Josh Steinbach | Head Volleyball Coach, Villanova University | Coaches Are Human Beings Too

Josh Steinbach is the head volleyball coach at Villanova University, where he is entering his 20th season and has become the winningest coach in program history with more than 300 career victories.

Before arriving at Villanova in 2007, Josh's coaching journey included stops at San Diego Mesa College, Penn State, University of Cincinnati, and Wright State. During his time at Villanova, Josh has earned BIG EAST Coach of the Year and AVCA East Region Coach of the Year honors while building a program that has consistently competed at a high level on the court and in the classroom.

In this conversation, Josh reflects on his shift as a leader from controlling to trusting, why relationships ultimately matter more than X's and O's, the importance of empowering and mentoring other coaches, and why he wants his players to leave Villanova saying, “I wish I could do that again.”

Josh also opens up about navigating adversity away from volleyball, modeling vulnerability as a leader, rediscovering the joy in coaching, and his recent “learning renaissance” that has shifted him from entering the gym with all the answers to showing up with better questions.

Here's some notable highlights from our conversation:
[7:40] — Why Experience Made Him Less Controlling as a Coach

[11:03] — The Assistant Coach Who Taught Him to Let Go

[15:16] — Developing Future Head Coaches

[21:18] — Finding Your Own Coaching Voice

[26:40] — The North Star for Villanova Volleyball

[31:49] — Coaching From Joy Instead of Relief

[37:40] — Being Vulnerable With Your Players

[46:34] — Why Leadership Has to Be Adaptive

[48:41] — Inside His "Learning Renaissance"

[55:06] — Why Mentoring Others Makes You Better

[58:41] — What Josh Is Most Proud Of

Learn More About Zach:

• Zach's Email -- Zbrandon1022@gmail.com
• Reserve a seat at the Game Changer's Advantage Event on Sept. 4th here.
• Explore 1:1 coaching with Zach -- Schedule a free call here.
• Download my free Win More, Live Better Leadership Playbook here.
• You can watch the video recordings of the podcast on YouTube here.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

I do think it's important that if you're asking people to be vulnerable as they go through as athletes and um with their teams and with with each other and that that we can model those behaviors. And I you know, so um again that's that's a line I'm I'm willing to blur once in a while and be like, hey, this is what's going on with me right now. I'm just letting you know. And um, you know, and through some of it I I wasn't always great, you know, and um I think that's you know, that's that's a learning concept. And you know, some of that was you know, we'd like, you know, you stack things going through COVID and you're dealing with stuff at home and you've got all these things, and and it's hard, it's it's a lot harder all of a sudden to relate to your team. And um, but I think for me, I've I've always felt comfortable just being like, hey, this is who I am, this is what I'm going through, this is what I'm dealing with. And I I I you know I'm not asking for your sympathy or your whatever else. I'm just asking you to understand that I'm a human person too, and I'm not gonna get everything right along the way.

SPEAKER_00 0:58

Welcome back to the Win More Live Better Podcast. Now, before I get into the heart of today's episode and introduce our guest, I wanted to quickly reiterate my enthusiasm for something that I announced last week. So on Friday, September 4th, I'm gonna be hosting my first in-person full-day leadership workshop here in Scottsdale, Arizona called the Game Changers Advantage. So, over the course of that day, I'm gonna take a lot of the tools, principles, and frameworks that I've used over the years with professional athletes, elite coaches, and help translate them for leaders and performers from any arena. So, whether you're a coach or sport executive, a corporate leader, an entrepreneur, a sales professional, or just simply somebody who's looking to find another edge in how you perform, lead, and live, I think you'll get a tremendous amount out of the experience. And because you're a loyal listener of this show, I also wanted to share something special. So if you're interested in attending or you know somebody who might be, send me an email with the link in the show notes expressing just say, hey, I'm interested in in attending the Game Changers uh Advantage event, and I'll personally send you a promo code for 25% off the event. Now, just so you know, I'm intentionally keeping this uh first kind of group very small. I'm gonna cap it at about the first 15 people that sign up, uh, because I want there to be plenty of space for conversation, connection, uh, some coaching, uh, and really just being able to dive into how these ideas apply to your specific world. So if you're local to the Phoenix Scottsdale area, or maybe you just happen to want to make the trip, uh, you can find more information about the game changers advantage in the show notes, along with a way to get in touch with me directly. And again, I just want to say how excited I am to be able to host this in person. And more than anything, I just want to uh express gratitude to you all uh for continuing to listen and support the work that we're doing here, not only with the podcast, but also in general. So, with that being said, let's get into the real reason that we're here today, because I'm excited to bring you my conversation with Josh Steinbach. He's the head volleyball coach at Villanova University. Josh is someone whose name has come up repeatedly in conversations that I've had with other coaches in the volleyball world, not only because of the coach that he is, but because of the person he is and the impact he's had on others throughout the profession. So Josh is entering his 20th season leading the Villanova volleyball program, where he's become the winningest head coach in program history with more than 300 career victories. During his tenure, he's been named the Big East Coach of the Year, he's earned ABCA East Region Coach of the Year honors, he's led Villanova to the NCAA tournament, and he's built a program that's consistently competed at a high level, not only on the court, but also in the classroom. Now, before his journey began at Villanova, Josh played collegially at San Diego Mesa College and George Mason before eventually earning his degree from Penn State. His early coaching experiences included time at San Diego Mesa, Penn State, where he also had the opportunity to work around legendary Hall of Fame coach Russ Rose. He's also been with the University of Cincinnati and Wright State before eventually getting his first opportunity to lead his own Division I program at Villanova in 2007. So in this conversation, just to give you a quick little preview of what's to come, we discuss how the longer he's coached, the more he's realized that how much he maybe doesn't know. We talk about a little bit about why increases in confidence has actually allowed him to surrender and relinquish some of his control as a leader, and what he's learned about empowering assistant coaches and creating opportunities for other people to lead. We dive into the North Star that he uses to think about the experience he's creating for his players, why he wants athletes to leave Villanova saying, I wish I could do that again, and the difference between coaching from a place of joy versus reaching a point where winning simply feels like relief. And then finally, toward the end of the conversation, we get into what Josh calls his own learning renaissance, how he shifted from entering the gym believing his responsibility was to provide answers to increasingly showing up with questions and why mentoring the next generation of coaches has become such a meaningful part of his own continued development. So there's a lot in this one about coaching, but I think there's even more about learning, leadership, and connection. So uh I think you'll really enjoy this episode. Uh, I know I did, and so with that, I'm excited to bring you my guest conversation today with Villanova head volleyball coach Josh Steinbach. Welcome back to the Win More Live Better podcast. And today we're gonna stick around uh within the realm of volleyball, and I'm really excited to bring you uh Josh Steinbach uh as our guest today. He is the head volleyball coach at the University of Villanova. Um, and so I'm really just uh his name has been brought up through a couple of different people that I've had on the show in different circles. I promise, all good things. Okay. Uh we'll save some of the other things. I'm already worried in uh we'll save some of the things that I'm like, I think this should have been kept private offline, you know. But um in the meantime, uh more than anything, just uh so many in the profession and some of your your peers speak so highly of you, not only um as a coach, but also as a human being and as a person and and what you've helped build there at Villanova, but also some of the other stops you've had along the way. So more than anything, I was just really, really excited to create space for you, Josh, to to share with the audience today some of your your coaching journey and uh kind of peel back the curtain a bit on on who you are as a coach. So thank you.

