Episode 15 – Evan Roberts on AP Calculus Readiness, Math Anxiety, and Why Review Must Start Early

In this episode of the SupportED Learning Podcast, Dr. Joe Sebestyen sits down with Evan Roberts to explore why so many students struggle in AP Calculus and what actually helps them build confidence and mastery in advanced math. Evan shares insights from his work as the founder of Math Made Simple Tutoring, where he specializes in AP calculus, AP statistics, SAT and ACT math prep, and helping students reduce math anxiety through better teaching, responsive feedback, and consistent support.

Dr. Joe Sebestyen and Evan Roberts discuss the structural gaps that hold students back in higher-level math, especially weak algebra foundations, delayed cumulative review, and a school system that often prioritizes pacing over genuine understanding. They also unpack the pressure many families feel around STEM pathways, college readiness, grades, and AP exam performance, while explaining why exposure to rigorous content matters more than chasing status or rushing ahead too quickly.

The conversation also examines how AI is affecting math education, how students use tools like PhotoMath and ChatGPT, and why coaching, accountability, and human connection still matter. From inquiry-based learning and group problem solving to realistic AP exam preparation timelines, this episode offers practical guidance for parents, students, and educators who want a more thoughtful approach to success in math.

Thanks for tuning in to the SupportED Learning Podcast with Dr. Joe Sebestyen. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe for more insights on education, critical thinking, and AI integration in learning. Visit our website at supportedtutoring.com

Remember to share this podcast with fellow parents and educators who are passionate about reimagining education for tomorrow's world. Until next time, keep supporting learning! 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

You're listening to the Support Ed Learning Podcast, where we challenge the status quo of education and reimagine what learning should be. I'm Dr. Joe Sebastian, and in every episode we dive into critical thinking, Linux taxonomy, educational innovation, and how AI is shaping the future of learning. Whether you're a teacher, parent, policymaker, or lifelong learner, you're in the right place to rethink, reshape, and revive education. All right, welcome back to the Supported Learning Podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Joe Sebastian. I am joined today by Mr. Evan Roberts. Evan, welcome to the podcast. How are you?

SPEAKER_02 0:38

Doing well. No school today.

SPEAKER_01 0:40

Can't beat it. Yes, it's nice. Happy Presidents' Day. That's right. Evan, you are uh the founder and head teacher at Math Made Simple Tutoring. Uh you have an over a decade of experience as an academic coach and an educator. You specialize in AP calculus, AP statistics, and SAT and ACT math prep. And you've led a team of certified teachers providing structured live online lessons. Your expertise, I love this, in reducing math anxiety and making complex concepts accessible, using inquiry-based learning and small group instruction for genuine mastery. You're also known as the friendly neighborhood Spider-Man approach to tutoring. And you focus on, which I think really rings true to what we do as well, is moving students beyond rote memorization to true understanding and pioneer in using digital communities like Discord for student engagement. So again, welcome to the podcast.

SPEAKER_02 1:42

When people want a math tutor, they really want someone like in the neighborhood, is what I think of. Ideally, it's a friend of a friend or just someone that you feel comfortable with, and that like friendly neighborhood math teacher is kind of what I'd go for.

SPEAKER_01 2:02

I live about a mile from the high school I taught at. And are you still an active teacher or did you go full into the tutoring business now?

SPEAKER_02 2:11

Uh yes and no. I had my fourth child this summer, so this is my first school year not in the classroom. Oh, okay. And so yeah, my wife and I both decided to work part-time this school year to try to navigate four kids. And I'm hopeful that I'll go back. Um, if not this next school year, the year after that, just because like I said, I live about a mile from the school. I went there myself. Um just very passionate about that building and those kids. So hope to get back there soon.

SPEAKER_01 2:49

Yeah, it's it's nice being well, being that local and being that connected to the school is very, very important. Um, so I guess what was the moment you realized most students were struggling with math itself, but actually with the anxiety over how math was being taught?

SPEAKER_02 3:04

A lot of things come to mind. I'm pretty invested in building thinking classrooms, which is a big math movement in terms of in-person instruction. And it really that strategy and concept just makes math way more inclusive for kids and really just increases student engagement crazy in person. And so I think implementing those strategies and then just seeing like how many of my own AP calculus students were not AP calculus ready for the course, right? Really just highlighted a need for this is a problem in little Fort Wayne, Indiana, and it's a problem all over the country that kids just aren't really ready for AP calculus, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_01 3:57

Do you think that comes from like the learning progressions and how schools are vertically integrated or lack thereof and the gaps that exist from grade to grade, or do you think it's something deeper?

