Episode 26 - Why Schools Are Stuck in the 1900s | Eric Sheninger, Aspire Change CEO

In this episode of the SupportED Learning Podcast, Dr. Joe Sebestyen sits down with Eric Sheninger, digital leadership expert and founder of Aspire Change, to explain why most schools are still preparing students for a world that no longer exists. Eric shares how a student calling school "a jail" flipped him from tech skeptic to digital leadership advocate, and shaped a philosophy built on small shifts, evidence over hype, and chasing growth, not perfection.

Dr. Joe Sebestyen and Eric Sheninger discuss the shifts schools need to make, including the Seven Pillars of Digital Leadership, the Voice, Choice, Path, Pace, and Place framework for personalized learning, and the two questions every educator should ask before using any technology. Eric also explains why AI is the most overrated trend in EdTech, why handing students devices won't fix learning, and why pedagogy has to come before tools.

This episode is especially useful for school administrators leading change, teachers rethinking tech integration, and district leaders preparing students for a future that keeps shifting. Eric gives a clear, practical framework for leading change with evidence and helping students build the skills they actually need.

🔔 Subscribe for weekly conversations on academic strategy, college prep, and the future of student success.

📲 Connect with them
Website: ericsheninger.com/aspire-change-edu
ericsheninger.com
Instagram: @esheninger
Get your own book now: amazon/Eric-C.-Sheninger

📲 Learn more about us: supportedtutoring.com, @dr_joe_ap_exams 

Thanks for tuning in to the SupportED Learning Podcast with Dr. Joe Sebestyen. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe for more insights on education, critical thinking, and AI integration in learning. Visit our website at supportedtutoring.com

Remember to share this podcast with fellow parents and educators who are passionate about reimagining education for tomorrow's world. Until next time, keep supporting learning! 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

You're listening to the Support Ed Learning Podcast, where we challenge the status quo of education and reimagine what learning should be. I'm Dr. Joe Sebastian, and in every episode we dive into critical thinking, balloons taxonomy, educational innovation, and how AI is shaping the future of learning. Whether you're a teacher, parent, policymaker, or lifelong learner, you're in the right place to rethink, reshape, and revive education. Welcome back to the Supported Learning Podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Joe Sebastian. I'm joined by a special guest today, Eric Shenninger. Eric, welcome. How are you?

SPEAKER_00 0:39

Thanks for having me. All right. Where are you located, Eric? I am located in the Houston area. Oh, very nice. Is it uh beesome weather out there? It was 85 and no humidity yesterday, so can't complain.

SPEAKER_01 0:50

We're going through uh we're going through a bipolar thing here in Pittsburgh. We're gonna be 70 today, I think 20 on Tuesday. So No thank you. Um Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. So, Eric, thanks for joining us. Uh let's just kind of dive right in. So, just kind of tell us a little bit about your background and and your journey through education.

SPEAKER_00 1:09

Yeah, former teacher and principal, and uh I was the one that said I was never gonna go into education. And uh I had my aha moment when I was teaching graduate students in uh uh college when I was getting my master's. And uh came back as a teacher, became an administrator, and I was the one that said I'll never use social media, technology, bad, bad, bad. And I became a sort of evangelist for it uh almost uh 17 years ago when a student told me school was like a jail, as I chased him through the building because he broke that cell phone policy. And that moment, it kind of taught me to learn how to unlearn and relearn. And that's when I kind of opened my eyes and mind to how education had to work better for students than it did for us as adults. And even though we had guardrails in place to really introduce learning, we tried to make the culture more reflective of the world that our students needed to survive and thrive in. And uh, through the work of my amazing teachers who improved achievement, innovative practice, we became a global model. And people were visiting from all over the world to see what we were doing in New Jersey at the time. And I then was coerced to leave the principalship. And uh, I never wanted to be a consultant, and here I am now, uh 12 years later, after leaving the principalship, running my own consultancy to help organizations, districts, schools really look at how do we grow our practice in terms of teaching, learning, and leadership.