SPEAKER_01 6:38

Yeah, Zach, thanks for having me on. Pleasure to be here. And uh yeah, so it's uh you know, I I like doing this stuff and get getting out and talking a little bit. Um you've had somebody said nice things about me, and I must have paid them well at some point in time, and uh um I'll have to go back and give some credit later on.

SPEAKER_00 6:54

But thank you very much. Yeah, I love it, I love it. Um, you know, when you you uh looking at your your coaching background, now it expands, you know, just over a couple of decades in terms of, you know, and with a lot of experiences, a lot of things that I can imagine you've learned. And and I'd also imagine, too, that uh, you know, that early version of you as a coach probably has some overlap, some similarity to who you are now, but I'd also imagine there there has also been an evolution and a lot of growth within that. I want to kind of start there. When you think about kind of the early version of you as a coach versus now, what are some of the things that have maybe changed and or evolved the most in in your coaching and in your leadership?

SPEAKER_01 7:40

Um yeah, I think um I think that's a great question. I think it's one of the interesting things that happens to us as people as we get older, and whether it's um in your profession or just in your life, is you you start to learn how much you don't know um um the longer you you do it. And um and you know, there's that phrase about youth being wasted on the young, and it it's you know having the the ability to look back and and and learn from experience and go, I thought I was so sure of this one thing was the the absolute way to do things, and I was so positive of that. And then realizing that you know that's not you know, if things are more malleable than that. And and um so I think you know, for sure, when I um when I took this job at Villanova, certainly in my time coaching before I arrived here, um, I was pretty convinced that there was um a much more um black and white right and wrong way to to do things and that I knew what the right way was. And everybody else uh was I don't know what they're doing, it's not yeah. Um and I think over time, um you know, I think what what I've learned is is that how we deal with people, how we deal with um uh you know, our players, our staff, and and and is is the stuff that we need to make sure we have right, and then the volleyball stuff, uh the X's and the O's, the the training techniques, um they're gonna, you know, um they're important, but they they uh those are the things that we can we can experiment with and play around with and figure out what works for different groups and different players and different people. Whereas the relationship the relational part is the stuff that that matters the most and we've gotta make sure we have that part right. So I think whereas back then I would have just said, well let's just hey, we're just gonna take care of the volley and everything else is and so it's just you know, those things shift over time. And uh certainly I was very, very sure of myself um when I took this job here in 2007. I I I wouldn't let anybody else do anything in the gym. You know, I'm gonna I was totally in control of every every drill, every whatever the start times. I mapped it all out. I had I wanted to plan everything and um I think the more confident I have in what I'm doing coaching, the less I I have been you know demanding of that kind of control and uh been very confident in just having assistants develop and learn how to do those things and just working with them. And so there's all kinds so many things have changed. It's you know, it's exact that's a it's a really fun question because I could talk for a long time on all the things that I did different uh back then that I wish I knew more of now, but I think it's um um I think I know that I don't know as much, which is the biggest thing.

SPEAKER_00 10:19

I want to press on the the comment you made about the control thing, because that's certainly come up, I think, in in other conversations that I've had in on the show. And I think, you know, those that you know in the in the mental game kind of sports psychology realm and coaching realm, you know, one of the very popular adages is that it's about controlling what you can control, but there's oftentimes a secondary part to that that gets forgotten, which is yes, it's control what you can control, but it's also can you let go of or surrender what you can't control? So I'm I'm I'm I'm interested for you, what was a tipping point or what did it take for you to kind of slowly start to maybe relinquish some of that control as a coach?

SPEAKER_01 11:04

Uh well, I would like to say it was a slow journey, but um I hired a young assistant coach here uh by the name of Amy Paulie. Um who is uh if you've never met Amy, Amy's now coaching in the pro league with the Orlando Balkeries and won a championship last year and done it's just uh she's a force of nature in the way she uh comes in as um a big personality and um a presence and and I I just gained confidence in her very quickly and I started to let her take care of some things and and you know, all of a sudden when you watch somebody else do something and they have success with it, it it you you go, oh okay, this is okay. And um so I don't think that was not a a slow learning situation for me. It was uh all of a sudden I had this person here who came in and started just taking you know hands-on doing stuff and it's like no Josh, I got this, no, I've got this, and um, and she was really good at it. And what I think I realized is that and and that was in the gym, right? And so what I think I realized is the control that I'd given up in some things, like recruiting, like I mean I've had I've had you know, I've I've done I've been really lucky in how I've been able to hire, and I had people um early in my career that were very, very good at you know, and some things. Uh, you know, um Julie Darty, who's now the head coach of Mississippi State, um uh Kate Wolfenden before her, who's now in, you know, she's in um not in college coaching any longer, but she was those guys, th those three assistants specifically were really, really good at some relationship stuff, some recruiting stuff, some training things. And when you can allow yourself to let those those good people do their jobs and be good at their things, um it it's it makes, you know, you you start to under you start to learn that whether it's on on purpose or by accident. And so I think um Amy came in and all of a sudden she was just making, you know, she was she was making things happen and doing things and um you know things that I was like, I didn't ask for that or I didn't we I didn't want this and like yeah, but you need it and here's what we're doing. And and so um, you know, that really kind of taught me quickly, um, you know, in a in a way that I didn't expect that hey, it's okay to let let these people do some things, and it's okay to let them fail at some things too. And you know, hey, you're gonna go ahead and yeah, you want to try this, go go do this. And you know, the the unfortunate thing is I wish I would have learned that a lot a long time ago, because when I was a you know, young volunteer assistant with, you know, at Penn State, and Russ would, you know, I'd say, Hey, we should do this, and he'd be like, Yeah, go ahead. And he would, you know, he was so comfortable with it. He would let, you know, he gave me opportunities to do some things that I never thought somebody like that would give me that kind of you know opportunity. And I you know, um and I d I should have learned that lesson from him then. Instead I had to like experience it myself, like so many other lessons in life, right? They gotta you gotta you gotta do it before you uh before you learn the lesson.