SPEAKER_02 4:09

There's a bunch of things we could probably talk about. I think one issue is like with the teacher shortage, so many math teachers can't even do calculus. They are literally scared and will not help kids with calculus. And so if your algebra one teacher and algebra two teacher doesn't really know like what you're gonna really need to do, they might be goofing around with things that aren't even really helpful down the line. Whereas, like, if you just take a random skill like factoring, if you cannot factor, you will have absolutely no shot in A B calculus. And it's just a random thing like that, where that vertical alignment is just kind of missing in a lot of schools.

SPEAKER_01 4:58

What problem are you ultimately trying to solve that traditional math classrooms aren't addressing?

SPEAKER_02 5:05

Yeah, that's a good question. I guess in my program, um we're really known for availability and feedback. I just got off a call with a mom today where I told her that every feature, every Zoom call, every interaction is based around how can we be as available as possible to kids and how can we give them as much feedback as possible. And so it doesn't feel like different or new, it just feels like good teaching of like my own students. It's like, okay, you're failing. Why are you not here at school after school during lunch? I'm here and I'm not gonna kick you out of my room. So come utilize the teacher right in front of you, assuming that we had a decent relationship.

SPEAKER_01 5:57

I found that's like what I was what I was teaching that too is I usually did my best teaching in terms of where the most growth was from the one-on-one experience when they, you know, we actually had like a blocked out school-wide study hall so kids could come and get that support. But it's almost to a point where, especially with complexity of like calculus and AP statistics, kids need that extra uh personalized guidance. And so there has to be opportunities for that. And is that kind of where you found um you know a way to really start a tutoring business out of?

SPEAKER_02 6:32

Yeah, honestly, I thought like if I could just do what I do during the day online for like five kids, this would be great. And then it turned out okay, I guess a lot of people need availability and feedback. And so it just kind of took off from there. And um, I wish I could serve more kids, but there's only so many that we can kind of do well and maintain a high quality experience. So this time we're typically full, unfortunately, right when people need most help with the AP season, right?

SPEAKER_01 7:09

For sure. Here, yeah. In the process of bringing on two more math people ourselves. Uh so we use Slack uh for student engagement, you use Discord. Uh, how's that help change the tutoring experience compared to traditional models?

SPEAKER_02 7:23

I it's funny you asked that because a lot of tutors like intentionally put up barriers. Like, how is there a way to make you not be able to talk to me? Is the like the vibe, and they're almost like protecting their tutors from kids being too uh involved in like messaging outside the sessions, but I kind of flipped that on its head, and it's like, no, you should message me. Like you should ask for help in between the sessions. That should be a part of this relationship. My personal rule of thumb as a teacher was if a kid emailed me, I should have responded to them before I see them in person again. Um, and so I use a similar approach that if you drop me a message of, hey, can you give me some feedback on this? You should hear from me, from me either before the end of the night or um by noon the next day.

SPEAKER_01 8:28

As I'm looking at over our, we have about, I don't know, 200 different Slack channels, and it can be a lot, especially bringing new people on board. But I think that's usually what's missing because like traditional tutoring, you're like, hey, see you on Tuesday, and then won't see it. Well, you won't be able to talk to me for like the whole week and stuff, right? Things come up during that time. So um with AI everywhere now solving AI solving math problems, um how do you ensure students are actually learning and not just getting their answers from AI?

SPEAKER_02 9:01

Yeah, that's a good question. I think um it comes down to the students' goals and really what they want. If they just want to get an A in the class and they their homework is 40% of their grade, they're probably gonna use AI to get that 100% on those homework questions. Um, but it's really all about like how they use it. Well, right, what about the other 60% of your exams? And so I think that's where that coaching and mentorship comes into play of like use your resources, work smarter, not harder, but also you're gonna have to be able to do this on May 11th without any kind of support. So you might as well kind of put AP example through it now. Right.

SPEAKER_01 9:45

Um you see, because obviously you interface with a lot of parents as well. What do you think the biggest misconception is about online tutoring and to ed tech tools for math?

