Alice Madar - A Conversation About Hummingbirds

In this episode, I chat with Alice Madar, who serves as both the executive director of the International Hummingbird Society and vice president of the Northern Arizona Audubon Society.  We discuss the beauty of hummingbirds and the challenges they face, the upcoming Sedona Hummingbird Festival, her deep commitment to conservation, and her extraordinary photographic adventures.  

We are grateful to the Macaulay Library, part of Cornell Lab of Ornithology at Cornell University, for the use of an audio clip of birdsong in this episode.  

Relevant Links:

https://www.hummingbirdsociety.org/

https://sedonahummingbirdfestival.com/

Thank you for listening. Please visit our website and subscribe to our Instagram feed.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Welcome. This podcast is brought to you by the Northern Arizona Audubon Society, the voice for birds in Northern Arizona since 1972. We envision a future in which birds are thriving in Northern Arizona and throughout the world. Visit our website to learn more about this dynamic organization and the work it does for the love of birds and nature, especially in our part of the world. Welcome to another episode. My name is Matt Anderson, and I'm thrilled today to be talking with Alice Madar about hummingbirds. Alice is the executive director of the International Hummingbird Society and the vice president of the Northern Arizona Audubon Society. In addition, she's an incredibly talented photographer who has traveled extensively to photograph hummingbirds and other wildlife. Thanks, Alice, for the opportunity to get together today. I have so many questions for you. Let's start with the International Hummingbird Society. Can you tell us a little bit about its history and mission?

SPEAKER_00 1:03

Yes, the International Hummingbird Society was founded in 1996 by Dr. Ross Hawkins. And at the time, he and his wife Beth were living in Maryland and enjoying the ruby-throated hummingbirds there. But eventually they wanted to move to Arizona, where we have more hummingbird species than any other state in the United States, and settled here in Sedona, and eventually started up our annual Sedona Hummingbird Festival. But our mission is to educate people about hummingbirds as well as working internationally to protect them. So the festival is a big part of the education piece. We have 14 different talks with experts on a variety of hummingbird subjects. And then we do put those docs online so that our members can see them at their leisure. For the international conservation piece, we've looked at the six critically endangered hummingbird species, and right now we're focusing our efforts on two critically endangered species in Chile. We feel that the birds closer to the equator get a little bit more attention and love. And there are these two critically endangered species in Chile, the Juan Fernandez Firecrown and the Chilean wood star. The Juan Fernandez Firecrown lives on Robinson Crusoe Island, which is about 400 miles off the coast of Chile. And you can only get to it in the austral summer. There are a few scheduled flights. They may or may not go as scheduled, depending on the weather, in very small plains. And the island has a population of a thousand people, and it is a fantastic place to visit. I was there this year, and it was amazing to visit the island, see the unique endemic vegetation. All the native trees are endemic. All the vegetation looks like nowhere else on earth. And these beautiful Juan Fernandez fire crowns are there, and they are the loudest hummingbirds I have ever come across. We found them in these Juan Bueno trees, which are endemic there. We found about ten of them screaming at each other and drinking the nectar from that tree. And they were male and female. The females are actually more beautiful than the males, and we think that could be because there were no predators on the island, so the females could be as showy as the males and not worry about having their nests robbed or attacked.

SPEAKER_01 4:00

Right before we started this podcast, you showed me a photo of the female, and it is just gorgeous. The bird and the photo. Well done. And so you were there for how long?

SPEAKER_00 4:11

We were there for, I want to say, four days photographing those birds. The Robinson Crusoe Island is actually special in other ways. It's one of the very few islands where the pink-footed shearwaters breed. They breed mostly in that archipelago, which is the Juan Fernandez archipelago. There's one small island also off the coast of Chile where they also breed. So we did take a day and go, or an evening actually, and go out for some pelagic birding, and we were just surrounded by pink-footed sheer waters, which was just an amazing experience. And there were also Kermetic petrels and black-browed albatross. It it was fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 5:04

Sounds like the trip of a lifetime. Yes. And so how does membership in the International Hummingbird Society translate to conservation efforts to those birds that are endangered?