SPEAKER_00 14:08

Um it's like it it it's I can't tell you how many times there's probably been a moment where I've come to the realization of something and finally feel like, okay, I got it. And someone's been like, Zach, I've been telling you this for months or years or whatever. I'm just maybe a good bad listener, slow learner, or what, but to some of that is what you're describing too, is it gets to a point where you you do kind of have to also experience it. The other thing that I think you're you're in essence, in some ways describing was actually something that came up in my conversation with JJ Van Neal, who I know you're obviously very close with. And one of the things that he touched on that I thought was great was, you know, given his background getting into coaching, his lens at which he sees leading and management and so forth is is a little unique compared to some. And one of the things he talked about was how important hiring is, how important it is to get the right people on the bus and in in the right seats. And I think that's kind of one of the things I hear and you describe, you know, not only with Amy, but maybe with some others, of just part of what can help there is who you bring in and surround yourself with.

SPEAKER_01 15:16

Well, and and I think, you know, you you're you're very right. And I know I um I listened to that interview, so I I know that one. Um and and and JJ, I was, you know, in on some of those conversations with some of his hires. And I think the difference, you know, there's differences in everybody's situation. And, you know, um early on in my career here, you know, our salary pool was so small, it was laughable. And so I um I was hiring some people with very little experience or none. And so I thought I just had to take control over the things. But the truth was I was getting people who were willing to take those salaries. That meant that they were very passionate about what they were doing and were really driven. And um, and what it turns out is that you know, different motivating factors can put people in different positions, and so um, you know, when you are willing to do something for very little money and that's not what you're you know in it for, and get get in and stay, and um, you know, I Amy was here for six years and was never a full-time assistant here, and um but was amazing and did such a good job, and I think um, you know, I it was easy for me to give somebody like that control and and let let it go. And so I you're right, I I I think I've been really fortunate in hiring. Um I think one of the things that we've done well is we've given up control to some of those young assistants who are very hungry and are out doing it, and I've just been able to help guide them a little bit. And so it makes it it makes their learning curve um, you know, um steeper. And they they you know they learn those things faster and they're they're getting into it quicker because we're saying, hey, listen, you're you know, I I've got a guy now, Joe, and he runs the I mean he comes in, like I don't run the gym, he runs the gym, I I tell them the things I want to have done and they get done. And if they're not then we have other side conversations. We're like, hey, I I said I wanted to, you know, we we just have a regular conversation about it and he's he's outstanding. And I think you know he's gonna he's gonna be a really good head coach when he gets the opportunity. And um you know, and you know, that's what happens is we get assistance and then they're we're giving them opportunities and trying to teach them along the way and help them get better at the thing they're doing. So I think it's you're right, it's twofold. It's hey, can we hire good people to so it's start they're the right people to hang out with and um and be able to have conversations with and learn with? Um and then and and challenge me too. Like, you know, I I I'm not trying to hire, you know, people to just say, Yes, you're right, coach, and let's go. And but uh so and then you you want people that you can teach and that are gonna be willing to learn and and gonna be you know want their ideas their ideas challenged a little bit. And um you know, this this whole thing we do, this crazy this crazy profession is um if it's not if you're not learning in it, then you're missing because it'll pass you by quickly.

SPEAKER_00 17:59

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it's um you know, I had somebody tell me once, they were like, you know, if you really think back to like how many people learn how to become a leader, and this was in a much broader sense, not just in sport, they were like, you generally learn how to lead by having opportunities to lead. Like you have to actually do it. Like you can't just read a bunch of leadership books and think that that will make you a better leader. Obviously, there's a lot more to it. So I think on one hand, I hear you describe how powerful and valuable that is for them to like have those opportunities extended to them to take on more responsibility and for you to, in essence, demonstrate how much you believe in them. But then also with that, too, it's like you mentioned, you know, given maybe some of the constraints, hey, maybe there's certain things that we're not afforded to be able to go out and get or or to offer for certain people, but there are certain things that we are looking for in this person to ensure that they then come and and they do uh they do this job at a high level, right? And some of that's the character, some of that's the desire to learn and curiosity and all of that in between.

SPEAKER_01 19:04

Yeah. And first off, let me clarify that those things have changed over time. We're we're a much better position with what we're able to how we're able to uh support our assistants now, which is great. Um, and we're we so I can be a little more diligent in in hiring processes, and I think they've gone they've gone really well over the past few years. But um, I do think that in you know, in those early days here, it was it was because I was what we were you know, the the afford like you know, the constraint was you don't have this much salary. So but the the side bonus of you don't think about it is you get people who really want to do it. And so it it became very easy for me to to to hand off responsibilities, and I think um and that's proven out as people who have learned well in the in a program early on and been able to do a lot. So yeah, and and I you know that's the you know that that's the way I I want to have learned it and just been able to do it. And I was fortunate when I was a an assistant coach, you know, I worked in a couple programs that um very different two different programs before I got to Villanova very differently had to do, you know, um a lot of different things. So, you know, I was able to run the gym for for a year or so in in one program, and then the other one I had, you know, I was in charge of all the recruiting and budgeting and travel and all these other things. And so um, you know, you learn those things because you're doing them, and then and that really prepped me for what I'm doing, you know, here when I got this job.

SPEAKER_00 20:20

Maybe if we kind of go there for a moment, obviously there's there's some richness with kind of some of these early experiences in coaching that have shaped who you've become today. And and again, I'm uh, as I've heard you describe in other forms, that there's certainly a lot that you've taken from those um arenas and and through some of those people that you've had as mentors and guides. And also along the way, too, it's sometimes it's figuring out like, okay, what are the things that are, you know, maybe more authentic to you? And how do you also now lead in a way that's um you know more aligned with your own values and things like that that may have similarity, but again, also could be differences. When you think back to some of those earlier experiences, what are some of the things that are you've you've adapted and you've pulled from that continue to now show up in how you try to lead or build the culture? But also then what are some things that are um that you've quickly discovered early on, like okay, I need to actually make this my own and put my own fingerprint on it? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:18