SPEAKER_01 2:37

So, okay, well, that's a really, really good summary. Let's kind of go into it a little bit deeper. So you so you you never wanted to be in education, which I can relate to in terms of I thought my senior year, I'm done. I'm never coming back to a school, but you decided to become a teacher. Where did you pursue that at?

SPEAKER_00 2:54

Uh I went back home from rural New Jersey, and yes, there are rural New Jerseys. Excuse the uh things about what what exit of the turnpike do you live on, or you know, who's your favorite Jersey Shore character? Uh very rural area. So I went to a school in uh actually on the other side of Pennsylvania where you're at, East Stroudsburg University, which is a little north of Eastern Pennsylvania, got my teacher credentials, and then went back to New Jersey, became a teacher, uh, to teach marine biology, which ironically that's what my degree was in. I was like, what am I gonna do with a marine biology degree? Well, here I am teaching marine biology. And, you know, was able to coach a couple sports, but then became an administrator in New Milford, New Jersey, which is about 10 minutes west of George Washington Bridge. And it really became probably the most instrumental catalyst to my growth being in a community that supported innovative change, but also wanted results. And from there, you know, we just again constantly took that lens to our practice. And even though we were the first school district in the state of New Jersey, go bring your own device many, many months ago, we improved achievement in the process. You know, everything we did was very strategic. It wasn't just about having students run around devices. It wasn't about, oh, let's chase this fad. Let's really think about what are the pedagogical shifts that are needed to ensure efficacy in our ideas. How will we show evidence of our change in practice to illustrate the result? How will we improve the way that we learn? And we really focused on doing one or two things extremely well instead of trying to do a whole bunch of things mediocre. So, you know, those experiences, you know, as a teacher and as an administrator, really I've tried to hold close to the best as I've left the, I guess, the day-to-day. But Joe, I'm in classrooms virtually every week in my one of my many roles as a coach. And I'm in there shoulder to shoulder with administrators, teachers. And you know, the key to change, which I've learned, is it's the small shifts to practice done consistently that we need to be focused on. And we don't want to get all wrapped into the hoopla of AI, technology, whatever the fat is. It's those small shifts to practice done consistently. And it's up to educators to determine what those shifts are needed to grow their practice.

SPEAKER_01 5:29

I think that's where we kind of fail as school organizations, is we so I used to joke as a teacher, and now as an administrator, I'm like, I think I'm just doing what I said I would resent. Like, where we come back from the summer break, and it's like, cool, what have the administrators cooked up as these big initiatives, right? These all these things we're gonna do, so grandiose. And um, I never found never necessarily sticking power, but it was just like, hey, we're gonna, it always comes across as this is what we're adding on your plate and not taking off. And it's not really done intentional by design of what is actually gonna move the needle, first for kids learning, but also actually help me become a better, more effective teacher. And I love how you say that small shift. So, like, kind of boil that down for me because um my longest tenure was in Fairfast County, four years. I still talk about it in a lot of my marketing about um teaching IB. And I had no idea what IB was when I got there. I teach IB history. Previously, there were three teachers who taught IB history of the Americas, and they just did whatever they wanted, except the one guy who's like, we got to teach writing. We have to consistently teach writing because that's what ultimately what they're assessed on. When I got there, I kind of like humbled myself. I'm like, I have no idea what I'm doing. I'm just gonna follow your lead. What we ended up building was a pretty well-paced out curriculum that mirrored each other. We were different teachers, but we followed the same process and we taught the same kind of system. So when we were able to start implementing small tests to change, we saw radical improvement and really, really good growth. So, how have you seen it on your end as an instructional leader? Because I have yet to necessarily seen it successfully implemented as a as a principal, but like how have you coached that?