SPEAKER_00 5:14

The membership income we receive helps us fund conservation efforts. We are working with American Bird Conservancy on conservation of the Chilean Wood Star, which lives in the Atacama Desert in Chile. And then we're working with Oikonos to it's a Oikonos Ecosystem Knowledge to support their work with the Fire Crown. We're not a big enough organization to set up these efforts on our own. So what we do is support the efforts of other organizations. And through membership in the Hummingbird Society, that enables us to have a bigger voice to support these projects and to encourage the larger organizations to take a look at hummingbirds and the hummingbird needs. What I've found is that a lot of organizations use hummingbirds in their publicity and in their graphics, and we want to make sure that they are also helping hummingbirds.

SPEAKER_01 6:24

I see. One of the things that I've noticed here in Northern Arizona is just this wonderful camaraderie and sharing of goals, objectives, resources from all the organizations here. Northern Arizona Audubon Society, Butterfly Enthusiasts of Northern Arizona, International Hummingbird Society. How does that take place? How do you all coordinate those efforts?

SPEAKER_00 6:47

Well, this is rural Northern Arizona, so it's a relatively small population, and we all know each other and go birding together and go on butterfly walks together, and we all believe strongly in the mission of these three organizations. And we want to do even more coordinated efforts, and then we support each other in whatever efforts we're undertaking. Right now we at the International Hummingbird Society are working to get the Anna's hummingbird recognized as the official city bird for Sedona. And being a butterfly enthusiast of Northern Arizona and Northern Arizona Audubon are aware of this, and in future board meetings, we'll probably get their support behind that. The individuals in those organizations that I've talked with fully support that effort.

SPEAKER_01 7:52

How would you characterize the current health of hummingbird populations? And what are your recommendations for actions that we can take to support them?

SPEAKER_00 8:01

So there's about 365 hummingbird species in the world, and about 68% of them are in decline. And that's mostly through loss of habitat, and the loss of habitat is due to destruction by humans and also climate change. And the Rufus hummingbird, which is here in North America and that people love so much, they are in steep decline. Researchers haven't pinpointed an exact cause. It's very hard to research hummingbirds. But because they're migratory, there's probably a loss of habitat along their route. It's hard for them to sustain themselves. They migrate about 44,000 miles each direction from Alaska all the way to southern Mexico and even south of that sometimes. So what we are encouraging people to do, and we've started this certified hummingbird haven program, we're encouraging people to plant hummingbird gardens in their yards, not use pesticides. There's not a need for ornamental plants that aren't native because the native plants that hummingbirds love have beautiful flowers.

SPEAKER_01 9:25

Penstamons and etc.

SPEAKER_00 9:27

Yeah, pentamens, agasace, salvia. And actually for the salvia, they are very important pollinators. The salvia depend on the hummingbirds for pollination. So they're important to the environment and they help beautify the environment just by the plants that they support and by their presence itself.

SPEAKER_01 9:50

Good point. I noticed on the wonderful website that International Hummingbird Society has that there's a lot of information about hummingbird-friendly gardens.

SPEAKER_00 10:00

Yes, and we will be expanding our efforts in that area. We think that's really important work.

SPEAKER_01 10:07

What species of hummingbirds are we likely to see here in northern Arizona?

SPEAKER_00 10:12

The most prominent, of course, is the Annas, because they are here year-round. They will have nests even in the snow. They're very sturdy little hummingbirds. And they are one of the few species that is actually expanding territory. They were originally a species mostly in Baja Mexico and into a little Southern California. And then as people started planting gardens, humans started planting gardens, and especially eucalyptus trees, which bloom in winter, they just started extending their range. And now it's all the way up into British Columbia. They're in British Columbia even in the winter. And now they're being found in the summer in Alaska, and even a few in the winter in Alaska. They are here year-round, and we also have black chin, they are very prominent in the summer, and rufus come through, and people love seeing those little feisty rufus. They are feisty indeed. They're so feisty. Because they're they got to get that food for their long roots, so they don't want anybody messing with them. Those are the most prominent, and then less common are the broad billed, which shimmer all over their body, and they have a red bill, so that's one easy way to identify them. You're more likely to find them close to water, but during migration, they can pop up in anybody's yard. The same with Costus hummingbirds, which are primarily a desert hummingbird, so you're more likely to see them down in Phoenix, but we see them here. And then the Calliope, which is more of a mountain bird, and that's the smallest bird in the United States. They pass through here, and you might see them, and there's two more: the broad tailed, which is probably after the first three most common I mentioned, the broadtails, you will see here. They're a higher elevation hummingbird. Well, you'll see them in the canyon, definitely up in Flagstaff and in Sedona. And when they fly, there is a very distinctive sound. It sounds kind of like a small fireworks taking off. It's this whistling sound. So you always know when there's a broadtail nearby because you hear that whistling sound as they're flying. Yeah. And then the final bird is the Rivelies hummingbird, which was called the Magnificent, and it's called the second largest hummingbird in the United States. It's arguable there's the blue-throated mountain gem, and sometimes they measure the same. I think some rivelys maybe are larger than some of the blue-throated mountain gems, and they are a very stunning hummingbird. They like canyons with water in them. They nest over the water in canyons, but they are breeding in Oak Creek Canyon, so it's a small population.