Um good question. I think, you know, um, you know, I think the the learning being able to do things on your own and learn how to communicate in your own style is really, really important. And I and I think um, you know, I I I was like I said, I got to work with Russ Rose for a while. I I worked before that, I was at you know a high school program in Hoya, California, the Bishop School, where I I was a JV and an assistant varsity coach for Todd Maddox, um, who is a you know brilliant coach who's you know and and um so I got to learn from those those two early on, and then I worked for Reed Sunahara and Trina Smith as in some programs, and and everybody. had a different style of communication and the way they went about it. Um and I think learning that there are different different ways to to do those things was really important for me. Just just how you talk to you know student athletes and and or um coworkers or whomever and how you manage those people I think is really important. And and I think all those people had a really good way about how they dealt with some people or around them. And I hopefully grocery store shopped all you know their their good qualities, right? Like I just um yeah I I mean like you know they just all had some very genuine lovely qualities about them as part of how they talked to people and how they dealt with the people around them. And um you know some of them it was they were very very clear and direct and they were able to do that in a very effective manner. Some is they had you know they were they were able to make people how they made people feel they you know like made they were great with eye contact and good with you know just how they how they spoke to you. And so I think that the first thing that jumps out is all those people I got to work with um as an assistant were really really good at those things. And and I I'm sure I left out some people as well but I I think I think that um that piece I remember I remember I was a an assistant for a couple of years at San Diego Mesa College in a junior college where I played and Kurt Donaldson was my head coach and um one of the other people I worked there with there was a guy named Ojan Baronbeggy and Ojan um one day said to me he's like he's like Kurt communicates like he's like your beach partner like come on man let's get this thing together and like and that was true that's how coach Kurt kind of coached like because he was this beach guy that grew up playing doubles all the time and and be and was a great beach player and but when he got into coaching I think that's kind of he adapted that style and um and then he's like hey Todd communicates like a teacher like that's what he is he's like he's you know he's an English teacher and he'll like hey we we practice this we studied this here's the things we do and um it was very interesting how Ogge described these uh these people's styles and I think I thought about how everybody communicates from an early stage in my career. I think that's something that I've tried to try to be good at and I and I'm still not there yet. I think that's something that we we always want to get better at. I mean I I had finished up my individual meetings to the end of the semester and um there's one meeting I just gaffed and I just I texted it's like hey can we do that again we need to we need to read we didn't we didn't hit all the right points I don't think we got each other very well we didn't we didn't keep connect and so you know we we just gotta we have to admit failure sometimes and start over and do it again. So um that communication piece is something that I really um have honed in on. And as far as things that are on my own is like I'm I'm I'm never gonna be a disciplinarian and it's just not what I'm good at and I don't ever want to be that. I just um I don't have that feel in my gym and so um you know this is a this program's a cooperative and um if my captains come in and tell me something in here I'm we're gonna you know we're gonna listen and we're gonna give them credit for for knowing the program as well and having as much at stake that I do. And so I'm I'm not a dictator in this program at all. It's it's um I I have more say than maybe everybody else but I don't I don't want it to feel that way. I certainly I'm trying to make my program one where um I run too loose a ship instead of too tight a ship because I think the benefits of that are the cost benefit for me is better when when the the ship is a little bit loose than what and than when it's too tight. I I don't want everybody feeling like they can't tell tell me what's going on or need it if they need help with something that we're missing it. And um and so there are there are some you know there's some problems with that as well but um that's kind of how we've we've decided to run it. And I've been in some places where that wasn't the case. Everything was pretty you know um to the point and and directed. And so that's okay. That's you know everybody's gonna have their own style and things.

SPEAKER_00 25:57

It kind of ties in that I think you know on one hand what you're describing is like okay how do you continue to grow and learn and develop you know in this instance as a communicator at an individual level and how important that is. But then there's also this environment that you shape and that you create daily for those that you lead and and there those again there is certainly no singular way to do that. And there are many coaches and examples of people that have done it in very different ways and in essence very successful as you're describing.

SPEAKER_01 26:25

When you think about that environment like if you were to go a little bit further like when you think about the environment that you're trying to create for those that you're leading how in essence do you want them to describe it yeah I mean the the goal I mean I I you know I've lit like I listened to JJ as I'm sure you you talked about some core values at some point in time in that thing and and I'm sure that most programs have a a listing of core values right and um and I think those things are all all great and and we should have those but I think from for me the the guiding star is that when our players graduate here when they're done you know we have a we have a senior athlete banquet the week before graduation and um what I I want to be able to you know have them say to me something along the lines of you know Josh that was great. I wish I could do that again. You know or I'm I'm glad I came here. This was the right choice. And you know we're not going to hit it for everybody, but it it encompasses so many things that we're trying to do. We're we're trying to create an environment that is competitive where we're trying to win matches and you know we're playing at a high level because they want you know they're they're competitors, they want that. We're trying to create an environment where everybody feels cared for um and and thought about and no matter what your role is um on the court that you have a um have a a voice and you feel like you're just being seen and you're not being ignored and you're just you know you're not like a cog, right? And you're you're part of something that's bigger and um and so those pieces are really important. We want to make sure our athletes feel like that there's they're not just athletes, that they're student athletes and that they have a social life and that they've got um a spiritual life and they have um you know they have all of these there's all you know we we contain multitudes. So there's like how do we um you know bring those things out in the people who are around us and we want to make sure that we allow them the freedom to do the things that they want to do while they're college a special time of life and um and I want to make sure that they're not leaving here going that that was freaking terrible. I can't believe I went there and um and I think that's that's a challenge. But it's that's the for me that's the core value for me for how I run the program. And so um I've lost what your question was but at the beginning but I just started talking so hopefully it worked out.

SPEAKER_00 28:50

It did well no no I I I appreciated it's like you know yes like you could anyone could go the route of hey let me go define the core environment or culture that I want with values and things like that and then reverse engineer to think about how do you bring them to life and so forth. On the same vein though like when you have a a North Star like what you describe which is what you in essence want them to see or say and feel at the end of their time there and hey like I would love to go back. It makes a lot of things very downstream from that. Like if that is kind of the stuff like that is going to certainly still shape it's a different way to go about it but I think it's still immensely valuable and it still very much then shapes that environment that you're trying to create on a regular basis for them.

