fan. I really enjoyed it. It perfectly blends the Amblin sensibilities with Stephen King. Um, there's even, I think, connections to films like Labyrinth and Neverending Story. So, yeah, please go and check out all of that. And also, I'd just like to say thank you very much to everybody who's rated this podcast so far after one episode. That is amazing. Thank you very much. I've got so much more planned for you in the future. So please remember to subscribe to this podcast and follow me on Instagram at Road2RebirthPod. Next week I'm looking at The Lost World, the novel by Michael Crichton, and I've got two special guests. So I've got my continuation of my conversation with James Lovegrove, and also I've got author Guy Adams, and we're talking about his take on Michael Crichton as an author. But for now, I'll just say thank you very much for listening and goodbye.

SPEAKER_09 1:11:44

So my aunt, while I'm watching Jurassic Park for the first time, is telling me this story about how when she saw Jurassic Park in a theater during the T-Rex breakout scene, someone behind her dropped some cha loose change or something, um, and was reaching around underneath the seats trying to find it and grabbed her ankle. And I I really remember like while watching Jurassic Park, her saying, like, the T-Rex breakout scene was about to happen, and her saying, like, oh, here comes the scary stuff, here it comes.

SPEAKER_08 1:12:14

She she she didn't lean and like grab your leg to kind of Oh no.

SPEAKER_09 1:12:19

Thank thank goodness, thank goodness, no.

SPEAKER_08 1:12:24

Hello and welcome back to Road to Rebirth. I'm Roman Squire. Each week in the lead up to Jurassic World Rebirth, I am sitting down with a guest to discuss an entry aspect of the Jurassic franchise. And today, I'm talking about Steven Spielberg's sequel, The Lost World Jurassic Park. By 1997, Steven Spielberg had spent the best part of 30 years directing back-to-back classics. In 1993, he had released Jurassic Park, which ushered in the digital effect revolution that happened in cinema, and also released the deeply personal Schindler's List. He had been recognized at the Academy Awards and won a whole host of Oscars for both films. After that, he did something surprising. He took time off directing. Instead, he went and set up a new production company called DreamWorks. But there was something he couldn't get off his mind, and that was returning to the world of the dinosaurs. As I talked about last week, author Michael Crichton was reluctant to write a sequel to Jurassic Park. However, fans, Spielberg, and Jurassic Park screenwriter, David Kepp, managed to persuade him. They all worked on ideas together and decided that Ian Malcolm would return and it would be set on a brand new island filled with dinosaurs, Isla Sauna, and would be called The Lost World. Now for Grichton, his inspiration would come from Arthur Conan Doyle's The Lost World. And if you want to hear more about that, please listen to last week's episode. But for Spielberg, his love for Howard Hawks would be his reference point. Watching Hawks' 1962 African adventure film, Hatari, starring John Wayne as a great white hunter capturing animals for zoos and circuses, the references are writ large. The Lost World reimagines that film, but instead of wildebeests and rhinos, it's dinosaurs. And actually, those scenes of them racing after giraffes are a th really thrilling and incredibly well filmed, if a little difficult to watch 60 years later. In The Lost World, Spielberg takes John Wayne's Sean Mercer, but turns him into an anti-hero. In the form of Roland Tembo, played by Pete Pothelswaite. Now production started in September 1996 and like most Steven Spielberg films, wrapped ahead of schedule in December the same year. To help me unpack a bit more about the film and its place within the series, I chatted with composer and musician Kayla Burnett and started by asking him how he became a Jurassic fan.

SPEAKER_09 1:15:07

My first memory of seeing Jurassic Park was on, you know, one of those big old TVs with the VCR in the front of it. I remember being with my aunt and uh she told like during my I remember during my first time seeing Jurassic Park, um, my aunt was telling me about stories of when she saw it in the theater. Because I'm too young to have seen it in the theater, unfortunately. Um, but uh so my aunt, while I'm watching Jurassic Park for the first time, is telling me this story about how when she saw Jurassic Park in a theater, um, during the T-Rex breakout scene, someone behind her dropped some chain loose change or something um and was reaching around underneath the seats trying to find it and grabbed her ankle during the T-Rex breakout scene. Um, and so uh and I I really remember like while watching Jurassic Park as a young kid at this time, like her saying like the T-Rex breakout scene was about to happen, and her saying, like, oh, here comes the scary stuff, here it comes. Um, and so I've just loved Jurassic Park.

SPEAKER_08 1:16:23

She she she didn't lean and like grab your left. Oh no. Simpson.

SPEAKER_09 1:16:28

Thank thank goodness, thank goodness. No. Uh, but like I I fell in love with it. Um I remember immediately afterwards going to a computer and typing going to Google and typing in Jurassic Park sequels, like to see if there were any that existed, because at the time I just didn't know. And uh, you know, at the time two of them popped up. Um, because that's how young I am, I guess. But uh yeah, so and I've just been a fan since then. Um, honestly, and when the Jurassic World trilogy came out and just kind of like started things back up again and you know, got everybody back into it. And definitely, you know, I'm one of those people got me back into it after like sort of being a casual fan for a little while because there was nothing happening. Um the wilderness years, yeah. Yeah, and uh and now here we are. So yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:17:21

Are you excited for rebirth?

SPEAKER_09 1:17:23

Yeah, I I really am. Um nice. And the biggest point of that for me is David Kepp. Um, it's kind of been that since the beginning. I I have a big admiration for David Kepp. Um, I uh I love I love his writing. I I know some people are gonna say, you know, he hasn't everything he's written hasn't been perfect, but um I I think he's an excellent writer, and um I think the screenplays and some of the dialogue and the scenes and moments in those first two Jurassic films are just phenomenal, to be quite honest. And so him coming back to Jurassic is just like how lucky are we, how fortunate are we um after after all this.

SPEAKER_08 1:18:10

It's incredible that he is. This is the reason why he's coming back. A seventh film in a franchise to get yeah to get him to come back in. I think yeah, that is definitely for me a c it's an interesting, it's an interesting move. Yeah, so so today we're gonna try and tackle Steven Spielberg's sequel to Jurassic Park, The Lost World, which was released in 1997. And I was wondering whether you could kick us off with a synopsis for it.

SPEAKER_09 1:18:34

Yes, I can. Four years after the Dura disaster at Jurassic Park, John Hammond has lost control of Engine um because some of the board has come in and taken over after an incident on site B. A British family on a yacht cruise. John Hammond recruits uh experts in many fields, uh, including Sarah Harding and Ian Malcolm, um, who is returning from that first Jurassic story to uh head to site B and complete a uh extensive photo record of these dinosaurs and animals to gain public opinion back for Injun so that uh, you know, the people who have taken InGen from John Hammond don't stripline this island and uh try to start another theme park and do things that these animals don't deserve. So um, and that, you know, the two so the team that John Hammond recruits heads to Site B, East LaZorna, and an Injun-led team heads to Site B East La Sorna, but they don't have knowledge of each other. When they get to Site B, chaos ensues, uh, because of their different different missions, and uh they end up being stuck there together and have to find a way to get off. And in the end, Injun manages to get a dinosaur back to the mainland, uh, against many folks' wishes, and uh chaos ensues there in San Diego, and Ian Malcolm and Sarah Harding have to play a part in sort of uh wrangling that dinosaur back into containment and getting it back to site B. And that's kind of where the Lost World leaves us is dinosaurs are back on site B. So I hope that's sufficient.

SPEAKER_08 1:20:21

Amazing. Thank you very much for that. Yeah, no, that's really good. After you'd watch Jurassic Park, desperate to watch more. Do you have any memories of watching The Lost World for the first time?

SPEAKER_09 1:20:29

Oh, yeah, for sure. Um so The Lost World was actually my favorite Jurassic movie for a long time. Um, like more than the original, more than the others, um, just because as a kid, it was like there's a bunch more action, there's more dinosaurs, there's two T-Rexes instead of one. Um, and so like you know, and I there's an interview with Spielberg somewhere on special features or something where he talks about like wanting there to be more carnage and action in the Lost World. And I remember seeing that as a kid on the special features and being like, yeah, like um thinking that was awesome. So um I don't have a I don't know that I have a memory of like specifically watching The Lost World for the first time, but like it definitely like took over my fandom as a kid and as a teenager.

SPEAKER_08 1:21:19

So yeah. Yeah, I saw it opening night. So there was oh wow, they used I don't know whether they still do this, so it was um like special previews like a couple of nights before, and at my local cinema, I went oh I like I was nine and I begged my mum and dad to take me, and they took me, and I remember coming out and pretending to be a T-Rex, you know, smashing my way through the town. And thinking about that today, I was like, that is absolutely what Spielberg wanted from the T-Rex moment in San Diego is to kind of push all those kids out and you know, let let them stomp around. Um and also another memory from Lost World is the PlayStation game.

SPEAKER_09 1:21:57

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:21:57

That original PlayStation have have have you ever played that?

SPEAKER_09 1:22:00

I have, yeah. I'm I'm not a huge gamer, admittedly, but like Jurassic, I no, no, I'm I am a big Jurassic gamer, let's say. So like all the Jurassic games I will at least like give a try. And those late 90s, early 2000s, like Lost World games are so fun. They're great.

SPEAKER_08 1:22:18

It's one of the most frustrating games I think I've ever played. Like the gameplay of it is just awful. And it's got but it's got a good score, you know.

SPEAKER_09 1:22:25

It's um Yeah, that's Michael Jacquino. Definitely what I was gonna say is the music for those games is uh pretty iconic.

SPEAKER_08 1:22:33

So Yeah. Um there was a you you could enter in like cheat codes and I remember I was ill off school once, and me, my mum and dad just just needed to get past the comps of Gnathus. I think my mum said, I cannot listen to that music again. We've got to get to another got to get to another level.

SPEAKER_09 1:22:55

That's great, that's great. The music is the motivator to beat the level. Yeah, it's perfect.

SPEAKER_08 1:22:59

She said, if I end up on that bloody rock again at the start, I'm she's gonna scream. Um have have you read the book for the lost world?

SPEAKER_09 1:23:08

Yes. Um I the last time I read it was last spring, actually. So do you think it's a good adaptation, this? Uh I mean uh there's I don't know if I would say good or bad. I think you know there's a discussion to be had about like the adaptations of both Jurassic Park and The Lost World, because they're both I mean, they're both significantly different from their novel counterparts. Um but they both have a lot of similarities. But um The Lost World, I think, is just a great novel. Um it's such such an escapism novel for me, like thinking about re- I was it's about a year ago that I wrote that I read it now, and like just such an escape, like off to South America and a mysterious island, and like so much mystery and intrigue in it. Um as far as the adaptation goes, I mean, I uh the Lost World film is my favorite sequel in the franchise, and so I love what it is. Um, I also like it's so different from so many things in the book. Um there are so many characters that aren't present. Um and the Lost World book has given us like so much material to be put into like future films and other stuff and things like that. So I mean I think it's a good adaptation.

SPEAKER_08 1:24:36

I think but it's just my personal opinion that like Yeah, I I think it's sort of I was talking to uh James Lovegrove um last week, and he was saying it cherry picks the best moments from the novel that feel cinematic. Um yeah, and I think that's that's fair.

SPEAKER_09 1:24:54

I I agree. I think and I think good adaptations do that, because like Jurassic Park does that too.

SPEAKER_08 1:25:00

So I'm really interested in the fact that because Crichton was very involved in the pre-production of Jurassic Park, you know, writing a couple of drafts for that script, and I can't find any evidence that he was involved in the script writing for the Lost World adaptation at all.

SPEAKER_09 1:25:15

Yeah, I mean it seems like David Kepp was, you know, taking what Crichton had written and just you know taking it straight to the screenplay. Um which is inter I mean this discussion is super interesting. Uh yeah, and one reason is like David Kepp is back on Rebirth now. So like that makes this whole discussion interesting as far as like uh Spielberg and everyone coming up with sequel ideas and and things like that. It's makes me wonder uh what we have in store here.

SPEAKER_08 1:25:49

So yeah, I mean I'll get to Jurassic Part 3 and kind of Kepp's involvement maybe in that. But uh I wonder what those initial conversations that uh Kepp and Steve Steven Spielberg had for The Lost World. And as you say, the novel is so rich with future uh ideas for sequels and stuff, you can take tiny bits out, and actually you read the book, and when I was reading it this time, I was making little notes like oh, this is in Jurassic Part 3, this is in Fallen Kingdom, and then I kept noticing bits that are in the uh rebirth trailer. I'm like, could this be could this be a hint at uh at rebirth?

SPEAKER_09 1:26:25

Well, and Kep in one of these interviews over the last couple months said that he revisited the novels again, writing Rebirth. And so I'm excited. Yeah. So Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:26:35

Yeah. Um so when they approached The Lost World, obviously Crichton came up with Isla Sauna, The New Island, and when going to film it, they decided to have a new look to it as well. What what's your thoughts on the on the difference of how Isla Nublar is depicted to Isla Sauna?

SPEAKER_09 1:26:54

Um, I think it's uh I mean inviting is maybe a weird word because it's like a you know a mysterious, scary place. Um but I think like everything new about this movie has always just been really fresh to me as like a new island with different foliage, different environment, um, new characters, new score that describes this environment. Um and so it's you know, the score, not to go on a uh tangent, but like the score pairs with the island really well. Um it's just so mysterious and primal and spooky. And so it's I I love I've I've always loved Isla Sorne. I I love the new island.

SPEAKER_08 1:27:38

So it was shot in Eureka, which is in California, the redwood forests of San Francisco. Um yeah. Have you have have you ever visited there at all?

SPEAKER_09 1:27:46

Uh I've been up through there. I haven't visited the specific locations. Um the game trail stuff was filmed in a place called Patrick's Point State Park or somewhere like that, I think. Um and that I mean, the location that sticks out in my mind that I'd like to visit in Northern California sometime is that game trail shot. Um but the redwoods are also just gorgeous. So cool.

SPEAKER_08 1:28:12

And obviously handily for Spielberg it's a bit closer than Hawaii.

SPEAKER_09 1:28:16

Yeah. Yeah. Well and the the red redwood trees have have been around forever. They're ancient, like dinosaurs.

SPEAKER_08 1:28:23

Yeah, I think uh Rick Carter said in one of those um documentaries that looking at the paleontology of the dinosaurs and the environment, they probably his his guessing was that you know Isla sauna is more dinosaurs in their natural habitat. So he wanted to try and get that on screen as well. So getting away from the jungle aspect and more to do with the um temperate uh forest. And you know, they did think about going to New Zealand, I think, for a bit.

SPEAKER_09 1:28:49

Yeah, uh so on Jurassic Alpos, this uh is this says numerous locations were considered for filming, including the Caribbean, Central America, and New Zealand. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_08 1:28:59

Yeah, because Spielberg had a young family at this point as well, I think he needed to work in a way that was maybe a bit more sustainable and conducive to having that family. So I think being able to rap and go home, I think they had uh like block parties and stuff like that with a crew and cars. So it felt, you know, if you're making a family-oriented film, I think that comes across in the film that we get as well.

SPEAKER_09 1:29:25

I was gonna say um the the uh the stuff with the T-Rex in the backyard and the kid in the house, yeah, and the stuff where the T-Rex knocks the ball off the sign at the gas station and all that stuff. Yeah, all of that's film all of that was filmed in like northern LA um area, in some residential areas, um, like relatively close to each other too, like those two locations. Um but like that kind of plays into what you're saying about like Spielberg filming this close to home. Because like I think like the the place where they filmed the thing in the backyard with the kid is just like a it's a real house, so like it was like one of Spielberg's neighbours had to have been one of Spielberg's neighbours or something.

SPEAKER_08 1:30:09

So yeah, and also talking about the look of the film, another big part of the film is the um is Janusz Kaminsky coming on board as as as cinematographer. And I was a big fan of The Lost World when it came out originally, uh when I was like 10, 11, 12, and then Jurassic Park 3 came out, and I really like the fact that we went back to the bright colours of Jurassic Park and like the jungle and all that sort of stuff. Uh I I enjoyed that, and but it's only recently, actually in the past few years, that I've my love of The Lost World has come back slightly, and that's because I've been able to see it in 4K and just seeing the depth and the darkness, the contrast is amazing, and I'm just like, oh that's yeah, it's uh I think Kathleen Kennedy calls it uh like a painterly approach to Jurassic that um Yanish brings.

SPEAKER_09 1:30:55

I I was lucky enough to see The Lost World in a movie theater last summer um on film. Um and it's wow man, it's gorgeous. Um the cam some of the camera work and shots in there are just absolutely great, just legendary stuff. So um the game trail stuff especially, but those the darkness and the contrast that you're talking about too is great.

SPEAKER_08 1:31:19

And Spielberg said that he wanted to do more with the camera for the Lost World because he because of the technology that he was working with in Jurassic Park, he had to almost like lock off the camera sometimes. And yet when he came back, he was just like, I'm not going to do that. So we're gonna have to get the you know, I want to be able to move the camera, so these dinosaurs, these CG dinosaurs are gonna have to move as well and match what I'm doing.

SPEAKER_09 1:31:41

Yeah, the like speaking about those game trail shots, um, like there's just so much action, so many dinosaurs going on there. Yeah, um, and it like the rigs and camera movements that were going on are just crazy. So it's it's awesome. And like going through the legs of the Mominky saurus, like stuff like that, it's great.

SPEAKER_08 1:31:59

Yeah, and it really is the opposite to where we see the Brachiosaurus in Jurassic Park. It is extra, uh, to say the least.

SPEAKER_09 1:32:09

We uh we see the Brachiosaurus from many feet away. Yes. In the last world, we just drive right through the big sauropod's legs.

SPEAKER_08 1:32:17

So I think that just speaks to how revolutionary Jurassic Park was that even in its sequel that we've got to this point where the special effects are so well um integrated that they they they can do a a scene like the like the roundup.

SPEAKER_09 1:32:32

Yeah. It's just incredible.

SPEAKER_08 1:32:45

So yeah, it's an amazing in integration again of the special effects of RLM and and Stan Winston. Yeah, and I think I think it's it's overlooked sometimes, and people think about the first film, and it was amazing, but I think some of the developments that they managed to put, you know, Stan Winston and RM put in the sequel for Lost World are just another level.

SPEAKER_09 1:33:09

Even though The Lost World is this sequel that maybe not as many people like or didn't get as make as much money, or you know, didn't get as much reception or whatever, like the Stan Winston animatronics and special effects are s like on the exact same level. They're phenomenal.

SPEAKER_08 1:33:25

Yeah, so the bit with the the baby T-Rex, the T-Rex he actually made, you know, like there was two versions I think that he made, and one was um like completely remote controlled, and so no cables, and Spielberg was just like the T-Rexes are amazing, but that that is a miracle what you've managed to do.

SPEAKER_09 1:33:43

And it still it still looks so real, it's just crazy.

SPEAKER_08 1:33:47

And uh you you're mentioning about the um score uh briefly, but Gary Um Rydstrom's um amazing sound design, I think, is what really brings it alive as well. Those strange like whistles that are going on in the background.

SPEAKER_09 1:33:59

Yeah, well, uh there are so many like outlandish, unique sounds in The Lost World. Like when they first decide they're gonna take the baby T-Rex in the vehicle and they drive past Eddie and it's just squealing. Yeah. And uh for the longest time watching that movie as a kid, I did not know what that sound was. I was like, is that the baby T-Rex? Is it is it Eddie's car? Like, is it Eddie lifting the thing, the high hide up?

SPEAKER_08 1:34:26

I think I I think it's one of those moments where it starts with the sound of the high hide, and then the T-Rex sound just perfectly matches it that was going through, and it's it's a great effect.

SPEAKER_09 1:34:38

Yeah, it's awesome.

SPEAKER_08 1:34:38

But I think I think what we're what we're getting at is the fact that The Lost World has a really rich texture, both both visually and um sonically as well.

SPEAKER_09 1:34:48

For sure.

SPEAKER_08 1:34:48

What what what do you think about the return of Ian Malcolm for for this film and him, you know, is he is Ian Malcolm now the the true face of Jurassic Park of the Jurassic films, do you think?

SPEAKER_09 1:34:58

So that's a fun question. Um I I personally, if there's a character I relate to most in the Jurassic franchise, it's probably Malcolm. Just sort of personality-wise, he's also he sort of he enjoys the dinosaurs like 10%, but then the other 90% is he's cynical and is telling everyone this is a horrible idea. Yeah. As far as characters are I relate to, I've got like a tiny bit of Grant in me, but I've mostly Malcolm, I would say. I enjoy Malcolm returning. I enjoy him getting to be, you know, basically the lead of a Jurassic movie. I uh have had this sort of discussion with other folks before. Um, I don't know if I've ever had it on a podcast, but like one in you know, in this age of movies that we live in where there's so many sequels and spin-offs and reboots and remakes and all that stuff, and you know, old characters are coming back or making cameos and doing all that stuff. You could kind of say that Jurassic did that like a long time ago with The Lost World, because like this isn't necessarily like the sequel story that you would expect. And you have a returning character in Ian Malcolm who is not, you might not have expected to return and be the lead guy. Um, and so yeah, that's that makes it fun for me. That makes it really you that makes the story really unique. I think that's something that makes the Lost World awesome. Is you know, you have this character coming back who was traumatized in the last movie. Um, and now he's kind of he's kind of gets to do something about it reluctantly. In the end, he's vindicated because everyone knows that Injun let a dinosaur loose in San Diego, and he's like, see, yeah, this these people are bad. Yeah. I told you. Um, and so uh long answer to say that I I love Malcolm coming back.

SPEAKER_08 1:36:46

I think he's part of that trend of the 90s where leading men were nerds, they were like Matthew Broderick in Godzilla. There was a there was a real move away from the stereotypes of Arnold Schwarzenegger and uh Sylvester Stallone, the kind of muscle men. Um and the 1990s had people who were good with computers as the people who were actually leading the film, and yeah, and Jeff Goldblum was part of that as well with um Independence Day.

SPEAKER_09 1:37:14

We never we never should have left the nineties. We were we were doing we were doing good things back then.

SPEAKER_08 1:37:18

Doing so well, and then suddenly, suddenly we we're we're back now with like muscle muscle men all over the place. But yeah, just uh just give the guy in the chair a chance.

SPEAKER_09 1:37:30

Yeah, I agree. Give the smart give the smart guy who's got a little bit of like experience in these heroin situations, like Ian Malcolm, give him a chance.

SPEAKER_08 1:37:40

Yeah. What what do you think of the rest of the cast that fill out the film? Because there's a lot more people involved in The Lost World than Jurassic Park.

SPEAKER_09 1:37:46

Oh yeah, yeah. Um, so I think Sarah Harding needs to come back to the franchise sometime. Yeah. Uh I think she's great. Um, I, you know, she might be number two female character in the franchise for me. She might be number one. It's hard to hard for me to put somebody above Ellie Sattler, but Sarah Harding is is a badass. And uh the that the moments with the Raptors in the climax of the film, um where she and especially when she like busts through the window and breaks out of the place before they get in the helicopter, like she's just fantastic. I don't, you know, I'm I'm probably missing someone, but like, you know, haven't quite had a female character like that in a little while in the Jurassic franchise.

SPEAKER_08 1:38:31

And somebody who can match Malcolm. That great scene where they're kind of talking about when they're going towards the camp before Kelly, you know, they discover her fire and they're arguing about the scientific process and the fact that you've got to be laid of grass. Murphy's Law, that's it. And I just I would love to have somebody like that in a future film.

SPEAKER_09 1:38:50

Yeah, I mean, honestly, uh Daniela Pineda in Fallen Kingdom and Dominion. Um, I thought her character was great and should have had like a thousand times more screen time. And don't get me wrong, Claire Claire Deering's great. She's just not the same type of character as Sarah Harding for sure. No. Um but the r on the rest of the cast, um Pete Posselthwaite, legend. Yeah, absolutely incredible. That's the last time I leave you in charge. Like, and the shot from him behind his hat with the fire, and it's so great. There, but there are I mean, you know, it comes back to David Kepp a little bit just writing some good characters, some good mercs who get eaten.

SPEAKER_08 1:39:29

Um and they they've all got some they've all got a little even if they've got a very small screen time, they they all have like a unique point to them.

SPEAKER_09 1:39:38

Very memorable, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:39:39

Yeah, you know, you've got Carter and you've got Peter Stormore's character who I can't remember. Dieter. Dieter, yeah, Dieter. Yeah. And Spielberg loves to take people like young actors or actors from like smaller independent films, and I think he gets like a real performance out of it because he kind of does the same with Jurassic Park. And like Vince Vaughn is great. I love the film, and particularly at that point in his career.

SPEAKER_09 1:40:04

Yeah, I mean, and Vince Vaughn's done a lot of stuff now, but like I remember seeing Vince Vaughn in a Jurassic movie as a kid and being like, What this guy's supposed to be in comedy movies. What's happening? Yeah. And but he's like per he's perfect, he's so authentic.

SPEAKER_08 1:40:19

Yeah, and I think Kepp and the way that Spielberg shoots the script is constantly having people talking over each other all the time that me multiple times throughout the film, there is one person having a conversation with somebody else and other people chipping in.

SPEAKER_09 1:40:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:40:34

And it that feels very 90s to me.

SPEAKER_09 1:40:36

You know, the lots of characters talking over each other, like that happens a lot in Jurassic Park 2. Um, like when they're at the Raptor Paddock and when they're in the dinner scene, and like that's something that I really like in The Lost World. I kind of hope that's gonna come back in rebirth too.

SPEAKER_08 1:40:52

Yeah. So and I think I like the idea that Kepp talked to Spielberg and they took the book and they were like, this is a story about hunters versus gatherers, and immediately thought there's conflict. He can pit these two people against each other and he can have archetypes within there. So you've got Pete Potherswaite, you know, my namesake, Roland Tembo, as the great white hunter.

SPEAKER_09 1:41:13

When uh when you were first messaging me about you know, collaborating and being a part of this podcast, I was like, this guy's named Roland, and we're talking about Jurassic right now. Like, what what is happening? I know.

SPEAKER_08 1:41:25

Yeah. And then uh we get Hammond's nephew, Ludlow, uh um Arlis Howard. And I think that's again, this is another Spielberg thing of taking family members and putting because he's um yeah, the nephew of um Hammond, and so therefore we've got conflict within the family, which Spielberg loves in his films. Yeah. And what I didn't realise until quite recently is the fact of his little hip flask that he's got.

SPEAKER_09 1:41:49

Oh, when they're on the island.

SPEAKER_08 1:41:50

Yeah. And he just slowly is getting steadily drunker as the film goes on.

SPEAKER_09 1:41:56

Well, I mean, not that surprising, I guess.

SPEAKER_08 1:41:59

But I really like that as his kind of this is how he like if you look at everybody else within the cast and the characters, how they respond is to be resourceful and somewhat pull together and do things, but he just wants to get drunk and numb himself from the experience and detach himself.

SPEAKER_09 1:42:16

Yeah, and I I also think deep down he's just terrified, honestly, and he's trying to like numb that.

SPEAKER_08 1:42:22

Yeah, I love the fact that when he stands up and asks everybody to let's let's move on out, and nobody does.

SPEAKER_09 1:42:28

That moment, oh my gosh. Everybody! Oh yeah, great stuff. And then Nick Van Owen gets them to move.

SPEAKER_08 1:42:37

Yeah, and you've got Kelly, and and Kelly in the book is not related to Malcolm at all. Yeah. She's just a student that somehow manages to work her way onto the trailer.

SPEAKER_09 1:42:47

Yeah, well, I mean, and there's another uh child character in the novel. Um and his name is escaping me. It starts with an R.

SPEAKER_08 1:42:54

Arby.

SPEAKER_09 1:42:55

Yeah. Oh, yeah, starts with the uh the phonetic R meaning Arby. Yeah, but they're both like in the novel, they're both really s quite smart, quite resourceful, Arby, especially.

SPEAKER_08 1:43:06

And I think it works much better actually having her again another family conflict.

SPEAKER_09 1:43:10

Yeah, I I like uh well, I mean, first of all, uh Vanessa Leechester is is great, like such a fun performance, honestly. Like, but also it gives depth to Malcolm, um, just about his what he's been up to and his family, and uh it gives him like a family member to be protective of and have love for, even though he's not always the best at it.

SPEAKER_08 1:43:34

The big moment that happens, and it happens at a similar time to the main road attack, is of course the trailer attack. Do you want to talk me through a little bit about your feelings about about this uh about this moment?

SPEAKER_09 1:43:44

You know, Jurassic Park and The Lost World both, like you just said, like their most sort of impactful, suspenseful moments come like an hour-ish into the movie. Like the whole movie builds to this point. Um, and that's definitely true in The Lost World. And then the scene starts without music, and then some music comes in that's fairly subtle as we're starting to build what's going on here, and you're realizing they have a they have the child of a dinosaur that probably wants it back. Um, but you know, it's raining in classic Jurassic fashion. Um and the T-Rexes come to get their baby, that's when things really kick off. Like a lot of when the T-Rexes destroy the trailers, all of Malcolm's quips in this movie are just wonderful to me. But like, you know, he stands up into the light and says, Mommy, he says, hang on, this is gonna be bad. And it's like there's maybe a debate in the fandom about like what what does he see when he looks out the window and says that? Um, and I guess we don't have a definitive answer.

SPEAKER_08 1:44:51

He's just smarter than us. Well that's what it's telling us. I've knows more than everybody else.

SPEAKER_09 1:44:57

Yeah, because like they they have the encounter with the T the T-Rex parents before, and it's relatively calm. There's no music, and which makes it so suspenseful. Um, and they hand off the baby, and then you know, Malcolm says, Hang on, this is gonna be bad. Like, I've always thought he like see he must like see them coming back. He sees the T-Rexes charging back at them, and there's like, oh shit. The T-Rexes destroy the trailers. You know, the point that I can see in my brain in this scene that's really always really impactful is like Eddie Carr gets there, realizes what's happened, and the music kicks in. And you know, it's it's pouring rain, it's storming. The music is just this driving percussion, all sorts like so many percussion instruments involved. Um, and it's just relentless. And you know, the brass and the woodwinds are coming in and punching too, as we're in this harrowing situation. I I don't know how else to sum it up other than like it's just an incredibly suspenseful scene. I've seen it a hundred times, and I still watch it and I'm like, man, this is so intense. Like, and it's because of the cinematography and the music, and it's just very, very intense.

SPEAKER_08 1:46:09

And and the plotting as well of actually how you do an action sequence. It's almost a bit of a lost art within the Jurassic World films, I think. You start in one location with the trailers, and then you you end somewhere completely different, and it takes time, and the scene is allowed to breathe and get bigger and bigger and like more destructive. And there's moments where it'll quieten down again with when Sarah Harding is on the glass and it's all splintering around her fingers. And that's just that feels like perfect Spielberg tension building moment.

SPEAKER_09 1:46:43

Oh, yeah. Well, and the trailer scene does something that all Jurassics do or should do. Like Jurassic has always been about like vehicles. There's always been always been like cool vehicles involved and different cool, different vehicles, multiple vehicles, and like something that Jurassic has always done is make these vehicles into dangerous places. Like they get attacked by dinosaurs, they get turned over, they get bumped, they get smashed. And so, like this the trailer scene in The Lost World for me as a kid, even was another escalation from the first one because like in the first one you just had cars and stuff like that. This one you've got two massive RV trailers and they're going over a cliff, and so it's like making vehicles into a dangerous thing is is a staple of Jurassic, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_08 1:47:31

Those safe that's the like one place that they can they should be able to feel safe. Yeah. And the death of Eddie Carr. I cannot, even at the age of 38, I still can't really watch that scene without feeling just so much pain for for Eddie.

SPEAKER_09 1:47:45

It's it's visceral. It's you make an a very easy argument that it's the most violent death in the franchise. And it's classic.

SPEAKER_08 1:47:52

Like he's such a nice character. He's I d I don't know what his vice is to to violence and technology, not good bedfellows.

SPEAKER_09 1:48:01

Yeah. I he his vice was being too good of a too good of a person.

SPEAKER_08 1:48:06

Yeah, they needed yeah, and I yeah, I love the fact that I mean I I hate the fact that he dies, but in that response, I love it because it's it's the safety gloves are off once Eddie Carr's gone and the trailers are gone. There is you know that nobody is gonna come and save them. They're gonna have to do it themselves.

SPEAKER_05 1:48:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:48:25

What do you think of the inclusion of the raptors in uh The Lost World? How do you think they do do they differ in the characterization than we get in the first in the first film? Definitely, yeah.

SPEAKER_09 1:48:35

They're the raptors that have been left to fend for themselves, and they're much wilder. And the tiger raptors specifically, you know, they're male, whereas the ones we saw primarily in Jurassic Park were female. And so, yeah, they're just vicious and aggressive, and that the cue and the score is called the Raptors Appear.

SPEAKER_08 1:48:55

My favorite tracco, I think, of it.

SPEAKER_09 1:48:57

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. For that scene at the end near the end of the film, the climax of the Sorna section of the film, which I think thanks in no small part to the music, but like I think it's just a all-time suspenseful Jurassic scene, all-time suspenseful suspenseful sci-fi scene because it's the music is relentless and the raptors are relentless. Um, and it's just great.

SPEAKER_08 1:49:19

And we s again, we know more than the characters know, particularly in the long grass. You know, that's yeah, it's always the best when a filmmaker can show you something before a character sees it, and we just we just sigh because we know what's we're like, oh hell is gonna break loose in a minute.

SPEAKER_09 1:49:36

The long grass. I I wonder if we're getting some more of that in rebirth.

SPEAKER_08 1:49:41

Just a little nod. That's all I need. I just need some raptors and some long grass or some tails going across.

SPEAKER_09 1:49:45

Yeah, I mean, any uh any vicious creature and some long grass would be fun.

SPEAKER_08 1:49:50

And as as we're kind of talking about a score, how do you think it differs to Jurassic Park?

SPEAKER_09 1:49:54

Oh man, this is a chance to share my favorite Jurassic music fun fact, which is that. John Williams, after he had written the score for Jurassic Park, hurt his back and was not able to conduct about 90 plus percent of the recording sessions for Jurassic Park. Okay. Um they brought in a guy named Artie Kane, who is a composer and a conductor, to conduct those scores. So The Lost World was the first Jurassic score that John Williams conducted in its entirety. And I think absolutely nothing against Jurassic Park because it's the best score ever. I'm a little biased, but you know, I think in the Lost World score, you can feel that a little bit. Like you can feel there's just this energy, and it's real there's so much spirit in it. But it's also so starkly different to the Jurassic Park score. Um in instrument choices, in style choices, and rhythm choices. Um there's so much, you know, so many different percussion instruments involved and used in crazy unique ways. Um the bass drum in the Lost World score is used in ways that like other film scores do not use it. Like it's in the game trail scene, if you listen closely, the Mementosaurus, the bass drum, is just like making its footsteps in the game in the game trail scene. And it's used as footsteps in in other musical moments too. Um, and that just doesn't get that doesn't happen very often. Like movies don't call for that very often because there's not big dinosaurs stepping around. And so the score is just so primal, but it's also full of so much adventure. Like when they get to the island and they roll out in the trailers across that plain, like grassland or whatever you want to call it, and the score there, just triumphant brass and woodwinds on that theme that we all know and love. Um, the theme itself is really unique. Uh, just to be a music nerd for a second, but like it just chromatically walks up the scale, basically, C D E F in a lot of instances, on those chords right in a row. And so that's just a really unique musical thing. Um, it's you know takes it out of the context of a normal scale and makes it feel very adventurous and mysterious, and I don't know, it's just it's brilliant, honestly. If you I I love this score, if you can't tell.

SPEAKER_08 1:52:28

So yeah. No, it's it's yeah, I I I enjoy it too, and I think I enjoy it. I think probably more than Jurassic Park. I think there are moments in there which are I just feel like Williams letting loose, and he doesn't fall back on the Jurassic Park theme or anything like that. That's not it's not really part of the score.

SPEAKER_09 1:52:48

Yeah, I you know John Williams doesn't do that many sequels, um, as evidenced by Jurassic. Um, because he's only done two out of the six. Um and he's done all the Star Wars and he's done all the Indiana Jones. Um that's I mean, honestly, it's another reason that this movie and this score are very valuable to me, very high up on my personal ranking as a fan, um, just because it's something that doesn't ha hasn't happened very often. Spielberg and Williams working together again on a sequel for Jurassic Park.

SPEAKER_08 1:53:22

Yeah. What do we know about the original ending? Because a bit like Jurassic Park, Spielberg decided to change the ending for Jurassic Park, and he did the same for The Lost World. Um, what's what is the original ending for The Lost World that they were gonna film?

SPEAKER_09 1:53:37

So, to my knowledge, it was we take off from Sorna in a helicopter, and it is ter it is attacked by Pteranodons. That was what I just mentioned was Spielberg's original ending. The original ending was supposed to feature Pteranodons attacking the escape helicopter, but this was cut when Steven Spielberg suggested the San Diego sequence, which would bring dinosaurs to the mainland. The concept was initially going to feature in a third Jurassic movie, the Pteranodon sequence, but Spielberg decided to put it into the second as he did not think he would direct another. Oh, sorry, I misunderstood that. The Dinosaurs on the mainland concept was initially going to feature in a third Jurassic movie.

SPEAKER_08 1:54:17

Oh, I see.

SPEAKER_09 1:54:18

But Spielberg decided to put it into the second as he did not think he would direct another.

SPEAKER_08 1:54:22

So taking away that from uh Joe Johnson, we're probably not gonna do another one, so we're gonna take all the best ideas. I mean, I'm that's fair.

SPEAKER_09 1:54:29

Yeah, that's one way to look at it, yeah. Um, but all I mean, uh he was right, I guess he hasn't directed another one. The sequence take takes place in San Diego, California, but only one sequence was actually filmed there. Um when the engine helicopter flies over the wharf and banks towards the city, that is actually San Diego. The rest of the scenes were filmed in Burbank, California.

SPEAKER_08 1:54:51

I think I think the the new ending of the San Diego stuff that ties in nicely to King Kong and obviously to offer Conan Doyle's original. Yeah, Godzilla. Yeah, yeah. It's that it's Spielberg having his cake and eating it. I think if I'm gonna do a dinosaur movie, I'm not gonna let somebody else go and have all the fun of putting a dinosaur on the mainland. I want to do that.

SPEAKER_09 1:55:13

True. Well, and we never uh you know, if this if we'd gotten the original ending, we probably would have never gotten the sequence of David Kepp being eaten in front of a blockbuster. No, so which is brilliant. Which is amazing.

SPEAKER_08 1:55:26

And it is there's loads of crew apparently in that bit.

SPEAKER_09 1:55:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:55:30

I think I spotted because I watched it the other day, I think Kathleen Kennedy is there as well as part of that group running. I'm not sure, but that'd be cool. And I think because I think it's a load of crew that are running, and then David Kepp is the one that gets singled out and eats it.

SPEAKER_09 1:55:46

So uh Jack and Ryan and I, uh members of Outpost, we've been to the spot where they filmed all of this and where David Kepp got eaten.

SPEAKER_08 1:55:55

And you know, did did did did you lay some flowers?

SPEAKER_09 1:55:58

I was about to say we you know we scatter we scattered some uh Jurassic toys or something. I don't know.

unknown 1:56:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 1:56:05

But lit a candle. Yeah, it's a cool it's a cool spot. It does not look the same.

SPEAKER_08 1:56:10

Right. And I also love where the bus goes into the blockbuster.

SPEAKER_09 1:56:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:56:13

All the video store and it's uh like all the fake move movie posters.

SPEAKER_09 1:56:18

Yeah, well, and like it's as a kid, like that that contributed to like this movie is just so chaotic and so much action.

SPEAKER_08 1:56:25

Yeah, I think it's a good thing to leave you with as you walk out.

SPEAKER_09 1:56:28

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_08 1:56:29

So yeah, the film was a um it was a box office success. Probably didn't take as much as uh Jurassic Park. Um but it wasn't quite as successful, you know, critically. And I I think that's fine. I think even Spielberg says that you know it's not as good as Jurassic Park, but it's still a good time. You know, he and I think that's kind of all you need from a from a sequel. Do you do you think it's a good continuation of the Jurassic story?

SPEAKER_09 1:56:54

Yeah, definitely. To what I was saying earlier about it kind of being a spin-off film, like it just feels it feels closely related to the first one, but it doesn't feel like a big blockbuster sequel type of a thing. So and I think it adds so much lore to the franchise, obviously, and to the story. And yeah, we've uh we need to go back to Sorna.

SPEAKER_08 1:57:15

Yes. I've mentioned this, and you'll probably hear me, dear listeners, speak about this man m many times going forward. But once they leave an island, they seem to never want to go back there. And then when they go back there, they forget the island that they've just left. So we go from Eastland Nublar to Sauna, and then we stay in Sauna and never go back to Nublar, and we're all like, Oh please I want to go back to Nublar. So then we all go back to Nublar, and then we blow up Nublar, and Sauna never gets a mention, just gets like a drop line in Fallen Kingdom, and it's out there somewhere. Now, now the now the thing is let's go back to Sauna.

SPEAKER_09 1:57:48

Now I wonder if it's ever gonna happen, but with David Kevin. Yeah, well, and like I wonder if you know if Sauna is ever gonna come into play somehow, whether it's down the line somewhere or what, but yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:58:03

Maybe because he was instrumental in bringing Sauna to the screen, I I'm interested to see whether it's gonna feature at least in dialogue, maybe for this film.

SPEAKER_09 1:58:14

I I mean I would almost guarantee that. That sounds I don't know, it might sound forward or crazy, but I bet I bet it gets mentioned.

SPEAKER_07 1:58:24

So yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:58:25

Wonderful. Well just um yeah, uh have you got any kind of closing thoughts about um The Lost World or anything that you'd like to kind of maybe your favorite moment that you kind of rewind, maybe?

SPEAKER_09 1:58:36

Oh man. Um the score that's under the climax of the movie, the T-Rex in San Diego, is called Visitor in San Diego. And I've I've always loved that cue title because it's so sim is so simple, but it says so much because it's like this isn't like a per this isn't a tourist, this is a monster. So um, and that musical cue is just organized chaos. Like, there's just so much going on in that music, every section of the orchestra, um, and it's just an incredible piece of music. And so, like, that's just always when I watch The Lost World. I love the rest of the movie, but then I get to the end and I'm like, Yes, I get like I made it to the San Diego sequence because the San Diego sequence is just it's just a blast, and the music is a blast too. And so I love the shot when uh they're in all those warehouses and the animal and like four animal control vehicles pull up and they just immediately turn around. And it's just like, yes, that's exactly what should happen.

SPEAKER_08 1:59:41

It's great, it's uh sign, no animals beyond this point.

SPEAKER_09 1:59:45

Yeah, yeah. It's it's fantastic.

SPEAKER_08 1:59:48

And I love that we pan through that that office where you see like kids and everything like that, and just another world going on as the T-Rex makes its way and then roars at the city. I love that kind of look like little bits of extra life that we get in the shop. And that's where you have the kind of bum bum bum, which feels like bum bum bum bum.

SPEAKER_09 2:00:09

Yeah, it's so it's modern, it's modern, but it's like uh there's some classic like monster movie stuff in there, and it's Max Stanley, yeah, yeah, good job. Good shout out, nice.