SPEAKER_01 13:14

Interesting, did not know that.

SPEAKER_00 13:16

Yeah. Well, we and the hummingbird research group, which we work with on our they're the banders during the festival, were actually doing a joint project to study this and ban the rivolies that are in the canyon. And when they've captured them, they have found the females grabid, ready to lay eggs. So that was kind of a wonderful discovery. And most researchers did not realize that they were breeding here in the canyon. And it's really fun to see one because they they have the beautiful violet crown and then their gorgette seems to shift from teal to electric green. And because they're mostly in the shade, they may just look like a large black hummingbird, and they do have a black breast, but then when they pop into the sunshine, their colors are just amazing.

SPEAKER_01 14:09

Completely understandable why we have a whole festival built around these beautiful birds.

SPEAKER_00 14:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:13

Yeah. And so this is the 11th uh annual festival, and how many days? And it has workshops to start?

SPEAKER_00 14:21

Mm-hmm. It's technically three days, but the day before the festival, we have a painting workshop this year, and that is led by Gamini Ratnavera, who has been our key painter for all the festivals. He does beautiful hummingbird paintings. He has actually last year released a book with paintings of all 365 hummingbirds, and people love to see his work at the festival. And this is the first and possibly only time he will be doing a workshop at the festival.

SPEAKER_01 14:59

That's exciting.

SPEAKER_00 15:00

Yeah, and I've seen photos of because he does workshops in at his home in Southern California, so he has taught how to paint hummingbirds to other people, and they look really good. So you could get a really beautiful picture that you paint during the festival. And then Stephen Vaughn is leading the hummingbird photography workshops, and he has taught many hummingbird photography workshops, mostly in the Tucson area. And he's an ornithologist as well. So he really understands hummingbird behavior and hummingbird anatomy and how to get wonderful shots of hummingbirds. And then he's also had a lot of experience working with beginning and advanced photographers to help them develop their hummingbird photography skills.

SPEAKER_01 15:50

This sounds like an amazing couple days. So people who want to learn more about the festival can either go to the International Hummingbird Society's website or the festival's website itself.

SPEAKER_00 16:01

Correct. Yes, Sedona Hummingbird Festival.com or our International Hummingbird Society website is hummingbirdsociety.org.

SPEAKER_01 16:13

Both of those sites are filled with useful information from identification to gardening to conservation. What are some of the most common questions you get from visitors to the sites?

SPEAKER_00 16:23

The most common question I get is about feeders, about what mixture should I use in the feeders? How do we clean the feeders? And a lot of people don't realize, especially during the summer, you should be changing your feeders every couple of days or even every day. And the hummingbirds do appreciate fresh nectar. So if you want more hummingbirds in your yard, keep that nectar fresh.

SPEAKER_01 16:49

Do some preventive maintenance. Yeah. That's great.

SPEAKER_00 16:52

And an easy way to keep your feeders clean is just every time you change out the nectar, keep a spray bottle handy full of vinegar. You just spray vinegar on the feeder after you empty it out, let it sit for 30 seconds, scrub it out, and that keeps the mold from developing. And that mold, if black mold develops on the feeder, that can be deadly for the hummingbirds. So you really don't want that. You must keep your feeders clean.

SPEAKER_01 17:19

That's great advice. And more information about that on your website, too. Yes. Fantastic. Yes. Yeah, and so how many species of hummingbirds do we have internationally, and how many are we fortunate enough to be able to see here in Arizona?

SPEAKER_00 17:32

There's four sort of taxonomic organizations. So there's slight differences in the count, but I like to say 365. No matter how you slice it, there's definitely more than 360. So it's, I believe, the third largest family of birds at this time. And they're only in the Americas. They're all across South America. North America doesn't have as many because we're further from the equator. But there, I think technically there have been 17 species seen in North America. In Arizona you can see 14 species, and I think there's a couple that have shown up here once or twice. So we have eight in this area, in the Verde Valley area, and then the rest you'll find in southeastern Arizona.