SPEAKER_01 29:34

Yeah yeah and it's uh like um you know and I don't know when I when when that came into my consciousness here is that that was the thing that we're we're trying to hit. I I do remember associating it with um you know when the when good to great came out and everybody was talking about a hedgehog concept and you have to have one thing to do and um and trying to boil down everything to like one thing. And I think so if you have something that you can just tie everything into it makes it it makes it pretty easy and um not easy. It makes it pretty simple and but it does you know um but certainly there's you know all kinds of things you have to be thinking about when you're thinking about hey how do I how do I make this experience for our student athletes and um so yeah I'm you know that's that's kind of the thing that gets going. And I said like like we don't get it we don't get every athlete right. I mean there's you know there's some some kids that leave here that you know didn't have the experience they wanted and and and sometimes that's on on us and sometimes it's just you know it's part of the circumstances and so but we're you know that doesn't mean we we don't you know you plug away and try and try and get it right for this next group and um you know for whatever reason we have we have a group right now that I feel really good about and um and things are going really well. So it's it's you know I I feel comfortable talking about it all right now because every we're in a good we're in a good spot.

SPEAKER_00 30:56

Yeah yeah I want to um you know kind of flip the mirror kind of back towards yourself for a moment. You know we talked a little bit about this environment and what you're trying to create for your players but you know one thing that I've appreciated in listening to some of previous conversations that you've had with others, you know, you you in essence describe this idea of like how difficult it can be at times to not lose yourself as a coach in this profession and and try to how you be the same person you know irrespective of sometimes the results and outcomes and again talk about control things sometimes outside your control. I I was interested to maybe have you talk a little bit more about what that means to you and maybe what you feel like the difference is like coaching from a space of of joy as opposed to like almost like survival um and and maybe how that's shown up for you.

SPEAKER_01 31:50

Yeah I think um I think I still really like what I do and I you know I've been I've been here for um this will be my 20th season come fall. And and and I've been through some doozies. Like I know I've been through some seasons where we weren't very good and we didn't win a lot of matches. And I I think everybody should go through that. You know I I don't think it's it's fair to be to you to have to go through every season where it's just great all the time. You you miss out on on so much. And it's really hard winning winning may solves a lot of problems right um and so when you have to deal with all of this stuff and you're trying to figure out how to win a match and man it it's it's it's easy to get wrapped up in in too many things that don't that don't matter. And so I I think you have to but you know like we talked about earlier you have to live some of that stuff to to figure it out. What what I will say is I I don't if I get to a point in time where it is only a relief to win a match and not and doesn't bring me joy and I don't I'm not I don't I don't say hey like that was awesome like um and sometimes even when we lose matches that that was awesome. That was so much fun right like um if if I don't have that then then I then I'll you know I'll have to find some somewhere something else to do because I still really have that and um you know it's interesting that the you said you know how do you not lose yourself I think I think you have it I I don't know the answer to that. I I really don't um I but because I know that that it's happened at times. But you know over the last five or six years life's kicked me in the teeth a little bit and um and somehow um you know staying kind of rooted in my job has really helped me through some of the things. And um and so you know it can be the opposite right the job can be going really hard and life can keep you rooted in things but you know because I get to be around young athletes who are excited about life and have this kind of like you know um whatever else it's really helped me through some things with when I've had really hard times going on outside of here. And then you know I so I think that's helped me a lot lately. I think when when we've had bad seasons here I've been fortunate enough to have really good friends to lean on and just talk to about it and say listen this is what's going on and you know I can call JJ I can call Todd Maddox I can call Russ I can call you know I have you know call my friend Danny Scott out of Cal State San Bernardino I you know I get on the phone with my former assistants and um I have these people that I I've been really really fortunate to to call my friends and my and my coaching cadre and so that's um that's kind of the things that have kind of kept me kept me together when things aren't good here. Yeah I think that kind of gets your answers.

SPEAKER_00 34:47

Yeah it does it does I mean again like I I think one thing that I appreciate oftentimes in these conversations is although most of it is obviously very much geared towards coaching and leadership and so forth like you could you could replace a lot of it with parallel conversations that show what players do. It's it's the same way with athletes where um as much as we sometimes want to keep things separate like uh what happens on the court versus what happens away from it like those things can blend and and like especially when things are uh maybe more chaotic or or just you're going through something outside of of volleyball for many like that it becomes a a space of like stability it becomes the space of groundedness and like again part of that too is because of who you're surrounded with like you're surrounded by people whereas like one of the things that oftentimes makes those things much harder is in isolation trying to navigate them. So it sounds in many ways like it's no different for any of us as coaches or leaders.

SPEAKER_01 35:43

You are right on and I think you know early on this you know my like I've referred to Todd a lot but I mean one of his things was education through sport. I remember him having it in his as a high school coach having on his thing is and and when I think about education through through sports through athletics it's it's not even about like book learning it's about life learning it's about like you know all the things that come out of of what we do and as a coach you know the the act of just being a good listener is incredibly important right and if you're uh if you're in a relationship whether it's a friendship or a you know a romantic relationship and you can't listen you're in big tr like you're in big trouble. Like you're not gonna do well. And so all these things parallel so well and just you know how how we go about this job in is is really applicable to so much of our life or so much of our life is applicable to this job. And so those you know that's for me that's a big part of why I love it so much.

SPEAKER_00 36:44

You know kind of to build a second you know I the word I guess that kind of was emerging for me as I was thinking what you're describing is how valuable it can be at times in a way especially when it's healthy is like for you to like share your humanity as a like coaches are human beings too you know athletes are human beings right and so and I think of it too so often with with coaching is it's like hey if we want our players to do or be X, then we also must have to be whatever. And so I part of me I guess where I I'm thinking of going with this is like given some of the things that you've had to endure in Turgo how important has that been along the way or how has it been helpful for you to like for you to be human and for you to like kind of share some of that or to model some of that for for your players along the way?