SPEAKER_08 2:00:21

Yeah. Um, so yeah, I'd just like to say thank you so much for joining me today. It's been a real blast. And um also thank you for creating my amazing theme music. I've had I I love it, and I've had some really nice feedback about it too. So thanks.

SPEAKER_09 2:00:36

Of course. Thank you for having me. Um, thank you for asking me to do that. Um, I can all I mean that's something I can pretty much never say no to is when someone says, Hey, do you want to create music for my Jurassic thing? Yes, immediately. Yes, I do, because Jurassic is the best. And so um thanks for letting me be part of this podcast. And yeah, I hope lots of people listen to this podcast because it's great.

SPEAKER_08 2:01:00

Thank you, thank you very much. Um, where can people find you online?

SPEAKER_09 2:01:03

So I'm at Caleb Compose on pretty much everything, uh, including YouTube, where you can also find me just under my name, Caleb Burnett. Um, I'm uh making music and unboxing toys and making vlogs over there. So uh yeah, at Caleb Compose.

SPEAKER_08 2:01:20

Yeah, and I look forward to listening to you on the uh in general podcast.

SPEAKER_09 2:01:24

Oh, yeah. Uh I should definitely say that. Uh follow the Jurassic Outpost and uh listen to the In General podcast, uh, where I am uh somewhat regularly on there and uh my music is also on there.

SPEAKER_08 2:01:37

Amazing. Well, thank you again so much for joining me. My huge thanks to Caleb for that conversation. If you liked it, then can I please ask that you share it on social media using the hashtag road to rebirthpod. You can also follow the show on Instagram at road to rebirthpod. Next week I'm chatting with Daniel Stephen of the amazing Stuck on Sauna podcast about 2001's Jurassic Park 3. But until then, I'll just say thank you very much for listening and goodbye.

SPEAKER_00 2:02:12

It's rare that you hear from the star of the movie before the movies come out.

SPEAKER_08 2:02:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:02:17

You know what I mean? Like then hear them like saying how it feels like a disaster.

SPEAKER_08 2:02:23

Hello and welcome back to Rebirth. I'm the Lord Squad. Each week in the lead up to Jurassic World Rebirth, I'm sitting down and chatting with a guest about an entry or aspect of the Jurassic Summer. And today is the turn of 2001's Jurassic Park 3. By the time The Lost World came out in 1997, a brand had been established, and the Dino Boom was not abating. While The Lost World was in production, Universal Studios in California opened the long gestated Jurassic Park River Adventure, which takes riders on a tour of Jurassic Park before plunging them down an 80-foot drop in a flume as a T-Rex bursts out of a waterfall. And on the BBC in 1999, there was the groundbreaking documentary series Walking with Dinosaurs, which coincidentally is also making a comeback that all in all, it was just a mere formality that in June 1998, a third Jurassic Park entered production. However, Spielberg would be vacating the director's chair and handing it over to Jumunji and ILM alumni Joe Johnson. But Spielberg would still have a very active executive producer role. He had a clear idea of what he wanted the story to involve. He wanted the pteranodons that he'd remove from the end of The Lost World to finally get their moment in a new Jurassic film. He also wanted Sam Neal back as Dr. Alan Grant. However, beyond that point, the story was up in the air. David Kepp was not returning. Aussie director Craig Rosenberg was the first to take a stab at a script, however, that was passed on pretty quickly, for then Peter Buckman to come on and have another go. But again, this didn't really cut it, and nobody was particularly excited about the story that they had going into production. Time was ticking on, and so Spielberg, as is his wont, halted production, and Johnson threw out the script five weeks before shooting began, only to get on board election writers Alexander Payne and Jim Taylor. To help me navigate the tricky and troubled waters of Jurassic Park 3, I sat down with Daniel Stephen, the host and creator of the amazing Jurassic Park 3 podcast called Stuck on Sauna. Hello, Daniel.

SPEAKER_00 2:04:48

Hi Roland, I'm doing great. Thank you very much for inviting me on. I'm very happy to be here and excited to talk Jurassic Park 3.

SPEAKER_08 2:04:54

Amazing. Yeah, me too. This this film holds a very special um place in my heart, and there's just so much to talk about it. My first question is are you excited for rebirth?

SPEAKER_00 2:05:08

Oh, yeah. I mean, right now the hype is real. It's the bar is pretty high for it. I really do feel like it's potentially what Jurassic Park 3 could have been. It's got that same kind of like, I mean, apparently a family's crashed on the island. Um, the kind of rescue or unintentional rescue mission, you got the spino back.

SPEAKER_06 2:05:26

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 2:05:27

Um, hints at the JP Through Raptor, kind of like similar style design. So and David Kepp is writing it. So no matter what else was going into the film, who was in it, who directed it, David Kepp, he knows much more about Jurassic Park and Lost World than I'll ever know. Like that was his job, right?

SPEAKER_06 2:05:44

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:05:45

Looking at the source material. So I mean, he's the guy you want writing this film. So that's like my number one reason why I'm excited for it. So as of this recording, I'm very, very excited.

SPEAKER_08 2:05:55

But yeah, I'm no, I'm very excited for Gareth Edwards and for obviously David Gabb, somebody who's probably read those books more than anybody.

SPEAKER_00 2:06:03

I would assume back in the 90s he was like nonstop delving into these books, I mean, diving into it, reading it, notes on the walls, like he had to know everything. Even if the movies weren't very like closely um reliable to the novels, right? There's a lot of changes, especially with The Lost World, but it still maintains a lot of like the same feeling on the Ian Malcolm character, I mean, great dialogue. So it's I don't know. It's a very exciting time to be a Jurassic fan.

SPEAKER_06 2:06:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:06:31

Uh more so than I think I was even you know a few years ago. After you know, Fallen Kingdom, I was kinda let down pretty pretty big, but uh right now it's like okay, it's a fresh, kind of like a fresh start. We're back to an island. It's everything I love about Jurassic Park, so I mean I couldn't be more excited really at this point. I'm just of of course, you know, I'm very cautious about being let down. That's happened multiple times in my life when it comes to Jurassic Park.

SPEAKER_08 2:07:00

I'm just amazed at the speed, like the turnaround of this film, particularly after Dominion, now that was kind of said to be the end, you know, and then suddenly, bang, we're back to it.

SPEAKER_00 2:07:09

Yeah, a quick one too. Yeah, it is amazing how how fast it came about. And I mean in my mind, it's just because like David Kepp knows it so well. And when I think of it like as what JP3 could have been, I do wonder if he had been like working on this idea, at least in his mind, if not on paper, you know, for the last two decades, just thinking about man, if I had if I had time to like actually write a Jurassic Park 3, what would it have been? And I wonder if like that kind of spread things along or were the conversations with him and Spielberg throughout the years, you know, because it happened really quick, more so than like I mean, it was almost unexpected. When they said the release date, I was kind of shocked by it, you know, how soon it would be.

SPEAKER_08 2:07:47

And that's interesting because that they must have been so confident on that script, which you know, I suppose we will talk about today with uh Jurassic Park 3. That wasn't always the case during that point. Uh well, to today the mission is to try and get across all the kind of fun and slightly frantic uh behind-the-scenes stories from Jurassic Park 3. Um, might not be able to cover it all. You know, this is just a taster.

SPEAKER_00 2:08:09

Yeah, let's do it.

SPEAKER_08 2:08:10

Daniel, do you mind setting us up by giving us a synopsis for Jurassic Park 3?

SPEAKER_00 2:08:14

Yeah, I mean, the base it's what's great about JP3 is the very simple, straightforward uh plot synopsis. I mean, our lovable Dr. Grant, you know, the man who says he will never return to the island, is approached by a seemingly wealthy businessman named Paul Kirby, who offers him the opportunity for money to be a tour guide from the air over an airplane to go over Isla Sorna. But of course, Paul Kirby is not a wealthy businessman. He has different intentions. His son is on the island after a parasailing accident. And that's pretty much, I mean, chaos ensues when the plane crashes. I mean, that's pretty much that's what's kind of great about it. Like it's it's good and bad, obviously, right? But I mean, it's very simple. It's a rescue mission. They gotta rescue the kid. That wasn't Grant's intention, but uh throughout the film he goes from being done with dinosaurs, like the living in-gen monsters, to having an appreciation for them, even though his uh student was almost killed. I don't know how else to describe the movie. It's it's No, that's great.

SPEAKER_08 2:09:10

That's that's that's amazing. Thank you. What was your memory of first seeing Jurassic Park 3?

SPEAKER_00 2:09:14

Yeah, the first time I saw it, I was actually like disappointed in it. Okay. And I don't know I can't remember like like going into it, I was 13 years old in the summer of 2001. But I mean I was counting down the days, going to Dan's JP3 page, um, rumors, pictures, everything. Um in my problem might have been like I had read the junior novelization before I saw the film. So that could have influenced it a little bit. Whereas like I should just watch the movie. Because the novelization is like sometimes word for word, right? It's very faithful to I've never actually read it, actually. Yeah, I mean I think it because some things are different, not much, but like as a kid I read it and I saw the movie. And the movie, there were a lot of great things I loved about it, but I think the big thing was the way it ended so quickly, it it felt really weird. Like even as a 13-year-old, I felt like I needed more from that movie. There needed to be something big at the end of it, instead of just being rescued. So my first initial viewing was a little bit of a letdown. I didn't like instantly like now I love it. I appreciate it. I get more of the backstory for maybe why it wasn't a longer film. Um, but something felt different about it compared to watching the first two movies, which were about a half hour longer. And it's like I mean you watch Jurassic Park and you don't see the T-Rex until like an hour into it, right? I mean, there's they Spielberg did a great job like hiding the dinosaurs where JP3 is like instantly, which is a good thing now, right? I look at it as like a positive, but you get right into the action, um, the Spinosaurus is on full display right when you get to the island. So it it was very different. The T-Rex getting killed, you know, Alan and Ellie not being together. There's a lot of different like as a kid it just felt different. Yeah. But of course, I saw it twice in theaters. Then when it was on VHS for Christmas, you know, I just me and my brother watched it like all the time, just like nonstop. Just it was always playing. And I think just over the years, especially since Jurassic World came out, like I've learned to appreciate it more. Okay. Like more curious about it.

SPEAKER_08 2:11:17

But my my first time watching Jurassic Park 3, I was at the the family holiday to San Francisco actually, and I was just so excited to see it. Um, yeah, 13. I I just loved it for the first time I saw it. I remember going back to the UK and taking my friends to go and see it, and nobody else was as excited as me coming out. I was just I was amazing. I could I I honestly just turn me around, I'll go, I'll go and sit and watch it again. I think I enjoyed it more than The Lost World, and I didn't realise why at the time. I think it was just because the the look of the film felt closer to how Dean Cundy filmed the jungle in Jurassic Park, and then you had somebody completely different for Yanusz Kaminsky. Jurassic Park 3 was the first thing I had on DVD, and with it. Came DVD extras. And so I just poured over all of those and just watched it. And so it was the film I knew probably the best out of all three. So, as I said in my introduction, this is the first film not directed by Spielberg and no source material from Crichton directly. So we have Joe Johnson directing. Why do you think Joe Johnson ended up getting this role to direct Jurassic Park 3?

SPEAKER_00 2:12:21

Yeah, I mean, from everything I've read, you know, Joe had worked with Spielberg and George Lucas, um, going back to the 70s. I mean, so they've all known each other. And I know that I think from one one quote that I had right was that Joe had asked Spielberg to direct The Lost World.

SPEAKER_08 2:12:36

Right.

SPEAKER_00 2:12:36

And then Spielberg decided to direct it. But he said that if there was another sequel, you could direct it. So it sounded like it was a more like a friend uh type of situation. Like, I respect you, the filmmaker. You can do the next one. And I mean Joe Johnston in the 90s, I mean Jumanji, that's like a movie I grew up like loving. Um Honey Has Shrunk the Kids, uh, Rocketeer, you know, October Sky. Like he's done some like to me, some 90s classics and beyond. I mean, it makes sense why he would direct Jurassic Park 3, more so than Colin Trevaro would direct Jurassic World. You know, like as far as like experience um and connections, that kind of thing. It makes sense.

SPEAKER_08 2:13:11

Um I love the stu I read a story that Joe Johnson went on like a dig with the paleontologist Jack Horner to get into character not the film.

SPEAKER_06 2:13:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 2:13:20

And that's where they cooked up the idea for letting the T-Rex take a backseat and kind of finding something bigger and badder, I think. Um but what what's what's your idea of the the T-Rex being A on the poster and B like the main antagonist of the film?

SPEAKER_00 2:13:33

I mean, I've always liked it. Um even as a kid, I thought that was I wasn't some like diehard T-Rex fan. So I mean when it when it died, it wasn't like devastating to me. I think the poster change was pretty cool, and I love the JP3 poster. I hate that they've taken the spino off, I think, like the 4K release. I think they've changed it on some of them, which is kind of strange to me because I mean it's one of the great things about JP3 is making changes and you know, trying something new. I mean, killing off the T-Rex, clearly, if we've had six films now, the T-Rex has been a hero quite often. Like it's it's almost comical at this point if they try it again, where the T-Rex is gonna save the day at the end. The Spino makes sense. It's a good it makes sense for a good marketing, you know, selling point for a third film. It's like gotta do something different. There's bigger dinosaurs. And yeah, I love that Joe was clearly interested in dinos and like wanted to know more. I mean, I I can't say anymore if if Colin did the same thing or not, but with Joe, like from everything I've read, even I think last year he spoke at the Museum of the Rockies, I think it was. Some one of the museums at um it was like some kind of fundraiser he was speaking at, which I would have loved to have gone, but the the tickets were a little bit uh out of my price range. But I mean, he clearly still has an interest and a passion for you know for dinosaurs, which is pretty cool. So I mean I'm sure that might have played a little bit into Spielberg asking him or letting him do JP3.

SPEAKER_08 2:14:58

The the thing of Crichton not coming back, do you know whether Crichton was consulted at all?

SPEAKER_00 2:15:02

That's a good question. I I would think so, but I don't know for sure. I mean, I don't know if I've for sure. Okay, so we know David Kepp supposedly came up with the idea of a simple rescue mission.

SPEAKER_06 2:15:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:15:12

Like just make it very simple. So I don't know if I'm getting confused where it was Kepp or if it was Crichton who was involved for a few days but couldn't like crack an idea, like think of a good idea for a third film. I should look I shouldn't know that answer, but I don't. I feel like I mean because I feel like there must have been a conversation, surely, with the the relationship that's Bill Berg and Oh, I would I would assume he'd be I mean, between him and David Kepp, they'd probably be the first two people you would talk to. Um and I think one of the things, even as a a 13-year-old who had read the novels, I was kind of surprised that Paul Kirby wasn't involved with um Dodgson, like just having that kind of character. Like why wasn't he that same character trying to because you read the the Lost World novel and it's like okay, you're going to Isla Sorna, you're gonna steal dinosaur eggs or whatever you need to take. Yeah, you'd probably want a dinosaur expert, right? So kidnapping Grant makes sense. Like that seems like the most obvious logical plot line for the film, but they never go there. You know, they Paul Kirby's just just a guy. So I mean, I feel like if Criden was involved, he probably like just used the Lost World plot, the plot that you threw out from the book, because the movie and the book are very different, but there's so much in that book they could have used for JP3, and I feel like they were on the right track, like they were they were getting there, right? I I'm so curious. So like if I I haven't really thought much about that, how much was Criden involved in it? Because I think if he was involved even for a few days or a month, like I feel like he would have suggested more from the Lost World novel.

SPEAKER_08 2:16:51

Because it's a big daunting job for Joe Johnson to take on. Bilberg's not, you know, he's gonna be executive producing it, you know, he's gonna go off and do some other films, and you're gonna be the one that's handling it, and Michael Crichton now isn't gonna be involved. You're like, oh my yeah, how do I kind of navigate this mammoth film?

SPEAKER_00 2:17:08

Yeah, I mean, that's it's a good question. I I do wonder if if Joe Johnson signed on, like, did he think David Kepp was involved? Did he think Michael Crichton was involved? Do you think Spielberg would be more available than he was? Because I mean, you know, what I've read, and I think most people know, like, there was a script in 1999 from Craig Rosenberg that was tossed out, you know, and like if I guess the question would be if they'd gone with that first script, or I mean because they didn't film until I think late summer into the fall of 2000, right? So it it makes me now just think about this. Like, if I could ask Joe Johnston questions, I'd be asking when you signed on, what was the plan for the did Spielberg give you a a treatment or an outline and say, This is what I want? Or did he say, Hey, you're gonna have Michael Cryden working with you for the next six months? You know, was there anything like that? Because the idea of yeah, Joe Johnston, okay, you're on the film, do whatever you want. Cap's not involved, Crichton's not involved, Spielberg, I'm working on a different film. Like, that'd be pretty stressful. Are you sure about that, right?

SPEAKER_08 2:18:13

Yeah, I bet. So that first script, is that the first script that we know of, the 1999 one?

SPEAKER_00 2:18:19

Yeah, so that's the one, if I'm recalling correctly. They were, I think there's two different planes. Like one for sure, one plane crashed on the island, the second plane, there's like kids on one plane, parents on the other plane, something like that. And one plane crashes, and the other one they try to rescue the family. We there are storyboards available, which is a drastically different movie than JP3.

SPEAKER_06 2:18:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 2:18:39

Um the storyboards I've seen have the baryonycs, but they do have like that classic, like sleeping baryonycs by the river and they're rafting, kind of like from the novel. Um, and Grant is there, but Grant has like a beard and long hair. And I don't know for sure if this is it gets very confusing because I've I've read so many different like rumors or so many different like drafts. I I've not read this script, I can't find it, but um I think it was the JP Visual History, might talk about this one a little bit. But I don't know if this is the one where they wanted Grant to be like living on the island. I'm not sure if that's how he gets involved.

SPEAKER_08 2:19:12

The kind of Robinson Crusoe thing.

SPEAKER_00 2:19:14

Um, because there's another script, Peter Buckman, from April 2000, where it ends with Grant staying on the island. The Craig Rosenberg script is kind of a mystery, but there's there are some storyboards out there, definitely multiple teenagers on the island being chased by dinosaurs and Grant's there. Yeah. And the Joe Johnson quote is something like the script read like a bad episode of Friends. And so they tossed it out. And I'm pretty sure he was referring to this to this script. Because I mean, there's nothing as far as now, it's completely like tossed out the window in 1999.

SPEAKER_08 2:19:42

Yeah. And then we get Peter Buckman, who is a com who's a an unknown to me, really.

SPEAKER_00 2:19:48

He's he's done a couple. I'm trying to think last time I looked at his um IMDB. I'm drawing a blank, but he's done like a couple movies. I don't think there's been anything like major releases in the past like 15 years. I don't know why. Same with Craig Rosenberg. I don't know what the big interest was in getting Rosenberg or Peter Buckman. There must have been some connection. Or maybe they just assume like they would write the first draft and then they'd bring in somebody else to come out.

SPEAKER_08 2:20:13

Yeah, just to get them started. Right.

SPEAKER_00 2:20:14

And that could be as simple as what it was. Um yeah, Peter Buckman, because Craig Rosenberg, I'm thinking summer into fall 99, and then the first draft I've seen of from Peter Buckman was in April 2000. Right. Okay. And that's where there's like the mainland investigation, there's like dinosaur attacks or something like that, and they're trying to like find out what's going on at that point.

SPEAKER_08 2:20:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 2:20:35

So it's very different. And it's very different than the final JP3 film.

SPEAKER_08 2:20:38

So it's Yeah, I I love the episode that you did of Stuck on Sauna with Oh good.

SPEAKER_00 2:20:43

You listened to it, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 2:20:43

So yeah, I've I've I've listened to the series twice.

SPEAKER_00 2:20:46

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean that I think it was episode seven. I love doing that, and it's it brings a whole new life to the the script. It's it does.

SPEAKER_08 2:20:53

And it's it's pretty out there in places. I wasn't expecting it to be uh as dark in in in in in places. There's lots of people die.

SPEAKER_00 2:21:03

Um yeah, the stampede at the end.

SPEAKER_08 2:21:06

Yeah. Yeah, I mean that came out of nowhere. Yeah, I was not expecting that.

SPEAKER_00 2:21:10

And that's something I'm sure like even if that script made it to the fine like shooting, they might have been like, you can't kill off this character like that. You gotta No. It's pretty brutal. And it's just with a foot like that smashed, and it's so close to the end, and yeah, you know, they're bombing the island and dinosaurs exploding, and it's like and then Grant's staying behind on the island. Like they I like it because I think it's it's different, it's out there. And I like the idea of like a mainland investigation, it's pretty interesting. Yes, it almost feels like a TV show sort of X-Files. Oh, yeah, X-Files for sure. Yeah, I mean it's it would have been very interesting. And I mean I get the idea of simplifying it and just keeping the movie on the island. But even that, like, they really did toss out a lot of the script.

SPEAKER_08 2:21:52

I mean, a lot of things stay the same, but I mean there's no that dirt bike chase and that yeah, I was gonna talk about the dirt, but that and they see they have an obsession in Jurassic with motorbikes and dinosaurs. They want raptors and motorbikes. But that is just so long. I just couldn't believe it just kept going. So we're out of the genetics lab and then we're we're popping wheelies, we're rushing around the complex, and then heading off into the jungle. It's like, God, Bly, these bikes are doing really well.

SPEAKER_00 2:22:20

Oh, yeah, the fact that the bikes even work at all is uh it's kind of funny. But uh yeah, I do like there's something about dirt bike, motorcycle in the jungle. It's tough because like in theory, I like it. I love the idea of it.

SPEAKER_06 2:22:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:22:31

Jurassic World, I think the motorcycle in the woods and the jungle, like, you know, it didn't work as well for me as uh the idea of reading JP3 where these they're on dirt bikes and maybe on some trails, I don't know, but it is interesting. Spielberg clearly loved the idea and wouldn't give up on yeah, like we need more dirt bikes, more bikes. I'm trying to think what else was in that script that was uh kind of out there. I mean, a lot of it's just like small changes. Um I do like the the Paul character and his son, that kind of relationship. Yeah. It's kind of an overused storyline, the father who works too much and doesn't have a great relationship with his son, but then by the end of the film, they're you know, they're embracing and it's like it's simple. I like it.

SPEAKER_08 2:23:11

I also quite like the the the Grant aspect of that relationship as well. You know, in Jurassic Park, he's not okay with kids at all, and then learns to be good with kids by the end of it. And in that script, he is still great with kids, and he's teaching another, you know, man, another father, how to relate to his children.

SPEAKER_00 2:23:31

Yeah, no, that that makes sense. I also think that I like that Grant wants to go to the island. In in the script, his goal is to set up like a research station on the island, which is pretty cool. He wants to go there, like that's his mission. And I mean, it leads to the ending with a script where he wants to stay behind. But in the movie, they did a 180. It's like hates the island, hates the dinosaurs. Yeah. So I'm very curious, like, in the process, who made the decision to change it? That's a big it really changes everything um about his character from from the script to the movie.

SPEAKER_08 2:24:00

And I was wondering with that script, at what point the cast was actually brought on board? Was you know, William H. Macy and everything, because his character's called Paul Roby, uh, in uh that in that script. Do you think he was brought in and he thought he was playing that character?

SPEAKER_00 2:24:16

Oh yeah, I would say a hundred percent. I I think when I talked to him, he said he had a script initially sent to him, but it was like the first he in his mind like the first draft, like episode one, but they're not like so. I'm assuming I think the timeline's something like they had the Peter Buckren script that I read in my podcast is from April 2000, and it's only 50 pages. So it's kind of more like a treatment outline, but it has quite a bit of information in there. I've then read a script that's I I'm guessing from June, where it's that 50 pages extended to like 105 pages, but it's all the same storyline, just like more professional. I'm pretty sure it's Alexander Payne and Jim Taylor came on board, I'm guessing, in July 2000, for about six weeks to rewrite it into the film that we know. And I like to think by then William H. Macy was probably signed on.

SPEAKER_08 2:25:09

They would have had to be, surely, because that you know, they were just about to go in. I cannot imagine Joe Johnson's position of you've got a cast of actors that you are gonna be in charge of, you're the one that's you know helming the shit.

SPEAKER_00 2:25:20

Yeah, I can't imagine. I mean, I think the only thing only it's probably you know possible is one money, but also that it's Jurassic Park 3 and the first two films were so successful, you have Spielberg involved, and I mean I think William H. Macy, you know, Sam Neil, Ta Leone, if they they learn the script is tossed out, I'm sure they'd be like, that's very frustrating. It's a lasting actor wants, probably, but yeah, they're professionals and you gotta trust the studio at that point because they're not gonna let JP3, you know, be a disaster, or so they you know, we're hoping.

SPEAKER_08 2:25:53

And what and what what's your thoughts on the cast that we actually get here, you know, Sam Neil coming back?

SPEAKER_00 2:25:57

Yeah, I mean, I'm all about Sam Neil coming back, and I was a kid. I wasn't like a big Ian Malcolm fan. Like him being in The Lost World, I think even like at first glance, his character is very different than the first time you saw him. I mean, he could basically be playing someone a whole different character. Alan Grant was the person like when I was a kid watching Jurassic Park, I wanted to be Alan Grant. So him being back at JP3, I think it's great. I mean, I think he's I always try to imagine like if Alan Grant was in The Lost World, would I have enjoyed it more? And the answer is yes, 100%. There's something about Sam Neil's presence on screen.

SPEAKER_08 2:26:32

I think with Jurassic Park 3, Sam Neil feels more comfortable as the character this time around. I mean, mainly probably because he's done it before. But I think also he understands the comedy of the situation as well, and Sam Neil is really good at comedy and the kind of lovable grumpiness that he has throughout throughout the film. What what's your thoughts on on Willie M. Mason? Of course you got to and and you you got to interview him.

SPEAKER_00 2:26:57

I was very lucky that I was able to track him down, um, which is it was incredible. I mean, that was I didn't expect that. I assumed he would say no. And I assumed that when I spoke to him, he wouldn't be like happy about it for some reason, but he was very energetic, positive. Um if he doesn't like the film, he didn't convey that at all. Everything was, you know, positive. Even like the negatives that he talked about with making the movie, like to him, like the way he spoke about it was like, you know, it's 20 years ago, I was younger. Um, I said some things that, you know, weren't the most positive, but it's like he's grown as a person.

SPEAKER_08 2:27:34

Yeah, what is that quote that he says? Because I've I've I didn't know until I listened to your podcast, I didn't know of the context of it. But he said some rather unsavory things before the film was before filming had begun.

SPEAKER_00 2:27:47

It was during filming. Right, if I'm recalling correctly. Because I I also interviewed Dan from Dan's JP3 page.

SPEAKER_07 2:27:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:27:54

Um, who kind of reported the quote initially. It was something like I I'm I'm not gonna butcher this quote, but it was something along the lines of feeling like the the movie there not being a captain or someone should be shot for some someone should be shot.

SPEAKER_08 2:28:07

I th that that's the standout bit, isn't it, really?

SPEAKER_00 2:28:09

So when I talked to Dan, I remember him saying that there was a report of when they were filming on the river, they had a boat with the camera equipment on it, and the boat like tipped over and the camera equipment fell in the water, and William H. Macy kind of like vented his frustrations um publicly about feeling like the whole situation was kind of getting out of hand with the filmmaking, and he was very vocal about it. I mean, there's always trouble with movies, right? There's always some like production issues, but it's rare that you hear from the star of the movie before the movies come out, yeah. You know what I mean? Like and hear them like saying how it feels like a disaster. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, he didn't like deny that he said it when I talked to him. He he was just very open, like, yeah, I said it. I shouldn't, you know, it was a different time, even though he still feels it was true. He made that clear, like, it's true, but you know, probably shouldn't have said it. But I mean, Joe Johnson himself, like, they were because I had the newspaper newspaper clipping taped to my wall as a kid. Anything Jurassic Park 3 I saved. And it was an interview with Joe Johnson who was saying that he had spoken to his manager agent asking, like, hey, if I quit this movie now, what would happen? And this was in an interview before the movie was released. That's also pretty rare.

SPEAKER_06 2:29:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:29:24

You can tell Joe Johnson like cared about the movie, the franchise. Um, he's proud of what he did from everything I've read. But he's also very open about like this was kind of a bad experience occasionally. I mean, what could be more stressful? Making you're making a third movie in a very successful franchise, there's no finished script, you know, you're showing up every day having to like make up dialogue or what we're gonna shoot. I mean, that's a worst-case scenario.

SPEAKER_08 2:29:51

Yeah. And so just before filming kind of started, a bit like Spielberg did with Jurassic Park, but for very different reasons, he shut down the production.

SPEAKER_00 2:29:59

Right, yeah. I think it was those when Alexander Payne and um Jim Taylor came on board to re rewrite Peter Buckman's script and to kind of simplify it into the simple rescue mission that we know. Because there's a script I've read this from like September 1st, 2000, and it's pretty close to the JP3 we know, except for like the ending is a little bit different. It seemed like they always struggled with how to end the movie, but um yeah, I mean, I think I would guess mid-July and August, from what I can tell, was like when the production was kind of like paused. And I'm sure it was kind of like what are we doing? You know, and everything was kind of like stopped except for I mean, I know like the aviary sequence was always going to be they knew that would be in the movie, so yeah.

SPEAKER_08 2:30:37

And that was something that Spielberg wanted in the film originally.

SPEAKER_00 2:30:40

Yeah, so I mean that was I'm sure that's the one thing they could keep like working on and building. Um, but for the most part, I as far as I know, like a lot of things were kind of you know paused.

SPEAKER_08 2:30:49

I haven't talked to Joe Johnson yet, so I don't I feel like he's the one person that would know it'd be interesting to hear from Alexander Payne and uh Jim Taylor as well, at that point of their career being asked to come and in all intents and purposes save a huge blockbuster film just before it's about to start filming.

SPEAKER_00 2:31:05

Yeah, I know. Alexander Payne, I've reached out to him and written letters. He actually spoke at a local like art theater. I bought a ticket for it. He had was doing a QA after it. But my son, he was about a year and a half at the time, uh less than that. And my wife was working. Uh my mom was gonna watch him, but then she couldn't. And I was like, okay, I got my son. I'll just go and watch the Q QA and hope that my son like behaves. They were playing the movie Election. Me and my son stayed in the in the in the hallway, and then once the movie ended, we walked in, and there was a line of people asking QA questions. And I was standing in the line, I'm like, I just want to ask him about Jurassic Park 3. Like any question, I I had like a list um from my son. And once I was getting closer, he wasn't he was getting grumpy and not cooperating. I'm like, I can't be that guy with a kid. So I I left, but I was like, man, that was that's probably the closest I'll get to Alexander Payne to asking that question. I keep reaching out, but like I'm I'd be fascinated by what he has to say about his time on the film. He's a great writer, um, great director.

SPEAKER_08 2:32:08

And yeah, and I mean I love I I remember watching like about Schmidt that came out like a little while after that with Jack Nicholson. And I the only reason I watched that is because I knew that the name uh that they were attached to that because of Jurassic Park 3. Oh, really? It's such a funny film. And of course, now the holdovers that's a great movie. That's you know, it's gonna be always on at Christmas for me. You know, I think that's what they managed to add to Jurassic Park 3, just a bit of just a bit of lightness, a bit of humor, a bit of knowing that this is the third film in a franchise.

SPEAKER_00 2:32:37

I mean, them getting you know Jim Taylor, Alexander Payne, and saying you have like six weeks to save the movie. I mean, they they must have known clearly that William H. Macy was a big star of the movie. Yes. I feel like they took his character kind of like from the movie Fargo. William H. Macy is amazing in Fargo. And it's very the character is kind of like in a similar like world as far as like car salesman kind of guy, you know, a regular guy that's kind of like a doofus a little bit, like goofy, just and they put him in a Jurassic Park movie. Um I don't think you know Payne and Jim Taylor were on board during filming. Um as far as now, Peter Buckman came back. Um, and I know John August also came on board for a little bit, but I don't think those two writers were involved, and I wish kind of wish they would have been, because yeah, I know they were making up dialogue, you know, on the day, like these conversations about tow truck drivers and um that kind of you know fishing and stuff like that. Like there there could have been more. That's like the one thing with JP3. I wish I wish there was more time like them to talk and just like take a break and talk more, like add something more to the character a little bit than what there is. And one of the scripts, the September 2000 scripts, I think, which is close to the final film, I feel like the character Eric tells his mom something like Ben got hurt, like mentions at least that Ben Hildebrand is dead. And I the line always sticks with me because like feels very natural and innocent innocent, where it's like. Like you know, he got hurt. And it's like, yeah, Eric's a kid, he's been on an island for two months, traumatized. The one adult that he had died in a tree. And it's like, of course, of course that would mess you up. Like I wish there was more to that, but like they just didn't have time to kind of like cut it all out, and which is it's a bummer because JP3 had room to really grow.

SPEAKER_08 2:34:20

So with Jurassic Park 3, that's the bits that we didn't get. I think there's so much to love about JP3. Starting, I think, with that you know amazing plane crash.

SPEAKER_00 2:34:28

Yeah, I mean the plane crash. I mean, right when the when they land on the island, I mean, within a minute it's like it's just chaos, right? Um, plane crashes, falling out of the tree, spino killing people, and they do a great job of just like getting into the action, which is not what we're kind of used to with the first two movies, where they kind of pace it out nice and slow. Um, but it it does make sense with the when you don't have much of a script. It's like, well, we know the plane crash needs to happen, you know, so it's like yeah, we'll extend that action. Don't need too much dialogue. Um but it does work pretty well. I mean, the crash, it like you know, leads right into the spino T-Rex fight, and that leads right into uh the Kirby's revealing who they are. Yeah. The plane crash, I really do. I've learned to appreciate it more than just a plane crash. Like you've seen the behind-the-scenes pictures and read stories about like it's just it's very well done. I love the editing.

SPEAKER_08 2:35:21

Because that's all that's all real, isn't it? That's that's a that's a real model. Yeah, which feels exactly like Joe Johnson was doing on Star Wars.

SPEAKER_00 2:35:28

Yeah, I mean, he knows what he's doing, and you know, between uh Stan Winston and like I mean and the crews, I mean the the modeling of this movie, I would never have known the plane, you know, was a model. But you see the pictures where they're like the multiple-sized planes, right? The miniature, there's a bigger one, there's one that's in a tree that's permanently in the tree, and like kind of rotates back and forth. I mean, it's very impressive work. You know, when I first saw the movie as a kid where I wasn't like overly in love with it to now I you know love the movie. But I've learned like what goes into filmmaking, I get it. Like what we're watching on screen, um, you know, CGI has taken over quite a bit, and this was still a lot of CGI in this movie, but also a lot of you know practical effects, and that stuff I appreciate. You know, if you see a practical effect or like models and miniature buildings and sets, it's like it's impressive now. And it's like yeah, I get it because it looks more real.

SPEAKER_08 2:36:20

It's it's a it's a fun opening. And then did you ever get the controversy between the T-Rex and the Spino fight?

SPEAKER_00 2:36:26

Not really. I mean, it's funny, like it's always if you go on Twitter, Instagram, like there's there's so many different like memes or people like I don't know. I mean, I never thought much about it. No. I mean, I like the T-Rex, but it didn't mean anything to me like compared to the characters. So seeing the T-Rex die, like I get it now, as in like that was a a big deal for the franchise because they wouldn't do that in a Jurassic World movie, right? T-Rex was the hero. Um, so it's like I have a lot of respect for JP3 to change it up and not just be like, Yeah, I mean they could have ignored the T-Rex completely, just not put it on screen.

SPEAKER_08 2:37:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:37:03

And just have the spino, but like, no, we're gonna kill it.

SPEAKER_08 2:37:06

And then to have a an editing gag of when the Spinosaurus moves its head and then it cuts to Grant having just punched Paul Kirby in the face. I think that's where you can see like Joe Johnson really shine in those moments, because that's their his his vision for how this film is gonna be.

SPEAKER_00 2:37:21

What's funny about that is to me, like as a kid, even after I had seen it like many times, it goes from like the T-Rex like falls, yeah, and then Kirby gets punched. But it's kind of like you hear the sound and she's like falling back like that, and then Mrs. Kirby's like, Hey, wait, wait, no, no, please don't. Wait. As a kid, for some reason, I always thought she was talking to the spino with the T-Rex, like, oh come on, please don't like don't fight, that kind of thing. Um I think that's there too. Even when Grant gets knocked out on the plane, yes, um, by Cooper, you don't see it, it's just like the his eyes close, like the the shot on Kirby and like it fades to black. And Kirby's reaction, the ooh, and it it's it's weird, it's funny, but it's like it's a very unique way of shooting it because it would never cross my mind to be like, are we gonna shoot it? But keep it on uh Paul Kirby, have him make a face and like have it fade to black. Like it's it there's some unique filmmaking decision that very much much make it like a Joe Johnston movie. Um that I don't think everyone would pick up on, but like it's subtle comedy that's there.

SPEAKER_08 2:38:28

It's different because it's a very different thing to see Cooper come up and elbow him in the back of the head. That's that's a very different thing. It's more fitting to the kind of amblin' sort of world that you know Spielberg created.

SPEAKER_00 2:38:41

It's grown on me quite a bit.

SPEAKER_08 2:38:42

Yeah. And so after all this, they go back to the crash site, then they find Ben's skeleton um in the parachute. Um and yeah, I love the raptor eggs and the nest sequence. It's just so much fun, that bit and kind of Grant's reaction to it all.

SPEAKER_00 2:38:57

Yeah, one of my favorite shots that you know, Grant like popping up, like rising into the shot, and like you know he's afraid. Yeah, like our hero is afraid, and like, oh, it's just like getting serious now. It's like, yeah, one of my favorite parts of the movie. Plus, it really well, I think to me, they did a good job most of the time of um filming on location in a jungle, then going to a set jungle. And like in that scene, it matches pretty well. It's very convincing. I mean, at least when I was a 13-year-old, I assumed everything was in the jungle. You know, it's like as you're older, you catch some things, and it's like, oh, okay, probably a set, but for the most part, sometimes it's flawless. It's very well done.

SPEAKER_08 2:39:34

I remember actually that scene as a 13-year-old boy watching it, and the audience in the cinema, when it pans the different eggs, it had a reaction on the audience I was seeing it with. Oh, really? They were all that's pretty cool. Yeah, they're all oohs and ahs of like because they understood what that was and what that meant because of what they'd seen in Jurassic Park and The Lost World. So that was it had the desired effect.

SPEAKER_00 2:39:56

I mean, that's when audiences knew that raptors were scary, right? Yeah. They were the bad guys. So it's like we've kind of been uh reconditioned to know that raptors are they're friendly. They're our blue's our buddy. It's yeah, a lot has changed in the past 20 years.

SPEAKER_08 2:40:11

And then that leads to the my favorite set of the whole thing, which is the abandoned genetics lab. And I I wish we had more time here.

SPEAKER_00 2:40:19

Yeah, a lot of potential too. I mean, this is where they could have been going through different rooms or learning about what InGen was doing or still doing, like that would have been pretty fantastic. I mean, there's a lot of potential. They could have stumbled upon you know somebody else that had been left behind by InGen, you know, some worker. Who knows? Like there you could go like 10 different directions if you had more time to like really plan it out what they would find in the lab, because it's the most interesting part.

SPEAKER_08 2:40:44

Definitely.

SPEAKER_00 2:40:44

I mean, there's like that mystery of what's going on in the island. They don't really fully answer. Like the spino wasn't on the list. No. Okay, we we don't learn why or what's going on. It's like as a viewer, we can think about it. And this was like this would have been the one chance to really get into it and answer those questions. But even as it is, like, yeah, it's a lot of fun. I love abandoned buildings and movies um that's out of Jurassic Park movies. I wish like even Jurassic World going back to the visitor center in Jurassic World, like I wanted a whole movie like that.

SPEAKER_08 2:41:14

Definitely. And I just love that the fact of the raptors, you know, running through these corridors, and actually throughout the whole film, just how alive the dinosaurs feel. The blending of the ILM dinosaurs and Stan Winston's ones, it it's for me, it's seamless how it how they go from each other. It's more so than the previous films. I think. I think this one they're really working in tandem.

SPEAKER_00 2:41:40

Yeah, I mean the JP3 still holds up in quite a few areas, and one of them is going from CGI Raptors to animatronics to people in suits, like wearing their raptor outfits. I mean, I mean you're going from like a shot that has CGI and animatronics or a person in a suit, and it's very convincing. Yeah. Like they knew what they were doing, and that's the one thing like Jurassic World mostly, you know, stood out to me was the Raptor just looked different and not in a good way. There was something that was done differently, it looked different, it doesn't hold up. But JP3 from you know 24 years ago, the the Raptors are beautiful, like very well done.

SPEAKER_08 2:42:22

Such a shame because there's a clear evolution between Jurassic Park and Jurassic Park 3 where those teams, you know, they invented this technology back then or this partnership in Jurassic Park. And then by the time they get to Jurassic Park 3, it feels like the relationship's really strong. So it's such a shame that you know Stan Winston wasn't around and the studio wasn't really, you know, CGI had taken over so much by that point that to kind of go and do it the practical way would have cost them a lot more money. That seems to be the reason why they didn't go down the practical route for Jurassic World, was the money involved. And you and then you get the Tranodons and the Avery sequence, which is probably for me the standout section of this film. It feels the one that's the most put together. That I think the production design again is a is amazing.

SPEAKER_00 2:43:08

Yeah, I mean, from you know what I've seen and from talking to some of the the crew in the cast, I mean and you can find pictures on various Jurassic Park fan sites or on Instagram of like the way they built the canyon at the studio. I mean like physically built canyon walls, um, which is pretty impressive. And I mean adding the CGI to it, I don't know. I mean, to yeah, I agree, it's very impressive. It's the standout part of the movie. I mean it goes up with their it's up there with any like the T-Rex breakout in Jurassic Park 1. Like to me, it's that it's so well done, beginning to end, and visually, everything like this is the reason to make Jurassic Park 3, right? The reason to keep like no matter all the challenges, like the aviary sequence we have to bring it to the screen because everything is so well done. The suspense, like the lead up to it to Grant realizing they're in a birdcage. I mean, that's there's not many like better moments in the franchise where like a character realizes they're in like serious trouble. That's like as a viewer what we want in the suspense and the music, um, the sound, the sound design of that whole sequence, the flapping and like the the rattling, the catwalk and the metal shaking. Yeah. Everything comes together in that. The behind the scenes, everything I've seen, it's like it's impressive, but it doesn't it doesn't look like the final product. The final product, like once you add in the CGI or more fog and the darkness, like it takes in a whole new life. I would love to if I could go back in time and walk that set. Because I mean the scale of it is just impressive. And it's impressive that out of what they built, they could make a whole sequence. I mean, yeah, they add in like I'm sure a lot of blue screen stuff and CGI, but it's very, very convincing that it takes place over, you know, a good amount of space in this this canyon.

SPEAKER_08 2:44:54

Yeah, it feels like a real location.

SPEAKER_00 2:44:56

Yeah. And it's the fact that it goes from, you know, the top of the canyon, walking down the steps, the catwalk, you know, between Billy and Eric flying around, then falling into the water, everyone falling into the water. I mean, it's just like they make great use of the canyon of the space, going from top to bottom.