SPEAKER_02 9:55

Yeah, that's a good question. I think online tutoring, it can feel like my kid can't do that. And it's like, well, I'm writing on their paper that they took a picture of and sent to me exactly what I would do in person. And so obviously, there's probably poor online instruction. Um, if they are working with someone that can use technology well, it truly is, in my opinion, a no-brainer. Like, why would you drive, sit through traffic, and have a kid going to swimming and a kid in basketball, and then you gotta take this other one, AP calc tutoring. You know, you're gonna just save so much time and effort online.

SPEAKER_01 10:36

It's crazy because I still get one of the one or two of those calls every now and then of like, what we decided to go the in-person route. We think it's just even though it's like, you know, we're like AP exam prep, like this is our this is our bread and butter of what we do, but we're just gonna go to Huntington Learning Center or something, you know, something like that, with no knock on them, but just like, yeah, but you're like talking to someone who is like expert. I don't understand how that's gonna change. Like everyone, every model has its drawbacks, right? You might not be as special to specialized at that local place. Um it is interesting. It's like, well, the medium is really, and I think it goes back to just probably how poorly instruction was universally across the board in um during COVID. People are just like, we still have it, but I think we're definitely moving more and more towards it being a more effective teaching model if you can be interactive. Right. Um, so calculus is hard, I heard. Uh how do students hit a wall when they get to it? What's the big structural gap between earlier math classes and advanced coursework?

SPEAKER_02 11:39

Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head earlier about AI and using it correctly. Um, typically an algebra issue. Like I will tell the kids like this step is calculus, these 12 steps now are algebra. Like your pre-calc friends, a year younger than you, could do this these 12 steps down here. They just don't know these first two calculus steps. And so, you know, photo math that came out probably 10 years ago in that like the math teacher's world of like can take a picture and get the answer immediately. Like, and especially if you're assigning just like procedural questions, a kid can literally do their homework in probably three minutes if it's 20 questions. Um, if you do that all of middle school, all of algebra one, all of algebra two, you're just like gonna know those skills. You didn't have to like get it, you know.

SPEAKER_01 12:38

Um whoever does the work does the learning. Yep. Okay, because like come from the humanities background, I'm much more keen to the history curriculum, the AP. We have you know, there's some um in of what we offer because we do have math tutors and stuff like that. But I get a lot of parents coming like that are pushing STEM, which I'm sure you get as well, right? There's such high pressure stakes in calculus, a little bit less than statistics, but physics, chemistry, right, all involving some level of rigorous math. Um, do you think it's also potentially the parents putting so much pressure on the kids that they're just like, I'm just gonna because I don't not that they're lazy, but it's just like it's such high stakes. I'm just gonna use my resources to figure it out so I can try to cheat my way through it.

SPEAKER_02 13:31

Yeah, that's a good question. There's such a multitude of factors of what causes a kid stress. Um, and I do think parents are a part of that. But I mean, there is a reality that like might be better off taking that class at their college, not the five that's important. It's that you're not getting absolutely destroyed at Purdue when you take calculus there. Like, even I was in a messenger conversation today about a mom whose kid wants to have an easier senior year, so they're taking AP stats instead. And I'm like, you're trying to go to Purdue, um, a couple other engineering schools, and you're not gonna take calculus in high school. That is like the craziest thing I've ever heard. You are making your life harder by doing it. Right. Um, and so I think parents could probably chill out with the like of the class and the actual score. Um it's just the exposure to the content. Same thing with chemistry, physics, all that. Um the fact that they're not learning it for the first time at Purdue, at North Carolina, Vanderbilt, wherever they're trying to go, um that they're seeing it before then.

SPEAKER_01 14:48

And it's so hard to convey that, especially when you have a GPA attached to it, right? There's grades, and it's if they're not seniors, if they're the junior year, the all-important junior year, and they're trying to get in somewhere competitively, it's like they can't. So, like we're have a lower grade because it might hurt us college missions, but at the same point, what are you actually learning? Right? You're not it it be the grade might be a reflection of what you don't know, but you doesn't mean you can't. And so their parents do panic, right? Probably seek out our services. Um regarding the five on the AP calculus exam. What do you feel like is the key variables in determining success there?