SPEAKER_00 7:11

Yeah, you know, it's interesting, you know. I'm gonna try to tackle that from a variety of angles. You know, when I get teachers in a room, and they'll tell me, Eric, we know the why. We are pretty sick and tired of hearing the why. Getting up, yeah, these fluffy keynotes. We understand the why. We want to know how we can do it and what does it look like? And that's going to be different for individuals, schools, districts. You know, there's we're made to think that there's such a thing as a best practice. If there was a best practice, we'd all be doing it with a high degree of fidelity and getting amazing results. There are effective practices. Just like there's no one right way to learn, there's not one right way to move people towards needed change. And it really comes down to are we asking the right questions? Questions are more important than answers. And I think with what the things that I often will ask when I leave a classroom is how do you know students learned? Let's unpack that question. And usually I don't go beyond that question, but that question really will lead to okay, did I unpack the standard into a learning target or objective? And how am I measuring that at the end of a lesson to determine if it was effective? And, you know, the whole idea is this sense of self-efficacy. And I think I just actually wrote about a post on my blog about the importance of self-efficacy, is when we look in the mirror, who do we see? Do we see someone that's open to growth? Do we see someone that's open to change? Do we see someone that wants to work smarter, not harder? And I think when we start about how do you know students learned, then we could start unpacking questions like, well, where was the level of thinking? Maybe the teacher or the school needs to work on increasing depth of knowledge or just moving from knowledge recall to actually understanding and above. You know, how did we make learning relevant? You know, maybe the focus is if students are bored, if they're off task, if they are, you know, having behavioral issues, maybe it's because we're not making learning relevant. You know, when I look at, you know, kind of three core aspects of instruction, and I want to be very clear instruction is what the teacher does, learning is what the students do. So we put all of our eggs in the instructional basket, and that's sometimes where we need that shift is how do we move away from what we're doing as the instructor? But going back to instruction, reviewing prior learning, checking for understanding, closure. Typically, I will find one of those three strategies as an opportunity for growth. It's not new, but when we think about change, consistency and continuity, sure, the small shifts of practice are important. But if we're not consistent at the individual level and then school and district level, and if we don't build continuity, all of our efforts are kind of fruitless.

SPEAKER_01 10:07

Yeah, you're speaking my language because I we've made the shift recently to go towards there's a hybrid blend of a block schedule on a regular day. Um, and I'm a pretty big advocate of the block because I've seen it implemented really well in a previous district. I was in Fairfax County for four years in Virginia and um 90-minute classes, and I just I liked it because there was one universal time for advisory where kids could come and get support and honestly did some of my best one-on-one teaching there. But I I say time is irrelevant. Like so teachers get fixated on I don't have enough time to cover. And it's like, you mean you don't have time to tell students what you know, and there's not a lot of the vocab, the words we do have meaning is there where is that learning? I go, it doesn't matter how long the lesson is, it really boils down to those two fundamental elements of a learning target or objective and how are you measuring, right? So you could do anything in a short amount of time or a long amount of time, but ultimately something had to happen and what is the measurement. I think, I think it's the obviously objectives and and learning targets aren't overly complicated, although some teachers still don't necessarily know how to write in being experienced. But I think the second part of that is how do you actually measure learning took place is really where I've just seen maybe it's not fully implemented in practice, or we don't actually do anything with that. We're not when we talk about data-driven instruction, it can be just that. So, how do you coach teachers, how do you coach schools to really like implement that that and and actually dive into it? Because it does take a lot of work, it does take a lot of time to do it with fidelity.