SPEAKER_06 2:45:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:45:14

It's one of the things that frustrate has frustrated me about Jurassic World is that there doesn't appear to be like an attempt to top this. In all three movies, I'm like, there's nothing that really comes close to it. And I think you know, the first movie, uh, the breakout, the T-Rex, it's great. Um, Lost World, the the trailer over the cliff is incredible. Three is Aviary sequence. Nothing in my mind ever came close to the Aviary sequence. I don't know why. I don't know what could possibly, but having like a sequence, like it's like a clearly defined part of the movie that it's like this is what we're focusing on for eight minutes, right?

SPEAKER_08 2:45:54

Yeah, and and you've got Billy that dies, you know, essentially in this what what's the reason do you think that he came back at the end? Because he f it feels like a very definitive death.

SPEAKER_00 2:46:04

Oh yeah, he's dead. Oh you you could not kill that guy more. I mean, Billy was he was a goner, right? I mean, as a viewer, yeah, Billy coming back is pretty shocking to the point where he's still able to talk. It's kind of like Yeah. Whoa, I thought you were getting like stabbed and drowned. I mean, he's just got a few bandages. That's all I know. It's like that strong desire to have like that Spielberg happy ending.

SPEAKER_06 2:46:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:46:27

I don't know. I wonder if they if they shot multiple versions where Billy stayed dead. Because it it wouldn't take much to just like cut him out of that scene, right?

SPEAKER_08 2:46:35

No.

SPEAKER_00 2:46:36

You know, which is like he appears, they talk, he's got the hat. I guess the hat might be the one thing.

SPEAKER_08 2:46:41

He's got the hat, yeah, which is the which is the big thing.

SPEAKER_00 2:46:43

Yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_08 2:46:44

I mean I maybe he could have written a note which said, I sorry for the eggs, but I've saved your hat.

SPEAKER_00 2:46:49

Or the the military found the hat, yeah. I mean, yeah. I don't know. It is weird that he stayed alive. I assume they shot multiple ways, and maybe some kind of like studio test audience or executives said you can't kill off Billy. If we make a fourth movie, like he's the the younger generation.

SPEAKER_08 2:47:07

Although I don't think he wanted to be in the in a fourth one.

SPEAKER_00 2:47:10

It didn't sound like it, but I mean I'm sure you've seen like the pictures from the the video game that was cancelled where it's like Billy with the Raptor. I mean, I don't know why he's I mean, I I like that he's alive because I always wanted him to be in the next movie. You know, I like Billy, but on screen he should have died.

SPEAKER_08 2:47:26

We get the river sequence, which is sort of their way of putting the lagoon bit from the book in, um, but not quite. I think the strongest parts of this film are the obviously the bits that they worked on the most while the script was being, you know, tossed from pillar to post and all different writers coming on board, Stan Winston and the storyboard artists and everybody, you know, they were working hard. It's interesting the cutting between Barney.

SPEAKER_00 2:47:51

Oh, I d I don't like it. I mean it's I get the comedy of it, but it's right up there with like in The Lost World, the trailer over the cliff scene is nearly perfect. And there's that one line about Apple turnovers from McDonald's or something.

SPEAKER_06 2:48:06

Oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:48:06

And I'm like, I really hate that line. I don't know why, it's just more like I want to be scared for these characters, I don't want them making jokes about ordering fast food. Like I don't I don't want to be taken out of the scene. And when you watch JP3 with Barney, that's the best way to take somebody out is to not only make like intercut with comedy, but a real life character that we all know, and we all have our thoughts on Barney. And as a 13-year-old, Barney's not cool, right? No, at least it wasn't to me. So I mean when you cut back and forth, it's like, oh, this is it just felt weird. It still feels weird. I get the comedy of it, and I mean I'm curious, like, I still don't know who put that into the script exactly, or if it was added later. If I would go back in time and they're editing the movie, I would say, Hey, you don't need to show so much Barney. Maybe cut it back or skip it. And I'm sure at the idea, it was probably very simple. Like, Charlie's watching TV, and maybe on the day they go to film, they're like, Hey, what if we uh what if he's watching Barney? And like, yeah, I could see that being funny, but it's very much like a focus. Like you yeah you see it's Barney, and it's like, okay, I get what they're doing. Lovable dinosaur, oh, they're getting killed by a dinosaur. I don't know. It's it's it's not the best moment. How about that?

SPEAKER_08 2:49:26

No.

SPEAKER_00 2:49:26

But besides that, it's all pretty great.

SPEAKER_08 2:49:28

It's it's great, yeah. And I do love the raptor sequence, which seems to be present in quite a few of the scripts, but this is the end of the film. This is this is the climax. This is the equivalent of the T-Rex coming into the visitor center.

SPEAKER_00 2:49:41

I didn't know it was supposed to. Like I didn't know this is the big showdown, like at the end, like the raptor, the egg handoff. Like, and I mean, still watching it to this day, it's like you know there needs to be this is like the they hand the eggs back, it should be a nice pause, everything's good. Oh, there's somebody on the beach, the military's here. Okay. But now things should go wrong again. Like there needs to be that. Like, I didn't yeah, you don't feel like the the egg handoff is what the movie's leading to, even though like it makes sense. And I know some of the scripts I think it happens more like in the middle of the movie. Um, but I mean visually it's beautiful. I like that you know Amanda Kirby takes charge, like to hand the egg back, like she wants to be the leader. I think that's great. And I think it's also like symbolic, you know, with the egg and the mom raptor and the mother losing her son, like yeah, and she gets her moment in in in the film. Yeah, so it all makes sense, and I think it's it's great, but it's funny because it's like I almost like devalue it because it's supposed to be a bigger moment than it feels as a viewer. Like because I know they're not gonna hurt our main characters at that point.

SPEAKER_08 2:50:46

Yeah, so the film came out um summer 2001, and what was the sort of reaction that it had?

SPEAKER_00 2:50:52

Yeah, I mean I think critics were kind of mixed on it. I know I've read some reviews where it was kind of like it's a nice change of pace from the previous two where the two felt like longer than they should have been. Um where I think most people didn't love it. And I think fans too, I mean, including myself at first. You know, it didn't make as much as the other two films, but you know, it had a lot of competition for one.

SPEAKER_06 2:51:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:51:16

Not not to mention it was also a third movie. But I mean it had week after week, at the following week was I think Planet of the Apes, and then it Rush Hour Two, then American Pie 2. Um it was some heavy competition.

SPEAKER_06 2:51:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:51:32

That um those movies were making money. I mean, I think Planet of the Apes made like almost 70 million opening weekend. It was 70 million, you know, 24 years ago.

SPEAKER_08 2:51:41

That's massive.

SPEAKER_00 2:51:42

It was pretty significant. And I think Rush Hour Two did like almost the same thing, and it's like you need to be a really great movie to survive that kind of competition. And Jurassic Park 3 definitely divided people. I know it still like divides fans to this day. People seem to enjoy it more, but at the time it was not looked upon as a an entry that was as good as the first two, or at least the first one. I mean, so it I'm glad that it's it's kind of come around to where people appreciate it more, but at the time not so much.

SPEAKER_08 2:52:18

No, I feel like I've spent most of my time defending Jurassic Park 3, and that seems to have changed in the past couple of years. Um people have finally come around to the joy of Jurassic Park 3. And another thing that I've always really liked about the film is the score, you know, because again, Don Davis had a lot of pressure on him to create a score out of John Williams's amazing score for the past two films.

SPEAKER_00 2:52:41

Yeah, I mean, I like it. I bought the soundtrack. I think well I probably got it as like a gift in 2001, probably for Christmas, but I mean I think it's great. I think it's very strong. Yeah, I mean, it's the same thing with somebody stepping in for Spielberg, you know, step in for John Williams. That's a lot of pressure and a lot of a lot you have to live up to. And I think using some of the the classic moments from John Williams, you know, previous scores, it works, but adding on to it, I mean the aviary sequence, like the music the reveal of the the Pteronadon, just like the music, it's just it sticks with me. I don't I think it's it's underappreciated, that's for sure. And that's another person I would love to talk to, Don Davis. I mean, I can't imagine what that's like stepping in for someone of you know like John Williams.

SPEAKER_08 2:53:26

And he was suggested, I think, by John Williams to take on the role.

SPEAKER_00 2:53:29

Oh, was he?

SPEAKER_08 2:53:30

But I listened to that CD hundred times. The Randy Newman track.

SPEAKER_00 2:53:33

As a kid, I always thought it's kind of funny, like so random to have the song from the bar on the soundtrack. I appreciate it now more. I think it's great. I love the song.

SPEAKER_08 2:53:42

It's the time of music on soundtracks, and they thought even Jurassic Park 3 has got to have at least one track.

SPEAKER_00 2:53:48

Yeah, plus I mean, the CD you could put into your computer drive and watch the trailer and some behind-the-scenes stuff. So as as a kid, it was I loved it. I mean, I still listen to the soundtrack, so yeah.

SPEAKER_08 2:54:00

I was wondering your podcast, Stuck on Sauna, what was the production history? Like, how long were you in production for making that series? You spoke to uh like it feels like hundreds of people.

SPEAKER_00 2:54:12

Quite a few, and some like didn't even make it into it um into the podcast where like I couldn't fit fit it into like the the conversation somehow. And hopefully I'll use it on you know new episodes. But yeah, I mean I started interviewing in 2018 and I talked to the editor, Robert Delva. And at first I I emailed him, he emailed back, and I was it was a struggle to get him to agree to a phone call. Like he just wanted to like email back and forth. I'm like very polite. And that was literally just like recording my phone on speaker phone is like 2018. I I wanted to do a Skype call at the time, but he was an older gentleman. Um, he's since passed away. The technology thing, like it just wasn't wasn't working. It's like if this was like 2020, you know, during COVID, everybody's using Zoom, that would be very different. But in 2018, we did the phone call. So interviewed him, reached out to a lot of people, but I mean, I think it was just tough to get started because I mean I didn't have anything to say or show anybody. So it really wasn't until probably like 2020, late 2020, where like I really had time to reach out to more people and I think more people had free time that they could, you know, agree to let me interview them. Yeah. In 2021, in July, I released the the first episode. And I really thought I would just be releasing an episode where like each episode would be like an interview with somebody, just like very basic, straightforward.

SPEAKER_06 2:55:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:55:32

But then people were talking about the same thing or you know, sharing the same stories about different parts of the film. So they're like editing it together that way. And I realized it'd be a bigger project than I expected. Yeah. My goal was something very simple, just really some interviews, and then I started editing them together, and it was just it kind of took over my life for a little bit, like after work and into the night. Um whereas like right now I'm I've been interviewing often on people for. Episodes I want to I'm going to release like next summer for the twenty fifth anniversary. And I'm trying to uh plan it out better so it's a little bit easier, but it all depends on who agrees to talk to me.

SPEAKER_08 2:56:12

It's fantastic. I think and I think these things are really important for getting particularly what you've done. Because that film uh didn't have the kind of love that Universal gave to Jurassic Park and The Lost World, there wasn't a making of book. I think yeah, what you've managed to do is capture a bit of production history. And you know, that's I think that's incredibly important because as you say, the editor's now passed away, and this is his uh you know contribution. His if you hadn't have reached out to him, we wouldn't have had that uh conversation with that you know person about his uh history of making that film.

SPEAKER_00 2:56:45

So yeah, I think it's it's an amazing listen and uh I appreciate the kind words and yeah, I I do wish uh there was more official JP3 love from uh Universal, but it definitely feels forgotten a little bit.

SPEAKER_08 2:56:58

Yeah, I'd just like to say thank you so much for joining me today. I think it's been really great, and I can't wait to hear what you've got coming for the 25th anniversary.

SPEAKER_00 2:57:07

Yeah, that's my goal. That's my goal. So we'll that's what I'm working towards, but we'll see. Yeah, hopefully I'll get some good people to be interviewed. But I mean it's uh still I'm constantly reaching out to people and hoping uh some of the bigger uh people in the production will respond, but we'll see. Fingers crossed. So I appreciate you listening and uh thank you for interviewing me and talking to me about JP3 because I love JP3 and Jurassic Park, and I'm glad you thought of me for this episode.

SPEAKER_08 2:57:36

My big thanks to Daniel for that conversation. He is just so knowledgeable and passionate about this film, and it really does come across in his Stuck on Sauna podcast. And I think it's a podcast that's not just for JP3 fans, I think it's a podcast for film fans. Go and follow him on Instagram at Stuck on Sauna. Up on this feed, I've got a bonus episode coming out this Friday as I take a break from looking at the films in the series. I'm just trying to simulate the agonizing weight between Jurassic Park 3 and Jurassic World, so bear with me. But I have got an amazing conversation to bring you. It's with Jurassic Franchise Ambassador Stephen Ray Morris of the C Jurassic Wright podcast. We cover our excitement for rebirth, we share our series rankings and hot takes, and also our prediction for wedding music a hundred years from now. Let's just say it's wide-ranging, and I had an absolute blast recording it. If you like what I'm doing here, then please share this podcast on social media using the hashtag road to rebirthpod and follow along on Instagram at road to rebirthpod. But until next time, I'll say thank you very much for listening and goodbye.

SPEAKER_11 2:58:52

When Jurassic World comes out with a fully functioning park with a wild hybrid dinosaur, and and the subsequent sequels, Fallen Kingdom with the volcano and dinosaurs in the wild with Dominion. This these are the stories that I told in my basement with my toys.

SPEAKER_08 2:59:09

Hello and welcome back to Road to Rebirth. My name's Rogan Squire. I hope you've enjoyed these past few episodes where we've dug into a little bit behind the scenes, maybe, or the animals of Jurassic Park. What I wanted to do was to try and recreate the agonizing weight for Jurassic World between Jurassic Park 3. So I hope you've enjoyed that, and it was slightly more enjoyable than it was for me during those years. Today I'm bringing you a fab interview with Brad Jost, host of the Jurassic Park podcast, which celebrates its 10th anniversary this year. He is such a fun and engaging character in the community, and he has so much love for this franchise, and he exudes all of that in this interview. So without further ado, let's get into Jurassic World from 2015. Please welcome to the podcast Brad Jost. Hi, Brad. Thank you so much for joining me today.

SPEAKER_11 3:00:08

Hey, thank you for having me. Uh, I know it's been a long time coming, and I'm excited to chat today. It's gonna be fun.

SPEAKER_08 3:00:14

Yeah. I'm gonna first off ask you about your excitement for rebirth. What scale are you on?

SPEAKER_11 3:00:20

I it's it's an interesting scale. I think uh I think I'm very hyped, obviously, very hyped for the movie. It it's it's been such a weird trajectory, I think, for this movie coming off of Jurassic World Dominion and just, you know, knowing that they'll continue the franchise in some way, but at that time, they're they're clearly telling you, this is it, this is the end, this is the last one we'll ever get, or whatever. That's kind of the vibe they were giving us. So I wasn't prepared for a new movie, like in it, like emotionally, like technically. I I had no, you know, I was no prepped, I was not prepped at all, ready for this movie. So then when they start to talk about, oh, there's gonna be a new one, it it all felt like very confusing. And um, at some times it felt like, oh, this is gonna be really rushed. I hope we can get this going right. Then you start to see the pieces of like who's involved, and then you get that confidence, right? So I've got that confidence with like the you know, David Cap really got confidence there. Gareth Edwards is one of my favorites these days. Uh so I've got a lot of confidence that. And obviously the the people that are in the movie too, like ton, uh tons of confidence with them. I think obviously, like canonically speaking is more so where my my questions lie and my yeah, my like less hype side. You know, it's it's kind of wondering, okay, well, I hope we get enough explanation for this. You know, I think we saw recently that the movie is going to be like what, two hours and 14 minutes or something like that. So plenty of time for a lot of exposition to give us a lot of information that we need, but I'm I'm just hoping that they do so and don't just skim over those canonical tidbits that that we all are questioning right now. I mean, maybe general audiences don't necessarily care. You know, when we see a different dinosaur design, we're like, why? Yeah. What's what's going on there? What's going on with this? What is this island in general? So there's a lot of questions, plus the whole mutant of it all. Like, there's a lot of things I need to uh have ironed out a little bit. But uh I I dig what they're doing. I think I'm really hyped about the uh marketing that they're doing right now. I've been saying this a lot recently that like it feels different than before. You know, before they wouldn't kind of go all out with these movies, and they are certainly there's a lot of stuff out there right now for this movie, but uh all we've gotten is the same few scenes over and over again. And I kind of appreciate that, at but at the same time, like I obviously want to see more. But for years now, I've been saying, stop showing us everything. And they're they're doing it now, and I'm I'm also like clamoring for the other side again. So, but I think they're doing a good job, they're they're getting us hyped, they're keeping us like in check with uh everything that they're showing us so far, and uh I I think it's gonna be good. I'm I'm really excited.

SPEAKER_08 3:03:02

Yeah, no, I I think you you covered off exactly how I'm feeling about this. Um yeah. How how does it stack up to maybe your excitement for Jurassic World, say 10 years ago?

SPEAKER_11 3:03:15

Yeah, I mean, look, completely different experience altogether. I mean, that was like 14 years or whatever of nothing and just thinking about what that movie is gonna be, going through just years and years of that, and then the hype level was was wild. I mean, that was that was at a time where like oh we're gonna have new Star Wars, we're gonna have new Jurassic. Yeah, Marvel's like doing its thing at its height and stuff, and it was very exciting to have Jurassic come back into the fold, you know, after after so many years away. Yeah, it was huge. I mean, you can't really compare to now because now we've we're we're on our fourth, you know, installment now of the Jurassic World saga, and the excitement is obviously there, but it's just like it's hard to compare those two moments, you know, when you had nothing, and then all of a sudden now we've got everything we need. We've got all the toys, we've got all the merchandise. I've got no more room for any more merchandise or toys. Like, so it's a completely different uh experience these days.

SPEAKER_08 3:04:14

It's amazing what 10 years can do, and a you know, billion-dollar franchise suddenly being part of it.

SPEAKER_11 3:04:20

Yeah, yeah. And they've they've been treating it pretty well, I think. Uh obviously, like I think along the way, I would have liked to have seen things done differently here or there with other material and and and maybe the movies or TV shows and things like that. But I think what we have gotten it are are things that I'm really uh appreciative of. So I really like all those things.

SPEAKER_08 3:04:42

Nice. So talking about Jurassic World today, and I was wondering whether you could kick us off with a synopsis for the film.

SPEAKER_11 3:04:49

All right. So let me just wing it here. Um, so Jurassic World, it's uh a park that's been in operation for 10 years. And uh, you know, if you if you head into the uh offices of Jurassic World, you'd find that people aren't uh coming to the parks, they aren't excited for the way uh they're presenting their dinosaurs these days. So what does Jurassic World need to do? They need to reinvent the wheel a little bit and they need to put hybrids out there, something that that will get people very excited about dinosaurs again, something bigger, scarier with more teeth. And uh, of course, along the way, we we meet a few different characters and some family members pop up from time to time. But overall, it's it's literally just hey, how are we gonna deal with the dawn of hybrid dinosaurs and the problems that that creates for the park workers, for the park itself, for the guests. And uh, we ultimately see the downfall of an iconic park that we've been waiting for for so long, and uh it's a sad, sad day. But uh yeah, it I would say that's a decent enough premise. It's not the entire thing.

SPEAKER_08 3:05:57

That's nice. No, really good. I really enjoyed that. Um, what were your so Jurassic Part three, 2000? How old were you when to um in 2001 Jurassic Part 3?

SPEAKER_11 3:06:08

Uh uh, you know, I was uh I was in high school, so I was probably like 15, 16, okay. Something like that, I think. Yes, the same age. Somewhere in there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 3:06:17

How how was it after that film? And kind of did you anticipate that the next one wouldn't be 14 years away?

SPEAKER_11 3:06:23

Well, yeah, I mean, like when that movie came out, I was still, I think, you know, in my in my prime like Jurassic hype years, you know, after the Jurassic Park and The Lost World, my you know, talk about hype level was was wild for for Jurassic Park 3. And then it started to dwindle a little bit as I saw like some of the marketing and stuff like that. And then when I saw the movie, I that's that is unfortunately the first movie I remember really, really sitting in the theater for uh Jurassic Wise. Um, so uh and I I had a tough time with that one. So knowing that the reception was a little bit different than the other movies and that it didn't really make as much money, it was it was bound to be like kind of a slow period, I think, for a return to Jurassic, but I never expected them to take that long. Um I don't think anybody really did. It just we all we all follow the news cycles, we all checked in.

SPEAKER_08 3:07:18

And that was like constantly checking.

SPEAKER_11 3:07:20

Yeah, that was like the dawn of like movie news on the internet, I feel like, where we're all really like we're just introduced to different new websites. Like we we had never visited these sites, so we're like, okay, this is gonna be my go-to website for checking movie news. And I I did that with a a bunch of them. I think there was like uh like coming soon.net or something, and like darkness.

SPEAKER_08 3:07:44

Just popped into my head when you were saying that.

SPEAKER_11 3:07:46

Yeah. Joe Blow. Uh, so there was a lot of different like movie sites back then that I frequented, and uh yeah, I was just checking those for ages, just wondering like when's it gonna come next? But 14 years later was not on my radar. That was that's that's crazy.

SPEAKER_08 3:08:02

Yeah, I remember the rumor that Kira Knightley was gonna be in it for a time, and she was gonna be John Hammond's granddaughter. I don't know whether it's gonna be Lex at some point that she was gonna play. I've been kind of delving back at using um the Internet Archive, diving into those old pages just to see what those rumors were like, reminiscing and feeling the stress of Jurassic Park 4 and the wait for it all over again. Um Yeah.

SPEAKER_11 3:08:28

I was thinking about doing that recently too. Um, and one thing dawned on me, like I I completely forgot that like well, and then I don't remember the the year or whatever it was, but like when Michael Crichton died, I feel like that was like that was like uh there was like a finality to it, and they the way that they spoke about it was like, I don't think we're gonna be doing it anymore. You know, because we had been following it for years, like waiting and just waiting and waiting. And there'd been news tidbits here and there that like the cast members or you know, oh, they're talking about maybe returning or or whoever, and uh they're they're working on something. Joe Johnson's doing something, or you know, so the people were actually doing stuff, but then when that happened, it was like, oh man, I think I think this is over. Like, I don't know if we're gonna get anything else. Because there is some finality finality to that, and you think you think about like, okay, well, should we continue uh this story with without the person who you know was the person who created the entire concept of it all? And I know the movies are different, but like, and of course Jurassic Park 3 not really involved in any of of that for for the most part, you know, but uh it felt weird to continue, and I think that's what they were feeling when they were uh trying to come up with stories and and ideas. So that was a weird time, I think, for sure.

SPEAKER_08 3:09:45

Yeah, and Stan Winston dying as well, roughly around the same time. And I think Kathleen Kennedy came out and said, look, I think they'd been bugged so much for news over the past years that they were just like, Look, just leave it alone. And then I think Spielberg's at Comic Con and he's just like, Yeah, we've got a script, it's all working, and haven't forgotten it.

SPEAKER_11 3:10:06

Yeah, complete shell shock when uh when you find out that oh, they are gonna be doing something. And and that was you know, that I think Jurassic World, when when that movie eventually did come around, um, in the years leading up to it, and however much that changed along the way, we were it kind of reinvigorated everything. Everybody got excited again, and uh I mean that started up my fandom again because like I said, Jurassic Park 3 soured things a little bit for me. Um I really do appreciate that movie's uh that movie these days, but um I think during that time there was there were other stories being told. Lord of the Rings was uh was huge for me. I yeah, you know, I so I I started to get into other film franchises and different things. And you know, even even then Marvel coming in uh 20 yeah 2008. So there was a lot of different projects to get excited about um in those dark years. So yeah, yeah, I was okay for a little while, but then Jurassic World comes around and you're like, oh, all right, we're back in this. This could be good again. What are we doing? Uh all right, now now you gotta start talking about it with with new people that you've never met before. It's awesome. It really started something.

SPEAKER_08 3:11:13

And it seemed that uh uh Spielberg finally landed upon because he had the John Sayles script. I'm not sure whether you've ever have you ever read that.

SPEAKER_11 3:11:20

Yeah, it's been a few years and it was a wild read. Absolutely a wild read. Yeah, and I do think back to that like every now and then when especially you know, doing a podcast and and uh when you have to do a podcast for uh all year long uh leading up to a movie, you start to dive into a lot of those weird things that were in random scripts and stuff like that in concept art. So that was one that I just I remember diving into quite a bit, even even more recently. I think that I think that one started off I don't know if it was the beginning, I think it was the beginning, but there was like a baseball or t-ball sequence, I think, in that story. Yeah, where like pteranodons or something had uh come and attacked the game. And I'm I I thought about for years how like excellent of an opening sequence that would be. And even to the point where Jurassic World, uh, I don't think I've talked about it too much for rebirth, but for Dominion, it was like, oh, this would be the perfect introduction to Dominion. Like Dinosaurs are in the wild now, officially, like, yeah, pteranodons were out for a little while, but like now they're out there and they can attack like uh a little T ball game. It would have been a brutal kind of introduction. Maybe maybe none of the kids had to get hurt or anything, but like it would have been uh really cool. Not not a lot of the rest of that, but uh but that sequence for sure.

SPEAKER_08 3:12:38

Yeah, yeah. The rest of it would have been very different. But yeah, yeah, I mean, that script had human dinosaur hybrids and all sorts of stuff going on. Spielberg definitely likes to push the science fiction side of it, I think.

SPEAKER_11 3:12:52

Yeah, that's and and I'm okay with it because look, it's Steven Spielberg, let him do what he wants to do, let him cook, you know. Um, you know, he's been at the forefront of this. Um, you know, with the hybrids and everything. And then when you start to hear that he's working directly with uh David Kepp, it's like, okay, I know who's who's in charge of uh of all the mutant stuff that we're seeing nowadays. It's like he's he just wants to get to these concepts, and I'm cool with it. So like I feel like I hear a lot of people be like, Oh, that's not very Jurassic, and I'm like, but it is. It's like yeah, it's at the heart of it, you know. And uh I appreciate Steven Spielberg for sticking to his guns and doing what he's wanted to do for a while.

SPEAKER_08 3:13:29

Yeah. And I've I've said this several times on the show before, but he like Jurassic has a very special place in his heart because I think it's his. You know, George Lucas gave him Indiana Jones. It was, you know, George Lucas who came came up with the idea and brought it to Spielberg. And obviously Spielberg, you know, had added so much to that, but Jurassic is something that he worked with Michael Crichton on, and so that I think he just loves it so much it's his it's his baby.

SPEAKER_11 3:13:56

I hope so. I mean, it it seems like he loves it. I mean, it's it's he's he's a tough one to read because he is involved in so many things. The executive produces like almost everything. It seems like you know, his name's attached to something. And I I've heard, you know, I've heard people say, like, oh, look, his name's attached to this or that, and they're losing confidence in Steven Spielberg. I'm like, what? Are you are you serious? Like, yeah, okay, like some things didn't pan out, but like, let's not lose confidence in that. So no, I have full confidence in in him and David Kepp at this point.

SPEAKER_08 3:14:29

So and I think with Jurassic World, he found Rick Jaffa and Amanda Silver, who were the first people to really crack that script for Jurassic World, who've just done the Planet of the Apes reboot, I think, just maybe a year or so before.

SPEAKER_11 3:14:43

Oh, is that what is that what it was? Yeah, okay. And uh it uh yeah, it kind of has that DNA to it, right? I mean, we've we've kind of talked about that for a while, how like in the later installments of Jurassic World, it would be so close. We could almost do what Planet of the Apes was doing, but it's like it feels like two on a nose, and we we j literally just got that. We can't really do the exact same thing. Who knows? Maybe we are still. I don't know, maybe we still be doing it.

SPEAKER_08 3:15:09

But yeah, clearly Spielberg came with the idea, which I think he did with um Jurassic Part 3, and so he comes up with core bits that he wants to be in the a Jurassic film. So he wanted a fully functioning park, he wanted a genetically modified dinosaur, and also the w the weaponization of the raptors. That seemed to be his three ingredients that he gave to the writers and be like, go and do go go go and do that.

SPEAKER_11 3:15:32

And those are perfect ingredients, like that's those are the things I really like about the movie, and I know not it's not everybody's cup of tea with the weaponized dinosaurs of it all, but like I really do like what they were going for there. While maybe it wouldn't have made a ton of like legitimate sense, sometimes uh people in power don't make a lot of sense, you know? That happens often.

SPEAKER_08 3:15:53

Yeah, I really like that element actually of it. And since watching it again, I mean what was your so sitting down in a cinema, 2015, and watching this for the first time, what are your memories of the first watch?

SPEAKER_11 3:16:05

Okay, well, that was a a pretty significant one for me because um, you know, I had started the podcast like a little a little bit before that, and it just so happened that um I was getting married that same weekend.

SPEAKER_06 3:16:19

Wow.

SPEAKER_11 3:16:19

We had booked like a wedding venue in Pennsylvania, and it was um up in like the mountains and stuff, and we we had there was like little cabins and things on the property. So we were staying up there for several days. While we were up there, like some family members obviously came up, like my cousin was there and my sister was there. We all went out there to the movie theaters. We found a theater, bought the tickets, and we went to the first showing. It's like, yeah, I'm getting married, but like, hey, we also gotta go see Jurassic World, like two days before or whatever. Um, so it it was a big deal. And I I I just remember sitting in that theater, and uh, you know, at the time, you know, starting the podcast and everything, I'm like trying to record as much audio as I can because I had started it with my cousin, so the two of us, and um, you know, we're sitting there in the theater talking about it, like on the way there, we're talking about it, on the way home, we're talking about it, listening to the score. So it was a it was a really great moment to kind of sit down and watch that movie for the first time and and feel so uh excited and tense. Like there's a few movies that like really get you like with chills and stuff right before the movie start and and the the the anticipation, and that was absolutely one of them.

SPEAKER_08 3:17:33

Amazing. That's a really amazing story. I saw it at the BFI IMAX. Really, there really wasn't many people in there, but I was just so hyped for it. I'd I'd read all the articles, I'd seen all the clips, I was ready. And I I felt a bit uh muted from it. And I've mentioned this before, but I think I was waiting for a film that was just never gonna turn up. You know, my you know, I was somebody from Dream. Jurassic Part 3 era, and this film was going to be continuing that story, but too much time had passed for that to still be the case, I think. And it took me a couple of watches. I saw it a couple of times at the cinema, and once I saw it on like a Saturday afternoon with a load of kids and families, and hearing their reaction, I was just like, Oh, okay, I get it now. I understand this. And they it kind of they taught me how to get on board with the film.

SPEAKER_11 3:18:26

Yeah, you know, there is something to to say about seeing a Jurassic movie, a dinosaur movie with like kids and families, and it's really something else. And I think you you really have to remember that when you're watching these movies, especially you know, if if we were that same age, uh, you know, during Jurassic Park 3, that means we were, you know, seven, six, seven, eight years old during that time when Jurassic Park came out. And that's when it hit us. Not obviously, not everybody's in the same age bracket, but like that that's when it worked. And and it was a science-based movie and and very like adult at times, but like it worked so well, and we were kids, and then we followed that up still being kids, still being kids. And then uh obviously, once we're adults a little bit, it's like okay, we our mindset's a little bit different, but you have to you have to put yourself back in those shoes, you know, when you were seven, eight, nine, ten years old. And I think that really makes a difference. So when Jurassic World comes out with a fully functioning park, with a a wild hybrid dinosaur, that's and and the subsequent seek uh sequels, you know, the uh Fallen Kingdom with the volcano and dinosaurs in the wild with Dominion. This these are the stories that I told in my basement with my toys. So like that's that's like exactly what I wanted. And that's the kind of like spirit I get myself into when I'm trying to like watch pretty much any movie. If you listen to any podcast or any of my root movie reviews, it's just like I love them. They're all they're all good. Uh yeah, I like some more than others, but like I just have a good time with them. So when it comes to watching Jurassic World back then, I was just like in awe of what they were doing. Like seeing that fully functioning park was awesome. Now we didn't get a lot of it. And you had you'd brought up a really good point about you know, being from that Jurassic Park 3 era and just wanting to see that story continue because 14 years of of thinking of what that next story is, it's not easy to see a new movie when you've waited 14 years. I mean, we've we've all dealt with it with Star Wars and uh with Indiana Jones and and stuff like that. You know, there's there's movies like that where you sit on them for for ages, for decades, and you're just like you, you they can never live up to what you want it to be fully, you know. And I think um, you know, I've talked about how there you if you make like subtle changes to any of those three Jurassic World movies, you know, they could be even better. And I I love them already, but I think like yeah, it just it just it's it all works out the way it is, and I think um they did yeah a pretty darn good job while not really connecting the dots in the way that I had hoped. You know, I I guess that's that's a good way to put it because like you said, there's so many story story beats and and things that you wanted connected from Jurassic Park 3. So as a follow-up not a great follow-up per se, but like but a great reboot, a great restart for the franchise.

SPEAKER_08 3:21:20

You know, it did it did what it needed to do, you know. Colin Trevaro, who when he was announced, I was just like, who? You know, you know, to be given the keys to this huge franchise and the the pressure he must have felt in a similar way to Joe Johnston taking on Jurassic Part 3, even though he'd done a few films before, but you know, your second film, I I imagine that Colin Trevaro has a lot of confidence. He comes across as somebody that is full of confidence and um you know he won over Spielberg in his uh pitch meeting and also to uh have the script from um uh Rick Jaffer um and Amanda Silver and then go to Spielberg, actually I think we need to rewrite this and start again and push the production a whole year. I mean, that is when I thought actually we've got a fan running the shit now. It feels like somebody who's who's watched this film is interested in it, um, definitely with Colin Trevaro.

SPEAKER_11 3:22:19

Until you find out Derek Connolly's writing, and then you're like, oh, he doesn't even know he does he might not have even seen the last one.

unknown 3:22:26

No.

SPEAKER_08 3:22:28

Yeah. Weird. It's um did did did you watch Safety Not Guaranteed before watching Jurassic World?

SPEAKER_11 3:22:34

Uh yeah, I believe I had watched it before. Um, because yeah, it wasn't like a lot of stuff he needed to catch up on. Like, I know like we're all kind of doing that now with Gareth Edwards re-watching all the stuff that he's made. And there's like four or five things that you should watch, right? But like with Colin Gravarro, it's like, okay, I watched it. And I think during during 2015, there was like him and and guys like Josh Trank, and there was probably some others, I'm forgetting who, but like for some reason there was just a movement to get these like up-and-coming directors in the in the seat to see what their fresh take was. And I I don't know if it was like purely like a fan-based kind of thing. Like these are people who were huge fans when uh you know, growing up of these different franchises, so they're gonna do a great job, which I agree that that could absolutely happen. But like it's still a studio at its heart. So whether Colin wanted to make all the the right choices or not, the studio's involved, and there's other people involved. But I think he did a you know pretty admirable job, and I really liked Safety Not Guaranteed, so I was excited to see what he was about to do, but I had no idea what he could do, really.

SPEAKER_08 3:23:42

You know, no, I think it almost feels like a bit of the movement from when Spielberg entered Hollywood, you know, the early 70s, where they were getting the old Hollywood was dying off, and they needed new blood to come come in. And these people who love the golden age of Hollywood were coming in and you know, doing exciting films that were also making money. And I think maybe some somebody like Spielberg is really good at looking at new directors and going, right, I'm gonna help you along this journey and get you into because we need new directors, fresh blood coming in, and you know, who's gonna be making films in 50 years' time or 40 years, who's gonna be the Spielberg in 20 years or 30 years time. Um, so it felt a little bit it felt a little bit like that, I think.

SPEAKER_11 3:24:21

That's an interesting point. Yeah, I never really looked at it like that. Like they're they're like, Oh, let's try to reinvigorate everything because we're we're getting too old for this, you know. Yeah, I I kind of like that idea because Gareth Edwards was even one of those people. Yeah, he had only made like one movie or whatever before Godzilla, I think, right? So it that's wild. Like you know, that just handing over the keys to these major tenple franchises, you know, for the summer, and it's like, uh, hope you do a great job. And Gareth has been saying that a lot for rebirth. It's like, you know, he had the show around George Lucas around the set uh of Rogue One, and it's like that's that's a completely different pressure that I don't know that necessarily Steven Spielberg and George Lucas had to do back when they were starting. I don't know, maybe there was probably some directors or somebody that stopped by and was like, Who are these kids? I I feel like they would have blown them off more so back in the 70s.

SPEAKER_08 3:25:18

They did, yeah. They uh because um there's there's the famous stuff about Spielberg and Alfred Hitchcock, and Hitchcock was on the downturn of his career. Yeah, he tried desperately, Spielberg tried desperately to go and have a meeting with um Hitchcock, and he was just like, No, I'm not speaking to the guy who made the fish film. You know, that is that is a big no.

SPEAKER_11 3:25:37

Oh, yeah, that's brutal. At least that at least they were trying to like cultivate, you know, uh a good prospect uh for the future, which it really didn't necessarily pan out the way they they maybe wanted it to. Gareth Edwards is maybe the one that really worked out out of that kind of crew right there. So luckily for him, he's uh come back around for us.

SPEAKER_08 3:26:01

I think watching Safety Not Guaranteed and looking at the casting of Jurassic World, Colin wanted comedians, like it seems like for Jurassic World. So Chris Pratt, you know, people who are good at improv maybe, and making all that exposition feel really light and easy, you know, to deliver all that heavy stuff in a in a in a fun way, I think.

SPEAKER_11 3:26:25

Yeah, I yeah, and I like that. They always say that comedians can be some of the most dramatic actors out there, so they're they're tapping into something that that other people don't have, I guess. But Chris Pratt, he was he was funny enough, but like not like he's not like Parks and Rick Chris Pratt, you know, it's he's not Andy Dwyer out there. Um so while they cast some comedic bits, it's it just it wasn't really like a fully comedic movie, which uh, you know, I know a lot of people argue that they marvelified, is that a word? Uh the the university. There, there's there's a bit of it that, but I think I think and I said this recently because when I went to go see Jurassic Park in concert, I think it was, yeah, people were like laughing more than I've ever heard people laughing at at Jurassic Park. And it I sat there and I'm like, I've I've always laughed at this movie, and I've had a great time with this movie, and I find it very funny, but like I didn't realize everybody found it funny. And I I was like, okay, like I think, you know, a lot of really hardcore fans might be getting, we might be getting too much in our heads about how serious of a movie it is. And I think there's a lot of comedy in it, and and especially The Lost World. Jurassic Park 3 attempted some comedy, I think, but uh you know, I don't know, didn't pan out. But I think it doesn't feel that like out and left field for me, the the what the comedy that they brought to Jurassic World. And Jake Johnson's somebody I I love. I love that guy. He's so funny. And I love New Girl and everything he did there, and I you know follow everything he does still, his podcast and everything. Lauren Lapkiss still, like I was literally just watching a video of her just before. Uh, she's hilarious. And um and and Bryce Dallas Howard was like, you know, she she was making her rounds, right? Obviously, in Hollywood, being in Spider-Man 3 and the Village, which was you know a huge follow-up after I think Signs, I think it was after Signs for M Night Shamalan. So that was like a big deal, and obviously Spider-Man 3, big deal. And I I just remember her from my my sister's off-Broadway play. So my sister was was in an off Broadway show in New York City, and uh it was this interesting show that uh it was called like House, House and Garden. I think I don't know if the and was in there, but I think it was just House Garden, and it was like two stages with like different, it was kind of like the Harry Potter thing where you can like I I think you had to like see it twice, or I don't know, but like you had to you had to go twice to see like a different version of it.

SPEAKER_08 3:28:54

So they would leave this is this Alan Eggborne?

SPEAKER_11 3:28:57

I don't know. I have no idea what that is.

SPEAKER_08 3:28:59

I know, I know what you're talking about. Yeah, he's he's he's a British playwright.

SPEAKER_11 3:29:02

So like they would leave the stage, they would leave the stage, go to the other stage, do their thing over there, and then go to the other stage. It was really interesting. And Bryce was in that, and my sister was there. So like we would go to drop my sister off in New York City from New Jersey and just like be like, hey Bryce, she was just there. She was just at that time, she was just Ron Howard's daughter, you know. Like, that's all you knew her as. She was young, uh, she's relatively like similar ages to us. So it's like, you know, it it was it was interesting to to know that, like, oh my god, now she's gonna be in Jurassic. That's wild.

SPEAKER_08 3:29:35

That's cool. Amazing. That's a connection I didn't I didn't think that's an incredible story.

SPEAKER_11 3:29:40

Yeah, my my dad apparently got really like buddy buddy with uh Ron Howard every now and then, so that's pretty funny to me.

SPEAKER_08 3:29:47

Nice. I think I think the best actually looking at the three films. I think Chris Pratt, I think the excitement going into watching that film because of Guardians of the Galaxy was so high for Chris Pratt, and he is he is really good, but I think the one with the actual arc over all the three films is Bryce Dallas Howard's character, and I think her growing as a director, and lots of people would like her to come and direct to Jurassic, I think that would be an amazing idea. I look looking now with 10 years on, when I re-watched it for this podcast and just looking at Bryce Dallas Howard, she was I was like, this is she has a really difficult role to play because she has to play this. It's a little bit two-dimensional, I think, in places, but she, you know, on on the written page, I imagine, but she does manage to add a lot of humour and life and humanity to that character.

SPEAKER_11 3:30:37

Yeah, I I think she got um, you know, uh a little too much hate for that role and obviously the heels of it all. But like I it was all choices that she wanted. Like she was in charge of those choices, and she really brought uh I think a good, you know, good voice to that character. And you know, it was like you said, it was a little bit one-sided and one-dimensional, but like they tried to add in some dimension with the evolution of Claire novel, and it still was like it was still interesting because like you're you're still kind of making this leap of why she wanted to do what she's doing in in Jurassic World Fallen Kingdom. There is a bit of a jump there, but like they they tried to set the stage as best they can to really do that. But I do think she had a great arc overall throughout the the trilogy, and I uh I do like that character quite a bit. And I like just to think of her who she was in Jurassic World, and then you know, the the white outfit, which Mattel, what are you doing? Give us that toy, and you know, just this such a pristine look and haircut and everything, and then to see her running on rooftops, parachuting out of the sky in in Jurassic World Dominion, I love that arc for her. Like, I absolutely love that.

SPEAKER_08 3:31:47

Because Chris Pratt kind of disappears, I think, through this as as the films go on. His particularly by Dominion, I think Sir not appearing in this film. I always think of the Monty Python joke from from Holy from Holy Grail. Because if you watch the theatrical version, I was just like, how many lines has he had? It's just like hardly any, you know. It feels particularly by the end of the film, like blime. But yeah, I when watching the extended, it does make a bit more sense. But Bryce is almost the opposite, she becomes more to the fore.

SPEAKER_11 3:32:14

Yeah, I mean, it was it was uh her uh at the center of the story in Jurassic World. It was about her family showing up to the island and you know the fact that she was the way she was, and she needed to kind of get out of that version of herself and and be a little bit more or have a little bit more empathy for other people and dinosaurs and her family and actually care about things. And by the end of it, you know, she learned a lesson, which is nice, and she, you know, I I know some people will argue about her like her trajectory of like wanting to be a mother. Um it was you know, it was its own thing, but I think uh there's there's a good story there at the heart of it.

