SupportED Learning Podcast
On a mission to speak with global education experts on how we can revolutionize the education system, especially in the dawn of AI.
SupportED Learning Podcast
Episode 17 – Standing Out in Competitive College Admissions | Patrick Choi, CEO of KYO Standard
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In this episode of the SupportED Learning Podcast, Dr. Joe Sebestyen sits down with Patrick Choi, Founder and CEO of KYO Standard, a San Diego-based test preparation company, to explore why many high-achieving students still fail to stand out in competitive college admissions. Patrick explains how lack of focus, weak positioning, and unclear direction can limit even the strongest applicants.
Dr. Joe Sebestyen and Patrick Choi discuss common pitfalls, admissions strategy, extracurricular positioning, and the role of personal storytelling in shaping a compelling application. The conversation focuses on practical ways students can differentiate themselves beyond grades and test scores.
This episode is ideal for students and families looking to strengthen their college applications, understand what top schools prioritize, and gain a clearer edge in the admissions process.
Thanks for tuning in to the SupportED Learning Podcast with Dr. Joe Sebestyen. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe for more insights on education, critical thinking, and AI integration in learning. Visit our website at supportedtutoring.com
Remember to share this podcast with fellow parents and educators who are passionate about reimagining education for tomorrow's world. Until next time, keep supporting learning!
You're listening to the Support Ed Learning Podcast, where we challenge the status quo of education and reimagine what learning should be. I'm Dr. Joe Sebastian, and in every episode we dive into critical thinking, Bloom's Taxonomy, educational innovation, and how AI is shaping the future of learning. Whether you're a teacher, parent, policymaker, or lifelong learner, you're in the right place to rethink, reshape, and revive education. Hey there, everyone. Welcome back to the Supported Learning Podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Joe. Today we are joined by, I guess, somewhat famous because we both recognize each other from each other's ads, but Mr. Patrick Choi, welcome to the podcast. How are you, sir?
SPEAKER_00Hello. Yeah, thanks for having me, Dr. Joe.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. Thanks for coming on. And uh, you've built, is it Kyo standard? Is that what you're doing?
SPEAKER_00The word is kill. So yeah, the word kill is uh or the character kill in Chinese, Korean, and Japanese uh means education.
SPEAKER_02So okay, very cool. Yes. I gotcha. So uh basically education standard, right? Around the idea that test prep should be strategic, which we love to hear, not just repetitive. Right. Um, what does that actually look like in practice?
SPEAKER_00So, I mean, in practice, you know, it comes down to coming up with a way that a student can answer a question consistently. Right. Right. So it's you know, having a uh kind of a way to do it as opposed to when you're doing a ton of practice questions, it's just repetition. Sometimes you get it right, sometimes you get it wrong. There's no nothing for you to change in order to do better. The way that most students do the uh do questions is they'll do a question, they get the wrong answer, they look at the right answer, they read it, and they say, Oh, that makes so much sense. And then they move on to the next question. Where at you know at that point there's nothing being fixed, right? It's just you you recognize that the right answer is the right answer, right? But there's nothing else kind of going on. So, you know, it's making sure that you you have a way to approach every question so that if something doesn't work, so if you're not getting the question right, there's a way to go back and fix what you're doing wrong, right? So then you can make an adjustment of some sort.
SPEAKER_02So just to give everyone the proper introduction, you are an SAT expert. You just told me you've been doing this since 1999. Tell me the journey and how you got started, I assume as a tutor, but basically built a brand and a company now supporting hundreds, if not thousands, of kids in SAT and ACT prep.