SPEAKER_00 11:44

Yeah, and you know what, I kind of try to show them, I want to go back to your time piece, you know, because I hear that all the time too, is oh, we don't have time. Well, here's the thing there's not much that I can say with certainty, but here are two things that I'm pretty certain about. Number one, it's not that we don't have time, it's how do we effectively use the time that we currently have? In the time, how do you, as a teacher, how do you use that time in the classroom with your students? That that you can control that. As administrators, how do you make the time to provide timely, actionable, practical feedback to your people on whatever the focus is? So, you know, but going back to your question about, you know, how do you make this palatable? Is, you know, what I love to do is I will have teachers or administrators map out, okay, you have a nine, let's use you use your example of a 90-minute block. Okay, walk me through your 90-minute block and think about the grade level, the content, walk me through it. I then get everything I know. I can then determine is it aligned to a standard? Are they using effective strategies? How will they measure learning? Are they shifting from teacher-centered to more student-centered approaches? Then after I map that out on a whiteboard, I then ask questions. And I, the key is leading people to their own realization of where they can grow. That is where I have found tremendous success as a coach. Because guess what? Nobody wants to be told what to do. You don't want to be told what to do, teachers don't want to be told what to do, administrators don't want to be told to do. That's when people automatically shut down. The key is how we lead people to understanding where they can grow their practice. You know, we think about leadership. Um, you know, leaders don't change people. I don't care what they say, what they think, leaders don't change people. Leaders create the conditions where people want to change. And as I map out lesson frames, if I ask the right questions, and I'll say, well, hey, I see that you have a learning target. How do your strategies align to that target? Or, okay, you have this learning target objective. How do you know whether or not the students met it from a formative process? So what'll happen then is teachers and administrators will leave with one to three specific things that they can do that are not more work, but is it the right work? It's how we frame change that's so important. Also, we got to be careful of the words that we use. You used a word that might be a trigger for some people, data-driven instruction. So I get that. And if somebody wants data driven, fine. But I also will shift it to okay, let's talk about data enhanced instruction. Also rigor. Oh my goodness, you say the word rigor, people just get okay. Well, let's just talk about level thinking, cognition, D-O-K. So when we we have to understand that what we might value is not how other people might see it. So we have to be careful of the words we use. We have to be careful of, hey, this is the way you must do it. And if we look at the way we frame our actions, in turn, that could really inspire people to want, want is the key word, to want to grow their practice.

SPEAKER_01 15:17

Gotcha. You said um, I guess you make the distinction between learning from AI and learning with AI, and you call AI a pedagogical, pedagogical partner, not a productive productivity hack. Break that down for us.

SPEAKER_00 15:33

Yeah, you know, there's a lot of stuff out there about AI. People are talking about brain rot, cheating, right? You know, m-dash this, m- that, fostering. I mean, come on, there's so many cues out there if people are using AI. And I think the key piece is when we look at how you frame that question, what I like to look at it is how can AI be leveraged as a thought partner? How does it amplify your original thinking? How does it help fill in the gaps when you get stumped? How can it kind of be that light bulb moment where it kind of gets you unstuck in your own thinking and allow you then to kind of take the steering wheel and drive the thought, the idea, the process forward. And, you know, AI, you know, I kind of look at it as two things. We can use it to just manage our time, and that's great. Emails, you know, images, whatever. Or we can use it to help us to lead more effectively. You know, I look at it this way. You know, AI can help save us time on the really low-level tasks that sap up precious minutes, in turn, providing us with that critical amount of time to really focus on the human relationships. You know, without trust, there's no relationship. Without relationships, no real learning or change occurs. Uh, we could also help it use it to uh crystallize or make our ideas have more clarity. You know, one of the ways that I'll use is I will write something up and then I'll say, hey, I'll go to Gemini and say, can you create a metaphorical image for this? Because the brain processes images a lot faster than text. So as I'm using it as a thought partner, it's helping to crystallize the ideas and thoughts because I no one's gonna go read through a lot of text, but that image piece, awesome. The other thing, too, is when we think about time, when I go in and coach, um, the building or district will get 2,000 to 5,000 words of feedback that day within 24 hours. And as I engage in coaching cycles with schools and districts, I might have anywhere from three to five of those reports. So then what I will do is I will then have AI synthesize all those reports in alignment to district school vision, mission, goals. And then what it helps it do is it helps to begin the process of creating quantifiable goals. Because I've already outlined the next steps in collaboration with the principal, with the superintendent. But that's saving so much time. And then, you know, if I prompt correctly, I can align it to the different evaluation systems that we see across the country. I can align it to different state standards or organizational standards. So as I'm using it, again, it's it's helping me give in, giving me greater insight onto where the blind spots are, but it's coming from my work. It's coming from my reports, it's coming from my original thoughts that I'm that I've been writing and blogging about since 2009. And you know, we can you know use AI to kind of generate items that we want it to, but but the key piece is how does it amplify, but also how does it open up new ways of authentic thinking? Because that's the key piece as humans, it's our authentic thoughts that we want to really amplify.