SPEAKER_02 15:25

Yeah, that just made a post about that today, so thanks for asking. Um for a kid that has a shot at it, the reality is some kids they're just gonna get there. Like, I I hate to say that, but like you have so many gaps that a five is just not in the question. I'm I'm sorry to tell you that. But the kids that have a shot, um the thing that really holds them back is they waited too long for cumulative review. So I love that my February prep feels early, and I'm like, I I get that it feels early, but you have spring break of your senior year, you have prom. My high school always schedules prom the weekend before calculus. It doesn't matter, it just somehow always happens right um the the week before the AP test. And so I tell my kids like multiple choice Monday, you're doing a unit two question. I know we're in unit seven, but you forgot all the unit two stuff. If they start doing that in April, you know, that's not terrible, you're at least a month out, but like let's make your life easier and just do it starting in February.

SPEAKER_01 16:47

Yeah, it's baffles me uh because I'll we'll enroll kids mostly all the way up potentially to the exam, um, sometimes at our own detriment, I guess. It's like they're panic, and it's like I don't want to say no, and I'm like, you have to have realistic expectations of what's gonna happen. But yeah, I've always seen the 12-week kind of like demarcation, 12 to 10 weeks out because of the flexibility. Because I'm like, listen, I spring for some reason flies by, even though March for teachers and administrators sucks, but like you blink and you're already in April, and there's spring break, like you said, people get sick, there's traveling, there's all kinds of different demands on kids' attention, and then when the sun starts coming out, I don't want to be anywhere near education, right? Like it's like we're almost we have a preview of summer, and it's just I have not seen it done well inside of four weeks. Like, and that's what crazy is most schools are set up for that, right? They're like, We're ending our curriculum by April, we're ending our curriculum with two weeks left. I'm like, you're waiting to start review. I parents, I'll just I'll I'll I'll stack in March after the SAT. I'm like, get a plan together now. It's so much that if you're not working through that, you're really setting yourself up to just completely cram. And again, what kid doesn't come to us with gaps that they have to be fixed, and like you catch those early and can really work on this? So it if you you are you hit the nail on the head there in terms of that. So so your fives are earned in February, not May. Right. Really? Um what uh might upset parents, but is still true about their child's math journey.

SPEAKER_02 18:25

Um, they don't want to hear that a lot of schools they don't care about the five, they still want you to sit in calc one. Um what are you gonna do? You're gonna tell Purdue, no, my kids in Calc two, like no, it doesn't matter how much money you make or what school you went to, they're gonna make them sit in calc one again. Right. And you just can't control that. A lot of like Dan Meyer is a big math person I've followed for a long time, and he's like, why are we rushing through calculus? Like these kids taking diffy q and linear algebra in high school, like it's a flex, right? Like you status thing, you look good, but like Purdue still wants you to take their Diffy Q class. Um, I know I keep talking about Purdue, but that's just where I went.

SPEAKER_01 19:15

And well, you're locally, it's either a Hoosier or Purdue, or maybe another in Indiana. I got you. No worries. It's a good, it's a great engineering program.

SPEAKER_02 19:25

Right. And so these these get so accelerated, it's like to what end? Like so you can tell your friends you took calc three in high school, but you're still sitting in that class as a freshman in or sophomore in college, you know?

SPEAKER_01 19:39

It's like I I come up, it's I I'm old by any means. I'm gonna be 38 this year. I don't remember anyone flexing on other kids in high school, but the level of math they took, but I get it. Because I was in schools, that is like yeah, you're in discreet, discreet, but I don't what does that mean? Shh, don't tell me one math. I don't know. That's like I didn't get past, I don't think I got past uh calculus. I love that. I can't remember. I did not, I was like, this is not. I'm I'm good.

SPEAKER_02 20:06

I wasn't telling my AP lying exam score, so yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:09

Yeah, actually, don't worry. I didn't do well my AP US history team. I ended up becoming the it's like it's not it's really I just did no I did no the same thing, APS history. The I remember we did zero prep for it or very little prep for it, and the exam was on prom day, like the entire school got out half day, and we had the afternoon AP US exam, and none of us cared. Like we're like, we do not want to be here. So it's like it's I don't know why College Board does that to us, but it was yeah, it was the Friday of prom. I definitely remember that. So um I guess if you could change one thing about how high school prepares students for advanced math, what would it be?