SPEAKER_00Well, so I mean, it started because uh, you know, my one of my fraternity brothers, he was teaching for the Princeton Review, and he was just like, Hey, you did really well on the SATs. Do you want to tutor for the SAT for the Princeton Review? You know, it was 15 bucks an hour. Back then, I think the minimum wage was I think five dollars an hour. So I was like, So I started doing that, and then you know, I am I think I mentioned to you that I was really bad at it in the beginning. I'm not afraid to admit that. So uh, but I didn't like the fact that I was bad at something. So after I taught my first class, you know, I just got my friends, you know, grabbed people off the street and just said, hey, come in and sit down. I'm gonna teach you some SAT stuff. Ask me any questions that you might have. And the more I started to do that, the more confident I got with that. And then after I, you know, after graduation, I started working full-time, but I was always tutoring on the sides, on the side just because I couldn't uh I couldn't shake it. And then I so I quit my full-time job, uh, became the uh director of operations for the Princeton Review. Uh, and then they after a year and a half of that, they moved me out to South Korea, where I ran uh their Korea, China, and Japan office uh for a couple of years. And then I grabbed, I I left that and went back to the US for grad school. Uh, but by then I'd become like their premier tutor and their master trainer. So I was training tutors, I was taking on, you know, kind of like the high profile uh clients and stuff. You know, after doing that, after doing that for about another 10 years, you know, I started to realize that I no longer really needed the Princeton Review. Um, you know, I was bringing in my own students, I was using my own material, you know, everything else. Uh and so I was like, you know what? I'm just gonna leave and start my own thing. Uh and so I I did that in, I think it was in 2016. Uh is when I started my own company. And you know, it was just me and a we works with the with two or three tutors, you know, just kind of tutoring kids. And then up until the pandemic, we actually had a full building in in San Diego. You know, we were working with like uh, I think 300 students at that time. Um, and and things were going pretty well until the pandemic hit, and then all the schools made the test optional. So all the parents were like, hey, we're not gonna take the test. Right.
SPEAKER_02So well, yeah, because like mine kind of inside I kind of like came out of the panel. I started tutoring again. I was I was actually in-person tutor when I was teaching in Virginia, and then I stopped for a little bit when I moved back to PA and I um I went back to virtual tutoring during the pandemic and kind of the same thing, like broke away, did my own thing, but really had no business for a while until we kind of mech down to APs and through a Facebook group. But it's interesting you bring up that score optional because you know I've had a couple of college coaches, a friend of mine, like explain it really well, but that must have been after COVID, must have been a big windfall to you, knowing that all the common data sets, the kids who did submit their scores when it was score optional, skewed the me skewed the average scores to higher. So now like a 1500 is absolutely required, and you're the 1500 guy, right?
SPEAKER_00Well, yeah, it was kind of funny because I was looking at some schools and I'm like, that's their average SAT score since when? I think that's kind of uh so yeah, it's it did uh it did kind of skew the scores. And I think the scores are all gonna kind of settle down a little bit more uh this year and next in the next couple of years, uh just because now they're making it uh you know required.
SPEAKER_02So back to back to mandatory. Okay. So I guess what was was there like a specific student or a moment when you realize like deep conceptual understanding beats rote memorization and like the skills over the the process of what what you do?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, I think so I still tutor, you know, one or two students, uh really, you know, yeah, just because I feel you know, as the test changes as a student kind of you know, the student body changes, I need to to be there because you know that my my best ideas come to me when I'm tutoring, just because I would say, like, oh wow, you're really struggling with this. How can I help you understand that better? And then, and then so so tutoring is kind of you know, it's it's in my blood. I I just can't get away from it. Um, but you know, just even you know, ran, you know, recently, you know, I had a student who was just who after about after about five sessions, he was like, wait, so I know everything. And I was like, Yes. He's like, I just need to do things differently, right? And I'm like, yes. He's like, so it's not that I need to learn stuff, I just need to do things. And I was like, that's that's it. You just need to change the way that you approach the question. And I was like, that's that's all it is, and it's not a big change, it's just not uh uh it's not something that you're used to doing. And I, you know, when when he said that, I was just like, Can I get this on camera somewhere? You know, so I can uh show this to other kids. But yeah, that's you know, like every time I I tutor a student, it comes down to after a while, I'm you know, I'm like, you know, like when I talk to them, I say, okay, so when you when you do a reading question, uh after you read the passage, do you write down what you think the right answer is gonna look like? And they say, kind of. I'm like, do you, you know, when you look at the answer choices, are you looking for the right answer or are you looking for what makes it wrong? Uh and they'll say the right answer or things of that sort. So when I ask questions and then I I know what their answers are gonna be, people are like, How do you know these answers? And I'm like, I know them because you're doing everything that everybody else does, right? Looking for the right answer is not the best move because your brain starts to make the wrong answers right.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00Right. Whereas, you know, like if you like it's you know, look for a pink shirt in a room, everything, everything's gonna look very pink, right? So uh, you know, so if you're looking for what makes the answer choice wrong, then it turns everything into a very critical way of looking at something. And so, you know, yeah, just all these things kind of help me point me towards the just doing the questions over and over again. It works for some, but not not for the most, you know, for the majority of the students out there.