SPEAKER_01 19:28

This episode is brought to you by Supported Tutoring, where we don't just help students get better grades, we help them become critical thinkers. Whether it's mastering AP exams, maximizing college applications, or building lifelong learning habits, our expert tutors focused on critical thinking, confidence, and real growth. Head to supported tutoring.com to find the support your student deserves. So you've developed the seven pillars of digital leadership framework that schools worldwide now use. What are the what is the core philosophy underneath it? And what's the problem it's actually solving?

SPEAKER_00 20:06

Yeah, the core philosophy is, you know, when I was a principal, I kind of began to unearth these elements that, regardless of technology, are part of every culture, whether it's district, school, classroom culture. And the key piece when it comes to digital is how can it support and enhance the aspects of teaching, learning, and leadership. And, you know, right now, globally, there's a huge revolt against technology. And that's because there's been a lack of training. Again, it's it's not the technology's fault, it's a tool. And it's how we use the tool to support and enhance teaching, learning leadership that matters. So as we were looking at these, as the elements started to unearth when I was a principal, I'm like, all right, well, if we're asking really, really good questions, how do we involve the majority of our students in class? Well, here's where technology through student voice, if we have right questions, technology can be used to review prior learning, check for understanding, or as a form of closure at one component of the lesson. When we think about learning environment and our spaces, you know, we live in a digitally connected world. That's where I think that some of these arguments are missing the point. If we shelter students from digital experiences in school, what's going to happen when they go home? It's just a free-for-all. They're going to be on the devices. The issues are not going to change. But as schools, we can help them manage their time, think critically, learn how to vet resources, learn how when it's needed to shut the device off. But as we look at from a leadership perspective, communications, public relations, branding, opportunity. So the digital piece, you know, can help us communicate against across a variety of mediums. It can help us tell our story in ways that, again, if we don't tell our story, someone else will. And if we don't tell that story, we know it. Happens. It can help us really create this era of transparency to create a positive brand presence. It can also help us unearth opportunities. So what it comes down to is I like these two questions to kind of drive the pillars or just technology use in general. Number one, how are students using technology to learn in ways they couldn't without it? And number two, how does your use of technology as an educator represent a fundamental improvement over what you did in the past without it? If you can't answer those questions, don't use technology.

SPEAKER_01 22:35

So you have visited thousands of schools worldwide. What is the single biggest thing the education system is getting wrong right now?

SPEAKER_00 22:44

Well, I don't know if it's getting it wrong per se. It's we are so influenced as humans by experience. And experience kind of dictates, you know, we often teach the way we were taught and we lead the way we were led. And if we really look at school systems, they are pretty much, take the technology out, they are pretty much a carbon copy of what we've seen since the early 1900s. You know, one size fits all approach, preparing students for a world that no longer exists. So I think the key question that we need to ask ourselves is how does teaching, learning, and leadership prepare students for the present and the future? And I think if we look at that, it gives us a lot of opportunity to really pause and take a critical lens to our work. You know, I still see a lot of passive consumption over active learning, students listening, taking notes, watching a video. All right, that's a passive consumption act because there's no such thing as passive learning. Learning is learning. But how do we move students to really develop the core competencies that we want, to be critical thinkers, to be effective communicators, to actively engage, to self-regulate. So I think the key is it's not about right or wrong. Um, I don't like to look at those ends of the spectrum, but is how do we really honestly determine where we are to get to where we need and where our learners need us to be? Because the world is changed so fast. I use this example. You know, my son is a junior in college. He started off as a freshman as a computer science major. And computer science then, three years ago, hottest job market in the world. Now, now, not so much. Now he's still a computer science major, but the job market in such a short amount of time has been completely disrupted. How are schools preparing students for this?

SPEAKER_01 24:52

Do you think human schools are preparing students for this?