SPEAKER_01 18:30

So, Alice, what can we do as citizens to improve the health of hummingbird populations, not only here in northern Arizona, but throughout the world? Some answers might be to support organizations such as the International Hummingbird Society to make sure our nectar is fresh and our feeders devoid of mold, having hummingbird-friendly gardens. What would you add to that list?

SPEAKER_00 18:59

Well, I would say politically working with your representatives to minimi to get pesticides, to minimize the use of pesticides, and especially neonicotoids, those keep pesticides in the plants, and that can be harmful to insects, which hummingbirds eat insects, they eat small insects, and because hummingbirds drink the nectar, it's hum it's directly impacting them as well. So pesticide minimizing the use of pesticides is very important. And supporting insect populations is important for hummingbird health and bird health overall and the health of the environment. So yeah, I think beyond just the the gardens supporting your gardens and supporting habitat expansion, protecting habitat, national parks, state parks, protected land, that's all very important in supporting hummingbirds.

SPEAKER_01 20:08

And these hummingbirds are remarkable both in their beauty and their other characteristics. You mentioned the rufus, for example, has migratory distances of about 4,000 miles. Each way.

SPEAKER_00 20:20

Yeah, one way.

SPEAKER_01 20:21

It's just just so remarkable. What are some other fascinating facts that you have about uh hummingbirds that we're likely to see or we for your about?

SPEAKER_00 20:29

Well, people say that the peregrine falcon is the fastest bird in the world, but if you measure body lengths per second, the anus hummingbird is the fastest bird in the world.

SPEAKER_01 20:41

All right.

SPEAKER_00 20:42

And they can dive during their courtship behavior, dive at speeds of 60 miles an hour, and when they pull up, they pull up with a G force of 10 Gs, which is about what a fighter pilot would experience. It's just right when they pull up, so it's a split second, because if it was longer than that, it would kill them. So they do that deep dive and pull up, and then when they pull up, it makes a popping sound in their tail feathers. And so we think that the the louder the pop shows the stronger the hummingbird. He was steep and pulling up quickly. That makes a loud pop. And so the female says, Oh, that loud pop means he's strong, and so I want to I want to breed with him. So that's a really interesting thing about the antis. And just their general structure is different than any other hummingbird. That is what enables them to hover. They get lift both what we would call the upstroke and downstroke, although they're more sort of horizontal. They beat their wings in a figure eight or infinity pattern, and they have a rotating shoulder, and they're the sort of the arm part. Of their skeleton is very short. So most of their wing is what we would call the hand part of the bird. And then it's very flat. It's not flexible like other birds. So their wing structure is entirely different. And that enables them to hover, fly backwards, fly upside down, do all their unique aerobatics. And they have to eat every 15 minutes because their metabolism is so fast. So that's why they have the nectar, the sugar. People are worried that some people think, oh, we shouldn't be providing this sugar water to them, but they are not going to get diabetes. They are physiologically built for this sugar. And the sugar concentration in the feeders mimics the concentration of sugar in the nectar that they drink from flowers.

SPEAKER_01 22:54

And that's a four-to-one mixture, typically.

SPEAKER_00 22:56

Four to one mixture. Four to one in the summer. In some areas in the winter, you can go to three to one just for, first of all, extra energy, but also it's it doesn't freeze as quickly as the four to one mixture. But in the summer, you definitely want to go to four to one because then it doesn't ferment as quickly as a three to one mixture.

SPEAKER_01 23:20

Interesting. So one of the other questions I have for you regarding this nectar is that I think some people tend to want to put their feeders in earlier than they might otherwise because they don't want to interfere with the migratory patterns of the birds. But it doesn't really make a difference to them, does it?

SPEAKER_00 23:36

No. The drive to migrate is really strong and ingrained in them. And leaving your feeders out just supports them on their journey. If they are late in migration, they may have fewer flowers. So it's actually more important than ever to leave your feeders out for those stragglers so they can make the migration.

SPEAKER_01 24:02

Thank you. Now some birds are experiencing difficulties with fluctuations in resource availability because of climate change. Are hummingbirds subject to the same kinds of stressors?