SPEAKER_02So that's some like Tony Robin stuff right there. Because uh I did a little bit of SAT tutoring. I I did so many different odd jobs when I was a teacher. And so um when I was in Virginia, I taught, I did, I got hooked up with this Korean school in the summer, and it was like, Can you tutor the SAT? I'm like, Yeah, I can absolutely how hard can it be? And I was like, they like what do they want to do? They just want to do practice problems. I'm like, this that's it, and just they just time them and just give them the feedback on the answers. I'm like, okay, but it was like drilling kill. That's like that's the program they wanted to run, and I'm just like, This, this, this is a horrible way to spend a summer as a kid. This seems like absolute torture, yeah. So it doesn't sound like you do that, but it did. But I I have had I guess I've had I also chased the money in terms of the proctoring, because you as a teacher, you could proctor the essays like 125 bucks an hour. I'm like, I can get all my grading done on the Saturday. This is fantastic, you know. Not 100, it was how much it was like 250 for the Saturday, whatever. It was it was back then, it was nice, like it was a nice little chunk of change. But you know, yeah, there was like seven sections and then they moved to three sections, and they did so many different changes. They took the writing out, they put the writing back in, things like that. But now it's fully digital.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_02And it's an adaptive test. How has that changed the game for the strategies kids need and how it's changed your approach to test prep?
SPEAKER_00Well, so it changes, uh, it changes, but it also doesn't change. So one thing to kind of keep in mind is that the the score is still pretty it's you can still predict the score. So what I mean by that is that if you get all the easy and the medium questions right, then you're generally going to be about a 600 plus uh on the uh on the actual test, uh, the regardless of like the the test adapting to the harder module and and everything else. But as far as like prepping for the ex uh for the test, you know, we we try to we try to transfer paper and pencil to online. So for for example, in the beginning, we have a lot of our students do a lot of their work on on you know on a PDF, you know, showing all their work, writing down their predictions, seeing where we cross off the uh word or phrase that makes sense wrong. And then as they start to get better at that, then we start to transfer them over to the digital version to say, okay, now either take notes or just kind of keep it in your head, right? Like your prediction is this, and so on and so forth. So we we are able to do that. The other kind of weird thing is so I, for example, I took the uh the June SAT and uh last year, me and one of my tutors, and I remember during the math section, I was like, wow, there are things I haven't seen before on the street. Wait, like you like legit took it like as a student? Yeah. As a student, yeah. Okay, I've taken these, I think 17 times. I've taken 15 times now. Um, but you know, I remember it sitting there going, This is not, I've never, we don't teach this. We gotta start teaching vertex for you know, like uh, you know, I'm sorry, vectors and uh and things like that. And uh and my when I got out of the class, when I got out of the test, I talked to my tutor and he was like, Oh, that was an easy math section. I was like, Okay, well, then I'll I'm I'm obviously rusty. And then we both got our scores and we got the exact same math score. And I was like, that's not fair. I feel like I worked harder for my math score than you did. Right. So you know, it's it's uh it I think the SATs are still trying to figure things out too, as far as question types and level difficulties and things like that.
SPEAKER_02So you seem like you're an early adopter of social media, YouTube to teach things, Instagram is a primary teaching tool. Obviously, your ads are on social media. How do you see that in terms of content creation um reshaping how students actually learn outside of school?
SPEAKER_00Well, I mean, I think it's you know, it's shorter attention span, right? Social media kind of feeds to that shorter attention span. And then I also think that kids, the students nowadays, they're very good at taking a little bit and taking it a long way with that. Right. So I've seen students that, you know, you teach them one thing on a um on a post, and then for the next they try it and they really do apply it. And they they and then they start asking me questions on on my Instagram page. And I'm like, hey, let's just hop on a call real quick and let me walk them through some stuff. But you know, like it's it's it's interesting because now these kids these students are being exposed to things that they would have had to pay for a course to do, or yeah, uh whatever, right? Where but now it's I think it's it's there's more exposure to all of that. Um, but you know, of course, nothing kind of trumps the the consistent work that you have to put into that.
SPEAKER_02So obviously AI has uh brought a whole new meaning to change in education, and their tools are popping up everywhere. Um there's there's a lot of um SAT aligned AI apps as well, but what can a human strategist like you do for the out that the algorithm can't? Right.