SPEAKER_01 37:41

Well it's it's a really Zach, thank you for that it's a really interesting question and it's one that I'm battling with all the time I think I think um you know uh of the things I've been through here while I've been a Villanova I went early on I went through divorce um when I was going through that I was miserable and I was having a hard time with it and one of my seniors came in and um and was like what is going on dude what's like was basically just calling me out like dude what's going on with you and I just told her what's going on. She's like well will you tell the team so that everybody's not like knowing what like wondering what what the hell you're angry about all the time like and I didn't you know I didn't think that I should be sharing what's going on in my personal life with my team at that time. And um and she just called me out on it said look hey we got we gotta you know like let us know and we'll be okay. We'll move on and we'll what you're like and you'll be like not hold holding on to this and and it that made things better at that time. You know in the the last five years I've dealt with you know my my partner going through cancer and and and um not surviving it and um you know and I had I don't had a cardiac arrest I've had all these things happen and and so I I maybe have overshared a little bit and I think that it's you know there's a there's a line in there to draw. Sorry about that. And so you gotta figure out those things as well and what's you know where you share and where you're vulnerable and um but I do think it's important that if you're asking people to be vulnerable as they go through as athletes and um with their teams and with with each other and that that we can model those behaviors. And you know so um again that's that's a line I'm I'm willing to blur once in a while and be like hey this is what's going on with me right now. I'm just letting you know and um you know and through some of it I I wasn't always great you know and um I think that's you know that's that's a learning concept and you know some of that was you know we like you know you stack things going through COVID and you're dealing with stuff at home and you've got all these things and and it's hard it's it's a lot harder all of a sudden to relate to your team and um but I think for me I've I've always felt comfortable just being like hey this is who I am this is what I'm going through this is what I'm dealing with and I I I you know I'm not asking for your sympathy or your whatever else I'm just asking you to understand that I'm a human person too and I'm not gonna get everything right along the way and I'm trying to do them you know I'm doing everything I can with what with the circumstances I'm going through are right now. Just like I'm gonna ask you to go do your best with the circumstances you have and you know we've had kids go through all kinds of things while they've been here they've been sick and and and not messing around sick sick sick and um and we've had some kids you know we've had who've lost parents and siblings and um you know all kinds of just really rough stuff and life is going to get you and and so and during your four years of college um there's good odds that something's gonna come up come up and so we want us we want to be there for you to be able to help and and help you get through those things as best we can and I hope that your to your teammates and your assistant coaches and myself can help through those things. But and it's uh it's interesting to whether you you know how much to share when to share I I don't know that I always get it right but I tend to I tend to be open an open book about those things more than um being super private. So I don't I don't know what's the right answer or the best or healthiest or or whatnot but um just kind of how I've been and it's true to me so that's okay.

SPEAKER_00 41:01

Like many things that I'm discovering in life uh there's not a playbook for it. Yeah yeah I don't I don't know to your point I don't know exactly what's the right answer and I think some days it can be one thing and some days it maybe it's something different but there there's there's a there's a few things in there though that I think are are um are really powerful and I think it's it also in some ways how nice it is to hear you describe too like even even now circumstances have have shifted and things you know still again still humans still navigating different challenges and so forth but like even hearing you talk about earlier the one-on-one that you have with this player and being open to be like hey like I I think I kind of watched that or like that didn't go exactly maybe in the the way that it needed to or was this helpful even just the acknowledgement of that I think is can be immensely valuable as a way to to it but to also like to strengthen trust and it I think where it my mind kind of went back to this and this may not have been at all how you were conceptualizing it per se maybe this is my own spin but like when you think about what you were saying having your players conclude their time at Villanova thinking I would love to do that again. It would be very easy for that to be you know to have that when like it's all highs and it's all joys and it's all like but the reality is it's like some of the most significant and meaningful part of that will be going through hard times and having people around you to go through it with you. And so now how you you know how that has been for you but also now how you are reciprocating that for your players to me is that's actually really immensely valuable.

SPEAKER_01 42:48

No you're 100% right I mean it's hey it's easy it's easy to just do it. Hey we come in we win a bunch of matches we do this we do this everybody's healthy you know people are happy in their roles we go oh like when everything fits nicely then there's not you know it's not that's it's it's it's simple you don't you don't have to you don't have to work at it that hard you don't have to spend mental energy thinking about how you're gonna manage a situation um you know when you're when you're hit with challenges I mean even if there are volleyball challenges right like hey all of a sudden we're we're not executing at this level we've we've got a bunch of kids out sick or like what what happen like those are the things like how do you manage those things um and then when they're big things you know um then you have you know you we've had you know that are that are there you know challenges you get some you know mental health disorder kid on your team you're not not sure how to handle and how to manage her and she knows that she's having a tough time and how can you help her get what she needs and um while staying true to the team and like you know these things are all things that are um are really you know they're never never easy and so we want to make sure that we're at least we're trying to handle everybody with the best care we can and um and like I said and being honest with You know, who I am and how I am and do doing it. And um and like you're right. I said I bought that meeting and I know I did, and it's been on my mind. I haven't you know I haven't done well for 24 hours because I just was like shoot, I got that right. And I think that that those things happen a lot and we just you know need to acknowledge we make mistakes. And too many people are just unwilling to admit mistakes ever, right? And and I don't I think I don't think that's good leadership. I think gr good you know great leadership is when people can sit there and go, hey, look, this is what I wanted to do, and this is what the plan was, and here's what why we thought that, but it didn't go right, so we're gonna make we're gonna change course, adjust, and do these things. Here's why. Um, and um you know, I've been fortunate enough to be around some administrators here and and whatever else that are very capable of those things as well, and that's um those are things good things to see see modeled, you know.

SPEAKER_00 44:55

Yeah, yeah. And then and then I think of it too, actually tying into you know our conversations earlier about your staff and who you surround yourself with. And I mean this ties in so well to them of like creating an environment where people have permission to not be perfect, for people to, like you mentioned, it's like, hey, like, okay, mistakes will happen. And it's also like we can still have high standards and we can still um you know give permit permission for people to to not be perfect along the way is um in in navigating that. But again, how do we how do we model it? How do we reflect it um and communicate it to me is is kind of what I hear you describe. And then, you know, you you kind of talked, you talked a little bit about um, you know, some of the things that were helpful for you, people and so forth, um, over the years in in helping you stay grounded. But I'm I'm I guess I'm also interested in you know, with that player that you mentioned who came in and said, Hey, what's going on here? Um, you know, because I think I I've been I've had my own experiences with this. Like I've had instances where players have come up and said, like, hey, why are the like why are you all stressing out? Like, why are you all like they can sense it? We think we're fooling them. They like it doesn't work. Like they they see right through it. And and so I've I've I've had my own chin checks with this in in the past. And um, I I guess I'm curious, like, are there things that you feel like you've learned um about what your players really need from you amidst these moments?

SPEAKER_01 46:31

Um I I think what you're asking is is is have I have I learned what different players need from from me? I think I think that's a variable. I think they it changed, you know, like different the the the hardest part about you know any relationship dynamic is you know Jack, you and I could be friends and you know there's some times when you just know you need to be left alone even though things are tough and you want to work things out for a minute and then you can't talk about it. And send some people you know, another my my other friend here needs to just get get it out and go and talk. And so you know, the hard part is to hit is to be able to adapt to what the people are in in front of you are and uh the the people uh easy for me to say. The hard part is to adapt to what you know what your current group of people is, and um you know, and because you're with a team dynamic that changes every year, um every semester a little bit, but um is that um you've got to make sure you you know your all you know your crowd a little bit. And um and you know, I know this this particular group has has some really great strengths and I can I can get in there and talk to them about pretty much whatever's going on and and they're gonna be good. But there's some things that they're not interested in. And so we we kind of you know, like I just I have a good feel for this one, right? And I think sometimes you don't you don't have that and you miss and you have to figure out, you know, you have to learn a little bit about your group. Um so I think that's I think that's what you're asking.