SPEAKER_08 3:32:51

Well, what do you think about the story being similar to Jurassic Park? Because we had Force Awakens, that's it, and how similar that was to A New Hope. And I don't know, I think Jurassic World does a better job of paying tribute to Jurassic Park. I think that than when I first sat down and watched Force Awakens and and kind of I was just comparing it too much to A New Hope all the time.

SPEAKER_11 3:33:16

You know, I I didn't get in my head with that. Um, I think what bothered me about uh The Force Awakens was more so like J.J. Abram's mystery box of it all, which I do think kind of comes into Jurassic a little bit. Um, but like they they talked about so much behind the scenes that like wow, hey everybody, we want you to know we are going practical, everything is real, you know, because of all the hate that the prequels got and everything. Um so they I that just bothered me so much. So I I wasn't really connecting those dots as thoroughly, but it is obviously very much like the same thing. It's like this this person who is off on a random world, finds some hope and joins the resistance in this case, and you know, it's the same thing. And then there's a big battle at the end. I get it. Story beat-wise, and a lot of the storytelling is very, very different, of course, but um Jurassic is in my eyes less of a copy. Um I know people have said that about Lost World too, that or uh Fallen Kingdom, that it feels very much like the Lost World. That one I that I I less connect with that theory, I think. But Jurassic Park and Jurassic World, they feel so very different to me. I know, like, yeah, kids, kids come to the island, but like it we're not we're not trying to prove an island at this point. It's been proven. There's dinosaurs that break out, yeah. And then it's it is it's got similarities, but I I just feel like the storytelling is so so different that it doesn't it doesn't like connect in that same way that like the Force Awakens does with Star Wars or A New Hope.

SPEAKER_08 3:34:54

I was when I was watching it, I was thinking that the best I d I still think the first part of the film feels just a it it's too fast, a lot of it. It doesn't let me like ease myself into the island very much. I want to see more, but I I I get what they're trying to do with the fact of you know that people are frantic and just rushing about and you don't get to see the tyrannosaur paddock and the introduction of the tyrannosaur in that section is I find quite funny now, uh you know, everybody just holding up mobile phones. But yeah, I j I wanted a little bit more of a a breather. I think I I think for all of the three world films and uh uh several of us on on the you know that I've spoken about Lost World and Jurassic Park 3 is having those moments where you can just the film can just stop and we just focus on one thing for five, ten minutes.

SPEAKER_11 3:35:43

Yeah, I I do think just in general, movies these days are are lacking that. Uh a lot of movies, so it's a shame because I love those calm discussions that that they had in in the original Jurassic Park, sitting around a lunch table just debating things, no music, nothing happening. It's just calm, no action, like that stuff is is severely missing. And I think a lot of movies are getting it right nowadays, but like but that movie, you're right, it just it keeps going, it keeps going. And Michael Gacino, I love his score in there, but it like it never stops, it never gives room to breathe at all. And he did learn that along the ways. I think there are there are moments of of uh breath there in the other two movies, but but this one just literally a hundred miles per hour the entire time. And you know, I was just thinking about it um when you were saying like uh about like getting to the island and doing all these things, seeing all these things. You mentioned the cell phones. I was thinking, like, oh, at least we didn't get like like if if it was made more so today than 2015, we would have gotten a lot of people being like, all right, so I am on Jurassic World, like which is like which is exactly what Camp Cretaceous did. As I was thinking that, I was like, oh, that's exactly what Camp Cretaceous did because it was a few years later and everything. So they kind of got into that a little bit more. Um, but who am I joking? I would be doing that that exact thing if I went to Jurassic World.

SPEAKER_08 3:37:06

So I'd be live streaming from the like Mosasaurus, yeah, show, definitely.

SPEAKER_11 3:37:11

But like, but I think I think they I think they did it in a good way where like you know, one kid just doesn't care. They're kind of showing that that that which I don't buy into that at all. No, that people like don't care about dinosaurs anymore. Um and for some reason we're seemingly doing that again. Yeah, I think they kind of like has have had that mission statement pop up a little bit in for rebirth. So yeah, but but I I agree. Like the the time and the the uh time spent on that shot, like that really amazing shot panning over the park and kind of pushing into the visitor or the discovery center. Yeah, what's it called? Innovation center. Too many different centers, discovery centers in Florida, uh at uh at Islands of Venture. I wanted to go and explore every one of those locations. You know, I've really wanted to see what the water park is like, see what the hotels are like, see anything and like the T-Rex, you know, uh kingdom there. It's like we don't really get to explore that. And and yeah, it's just there's so many great areas of that park. I would just love to explore deeper. And I I've always pushed for like a live-action TV show that really doesn't have a ton to do with dinosaurs per se, but like you could you could show that park in operation. I think that would be really, really cool. But Camp Cretaceous did do a decent job of showing us some other locations and and and stuff, while not fully fleshed out like like the movies. It it uh it did show us like some expansion. And I I've I've laughed about this before, but Jurassic World Live Tour, when that was on tour doing its thing, there was a scene in there towards the end, I think, and it's got just like gas tanks, like a gas station, and it's got like a Jurassic World logo on it. I'm like, yo, that's awesome. There's a gas tank location, like that's how excited I get of like little details like that expanding the world. So so yeah, it just it rushed into the story of these these characters that we had to follow across three separate movies and uh didn't necessarily show us everything we wanted to see, I guess. Uh, from that book.

SPEAKER_08 3:39:13

I uh for me, I think the film really kicks in when the raptors are let loose to go and you know attack the Indominus and you get the amazing. I really like that reveal. I still enjoy it now. Like some people, oh it's got raptor, everybody would but it's such a I just think it's such a great shot of them realizing it and the raptors turning round and then you see the the head cameras from the raptors and they're all focusing on Owen. And I I just I think that's so good. That is what Colin does really well is those twist moments. And yeah, I think then the film just feels really fun for me. You know, that there's really great comedy with the raptors. The raptors are really great when they grab that bloke off out the back of the truck. It feels visceral, it's it's You know, there's some good jump scares going on. I love the music. Yeah, I think it for me, the film really works from that point on.

SPEAKER_11 3:40:08

Like, like I was saying before, it was me playing with my toys. When I was a kid, we had a toy. It was the um what's his name? Uh oh, man, I'm blanking on his name. Uh, hey Carter. Uh Carter. I had to like get back into the lost world. Hey Carter. You know, like so. Carter had a motorcycle that like and and also there was also the uh I don't know what his name was, but there was like a guy that like, or I don't know who who if it did, maybe it didn't come with somebody, but there was a really awesome like motorcycle with a sidecar. So I was playing with motorcycles with Jurassic Toys all the time. And like that adventure music, you know, bum bum bum bum bum bum bum like having that play while he's driving through the woods as unrealistic as it is, and like having these dinosaurs next to him. There's an awesome camera shot of like down near the ground when the raptors are running right past the camera and the camera's shaking and rumbling. I love that. That is so incredible and so much fun. And um, I know a lot of people say the raptors aren't scary, but like that moment when they're taking out like the engine security or whoever they are, like they're they're that's scary. That's the kind of scary stuff I think is good for me. You know, like that's that's good. I mean, and uh speaking of like scary, but like Gareth Edwards has you know been quoted a lot recently of saying that like Jurassic Park is a horror movie, and I I just I don't agree with him at all. And I I was glad that like Empire magazine was like David Kepp doesn't agree with him on that point. I'm like, yes, me and David Kepp, dude, we're in a line here. But so there's elements of horror in Jurassic Park, so it's not like a it's not really a gory mess. I know there's one arm, there's some you know attacks and things, but I I was fine with the amount of scares and and uh you know.

SPEAKER_08 3:41:51

It's Spielberg horror. You know, I think I think I when I spoke to Derek, we we chatted about Jurassic Park and said about you know the jump scares during that film and the um the Dilophosaurus and that scene being probably the most terrific part of um for me anyway, of of Jurassic Park, particularly when it suddenly appears in the car for entry. I think it's the I think it's tone more than what happens. I think you don't have to show much. I think you just need to have the moments leading up to it that feel ominous and that you don't you you feel unsafe. And I I think g I think that's probably what they mean is the fact of feeling unsafe in this environment and unsafe around like e even like large animals like uh gorillas and stuff, when you see people in a in a in a cage with a a gorilla and they're just you know that that that thing can rip you to shreds. You've just got you know, it's yeah, you've just got just the fear every time I see anything like that. And and yeah, I think the bit where the raptors get out and they're rushing around, that feels they feel like animals, they feel like real animals, and I I love that. Finally we're getting because we don't really get that in the other we get that in Lost World, but you get the speed of them as well in in in that sequence.

SPEAKER_11 3:43:07

Yeah, and you mentioned that guy getting ripped out of the truck, like that's comedy to me. Like, there's a whole part where like Claire is like I don't know, like hold hands or whatever, and they're like the kids don't know what to do in the back of this truck, guys getting ripped out. Like, there's a lot of comedy and like scary moments to that. So I I love that. I love those those those beats there. And and um, yeah, yeah, it's it's fun, it's fun. It's uh it's got some good action, and I think it's got it out, it's got it all. It's got the action, it's got some funny stuff, it's got some some scares, and it's it's kind of showing you the world that you wish you had back in Jurassic Park, you know, like how how fleshed out it is. So I I appreciate what they were doing there.

SPEAKER_08 3:43:47

And I even you know, I like the ending, and I think the ending, like The Lost World, all of the misgivings maybe that people had about the film going through like um like Jurassic World. When you get to the Main Street scene with the Indominus and Blue and the T-Rex coming out, uh you I forget all the flaws with that film during that sequence because you're just like, oh my word, yeah, it feels I really enjoy it, and I love again. I think the music of Michael Jacino really sells it. It's big, it's bombastic, it's fun.

SPEAKER_11 3:44:23

Yeah, oh the music is so good there. Like it's literally just like battle music, and it's it's so good. Um, and and yeah, having that all come together, like you've seen the the gifts, the pictures, the whatever little clips constantly of that sequence, but when you're watching it after you've watched the whole movie leading up to that, it is so thrilling and so fun. And the honestly, like Colin Trevaro's camera work in that section is is flawless. Like it's really great. Like, you think if you watch the camera just kind of moving through that entire set and going through buildings and stuff, it's really cool what he's doing there. And to know that none of that is really actually happening in front of them as they're navigating those streets and the buildings, it's really cool what he did there. So if you if you haven't like go back and watch that, everybody, and just like take a look at the camera work there, it's really interesting. So, but that is that is thrilling, and that that is a moment I think I really, really remember from that first viewing is and this is something that like the first trilogy wasn't capable of doing necessarily, like um too too much, because yes, they could have done it with some of the characters, but they didn't really get you too emotionally attached to different storylines or things too too much. But I think in terms of like having a dinosaur come back, like you know, whatever it was, however many years later, it's uh it felt I felt something, and I I was like, oh man, they're gonna kill her off after all this time.

SPEAKER_08 3:45:51

They're gonna I was oh my god, they're not gonna do the same as Jurassic Part 3.

SPEAKER_11 3:45:56

Yeah, and uh look, I didn't care about that at all. Like that was comedy to me. Like it I was I love the Spinosaurus, so that didn't mean anything to me. It was just a T-Rex, it wasn't anything that I loved, it wasn't anything. So to have this one be at the center of this battle and literally, you know, have its neck in the throat of the uh the uh Indominus there, like it's just or in the teeth. It was it was brutal, and I was scared very much so for that dinosaur. I absolutely thought it was gonna die. And then to have blue come out of nowhere in slow-mo, as silly as it was, like with that music in particular, which I don't understand, but like it was it was awesome. And then the whole like the way it was all finished off of the Mosasaurus. That's the moment where I start to feel bad, and I'm like, oh, I actually feel sympathy for that creature, just like Gareth's trying to tell us about uh the dis Distortus Rex. You know, there's something about that that's you know, you're you're gonna have some sympathy for it. So that's how I felt about the Indominus after its killing spree, after it, you know, killed people and dinosaurs and wrecked stuff. I still felt bad for it at the end of the day, you know, because it was just a dog in a cage, basically.

SPEAKER_08 3:47:06

And talking about the camera work, actually, you've just sparked me thinking about it. And uh Colin does a really good job, I think like uh Spielberg did in the original, the changing of the perspective. So you go from the kids' point of view to the to the adult's point of view all the way through Jurassic Park, but rarely do you see the dinosaur's point of view. And I think Colin in that attack, you know, where you've got the the two sets of fights going on, really, you've got the dinosaur fight, and then you've got the people trying to escape it and you know trying to get involved. And you see like he moves the camera from the T-Rex's point of view down to then into the shops, and you see it from Claire and Owen's point of view, and then you go back, and then actually, yeah, I I until you said that I hadn't really picked up on that. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_11 3:47:55

It's really cool, and I know like everybody wants the movie to be Jurassic Park, but that that will never happen. We will never ever get Jurassic Park again. Sorry, Jurassic World Rebirth is not gonna be Jurassic Park again, as good as it could be. It's not gonna be Jurassic Park. It's just not possible, just the same way as uh a new hope is or uh uh The Force Awakens is not gonna be a new hope. So we can't go back to those moments of getting like the perspective and talking about the the beauty and the majesty of revealing dinosaurs for the first time. You can only do that once. So I appreciate Colin trying some new things and doing stuff a little bit differently and showing us that there's new there's new perspectives, there's new way to new ways to view these dinosaurs with names, with relationships with the with the dinosaurs. So I I appreciated what he was doing there, and I I really liked so much of that stuff. I love the blue and owen stuff, and uh the one the one perspective I I absolutely hated though was the uh like the af the the aftermath of the battle with the T-Rex and uh there's just that shot from I guess it's like from like is it from like blue's perspective or something? But whatever it is, it's like yeah, it's bad, it's horrible. And like most of the movie looks pretty good, but like that moment looks god-awful, and I don't know why they left that. I don't ever want to see the T-Rex from that point of view ever again. It's horrible. Um, but outside of that, I think they've done a phenomenal job of bringing these dinosaurs to life and making them look pretty real. Dominion, like everything looks so good in Dominion, and Rebirth looks like it's gonna be even better. Like it's it's crazy how how how good they've like perfected it over the years.

SPEAKER_08 3:49:34

So, how do you think we are now 10 years later? How how do you think this first initial part of the Jurassic World trilogy stands out?

SPEAKER_11 3:49:42

Well, for me, if if one just bring it from my perspective, I I I think it stands up so well. I like I think the movie holds up incredibly well. I watched it again recently and I was showing my kids all of them, actually, in like weird orders. I don't know what I was doing, but um it's just like whatever, we'll just throw something on. Um and they're in any order, it doesn't matter. I think Jurassic World really, really holds up still. It still works on every level. And I think if you talk about like the entire franchise, like I I love all especially the Jurassic World franchise, like I love what they did, and I love that we were able to expand into an animated show, a short film, and I love the scores that they've really held up really well, and they they got better and better as they went along. And so I think like they and and Jurassic World's an interesting one because the way that Universal has viewed it for so long now, for the past you know, 10 years, I guess now, it it's been like their icon, like Universal in the parks and stuff like that. It like they have never been able to get away from Jurassic World. It's been so it made so much money and did so well and was so apparent to everybody in the world that like Jurassic World's a thing, and we all love Jurassic World. Everybody, you know, outside of like film Twitter and stuff like that, like everybody loves Jurassic World. And it's weird to now see them trying to distance themselves, like in a way, while still holding that title, still holding Jurassic World in their name, because they're not gonna demolish like the Jurassic World The Ride in in Hollywood or or the Velocicoaster or the Beijing attraction, which looks phenomenal. So we're at this weird point where it's like, how does Universal view it? That's what I'm more curious about. Like, what is their perspective on on how this is aged? Uh, because I love it, I think it's great. I didn't think we needed to go necessarily to a new, like start fresh in a new era and all that. So I I'm I'm curious more so of what they think this is aged like. Uh because in my mind, I'm like, they don't think it aged well at all, I guess. I don't know. Because they're changing things up.

SPEAKER_08 3:51:48

Yeah, yeah, changing things up, and also we haven't had any announcement about any 10th anniversary events or anything for Jurassic World. And it's without it and without it hitting like it did, reinvigorating the franchise, we wouldn't have rebirth. Like it would, we would not be sitting here. So, you know, however much people might not like the the films that came afterwards, yeah. Jurassic World did an incredible job of reminding people that actually people love dinosaurs, they love going to see Jurassic Park films, you know, Jurassic films.

SPEAKER_11 3:52:22

Yeah. And that's the thing that stood the test of time, right? Is is Jurassic films. There's there's no other movies that can do it quite like them. And even if even if people don't like them, they're the only ones that are out there. So you kind of have to watch them if you want to if you want to see dinosaurs. Yeah, like there's no other options. Yeah, you know, they try, Adam Driver tried. Uh Disney tried with the good dinosaur a while back, and and and dinosaur the movie a while back too. Um, but like, and Disney is like, we don't like dinosaurs at all anymore, to the point where we're gonna get rid of them in their in their theme parks, and and it's just weird. Like, dinosaurs are still very relevant and still very exciting, and Jurassic has proven that. And Jurassic World, I think, like uh, especially with the theme parks, they're really banking on that just being a a very popular thing for the for the foreseeable future. So um I'll be curious to like see what they do with rebirth and where does that take us? And like how much do we distance ourselves from Jurassic World as a movie and and the the sequels? And um, you know, do do we ever get a a rebirth land somewhere in a theme park? Or you know, uh what what kind of tie-in stuff do we get for that? Like, will there be a Jurassic World Rebirth live tour? You know, like how how far out there are we going, or is this like a like a quick, you know, one and done kind of deal? Like, I I'm very curious as to what the idea is here.

SPEAKER_08 3:53:49

Like, I'm gonna really enjoy, I think, watching Rebirth, but the kind of anticipation of what's gonna happen afterwards, I have absolutely no clue about what's what's gonna happen next.

SPEAKER_11 3:54:00

Well, yeah. I mean, we've got like general, you know, thoughts and ideas as far as what's happening in the movie itself. So like we can kind of pinpoint a lot of the the plot points and where they're gonna head, but like ultimately I don't know what the goal is. Like, what no where are we where are we going? What are we doing? What's the what's the end game for the Jurassic franchise with this new era? Um, because it's not gonna end, it's not gonna be done. No, you know, it's not gonna stop there. And I know they they just talked about the potential for sequels, and Gareth hasn't heard anybody talking about that. And but at the same time, like I think Frank Marshall was like talking about the cast and maybe locking them up, or maybe not. I don't know. Like, so who really knows where they're gonna go with this? And but but it would like you said, it wouldn't be here without Jurassic World. We wouldn't have gotten so much uh, you know, all the the toys and merchandise and the theme parks and the live tours and the podcasts and YouTube's and the uh you know the fan community, which I think is is like the most important thing to come out of Jurassic World. And that's the best part that's like tested its time here, is is the fact that we we all came together and created a really awesome community online. And yeah, uh, you know, there's there's different which I've always wanted for Jurassic. Star Wars has always been like that kind of goal, uh, as far as like what do you want? And I know the Star Wars fan community is like a it's an iffy thing that you want to compare yourself to, but like, yeah, but in terms of like having endless fan outlets and conversation and Star Wars celebration and and all that stuff, we we've wanted to hit that goal. And I think Jurassic World didn't it didn't fully catch us up to that speed, but we're getting there. We're really getting there. We're kind of like we're on we're on the map now a little bit as a fan base, which I appreciate. And it's it's nice that like we've been able to touch base with so many cool people over the years, and that's that's been my favorite part of the past uh you know 10 years and and the legacy of Jurassic World.

SPEAKER_08 3:56:06

And yeah, I'd just like to say the Jurassic Park podcast. I I do love it, it's an amazing podcast. Uh it's lively and vibrant, and I think you're such a great host. And I'd just like to say thank you so much for joining me on my podcast as I'm just starting out.

SPEAKER_11 3:56:22

Oh no, no, no, I uh don't agree with anything that you said there basically. I feel like I'm just winging it the whole time. I don't know what I'm doing. And uh, but I appreciate that, uh, the kind words. It's been really, really fun and uh you know gives me the opportunity to talk with people like you and so many other people over the years. It's it's kind of crazy. It's been 10 years now. So what a what a wild ride it's been.

SPEAKER_08 3:56:46

Yeah, have you got any kind of standouts in the past 10 years that really like a moment that you were like, I'm really glad I'm doing this.

SPEAKER_11 3:56:52

Uh I mean, look, uh the the entire thing, I I um just like meeting the people that I've talked to in in the internet and and meeting them in person, being like a part of Jennifer's wedding with like that was really cool. Like, I you know, I had met her through the fan community. She was a part of the show. I was in her wedding. And then like getting to do more like things like interviews with like Jurassic World Live Tour. And I I like literally did an interview on the show floor, like with a big round table, and it was chaotic, and and I was horrified the entire time because my my equipment stopped working and I had to scramble to get it to work, but it was still like an awesome experience. And and there's been some you know just great interviews and things over the years that I'm really proud of and excited by. So yeah, it's been a it's been so many like things all together, friendships and and uh professional experiences and and you know, Mattel or somebody sending me something that it's just like really awesome to and then to pass that on to like my kids too, who you know, they see me doing this and they they get excited when like a new package shows up and they want to unbox it with me. And I'm like, all right, whatever, let's let's go ahead and do it. So like it's it's really cool for me to be able to do that with them and share Jurassic with them in these past few years.

SPEAKER_08 3:58:10

Um yeah, I'd just like to say thank you so much for joining me today. It's been an absolute pleasure to relive the Jurassic world and just to say that you are fantastic at doing at doing what you're doing. I think, and you and Tom, you have such a great chemistry together. It's I I I went all the podcasts, to be honest, that every single one has something that's different. And I love seeing opening up my podcast app and seeing one of them pop up. And I mean, right, okay, that's my train journey sorted.

SPEAKER_11 3:58:39

Yeah, well, that's what I wanted. I I wanted um something that was accessible for so many people, all families, kids, you know, adults, um, to kind of hit that middle ground where people can all kind of enjoy it. And I was a big fan back in, you know, the like Kingdom of the Crystal Skull days when when that movie came out, the the Indy cast, I still am, I still listen to them all the time. Uh, but the Indy cast like was a model for me. Like, I was like, man, they do it so well where they have anybody from the fan community be a part of the show. And I I really loved that. And I was like, Jurassic needs that. So like that's why I was like, all right, well, let's finally do it. I waited too long and I was just like, all right, now's the time. Let's give it, let's give people like Tom, like Aaron, uh, you know, Ed Jay. Like, there's so many people out there that have been involved in the show. Let's give them an outlet to do something. And even Connor recently, more so with like the W DNA seek uh um segments, like that's not anything I could ever do. And I I like having people like that that can have those conversations. They're basically having their own podcasts, and then I'm just putting it out. Like I'm just like the like the person to upload it. Like that's about it. And I I I like being that person that can just kind of showcase whatever whatever's happening, whatever, talk about whatever's going on, but also give other people a voice, you know.

SPEAKER_08 3:59:56

Great. Um, so where can people find you on on online?

SPEAKER_11 3:59:59

Well, uh, Jurassic Park Podcast.com is the made main spot there. So go find us over there, and you can find all the you know, Spotify, Apple Podcast links, YouTube. We do live streams uh every Wednesday night, 9 p.m. EST, um, here in New Jersey. So uh and then recently we've been doing more so like uh a first Thursday because of the Beyond the Gates drops and stuff like that. So you can find us over on YouTube live streaming. And um I also do like two other shows. So I do like the Force Cast. So we talk about Star Wars. We're really getting into Andor currently. I do a theme park podcast. Did I say what it was? It was the Force Cast. Uh I do a theme park podcast that's called Grim Grinning Hosts, where we talk about Universal, we talk about Disney and all that stuff. So that's a great uh episode or show. And uh yeah, that's that's about it. You can just find me in all those places there.

SPEAKER_08 4:00:47

Amazing. Well, I'd just like to say again, thank you so much. And yeah, we'll we'll have to have a chat maybe once rebirth comes out.

SPEAKER_11 4:00:54

Yes, absolutely. Let's do it. Yeah, and we you gotta come on our show at some point, too.

SPEAKER_08 4:01:01

My huge thanks to Brad for that conversation. I love talking to him. It is so much fun. I really hope that we can talk in the future once rebirth is out. If you like what I do here on this podcast, please leave me a review and a rating on Apple Podcasts. It really does help this show find a bigger audience. And uh again, thank you so much to everybody that has sent some really nice and touching messages about how much they're actually enjoying this show in the lead up to watching the new film. Uh I can feel all your excitement. My excitement is growing as well, and I've still got so many episodes and amazing guests to bring you as well. Uh next time I'm talking to Samantha Endres, and we are discussing Fallen Kingdom. Please let me know your thoughts about Fallen Kingdom over on my Instagram page at Road2Rebirth Pod. But until next time, I'll say thank you very much for listening and goodbye.

SPEAKER_03 4:02:05

You know, Zia just, I don't know, kind of the take no shit. Like she knows her stuff. Like she wants to go help these dinosaurs. And Franklin kind of feel for the guy. Like, he's a little he's a little scared of the dinosaurs. Like, he doesn't necessarily want to go. Yeah. But also I think that's kind of relatable. Like, hey, I want to help. Oh no. How am I how did I get signed up to go to the island of the dinosaurs? Oh no. Like, I'm just the ID guy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 4:02:35

Hello and welcome back to Road to Rebirth. I'm Roland Squire. After the huge success of Jurassic World in 2015, the sequel was a mere formality. But Colin Trevaro stepped aside to pursue other projects and helped the series evolve in a new direction. In his place came Spanish director J.A. Biona, known for films like The Orphanage, The Impossible, and Monster Calls. Biona brought a much darker, more emotional approach to this Jurassic story. To help me unpack this shift in tone and storytelling, I'm thrilled to be joined by someone who's been deeply embedded in the Jurassic community. She's been involved with Jurassic Outpost, see Jurassic Write, and even helped shape the viral marketing campaign for Jurassic World Dominion. Please welcome to the podcast, Samantha Andres. Samantha, thank you so much for joining me.

SPEAKER_03 4:03:25

Yeah, thanks for having me on.

SPEAKER_08 4:03:26

I'm excited to talk about it. Cool. I was wondering whether you could kick us off by just telling me a little bit about your Jurassic story, really. Why Jurassic?

SPEAKER_03 4:03:35

Sure. Um, I think like many people kind of around our age grew up with Jurassic and kind of evolved once uh World came out. I didn't necessarily know that there was such a big fan base for it. Like it was just, you know, me talking with friends in person. So what quickly escalated to finding a whole community on Twitter turned into having a a core group of friends that we had a Jurassic Fantasy Football League. Yeah, and we wow yeah, we became friends that way, and we all have like uh Jurassic-themed fantasy football names, you know, led to them some being some of my best friends, which led to being asked to be part of Outpost. And then Outpost kind of led to Dominion uh marketing in a way. Um it's you know, it's just been great like community to be in, being able to talk about dinosaurs with people, you know, and as adults, you how often do you get a chance to just figure it out about those things? So yeah, no, it's been a great community to be a part of the last few years.

SPEAKER_08 4:04:44

And are you excited for Rebirth?

SPEAKER_03 4:04:47

I am. I'm very excited. I'm a big Scarlett Johansson fan.

SPEAKER_08 4:04:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 4:04:52

Black Widow, one of my favorite characters. So I was very excited to see her being the main character in this movie. And, you know, just the whole entire cast seems like it's gonna be good. And I like that it's kind of a a fresh quote unquote rebirth. Yeah, exactly. But you know, kind of a a loose reboot, if you will, but uh still sticking to you know the base of what we know with David Kepp. And yeah, I think that got me even more excited when we knew David Kepp was coming back, and like yeah, I think the PR has all been kind of hinging on like we've got David Kepp back.

SPEAKER_08 4:05:29

It's it's uh it's rare that you get a a writer that is leading the marketing campaign of your film. Right. When you've got somebody like Scarlett Johansson and Jonathan Bailey and Mahershari, yeah, and David Kepp is there.

SPEAKER_03 4:05:41

Yeah, it's like he's been one of the the big names since the beginning, which I find interesting. Yeah. But yeah, no, I'm just in general, excited to see what what happens, and I'm I'm just a fan of these movies in general, so uh I will watch whatever they give me. Okay, nice.

SPEAKER_08 4:05:59

So today we're talking about Fallen Kingdom, and I was wondering whether you could kick us off with a synopsis for the Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:06:05

So Fallen Kingdom, it's not necessarily doesn't kick off because we have a nice little prologue at the beginning. Um, and I think it's about six months after where we see the the cool little submarine scene. But for the most part, the movie takes place about three years after the events of Jurassic World, where you know everything went to hell uh and the park no longer exists. And where we come in is finding out that Mount Sebo, which was a formerly dormant volcano, is no longer dormant, and there's an eruption impending, and it's going to threaten the entire island and possibly kill all the dinosaurs on there. From there, we get back to Claire. Uh Claire's had kind of a life change, and she is a part of the Dinosaur Protection Group, which is, I think, a fun new group that was brought in for this film. And she's very much about wanting to save the dinosaurs. But how are we gonna do that when our government has said we're we're leaving them? It's it's fine. We're not gonna we're not gonna send anybody to help. Which then spirals into Owen, you know, some help from from a whole nother mysterious uh new character, Benjamin Lockwood. And yeah, we we go from there with with dinosaur adventures.

SPEAKER_08 4:07:26

Nice, cool. What was your first reaction when you've when when you saw it for the first time?

SPEAKER_03 4:07:30

So I actually, because of Jurassic Outpost, I got to go to the premiere. So that was my first time seeing it, which is an experience in you know in itself. Yeah. It was, I don't know, I really liked Bayona's, and I think we've kind of chatted about this uh beforehand, but kind of the gothic nature of like the the latter half of the movie, you know, and always the the imagery of the Indoraptor on top of the house. That always got me excited. Like I love seeing that just kind of dark, moody kind of uh uh dinosaurs. In general, uh, it wasn't necessarily my favorite right off. And I mean, I still love the movie, but uh I feel like it was a little bit disjointed when I watched it. Like it very much feels kind of like the first part and the island and then going to the Lockwood estate, like two different kinds of movie feelings. That being said, I like both parts, but when they got, you know, kind of mushed together, it's like this feels like a lot to to take in. Overall, I thought it was a nice adventure. I really liked uh especially like Claire's arc and getting to explore her going from the capitalist to the naturalist and being part of that dinosaur protection group. I really enjoyed her centering around her and and you know how her feelings and thoughts shifted. And yeah, I don't know. I was I was obviously very emotional too because of the Brachiosaurus. Like that's I think that was a a hit.

SPEAKER_08 4:09:10

I I when I first saw it, I I this is the only Jurassic Park film that I think I've only seen once in the cinema. And I just didn't know how to take it. Yeah. Like I had a bit of a slow start to Jurassic World, but after a couple of viewings, I really got invested in it and was really enjoying it and enjoying the audience reaction. And then it, yeah, as you say, the film is one of two halves, really. And in first viewing, I was unsure of how they both went together and whether they did it successfully. Having been, I mean, were you a f had you seen things like The Orphanage and Impossible? Um, had you seen those before?

SPEAKER_03 4:09:51

No, no, I wasn't uh I hadn't seen any Bayona's work beforehand.

SPEAKER_08 4:09:55

Yes, but I saw The Orphanage, which was when it was first very gothic Spanish horror film, and I'd been to see a Monster Calls the Christmas beforehand, basically because I knew he was going to do it, but I was a fan of him anyway. That have have you seen a Monster Calls?

SPEAKER_03 4:10:11

I haven't, no.

SPEAKER_08 4:10:12

Geez. It is I I saw it on a a snowy evening, and I have never experienced uh what sadness felt like in in the company of other people. I uh I it's a very harrowing tale about uh a mum who's dying of cancer and the son who's dealing with the grief, and the grief is manifesting itself in this giant. But when when the film finished, no, you could just hear like little sniffs, little handkerchiefs coming out, and then yeah, we just drove home in silence as the snow uh fell around us. And I was like, he's gonna make a Jurassic Park film.

SPEAKER_02 4:10:52

This is I don't know, but how is this gonna fit?

SPEAKER_08 4:10:56

Yeah. So watching it more recently, I think I've grown to really enjoy the film a lot more, uh, to the point where I think it is now my favourite of the world trilogy. Oh, really? Okay. Watching it for the later time for this for this podcast, I just I I was just amazed at how well it worked for me. I think because of the gothic elements, I think because I understood what he was going for. It's much pulpier, it's like a sort of Vincent Price 1960s, William Castle, but also he adds a real amount of heart and uh tangibility to the animals, which wasn't really there because there's so much in of CGI in Jurassic World, and there's a lot more animatronics, and they feel really great, and he makes sure that those scenes are really pivotal. If we talk about you said about the opening of the film, so I think everybody I've spoken to so far loves the opening of Fallen Kingdom. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:11:59

What's what's your take on it? Yeah, I I think Fallen Kingdom, I feel like, is one of those movies that's kind of very divisive in the Jurassic fandom, but I feel like we all like that opening sequence. Just the the creepiness, I feel like, and and kind of the it's dark, it's you know, we've got the underwater elements of of what are we searching for? They're looking for something. And you know, coupled with the people on that are still on the uh on the land and like oh something's moving behind them. We know dinosaur movies, this is not gonna end well. But yeah, no, I feel like that was a very good little Jurassic, even like short film, just that sequence. Yeah, and then you know, obviously kicking off the like, oh, they're on a mission to get to recover things from Jurassic Worlds and obviously gonna do something with it, make more dinosaurs or or whatever they wanted to do. So it was, I feel like it was a really great kickoff to getting back into Jurassic and like where we are after the events of world. I also really liked for I don't know, maybe this is the dark gothic lover in me, but the fact that Indominus Rex was this big, you know, bad guy in the in the world, and then it's a skeleton, like we're just looking through its bones in in Fallen Kingdom, and I don't know, I really, I really like that. Macabre picture to it. Yeah, yeah, I thought that was cool.

SPEAKER_08 4:13:32

So I think they added that because they knew that they weren't gonna have like a big bit of action for a little while. And yeah, then we do get involved with Claire and Owen returning, and we as you said about Claire's um character development in this film, she's obviously gone through a lot. We kind of in are introduced to her in exactly the same way we are in Jurassic World, the same pan up. Yeah, um, she's still got the high heels on, um but she's in a completely different thing. I like that the lift door doesn't open correctly when she comes through. So you know what she's working with now. Does the backstory of what Claire and Owen have been through in the intervening years, do you think their relationship is do you buy into it? Do you buy into the fact that these two like each other or have done? I was watching it this time, just like I don't know whether I know whether they've been a couple, it fit it doesn't I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 4:14:27

Yeah, I I don't feel like they they fit together, honestly, after Claire's kind of when she's going on her arc, like she's kind of figuring out her life right now, and Owen Owen's Owen. I don't feel like he changes all that much through these movies. Um so the fact that they're kind of dancing around each other, it's it's there, it it doesn't do a whole lot for me. Liked them as like characters in this movie to be working together, but as like a romance, it was yeah, take it or leave it.

SPEAKER_08 4:15:01

I do feel like there's a they're a little bit more seasoned, particularly Bryce Dallas Howard, I think feels much more comfortable in a role this time. And I read that Spielberg wanted to foster a kind of Kerry Grant, Katherine Hepburn sort of thing between them, almost like he did with like Indiana Jones and Marion in those films. And you do get when I read that and then thinking about the films, I said, yeah, there's all those little moments where they kind of have a little go at each other. Yeah, but we I you don't get that moment where they come together at the end. I just would feel yeah like they've been through this journey, but you want some resolution to that all of the little stuff that they've been on towards the end, you know. Yeah, it's something that's missed, and then or you anticipate that it's gonna be a big moment in Dominion, and then suddenly they're just living together.

SPEAKER_03 4:15:48

Right.

SPEAKER_08 4:15:48

And you kind of skip over the bits that we wanted to see of their relationship.

SPEAKER_03 4:15:53

Yeah, exactly. There that I think you kind of hit it there with there was never that moment of like, oh, they work together. I feel like the transition from Fallen King of Dominion is just like we kind of have to be together because of Maisie. Like and we're kind of in this whole situation together, but like, do they really work?

SPEAKER_08 4:16:15

Yeah, I don't know. It's a I think it's a big I like both of them, but as a as as as a couple, it's just I think Owen doesn't change enough through the films. He slowly just disappears, I think.

SPEAKER_03 4:16:27

Yeah. Fades out.

SPEAKER_08 4:16:29

Yeah. Whereas Claire rises out and is, you know, feel like her character has changed from being this corporate person who didn't want children to now being a mum at the end of it. We also get Zia and and and Franklin. Jurassic always has to bring on new characters, seemingly, in each in each film.

SPEAKER_03 4:16:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 4:16:47

Do you enjoy? Do you enjoy their their addition?

SPEAKER_03 4:16:50

I I did. I think they both brought some very like fresh dynamic to the Claire and Owen pairing. Um, I think they needed that kind of, you know, Azia, just I don't know, kind of the take no shit. Like she knows her stuff, like she wants to go help these dinosaurs and Franklin kind of feel for the guy of like he's a little he's a little scared of the dinosaurs. Like he doesn't necessarily want to go. Yeah. But also I think that's kind of relatable. Like, hey, I want to help. Oh no. How am I how did I get signed up to go to the island with the dinosaurs? Oh no. Like, I'm just the IT guy.

unknown 4:17:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:17:31

But no, I thought they they brought a nice, like, fresh feeling to it and like you needed some kind of new, you know. I think it would have suffered, the movie would have suffered a little bit if we didn't have if it was just like Owen and Claire again, and we didn't have those kind of extra characters in there.

SPEAKER_08 4:17:46

Yeah. And I don't yeah, I like the fact that Franklin doesn't change because at the end they say, Are you okay? Nope.

unknown 4:17:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:17:55

I feel like he's the most relatable, like probably how most of us would react if this was actually real life.

SPEAKER_08 4:18:01

Like I'd I'd empty all the bug spray onto my arms before I step foot on Isla Nublar.

SPEAKER_03 4:18:07

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_08 4:18:09

But yeah, I enjoy, I like, I like both of them. I like the fact that she the the kind of backstory for Zia is the fact that she's a paleo-vetinarian who did all of her you know courses just about to go out, and then suddenly uh the park just as you say all goes to hell and she's not she doesn't actually get to go.

SPEAKER_03 4:18:26

Yeah. Also very relatable of like working towards something and and and you know of course this was pre-COVID, but kind of ties into that. Like, oh, we had plans and oops, nope, not gonna go the way we thought it would.

SPEAKER_08 4:18:42

See you next year, yeah. Yeah. Fallen Kingdom will always be remembered, I think, for being the one that blew up the island. You know, taking that from Michael Crichton's ending, even though it's not napalm that destroys it, it's lava. But does that work for you? Do you think I mean, and this is interesting talking about it because of what Rebirth is doing, but do you think that was a good enough reason for this film? Do you think that was the right decision to make?

SPEAKER_03 4:19:08

I like that they brought in the volcano elements, because I do that was something just personally I kind of missed of uh, you know, the the gap from the the novel to the movies. And realistically, you know, like we're based on Hawaii, you know, with the filming and everything, and it makes sense for there to be volcanoes. I I don't know, personally, I think how the eruption was done with them and the timing of the people being on the island, it was a little little much for me, a little corny uh in parts, especially I know my my first viewing I I was kind of taken aback by the ON sequence of him like rolling away from the lava. I'm like, uh, what's going on? What are we doing here?

SPEAKER_08 4:19:55

I quite like that now. I think that and I I think that ties uh maybe I'm just thinking too much about these films, but I I think it ties into because he is very, you know, he's known for his gothic films, darkness, but real strong elements of like slapstick because his I mean that's the reason why he has uh Geraldine chaplain, I think in his film, tie back to that golden age of Holly Hol Hollywood, really, and that is straight out of a chaplain or a Buster Keaton moment. I was thinking, yeah, and plus it feels right for Chris Pratt to do that as a can be the you know comedy actor originally, and that's and watching it this time after just watching Dominion. If you watch it that way around, if you watch Dominion first and then you go back to Fallen Kingdom, you're like, oh, where was any of this stuff, this really fun bits that Owen does, his one-liners, they're really not there at all in Dominion. So I'm I'm glad that his job is just to be a bit of light relief beefcake.

SPEAKER_03 4:20:54

Yeah. Yeah, no, that's that's absolutely true. Um, because yeah, I feel like that would if we didn't have that, uh to your point, it probably would have shifted how uh the tone of that, like it would have just been complete destruction. And of course we we get to the the sadness of you know the brachiosaurus and yeah.

SPEAKER_08 4:21:17

Because it's all I think it's building up all of that fun. It's still because what he needs to do, Bayona, in this film, is to get to that ending where Maisie lets the animals lets all the dinosaurs out.

SPEAKER_03 4:21:28

Right.

SPEAKER_08 4:21:28

So we need to really care about them, to really be invested in them and want them to survive at all costs. And the film does its best to try and put them in peril for the entire running time. So you have them like drowning when they're throwing themselves off the you know, it's and then you have the brachiosaur scene, and it's like all the fun and excitement of trying to get on that boat, and then you see that brachiosaur moment, you're like, that's that that's my childhood burning over there.

SPEAKER_03 4:21:54

You're like, wait, I don't like this anymore. No, yeah, I completely agree with the with the with the dinosaurs. Like, I think that beautifully ties into the ending of Maisie's decision to like let them go, because you couldn't save a lot of the ones on the island. Yeah, and you know, we watched multiple die during that sequence. So yeah, I think that that ties in really well. I was like, okay, well Maisie gets to save, you know, these ones at least, even though we I I I don't I don't hate the Brachiosaurus scene, but I'm forever mad that I they did that to us as fans.

SPEAKER_08 4:22:31

Yeah, and the way that the music is uh a very somber reflection of like the Jurassic Park theme.

SPEAKER_02 4:22:39

That's heartbreaking.

SPEAKER_08 4:22:39

I think uh Jakino goes a little bit overboard in I remember when I talked to Brad, and it's just slowly he understands a little bit by the time Dominion happens, but there's multiple moments during Jurassic Park and The Lost World where there is no music.

SPEAKER_03 4:22:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 4:22:55

And when I was talking to Neil Brand, he's he said to me it's because a cynic would say that the the music isn't trying to make you feel anything other than what you're seeing. So maybe with Fallen Kingdom and I think particularly Fallen Kingdom, there is a constant drive of the music, which is all melodramatic. It's just trying to make you heighten your emotions for absolutely everything. Be scared, yeah, be be sad, you know, all of these things. Yeah, I th I I do like what he does, but I think, yeah, just just dial it back a bit, maybe.

SPEAKER_03 4:23:26

Yeah, yeah. No. Um definitely I feel like, and and this kind of gets back to what we were talking about earlier, is it kind of feels like two different movies. Like once we're at that part where the Brachiosaurus dies, like you know, they're off the island at that point. I feel like you're kind of holding your breath, kind of relieved, like, but it's like where where are we gonna go from here? Like 'cause we know, you know, the movie's what, half over at this point. Like something has to go wrong. You know, I don't know that I necessarily knew they were gonna go into that whole like uh Underground, you know, scene of like selling the dinosaurs. And the the interesting part about that for me was they're not going for as much money as I would figure that they would. Exactly.

SPEAKER_08 4:24:13

Yeah. I remember I like I I don't know much about football, but I know that footballers going right as much more than an than an Allosaurus. So easier.