SPEAKER_00Well, I think the the algorithm, you know, like AI is is a great tool by all means. And I think uh, you know, for example, uh there's a company called ACELE, they they say that they're that they give you different levels of difficulty and things of that sort. You know, and I think conceptually it's a great idea because if your student is bad with vertex formula or quadratic formulas, for example, then you can start off with an easy problem and increase the level of difficulty uh and things like that. But I also think that as a human should be there to be able to say, hey, let's try this, because you're trying to affect the behavior of how a student approaches a question. So, for example, one of our students, uh, you know, he just couldn't predict the he just never predicted the answer before he looked at the answer choices. So, you know, my tutors and I came up with the idea of just putting post-it notes over all the answer choices. So then he has to write his prediction onto the post-it note and then peel it off and then compare the notes with his prediction to the answer choices. So I think you know, it's a great tool, but ultimately you do need somebody there to oversee oversee the progress and make sure that these adjustments are being made uh when they're doing them.
SPEAKER_02So I guess families can get overwhelmed. I'm sure you see a lot of uh you see a lot of maybe um sophomores, but probably more juniors than anything, get in that panic as uh college app season is right around the corner, especially March, right? Yeah, the juniors are taking the SAT in March, or they're I don't know why. Why does College Board offer the SAT in May a day before the AP exams? I don't I listen, we offer SAT support, but we're not offering anything in May. I I do not support you taking the SA. So sorry, just I don't support you taking the SAT.
SPEAKER_00I always tell kids, tell students and parents that you're gone in May. I don't expect to see you until at least the second week when all the APs are done.
SPEAKER_02Um I don't know why they insist on having that exam that time, but um you know, parents get overwhelmed by the process. I'm sure again, we share a lot of probably the same, the same parents, the potential clients, same students, um, in in our shared at shared adventures of business. And so there's just a lot of noise out there. You're in California, there's tons of college prep companies out there. Um how does a parent who's overwhelmed, um, you know, with all the different there's there's free resources, there's AI tools. What's the like what's honest filter? How do you sort out what's noise and what's actually worthwhile?
SPEAKER_00Well, so I think that a lot of people, especially in like the online space, they're always trying to come up with a gimmick to sink you in, right? So they'll say, like, oh, you take a test and we can tell you exactly what 14 spots, 14 topics we need to go over. And you know, it's for something like that. Well, if you take another test, those 14 things might shift to another 14 thing, right? And so you know, I think it's one, it's who do you trust working with, who do you feel comfortable with? Um, but then also that there has to be a system uh that the that the person's trying to work on, right? Because it otherwise you kind of run into the uh the mistake of having a tutor just giving you a bunch of drills, right? Drill them and drill them, or even just teachers teaching you how to do problems that you got wrong, right? In which case that that doesn't necessarily help the student, it just helps them with that particular question, but it doesn't help them answer that question type, for example, right? So, you know, it's there's I think that at the end of the day, you have to find a system that you that makes sense to you, right? That makes sense to your student. Oh, I think my kid can do this and things of that sort, right? Um, yeah, I think that that's ultimately the big, big, biggest thing when it comes to picking a test prep company to work with.
SPEAKER_02So you focus on score optimization and like what are the key variables that determine whether a student score can jump 50 points to 200 points.
SPEAKER_00Oh, that's uh that comes down to personality. I think there's when when I uh when I used to do all the onboarding, I would tell the students, hey, we're gonna teach you some things, and in your mind you're gonna say this is silly. In your mind, you're gonna say this isn't gonna work. Um, but you have to try them because they do work, right? And so a lot of students when I tell them to to when we teach them how to read a certain uh a certain way, the they're they'll tell they'll tell us, I've been reading all my life. I I know how to read. No, you read with your eyes, but you don't read with your brain. And we're trying to teach you how to read with your brain. And so the students who kind of embrace that, um, they generally start to do better. The students who fight that are always looking for a way to do something. Like, you know, they'll say, Hey, isn't the main idea always the last sentence? I'm like, it's not always the last sentence. That's why you have to do you have to read like this, right? Yeah, and so I think the the attitude, and it's also important to know to remember that we're not necessarily teaching the students anything new, we're reminding them of a lot of things that they forgot. So a lot of times when we do, for example, like uh you know linear equations with one variable, a lot of students will say, Yeah, I'm good with that. And I'm like, no, no, when you're seeing it, your brain is like, yeah, I've done this before, I'm okay. But when you look at the test scores, you're getting a lot of those questions wrong. But then where is that disconnect happening? That's what you have to do, right? So, you know, I think it's it comes down to a lot of it's just the attitude.
SPEAKER_02So, why can't families just grab a Princeton review book or a Kaplan review book or a standard go just go to a standard tutoring center? What is the structural gap that you're solving and how um in how the test prep industry operates? How what are you doing that is fundamentally different that you get the results that you guys get consistently?