SPEAKER_00 24:56

Well I again I think in pockets, but when we look at how AI and just technology has really transformed the environment in which with knowledge is at our fingertips. We can access knowledge, but how do people take that to construct new knowledge to apply to and I think that's where we're missing the boat because when we go when students go through the curriculum, I don't know about you, Joe, but my own two children never came home and said, Mom, dad, we had an amazing day today exploring the curriculum. They came home and they talked about school when a teacher or administrator built a relationship, when they made learning meaningful, when they helped them overcome a challenge, when they helped them see what's possible. Again, we have to ask the question is how does teaching and learning today in most schools help students see what's possible? How do we engage them authentically? Because again, a lot of the challenges that we see, whether it's off-task behavior, cheating, boredom, it's again because students don't see the relevancy and the meaning in learning. We can fix that. We can. But going back to paper, pencil textbooks without relevancy, without meaning, without looking at some of the impediments of most curricula, not going to solve the problem, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_01 26:26

Right. So your new newest book, Personalized, argues that personalization is key, but most schools can't actually deliver it. Why not?

SPEAKER_00 26:36

Well, because first let's look at the definition that that my co-author and I created. You know, personalization is all students getting what they need when and where they need it to learn. Now, using that definition and knowing that there's not one right way to learn, we look at schools. And in many cases, all students doing the same thing at the same time, the same way. Or we give them a device and all put them on an adaptive learning tool. You could fill in the blank of all the major adaptive learning tools that are out there. No talking, no discourse. Those are examples of impersonal experiences. You know, learning naturally is a personal journey. And but do we actually personalize the process where we implement student voice? All students able to be participants to respond. Choice. Are students able to choose how to demonstrate understanding or choose the right tool for the right task? Path. You know, if none of us went, learning is not linear. Learning is like this. So, how do we understand about putting students on a path based on where they are to get them to where they need to be? Pace. If learning is the goal, students should be able to learn at their own pace within reason. And finally, place. Place can be in a classroom, place can be flexible seating, place, place can be virtual, place can be outside. So it's not about doing all those high agency strategies, voice, choice, path, pace, place at the same time. But it's understanding if, again, if students have to learn the same way, do the same exact thing consistently, we know that flies in the face of how all of us learn.

SPEAKER_01 28:23

I mean, isn't that the avenue that AI can integrate into education and truly create a personalized learning experience? Because every kid, there's all gaps, right? So we're we're teaching to the middle, what is the average? We're just, you said it best that we're still teaching the same way we did in the 1800s. Just this is the only way we have it. And really, every kid comes to the table with different abilities, different knowledge. How else are we going to be able to personalize that experience and close those gaps if we don't have some kind of technology or tools that help us?

SPEAKER_00 28:56

I I think it can play a role, but we have to tread lightly on how we implement it. Um, you know, again, you I love technology, but I'm not a fan of having students in front of it for you know hour, two hours at a time. Um, I don't think that is the solution. I think that we need to look at how it can be effectively implemented into sound pedagogical practice. You know, for example, and impersonalize. I talk about the role of data to group, regroup, target instruction, focus on tier one, two, and three. And I think we could implement, you know, integrate AI into uh a rotational model as a tier two strategy. We can implement it in must-do-may do choice boards, playlists as a tier three strategy. We could also set up students on respective paths, whether it is remediation or more extended learning outside of school. So I think there's ways that we can do it, but we want to tread lightly because the magic of learning is the human connection and the power of our teachers. But the power of our teachers rests in them understanding as well that, hey, we can grow our practice. How do we know our practices are effective? So and also, you know, AI is still such a new entity. You know, I don't know if we want to put our eggs too, you know, too much into that basket until we really look at our pedagogical practices that we're using right now and work on growing those first and foremost, and then find that natural connection to where AI can support enhance.

SPEAKER_01 30:38

Do you do you think we've rushed into giving everyone a one-on-one device? Because obviously, like with COVID, that accelerated. Every student has a device now. They have a laptop or a Google Chromebook or something. And so we've we've hit on the device to make them future ready or innovative, but we really haven't necessarily wholesaly adapted the practices to make it effective. And you like you said, they're sitting there in front of a screen, but the learning, the teaching, the learning needs to take place in a human-human connection. Yeah, you see our mistake.