SPEAKER_03 4:24:22

Yeah. Yeah. Mind-boggling. I'm like, oh, like technically someone, you know, a a normal billionaire could like buy one of these. Uh okay. Like, can we pool our money and buy an allosaurus?

SPEAKER_08 4:24:38

Like, yeah. Sponsor. Yeah. Do you take do yeah. Do you take PayPal? Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_03 4:24:43

I feel like they might.

SPEAKER_08 4:24:45

Like in the They might they were so desperate. Yeah. Just at literally anything. After we have the Brachiosaurus scene and we've got the the crux of the film is all based on that blue surgery scene. Do you think he succeeds in that moment of getting us to really buy into the relationship of Owen and Blue? And because Maisie's watching, they kind of intercut it with Maisie watching Owen raising.

SPEAKER_03 4:25:07

Yeah, I mean, I definitely was emotional during that scene. Cause I think just being like a pet owner, you know, my whole life, and like it's it's kind of relatable where it's like they're they're going through a surgery, you know, it they're in pain. You can't do anything. Regardless if this thing could actually eat your face off, like you're still attached to it. And I think it's probably similar. Not that I am a zookeeper, obviously, but um, you know, I think of like the zookeepers or people in refuges when they, you know, they take in the big tigers and lions and stuff, and that it's like they kind of have a similar relationship, I would think, to how Owen is with Blue, where it's like he's not, you know, it's not the pet, but you still feel for that. I liked seeing uh being able to see Zia too. Um, I think that was helped with the emotional part of like it's not some random person uh you know operating, like we've come to know Zia, know that you know she's she's new at this, but this is kind of her dream, you know. Uh yeah, no, I I think that really helped with the emotional like transfer from uh you know the island to off-island, you know.

SPEAKER_08 4:26:23

Yeah, yeah. Like the he still gets in the kind of squishy elements of so the the blood still spurts out and strikes Franklin in the face.

SPEAKER_03 4:26:32

Poor Franklin. You know, yeah, I know. Of course it would be Franklin, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 4:26:37

And you get the T-Rex moment where they're you know, it's all very practical, it's all very touchy-feely with the dinosaurs, which I really enjoy. And again, I like the Claire has some rather funny moments. There's a bit where just before while they're being attacked by the Baryonyx, and she just shouts and points chair. And I really like the delivery of that line. And I like it when they when they've just she has a really like strong stance, it's just like chair.

SPEAKER_02 4:27:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 4:27:06

And the bit where they've just come out from the T-Rex thing, and she's got her face against the door, like the back of the truck, and Owen's like, please tell me you've got the blood. And she just doesn't turn, she just raises up the big bag of blood next to it. And I just it's those little moments that add the humour or tension, like reliever from the scene. They're not big moments, they don't have to be huge laugh out loud moments, but they're just little character moments. And I think J.A. Biona adds into those sort of things. He knows how how people work in situations due to his other just watching his other films. Yeah. So you were saying about the the underground layer that is what what do you think of the whole idea of making Benjamin Lockwood and tie in with Hammond? Supposedly he what that wasn't the original plan. He was meant to be a new character, no connection to Hammond at all. Does this annoy you as a as a fan? What do what does this do to the canon in your mind?

SPEAKER_03 4:28:02

Um I mean, not really. Uh, it doesn't annoy me that much. I feel like they probably could have done more with it in Dominion, but um, I don't know, maybe this is where supplemental novels would be a fun thing to do and have that, you know, flashback to Lockwood and Hammond's relationship and them building the park or whatever. But no, I mean, I I don't think it's surprising for me that there would be somebody that worked with Hammond, you know? And it's it's kind of a not necessarily bad guys, but like the corporate uh corporate people who start a company together and they have a falling out. It's kind of a you know a very realistic thing. Yeah. You know, I'm like, we introduce this new character and we're supposed to trust him immediately. Like, oh yeah, I want to help with the dinosaurs. Do you?

SPEAKER_08 4:28:58

It's because he's the blokey babe.

SPEAKER_03 4:28:59

Yeah, that's why. He's trying to trick us with the casting.

SPEAKER_08 4:29:03

Yes. Yeah, I don't know. I think I I like how again it it feeds into that pulpy element of it. It's that it's almost like, what do you mean John Hammond's got a secret brother or something? You know, he was he was a twin. It's it's almost a kind of that reveal.

SPEAKER_03 4:29:20

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_08 4:29:21

I think I think James Cromwell's good as good as him, even though he gets very reduced screen time, he's just wheeled off for his bath occasionally and for his medications. And then killed. And then killed, yes. Yes, killed by um Eli Mills. And what do you I think this film does really well actually in the the human villains that we have. Again, not focusing on the fact that the dinosaurs are the ones that, you know, they might kill you or whatever, but this again film needs to make you care about the dinosaurs more, so we need more bad guys and quite politically charged bad guys during the making of this film. What's your take on like Ted Levine as Ken Wheatley and Toby Jones?

SPEAKER_03 4:30:03

Yeah, well, one, I just love the actors, so I was very excited when you know their cast. Ted Levine is amazing, so I was like, I know I'm gonna like him in the role, even though I probably, you know, like odds are we're not gonna like him as a character, which you know turns out to be true. It's like a very realistic thing. These people are just trying to make money off of the dinosaurs however they can, you know, and one of the scenes that always sticks out in my mind is is when uh Ted Levine's character like pulls the the tooth, kind of establishes like, oh, he's he's not one of the good guys.

SPEAKER_08 4:30:41

Like, yeah. I I was reading that Derek Connolly based him on the you remember that dentist in America that went to Africa and killed a load of lions and posted pictures about it. So that was going on while they were writing it, and so that's why he takes the teeth. That's because he's a dentist. So it's this like sick like coming together of the real life and this chemical.

SPEAKER_03 4:31:06

Yeah, and again, like that's it's very realistic, like of what you know, what would happen um if there were dinosaurs, like the these people are still out there, like it's gonna happen. But no, I really enjoyed their characters and um, you know, they had their own motivations, um, you know, and it wasn't just mush mustache twirling like evil villains, you know, like it was a nice like added again with kind of the the um expanding the cast to like bringing in these new people and uh you know bringing in kind of a fresh feel to it.

SPEAKER_08 4:31:41

Yeah. I enjoy uh the fact that Toby Jones chose his own wig and dentures for that for that. It's just such a great like again. I was looking when I first watched it, I was just like, this is too big, this is too much, I can't. And then since watching it, and since watching a load of s schlocky B movies from the 50s and 60s, I'm just like, this is exactly what this is, but with a mammoth budget. And so whatever Bayona's doing, and the fact that I really enjoy all of the kind of Roger Corman, yeah, Edgar Allan Poe things, it feels like that's what they're going for, particularly Poe with the the fact that everything is in a basement and like you know, or uh like Lovecraft, you know, there's there's always something horrible in the basement in one of those books. Right. So talking about the gothic elements, which is clearly there, what's your so do you you like gothic fiction, I take it, yeah?

SPEAKER_03 4:32:39

Oh yeah, absolutely, 100%. Uh is this kind of standout stories for you or oh um well, movie-wise, uh Crimson Peak is one of the newer ones that I've I've loved. Um, but you know, going back, you know, what you're referencing, like there's always something in the basement with Poe. But I love Poe's stuff, you know, going to Frankenstein, Mary Shelley, Dracula. I mean, you know, kind of just anything that's that moody, dark, um, even aspects of like Northanger Abbey by Jane Austen um gets into like that gothic feeling. But yeah, I just I love it. I love it so much. I seek it out. I just like the the vibes of it for for lack of a better terminology.

SPEAKER_08 4:33:26

Do you think that works when you throw in dinosaurs? Do you think Bayona succeeds in taking that gothic architecture and kind of putting it all into the I personally I think it did.

SPEAKER_03 4:33:37

I think the second half of the movie is my favorite of the movie. And I think like if that had been a standalone movie on its own, of just centered around Maisie and you know, she's the main character we know. Well, maybe we don't even know. It could be a a non, you know, we don't know it's a dinosaur in the basement or whatever. But uh, you know, to your point of like, oh, it's this girl, she's in a you know, big house, seems normal, what's going on? And then that like creepy aspect of, you know, there's actually a creature in the basement. And, you know, I just I feel like that kind of gets to um, you know, like we were briefly talking about like Frankenstein, uh, you know, just the the creature, like what is it? And I don't know, I feel like that would have been a really like in my head, that's a really fun, just like gothic standalone movie on its own, um, centered around Maisie. But no, I think it was very fitting to put in, you know, this new dinosaur that they could make it very creepy, you know, because I always think of, and it was of course used as a promotional image, but the the Indoraptor arm, you know, reaching for Maisie.

SPEAKER_08 4:35:00

The Nosferal 2 esque.

SPEAKER_03 4:35:02

Yeah, yeah. It's so good. Like that that's that's what spoke to me about this movie. And I know when when you asked talk about Fallen Kingdom, that's what came to my mind. And so when I had to re-watch it, I was like, oh yeah, the whole first half of this movie happens before we get there. Yeah, because just before we get there, that part is what sticks into my mind.

SPEAKER_08 4:35:21

I was so I finished Frankenstein reading Frankenstein, never read it before because it's even mentioned in the when Jurassic World Rebirth had its first bit in Variety. The opening quote of that article was all from Frankenstein. So it's something that we keep coming back to in this series. And I'm probably thinking too much, but it feels like Maisie and the Indoraptor are both for me like Frankenstein's creature. I think they are two sides of that character. One is the one that wants to be compassionate and wants to fit into the world, which is Maisie. Um we get the revelation that she is a human clone in this film, a big, big swing for this series, but one I think that feels quite earned. Do you think it the twist held up for you when you watched it?

SPEAKER_03 4:36:13

I think it did in in like how they executed it. Like there was a reason that they were cloning Maisie and it was just Maisie. I'm glad they didn't go into like more people clones, um, or you know, I think Jurassic Community has talked about this, but like the the human dinosaur hybrids, like that was obviously kind of I don't know whether you're a fan or not of it, but a fear amongst a lot of people um in the community. But no, I enjoyed it, and I think I enjoyed that aspect of it because I like other Crichton works. Um, like specifically, this was too when um Westworld was still on, and I love Westworld, and uh so it was kind of scratching that itch along with it. But yeah, what what about you? What did you think of the the clone?

SPEAKER_08 4:37:09

Yeah, it's good. I'm kind of watching it now, having seen Dominion, it's such a huge thing for the film, and then we sort of walk back from it in Dominion, we walk away from the scary thing that is human cloning and human genetics, whereas I think Crichton would have really lent into it and not had hundreds of people being cloned, but the idea that that technology is also available, not just dinosaurs being made, but that's that's the that's the kind of thing that they want to stop in in Dominion. I wanted more from Wu. Yeah, and I think reading Frankenstein, he is Frankenstein in this series. And uh when watching uh Dominion and his change um from Fallen Kingdom, what I wanted from the end of Fallen Kingdom is him to run away, essentially, be chased in into the woods by his creations and then have to go on this journey. And maybe at the start of Dominion we find him, and that's the start of Dominion on a boat. Like go full hog, do it. He's on a boat, he's trying to evade capture from people who want his technology. And you can still have the Mosasaur scene and everything like that, and maybe that's why that's how Dodgen gets him, is rescuing him from this situation. I just think in my mind now that is that is set in stone now. I thought it, and in my mind, it definitely I can make it work. Um yeah, BD Wong, call me. We'll we'll we'll we'll work this out. Otherwise, you just have Wu who's just constantly plucked out of situations and manipulated by other people. Just and you again with the relationship between Claire and Owen, we're missing out the really fun bits of the story. They might be the difficult bits, but I think they're the most interesting bits. You know, what what happened when Claire and Owen broke up? What happened when Dr. Wu became Mr. Wu? You know, there's all these little things that are in there, but we don't get the interesting bit of the story, we just get the revelation sometimes. Yeah. And I just wanted a bit more of that gothic nature to spill into Dominion, which didn't happen.

SPEAKER_03 4:39:19

Yeah, I I agree. I think it would have been a little more fun to have Wu do a little more in in the movie.

SPEAKER_06 4:39:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:39:28

And you know, again, I I understand like movies, we've got we've got a limited amount of time to do what they want to do. Yeah. But always going back to why can't we have books that are you know the supplemental material? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know. I think it would be really fun to have like a woo POV, you know, if if this was a book. Um, I'd want to know what he's thinking. Like, how does he get in these situations again and again?

SPEAKER_08 4:39:56

I know. Just like plucked out of the helicopter, imaginally and so from Dominion, so from Jurassic World, he's sent from there to the layer of uh Lockwood Manor. How does he get there? That's where he's dumped off. Yeah, what's that happened about? And then suddenly in Dominion, he's in Biosyn Valley. And he's like, why where does like is it he's just being plucked out and he's just appearing on the scene in all these different people in all these different places, and I I feel like he never gets his true moment apart from maybe the end of Dominion a little bit, but I just wanted him to like have a moment where he screams and shouts at the people who have like a dodgen or something. I uh you know, just has that freak out moment.

SPEAKER_03 4:40:40

Yeah, no, it would have been uh obviously kind of a departure from the um what the story was, but I think it would have been cool too, like if we could have a woo be like I'm gonna go destroy and delete all of this data and all of the, you know, yeah, um, because I mean he would know how to do it and you know, in a more elegant way than like mentally, you know, kind of destroy the system. Like, oh, I'm gonna go, you know, delete, mess up, mess up the DNA code, whatever, you know, how whatever's in the um, you know, their database for creating dinosaurs. I think that would have been a cool, like, let's try and sabotage my own work because I'm pissed at these people and I need to get out of here.

SPEAKER_08 4:41:27

Yeah, like like in Frankenstein where the creature demands a mate to be made and he just destroys all of his own work. Yeah. And yeah, I think that's a really good idea. I think that would be that would be I always I was when I was talking to Steven about this, was like the fact that somebody needed to sacrifice themselves at the end of Dominion. Somebody needed to go. And yeah, he said about Malcolm and I said about Wu being the one to, but yeah, that tying into maybe him going running back in at the end of Dominion and being left there, smashing up his own stuff and his fate is maybe Yeah, a kind of go down with the ship kind of thing.

SPEAKER_03 4:42:03

Like it. Yeah, I think that would have been cool. Yeah. And kind of added more to that like that gothic feel of like the creator he needs to do something. Like what what happened?

SPEAKER_08 4:42:15

Yes, yeah. A big return in this film is bringing back Ian Malcolm. When you first watched it, did you understand that they were two separate um courtroom scenes? Because when I first watched it, I was just like, he's sitting in the same place. It's the same I don't know. I just wanted a bit more, again, a bit more of an introduction to the scene. Him walking in, a bit more of a dramatic entrance or uh either end of the film, really.

SPEAKER_03 4:42:40

I I agree. I don't like it was nice to have him back and have someone who had experience with the dinosaurs and the island and everything being there and you know, being like, nah, they have their chance, like it's fine. So I think that worked better than like just a random, you know, or just the people that were there talking about it, and it was just you know, a bunch of random people. But yeah, I feel like some more kind of introduction, because I feel like it was almost, you know, going from yes, we know we're in a Jurassic movie, but we start out with the amazing prologue and having you know, diving right in there and then switching to a courtroom drama scene or like yeah, and that terrible BBC news thing.

SPEAKER_08 4:43:25

Yeah, just I I really dislike that and I dislike the now this at the start.

SPEAKER_03 4:43:31

Oh, yeah. I'm I'm okay with the now this.

SPEAKER_08 4:43:34

Um I think I I think particularly when you take out the T-Rex attacking cinema, yeah, and then you start with, I just feel like I wanted to see the stuff that was going on in those clips. I wanted to be there and doing all that sort of stuff, but I don't like it when people tell me what, you know, just give me a card to read just before you go in and watch it. It's the same thing. Yeah. Just give me a couple of things.

SPEAKER_03 4:43:57

Have have the Star Wars scroll at the beginning. Like, here's where we are. Yeah. Yeah. So I I like that there was discussion of you know the destruction of the island and like should we save them? But I didn't necessarily like that courtroom scene. Like, I think it could have been done a little bit differently. Um, you know, like you said, maybe have a dramatic entrance from Malcolm because if anybody's gonna have a dramatic entrance, it's gonna be Malcolm like walking in late or something, and you know.

SPEAKER_08 4:44:29

Yeah, I just if it felt tacked on, but it was in the first draft that they did, it was one of the and it was there all the time, and yeah, it feels like you just throwing this character in. And I said maybe they didn't want to go down, maybe they thought it was a little bit too fan service-y if you kind of build him up too much, but come on, we we want that. Like I think I would buy that, I want that sort of thing from my characters that I enjoy watching. I want them to have a bit of bit of an entrance, please.

SPEAKER_03 4:44:58

Yeah, yeah. And I think too, when but the stills of that came out before the movie, like I think we're all trying to figure out who else was in the courtroom scene. Like if there were more people behind, and we're like, does that does that look like Tim? Like yeah, it's that Billy Brennan, right? Um, of course, no, but uh yeah, I don't know. I think that a little more it could have been done with that scene. Like, might as well. I mean, we're doing the fan service, we obviously did fan service in Dominion. Might as well like leaned into it a little bit harder and and had maybe Billy Brennan be in the back or get Vince Vaughn back, you know.

SPEAKER_08 4:45:40

I always yeah, I always thought like when they have the clips at the start of I wanted a bit more of the the the people from the other films really in um Jurassic World Dominion. If it was me, I'd have Enid Oklahoma and they're having a barbecue, and suddenly it's um it's Eric. He's off, I don't know, he's just graduated, and suddenly some Pteranodons come and attack their little their little barbecue. And that would have cost far too much to get uh Ta Leone and all of them back in for that one one shot. But again, supplementary material. We we we we can write this now.

SPEAKER_03 4:46:19

Yeah, and I mean that's uh I think something that I'm glad not only we got to explore with the marketing, but that I got to be a part of with uh the Dominion marketing. Because I know that was I feel like we all wanted more of those little moments in like the real world. And so I think it was a great play on Universal's part to actually bring some of us fans in and be able to write some of those things. And I pushed hard for JP3 stuff to be included. We do have some uh you know Kirby hints here and there, um, like hidden in the stuff. So I think it's it led to a good spot. I think Fallen Kingdom could have had a little bit more of it.

SPEAKER_08 4:47:07

How was he working on that?

SPEAKER_03 4:47:09

Oh, it was so fun. Um like peak Jurassic fan. Like, I'm I'm never gonna have anything cooler than that. But no, it was it was really great to be able to get to take, you know, all of our fan ideas and wants and go, okay, let's expand on this. What would people actually be doing if there were dinosaurs in the real world? And you know, of course, universal guiding everything, um, and the whole team working with them. But I feel like as the fans, we got to go, hey, can we do this? Can we have a callback to this? Can we have the you know, JP3 Raptors? And of course they reined us in on some things, but um it was really fun to to be able to expand upon that. Where we, you know, I think a lot of fans felt like maybe Fallen Kingdom was lacking in some of those things and like those end clips, you know, which have I feel like have spanned a lot of um like uh Tom. Uh I think you talked to him previously, yeah, with his uh the Tales from the Jurassic, you know, kind of a spin-off of all of those, those kind of things that the fans wanted. So yeah, it was it was a great time. Um, and I'm glad we got to have those like additional stories and that that marketing that Universal actually put effort in um into that marketing for for the fans.

SPEAKER_08 4:48:35

Yeah, so big. I remember yeah, it was you know what it was for me. I was look, you know, following the Dino Tracker and everybody's like YouTube videos about what they'd seen on there, and it I think some of those clips were like more satisfying than some of the actual dinosaur moments that we that I watched in Dominion eventually. So yeah, it was a big bit of work that you and all all the team did, and it was yeah, very much.

SPEAKER_03 4:49:00

Yeah, I know it's that's that's really nice to hear. Yeah, because yeah, I think I think it was as a Jurassic fan, like that's what I want. I want to see the dinosaurs just being dinosaurs. Like, I think that's yeah, kind of um, you know, again why I'm excited about uh rebirth is we're getting to you know, these dinosaurs are just out there by themselves now, and we get to see them just being dinosaurs and animals, you know, protecting their nest in in, you know, the clips.

SPEAKER_06 4:49:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:49:32

So yeah, no, it was a really great to explore, and I still am mind-boggled that I got to be a part of it in some way, but uh no, it was a great time, and yeah, I I hope I hope Universal does the similar things like to expand on the lore in the future.

SPEAKER_08 4:49:51

Yeah, yeah. I think Colin was instrumental in that, uh, from what from what I hear. So yeah, we got him to thank for all the expanded stuff that happened. And yeah, I I really hope that we get that we do get more. I'd love more books. I would really like more books.

SPEAKER_03 4:50:06

I would love books. I loved Claire's book, uh, The Evolution of Claire. I think that was fantastic. And Steven and I have have talked about that, how great that was, and just being able to see, you know, again, it's the supplemental material, like in between things, and like woo was there, and you know, like how Claire went through all of this shit on the island before she actually, you know, worked there as a you know, in the corporate. But yeah, no, I would I would always love more books in whatever way they could, you know, come about, whether it's bridging all these random gaps or like backstories. But you know, I'm a book lover, so I'm I will never say no to more books.

SPEAKER_08 4:50:53

Yeah, me too. I don't I don't I don't even mind about the quality of them. I just want those kind of like little tie-in books that they do for so many films. And yet Jurassic always gets less than a lot of people.

SPEAKER_03 4:51:03

Yeah, and I think they could take a chapter from some other licensing like uh Star Wars books and um lesser, probably lesser known to the science, but Critical Role, they do like supplemental novels and they get new authors for each one. So they we could do that and have a different vibe. We could have a horror book, uh, you know, and get a horror writer and then have more of a we could have a romance Jurassic, you know. I mean, yeah, they could do whatever they wanted to if they wanted to like bridge bridge that gap into more supplemental stuff.

SPEAKER_08 4:51:38

Do you think it tied do you think with what we get in Dominion, do you think Dominion is a satisfying conclusion given where this film ends?

SPEAKER_03 4:51:47

Uh yes. With caveats, I guess. Um, I mean, because I don't I never really view Dominion as a final anything. Like, yes, it was the end of the trilogy, but you know, they're not gonna stop making Jurassic stuff. I did, you know, as I think people are probably divided on the bringing people uh, you know, the original three back and blending that in. But I think it was a nice kind of blend of callback to with the movies and then ending kind of the Claire Owen arc. Um saying we had this, you know, we had this fun trilogy. Well, maybe not so fun at sometimes because it made us cry in the theater, but um still it's uh you know, we had our trilogy, it kind of I feel like it wrapped it up quite well. And you know, the dinosaurs are are out, they're they're with humans, your imagination goes from there, I feel like. Um, and I think for me, stories don't have to have like that a hundred percent, like everything is wrapped up at the end, and leaving some of that to our imagination is is sometimes better than having a hundred percent of the answers. But yeah, I don't know how you feel about it.

SPEAKER_08 4:53:10

Yeah, I think conclusions are always difficult. That's why I really like middle films in trilogy sometimes, is because they get to do all the setup for whatever massive conclusion there is, but they don't have to worry about what that conclusion is. And sometimes I yeah, as you the conclusion sometimes is the least interesting part of a story. It's the setup, it's the journey, it's all of that thing. So getting to the end, you know, there's unthink there's very few stories where the final one is like your favourite in there. And I'm in thinking like Lord of the Rings, like the Two Towers, uh ends with that epic battle. Uh that was just such I just love that film, you know, compared to the other two. And it was just never gonna the same with Dominion, it was never gonna be the big conclusion with the cast announcements that it kind of was saying that it was, that it was saying that it was the very big end of an era and all that sort of stuff. And then you see the film and you're like, uh somebody that different the uh the the poster quotes for the actual people who are making the film sometimes. Oh yeah. Yeah, I like the fact that at the end of Fallen Kingdom we get these uh brief moments amazingly shot as well, the whole film. But I love the you know that it it it ends uh at it's like sunset and you get blue overlooking I think it's so I think it's the same location as in ET.

SPEAKER_03 4:54:30

Yes, yeah, yeah. That was a nice little nod there.

SPEAKER_08 4:54:35

Yeah. He must get fed up when people watch. I remember watching Ready Player One and they when they showed the first cut to him, they were just he's his note was can you take out more uh references to me, please? I can't there's too much. Too much. I can't like you can have you can have the T-Rex and something else he said, but I can't all be about me. But when you're dealing with Spielberg, you would want you'd just be like like even the run bit when Owen's running out and it's clearly from Indiana Jones and you just like I don't know, like trying to I mean you'd want to impress him, wouldn't you? You'd want to impress the teacher that is Steven Spielberg. Yeah I would I mean I'd just I I'd go out and just remake like Raiders of the Lost Ark, just shot for shot. Shot for shot. This is not the this is not the script we gave you. I know, but just just trying to show you how much I like you.

SPEAKER_03 4:55:31

No, and I think it's it's hard though, too, because like yes, you want to impress Steven and you know he's in in the Jurassic World on obviously. But so many of his movies are what people love about movies, like they're iconic movies, they're like, oh, they all happen to be Steven Spielberg at the end of the day. Like, yeah, yeah, you know, Indiana Jones could be somebody else, but it's not. So if we want to make those references starry Steven, like we're gonna have Indiana Jones, Jaws, E.T., Jurassic, yeah, yeah, all your big things. But um, no, I think it it kind of uh two plays into just how iconic Steven Spielberg is in our you know movie world. That's uh it's hard not to have those callbacks and um you know visual like references in your head. You're like, is that is that does that look like that? Whether or not people intend it to be. Um which obviously, like to your point, the the the scene with blue at the end was obviously you know the ET uh for um purpose. But um Yeah. Yeah, people people don't necessarily know that though, too. So it wasn't like an over you know bash you in the head with here's you know E.T.

SPEAKER_08 4:56:48

in the background or who Although I think E.T. is again in the room with Maisie when the Indoraptor and there is a little E.T. that is, you know, toy that is flying around the room.

SPEAKER_03 4:57:00

Yep, 100%. Yeah. Just yeah. No, I I kind of like those though when they're like, oh yeah, wait, you're in the same universe, like Yes. Yeah. Maisie Maisie would love ID.

SPEAKER_08 4:57:14

Amazing. Well, I'd just like to say thank you so much for for joining me today. It's been it's been really fun to talk about this film. I think everything that this film tried to do is now slightly being walked back with rebirth. It was meant to be the one to destroy the island. Also the human clone element slightly disappeared in Dominion. So it kind of stands by itself, which I think is is quite nice. I think and yeah, I I I thoroughly enjoy it as a as a thrill ride of a film. Um, I was wondering if you had any projects or anything you'd like to tell us about Jurassic Wise.

SPEAKER_03 4:57:46

Always Jurassic Outpost. I will be at San Diego Comic-Con next month. So while we don't have anything listed yet officially, if Jurassic's gonna be there in any capacity, we will be on the ground ready to cover whatever. Probably Mattel will have a you know some big display like they always do. So um yeah, just Jurassic Outpost. We're always trying to keep everyone updated on things.

SPEAKER_08 4:58:10

So um and where where where can people find you online if indeed you want them to?

SPEAKER_03 4:58:16

Uh yeah, no, you can find me on Instagram. I'm Samantha Joe8. Or, you know, like I said, Jurassic Outpost in both places. Um I talk a lot about books as well as dinosaurs.

SPEAKER_08 4:58:27

So my huge thanks to Samantha for talking to me about Fallen Kingdom. I really hope this episode has made you think twice about that film and maybe want to go and watch it again and see it in a different light. Maybe lean in and in just let go of yourself and enjoy the pulpy elements that it has to offer. And also a film within the world trilogy that really puts the dinosaurs front and centre with some amazing animatronics. I've I've really grown to love this film. And but next week I can't believe this, but I'm actually at the end of talking about all of the films. We've reached it. We've reached uh 2022's uh Jurassic World Dominion. And I can't think of a better way to wrap up all of these episodes that I've been doing than talking to the two people who which uh back in 2014 I first heard on the Jurassic Cast podcast and their interview with Colin Trevaro that sort of uh leads me now to doing this podcast for Rebirth. It's uh uh uh uh it's a really great conversation. I love talking to both Jack Ewins and Sam Phillips. If you like what you're listening to, please remember to leave a review and a rating. It really does help this podcast find more people. Go and follow me over on Road to Rebirth Pod. I've still got some amazing guests to bring you, even though we're at the end of the films. My review of Rebirth will be coming. We're so close, people. So close. But for now, I'll just say thank you very much for listening and goodbye.

SPEAKER_04 5:00:14

I'm all in. I don't e I don't even care if it fundamentally retcons things or ruins things. I'm just like I'm I'm I'm the fan again. I'm a little eight-year-old going there. I absolutely am so excited.

SPEAKER_08 5:00:26

Hello and welcome back to Road to Rebirth, and we are at the final film of the Jurassic World saga, Jurassic World Dominion, which released in 2022. Billed as the conclusion to the Jurassic franchise, Dominion brought together the old and the new. But did it feel like a true ending? Or was it more of a pivot point? Today we're talking about both the theatrical version and also the extended cut, including the stunning prologue and also uh much needed breathing room, I think, for the story. To help me unpack all of this, I'm thrilled to be joined by two awesome guests. They have been officially involved with creating some amazing viral marketing campaigns for the Jurassic World movies. They also created and hosted the much missed by me podcast, Jurassic Cast, interviewing cast members and also securing one of the first interviews with Colin Trevaro after he was announced as the director for Jurassic World. Please welcome to the show Jack Ewens and Sam Phillips. Thank you so much for joining me today. How are you both?

SPEAKER_01 5:01:32

Thanks for having us. Thank you. Yeah, no, feeling good.

SPEAKER_08 5:01:35

Good. Sam, coming to you first, I was wondering whether you could give me a bit of background about how when you and you and Jack first got together and started everything.

SPEAKER_01 5:01:43

Yeah, I mean, we're going back a few years now, aren't we? So it's been I mean, it's been what, like eight, nine years since we even recorded the last podcast, like um when we was doing that. But I think the way it came about was I was oblivious to anything Jurassic Park, like in terms of like fan bases and things like that, an online presence. Um sort of like going back to the the late noughties to around about 2010, 2011. You know, I I always thought of myself as a Jurassic Park fan, and I thought I was the only one. Um you know, so and then I think it came around about the point of I know it was the the re-release of Jurassic Park in around 20, was it 2010, 2020? 2010, I think.

SPEAKER_08 5:02:26

Was it 2011?

SPEAKER_01 5:02:27

It was like the digital remaster, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Actually, around about that time, just before it came out, I was I don't know why. I I rode my bike to work one day, even though I could drive, and I I hit the curve, fell off my bike, and broke my elbow. I couldn't do anything, I couldn't work, I couldn't do anything. And then um, so you know, I was just puttering around doing nothing, and then that film came out and I went and watched it, the the digital re-release, and I was like, oh, you know, man, I really miss Jurassic Park. And I was I was at that time I was into like the Kevin Smith podcast and things like that. So I was like, you know what, I'm gonna record my own podcast about Jurassic Park. And the first episode was just like me just talking all sorts of nonsense, and then I sort of went down this rabbit hole and discovered like there was an online community that was like JP Legacy and all of that, all of that back in the day. And um I did a I did an uh a few episodes, it was like one every nine months or something like that, and I think it was like a couple two or three in. Um I stumbled across Jack's YouTube channel or Jack Evans' YouTube channel. That's the ongoing joke because of the whole episode I was calling him Jack Evans. And and um and and I think I just reached out to you, didn't I? And I was like, Oh, I'll do this podcast. Uh, would you like to come on it?

SPEAKER_04 5:03:43

And uh and I'd listened to it previously, hadn't I? I'd listen, I'd because I looked up, I was going for a bit of a podcast listening phase, and I just looked up to Jurassic Park podcast, and literally the only one I could find outside of like film review podcast review, like Jurassic Park 1993 review or whatever, the only one actually just talking about the franchise as a whole as a fan was Sam's one at the time. Now there's like loads, including this one. So it's like, yeah, back in the day, it's just one.

SPEAKER_01 5:04:09

Yeah, and that's what I mean. It was uh it was it was uh way, way lower quality than anything you see now as well. It was just me like almost with like a tape recorder and uh plugging it into like this really old crappy laptop I had.

SPEAKER_08 5:04:24

So I it was just you hear uh hearing you say that you know you thought that you were the only Jurassic Park fan. I can remember when I first found the Jurassic Cast podcast, it was just about I was on my lunch break, and I did exactly that. I just searched Jurassic in my in in like the app and it came up with it. And I was like, oh my god, there's a Jurassic Park podcast. And they're English. I can't I can't believe I can Yeah, so that was just my way in. I just it was just such a I I'd kind of seen the on like Dan's JP3 page, I'd sort of read the forums, but I'd never really interacted with anything. But I was yeah, just discovering your podcast was such a great, great high.

SPEAKER_01 5:05:07

Yeah, I think that like finding um that point when I searched out was like the only like the second time ever that I'd searched Jurassic Park online. The first time was I remember being around a friend's house, this was like '96 when uh the Jurassic Park The Ride was first opening in uh Universal Hollywood, and we must have spent like four hours just downloading this QuickTime video, which was just like a 10-second edit of the ride. Yeah, that's what I mean. I think for me, and I I think those like yourself probably listen to the podcast know that I was not a big fan at all of Jurassic Park 3. So kind of I just I didn't stop liking the series, it just kind of like was it was like uh Toy Story, you know, when he uh Andy puts Woody on the shelf, you know. It was kind of like that for me until sort of like that time when I watched the uh remaster.

SPEAKER_08 5:05:57

And Jack, how did you go from being a fan of a series to working on them? Like how how how did that feel at that moment?

SPEAKER_04 5:06:05

It was like a series of moments, really. Well, there wasn't well like one well, a series of one specific moments. Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It wasn't one specific moment, it's quite a few. It was weird. I remember like when because me and Tim were doing the website, you know, the Patel Corp one, yeah, which was like based on the leak name and and all that. And I'm sure listeners, I hope you know what I'm talking about. I'm gonna be a bit vague because the story's quite long, but I don't want to go into it all. And Tim had met me through listening to us on the podcast, interviewing Colin. So that's how like you know, we'd we'd got Colin on the podcast because we'd done the magical sentence of like, come on and talk about Jurassic. No spoilers, we just want to know why you want this job. And that was it. Like, we don't want to talk about like what you're gonna do for the film, but like just why Jurassic. But yeah, so we're doing the making this Patel website, and it was getting, you know, fans were talking about it, and we just thought, you know, it's a fun little project. But I was working at the Empire Cinema in Leicester Square at the time, and I got a job there because I I wanted a job there, and I eventually got one because that was where all the premieres were. Yes, yeah. I was anticipating Jurassic Park 4 that had been announced to have its premiere there. Obviously, it never did. You got their job in 2004. I'd have been even if I didn't get the job, like honestly, I'd have been I'd have been at that cinema, like Jesus.

SPEAKER_08 5:07:26

It's a long time planning.

SPEAKER_04 5:07:27

Yeah, I I just thought, oh, they always have the premieres there because I'd been to the Prometheus premiere, like on the on the outside, like just never been to a hot movie premiere, and I knew I was a big I'm a big alien fan, so Prometheus was having its premiere there. So I was like, I'll go down there. And that was like crazy. And I thought I need to work in that cinema because if Jurassic Park 4 has its premiere, it's gonna be here. Working there and then doing the Patel stuff. I'm sitting there standing, standing at the entrance, ripping tickets for people to come in, and my phone buzzes in my pocket, and I look down and I just see this email from uh this guy called. Called Dylan Bridges, who's Jeff Bridges' nephew. He was the head of yeah, he's like the head of digital marketing at the time. I think he's like way higher up now. I was like, Dylan Bridges, who's that? And then and it was like an introduction, and then I read it and then I put it back in my pocket and I was like, that can't be real. That's gotta be someone like messing. Someone's found out we've been working on this website, and like and it's like, right, we'll screw with Jack and two, so we'll send him this. And then I kept reading it, and then down at the bottom I had all these like little logos of Universal Ambly and all this sort of stuff. And I was just like, This looks really official. If this is fake, this is a really good fake. But anyway, then I replied, and then he sent me a some contact details, and I went back to him, and then I just verified it. I was like, Dylan Bridges, Universal. I found him on uh I can't remember, it might have been LinkedIn, but I don't even know if that was around at the time. It was something like that. And I just remember calling my mum after work, just being like, Oh my god, got her foot in the door, I don't know how he wants to meet. So anyway, yeah, that's that's where it sort of began, and then obviously when we got deeper into the rabbit hole, we met back up with Colin, and then that re-circled background to him coming on our podcast, and he knew me from that. And it was introduced to Tim. And then obviously, when we brought Sam and Sam on for the dinosaur protection group for Fallen Kingdom, and it was like you know, bringing it all full circle.

SPEAKER_08 5:09:19

So amazing. They must have just been scouring the net for all of these all of these people and just trying to put something together for it.

SPEAKER_04 5:09:27

I think it was like it was all Colin. Okay. Colin had an eye for the fandom, and obviously, as many fans out there know, he's he was very much online, like especially on Twitter. And he knew he was because he's a fan, like all of us, but he he'd obviously was a film director as well at the same time, but he was definitely was a Jurassic fan, and so he was within the circle. So he knew that getting the deep fans involved to be like help work on the lore and stuff, that was a risk, a stu a risk to the studio, but it was all him uh instrumental in getting us involved and and and giving us the freedom that we had to do what we did. I do miss, I know we're jumping ahead to rebirth, I do miss some sort of online presence with with the director, because it makes all the difference, I think, with fans that you can just directly talk to him.

SPEAKER_08 5:10:18

It's been very different. I mean, we can talk about that. Like, what what is your excitement levels, both of you, for for rebirth? Now that you're because I take it are you involved in any as aspect of this film at all?

SPEAKER_04 5:10:30

Not no, not at this point, no. Like honestly, when Colin has gone and on to do other things, yeah, they've changed in-house and we're still in contact with Universal. Like, we have been talking uh even up to this year about potential stuff for the future and stuff, but nothing's nothing's set in stone. I can't say any more than that. Like, yeah, so it's like, but in terms of rebirth's marketing, no, we're not we're not involved with that one. I'll let Sam, I'll let you go because I I want to talk about rebirth a little bit, but I'll let you uh well yeah, I mean it's it's different.

SPEAKER_01 5:11:01

I mean, Jack can back me up on this one. It's been a long time since we have been fans, you know, been in the fancy looking forward to a Jurassic Park film, which you know is it it's sad not being involved, but it's also really exciting as well to be back not knowing anything and just looking forward to it. But yeah, there's lots of things I'm seeing, and I'm like, although I've kind of been out of the loop on a lot of stuff, you know, I'm just dipping in and out, and there's a lot of stuff I'm seeing. I'm like, oh, that's cool. And then there's uh a lot of stuff where I'm like, well, that looks a little bit um funky, but um what's the funky stuff? Um I don't really want to be bashing it, but you know, it's just you know, like the the just the just the like the mutatons and things like that. I'm a bit like mmm, they could be interesting. It just it yeah, I don't again I don't want to be negative, but a lot of it feels more like you know, that Jurassic Park, was it the tooth? Was it the raw thrills arcade game? It feels more like the movie adaptation of that. So but hey, you know, I hope it's good, Jack.

SPEAKER_04 5:11:58

I'm going into rebirth not knowing what's gonna happen in a Jurassic film, and that for me personally has not happened since I was 12 years old going in to watch Jurassic Park 3. It's so exciting. Like, I I'd say I'm the complete opposite of Sam. I'm all in on this one in terms of like I don't think anything's funky. I'm all in. I don't eat I don't even care if it fundamentally on things or ruins things. I'm just like I'm I'm I'm the fan again. I'm a little eight-year-old going in. I absolutely am so excited for this. I think the the mutatons, I mean, they just look like dinosaurs. If there was a di if they gave it an actual dinosaur name and said it was a dinosaur, no one would know any different. That's my opinion on it. But but the distortus Rex thing that looks insane, and I think the first trailer I was a little bit like that design looks naff when it's like the smoke. Yeah, but now they've they've definitely tweaked it since then.

SPEAKER_08 5:12:49

And it's there's a lot of tweaking going on between those two trailers a lot, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:12:53

And I think the final film is gonna be tweaked even more so. And I'm and as a big alien fan, there's loads in this film that looks alien coded. Yeah, like the design of the scientific research base, the the sort of retro futuristic computer consoles, the distorted Rex itself looks like the xenomorph. So, like I can't help but like it. I just hope that there is this part of me that's like when they say in the line in the trailer, which I I don't know if it's gonna play out like it does in the final film, when they're like, This is the ri the original research facility of the Jurassic Park. That's where I'm like, okay, now you're making me question everything. Because I'm like, it it can't be for the original Jurassic Park, that makes no sense because that was easy to saw now. What the that was written by Coop as well. So and Crite, I it could just be a trailer line, really, couldn't it? I wonder if she's like, this was the original research facility for the Jurassic Park, and then someone's like, no, no, this was for the new park, and that's it. Like, and that's and as they've like cut that last bit out. I'm I'm looking at like the in the second trailer, there's like the the the lab back in the day, and I know in the Empire article, David Kerb and then and the article was saying like it's set 17 years before the film set, which would place it what in 2010 somewhere else. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. However, I'm looking at these computer monitors and stuff, and I'm like, is it 17 years before the park opened? Jurassic World?

SPEAKER_06 5:14:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:14:19

Is it meant or Jurassic Park? Is it like, is it is that what they mean? Because it's a bit vague, because the computer monitors are really they're not flat screen, they're not touch screen, they're all clicky buttons and all this sort of stuff. So yeah, I'm gonna this is what I love. Like I haven't been in this sort of position in a long time. So all the speculation's been fun. Although the trailers are now starting to reveal so much that I've I've dipped out of social media.

SPEAKER_08 5:14:41

And it it's the quandary that I'm getting to now, running this podcast up until the release date, keeping myself active online, but also not wanting to spoil this as the fan, and the reason why I set up this podcast in the first place. It's a fine balance. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:14:56

Are you excited for it, Roland?

SPEAKER_08 5:14:57

Yeah, massively. Uh yeah. I mean, I'm a huge Gareth Edwards fan. You know, I I remember going to see monsters at the cinema, going there, watching it, and just being like, he made this in his bedroom, sort of thing. This is incredible. And the idea of him and all the stuff that he did with Godzilla, which I love. I remember sitting there and watching Godzilla and thinking, my god, if Jurassic World or whatever Jurassic 4 is, is going to be like this, I'm I'm good, I'm really, I'm really on board. So yeah, I think he's definitely the right eye to bring to it. And I'm imagining that the the the tweaks that we're seeing, it is down to Gareth and Gareth's input on actually the creature design, wanting to get the special effects bang on and the physics of it all right to feel that weight. Yeah, that that the shot of the in the second trailer of the T-Rex entering the water is just it's one of my favourite shots from the entire franchise.