SPEAKER_00 24:14

Oh, absolutely. Because climate change affects the flowers along their route. So we're seeing a lot of shifts. As I mentioned, the Annas are expanding their range north, which I don't know if it's partly because it's warming in the north. As I said, I don't know if that makes a difference because they do hang around even in the snow. But the Rufus hummingbirds, which have that very long migration, they're finding that some of them are choosing to stay in Southern California. And that may be because it's just too hard to complete that migratory route. And the migratory species of hummingbirds are the ones that are experiencing the decline.

SPEAKER_01 25:01

Let's take a short break for a message from the Northern Arizona Audubon Society. We'll be back in a moment. We're back with Alice Madar and discussing the beauty of hummingbirds and the challenges they face. What are some effects that humans seem to be having on hummingbird populations?

SPEAKER_00 26:23

We've talked about some of the ways that humans are affecting hummingbirds, climate change, habitat loss, also cats. Your pet cats, if you allow them outside, they they kill birds and they kill hummingbirds. The two single greatest factors affecting all bird populations in the US are window strikes hitting windows and cats, feral cats and pet cats. Each of those things probably kills a billion birds in the US every year. So it's important to keep your cats inside. And if you can put decals on your windows, let your windows get dirty if you can stand that. There's a brand called Feather Friendly that makes strips that you can put on your windows, but definitely check into ways to make your windows obvious to birds so that they don't think it's something that they can fly through. Now I'm deeply involved with hummingbirds, so I'm not as aware of things going on with feeding other bird species. But with the hummingbird feeders, they're finding that the anise hummingbirds, which are so acclimated to humans, the bill shape of the anise is starting to change, and they think it's because of feeder use. One of our speakers at the festival, Alejandro Rico Guevara, was the senior author of a study where they looked into this. So I'm looking forward to hearing more about that at the festival. He will be speaking on Friday.

SPEAKER_01 28:18

Excellent. Boy, that just sounds like it's going to be packed with information. You've got a photo contest going on as well.

SPEAKER_00 28:25

Yes, we'll have a photo contest, so we'll have beautiful hummingbird prints on display. We also have a kids' day on Saturday where we'll have arts and crafts related to hummingbirds, and we have several local conservations there. We'll have the Heritage Park Zoo with live animals and Sonoran reptiles with live animals. We'll have our local dance company do a little hummingbird dance. So Kids Day is this will be our second Kids' Day at the festival, and last year it was very successful, and this year we're expanding on that. What else do we have? We have garden tours, which people love, and we have six gardens and we have shuttles to take people to the gardens, and people can spend as much time as they want there. The garden tours start at 6 30 and go till 11:30. And then we also have hummingbird banding where people can watch master banders, capture hummingbird, put an identification band on it. The other thing they do is assess that particular hummingbird's health and age. And so the information they collect by examining the hummingbird contributes to our overall knowledge of hummingbirds. And then the band, if that hummingbird is recaptured, tells us something about the movement of hummingbirds.

SPEAKER_01 29:55

So with respect to researching migration patterns of hummingbirds, we see with other species the use of technologies such as MODIS or geolocators. What kinds of techniques can be used with hummingbirds?

SPEAKER_00 30:10

Well, with hummingbirds, it's more difficult to use the radio tracking technologies because they are so tiny. There was one experiment with Rufus hummingbirds with radio packs, but it seems that that wasn't replicated. There was another bit of research that was done with giant hummingbirds. They're almost as big as cardinals, so they were able to put radio packs on some, I think it was five or six, in Chile, and they were surprised to find that they actually migrated to the Peruvian Andes. And it was an elevation shift of 14,000 feet and a round trip route of 5,200 feet. And through that, they discovered that the southern giant hummingbirds are actually a different species than the northern giant hummingbirds. They did a DNA analysis as well and found that they truly are separate species. So they're working on getting them recognized that way. So usually the way that we can find out more information about migration patterns is just observation. EBird is great for having people document seeing the hummingbirds. And then of course, banding. Banding is really important. There is an example of a hummingbird that was banded in Alaska and then captured in Florida, and that band was recorded that the bird was captured there, and then it was recaptured in Alaska. And then often when hummingbirds are banded as they return to that area again in a following year. So that also helps with determining longevity. There was a broadtail hummingbird that was banded, and they knew that he was about a year old or she, and then was captured again 10 or 11 years later. So they were able to document that broadtails are capable of living 12 years. There's so much that has been discovered, and there is so much that is undiscovered when we look at population, what people think the population is of a particular species of hummingbird, most of them they don't know. And they don't know how threatened many of the species are.