SPEAKER_02 20:51

Oh, that's a great question. Um, there's so many problems, but I think one one is like how do we give teachers the space to like get better at the actual job? Like, so much of my time went to like things that didn't help me get better at AP Calc teaching. Um I had to be like motivated to win, for example. Like my teacher was my AP Calc teacher, my football coach. So like he's king in my world, right? And so I wasn't gonna keep he I never beat him. His scores were always higher than mine, unfortunately. Um I was like, well, you're not gonna beat me by that much. Like, I'm gonna like compete here, you know. Gotcha. Without that kind of like internal drive to do well and do right by my kids, so many teachers just don't have the like stamina to like listen to a teaching podcast after school. or build some free professional development because they're just like stuck in dumb meetings about changes at the state level, you know, or whatever. And so um my principal tried to like protect us from that like annoying he wasn't always successful. So I that is a huge issue is that teachers just don't have the like capacity.

SPEAKER_01 22:24

It just keeps put more on without taking any off. Right. Right. What was the most meaningful change you've seen when a student moves beyond rote memorization to genuine mastery?

SPEAKER_02 22:36

Yeah I mean I did building thinking classrooms earlier but like it's of creating a of thinkers and learners. I saw kids that were like in years past in like a math class would be like completely checked out, not engaged. Um and the gift I was able to give a kid like that like this girl named Emily comes to mind of just like her the the the class was structured gave her the space to like learn with others and not just like put her head down for the whole second semester. And so the way of vertical learning where they're standing in groups with one marker on a whiteboard thinking together and not just memorizing a procedure like just scooped up a lot of those kids that otherwise would just be fully checked out.

SPEAKER_01 23:32

Gotcha. The that's um that's pretty insightful in terms of like like I you'd have to reach kids in a different way right I mean interesting getting them to engage actually walk in the walk with them because ultimately it it's the it's it is the way you deliver it in terms of like I just just so anti-lecture in terms of just the only delivery method and it's like at the end of the day what what are they doing um with what they like how can they show you what I think math lends itself to that but I I've not been sometimes taught poorly um in some ways as well.

SPEAKER_02 24:08

So yeah like like Peter Lilito's work really comes hard at like they're just mimicking you they're not learning. They're literally just writing down what you wrote down and then swapping out the numbers based on the question. They are not thinking or learning they are mimicking. And there's gonna come a time in a lot of kids that's calculus where that like mimicking culture just isn't going to work anymore. Like they literally will not be successful if you're used to just mimicking the math class.

SPEAKER_01 24:48

Going through the motions basically and not actually thinking through the problem. Right. Do you find that sometimes in your tutoring program too it's like uh I'm not gonna I'll call my so you're telling me you're you want your kid to be a doctor and I sent you very simple instructions to read and follow and it wasn't followed it's like I like I don't know how I don't how I can like it literally I I record a video for you walking you through what you need to do. But we didn't read the directions so we're okay I don't know how we're gonna get to this advanced engineering program. There's just there's a gap there too. I think but I don't blame those people individually I just blame a society where everything is so personalized and catered to your everything like you don't and it just like it's not how life works like anymore.

SPEAKER_02 25:31

It's not I mean like you know on your phone sure everything's catered to you but it's just like you gotta there's there's gotta be some effort before we I'm stuck like I don't know did you try anything so um do you find that too that sometimes happens yeah I think that that can be the pushback with families of my program is that there's like they can learn with other kids and I'm like they've been with other kids for 12 years like they can't and so I have to push back on this like one-to-one model where yes one-to-one tutoring is like fine and helpful but why would you pay 200 an hour when you could pay 200 a week and get help every day like me it's it's a no-brainer like okay yeah there's two other kids there but there's so much more happening than just getting your homework question answered it's seeing Sandvika show up every day and hustle as a learner it's like it's more competitive than the average person but she's not going to outwork me you know have that like competitive edge to oh she did all that work okay like work hard too and so everything doesn't have to be so incredibly individualized kind of like what you were saying.