SPEAKER_00So we we address the problem from three different stages. So we focus on content first, uh then strategy, and then the pacing. So um when a student comes in with a very low score, so something below 1200, for example, that's not very low, but anything below 1200, uh, we usually put them into our foundation program where they learn all the basic stuff, right? Learning how to read, the grammar, the basic math, algebra, things of that sort. And then the goal for that is to get through all the uh the easy easy questions uh pretty comfortably. And then by the time they do that, they're usually in the high 1100s. And then we put them into from there, we put them into our strategy course where we where we go over uh pretty much a process to answer every question. Right. So and that process can change based on the student and and what the tutor thinks that the student needs and things of that sort. But the the point of that, the the strategy portion is to increase your accuracy. So every question that you answer, know you got that one right. Um, and and then timing doesn't matter at that point because we're we're trying to create a uh a system that that is accurate. Now, once you've reached your accuracy, an accuracy that you're comfortable with, so like let's say nine out of every 10 reading questions you get right, then we shift you over to the Ivy program where now it's just pacing. We're trying to finish that section with that level of accuracy until you get to the school. Uh, and so you know those are the the kind of the big fundamental differences. Most uh most other companies that uh I've worked with or classes that I've taken, they usually just have one program, one course. And just that's that's kind of it. Um, the other thing is that our program, we you can do a group class every week, or you can do a recorded last lesson if you want. But in addition to that, you always get a one-hour one-on-one tutoring session each week. And the purpose of that is to make sure that you're okay with the homework, that you're doing the homework, and any questions that come up or any adjustments that need to be made, our tutors can help you make that adjustment. But ultimately, it also just comes down to the student being exposed to the same thing multiple times, right? Right? Because it's you know, they learn it in class, and then how much do you really learn in class? And then they, you know, then they you know go off and do something and they do it on their own. Whereas when they meet with their tutor, the tutor kind of reins them back in and says, hey, this is how you're supposed to do it, remember? And then we can kind of fix that from there.
SPEAKER_02So what do you find is uh a big the biggest myth in the test prep industry right now, or something trendy that's that's a good marketing ploy, but is actually horrible for parents and students?
SPEAKER_00Well, I think the biggest one is a lot of people feel like they need to work on their weakness. So, like, for example, if you're scoring a 700 on math and a 640 on the reading, most people's first instinct is I need to work on my reading. My instinct is let's get that 700 to an 800, right? Or as close to that 800 as possible because the the odds of you increasing over 100 points in the reading section in a short period of time, it's not, you know, it could happen, but it also could not happen. Whereas if you're scoring a 700 in the math, getting to a 780, 790 is not as hard now because we do know you're probably just getting the last two questions wrong, the hardest questions wrong. We can kind of shift our focus into breaking down harder questions, and so if they can get like a 780 or 790 and maybe and 710 or 720 on the reading, you're breaking the 1500 right there, right? So it's it's kind of it's a little bit different. Um, you know, but I think that that's that's one of the biggest things is that they always want to focus on the things that they're bad at as opposed to let's take a look at what you're good at and see if that can also help, right?
SPEAKER_02So, you know, we're like you said, we're ending the era of test optional, um, but that's still lingering, um, is out there. And like, I mean, we work with some college admission students, and I'm like, listen, there's a lot of there's a lot of bad information out there. There's a lot, and competition is fierce, obviously. But I'm like, you're not getting anywhere unless you have the foundations. And the foundations academically are a good GPA, 3.7 unweighted GPA, a good SAT or ACT score, and we're taught depending on what school, it could be 1400, could be 1500, and good AP exams. If you don't have that, you don't have to spend six thousand dollars on a passion project because that your foundation is. Wrong. So um competition sphere, so they ever, what is a real story families need to hear about whether testing still matters for either of our exams?
SPEAKER_00Well, so I think testing still matters because at the end of the day, you're giving colleges more data points for because you know, like you say, Oh, I have a good GPA, that's great, but how do we verify that, right? And uh and things of that sort. So I think at the end of the day, you know, I had uh you know, I can tell you stories of like parents who just who said, Oh, your kid doesn't need to do SATs because he's applying test optional, has good grades and everything else. Uh, this was especially during the COVID time, uh, and they were applying to Northeastern, and they're they thought they were shoeing, and they just got rejected. Whereas like another student subgrades, uh worse grades than this uh than the other student, uh almost similar GPA, they submitted an SAT score, I think it was like 1380 or something, and he got accepted into Northeastern at that time. Now I think Northeastern their their average SAT score is like 1490 or something like that. Probably, yeah. Northeastern's kind of like a syndrome.