SPEAKER_01 32:51

Let's take a short break for the name that song section of the podcast. And then when we come back, I really want to talk to you about bird photography some more. So let's take a moment for the relatively new segment in this podcast, name that song. Bird song, of course. Your task is to identify the species after listening to a short recording. We'll reveal the answer at the end of the episode. Ready? Here it is. Alice, I want to come back to photography. When I first met you, it was at the meeting hosted by the Northern Arizona Audubon Society and FLAC staff. And you gave a stunning presentation on your travels to Ecuador and had some amazing photos in that presentation. Tell us a little bit about how long you've been doing that and where your favorite places are to photograph. And I understand from that presentation, it's not just birds that you like photographing, it's spectacled bears and lizards as well. So tell us a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_00 34:24

Yes, I've enjoyed photography since high school, when you know, in the old film days. But when I retired in 2020, I was able to really devote myself to photography. And I love wildlife. And birds are wildlife that is more accessible than a lot of other wildlife. So I started focusing on birds. And then with the hummingbird festival here in Sedona, I discovered how amazing hummingbirds are, the tremendous variety and the tremendous beauty of all the different species. And I saw a talk on the hummingbirds of Ecuador, and so I decided to take a trip there to photograph some of those hummingbirds, and then from there I just couldn't stop. I go to South America, I try to get there at least once a year and photograph some of the hummingbirds there. They're all so different. Next year I'll probably go a little closer to home to Costa Rica to photograph one of my bucket list hummingbirds, the snowcap hummingbird.

SPEAKER_01 35:44

What advice would you have for someone who aspires to go to Central America to photograph hummingbirds or other wildlife?

SPEAKER_00 35:52

Well, the single biggest piece of advice is to have a guide. With a guide, you're not wasting time trying to find hummingbirds. There are a lot of hummingbird lodges in, or bird lodges, and some specifically hummingbird lodges in South America. And so you can stay at those lodges and see a wide variety of species right there. But it's nice to have a guide to take you. There's a lot of small private reserves. There's more a growing ecotourism, and so people, South American residents, are finding that instead of cutting down trees and destroying habitat, they're setting up small ecoreserves and inviting tourists to come and photograph the wildlife in their yard. So it's a great, it's a great thing to do. By going and photographing hummingbirds, you are also supporting conservation of hummingbirds.

SPEAKER_01 36:56

So it's obvious you love nature and hummingbirds and are an advocate for both. What do you find most rewarding or enjoyable about birding in Northern Arizona and in your role as Executive Director of the International Hummingbird Society, oh, and your role as the vice president of the Northern Arizona Audubon Society?

SPEAKER_00 37:17

Well, I really like the community, the community of birders and the community of hummingbird enthusiasts. There's some overlap in those two communities, but there are people who just love the hummingbirds in their yards and are not interested in going out and birding beyond their yards. And so it's fun to talk to people who take so much joy in watching and supporting the hummingbirds in their yards and helping expand their knowledge of hummingbirds and how to take care of them. I'm always surprised to find out how many people come up to me and don't know what mixture of nectar to use or don't realize that they shouldn't be putting red dye in their feeders or don't know that they should be changing their feeders frequently. And then in terms of birding, I love going out with other people. I I know a lot of people like to bird on their own, but I like to go out with other people. It's more eyes-looking, but it's just fun to share the excitement of seeing a new or unusual bird or even a common bird doing something that they don't that you don't normally see. So it's it's fun. And birding is just a nature walk with a purpose. So it's fun to get out in nature and look for birds. And then you might see cool lizards or butterflies or other insects.

SPEAKER_01 38:56

It's time to reveal the species responsible for the lovely bird song we heard earlier in this episode. It's the housefinch, a beautiful and gregarious species frequently seen and heard in northern Arizona. Again, we're grateful to Paul Marvin and the Macaulay Library, part of the Cornell Lab of Ornithology at Cornell University, for the use of this clip. Well, Alice, thank you so much for your time today. It was just a delight chatting with you and great learning more about hummingbirds and the important work you are doing to protect them, both here in Northern Arizona and internationally.

SPEAKER_00 39:33

Well, it was my pleasure. I love talking about hummingbirds, so thank you for speaking with me.

SPEAKER_01 39:40

Thanks again. We hope you've enjoyed this podcast. Please visit our website at Northern ArizonaAudubon.org and consider joining the Northern Arizona Audubon Society or your local bird group to support the work they do to help birds. And above all, we hope you will continue appreciating and protecting birds and the places they need.