SPEAKER_04 5:15:47

Like that, as soon as I saw that waddling into the water after the boat, I was just like, oh my god, the look the visuals of the just that alone is just Jurassic fruit and through. You can't get any more Jurassic than that. It's just so daunting, isn't it? It's um it's yeah, it's dreading. Straight cut from Crichton. Yeah, you can't you can't get any more Jurassic than that. It's like yeah. I got a funny um little circle back to my job at Empire Cinema. When I was working there, they did a the the first ever UK screening of Gareth Edwards Godzilla there. Um and my boss knew I was a big Jurassic fan because I was asking him, like, are we gonna have the premiere? And he's like, I'll find out, I'll find out. And then I was like, Oh, I like Godzilla as well. Like, are we doing that? And he was like, No, but he's like, But we are holding the first ever UK screening of it for the press to do their reviews, like all the big magazines and everything. He's like, Do you want to get in? So I was like, Yeah. So I actually went to that at the Empire Cinema.

SPEAKER_06 5:16:42

Ah, amazing.

SPEAKER_04 5:16:43

And I was wearing a Godzilla t-shirt. Everyone else was in like suits and all they like, they were in like you know, their professional journalist outfits on there. I definitely stuck out like a sore thumb. I wasn't there with any notepads, nothing, like literally nothing. I just sat cheering all the way through. And I watched it and I was like, This film is insanely good. And I was like, the only my only issue with the film was how dark it was towards the end, and I'm really hoping that Gareth Edwards' night scenes in this film are better, and I think because he's shooting on film, it will be. But that was my only complaint.

SPEAKER_08 5:17:15

And that was his second film, you know. I know Godzilla was number two. Well, like Colin was you know, that number two for him was Jurassic World. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:17:24

Is it yeah? It's just I can't wait. Can't wait for rebirth. Really excited. But yeah, I've ducked out of social media, can't be dealing with seeing like it's not just seeing spoilers, it's seeing the same visuals over and over and over again because then you desensitize to it. So like that T-Rex wading into the water, I loved it. I'm trying not to watch it like a lot because I don't want to like see it too much.

SPEAKER_01 5:17:46

I think we said this, didn't we, back in um like the Dominion when they were doing the sort of the same market in push of like TV spot, TV spot, TV spot, TV spot, like with new stuff every single day. I think we I even said to you back then, like, I really feel sorry for the fans who are having a lot of stuff like sport for them and you know having these like really cool vigils, di like the excitement of them diluted for them. Yeah, I think it it's it's hard for fans to kind of turn off resist trying to watch all that stuff because even now I'll see like something pop up on Twitter and I'm like uh no.

SPEAKER_08 5:18:19

Yeah, I think Fallen Kingdom was the worst for me, which I it's I what I what I like about the two trailers that we've had, I can't put the story together really. I've kind of got the idea of dinosaurs and all that sort of like big action moments that are gonna happen, but I don't know which point things are gonna happen because my mind, you know, as a film fan or whatever, I'm trying to piece together, you know, just naturally putting story beats together in my head, which for Fallen Kingdom, I think if I once I'd watched all of the marketing campaign for like the trailers and stuff and the little TV spots, I was like, okay, this happens, this, this, and this. And so when I went and sat in the cinema, I was like, I know exactly how this film's gonna play out.

SPEAKER_04 5:18:59

I just want to go on record to say that even though we worked on Jurassic World Fallen Kingdom's marketing, we did the viral marketing, yeah, we had nothing to do with the trailer, and I I even though those trailers are beautifully edited outside like if you take it away from spoiling the movie, they're beautifully edited trailers, but they were it was like I was biting my fist, like, what are you doing? You're showing literally everything, and it was like painful, and I really feel like and the same in some regards for Dominion. I feel like that by showing so much in the trailers, it it it preempted people to not enjoy the film as much as they obviously uh otherwise would have. I think that like some opinions were there was no real surprises, and like when it came to any surprises that were left, they're already they're already taken out of it. So, not that they would I'm saying people would actually change their mind, but they would have gone in and had a different experience.

SPEAKER_08 5:19:56

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Um so yeah, let's let's get on to Dominion. And I was wondering, Jack, whether you could give us a synopsis for it.

SPEAKER_04 5:20:04

Yes. Four years after the destruction of Isla Nublar, Biosyn operatives attempt to track down Matty Lockwood while Dr. Ellie Sattler investigates a genetically engineered swarm of giant locusts. Sounds like a great movie. Is that the IMDB movie? That's the IMDB one. Someone's gone in and changed it so they're not hiding what the film was about.

SPEAKER_08 5:20:27

Wow, incredible. So, Sam, what was your first impression when you sat down and watched Dominion? Where were you? What was yeah, what were the thoughts that went through your head?

SPEAKER_01 5:20:35

Well, we um Colin invited us, didn't he, to is it uh Pinewood Studios like a year before the film came out? So this was what June 2021 to go and watch like an assembly like a early assembly cut or the first assembly cut with a it was like a room full of this was it the sound editors and sound engineers and all of that, which was just mind blowing because we didn't know, did he? Just invited, like he sent you an email.

SPEAKER_04 5:21:03

I was chatting to him, I was just chatting to him in emails, and then he was like, Oh, I'm showing you a screen. Do you want to come? I've got like six tickets, bring some friends. And I was like, Alright. So I took load of you, didn't we?

SPEAKER_01 5:21:14

Yeah, so we so we went up there and yeah, sitting in the John Barry Theatre at um Pinewood Studios and watching like the the first cut of Jurassic World Dominion a year before it came out was yeah, it was that was the experience we had. So, you know, that's that was a yeah, if you if you're gonna have a great first time watching it, that was the one. Yeah, well obviously we had a different experience than most with it, so you know that kind of rose tints it for us a little bit, um being in that experience. But for us, the the the version that we watched was pretty much you know 95% of what the extended edition was is, wouldn't you agree, Jack?

SPEAKER_04 5:21:54

Or yeah, it didn't have I think the only real big difference is it didn't have the Cretaceous opening. Yeah, oh yeah, no, it didn't have that. It opened directly with the T-Rex attacking the or walking through the drive-in theatre, yeah, which is really cool. It was a good opening. But I I prefer the one with the Cretaceous opening. And then I think the only other difference I can think of just from memory, I did we did a we recorded a podcast straight afterwards where we noted our thoughts on it, and I've released it on my YouTube channel. So you can go and listen back to what we thought about the film a year out from release. Yeah, it's like a time capsule, wasn't it? Yeah, there's like a few little differences. Like there's a shot of in the final cut, both cuts of the film, there's a shot of Barry giving out earphones to all the characters in Malta, and they're putting them in, whereas that wasn't in there. So one of my notes to Colin after the film was like, You need to have a shot of Barry or someone giving microphones out because it was really weird, everyone talking to each other, and like, how the hell can they hear each other across the island? And he was like, Oh, we have that shot, it's about 17 seconds long, I'll put it back in. And there it is. So it's like it's things like that that I can remember, but uh and some questionable blue screen in the Motor um. They hadn't finished all the effects, had they?

SPEAKER_01 5:23:09

Yeah, as a film in general, you know, it was just like because up until that point we had only had like I think Colin had relayed the story to you back in like 2018, was it just after Fallen Kingdom Jack and it was like three or four months after Fallen Kingdom was released.

SPEAKER_04 5:23:24

He invited me to Pinewood to chat with him about what we're gonna do next, and then he literally sat there and just told me the entire plot of Dominion, and it was pretty much word for word, exactly what we see in the final film before he'd even written it on script. Like he that is his film, regardless of what people think of it. Like he had that vision and wanted to make it.

SPEAKER_01 5:23:44

I I've I've I've still got my notes, and there's something I don't know if I don't know if you brought this up before, like the end, the end battle basically with the Giganosaurus, the T-Rex, and all of that. I think in the original, like back then, he mentioned that he might just even have like the Spinosaurus come out at some point as well. So well, he he he did word it.

SPEAKER_04 5:24:04

This is from memory, bear in mind. He worded it as in like he was talking about all the fans on YouTube who keep making battle arenas on Jurassic World Evolution, like they make like gaming beam and stuff, make these huge circular bases with all the paddocks open up inside, and just a four of dinosaurs just going at it in the middle. He was like, I kind of want that to be the ending. Okay, like they're all in these holding paddocks in this massive ring, and something happens where all the gates open, and there's just the characters are just stuck in the middle of this absolute mess of dinosaurs. Carnage, obviously, he probably pitched that and they went, Yeah, we're gonna need to dial it back. So you've got the ring, you've got the Biosyn ring, you've got all the dinosaurs like pretty much in there, and then some of them are like, as far as I could tell in the film, because that's one of my big contentions with Dominion, is how messy the setup is where the dinosaurs are at the end. But like, I think some of them are leaving, and then you've got yeah, the T-Rex Giga and Therazinosaurus are the ones battling it out, and Dreadnoughts is walking past and stuff like that. But yeah, he was debating having the Spino there and God knows what else.

SPEAKER_08 5:25:09

I don't know. I saw it three times in the cinema, I think, with various different people. For me, it was the return of Alan Grant, Ellie Sattler, Ian Malcolm, getting all of those back together on the screen. You know, I was just so desperate for to see Alan Grant again. I thought I'm never gonna see him again. But yeah, so that was amazing. And then when I finally saw the extended cut, I was like, this film makes so much more sense, and I feel like there's a lot more that you could still put in. It feels like it should be two films. Do you know whether it was ever gonna be two pre-COVID?

SPEAKER_04 5:25:40

Colin, I know when Colin was telling me the story, like just word of mouth, way back in 2018, he asked me my thoughts on you know, what do you think about the ideas of it being like a two-parter? Because he was laying it out, he's like, it's a big story. Yeah, I said, and don't shoot me, I said, I don't like two parters, because I said, because the first part always feels redundant because you get you're just trying to get to the second half. I was like, I was like, I'd rather a story have a start, middle, and end. Yeah, I'd rather a three-hour film that has a start, middle, and end that I can watch and go on go than a you know what four-hour extravaganza across two movies. I was like, um plus I think I debated with him, not debated as in like we were going against each other, like talking about where would the cutoff be? Like where's the point where you end the film? Where's the big climax at the end of part one if you're setting up all this other stuff? So yeah, so I I kind of I don't know if I personally had that effect on it, but I definitely gave my opinion that I prefer one movie, and I do. I I prefer Dominion as one film, however, saying that I've done a fan edit of Dominion where I split it into two films. I don't know if you've heard of this.

SPEAKER_08 5:26:57

No, I haven't heard of this, no.

SPEAKER_04 5:26:59

So I I was watching the film one day and I was like, I wonder if you could make two films of this by splitting Alan and Ellie's story and Owen and Claire's.

SPEAKER_08 5:27:07

Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Funnily enough, I was so watching it for this for this podcast. I was just like, What what would happen if you took out like literally just spit on the street?

SPEAKER_04 5:27:17

I've done it. If you want to have a copy, I've done it. I've got I've got two versions of the film. One's called uh Jurassic World Dominion First Iteration, and then Jurassic World Dominion's second iteration, and I think the first one's with Alan and Ellie and Maisie, I think. And then you see a bit of Maisie's story, and then the second one's with Owen and Claire and Maisie, obviously. But both films then when they both meet up at that one point when they get you know when all the characters meet, that's when the films are exactly the same. So they both they both they both do this. But yes, I as someone who's like, I don't like two movies, I literally made it into two movies.

SPEAKER_08 5:27:55

I I I get what you mean. I do like stories to have a beginning, middle, and end, and if you can tell it in one, then that's definitely what it is. I just think with the story that we get that Colin's trying to get across to us, I think particularly around Owen and Maisie's story, a lot of the time the the uh the film just I just want it to stop for a moment and just linger on some silence between characters and because there's some big heavy stuff going on between Maisie and uh it just doesn't uh give itself enough time, I think, to really bed those ideas so we get that really strong connection. I think the Ellie and uh um Alan and Ian you know to a lesser extent, but at least Ellie and Alan, I think because we've got the Jurassic Park knowledge with us when we're watching it, I think it's easier just to slot into their story a bit quicker. Whereas the moment round the campfire just feels like a really nice moment for the film and it's over in about like three minutes or less than that.

SPEAKER_04 5:28:50

I know what you mean. There needs to be like an extra scene because the their plot is about Maisie finding out finding out who she is and Owen and Claire uh dealing with you know, trying to be parents.

SPEAKER_08 5:29:01

I want a scene like more with Owen and Claire maybe talking. Like j doesn't have to be much, but just a scene between them.

SPEAKER_01 5:29:09

I swear they must have shot stuff in that log cab.

SPEAKER_08 5:29:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:29:13

Yeah, I think when when I first watched it, I related more to the Owen, Claire and Maisie storyline to the Alan and Ellie storyline. Like I was drawn more to that side of the film, to Jack's uh first iteration than than the other side. No, not not that I I I didn't I dislike the uh Alan and Ellie storyline, but it was just you know I was more invested at that point in Owen and Claire's storyline.

SPEAKER_04 5:29:37

What made me laugh was like I I'm the same with you, Sam, but that's because I'm a new parent. So it's like I was uh that's where I was that's yeah, that's you got a personal input in that. Um but I I remember going into Dominion before that came out in the fan circles, everyone was talking about how, you know, oh you hear the usual thing like, oh, Owen's just star lord, no one takes it seriously. Seriously, like the older characters have this more gravitas and yada yada yada yada. And then you watch Dominion, and it's the complete opposite. Like Owen and Claire's story is way more subdued and serious in their tone and the way they talk of talk to each other. And then Alan, Ellie, and Ian are all like quippy and like laughing and joking and stuff like that. And then when you think about it, and I uh my opinion on that is that that makes complete sense because it's how far from the trauma are you? Owen and Claire are literally living in isolation with this girl they've essentially kidnapped.

SPEAKER_07 5:30:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:30:34

And uh they're trying to work out what to do with her, and it's a really weird situation, and obviously Claire's wanted for you know her involvement with uh the Dinosaur Protection Group and and all that sort of stuff. Ellie, Ian, and Alan are so far removed from 2001 and their last involvement with this stuff that they've sort of come to terms with their trauma, and they're a little bit more like you know, as Ian is, he's just like, Oh, you know, it's the end times, whatever, we've squandered our time.

SPEAKER_08 5:31:02

You know, it's like he's I love I love the fact that Ian Malcolm is the in-house philosopher for this for Biosyn. He's quite slimy in Jurassic Park. He just says whatever he pitches his piece, you know, doesn't care that anybody doesn't listen to him. He just nobody's listening to me. I'm just gonna moan and tell you that you're all wrong and I'm right all the time. That's what he does in the books. And it feels like he's just come to terms with that fact in in Dominion. He's this, you know, as as um as Rome Burns, he's inju he's enjoying his best life. And I think Jeff Gobblem had amazing time. I think the three of them improvised a lot of their stuff.

SPEAKER_04 5:31:38

They also had the history of the character in their minds, so they're in those characters. I'm in I'm currently listening to the Lost World audiobook, uh, the Crichton book, um, in in in prep for rebirth, because I'm trying to get in co-op's head. Like when I go into rebirth, I'm like, well, what has co-op got from these books that he's gonna try and adapt? Anyway, uh interesting point. There's a whole bit about Malcolm in that book, how he was an in-house uh I can't remember what they called him now, in-house person for In-Gen. So like he worked he worked extensively for In-Gen for a long time, and I'm like, that's where Colin got the bias in stuff from. Like that is uh genuinely the way they word it in the book. I can't remember exactly how it's worded, but I was listening to it. I was like, Yep, that's where Colin got the whole idea of him working for biasin' from. It's like laid out right there. Um, yeah, so it's interesting.

SPEAKER_08 5:32:26

Yeah, I actually rereading the books this year, I was amazed about how much like Colin and Emily took from the books. Like, I was just had a little pen just marking down. I was just like, Oh, this is this is Jurassic World Dominion, and it feels like Malcolm's speech and all of that feels lifted right from some bits in in Lost World, particularly that lecture he gives at the start of the book. Yeah. Yeah, is if there's uh d lines directly taken from Claire is kind of the most developed character, I think, across the three films. If you're looking at somebody who really goes on a journey, do you think that's true? I do.

SPEAKER_04 5:33:06

There is one bugbear though that I have um with Dominion and Claire, which it it it irritates me every time I watch the film because I'm like, it was so close to grasping complete greatness. Whereas like actually, no, I might take that back. Actually, I think I'm remembering a conversation I had with myself in my head, and I'm so what I'm trying to say is there's a bit the plane has been attacked by the Ketzical Atlas, and Owen turns to Claire and he looks at her and he realizes she's got to be the one to go save Maisie. So he goes up and he's like, You're the one who's gotta go get her. I love you, I'll see you again, and he just lets her go and she goes off into the wilderness, and he's then obviously she thinks he dies in a plane crash. It always bugged me ever since my wife pointed this out, and then ever since she mentioned it, I was like, I was like, Why did you have to say that? She was like, Claire and Owen find Maisie. It's not, it's not oh yeah, Claire finds like they it feels like it should be Claire finds Maisie, yeah, and and she's like, I've done it, and then Owen comes up. I feel like what Colin was actually trying to go for was that no, you can't split them up, yeah. Because even though they're like, No, you go rescue, no, you go like all this sort of stuff. It's like, no, no, you have she has to see you both there together to trust you, so that's why when Maisie sees them after the car accident, she's like, My parents. She doesn't say Owen and Claire, she says, My parents, and that's I feel like had it been one of them, it wouldn't have the narrative point that uh I think Colin was going for. So I've kind of just turned myself around on that. I was about to be like, Yeah, uh Claire should have found Maisie.

SPEAKER_08 5:34:50

But it's interesting, but I it is interesting at the start because that campfire sequence, Maisie seems to react to Owen in a better way than than she does to Claire. So it feels like they've got more of a relationship to actually to build upon, to actually get started, you know. Maisie and and Claire, they need to work work a bit better with each other. Whereas when Owen turns out, they're just like, Oh yeah, you know, just you know, they high-five each other and they're whittling outside.

SPEAKER_04 5:35:18

Well, there's all there is an underlining thing with Owen and Maisie where Owen doesn't trust her. Yeah. Because he's like, Don't go past the bridge. He has an argument with her around the campfire and she storms off. And then when uh she's like with Beta and she's giving him the bread, he comes up with Blue, and he's like, Maisie, get back in the house. She's like, I'll come with you, and he goes, What did I just say? And she storms off, and that's what gets her kidnapped. I think it's the moment when they're going to rescue Beta together, and she steps forward and does the whole like you know, thing. And then Owen gives Grant a look of like, Okay, she's doing this, and then they do the trifecta with Beta. I feel like that moment narratively is really important for the whole story because visually it's like a callback to obviously, you know, visually you're looking at it, it's Owen with the three raptors around him, and he's putting his hands up from Jurassic World. This is the complete opposite. You've got three large humans and one tiny raptor, so it's like visually it's the it's the mirror image, but also you've got Alan Grant there witnessing for the first time this sort of raptor behaviour human relationship, which he hasn't has not seen since you know, communicating with him with his whistle. Um but it's like obviously putting Alan Grant in a situation with Raptor, it's a young raptor, so it's it's still dangerous, but it's not like he's confronting uh an adult raptor. So Grant's a little bit more relaxed, he's dishing out his like you know, they go for the fruit, blah blah blah blah. And then Beta obviously goes for Alan, so it's set up earlier that um you know they can they know when you're scared kind of thing. It's like Owen and Maisie have that exchange of dialogue about like you know, they can tell when you're scared, and obviously Alan Grant being you know, his history with raps is the first time, even as a young one, that's why Beta goes for him. But then you've got yeah, the whole Maisie Owen relationship is coming to uh a close there. Okay, like they're they're trusting each other because Owen is like, Maisie, you've got him like we're we're gonna triangulate. So I just think there's loads going on in that moment that really ties a lot of things together over the legacy of Jurassic, but most people might not spot it, they might not think about it, they'll just see like the hand thing and be like and that's it.

SPEAKER_08 5:37:33

It's probably a film that I will watch least compared to the other two, Jurassic World and Fallen Kingdom. Actually, I've my opinion of Fallen Kingdom was quite low when I first saw it, but actually it's the film that I've now probably enjoyed the most out of those three, just because of the big swings that it takes. And the more I watch it, the more I can see exactly what Bayona and all of them were uh doing with that film, and it's very clever. And as a horror film fan as well, I I just love the the look of it. Yes, yeah, classic horror. And just the fact that it's somebody just playing in a sandbox and just doing stuff that you won't wouldn't expect. I I can sit down and watch that film and just enjoy it as a film, doesn't need to really be associated with Jurassic Park or anything. It's just it's just a fun, really good, like suspenseful film, I think.

SPEAKER_04 5:38:25

Uh Dominion is the only one, if you watch it, it wouldn't make much sense unless you've watched the others. I think Jurassic Park 3 has the San Diego line and the name drop of sauna in Fallen Kingdom are the only two things that would make if you didn't know anything, you'd be like, the hell are they talking about? What was that? Yeah. But um no, what's the San Diego incident? What's Alan Grant talking about? But like their stories actually make sense in a vacuum. You just take them out, you like you can watch it from start mid-level, and it'll make sense. Dominion gets a little bit lost in the weeds when they start talking about the first generation came from sauna and and all that sort of stuff. Like you know, the can, Dodson grabbing the can, like what's the point in that? Why do they keep showing that stupid?

SPEAKER_01 5:39:07

You also got like eight characters with no real background story as well. So you're just like all these people, if you like, going in for the first time.

SPEAKER_08 5:39:14

And Sam, what do you think about the new characters that Dominion brings in, you know, like Ramsey and uh Kayla? There's quite a new like people that we've got to get on board with quite quickly and trust quite quickly as well.

SPEAKER_01 5:39:27

Yeah, I think they um the way they were handled and introduced was they felt very Jurassic and they felt I say very Jurassic, they felt very Jurassic world and they slotted into the their respective parts in the story quite well. I don't feel like there was too many parts for them shoehorned in. Uh uh I'm I think I maybe had one or two issues with some of the characters earlier on, but you know, after that I thought, yeah, up watching it for like the second time, I was you know, I was a little bit more you know welcoming of them. Yeah, but I think it was more to back to counterbalance the the the returning characters as well, isn't it? It's like we can't just have like a a complete cast of reunions, you know, we've got to bring some new blood in as well. And at that point, I know you know this was the end of the saga, but there were also you know was potential for taking stories forward with like spin-offs and whatnot. So, you know, we you did kind of there was probably a a a bit of studio play in that as well.

SPEAKER_08 5:40:26

Yeah, I mean I enjoy I enjoy Kayla, she's probably my my favourite of the new characters. She does a pretty good job, I think, of slotting into that group and actually being an entertaining presence on the screen.

SPEAKER_01 5:40:39

Yeah, yeah, she did. She felt like um she could have been a character in like Indiana Jones or something, you know, like a sidekick.

SPEAKER_04 5:40:45

Star Wars, she's hand solo, yeah, yeah. She literally is, she's got the the rugged ship, she gets met at the uh at Tatooine, you know, scum of villainy in Malta.

SPEAKER_06 5:40:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:40:56

And she even has the when they start the Bloomin' plane up, it has the Millennium Falcon sound. It goes that noise.

SPEAKER_06 5:41:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:41:04

Yeah. Yeah. When you start watching Dominion through the lens of Star Wars, you'll start to see how Colin was giving his two middle fingers up to Disney for what happened with him.

SPEAKER_08 5:41:14

I yeah. I remember thinking when that whole thing kicked off, and I thought he's gonna channel so much of like raw energy and up you mentality.

SPEAKER_04 5:41:28

Kind of like you have all the hero, classic hero characters, Alan, Ellie, and Ian, all survive, none of them die, and they all meet, and they have that glorious shot of all of them together. Whereas the new Star Wars films, they killed Luke, they killed Han, they killed Leia, and they all had separate films, none of them got back together. So it's like him being like, nah, you you screwed up.

SPEAKER_01 5:41:49

We haven't got this is how we even got our own most eisely with the uh with the black market.

SPEAKER_08 5:41:56

I love all that that stuff, the black market stuff.

SPEAKER_04 5:41:58

I have a question though. Uh would would you guys consider Dodson a new character, even though he had his cameo in Dominion? Because I I wouldn't because I I wouldn't in the sense that like I actually think Campbell Scott played him very well to the point where if you go back and watch Jurassic Park and look at the mannerisms between the original actor and and then and Campbell Scott's version, like they actually are very similar, like the way the way they're awkwardly talking and stuff. But obviously, he is like introduced in a major way in Dominion.

SPEAKER_06 5:42:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:42:30

Because I think if if we were to consider him a new character, I would say he's my new favourite because he's such a slime ball, and uh and I've got a lot to say about Dodson as a character.

SPEAKER_08 5:42:40

I'm inter I'm interested to think about why Ellie and Alan are so down on Biosyn and Dodgson. There isn't the overt connection early up front that he's the person that sent Nedry. You know, I'm just thinking for a general person sitting sitting down and watching this film, building him up as this big bad that's almost been playing behind the scenes of all of this. Like, is it because he feels more like a Steve Jobs or like Tim Cook?

SPEAKER_04 5:43:07

He literally is Tim Cook. Yeah, I know. I don't know what Colin was trying to say with that, but No, I know.

SPEAKER_08 5:43:13

It's so it's like it's are you meant to be like really hating on hate hating on him just because of the way he is in that opening now this?

SPEAKER_04 5:43:21

I I no, I I well I think obviously if we know who he is, yeah. I don't know if you've watched my latest YouTube video on Dominion where I go into how he's a hollow dragon.

SPEAKER_08 5:43:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 5:43:31

I go into like the the visual symbolism of Dodson and the Gigonotosaurus, they're both connected, they're both hollow dragons. But like Dodson is I'm I'm glad they never had a scene where Alan and Ellie are like, you were the one who turned up. It'd be then no two two on the nose. I like that if knowing what we know as an audience, when Alan and Ellie meet Dodson in the ring of Bison headquarters, you see how awkward he is. Yeah, it's like we know why he's acting awkward because he's nervous as hell because he realized who these people are, and now they're in his house. And it's like he's and that's why he's like, You want one of my bars? You know, and it's like he's acting really skittish, and you know.

SPEAKER_08 5:44:13

I think that's the first crack that we see is when he asks Ramsey, Have you got one of my bars? And it's he like he's well, he's building him up at that before that as being like, Oh, he's this amazing guy, he's so handsome and he's so smart, and he's j he's just like me. And then he goes, Have have you got any food for me? And he treats him just like a servant. And he immediately the dynamic has shifted. We can see exactly what their relationship really is. It's not about Ramsay being the same as him at all. It's a it's not not in Dodson's eyes. He's just he's somebody who's a lackey and I can get him to do what I want. And I I do like Campbell Scott as as as as Dodson. I think he is particularly that first scene that you get to see him when in in the complex feels very method. I don't know whether he is a method actor or whether that's but he feels like he's really going deep on that character.

SPEAKER_04 5:45:02

If you watch, there's an interview with Campbell Scott where he's like talking about Dodson and the role, and he talks about going into the book and reading the book and going into it and stuff. Like he definitely understood where Crichton was going with the character and how sort of slimy he is. Because like obviously, everyone, because it's so visceral, everyone knows Eli Mills is book Dodson in terms of like he literally murders an old man in his bed. Like he's he's horrible. Dodson tries to murder all of the main cast in Dominion. Yeah, he tries to have Owen and Claire killed in Malta, he turns off the it gets them to turn off the ADS. So the Ketz tries to kill him, he tries to he stops the tunnel, the train, hyper leap train. So Alan and Ellie go into the tunnels where he knows people have died because there's a skull in them. Like he's like he he tr actively tries to kill all the main cast. So he's an attempted murderer, and obviously the skull in the cave lets us believe that there's stuffing going on here that he you know, and obviously we know our history with him and Nedri. But the irony is uh that he's the only one who dies in Biosyn. You know, obviously most Jurassic films, you know, everything goes to pot and there's like carnage everywhere, and people are ah dying. But in Jurassic World Dominion, I think it's a narrative point that like Dodson does all this stuff, tries to get people killed, but he's ironically the only one who bites the dust. It's like for all his effort.

SPEAKER_08 5:46:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:46:28

It's like, yeah, he's his own undoing.

SPEAKER_08 5:46:30

Yeah. Uh Sam, what what maybe is your favourite dinosaur moment or action sequence that we get in Dominion?

SPEAKER_01 5:46:37

Um, I think it's definitely the uh Terizinosaurus moment with Claire. And that was heartbreaking to see in the same way, like as I was describing earlier with some of the the rebirth um market in and TV spots is that they revealed that scene because I think at the point we watched it, we that that we wasn't even aware of anything like that in the film. So seeing that flu, it was just like mind blown, and it was almost like that. It felt like the the score was sort of like the thing, wasn't it? Like the like jawsy the thing sort of thing, and just it was just so intense watching it, and uh, I was just like I love as with you. I'm a massive horror fan. Yeah, that's a big element of why I love Jurassic World Fallen Kingdom. But that scene was just I was I was a kid in a candy shop with that whole scene, and it was just so great. But yeah, for me, like just yeah, to answer your question, that's that scene from start to finish.

SPEAKER_08 5:47:30

I think Gekino for me is the MVP of the film. Uh just just amazing. And you can feel that this is potentially for him the last one that he's gonna do, and he's been working on Jurassic, you know, since the Lost World PlayStation game.

SPEAKER_01 5:47:44

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 5:47:44

And he just goes hell for leather and takes all of the I think his scores for Jurassic World are really good and he reuses them in such fun, inventive ways. It kind of gives those scenes, particularly with I was thinking the cowboy, you know, with the with the Parasarolyphus and the guitar, the Western guitar. He I I feel like that is it makes that scene even more fun because of it. I think if it had been a too serious, the theme or the music underlying it, then you would it might have you know teetered into ridiculousness. But he just I think he saves it with taking that music and just applying it again. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:48:22

It would have been it would have been interesting to see it with no score, yeah, like the original T-Rex breakout. Just from that perspective, just quiet, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 5:48:31

Just the sounds of the jungle. Jack, what's your what's your takeaway kind of dinosaur or action scene?

SPEAKER_04 5:48:38

Probably the entire Malta sequence.

SPEAKER_08 5:48:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:48:42

Because it was that was quintessentially the newest this film had to offer. Because I you were talking about your love of Fallen Kingdom and and what that did for the franchise. Because I've always had this debate in my head since seeing the two films which Jurassic film was the more ambitious one of the two. I think Dominion takes it for me because obviously half of uh Fallen Kingdom is like on an island, so that's very similar, very similar territory, but it's ambitious when it goes off Island to a haunted house.

SPEAKER_06 5:49:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:49:15

So um, but Dominion is, I think, ambitious throughout, especially with its plot involving these locusts and and then obviously having dinosaurs global and and black markets and all that sort of stuff. It's like I'm not saying it's like perfect, but it took some very big swings. The Malta sequence, I think that's the big that's the equivalent of like the the main road attack sequence from the first film. It's like these US big 20-minute long action sequence.

SPEAKER_08 5:49:39

Happens about roughly about the same time, I think, as as well.

SPEAKER_04 5:49:44

And it just blew me away. And I think again, narratively, it's like the visuals of Owen being chased by the Raptors this time and not being not being with them, and and and obviously the what that means for his character and us as an audience following him since Jurassic World. I think that's just it was so fun. And I really like that um I think it's in one of the extras they talk about how it might have been Colin actually saying he wanted to set it in Malta because it's very ancient looking, so you have these very ancient-looking creatures alongside this ancient-looking human.

SPEAKER_08 5:50:15

They're all a nice colour palette, the actual dinosaurs match the surroundings all of them, particularly when they're out in the street.

SPEAKER_04 5:50:23

And I think they could have really dropped the ball with it in terms of its ridiculousness, but I think they they nailed it.

SPEAKER_08 5:50:31

And again, I think that's down to the score as well. Because the score is just I mean, that was in my head the second that scene had finished. You know, I could I could hum that coming out the cinema.

SPEAKER_04 5:50:40

The uh the plane the cycle of that track. Everyone talks about that track because that is the one. Yeah, that's that's where you just get your head bobbing you like, this is great. So yeah, that and then I would say one of the other Jurassic uh the dinosaur moments I really really appreciate in in the film is the the T-Rex Giga um meeting for the first time. Yeah. Well, second time, technically, if you count the Cretaceous Cut, but just stealing the deer, yeah. Just take the deer, they have that little scrap and walk off, and it's just so natural. And yeah, and I just that's one thing I wish Dominion had more of was like when they're traveling through Biosyn Valley, just seeing some more herbivores and stuff, just some more dinosaur behaviours out and about.

SPEAKER_08 5:51:21

That's the kind of stuff that I think I wanted a bit more of. I th I wanted that bigger view. We're moving to so many different locations, but rarely do we get big wide shots or when we get to a new space. We get travelling shots of helicopters and things, but we immediately are back into the action. We're in tight shots on on characters and they're in a new location, whereas we don't get a chance to like take a step back and go, Wow, what where have we come from? Jurassic Park? We're just on a tiny island to now that they're just ubiquitous, they're in everybody's lives. And I would have liked a little bit we got the foam footage at the start when the now this kind of thing, which is meant there to build that story in. But I wanted shots a bit more like the Apatosaur scene when it gets out of the snow. I think that's that's a really good scene for me. And again, no dialogue, hardly any music.

SPEAKER_04 5:52:10

There is a there is a six-minute long YouTube video you can check out that was edited by yours truly. It covers all that sort of stuff. Uh kind of COVID. I'll curse COVID till the end of the days. Because had that not happened, those clips probably would have been in the film. Yeah. It's like, ah, come on. Um yeah, no, I'm with you.

SPEAKER_01 5:52:29

I'm with you. Yeah, I was gonna ask what was your favourite scene, Ryan?

SPEAKER_08 5:52:32

What's my favourite? Yeah, I I think it is the apatasaur scene, actually, just that uh it's very different. Again, no no real dialogue needed in that moment. All it's all show, don't tell. You get the flare on the back of the truck. It's a nice breathing moment. You can see Maisie interacting with us with with the people, and it's it was really great. I remember watching that in the cinema and thinking, oh, this has got this feels right, this feels like a good Jurassic moment. And again, it's just animals doing what animals do, which is what I love about Jurassic as well.

SPEAKER_04 5:53:03

Do you want to know an interesting detail from that scene that I picked up on on my last watch? Yeah, hang on. In that moment, no one has their phone cameras out. So all the humans are looking at this giant dinosaur, which normally you'd be like, Oh my god, look at this, look at this, look at this. Colin, they've obviously made the decision to have all everyone. No one's got their phones out and in the way, kind of thing. It's like this a way of cementing visually with no words, as you said. That yeah, obviously in real life, people would still be like, Oh my god, like thing, but yeah.

SPEAKER_08 5:53:32

I mean, I literally went to London Zoo the other day, and you couldn't move like mo and everybody's seen a penguin for years.

SPEAKER_04 5:53:39

Yeah, for the narrative purpose, it's like, yeah, it doesn't make sense in a real like reality, but no one has their phones out. As far as I could tell, I was looking, I was like, Yeah, don't see anyone.

SPEAKER_08 5:53:48

And then that's the contrast to Jurassic World where we first see the T-Rex, and you can't we miss the T-Rex you know eating the goat because of all the mobile phones. Yeah. Um do you do you think the Giganautosaurus is kind of worthy of the big bad of this film in terms of the dinosaurs?

SPEAKER_04 5:54:07

I'll let you go first, Sam, because I could talk the hind legs of a horse about this.

SPEAKER_01 5:54:12

That's right, that's what I was holding off because I was like, oh, Jack's gonna have an answer for this. I mean, it it's definitely different to what we've seen previously, you know. It's it's big, it's it's it's slow and it's menacing, but it's you know, it's not like the Indominus, it's not like the Indoraptor and things like that. It's it was a nice change of pace for the for the big bad of the movie, but um yeah, to me it wasn't it it I don't really don't know. I'm sitting there thinking of it and I'm like I don't know. I know Jack's burst in to say uh to get his point across, so maybe I'll let you go.

SPEAKER_04 5:54:49

On the surface, yeah, the Giganosaurus is a bit of a dud. It's like okay, it doesn't eat anyone, it's it's it doesn't really do anything unique at all. It's just there, we've been told it's gonna be this thing, but it turned out to be another thing, and it's just like, what is it? What's the point? Yeah, I I like to dig really deep, and I and maybe maybe I make stuff up, I don't know. But on when I was doing research for my previous video about how they're hollow dragons, I think I've unearthed something to do with the Giga. I think the whole narrative point of the Giga is that it's the a it's sort of like an anti-Indominus.

SPEAKER_06 5:55:26

Right.

SPEAKER_04 5:55:27

It's like the Indominus was hyper intelligent, super fast, killed loads of people, all this and the other. The Giga Nosaurus is just this sort of slow lumbering animal which you know doesn't come across as particularly smart. It it guards the dominion of biosin, right?

SPEAKER_07 5:55:43

Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:55:44

And what is biosin? So you have to go into the question, what is biosin? Well, biosin's a company that has built itself up by stealing other people's work. They even Ramsey mentions it, the first generation came from Sauna, so not their own dinosaurs. We know he stole the embryos from the can because we see he has the can. Uh, in the extended version of the film, there's that whole scene where Dodson even says, you know, I've got all this decades of stuff I've collected. So you're like, okay, so you nothing here for all its like uh you know grandeur.

SPEAKER_08 5:56:16

Essentially the Ian Malcolm line, you know, in in Jurassic Park, you know, you didn't you just stood on the peop shoulders of people who did it before you exactly, and it's hollow, it's literally hollow.

SPEAKER_04 5:56:25

And so I equate the Gigana Saurus to a dragon sitting on a pile of gold, and obviously we know in Dominion, as they said, that they're sat on amber. The amber mines are underneath uh Biosyn, so it's like amber's like the gold that the Giganautosaurus is sleeping on. But a lot of uh iconography to do with dragons is they sleep on massive piles of gold. The first time we see the giga outside of the Cretaceous scene, or even in the Cretaceous scene, it's sleeping. Like the first time you see it, it's just sleeping, that's all it's doing. And like Dodson himself, it's like the Giga is all bark, like all Augusto, like got all this sort of stuff, but really nothing to it, nothing to it, and it's uh that's I think that's the narrative point of it. It's meant to be like this I'm the big bad, I'm here, and then it's like no, you're you're a false king, you're not the real deal, you're you're fake, and that's why then you know the T-Rex can overthrow it with the Therizinosaurus' help, which Colin had previously done in Jurassic World with the T-Rex fighting the Indominus. Yeah, the Moser is the thing that takes it out. So I find it interesting that in both of Colin's movies he's had the actual really cool new creature be the thing that actually kills the the big bad. So Jurassic World obviously it has the T-Rex and Raptor working together to take down this T-Rex Raptor hybrid, so the unnatural versus the two natural.

SPEAKER_06 5:57:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:57:52

Uh I'm doing air quotes by the way for this one. Uh the natural dinosaurs taking it out, but it's actually the Mosasaurus which comes and take it finally takes it down. It's like it's actually that's the new thing that isn't, you know, old come uh or nostalgia bait. It's the new thing that actually takes it out. And the same goes for Jurassic World Dominion, it's the Therizinosaurus that takes out the Giga.

SPEAKER_08 5:58:14

And that thing must have been terrified. Like it didn't, it it's blind, it didn't know it had a huge giga on its on its hands. It's like, what the hell are you doing to me?

SPEAKER_04 5:58:22

Yeah, it's like ah but I think yeah, the the Giga, I like it. I really like it. After I've because I even have it breathe fire, like it there's so that's what got me thinking about it. I was like, why do they have it breathing fire? It's really weird. And then I sort of went down this rabbit hole in my head, and I think, and I've laid this all out in my latest video. I genuinely think I've unearthed that what Colin was going for with it. It's this, yeah, or hollow dragon.

SPEAKER_08 5:58:46

I think I I think you need to do like an audio commentary track for for um Dominican.

SPEAKER_04 5:58:51

I have done, but I this was before I came across all this sort of stuff.

SPEAKER_08 5:58:54

Nice, yeah. Um I want the ability to pause it and then you pop up and say the say those things.

SPEAKER_04 5:59:00

I love this sort of stuff. It's like in Fallen Kingdom, I did a whole video about the the the set decoration, like the the rooms in all Lockwood's houses, every room you see the characters in, the wallpaper actually matches their character motivations. Obviously, if you didn't have the trailers, you wouldn't have had a spoil. But like you go into Mills' office when he's like recruiting Claire, and like it has all these like hexagonal black and white uh patterns all on the wall, and they look like scales of a snake, and obviously he's gonna betray him. He's a snake, he's literally the snake, you know, going, Eve, have this apple kind of thing. And it's like he's the embodiment of a snake. The scales also look like the Endoraptor scales, and he's also two-faced. He's like shows his happy side to everyone, and then he's evil. Like he there's this one shot where he's like um he's on the phone to Wheatley, and Maisie comes and goes and he goes, Not now, like that. He like yells at her, and then he goes, Sorry, Maisie, if I and it's like that's literally the white and black on the room that's around him, like the set decoration is it telling the audience this is who he is, even though obviously if you think about the lore, that's technically Lockwood's office, but you only you never see Lockwood in it, it's you only see Mills in it. Lockwood has like a fountain with two birds that are like identical to each other, so that's like Maisie and Charlotte, and they're sprouting out life and all that, and then in Maisie's room, she has loads of caged birds and butterflies and stuff on her wallpaper, and it's like the set decoration is informing you what is going on with the characters. So I notice this kind of thing, and then I just go on these massive like rabbit holes. But the thing is, I could be talking out of my ass sometimes. So, like if I and I'll be the and I'll be the first to admit it, if someone goes no no no and prove it wrong, I'm like, okay, yeah, okay, I'm I I've gone down the rabbit hole. I I saw something that wasn't there. It's because I watched like YouTube analysis of Stanley Kubrick movies and Spielberg obviously being a very good friend of Stanley Kubrick. You know, there's there's lots of things in these movies that they make, and then it's coded when they make the movies, where they're like, we're gonna do this because it'll say this narratively, but we won't, you know, it's not like we won't tell anyone, it's just no one ever thinks to like mention it. And a lot of people out there, and I mean a lot of people out there will just write off movies, they'll just be like, oh yeah, no, that's just this rubbish, and they just won't even think about it again. Whereas obviously being Jurassic obsessed helps, but like I've watched Dominion more times than I can count, and every time I watch it, I spot something new, and I'm like, that has to have some sort of meaning behind it, it has to. Why else would they do it? Like, it can't just be frivolous. So, like, like I said, with the Giga breathing fire, I was like, Oh, that's definitely George and the Dragon, uh, you know, with Ian with the spear. He literally looks like the George and the Dragon iconography when you look at all that on tapestries and stuff, is exactly the same. They they're always like spearing the dragon in the mouth as well in these old drawings, and that's exactly what he does. So I'm like, okay, that's George and the Dragon, that's obvious, that's a really obvious one. And then I'm like, but how deep does that go? Like the dragon, uh, and I know Colin does like this sort of stuff because if you watch Fallen Kingdom and just how insanely rich that film is when it comes to its reversal of the biblical stories of Genesis, it's like it's mad, and it's like they do their research, they genuinely do. But yeah, anyway, that I'll I'll stop my rant there.

SPEAKER_08 6:02:22

So the film came out and it did it did have a bit of a backlash in terms of the fans, potentially, you know, critics weren't up on it either. Are there any reasons why you think that would be?