SPEAKER_00 31:11

I mean I don't know about if I use the term rushed. You know, I I think it was a you know, sort of a reaction to the pandemic, and no one's at fault for that. However, where fault lies is, you know, I use this all the time, just handing students a device and expecting learning miracles to happen, it is just ridiculous. And that's kind of what we did. And the key piece is when you look at any type of strategy, professional learning has to be ongoing, job embedded. And in the case of many things, teachers and administrators are not getting that. We are notorious for you know one and done drive-by, you know, events where, yeah, let's get everyone excited. Joe, I do lots of keynotes. I can make people cry and laugh, but I'm not naive to think that, well, okay, great. I I come in, I do that, or anybody comes in and does that, then the realities of the job take hold. Right. So when it comes to devices, you know, my sort of thought process here is if you have them think about what can be done to really build capacity within your people, both teachers and administrators. You know, the research has been very clear, especially from Linda Darling Hammond out of Stanford, the Wallace Foundation, going back to the ongoing, job embedded feedback, looking at evidence. So, you know, I I think the key piece here is it's no one's at fault. But I learned, we learned very quickly when we went bring your own device. I did it because I saw it, I was excited, and I just said, We're bring your own device. And nothing changed. And my teachers revolted. And I then knew that, okay, I need to hit the pause button, and we did. We hit the pause button for a year, and then what did we do? We trained our teachers and administrators for a year before relaunching our bring your own device. We had clear criteria, we had shared norms, we had protocols where students will not be on their phones in the hallways. They they but we we made sure it really was about the pedagogical shifts that we wanted. And we made sure, hey, maybe students are just gonna use their technology for their exit ticket so we get that data. Maybe they're gonna use it for one checking for understanding. So I think the key pieces instead of throwing our hands up in the air and saying, yeah, this failed, yeah, is let's let's be honest and vulnerable about what we should have done, and let's start focusing on it now.

SPEAKER_01 33:49

What is the first thing you look for when you go in as a consultant to schools if they're on the right track or not? What's the first thing you assess? Evidence. What do you mean by that?

SPEAKER_00 33:58

Don't tell me what you're doing, show me. I want to see the qualitative examples of any practice. People are great. Like, Joe, you could sit here and tell me all the great things you've done or you're doing, and I'm gonna be very nice. I'm like, yeah, that's awesome. They're gonna say, hey, I want to share this with my other systems because nobody wants to do another thing, nobody wants to reinvent the wheel. Can you show me what that looks like? Can you show me a video? Can you show me a picture? That's the best feedback that I get from teachers and administrators. Because if you I actually worked with a district recently and we were aligning evidence to their uh profile of a graduate. And to get the ball started, I'm like, because I did not see any evidence to align with their five elements. So I've in the beginning, I'm like, all right, just let's let's go through this. Pick one of your elements. And there was one that was, you know, let's just say critical thinker. I went on my computer, bam, I brought up an image or a uh a video showing clear evidence of how a school system is supporting their students to be critical thinkers. Effective communicator. Okay, great. Well, that's pretty broad. So then bam, I showed a video of students who had created a game in Scratch to demonstrate uh chemistry uh concepts, and they could see them collaborating through the video. So I think that's what I'm looking for is if you could show me that evidence, great. That provides a starting point because I don't want to go and do rudimentary work if you're already at this level. But I will tell you more often than not, I'm not seeing that evidence. I'm not saying people don't have it, but we have a lot of opportunities to grow in terms of how we strategically curate that evidence across grade levels, across content areas, because that's what teachers and administrators want. They want, again, to see here is how we're doing it. Here's what it can look like.

SPEAKER_01 35:59

That's actually really well said. I think there's a lot of things we say we're doing, but we don't actually deliver on them. So then it becomes like we we're it's just all surface level, right? So okay, that um will bring me to our rapid fire part of this. And again, I will just preview this, but I always break the rules. You can explain if you want to, but I'm just gonna have some questions rapid fire at you. First thing that comes to mind, no explanation needed unless you want to. That sounds good. All right, cool. One book that changed how you think about education. Drive by Dan Pink. If you could go back and tell your old school principal self one thing, what would it be?