SPEAKER_02Because all his kids weren't submitting his scores, they're just skewed upwards.
SPEAKER_00Yep. Uh, but but you know, they at that point, it's it's I know that it's a tedious thing. I know that it's an extra stress that you don't necessarily need in your life, but at the end of the day, the more information you give to colleges, the better the decision that they can make.
unknownRight?
SPEAKER_02Well, and you got yeah, you got to work for Prince to Review, so you got to see it from like, you know, kind of like the king of who does the test prep process. But it's like I don't understand where I do and I don't. I work inside of school, so I see it. Of we're we're great. It's like paper chasing grades, right? So we're so we're so scared. Like I get a lot of kids usually around I'm starting to it's way becoming more geared towards the AP exam. March is like our busiest season, busiest month usually for enrollments, but I would say probably November to about February is when you get kids reacting to a low grade in the class. And so like it's so hard because they're like, my kid has a B. Like, okay. And it's like, well, they're they're GPA, like they're they're they're it's terrible. I don't know what's wrong. Well, they have a B in a college-level class, they're in ninth grade, so like, okay. But it does, I mean, like, it's it's hard because the system is telling you the grades are the only thing that matters, and I'm telling you the grade honestly means nothing to me. It's really what you can do, it's skills-wise. So, um, but at the same token of like, I have a lot of like they don't prioritize the AP exam and they prioritize the grade saving of them, like the AP exam is it's better to have a lower grade in the class and do better on the exam than to really like have a straight A but bomb the exam. So the SAT, obviously, there's not a class. It is right, it's literally your taking the SAT, it's measuring how well you take the SAT in terms of math and reading, right? So um, you know, my kid has good grades. I'm sure you hear that a lot. My kid's a bright student. What is like that belief-breaking system for families who maybe aren't converted to your methods and like walk me through a success story where you had to have that transformation happen and they they embrace what you taught.
SPEAKER_00Well, so I think a good chunk of our students they come in with, you know, my kid has a 4.8 GPA or or something to that effect. And you know, I uh we we do our best to explain to them that at the end of the day, a grade in school is very different from doing well on one exam on one Saturday at 9 a.m. and just kind of putting it all out there, right? And I think the reason why the test is it stays around for so long is because uh unlike school, where you if you don't do well on the test, you you know, the teacher can drop the lowest grade, or you can do extra credit, or you can do extra uh your grade is a culmination of of a semester's long work. Whereas on the SATs, it's it's just it all comes down to one day. And I also think that the the bigger the other difference is that students who are who are who get good grades um are very resent or resistant to to trying different things to get better to do to do better on the SATs. And so I think it it all kind of comes down to at the end of the day, the the idea that you need to realize that you're doing you have to do something different in order to do well on the SATs. Otherwise, things are not going to are not going to change. And it's it's unfair and everything else, but you know, I had one student, uh, he was trying to get in, he was in, he's in New York City, uh, and he's trying to get into I think Binghamton. Uh, and his, you know, he he's he had this very attitude of like, I have a 4.3, I'm good, you know, like I don't really need to take the test, uh, or I don't really need to study for the test. And, you know, and and I after a while I told his mom, I was like, listen, we he's you know, it's the December of his junior year. Let's take a couple of months off. Let's take a few months, just kind of let him grow up a little bit, let him see his friends taking the test, doing better, let him see all the seniors getting accepted or rejected, and let's kind of make that, you know, make hopefully make this a little bit more solid for him. And when he came back to us in uh in March, he was just ready to go because he was like, Wow, a lot of my friends who I thought were gonna get into these schools got rejected from these schools. And you know, they they you know, like at the end of the day, it all came, I think it all came down to the SAT. So you know, they that's when he started to turn things around and was just like, I need to change this, I need to do things differently, and so on. And so that you know, that that that's kind of the end result of that.
SPEAKER_02So, what is the greatest like RR story you have of a family who invested in that?
SPEAKER_00And I I mean, you know, just uh a couple like two years ago, I had uh uh one of our students, she um texted me, she's like, Oh, I got you know, I I got a $70,000 a year scholarship. Uh I forgot which school, I can't remember. It it wasn't like a great, it wasn't a top 25, but it was pretty it was pretty well known. And uh I remember think and the dad called me and he was like, Hey, we got this scholarship. And I was like, So you owe me $280,000. And he was like, Oh no, you know, like he was like, That's a he's like, Yeah, no. I'm like, Yeah, of course not, but like he was like that, you know, that uh scholarship was pretty much based on her GPA and her SAT screen. Right. Right. That's it. Like I I helped with half, and you know, I'm glad we can do it, right? So the end of the day, like yeah, the return is just incredible when it comes to to something like this.