SPEAKER_01 6:02:35

Do you think um if it wasn't for COVID, do you think the studio would have gambled a little bit more on the extended cut? And therefore, the general consensus around the extended cut is it's a much better film, and as you said, it makes a lot more sense. Do you think that would have been much better received critically, possibly financially, and we could be looking at a we could have been looking at a different outcome, uh a different Jurassic Park 7, basically.

SPEAKER_08 6:03:03

Yeah. I think I think COVID has a huge part to play in this, and that's the reason why it's for Dominions often quoted as being the most expensive film you know ever made, and it's because it was the first out of the gates for for COVID when it came back into production. And I think a lot of the filming for it would have changed if it hadn't have had to deal with COVID. It feels a little bit man manufactured, the distances. I don't know. I I think it would have been a very different feel and uh sense of the film that had it not had to deal with the actual production of COVID.

SPEAKER_04 6:03:49

I will say uh you know, like Jurassic Park is known for its special effects, the first one. Yeah, that's yeah, it's quite essential. That was the turning point in the entire world of digital effects, and then Jurassic has always been known for pushing the boundaries of effects. I I've always thought that the greatest effect that Dominion gets across is Chris Pratt was never in Malta. He never went, he never went. And there's only like maybe one shot of him on a roof where if you look closely enough, you can be like, Yeah, that's a green screen. Right. The rest of it is like on the bike, uh, you know, they're on sets and stuff when they're in the boathouse and stuff. I just I genuinely think that's one of the greatest uh effects in the movie going is the fact that he's not there, but they convince you completely that he is there, yeah. And that yeah, and they sell it. So in that regards, I think COVID it didn't have an effect on them in that in that specific example. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 6:04:38

What do you think the lasting legacy of this film? Do you think you want to see stories picked up from Dominion Laid Down?

SPEAKER_04 6:04:45

I I've written one, but I can't say I've written one that I really want to tell one day. Um I think there's a lot they could have done with the what they've set up.

SPEAKER_06 6:04:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:04:56

And I'm interested in what Rebirth's gonna do. I mean, I mean sp uh I'm very interested in what Rebirth's doing, but knowing that Coop spent several weeks helping to write Dominion script really makes me go, okay. Well then what did he because he knew because he was writing Rebirth sort of around the same time. He started like planning ideas for it. So they do work in tandem, they should hopefully work in tandem in setting up. Because obviously, I Jurassic World Rebirth's called Jurassic World Rebirth, so I'm uh I'm guessing the dinosaurs being global aren't all contained. There's still gonna be some things out there, they're not just gonna completely kill off all global dinosaurs and be like, no, they're only on this one island again. That would be ridiculous. So if they do that, then oh my god, like what are you doing? They can they can do anything with this series, they could always have a dinosaur crop up anywhere. Yeah, it's just whether there's a a taste for it. I always felt that they could actually genre hop, which is something I was kind of hoping they were gonna do, as in like, you know, Malta the Malta sequence feels like a sort of Jason-born mission possible type movie, but it's got it, but it's like in a Jurassic wrapping. I kind of felt like they could have had other movies like that where they take a genre, like you know, the end of Fallen Kingdom is like a horror film set in a haunted house, classic universal horror, but it's wrapped in Jurassic. It's like keep doing that.

SPEAKER_08 6:06:15

I think that wasn't that his kind of plan before he came back, Colin, was to kind of hand over the keys to different styles of director, because he said, you know, with if he'd been doing Star Wars, then who knows what who would have been ended up doing Dominion? Maybe somebody with more of that kind of action sensibility. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 6:06:31

Let's have like a like you know, let's have a horse racing movie, you know, like a like a Seabiscuit. Yeah, Seabiscuit, but but instead of horses, it's Parasol Office or something, you know. Or I don't know, that one's a bit stupid, but maybe like Twister. Okay, yeah. The movie Twister, they're chasing tornadoes. Well, if it's not tornadoes, they're chasing. Well, if it's like you've got this group of ragtag group of people who are like, you know, close-knit friends who've been working together years, they've got all these custom trucks that they drive around and they go, right, we've had a dinosaur sighting over here, let's go tag it and and and do get our research or whatever they're doing, or document it. Maybe they're a documentary team, and that's what they do. And it's like a road movie. So you have a road like a literal road movie where they're driving on the road, stopping at truck stops and and all that sort of stuff. And it's like, yeah, that sort of thing is what I've hoping we'd see more of. And that could still happen. Yeah, it could still happen.

SPEAKER_01 6:07:26

Yeah, I don't think um, I mean, I don't know, I could be wrong, but I don't think Universal is quite ready to disregard the last three films that grossed like four billion dollars a few years ago. Um yeah, like that foot that that trilogy is still a massive marketing machine, you know, with blue and all of that, they're still introducing them in the theme parks and that around the world. So Jurassic World, the trilogy there is is here to stay for the time being, hopefully. But yeah.

SPEAKER_08 6:07:52

I think that's maybe what Colin did the most was managed to resurrect a series that was dormant, you know, couldn't move at all, and came in with such energy and just confidence, I think, and guts, and just went, Look, I I I I can turn this into something that that will last, and I think that's probably what he's managed to do, is actually those three films. If he hadn't have done them in the way and they didn't you know, critics can say, and you know, fans and everybody can say what they like, but you know, those films he managed to change a brand from Jurassic Park into Jurassic World and created something that now I can't see stopping. You know, the fact that we were j just a few years after Dominion were getting a seventh film. You know, it's it's astonishing to think that that that what what what he set up in those three films has now led this impetus. You know, we've got the TV shows, you know, the um chaos theory on on Netflix, which is slowly getting more and more money each season, it seems, to bring in bigger guest stars, more money to spend on on it. And you don't know where that that whole thing is gonna go, the relationship with Netflix and um DreamWorks. Will we have a live action TV show at some point?

SPEAKER_04 6:09:04

I don't know. Personally, I'm not the biggest fan of TV shows, so I'm like be very it'd have to be really good to get me involved. Like get me.

SPEAKER_08 6:09:13

I'm thinking of kind of a monarch sort of style.

SPEAKER_04 6:09:15

Yeah, I didn't I didn't enjoy monarchs.

SPEAKER_08 6:09:18

I won't bring that up.

SPEAKER_04 6:09:20

Like it had its moments where I was like, this is could be really good, but I just I hate filler episodes where they just matter on and nothing really happens. And you're like, this is what goes back to my like parts one and two, like I like my start mill and then just a movie will do, but no, they could, and I and I mean they could do a live action show, and if they did, then I hope they do a really good one. You know, a mini-series would probably be better, like a five-episode mini-series, like Chernobyl. You know, that show was phenomenal and it was only five episodes long. You're like, do something like that, that'd be good.

SPEAKER_01 6:09:48

Yeah, I think with like a live action series, you're at a real risk of getting fan uh franchise fatigue really quick. Like I know a lot of people feel that with the Star Wars ones. So yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:09:59

And getting lost in the weeds, because there's like obviously Jurassic has a lot of lore and all that sort of stuff, and TV shows can really mess with it. Um, just getting back to your like the legacy of Jurassic World TV, like where do you think it's gonna go? I I this is obviously wishful thinking as well, as it's like a hope of mine. I hope that over the years people will go back to it and watch it. And the further away they get from their hang-ups they had with it and the emotions they had attached to watching it for the first time, I hope that they like that dissipates, and then when they can watch it with fresh eyes and be like, okay, I'm gonna take it uh on its own sort of terms and see what it has to say, and maybe open up to what the storyline was uh trying to go for. Because I know one of the big things that I think people got hung up on was obviously Fallen Kingdom was setting up dinosaurs being global, yeah, and obviously Dominion comes along with its locusts, and that I think threw a lot of people, and they were like, I thought this was gonna be about dinosaurs being global, not these genetically engineered bugs. And for me, I like I knew about the bugs right from the beginning, so I was like, I really enjoyed the sort of Kriton-esque feeling of those of that storyline, and obviously the Andromeda strain, you know, going into this circular building with these white things and Alan and Ellie and these yeah biohazard suits and stuff.

SPEAKER_08 6:11:21

I was like, Joquino even lifts some stuff from the school for for that as well.

SPEAKER_04 6:11:26

Yeah, exactly. So I'm like, that is you're just that's exactly what I love. So for me, I'm already biased. However, you know, I I think P obviously we did the marketing for Dino Tracker and we had people seeing dinosaurs around the world, so we had a part to play, very big part to play, in setting people up for hey, this is what the story is gonna focus around. Although the locusts were teased on our website, we will say that. Um, but the I think once people get away from that, like the ripples of that uh effect die down a little bit and they can go into the film, especially after rebirth. Maybe rebirth will give them because that's specifically about the dinosaurs, you've got to get their DNA, blah blah blah. Yeah, you know, maybe they'll go back to Dominion and watch it with a new new set of like expectations. Yeah, I think that'll help a lot. I think I know Fallen Kingdom, it's helping already. People are going back to that and being a bit like, yeah, that's not as bad as I remember it being.

SPEAKER_08 6:12:21

No.

SPEAKER_04 6:12:21

So yeah, that's that's what I hope anyway. If not, I love it and I don't care.

SPEAKER_08 6:12:27

Nice. Yeah, I'd just like to say thank you both so much for joining me today. It's been real fun talking about Dominion. Everybody go out and watch it and think about think about those dragons sitting on their gold. I was wondering where people can find you online if indeed you want them to.

SPEAKER_04 6:12:41

Yeah, I I'm on Twitter at Teradome 3K and Teradome 3000 on YouTube. I'm trying to get because I've got a new job now, so I'm trying to get like uh time to do more YouTube videos. I'm doing like Jurassic fact shorts. So go over there, learn some things about the franchise you might not know.

SPEAKER_01 6:12:56

Yeah. Yeah, myself, Twitter, BamSAM underscore MD, and Instagram, Sam Philips9985. Mostly just me running, but I'll post some Jurassic stuff every now and again.

SPEAKER_08 6:13:08

Cool. Well, again, thank you both very much. And uh yeah, I can't wait to hear your thoughts when Rebirth eventually comes out. It's not it's not long now. Thanks, Rowland. My huge thanks to both Jack and Sam for that conversation and hearing all of their stories from working with Colin, seeing Dominion early, and their thoughts. And I think after that conversation, and after a few other things that I've listened to, my opinion of Dominion now, after doing all of these episodes, has changed for the better. I think the final film still feels compromised, and it feels like it doesn't take its time enough to allow me to see all of the things that Jack was talking about. They're there, but I wanted to explicitly feel them myself. I don't think. The film hit in the emotional way that I wanted it to. And it might take a couple more years for me to get there. I can't quite believe it, but we're at the end. I set out at the beginning of February to put something together to really honour the film series that I have loved the most. And I hope these 12 episodes, this whistle stop tour of the last 32 years in Jurassic history has been interesting for you. And I hope that you've learnt some new things along the way. For me, I've met some amazing people, had some incredible conversations, and it's a joy that when this uh road to rebirth season is done, I'm hopeful that those conversations will continue. I've still got a few more episodes to release. I've uh interviewed a couple more people, but I'm not going to tell you who they are yet. Just have to wait and see. As always, if you've enjoyed this series, please go on to Apple Podcasts and review this podcast. Give us a five-star rating. It really does help this show find the Jurassic fans out there. And also follow me on Instagram at Road2RebirthPod. But until next time, I'll just say thank you very much for listening and goodbye.

SPEAKER_05 6:15:18

But I I did a short little TV to camera interview with Gareth Edwards at the at the press junket, and I asked him about the river sequence, uh, obviously as you as you would. So yeah, he basically said in his answer that he had no idea when he read the script and then he shot the movie, shot the sequence, came to the editing phase. He had no idea at that point that that sequence came from the book, came from the Crichton novel.

SPEAKER_08 6:15:47

Hello and welcome back to Road to Rebirth. I'm Roland Squire. And today's episode is a spoiler-filled conversation all about Jurassic World Rebirth. So if you haven't seen the film yet, hit pause and come back after. But seriously, it's been out a couple of weeks now. Make it a priority. To help me dive into the Dino Chaos today, I've got two returning guests. Author and film critic James Motram, an author, archivist, and uh keeper of the drastic knowledge. More than I could ever attain. Uh it's Derek Davis. Welcome back, both of you. Thank you so much for joining me.

SPEAKER_05 6:16:24

No problem. Good to be here. Yeah, thank you for having us back.

SPEAKER_08 6:16:28

So I'm gonna kick off with a simple question. How many times have we all seen the film? Uh James, how how about you?

SPEAKER_05 6:16:35

Uh twice. Uh so once uh at a press screening a few weeks before it came out, and then I think I left it a few days after it came out in the UK, and then uh I took a friend to see it because she wanted to see it. Yeah, also fantastic sort of addition. I got to see the Odyssey trailer, which I had no idea was being released ahead of um rebirth. So that was a real bonus. Uh I didn't even know about until I literally sat in the cinema. So yeah, I've only done it twice. Might do a third time just so I can see that trailer again.

SPEAKER_08 6:17:07

And and Derek, how how many times for you?

SPEAKER_10 6:17:10

Uh it's actually yesterday as of yesterday, it was six times for me, which is it's quite a bit. Whoa. So you're welcome, Universal. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 6:17:20

Yeah. I I I'm on three. So I first saw it at the press screening, then I took my mate to see it, and then my partner, we were on a holiday, and she went, Well, if there's a rainy day, maybe, maybe we can go and see it. First day of the holiday, it rained, and so we were in a cinema watching Jurassic World Rebirth. So yeah, I've seen it three times and three different audiences as well, which was quite nice.

SPEAKER_10 6:17:44

Yeah, it's been interesting they get the different audience reactions. Like my first time was uh um, it was like the early Monday screenings that they had in the United States. I don't know why they didn't do it elsewhere, it's not really fair. It's two people trying to avoid spoilers for 10 days, but yeah, I went to that and you know, since not everyone really knew if it was gonna be rebirth, there was kind of like a little anxiety going into it that isn't normally there. Usually when you go to see a movie, you know what you're seeing. But and some people were just there who didn't even know that was gonna be rebirth, they were just like random, normal non-fans. How dare they, you know, be there? That was kind of like my least favorite screening, though, to be honest, because again, there was like that extra anxiety to it and everything. It just didn't really work well for me. But the second time was when you know the actual release date, and it was a Dolby screening, and that's honestly my favorite way that I watched it was the Dolby. Just to have the sound perfect, I think is really vital for any movie. And that's why I went like six times because I wanted to get the different like format experiences. Like I did uh 40X one time, you know, that's what the weather effects.

SPEAKER_08 6:18:52

Yeah, I still haven't done one of those. Uh, the closest one is like miles out in an industrial estate somewhere, but I can see how this film might work quite well without the amount of times it spends on the water.

SPEAKER_10 6:19:02

Yeah, you know, honestly, I was kind of disappointed. Like, I thought they were gonna use like the water spray a lot more than they did. I don't know if they're just trying to be conservative with the amount of water that they use each showing. But the motion seat's the best part. But then again, you could probably just go to D-Box and get that, you know, experience with the motion seat. But yeah, and they had like some light effects too and some wind effects. But again, I was I don't know if I just expected more because you know, I'm Mr. Theme Park guy. I'm like, oh, this doesn't feel like I'm on Jurassic Park the ride or whatever. Okay. And then I did like the screen X format where they add picture on the sides. Yeah, that's why I wanted to do that because I'm like, oh, it's Cinerama, it's back. Like that's you know, people who know their film history, you know, Cinerama used to be like in the the 60s, I think, or maybe even the 50s as well, where they you know had like a wider screen. And I don't know how they did it for this movie, though. I'm I don't know if they used AI extensions or they just use I'm not because there is definitely more image, but and they only did certain scenes, which I didn't know that. I thought it was gonna be the whole movie, but it's not. Um it's just like key sequences, but basically from like when stuff really starts heating up on the island till the very end, then they use the whole screen for the rest of the movie.

SPEAKER_08 6:20:19

But yeah, the one format it's missing is IMAX.

SPEAKER_10 6:20:22

I know. I'm really disappointed by that. That's the way I usually go see it. But Dolby's a nice substitute, but it's not it's not the same, man. Doesn't have the the big the big screen ratio, right?

SPEAKER_05 6:20:36

It's interesting you mentioned your anxiety because I think I read your comment, your reaction to having seen it on that Monday, that first time. I think it must have been on Facebook or something. I'd read it, and you were quite uh I wouldn't say down on it, but you were a little reserved, right? I mean, and we'll probably get into this in a minute, but you talked about how it doesn't expand the law or the mythology, which is entirely accurate. There's nothing inaccurate about that statement. But I was kind of thinking, oh man, he's not that into it. Like, because I came out the first screening like really excited. Yeah, I think I spoke to you straight away. Yeah, yeah, that's right. We spoke that day by chance. It was that day that I'd seen it. So I was kind of like, oh, Derek's not that into it. But clearly the fact that you've been another five times would indicate you are that into it.

SPEAKER_10 6:21:22

Yeah, I mean, it's it's grown on me quite a bit. Like, I still, I mean, we'll get to rankings later, I'm sure. But yeah, it's still not like at the high point for me, but I definitely like it more than I did that first screening for sure. And part of it, I guess, you know, just so people know a little backstory of real life, Derek. Um, you know, I fractured my ankle like a couple weeks before the movie came out, and also the day after my book published. So that was, you know, I didn't really celebrate much. So, but you know, so I had a fractured ankle, so I'm still in a um a medical boot, they call it. It's like it goes up to right below the knee, and it's like you made of plastic and like padding and stuff like that. It's very awkward to walk around and kind of lopsided, kind of hobbling. And you know, I I drove myself there. It's like a 40-minute drive to that Regal Theater. You know, luckily it's the leg that I don't use on the gas pedal. So don't worry. Yeah, I wish I had, you know, like uh some kind of like car that like a self-driving car. Kind of like in my book, actually.

SPEAKER_05 6:22:26

So you were you kind of like in a lot of pain when you were watching the the that first screening then?

SPEAKER_10 6:22:31

Uh not so much pain. I mean, because the pain luckily was mostly going away by that point because it was like a couple weeks or so after it happened, thankfully. Um, but no, it was still there. I mean, luckily, because you know, I'm just sitting in the theater for you know two hours or however long it is. So it I wasn't like really uncomfortable during the movie. It was just the process of getting there and then getting back afterward, because all the screenings for that Monday thing were at the same time. I think it was like 7 p.m. for us. That means I didn't get out till like past 10 or around 10 or so. So then I'm driving at night at the same time on a freeway and everything. It was just like I just it kind of hampered my mood a little bit too. Okay, but anyway.

SPEAKER_08 6:23:13

I've I've seen so yeah. I mean, James, what was your first kind of reaction coming out of it?

SPEAKER_05 6:23:18

Well, first reaction was kind of elation, really. Um, we always get asked by sort of publicists to kind of give give a reaction pretty much straight away. And I actually bumped into one of the publicists on my way down the stairs from the universal screening room, and I just kind of turned to her and I remember going, God, that was great. You know, just that that's just sort of natural reaction. That wasn't any kind of you know, journalistic trying to, you know, either pump things up or or whatever. It was just yeah, I felt like really thrilled by it. And then of course I had to try and come up with some sort of little phrase that I thought, oh yeah, let's see if they use this in their marketing. So I was kind of like, this is the best Jurassic in a decade. Is you know, that really only puts it up against the last two because obviously uh Jurassic World was 2015, so we can debate that, like you said, uh a bit later on in terms of ranking. But I, you know, for me it just felt like a really fresh, kind of simple take. You know, there's nothing too complicated about the story, but I really enjoyed the set pieces. You know, going back a second time, obviously I knew the beats, so I wasn't quite as thrilled. And I was kind of on the lookout more for little Easter eggs, really. Um, particularly one in the the Minimart uh on the island, you know, that little kind of uh well, gas station mini mart, I think it is. I don't know if you guys had read about this, but the it said in the production notes that the the art director fill or the art team filled the the minimal with kind of magazines like homaging to Spielberg movies like Back to the Future and Holtergeist. And I was like, right, I have to spot this. I have to spot this. And it is, I I guarantee you, I was kind of like drilling my eyes into the screen. It is nigh on impossible to see any racks of magazines. There's one shot, it's a very gloomy sequence for a start, you know. It's in at night time, and you kind of see a kind of what might be a rack of magazines in the background at one point, but there's no way of telling. So I was quite disappointed not to see some kind of Spielbergian Easter egg. So uh Dr. Pepper, though. Yeah, there's a lot of Dr. Pepper. Obviously, Snickers is probably having a rebirth itself after this movie, but um yeah, I know, but I did I did enjoy it the second time around. I mean, I did to put it up against all the other blockbusters this summer, it's easily the most fun I'd had. I mean, you know, Mission Impossible was kind of a bit of a dour experience, and what else? Thunderbolts was okay, but I didn't love it. You know, I I I just had the most fun in this, and obviously I'm somewhat biased, as in the way you two you guys clearly are as well. But you know, equally you're gonna be harsh critics if it if it doesn't work for you. And I just thought it worked on on an on you know, as a kind of an action adventure story, it worked really, really well. And that's that's what I like most about it.

SPEAKER_08 6:26:11

And it was nice seeing it at the press screening, everybody had to put their phones in a little plastic bag and seal it and put it under there. So no phone screens, no trailers, just straight into the film. So that was an amazing way to watch it for the first time. So that probably helped. And the free bar at the start was very nice. Um but uh I I did I recorded an episode where I had like seven questions about the film before I went in. And for me, it's all about hitting that experience of sitting down and watching a Jurassic or the first see if I can get back to that first Jurassic film. And I think uh when we got to the moment where the plane is flying to uh to pick up Duncan and you have the birth of the John Williams uh music, and I was like, You've you've told me. You've you've got me. You've got me in the moment that you understand how I as a fan love that bit of music and love those elements of this uh franchise or series. And because in the Jurassic World films, those music beats weren't given that sort of prominence, they were hidden under dialogue, I remember in Jurassic World, and that made me I was just like they're playing probably my favourite bit of music from the score, and it's under somebody talking about skincare, and I'm like, I I don't want this, I want to be hearing this music.

SPEAKER_05 6:27:29

But you can kind of understand where Michael Giacino would have been coming from as the first composer. Well, actually, technically he's the second composer because obviously there was someone different on Jurassic World. Yeah, Don Davis, John Davis, but you know, the first one to sort of take command of the new franchise, and he obviously doesn't want to just repeat the John Williams score, and it's difficult when you're up against probably one of the great scores of all time, so you can understand him trying to kind of play it down, and obviously Collins that would be Collins' decision as well, of course. But yeah, you're right. This time, I mean, the bit that got me, I will willingly say, first time around, the Titanosaurus in the field sequence, where it really strikes up the Williams score, and I genuinely had an emotive lump in the throat moment.

SPEAKER_08 6:28:15

Yeah, I didn't quite cry, but I wasn't far off it, and I was like I was I I'll I'll yeah, I was I was moist in the eye most definitely during that uh during that bit. And it was it was how the film stopped, and at several points during the film the sort of diegetic noise just died away, or you got an internal sense of so in a moment just before he touches the leg, Henry Loomis, he um all the sound goes apart from his uh breathing, and you just get his like ragged breathing of his excitement just before he touches it. And then of course the second he touches it, the Jurassic music comes in, and you're like, Okay, I know it, I know what you're doing to me, and it's working. You know, I think that's affiliated, damn it. Yeah, I know, exactly. It I I I knew it, it worked, and I loved it for the fact that it knew what it was doing and it it worked on that level for me, definitely, when I came out.

SPEAKER_10 6:29:10

See, this was another case where I wish I had a better first screening because the sound was also not very good in the theater that I saw it in, which again, if my original intent was to see a Dolby the first time, which is like if this ever happened again, if I could go back in time, I would just not have done it. I would have just waited till release date and seen it on the Dolby. Um, but I've done like press screenings before those, like I did it for uh Fallen Kingdom, and that was a fun experience, like you guys said, with you know, phones taken away, got the bar, and no trailers. So I mean, like, so I I definitely understand, and that was like a you know, it gave me like a a more positive feeling for that movie too, which I still have, even though it's it's goofy. Um but but yeah, no, I mean with Rebirth, you know, a lot did work for me. Like, I guess I'll start with this the T-Rex and the Lagoon and the River sequence. Like, I was super hyped for that. I was covering it on my channel, I was analyzing.

SPEAKER_08 6:30:07

We spoke about it on the episode that we kind of went through all the iterations of the script and how it slowly got smaller and smaller until it completely disappeared from that first Jurassic.

SPEAKER_10 6:30:17

So sad. But I mean, we understand why, because I think white, like we probably talked about, you know, it was you know, just to help with the budget and everything, and just the mechanics of making it work back then. You know, they didn't it was hard enough for them to do what they did. So to do like in the water on top of it would have been, you know, too much, most likely. But I was actually really happy with that sequence, even on the first watch. I was like, this is you know, pretty much what I was hoping and from what I saw. And then it adapted the sequence from the novel and even from the ideas they had for the first movie really well. And they even improved upon it in some ways. Like there's no annoying Lex type character, you know, going nah na na na na oring any, you know, coughing or anything silly like that. So I think they actually improved upon it in in several ways. Um, my only wish was that it went on longer. Like, you know, in the book and stuff, they keep going back to them on the river. The T-Rex keeps pursuing them, but I understand why they didn't, because you know, it's already a long movie.

SPEAKER_05 6:31:18

But it's quite an interesting point, which I don't think it happened, Rodan, when we spoke previously, but I I did a short little TV to camera interview with Gareth Edwards at the at the press junket, and I asked him about the River sequence, uh, obviously, as you as you would. And it turns out, and this is slightly blowing my own trumpet, but actually, yeah, Derek, this is kind of blowing your trumpet too. So, yeah, he basically said in his answer that he had no idea when he read the script and then he shot the movie, shot the sequence, came to the editing phase. He had no idea at that point that that sequence came from the book, came from the Crichton novel. So basically the story goes, this is how he relayed it to me. That him and his editor were working, you know, in London all all hours, you know, trying to cut the film. Obviously, they were on this crazy, insane schedule, uh, you know, to as they have been on this entire movie. So he said at one point they had about half an hour off because they were waiting for delivery of something or other. And they decided to go to a comic store in London just to get some fresh air. And the editor bought a copy of and he said my book, so I'm assuming he's talking about the script book here rather than the uh ultimate visual history book, because the script book has got a ton of stuff in it about you know the storyboards from the the junked river sequence. And the editor, you know, took the book back to the office, it was just clicking through it, and then he went, Oh my god, there was a river raft sequence originally intended for Jurassic Park, and they had no idea. And he basically said, um, he basically said, Well, thank god I didn't know because otherwise I'd probably have been terrified to shoot a sequence at Spielberg at least one point contemplate and shoot it. So then yeah.

SPEAKER_08 6:33:11

That's crazy. It's amazing that that was never relayed to the fact to him previously.

SPEAKER_05 6:33:18

Well, I I find that strange, but at least that's how he told it to me. I mean, I'm sure someone must have told him at some point, but maybe he forgot. But you know, if it's just a sequence in the in the story in the script, why would you necessarily he said he read the book when he was 17, but obviously that's a long time ago now and never gone back to the book. So I guess he just forgot that sequence. Oh, that's good.

SPEAKER_08 6:33:41

I mean, a clear standout for me. I was, you know, as as a Jurassic fan, knowing that that was going to be in it, and it was just the best reaction in all three screenings has been the moment where she inflates the raft and then she pushes it over and the Rex has gone. And it is an amazing cinema conceit that that T-Rex disappears. But the audience reaction was an intake of breath on all three screenings, and it was brilliant.

SPEAKER_05 6:34:11

I didn't really buy that because I had to say when I watched it again, and then it's like, hang on, where is that massive dinosaur just disappeared to? That's kind of like the bit in Jurassic Park where the T-Rex comes into the rotunda at the end. You sort of don't question where how on earth it's got into this rotunda, which of course was a Spielberg idea. You just go with it, and I guess you just top of the frame. Yeah, top of the frame, exactly. But you just kind of go with this and it works. It works completely. I mean, the bit I think my favourite image that I took away from this entire film was the teeth bearing into the yellow, the world, the world's toughest inflatable, by the way, not being not being burst by T-Rex's teeth, but just that image of the the teeth almost coming through the the yellow inflatable material, uh, was incredible. I mean, I thought what a brilliant whoever conceived of that, whether that was Gareth or whether that was in the script, I don't know, but it just looked amazing on screen. That was just like that sums up a Jurassic movie to me, that that horrifying moment.

SPEAKER_08 6:35:10

Yeah, and I just wanted that self-contained action set piece, which I feel like the last two films, like a dinosaur-led action set piece, which I think the last two films have been not leaning into as much. And so it was nice having that full moment with that Rex, and it feels like an animal where it wakes up and then you see it having a little drink and the Ray Harryhausen like moment where the Ketz flies past and it looks up at it, and it almost like accidentally sees the bit of the raft and slowly turns its head and it doesn't need to run. It's like what's this? Yeah, so horrific. It's brilliant.

SPEAKER_10 6:35:50

Yeah, no, definitely. Yeah, and that is crazy though, they didn't know that it was in the bug because I mean it even kind of uh fits some of those original stories. Boards that are in the script book, you know, like especially the dock part of the sequence. So I don't know if um, because I I don't think we've seen storyboards from rebirth um from that particular moment. Someone recently who worked on the film posted storyboards of after that scene, um, when they're actually in the river on the raft and everything, but not of the lagoon part. So I'm wondering like if they saw those in the script book and maybe just like emulated it kind of thing, or if they just straight up used them. I mean, who knows? But it looked really like so spot on. Although I like the shed though, they made the shed kind of interesting and different instead of just like a cubicle kind of thing and kind of made it more interesting. And I do love on the raft because they really tried to make it be like, you know, these characters aren't doing something, you know, stupid. It's like, oh, why is she inflating it on the dock? It's because the raft specifically says do not inflate it in the water or you know, the cube will sink into the water kind of thing.

SPEAKER_08 6:36:54

So it's like ah and definitely shout out to um Matthew Clark, the lead graphic designer who I spoke to previously, and his detailed look at everything that went into this film. And we mentioned a little bit about the gas station scene and all the Easter eggs. Well, he shared an image of the the thing that the mute the mutaton knocks down from with the Rex. It's like a red Rex, and it wobbles its head and it makes a noise. That is based upon the Kenner T-Rex toy from from the 90s. Oh yeah. And he uh personally uh bent the tail of the unit because that was the first bit of the toy to break, if if anybody out there remembers those.

SPEAKER_05 6:37:36

I've always been in the box too. Yeah. Do you feel like that sequence where um the young girl gets in one of the fridges, uh refrigerators of that uh minimart, if I'm remembering this correctly now, is that basically a nod to the kitchen sequence in Jurassic Park? I mean it with the girl hiding in the you know, hiding in the metal uh box, whatever it is, where you mute it.

SPEAKER_08 6:38:03

I quite like the the idea that the mutaton at that moment sees itself for the first time. It almost it's like it suddenly realize kind of trying to work out what it is. It's like taking a second look at itself. Uh yeah, good. Yeah, yeah. So, James, as you've studied these previous six movies, I'm curious to see where you think rebirth sits in the legacy of those six films. In the sense of d do I where do I think it's like is it number two, number three, that kind of thing, or d does it feel more like a Jurassic Park film, or does it lean into more of Colin Trevaro's eras?

SPEAKER_05 6:38:40

That's a very good question. Um, well, uh, from having spoken to David Kepp about it, he very much was leaning back towards Jurassic Park, which obviously he adapted. I I feel like there's quite a lot of the lost world in here as well. I mean, obviously we know of the lost world having a you know a second island and so on and so forth, and that feels like they're returning to this idea. I think we said this before, maybe when we spoke, but I do wonder how many of these islands Hammond had um, you know, to do his RD. But yeah, I definitely feel like it's much more of a I mean, obviously the very beginning when they're in New York, it feels like a little nod to sort of the Dominion universe with the you know the dinosaurs now out into the world, but really it doesn't feel that similar to Collins movies. I think it's definitely much more back to the Spielberg, you know, in in tone, I'd say more than anything, you know, with the kind of humour. I wasn't really struck on the boyfriend character and his kind of you know, he he annoyed me less second time around, funny enough. The first time around he really annoyed me. But he does have some good scenes, especially when he goes for a leak uh and you've got the creatures right behind him. That was a great sequence, it has to be said. But I found him a slightly annoying character, but then you know, and you know, I mean Martin Krebs, the Rupert Friend character, he's gotta be like a miniature um well like Dodson from the book, yeah. Oh yeah, well also, particularly if you look in the book, where I believe he kind of throws someone overboard.

SPEAKER_08 6:40:15

Yeah, he kicks Sarah Harding off the boat on the way to the island, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 6:40:19

Uh, and here obviously he doesn't kick her off, but he doesn't rescue the girl either. So yeah, that that that's what I mean. And definitely when I spoke to Ket, he said not only, of course, did he did he you know cherry pick the river isle sequence, but he did pick some stuff out of the lost world as well. He didn't specifically mention that, but you can kind of see that. He also said there was quite a lot of science stuff um from uh from Malcolm's kind of speeches and things that he kind of not necessarily lifted, but you know, he's borrowing that that stuff that really the Loomis character is you know there's quite a lot of Malcolm in Loomis, I'd say, on some level. Um, although ironically, yes, we the one reference to Alan Grant we get is that Loomis studied under him. But you know, the the I so I do feel like it's really harking back to those those earlier films, and I think that's a good thing as well, because frankly, we know that they're the best of the they're the best of the series.

SPEAKER_10 6:41:15

Yeah, when Loomis says, you know, um that the world would shake us off like a summer cold, that's lifted, I think, pretty much directly from the Lost World book, from from Malcolm, like you said. So I I was I was pretty happy to to see that because that was definitely some good dialogue from The Lost World. Because I don't think Lost World's ever really been quoted from much, except from the Lost World movie itself, obviously.

SPEAKER_08 6:41:37

Yeah, there's some bits in Fallen Kingdom and Dominion, with again Malcolm's two appearances, you know, him giving the lecture. A lot of that's lifted from the start of The Lost World, and I think Fallen Kingdom when he's given in the Zenith. I think that's again from the same lecture that he gives at the start of the book. But yeah, I was I was just love the kind of character beats that Kep brought from The Lost World. But yeah, when he doesn't help the girl back onto the boat, I just scribbled in my notebook Krebs' Dodson like exclamation mark.

SPEAKER_06 6:42:11

The real judge the real Dodge.

SPEAKER_08 6:42:14

And the fact that it again slows down, we lose any sort of music, and you just get that contorted um expression on uh Rupert's friend's face as he's trying to work out what to do.

SPEAKER_05 6:42:26

It kind of went towards the end, um, with obviously the the sequence with uh Mahershula Ali and his flair. Kind of went a little bit apocalypse now for me, basically, more in a visual point of view than than at any any narrative point. But um, I actually interviewed um the cinematographer John Matheson, who told me that they basically uh weren't exactly sure as they were filming it what to do with Mahershula's character, i.e., would he survive or not? And I kind of think you can sort of see that because it I've I've seen a lot of people say, Oh, the ending it it it it came a little too abruptly, and I didn't really feel that when I watched it a second time around, but I can sort of see you know Maherschuler kind of returning, you know, having survived. It wasn't it was a slightly clunky moment in the story. It was kind of like, oh right, here's where he did survive, even though the flare, you know, went out, and then he's got another flare. And you know, I didn't that didn't quite work for me as an ending. Frankly, I would have not that I disliked him as a character, and I certainly thought his performance was great, but it would have been an amazing sacrifice, if you know what I mean, if he, you know.

SPEAKER_08 6:43:33

I I do get because I've heard that Gareth said that so I think it was scripted with two endings of you know, so from concept, Kepp didn't know what to do, um, or he gave the option essentially for for Mahershler to survive. And I think when or Duncan, the character before he was cast as Maherschler. And I wonder whether having Mahershul Raleigh in the film swayed uh the fact that we can't have this actor for one film if we want to bring him back, we can't.

SPEAKER_05 6:44:03

Well, that's it. He will obviously be a great character to bring back, so that's probably what they were thinking about more than is it a good ending, is it not a good ending? But yeah, for the first time.

SPEAKER_08 6:44:11

I quite like the idea that I like I've heard people say about the fact that he all the way through the film, it's leading us up to the fact that he is gonna sacrifice himself, even before you know it's gonna happen. He's he stays on the boat when it crashes, um, he's kind of confrontational with the father in the sense that he's uh taken his children into peril. Um, you know, why isn't he looking after his children? You know, we learn that he's lost his child. And so it's ev and all the things of him saying, I'm not gonna die in the jungle, I think is one of his lines. And so all the way through you just think he's gonna die at the end of this. And so I quite like the fact that the sacrifice is sort of robbed from him. That it's uh the the the the the uh the kind of heroic nature of Zora and uh Duncan, they're very much broken characters in this through prev through the work that they do and the lives that they lead, they they can't leave and lead a normal life. And so uh Zora's arc is to uh forget about the money and forget about herself, but to think more um widely. And Duncan is is um you know, he needs to let go that that anger and that f that grief of losing his son. And so it's nice the fact that he can do that and and live.

SPEAKER_05 6:45:30

I think that's yeah, that's that's kind of what I uh what I took from and let's face it, his other boat mates all get chomped fairly quickly, so you it would kind of not be that great if all four of them went down, basically.

SPEAKER_08 6:45:44

Yeah, I think in terms of the cast, it's got it's a stacked cast, you know, of big talent, you know, Jonathan Bailey, Scarlett Johansson, and Mahersha Raleigh. Did they bring the star power and kind of energy that you expected going in?

SPEAKER_10 6:46:00

I mean, honestly, I feel like they kind of were allowed to disappear into their characters a bit, where I didn't feel like I was seeing Black Widow on the island kind of thing, or you know, um uh Fiero on the island, you know, from Wicked or anything like that. So I mean, you know, they're they're good enough actors where I felt like they didn't let that kind of I guess you would call it ego, even though I don't think they're egocentric actors, but you know, like sometimes those kind of actors are to, you know, or they play themselves like the rock or something. But I think in this case they were able to just be their own unique characters and you know, they just use their their good acting. I will say though, and I don't know if this is how you guys feel about it, I feel like the first like 20 minutes of the movie after the prologue bit are like really glacial and pacing to me. And I I know that they're setting up new characters and the new direction of the story, but I don't know. I just the first time I watched it, especially, I was like, oh no. Like I felt like it was just going a little, a little too slow up until the moment when the yacht gets attacked by the Mosasaur, the family's yacht gets attacked by the Mosasaur. Then I felt like okay. And there was like more moments that worked for me after that. But like, I don't know. I like I feel like the little conversation uh with um Scarlett Johansson's character and Roshalley, like even that, I felt like there was too many long pauses, or is this something got missed in the editing? I felt like that's I don't know if you guys agree with that or not.

SPEAKER_05 6:47:36

No, I have to say I didn't really think that because I actually quite liked the the beats that they allowed the character. I'm not it's it's an action adventure movie. You're never gonna have reams and reams of character development and dialogue, but and you know, looking at it bluntly, the the stuff about uh um Zora having lost her partner on her last mission and and what you just said, Roland, about um Duncan's kind of lost child and everything, you know, yeah, it it's fairly signposted kind of emotional beats here. Yeah, it's it's not particularly subtle work from Kent, but I thought there were there were moments that at least allowed the characters to breathe. Again, with the family uh on on the yacht, you know, the fact that the this boyfriend has tagged along and he's kind of annoying, and you know, the the father's obviously trying to impress his daughter, I suppose, on on his teenage daughter, or at least for Kate her on some level. I thought there was kind of enough character development there. I didn't find it too slow. I was kind of like, as you said, they've got to set these these guys up. We don't know who any of these people are. And yeah, so I I I didn't find it and I, you know, just to go back to what you were saying about Star Power, I thought Scarlett was tr terrific in this movie. I I mean I you know, I've always I you know, I kind of like the the Marvel movies, so she's always been very good at Black Widow, uh just playing Black Widow, you know, but I just thought she was perfect for this, you know. She brought that a little bit of that action heroine, you know, vibe, but I felt that she was quite a real character, just kind of world weary, yeah, you know, mercenary as as she gets called at one point. Yeah, I really just yeah, just thought she was, you know, she handled the action really, really well. She just had a sort of certain cynical vibe about her. You know, Bailey Bailey was great in that, you know, well, kind of half Malcolm, half Alan Grant role, whichever way you want to look it. But and Maherschal is was was very good as as Duncan. But yeah, I really thought she led the line. And I I suppose it's the fact that we all know she's a massive Jurassic fan. I think that probably put a put me on side with her as well. It's like, yeah, this is someone who really wants to be here. It's not a paycheck job here, obviously. She she's and I I thought that really shone through. I thought she just really loved being on that set. And apparently, from what people have said, she was like, you know, as they say, number one on the cool sheet. They were in horrific conditions in Thailand, in the jungles, you know, leeches and snakes and god knows what else they were dealing with. And she she was apparently a real trooper. So which again, none of that is to do with what you see on screen, but I think it just shined through that she was a proper leader, like offset and and what I suppose on set off camera, and then actually on screen as well. I think that really shows through that she's you know, there's that bit when they when they land after the boat crashes on the island, and she's she's not playing the hero here. She's like, right, let's get in, let's get out, you know, let's not screw around, basically. And I don't know, I really believed her as this kind of you know, we're taking control, right? Yeah, exactly, taking control.

SPEAKER_08 6:50:39

Yeah, she's almost like manic, like in certain places. Like you feel like she's in such this difficult situation, but it feels like that's where she really thrives. It's the other parts of her life that are where she doesn't. Like she loves throwing herself off the cliff uh just when they're going to get the Quetzal Quatlus DNA and stuff. She's just like, it's right, it's just like being.

SPEAKER_05 6:50:59

She goes like this is fun, as she's like absailing down the enormous rock that Bailey's having trouble trouble with.

SPEAKER_08 6:51:05

Yeah. And I I think they they all feel like they've got good chemistry with each other. Like it feels like a natural um relationship that they all have on on camera. They all feel quite connected, which is really nice to see. You know, I think part of my issue with the the last three Jurassic World films was sometimes the how the characters talked and acted to each other was always to try and drive that plot forward or to give the audience some information rather than actually sitting down and you thinking that you were watching two people having a chat who knew each other, who really cared about each other. And y they are big signposty moments in in i in the film, but with Dominion and uh Fallen Kingdom, I think Claire and Owen's relationship, which should have been the strongest throughout those three films, sort of dissolves as as the films go on. You don't see a a sense that they are because those films are so massive, it doesn't allow itself the time to actually get us invested in their relationship because they're off on another dino adventure in about 30 seconds.

SPEAKER_05 6:52:13

Well, yeah, the first film the the Trevaro film really did that. The first Trevaro film really I thought did that very well. It had that sort of scrubble romantic comedy by and you're right, it can't romancing the stone. Yeah, exactly. And it kind of gets lost, you're right, in Fallen Kingdom and Dominion particularly.

SPEAKER_08 6:52:28

Did you think so the the design of the film and maybe Gareth Edwards' vision for Jurassic? Because I and and and David Kepp as well, they they have been touted amongst fans, and in the lead up to this, you know, David Kepp being wheeled out, not wheeled out, but oh my god, what happened? He strode out um uh to to talk to it's interesting having a a script writer so front and centre in all the marketing for a film. Um and I think they knew that fans and people, you know, this is a return to form, and then getting somebody uh like Gareth with his visual style felt uh felt perfect, really. You know, do you think they delivered in what you expected in expected from them?