SPEAKER_00 36:37

Slow down. Do not make knee-jerk reactions consistently.

SPEAKER_01 36:42

Most overrated trend in educational technology right now. AI. Worst advice you hear school leaders giving.

SPEAKER_00 36:49

Worst advice. Oh my goodness. I'm gonna change that rapid fire question because I don't know if it's worth advice. You know, I what's bad advice schools are giving right now? I think it's not bad advice. I just think it's inconsistent feedback.

SPEAKER_01 37:05

Okay. Okay. One sentence you wish every parent of a high school schooler heard. Can you repeat that question? One sentence you wish every parent of a high school student heard. How many? We all learn differently. Embrace the wave. Embrace the wave. So, Eric, you have been a great guest. I appreciate that. I, you know, you are the founder and CEO of Aspire Change. You you left, like kind of like where we lose a lot of good teachers to leadership. Now it seems like we've lost a really good principal to being a consultant. Do you regret making that change and and and going into what you've done? Would you ever go back or kind of walk me through that that process and that journey?

SPEAKER_00 37:49

I don't I don't know if regret is the right word. As I mentioned earlier, uh I did not want to be a consultant. I was not looking to leave. I had tenure in my position as a principal. I was the head of the administrators bargaining unit. I had my superintendent's license, you know, I still do. That's what and I it's not that I regret, I miss the day-to-day interactions with students and my staff. I I desperately miss that. However, you know, I I know that, you know, the the reason I left is when I looked in the mirror, kind of that self-efficacy piece. I could honestly say that based on what I saw in the future, I was not going to be there 100% for my teachers and my students. And that was the you know, kind of deciding factor for me. However, um, one of the key pieces for me is to be in classrooms, be in schools, so that I can at least have more credibility when I'm in there asking questions and trying to lead people to where they feel a need to change. So being able to interact with students, educators on a consistent basis is something that has really helped me stay focused in the work that I do. And if that ever leaves, then I could see myself going back into either the building, classroom, or district to try to do my part.

SPEAKER_01 39:17

Amazing. All right. Well, Eric, it's been a pleasure. Where can our audience, if they're they're listening and they're interested in learning more, if we have teachers or administrators learning, where can they find more about you? Where's the best place to look?

SPEAKER_00 39:30

Well, I'm pretty much everywhere, but my website, uh ericksheninger.com, will take you to everything, whether it's Instagram, Pinterest, X, LinkedIn, Facebook, Mastodon, Blue Sky, my blog, esheninger.blogspot.com. You name it, I am there. I firmly believe that we need to control our digital footprint. So I routinely post in all those spaces.

SPEAKER_01 39:59

Awesome. And we'll put all those links in the show notes and uh in the YouTube descriptions as well. So, Eric, again, I want to thank you again for your time today, making time for coming on the podcast. Uh, anything you wish we asked or didn't just get a chance to discuss before we sign off.

SPEAKER_00 40:15

No, I I think it kind of led me to the main points that I wanted to say. And I think the key is we we have to, you know, there is a lot of great things happening in classrooms, schools, and districts. And just because things are going well and we're doing good work doesn't mean there isn't that opportunity to grow. I want you to chase growth, not perfection. And that's key because you don't need to be perfect. And in this disruptive world, I'll leave you with this question is how are you preparing students to replace conventional ideas with innovative solutions to authentic problems? That kind of really summarizes the points that I was trying to make in this disruptive world. We need to make sure our students are equipped not just with skills, but with the competencies to be successful.

SPEAKER_01 41:02

I love that. Thank you, Eric. Appreciate it. And we'll see you next time on the Supported Learning Podcast. Thanks for joining us on the Supported Learning Podcast. If today's conversation inspired you, challenged you, or sparked a new perspective, be sure to subscribe and share with a fellow change maker. We'll be back soon with more voices, more insight, and more ways to elevate the future of learning together. Until then, keep learning and keep pushing the conversation forward.