SPEAKER_00 48:00

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that's great. I um um as we kind of you know bring it kind of towards the end, one of the things that I definitely wanted to um ask a little bit about is I think you there was a previous conversation that you used maybe within the last year or two, that um the term you use, this is kind of going back to like your development and growth as a leader. And I think you kind of mentioned like kind of going through this uh learning renaissance of sorts, you know, just like continuing to grow and whatnot. And so I'm just um I kind of wanted to build off of that a little bit of like what are things right now that you're you're studying, you're exploring, and that you're you're trying to to maybe grow in intentionally as a leader.

SPEAKER_01 48:41

I think you know, I I think I for the for a long time, I mean this is that this is coaching theory now, right? Like I used to be a very much a a very kind of rigid single contact, feedback-based loops, um, and and then we you know spent half to you know three quarters of practice through that kind of stuff, and then we'd get into play at the end a little bit and just play some straight games and we'd score manipulate a little bit and and um you know I've gotten a little bit into the um the const the CLA, the constraints-led approach here, which has really been fun, and and that has kind of just opened up some way ways that I've thought about doing things in our gym that have been really, really fun. And and um gosh, I don't know who I heard say it, but I I think it was from Casey Kreider. But he said something along the lines of instead of coming to the gym every day with all the answers to give the team, now we come to the gym with questions. And it is and we present those in the forms of games to play. And it is really cool. It's just like so we're we're playing games through you know, different styles of games now for three quarters of practice, probably, you know, maybe even a little bit more, and and that has been a real change in in what we've done, and it's been super fun, and the kids are having such a good time in the gym, and um and there's small sided games, right? So I don't um you know if for for us and just like doing some you know uh small groups and or uh score manipulation or court manipulation, like we're just doing all kinds of things that are to try and change the dynamics a little bit and get some some random activities so we're learning in different ways. And I'm watching it a group of people that's that's really embraced it and and had a good time with it. And so that coaching renaissance over the past three or four years um kind of slowly building and and um um you know, and and I've got this good group of people to talk to about what we're doing in coaching, you know, three or four people I'm on the phone with all the time and um sharing practice with and watching and you know um uh and getting out and watching some other people do some things, and it's it's been really fun. And and so anytime we can learn new stuff and start doing things and and we feel good about it to do it in a different way is this exciting times of life, no matter what, no matter what the thing is, you know.

SPEAKER_00 50:59

Yeah. I love the distinction. Yeah, I mean, for so long it's like, yeah, how do you you coaching is generally showing up with the answers, but then like you mentioned, shifting that to questions. I've also heard uh, you know, people, particularly as they talk through CLA and whatnot, of uh, you know, showing up with you know, like it's like creating a practice where it's like a uh almost like a puzzle to solve or problem, you know, through problem solving, right? And I think the same vein, it's it's when you ask those questions. I think what's nice about that too, in many ways, is and I don't know if this is your experience at all um uh uh in your sport and at your level and so forth, but part of it too is how often I have to remind myself that many of the athletes that I've worked with, like in many instances, they know answers. Like they actually have a like nowadays too, like they're acumen for the game and everything because of the resources and access and sheer amount of time that they're putting into it. Like they're coming into it oftentimes with a pretty deep reservoir of of expertise already, per se, where they know it. The and part of your job sometimes is to be the reminder for them, to be the person or to ask them the question that invites them to think about it in a way that maybe they haven't before. And and that to me has become a it's become a fun shift in many ways. And it also removes some of the pressure on you thinking like you have to be the one to have all the answers.

SPEAKER_01 52:23

No, now I'll just ask questions. Hey, how'd that feel? Yeah, what did you what did you see there? What did you like? You know, you want to try that one again? Or like and it's and they those you know, the the they're smart kids, so they you know they have good, they have good answers. And they're like, let's uh let's remember to tag that one on the film and watch that one and see what we thought, see what we think again later. And um, and so you know, um it started actually when I started um you know um thinking uh I didn't know anything about flip the classroom, but the the idea of flipping the classroom was a really interesting idea, was just like sending them lessons, sending them things to watch on video, and they're like, okay, let's do this and practice now. And so I started kind of with a little bit of that stuff and then started learning more about CLA, and it just kind of all integrates really nicely. And um, you know, it goes back to stuff that you know, old stuff. Like I mean, inner game of tennis is you know um just such a good one. And our freshmen all read it before they come in and have for a number of years. And I just think all these things just integrate so well and are are all about kind of the same thing. Hey, how are we learning? How are we um going about figure you know solving those problems? And you're exactly right. It's it's a puzzle to solve. And in isn't every match a different puzzle? And it certainly is, and that's why coaching and and playing sports is so exciting all the time. It hits all the brain centers, you know.

SPEAKER_00 53:42

Yeah. I I said that earlier, and I like my mind immediately went to like, who has told me that? Like, there's and I I um you may know uh Billy Allen. He has to coach your brains, right? Like I'm pretty sure I heard it from him.

SPEAKER_01 53:54

That might be that might be where that came from. So I think it might have been the Billy Allen interview with with Casey Kreider, and those guys um really got into all that stuff. So that sounds sounds right. I don't know those guys. I I mean I've I've never had the interaction with them, um, but I do listen to the the podcast uh um pretty regularly.

SPEAKER_00 54:11

Yeah, awesome, awesome. Yeah, no, I'm I'm I was sitting there going through, I'm like, I've heard this phrase, who'd have heard oh Billy, like Billy's and literally I think we we titled the the episode. It was like learning as a as a puzzle or something like that. Or and so um I love that. My my last thread that I kind of wanted to to go off of, and it kind of continues in the form of learning in a sense, but maybe in a different way, because I think one thing you discover um is how sometimes the best way to learn is is to teach, is to share. And, you know, hearing you talk about the importance of surrounding yourself with peers, and I've also heard you talk about how important it has been to be a mentor to other coaches. And so I'd love to kind of just hear you describe kind of why that has been so important or meaningful for you. And my part two is like, are there things that you've learned about yourself through the mentorship of others as well?