SPEAKER_05 6:53:13

Yeah, I think so. I mean he's I couldn't literally, if you'd said right, here's every Alice director working in Hollywood today, who would be the best choice? And given he did Godzilla, then he did a Star Wars movie, then obviously he had his own, you know, very imaginative sci-fi with the creator. To me, it just felt like he'd been building up to making a Jurassic film. It it couldn't have been better. And he can well kept said something to me which is is spot on. He just said Gareth can handle scale, and he can. I mean, you know, the those last three films are huge, and he's not daunted by scale. And yeah, he I I couldn't think of when I heard it was Edwards meets Cap, I was like, Well, that couldn't be better, really. Someone suggested the other day uh to me that they'd love to see like going forward, this is not gonna happen, obviously, but going forward, who who would who would be amazing to do it next? And they said, Well, what about James Cameron? Given that he had originally bid for the to do the original movie and and got picked to the post by by Spielberg. Now, obviously Cameron doing an R-rated Jurassic, I think we'd all be in in line for that one. But outside of him, I can't think of anyone that's better than Edwards. And yeah, I think he does deliver. I don't think it's just uh you know a generic dinosaur movie. I think there is plenty of his I mean he's just so good with set pieces. I mean that I I mean while I mentioned the titanosaurus sequence where we all had our you know a lump in the throat in the the Mosasaur sequence at the beginning, you know, in the in the first third of the movie, I literally was watching it and my heart was pounding at points uh on that first viewing because it was that exciting. And I'd seen, you know, we'd all seen the trailers and there are bits and pieces in the trailers, and I'd seen a couple of other little sequences as well, but yeah, that w when it's all put together and it's just you know barreling past you on the screen, yeah. My heart was kind of leaping out of my chest. And I thought, well, given that and the lump in the throat moment, just taking those two sequences alone, let alone the T-Rex River blast, that's three incredible sequences that have their own distinct flavour. And he nailed each one of them, really. I mean, you know, the the the the the cave aerial sequence, you know, I I could have it's not quite as exciting, and then we just talked a little bit about the finale, which you know I had my issues with the D-Rex, which maybe we can come on to in a minute. But generally speaking, though, just for those three sequences alone, he actually nailed well, him and the editor, of course, and everyone else involved, actually nailed those sequences.

SPEAKER_08 6:55:56

Yeah, but I I I I love the the the water sequence and the fact that it's a sort of new environment for a Jurassic film. I imagine from conception they knew that this was coming out in the summer of the 50th anniversary of Jaws, and so it is just baked into the script, and all of the visuals, particularly there's a moment where the sun is rising, it's dawn, and we get the boat going across the sun rising, and just think this is it could be the orca going across this water at the moment.

SPEAKER_10 6:56:30

Like it's my my my boat or whatever, I forget the exact exchange.

SPEAKER_08 6:56:34

But it's my charter and it's my boat. Yeah. And he's like he's like leaning against the deck and he's having his morning coffee as the sun rises. And it's allowing those uh just those visuals, those really strong vigils and letting he knows I think Gareth also knows how to let a a location work. So uh the fact that this film was filmed a lot on location, I think enhances this so much because it feels so w real. You know, it's it's hot, it's sweaty, it's uh and the fact that you think at any corner you could just stumble across a dinosaur. And I like the fact that um when Xavier knocks down a load of trees, you know, really noisily, and you don't even see the dinosaur that he disturbs, but it's absolutely massive and it you know leaves. And you just think, yeah, it it feels I could I can honestly believe there being dinosaurs in this place.

SPEAKER_10 6:57:31

And even the like the small little amphibious looking creatures that you see in the background almost felt like a Star Wars movie where you're like trying to see what's in the background all the time. That little thing, little Easter eggs almost could be there just to kind of enhance the world a bit. But I mean, like I still like you guys were saying earlier, I do love that they do take the the time to have some quiet moments. Um, because like I said, I do like having characters like expanded upon, you know, kind of like when uh Marshal Ali, you know after he crashes, after the big Mosasaur sequence, there's that little moment where he pulls out the picture of his son, you know, from the dashboard or whatever, and he's like, you know, we made it kind of thing. And I'm like, you know, just little moments like that, I think, do add up, which is great. Or even like the the scene right after the yacht gets attacked by the Mosasaur, you know, it's at night, and we have Scarjoe sitting, you know, at the edge of the boat, and she just has tears in her eyes. And then, you know, Bailey comes out and you know, talks to her, and we get a little bit more about her. In a way, I kind of feel like that's where more of that story should have come out, but that's just me. Um, but either way, that was still just like a really great little moment that I think really adds to you know her character. And this it does get well paced again in my mind after you know all that's going on.

SPEAKER_05 6:58:48

I guess on some level, if these three actors return for the sequel, which one would assume they would, you'll learn more about their backstories, perhaps you know, in in a subsequent adventure as well. So then, you know, again, I guess we'll come on to this, but where on earth this franchise is going after this episode, I cannot tell. But yeah, but you know, hopefully they will expand a little bit, you know, and they will become huge parts of the Jurassic mythology, just in the way Owen and Claire were, and obviously, you know, the the OG characters were as well. So yeah, I think you know, it's a it's a an incredibly promising start, I thought. Uh, it'll need a very, very clever writer uh, you know, to to give us something fresh to you know to sort of continue on this rebirth, but um it is a very promising start, definitely.

SPEAKER_08 6:59:40

Yeah, and so if we talk about the new thing of this film, which sort of new, I suppose we've had hybrids, but we've never had mutants. And we have the D-Rex and we have the mutatons. Did they work in adding anything new to the series for for both of you?

SPEAKER_10 6:59:56

Well, not not really, honestly. And I only say that because I I love their designs, I think they're design gray, they look really freakish and weird and interesting. So it's not really about that, it's just you know, they're kind of not even really part of the movie except for the beginning and the end. And that's what I think is kind of odd. It's like, why would we set this up as like a major thing when it's really not even you know, throughout the movie? And and they even talk about on the beach, like, oh, all the dinosaurs here are freakish things that are left behind. It's like, well, no, not really, just those two. Yeah, like everything else is kind of just normal-ish dinosaurs. Um, yeah, they're scary ones, but you know, they're not like freakish mutants. So I think they kind of set up like expecting more of that than what we actually got. So in that way, it was a little disappointing. And like we'll even know that the D-Rex is called the Distortist Rex. We never see it labeled that way or hear the name. It's just D-Rex the whole time. Yeah, with the mutadons, we see their name on the embryonic chamber or whatever. Um, but I don't know, and that's the thing that leads into well, I won't go too far, but that's why for me the movie lacks lore because it's like, what what was this mutant? Like, what were they trying to do with it? What's the purpose of it? You know, we never learned anything, and that's just kind of disappointing. And it even though I do I did warm up to the movie quite a bit, that things like that still remain disappointments to me because they're just not in the movie.

SPEAKER_05 7:01:25

Yeah, I mean, I can't really add anything to that. I agree a hundred percent. Um, particularly this thing of having them at the beginning, which again, that sequence at the beginning is obviously a nod to the original Jurassic Park with the worker kind of pulled into the Raptor K. Yeah, I mean, I I don't know. We can whatever we think about the Snickers rapper, I'm sorry, but absolutely no scientist would just discard a wrapper in in a you know in a in a sort of highly contained, you know, controlled environment. But anyway, we can we can overlook that. Need a better hiring process, yeah. Terrible. But you're quite right. I mean, the fact that you get them at the beginning and then nothing really in the middle of the film, and then they just sort of pop back at the end, that didn't really do it for me. And you're right, it it could have worked better if we'd had perhaps more at the beginning, some kind of white coat lab assistant explaining more about these characters. Because I'm assuming, by the way, is it's supposed to be what 17 years before? So it's obviously what ahead of the new the new park that gets open in Jurassic World, not obviously ahead of the original Hammond park, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_10 7:02:36

That's what's confusing though, because there's two conflicting bits of dialogue in the movie. So, like early on, I think it's in the New York stuff, Krebs says, Oh, it was R D for the original park. He says, original park, but then on the beach scene on the island, he talks about oh, the theme park makers were wanting to appease to their audience, and so they made these mutant things. Like, okay, well, that's clearly addressing like the world era stuff. So I'm like, it can't be both, or is it both? It's a little bit more.

SPEAKER_05 7:03:05

I think it has to be R D for the park that ultimately opened, not the because otherwise we'd we'd be talking 30 plus years ago, whatever it is. So I think when you say original park, he presumably really meant the original park that actually opened rather than the park that went wrong that never opened. But yeah, it's a little it's a little confusing. Um but yeah, we could have done with a sort of you know, a scientist type character to give us a little more about the the mutatons, etc. Maybe we'll get that more in the second one, who knows? You know, maybe that's where the series will go with those creatures somehow escaping, or we'll see.

SPEAKER_08 7:03:45

They they don't really give themselves because at the moment that the distortus arrives at the end, Krebs, who is the only person who might know what it is, has already escaped and he's on his way to the dock. So he's the only character that that could conceivably say this is whatever it is, this is what it is, and you know, expect because he knows that there was an accident because he mentions it or alludes to it on the sh on on the boat. But he um yeah, so they kind of paint themselves in a corner that they can't explain it because they got nobody realistically that at that point for our characters and the the the the the eyes of us as an audience to actually yeah, just give give across those basic bits of information.

SPEAKER_10 7:04:26

Yeah, it's that's what makes me not know where they're gonna go with this, because I mean I feel like in a way it's almost written in the corner because now they've basically killed off all the dinosaurs except for the ones in you know the equatorial regions, and specifically on this island, uh, for the most part. And, you know, so okay, we're isolated dinosaurs again. We're just getting away from the island with dinosaurs again. And the only real plot thread that I can see forward involves like the the cure that they have obtained. And because I know Kreb said in the beginning of the movie um that there's other competitors, apparently, and that you know, the owner of the company really you know wants it, you know, like really quick and everything. I think it was Miss Parker actually. Yeah, so I mean, but the thing is, but then is it really about the dinosaurs anymore? That's the thing that's weird, and it's like, I mean, I kind of don't mind that. I mean, I was one of the few people that didn't didn't hate the locust stuff from I like the locust stuff.

SPEAKER_05 7:05:31

I didn't mind the locust stuff, I have to say, on record there. I thought that was kind of cool. I think I kind of think maybe now they'll just go for like some sort of ER medical drama with with dinosaurs in the background as they race to find this cure for for heart disease. But yeah, I I I think you're right. It could turn into some kind of corporate espionage tale where there are, as you say, battling companies, but that's about all I can think of, really.

SPEAKER_10 7:05:54

But yeah, but people want that though, like the audience is what I'm like concerned about, I guess.

SPEAKER_08 7:05:58

I mean, I wouldn't mind, but I feel like you know, the audience that they're trying to appeal to, I don't think that would yeah, you've still got to have that those action sequences, and you've still got to have I always I think currently, and I c I heard this um on another podcast or somebody talked about this, but the fact of Jurassic, you know, even though the marketing gave you pretty much the whole film before you film came out in the adverts, the a it hasn't hurt the box office at all for it. Because I think people I think the only way to say a Jurassic Park film is on is in in in in the cinema. That is literally the only only way that you can see this properly. And I think uh it's the experience of sitting in a cinema and seeing a dinosaur at that size. And so it's uh it's almost a plot is lower down to experience for the audience. I think as a sort of like generalization of people going to see the film that aren't massive uh super fans, it's that adrenaline rush. And it's similar to like Top Gun Maverick. I can't think of the plot for Top Gun Maverick, but I remember watching it and having an amazing time because you can't tell people what it feels like to sit down and say, Oh, Tom Cruise did this amazing stunt, he's all these like you can't you can't give that to somebody unless you see it yourself.

SPEAKER_05 7:07:17

And the problem is, do we go back to another island story, which is clear where the best of those movies have worked? No question. I mean, even you know, we all probably have different opinions on the lost world and the San Diego sequence. I kind of enjoyed it, but you know, it there's something different when they put the dinosaurs on the mainland, whether it's San Diego or or elsewhere, it doesn't work quite as well. And I can't really put my finger on why it's just something to do with that jungle-like terrain of an island. It's it's a kind of well, you're isolated on an island, you can't really escape unless you find a boat or something or a helicopter. And helicopters obviously, as we know, get swatted out of the sky. So yeah, I I I don't know. It would be interesting if they do continue with this medical story, whether we we go back to the to the mainland now, you know, presuming you the states and or maybe go somewhere completely crazy that they haven't been in before, like I don't know, Asia or something, you know? And you know, a totally different kind of landscape. But obviously, like you said, they put back themselves into a corner about the fact that the that the creatures are now maiming in this equatorial region. Difficult. I mean, they could probably ride a way out of that one. I mean, climate change or something, you know. Yeah, maybe a different landscape might help, but I don't know. There's something about doing it on the mainland that doesn't work quite as well, or at least it didn't work. I mean, in a way, Dominion, it wasn't an island, it was the valley, effectively, where Dodson's you know, biasing uh compound was, but it's kind of like an island, isn't it? Yeah, there's no way to escape. And Fallen Kingdom, it was kind of like an island in the sense that it was this contained space of the house. Yeah, so you need some form of a contained space to make it work.

SPEAKER_10 7:09:05

I'm just worried now that they're they're kind of going in circles. You know what I mean? That's that's I mean, yeah, I get it. Like, yeah, and that's um because I know we're we're you know, if they do another movie, it'll be the eighth movie, so obviously that's gonna happen. But then I don't know, the the lore enthusiast in me is screaming like, oh, what do I make of all this anymore? How many islands are there? Like you said, Jace.

SPEAKER_05 7:09:30

Look at what they did with Star Wars, whereas I thought they did a pretty damn good job for number seven, i.e., the Force Awakens. Yeah, he did not have a proper plan as to how to carry on that story beyond seven, uh, and they really screwed it up, basically. Now, of course, they've kind of revived it by using TV uh you know, you know, shows and so forth on Disney Plus, but they really need to think carefully. I think the one thing is here, you've got Spielberg and Ket still very much interested in carrying on this story. Now, whether they are gonna be writers on it, actually, yeah, and Frank Marshall too, and Pat Crowley. So, yeah, you know, the that I think the the guardians of this franchise are the people you want to be in charge, but they still want to come up with good ideas, and you know, who knows?

SPEAKER_10 7:10:14

Maybe they'll Well, who knows what they'll do? We'll see. I was just gonna say my my uh amusing idea from the Outpost podcast that I said um before was oh, okay, so the beginning of the sequel is they're in the boat, and then the Mosasaur comes out of the water, makes them go back to the island, so we're just immediately back on the island.

SPEAKER_05 7:10:33

Like a tractor beam is pulls them back in.

SPEAKER_08 7:10:35

Yeah, like a tractor beam. I I like the idea. Um, this is not mine, this is uh Caleb. He that using the uh kind of dispute script from Jurassic Park 3 and the idea of Loomis being so I that in my mind from from what Caleb said is you have Loomis going back to the island uh covertly without any assistance, a bit like Levine does at the start of um the Lost World novel to to research. He just wants to be he's traumatised by the event and needs more from it. And then on the mainland, you may have Zora and Duncan needing to lead that operation to try and uh keep the samples away from Parkogenics, but also the draw of trying to get Lumus off and who knows, whatever he might discover on that island, and maybe that the samples uh I think in the outposting that that then maybe they're not safe. There's something that's on this island that is not good. And I I I still think about the the DX virus from the Lost World novel and the fact that that could get out, and so I I you know if you're going back to the books, there are a few things like that that can still, or are new script ideas that can still come out to play maybe in the future.

SPEAKER_05 7:11:52

Are you saying you don't want the John Sayles script uh that was never made uh brought Brian as number eight? I mean, it's got some crazy shit in it. Some people do want that.

SPEAKER_08 7:12:02

I know, yeah. Some days I'd take that. It's a shame that Roger Corman's no no longer around because I think that would have been right up his street.

SPEAKER_10 7:12:09

The mutant human dinosaur hybrids, yeah. Or um some people uh have also joked and said, Oh, Dolores is actually carrying the DX virus, little do they know, and she's gonna infect everybody now that she's off the island.

SPEAKER_05 7:12:24

I haven't really looked into this, but I was sort of I'd forgotten that there's a character in Dominion called Delgado, I think, as well. It's quite a brief mention. I think it's like a politician or a commissioner or something. I may be getting that wrong. Oh, Fallen Kingdom, yeah. Is it Fallen Kingdom? Sorry. Um are they supposed to be related or is this just something to wine fans are? Probably the latter.

SPEAKER_08 7:12:44

Probably yeah, they probably don't even think that that that anybody will make those connections, probably. Yeah. I mean, if they didn't know the River Ralph sequence was in the first book, then uh That's true.

SPEAKER_05 7:12:56

Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_08 7:12:58

Yeah, it's interesting. I wonder whether they're gonna bring back any legacy characters again or whether we're just sticking with these three. I I feel like it's inevitable at some point that Ian Malcolm is gonna turn up again. There's a relationship between Scarlett Johansson and Jeff Goldblum and and Jonathan Bailey as well, because they're all in because he's in Wicked. So I just feel like it's inevitable at this point that Malcolm will crop up at some point.

SPEAKER_05 7:13:23

It kind of is, but that didn't didn't really work brilliantly in Dominion. I mean, it was nice to see them interact a little bit, but I don't know, it didn't quite do it for me in perhaps the way we'd all hoped. That's the problem with bringing legacy characters back. You have so many expectations. I guess a little cameo like he had in Fallen Kingdom would be fine. Yeah. But I don't know, integrating into the whole into the whole story, I'm I'm not sure. Oh well, we'll see. What about like you know, Jurassic World, as in from the previous trilogy? Any of those characters, like uh Justice Smith's character, for example, or I I want Lowry back from the first Jurassic World.

SPEAKER_08 7:14:02

You need some tech guy, don't you? Because that seems to be the second film that always has some sort of guy with more knowledge about tech or something about the island. So that's always a new character, seemingly comes into the second of all of the films. Almost a bit like Eddie Carr in The Lost World and Justice Smith in um in Fallen Kingdom. There's always those characters that suddenly crop up who don't like the environment that they're in at all.

SPEAKER_10 7:14:26

Well, that's why I think Lowry was supposed to come back. I think for Fallen Kingdom, he was supposed to be um, he was supposed to be uh the character that goes with Claire to the now I'm forgetting his name, Justice Smith's character. Um but then he's also supposed to be in Dominion, like you said. Um but then he couldn't make it for scheduling reasons, so then they just used to I think that was a COVID thing, wasn't it, or something or something on that?

SPEAKER_05 7:14:48

Well, obviously, every as everything got affected on Dominion by COVID.

SPEAKER_08 7:14:53

I'd like I'd like if if they brought back Malcolm, I'd like them also to bring back Kelly. I feel yeah, I feel he works quite well when he's got somebody he can work against that like you know, that's a family member with Malcolm. I quite like it.

SPEAKER_10 7:15:04

Sarah Harding. I mean, she feels like right at home to go to this island and I mean she's kind of an adrenaline junkie too. Maybe oh no, love triangle with uh Scarjoe's character, Sarah Harding and Henry Loomis.

SPEAKER_05 7:15:19

You know I have to say that's a good idea, good shout though, because no one would really expect Julianne Moore's character to come back because she's not regarded with the same in the same breath as the main three characters, but yeah, why not? I think that's a really good idea.

SPEAKER_08 7:15:34

I mean, she's a fantastic actor.

SPEAKER_10 7:15:36

I think she's she's expressed she's wanted to come back too, so it's like well, I think you know, Scarlet.

SPEAKER_08 7:15:43

I think just get out there and and and start working on these people and get yeah and and and get and get them involved.

SPEAKER_05 7:15:50

She's a last world fan, prove it.

SPEAKER_08 7:15:52

Yes. Well, yeah, I was wondering if there was anything else that you wanted to touch upon.

SPEAKER_05 7:15:56

Are we gonna rank where we put yes rebirth? Let's do that. Oh no.

SPEAKER_08 7:16:00

Let's do that. So yeah, let's do our let's do our rankings now. So um James, do you want to go first?

SPEAKER_05 7:16:05

God, it is difficult because I'm gonna put it third behind Jurassic Park, obviously. I think that's gonna be obviously our number one, presumably for all of us. Um, and then I will go with Jurassic World as number two, so I'll put Rebirth as number three. Nice. And then from there. Oh god. I mean probably then it would be The Lost World, then it would be Jurassic Park 3, then Fallen Kingdom, then Dominion. I'm not forgetting anything, am I? That's the seven, right? Yeah, yeah. All right, you got you've got to do you both gotta do your seven now because I've done it.

SPEAKER_06 7:16:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 7:16:37

Well I I think that's actually my list because it's Jurassic Park, and then also Jurassic World for me, which I know shocked some people on when I revealed that, but it's true. I I really do love it. Um, and then Lost World, and then Rebirth, and then JP. Mine was slightly different because I had Rebirth, then Lost World. Oh, okay, yeah. No, I still I still have Lost World above rebirth, for me, for me at least. Yes, that's the one where it's different. But then um Fallen Kingdom and Dominion, they always those are the two that always flip-flop for me. And like, which one do I like more at the end? Because I do like all of them for different reasons, but but it's like Fallen Kingdom is like it's kind of like a Roger Corman movie, like you like you alluded to, like a Roger Corman with the budget and a little bit less violence, you know, because it's just such a goofy, insane story decent price coming coming in at the same time.

SPEAKER_05 7:17:30

I mean, it's funny because I never really you know vibed with Fallen Kingdom when I first saw it, but when you as you say, when you go back and analyze it more, there are some incredible sequences in it, such as the you know, the volcano eruption and Ted Levine's death in in the cave. One of the best deaths in the entire prancho. So Fallen Kingdom doesn't have anything about it, it's got a ton of great stuff in it. It just it's it's up against some really good movies. That's what it boils down to.

SPEAKER_10 7:17:58

Yeah, and it's in a weird blender of stuff. Uh and then I love the the Brachiosaurus death was like the one of the few times where I actually did tear up watching, especially the first time I saw it. I because I didn't since I didn't went to the press screening for that one, I was not spoiled at all about that coming or anything, so it was just completely unknown. Thank goodness, because I was really, really happy about that. Um yeah, so I guess it would be Fallen Kingdom and then Dominion. But again, then I think of Dominion and the return of the original trio. So I'm like, oh, but I love that too, even though they didn't do it that well, but it they're still there, so it's still nostalgic and all that crap. So anyway, that's my that's my ring.

SPEAKER_08 7:18:38

Nice. Um, yes, mine's obviously Jurassic Park. Then I'm gonna throw a curveball. My next is Jurassic Park 3.

SPEAKER_05 7:18:46

Whoa.

SPEAKER_08 7:18:46

So that's my number two.

SPEAKER_05 7:18:47

I'm there with Joe Johnson will be happy to hear that.

SPEAKER_08 7:18:50

He will be, and and and and Daniel Stephen as well. Um it's it's the film that I really just just just i i it hit in the same way when I watched it the first time as I did when I watched Jurassic Park. That feeling, the the the fact that the jungle feels more atoned to the original Jurassic Park. I like the humour, I like the even though that script is all over the place. There's some really great set pieces, and I can hear Alexander Payne's and uh Jim Taylor's voice all over that um script. And it's nice to have normal people on the island and not just uh mercenaries and all that sort of thing. I think that's why the family worked for me so well in this film, because they felt like a a really good unit together, and actually they got stronger as the film went on. I really did like the first time I wasn't really annoyed by a child in a Jurassic Park film. Like they were all like even uh even Xavier, you know, I thought he's so annoying, but he just made the dad look even more normal and kind of in that he was just uh helping just trying to uh keep face and keep these. It's keep everybody alive. And when he kicks people off the boat and he says, Come on, we've got to jump because these idiots are going to the going to this dino island. We're not going, you know, we're not staying with them. And he makes that decision to take his family off and to go and save his his other daughter. Um so yeah, I that's why um Jurassic Park 3 is my number two. Then it's probably Rebirth. Rebirth is probably my number three after that. And then The Lost World, then Jurassic World. Actually, it's probably Fallen Kingdom, then Jurassic World, then Dominion. I really I was so muted with Jurassic World when I first saw it. I think I've still not got over myself what waiting 14 years for Jurassic Park 4. I feel I've got there now with Rebirth. Rebirth does feel like that. Film that I was almost expecting would happen after Jurassic Park 3, the tone and feel of it all. But yeah, Jurassic World just I I uh there's some I think it really picks up when you get to when the raptors get out and it's at night and the raptors are scary, and I like the reveal that the Indominus has raptor DNA of it, and then they all turn round. I love that sequence, and I love the fight at the end of the Moses or that's all great, but it just didn't it's it's like straight out of vintage Hollywood feels like it's just a weird moment when he grabs um Claire Deering and gives her a kiss. Like really like pulls her in firmly, and you just think, I can just hear Max Steiner like swelling up behind them or something. There's something, you know, something going on. And it just I felt uh that just took me out of that that moment in the film.

SPEAKER_10 7:21:38

But I think you have to have a like an appreciation of like romancing the stone style of humour, which I do. I mean, I understand not it's not for everyone, and especially to put that in the Jurassic movie, maybe was too far for people. So I I get that. But I I just thought it was a lot of people.

SPEAKER_08 7:21:53

No, I do get the romancing of the stone reference, yeah. Definitely and you know, in in Indiana Jones as well, isn't it? Yeah, it's very coded through that film. Um, all three of them, really. Yeah, Fallen Kingdom was the only one I saw once in the cinema and didn't really love the first time. Dominion, I wanted to love it. I was looking at the screen and saying, I want to love you. I want to love you more than I do because I'd waited so long to see Alan Grant back and Sam Neal. I have such a connection to that character. And to see I don't know, it just didn't like the bit where he's they're talking about cinnamon and putting cinnamon on his latte and his flat white. I was just like, can you be talking about dinosaurs, please? I'd much rather than you talked about that.

SPEAKER_10 7:22:36

I think that's the thing with like um any first viewing is usually pretty bad for me because it's like you always if you're a fan of something and you're going into it, you're gonna have expectations no matter what. Even if you try not to, they're still in the back of your mind subconsciously. So I feel like every time I see a new Jurassic movie, I'm always initially a bit disappointed. You know, some people don't go back to it after that disappointment, though. They don't give it a second chance or whatever. Um, I always do for Jurassic, but I understand why some people don't. Um, so some people never do get to get over the hurdle, but you know, all of us seem to have, you know, given them re-watches and to you know appreciate them at for what they are instead of what they're doing.

SPEAKER_05 7:23:19

That's also the problem of having one of the great films of all time as the first film in the franchise. No film will ever match up to that first experience. And it's not just that Spielberg turned out a brilliant. Okay, my slightly embarrassing story about Jurassic Park, if you like, was that when I saw it in '93, just as a you know, I was at university at that point, I just went to see it like everyone else. And I came out of that going, well, it wasn't as good as Jaws, which it isn't because Jaws is an incredible masterpiece. Jurassic is, you know, just behind it, but I wanted another Jaws at that point because I was obsessed by Jaws as a as a young man. So at the time at the time I I kind of like didn't appreciate its its brilliance. Then I went back to it uh a lot later, and then I kind of thought, oh yeah, actually, it is pretty good, isn't it? Um, but at the time I, you know, and now of course, I still don't think you're never gonna get that experience of uh to match up to that first film, I think for most people, because it's also that thing of seeing, well, obviously, what were part animatronic, part CG dinosaurs at that point, that was just brand new for everyone to see that kind of you know. Obviously, there'd been dinosaur movies before, but just kind of cheesy ones really, not in the same way. So it was so visceral. I think that was that moment of oh my god, special effects are changing, this is the new world, and it's yeah, become like that ever since. So you'll never match that experience. So hence I fully understand you, you know, Derek, not having anxiety ahead of everyone. It's always gonna be a little tough, it's never gonna match up to the original. Um, I mean, Star Wars is kind of the same. I mean, if you look at Star Wars and maybe take Star Wars and Empire Strikes Back as the they've kind of they're not the same film, obviously, but they're the first two, they're never gonna touch those movies in whatever you know, they're just not. You know, I thought Force Awakens did did do that to me. It kind of churned me up. I saw that three times in the cinema in quick succession, but then they blew it by doing the next two.

SPEAKER_08 7:25:29

Well, I I I'm I've uh again, um I love The Last Jedi. That's probably my one of my favourite Star Wars films, um, probably after the you know New Hope and Bat um The Empire Strikes Back. It's just because again, I think I get attached to certain directors and get a kind of idea of their vision, and I really like the ripping up of nostalgia of of the of The Last Jedi. Fans really, you know, a lot of fans really didn't, but I I quite like going into a film and somebody going, Oh, you thought we were gonna do this. Oh, hang on a minute, I'm just gonna toss away your dreams like Luke does his lightsaber. And I uh uh you know, the fact that he does the you know the calling back to uh the you know seven samurai, the idea of the you know Yojimbo, that sort of thing, that's the kind of character to that that Luke kind of in inhabits in that film. But uh yeah, so I get you know the idea that people with this film, Rebirth, some fans have really dis dis disliked it. I've I've heard from from a few. They really I heard on you know Outpost podcasts that certain people were very down on it.

SPEAKER_05 7:26:39

Well, yeah, you only had to look at the the reviews were crazy. They were all over like Rolling Stone absolutely hated it. They called it like a really generic movie, blah, blah, blah. Um, the Telegraph in the UK, he gave it five. Um, and you know, I I was sort of somewhere in between in terms of rankings, but I mean, I think I gave it four, but I saw, you know, I've seen you know, all five as in a five different stars kind of ratings. It's gone all over the place. And I think that's kind of cool because yeah, it's not for everyone, but for those it works for it really works. I mean, yeah, I kind of would assume most Jurassic fans, like hardcore Jurassic fans, would dig it because it's an exciting, you know, it brings it, but maybe not. Maybe you tell me, Derek, you probably are more tuned into that than I am.

SPEAKER_10 7:27:25

Yeah, I mean, I I've seen it very much in the middle, like you're saying with the critics. Like, even um, if even if you look on like on the RT audience score right now, it's only like in the 70s, which is lower than a little bit lower than Dominions, actually, which is kind of shocking. I think again, it comes to expectations, and not only that, we're doing expectations for a series that is now seven movies in. You have different age groups of people that grew up with different movies in the series first. Like some people grew up with Jurassic World as their first entry point into the series, and they have different expectations than people who are Jurassic Park fans, I think.

SPEAKER_08 7:28:02

Yeah. Um, and I think those films were quite lore-heavy and having a story that they could continue, you know, with Henry Wu and all of that stuff. It was Colin very much was about world building out, you know, making it bigger and bigger and bigger, and you know, connecting threads and all that sort of thing, which Rebirth does everything possible to not do that. It doesn't want to touch anything that was, you know, pretty it doesn't want to and you can kind of get where Kepp was coming from because if you look at you've got six films, you're like, Well, I'm definitely gonna piss somebody off, so I'm just gonna go back to that first film and the books and go, right, that's what I'm playing with here. The rest of it, yeah, I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_05 7:28:41

Do you do you think that's why we get very early on the objects uh in the mirror sequence in a Krebs car, and then you see the banner falling down. It's a bit like, all right, here are a couple of Easter eggs for you. That's it. We're not gonna do any more Easter eggs after this.

SPEAKER_08 7:28:56

Yeah, I think so. And I've heard that Spielberg wanted them to remove there was more in in the film, but during editing, he asked some. It's a note that I've heard him give to other people whose he's executing a uh producing a film of you know, a sequel of his, he'll ask, just dial it back on the reverence for me, please. You know, and it makes sense, you can see why he would want to do it because he knows what audiences are like.

SPEAKER_10 7:29:20

You know, there's a lot of like um background history on this movie. You know, it would be really nice if of someone you know here who has written other uh Jurassic Park history books before, if if they you know gave him the task to do a new book about the history of of rebirth, maybe. I mean, I'm I just throwing that out there for whoever's listening.

SPEAKER_05 7:29:42

No, I mean I did speak to the the publishers of the of the previous books, and I think they want to see, wait and see if it becomes a trilogy, because obviously that would then match the previous two books that I've done. Uh, you know, I did definitely want to do a one-off book, but in some respects it means well, it means waiting for at least another what five or six years, whatever it might be, however long it might take them to kick out another two movies. But yeah, it would be nice, wouldn't it? Uh to to deep dive into all that stuff.

SPEAKER_08 7:30:13

But I I think there was there's moments from the because when I looked, because obviously I've been looking at your books incessantly over the past six, six months, and when the when the apatosaur is lying down and it's in in the road in the in New York and it's got graffiti on it, I was like, I've seen that from the concept art in your book. And I was like, that's clearly somebody's been flicking through those books or you know, and looking at that as reference points for certain moments in this film, almost certainly.

SPEAKER_05 7:30:43

Well, I kind of hope that you know Universal and Amblin provide them all with you know a ton of you know artwork themselves, storyboards that I've probably never seen, that even you, Derek, have probably never seen. If they're not getting access to that kind of, you know, that kind of golden material. I don't know who is, I'd like to know.

SPEAKER_10 7:31:00

But yeah, I mean, um, in terms of like kind of back to what you were saying, Roland, about um, you know, people kind of being disappointed. Like, there's a friend that I know who's not like a huge Jurassic Park fan, and he saw it and he really did not like it. And I asked him why. And he said he really hated that they undid the dinosaurs being on the mainland thing. Um, even though he wasn't like a giant fan of Dominion, he still didn't like that they walked back on that. So I'm I have a feeling that's a part of why people don't like this one as much as we probably expected them to. Um in a way, it's almost like the last Jedi effect, where you know it changed things and people didn't like, you know, their expectations being subverted, kind of thing.

SPEAKER_05 7:31:47

I mean, in a way, you you don't need to have that line about oh, they've all they're all clustering around the equator now, because it's like they could still have this island that they go to and that the dinosaurs can still be all over the world. And like you say, that's kind of been changed now, and that's really only one line of dialogue effectively changed the entire well, it undid everything that the the the Trevaro trilogy did, which seems strange.

SPEAKER_08 7:32:14

Exactly to get it off the island.

SPEAKER_05 7:32:16

So hard to get them off the island that we're putting them back on an island or back in that region.

SPEAKER_08 7:32:20

I I really don't like the text at the start of the film. That's it. I don't like text in film anyway. Well we've got the same information. Exactly, it's completely redundant.

SPEAKER_05 7:32:30

You know, have you seen those have you seen Superman yet? The amount of text at the beginning of that film. Oh my god. Really? Yeah. I won't I won't spoil it because you guys haven't seen it, but my god, that makes Jurassic look nothing. So really that's shocking.

SPEAKER_08 7:32:45

It feels like a studio play because the film has everything that that text says. So it feels completely redundant. But I feel like people watching it were like, oh, but I had to wait 15 minutes to hear the bit about the equator line, or you know, Loomis explain what's going on because he does so when they're on the boat. They're clever people, they can they have ears, they they can hear what people are saying. And I was just like, okay, I've heard all this. And then I suppose for you for people coming to it, once you've been given that information, then the next three scenes are all about giving you that information again. So I can see why it uh does land in that sort of way for people. That's why it feels that way, doesn't he? Yeah, maybe it's just drawn out because you you've seen it already. You've heard you know what's going on.

SPEAKER_05 7:33:38

They told us instead of showing up right.

SPEAKER_08 7:33:40

Exactly.

SPEAKER_05 7:33:41

So a typical journalist question do you think the film will do over a billion dollars?

SPEAKER_08 7:33:46

I don't know. I it it I think it depends on I've heard rumblings and rumors that it might get an IMAX release late in the summer um after Superman and everything has cleared out and Fantastic Four. And then Jurassic might come back for a limited run in IMAX, and I that might push it over the edge. I think they're gonna keep it like they did Dominion, keep it in the cinemas for as long as they can to make as as much money. But it also it it it was made for a lot less, so it doesn't have to do that.

SPEAKER_05 7:34:20

It would just be nice if it did to match the previous three, and it and it certainly m deserves to. I guess we're in a slightly different uh landscape. I mean, I remember Dominion like keeping an eye on those figures because I guess I'd done the the the the Jurassic World visual history book and I was you know pretty invested obviously in Dominion being good because I'd read the script but hadn't seen it until the press screening two days before, and then all these horrifying reviews came out, at least in the UK. I can't re I don't know about the states, but yeah, the the UK critics just ripped it apart. And I was like, it's not that bad, you know. And obviously, I I'd obviously spent all that time writing about it, and I you know I had an idea in my head what the film might be like, and I think it reasonably lived up to those expectations. I mean, yeah, there's definitely laws in it, you know. Let's face it, you could cut the sequence out where they go to well, it was shot in Malta, of course. The whole I was very disappointed with the underground dinosaur market, only because Oh really? Well, and I no, I love the idea of it. And having spoken to the guys that did the animatronics, I was like, oh my god, this sequence is gonna be incredible, it's gonna showcase all this amazing, you know, you're gonna see all these kind of cool dinosaurs in cages up close, and there's that big fight that um Chris Pratt's character has and all that sort of stuff, and it's just over so quickly. And I don't know, it's just one of those things, it all just flashes past you really, really quickly. Um, but yeah, and I don't know, a lot of that sequence probably could have been cut and they just got straight to biosyn. I don't know, but yeah, you know, nonetheless, I still kind of enjoyed the movie, so I was kind of invested in it doing well, and then every week just went up and up a little bit, and like you said, they kept it in the cinemas just to hit that billion dollar mark. And I was like, Yeah, you know what? They did care about that film hitting that marker. Um, because it was never gonna go way, it was never gonna touch what Fallen Kingdom or Jurassic World did, but it just got there, so it would be kind of nice if Gareth's film did the same. I mean, it's not good, it's not gonna hit it's not gonna hit a Minecraft movie numbers, for example.

SPEAKER_10 7:36:24

I mean, bizarrely, but I mean they're halfway there already, which is kind of it's not bad for two weeks, right? Uh no.

SPEAKER_08 7:36:32

Yeah, biggest opening of the year, I think, um uh outside of you know holiday. But worldwide, I think. Worldwide, yeah.

SPEAKER_10 7:36:39

Which is I don't I mean, honestly, that's what matters more than the domestic numbers, always about the domestic American dollars around here. But I mean, because yeah, it's doing I know it's doing better um you know outside the US compared to Superman. Like I heard Superman flopped in China because I think Superman's very American-coated superhero, kind of like Captain America in a way. I mean, even his uniform is you know like an American flag almost kind of colors.

SPEAKER_08 7:37:08

Yeah, yeah. Dinosaurs, they're they're truly universal.

SPEAKER_10 7:37:11

Yeah. Made by Universal.

SPEAKER_08 7:37:14

Yeah. I love that line. Uh um, I'd just like to say thank you so much for joining me today. It's been really great fun. James, has your in interview with the with the cinematographer come out in the in the that is a very good question.

SPEAKER_05 7:37:29

It's actually in British Cinematographer magazine. I think it probably has just come out. So, yeah, if anyone wants to go out and buy a copy of British Cinematographer, my editor will be very happy. But John Matheson, I have to say, never interviewed him before. Obviously, he's well known for shooting Gladiator, Gladiator 2, and that guy is a character, I have to say. That he he was.

SPEAKER_08 7:37:50

I mean, he would have to be to work with Ridley Scott.

SPEAKER_05 7:37:53

The Ridley Scott on a regular basis. Yeah, but yeah, he's he was great fun. Really, just I I kind of the first thing I said to him was, Well, you know, like was you we did you just want to kind of join the Jurassic franchise? Was that the kind of real ambition? He's like, no, I just like Gareth's films, and you know, he's just very blunt in in a very English way, and yeah, I enjoyed him very much. So yeah, if you can seek out a copy of that, please do.

SPEAKER_08 7:38:16

And Derek, your your book in in invertiverse, that is out, is out in the world.

SPEAKER_10 7:38:21

It's out there.

SPEAKER_08 7:38:22

Yeah. How's how's how's how's it how's it um you know, fra fractured ankle or leg, like leg aside? Has it been nice getting the getting the book out there?

SPEAKER_10 7:38:32

Yeah, I mean, but yeah, that that was the unfortunate thing with the fractured ankle. I wasn't able to do more like in-person ways to promote it than I had planned. I was able to do a little bit right before it happened, thankfully. And I was able to get into some local stores kind of thing. So that was that was nice. Um yeah, I mean, and I have like the soundtrack out there now, too, even on CD now, which is crazy that I was able to make that happen. Um, there's like a service where you can do it on demand.

SPEAKER_05 7:38:58

You got a ton of merch going, right? I saw that online.

SPEAKER_10 7:39:01

Yeah, they're like I made like a little Zazzle store. I mean, honestly, I just did it because you know it didn't really cost anything up front to do it. So I was like, you know, why and why not to have all this artwork and stuff, even by John Bell, the art director of Jurassic Park. So I'm like, well, I might as well use it and you know put it out there, even if people don't, you know, read the book, I don't think. Yeah, no, I mean, and I've gotten feedback on the book so far, even from Roland right here. I got a nice review about it. So yeah.

SPEAKER_08 7:39:29

I loved it. I really I really did enjoy it. And particularly the the the invertiverse stuff. Um, no, no spoilers, but towards the end, I think that really I think it's a real emotional roller coaster. Um you get very invested in the characters, and it feels like an Amblin like story. It feels of the late 80s or uh early 90s. That's exactly the story and the feeling of it. So yeah, congratulations on it.

SPEAKER_05 7:39:56

Well, I think Amblin are listening to this and they want to read it and uh then option it.

SPEAKER_10 7:40:01

Yeah, it was it was very Amblin coded for sure. Like that was not a not an accident or anything. I definitely, you know, was putting that kind of mindset while I was writing it all these years. That's the thing, and it's it was like 10 years in the making, so it's definitely, you know, I'm kind of I haven't been able to enjoy the aftermath uh of it as much because of the ankle stuff, but you know, it is kind of like a breath to just kind of say, okay, it's done. You know, the world, the world has it now, do with it what they will. I mean, I do I do hope more people kind of react to it, I guess, is all I'm really asking for at this point. Like, you know, what do people think of a, you know, good or bad, you know, just what how they feel about the experience of it. So hopefully I'll get more, you know, reaction soon. And there's you know, multiple ways to buy it. There's ebook, paperback, hardcovers. So, you know, I try to make you know affordable options, if you will. Almost like, you know, a cure for a virus for everyone. I open sourced it. So there you go. I tied it back to rebirth.

SPEAKER_08 7:41:01

And and and and where where where can people buy the buy buy the book?

SPEAKER_10 7:41:05

Uh the easiest way just to go to derekdavismedia.com because I mean, but you can find out like on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, uh basically anywhere you can buy books, you you can you can find it if you just search for it.

SPEAKER_08 7:41:15

Amazing. Well, yeah, I'd just like to say thank you very much for joining me today. And yeah, this is I'm nearly at the end of the road for for rebirth. I'm I'm nearly there. I've I've got one more episode to do, which will be my thoughts on what's coming next, and a couple of other people's thoughts on what's coming next. But yeah, I'd just like to say thank you, both of you, very much for joining me today.

SPEAKER_05 7:41:37

Pleasure. Thank you. Thank you.