SPEAKER_02So I I think it's so I'm I'm I don't know if you still get on like acquisition calls and talking, uh sure you have a teen that takes care of it too, but there's some you know investing resistance to it too. It's just like because we we have an ad that's like we had a student spend 3k on our core program and got $240,000 in scholarships across multiple schools, and that's like right. So it's like, but they don't it's like I I don't know why some fans like don't understand the you're gonna pay one way or the other, but there are some strategies to do it, and kind of stacking these things you can significantly bring down the cost, but that's 70,000, that's amazing. So what did you do before you got into test prep?
SPEAKER_00Uh before, I mean, I was just a college student. Uh and before that, I was uh worked for Starbucks as a as a manager, as a district manager in New York. Okay. Uh and so I did that. So I was in operations a lot, um, just in retail. Um, but then I, you know, like I said, I always kept tutoring on the side. Um by the time I had graduated, I was tutoring for the LSATs, the MCATs, GMATs, GREs, SATs. Oh wow.
SPEAKER_02You do them all.
SPEAKER_00So, you know, it was uh I was that guy running around New York City tutoring everything, like just okay, just kind of as many kids as I can at that point.
SPEAKER_02So you basically kind of niche down in the age of digital marketing and just had people focus on the SAT and ACT.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you know, it's uh it's the part that I'm the most passionate about. Um like my team will tell you that I'm always coming up with different things to try. Um, just because I see a problem, like let's you know, like get this, so let's try to fix that. And then you know, there's a barrier for here, let's fix that. And so we we're always kind of coming up with different ways of of of improving the program and helping the students.
SPEAKER_02So what um do you give families that come and say, hey, we want to take both the SAT and ACT for our kids? Like, what is your advice for that? Because I get I get some of those too. Like, we think we should take it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, I I had one kid, she got into a uh a BSMD program, but she she got a 36 on the ACT with us, and then the mom's like, Great, now I want a 1600. And I'm like, guys, that's what do you want, lightning to strike twice? So I was like, sure. Um we worked with them until uh and she eventually didn't get it. But ultimately, my general answer is always that you know, pick one, pick one and kind of go on in. And I think a lot of uh parents, you know, the when you make when you have the kids, the students take an SAT and an ACT, their general idea is, oh, whichever they score the highest in is the one that we're gonna go with, which I I definitely disagree with. I say whichever the one the student felt the most comfortable with is the one that we're gonna go with. Mostly because I think the SATs, yeah, after a while, you know, it's got such a huge presence that it it just has a very bad vibe to it. Whereas if you say, Oh, it's like, oh, fresh breath of fresh air, I'm trying something different, new question types, new you know, whatever, it can make the world of difference to a to a student. Do you sorry?
SPEAKER_02Sorry, I mean I I was gonna say, do you do you change that answer depending on what schools they're aiming for?
SPEAKER_00No, I it's so the school, you know, my understanding is all the schools accept the SAT and the ACT equally. Uh, and so it's you know, at the end of the day, I think that it's whichever one they're gonna get the highest score in. Okay. Okay.
SPEAKER_02And um obviously like AI has been super disruptive um to the industry. How are you using AI? How are you protecting against AI? Like what are what are you doing just business-wise, education-wise, to uh to adapt to the changing world that we're in right now?
SPEAKER_00Well, so we're we're actually um about to launch our AI homework helper. Okay. Um and so one of the the one of the problems with with the way that students do work is that if you tell them to do X, Y, and Z, they go home, they're not gonna do X, Y, and Z. They're they're gonna try it maybe once, then they fall back to their old habits of just doing it the way that they're used to doing it. And so our AI homework helper is going to kind of push them through the process, right? First step, you know, paraphrase the sentence, second step, predict the answer. And if the prediction is wrong, then it makes them go back and say, okay, let's you know work on the paraphrasing part. What does it say? What does it say? And then kind of just them throughout the whole process so that they are doing things a certain way. Um, you know, because ultimately that's the thing that that matters. That's the biggest difference. Uh so I think that you know that things like that are gonna help us with the uh with the um but as far as you know kind of over tutoring, I I don't know if I trust it. You know, like it's it's yeah, you have to kind of understand this response, facial ticks, you know, things there's just you know a lot of things that you kind of have to to see.