SPEAKER_01 55:07

Um the last parts are that really good question. Let me come back to that. I think the mentorship is is one of the most enjoyable pieces of what you get to do, right? Like when when my my old my former people or friends that are coaches call me and ask me questions, like, hey, how what have you how have you handled this? Or what have you like um like uh you know Julia uh I when I talk when I got the opportunity to talk to Julia Mississippi State, I don't know what when it was, she was she was going through a little little bit of a patch and and she just called me and we just talked for a while and I get off the phone and she's like oh it's just like for whatever reason that's the stuff that pulls on heartstrings when you can try and help somebody else through somebody something that's going that's going bumpy here. Um and um you know and she's she's great at her job on her own. She doesn't need me, but when when somebody reaches out like that, it feels really good. And um so I think the the pieces of mentorship are number one, it just it's it's fulfilling. It's like one of those things where you're like, you know, um and I don't know if that's a a natural human instinct to try and pass on knowledge or or whatever else, but it certainly feels good. Um and uh you know from a learning standpoint, you know, I think um I I was thinking about some doctor show from way back in the day, and I think it was about surgeons and it was like um I forget what the phrase was, it was like read one, watch one, do one. Um and it was about how you should, you know, uh for you know for procedures, right? It was like, hey, read about it, watch one, and then do one. Or something like that. And that's not that's not right, but it was in that vein of like, hey, you just let's and um and that's the you know, or may maybe it was maybe it was watch one, do one, teach one, or something like that. I don't remember exactly. But it reminds me that like those like all those phases are really important parts of the learning process. Not just not just the learning how to do it, but then the also the the the moving on of the knowledge, right? And so um sometimes when somebody calls you and asks you the question, you know, if it's a volleyball question, if it's uh it's a life question, if it's uh, you know, whatever recruiting whatever the thing is, that you all suddenly are passing on a lesson that maybe you forgot. And you remember because somebody's asked you this question, and and it it never fails that the timing of those things happening are relevant, right? So somebody calls you with this problem, and then in the next I don't know how long you something happens to you like I'm glad that that person called and gave me that thing because I gotta remember that that lesson too, and I need it from me. And so I would say that that's probably what what what comes out of that most often that I that I can think of, and um and and why some of that mentorship stuff is really good learning.

SPEAKER_00 57:56

I love that. I empathize with that very much so. I've I've found that you know conversations of sorts, to your point, with others have certainly drawn or are brought to the surface those things. And like, you know, reading books sometimes, like I I was just telling somebody the other day, it's like you read something or you listen to somebody talk about something, and you know, then it it almost like inevitably shows up in real life. Like you don't even have to force it oftentimes, like it just reveals itself.

SPEAKER_01 58:21

Yep, those things just pop up amazingly. It's uh yeah, life is is funny that way, huh?

SPEAKER_00 58:26

Yeah, yeah. Um, and then uh my very last question is one that I pose to every guest. Um is what's something, Josh, that you're proud of that maybe you don't always get an excuse to talk about?

SPEAKER_01 58:42

Oh wow. Um something I'm proud of that I don't I mean Yeah. Um well I my my brain went to two spaces uh right away and so like you know I I don't I in in this job I talk about my job a lot, right? So but you know, hey I I I've got I've got two adult sons that are um uh that are really cool guys that I like to hang out with and and um you know being a parent um has been a huge part of my you know of my life for you know twenty-seven years now and that's um uh probably the thing that I struggle with most in in claiming credit for instead of just taking blame for. Right. And so but I I really am I think at my core proud of the job I've done with my boys and um and um you know my 27-year-old called me for to talk f through some finances recently and I was like, oh okay, as we're we're in like we're in big boy type territory now. This is cool. Um and uh so I think that that was that would be one. Um and then you know, it doesn't always happen, but uh you know, and we never get we never get to talk about these the kids that don't that don't impact wins and losses with on court performance very often, but um I mean uh this happened to me yesterday and it's happened a couple times in my career where I felt really good about it. And and this kid in a meeting yesterday said and she's a a rising senior who has played really, really very little over her her career, and I'm sure based on what we thought when she was coming in, she's disappointed in that and and um rightfully so, and she's you know just not really um but what she said was um she felt like she had this past this past academic year had her best year of playing volleyball ever. And it was so much fun, and uh she was just having a great time and really appreciated what was we what was going on here and is really looking forward to her senior year in whatever role that might be. And that just is the coolest thing ever. And it happens sometimes, you you know, you're get you're doing something right when you've got a kid who's not playing very much and doesn't have a role that they might like, um, but is still having experience you're hoping that they'll have.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:13

I think um in the spirit of what you described again earlier, as that again, North Star just trying to create this environment where people would love to do it again. Yeah, I'm I think that's a really nice kind of fitting example per se. And again, I think the thing too that I've appreciated is we all can have our North Star, we can all have our values and things like that. And that doesn't certainly mean that we will be perfect along the way. So I'm appreciative of you being vulnerable and sharing some of the things that have, hey, we're we're we're trying to figure it out, we're seeing what works, but we're also willing to acknowledge where we've missed that where we've had mishaps or mistakes and and how we're also still growing throughout the process. So I appreciate you, Josh, just kind of uh peeling back the curtain a bit on you as a leader and as a coach, and also like kind of the broad range of different spaces that we were able to kind of dive into and and and um and speak to. So uh I just want to thank you first and foremost for your time.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:11

Well, thank you very much for having me. It was a fun conversation and uh and um you know it's stuff I really enjoy talking about. So I appreciate having me on and uh love the podcast and uh looking forward to uh hearing some of your uh new stuff.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:26

All right, that wraps up my conversation with Josh Steinbach. As always, I want to say thank you to all of you who continue to listen, share these conversations with others, and support the show. And if you've been enjoying the podcast, one of the simplest ways that you can help, uh not only by following the show, is uh sharing an episode with somebody that you think might benefit from it, or if you'd be even so willing uh to leave a five-star rating or review. It's gonna help uh more individuals come across these conversations and I think really benefit from them. And before you go, just again, one last quick reminder on Friday, September 4th, I'm hosting my first leadership in-person workshop called the Game Changers Advantage in Scottsdale, Arizona. Again, it's a full-day experience designed not just for coaches and sport leaders, but also corporate leaders, sales professionals, entrepreneurs, or just anybody that wants to find another edge in how you lead, perform, and navigate the demands of a high performance life. So if that sounds like something that you'd enjoy, or there's somebody that comes to mind who you think might benefit from being in that room, I've included additional information in the show notes. And if you have questions or just want to talk through it a little bit, uh don't hesitate to reach out. Uh, I'd be more than happy to connect. Thanks again for listening. Thanks for continuing to support the show. And until next time, keep finding ways to win more and live better.