SPEAKER_01 27:01

Yeah I find that too because we have a blend of one-on-one we have group classes but I don't charge enough for our one based on what you just threw out there you probably don't charge enough for our one-on-one services but it's just like what but it's like at the end of the day um it it's like because they're in a classroom full of 30 kids and they're probably quiet they're not actually engaged they're just sitting and getting doesn't mean that group instruction is wrong. They're gonna mean group instruction for the rest of their lives basically if they're a college career too is not you know all there's a time and place like sometimes you do need some personalized things but you are right about that on that too. So um we are coming to the point of the podcast where we do rapid fire. So you do not have I I really cheat the rules of this where you don't have to explain your answers but I will give you the option if you want to but it's basically just first thing that comes to your mind and we can move on or not if you want to explain you can. You cool with that yeah is it one word answers or sentences no you can do sentence whatever it just comes to mind. Again you don't have to offer explanation but I'm allowing you to I'll play I'll play by the rules all right cool so rapid fire. So what is the most overrated AP calculus study strategy? Doing a million questions one thing parents overthink about their kids' math performance.

SPEAKER_02 28:21

That they think they're gonna get an A plus forever in math.

SPEAKER_01 28:24

One thing parents underthink about their underthink about their kids' math performance.

SPEAKER_02 28:28

I don't know if I know how to answer it with that underthinking thing but um they don't realize the importance of going in for extra help.

SPEAKER_01 28:38

Okay. If you could whisper one piece of advice to a parent of a ninth grader about preparing for AP math what would it be?

SPEAKER_02 28:46

It would be master every possible algebra skill the next two years.

SPEAKER_01 28:52

And then one thing AI will never replace in math education.

SPEAKER_02 28:56

I don't know if never I hope it never does but like the ability to like speak back it can like type back and you can like play it but like for me to like feel the frustration in your response and not just say like the answer to your question but also like be in it with you like so empathy? Sure. It tries to though that's an awesome question Evan I'm sorry you're stressed about that Evan I it it tries.

SPEAKER_01 29:28

Once Elon Musk gets ahead of this I'm sure yeah probably build something with empathy so okay.

SPEAKER_02 29:33

Evan where can um you again for being on the the podcast the uh can people find you if they want to learn more about what you do what you offer how you serve people and kids yeah um probably just mathmade simple tutoring dot com um I am a teacher not a web developer so sometimes they're like there wasn't much on the website and I'm like do you want me to help you do you want me to help your kid or my website like I'm gonna help the kids so far so true.

SPEAKER_01 30:04

This episode is brought to you by supported tutoring where we don't just help students get better grades we help them become critical thinkers whether it's mastering AP exams maximizing college applications or building lifelong learning habits our expert tutors focus on critical thinking confidence and real growth head to supportedtutoring.com to find the support your student deserves you have a Facebook group too right yeah um college admission secrets for parents of STEM kids there is a lot of good people in there um I really try to make sure it's teachers or uh legitimate counselors not just people charging 20k packages to promise you'll get into Harvard and then you don't even get into your state school or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 30:55

So um a lot of good people in there offering some pretty solid advice.

SPEAKER_01 31:01

That's awesome. And you just did you start that uh or after you were tutoring um probably like while like in the beginning. Oh yeah yeah um yeah we're coming to a point where we're like growing pretty fast and we get probably I just get that once a week now just by the lead volume and like hey I was looking at some of you I was trying to find reviews on your website like it's just nothing much. I'm like hey when I started this business I literally formed a website I took like two months on Squarespace build a beautiful website guess how much business I got nothing like for an entire year.

SPEAKER_02 31:37

And then I started a Facebook group and then I started getting it's like oh I don't know how to tell you like I'm not gonna I'm like I have something we run ads it works like I don't like I don't something that needs to be done but yeah I hear you on the web development It looks pretty but if you want students um a nice website doesn't just magically give you students so I yes first I that's what I thought business was.

SPEAKER_01 32:02

You just have a website and people just they come and they just give you money and that's how it works. Yeah cool.

SPEAKER_02 32:07

Well um family thank you for being here last thoughts on uh AP calc as we are enter the the busy season for both of us in AP exam season yeah I think I mean any kid you not every teacher is awesome but most teachers are awesome and would love to help you as much as you're willing to do. So before you rush to a tutor to fix all your problems reach out to your teacher they probably want to help you and they probably want to see you be successful.

SPEAKER_00 32:39

So here we go. Cool Evan thank you so much and uh we'll see you next time.

SPEAKER_01 32:44

Yeah thanks Joe appreciate you thanks for joining us on the supported learning podcast if today's conversation inspired you challenged you or sparked a new perspective be sure to subscribe and share with a fellow change maker. We'll be back soon with more voices more insight and more ways to elevate the future of learning together. Until then keep learning and keep pushing the conversation forward