SPEAKER_02So I didn't we really didn't get into like your coaching program and how it's structured, but like I still at the end of the day, you still need a one-on-one person. Like, I just think it's I can't break away from that. Like, there is human aspect that you need that person overseeing it. So I don't know if that'll ever change, but um, Patrick, we're gonna come to the point where we have rapid fire. So um basically just ask you questions and whatever comes to your mind answers, no justification needed unless you want to. Okay. Sound good. You ready? Yeah, that's good. All right, so Patrick, what's the most overrated piece of test prep advice?
SPEAKER_00Uh take the blue book test. So in real ones. So yeah.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Um, one thing parents overthink about the SAT or ACT.
SPEAKER_00Uh, that there's a difference between a 1540 and a 1550, for example. So, you know, like the the differences are not as big as you think they are.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_00You know, as at a certain point, you're you're good.
SPEAKER_02So one thing to um dangerously underthink.
SPEAKER_00Um, the fact that their kid does well in school is good enough that they'll do well on the SATs.
SPEAKER_02So favorite resource you hand a student starting prep tomorrow.
SPEAKER_00Favorite resource? Oh gosh. The New York Times. I I strongly believe reading makes the world of difference. So just read, read, read, read, read. You know, like the more you read, the better you that you do on the exit these exams.
SPEAKER_02One thing you'd whisper to a parent of a ninth grade student about a testing strategy to get them ready for their 11th grade year.
SPEAKER_00Uh have them learn to read with their eyes and not with their read with their brain and not with their eyes. Ooh, okay.
SPEAKER_02And one thing AI will never replace in test preparation.
SPEAKER_00A good tutor. Okay. Yeah. Even with Elon and Skynet. You know, you can try, but you know, I think they're it's just you know, the connection makes all the difference. You know, like I have our tutors like this is in school, but you don't have to be so rigid. Right with this, right? Because you're you're getting them to do extra work, right? So you have to be able to be relatable to them, right? Have that relationship, sure. Yeah, because it's not like they're gonna get a bad grade or you know, they're gonna go on a permanent record or anything like that. You have to convince them to do things. So you're each tutor is a salesperson, essentially.
SPEAKER_02This episode is brought to you by supported tutoring, where we don't just help students get better grades, we help them become critical thinkers. Whether it's mastering AP exams, maximizing college applications, or building lifelong learning habits, our expert tutors focused on critical thinking, confidence, and real growth. Head to supportedtutoring.com to find the support your student deserves. Okay, well, um, Patrick, thank you so much for coming on, spent a little bit of time. I know it's you're like literally two and a half weeks away from your big your big test in March for the spring one. Um yeah, like you know, if parents are interested in learning more about your programs and your offering, where can they find information? Like what you like what where can they find you? What can what can you help?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so just go to killstandard, kyo, and then the word standard.com and then just click on the link to uh to connect with us and then we'll we'll we'll start messaging back and forth from there.
SPEAKER_02Awesome, awesome. And then your socials will we'll include as well on this episode, too. So all right. So what's uh what is the what's the next what's the next move for your company in terms of like how where where are you going now? Are you just you keep you've done it so long, right? So like where where are you where's next steps?
SPEAKER_00So we're we're actually uh launching a reading program next week. Okay. Uh so it's a program for middle school and high school students. Okay. Where we we we go over kind of like the right, like Charlotte's Webb, you know, Lawrence, and you know, we're gonna we're our the process is gonna be read, debate, uh discuss, debate, and then write. And so we're we're training, we're gonna try to work on the students on you know, reading things a little bit more carefully, being able to analyze things, and also ultimately just write about it. Because in our opinion, you know, by the time a junior comes to us, if their reading is bad, it's hard. It's just a lot of work. And I honestly believe that if you if you get the reading part down, then 80%, 60%, somewhere around there. Sure. Uh the test is kind of manageable at that point. And so we wanted to to provide support as early as we can to do that. So awesome.
SPEAKER_02Well, again, Patrick, thank you for your time. It was great meeting you. Good luck with everything.
SPEAKER_00And uh absolutely fine.
SPEAKER_02Good to find meet you too.
SPEAKER_00We'll see you next time. Thank you. All right, have a good one.
SPEAKER_02Thanks for joining us on the Supported Learning Podcast. If today's conversation inspired you, challenged you, or sparked a new perspective, be sure to subscribe and share with a fellow change maker. We'll be back soon with more voices, more insight, and more ways to elevate the future of learning together. Until then, keep learning and keep pushing the conversation forward.